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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Rapada: “I feel like I’ve got nothing to lose”

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 22, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Out of high school, Clay Rapada bounced around to different colleges. He was never drafted, and he only signed with the Cubs after pitching in a summer league in 2002. The next year, Chicago suggested that he ditch his three-quarters delivery and drop down.

Rapada’s pitched that way ever since, groomed almost from the very beginning to be a lefty specialist.

“From their point of view, it was an opportunity to mess around,” he said. “I was an undrafted guy. Any type of risk or different look, it was pretty much a roll of the dice, and it just seemed to work out. As an undrafted guy, you don’t really have those expectations of, ‘I need to be in the big leagues in two years.’ It’s, ‘What can I do to stay in the game?’”

With his funky mechanics, Rapada climbed the minor league ladder step by step. He’s pitched parts of five seasons in the big leagues, held lefties to a .153/.252/.220 slash line, and this spring, he’s been the most impressive Yankees reliever not named Mariano Rivera.

“I came here knowing that there was an opportunity,” he said. “For guys like myself, you want to go where there’s an opportunity, where you can fight for a job. I don’t mind coming to camp and getting ready for a season, but having that extra chip on your shoulder to fight for a job is always a plus. It gives you that motivation to come in early in the morning and get your work in and work hard.”

Rapada has allowed two hits in 6.1 innings. He’s struck out nine, walked three and has yet to give up a run. His 0.79 WHIP is third on the team behind Rivera (who’s the greatest closer of all time) and George Kontos (who’s already in minor league camp after just two innings of work). He’s been especially good against left-handers, not afraid to work either side of the plate with his fastball/slider* combination.

With one spot open in the bullpen, Rapada’s making a convincing case.

“I feel like I’ve got nothing to lose,” he said. “I’ve got everything to gain and nothing to lose, so it’s not going to hurt me when I throw everything at them.”

* Rapada’s slider is the exact same pitch that used to be a big, loopy curveball with his old mechanics. When his arm angle changed, the breaking ball — still held with a typical curveball grip —

Associated Press photo

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244 Responses to “Rapada: “I feel like I’ve got nothing to lose””

  1. yanks61 March 22nd, 2012 at 10:14 am

    Rich in NJ March 21st, 2012 at 11:02 pm
    “babe ruth got traded a few times and released.”

    By and large, the RS trade of Babe Ruth stands for the proposition that idea that “every player is tradeable” is illusory unless you want to destroy your franchise for years.

    —————————————————————————–

    Wow, this early morning remark is a sign of fatigue?

    Hey, Rich, are you really implying that the Montero trade is akin to the RS trading Babe Ruth, a guy who was already a major league HR leader, not to mention one of the best LH in the game? That it’s already forecasting the demise of the Yankee franchise?

    A little over the top, what?

    You might also want to put the RS collapse of those days into a much broader context. They had one of the best teams in BB at the time and held a virtual fire sale on their players (quite a bit like Charlie O with the Oakland A’s.)

    So the destruction of their franchise had to do with that, even more than sale of the Babe. It would kind of be like the Yanks trading Cano, CC and some others now.

    And, of course, the Yanks, it should be noted, got quite a few of those star RS players at the time – not just Ruth. Obviously it produced a real reversal of power in the AL.

  2. RadioKev March 22nd, 2012 at 10:16 am

    Thanks for the profile Chad. It seems like he could be a quality addition to our pen.

    We may have bagged the elusive second LOOGY.

  3. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 22nd, 2012 at 10:19 am

    Just some random rambling drive-by thoughts. I came to read over posts. It’s a nice distraction right now.

    1. I know ST isn’t a sure-fire predictor (“sure fire” hyphenated because it modifies “predictor”, ahem) of success or failure but Detroit is making me ill. On the other hand, I am impressed as heck with Toronto! I’d like to think that one is a predictor and the other isn’t! (Toronto = predictor)

    2. My simplistic view on Hughes is that the Yankees have put too much into him, belief and training-wise, to give him up if he has finally gotten his stride back. I believe he will be part of the rotation for years to come.

    3. The divergence of opinion on so many topics here is amazing. And predictably, various people with polar opposite opinions are convinced theirs’ are the correct takes. Opinion is a funny duck, hey?

    4. I love my WCS Rosy but I think that hearing constant Montero updates is almost painful. Others may think differently. It would be like going on the Ms forum and giving them constant updates on Pineda. For those who hated the loss of Pineda, that’s almost like a knife through the soul, especially if Pineda continues to do well! JMO. If others are greatful for the updates, then so be it. I think in time it will sting less. For now I’d like to put it in the rear-view mirror.

    MTU those pictures were beautiful. They really soothe the soul.

    Take care all.

  4. Chip March 22nd, 2012 at 10:24 am

    I really really wish there was a spot on this roster for Justin Maxwell. Hopefully his performance last year pre-injury and his performance this spring will at least net the Yankees something useful in a trade before the close of spring training (or they suck it up and release Ibanez – which they won’t)

    Rapada’s performance has clearly put him in the lead for the last spot in the pen I think.

  5. Chip March 22nd, 2012 at 10:25 am

    Trisha -

    Opinions are like rear ends – everyone has one.

  6. Villa Nova-Ya March 22nd, 2012 at 10:25 am

    Trisha -

    I am glad you said #4. I love Rosy’s contributions here, but the Montero stuff is as you said, ‘knife through the soul,” and as I’ve said, “salt in the wound.” I know you and Rosy have great esteem for each other.

  7. Chip March 22nd, 2012 at 10:26 am

    Chipper Jones to retire at the end of the season – I believe that he is one of only four players still in the league from the 1996 World Series.

  8. Chip March 22nd, 2012 at 10:28 am

    Here’s something to make the people who feel the Yankees got a raw deal in sending away Montero better – Jon Heyman agrees with you – which pretty much means that the Yankees are going to come away from this deal looking like the proverbial cat that ate the canary.

  9. Chip March 22nd, 2012 at 10:28 am

    I’m wrong – there are technically now 5 players left from that series

  10. Chip March 22nd, 2012 at 10:31 am

    Yankee Trader March 22nd, 2012 at 9:27 am

    Also, the Royals traded for OF’er Jason Bourgeois from the Astros. In 238 ab’s he hit .298 and stole 31 bases.

    The Royals have OF’ers Gordon, Francoeur and Lorenzo Cain.
    The Royals need starting pitching to contend in that division. Their bullpen is pretty solid despite the loss of closer Soria, and their team was 4th in AL BA last year @.275 and 6th in runs scored @730.

    What might it take for the Yankees to get 25 yo righty Lorenzo Cain, shift Swisher to DH?
    ——————–

    Cain was a big part of the Greinke trade and the Royals just moved Melky to open up CF for him despite Cabrera’s strong season last year – all that is a long way of saying that I don’t think they’re going to be interested in moving Cain.

  11. Ys Guy March 22nd, 2012 at 10:35 am

    donny is that your projections or someone else’s. i threw out my projection of hughes winning 17 yesterday.

  12. blake March 22nd, 2012 at 10:37 am

    “blake, let’s recognize I was minding my own business and you brought me up unsolicited”.

    Kinda like you do to me all the time when you take one of my posts and turn it into some long drawn out discussion about the payroll and misrepresent my stance on it…..kinda like how one of your “5 points” from last night was “blake hates the budget”……come on man….

  13. randy l. March 22nd, 2012 at 10:45 am

    “4. I love my WCS Rosy but I think that hearing constant Montero updates is almost painful. Others may think differently.”

    if the truth hurts, i suppose compass rosy’s posts are a problem for pollyanna’s and people doing their best ostrich interpretations .

    the reality is that the gm who made a highly controversial trade is still on the chopping block depending how this trade works out. so many of us welcome transparency and information about montero.

    the trade is not water over the dam because the people evaluating young players like montero are still evaluating young yankee players. if they were wrong in their evaluations about montero catching, what else are they wrong about?

    nice try attempting to subtly coerce compass rosy into not posting info about montero.

