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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Saturday notes: Garcia shows no rust in rotation return

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Notes on Mar 24, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Freddy Garcia could have made things easy for the Yankees this afternoon. Instead, he might have made things harder. Showing absolutely no rust in his first start back from a swollen right hand, Garcia pitched 4.1 scoreless innings with four strikeouts and two walks. The only hit he allowed was a comebacker — of course — that glanced off his leg.

“Freddy was great today,” Joe Girardi said, not even waiting for a reporter to ask him a question. “I mean, everything; slow curveball he used to get ahead in the count sometimes, located his fastball, his split was good, his backdoor slider was good. He had it all. We got him to 64 pitches, so I was very pleased.”

Garcia doesn’t have the longterm upside of Phil Hughes, Michael Pineda and Ivan Nova — which means the Yankees might choose to cut him out of the rotation regardless of results — but he’s been very sharp this spring. Garcia ERA is down to 2.92, and he’s looked very much like the guy who pitched so well for the Yankees last season.

“Last year, I signed a minor-league deal and came to spring training to earn a spot,” Garcia said. “Everything was harder for me because I had to come here and pitch really good and show them I can pitch in this league. (This winter) I signed early, but they signed guys and (Girardi) said he liked competition, and we’re in competition. I like that. It’s making my thinking straight. I concentrate better on what you’re doing.”

After last week’s hand injury — on a comebacker in Dunedin — Garcia might have fallen to the back of the pack, but he looked today as if he hadn’t missed a step. Whether you believe him or not, Girardi has said the Yankees will take their five best starting pitchers, and right now Garcia has been more consistent than anyone but Phil Hughes.

“I have to worry about myself and go out there and pitch,” Garcia said. “The way I pitched today, you know, I needed it.”

• Raul Ibanez’s two-run home run in the seventh inning not only gave the Yankees the lead, it also snapped him out of a hitless streak dating back to March 10. “It felt good to be able to make a left turn instead of a right turn,” Ibanez said.

• Ibanez credited extra work with Kevin Long. The two spent an extended session in the cage yesterday, and Ibanez said it paid off. “I felt like I was in a better position to hit,” he said. “And in a better position to take a good swing.”

• Because the Yankees are facing a left-handed starter tomorrow, Ibanez will go to the minor league complex to get at-bats. It’s not uncommon for big league hitters to leadoff every inning in minor league spring training games. They can often get more at-bats by hitting in multiple games. “I told him, as many (at-bats) as he wants,” Girardi said.

• Garcia was fine after being hit by a Jhonny Peralta comebacker in the third inning. He quickly dismissed the training staff and stayed in the game, but it was kind of freaky to see a pitcher hit in his first game back from a comebacker. “It happened to me twice,” Garcia sad. “But it’s nothing to worry about.”

• Francisco Cervelli was taken out of the game after being hit by a pitch in the seventh inning. “He’s fine, too,” Girardi said. “He just got hit in the calf. Well, the shin. He’ll be fine.”

• Dewayne Wise continued his strong spring training with a game-winning, two-run double in the 10th inning. The Yankees went into extras after the Tigers tied the game with two-runs in the ninth. Both runs came off D.J. Mitchell, who was pitching his third inning of work and seemed to lose the strike zone a little bit.

• Another strong showing for Cesar Cabral who had one strikeout in a hitless bottom of the 10th. The Rule 5 pick has 12 strikeouts and only one walk this spring.

• Justin Maxwell picked up his fourth stolen base of the spring as part of a double steal in the 10th inning. Maxwell stole third. … Jose Gil’s batting average is down to .563 after a 1-for-2 day. … Mark Teixeira and Colin Curtis also had hits today. … Boone Logan retired the two batters he faced, and Kevin Whelan retired the three batters he faced.

• Although Joba Chamberlain is being released from the hospital tomorrow, Girardi said he’s not sure when Chamberlain will stop by Yankees camp. Girardi expects Chamberlain to be in camp again at some point, but it might not happen right away. “He’s not capable of driving, so we might see him next week some time,” Girardi said. “It just depends what he wants to do.”

Associated Press photos

 
 

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124 Responses to “Saturday notes: Garcia shows no rust in rotation return”

  1. Crawdaddy March 24th, 2012 at 6:45 pm

    Cabral might make this roster.

  2. yankeefeminista March 24th, 2012 at 6:45 pm

    Chad says DJ may have lost the strike zone in 3rd inning of work. I forget, was that his longest outing?

  3. Crawdaddy March 24th, 2012 at 6:53 pm

    Yankeefem,

    Looks like it as he had 9 innings with four appearances prior to this game.

  4. Crawdaddy March 24th, 2012 at 6:54 pm

    I think one of those prior four appearances was three innings too.

  5. luis March 24th, 2012 at 6:55 pm

    I have been posting since around noon, so i wish you a very good night to all

  6. yankeefeminista March 24th, 2012 at 6:56 pm

    Craw, Thanks. I too thought he’d pitched 3 innings once before.

  7. yankeefeminista March 24th, 2012 at 6:57 pm

    Buenas noches, Luis. Please visit later if you are so inclined.

    Btw, DePaula turned 21 today (new birth certificate ;) )

  8. yankeefeminista March 24th, 2012 at 6:59 pm

    and Luis, good last post in previous thread.

