Nunez back in the lineup
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 18, 2012 
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As he announced on Twitter yesterday, center field prospect Mason Williams is up for the day and scheduled to play off the bench.
Brett Gardner CF
Eduardo Nunez SS
Robinson Cano 2B
Mark Teixeira 1B
Raul Ibanez DH
Bill Hall 3B
Justin Maxwell RF
Dewayne Wise LF
Gustavo Molina C
RHP Ivan Nova
“They offered Andy 12 million dollars and this was after they saw him throw”
honestly I’m not sure how wise it would have been to offer 12 million dollars to a 40 year old that hasn’t pitched since October of 2010 even if it is Andy Pettitte…..and they actually didn’t watch him throw until the other day…..months after they talked to him about the 10-12 million dollars according to Cashman.
Go Mason!
Should be a thrill for Mason Williams!
Blake,
Cashman, Rothschild, Girardi, Gene Michael all watched him throw. There was some serious baseball brains behind that 12 million dollar offer. They also have his medical records. This talk about not knowing what to expect from Andy Pettitte is just talk.
Blake,
Do you really believe the Yankees would make a blind offer of 12 million dollars to anybody without watching them throw first?
“Do you really believe the Yankees would make a blind offer of 12 million dollars to anybody without watching them throw first?”
from what Cashman said…..that’s exactly what they did….they talked about 10-12 million back in December before Andy even started working out…..then he started throwing Jan 1 and he didn’t actually throw in front of them until a week ago when they played Boston……by then the money was already spent.
Cashman, Rothschild, Girardi, and Stick watched him throw last week for the first time since 2010 according to what’s being reported and what Cashman said in his interview…..the 10-12 million dollar offer was made back in December.
Blake,
Could you maybe think of a reason why Cashman and the Yankees wouldn’t want to reveal the exact unfolding of their plans for Pettitte and the rotation? I think you could.
repost:
fwiw, rotographs (fangraphs rottisserie page) has pineda as the consensus #22 starting pitcher for fbb this year. right behind ian kennedy and ahead of josh johnson, adam wainwright, yu darvish, josh beckett, chris carpenter and a bunch of very solid pitchers. pretty impressive, though i myself will still rate him a bit lower…
“Could you maybe think of a reason why Cashman and the Yankees wouldn’t want to reveal the exact unfolding of their plans for Pettitte and the rotation? I think you could.”
not really…..I don’t think Andy would have cost himself 10 million dollars so my guess is it unfolded pretty much like they said it did……
any calculation of andy’s worth and salary has to consider that they can recoup alot of the salery through increased ticket and merchandise sales with him coming back.
“any calculation of andy’s worth and salary has to consider that they can recoup alot of the salery through increased ticket and merchandise sales with him coming back.”
true…and that’s why they agreed to give him 2.5 million bucks when the budget was already spent
Blake,
So you don’t think maybe Pettitte’s status and the Yankees true evaluation of him impacts other rotation spots, other pitchers, other roster decisions and other GM’s thinking and other free agent negotiations and other trade talks?
luis March 18th, 2012 at 1:08 pm
Hi JAP!,
“Piedrita” is a small rock, meaning that the ball hits it and gets deflected and has very unpredictable bounces…A very common occurrence in our baseball fields!!
“So you don’t think maybe Pettitte’s status and the Yankees true evaluation of him impacts other rotation spots, other pitchers, other roster decisions and other GM’s thinking and other free agent negotiations and other trade talks?”
I don’t think the Yankees have a true evaluation of him yet…..because he’s thrown 1 bullpen and we don’t know what he’s going to be yet…..I think if he’s the Andy Petitte of old then yes possibly it could change things in several different ways…..but for now it’s TBD.
And with 4 rotation spots set (CC, Pineda, Nova, Kuroda) is it really a stretch to depend on Andy Pettitte for the bottom spot in the rotation, especially when you have 5 AAA pitchers capable of making spot starts…and Freddy Garcia?
Cash stated that they were negotiating for Kuroda and Pineda back in Dec when Andy called.
If that offer was made and Andy took it, no doubt Kuroda comes off the table.
Andy comes off looking like a pig, esp if he’s unsure of what he wants to do.
The minor league offer was the way to go, Cash was prolly just doing a little PR on Andy’s behalf, not that he needs it, altho’ he has played hardball with the Yanks in the past.
I mean, I think you’re inflating the uncertainty and risk here.
We need Andy Pettitte to be a 5th starter.
And we should be extra cautious in this plan?
Why?
Bret,
I know that you’re getting at this means Phil Hughes is going to be traded…..and it could mean that….but we don’t know that yet…..again we have to see what Andy looks like….if the rest of the rotation stays healthy and effective….and exactly what Hughes would even bring in a trade before considering any of that…..also if Hughes throws the ball like he did pre-all star break 2010 are they really going to deal him? I doubt it…..basically we don’t know what’s going to happen right now…..all we know is they are deep and have lots of options and that’s a good thing in mid March.
I would love to hear what some of you would do if, in a perfect world, all 5 of our starters are lights out when Andy is ready?
::: What about O’Flaherty :::
MTU ~
Haven’t the Yanks reached their quota for M’s and ex-M’s acquired in one off-season yet?
Aardsma, Branyan, Ibanez, Pineda … I’m I missing any? But, if they really want another, I’m thinking Figgy (‘t would make Felix happy 
)
“I would love to hear what some of you would do if, in a perfect world, all 5 of our starters are lights out when Andy is ready?”
Is Hughes in the rotation?
Bret The Hitman March 18th, 2012 at 1:14 pm
I mean, I think you’re inflating the uncertainty and risk here.
We need Andy Pettitte to be a 5th starter.
And we should be extra cautious in this plan?
Why?
