Spring training Game 24: Yankees vs. Tigers
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Gameday Thread on Mar 25, 2012 
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YANKEES (13-9-1)
Derek Jeter SS
Curtis Granderson CF
Robinson Cano 2B
Alex Rodriguez 3B
Mark Teixeira 1B
Russell Martin C
Andruw Jones DH
Eduardo Nunez RF
Brett Gardner LF
RHP Michael Pineda (1-0, 3.97)
Pineda vs. Tigers
TIGERS (14-4-3)
Austin Jackson CF
Ramon Santiago SS
Clete Thomas RF
Alex Avila C
Delmon Young DH
Ryan Strieby 1B
Brandon Inge 2B
Quintin Berry LF
Danny Worth 3B
LHP Duane Below (1-0, 5.19)
Below vs. Yankees
TIME/TV: 1:05 p.m., YES Network
WEATHER: It rained last night, but so far so good today. Same as usual, temperatures in the low 80s with a little bit of wind blowing left to right.
UMPIRES: HP Mark Lollo, 1B Mark Wegner, 2B Mike Estabrook, 3B Chris Ward
TIGERS PEN: After Below, the Tigers are scheduled to pitch RHP Collin Balester, RHP Luis Marte and RHP Brayan Villarreal
REMATCH: The Yankees and Tigers played in Lakeland yesterday. The Tigers rallied to tie in the bottom of the ninth, and the Yankees regained the lead in the top of the 10th. The Yankees are undefeated in this past six games (5-0-1).
THE CLOSER RETURNS: Another scheduled outing for Mariano Rivera. He hasn’t allowed an earned run in spring training since March 15, 2008, a span of 26 innings.
SINGLETON HONORED: On Saturday, YES announcer Ken Singleton was honored with the “Denzel Lifetime Achievement Award in Sports” by the Boys & Girls Club of Mount Vernon. Denzel Washington presented the award. Washington and Singleton are each from Mount Vernon and alumni of the Boys & Girls Club.
UPDATE, 1:14 p.m.: Not a perfect throw from Gardner, but it’s enough to get Austin Jackson out at the plate and end the top of the first. Martin caught the ball just up the first-base line and moved quickly to apply the tag. Probably a bad send by the Tigers, testing Gardner who’s a better thrower than he gets credit for being.
UPDATE, 1:18 p.m.: Jeter goes deep to leadoff the bottom of the first inning. That’s his first homer of the spring in his second game back from a tender calf muscle.
UPDATE, 1:59 p.m.: Pineda’s fastball is sitting at 91 mph and he just allowed an RBI triple to tie the game in the third inning. The Yankees keep saying they’re not worried about Pineda’s velocity, but it’s getting late into spring training and it really hasn’t taken a significant leap to where it was last season.
UPDATE, 2:08 p.m.: Jeter’s leadoff double gets stranded in the third inning and it’s still 1-1.
UPDATE, 2:53 p.m.: Watch out! Martin nearly takes a fastball to the face, but drops out of the way just in time.
UPDATE, 3:03 p.m.: Rivera strands a runner at third base and his scoreless spring training streak remains intact. It’s still 1-1 in the middle of the sixth.
How far is Mount Vernon from Yankees Stadium, 5-10 miles or less?
nuney in RF? more to come?
88mph on the YES gun
let the talk start
pitch count may be a problem for pineda with learning to throw the change.
it’s just part of the process though.
88mph on the YES gun
let the talk start
—————————
and rightly so.
Nice throw by Gardner.
it’s just part of the process though.
—————————————————-
Is this Cashman?
:
C ya!
That’s my Boy of Summer!
bd-
does the velocity bother you?
it doesn’t bother me.
i’m actually impressed that pineda is not over throwing trying to quiet the issue.
Jeter!
vinny-b,
Pineda didn’t look too sharp that inning. He didn’t in the 1st last game either before settling in, though.
Let’s see how he looks in the 2nd.
I still don’t know why it’s hypocrisy to think Pineda might benefit from a month or so in AAA (which, again, would give the Yankees an extra YEAR of control over him – 2017) to get in shape, get the fastball speed up, and develop that change.
Like I said, he’s still done quite while after the 1st inning in some games so far. Hopefully he makes the adjustment – again.
Now, that was a great jump.
randy,
well, it bothers me a little bit – but I agree – I’d rather he just pitched and not let the outside noise bother him.
He didn’t exactly command the fastball that inning either though.
But it was one inning.
I’ve held out until now but I am officially worried about Pineda’s velocity.
89-91MPH wasn’t what we traded for.
DP, good to see.
yankeefeminista March 25th, 2012 at 1:29 pm
DP, good to see.
///
That was Betances like, minus the line drives.
Nice bit of reflexice fielding there.
the met’s matt harvey might become a great mlb pitcher but today, the nats are lighting him up like a christmas tree. 2 doubles, 3 homers in the first inning, so far…
*reflexive
“DP, good to see.”
a pitcher’s best friend.
that got his pitch count back in line.
good fielding by pineda too.
i’m just watching for him to be working on the change up.
i don’t care about the fastball or if he gets hit hard.
Well, Pineda certainly looks better than Below.
Other than the Grandy K every guy has smoked the ball off him so far.
“i don’t care about the fastball or if he gets hit hard.”
Well thats good because his FB is not very good at all so far. Last inning an outside FB pulled threw the hole on the left side by Stribly, not good.
“Well, Pineda certainly looks better than Below.”
———-
the Tigers lineup sans Cabrera and Fielder doens’t look quite as good.
Pineda can make adjustments and improve. That’s what I hope to see.
Pruf, Pineda had higher LD % in minors, as well.
Randy, agree about the change in the bigger picture, but you’d hope he’d command the fastball especially with the lower velo.
Nunez probably has no idea how important his bat could prove to be to this offense.
Pineda can make adjustments and improve. That’s what I hope to see.
_____
Yep, it’s still early right now.
Was that a strike?
Pineda can make adjustments and improve. That’s what I hope to see.
——————-
Yea, I mean I am certainly not giving up on Pineda in spring training (and @ any point in this season for that matter due to his age and potential) but there is no way of denying that the lack of velocity is concerning whether he is working on his change up or not.
“Pineda can make adjustments and improve. That’s what I hope to see.”
I see things the opposite way. Making adjustments and working on his CU are givens in my book. Lack of a decent FB is starting to concern me as being indicative of a physical issue.
yankeefeminista March 25th, 2012 at 1:39 pm
Pruf, Pineda had higher LD % in minors, as well.
///
Doesn’t everyone?
.
pkyankfan69
Great minds huh
“Randy, agree about the change in the bigger picture, but you’d hope he’d command the fastball especially with the lower velo.”
yankeefeminista-
i have always said that pineda would have trouble doing a crash course with the change because learning new things bleeds into old things.
it’s a back and forth process that takes time usually.
it’s vey hard to learn or improve something without that process affecting what you used to do.
pineda can get a plus change, but he’ll pay a price for it. there’s no way to get around that.
Coming into camp out of shape didn’t help any. I’m absolutely not worried about Pineda and I think he’s going to be great, but I wasn’t happy when Damon and Abreu came to came overweight, nor when Joba or Phil did – and thrilled about Pineda. Everything I’ve read about him and heard from him, though, shows he has a great atittude, so I’m sure he’ll learn from this.
He might have an innings issue this year like Phil did last year, so for a young pitcher, perhaps it’s just a rite of passage that he needs to get through. I’m sure he’s fine physically.
::::: “DP, good to see.”
a pitcher’s best friend.
that got his pitch count back in line. :::::
As did the singles on two pitches
***
Anyone that uses At Bat notice that sometimes it displays the pitch type and velocity and sometimes it doesn’t? Wonder why the inconsistency…
“Lack of a decent FB is starting to concern me as being indicative of a physical issue.”
———
well, the issue last game and for parts of this game seemed to be his left shoulder opening up.
the fastball velocity is a concern but if it’s not an injury, then you’d think it would start to return as he gets in shape (he’s still seemingly overweight)
For the past week or so I’ve been advocating starting him in AAA and there are multiple benefits to this – for one – they’d gain an extra full year of control over him for just 4-6 weeks in the minors… and they have the pitching right now to allow for it.
“pineda can get a plus change, but he’ll pay a price for it. there’s no way to get around that.”
3 plus mph off his FB?
