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Garcia not going down without a fight

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 28, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

I fairly certain I’m in a majority when I say this: I fully expect the Yankees to put Freddy Garcia in the bullpen to start the year. Not that he deserves to be there – Garcia was terrific last season, and he’s been terrific this spring — but there’s too much long-term value in Phil Hughes, Ivan Nova and Michael Pineda.

Those three don’t have Garcia’s track record, and they’ve lacked his consistency, but they’re physically capable of being very good – maybe even great — major league starters this season. Their upside is significant, and it’s hard to turn away from that potential when it seems to be big-league ready.

But if the Yankees truly are planning to dump Garcia into the bullpen, Joe Girardi is doing his very best to avoid that impression.

Today, Girardi talked about the need for Nova to improve his fastball command, for Hughes to see continued progress with his cutter, and for Pineda to keep working on the changeup. The big thing Garcia needs to work on? Getting innings. That’s it.

“You look at Freddy’s year last year and it was really good,” Girardi said. “And for a guy that’s not supposed to be pitch well in spring training, he sure has pitched well.”

It’s true, Garcia has been one of the five best starting pitchers in camp this spring, and Girardi even mentioned today that his fastball velocity is a little higher than it was last year. Velocity’s not a huge thing for a guy like Garcia, but Girardi sees it as an indication that his arm speed is good, which helps his split.

“I think when you look at a guy that doesn’t have a lot of time, you’re trying to consider the upside of what you could possibly get because they don’t have the same track record,” Girardi said. “I think you have a pretty good understanding of what Freddy’s going to give you.”

Someone is going to be bumped out of this rotation, and although I still believe it will be Garcia, it seems he’s doing all he can to stick around.

“Somebody’s going to be disappointed,” Girardi said. “That’s the worst part of this, is that somebody’s going to be disappointed. And they’ll have to get over their disappointment and help this team however it is.”

Associated Press photo

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348 Responses to “Garcia not going down without a fight”

  1. Bret The Hitman March 28th, 2012 at 9:21 pm

    In a nutshell.

  2. jacksquat March 28th, 2012 at 9:21 pm

    Look, I’m not saying they have to trade Garcia now, I just think if they can get something decent now they should trade him. I think his value drops in the bullpen, I don’t think they send Nova or Pineda down just to keep Garcia in the rotation.

  3. jacksquat March 28th, 2012 at 9:23 pm

    but there’s too much long-term value in Phil Hughes, Ivan Nova and Michael Pineda.

    There is not long term value in Hughes. He has one more year, then he’s a free agent. However, that’s one more year than Garcia so it’s beneficial if Hughes can be good.

  4. LGY March 28th, 2012 at 9:23 pm

    Garcia in the rotation, I believe, will come down to how much weight Girardi pulls in the meeting when this decision is made.

  5. jacksquat March 28th, 2012 at 9:26 pm

    LGY March 28th, 2012 at 9:23 pm
    Garcia in the rotation, I believe, will come down to how much weight Girardi pulls in the meeting when this decision is made.

    Who do you think Girardi would pick to be out of the rotation then?

  6. LGY March 28th, 2012 at 9:27 pm

    Girardi’s job is to put the best team on the field on a daily basis and given the uncertain job security surrounding all coaches in professional sports, long term thinking generally needs to put on the back burner.

    Given Garcia had a 122 ERA+ last season, he is one of their 5 best starters, until proven otherwise.

  7. luis March 28th, 2012 at 9:30 pm

    Bret,

    You are very respectful when you argue

  8. ron March 28th, 2012 at 9:31 pm

    From fangraphs,about pineda.Very interesting.

    So, time to panic?

    No, not really. As the 2011 season wore on, Pineda decided that it wasn’t in his best interests to come out firing at full velocity from the first pitch. He wanted to be more efficient early in games, so rather than coming out and throwing 97 and striking everyone out, he decided to ease off the fastball in the first inning or two and try to get some quick outs on the ground.

    For instance, here are the first 10 pitches from his Pitch F/x log during his August 21st start against Tampa Bay from last year.

