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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Sunday notes: “Work on what you need”

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Notes on Mar 25, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Whether you’re happy with Michael Pineda’s spring training probably depends on whether you believe his fastball velocity will truly spike with added arm strength and regular-season adrenalin.

“Nobody throws hard in spring training, because it’s spring training,” Pineda said. “You think a little more, and work on what you need. Now I’m focused a little more on making good pitches. I learned from last year. That’s what I need.”

Pineda’s fastball generally sat at 90-92 mph today. He reached 93-94, but for the most part, the velocity wasn’t significantly different than we’ve seen in his previous starts. That said, there were times when his changeup seemed to be a legitimate go-to pitch, and Pineda talked about the fact he likes to add and subtract from his slider. It’s not just a power breaking ball, it’s a more nuanced pitch than that, and Pineda hasn’t been strictly a power pitcher, he’s been a little more nuanced as well.

“It’s a little surprising that he does have an idea what he wants to do,” Joe Girardi said. “He can make his slider bigger when he wants to and he can make it different for right-handers and left-handers if he wants to. It is surprising for a kid his age.”

From the moment they traded for him, the Yankees have talked about Pineda’s need to improve his changeup and add consistency. This spring he’s clearly made the changeup a focus, and it’s been a good pitch. He’s not lighting up the radar gun, but he does have a 3.31 ERA through five spring starts.

“Everybody knows last year I threw harder,” Pineda said. “So (they ask), ‘Hey, what happened to Pineda right now?’ But nothing (happened). I feel good. I can pitch. Everybody sees me. I pitch every five days. … I know last year I threw hard, so I have more power. But this is spring training, so the power is coming back.”

• Girardi on Pineda’s changeup: “I think it’s come a long ways. If you look at his tapes last year, he didn’t throw a lot of them for strikes, but you see a lot more of them for strikes and some swings and misses. That’s a good thing.”

• Forgot to mention earlier that Alex Rodriguez was actually checked out by a doctor after he was hit by a pitch today and it was determined that no tests are necessary. Sounds like he’s perfectly fine.

• Derek Jeter didn’t seem to make too much of his 2-for-3 afternoon. His second game back from a calf injury included a home run that let the Yankees get away with a 1-1 tie. “I’m just coming back,” he said. This last week and a half of spring training will be key to getting his timing ready for the season, Jeter said. So far, it looks pretty good. He’s hitting .348 this spring and really seemed to drive the ball this afternoon.

• Dave Robertson wasn’t happy with his command the last time he threw batting practice, but he said it was much better today. He went to the bullpen to throw a few more pitches after his one inning and made a “minor adjustment” to improve his curveball command. His curve was a little short during the game.

• Girardi revealed that he might have been a little more worried about Robertson than he was letting on. “He looked fine to me,” Girardi said. “That’s kind of a sigh of relief. In the back of me there’s still that little bit of concern, but he hasn’t had any issues for a week or so, so I hope we’re through it.”

• Another scoreless inning for Mariano Rivera. That’s 27 straight spring innings without an earned run. The guy’s good in the regular season, the postseason and the preseason.

• None of the players sent out of big league camp this afternoon came as surprises, but there’s something to be said for Jose Gil’s spring. Largely unheralded in the Yankees system, he hit .529/.500/.706 this spring. Probably doesn’t mean much, but he was very good.

• If you knew two months ago that this spring would include injuries to both Jeter and Eduardo Nunez, would you expect that Doug Bernier would outlast Ramiro Pena in big league camp? Bernier’s also had a tremendous spring and seems to have caught Girardi’s attention. There’s little chance he’ll actually make the team, but Girardi seems to like him.

• Other than Jeter, only Nunez, Mark Teixeira and Andruw Jones had hits for the Yankees today. Teixeira and Nunez doubled. … Brett Gardner, Jayson Nix and Dewayne Wise each had outfield assists this afternoon. … Robertson, Rivera, Rafael Soriano, Manny Delcarmen and Clay Rapada each pitched a scoreless inning out of the bullpen.

• Girardi said he won’t be at the minor league complex to watch Phil Hughes tomorrow. Girardi is going to use the off day to go to Illinois to visit his father, who’s been sick for quite some time.

• Former Yankees outfielder Greg Golson has been traded to the White Sox. He was in camp with the Royals.

Associated Press photos

 
 

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220 Responses to “Sunday notes: “Work on what you need””

  1. blake March 25th, 2012 at 8:16 pm

    Pineda seems relatively unshaped by all of this……which is good……his CU looks pretty good…..and I think maybe he’s more “pitcher” than everyone thought. The velo still should come of he’s healthy…..it may not come all the way back until later in the year ir even next year but it should return at his age if he’s healthy and it looks like he is.

  2. mick March 25th, 2012 at 8:17 pm

    Good job on the Pineda front, Chad!

  3. blake March 25th, 2012 at 8:18 pm

    Unphased not unshaped

  4. mick March 25th, 2012 at 8:19 pm

    # mick March 25th, 2012 at 8:13 pm

    if i had to bet i would say they keep them all up, unless they are deadset on this “extra year” thing.
    ==================================================
    didn’t they do the same thing to montero? that is the question…

  5. David in Cal March 25th, 2012 at 8:19 pm

    I know one shouldn’t extrapolate from spring training, but the Yanks look like a team with great pitching and mediocre hitting.

  6. RadioKev March 25th, 2012 at 8:19 pm

    Pineda was an all star his rookie season, and pitched better than Nova. Come on folks. It’s insulting to say he should be sent down over Nova – who he’s currently out pitching.

    Good on him if he takes it, but anyone could/should be legitimately frustrated when the wealthiest team in baseball screws you for money.

  7. RadioKev March 25th, 2012 at 8:20 pm

    Did they do the same with Montero? I think they were legitimately focused on his development as a starting catcher all season long.

  8. stuckey March 25th, 2012 at 8:21 pm

    “I know one shouldn’t extrapolate from spring training.”

    Fixed.

  9. blake March 25th, 2012 at 8:21 pm

    Tar,

    Barnes stays or goes? I don’t think he’s ready and its not just that I want him to come back….I really don’t think he’s ready for the NBA.

  10. mick March 25th, 2012 at 8:21 pm

    Good on him if he takes it, but anyone could/should be legitimately frustrated when the wealthiest team in baseball screws you for money.
    =============================
    what else can they screw you for?

  11. luis March 25th, 2012 at 8:22 pm

    Hello everyone again.

    Had to go fast this afternoon. It is my daughter’s 21st birthday, so i had to go and get some things.

    Maine,

    I don’t know if you read my post. But please accept my apologies, it was meant to be a joke.Nothing more.

    About Pineda:

    Is good to hear that he is pretty at ease with his performance.I agree that the important thing is for him to work on the CU. I was particularly impressed of how he can tweak the slider depending on what he wants to do. That shows maturity and pitchers savvy, maybe he is more a pitcher than thrower. When the velocity comes back he is going to be nasty to face. I really like this kid.

  12. stuckey March 25th, 2012 at 8:23 pm

    didn’t they do the same thing to montero? that is the question…

    ___________________________

    All have performed at the ML level. All would be demoted to go to AAA.

    Montero neither had any record of ML success and would have been promoted to make the team.

    The situations aren’t comparable at all, if you ask me.

  13. RadioKev March 25th, 2012 at 8:24 pm

    I’ll also say it sounds like Pineda is being a bit defensive, but he has a legitimate point. I really love his makeup.

  14. Pat M. March 25th, 2012 at 8:24 pm

    Establish command and go from there

  15. mick March 25th, 2012 at 8:24 pm

    I think they were legitimately focused on his development as a starting catcher all season long.
    ====================================
    so they could trade him?

  16. blake March 25th, 2012 at 8:24 pm

    Watching the game….I think a lot of those 88 mph fastballs may have been him working on a cutter or something….kinda what it looks like….somebody should ask him.

  17. RadioKev March 25th, 2012 at 8:25 pm

    Well, if you think Nova was screwed last season with the demotion – that wasn’t driven by dollars. They wanted to work Phil back in, and Nova was the low man on the totem pole.

  18. luis March 25th, 2012 at 8:26 pm

    David in Cal March 25th, 2012 at 8:19 pm

    I know one shouldn’t extrapolate from spring training, but the Yanks look like a team with great pitching and mediocre hitting.

    =================================

    David,

    To early to tell. I think the offense should be fine as long as Arod is healthy and Tex has a rebound year. The offensive problem might start to show this season, but i think it will show it’s ugly face more likely by 2013.

  19. mick March 25th, 2012 at 8:26 pm

    i am hoping Pineda is more Zen-like than defensive.
    Hope he is built like Nova in that regard.

  20. RadioKev March 25th, 2012 at 8:28 pm

    Mick,

    I get you’re bitter, I’m just giving you the logic. Is your logic that they wanted more years of control – so they could trade him? That’s pretty illogical too.

    The decisions weren’t connected.

  21. LGY March 25th, 2012 at 8:30 pm

    Establish command and go from there

    ———-

    Isn’t that what you said about Hughes last year?