  14. Ys Guy March 22nd, 2012 at 10:47 am

    speaking for myself, i love compasrosy’s posts, keep ‘em coming!

  15. Shame Spencer March 22nd, 2012 at 10:47 am

    blake – The way that he doesn’t understand why we care about it is the way I can’t understand why someone wouldn’t. You literally can’t have a conversation about the future of this team without considering it.

  16. stuckey March 22nd, 2012 at 10:47 am

    “Kinda like you do to me all the time when you take one of my posts and turn it into some long drawn out discussion about the payroll and misrepresent my stance on it…..kinda like how one of your “5 points” from last night was “blake hates the budget”……come on man….”

    blake, wasn’t a complaint, it was an observation.

    I have NO problem discussing the matter. You’ve been complaining about simply having the discussion of late. I’m just pointing out each of the last 2 days, you’ve invited the discussion by mentioning the budget and me in the same post unsolicited.

    As always, I don’t get the “long drawn out” discussion part. It is YOU that raises the issue MUCH more often than I, and is there some sort of time limit I’m unaware of? Aren’t both of us accessible here pretty much all day, every day?

    What’s “long” in context of indefinite?

    Sorry, blake, I understand your position just fine. You don’t want the Yankees to have to do what EVERY professional sports franchise does, prioritize. And given the Yankees ALREADY have by considerable margin the highest payroll in professional sports, that means they may now have to do what they’ve never had to do before, which is part with productive players.

    That is an unwelcome, unappealing change, I GET that fine.

    What I don’t understand how reasonable people faced with a new reality can’t just make the simple adjustment that this IS now reality. You’ve had plenty of time as this point.

  17. Hassey March 22nd, 2012 at 10:49 am

    No tengo ni idea de qué está hablando usted ..

  18. stuckey March 22nd, 2012 at 10:54 am

    “the reality is that the gm who made a highly controversial trade”

    The trade is not controversial, much less highly.

    Just because SOME people don’t like it (which is the default position for EVERYthing) doesn’t make it “controversial.”

    I’ve yet to see any polling of Yankee fans that shows this trade as anything but well-received.

    It is self-involved and self-important to promote this transaction as “highly controversial”.

    You and some others don’t like it, which is a perfectly valid opinion. Doesn’t make it controversial. You just prefer to characterize it that way.

    “so many of us welcome transparency and information about montero.”

    Yes, because stats, recaps and blogs about ML baseball players is so difficult to find these days. Thank goodness for the watchdogs digging this information up for us.

    “the trade is not water over the dam because the people evaluating young players like montero are still evaluating young yankee players. if they were wrong in their evaluations about montero catching, what else are they wrong about?”

    Are you suggesting the threshold for a GM to be successful is infallibility?

    Mistakes have been made, mistakes will be made. Who exactly do think doesn’t already know this? LoHudders of your invention?

    Name names?

  19. randy l. March 22nd, 2012 at 10:56 am

    “Name names?”

    you need to get a hobby .

  20. Bo knows March 22nd, 2012 at 10:56 am

    Montero – Fingernails on a chalkboard – irritant – scree.

  21. Chip March 22nd, 2012 at 10:57 am

    The salary issue is a big one, not just for the financial implications associated with being over the tax threshold in 2014 but also the draft picks that the Yankees could lose as well. That said, I’m not going to get that bent out of shape over it.

    Even though Hal is not George I find it hard to believe that he would sacrifice a shot at a championship to get under $189.

    That said, we’ve looked at the payroll a lot as it is projected for 2014 and I think we can all be in agreement that the Yankees are going to be able to field a very strong ball club at $189 mil.

  22. stuckey March 22nd, 2012 at 10:57 am

    “The way that he doesn’t understand why we care about it is the way I can’t understand why someone wouldn’t. You literally can’t have a conversation about the future of this team without considering it.”

    Which is what makes it interesting to me. I’m not ignoring the budget Shame, I’m accepting it.

    Once one time many years ago a girl I liked broke up with me. I was very, very upset.

    I got over it eventually.

    That this concept is SO elusive is frankly baffling.

  23. Chip March 22nd, 2012 at 10:58 am

    Bo knows March 22nd, 2012 at 10:56 am

    Montero – Fingernails on a chalkboard – irritant – scree.
    —————–

    Agreed.

    I’m so tired of this particular conversation I could vomit.

  24. blake March 22nd, 2012 at 10:58 am

    Stuckey,

    So you don’t think you invite long discussions where the conversation goes round in circles? …..ok man.

    “What you said is like saying I don’t mind the rain, I just don’t like getting wet.”

    I’ve always thought this was kinda a dumb saying…..because its perfectly reasonable that someone who like to watch the rain from indoors…..or like what the rain does to the plants and flowers etc……and still at the same time not like to get wet.

  25. Jerkface March 22nd, 2012 at 10:58 am

    No one is making a shrine to the Yankee budget in their room.

  26. Chip March 22nd, 2012 at 10:59 am

    For the record – the Jets trading for Tebow is controversial – the Yankees trading for Pineda is considered a good trade for both teams – that’s not controversial – that’s fair.

  27. Ys Guy March 22nd, 2012 at 11:01 am

    wow, beningo and roberts are tearing up the jets over tebow. they’re jets fans and they are predicting a complete disaster.

  28. Bronx Jeers March 22nd, 2012 at 11:01 am

    if the truth hurts, i suppose compass rosy’s posts are a problem for pollyanna’s and people doing their best ostrich interpretations .

    —————————————————–

    It doesn’t necessarily have to be this deep.

    To me it’s like Rosy is the dude that’s sleeping with the hot girl that just dumped me and he all he keeps telling me is how great in bed she is. :wink:

  29. blake March 22nd, 2012 at 11:02 am

    “Which is what makes it interesting to me. I’m not ignoring the budget Shame, I’m accepting it.”

    So am I….did you read any of my posts this morning?

  30. Rich in NJ March 22nd, 2012 at 11:02 am

    Wow, this early morning remark is a sign of fatigue?

    Hey, Rich, are you really implying that the Montero trade is akin to the RS trading Babe Ruth, a guy who was already a major league HR leader, not to mention one of the best LH in the game? That it’s already forecasting the demise of the Yankee franchise?

    WTF are you talking about?

    A little over the top, what?

    Your post? Yeah, it is. It’s an example of Montero Derangement Syndrome on the part of Yankee fans who refuse to believe that the franchise can possibly do anything wrong.

    You might also want to put the RS collapse of those days into a much broader context. They had one of the best teams in BB at the time and held a virtual fire sale on their players (quite a bit like Charlie O with the Oakland A’s.)

    As JAP posted, “No, No Nanette.”

    So the destruction of their franchise had to do with that, even more than sale of the Babe. It would kind of be like the Yanks trading Cano, CC and some others now.

    That’s nice. Who cares?

    And, of course, the Yanks, it should be noted, got quite a few of those star RS players at the time – not just Ruth. Obviously it produced a real reversal of power in the AL.

    That’s nice. Who cares?

    Funny that you didn’t reproduce the context that was from like three or four threads ago.

    Babe Ruth was brought up by:

    Ys Guy March 21st, 2012 at 10:59 pm
    this is professional baseball. everybody has a value, every value is tranferrable. babe ruth got traded a few times and released.

    I then said:

    Rich in NJ March 21st, 2012 at 11:02 pm

    By and large, the RS trade of Babe Ruth stands for the proposition that idea that “every player is tradeable” is illusory unless you want to destroy your franchise for years.