    Fastball: 89.2
    Fastball: 90.2
    Fastball: 90.3
    Fastball: 91.0
    Change-Up: 85.5
    Fastball: 93.9
    Fastball: 91.8
    Slider: 83.8
    Slider: 83.6
    Fastball: 93.7

    He didn’t crack 94, and the average velocity was just over 91. The results were still fine, as he retired the side in order in the first inning, including getting two strikeouts, but the velocity wasn’t what he had shown earlier in the year. Later in the game, however, he was sitting 94-95 with regularity, and he finished the day with six innings pitched, allowing just six hits, no walks, and five strikeouts. It took him 94 pitches to throw those six innings.

    Essentially, this development just isn’t new. Pineda spent a good part of the second half of 2011 experimenting with pitching at reduced velocities early in games, and then he cranked up the volume when he needed to as the game wore on. Now, I think an argument could be made that it’s a little disconcerting that Pineda feels it’s necessary to start games with diminished velocity, suggesting that perhaps he doesn’t feel he can throw in the mid-90s for 100 pitches per start over a full season. However, his performances from 2011 suggest that he’s choosing to throw at lower velocities early in starts, and you’d certainly rather have velocity loss be due to something that the pitcher can change when he wants to, rather than simply being unable to throw as hard as he used to.

    Bottom line – this just isn’t really something to be overly concerned with. He only threw two innings in an exhibition game, and did so after being strongly encouraged to work on his change-up during Spring Training. For Pineda, there was no incentive to come out throwing 95, and he’s already shown that he prefers to work at lower velocities early in games.

    If it’s mid-April and he’s trying to keep the Yankees in a regular season game and can’t get his fastball over 92, then it’s cause for alarm. Now, though, it’s just not really something that anyone should spend much time worrying about.

  9. LGY March 28th, 2012 at 9:31 pm

    Who do you think Girardi would pick to be out of the rotation then?

    ———

    Good question. I really can’t say with any confidence but I believe either Hughes or Pineda would be the odd man out. I think Girardi would either send Hughes to the bullpen or Pineda to AAA.

  10. m March 28th, 2012 at 9:34 pm

    A whole lot of somebodies will be upset.

    It’s not fair, but baseball isn’t a fair game. One more decent start from Nova and Hughes locks up their spots.

  11. MTU March 28th, 2012 at 9:34 pm

    LGY-

    I don’t agree.

    Hughes is in the Ro.

    It would be between Pineda and Nova for the last spot.

    I could be wrong but frankly I don’t think the Yankees would have the nerve to send Pineda to AAA.

    Personally I hope Freddy goes to the pen.

  12. Eroc March 28th, 2012 at 9:35 pm

    Cashman has been talking up Hughes all winter and he has had an OK spring, so I imagine Hughes in the rotation will be forced on Joe/Larry by Cashman.

    They’re paying Garcia $5 mil and he had a very good year last year, has been excellent this spring… Girardi is a loyal guy, I have to believe he would want him in the rotation to let him prove he can’t do it rather than just assume he’ll revert back to mediocrity because Bill James said so

  13. m March 28th, 2012 at 9:36 pm

    Bret is respectful when it comes to baseball…women? That’s another story. :mad:

  14. luis March 28th, 2012 at 9:38 pm

    Guys,

    Hughes has his FB back…His CB has some bite again…His CU is looking good….What i don’t like is Girardi insisting that he works on his cutter, IMO he should scrap that pitch and learn a splitter.

    He will be in the rotation unless he is injured.

  15. Yank 97 March 28th, 2012 at 9:39 pm

    I tend to agree with LGY

    The idea of making this a competition was stupid to begin, Garcia was always the guy who was the odd man out unless other guys got hurt or sucked.

    That’s the theme of Chief’s Yankee tenure though – always underappreciated and always the guy who people wanted to replace despite his good performances.

  16. LGY March 28th, 2012 at 9:40 pm

    MTU

    Last season Hughes took Nova’s spot in the rotation despite Nova pitching well because Hughes had that 2010 season for Girardi to look back on. It’s the opposite now.