===============================
Bret,
Excuse for cutting in…..But Andy is almost 40 years old and hasn’t pitch in 17 months, that’s a long time, especially at that age…..We don’t know what he has left, we only know that he has the drive to pitch, will that be enough?, will his body hold up at that age?, those are pertinent and reasonable questions, caution is the name of the game in this instance.
Is Hughes in the rotation?
=================
Yes.
luis March 18th, 2012 at 1:08 pm
Hi JAP!,
“Piedrita” is a small rock, meaning that the ball hits it and gets deflected and has very unpredictable bounces…A very common occurrence in our baseball fields!!
///
LOL. Why are your fields rocky? Just the natural terrain?
I’m stoked to see Mason Williams get his 15 minutes tonight.
“I would love to hear what some of you would do if, in a perfect world, all 5 of our starters are lights out when Andy is ready?”
be thankful that all 5 starters are lights out?
Blake,
I think a lot of what happens with Phil and when depends on the what the opposing GM is offering.
And I don’t think it’s risky to depend on Andy Pettitte as the 5th starter, Garcia in the pen as insurance for that spot and 5 capable arms in AAA.
It’s not risky to listen to offers on Phil Hughes right now. It’s only risky to trade him for a lowball offer. They don’t have to do that because he has an option left and Pettitte needs about a month and Garcia can throw in the pen.
So if a GM makes a fair offer for Phil Hughes right now, one reason to hesitate on pulling the trigger would not be Andy Pettitte or that 5th spot.
Moore pitching for Tampa, has given up two homers in 1.1 innings.
How’d Moore look in the first. Two homeruns? FB’s up?
J. Alfred Prufrock March 18th, 2012 at 1:20 pm
luis March 18th, 2012 at 1:08 pm
Hi JAP!,
“Piedrita” is a small rock, meaning that the ball hits it and gets deflected and has very unpredictable bounces…A very common occurrence in our baseball fields!!
///
LOL. Why are your fields rocky? Just the natural terrain?
I’m stoked to see Mason Williams get his 15 minutes tonight.
===================================
LOL, natural terrain is rocky plus very little on field maintenance, that’s why we produce such many great infielders!
Yup, is the game televised? i hope i get a look on this kid, apparently he has added a lot of muscle.
“So if a GM makes a fair offer for Phil Hughes right now, one reason to hesitate on pulling the trigger would not be Andy Pettitte or that 5th spot.”
no….but we don’t know that there is such an offer for Hughes out there…..we can’t assume there is…..so right now…..Hughes is the 5th starter…..Garcia is in the pen most likely (or traded)…..and Andy is getting ready to pitch and we’ll see where it goes…..I’m sure Cashman is going to field offers on a lot of guys…..I’d listen on Pineda and Nova as well for the right offer…..without knowing what those offers are or if they even exist it’s tough to speculate.
If all three are good when Pettitte comes back and pitching well, Garcia is gone.
yankeefem,
Announcers say both homers off 94 mph fastballs up.
Mick,
If all Yankee starting pitchers are lights out with CC, Kuroda, Pineda, Nova and Hughes when Pettitte is ready, healthy and effective then I would expect Cashman to do his best to generate a trade market for either Nova or Hughes in which he can get as much fair value as possible. Now, we can speculate that he can’t get fair value for either of those guys, but you never know as I’ve seen circumstances could be in the Yankees favor come May.
“If all three are good when Pettitte comes back and pitching well, Garcia is gone.”
I think that’s probably true….the real question is where is Hughes if everyone is healthy and performing including Andy?
be thankful that all 5 starters are lights out?
===========================
i’d like to sit on the LF fence near the bullpen with you but , in this perfect world, a pitcher will have to go
CompassRosy March 18th, 2012 at 1:17 pm
::: What about O’Flaherty :::
MTU ~
Haven’t the Yanks reached their quota for M’s and ex-M’s acquired in one off-season yet? Aardsma, Branyan, Ibanez, Pineda … I’m I missing any? But, if they really want another, I’m thinking Figgy (‘t would make Felix happy )
///
No. Thanks…:???:
I see Noesi’s going for you today, and I can watch it on MLB Network. Assume the Son will be in there today?
the pS3 MLB.TV app is pretty awesome….thanks JF!
Thanks, Tom.
“i’d like to sit on the LF fence near the bullpen with you but , in this perfect world, a pitcher will have to go”
probably so…..but there are worse problems to have.
Blake,
My point is that you can’t state that the reason to hold Hughes is because of any uncertainty surrounding Andy Pettitte pitching as the 5th starter. That is the bottom of the rotation we’re talking about here. That spot can be filled by 6 other guys (Freddy Garcia + the 1-5 AAA pitchers).
I think that’s the angle you’re taking with Andy Pettitte. You’re manufacturing (whether consciously or subconsciously) caution when Pettitte’s timetable is really not an issue when we have 4 rotation spots filled with sold arms and 6 other guys for the final spot.
The only holdup to trading Hughes is finding the right offer. That is the only holdup. Not Andy Pettitte. So the question should not be, “When will Pettitte be ready and how effective will he be?”. The question is, “What are GM’s offering for Phil Hughes?”
I think we have about a month to field offers and find out.
I’m curious about what they’re offering and I feel strongly that their potential offers should be open to discussion and speculation.
blake March 18th, 2012 at 1:28 pm
“If all three are good when Pettitte comes back and pitching well, Garcia is gone.”
I think that’s probably true….the real question is where is Hughes if everyone is healthy and performing including Andy?
========================================
That is the question….IMO if Andy is as good as always, Hughes is traded….That’s why i have mixed feelings about Pettite coming back….
Crawdaddy,
I agree…..if everyone is healthy and pitching well (which the chances of that aren’t great most likely) then I also think Cashman will probably try and create the most value he can for either Hughes or Nova and try and acquire a bat with them……
Longo just hit it out off Laptop.