    The point being that just because Babe Ruth was traded, it doesn’t mean it was smart to do it, and that there are costs.

    That doesn’t mean that Montero is Babe Ruth, but just because Montero isn’t Babe Ruth, it doesn’t logically follow that trading Montero still wasn’t a very bad idea.

    Let me nutshell it for you:

    1) The Yankees are likely to need young impact offense more than impact young pitching over the next three years given Jeter and A-Rod’s respective ages.
    2) They have ML ready good starting pitching and near ML ready great starting pitching.
    3) They have no other near ML ready impact bats.
    4) An impact bat that may be able to catch 50-80 games is incredibly valuable.
    5) But if they need an impact bat at SS or 3B, who better to trade for that than Montero.

    Stop bringing this sh!t up. It’s freakin’ boring.

  31. stuckey March 22nd, 2012 at 11:02 am

    “So you don’t think you invite long discussions where the conversation goes round in circles? …..ok man”

    So Randy doesn’t go around in circles about Pineda? And Rich doesn’t go round in circles about Montero? And Betsy doesn’t go around in circles about Hughes? And J.AP doens’t go around in circles about Montero and Girardi? And Bret doesn’t go around in circles about Hughes/Cain-Hamels/lefty bat of the week? And Trish doesn’t go around in circles about the “Sux”?

    Etc. etc. etc.?

    C’mon blake, you’re better than that.

  32. stuckey March 22nd, 2012 at 11:05 am

    Your post? Yeah, it is. It’s an example of Montero Derangement Syndrome on the part of Yankee fans who refuse to believe that the franchise can possibly do anything wrong.

    ____________

    Name ONE.

    [silence]

  33. Gary March 22nd, 2012 at 11:05 am

    Gary March 22nd, 2012 at 7:36 am

    Morning, anybody know who the proposed SP’ers are for the Sunday game (25th) vrs Detroit?

  34. blake March 22nd, 2012 at 11:05 am

    “C’mon blake, you’re better than that.”

    And you go round and round in circles complaining about everyone else going round and round in circles :)

  35. Ys Guy March 22nd, 2012 at 11:05 am

    i can’t imagine how crazy ’76ers fans must be this morning about their team conceding the last 10 seconds of a 1 possession game last night. you know how serene philly fans are…

  36. blake March 22nd, 2012 at 11:07 am

    “No one is making a shrine to the Yankee budget in their room.”

    Maybe Hal…..

  37. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 22nd, 2012 at 11:07 am

    “nice try attempting to subtly coerce compass rosy into not posting info about montero.”

    I came right out and mentioned it to her earlier, so you’re incorrect on my motivation.

    Since I said that others might be fine with it and if so, so be it, then it is apparent that I was just giving my opinion.

    I personally would rather not read about it but that’s me, especially since it’s a sore subject here and tends to bring more acrimony and discord then harmony.

    It isn’t like people don’t know where to get the information without her input, by the way. It’s readily available on the internet.

    Finally about being pollyana-ish or ostrich-like. Since I totally believe Montero is going to continue to be a phenom and have made no bones about that ever, mine is coming from a good place, randy, not an evil place. I’d personally like to be spared the pain of hearing about it all the time.

    Not everyone’s motivations are nefarious randy.

  38. blake March 22nd, 2012 at 11:08 am

    Rosy just forgot what a good hitter looked like and now she’s super excited and can’t contain herself….

  39. Rich in NJ March 22nd, 2012 at 11:09 am

    I wish everyone would stop posting about Montero. But I know it’s not possible. So I am resigned to it. But I won’t watch Yankee- Mariner games.

  40. Villa Nova-Ya March 22nd, 2012 at 11:13 am

    randy l -

    The trade is water over the dam insofar as it cannot be undone. As far as opinions about the trade, well, that can go on for a loooooooooooooonnnnnnnggggggg time. And how the trade ultimately turns out for both teams won’t be know for awhile. I am not hell-bent on proving the Yankees wrong every time they do something. If they’re wrong, they’re wrong. But I’m less concerned about being wrong on a particular player, because that happens in every organization at one time or another. The most important thing for them is to field a winning (playoff bound, hopefully WS-winning) team. Who the particular players are who get them there is less important to me.

    I would not dream of co-ercing Rosy into not posting her Montero info. I would ask that it be in a link, so that if I want to look at I can, but the choice is mine depending on my mood that day. LOL

    I am neither a Pollyanna nor an ostrich. I don’t share the depths of my opinions here, either. Because as I said the other day, they can often be contradictory and convoluted and it’s tiresome having to defend oneself here. And yes, I see the irony, having done just that. ;)

  41. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 22nd, 2012 at 11:14 am

    Rosy’s intentions are nothing but good. I think the last good hitter she got to see was Edgar. I’m just saying that the end result doesn’t always feel so good.

    “It doesn’t necessarily have to be this deep.

    To me it’s like Rosy is the dude that’s sleeping with the hot girl that just dumped me and he all he keeps telling me is how great in bed she is. ;)

    Thanks Jeers. That’s basically where I’m coming from.

  42. MTU March 22nd, 2012 at 11:16 am

    I’ll be on the go this week so I don’t know how much I’ll be able to post.

    Catch you all when I can.

    :)

  43. DONNYBROOK March 22nd, 2012 at 11:17 am

    Miguel Cabrera going down may have Little Caesar thinking twice about planting this guy at 3B. After the face breaker incident, Cabrera may Ole every ball hit in his direction. The Fielder signing was a knee-jerk mistake both on the field and on the ledger. Made about as much sence as the Yanks signing Pujols. You just cannot Make a player fit your current roster.

  44. Rich in NJ March 22nd, 2012 at 11:17 am

    MTU

    Take care.

  45. stuckey March 22nd, 2012 at 11:18 am

    blake,

    I wasn’t mentioned unsolicited yesterday. I tried to push the conversation forward to a place it had never been before by asking a simple and perfectly fair and relevant question – what SHOULD the Yankees budget be.

    This was met by great resistance by interested parties, who argued despite it’s ultra-relevancy that you yourself are acknowledging, just wanted to leave it at the more nebula “more” or “whatever is necessary” as to avoid actually having to confront the issue in any pragmatic terms.

    So accuse of going in circles if you like, but its really not accurate.

    Whether the super-hefty premium of going over $189m makes ANY practical sense if you’re just going to go a little over $189m is a perfectly relevant issue and not a detail that has been discussed here much.

  46. blake March 22nd, 2012 at 11:18 am

    Be safe MTU

  47. blake March 22nd, 2012 at 11:20 am

    “I wasn’t mentioned unsolicited yesterday.”

    I only mentioned you because people are misunderstanding my stance because of things you’ve said….

  48. blake March 22nd, 2012 at 11:21 am

    Stuckey,

    You asked a question without a finite answer and then got agitated when folks didn’t respond the way you wanted.

  49. Bronx Jeers March 22nd, 2012 at 11:22 am

    I’ll be on the go this week so I don’t know how much I’ll be able to post.

    Catch you all when I can.

    ——-

    Cops got you on the run again? Builiding bombs may be lucrative but it definitely eats up ones leisure time.

  50. Ys Guy March 22nd, 2012 at 11:23 am

    mcab getting hit in the face was not his fault at all. you can complain about his fielding but that hop could’ve hit nettles in the face.

  51. randy l. March 22nd, 2012 at 11:23 am

    so its’ unanimous that compass rosy is free to post as much info as she wants about montero?

    excellent :)

  52. stuckey March 22nd, 2012 at 11:23 am

    blake, again, I’m not complaining, I’m observing.