  9. luis March 24th, 2012 at 7:00 pm

    yankeefeminista March 24th, 2012 at 6:57 pm

    Buenas noches, Luis. Please visit later if you are so inclined.

    Btw, DePaula turned 21 today (new birth certificate ;) )

    =========================

    Take care YF….:) i hope is for real this time. ;)

  10. luis March 24th, 2012 at 7:01 pm

    The birth certificate i mean. Thank you YF again GN

  11. yankeefeminista March 24th, 2012 at 7:03 pm

    luis, y tu! y yo tambien! :)

  12. Crawdaddy March 24th, 2012 at 7:03 pm

    Yankeefem,

    Mitchell pitched against Toronto on March 14th going three innings with no hits, no BB and 4 SO.

  13. tomingeorgia March 24th, 2012 at 7:21 pm

    GB7,
    Sorry I mixed up Pascuel and Ramos. Didn’t mean to drive you to the encyclopedia. It was off the top of my head that a pitcher challenged Mantle to a footrace.

  14. tomingeorgia March 24th, 2012 at 7:31 pm

    I hope Freddy makes it very, very tough on management. Either way, the Yankees win.

  15. Cashmoney March 24th, 2012 at 7:44 pm

    Just read about Joba… I was looking forward to his return this season but this obviously delays his timetable. I want to be mad about what happened but really it is just a shame it happened. NY have options in his absence; i am hoping he will get back and be effective this season. moving on…

  16. Bret The Hitman March 24th, 2012 at 7:45 pm

    It’s obvious the Yankees need to move two starting pitchers but I’m curious as to what their asking price is right now. I would think teams would be interested in Freddy Garcia but the price tag might be too high.

  17. BD (Boston Dave) March 24th, 2012 at 7:49 pm

    “It’s obvious the Yankees need to move two starting pitchers”

    ——–

    not yet….

    I’d really like them to hang tight as long as they can.

    Some team will need a starter and Garcia is a very good back of the rotation guy. I think they’ll end up getting a decent return the longer they can hang on to him.

    When Andy returns, they can reassess the situation. Injuries happen.

  18. Bret The Hitman March 24th, 2012 at 7:53 pm

    And now that the Reds lost their closer for all of 2012, would they be interested in Rafael Soriano at the deadline?

    The market for closers is always scarce at the deadline so I think R. Soriano can be moved. The addition of two more wild card teams and the absence of Joakim Sorian and Madson add to the scarcity and increase demand.

    I’m optimistic the Yankees can salary-dump R. Soriano.

  19. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 24th, 2012 at 7:53 pm

    Since the Yankees can’t move Freddy until June 16th, I don’t believe they are doing much right now. Unless they brought him into discussions and he gave permission to trade him immediately, it’s a moot issue. And since I’ve heard nothing but third person passive “stuff”, I disregard it.

    The Yankees do not need to move two starting pitchers. The Yankees don’t need to do anything this minute but wait and watch. They definitely need a spot starter in the pen so in reality they only need to find a home for one of their starters, whether it be AAA or to a new team.

    Nova can still go down if necessary. I don’t know what Phil’s exact situation is but I would believe that they can’t send him down anymore.

  20. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 24th, 2012 at 7:54 pm

    BD – bingo.

  21. Bret The Hitman March 24th, 2012 at 7:56 pm

    Well there’s also the question of is Garcia worth more as a long-man/spot starter vs. trading him as a starter. Right now the answer might be that he’s worth more out of the bullpen and as insurance.

  22. m March 24th, 2012 at 8:02 pm

    Sounds like a team player. Of course I’m sure he’d like to start, but he said he’d be willing to pitch out of the bullpen. And that he’d listen if Cashman came to him with a trade proposal.

    Ideally you want Pineda, Hughes, and Nova all pitching well. And to keep Freddie happy.

    Trisha,

    Hughes can be sent down as long as it’s out of ST. Once he hits the ML roster, his 5 year service clock kicks in and he can refuse the assignment.

  23. Jerkface March 24th, 2012 at 8:04 pm

    The problem is that the Yankees long man generally does not act like the spot starter due to infrequent use. Recall Noesi was passed over for spot starts despite being the long man out of the pen.

    When the time comes, it is more likely someone who has been on regular work in AAA will get the call.

  24. randy l. March 24th, 2012 at 8:04 pm

    “Actually, I think it’s me that drives you crazy since you’ve been trying to engage me in discussion all day long.”

    well, that’s interesting since i was pretty busy with other things today.

    i do like watching you try to be nice to other people to prove that you’re not the idiot.

    it’s a natural though comical by product of people at war.

    they tend to try to act nice to other people to prove they’re right .

    hey whatever works.

  25. m March 24th, 2012 at 8:04 pm

    The Hughes info is per Jerkface (I think).

  26. Jerkface March 24th, 2012 at 8:05 pm

    I’d trade Garcia with his permission and have the long man as Mitchell or someone.

  27. GreenBeret7 March 24th, 2012 at 8:05 pm

    TominGeorgia,

    Not an issue. No need for the encyclopedia. I read that story years ago in a couple of books.