    Given the most recent sample including Girardi trusting Nova in Game 2 of the ALDS you have to think Nova is in better graces with the manager than Hughes

  17. MTU March 28th, 2012 at 9:40 pm

    If they think this decsion is tough just wait till they have to dump someone for AP.

    ;)

  18. m March 28th, 2012 at 9:40 pm

    I don’t believe Hughes is the odd man out. I don’t think he’s traded this spring unless it’s part if a seal for Swisher’s eventual replacement. I don’t think he goes to the pen. And I doubt he goes to AAA the first two months.

  19. luis March 28th, 2012 at 9:41 pm

    luis March 28th, 2012 at 9:27 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock March 28th, 2012 at 9:10 pm

    luis, must be my DMT molecules linking my unconscious to the Land of the Rising Son. Who knows? Maybe I speak Venezuelan argot in my sleep, but forget it all when I’m awake ;) .

    ============================

    Sorry i didn’t answer before, had to go and have dinner. Maybe it is, who knows. But you wrote it like a Venezuelan would do! ;)

  20. Pat M. March 28th, 2012 at 9:42 pm

    m……All Hughes had to do is come to camp in good shape, healthy and not stink the joint up and he was getting a rotation spot…..Now, he’s exceeded all of these criteria and it’s a done deal…..Freddy Garcia is going to be the 6th starter / swing-man…..The real issue will be when Pettite returns to form and hops on the plane to LGA

  21. MTU March 28th, 2012 at 9:42 pm

    LGY-

    There is much more at stake with Hughes.

    This is a crtical year for him IMO.

    They need to know what they have.

    Especially now that he’s healthy and pitching well.

    He’ll be in the Ro IMO.

  22. Jerkface March 28th, 2012 at 9:43 pm

    That fangraphs article is silly. First of all it uses only the first 10 pitches, says he doesn’t crack 94 when he does hit 93.9 and ignores the fact that pinedas velocity has been down for a lot more than 10 pitches which is such a pitiful sample that I doubt anyone would care about any 10 pitch grouping. And if you go start by start he frequently hit 94 plus in the early innings.

  23. Tank March 28th, 2012 at 9:44 pm

    Girardi has no attachment to Hughes like Cashman does. Cashman wants approval by his peers that he can actually develop someone and Hughes is his last lifeline to hang onto until Banuelos gets here. Of course Cashman is going to shove Hughes down everyone’s throat. Girardi, on the other hand, is probably only concerned with winning, as he should be. He wants the 5 guys he can trust and he feels the best with.

    Either way, it is a long season. Who thought Nova would be their 2nd best pitcher last year and Garcia would be their savior?

    Guys looking good or bad in ST means nothing in the long term. Hughes could get injured or empty his tank in the 1st half and flame out in the 2nd half. Someone is going to go for Andy eventually too, so whoever survives the initial round still is in competition.

  24. blake March 28th, 2012 at 9:44 pm

    Girardi loves Freddy and I do think he’d like to have him in the rotation….but this decision is probably going to come down to actually trying to develop that young starting pitching that they want so badly….you can’t develop it if you don’t let the young guys pitch….so I’m expecting them to go with the guys that have a potential future with the club despite the fact that Garcia deserves to be in there based on track record.

  25. LGY March 28th, 2012 at 9:45 pm

    m……All Hughes had to do is come to camp in good shape, healthy and not stink the joint up and he was getting a rotation spot

    ——–

    Why is Hughes consistently held to such low standards by the Yankees?

  26. m March 28th, 2012 at 9:46 pm

    Luis,

    The fact that Girardi felt the need to mention the cutter just means to me that he had to say something for the sake if saying something. He’s really done all they asked him to do.

    Nova may be a Girardi fave, but if Hughes is first half 2010 Hughes, then he might wiggle his way into Girardi’s good graces.

  27. blake March 28th, 2012 at 9:47 pm

    Yankeesource ? @YankeeSource
    M’s scout saw Gary Sanchez and said: “no wonder Montero was expendable.