  22. Gary March 25th, 2012 at 8:30 pm

    Repost, I think the board was into a heavy conversation about NCAAMB and perhaps didn’t even see it

    Gary March 25th, 2012 at 7:43 pm

    I’m just back from Today’s game. Soldout and a great crowd and weather. Yanks had the A lineup in with the exception of Nunez in RF??? Nick was out there signing a million autograps but didn’t play. Many plus a few minus. Jeter really drove the ball well. Wind was blowing out to RF pretty good and he got the first one up in the jet stream and it was gone. The double in the gap the next AB was also hit very hard. I thought more dingers would follow to RF, but he was the only one to get the ball up to take advantage of. Pineda had a couple of rough spots but I thought he pitched pretty well. Mo and Rafel also threw well. A few good plays in the field especially the BGardner rocket from LF to cut that run off with 2 outs. AROD seemed to be on the ball timing wise, but mostly swinging under it.

    ARod got plunked pretty hard and they took him out right away. Lots of scoring chances, but like last year they didn’t get that hit with RISP and less than two outs. I don’t know what the LOB was but it was pretty high. There was a small village left out there. The Nunez K was especially big in his opportunity.

    Economy and Yankee revenues are doing well! Sales of $8 Beer, $4 Soda and water were going at a very brisk pace. The sales also on fish and chips, foot long hot dogs, and deli sandwiches in the $8-$10 range were also very brisk. Yanks and Detriot fans were doing their part :-)

  23. Nilsson March 25th, 2012 at 8:30 pm

    Last spring you could tell something wasn’t right physically with Hughes. This spring it doesn’t seem to be a health-related issue with Pineda. As long as he’s healthy, I’m expecting the velocity to return in due time.

    Spring training is more about process than results anyway. Pineda mixed his pitches a great deal this afternoon. Love the changeups. It’s a changeup spring, no doubt about that.

  24. mick March 25th, 2012 at 8:31 pm

    Why am I bitter? I was shocked they traded Montero but have gotten over it.
    They were trading him all along, we just didn’t want to face it.
    Sending him down could have been for many reasons.
    I’m sure they didn’t let him play winter ball in fear of him getting hurt.

  25. blake March 25th, 2012 at 8:34 pm

    In other news Bard continued his less than stellar spring today….7+ era.

    Pineda has more weapons to survive through a “velo loss” period than Hughes did….I love Phil but without his good fastball he’s pretty much helpless out there….Pineda’s slider is still really good this spring and his CU is clearly progressing…..also he’s 6’8 and can put a difficult plane on the ball……

  26. Nick in SF March 25th, 2012 at 8:34 pm

    If Hughes and Garcia both make the rotation, is the LGY/Pat M bet a push?

    If that happens, will one of you send at least a single Ritter Sport to the other based on which pitcher starts a game before the other one?

  27. CompassRosy March 25th, 2012 at 8:35 pm

    “It’s a little surprising that he does have an idea what he wants to do, “Joe Girardi said. “He can make his slider bigger when he wants to and he can make it different for right-handers and left-handers if he wants to. It is surprising for a kid his age.”

    ::::::

    Not surprising at all, Joe. He had good teachin’ ;-)

    ****

    “Everybody knows last year I threw harder,” Pineda said. “So (they ask), ‘Hey, what happened to Pineda right now?’ But nothing (happened). I feel good. I can pitch. Everybody sees me. I pitch every five days. … I know last year I threw hard, so I have more power. But this is spring training, so the power is coming back.”

    ::::

    Didn’t I tell you his 3rd person referral was not at all Ricky Henderson-like arrogance, but but humble, yet confident and very charming?

  28. mick March 25th, 2012 at 8:35 pm

    Pineda mixed his pitches a great deal this afternoon.
    ================================
    with the stuff he has, mixing his pitches, learning further how to pitch, will hopefully help us forget Montero.

  29. blake March 25th, 2012 at 8:36 pm

    I love this ps3 app

  30. mick March 25th, 2012 at 8:38 pm

    # mick March 25th, 2012 at 8:37 pm

    randy l. March 25th, 2012 at 8:30 pm

    what the yankees need to do is take pineda, hughes, nova, and garcia to that trampoline place that joba went to and have them bounce until someone is odd man out.
    =====================
    wouldn’t cc and kuroda get jealous?

  31. luis March 25th, 2012 at 8:38 pm

    Didn’t I tell you his 3rd person referral was not at all Ricky Henderson-like arrogance, but but humble, yet confident and very charming?

    ======================

    Thanks CompassRosy,

    He has a great demeanor and seems to be at ease, even in the boiler call NY media.

  32. mick March 25th, 2012 at 8:41 pm

    # mick March 25th, 2012 at 8:41 pm

    or maybe it’d be a better idea to let them keep pitching and make a decision when spring training ends :)
    =================
    don’t you think they have an idea by now of what they are going to do?

  33. mick March 25th, 2012 at 8:42 pm

    He has a great demeanor and seems to be at ease, even in the boiler call NY media.
    =========================
    almost Zen-like… :)

  34. luis March 25th, 2012 at 8:43 pm

    wouldn’t cc and kuroda get jealous?

    In the case of CC, i think he breaks any trampoline he gets on. In Kuroda’s case, it doesn’t go with his samurai philosophy. ;)

  35. blake March 25th, 2012 at 8:44 pm

    http://riveraveblues.com/2012/.....tes-65870/

    Check out the pic here…..hilarious….at least YES gets they names.

  36. blake March 25th, 2012 at 8:47 pm

    If the Yanks can get anything at all for Pena than they should ….Bernier is better than him anyway as a back up back up SS

  37. luis March 25th, 2012 at 8:52 pm

    blake March 25th, 2012 at 8:47 pm

    If the Yanks can get anything at all for Pena than they should ….Bernier is better than him anyway as a back up back up SS

    ===========================================

    What do you think is a fair price for Brown? Pena and?

  38. stuckey March 25th, 2012 at 8:59 pm

    Brown was Baseball America 4th best prospect heading into the 2011 season after crushing AAA in 2010.

    His time in Philly was not a great debut and he struggled in AAA too, but I doubt Philly is ready to let him go for a song.

    If they entertain trading him, it would likely be for a legitimate return.

    Brown is not Maxwell, Dickerson or Wise. He’s still a real prospect.

  39. GreenBeret7 March 25th, 2012 at 9:08 pm

    blake March 25th, 2012 at 8:47 pm
    If the Yanks can get anything at all for Pena than they should ….Bernier is better than him anyway as a back up back up SS

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    In what 4 ML at bats has Bernier shown that? In the 3 at bats that he didn’t strike out? Pena is no prize possession, but, that’s a bit much. He certainly hasn’t shown much more of being “better” in the minors.

  40. blake March 25th, 2012 at 9:09 pm

    “What do you think is a fair price for Brown? Pena and?”

    Probably have to be a pretty good prospect id think….Betances or somebody….they might would do Nunez for Brown straight up….but Im not surely I would do that right now. Id love to get brown if the price were right….still upside there and maybe scenery change would help him….his swing looked better this spring the little I saw him.

  41. blake March 25th, 2012 at 9:12 pm

    “In what 4 ML at bats has Bernier shown that?”

    When exactly has Pena shown he can hit? Bernier looks like shatter defender to me and for that role that’s all id care about…..seems the Yanks feel the same way as he’s still i’m camp and Pena isn’t and is being rumored about being traded to Philly.

  42. stuckey March 25th, 2012 at 9:18 pm

    Brown hasn’t played since the 14th, so he’s obviously hurt, but was OPSing about .960 in 7 games before that.

  43. blake March 25th, 2012 at 9:25 pm

    Yea there was a noticeable difference in both swing and approach with Brown this spring at the plate…..whether it would stick…who knows…but the phillies need young position players badly so I doubt they’d give him away cheaply either…….

  44. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 25th, 2012 at 9:26 pm

    Just came in. Didn’t see any of the posts from since when I left, but I did see this:

    “Nobody throws hard in spring training, because it’s spring training,” Pineda said. “You think a little more, and work on what you need. Now I’m focused a little more on making good pitches. I learned from last year. That’s what I need.””

    EXACTLY what I said! Pineda is brilliant on top of everything else.

    :)

  45. GreenBeret7 March 25th, 2012 at 9:35 pm

    The Phillies are rumored to be looking at any middle infielder that can still breathe and walk. Somebody only suggested Pena. In 2009, he did hit .287 in about 110 at bats for NY. As far as what Pena has accomplished, certainly more than Berier and that was the point of my asking you. Look, it makes no difference to me how they trade, if they trade either or both, because neither has much value beyond AAA. They’re both filler. Other than age, it seems that since Pena had an option and Bernier didn’t, it made more sense for Pena to go down. Neither one looks to be around long.

  46. blake March 25th, 2012 at 9:40 pm

    “They’re both filler. ”

    exactly…which was my point as well….if they can get anything at all for Pena then they should because at best there isn’t much difference between he and Bernier….Bernier looks better defensively to me in the limited amount I’ve seen him.

  47. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 25th, 2012 at 9:41 pm

    “Anyone who is feigning being unconcerned or is legitimately unconcerned with pinedas velocity is just being naïve. Its that simple. If u think the yankees are unconcerned, u are dead wrong.”

    :D

    I have a GREAT idea. Let’s continue to ignore what Pineda says and pretend we know the REAL deal.

    LMAO.

    This has to be the same crew that had Joba dead and buried yesterday.

    Talk about premature/unnecessary panic!

    ******************

    Think I’ll stay with my original contention. It’s actually quite logical, but I know it’s popular to shy away from common sense and build phantom cases instead.

    The kid is working on other pitches. Velocity is not his main concern. He’ll let you know if there’s a problem. Until then, enjoy the show.