  28. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 24th, 2012 at 8:07 pm

    Except that with the propensity for injuries, it’s likely that a 6th starter will see some time. Unless it gluts up the pen and there is someone in the ready in AAA, it’s best to carry a spot starter.

  29. m March 24th, 2012 at 8:07 pm

    JF,

    Me, too. And if they need a spot starter bring up one of the AAA guys.

  30. Jerkface March 24th, 2012 at 8:07 pm

    M,

    Hughes is at around 4.75 years of service time, so it will take around 1-2 months before he hits 5 years, but at that point he will lose the right to be optioned freely.

    Players with 5 years can refuse assignment. So if they are looking at him as someone to send down when Pettitte is ready that option might be lost to them.

    Honestly I think Hughes is with the team all year or traded, I don’t see him getting optioned when Pineda & Nova can be done so much more safely.

  31. randy l. March 24th, 2012 at 8:09 pm

    “Nova can still go down if necessary”

    if nova keeps getting sent down and keeps working on pitches he brings back up and succeeds with maybe the yankees will figure out that pitchers can learn things in the minors.

    maybe they’ll try it with pitchers that actually need it like pineda .

    though it wouldn’t hurt hughes either.

    if i had to send down one of three, i send pineda first, hughes second, and nova last.

    of course, nova is mentally probably the toughest so he’d be the one who’d handle it the best.

    that might be the worst reason for sending him down though.

  32. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 24th, 2012 at 8:10 pm

    I think Hughes is with the team, also, especially if he keeps pitching the way he has been pitching. He deserves to be with the team.

    Once again, at least right now, an embarrassment of riches!

  33. Jerkface March 24th, 2012 at 8:10 pm

    Except that with the propensity for injuries, it’s likely that a 6th starter will see some time. Unless it gluts up the pen and there is someone in the ready in AAA, it’s best to carry a spot starter

    History shows that the long man for the Yankees is not really a spot starter, but a true long man. The spot starts tend to go to a guy in AAA or not even on the team at the time. They have to be able to keep the long man stretched out. Else like Noesi/Mitre they end up getting passed over at a certain point. The irregular work makes it so that if you need the long man and then suddenly have to get a spot start, the long man is passed over.

    I’d rather put the long man as someone that can do his job.

  34. GreenBeret7 March 24th, 2012 at 8:12 pm

    Crawdaddy March 24th, 2012 at 5:54 pm
    Randy,

    Besides the trolls, you’re the biggest instigator on this blog so you giving blog etiquette suggestions is not only funny, but disingenuous BS.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    trust me on this, There are many a lot worse on here that are “regulars”. you know the ones…..those that try to get something going, then throw up their hands and yell, “Not me”, and then pretend to play peacemaker, there are those that has one goal and that’s to argue…about anything including the color of glass. They generally are the long winded blowhards that type walls of words and claim nobody knows as much about everything as they do. No need for names. They and everyone else knows who they are.

    No…Randy is hardly the big issue on here. For all I know, it’s me. I doubt it because I’m loved by the world and very humble and kind hearted.

  35. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 24th, 2012 at 8:12 pm

    I’m fine with a true long man. I also think that Freddy or any other starter could take that role.

  36. Jerkface March 24th, 2012 at 8:16 pm

    . I also think that Freddy or any other starter could take that role.

    I think the Yankees would lean towards Garcia in that role, but apparently he doesn’t warm up too quick which makes it less likely he can be used in that type of situation a long man is often called into it. Its tough life being a long man, worse than a short reliever and far worse than a starter.

  37. GreenBeret7 March 24th, 2012 at 8:16 pm

    color of ***grass***

  38. Betsy March 24th, 2012 at 8:16 pm

    Freddy’s just a very good pitcher; I hope he’ll get traded so he can start because I doubt he’s going to start here and he’s wasted in the pen

  39. Nick in SF March 24th, 2012 at 8:16 pm

    FYI, Walt Frazier is on Twitter. His name is WaltFrazier.

    “Pistons in town..will the knicks hit on all cylindars… dishin and swishin.. bounding and astounding…and velrco [sic] D- OH check out me!”

  40. m March 24th, 2012 at 8:18 pm

    Thanks, my fact checker. :)

    I don’t think Hughes will be sent down. 1) he’s going to make it tough 2)unfortunately he can transition to the bullpen 3) he’s making $3M to the minimum salary the other two are making 4) he’ll hit the 5-yr mark soon

    But if he is sent down, he can take it mentally. He’s fought his way back the other times he’s had obstacles. Phil is laid back, but tough as nails inside.

  41. GreenBeret7 March 24th, 2012 at 8:19 pm

    and velrco [sic] D- OH check out me!”

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    SIC = “spelled incorrectly”?

  42. Jerkface March 24th, 2012 at 8:24 pm

    Theres too many benefits to sending down Nova or Pineda over Hughes, so I can’t see Hughes getting sent down. Traded maybe but not optioned. They can avoid super two on Nova or Pineda by sending them down, and they both have options.

    Will be interesting to see what they do when Pettitte is ready, likely to be a tough choice.

  43. Nick in SF March 24th, 2012 at 8:25 pm

    sic = transcribed exactly, and in this case it means transcribed exactly and looks fishy to me.