    By posting here I’m inviting response, but definition. You will NEVER, ever here me complain about someone bringing me or something I said up.

    I was simply pointing out I’m not the only guilty party in raising this issue between us.

  53. Rich in NJ March 22nd, 2012 at 11:24 am

    It will probably help Cashman get fired faster, huh, randy? :P

  54. blake March 22nd, 2012 at 11:26 am

    There is no way you can definitely say the Yankees budget should be x amount…..the circumstances are constantly changing……so the answer….”as much as it takes to field the best team within reason ” is about as good as I can do……I know the subjective term “within reason” bothers you bt I don’t know what else to say…..its a subjective opinion with subjective components to the point.

  55. Jerkface March 22nd, 2012 at 11:27 am

    You just cannot Make a player fit your current roster.

    I believe this is what every team does when they sign a player.

  56. Wave Your Hat March 22nd, 2012 at 11:28 am

    “so its’ unanimous that compass rosy is free to post as much info as she wants about montero?”

    You mean we get to vote on who can post what? Great!!!!!

    I move that all further discussion of the Montero-Pineda trade be banned from the LoHud Yankees blog comment section.

    Do I hear a second?

  57. Rich in NJ March 22nd, 2012 at 11:29 am

    “Do I hear a second?”

    Yes, but the wind just blew it back in my face.

  58. BD (Boston Dave) March 22nd, 2012 at 11:31 am

    Seconded

  59. Wave Your Hat March 22nd, 2012 at 11:31 am

    ““Do I hear a second?”
    Yes, but the wind just blew it back in my face.”

    So to speak, LOL.

  60. Wave Your Hat March 22nd, 2012 at 11:33 am

    The motion to ban all further discussion of the Montero-Pineda trade has been seconded. All those in favor vote “Aye”. All those opposed vote “NO”.

    Wave Your Hat votes “Aye”.

  61. Chip March 22nd, 2012 at 11:33 am

    Wave Your Hat March 22nd, 2012 at 11:28 am

    “so its’ unanimous that compass rosy is free to post as much info as she wants about montero?”

    You mean we get to vote on who can post what? Great!!!!!

    I move that all further discussion of the Montero-Pineda trade be banned from the LoHud Yankees blog comment section.

    Do I hear a second?
    —————–

    Aye

  62. randy l. March 22nd, 2012 at 11:33 am

    i was listening to npr yesterday on a little road trip,and there a lengthy interview with a guy who wrote a book about creativity.

    among a lot of other techniques he gave for stimulating creativity was debating. he basically said a company that has a whole lot of internal debating and yes arguing is a more creative company.

    i would argue that the blog is more stimulating when people are arguing and debating rather than agreeing on everything. i would also argue that the yankees were a more creative enterprise when george set up the constant fighting and debate between the new york faction and tampa faction.

    the team has a bunch of “yes” people right now who basically kiss up to cashman. the yankees need some healthy debate and some people who flat out dislike each other.

    everyone being on the same page is overrated. it’s a fine line between pulling in the same direction and group speak.

    i’d like to know if even one person in the present management fought to keep montero.
    i doubt it.

    that’s a problem going into the future for the yankees .

  63. blake March 22nd, 2012 at 11:36 am

    Randy,

    I think there is probably some truth to that….

  64. Chip March 22nd, 2012 at 11:36 am

    Jerkface March 22nd, 2012 at 11:27 am

    You just cannot Make a player fit your current roster.

    I believe this is what every team does when they sign a player.
    —————–

    Not really.

    If your team loses its SS then there is a natural space for a new SS to come play.

    If your team already has a SS and you sign another SS then you are creating a situation where you have to try to make things fit.

    Sometimes it works (Alex and Jeter) sometimes it doesn’t (Adrian Gonzalez and Youk)

  65. Shame Spencer March 22nd, 2012 at 11:36 am

    “You mean we get to vote on who can post what? Great!!!!!”

    I was trying to institute a merit/demerit system but no one likes it :D

  66. Ys Guy March 22nd, 2012 at 11:38 am

    ok! so we’ll just play like the trade never happened and pineda was drafted by the yankees and the b/u catcher who’s name will not be mentioned was drafted by the m’s.

    …so i got an idea! how about we trade pineda to the M’s for a catcher who hits with power?
    :)

  67. Wave Your Hat March 22nd, 2012 at 11:38 am

    “i would also argue that the yankees were a more creative enterprise when george set up the constant fighting and debate between the new york faction and tampa faction.”

    I don’t think so. The Yanks are having a lot more success now than in the waning days of the King George era.

  68. DONNYBROOK March 22nd, 2012 at 11:41 am

    Big difference between a “Debate” and a “Discussion”. Most you guys choose to “discuss” because you are afraid to state an opinion you will possibly be held accountable for. This is why we get a lotta “scouts” opinions sited, and numbers spouted out the ying-yang.

  69. Jerkface March 22nd, 2012 at 11:42 am

    Sometimes it works (Alex and Jeter) sometimes it doesn’t (Adrian Gonzalez and Youk)

    Every example you gave is a team making a player fit their current roster, the one without a shortop included. And of course by citing a case that agrees with me you are indeed agreeing with me. The absolute ‘you just cannot make a player fit your roster’ is obviously false. Teams have been doing it for years.

  70. blake March 22nd, 2012 at 11:43 am

    I think the environment with the Tampa and Ny factions was unhealthy and counterproductive …..but I also think that differing opinions can be healthy at times as well and really help get to the best answer.

  71. stuckey March 22nd, 2012 at 11:43 am

    “You asked a question without a finite answer.”

    That people want the answer to be infinite was EXACTLY the point I was making.

    I suggested Fielder, and you characterized that as “unrealistic”, suggesting there is in fact a finite answer.

    I’ll ask again, what is the realistic/unrealistic line?

    Why is identifying the rough location of the line so disagreeable?

  72. Jerkface March 22nd, 2012 at 11:44 am

    i would also argue that the yankees were a more creative enterprise when george set up the constant fighting and debate between the new york faction and tampa faction.

    No, because both factions had equal power to enact trades or sign players, which meant all their creative debate or whatever hooey you think went on undermined the operation, as one side could simply proceed without agreement. This led to things like Steinbrenner signing Sheffield while Cashman was courting Vlad.

  73. Chip March 22nd, 2012 at 11:44 am

    Randy,

    I don’t think people kiss up to Cashman; there are a segment of fans who (like me) believe that in the end the Yankees themselves know more about their players and their needs than even the most informed fan could hope to and so we give them the benefit of the doubt. But that’s not what this is about – this is about the fact that there comes a time where beating a dead horse loses its appeal.

    We have come to that point in this debate.

    This is not a trade that is going to be evaluated in Spring Training and may not be fully evaluated for a year or two so coming onto here everyday and espousing the same message — that you don’t agree with the trade and that you think it will cost Cashman his job — becomes redundant and forces the rest of us to either argue our own points (again) or to beg for a change in the conversation (again). It makes the conversation stagnant.

    Unless I’m wrong I don’t think there has been anything that has happened that would change anyone’s opinion of this trade. There hasn’t been a meaningful game, or a meaningful inning played. And if the plan is to declare this trade an abject failure every time Pineda gives up a run or every time Montero hits a homerun during their (hopefully long and productive) careers this is going to get even older faster.

    No one is saying that you can’t have an opinion – we just wish that you had an opinion on something else.

  74. blake March 22nd, 2012 at 11:45 am

    Yankeesource @YankeeSource 1h Six of last 10 outs Phil Hughes recorded yesterday came on change-ups. And he also threw 12 change-ups in last 48 pitches (25%)

    Maybe the best I’ve seen it look….

  75. Wave Your Hat March 22nd, 2012 at 11:46 am

    “..but I also think that differing opinions can be healthy at times as well and really help get to the best answer.”