Pineda to the minors to pare off a few pounds if he’s still as heavy as he supposedly is now.
all things being equal between nova and phil, i say phil goes for financial reasons only.
unless andy being the kuroda replacement if any team would take on the salary
“My point is that you can’t state that the reason to hold Hughes is because of any uncertainty surrounding Andy Pettitte pitching as the 5th starter”
yea I can…..it’s all related….his trade value….how Andy looks etc…..if someone wanted to offer a really good outfielder for Hughes right now then sure I’d consider it…..but without knowing the status of Andy and if such an offer is a possibility then I’m going to plan on Hughes being the 5th starter for now. I think it’s possible that Andy can come back and be good….but that’s no certainty IMO.
Longoria just hit one a mile off Buttholtz
LOL, natural terrain is rocky plus very little on field maintenance, that’s why we produce such many great infielders!
Yup, is the game televised? i hope i get a look on this kid, apparently he has added a lot of muscle.
///
Necessity really is the mother of invention! Yeah our game is on, either YES or MLB or both? It’s at 7 ET. Also, our boy should be in the Mariners lineup today, I would guess. That’s listed on MLB TV at 4 p.m. ET.
Kuroda has a full no trade clause.
yankeefeminista March 18th, 2012 at 1:32 pm
Longo just hit it out off Laptop.
///
saw it. LOL
GB7,
I expect Pineda has lost quite a bit of weight already and will most likely be at his desire weight by May.
Andy would fit nicely into the 3 spot. Lefty, righty, lefty, righty, Nova/Hughes?…
If Phil gets out of the gates like he did in 2010, I think the Yanks should at least listen to offers. They can trade him in June and he will have trade value with 1.5 seasons left until free agency. If he is lights out his year and next year, the Yanks may not be able to afford him in 2014 if they want to keep Cano and Granderson (each more important than any individual pitcher, IMO, in this down offensive era.)
Another factor — Hughes has faded badly in the second half in the past. Trade him when he has he most value.
NYY isn’t going to keep a Garcia if everyone’s going well and unload a good young pitcher with a future. He’s not making any money now and won’t make a lot next year. Pineda’s not going anywhere except AAA if the weight doesn’t come down….regardless of who he was traded for and they aren’t trading Nova. NYYs couldn’t get enough in return for it to be worth their while.
If say the Royals called up and said we’ll give you Gordon for Hughes straight up…..now with Andy in the fold I’d consider that…..equal service time and Gordon would really help assuming he’s the same guy he was last year…..but that’s total speculation and I have no idea that anything like that is possible…..so right now I’m going to be happy about the way Hughes is pitching and we will see what happens.
Crawdaddy March 18th, 2012 at 1:36 pm
GB7,
I expect Pineda has lost quite a bit of weight already and will most likely be at his desire weight by May.
————————————————————————————————————————
Hopefully so. He should be fine, but, at this time, hughes is the best starter in camp.
Blake,
I don’t think so. Even if Pettitte flops, the Yankees have 6 guys who can be the 5th starter.
Pettitte’s status does not impact Hughes future. The only holdup is the quality of the offers and the progress of trade talks involving Hughes.
So the question that should be on the table right now is, which team(s) need Phil Hughes and what could they offer that we need?
“Hopefully so. He should be fine, but, at this time, hughes is the best starter in camp.”
However, will he be the best starter come May 1st?
So the question that should be on the table right now is, which team(s) need Phil Hughes and what could they offer that we need?
==================
And what if the offer comes in the next 2 weeks?
Esp with Hughes lights out, for now.
We should have a better handle on Andy by then.
That could be Hughes’ highest value.
“So the question that should be on the table right now is, which team(s) need Phil Hughes and what could they offer that we need?”
offense….young offense….if you’re not getting back an impact position player then I’d rather just keep Hughes in the 5th spot and hope he pitches like a 2 or 3…… I’m not trading Hughes unless I’m either getting an established impact position player or a young player with upside and lots of control left.
By the way, it looks like Mason Williams will open up with Tampa in the FSL. Looks like Gary Sanchez might be there too.
Hughes’ career numbers show that he is actually better in the second half than first half.
I have more faith in hughes rebounding and getting better than I do in Gordon continuing. Not only that, but, Gordon will be in Swisher territory as far as salary goes by next year.
“By the way, it looks like Mason Williams will open up with Tampa in the FSL. Looks like Gary Sanchez might be there too.”
link?
“offense….young offense….if you’re not getting back an impact position player then I’d rather just keep Hughes in the 5th spot and hope he pitches like a 2 or 3…… I’m not trading Hughes unless I’m either getting an established impact position player or a young player with upside and lots of control left.”
Cashman seems to be a pretty tough negotiator, it wouldn’t shock me if he demotes somebody with options left instead of dealing them in a trade for lesser value than he thinks he should get for somebody like Nova or Hughes.
Agreed, total speculation, but Gordon would be a fair swap. He would also represent an upgrade over Gardner offensively, and while he doesn’t cover as much ground as Gardner, he is a good defender.
I know the Yankees scored the second most runs in baseball last year, but I still see offense as a bigger need for this club.
“Gordon will be in Swisher territory as far as salary goes by next year.”
still cost controlled for 2 more years…..he’ll be cheaper than Swisher will be over the next 2 seasons and he had a .900 OPS against righties last year and is a really good outfielder.
RE: Mason Sanchez; Both playing in Tampa have been discussed. Is there anything definitive yet on Mason, Craw?
“link?”
Paid site dude, but they’re playing exhibition games against other teams with the Tampa squad.