    Walt had “cylinders” spelled correctly, however, and I typoed it incorrectly myself.

    Sick!

  44. RadioKev March 24th, 2012 at 8:27 pm

    Take the best five and keep moving, I say. Just don’t put any of our young major league starters in the pen. Push one of the other five AAA starters down, or put one of them in the pen as the long man.

  45. BD (Boston Dave) March 24th, 2012 at 8:27 pm

    “Theres too many benefits to sending down Nova or Pineda over Hughes”

    ——–

    I’m pretty sure you and I are the only ones who thus far have suggested taking advantage of that.

    Seems like a decent option, if push comes to shove, to me.

  46. Nick in SF March 24th, 2012 at 8:31 pm

    I posited sending Pineda down back in the infant days of The Trade That Rocked LoHud.

    Seems unlikely, but then again every option seems kind of unlikely when each of the current four competing for three spots seems like a worthy choice.

  47. m March 24th, 2012 at 8:31 pm

    This team has never cared about Super-2 status IIRC.

    If Pineda’s velocity drops off any, i can see a trip to AAA. I have no doubt that it will return eventually like Verlander’s did.

    It’s not that he can’t pitch effectively throwing in the low 90′s, I believe he can. But it would be a justifiable reason if Nova and Hughes are pitching well.

  48. Jerkface March 24th, 2012 at 8:31 pm

    I’m pretty sure you and I are the only ones who thus far have suggested taking advantage of that.

    Well I think most people are looking at it purely as a talent thing, which in years past has been the Yankees advantage to ignore all else. Now that has to change, and it would be quite attractive to gain an extra year of control on Nova or Pineda and push back their arbitration so they are first year arb eligible in 2014 rather than 2nd year arb elig. Plus its only for a month or two and you possibly gain a lot from Garcia pitching well and being available for a trade.

  49. BD (Boston Dave) March 24th, 2012 at 8:33 pm

    Already looking ahead to the opening series, perhaps it’s a good thing the Rays are pushing Matt Moore into the 4th spot.

    Hellickson (slated to pitch 3rd) is getting shelled in ST…

    “Jeremy Hellickson gave up 10 runs and 11 hits in three innings against the Twins on Saturday… He’s given up 17 runs and 20 hits in 10 innings this month. ”

    Yeah, I know it’s ST… but I still want to face Moore as little as possible.

  50. tomingeorgia March 24th, 2012 at 8:33 pm

    Anybody remember last year at this time? Too many starters is an odd situation for the Yanks and the fans. Those who say wait and see, I agree. I liked signing off the scrap heap last year, this year there’s an opposite problem. Just hope they choose as wisely this year.

  51. randy l. March 24th, 2012 at 8:34 pm

    pineda’s velocity is not the problem.

    developing a third pitch is the problem.

    if he has a good third pitch( not a token mediocre third pitch) he won’t need to throw 97.

  52. GreenBeret7 March 24th, 2012 at 8:36 pm

    Nick in SF March 24th, 2012 at 8:25 pm
    sic = transcribed exactly, and in this case it means transcribed exactly and looks fishy to me.

    Walt had “cylinders” spelled correctly, however, and I typoed it incorrectly myself.

    Sick!

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Just an on-going joke left over from WCDB days when he’d have a typo and correct it using “SIC” with the correct spelling.

  53. Nick in SF March 24th, 2012 at 8:36 pm

    “This team has never cared about Super-2 status IIRC.”

    I think it was a factor in having Gustavo Molina up to start last season instead of Montero, but it might have been more the Yankees caring about Montero’s Super-2 status on behalf of his eventual team rather than for themselves.

    Plus the whole not-trusting-him-to-catch thing, of course. But we talked about all that a year ago.

  54. Jerkface March 24th, 2012 at 8:37 pm

    pineda’s velocity is not the problem.

    developing a third pitch is the problem.

    if he has a good third pitch( not a token mediocre third pitch) he won’t need to throw 97.

    Velocity is a concern if it doesn’t improve. Pitchers might not ‘need velocity’, but having it is better than not having it and Pineda showed he had control at 95+ which is very, very rare and a reason he was traded for. Losing it can bring physical concerns and lowers his ceiling as a pitcher. It is very much something to pay attention too. No one should just be ambivalent about a loss of 3+ mph on average.

    Luckily his secondary stuff is looking good enough in spring and he is slowly building up the arm strength that it might not matter from a results stand point.

  55. Nick in SF March 24th, 2012 at 8:38 pm

    WCYF would misspell “sic” as “sick” :grin:

  56. BD (Boston Dave) March 24th, 2012 at 8:39 pm

    “Plus its only for a month or two and you possibly gain a lot from Garcia pitching well and being available for a trade”

    ————

    yup.

    Frankly, the difference between Garcia for 6 weeks and either Nova or Pineda might not be much if anything at all (in terms of performance.)

    Yet, as you said, it could give the Yanks an extra year of control for either of those two.

    And then it buys them extra time to make a trade (if a starter on another team gets hurt and they are willing to pay up for Freddy), if necessary.

  57. blake March 24th, 2012 at 8:40 pm

    I think Hellickson is good…..I don’t think he’s a frontline guy….and I do t think he will be as good this year as he was last.