    Sure, but discussions can get to the point where nothing new is said, each side has too much emotional capital invested to listen to the other side and it is all infinitely dull.

  76. blake March 22nd, 2012 at 11:46 am

    “Why is identifying the rough location of the line so disagreeable?”

    What do you think it should be?

  77. DONNYBROOK March 22nd, 2012 at 11:46 am

    Just look at that Blake 11:43 comment. He’s got the fence right between his legs. OUCH

  78. Chip March 22nd, 2012 at 11:47 am

    Jerkface March 22nd, 2012 at 11:42 am

    Sometimes it works (Alex and Jeter) sometimes it doesn’t (Adrian Gonzalez and Youk)

    Every example you gave is a team making a player fit their current roster, the one without a shortop included. And of course by citing a case that agrees with me you are indeed agreeing with me. The absolute ‘you just cannot make a player fit your roster’ is obviously false. Teams have been doing it for years.
    ————-

    I think the comment “you just cannot make a player fit on your roster” was meant to suggest that you can’t take a first baseman and make him a third baseman and expect it to work every time. But as it wasn’t my comment I’m speculating.

    And my first example was one where there’s no reason to “make” a player fit your roster because there’s a natural spot for him. I believe (again – speculating) that the original comment was more of the “you can’t fit a square peg into a round hole” variety.

  79. stuckey March 22nd, 2012 at 11:47 am

    i’d like to know if even one person in the present management fought to keep montero.
    i doubt it.

    that’s a problem going into the future for the yankees .

    ____________

    You don’t know if there was any debate but you think it’s a problem anyway…?????

    I’d suggest the only thing worse than no debate is BAD debate, which if the above is any example (and it is) you’re guilty of.

  80. blake March 22nd, 2012 at 11:47 am

    “Sure, but discussions can get to the point where nothing new is said, each side has too much emotional capital invested to listen to the other side and it is all infinitely dull.”

    Well yea….you have to have enough in common that resolutions can be reached….

  81. yanks61 March 22nd, 2012 at 11:48 am

    Rich, I don’t get around to reading all the threads. In reading your comments the way I saw them posted, it was impossible for me to know that you had explained those remarks more fully. So I apologize if I misunderstood. That’s why I was astonished enough to ask that question.

    There are just so many drama queens here that it’s sometimes difficult to sort through reasonable arguments about the trade and those that are just clinging to their childish affection for favorite players and letting that get in the way of their logic. Or else completely and dramatically overstating the effects of certain trades.

    I didn’t think that was your case until I read your comments, innocently reading them without realizing, because of the way it was posted, that it was taken out of context.

    Players, whether we like it or not, are commodities in the entertainment business. Getting overly attached to them is just ridiculous. These guys are all ready to run off to other clubs when they reach FA if they don’t get the deal they want. So why shouldn’t clubs utilize their assets in any way they believe can improve their chances of winning? And without letting “attachment” get in the way.

    Of course there are perfectly legitimate arguments about any and every move a club makes. And that’s what makes for good discussion and why I try to read here as often as possible. It just don’t think it serves any purpose to carry on about any player move the Yanks make like they’re selling off one’s first born child.

  82. Jerkface March 22nd, 2012 at 11:48 am

    And my first example was one where there’s no reason to “make” a player fit your roster because there’s a natural spot for him. I believe (again – speculating) that the original comment was more of the “you can’t fit a square peg into a round hole” variety.

    And yet the latter happens every year.

  83. G. Love March 22nd, 2012 at 11:48 am

    As much as Montero becoming a middle of the order hitter right away for the M’s stinks to hear about, if the Yankees win it will become white noise in a few months. If the team struggles though and Pineda gets lit up, Montero will be the lightning rod all season. Especially when you read things that M’s scouts feel they’ll get better out of Noesi than they would’ve from Pineda.

    It’s a bizarre trade to this day. Knowing the Yankees were talking to Pettitte and Kuroda I still don’t see the rationale in trading a middle of the order bat on a team with underachievers in the middle of the order with long term guaranteed dollars.

    But if the Yankees hit, pitch and win, it will fade into the static of the season with the exception of the huggers who can’t let go.

    I’ve been quite vocal about one fact; If the Yankees scouting got Pineda wrong and gave up a young power masher for a guy who is hurt or has lost his plus velocity this young, then it’s time for Cashman to be removed from the job. You cannot have a GM who has this much trouble scouting pitching from other orgs. Every player who comes here loses 3-5 mph off their fastball or worse. It seems we always seem to get them at the wrong time.

  84. Ys Guy March 22nd, 2012 at 11:49 am

    im with you on cashman, chip, but i have to disagree with you on this:
    “No one is saying that you can’t have an opinion – we just wish that you had an opinion on something else.”

    randy has an opinion on almost everything and he’s eager to give it to you, he doesnt care what you think of it…and i almost always disagree with it…

    …and i look forward to hearing randy’s opinion and debating it everytime.

  85. blake March 22nd, 2012 at 11:49 am

    Donny,

    Sorry that comment was over your head.

  86. jacksquat March 22nd, 2012 at 11:50 am

    Rich in NJ March 22nd, 2012 at 11:09 am
    I wish everyone would stop posting about Montero. But I know it’s not possible. So I am resigned to it. But I won’t watch Yankee- Mariner games.

    I can’t wait for Pineda vs Montero! :mrgreen:

  87. Jerkface March 22nd, 2012 at 11:50 am

    And of course M-Cab and Youk aren’t even square->round pegs, they are previously round pegs returning to their round holes! Maybe they just got a little rounder. Youkilis played more games at third in 2011 than he did at first in 2010! He is injury prone, but that will be the case no matter where he plays.

  88. DONNYBROOK March 22nd, 2012 at 11:50 am

    Gee, I thought this was a Yankee Blog. Not the United Nations.

  89. Chip March 22nd, 2012 at 11:51 am

    blake March 22nd, 2012 at 11:43 am

    I think the environment with the Tampa and Ny factions was unhealthy and counterproductive …..but I also think that differing opinions can be healthy at times as well and really help get to the best answer.
    ——————-

    I think there are differing opinions within the organization. I think we’ve seen the result of that with the Soriano signing. Again, the only issue I have in the Yankee org right now is Nardi being in charge of the pitching.

  90. blake March 22nd, 2012 at 11:52 am

    “I can’t wait for Pineda vs Montero!”

    Ill like it better at Safeco with no short porch…..should be fun though.

  91. DONNYBROOK March 22nd, 2012 at 11:52 am

    Blake, your United Nations material. Koffi Anun (sp) would love you.

  92. Chip March 22nd, 2012 at 11:53 am

    Jerkface March 22nd, 2012 at 11:48 am

    And my first example was one where there’s no reason to “make” a player fit your roster because there’s a natural spot for him. I believe (again – speculating) that the original comment was more of the “you can’t fit a square peg into a round hole” variety.

    And yet the latter happens every year.
    ————–

    Yes it does – and sometimes with good results and sometimes with awful ones. Again, I don’t believe the original poster was saying that it doesn’t work any of the time, just that it doesn’t work all of the time.

  93. blake March 22nd, 2012 at 11:53 am

    I wonder if Rothschild is one of those buck the system personalites…I have no idea but I have read that he likes to have pretty much total control of the pitching staff

  94. DONNYBROOK March 22nd, 2012 at 11:53 am

    - JERKY -
    Youk has turned into a Bargain pick in Fantasy. The 1B\3B qualificatins help his value.

  95. Villa Nova-Ya March 22nd, 2012 at 11:54 am

    Randy l -

    But – consensus has to be reached after the arguing/debating (though, not here, naturally). The Tampa situation was not always a healthy one.