    :)

  48. GreenBeret7 March 25th, 2012 at 9:43 pm

    Phillie would be getting a better deal by shipping some money and Blanton off to Detroit and getting Santago back.

  49. jacksquat March 25th, 2012 at 9:45 pm

    blake March 25th, 2012 at 8:24 pm
    Watching the game….I think a lot of those 88 mph fastballs may have been him working on a cutter or something….kinda what it looks like….somebody should ask him.

    Pineda throws a two seamer and said he wanted to work on it this spring.

    And he does not throw a 88 mph changeup as Randy claimed.

  50. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 25th, 2012 at 9:50 pm

    I think we have quite a few graduates of IPU – I Panic Unnecessarily.

    :)

  51. blake March 25th, 2012 at 9:50 pm

    “Pineda throws a two seamer and said he wanted to work on it this spring.”

    yea but the ones I’m talking about weren’t moving like a 2 seamer….they were moving the other way for the most part…maybe he’s working on both….who knows.

  52. Crawdaddy March 25th, 2012 at 9:54 pm

    IMO, I think he was throwing a ton of cut fastballs today. Also, Pineda broke 90 many times today and touched 94 about 3-4 times. Last year, Hughes couldn’t even get his fastball to 90 in spring training. Furthermore, Pineda’s slider is definitely a plus, plus pitch because he could throw it out of the strike zone to get the hitter to chase or throw it for strikes. His CU is looking good too.

  53. Yank 97 March 25th, 2012 at 9:56 pm

    This version of Pineda is miles ahead of last year’s version of Hughes. Hughes is screwed without velocity. Pineda still has secondary stuff to fall back on.

  54. jacksquat March 25th, 2012 at 9:59 pm

    blake March 25th, 2012 at 9:50 pm
    “Pineda throws a two seamer and said he wanted to work on it this spring.”

    yea but the ones I’m talking about weren’t moving like a 2 seamer….they were moving the other way for the most part…maybe he’s working on both….who knows.

    It was fading towards throwing arm side? Could be a two seamer. It depends how place your fingers and your arm angle. I didn’t watch him pitch today, but previously his changeups were 80-81.

  55. blake March 25th, 2012 at 10:06 pm

    “It was fading towards throwing arm side? ”

    no…glove side.

  56. blake March 25th, 2012 at 10:08 pm

    the slider velocity is close to normal for Pineda and that’s a good sign to me…..maybe it’s an innings hangover type thing and he’s just got to work through it to get the arm strength back completely….but as previously said the good thing about his is that he’s still got a lot of weapons even without the plus velocity because of the slider….because of the command….and because of the angle he can put on his pitches due to his height.

  57. luis March 25th, 2012 at 10:12 pm

    Thanks Blake for your opinion on Brown. I do think that he would require a legit or several legit propects. I was just dreaming that we might snatch him for Pena and maybe a lesser propect, but i agree with you that is not happening. I wouldn’t trade Betances for him.

    Pineda throwing a bunch of cut fastballs would explain those 88 readings. Being with the God of the cut FB, it would make sense for him to experiment with it at least.

  58. CompassRosy March 25th, 2012 at 10:16 pm

    Just another pre-game activity in Tokyo..

    http://t.co/cjVBltq7

  59. blake March 25th, 2012 at 10:17 pm

    “Pineda throwing a bunch of cut fastballs would explain those 88 readings.”

    yea I don’t know if that’s what it was or not but it just kinda looked like it to me….looked like he was 91-94 with the 4 seam and then he’d throw a cutter or something every now and then that was 88 or 89. I think he’s leaving some velo on the table mechanically as well as he’s still not consistently getting that front shoulder closed up and it’s why he’s yanking some pitches as well…..all of it could just be a combination of things….innings hangover….lack of winter conditioning….mechanics not there yet….who knows….he’s still been effective and at this point I’m still not overly concerned so long as he’s saying nothing hurts…..if he’s not having pain and is healthy then the velocity should come back at some point

  60. GreenBeret7 March 25th, 2012 at 10:20 pm

    http://www.nj.com/yankees/inde.....witterfeed

    Q&A With Dellin Betances

  61. Jerkface March 25th, 2012 at 10:22 pm

    Pineda was able to cut his fastball at 95 mph last year

  62. jacksquat March 25th, 2012 at 10:22 pm

    blake March 25th, 2012 at 10:06 pm
    “It was fading towards throwing arm side? ”

    no…glove side.

    Oh, then that can definitely be a two seamer. Could also be a cutter, but I’m not sure I’ve heard him mention throwing one.

    But the main point is, I highly doubt it’s the changeup.

  63. blake March 25th, 2012 at 10:27 pm

    “Pineda was able to cut his fastball at 95 mph last year”

    did he try to cut it at 95 or did it just naturally cut at 95…and is he trying to cut it now in a different way? we don’t know those things.

    “Oh, then that can definitely be a two seamer. Could also be a cutter, but I’m not sure I’ve heard him mention throwing one.”

    2 seamers move arm side….cutters move glove side….

  64. luis March 25th, 2012 at 10:27 pm

    Blake,

    From what i saw from the game (4th inning and on), he seemed to have fairly good mechanics. He also had a very downward plane, which i think is very tough on the hitters. But the important thing is that nothing hurts. CB was commenting during the game that he might have a mild case of dead arm, which would also explain the lack of velocity. He mentioned that he could not generate as much arm speed as last season. I didn’t see him pitch last season, so i couldn’t tell the difference.

    One thing is for sure, he has more weapons to fight an eventual case of dead arm than Hughes did. His slider is very good and the CU looks very good as well.

  65. Jerkface March 25th, 2012 at 10:28 pm

    I’m fairly certain pineda already threw a cut fastball.

  66. blake March 25th, 2012 at 10:29 pm

    His velocity is down no question right now….but the reason why it’s down is what’s most important…..if it’s not due to injury then he should be fine.

  67. Jerkface March 25th, 2012 at 10:29 pm

    Cutter, 2seam, and change are all pitches he already threw, just not in great amounts.

  68. blake March 25th, 2012 at 10:31 pm

    luis,

    his delivery looks fine to me as well…he just doesn’t consistently get his front side close and that’s not uncommon for someone his size….I agree with CB and the rest of your post as well….he’s got the weapons to succeed through this period anyway if he locates.

  69. blake March 25th, 2012 at 10:33 pm

    “Cutter, 2seam, and change are all pitches he already threw, just not in great amounts.”

    yea but we don’t know if he’s tinkering or not….there are a lot of things about watching ST outings that we just don’t know….it’s tough to really evaluate guys because we don’t know what they are working on etc….obviously the velocity is down….if he could throw one 98 I’m sure he already would have just to shut everyone up….but aside from that it’s tough to judge the rest until we see him in a regular season setting.

  70. jacksquat March 25th, 2012 at 10:34 pm

    blake March 25th, 2012 at 10:27 pm
    “Pineda was able to cut his fastball at 95 mph last year”

    did he try to cut it at 95 or did it just naturally cut at 95…and is he trying to cut it now in a different way? we don’t know those things.

    “Oh, then that can definitely be a two seamer. Could also be a cutter, but I’m not sure I’ve heard him mention throwing one.”

    2 seamers move arm side….cutters move glove side….

    A two seamer can move glove side, especially with his downward plane. Really there are so many pitches with different looks one can throw with varying arm angle, finger position, finger pressure…

    Someone should ask him, what’s that pitch you throw 88-91 that moves glove side. Maybe Chad could do that.

  71. luis March 25th, 2012 at 10:35 pm

    GB7,

    Thanks for the link….He would be the perfect Yankee story, from bleacher creature to the YS mound. Read that he loves mofongo, which is a Puertorican delicacy. But the most important piece of information is that he knows exactly what to work in order to become a mainstay in the Yankees rotation. I do think that he may be the best out of the two B’s and Pineda

  72. blake March 25th, 2012 at 10:38 pm

    “A two seamer can move glove side, especially with his downward plane.”

    well it depends on the grip you use for the “cutter” but generally guys classify fastballs that move glove side as cutters and fastballs that move arm side as two seamers….now both may be thrown with the 2 seam grip but I’m just using those terms to classify how the pitch moves…. I believe Maddux worked the ball both ways using the same grip and just finger pressure…..

  73. blake March 25th, 2012 at 10:39 pm

    and Pineda may just be throwing all 4 seamers and has a variance in velocity right now and variance in movement….I don’t know…but it looked like he was mixing some cutters in to me at lower velocities

  74. blake March 25th, 2012 at 10:42 pm

    night guys….

  75. luis March 25th, 2012 at 10:43 pm

    GN Blake, take care

  76. Rich in NJ March 25th, 2012 at 11:07 pm

    It’s not insulting to send a player down if it’s in his best interests. Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t, but the decision should be purely fact-based.

  77. Betsy March 25th, 2012 at 11:07 pm

    Phil also had inflammation in his arm and it felt absolutely dead, in his own words. That’s not what’s happening with Pineda.

  78. luis March 25th, 2012 at 11:20 pm

    Rich,

    I agree with you in principle. In the particular case of Pineda, i think he is doing fine. I don’t think he goes down to triple A, unless he is injured.

    Betsy,

    Yes, you are right. But Pineda might be having a mild case of dead arm, which is fairly common. I wouldn’t worry about it yet.