    Im not saying they should do this…..but they wouldn’t have to send Pineda down for very long to get an entire additional year of control on him……it’d give him a little more development time with the CU as well……you have to weight that stuff vs what it would do to him mentally etc…..and they would know more about that than I.

  58. m March 24th, 2012 at 8:41 pm

    Well, Pineda could be sent down to “work” on his tertiary pitch if you prefer.

    But I’m sure the Yankees like the progress if his other pitches and will want to solve the mystery if the missing MPHs.

  59. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 24th, 2012 at 8:42 pm

    It’s all good. However it happens works for me. I can see wisdom in so many of the possible moves, and for a variety of reasons. It doesn’t matter to me if someone goes down to AAA, even for reasons that just eventually benefit the Yanks – so long as some benefit also accrues to the pitcher.

    I’m content to wait and watch. Actually, what choice do I have?

    :)

  60. blake March 24th, 2012 at 8:43 pm

    I would be more worried about Pineda if his slider didn’t look so good…..I really think he just didn’t do anything all winter and he’s just now getting into shape…..whether that’s right or wrong is another topic ……but I much prefer it to him being hurt or something……the fact that he’s incrementally getting stronger each outing is good.

  61. blake March 24th, 2012 at 8:44 pm

    I also don’t think Shields will be as good as he was last year again…..

  62. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 24th, 2012 at 8:45 pm

    I’m confident that Pineda will have both his pitches and his velocity. It’s certainly going in the right direction.

    If he goes to AAA, it’s just more practice time for him. Not a bad thing.

    Wait and watch, watch and wait.

  63. Jerkface March 24th, 2012 at 8:46 pm

    I also don’t think Shields will be as good as he was last year again…..

    Both will be hard pressed to repeat it I think. The issue is that Price and Moore might crush the entire league together.

  64. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 24th, 2012 at 8:47 pm

    “the fact that he’s incrementally getting stronger each outing is good.”

    Yup.

    He has some pitches that are pretty unhittable.

  65. RadioKev March 24th, 2012 at 8:48 pm

    I think the guy that pitches the worst of the four gets the boot. Not that hard to explain, I’d like to think any of these guys are mature enough to understand that.

  66. Villa Nova-Ya March 24th, 2012 at 8:48 pm

    I read up on Verlander’s down year the other day. Apparently, his velocity was not the issue with him. I think I recall reading it had more to do with inconsistent mechanics in terms of release point. I’ll see if I can find the article again.

  67. RadioKev March 24th, 2012 at 8:49 pm

    Villa Nova-Ya March 24th, 2012 at 8:48 pm
    I read up on Verlander’s down year the other day. Apparently, his velocity was not the issue with him. I think I recall reading it had more to do with inconsistent mechanics in terms of release point. I’ll see if I can find the article again.
    ———

    Yup, that’s the case.

  68. m March 24th, 2012 at 8:51 pm

    VNY,

    Thanks. I will stop using Verlander as a comp.

  69. blake March 24th, 2012 at 8:52 pm

    “The issue is that Price and Moore might crush the entire league together.”

    yes. I would except Price to be better than he was last year (even though he was better than people think last year)….and I would expect Moore to be better than Davis or Niemann or whoever gets booted out …..so it’ll probably even out to about the same…..still a really really good rotation 1-5.

  70. BD (Boston Dave) March 24th, 2012 at 8:53 pm

    Pineda is fine. I’m sure he’d be alright and do well starting out in the rotation.

    But….

    a) he could use 4-6 weeks in AAA to get in better shape and also work on perfecting the changeup

    b) the Yankees could gain an extra year of Pineda by putting him in the minors for a short period of time

    c) he’s still a young guy and after he slowed in the 2nd half last season… maybe starting out slow (and making sure he’s in good shape) will help him stay strong through September and October

    d) somebody has to go to make room anyway – Garcia is showing no signs of not being ready. Will Garcia do any worse than Pineda for 6 weeks or so? maybe not.

    just something to think about. it’s hard to advocate anything specific yet.

  71. Jerkface March 24th, 2012 at 8:53 pm

    Verlander’s velocity was only off by 1 mph on average. Pineda is still ~3 mph off and hasn’t even gotten near his max he reached last year. Its not really about sitting 97 mph as some like to claim, but the ability to reach up to that speed without overexertion.

    Cashman could be right and he is just out of shape, thats sub-optimal and probably a good reason to option him down so he can ramp up in a controlled manner.

  72. GreenBeret7 March 24th, 2012 at 8:53 pm

    Matt Bush has bail set at over $1 mil on the hit and run DUI after hitting a motorcyclist.

  73. Villa Nova-Ya March 24th, 2012 at 8:54 pm

    Well, not exactly an article. But it did fish out the stats, and it basically came to the conclusion that verlander was more unlucky than anything. But the major point being he didn’t lose average velocity.

    http://www.immaculateinning.co.....ander.html

  74. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 24th, 2012 at 8:54 pm

    “it’s hard to advocate anything specific yet.”

    Absolutely correct.

    W2.

    Wait and watch.

  75. Jerkface March 24th, 2012 at 8:55 pm

    matt bush is by far the biggest bust in history, considering the manner in which he as busted (a disgusting criminal act)

  76. RadioKev March 24th, 2012 at 8:55 pm

    Anyone know how the guys traded in the Garza deal are doing? We know about Sam Fuld..