  96. Ys Guy March 22nd, 2012 at 11:54 am

    blake i missed you yesterday when we were discussing the phillies v. the nats.

    you’ll be glad to hear i’m (way) off the phils this year and actuallyl predict the nats finishing ahead of them.

  97. Jerkface March 22nd, 2012 at 11:55 am

    I think there are differing opinions within the organization. I think we’ve seen the result of that with the Soriano signing

    The problem with the Soriano signing is that its not differing opinions, its that signing ability has been given to people who shouldn’t have it. The Yankees should have had a lively debate on signing Soriano, but in the end left the decision up to the GM. And the contract up to the GM. Instead, like the Tampa faction, we get a surprise signing by someone who shouldn’t be signing players.

    I think the differing of opinion is referenced a lot with Joba.

  98. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 22nd, 2012 at 11:56 am

    I guess the reason I don’t think Cashman should or would lose his job no matter what happens with the Montero trade is this: I don’t think that the team had a position for Montero. So whether he hits 1000 or 100 it really wouldn’t have made much of a difference.

    It APPEARS that:

    1. The Yankees didn’t think his defense was good enough behind the dish.

    2. The Yankees weren’t going to lock up the DH position.

    If those two things are true, then what Montero does elsewhere becomes a moot point as the organization can’t kill Cashman if they agreed on the above two points.

  99. Jerkface March 22nd, 2012 at 11:56 am

    Again, I don’t believe the original poster was saying that it doesn’t work any of the time, just that it doesn’t work all of the time.

    The original language, yokelized or not, is clearly absolute. You just cannot make <– where is the room for success?

  100. J. Alfred Prufrock March 22nd, 2012 at 11:56 am

    i’d like to know if even one person in the present management fought to keep montero.
    i doubt it.
    ///

    This is an interesting question, Randy. I was having that discussion the other day with a friend who is also not thrilled they moved Montero: was the vote split?

    Which side was Stick Michael on, for instance? He’s the one who never tires of telling everyone that he rescued Rivera and Jeter from Steinbrenner folly. What side was he on, here?

    Did guys like Pena even get to weigh in? Which way would he have gone?

    Why wouldn’t the Yankees, for instance, with Pena, Girardi, and sage Yogi around, not to mention Cashman’s new icon, Russell Martin – welcome the challenge of improving Montero’s skills behind the plate, considering his bat is a no doubter and that after six years in the system, it was about to pay huge dividends?

    Chad, this isn’t going to go away, so how about some digging on who was for or against? Or was it unanimous?

    Inquiring minds want to know.

  101. randy l. March 22nd, 2012 at 11:57 am

    “I don’t think so. The Yanks are having a lot more success now than in the waning days of the King George era.”

    i’ll give you one example that is just one thing i know about. there are numerous more.

    i believe the tampa faction set up the last five championships.

    clete boyer as was clearly a tampa faction guy. clete boyer helped jeter immensely with his fielding.

    no way clete would kiss up to george let alone cashman.

    boyer’s contribution to the yankees is still there.

    http://www.baseballtoddsdugout.com/cleteboyer.html

    “the yankees do not have guys that have strong knowledgeable opinions anymore . cashman has removed all of them as far as i can tell.

    here’s alittle about the kind of coaches the yankees no longer have

    Carney Lansford (who won the American League batting title in 1981 with the Boston Red Sox) became Boyer’s prize pupil in Oakland. In 1988, Boyer returned to the Yankees as a minor league instructor. He managed at Class A Fort Lauderdale in 1989. Then, he spent the next two seasons as the third base coach for the Triple A Columbus Clippers. In 1992, he became third base coach for the Yankees and lasted three seasons.

    After coming over from the Bosox, Wade Boggs rejuvenated his career by winning back-to-back Gold Gloves in 1994 and ’95 – the first of his career. Current Yankee shortstop Derek Jeter also benefited from Boyer’s expertise.

    “In 1994, he made 54 errors in the minor leagues,” Boyer said of Jeter, the current Yankee captain. “Now, look at him.”

  102. blake March 22nd, 2012 at 11:57 am

    Ys,

    Yea…I still think the Phils have a good shot at the division this year…..but they are aging fast and really have no long term plan in place…..the Nats, Braves, and Marlins are all nipping at their heels…..I don’t know if the Nats are quite ready yet….but they may make it interesting.

  103. Chip March 22nd, 2012 at 11:57 am

    blake March 22nd, 2012 at 11:53 am

    I wonder if Rothschild is one of those buck the system personalites…I have no idea but I have read that he likes to have pretty much total control of the pitching staff
    ————————–

    Blake –

    If I was running the Yankees I would dump Nardi, name Rothschild the organizational pitching coordinator let him hire the minor league pitching coaches at every level, set the development charts for the orgs top pitching prospects and consult with Girardi on the major league pitching coach and bullpen coach.

    I would also do something similar with an organizational hitting instructor position.

  104. pat March 22nd, 2012 at 11:58 am

    I love reading everyones opinion on things the first time.

    Reading it the 100th time is less thrilling.

  105. Chip March 22nd, 2012 at 11:59 am

    Jerkface March 22nd, 2012 at 11:56 am

    Again, I don’t believe the original poster was saying that it doesn’t work any of the time, just that it doesn’t work all of the time.

    The original language, yokelized or not, is clearly absolute. You just cannot make <– where is the room for success?
    ———–

    Well again – not having posted it I'm not going to say definitively what the intent was. As I read it though I interpreted it to mean "you just can't hand a guy a glove and tell him to play 3b and expect it to go smoothly all the time" but again you're free to interpret it however you would like to.

  106. blake March 22nd, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    Chip,

    Yea I don’t know enough about it to agree or disagree with that…..I do like LR though….doesn’t seem to be a coincidence that wherever he goes the pitchers get better and strikeout more guys. I think he was a big addition last year.

  107. Chip March 22nd, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    Jerkface March 22nd, 2012 at 11:55 am

    I think there are differing opinions within the organization. I think we’ve seen the result of that with the Soriano signing

    The problem with the Soriano signing is that its not differing opinions, its that signing ability has been given to people who shouldn’t have it. The Yankees should have had a lively debate on signing Soriano, but in the end left the decision up to the GM. And the contract up to the GM. Instead, like the Tampa faction, we get a surprise signing by someone who shouldn’t be signing players.

    I think the differing of opinion is referenced a lot with Joba.
    —————

    The final authority on signing ultimately rests with ownership. Hal, being relatively new to this whole thing, made a mistake. He listened to the non-baseball people in making that signing. Now whether or not that’s still going on or whether Cashman had a sit down with him in private – we may never know.

  108. Wave Your Hat March 22nd, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    randy-

    Who was responsible for hiring Clete Boyer? Stick?

  109. randy l. March 22nd, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    without clete boyer there’d be no yankee BP pitcher carl taylor for 19910-1996. no carl taylor there’d be no neil allen. no neil allen there’d be no wang winning 19 games two years in a row.

    all these things were tampa faction people. there is a whole behind the scenes world that creates a team that never hits the sports pages, but if anyone things the yankees would have made the 5 championship run without the tampa faction they’d be mistaken.

    right now, the yankees are severely on the same page.

  110. stuckey March 22nd, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    What do you think it should be?

    _____________

    If $189m:

    1.) Is still a high/the highest figure in the game.
    2.) Serves an an impetus for the Yankees really focusing on developing their own players like they’ve never really been compelled to before.
    3.) Also results in the Yankees reconsidering contracts like Burnett’s and Soriano’s in a way they weren’t compelled to before.
    4.) Saves the Yankees 8-figures by staying under.

    It makes as much sense to me as any.