  79. Betsy March 25th, 2012 at 11:24 pm

    Luis, I’m not even close to worrying about it……haven’t been and don’t intend to be.

  80. Rich in NJ March 25th, 2012 at 11:24 pm

    luis

    I don’t think he is downing fine. I think he has been mediocre, unless he is holding back his velo. But why would he do that to such an extent. I mean, anything is possible, but as of know, it’s got to be a concern.

    If he is injured, he should be shut down.

    I don’t recall Hughes saying he had a dead arm until the season was like a month old. Maybe I’m wrong.

  81. Pat M. March 25th, 2012 at 11:33 pm

    Look for Bobby Abreu to be moved before the season starts if The Angels will eat some dough…

  82. luis March 25th, 2012 at 11:38 pm

    Rich,

    We don’t know what he has been working on. Unfortunately the only way to find out is in a real game that counts. So far his slider looks very good, as well as the CU. If he has a mild case of dead arm as CB was suggesting, there is nothing to worry about. The velocity will come back eventually. If he is hurt, then that’s another story. As far as we know he isn’t, I don’t see the point in keeping that a secret, if that’s the case.

    IMO, the only way that Pineda is sent down after ST are: 1) the want to have one more year of control. 2) That the CU is not progressing, i honestly think it’s not the case or 3) That he is hurt.

    If he struggles out of the gate in April, well…All bets are off.

    In the case of Hughes, he did complain of the arm, but once the season started if i am not mistaken.

  83. luis March 25th, 2012 at 11:40 pm

    Pat M. March 25th, 2012 at 11:33 pm

    Look for Bobby Abreu to be moved before the season starts if The Angels will eat some dough…

    ===================================

    Garcia for Abreu?. They save 5 mil, we get a very good hitter and we get rid of Ibanez! ;)

  84. igotid88 March 25th, 2012 at 11:41 pm

    I think Phil also said he tried not to do much during the offseason because of the heavy workload. Which is why he wasn’t in shape coming into camp last year.

  85. GreenBeret7 March 25th, 2012 at 11:41 pm

    Pat, I saw that they were seriously even considered releasing Abreu. I’d prefer him over Ibanez.

  86. Rich in NJ March 25th, 2012 at 11:41 pm

    luis

    A dead arm all spring? Really? Yes, the velocity may come back eventually, but I don’t see how anyone can be unconcerned until/unless it does.

    I don’t want him to struggle with this level of scrutiny. I would rather see him pumping mid-90s heat when he debuts.

  87. GreenBeret7 March 25th, 2012 at 11:43 pm

    •Angels manager Mike Scioscia and General Manager Jerry Dipoto met with Bobby Abreu following the outfielder’s comments to Lider en Deportes. DiGiovanna writes that the team may have no choice but to release the veteran if he continues to struggle and be a distraction.

  88. Rich in NJ March 25th, 2012 at 11:43 pm

    Now, it may be the Verducci effect or some such, but that’s another reason to start him at AAA, imo, along with control of his service time, which should be important to them in this new budgetary era.

  89. Betsy March 25th, 2012 at 11:44 pm

    Phil has a bad habit of not saying anything when things are bothering him – the ribs and last year the arm.

    He admitted the arm thing just after the season started:

    http://www.northjersey.com/spo.....d_end.html

    Ironically, the right-hander still insists he’s not hurt, but team officials heard the dog whistle in Hughes’ description of a “dead, fatigued feeling.

  90. CompassRosy March 25th, 2012 at 11:45 pm

    Pat M ~

    yeah, I was just reading about Bobby’s comments on a Halos’s board that linked this article…

    http://tinyurl.com/6nspwbd

  91. Betsy March 25th, 2012 at 11:45 pm

    No more cutters, please – I didn’t think he had a great one anyway and the cutter isn’t helping his FB any.

  92. GreenBeret7 March 25th, 2012 at 11:47 pm

    I wish that sabathia and Nova were struggling as much as Pineda at 3.31 ERA.

  93. Rich in NJ March 25th, 2012 at 11:49 pm

    Oh, please. CC Sabathia has the standing to do whatever he wants in ST even if it’s drinking beer on the mound. Nova has never been known to have Pineda’s stuff.

  94. Pat M. March 25th, 2012 at 11:50 pm

    CompassRosy…….Angels have been shopping Bobby since December and with more gusto now that Morales is looking good….The issue is how much money does Artie Moreno will be willing to have as a side dish…….

  95. luis March 25th, 2012 at 11:58 pm

    Rich,

    If they send him down it would be a PR nightmare for the Yankees. I don’t think that’s happening unless he is hurt or not performing. Again, even with the diminished stuff he has fared reasonably well. He also has much better repertoire than Hughes had when he had the velocity problem. I wish that he was pumping gas right now, to end the speculation.

  96. GreenBeret7 March 25th, 2012 at 11:59 pm

    Calm down, Richie. Pineda is pitching as well as Montero is hitting.

  97. luis March 26th, 2012 at 12:04 am

    Compass and Pat M,

    I read the article in Spanish. If he has that kind of attitude, he may not be as good a fit as i thought. He would be having a diminished role here too.

  98. Rich in NJ March 26th, 2012 at 12:05 am

    Only chicks call me Richie, GB. Just sayin’.

    It has nothing to do with Montero.

    Maybe you should tell Cashman to calm down. He has never said that he knows for sure that Pineda will throw 98, only that he expects him to.

    You made a dumb comment. Why not just own it.

  99. CompassRosy March 26th, 2012 at 12:05 am

    The Halo fans on the board I was reading seem to think Bobby would be hard to trade because too many teams know that he may just be released…

  100. stuckey March 26th, 2012 at 12:06 am

    That young players are required to prove something in ST is utterly wrongheaded. What he knows to show in terms of results is entirely between him and the Yankees.

  101. Rich in NJ March 26th, 2012 at 12:07 am

    luis

    But it’s the NY freakin’ Yankees. They can take any heat the media throws at them.

    Now, I agree that you may be right.

    My only point is do whatever is in Pineda’s interests, and forget about everything else.

  102. luis March 26th, 2012 at 12:12 am

    Rich in NJ March 26th, 2012 at 12:07 am

    luis

    But it’s the NY freakin’ Yankees. They can take any heat the media throws at them.

    Now, I agree that you may be right.

    My only point is do whatever is in Pineda’s interests, and forget about everything else.

    ============================================

    I agree they should do what’s best for Pineda. But can you imagine the storm it would create if he is sent down and Montero rakes? Like Tar often says: Cashman must be praying real hard.

  103. Rich in NJ March 26th, 2012 at 12:15 am

    luis

    Sure, and again, I admit that I don’t know what is in Pineda’s best interests, or why he is throwing as he is. We are all speculating, which is what blogs are for.

    My only hope is that when they make their decision, that they understand that a month of media bs is better than months of media bs, if there is any chance that, as I said earlier, Pineda overcompensates for the decreased velo (as Hughes did last season) and injuries himself.

  104. Nick in SF March 26th, 2012 at 12:18 am

    “That young players are required to prove something in ST is utterly wrongheaded.”

    Required by whom?

  105. stuckey March 26th, 2012 at 12:22 am

    “But can you imagine the storm it would create if he is sent down and Montero rakes? Like Tar often says: Cashman must be praying real hard.”

    ____________________________

    Yankees team success: Forest

    Pineda/Montero individual stats: Trees.

    If the Yankees play well. If they are one of the game’s best teams (which they are positioned to be regardless of how Pineda performs), there will be no storm.

    Blogs are designed to fixate over the small picture.

    The big picture is what matters.

  106. Bret The Hitman March 26th, 2012 at 12:23 am

    Pineda seems to be handling himself great with diminished velocity. That means he’ll be effective for a very long time. He’s that rare combo of power pitcher with a high baseball IQ. He come across as a winner. He definitely has ace potential. The Yankees pitching is the best it has been in nearly a decade.

  107. GreenBeret7 March 26th, 2012 at 12:25 am

    Rich in NJ March 26th, 2012 at 12:05 am
    Only chicks call me Richie, GB. Just sayin’.

    It has nothing to do with Montero.

    Maybe you should tell Cashman to calm down. He has never said that he knows for sure that Pineda will throw 98, only that he expects him to.

    You made a dumb comment. Why not just own it.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Somehow, I doubt that’s what women call you. I’m guessing that what they call you is a little less polite.

    How Pineda is treated by the fans and in the media is directly related to the success and failure of both players. we’ve already seen how players like Rodriguez were treated by so-called fans and the media for no other reason than they were jerks.

  108. Rich in NJ March 26th, 2012 at 12:25 am

    If the Yankees’ pitching is the best it has been in nearly a decade, it will be in no small part the result of Phil Hughes being a top of the rotation starer for them.

  109. luis March 26th, 2012 at 12:25 am

    Rich in NJ March 26th, 2012 at 12:15 am

    luis

    Sure, and again, I admit that I don’t know what is in Pineda’s best interests, or why he is throwing as he is. We are all speculating, which is what blogs are for.

    My only hope is that when they make their decision, that they understand that a month of media bs is better than months of media bs, if there is any chance that, as I said earlier, Pineda overcompensates for the decreased velo (as Hughes did last season) and injuries himself.

    =======================================

    Rich,

    Very good point. I hope so too. But honestly i think Pineda will be fine in the end. The way he handled the media today makes me think that he is at ease. Meaning that he won’t do anything stupid ( trying to over compensate ) to please the media and the fans. I think he has a plan, getting command and mechanics ironed out first. At the same time getting physically ready for the season. At least i hope so.