    Imagine if Garza was still on the team..

  77. blake March 24th, 2012 at 8:56 pm

    BD,

    yea there are certainly some reasons to consider starting Pineda off at AAA….I think you’d have to know how it may affect him mentally….you’d have to consider that the Empire State Yankees are going to be on the road the entire time…..and also you’d have to consider that if you do that….Pettite will be ready around about the same time as you’d probably want to bring Pineda up….so you may have to find 2 spots in the rotation not just one….so I don’t know….it’s something to think about though.

  78. Villa Nova-Ya March 24th, 2012 at 8:56 pm

    m -

    The reason I looked him up was because I was trying to compare Pineda. :)

    But here’s the thing – this is ST. Pineda could be fine once the season starts.

  79. Bret The Hitman March 24th, 2012 at 8:56 pm

    I think we can all agree that obviously Pettitte will start the year in the minors and therefore there is only one decision to make – trade Freddy Garcia or stash him in the pen as insurance. He does not need to be stretched out.

    I think we can also agree that Hughes starts the year as the 5th starter.

    So barring injury, when Pettitte returns, Garcia will be in the pen and Hughes will be the 5th starter. At that point, you gain nothing (i.e. extra service time) by demoting Pineda or Nova. And by the time Pettitte returns, Pineda should have his velocity and Nova should be the same guy we saw pitch in 2011.

    My thinking is, if Pettitte returns, Hughes is the guy they would move in a trade before bringing back Pettitte. There is no rush to bring back Pettitte as he will last longer into the season if he is kept in the minors until a favorable deal can be worked out.

    I say Hughes goes for Chase Headley and that’s the reason why they passed on Damon. Ibanez is easier to oust when Headley arrives.

    imho

  80. BD (Boston Dave) March 24th, 2012 at 8:58 pm

    “Anyone know how the guys traded in the Garza deal are doing?”

    ———

    hak ju lee and chris archer are perhaps the Rays top two prospects now that Moore is up for good.

  81. Jerkface March 24th, 2012 at 8:59 pm

    Anyone know how the guys traded in the Garza deal are doing?

    Hak Ju Lee is pretty good. Still expected to stick at ss and a top 50 prospect going into 2012. The catcher and OFer they got outside of Sam Fuld both got some time last year and probably will this year and ought to provide some value.

    Lee will be the biggest part of that deal I expect, if he makes it. AA this year, so 1.5-2 years away at best.

    The big pitcher they got Archer has control problems.

  82. BD (Boston Dave) March 24th, 2012 at 9:00 pm

    blake,

    I agree. It’s not something that should be done without much thought.

    but there are obvious benefits.

    are there any benefits to putting Hughes in the pen? or trading Garcia if it’s a salary dump?

    gonna be a tough call.

  83. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 24th, 2012 at 9:01 pm

    I think Pineda is ready to start right now. He’s only going to get better.

    However, the braintrust will have to look at all alternatives and pick the best. I think they’re up to the task.

    Night all!

    :)

  84. Jerkface March 24th, 2012 at 9:02 pm

    and therefore there is only one decision to make – trade Freddy Garcia or stash him in the pen as insurance. He does not need to be stretched out.

    I think we can also agree that Hughes starts the year as the 5th starter.

    These are two big assumptions that are at odds with the benefits of putting one of Nova / Pineda in the minors to start the season. There isn’t really one decision to make.

  85. RadioKev March 24th, 2012 at 9:04 pm

    are there any benefits to putting Hughes in the pen?
    ———–

    I don’t. He has way more value to the team as a starter, or a trade chip. The pen seems like a poor compromise when he’s pitching this well.

    No point in pushing Garcia out if he’s actually out pitching some guys. I like Nova, I like Pineda, but make those guys sweat too. Incentive is a powerful tool.

  86. Villa Nova-Ya March 24th, 2012 at 9:04 pm

    I’m at the point where I don’t really care who they send to AAA. It’s a numbers game. There are worse things to have happen, and you make the best of it. Personally if they send someone down it’ll be between Nova and Pineda, with Nova being the one, as of this date, who’s been the least consistent, by a skoosh.

    They’re not going to make a trade just to make a trade; they are certainly not going to make a trade before they see if Pettitte can actually do this. Remember, in 2010, he was rolling along, having one of the best seasons of his career, feeling very healthy, when he pulled his groin. And the healing was very, very slow. Slower than Pettitte himself thought it would be – because he is not a spring chicken in baseball years.

    It would be foolish and premature for the Yankees to trade anyone.

    And besides the point, I don’t see a glaring need for anything else as of right now.

  87. blake March 24th, 2012 at 9:04 pm

    “are there any benefits to putting Hughes in the pen?”

    zero

  88. randy l. March 24th, 2012 at 9:05 pm

    “Its not really about sitting 97 mph as some like to claim, but the ability to reach up to that speed without overexertion.”

    actually, i believe a pitcher’s ability to attain maximum effort is what drives velocity increases.

    the only way to throw fast is to throw fast.

    totally engaging all relevant neurons for a split second is what allows a human being to throw fast.

    it’s a ready , set , go mechanism that is hard wired in the human body.

    i believe if a pitcher always leaves a little on the table he’ll slowly decline in velocity.

    i believe pitchers have to throw as fast as they possibly can if they are going to maintain a high velocity.