Matt Scherzer is not worth Montero.
there’s little doubt to me that the Yankees made the trade for Pineda to be a #1/#2 starter.
they decided that to move deep into the playoffs they needed two top starters.
if letting Pineda develop in the minors (get in shape and work on his CU) is going to accelerate his timetable for being a solid #2…
… isn’t that better than having him as a #4 or #5 for 4-6 weeks on the team (when they have Garcia who can fill that role and possibly match or exceed the production – also building his trade value) ?
the question then is, will 4-6 weeks in the minors benefit Pineda?
How’d the last changeup look? Missed it.
Put Pineda in the minors to start the year.
Showing up fat and throwing 10 mph less than he was last year is not what we traded the best bat in our organization since Derek Jeter for.
Jesus Montero will be incredibly missed.
Didn’t his velocity decline in the 2nd half in SEA last year too?
yankeefem,
good location (down and away)
and the following 89mph FB seemed much faster coming after it.
“3 plus mph off his FB?”
tar-
pineda isn’t trying real hard.
you can see it in his body language.
if he hauled back and really cut it loose, i think you’d see that three miles come right back.
two days ago, i was testing my swing speed in golf and was stuck around 115 mph which was really ticking me off. i just got pissed swing harder and 119 MPH came right up.
you gotta try.
he ain’t trying for velocity.
Good location there.
“89-91MPH wasn’t what we traded for.”
——————————————
you have that right.
“the question then is, will 4-6 weeks in the minors benefit Pineda?”
From what I’ve seen so far, Yes.
I think when the season starts if he looks like this, he will get rocked. Which will than mess with his confidence. I don’t know how many more starts you give him a pass on.
“How’d the last changeup look? Missed it.”
It was a good one. 84 low outside to the RH batter.
“I think when the season starts if he looks like this, he will get rocked. Which will than mess with his confidence. I don’t know how many more starts you give him a pass on.”
Agree
Remember… 09 Wang looked pretty decent in ST too even though his stuff looked awful. Then he got into real games and got shelled
Randy I hope you’re right. But when does he start to let it fly?
Thanks for CU info.
His offspeed stuff looks better than his FB. For the most part, the FB looks pedestrian, at least at the moment.
there is a very simple solution for Yankees’ rotation in 2012 that resolves all issues for 2012 and for future years…
Have the best 5 guys in the rotation.
If Garcia is one of them (Andy will be undoubtedly if he remains healthy) have the two younger guys pitch at AAA and make spot starts as needed with the big club. If Garcia is not one of them, you might as well trade him.
If someone gets hurt, move one of the young guys into the rotation.
This one year solution gives the Yankees the best chance of a world chamionpship this year and preserves each of their young starters to slide into the rotation in 2013 (if they earn it) when Kuroda, Andy, and Garcia are unlikely to be there.
I really fail to see any downside in this solution and there is no reason to trade anyone (other than Garcia) unless someone hands them a premier position player on a silver platter.
“Randy I hope you’re right. But when does he start to let it fly?”
tar-
it’s just a decision he makes.
look how casual he is out there.
he’s not trying to air it out.
lol @ Bob Lorenz “He dialed it up to 92 that time”
Chase March 25th, 2012 at 1:52 pm
Put Pineda in the minors to start the year.
Showing up fat and throwing 10 mph less than he was last year is not what we traded the best bat in our organization since Derek Jeter for.
Jesus Montero will be incredibly missed.
————————————————————————————————————————-
They say that exaggeration is good for the soul. He was hardly fat and he isn’t throwing 87 MPH.
I agree that incorporating a change in the bigs isn’t a slam-dunk for a young pitcher and can mess with his other stuff. But just not sure why we are dealing for a work in progress; we already have those… Also, do Yanks think they have to keep him up due to politics or will they do what is best for him? Nice pitch for the K.
Pineda’s speed is down and his command is off from last year, but, he’s still getting outs. Nova should be doing so poorly.
“to slide into the rotation in 2013 (if they earn it) when Kuroda, Andy, and Garcia are unlikely to be there.”
———–
If Kuroda is their 2nd best pitcher this season, should they try to keep him for 2013 on a comparable deal?
Yep, he’s not trying to throw hard.
DJ!
Hello everyone,
A scouting report on Pineda, i haven’t been able to see the game? please.
Randy,
If you have a swing of 115 mph, that’s low PGA swing speed. I gather that you are a better player than in thought. Single digits handicap?
Atta boy, Jeet.
I hope everyone is as finished as Jeter is showing that he is so far.
GB, sure it’s a little hyperbole… but he was 20 lbs overweight and
Frankie Piliere
I won’t keep beating a dead horse, so if velo changes I’ll tweet something. More 87-90 in third for Pineda , spotted a good CH though
he ain’t trying for velocity.
———————————-
Randy:
well why the helll not? Considering he was sitting at 97 mph at this time last year, and this year it’s been a very warm Spring, isn’t it a little weird he’s hit 94 only 1 time? The season will be starting in 1 week and Pineada basically sitting at 90-91mph.
in general, am all for mind games, but one can definitely make a case for denial on this board.
couldn’t agree more, vinny
Chase March 25th, 2012 at 2:02 pm
GB, sure it’s a little hyperbole… but he was 20 lbs overweight and
Frankie Piliere
I won’t keep beating a dead horse, so if velo changes I’ll tweet something. More 87-90 in third for Pineda , spotted a good CH though
————————————————————————————————————————-
Hyperbole is the new BS? It wasn’t 20 pounds according to Cashman.
Um, was hard to miss how good Cano was going to be. Leyland’s a genius for stating the obvious? OK.
Hi, Luis! Wriggling out of trouble but fastball command has been off early. But I have missed a few AB’s, so I will defer.
Pineda’s change up has looked strong all spring. He throws it out of the same arm slot as his fastball (which is the same arm slot his slider comes out of). He gets good action on it. It is very difficult to pick up out of his hand.
Unfortunately, otherwise-Pineda simply doesn’t look like the pitcher he was last season.
His arm simply isn’t as fast. It’s noticeably visible. I have no idea why. But there’s a clear difference.
Now Pineda is very much a max effort guy. His intention to throw hard is a major part of why he throws hard. Perhaps he’s keeping something in reserve. But why he would at this point in time – no idea.
In this game what’s concerning is the following – when Pineda does try to reach back for something extra – he’s overthrowing significantly and his arm still look slow. He’s overthrowing and the end result is only 91-92. And more importantly-there’s not a great deal of life on the ball.
That at bat against Austin Jackson pretty much summed things up. He throws a change up with good action (though he yanked it so it missed its spot) to get a strike. Martin then signals for Pineda to go up the ladder with a fastball.
Pineda goes up the ladder and the ball just had no life on it. Jackson fouls it back. A fastball up in the zone – 89 and flat.
I really don’t know what to make of this. On the one hand it doesn’t look like he’s throwing with the same intention to throw hard. I didn’t think much of it earlier in the spring. It’s just puzzling now.
But at the same time – we are not seeing the same pitcher as we did last season. The ball just doesn’t have that life on it. And it was that life coupled with his strong command that really made Pineda something special.
I’d imagine this is only a temporary thing. Just a phase. It’s just puzzling. I really don’t know what to make of it.
“But just not sure why we are dealing for a work in progress; we already have those… ”
yankeefeminista-
well, that’s why i blew a gasket when monetro was traded for pineda.
pineda has a high ceiling, but he has to get a plus change to get to it.
every now and then a pitcher will just get a pitch and incorporate in into their game with no problems, but usually it’s a process that takes a lot of time.
even while not airing it out , pineda isn’t getting killed. i think if he went to triple a and spent 6 weeks really working on the change he’d have a much better chance of mastering it.
he still may do it in new york, but he’s going to have to have a really thick skin to do it with everyone asking him all the time about his fastball and any bad results he may have.
Hello JAP,
Good to see you around.
“White Sox acquired OF Greg Golson from the Royals for cash considerations.”
if Pineda is throwing 90-91 after being 95+ most of last season there is something wrong, either in his mechanics or effort.
The Yankees know the reason more than we do, they are paid for this, we are only observers.
If I’m the manager, though, I’m not putting Pineda in my rotation, given my other options, until I see him cut loose.
The Yankees went through that with Hughes last year and don’t have the need this year for a repeat.
I highly doubt that Pineda gets sent to the minors. But if he does, it’ll likely be Trenton, given the nomadic existence the SWB Boys’ll be leading. If that comes to pass, I’d welcome watching him work down here. But I really don’t see it.
Oh, really GB? Stop being a know-it-all.
Cashman said Pineda showed up 20 pds heavier than ’11 and likely didnt pick up a ball once in winter. #yankees http://tinyurl.com/7xmhu7v
Hi Yankeefem,
Thanks for your comment, hopefully he figures it out.