  110. stuckey March 26th, 2012 at 12:25 am

    Nick, don’t ask me.

    If Sabathia has the standing to do whatever he likes in ST, I assume the point being made is Pineda does not.

    That suggests to me he has some requirement or obligation to demonstrate something in ST.

    Do I have that wong?

  111. Rich in NJ March 26th, 2012 at 12:29 am

    “Somehow, I doubt that’s what women call you.”

    *blushes*

    “I’m guessing that what they call you is a little less polite.”

    Talk dirty for me, GB.

    “How Pineda is treated by the fans and in the media is directly related to the success and failure of both players. we’ve already seen how players like Rodriguez were treated by so-called fans and the media for no other reason than they were jerks.”

    Alex Rodriguez was a multi- multi-millionaire, former MVP winner when he came to the NY Yankees. Stupid fans aside, that provides a level of comfort that most other players can’t sniff.

  112. GreenBeret7 March 26th, 2012 at 12:32 am

    WHOA!!!! A Red Sox prospect tracked and captured Pete Abraham.

    Pete Abraham ? @PeteAbe

    #RedSox prospect Bryce Brentz is the hunting champ of spring training. He got a 290-pound wild boar: http://bit.ly/GPVY1s

  113. luis March 26th, 2012 at 12:32 am

    The big picture is what matters.

    Not disputing that. But there will be a nightmarish media storm if Pineda fails and Montero rakes. Even though, is the “trees” and not the “forest” as you correctly point out. Regardless that i agree with you that the team doesn’t need Pineda to perform to achieve success.

  114. stuckey March 26th, 2012 at 12:35 am

    Tale of the tape:

    Phil Hughes

    - Sitting 91-92, touching 93-94
    - Working on change
    - Still inconsistent breaking pitches

    Outlook: He’s back!

    Michael Pineda

    - Sitting 91-92, touching 93-94
    - Working on change
    - One of the game’s best sliders

    Outlook: Uh oh!

    Hmmmm……

  115. Rich in NJ March 26th, 2012 at 12:36 am

    “The big picture is what matters.”

    Exactly. Just get this right. Don’t let anything but baseball considerations govern the decision.

  116. stuckey March 26th, 2012 at 12:40 am

    Luis,

    The media is opportunistic.

    Trying to ignite a firestorm will be tone deaf if the Yankees are playing well.

    Pineda will have to be struggling BIG time AND the Yankees will have to be struggling for the story to get any traction.

    Will there be stories written in absence of one of the above? Probably, but it won’t be a
    storm.

    The Yankees play well and Pineda just performs as well as he has in ST, regardless of what Montero does or does not do, any attempts to make hay of it will fall flat.

  117. GreenBeret7 March 26th, 2012 at 12:40 am

    What the Hell does making a boatload of money have to do with the way Rodriguez and others were treated? Sure as Hell doesn’t mean they should be treated any differently. He’s never dogged it on the field…never called any trouble on the team or bad-mouthed a team mate or front office. He may have refused to do an interview with some jerk reporter that took shots at him in the media, but, that’s hardly a crime.

  118. Rich in NJ March 26th, 2012 at 12:43 am

    You said:

    “What the Hell does making a boatload of money have to do with the way Rodriguez and others were treated?”

    I said:

    “..that provides a level of comfort that most other players can’t sniff.”

    My point is about the security (along with, as I said, having already been voted the best player in the league) to HANDLE any poor treatment.

  119. stuckey March 26th, 2012 at 12:48 am

    Except Alex Rodriquez’s unease with himself is not only well documented, but self-acknowledged.

    Might well be a motivating factor for why he dabbled in PEDs.

    I don’t even know what point it trying to be made here, but to offer Alex Rodriquez up as an example of being secure and free of pressure from the media is very, very odd.

  120. luis March 26th, 2012 at 12:48 am

    Stuckey,

    I am talking about the case that Pineda has to be sent down to the minors. I don’t think it will happen, because i think he is going to do fine. But if he is sent down, and Montero rakes. The media is going to make a fuzz about it. Independently of the performance of the team. You can take that to a bank. As GB7 correctly pointed out, their destinies are bound together. Whether that’s fair or not is beside the point.

  121. m March 26th, 2012 at 12:50 am

    Comparing Phil and Pineda is disingenuous.

    Pineda is missing velocity. Now he has said he can crank it up anytime he wants. We’ll see.

    And the fact is Phil is back. Back from tendinitis.

    Phil is Phil and Pineda is Pineda. They have live in different zip codes velocity wise. The fact they are neighbors now doesn’t explain HOW Pineda got there.

  122. Nick in SF March 26th, 2012 at 12:50 am

    “Nick, don’t ask me. If Sabathia has the standing to do whatever he likes in ST, I assume the point being made is Pineda does not. That suggests to me he has some requirement or obligation to demonstrate something in ST. Do I have that wong [sic]?”

    Ah, so your complaint is about commenter rhetoric here on LoHud?

    Some commenters here do require Pineda to show them something, but they have no mechanism to enforce their requirments. So why worry about it?

  123. Rich in NJ March 26th, 2012 at 12:55 am

    m is a smart poster. We don’t always agree, but she is one of the few people here I read.

    “they have no mechanism to enforce their requirments”

    This is actually pretty funny. Absolutely true, but still pretty funny.

  124. m March 26th, 2012 at 12:55 am

    And to save anyone the trouble of lecturing me. I am not freaking out. I am not worried.

    I am simply saying that you can’t ignore it.

  125. Jerkface March 26th, 2012 at 12:57 am

    Young players absolutely have to show stuff in spring training. Its how they win jobs. And established vets with track records can piss about all they want in Spring. They have a long leash thanks to the lack of options and guaranteed contracts.

  126. m March 26th, 2012 at 12:57 am

    Rich,

    You are making me blush!

  127. stuckey March 26th, 2012 at 12:57 am

    m,

    The point wasn’t to compare them, it was to contrast them.

    Obviously Pineda is dealing with a velocity issue and isn’t state of the art Pineda right now, but if Hughes can be a top of the rotation guy with his current arsenal, why can’t Pineda be a top of the rotation guy with his.

    Because even if Pineda is 75% of Pineda and Hughes is 100% of Hughes, 75% of Pineda might still be better than 100% of Hughes.

  128. jacksquat March 26th, 2012 at 12:59 am

    m March 26th, 2012 at 12:50 am
    Comparing Phil and Pineda is disingenuous.

    Pineda is missing velocity. Now he has said he can crank it up anytime he wants. We’ll see.

    And the fact is Phil is back. Back from tendinitis.

    Phil is Phil and Pineda is Pineda. They have live in different zip codes velocity wise. The fact they are neighbors now doesn’t explain HOW Pineda got there.

    You are right, given the same velocity, Pineda is better.

  129. Rich in NJ March 26th, 2012 at 1:00 am

    “You are making me blush!”

    :)

    GN all.

  130. luis March 26th, 2012 at 1:00 am

    M,

    Are you a “she”?….I always thought that you were a “he”. But i second Rich’s comments you are one hell of a poster, regardless of gender ;)

  131. stuckey March 26th, 2012 at 1:00 am

    “Young players absolutely have to show stuff in spring training. Its how they win jobs.”

    I covered this. I said what a young player has to show is between him and his team.

    His team hasn’t expressed concern. Fans are contending they really must be and they are lying.

    This is about Pineda and fans.

  132. luis March 26th, 2012 at 1:01 am

    GN Rich, have a good one.

  133. Nick in SF March 26th, 2012 at 1:02 am

    Isn’t the issue that Pineda 2012 to Pineda 2011 might be analogous to Hughes 2011 to Hughes 2010?

    (Please pretend I formatted that with the proper colons like an SAT question)

  134. GreenBeret7 March 26th, 2012 at 1:02 am

    stuckey March 26th, 2012 at 12:48 am
    Except Alex Rodriquez’s unease with himself is not only well documented, but self-acknowledged.

    Might well be a motivating factor for why he dabbled in PEDs.

    I don’t even know what point it trying to be made here, but to offer Alex Rodriquez up as an example of being secure and free of pressure from the media is very, very odd.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Why should a player’s bank account make him fair game for every jackass with a ticket or a notepad and pencil? He didn’t ask to be sent to NY. He did everything a player is asked to do. As far as his “unease” with himself be a problem? Because he’s not as educated or have the same upbringing as another player? Is that a crime. I’ll take a Rodriguez over jerk like Ramirez any time. At least Rodriguez gives an effort everyday, regardless of the fans or media.

  135. m March 26th, 2012 at 1:02 am

    Pineda may be better than Hughes right now, at thus moment.

    But it doesn’t mean we should sweep this issue under the rug.

    The velocity readings are what they are.

    I’m not comparing Hughes to Pineda. I’m comparing Pineda 2.0 to Pineda 1.0.

    Hughes has nothing to do with this.

    People are please because Phil 1.0 is back. Not because he’s outpitching Pineda 2.0.

  136. jacksquat March 26th, 2012 at 1:04 am

    GreenBeret7 March 26th, 2012 at 12:32 am
    WHOA!!!! A Red Sox prospect tracked and captured Pete Abraham.

    Pete Abraham ? @PeteAbe

    #RedSox prospect Bryce Brentz is the hunting champ of spring training. He got a 290-pound wild boar: http://bit.ly/GPVY1s

    Can’t be Pete, he’s a bore, not a boar, and he’s definitely over 290.