  89. Bret The Hitman March 24th, 2012 at 9:05 pm

    Jerkface,

    Then basically you are saying that Garcia is a threat to take the place of Nova or Pineda to start the season.

    I can’t see that at all.

    If they can’t trade him for more value than an insurance starter (something they probably value since Pettitte had the 1-year layoff) then he starts the year in the pen as insurance. He does not need to be stretched out.

  90. Jerkface March 24th, 2012 at 9:08 pm

    Then basically you are saying that Garcia is a threat to take the place of Nova or Pineda to start the season.

    You’re categorizing it as a threat but its not. It would be in the best interests of the Yankees long term goals, goals which they have publicly stated are on their mind.

  91. RadioKev March 24th, 2012 at 9:08 pm

    i believe if a pitcher always leaves a little on the table he’ll slowly decline in velocity.
    ——-

    Pitchers slowly decline in velocity anyway, as they age past their prime… CC and Verlander are both guys that leave “a little on the table” and they don’t seem to have dropped in velocity.

  92. Jerkface March 24th, 2012 at 9:09 pm

    And aren’t you falling into the absolutist trap you railed against earlier? :twisted:

  93. Bret The Hitman March 24th, 2012 at 9:09 pm

    Jerkface,

    There is just no way in bloody hell Freddy Garcia starts the year in the rotation over Pineda or Nova. Garcia can be put in the pen. The Yankees have no long-term investment in him. The others are ready to be developed on the major league level and Freddy Garcia won’t cost them a major league job. I know that’s probably what you want to see happen but it won’t happen.

  94. Bret The Hitman March 24th, 2012 at 9:10 pm

    imho

  95. Pat M. March 24th, 2012 at 9:10 pm

    If Pettite is indeed able to pitch in the Bigs, they’ll trade Garcia and Nova is the odd man out…..He’ll either be the spot starter or he could be sent back to AAA…..Right now only CC and Kuroda should be 200 inning starters……Hughes and Pineda could be skipped every 5 th start or so to conserve their arms…….

  96. Jerkface March 24th, 2012 at 9:11 pm

    They will probably end up trading Garcia, because he doesn’t make a very good long man from most analyst’s estimations. I think that has a high probability of occurring, but they don’t have to rush into one when they can send nova or pineda down for a month, get an extra year of control AND move back arbitration dates, while shopping Garcia over the first few months.

  97. RadioKev March 24th, 2012 at 9:11 pm

    Bret,

    Many writers have pointed out Freddy does/may not not warm up quickly. He’s not similar to Colon in that way..

  98. Nick in SF March 24th, 2012 at 9:13 pm

    One of the reasons/excuses given to pick Garcia over Colon a year ago (after Colon’s torrid ST) is that Garcia didn’t warm up quickly enough to come out of the bullpen.

  99. RadioKev March 24th, 2012 at 9:13 pm

    I think that has a high probability of occurring, but they don’t have to rush into one when they can send nova or pineda down for a month, get an extra year of control AND move back arbitration dates, while shopping Garcia over the first few months.
    ———–

    Yeah, I totally agree that this is the most likely way forward. They’ll wait on Pettitte, see how everyone is pitching, and make their decisions from there. Garcia’s value could be on the rise, if he goes about proving last season wasn’t flukey.

  100. Bret The Hitman March 24th, 2012 at 9:15 pm

    I strongly feel if you’re banking on Nova or Pineda starting the year in AAA you’re going to be disappointed. It’s much more probable (imho) that Garcia starts the year in the pen.

  101. randy l. March 24th, 2012 at 9:16 pm

    pat m-

    i think nova is a better pitcher than either pineda or hughes right now.

    pineda has a higher ceiling,but pineda has that inner toughness that makes a yankee a yankee.

    pineda may get it. he may not. we’re going to see really soon.

    it comes and goes with hughes.

  102. blake March 24th, 2012 at 9:16 pm

    If Nova becomes the odd man out (and I’m not convinced that he will be at all) then they should look to trade him for a bat rather than send him back down or to the bullpen….

  103. Nick in SF March 24th, 2012 at 9:17 pm

    I think it’s more likely that Garcia gets traded before he starts the year in the pen, but nothing would really surprise me at this point… it’s CC and Kuroda for sure and then who the heck knows.

  104. blake March 24th, 2012 at 9:18 pm

    I like Nova and I think he could be a solid rotation piece for the Yanks long term if he’s given the chance and is given the opportunity to work past struggles when/if they come…..he’s not a front of the rotation guy….but good mid rotation guy is possible and those are really valuable too.

  105. RadioKev March 24th, 2012 at 9:19 pm

    it comes and goes with hughes.
    ———–

    Randy L,

    And Nova’s sample size is small and also inconsistent. Not sure how that works in his favor and against Hughes’.

    And Blake,

    I’ll be surprised if anyone is traded before we know what we have in Pettitte.