“Cashman seems to be a pretty tough negotiator, it wouldn’t shock me if he demotes somebody with options left instead of dealing them in a trade for lesser value than he thinks he should get for somebody like Nova or Hughes.”
yea I agree…..
If you trade an effective Hughes or Nova now, you may find you need them next year; same with Pineda.
I would be reticent to trade any young pitcher now unless they are overwhelmed with an off of an offensive player with significant upside under 27.
mick March 18th, 2012 at 1:15 pm
I would love to hear what some of you would do if, in a perfect world, all 5 of our starters are lights out when Andy is ready?
———————————
my solution is pretty simple:
-CC gets all of his starts on regular rest (33 total)
-Kuroda most likely get all of his starts on regular rest (33 total), he could skip a few in the summer to give one of the other guys an extra start
-Pineda, Nova, and Hughes all skip one turn out of 4 to slot in Andy, that gives each of them 24 starts from the beginning of the season and more like 25-27 since Andy won’t be in the rotation until May.
Andy has a recent history of pitching much better on 5 days rest than 4-in 2010 it was under 3 on 5 and 6 days rest and 4.01 on 4 days rest so the extra days will help him. Both Pineda and Hughes had some issues in the 2nd half of their last full seasons, skipping a few starts (they can throw a simulated game to stay in rotation) isn’t going to be an issue either.
The issue with the 6 man rotation is that CC (and most likely Kuroda) need to be on a regular rotation going either every 5 or 6 days (depending on the schedule) to be consistent, the others can benefit from some extra rest in Andy’s case and being skipped every 4th turn to throw a simulated game (or pitch in long relief if another starter gets knocked out early) would be a plus, not a minus.
That is how I would solve it, at least for 2012, it’s up to the Yankees to make the decision.
So basically this could come down to a pitchout between Nova and Hughes for the 5th spot with the loser going to AAA?
Also, Mason is looking really good this spring.
if they send Mason to Tampa then it would suggest to me that they think he could possibly be ready by 2014 and that they may want that option as an alternative to Granderson……I don’t know why else you’d skip him a level at his age….
Hughes is worth more to us than in a trade, in which we likely won’t get enough back. Plus I’m not giving up on him.
That is how I would solve it, at least for 2012, it’s up to the Yankees to make the decision.
=========================
They had that option last year and din’t use it, why now?
“I would be reticent to trade any young pitcher now unless they are overwhelmed with an off of an offensive player with significant upside under 27.”
Which is why I would demote one with options first, if I can’t get the value I want for them.
I didn’t read your post when I hit submit, Craw.
yankeefeminista March 18th, 2012 at 1:46 pm
Hughes is worth more to us than in a trade, in which we likely won’t get enough back. Plus I’m not giving up on him.
=====================================
Spot on……But remember my Oscar Wilde remark?
Possible, Blake. Mason has always been expected to be a fast mover. He could have started in Charleston in 2011, but they wanted him to work on plate discipline etc. He has bulked up and I don’t see why he won’t move fast. He could be a beast in the FSL this year especially with the added strength.
I don’t look at Pineda and think “overweight”. I don’t know what you guys are looking at…
the above should say Pineda, Nova, Hughes and Andy skip one out of 3 starts, the math still comes out the same as to the total number of starts made during the season.
Basically, you have one of them available for long relief during each turn through the rotation and throwing a simulated game if they are not needed.
The other advantage is that it keeps the bullpen a lot fresher if you have a starter come in early and give you 4 or 5 innings.
Of course, if someone gets hurt, the regular 5 man rotation is still there.
“if they send Mason to Tampa then it would suggest to me that they think he could possibly be ready by 2014 and that they may want that option as an alternative to Granderson……I don’t know why else you’d skip him a level at his age….”
A couple of things come into play, Mason is a fast tracker so he is producing then you keep challenging him. Secondly, Heathcott is still rehabbing and won’t be back until May.
“Hughes is worth more to us than in a trade, in which we likely won’t get enough back. Plus I’m not giving up on him.”
probably so…..just depends on what the offer is…this new payroll mandate will change how they operate though I think….they will likely have to turn value in one area into value in another at times to keep the club balances and below the cap
Moore struggling with his command today….
“I didn’t read your post when I hit submit, Craw.”
Okay, do you agree with me? I think Cashman will do that first too.
Hell, just trade off everyone in the organization under 26 years old and load up the big team with Fas. They have a chance to get the rotation down to very good pitchers making less than $35 mil total and $25 mil of that to one very good pitcher. Got likely to be back next season, Pettitte may may return. They are not putting 2 rookies into the rotation at the same time next year. It didn’t work the last time.
:::: I see Noesi’s going for you today, and I can watch it on MLB Network. Assume the Son will be in there today? ::::
J. AP ~
I was looking forward to watching as well. Unfortunately, according to my weather app, it’s currently pouring rain in Peoria with no let up in sight
Oh, and Jesus is listed on the bench today…
http://twitpic.com/8y43r8
Rich, Craw,
+1. I am against trading either Hughes or Nova. It would be premature and lacking in foresight.
“Hughes is worth more to us than in a trade, in which we likely won’t get enough back. Plus I’m not giving up on him.”
Me too, yf.
Look, in a package for a young impact bat, especially one who can play 3B/SS as well as the OF (no, I have no one in mind and realize it’s unlikely), I would trade any pitcher on the staff.
what I mean is…..that at times they may not be able to hold on to assets they can’t keep long term anymore if they can be moved to acquire something else they need more…..that didn’t matter in the past when they could just buy whatever they needed…..now though they will have to be more efficient
Rosy, why is he always on the bench when games are televised? #sofrustrating
Not looking up numbers on Hughes right now, but he did fade in the second half of 2010, the only year he stuck in the MLB rotation for the entire year.
Young impact bats don’t move very often if they are also good at defense, so I don’t see it happening.