  137. Jerkface March 26th, 2012 at 1:05 am

    We also didn’t trade a real nice prospect for Hughes.

  138. stuckey March 26th, 2012 at 1:07 am

    Luis,

    It’s my opinion that people point out the possible media surrounding the trade and it’s affect on Pineda as just as much or even more ‘concerned’ with how little they’d look forward to it.

    The media is the media. You and I have a different view on what they’ll gravitate towards and why – okay.

    But what does it have to do with how the Yankees will perform in 2012?

  139. luis March 26th, 2012 at 1:07 am

    Jerkface March 26th, 2012 at 1:05 am

    We also didn’t trade a real nice prospect for Hughes.

    ===============================

    So Hughes gets a home discount? :)

  140. jacksquat March 26th, 2012 at 1:08 am

    m March 26th, 2012 at 1:02 am
    Pineda may be better than Hughes right now, at thus moment.

    But it doesn’t mean we should sweep this issue under the rug.

    The velocity readings are what they are.

    I’m not comparing Hughes to Pineda. I’m comparing Pineda 2.0 to Pineda 1.0.

    Hughes has nothing to do with this.

    People are please because Phil 1.0 is back. Not because he’s outpitching Pineda 2.0.

    We are getting Hughes and Pineda comparisons because of talk about velocity and supposedly they are competing for rotation spots.

    I don’t think its such a big deal that Pineda has not reached last year’s velocity yet, if the guy says he is healthy.

    For the media this issue is kind of ambulance chasing, when there’s not even an ambulance.

  141. luis March 26th, 2012 at 1:09 am

    But what does it have to do with how the Yankees will perform in 2012?

    Where have i said that this has anything to do with how the Yankees will perform in 2012?

  142. m March 26th, 2012 at 1:09 am

    Pete really pissed me off the other day. I was reading the game thread which they were getting blown out of the water. in the last inning he said Boston’s “scrubs” were coming into the game. I don’t know why, but that made my blood boil.

  143. stuckey March 26th, 2012 at 1:10 am

    m,

    You’re still missing my point.

    I was responding to the notion that Hughes with his current stuff can be a top of the rotation guy.

    This suggests to me Pineda with his current stuff can be a top of the rotation guy. And if those are the results he’s pitches do, how much of an issue do you think his “stuff” of going to be?

  144. stuckey March 26th, 2012 at 1:13 am

    Luis,

    I guess you didn’t.

    How the media chooses to cover the topic is to me irrelevant.

    If we’re speculating over an irrelevant issue, then we have no disagreement.

  145. jacksquat March 26th, 2012 at 1:13 am

    m March 26th, 2012 at 1:09 am
    Pete really pissed me off the other day. I was reading the game thread which they were getting blown out of the water. in the last inning he said Boston’s “scrubs” were coming into the game. I don’t know why, but that made my blood boil.

    Maybe because Pete is in no position to be calling anyone a scrub, that and it’s just generally rude.

  146. stuckey March 26th, 2012 at 1:17 am

    GB7,

    You’re getting yourself confused. I’m not criticizing Rodriquez. As I have told you before, I have zero issues with Arod as a person.

    I was pointing out the success doesn’t necessarily create a bubble of security for players. Arod, has vastly successful as he’s been, never had it until recently.

    I’m pointing out what he has acknowledged himself.

  147. GreenBeret7 March 26th, 2012 at 1:19 am

    I wasn’t even talking to you or about you. You’re the one that decided I needed a response from you.

  148. m March 26th, 2012 at 1:22 am

    I never said that Pineda can’t pitch well with decreased velocity. I don’t think I’ve ever talked about his ceiling.

    My only concern is that Pineda get his velocity back one day, because I for one do not believe that he has it tucked in his back pocket like he says.

    And when I say concerned I don’t mean worried. I mean that’s my only concern in the whole Pineda discussion.

    And I think I’ve said multiple times that it will return.

    You made a question if the day about two players. I’m just observing what is going on. Which is Phil doing his thing and Pineda doing his.

  149. stuckey March 26th, 2012 at 1:23 am

    Your 1:02am post quoted mine.

    I regarded it as a response.

    No biggee if that was just some quoting mistake.

  150. luis March 26th, 2012 at 1:26 am

    Good night everyone.

  151. Pat M. March 26th, 2012 at 1:47 am

    m…..I recall a brief conversation with my skipper Doc Edwards on day and asked him about how he felt about the club’s pitching……….He looked at me and after a few minutes growled that you always hope for the best, but your job is to be prepared for failure…….Looking at the 2012 starters, there is room for high hopes,,,,,and yet they’ll always be a devil advocate just waiting in the shadows for a bump in the road……..The LoHud has pleat-ha of folks who are ready to catch the sky as it falls, but the few that have high hope s and expectations have good hands and will catch them as they fall………Just hope Tin Cups knees are up to the task…….baring a 30 day stint on the DL, I can see the Yanks 5 starters are turning in 13-14 wins….and that’s a lowball claim

  152. Pat M. March 26th, 2012 at 2:05 am

    75 wins from the Yanks starters in 2012

  153. m March 26th, 2012 at 2:14 am

    stuckey,

    Ok I get what you’re saying. It’s like you have two horses, but the thoroughbred’s a little fatigued. But that’s okay because he’s going about the same speed as your other horse who’s winning again. So it’s all good.

    As the owner of the horses, I would want to figure out why the thoroughbred is lagging a little. I wouldn’t ignore it because all seems well. I might even ease off pushing that horse so hard.

    Anyway, I’ve been accused if many things. Being a Pollyanna, burying my head in the sand, wearing pinstriped glasses. I generally have a rosy picture and see things in the positive light. Something is not quite right with Pineda. But I’m not too concerned.

    Because he does look good even with the
    diminished velocity.

    As usual, good job of advancing the discussion.

    Pat M,

    Hope for the best, and prepare for the worst.

  154. Pat M. March 26th, 2012 at 2:25 am

    m…..That’s the line ….As always you bring your A game…….Time to call it, you’re a treasure by the way, one of the few remaining

  155. lounge lizard March 26th, 2012 at 3:56 am

    Everybody (Post, News, Times) writing velocity stories. Waldstein’s starts out with optimistic lead paragraph (and resulting editor’s headline) then veers into pessimistic territory.

    Winds up with this quote from Cashman: “So I think it’s a fair question. I don’t have answers for it. I can’t blame people for saying, what’s up? But don’t blame me for saying I don’t know.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03.....tball.html

    Staking out the “Don’t blame me” position early (the bureaucrat’s mantra). Should be a tough sell when anyone with 99 dollars can call up the mlb.tv archive of Pineda’s last start of 2011 and listen to the Twins announcers buzz about his dramatically diminished velocity. That would have been a good thing to vet thoroughly, Mister Cash.

  156. PacoDooley March 26th, 2012 at 4:32 am

    Pat M. March 26th, 2012 at 2:05 am
    75 wins from the Yanks starters in 2012
    ———————————–

    Funny you should say this after I was going through starters last night and adding up what I think the win total will be. I had 78 wins, which was fairly optimistic, so very similar to the 75 win prediction.

  157. PacoDooley March 26th, 2012 at 6:27 am

    How to get to 78 wins with this rotation? Probably not going to happen, but here is a best case scenario:

    CC = 20
    Pineda = 17
    Kuroda = 15
    Hughes = 15
    Nova = 11

    If Pettitte and Garcia spend time in the rotation they would contribute to the ca. 11 wins for the #5.

    That’s close to the number of wins that the Phillies rotation had last year, so it is clearly not easy. But the Yankees scores 150 more runs than the Phillies.

    So I am guessing that 73-75 is more realistic…

  158. randy l. March 26th, 2012 at 7:09 am

    so pineda is a controversial topic.

    interesting.

    he seems to have the spotlight on him.

    this may help hughes and to an extent nova that the focus is elsewhere.

    what i want to see is how pineda handles a game where things go wrong and he has bad luck instead of good luck. he was fortunate yesterday to get away with only one run.

    pineda’s era is good , but his whip isnt. nov’as actually is much better, but he’s given up home runs that skew his results.

    but none of this counts.
    showtime pretty soon and then we’ll have something real to go on.

  159. randy l. March 26th, 2012 at 7:15 am

    CC = 20
    Pineda = 17
    Kuroda = 15
    Hughes = 15
    Nova = 11

    i can see 17 wins for pineda- combined major and minor league wins :)

    rarely does a staff go through a year without at least one guy missing significant time.

    who will that be?

    it’s a dangerous game. stuff happens. the yankees could lose sabathia to a line drive or a bunt gone bad in interleague and everything changes.

    the yankees are in great pitching shape and probably great offensive shape if some veterans make comebacks and i expect they will. but again, it’s a game played with a really hard baseball. people get hurt.

    the best thing so far this spring is no injuries to key players or pitchers.
    if they enter into opening day like this, things will be looking good.

  160. MTU March 26th, 2012 at 7:15 am

    Paco-

    Good morning.

    I do not believe that is the best case scenario.

    Nova should get way more than 11 wins.

    ;)

  161. randy l. March 26th, 2012 at 7:20 am

    mtu -

    let us know when the sun comes up put there.

    are you like one of those old guys who goes to bed at 7 pm?