  106. blake March 24th, 2012 at 9:20 pm

    “I’ll be surprised if anyone is traded before we know what we have in Pettitte.”

    sure….I was basically saying that I don’t think they should take Nova out of the rotation.

  107. Bret The Hitman March 24th, 2012 at 9:20 pm

    Nick in SF,

    I think we’re going to learn a great deal by what happens with Garcia. If they do trade him then things will be interesting when Pettitte returns. If they start him in the pen, I think it’s obvious what happens when Pettitte is ready. As I said, by then Pineda should have his velocity and Nova should be the same guy we saw in 2011. Hughes would be the guy on the hot seat. I think he is.

  108. blake March 24th, 2012 at 9:22 pm

    I’m watching the playback of the Phillies game from yesterday because I didn’t get to see it….Kuroda is fun to watch pitch…he works fast and throws lots of strikes…..he clearly has a good idea of what he’s doing out there.

  109. RadioKev March 24th, 2012 at 9:22 pm

    There’s a very real possibility Garcia turns in a better year than Pettitte.

  110. Villa Nova-Ya March 24th, 2012 at 9:22 pm

    Nick in SF -

    Yup. :)

    Who knows what the Yankees are thinking???

  111. Nick in SF March 24th, 2012 at 9:23 pm

    Somebody and Garcia are probably on some type of hot seat, but starting Freddy and putting one of Nova, Pineda, and Hughes down in AAA to start the season kicks the can down the road a bit while something else could shake out (injury, Pettitte not looking great, etc.).

    Freddy as long man would accomplish this too, but I think he’s a better trade chip if he’s starting and pitching well.

  112. blake March 24th, 2012 at 9:24 pm

    “There’s a very real possibility Garcia turns in a better year than Pettitte.”

    because he’ll probably be pitching in the NL ;)

  113. Nick in SF March 24th, 2012 at 9:26 pm

    Woo hoo OSU! I’m going to pass about half the people in my tourney pool with these points… but still won’t be enough to win. :(

  114. Bret The Hitman March 24th, 2012 at 9:28 pm

    I would not be quick to trade Garcia for a reliever prospect. I think he has value as an insurance starter considering pettitte’s layoff. I honestly suspect that the Yankees want to hold Garcia and this whole notion of the Yankees shopping Garcia and getting rejected by the Marlins was planned. The Yankees don’t typically beg other teams to take their players only to have the rejection publicized. I think they’re shopping Garcia as a front to mask their motivation to move Hughes. I think they want to act like the last thing on their minds is to move Hughes…it’s posturing. Just seems sloppy the Yankees would shop Garcia in public only to miscalculate and be rejected in public. Privately, something else is going on imho

  115. randy l. March 24th, 2012 at 9:30 pm

    “And Nova’s sample size is small and also inconsistent.”

    no more than pineda’s , and nova has pitched for the yankees which is very different than pitching for a last place team.

  116. RadioKev March 24th, 2012 at 9:36 pm

    randy l. March 24th, 2012 at 9:30 pm
    “And Nova’s sample size is small and also inconsistent.”

    no more than pineda’s , and nova has pitched for the yankees which is very different than pitching for a last place team.
    ———

    You said “it comes and goes with Hughes,” as your reason that Nova is a better pitcher.

    I don’t think the Yankees know what they have in Nova, I honestly believe they can rely on Hughes more. Nova could still regress and the league knows him better. Hughes’ at this point is closer to a finished product. Chalk that up to experience alone, but I think it stands.

  117. Ys Guy March 24th, 2012 at 9:37 pm

    knicks pulling away. chandler put them on his back and wasn’t going to let them drop this one tonight!

  118. Bret The Hitman March 24th, 2012 at 9:44 pm

    My suspicion is that the Yankees are not shopping Freddy Garcia in good faith. It’s great that he has publicly stated he’s willing to pitch out of the bullpen because that’s where he’s headed to start the year imho.

    So by the time Pettitte is ready, there is nothing to gain by demoting Nova or Pineda.

  119. Jerkface March 24th, 2012 at 9:48 pm

    So by the time Pettitte is ready, there is nothing to gain by demoting Nova or Pineda.

    Which is why one would be demoted out of spring.

  120. m March 24th, 2012 at 9:49 pm

    I don’t see the point of trading Hughes, Nova, or Pineda.

    Kuroda and Garcia are likely not back. Who knows with Pettitte.

    Keep the 3 young guns.

  121. Pat M. March 24th, 2012 at 9:49 pm

    Tin Cup…..I think that The Yankee Front Office view both Hughes & Pineda has front end rotation guys, and as much as I like Nova he doesn’t pan out to that level……Just an opinion, but guys can put wood on the ball against him at a higher rate than Hughes and Pineda……I think he’s slotted as a spot starter in 2012 and as I mentioned maybe he gets his starts as the other tow are skipped and rested by way of side / simulated outings……

  122. Jerkface March 24th, 2012 at 9:49 pm

    And of course there would be something to gain by demoting one of them midseason. To work on something if they are faltering and you still gain the monetary and service time benefits of doing so.

  123. Stoneburner March 24th, 2012 at 9:51 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....e=youtu.be

  124. austinmac March 24th, 2012 at 10:39 pm

    Garcia will not bring a true prospect back in my opinion. His trade would be salary and headache relief.


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