CB,
Do you think he might have a case of Dead arm?
CB:
thanks for your take. The visit to ‘reality’ was welcome
Randy, +1 (sigh) If this keeps up, I’d rather see him in the minors to start.
Hughes had inflammation, though…..Now I thought they should have had him checked out physically long before they did, so if they are concerned, they shouldn’t wait. I still think it’s probably just a reaction to the innings he threw last year, but if that’s the case, then I don’t think the velo problem will resolve itself until next year.
luis March 25th, 2012 at 2:07 pm
Hello JAP,
Good to see you around.
//
Luis!! Very relieved to see Joba is in better shape than originally reported. I’m excited that DePaula has finally been reeled in, although it was tempered by the Joba news, and of course, by the folly of that offseason trade.
CB March 25th, 2012 at 2:06 pm
Pineda’s change up has looked strong all spring. He throws it out of the same arm slot as his fastball (which is the same arm slot his slider comes out of). He gets good action on it. It is very difficult to pick up out of his hand.
Unfortunately, otherwise-Pineda simply doesn’t look like the pitcher he was last season.
His arm simply isn’t as fast. It’s noticeably visible. I have no idea why. But there’s a clear difference.
————————————————————————————————————————-
It’s nearly the same issue that Hughes had. Pineda throws a little harder but same range of decrease. Is it the”jet lag” from last years innings increase from the previous year or two as it was with Hughes?
Seems like these mysterious cases of diminished velocity are a recurring theme with this team lately.
I wonder if, like Hughes, Pineda didn’t work hard this offseason due to his massive success as a rookie.
I really hope the Pineda we traded for shows up eventually. Because losing Jesus Montero really hurt.
cb-
i’ll use the golf swing as an example because velocity works the same way in both pitching and swinging a golf club.
you have to have an intention to go fast.
once you go really fast from an all out effort, the velocity can happen easily after that.
you have to use mental effort and focus to go over a threshold. once you do it your body does it with much less effort after that.
velocity to me is lining up a whole lots of neurons to make the sequential sequence happen in the right order creating the velocity.
you have to “try” to get the initial velocity. it’s a ready , set, go thing.
pineda just isn’t trying for maximum effort.
why that is i have no idea.
J. Alfred Prufrock March 25th, 2012 at 2:08 pm
I highly doubt that Pineda gets sent to the minors. But if he does, it’ll likely be Trenton, given the nomadic existence the SWB Boys’ll be leading. If that comes to pass, I’d welcome watching him work down here. But I really don’t see it.
____
He has a couple of weeks to figure things out, but I think if he is still struggling with velo/command of fb, they should give him every opportunity to succeed by sending him down vs. making him learn on the job in the AL East. Then bring him up once/if he is in a groove.
There we go, seeing 92, 94.
see there’s a 94
once we see a higher velocity, we’ll see it more.
CB, have you seen Phil throw this spring, and if so, what are your thoughts?
J Alfred, I hope you’ll at least give Pineda the chance. The kid has tremendous talent.
What was Pineda’s off season program?
Randy, +2
By the way, i completely agree with you that mentally Nova is the strongest of the three.
I’m not sure why we have to see immediate results for this trade to be a success. I can already see that Pineda’s struggles will be completely magnified while Montero’s will be minimized.
luis-
pineda is a very relaxed guy wouldn’t you say?
who knows.
maybe that will work in his favor as time goes on.
Luis,
Yes. It looks like watching a pitcher with some dead arm. And its possible that he’s going through some dead arm now. It would be around the right time.
But overall what I’d say is puzzling is his intention to throw hard. He really is a max effort guy. He gears up and tries to throw hard. And fortunately – he has the huge frame and arm which allows him to do that.
He’s just not nearly as dynamic getting throw his wind up and generating momentum towards the plate. That was sort of what was really noteworthy on Pineda – how much momentum he generated going to the plate with that massive frame. He throws like a train.
But we just haven’t see that. Again – I have no idea what. If he started sitting 94-95 next start it wouldn’t surprise me at all.
I’m more commenting on what I’m seeing. More than out right concerning – it’s just strange.
I will say this also – assuming he’s not injured (and we have no indication that’s the case) – I’m more convinced now than I was even this winter that Pineda can be a true top of the rotation guy.
I’ve been impressed with his change up. That change comes out of the same arm slot with similar arm speed to what his fastball does. Now – he doesn’t have the arm speed now he usually has. So we still have to wait and see how that change looks coming out of his hand at a faster arm speed. But I’ve liked what I’ve seen a great deal.
I don’t know that Hughes isn’t mentally strong. Ditto, Pineda.
“By the way, i completely agree with you that mentally Nova is the strongest of the three.”
——————————
Nova was the mentally strongest of the 3, the day he was delivered from the womb.
yankeefeminista March 25th, 2012 at 2:13 pm
J. Alfred Prufrock March 25th, 2012 at 2:08 pm
I highly doubt that Pineda gets sent to the minors. But if he does, it’ll likely be Trenton, given the nomadic existence the SWB Boys’ll be leading. If that comes to pass, I’d welcome watching him work down here. But I really don’t see it.
____
He has a couple of weeks to figure things out, but I think if he is still struggling with velo/command of fb, they should give him every opportunity to succeed by sending him down vs. making him learn on the job in the AL East. Then bring him up once/if he is in a groove.
There we go, seeing 92, 94.
///
Depends on how susceptible they are to mainstream opinion. Seems to me, that mindset had some influence on making this trade in the first place, considering they’re flush in really good young pitching, but none that was media sanctioned as a “No. 2″.
JAP,
I hear ya!….But i think we just got ourselves another great arm and potential ace. foolish trade?
Wait..so…he just hit 94 on the gun yet could only touch 89 after reaching back a few batters earlier?
J Alfred, I hope you’ll at least give Pineda the chance. The kid has tremendous talent.
///
I’m not sure what you mean. Did something I wrote make you think I’ve written his talent off?
How would anyone know that Pineda is not mentally strong? Wow, that’s completely unfair.
That’s two iffy calls at first.
One season and we’ve already determined that Nova is made of steel while everyone else is made of ice cream? The thing I like about Nova is he has chutzpah – he’s willing to pitch inside. I have no idea about Pineda, but that’s not Phil’s style.
luis, depends on what ultimately transpires, our ability to replace the bat long-term, and what Alex and Teix do short term to permit us to wait. Unless of course we make a trade, dealing from pitching strength.
CompassRosy March 25th, 2012 at 12:42 pm
Larry Stone, with his typical voice of reason, says it could be years before a “winner” of the trade is declared…
http://tinyurl.com/7yvh62a
And, while I would agree, I continue to hope that both sides feel they were the winners for years to come.
*******
Post of the year so far Pretty much sums up everything – wait and see is the best approach before reacting – or in some cases – overreacting. . . .
Betsy March 25th, 2012 at 2:21 pm
How would anyone know that Pineda is not mentally strong? Wow, that’s completely unfair.
____
Unfair to Hughes as well.
Not that you don’t think he’s talented, but that the trade is complete folly. If Pineda becomes a very, very good pitcher, how is the trade folly? What happens if Campos also becomes a good pitcher?
“you have to have an intention to go fast.”
randy,
That’s true – but true to varying degrees for different guys.
Justin Verlander clearly looks to throw hard. He has an intention to go fast – but not nearly the intention that that say Papelbon does. Papelbon’s velocity is much more dependent on intention than Verlander’s is.
I just pick those two guys off the top of my head as a contrast.
Some guys just have really fast arms by mechanics and genetics.
AJ Burnett in his prime would have been a good example of this. He threw very hard – but his intention to through hard wasn’t particularly high.
So I’d say it’s more of an issue that there’s a spectrum. Some guys are more dependent on intention than others.
That’s one of the reasons why watching Pineda and Felix throw for the M’s last season was so interesting.
Both threw very hard – but did it in very different ways. Pineda was much more dependent on intention than Felix.
Betsy:
relax. The statement was intended to be a compliment to Nova. And that’s all
betsy-
you don’t like nova’s mental toughness.
i love it.
a lot of kids would have had a bad attitude when he was sent down last year.
he came back stronger.
that’s my kind of yankee.
YF,
What have you seen from Phil that makes you think that he might not be mentally strong?
you don’t like nova’s mental toughness?
luis March 25th, 2012 at 2:19 pm
JAP,
I hear ya!….But i think we just got ourselves another great arm and potential ace. foolish trade?
////
Been waiting for that one for a very long time. Didn’t you join PP? If so, there’s a very encouraging piece on Sanchez’s camp. Nunez!