  162. Tar March 26th, 2012 at 7:22 am

    “Because even if Pineda is 75% of Pineda and Hughes is 100% of Hughes, 75% of Pineda might still be better than 100% of Hughes.”

    What the concern is WHY is Pineda at 75%. Is it injury related? fatigue from too large a jump in innings? or is it just working on other pitches.

    There are major implications depending on the response to the WHY.

    And frankly some of us are starting to get a little skeptical on the answers we are hearing. No panic just honest, healthy skepticism.

  163. blake March 26th, 2012 at 7:24 am

    I think Nova has looked better than he’s been given credit for this sping…..at times he’s been really really effective and his stuff looks good…..the last two starts he’s gotten hurt in short bursts by correctable mistakes…..I think he’s going to be fine.

    Pineda has been interesting to watch this spring because the velocity has been less than I was expecting……but the pitchability and mound presence has been better than I was expecting…..I think Cashman characterized him.correctly in that he has the tools to be successful at lower velocities……when he gets the velocity back he coukd be a monster and that’s what we all have to hope for…..the Yankee rotation has a chance to be really really good.

  164. randy l. March 26th, 2012 at 7:27 am

    tar-

    last i heard hughes and pineda were teammates so i don’t really see them as adversaries like some people seem to be feeling.

    to me it doesn’t matter which young pitcher goes to triple a though i’d personally prefer it to be pineda. for one thing i’d like to see him push deep into mastering the change up. i’d also like to see if he handles it well the way nova did last year.

  165. blake March 26th, 2012 at 7:30 am

    “There are major implications depending on the response to the WHY.”

    Yes….the why here is by far the most important question…..if the velo dip is unrelated to an injury then its really not all that concerning and it should come back at some point…..might be the 2nd half or even next year before its totally back but it should be fine.

    Couple of years ago Bumgardner came to camp with a significant velocity decrease for no apparent reason…..he got it back during the summer and was dominating in the playoffs that fall and never looked back.

  166. blake March 26th, 2012 at 7:30 am

    Tar,

    You think Barnes stays or goes? What’s the word in CH?

  167. MTU March 26th, 2012 at 7:33 am

    Randy-

    Yep. My days of being a world-champion sleeper are long gone.

    :)

  168. blake March 26th, 2012 at 7:38 am

    In other news….the Mariners are losing again as we speak in Japan. Montero 0-2 so far…..Iwakuma got hammered

  169. MTU March 26th, 2012 at 7:39 am

    blake-

    After 2 games it’s clear Montero is a bust.

    ;)

  170. randy l. March 26th, 2012 at 7:43 am

    “Yep. My days of being a world-champion sleeper are long gone.”

    mtu

    have you ever tried melatonin. works great for me.

    http://www.webmd.com/sleep-dis.....n-overview

  171. blake March 26th, 2012 at 7:43 am

    If the Angels released Abreu…..would the Yankees pick him up?

  172. Villa Nova-Ya March 26th, 2012 at 7:44 am

    In all honesty, in past years I’ve thought the Yankees erred in not having Joba or Hughes start the season in AAA. I can’t say it would have made a difference, but I don’t think it would have hurt. I have the same feeling about Pineda. I haven’t got a clue what the Yankees will do. They have become very inscrutable lately.

    But one of those three will be the odd man out. I believe it’s between Nova and Pineda, because Hughes is having a very strong spring. Nova has gotten punished on some really bad pitches, but then he’ll recover and throw some really nasty ones. Pineda does seem to have mound presence and I was impressed that he only gave up one run yesterday. From the outset, it looked to me like he was gonna get rocked. And I liked that in his last two innings, he was very effective. It was almost like he was working on things for the first 3 innings and his pitch count got very high, and then he made sure he got through 5 and threw a lot fewer pitches. I never thought he’d come back out for the 5th.

    The most important thing is whoever is sent down, they will be working, which is preferable to being stuffed in the bullpen waiting for an opportunity that may never come. And I think after the overall disappointment of not making the team, whoever is sent down has to feel he’s better off pitching every 5 days, improving his stuff, making himself ready to come up, rather than rotting in the bullpen, slowly losing whatever gains were made in ST.

    But then again, AAA isn’t ML, and this year AAA isn’t even that good,w hat with the constant travel for that team. So here’s a question, do the Yankees send someone to AA for the convenience? And how does the player view that?

  173. Villa Nova-Ya March 26th, 2012 at 7:44 am

    Also, who gets bumped from AAA to AA to make room for the ML-guy who’s “on hold?”

  174. MTU March 26th, 2012 at 7:46 am

    Randy-

    I have. The supplement I take has that and a variey of other natural ingredients.

    Works pretty well most of the time.

    Thanks.

    :)

  175. randy l. March 26th, 2012 at 7:47 am

    i’d be interested if sabathia is taking pineda under his wing and telling him to be a smart pitcher rather than just a thrower.

    i haven’t heard anything about their relationship yet, but pineda’s locker is next to him isn’t it? there might be something there because pineda is definitely talking a good smart game right now. as grardi says, that’s surprising for a young pitcher.

  176. blake March 26th, 2012 at 7:49 am

    The thing I like about Pineda to AAA obviously is gaining the extra year of control….I wouldn’t be opposed to it really assuming that Pineda wouldn’t mind it either….I think that’s the thing you have to consider. I would guess Mitchell or Warren would get bumped from the AAA rotation to make room for whoever is sent down.

  177. ron March 26th, 2012 at 7:49 am

    I can’t be sure but with a changeup,it is best thrown completely over the top.
    Now his changeup,and fb have to be thrown the same exact way to cause deception.

    So maybe because he is throwing more changeups,it caused a little change with his fb delivery,and or release point???
    Also,i think the innings increase for pineda,and him coming in 10-20 lbs overweight has him tired.

  178. MTU March 26th, 2012 at 7:49 am

    VN-

    I guess you are assuming that Garcia will be in the rotation ?

    Is that assured ?

    ;)

  179. randy l. March 26th, 2012 at 7:49 am

    mtu-

    sounds good. just wanted to keep you sharp for opening day when you’ll have to stay up later.

  180. MTU March 26th, 2012 at 7:54 am

    Truth is no one really knows why Pineda’s velo is down this Spring.

    Maybe not even him.

    It could be due to a variety of causes. Some OK. Some not so OK.

    He reports no discomfort so that is good.

    We’ll find out soon enough.

    I’m hoping for benign stuff.

    If it is the missing velo should return before too long.

    :)

  181. ron March 26th, 2012 at 7:56 am

    Pineda had a whip of 1.10 in 2011,.211 baa,almost 40 less hits than innings pitched,more than a k per inning.

    Those are ace numbers.
    Ivan nova had almost the same era as nova,but a 1.33 whip,.258 baa,just about a hit per inning,98 k’s in 165.1 innings pitched.

    Nova is not even on the same planet as pineda.

  182. ron March 26th, 2012 at 7:57 am

    Nova had almost the same era as pineda,i meant.

  183. Tar March 26th, 2012 at 7:58 am

    Blake
    Have to run, but Barnes is not ready. For his own good he should stay.

  184. MTU March 26th, 2012 at 7:59 am

    Randy-

    Sharp ? Maybe if I buy one of their TV’s ?

    I hope buisness is good for you this season.

    I’m very optimistic about this year’s team.

    It looks stronger to me in almost every dimension.

    ;)

  185. Villa Nova-Ya March 26th, 2012 at 8:01 am

    MTU -

    It sure sounds like Girardi would like Garcia in the rotation to begin the season. He’s been very sharp in spring, and he might want to take advantage of that. But more so, there are no options with Freddy. The other three have options. If Freddy was not pitching well, that’s something else.

    But as I said, it’s anyone’s guess what’s going to actually happen.

    Hey, Girardi said no 6-man, but do we really trust that????? ;) (j/k I think)

  186. randy l. March 26th, 2012 at 8:02 am

    “Nova is not even on the same planet as pineda.”

    i agree , nova did his work in the yankee universe.

    pineda did it in the state of seattle.

    but give pineda a chance.

    he may still prove he can do a well in new york as nova has.

  187. ron March 26th, 2012 at 8:04 am

    http://riveraveblues.com/

    Where is this guys hand?

  188. randy l. March 26th, 2012 at 8:06 am

    mtu-

    business seems up on cape cod though the season doesn’t really start until memorial day.

    plus friends who are red sox fans don’t seem to want to chat, so i have lots of time to focus on work.

  189. blake March 26th, 2012 at 8:07 am

    Girardi clearly loves Freddy….he was talking yesterday about his velocity being up this spring and how much they like having him on the club..

  190. MTU March 26th, 2012 at 8:07 am

    VN-

    You might be right.

    The Yankees have many options on how to handle their situation which is a good thing.

    The 6-man Ro seemed to be a failed experiment. Don’t particularly want to see that again anytime soon.

    It’s gonna be real interesting to see how it all plays out.

    ST performance is fairly meaningless as far as I am concerned. It’s to get ready not to judge by IMO.

    ;)

  191. ron March 26th, 2012 at 8:13 am

    Pineda had a better baa,whip,more k’s per innings pitched than king felix.King felix had 16 less hits than innings pitched,compared to pineda’s 40 less hits.
    That does not mean you would take pineda over king felix,and they both did it in seattle.

    Nova probably never comes close to pineda’s potential,ny or not.

  192. MTU March 26th, 2012 at 8:14 am

    I think The King taught Michael a thing or 2 about how to pitch.