“+1. I am against trading either Hughes or Nova. It would be premature and lacking in foresight.”
I think most of us are in agreement that unless it’s an impact bat, I’m not trading anyone except maybe Garcia.
“Not looking up numbers on Hughes right now, but he did fade in the second half of 2010, the only year he stuck in the MLB rotation for the entire year.”
People say the same thing about Pineda’s 2011. Both SSS.
blake March 18th, 2012 at 1:44 pm
“Gordon will be in Swisher territory as far as salary goes by next year.”
still cost controlled for 2 more years…..he’ll be cheaper than Swisher will be over the next 2 seasons and he had a .900 OPS against righties last year and is a really good
————————————————————————————————————————-
he’s making nearly $5 mil now. you figure it out what a starting outfielder gets in arbitration.
now that cashman has a surplus of pitching he should call up Zduriencik and offer up pineda and campos for montero straight up with a little rogaine thrown in to help jack out.
Zduriencik gets to keep noesi and we’ll call it even and pretend it never happened.
“I am against trading either Hughes or Nova. It would be premature and lacking in foresight.”
I’m against it in a vacuum and if they were still operating like they used to…..but the reality is that they have a lot of pitching depth now and they are aging in the lineup….and seem bound and determined to be below 189 by 2014……so basically they can’t afford to keep excess in one area and neglect another and operate as effieciently as they will need to…
That doesn’t mean you just trade away guys for the heck of it…..but to me it means you keep your ears open for deals that make sense based on what your needs are.
“he’s making nearly $5 mil now. you figure it out what a starting outfielder gets in arbitration.”
I’m figuring that he’ll make less that Swisher will with his new contract.
this new payroll mandate will change how they operate though I think…
———————
I’m sure you saw the tweet from Mark Craig that they have to be under the payroll in back to back yrs to get a rebate. This is how it starts. First it will be two yrs and then three
Moving Garcia to a contender will net them as much as Hughes or Nova will this year. They get nothing when he walks at the end of the year.
“That doesn’t mean you just trade away guys for the heck of it…..but to me it means you keep your ears open for deals that make sense based on what your needs are.”
Yup, trade opportunities open up as circumstances changes for ballclubs.
“This is how it starts. First it will be two yrs and then three”
That’s possible, and Weiner saying the Yankees will spend like crazy after that may be just a guy who got hosed in a deal trying to cover his butt.
mick March 18th, 2012 at 1:47 pm
That is how I would solve it, at least for 2012, it’s up to the Yankees to make the decision.
=========================
They had that option last year and din’t use it, why now?
————————-
you would have to ask the Yankees but they really didn’t have that much time in 2011 to work through everything, it was all done on the fly and start by start.
I’ve also read that CC had some lingering knee issues in the 2nd half last year (I believe Cashman said that) so maybe they were protecting CC by giving him extra rest.
All of this is speculation, I was just providing my solution for 2012 given that in 2013 it is unlikely that Kuroda or Andy will be around so there will be rotation spots for lots of younger arms if that is the route they choose.
“Moving Garcia to a contender will net them as much as Hughes or Nova will this year. They get nothing when he walks at the end of the year.”
I don’t agree with that, as an effective pitching Hughes and Nova will bring more than Garcia in a trade.
Of course, Nova and Hughes bring more back, but that doesn’t change the calculus in terms of what you need back, or that unlike Garcia, they may need Hughes and Nova in the rotation next year.
blake March 18th, 2012 at 1:57 pm
“he’s making nearly $5 mil now. you figure it out what a starting outfielder gets in arbitration.”
I’m figuring that he’ll make less that Swisher will with his new contract.
————————————————————————————————————————-
he’ll be at $10 mil next year. almost guaranteed unless he becomes the 2010 Gordon.
blake March 18th, 2012 at 1:41 pm
“So the question that should be on the table right now is, which team(s) need Phil Hughes and what could they offer that we need?”
offense….young offense….if you’re not getting back an impact position player then I’d rather just keep Hughes in the 5th spot and hope he pitches like a 2 or 3…… I’m not trading Hughes unless I’m either getting an established impact position player or a young player with upside and lots of control left.
***********
I don’t disagree. That’s probably the stance the Yankees have adopted as well.
But Andy Pettitte’s status is not related to their stance. It’s more about what they think Phil Hughes is worth.
“Of course, Nova and Hughes bring more back, but that doesn’t change the calculus in terms of what you need back, or that unlike Garcia, they may need Hughes and Nova in the rotation next year.”
You talking to me?
No, just a general point, Craw.
Rich in NJ March 18th, 2012 at 1:54 pm
“Not looking up numbers on Hughes right now, but he did fade in the second half of 2010, the only year he stuck in the MLB rotation for the entire year.”
People say the same thing about Pineda’s 2011. Both SSS.
_____________
Hughes had a 70 innings jump in 2010, and still finished strong in September 2010. Not too worried about the second half.
I was looking forward to watching as well. Unfortunately, according to my weather app, it’s currently pouring rain in Peoria with no let up in sight
Oh, and Jesus is listed on the bench today…
http://twitpic.com/8y43r8
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suck! Thanks, Rosy.
I was just providing my solution for 2012 given that in 2013 it is unlikely that Kuroda or Andy will be around
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Maybe Kuroda will be gone next year. I doubt they are thinking of Andy as a 1 year deal and neither is he. Why go thru all this trouble for just 1 year?
Joel Sherman had an interesting take on the Pettitte signing. That it was an unexpected move, brought some excitement to this year’s camp.
No doubt the front office is now better run, more analytical and doesn’t fritter away money (except Soriano– thanks Levine). But George had a knack for he entertainment value of he game. I’m sure he would have brought in Johnny Damon over Ibanez, for example. (though he probably pushed for Prince or Pujols first, logic be damned).