Nobody seems to be talking about Halladay’s and Lincecum lost velocity this year early on. I’ll just wait until….instead of pissing my pants over next to nothing.
Rosy, saw that your pitching prospect aces will all be at AA.
There’s the bat speed we know and love.
m, said the opposite.
Yankeesfem, I only mentioned Pineda because he’s been here a minute whereas we’ve seen Phil for several years. I don’t know how to determine what being mentally tough is. Phil had physical issues last year so judging him based on last year mentally makes no sense. He might have been a bit too stubborn in the 2nd half of 2010, but does it mean he’s soft? No. Early in the season, he was winning games when the team wasn’t scoring for him. Accusing an athlete of being soft is about the worst you can do, so it’s not something I’m willing to do readily.
Randy,
Yup, he looks relaxed. I think that is a good trait if you want to survive in NY.
Yankeefem,
No intention on dissing either Pineda or Hughes. But i do think that Nova has an incredible mental makeup. I don’t know about Pineda yet. But he is certainly stronger than Hughes mentally. By that i don’t mean to imply that Hughes is feeble minded, he is strong, to pitch you have to have a strong mental condition.
Vinny, you don’t need to tell me to relax – I’m perfectly relaxed.
beautiful swing by Nunez. Wouldn’t suprise me at all, if Nunez shocks all the ‘experts’ (RAB, etc) as Brett Gardner already did.
Hughes has looked very good. You can see that the arm speed is back for him. And he’s again doing a great job of pounding the zone. Curve ball looks better as well – but still a work in progress to get it back. His change has looked ok as well.
He just hasn’t thrown enough innings over the past 5 years. That’s a very long time.
Randy, I didn’t say that I didn’t. I just am not going to wax poetic about how tough Nova is mentally based on one year. I like him – he’s a good pitcher and he’s got chutzpah. I like that last part best about him.
Betsy, I agree. Also think in the case of all three, we have no tangible evidence to determine lack of mental toughness. I am sure all three are plenty tough, each in his own way.
Sorry! I misread your 2:19 comment.
betsy-
you don’t like nova’s mental toughness.
———————————————————————————–
Where did Betsy say she didn’t like Nova’s toughness?
El Capitan with the base loaded!!
Betsy March 25th, 2012 at 2:24 pm
Not that you don’t think he’s talented, but that the trade is complete folly. If Pineda becomes a very, very good pitcher, how is the trade folly? What happens if Campos also becomes a good pitcher?
///
I have posted on this thousands of times. It’s folly because:
1). They already were deep in good, young pitching
2). The lineup is aging and has declined against RHP
3). The bat they traded is extraordinary RIGHT NOW.
4). Campos is a few years away (although I liked video I saw of him and hope he turns out)
No!!!!!!!
“Some guys are more dependent on intention than others.”
cb-
my ideas on velocity are kind of out there .
maybe we’ll get some some slow night sometime to talk about them.
basically , i believe you have to train at maximum effort part of the time to access the velocity.
in the golf swing once i have pushed to hit a velocity that’s hard to hit, i can hit that velocity with a more relaxed effort.
the intensity is lining up the neurons. once you do it, you can relax.
like i said, we’d need a slow time to talk about this.
the good news is pineda is getting outs with a relaxed effort. he’s clearly not getting killed. he’s throwing strikes. the problem is his pitch count goes up with all the foul balls.
you would think that’s just a temporary thing.
CB, thanks. Yes, the curve is a work in progress, but at least he’s healthy now and I have faith in Larry Rothschild to help him figure it out.. He couldn’t work on anything last year because his arm strength just wasn’t there, but now that it is, I would expect major progress. Phil just has to be willing to use the change occasionally – it doesn’t have to be a huge part of his repertoire.
Unfortunately, the last 5 years have been completely stop and start; he’s missed so much time, both through bad health and unfortunate circumstances. It seems like he should be 35 instead of 25, doesn’t it? I think this year is huge for him.
No doubt about Nunez. Am glad the Yanks did not trade him his offseason. He has a live bat and is noticeably stronger this season. And in this patient lineup, his bat fits well. A pitcher with good to great command can be reasonably sure that most of this lineup will not swing at a well-placed pitch if the batter has less than two strikes … Nunez, on the other hand, is a wild card. He can swing and hit at any pitch. He may strike out more often, but he also keeps a pitcher honest and on guard.
I’m more curious to see if Hughes will keep the velocity up throughout the season after another spike in innings this year than I’m concerned about Pineda. Nova, for the most part, hasn’t looked that great this spring. He’s the one that I may have more concerns about. He’s not a blow ‘em away pitcher.
i think some of us have said nova is a tough cookie mentally in how he competes.
there is no inference on anyone else.
J. Alfred Prufrock March 25th, 2012 at 2:26 pm
luis March 25th, 2012 at 2:19 pm
JAP,
I hear ya!….But i think we just got ourselves another great arm and potential ace. foolish trade?
////
Been waiting for that one for a very long time. Didn’t you join PP? If so, there’s a very encouraging piece on Sanchez’s camp. Nunez!
==============================
Actually i’ve been a member for years of PP, but at some point stop reading it, because i thought at some point they got to rosy about the prospects. Matt De Salvo being one of the culprits.
He’s 23, not 22.
I’ll also say this about Pineda. He’s a good “pitchability” guy. He’s not just a thrower. He has a good feel for pitching and is smart out on the mound given his age and experience.
Once that arm speed comes back – he has the chance to be lights out. No question.
“Once that arm speed comes back – he has the chance to be lights out. No question.”
don’t you think he needs the plus change to hit his ceiling ? i do.
i honestly can’t see much with the tv right now with the change because the camera work is so bad.
Look at the downward plane Pineda can get on his fastball.
Yankeefem, it’s not something that can be proven or disproven except perhaps over a long period of time and there aren’t any objective standards by which to judge it. I don’t think opinions like this can be wrong, so I’m not callling into question those who think Nova is tough as asbestos; I’m just personally not willing to go there yet.
JAlfred, I guess we’ll just have to wait and see; I don’t necessarily agree with you on all counts, but you make some good points.
Joe: “Joba works extremely hard and is a quick healer.” From Joe’s mouth to God’s ears.
As CB mentioned, Hughes only lacks the professional innings. 7 pro seasons and has yet to reach 900 innings, even counting ST innings.
Tucker,
That’s exactly why I picked Eduardo Nunez as my breakout surprise player of the year for the Yankees. He can hit the ball anywhere and unlike the rest of the lineup he doesn’t wait passively for that “perfect” pitch that never seems to come in the playoffs. He can hit tough pitches in pitchers counts. Cano is similar and so is Melky Cabrera. All 3 of them would compliment this lineup.
I know we had this discussion a couple of years ago, but what makes the change up such a magical pitch? Everyone seems to think it’s the pitch that can make or break a talented pitcher when it comes to ceiling
Actually i’ve been a member for years of PP, but at some point stop reading it, because i thought at some point they got to rosy about the prospects. Matt De Salvo being one of the culprits.
///
Luis,
I think that’s because Patrick Teale (who does a great job) is invariably consulting with Yankee farm executives and managers, coaches.
There’s always going to be that sort of institutional bias creeping into their statements on guys in their system. Patrick probably internalizes some of that. It’s like a reporter that gets in bed with a team he covers, because he’s going to get first dibs on news (what he won’t get, though, is anything that puts the organization in a bad light – so he makes the tradeoff of being inside and being comfortable, but risking the guy who’s not a house boy, and who is always made uncomfortable, kicking his butt on something big and/or controversial).
In Patrick’s case, it’s probably not intentional and more insidious. I forgive that, because he gives you a great deal of information that isn’t reliant on how prospects’ upside are skewed. Also, I’ve always had Trenton, so I get to see a lot of the players coming through the system and can make up my own mind.
Betsy, my point was merely that mental toughness is not quantitative, so it is hard to assess. So, I’d say we agree.
Nice solid finish for Pineda.
i think the yankees should test the agility of prospective yankee pitchers by having them jump on a trampoline while carrying an empty box.
if they do that no problem.
sign em up.
Betsy,
Because a CU keeps the batters from timing the FB, because it is thrown at the same arm slot and arm speed as the FB, but with a different grip.
Pinedas off speed stuff looked good today.
Maybe this is all he needs.
Add a few mph to the FB and he’s there?
Nunez is no surprise. He could always hit, and has always had line drive, gap power, at least ever since he started showing up in Trenton.
Yankeesfem, oh yes – we definitely agree there. I think mental toughness can be shown in many different ways, to boot – sometimes not even the most obvious.