    I understand #4 doesn’t appeal to your sensibilities, but frankly, spending $60m to get $20m in added productive is just hard to reconcile for me by principle alone, particularly when the added benefit is marginal.

    So I answered your question earnestly. Can you do the same please?

  111. Jerkface March 22nd, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    As I read it though I interpreted it to mean “you just can’t hand a guy a glove and tell him to play 3b and expect it to go smoothly all the time” but again you’re free to interpret it however you would like to.

    The preceding argument does not suggest that, because he says they never should have signed him. Do you think they made that plan and thought it would go smoothly? Probably not, they had to know there would be kinks, but signing Fielder and making him fit the roster (despite having a spot open for him!) is fine. If you agree with me, stop disagreeing with me.

  112. DONNYBROOK March 22nd, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    Blake, you must love the pain of straddling that fence. You consistently climb back on it.

  113. Rich in NJ March 22nd, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    Creative tension is good, but no clear line of decision making authority isn’t. It makes true accountability hard. OTOH, there hasn’t been much accountability since George left, even though he was near psychotic about it at times.

  114. Jerkface March 22nd, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    The final authority on signing ultimately rests with ownership. Hal, being relatively new to this whole thing, made a mistake. He listened to the non-baseball people in making that signing. Now whether or not that’s still going on or whether Cashman had a sit down with him in private – we may never know.

    No, the budget can be set by Hal but the final authority on signings should rest with the GM, thats why he is paid the big bux. Owners meddling results in Randy Johnson trade and other flights of fancy by people that do not know baseball.

  115. stuckey March 22nd, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    “Chad, this isn’t going to go away,”

    ____________

    Not here it won’t. But it IS a tempest in a teapot. The “controversy” over this trade is isolated and miniscule.

  116. Rich in NJ March 22nd, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    “If the Yankees scouting got Pineda wrong and gave up a young power masher for a guy who is hurt or has lost his plus velocity this young, then it’s time for Cashman to be removed from the job.”

    This.

  117. blake March 22nd, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    “spending $60m to get $20m in added productive is just hard to reconcile for me by principle alone, particularly when the added benefit is marginal.”

    I agree with that …..so there you go. I agree the payroll in 2014 should be 189 IF they can still put a title contender on the field

    ” 1.) Is still a high/the highest figure in the game.”

    If its no longer the biggest number and other teams decide to play at that level as well…..then has the Yankees advantage been marginalized?

  118. randy l. March 22nd, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    “Who was responsible for hiring Clete Boyer? Stick?”

    clete was a yankee at heart. his roots go way back to his playing days.

    guys like him passed on the yankee way form one generation to another. clete still lives in jeter and i’m sure others.

    clete might have brought tony cloninger over to the yankees because i think they played on the braves together. tony had a huge influence on yankee pitchers. he’s been a red sox consultant ever since cashman fired him.

    i also am saying cashman and the new york faction were important too to create the debate.
    that’s a given in my argument that the tampa faction was essential to yankee success.

  119. Shame Spencer March 22nd, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    I just want to start interrogating other teams fans to see if they’d be up in arms should their team decide to spend more money.

  120. Wave Your Hat March 22nd, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    “Owners meddling results in Randy Johnson trade and other flights of fancy by people that do not know baseball.”

    No help for that given the way baseball organizations are structured. The person with final authority (the owner) is not the person with responsibility for day-to-day decision making (the GM). So there is a clear incentive for those who disagree with the GM to compete for influence.

  121. J. Alfred Prufrock March 22nd, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    blake March 22nd, 2012 at 11:53 am
    I wonder if Rothschild is one of those buck the system personalites…I have no idea but I have read that he likes to have pretty much total control of the pitching staff
    ///

    He’s a hired gun. He’s not going to be in vanilla mode here, and I don’t think they were after that when they took him on. I really, really like him so far.

    He did more with Chamberlain in two minutes than red face did his whole time with him.

  122. Rich in NJ March 22nd, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    “i also am saying cashman and the new york faction were important too to create the debate.
    that’s a given in my argument that the tampa faction was essential to yankee success.”

    The only Tampa faction I want in the Yankee debate is Andrew Friedman.

  123. blake March 22nd, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    “The only Tampa faction I want in the Yankee debate is Andrew Friedman.”

    Eh….maybe Moore, Price, Longo too ;)

  124. stuckey March 22nd, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    “If its no longer the biggest number and other teams decide to play at that level as well…..then has the Yankees advantage been marginalized?”

    IF that happens…

    Their inherent, regional advantage.

    Yes.

    It absolutely will.

  125. randy l. March 22nd, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    “Creative tension is good, but no clear line of decision making authority isn’t.”

    agree with that.

    george was the final decision maker in the old days.

    there are no two factions anymore and it’s the yankees loss.

  126. blake March 22nd, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    “It absolutely will.”

    So do you like that?

  127. Rich in NJ March 22nd, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    It could be a package deal, blake, with the acquisition of additional assets vesting over time as their contracts expire. ;)

  128. Jerkface March 22nd, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    Clete Boyer, ardent example of the Tampa Faction, was out of the Yankees by 95, 3 years before Cashman became GM. And before all the Tampa faction non-sense was around.

    Truly a trendsetter that guy.

  129. Erin March 22nd, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    pat March 22nd, 2012 at 11:58 am
    I love reading everyones opinion on things the first time.

    Reading it the 100th time is less thrilling.

    *****************

    This.

  130. Wave Your Hat March 22nd, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    randy-

    I also think it is received wisdom that (1) the foundation of the Yankee dynasty was put in place by Gene Michaels while George was out of baseball and (2) Cashman didn’t have much to do with putting the foundations of the dynasty together.

    My impression of what people call the “Tampa faction” were that they were cronies of George, and what people call the “New York faction” were those reporting to Cashman.

    My recollection is that we only began to hear about the “Tampa” and “New York” factions in the mid-2000s after the glory days of the dynasty.

  131. stuckey March 22nd, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    “I just want to start interrogating other teams fans to see if they’d be up in arms should their team decide to spend more money.”

    _________________

    Shame, you honestly don’t think BEING the team who already spends the most by a significant margin is contextually relevant?

    Comparing the Yankees forfeiting eight figures in revenue sharing rebate and paying a $.50 cent surcharge for every dollar they spend, and being a Pittsburgh Pirates fan and wanting your team spend a little more have practically NOTHING in common.

    Its this lack of recognition that the Yankees are already and will continue to operate in a stratosphere incomparable to most other teams is what’s most often lost in these “discussions.”

    As I always say – perspective.

  132. Erin March 22nd, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    LoHudYankees Because of last night’s rain, Sabathia’s minor league start moved to side field at big league complex. He’ll face the Yankees AA hitters.

  133. blake March 22nd, 2012 at 12:20 pm

    “Shame, you honestly don’t think BEING the team who already spends the most by a significant margin is contextually relevant?”

    But they may not be the team that spends the most money by 2014….they may be one of the teams tied at 189. Personally I think Boston will go to 189 in 2014……they are close to it now and if they can raise to that level and not be taxed my guess they will….

  134. stuckey March 22nd, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    “So do you like that?”

    I’m fine with it.

    “Yes” is a stronger word that suits my feelings, but I think it’s the one you’re looking for, so okay, there it is.

    I’m on record about this – I think it will make things more interesting. The minor league system will take on urgency that never really existed before. The offseasons will be about good decision making, rather than just identifying the obvious and outbidding.

    I think over time it will help improve the complacency that’s overtaken some factions of fans, who just want the new toy every offseason and get surly if they don’t get it.

    “28″, “29″ etc, will be more satisfying if earned in a MORE competitive environment.

    So yeah, I like it.