Bringing back Andy is a good baseball move. But it also may have some value in generating fan excitement. I haven’t seen any figures on ticket sales this year, but it seems like the team is advertising ticket packages more heavily this year. Bringing Pettitte back will likely drive some single-game ticket sales.
“No, just a general point, Craw.”
Okay because I thought you and I agreed to what parameters have to be met before either of those two to be traded.
Malkin goal. lol.
Crawdaddy March 18th, 2012 at 1:44 pm
Cashman seems to be a pretty tough negotiator, it wouldn’t shock me if he demotes somebody with options left instead of dealing them in a trade for lesser value than he thinks he should get for somebody like Nova or Hughes.
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No disagreement. But I think teams pitching needs will dictate their offers and I think Cashman will find the right match.
On the good side, NYY won’t have a gun suck in their ear this year at the break looking for pitching. In a 3 month period from May to July, they could get Pettitte, Chamberlain and aardsma for less than $5 mil total.
Many people dropped season tickets for multiple reasons including that the cheap secondary market makes having overpriced seasons unnecessary, as well as seniority meaning virtually nothing to the Yankees with newbies getting better seats than long time plan holders. Read the NYY threads, season ticket holders are furious.
yankeefeminista says:
March 18, 2012 at 1:53 pm
:::: Rosy, why is he always on the bench when games are televised? #sofrustrating :::::
YF ~
)
Frustrating indeed.
We may just have to wait till opening day in Tokyo (oh, BTW, I was able to get the day off that day, so I can be here watching and then take a nap
Anyhoo… with the rain in Peoria right now, looks like I’ll be cleaning out my closet this afternoon (long overdue chore) instead of lounging on the couch watching baseball
“No disagreement. But I think teams pitching needs will dictate their offers and I think Cashman will find the right match.”
The additional playoff teams opens up that possibility even moreso. I expect the midseason trade market to be more robust for those trading from excess, whether it’s hitting or pitching.
randy l. March 18th, 2012 at 1:56 pm
now that cashman has a surplus of pitching he should call up Zduriencik and offer up pineda and campos for montero straight up with a little rogaine thrown in to help jack out.
Zduriencik gets to keep noesi and we’ll call it even and pretend it never happened.
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O! This!
mick March 18th, 2012 at 2:03 pm
I was just providing my solution for 2012 given that in 2013 it is unlikely that Kuroda or Andy will be around
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Maybe Kuroda will be gone next year. I doubt they are thinking of Andy as a 1 year deal and neither is he. Why go thru all this trouble for just 1 year?
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Andy is pretty much my favorite Yankee so I want him to pitch for as long as he can without losing effectiveness but it’s pretty obvious (from him taking a non-guaranteed contract without incentives) he knows he can still pitch.
If he can still pitch effectively for 3 more years it is all to the Yankees gain to have that, then they can package some young pitching in the offseason to get an impact player but I think the best solution for 2012 is to keep as many of the young arms around as possible.
“he’ll be at $10 mil next year. almost guaranteed unless he becomes the 2010 Gordon.”
so how much do you think Swisher will make next year? and for how many years? A trade for Gordon now would mean you have both he and Swisher for 2012 and you’d have a RF option for 2013 also without committing long term and big money to Swisher.
We do, Craw. I really don’t want to trade either right now because of one year of Pettitte.
Agree about the parameters. Don’t think we will get enough for Hughes. I realize he will be a FA in 2014. We’ll see what happens though.
YF ~
Frustrating indeed.
We may just have to wait till opening day in Tokyo (oh, BTW, I was able to get the day off that day, so I can be here watching and then take a nap )
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Count me in, too, ladies
Not the best day for Matt Moore….looked like a rookie today.
Should read: *However, don’t think…
GreenBeret7 March 18th, 2012 at 2:06 pm
On the good side, NYY won’t have a gun suck in their ear
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Please proofread your work young man. F
Luis, while Wilde was a visionary, in this case, I hope he is not…
“We do, Craw. I really don’t want to trade either right now because of one year of Pettitte.”
I’m with you! Luckily, Cashman overvalues pitching.;)
“Not the best day for Matt Moore….looked like a rookie today.”
It happens to them all, he might be going through his dead arm period.
blake, unfortunately, I missed watching Moore except for a few glimpses because I am watching a critical hockey match. Any observations?
Rich in NJ March 18th, 2012 at 1:59 pm
“This is how it starts. First it will be two yrs and then three”
That’s possible, and Weiner saying the Yankees will spend like crazy after that may be just a guy who got hosed in a deal trying to cover his butt.
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Exactly. I’m still trying to fugure out how this deal benefits the players.
blake March 18th, 2012 at 2:09 pm
“he’ll be at $10 mil next year. almost guaranteed unless he becomes the 2010 Gordon.”
so how much do you think Swisher will make next year? and for how many years? A trade for Gordon now would mean you have both he and Swisher for 2012 and you’d have a RF option for 2013 also without committing long term and big money to Swisher.
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It has nothing to do with Swisher other than positions and salaries. You were talking about trading Hughes for Gordon. Hughes won’t be at $10 mil next year….Gordon will.
“It happens to them all, he might be going through his dead arm period.”
they didn’t have a gun on but his stuff looked good….just no command today….it’s going to happen and those expecting him to be Cliff Lee right out of the shoot are going to be disappointed…..he’s really talented though so I expect him to be really good but to have some struggle days as most rooks do.
“Hughes won’t be at $10 mil next year….Gordon will.”
yes….but Hughes can’t play RF…..which they’ll need next year
Rosy-san, we have a date with Tokyo!
Crawdaddy March 18th, 2012 at 2:08 pm
“No disagreement. But I think teams pitching needs will dictate their offers and I think Cashman will find the right match.”