I really like Pineda – he’s definitely not a thrower and he also seems to be a good kid.
Luis, thanks!
“don’t you think he needs the plus change to hit his ceiling ? i do.”
I do. But I’ve been very pleased with what we’ve seen from his change this spring.
Am I certain its going to be a plus pitch? No not at all. It’s still too early. Am I hopeful? Yes.
And I watched Pineda throw at the beginning of last season. His change up is so much better now than it was this time last year.
In this game just go back and watch the changes he threw to RH batters – look at the change he threw to Austin Jackson and Delmon Young. They were great.
Can he do that consistently? Can he do that in the regular season? Can he do that once he’s throwing his fastball at high intentions to throw hard?
Those are all questions that need to be answered. That’ll just take time.
The things that I’ve really liked with his change so far this spring is that he throws the pitch out of the same slot as his fastball and slider. He throws it with similar arm speed to his fastball. Those two are key variables that decide whether or not a hitter can pick up a change early. So far with Pineda – they are not.
At the same time – his change has shown good action and at the same time he commands it well.
Those factors – arm slot, arm speed, action, command. Those are the factors that a good change depends on.
All I’m saying is that I really like what I’ve seen so far. His change up is much better now than it was both at the start of last season and at the end of last season.
And given his age – it feels like he may be in one of those phases where young pitchers mature and grow quickly.
Pitchability is great, and I agree that Pineda has shown that so far. but I feel some of what we are seeing as “pitchability” is really just facing ST line-ups.
Just Not convinced his pitchability is going to carry over to the regular season.
If Nova is sent down over Hughes or Pineda, it doesn’t mean he didn’t win a job in ST.
He just might be the surest thing to come back from it than the others.
If this happens Garcia gets the 5th starter/long man job for a month, that’s all.
“I know we had this discussion a couple of years ago, but what makes the change up such a magical pitch?”
betsy-
for one thing, it make three pitches instead of two for someone with only two pitches.
so a hitter has more trouble guessing. it’s no longer 50/50 on guessing.
the other thing is the hitter sees fastball on a good change and commits his weight shift to where he thinks that fastball is going to be. a good change ends up in a place the hitter can’t get to because he’s already committed to a different spot) this happens mostly with a hitter swining from the opposite side as the handedness of the pitcher.
in other words if pineda throws a nasty change up that adrian gonzalez sees as a fastball down the middle and commits his weight shift to where he thinks that”fastball is going to be he’s screwed when that chnage up breaks away to a different spot going AWAY from where gonzalez committed his weight shift.
a change is not to be thrown in to the left handed hitting gonzalez because he’d be fooled INTO the pitch.
Ballester has a very live arm. That’s very clear.
But on every pitch he’s opening his front side too early.
Why is the pitching coach not trying to correct this?
Tar, Pineda’s trust in the change up has to carry over to real game situations. Ditto, Hughes’.
CB,
Maybe they want to see if he can correct it on his own?
yankeefeminista March 25th, 2012 at 2:56 pm
Tar, Pineda’s trust in the change up has to carry over to real game situations. Ditto, Hughes’.
========================
+1
His Grace hath entered
Luis, are you getting a picture on mlb-tv?
Yes!!! YF
Rivera’s on his last legs. That’s quite apparent when he gave up a another hit this spring. He’s losing it fast.
Damned. 15 pitches. really struggled this outing. Rivera may have to take his first ballpark shower of the spring.
Where have we seen this movie before? Power pitcher, focusing on changeup while velocity is down considerably after coming into camp overweight….how did it work out?
I think everyone should get a lesson in mechanics from his grace. So clean and perfect, i think he can do this for as long as wants.
Hall is not going to make friends with Mo by stealing his pop-up.
luis March 25th, 2012 at 3:05 pm
I think everyone should get a lesson in mechanics from his grace. So clean and perfect, i think he can do this for as long as wants.
///
Ha, it’s really so true.
. Whoever precedes him, once he assumes the mound, you get to see The Master at work. True Masters never break a sweat: they are their work.
Tar March 25th, 2012 at 3:05 pm
Hall is not going to make friends with Mo by stealing his pop-up.
————————————————————————————————————————-
really. Rivera was practicing tracking high flies to center field.
KY dominating Baylor. They look awfully good
Is Drob going to pitch today?
Was that the first play for Nunez out there? I have not been watching today very faithfully.
Former Yankee outfielder, Greg Golson has been sold to the White Sox by KC.
really. Rivera was practicing tracking high flies to center field.”
GB
Before he’s done, I really hope he gets his wish to play the outfield. I don’t think they can deny him that.
Luis, he’s supposed to. Glad you have a picture.
Nice quick and clean inning by soriano
Tar March 25th, 2012 at 3:14 pm
really. Rivera was practicing tracking high flies to center field.”
GB
Before he’s done, I really hope he gets his wish to play the outfield. I don’t think they can deny him that.
————————————————————————————————————————-
If they’re in a tight race or heading to PS, I’m just not sure it’s worth the risk. Can you imagine the heat Girardi would get if he got hurt. His life wouldn’t be worth a plugged quarter (adjusting for inflation).
Thanks YF,
I have to lower the quality of the feed and shot down everything else. But at least i get to see the game. Not much of a bandwidth to play with. Those are some of the trade offs you have to make by living in a country like mine.
luis, In terms of bandwidth, rural Georgia isn’t much better, although our Ma and Pa phone company is installing fiber to the home, coming soon.
“Those are some of the trade offs you have to make by living in a country like mine”
tell me about it.
i’m in this weird country called the state of maine.
there are a zillion dairy queens here that are thriving.
it’s like a throw back to the fifties.
randy l. March 25th, 2012 at 3:21 pm
“Those are some of the trade offs you have to make by living in a country like mine”
tell me about it.
i’m in this weird country called the state of maine.
there are a zillion dairy queens here that are thriving.
it’s like a throw back to the fifties.
————————————————————————————————————————-
The 1750s?
yankeefeminista March 25th, 2012 at 2:26 pm
:::: Rosy, saw that your pitching prospect aces will all be at AA. ::::
Yep – to start with anyway…
Reasoning likely due, in large part, to Tennessee’s mild April and May climate being a bit more conducive to pitchers’ preparation (not to mention possible confidence boost a month or so there could provide as opposed to the shattering it could take in the hitting heavy PCL
)
Tom, Randy,
At least you don’t have to deal with the Gorilla that is running things down here
. And i love your country side, part of the charm is feeling like living in the 50′s.
My optics are good where I am located, so I am blessed, but the lack of good ethnic food is a killah.
Attendence = 11,011 including our very own tyanks.
Uh oh. Alex hurt?
Not at all what NY needs now
Sawing that coming a mile away.
We should send Killer after that pitcher. Grrr!
luis
what country are you in?
Right in the floating ribs. Ouch!
The last time Alex got drilled in the rib was when Pedro did it in 2004. He’d better be ok.
Laird go deep’!!!
yankeefeminista March 25th, 2012 at 3:27 pm
We should send Killer after that pitcher. Grrr!
————————————————————————————————————————-
“Killer” eats garbage when he takes his ladies out, but, he doesn’t eat worms and slugs.
Against All Odds March 25th, 2012 at 3:26 pm
Sawing that coming a mile away.
///
SOB. That’s all this team needs.
Odds, I know you were praying for Joba. Good work, he’s not as bad off as was originally reported.
randy l. March 25th, 2012 at 3:27 pm
luis
what country are you in?
===============================
Venezuela
I hope Alex is ok, otherwise i’ll second YF post to send Killer for some payback
Drob finally on the mound!!
“Killer” is resting today. He had a tough day yesterday. The twins came over for a party and fed him birthday cake and ice cream.
GB7,
Did he let you have any?
Thank you tiger…That was a little league play
Nice inning from Drob, although he was leaving the FB a little up in the zone for my liking.
GB, he doesn’t have to eat him, a few well placed bites as a warning will do.
tomingeorgia March 25th, 2012 at 3:36 pm
GB7,
Did he let you have any?
————————————————————————————————————————-
between the twins and “Killer” I was lucky to get anything. It was a great day for me, though. Got lots of love from the kids. Their mom wasn’t as happy, though. They fed “Killer” out of their bowls. A bite for them..a bite for “Killer”. When I explained that he had all of his shots and were immune to kid germs, that didn’t make her any happier.
“Venezuela ”
luis-
don’t you have to be careful with what you say on the internet?