    ;)

  193. MTU March 26th, 2012 at 8:16 am

    Randy-

    Glad to hear it.

    I’ve got the Yankee’s pencilled in for 100 + wins.

    :)

  194. MTU March 26th, 2012 at 8:18 am

    Blake-

    So you think Garcia is likely to start ?

    And one of Hughes, Nova, or Pineda gets the heave-ho to AAA ?

  195. Betsy March 26th, 2012 at 8:23 am

    I love Freddy, too, but the manager of a team can never have the same long term view that the GM has because the manager is very rarely there long enough. The rotation decision is not Joe’s alone to make, so even if he loves Freddy, the organization is going to want Phil – and rightly so. My problem has been that I don’t think Freddy should have been auditioning for a spot, but clearly the Yankees didn’t have any issues with that or with pushing Freddy out (assuming they wanted Phil to have that spot) because if they did, Cashman would not have sought out Andy.

    I have no idea why Pineda and Hughes are being compared at all at this point. Pineda, unlike Phil from last year, is seemingly healthy – though Phil said he was healthy last year and he wasn’t. Since the velocity drop off is not nearly as significant, and Pineda is still pitching effectively, I really don’t see any reason for concern. Either the velo drop off is because he came to camp overweight, which should never happen again, or it’s due to a heavy innings workload from last year, which will resolve itself eventually- next year.

  196. ron March 26th, 2012 at 8:23 am

    SURPRISE, Ariz. (AP)—Yu Darvish gave up four runs and six hits in five innings Sunday in a Texas Rangers’ intrasquad game.

    The Japanese rookie struck out 11 and gave up all his runs in the fourth against a batting order of mostly minor leaguers.

  197. MTU March 26th, 2012 at 8:25 am

    Steady-Freddy in the Ro and a “crazy Ivan” with Nova ?

    Good thing Nova is a master at overcoming adversity.

    Doesn’t hardly seem fair considering Nova won 18 last year.

    :(

  198. randy l. March 26th, 2012 at 8:27 am

    “Nova probably never comes close to pineda’s potential,ny or not.”

    nova has already proved he can pitch in new york.

    pineda hasn’t yet.

    i think you’re getting a little ahead of yourself.

    pineda may not be being nuanced.

    maybe he’s just being lazy.

    he did after all choose to come into camp out of shape.

    i’ll give him nuanced when he faces reporters after a bad game in the real season and comes back and keeps his cool his next time out.

    until he does it, he might be just being extremely casual in spring training.

  199. pat March 26th, 2012 at 8:28 am

    I would think that the AAA team being nomadic for 2012 likely makes a stay there for someone even less appealing than usual.

  200. blake March 26th, 2012 at 8:28 am

    MTU,

    I don’t know….I think if Girardi were making the call then freddy would probably be in the rotation.

    Im kinda wondering if the best thing might be to actually start Pineda at AAA and Garcia as the #5 and then see how things shake out.

    Advantages:
    - you gain an additional year of control on Pineda
    -Pineda can continue to refine his CU
    -Pineda can build his arm strength in a low stress setting
    -gives you time to properly evaluate where Hughes and Nova are
    -givesa you time to properly evaluate where Andy is.

    Disadvantage would mainly be related to Pineda’s mindset and if he would be ok with that move or not.

  201. blake March 26th, 2012 at 8:31 am

    Another issue is that if you do that and everyone pitches well then what do you do? Do you take two guys out of the rotation to make room for both Pineda and Pettite? ….you could trade Garcia….but what if both Nova and Hughes are doing well? Its a good problem to have but it could get a little messy.

  202. MTU March 26th, 2012 at 8:35 am

    blake-

    A while back I posed that very question.

    i.e. Would the Yankees send Pineda to AAA ?

    I did not offer my own opinion because I really didn’t have one.

    I sought feedback. I wondered if the Yankees would do such a thing.

    Your reasoning is fine with me. What would the Yankee brass be willing to do though ?

    Also, as you point out, How would Mr. P take it ? Does he have Nova’s determination ?

    Most of the time in life people tend to take the path of least resistance.

    Not sure what that is in this case ?

    ;)

  203. MTU March 26th, 2012 at 8:37 am

    Pat-

    agreed. Less tasty than normal because of the nomadic existence.

  204. MTU March 26th, 2012 at 8:38 am

    Flip a coin.

    Draw straws.

    Pick a card.

    Duel.

    :)

  205. Villa Nova-Ya March 26th, 2012 at 8:40 am

    pat -

    I agree. And while AA is more stable in that regard, it’s Double A. No matter what the reasoning, I’d think it would “feel” wrong to the player involved. Even if he understands generally. Someone’s going to be unhappy here.

    Betsy -

    Cashman sought out Andy after signing Freddy, but before signing Kuroda. If Andy signed earlier, likely Kuroda would be elsewhere. Cashman told Andy to stop prepping, but Andy kept on, and then he sought ought Cash to tell the Yankees he wanted to come back. And would you tell Andy Pettitte no? :)

  206. randy l. March 26th, 2012 at 8:42 am

    “Most of the time in life people tend to take the path of least resistance.”

    i think the smart thing to do for management to do that would be the hardest thing to do would be to decide who they want to keep and build the team around.

    take those guys out of the picture and showcase the guys they want to trade and get their numbers up and then trade them while they have those good numbers.

    when you think about it that’s what seattle did with pineda and that worked out well for them.

  207. randy l. March 26th, 2012 at 8:42 am

    “Flip a coin.

    Draw straws.

    Pick a card.

    Duel.”

    trampoline contest?

  208. blake March 26th, 2012 at 8:45 am

    The Giants sent Bumgardner down when his velo dipped ….however he wasn’t getting anybody out because of it and they hadn’t traded Montero for him either….so its a different situation ….Pineda has still been effective and Im sure the Yanks have reservations about a media firestorm it may cause if they sent him down.

  209. MTU March 26th, 2012 at 8:45 am

    Randy-

    That’s fine except I do not think the Yankees know that just yet.

    Garcia and Kuroda will, of course, not be a part of the picture going forward.

    CC, Nova, Hughes, and Pineda likely will be.

    Who do you like and who would you think about moving ?

  210. Villa Nova-Ya March 26th, 2012 at 8:46 am

    randy l -

    The Mariners weren’t shopping Pineda. Cashman requested him. From what I’ve read.

  211. randy l. March 26th, 2012 at 8:53 am

    “And would you tell Andy Pettitte no? ”

    i might because andy pettitte never makes up his stinking mind and is always mambypambying if he’s going to play or not. expect him to do the same this fall if his comeback is a success.

    pettitte always keeps the yankees waiting.

    right now i wouldn’t mind seeing him start pitching in june rather than now so he ‘d be fresh for the playoffs. maybe it’d be better for the yankees if he was just a half year pitcher.

    all the above said, he may not even pitch much this year. who knows how his comeback will go.

    but yeah, any pettitte has become kind of high maintenance for the yankees.

  212. MTU March 26th, 2012 at 8:53 am

    Randy-

    Ouch !

    :)

  213. 86w183 March 26th, 2012 at 8:53 am

    I believe the Mariners called and asked if there was any way to get Montero without including King Felix and Cashman’s answer was “Pineda”.

    I have to deal Garcia rather than send down Pineda. It’s not right to send a guy down to screw him out of future money. The Yanks have not done that in the past and shouldn’t start now.

    As Garcia continues to pitch well he has to be an attractive trade chip @ $ 4 M.

  214. blake March 26th, 2012 at 8:55 am

    “The Mariners weren’t shopping Pineda. Cashman requested him. From what I’ve read.”

    Story I heard from Cash on the radio is that Jack Z asked how he could get Montero and Cashman said Pineda was the only guy he’d discuss other than Felix and if just went from there.

  215. MTU March 26th, 2012 at 8:58 am

    86-

    Question is, “Do the Yankees want to deal Garcia ?”

    Not sure they do at this point.

    Later on I think the odds go up.

    They would have a better handle on how things are going with everyone.

  216. MTU March 26th, 2012 at 8:58 am

    new thread —–>

  217. Villa Nova-Ya March 26th, 2012 at 8:59 am

    randy l -

    I’m a big Pettitte fan. I think he can bring a lot to the table. But he was approached in December, and said no. As much as I like having a healthy productive Andy Pettitte, I’m not so sure I like that he took it for granted that if he said he was ready to pitch for them, they’d say okay.

    As I’ve said, my opinions sometimes contradict themselves.

    To me, there are nuances in every situation (and I know that discussing those nuances here only get one in trouble, especially semantically, and lead to being called a “fence sitter” LOL )

  218. blake March 26th, 2012 at 8:59 am

    “It’s not right to send a guy down to screw him out of future money. The Yanks have not done that in the past and shouldn’t start now.”

    Teams do it all the time….whether ifs right or not is a different discussion but with the new CBA putting limitations on spending I don’t fault teams for exploiting obvious loopholes……

    That said….in this case it wouldn’t be soley to save money….there are other reasons including the velocity did and development of his CU…..not saying they should definitely do it….just that they should probably consider it as an option.

  219. Bronx Jeers March 26th, 2012 at 8:59 am

    Whoever is going to AAA is in for an extra unpleasant experience this season.

  220. Villa Nova-Ya March 26th, 2012 at 9:01 am

    Blake and 86w183 -

    Thanks for the recollection. I knew it was something like that. :)


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