The additional playoff teams opens up that possibility even moreso. I expect the midseason trade market to be more robust for those trading from excess, whether it’s hitting or pitching.
**********
That’s really a pertinent point – the extra wild card teams. Pitching is really at a premium right now and the Yankees with their depth can really afford to deal from a surplus without absorbing a huge blow. They could easily deal Hughes and not feel it because of their depth and other factors like upcoming free agent pitchers. But Cashman being the tough negotiator, he’s not going to give away Phil Hughes, especially if Hughes pitches well. But considering the pitching scarcity in the market, I think someone will compel Cashman to deal Hughes and I don’t see Hughes making it to the trade deadline.
“Exactly. I’m still trying to fugure out how this deal benefits the players.”
It only benefits the players if the teams nowhere near the threshold, spend more money on their major league talent because they’re restricted to do so with amateur talent.
YF,
just no command from what I saw….behind a lot of counts….lot of balls down the middle
Pruf-san too, and JF-san. Anyone else?
“they didn’t have a gun on but his stuff looked good….just no command today….it’s going to happen and those expecting him to be Cliff Lee right out of the shoot are going to be disappointed…..he’s really talented though so I expect him to be really good but to have some struggle days as most rooks do.”
Dead arm doesn’t just affect your velocity, but command too as the arm just doesn’t act right or your arm slot is off due to fatigue.
listening to maddon chat on air during the rays/red sox game.
the guys a very smart guy.
i wouldn’t mind seeing him make the move to yankee manager at some point.
“Dead arm doesn’t just affect your velocity, but command too as the arm just doesn’t act right or your arm slot is off due to fatigue.”
yea I know….just saying….maybe just a bad day.
Luis not so san too!!
Regardless of the reason season ticket sales, he Yanks are going to have a challenge ahead as they try to get the payroll under 189 mimmion. Average fans don’t root for the team reducing payroll and improve ownership’s profit.
So the Yanks clearly will have a challenge managing fans expectations on payroll over the next two to three years. Bringing back a fan favorite like Pettitte helps.
Good. Gordon can’t pitch, either. Don’t count Swisher out on being in pinstripes in 2013. If that rotation is at that $31-$35 mil level, and nothing better is on the market, Swisher will be back.
Yankeefem,
What time is that Tokyo game on? May join you.
In NYC, Average fans root for winning teams. If the Yankees remain a WS contending team and are making noise in the playoffs, what the Yankees spend in 2014 or 2015 won’t even matter to the fanbase.
“Good. Gordon can’t pitch, either.”
no but that’s the point…..they have a lot of guys that can pitch. The issue is how Swisher fits into the 2014 budget….and I’m not sure he will
I don’t see how Swisher or Martin fit into the budget in 2014.
If the Yankees are going to do this new budget thing and do it right they are going to have to sometimes trade value from areas of strength to add to areas of weakness…..and it’s probably going to involve trading some good pitchers at some point.
The problem with Swisher is just not fitting the budget, but his age in 2014 and beyond. Even Gordon will be 30 years old in 2014.
Craw, for that reason, I think he Yanks will be willing to take on payroll for a bat this trading deadline (as long as the acquired player doesn’t ruin the budget for 2014.
We’ll see what Ibanez brings, but I don’t think he’ll have much rope. They will replace him this summer if he is not producing.
“Average fans don’t root for the team reducing payroll and improve ownership’s profit.”
I doubt average fans know what the Yankees payroll is period.
“On the good side, NYY won’t have a gun suck in their ear”
i put a collection jar on my counter here in cape cod to help buy spell check for him.
i put some of gb7′s best misspellings on the jar.
ironically the most money thrown in was from kindergarten kids laughing like hyenas .
rumor has it gb7 blew spell check software to smithereens with his blunderbuss.
“If the Yankees are going to do this new budget thing and do it right they are going to have to sometimes trade value from areas of strength to add to areas of weakness…..and it’s probably going to involve trading some good pitchers at some point.”
No question because they have ML pitching talent throughout their minor league system with seven of them being at SWB and Trenton this year.
Gordon will be 30 and making Swisher money in 2014.
Yokoso, Luis-san!
wow! mike pelfrey’s decline continues, collins has to come take him out in the third inning after giving up 7 runs on 8 hits against the toothless houston astros. he was considered the best pitcher in his draft, bp had him as the #20 prospect in baseball and his performance has been consistently and continuously moving from bad to worse, to deplorable. lucky for him he’d have to drop to ollie perez-type uselessness before the mets could even think of taking him out of the rotation.
Bret,
I recall a few weeks ago you remarking the Yankees must have found the trade market for Hughes dry, because you were expecting him to be moved after the Pineda/Kuroda acquisitions.
What do you think has changed? Pettitte affects the Yankees depth, it does not affect the trade market for the same pitcher?
YF ~
Tom ~
First pitch on Opening Day in Tokyo is at 6am ET, 3am PT
OK. Guess I’d better get to a workout and tha closet chore since it looks like no baseball today…
Tom-san, I believe 5:30
blake March 18th, 2012 at 2:24 pm
If the Yankees are going to do this new budget thing and do it right they are going to have to sometimes trade value from areas of strength to add to areas of weakness…..and it’s probably going to involve trading some good pitchers at some point.
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According to most people on here, Hughes has no value in a trade and almost worthless. How are you going to get a superstar like Gordon, Headley or Dejesus? That’s it. You’re too busy talking in circles and repeating yourself. I’m finished with this. Trade who you want and look at stupid as Bret The Clown.
“Gordon will be 30 and making Swisher money in 2014.”
That’s fine….he’d be a Yankee at ages 28 and 29 making arbitration money. That’s just a hypothetical name….but he’d buy they one year of having both he and Swisher and he’d give them an extra year to find a long term solution that was cheaper.