YES just showed the ST statistics of the four pitchers vying for a spot in the rotation. Nova’s numbers not very good in comparison to the others.
randy l. March 25th, 2012 at 3:21 pm
“Those are some of the trade offs you have to make by living in a country like mine”
tell me about it.
i’m in this weird country called the state of maine.
there are a zillion dairy queens here that are thriving.
it’s like a throw back to the fifties.
—————————————————————–
You can always leave!!!
MaineYankee March 25th, 2012 at 3:43 pm
randy l. March 25th, 2012 at 3:21 pm
“Those are some of the trade offs you have to make by living in a country like mine”
tell me about it.
i’m in this weird country called the state of maine.
there are a zillion dairy queens here that are thriving.
it’s like a throw back to the fifties.
—————————————————————–
You can always leave!!!
————————————————————————————————————————-
They ain’t letting Randy back into this country.
randy l. March 25th, 2012 at 3:41 pm
“Venezuela ”
luis-
don’t you have to be careful with what you say on the internet?
===================================
I am already in every black list they have. So i pretty much don’t care anymore. Besides, this is a baseball blog, what are the odds of them monitoring this site?.
The smoking Pineda 90 mph fastball is going to throw the AL East for a loop as they lol at us.
You can always leave!!! ”
Maine have some consideration for the rest of us.
Looks like it’s going to be another extra inning game. Will Leyland pull his players off the field and become a lowlife?
GB7
They ain’t letting Randy back into this country.
————————————————————-
He just needs to go back to Mass. where he’ll blend right in.
luis March 25th, 2012 at 3:45 pm
randy l. March 25th, 2012 at 3:41 pm
“Venezuela ”
luis-
don’t you have to be careful with what you say on the internet?
===================================
I am already in every black list they have. So i pretty much don’t care anymore. Besides, this is a baseball blog, what are the odds of them monitoring this site?.
————————————————————————————————————————-
After trading Montero, maybe they are monitoring the board looking for subversives.
Just came in and notice the score is 1-1! I would assume that Pineda had a good outing!!!
(Not that I’m surprised.)
WOO HOO!!!
Tar March 25th, 2012 at 3:47 pm
You can always leave!!! ”
Maine have some consideration for the rest of us.
———————————————————-
I’m just willing to share.
MaineYankee March 25th, 2012 at 3:48 pm
GB7
They ain’t letting Randy back into this country.
————————————————————-
He just needs to go back to Mass. where he’ll blend right in.
=====================================
No way!, they are not human.
If you go to yankees.com, Luis, there’s a link at the bottom that will lead you to team stats. You can compare all the pitchers.
Things that stood out were Nova has pitched quite a few more innings. Pineda was the only starter with more than a K per inning. Hughes had a good WHIP. Nothing too much you can read into, but it’s fun to peruse.
Hughes pitching a minor league game tomorrow? That means no video, no stats, no increase in the official IP count.
“You can always leave!!!”
man, you’re about as friendly as the guy in the pick up truck that honked his horn at me while i was on a back road bridge at sebago lake the other day taking video with my smart phone of the nice scenery.
he finally pulled up along side and i asked him if he had one of those steering wheels that doesn’t turn
UGHHHH!!!! send him home with a note to his mom.
“After trading Montero, maybe they are monitoring the board looking for subversives.”
Lol. Luis he does make a good point.
Looks like Montero was sick for a few days but still leads the team with 10 RBIs.
Despite missing a few games due to illness, Jesus Montero leads the team with 10 RBIs. Montero, the projected starter at catcher for the Mariners is expected to produce offensively and be a mainstay in the middle of the order this upcoming season.
http://seattle.sbnation.com/se.....statistics
After trading Montero, maybe they are monitoring the board looking for subversives.
———————————————————————
They would find some.
“He just needs to go back to Mass. where he’ll blend right in.”
____
You sure that after the Red Sox embarrassing implosion and the Pats SB loss to the Giants that Mass. is still there???
After trading Montero, maybe they are monitoring the board looking for subversives.
========================================
According to some in here, i am already one
embedded suxer?
Randy, thanks for the explanation. So I would imagine the CU is the pitch that makes most hitters look foolish – if it’s thrown right. For awhile the cutter was the hot new pitch, now I suppose it’s the CU
Some bad rookie base running from the Detroit Kittens.
MaineYankee March 25th, 2012 at 3:51 pm
After trading Montero, maybe they are monitoring the board looking for subversives.
———————————————————————
They would find some.
______
You mean Cashman?
Perhaps Cash will protest the trade because of Pineda’s lack of FB and get Montero back. Keep hope alive.
trisha – true pinstriped blue March 25th, 2012 at 3:52 pm
embedded suxer?
____
You came in right on cue.
yankeefeminista March 25th, 2012 at 3:51 pm
“He just needs to go back to Mass. where he’ll blend right in.”
____
You sure that after the Red Sox embarrassing implosion and the Pats SB loss to the Giants that Mass. is still there???
—————————————————————————————
Yes you can still smell it.
My Back Bears didn’t do well last night.
m March 25th, 2012 at 3:51 pm
If you go to yankees.com, Luis, there’s a link at the bottom that will lead you to team stats. You can compare all the pitchers.
Things that stood out were Nova has pitched quite a few more innings. Pineda was the only starter with more than a K per inning. Hughes had a good WHIP. Nothing too much you can read into, but it’s fun to peruse.
Hughes pitching a minor league game tomorrow? That means no video, no stats, no increase in the official IP count.
=================================
Mel,
Don’t get me wrong, i love Nova. But you make very good points. I am rooting for Garcia to be the long man, he has no future in the organization.
We are all compatriots in the face of oppression.
I am Fanboyicus!
90 MPH for a guy that’s 6ft 7in and a beast albeit 20lbs over weight with a gut that rivals green meany.
Bets, the changeup is always in style.
The changeup is the new black.
Who here really thinks the Yankees will base their decision between Nova, Hughes and Pineda on ST results? I don’t.
yankeefeminista March 25th, 2012 at 3:55 pm
MaineYankee March 25th, 2012 at 3:51 pm
After trading Montero, maybe they are monitoring the board looking for subversives.
———————————————————————
They would find some.
______
You mean Cashman?
===========================
YF, i think he means those of us that don’t go along with the Corporate line.
yankeefeminista March 25th, 2012 at 3:59 pm
Who here really thinks the Yankees will base their decision between Nova, Hughes and Pineda on ST results? I don’t.
=============================
Me neither.
Just reading over some of the posts.
“Pineda’s change up has looked strong all spring. He throws it out of the same arm slot as his fastball (which is the same arm slot his slider comes out of). He gets good action on it. It is very difficult to pick up out of his hand. ”
CB’s takes are always pretty solid. I think he said he expects the speed to come back, especially if he is going through a dead-arm period.
Anyway, there are a number of us who believed from jump street that Pineda has all the stuff it takes already. IMO he’s destined to be one of our top-of-the-rotation guys.
Can’t wait to play back the game. I’m just watching what’s on right now.
Yankeefem, it’s the only thing ever talked about at recent Yankees camps, lol. I choose to be optimistic about Pineda developing one – I firmly believe he will. Phil just has to be willing to use it, that’s all. I think with him the curve is more important, but putting the idea of a CU in a hitter’s head is a good notion. The more pitches they have to worry about, the better.
“Bets, the changeup is always in style.”
i love change ups.
devastating and nasty when really good.
pedro has an amazing one.
Great catch. Maybe not the smartest play in ST, but, for a rookie trying to open some eyes, maybe important, to go with his first inning catch.
I anybody is still watching the game, Berry for Detroit has made two amazing catches in left.
Oh! Forgot my main point which is Nova is looking much better.
He reminds me of Wang. Pitches to contact, will generally be efficient, but still give up some runs.
Yep, Pedro was the man.
Betsy,
The CU is the epitome of a pitcher’s pitch. It always has been, it will always be.
YF, so happy to see you here.
I always feel on safe ground when certain people are around (moreso than with others).
Our prayers helped Joba, hey?
After going through a little “unpleasantry” this morning I’ve made the decision that I will only converse with posters here who exhibit maturity and civility. That’s actually a good number – but it also leaves out a few. Hope I can stick to it and not be baited by false-friends moments and/or focused needling. There are some here who majored in that stuff.
M, lol – I still prefer a good curve. I suppose I can blame that on Dwight Gooden, who had an obscene one. Ever since, it’s been my favorite pitch.
Laird looks better at first base every game. Just needs to get his bat heated up early and stay consistant all year.
Luis, perhaps so……..but I march to the beat of several different drummers, lol
Nick – did you seriously move to Mexico and then move back home to SF? I definitely miss posts for periods of time so probably miss the real deal and then just see the wink wink part of it!