  135. Shame Spencer March 22nd, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    “Its this lack of recognition that the Yankees are already and will continue to operate in a stratosphere incomparable to most other teams is what’s most often lost in these “discussions.””

    But its not incomparable anymore. That’s the point and the point that you like about it, isnt it? Because you want to see there be a more level playing field, correct?

  136. Tar March 22nd, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    “The “controversy” over this trade is isolated and miniscule.”

    For now, patience young grasshopper.

  137. stuckey March 22nd, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    “But they may not be the team that spends the most money by 2014….they may be one of the teams tied at 189.”

    Okay, so Yankees will have to beat them like that have most of the last 100 years by being smarter and better run.

    That’s cool.

  138. stuckey March 22nd, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    “But its not incomparable anymore. That’s the point and the point that you like about it, isnt it? Because you want to see there be a more level playing field, correct?”

    Doesn’t change the fact it isn’t YET.

    I’ll say it again.

    Yankees payroll has been static for SEVEN years. They’ve haven’t significantly spent “more” since 2005.

    You people concerned over 2014 are 9 years late to the party.

  139. Sweet Swinging Cano March 22nd, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    I haven’t been around here in a while. I see some things never change lol

  140. m March 22nd, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    Debating dies make the blog better.

    Debating something new would make it even better.

  141. Sweet Swinging Cano March 22nd, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    Why are people so obsessed with the payroll in 2014? People don’t want financial intelligence? Hal never said he is going to be a cheapskate. Fans are spoiled, let me tell you.

  142. Wave Your Hat March 22nd, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    The new collective bargaining rules make Yankee salary reduction in 2014 inevitable. It is disadvantageous to the Yanks but that’s life. It is pointless to get mad about it.

  143. Sweet Swinging Cano March 22nd, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    The Yankees should have been smarter with A-Rod. Period.

  144. luis March 22nd, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    Hello everyone,

    Tar March 22nd, 2012 at 12:25 pm
    “The “controversy” over this trade is isolated and miniscule.”

    For now, patience young grasshopper.

    =======================

    Yes, master!! ;)

  145. Jerkface March 22nd, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    It is pointless to get mad about it.

    Pointless, or therapeutic?

  146. m March 22nd, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    Rosy is free to post what she wants.

    But I think those who really want to see what Montero does during the season will either stay up and watch him. Or look it up the next morning when they check on their other non-Yankee favorites/fantasy players.

  147. blake March 22nd, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    Stuckey,

    So you like it because it will make things more even and the Yanks will have to earn their championships more? Ok but that sounds more like Bud Selig’s position than a Yankee fans…….Im fine with it because its the reality of the situation…..but my reasons for being fine with it are different than yours.

  148. Sweet Swinging Cano March 22nd, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    If fans really think the Yankees will suffer so much. Then wow. I just don’t understand the logic.

  149. luis March 22nd, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    Wave Your Hat March 22nd, 2012 at 12:33 pm
    The new collective bargaining rules make Yankee salary reduction in 2014 inevitable. It is disadvantageous to the Yanks but that’s life. It is pointless to get mad about it.

    ===========================

    Wave,

    I was mad at the new CBA. I thought it had anti-Yankee bias written all over it. But i think everyone admits that those are the new rules that the team has to live with, and are suggesting ways to manage it more efficiently, like Blake´s suggestions of extending both Cano and Granderson right now.

  150. stuckey March 22nd, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    “Ok but that sounds more like Bud Selig’s position than a Yankee fans”

    That’s a pejorative way to spin it blake, by invoking Selig’s name. But it is in fact the position of the ENTIRE sports world.

  151. Jerkface March 22nd, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    That’s a pejorative way to spin it blake, by invoking Selig’s name. But it is in fact the position of the ENTIRE sports world.

    Well, not really.

  152. luis March 22nd, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    That’s a pejorative way to spin it blake, by invoking Selig’s name. But it is in fact the position of the ENTIRE sports world.

    =============================

    With a clear anti-Yankee bias.

  153. Hassey March 22nd, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    Hay demasiadas personas inteligentes aquí, así que este es ahora el menos divertido lugar para discutir de béisbol.

  154. stuckey March 22nd, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    Jerkface,

    Cornerstone of therapy is results.

    If we’re still in the therapeutic stage, then it isn’t working, and is therefore…

    …wait for it…

    Pointless.

  155. Jerkface March 22nd, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    If we’re still in the therapeutic stage, then it isn’t working, and is therefore…

    …wait for it…

    Pointless.

    Its a process. You have to trust the process.

  156. Jerkface March 22nd, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    Some people can be in therapy for years. I hope you’re prepared for that, overseer.

  157. stuckey March 22nd, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    With a clear anti-Yankee bias.
    __________

    Which is what Luis?

    Identify the bias for me?

  158. luis March 22nd, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    Hassey March 22nd, 2012 at 12:41 pm
    Hay demasiadas personas inteligentes aquí, así que este es ahora el menos divertido lugar para discutir de béisbol.

    ========================

    Al revés, discusiones inteligentes es lo que hace a este sitio tan especial.

  159. stuckey March 22nd, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    “Some people can be in therapy for years. I hope you’re prepared for that, overseer.”
    _________________

    If we’re okay belittling people with REAL, actual problems that may take years to address, to make a smug analogy about people endlessly complaining that the NY Yankees will no longer vastly outspend other teams, then yes, I concede your point.

  160. luis March 22nd, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    stuckey March 22nd, 2012 at 12:42 pm
    With a clear anti-Yankee bias.
    __________

    Which is what Luis?

    Identify the bias for me?

    ========================

    I´m not acusing you of having anti-Yankee bias, but the CBA was clearly structured to deprive the Yankees of every competitive advantage they had. If it the the opinion of the ENTIRE sports world as you say, they must have a clear bias against successful teams like the Yankees.

  161. blake March 22nd, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    “But it is in fact the position of the ENTIRE sports world.”

    Are you a Yankee fan?

  162. Hassey March 22nd, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    Luis – Especial, sí, pero no es divertido ..

  163. Jerkface March 22nd, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    It wasn’t smug, but who are you to decide when the therapeutic process has run its course. CLEARLY it bothers you at this point, but what can you do? Accept it like you’ve come to accept the Yankee payroll.

  164. luis March 22nd, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    Hassey March 22nd, 2012 at 12:48 pm
    Luis – Especial, sí, pero no es divertido ..

    ————————-

    Para mí lo es y mucho…..Pero entiendo que la discusión de temas en forma reiterativa a veces cansan.

  165. Shame Spencer March 22nd, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    “But it is in fact the position of the ENTIRE sports world.”
    ———————–

    Fair competition is overrated. Just ask Walmart.

  166. Ys Guy March 22nd, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    personally i like the new cba i think it makes the sport of baseball more competitive. and in the long run, more competition is good for baseball and what’s good for baseball is good for the yankees.

    jmo

    btw, the tebow hate on wfan today is off the charts!

  167. stuckey March 22nd, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    JF,

    I was being sarcastic and indirectly kind.

    Comparing whining on a forum about it day after day after day to “therapy” is a pretty brain-dead analogy.

  168. Ys Guy March 22nd, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    also i think the players were either asleep at the wheel or completely duped in the negotiations. they gave in on a defacto salary cap and blood testing for hgh in exchange for an extra day off after the ASG and balanced leagues.

  169. mick March 22nd, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    btw, the tebow hate on wfan today is off the charts!
    ==================
    as a long suffering jets fan i love the trade…they got tebow for NOTHING…sanchez is on their hit list and tebow is the heir apparent to a ground and pound offense…he’s also a winner…what’s not to like?

  170. Ys Guy March 22nd, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    i love tebow but their objection is that it cuts the legs out from under sanchez. i can see that, but im not a jets fan so why would i care.

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