I don’t know that Moore has a dead arm; in his first start it was more that he was overthrowing and just wasn’t in a rhythm yet.
yankeefeminista March 18th, 2012 at 2:27 pm
Yokoso, Luis-san!
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Arigato!!
“I don’t know that Moore has a dead arm; in his first start it was more that he was overthrowing and just wasn’t in a rhythm yet.”
We’re just talking as it could be a number of things.
“According to most people on here, Hughes has no value in a trade and almost worthless.”
I’m not one of those people GB so either read the entire conversations and comment accurately on what I say or don’t comment on what I say at all.
randy l. March 18th, 2012 at 2:26 pm
“On the good side, NYY won’t have a gun suck in their ear”
i put a collection jar on my counter here in cape cod to help buy spell check for him.
i put some of gb7?s best misspellings on the jar.
ironically the most money thrown in was from kindergarten kids laughing like hyenas .
rumor has it gb7 blew spell check software to smithereens with his blunderbuss.
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It’s the “day after” affects of too much green beer and chitlin’s
and it’s really funny how you take me saying that something like Gordon for Hughes would be fair value and spin it into him being worthless and having no value……that doesn’t even make sense.
Yankeefem,
Ill be there! Hell, I even get to sleep in an extra hour!
It was such a pleasant discussion and now tempers are getting hot again.
“According to most people on here, Hughes has no value in a trade and almost worthless.”
I’m not one of those people GB so either read the entire conversations and comment accurately on what I say or don’t comment on what I say at all.
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I don’t recall naming you as one of them, but, more and more, you’re becoming a little more irrational in your posts. Done is good enough for me.
“I don’t recall naming you as one of them, but, more and more, you’re becoming a little more irrational in your posts. ”
I could say you’re becoming more mean spirited and illogical in yours. I’ve let a lot of your comments slide but when you continually either read half of what I say or misinterpret what I’m saying and say nasty things about it….it gets kinda old……
blake is irrational? OMG. I’m out for now.
“It’s the “day after” affects of too much green beer and chitlin’s”
you could get a little more mixed up about your heritage i suppose.
just don’t eat any sushi chitlins if you’re trying to get in touch with your japanese side.
stuckey March 18th, 2012 at 2:28 pm
Bret,
I recall a few weeks ago you remarking the Yankees must have found the trade market for Hughes dry, because you were expecting him to be moved after the Pineda/Kuroda acquisitions.
What do you think has changed? Pettitte affects the Yankees depth, it does not affect the trade market for the same pitcher?
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What changed? For one they moved AJ Burnett instead of Hughes which was a surprise. But I do agree that the major holdup is that other offers are not strong enough yet. According to Olney the Yankees have been shopping quietly for an outfielder since December so it wouldn’t surprise me if Phil is being shopped. Now Olney reports that the Yankees are listening on pitchers. Nothing has changed…just negotiations are slow. The Pineda trade talks began in December and look how long they took. Months? The market for Montero didn’t change all of a a sudden…it evolved and when the Yankees found something worth Montero they pounced. Why should Hughes be any different?
blake March 18th, 2012 at 2:29 pm
“Gordon will be 30 and making Swisher money in 2014.”
That’s fine….he’d be a Yankee at ages 28 and 29 making arbitration money. That’s just a hypothetical name….but he’d buy they one year of having both he and Swisher and he’d give them an extra year to find a long term solution that was cheaper.
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I see your logic. I can get on board with that.
randy l. March 18th, 2012 at 2:35 pm
“It’s the “day after” affects of too much green beer and chitlin’s”
you could get a little more mixed up about your heritage i suppose.
just don’t eat any sushi chitlins if you’re trying to get in touch with your japanese side.
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I’m southern Irish.
Ys Guy March 18th, 2012 at 2:28 pm
wow! mike pelfrey’s decline continues, collins has to come take him out in the third inning after giving up 7 runs on 8 hits against the toothless houston astros. he was considered the best pitcher in his draft, bp had him as the #20 prospect in baseball and his performance has been consistently and continuously moving from bad to worse, to deplorable. lucky for him he’d have to drop to ollie perez-type uselessness before the mets could even think of taking him out of the rotation.
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When it rains it pours for the Mets.
Tom-san. Good for you, whereas I have to wake up 3 hours earlier than usual in order to watch.
GB,
I’m as thick skinned as they come so I really don’t care…..and I try to get along with everyone…..but I don’t like things I say being characterized incorrectly….
I’m out for now guys
Can’t speak about trading Hughes that’s frowned upon around here.
MLB ? @MLB
“Just a sprain … he should be fine in a couple of days.” @Phillies asst. GM Proefrock on Polanco’s finger … http://atmlb.com/yiNvn1
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If he’s the asst GM for Phillies, why is he so concerned about Montero being traded?
Bret,
Ah, okay we’re on the same page.
I was just pointing out if you were of the belief the Yankees were already shopping Hughes for months, that the Pettitte news does not affect that situation.
I got the sense you were arguing for dealing Hughes with a new sense of vigor/urgency. I misunderstood.
Yes, the market may in fact be very limited for him.
Craw, maybe, but it was only Moore’s second start. He’s been held out of games with a shoulder strain (I recall as a result of doing fielding drills). He pitched decently in his first start, aside from the overthrowing in his second inning. Might just be rust.
NCSU to the sweet 16
Like I said, it could be a number of things with Moore.
there is no telling what the yankees needs or other teams will be in 6 weeks when pettitte should be ready.
personally, i think the yankees should sign hughes to a fairly low long term contract and then rebuild his value by pitching him. then he’d have a fixed contract and pitching value.
as he is now, i don’t see him being worth much to any team.