Rapada is sort of all over the strike zone today.
Why would they have to make a decision on the 3 out of ST?
If Freddy goes to the bullpen,then they’re all in.
If Pineda’s going to sit low 90′s, maybe he goes to AAA. But he’s still pitching well despite the missing mph’s, so who knows?
m March 25th, 2012 at 4:04 pm
Oh! Forgot my main point which is Nova is looking much better.
He reminds me of Wang. Pitches to contact, will generally be efficient, but still give up some runs.
=================================
But with a much better repertoire. If the slider is working he is very tough. They both have that Mental toughness that i like so much. They always rise to the occasion, they are competitors like Andy is and El Duque was.
and recovers to make two really nice pitches
YF ~
repost, just in case you missed my response to your observation (since about 8 people seemed to have posted at the same time)
yankeefeminista March 25th, 2012 at 2:26 pm
::::: Rosy, saw that your pitching prospect aces will all be at AA. :::::
Yep – to start with anyway…
Reasoning likely due, in large part, to Tennessee’s mild April and May climate being a bit more conducive to pitchers’ preparation that that of Tacoma (not to mention possible confidence boost a month or so there could provide as opposed to the shattering it could take in the hitting heavy PCL
)
GB, Laird is perhaps underrated defensively. At 3B as well.
“Yep, Pedro was the man.”
Who threw Zim to the ground by his bald head. Wow I can replay that whole scene like it just happened.
Did Pineda give up a ton of hits with his FB today? If not, did he get any strikes with it? If so, and we know he has secondary pitches, and if it has enough movement on it, it might not be a problem if he doesn’t get back up to 27.
My personal opinion is that when any pitcher is working on a certain pitch, other of his pitches tend to suffer. We’ve seen it before and we’ll see it again. Hopefully when Pineda feels the brass is content enough with the curve, he will probably start to rear back for his FS again.
Bard gave up 5 runs in 6IP.
At some point they’re going to have to make a decision. Bobby V might win this round over Cherington.
Hi Rosy, never saw it. Thanks for reposting. That makes sense. Wish I could see some of those AA teams including yours and Tampa’s farm team at Trenton… I’d love to see some of these players live.
Well….. I seriously went to Mexico and then came back to SF… it’s a little hairy down there in the state of Guerrero… drug violence… earthquakes… if I wanted to live that way I could just move to Oakland!
Hi Sis! Saw your post from before, just want you to know. And I appreciate what you explained. I know you cold. Yours would never be to rub something in.
luis
YF, i think he means those of us that don’t go along with the Corporate line.
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I don’t want to start that war again.
That’s unfair to say I follow the corporate line because I have a different opinion than you.
Is Nunez playing RF foreshadowing of Ibanez being released in May then Swisher DH, Jones RF, Nunez backup RF so Swisher doesn’t have to be that, just the backup 1B?
I can’t recall Nunez playing any RF or CF last season, so him starting in RF is curious to say the least.
What a tough deal for Cinncy on Madson. They’re on the hook for that money one the 1 year contract and no money from an insurance policy.
Nick, yeah I don’t see Mexico as the formula for a bucolic existence!
But were you seriously considering re-locating or was it really just a little vacay?
Tar March 25th, 2012 at 4:12 pm
“Yep, Pedro was the man.”
Who threw Zim to the ground by his bald head. Wow I can replay that whole scene like it just happened.
_____
The man only re: the changeup. I can replay that whole scene in my head as well. Also Yankee Stadium chanting “Who’s Your Daddy?” lol. I miss the old days when the crowd chanted as one.
The third sister kisser of the spring.
YF ~
I will surly look forward to seeing any of the ‘big 3′ once they inevitably arrive in AAA Tacoma this season.
***
Countdown to Opening Day …
less than THREE DAYS!!!
ECS ~
MaineYankee March 25th, 2012 at 4:14 pm
luis
YF, i think he means those of us that don’t go along with the Corporate line.
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I don’t want to start that war again.
That’s unfair to say I follow the corporate line because I have a different opinion than you.
____
I think Luis just meant the line that is the “company” line. re: what management chose to do, no?
luis – Maine is a free thinker, believe me. He’s definitely not tethered to the Yankee corporate line.
I also don’t think he meant you when he referred to subversives. There are certainly some who have gone over the top with respect to the trade…
“The third sister kisser of the spring.”
?????
”
Countdown to Opening Day …
less than THREE DAYS!!!”
Rosy, I am there; I just hope I don’t sleep through my alarm clock.
Nick ~
re: Oakland
****
Sis ~
speaking of Oakland….
Somehow I’ve “be-friended” an A’s fan (met on a Halo board, of all places) and I think of Allen often. Are you still in touch with him at all? Hope he’s doing well…
I’m always considering relocating… in this case I was using dodgy Mexican wifi… much could have been lost in translation… ultimately, I need to love someplace with reliable Ritter Sport access… Zihuatanejo is not such a place.
YF
Sorry, Didn’t mean to imply otherwise. I knew what you meant but for some reason as soon as I read your post that whole scene played out in my head.
Remember Jorge? Man I miss him already.
“But with a much better repertoire. If the slider is working he is very tough.”
Much better K rates second half with the slider in tow. Wang’s outings before injury showed a freakin’ nasty CB though. He was throwing 4 pitches; very impressive the way he remade himself. I pray he gets back his health soon.
yankeefeminista
I just don’t like how there have been sides drawn on this subject.
It’s not that simple.
trisha – true pinstriped blue March 25th, 2012 at 4:20 pm
“The third sister kisser of the spring.”
?????
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3rd tie game of the spring. Tie games are like kissing your sister.
Maine,
My apologies. It was just a joke, i am sorry if you understood it as an attack.
Bets….I can only speak for myself, but an unexpected curve was knee buckling but with a change I could at least foul it off to a degree….The key of course was not over committing my hands…But a good snapper was paralyzing………Then of course there’s Carlton’s slider which lies to the eyes
I think nick meant he physically “moved” his body to Mexico.
I seemed to remember him saying before he left that he was headed for a trip to Mexico.
Tar March 25th, 2012 at 4:22 pm
YF
Sorry, Didn’t mean to imply otherwise. I knew what you meant but for some reason as soon as I read your post that whole scene played out in my head.
Remember Jorge? Man I miss him already.
____
I hear ya, Tar. And immediately thought of/missed Jorge when you mentioned that flashback. Jorge wore his heart on his sleeve and took no prisoners. Will always <3 Jorge.
“ultimately, I need to love someplace with reliable Ritter Sport access… Zihuatanejo is not such a place.”
There you go.
Ho-ly! It’s already 10 years that YES has been on the air!
luis March 25th, 2012 at 4:24 pm
Maine,
My apologies. It was just a joke, i am sorry if you understood it as an attack.
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It’s all good.
I’m just tired of the back and forth.
m March 25th, 2012 at 4:25 pm
I think nick meant he physically “moved” his body to Mexico.
I seemed to remember him saying before he left that he was headed for a trip to Mexico.
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There tends to be a lot of “movement” in Mexico if you eat in the wrong places.
trisha – true pinstriped blue March 25th, 2012 at 4:05 pm
YF, so happy to see you here. I always feel on safe ground when certain people are around (moreso than with others).
Our prayers helped Joba, hey?
After going through a little “unpleasantry” this morning I’ve made the decision that I will only converse with posters here who exhibit maturity and civility. That’s actually a good number – but it also leaves out a few. Hope I can stick to it and not be baited by false-friends moments and/or focused needling. There are some here who majored in that stuff.
____
Thanks, Trisha. You too!
And yes, best to ignore vs. inflame. Especially re: those who feign interest in a discussion but who are in reality trolling or trying to subvert the thread to their own purposes. A waste of time.
“It’s all good.
I’m just tired of the back and forth.”
Especially when it is loaded with past history vs. earnest debate. Or people are not even read for what they are actually saying, but prescribed something by the reader. Tedious.
“Hopefully when Pineda feels the brass is content enough with the curve, he will probably start to rear back for his FS again”
We know you meant change up
Pineda had good results today but he was shaky early on
Some posters were freaking out a bit at the lack of velocity
I still think if Pineda starts the year in new York he’s going to have trouble with the change up
I think it’s going to slow down him reaching his ceiling rather than speeding him up
“3rd tie game of the spring. Tie games are like kissing your sister.”
Can you tell I’m a little sensitive these days? I had just referred to Rosy as my sis…
CompassRosy…..I think I’m going to fly up Saturday and catch the night game and then Sunday’s day game and then fly back….I normally do the Fri-Sat gig, but the airfares are so much better for Saturday travel
“We know you meant change up ”
Duh. Yes I meant change up.
Pat M. March 25th, 2012 at 4:24 pm
Bets….I can only speak for myself, but an unexpected curve was knee buckling but with a change I could at least foul it off to a degree….The key of course was not over committing my hands…But a good snapper was paralyzing………Then of course there’s Carlton’s slider which lies to the eyes
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In my time, I’ve seen only 5 unhittable curves. Sandy Koufax, Herb Score, Doc Gooden, Nolan Ryan and Sam McDowell. Fast breaking and nasty. Made even nastier by the big fastball. They actually did hitters a favor by throwing fastballs. Hitters couldn’t touch that, but, they didn’t look as bad.
MaineYankee March 25th, 2012 at 4:24 pm
yankeefeminista
I just don’t like how there have been sides drawn on this subject.
It’s not that simple.
_____
I think what has happened is everyone on one side has been conflated into one indistinguishable blob by some on the other side and vice versa. But it is unfair not to distinguish between people and prescribe something one person has said to someone else. I read very carefully and make sure I know who has said what. But some don’t. Not much that can be done about it on a one thread blog in which everyone weighs in on everyone’s posts whether or not they have read well. it is what it is, unfortunately.
I’m just tired of the back and forth.”
I will say a little while ago there was a certain poster that was trolling big time and nobody took the bait. A collective pat on the back to Lohud
I have no difficulty whatsoever with Pineda starting in AAA. When the trade was first made I said I thought it would be good for him to start there since he had put so many innings on his arm last season that it would give him a break.
But I think at that point in time some posters would have been ready to murder if that happened because there was still high sensitivity about trading Montero so they were demanding for Pineda to be an automatic savior. I think it’s died down enough that if he did start in AAA there wouldn’t be as much furor as there might have been at the time of the trade.
Of course I don’t know that for sure.
again, (on top of all the other reasons) if Pineda starts in AAA for a little while,
the Yankees get that extra year of control too.
If Pineda is gonna be great, and most of us think he will be…. an extra year of control is kind of a big deal.
How many teams have that luxury (7+ legit starters, 6+ presently) ? Take advantage of it. Garcia will do just fine in the rotation.
Separated at birth. Larry Bowa and Joe Theismann.
“Phil just has to be willing to use it, that’s all. I think with him the curve is more important, but putting the idea of a CU in a hitter’s head is a good notion. The more pitches they have to worry about, the better.”
Betsy, he needs both pitches, especially the CU vs. lefties. It is a start with CB that he is getting a lot of swings and misses. Still like to see it ramped up a few mph.
GB….I never face Blyleven but watched him real closely, damn I’d need a tennis racket…..Mike Cuellar had this nasty screwball that actuaaly was a reversed type curve-slider….Did stroke one to right off of him though…….Koufax I think was just the hardest guy to get a read on, because he could place his 95 anywhere he wanted and then drop the hook anywhere but up……The God’s blessed him and us for his brief time in the sun…….He was the best I’ve ever seen
“Some posters were freaking out a bit at the lack of velocity”
I don’t consider it freaking out, to be at least somewhat concerned if a guy who throws mid 90′s was sitting sub 90′s in his 5th ST start.
His secondary pitches weren’t bad, and he certainly didn’t look awful, but until he starts to air things out there is room for concern.
Tar,
It was up to 93-94, and he was still throwing easy.
I tried to actually check what his avg FB speed was, but couldn’t find it. Does anybody know how to do that with ST starts?
“It was up to 93-94, and he was still throwing easy.”
I agree it got better as the game went on, but the first 3 innings or so he was in the upper 80′s with the FB.
Pat M, yeah I don’t think there’s much you can do with a great curve; I love seeing knees buckle. I remember Mo throwing a cutter in the All – Star game a few years ago that did the same to NL hitters; they hardly ever see him, so watching those great players watching him in awe was something I’ll never forget.
You would have to rewatch the telecast to get velocities. There is no preseason pitchfx, as far as I know. But I saw him hitting 92-94 a couple of times later in the start. Maybe 90-91 at most early.
Yankeesfem, true…….that curve is so weird with Phil because he had a great one in the minors and learned it quickly. I think he tinkers too much, so once he and Larry find something they like, they need to stick with it. He also had a nice change in that TX game from a few years back and a good one in ST 2010. At this point, he has nothing to lose – he’s been to rock bottom already, so throw the pitch, you know?
BD – I’m with you, also on Garcia in the rotation.
As an aside, I pray Louisville loses in the NCAA, and I admit the reason is that I despise Rick Pitino. Not a great reason I’m sure. But there it is.
Pat M ~
Cool! Enjoy your stay in the Emerald City!
I’m sure I’ll be at all the Yank games – maybe we can meet up…
****
Now, I’m off to my first “live” fantasy baseball draft.
)
Wish me luck (and, yes, I’ll be trying to procure the services of Jesus!
If I were 23 and could throw 92-94, with a good slider and a getting-better change, I wouldn’t be reading this blog right now.
Pat M. March 25th, 2012 at 4:45 pm
GB….I never face Blyleven but watched him real closely, damn I’d need a tennis racket…..Mike Cuellar had this nasty screwball that actuaaly was a reversed type curve-slider….Did stroke one to right off of him though…….Koufax I think was just the hardest guy to get a read on, because he could place his 95 anywhere he wanted and then drop the hook anywhere but up……The God’s blessed him and us for his brief time in the sun…….He was the best I’ve ever seen
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I only remember bits and pieces of Score, but, he was probably the first Koufax. What a pity. All that talent shot in a blink. Ryan was close, but, McDowell…WOW!!! Mantle could never touch either pitch and said so, often. What I remember about McDowell wasn’t just the fastball speed but, the break and speed on that curve ball. Like Mantle, a lot of wasted time and talent was spent in the bars.
I remember reading a description of Koufax’ curve as trying to eat soup with a fork – I’ve always loved that description.
I’m honestly not worried about Pineda; if it’s an inning thing, maybe it should just be expected with youngsters that they go through this the year after a huge inning count. I don’t see him going to the minors, but on the other hand, if he does, I don’t think it’s a mark against him either. I don’t think reduced velocity is a reason to send him down, esp. if he can get hitters out still throwing 92 or so.
“Maybe 90-91 at most early.”
I don’t think it was even that high. And I do get the “working on another pitch” argument, and his “pitchabaility” aspect as well. In fact I agree with all that.
But after 5 starts maybe it’s time to work on his FB a little too, no?
I would love to corner Rick Pitino and ask him one simple question: Coach, could I use a couple of your Knicks tickets sometime?????
Bets…..Go to the highlights from the last game Phil pitched in 09 before going to the pen, I think it’s late April, early May……And look at the hook he punches out Miguel Cabrera on……That’s the curve that he needs to re-establish himself….He lost that when his role was to set-up Mariano…And then of course we know about 2011…….Phil Hughes is back and he’ll be better than ever in 2012…..My point of view of course, not an absolutism but close
Tar, love you, respect your opinion, and all that (as you know to be true.)
Whether or not it’s fools gold, I am not worried about Pineda. If he wasn’t working on another pitch, I probably still wouldn’t be too concerned. But because I know he is – and he’s been vigilant about it from everything I read – I think that’s where his concentration is right now. His velo has come up slowly. Nothing wrong with that!
Hey 93-94 ain’t bad. Only 3 away from 97. He’ll get there. And if he’s at 94-95 and it has movement, with his secondary pitches, I still think we have more than enough.
That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
It was up to 93-94, and he was still throwing easy.
–
So he was touching (not sitting) 1-2 mph less than his AVERAGE velocity from last year? Thats not good…
“If I were 23 and could throw 92-94, with a good slider and a getting-better change,”
But that’s not what he did Tom. Regular season game and he probably doesn’t even see the 4th inning to record his increased velocity FB. Early on it was pedestrian. He got k’s on pitches that I know are going to get hammered come regular season. Now I know could be totally missing the point on working on his secondary stuff, and frankly I hope so, but i’m not so sure.
He is still 5-6 mph off his peak velocity from last year. Which is ok, he doesn’t have to hit 99 this early, but he isn’t even getting 95-97.
Pineda is a surprise I think because he’s throwing a lot of 89 mph fastballs right now
I don’t see it as a big deal because I don’t think he’s trying to throw hard
He did hit 94 with one of his easy efforts so that’s a plus
I just see a very raw pitcher right now.
It ll probably take the real season to see much with him
I still think he’s going to struggle with the change trying to win and learn at the same time