    I do like Sanchez….but his swing isn’t on the same level as Montero’s yet….he’s got some serious pop though and it sounds like he can stick at catcher if he puts in the work

  28. luis March 28th, 2012 at 9:47 pm

    There is much more at stake with Hughes.

    This is a crtical year for him IMO.

    ==============================

    Here lies the conundrum of the issue. If he doesn’t performs, he is toast. I think he will excel, he learned from last year a great deal. If he doesn’t, then it’s on him.

    The real tough decision will be made when and if Andy is ready.

  29. MTU March 28th, 2012 at 9:48 pm

    I don’t really care what the Yankees do as long as it meets 2 basic criteria :

    It gives them the best chance to win.

    It does not compromise the long-term future of the staff.

    Hopefully, those 2 things are not in conflict.

  30. blake March 28th, 2012 at 9:49 pm

    “Why is Hughes consistently held to such low standards by the Yankees?”

    I don’t think it’s that so much as they have invested so much time in him that they owe it to themselves to find out once and for all what he is….he was pretty good at times in 2010 and was one of the best pitching prospects in baseball just a few years ago….so my guess is they want to play it out and see where it goes.

  31. Yank 97 March 28th, 2012 at 9:52 pm

    “Why is Hughes consistently held to such low standards by the Yankees?”

    I’ve always wondered the same thing. Cashman this winter tried to temper everyone by saying that Pineda is all about projection and he’s not a front-line guy yet and there are no front-line guys with only 2 pitches and he needs to work to get there

    I must have missed that rich, consistent assortment of pitches that Hughes has shown at the ML level to where Cashman said he will win 15 games and be a front-line guy this year if he is healthy.

    This watered down version of Pineda is at least as good as a fully healthy/functional Hughes. I just think there is a segment of the fanbase/organization that has a vested interest in him because they want to say the Yankees developed someone from their farm – thus, every positive morsel is overblown.

  32. Pat M. March 28th, 2012 at 9:53 pm

    LGY….I have Ritter bars invested on this theory……Besides they see him as part of the future which is now for him…….He’s still pretty young guy

  33. m March 28th, 2012 at 9:54 pm

    It’s not that he’s held to a low standard. It’s that he’s back to his old self.

    People think Phil goofed off last season. No. He was injured.

    Healthy Hughes is good Hughes. I don’t blame people for getting frustrated with Phil because he’s been injured so much. But if you don’t think Phil is good enough to be in this rotation, then that’s a you problem, not a Phil problem.

  34. blake March 28th, 2012 at 9:55 pm

    Frankie Piliere ? @FrankiePiliere

    Matt Barnes couldn’t have looked better today. Up to 97, plus CB, CH solid. Just walked right thru the lineup #redsox
    8h

    Frankie Piliere Frankie Piliere ? @FrankiePiliere

    In Port Charlotte today. Boston’s prospects in town. Matt Barnes looking nasty. 93-96 early #redsox

    no pumping up Red Sox prospects Frankie….they have everyone else …you’re supposed to be OUR guy!

  35. MTU March 28th, 2012 at 9:56 pm

    I want to know what Hughes is.

    The only way to find out is for him to start.

    This is the Last train to Gun Hill for him.

    I hope he silences his critics.

    I’m pulling for him.

    ;)

  36. luis March 28th, 2012 at 9:58 pm

    m March 28th, 2012 at 9:46 pm

    Luis,

    The fact that Girardi felt the need to mention the cutter just means to me that he had to say something for the sake if saying something. He’s really done all they asked him to do.

    Nova may be a Girardi fave, but if Hughes is first half 2010 Hughes, then he might wiggle his way into Girardi’s good graces.

    ===========================

    M,

    My concern lies in that he used the cutter effectively in the first half of 2010, but he fell in love with the pitch. I don’t think is good enough to be a primary weapon. If Girardi wants to say something for the sake of saying something, let him concentrate in the CB or CU. Every time he got hurt, it was mostly on the cutter. This spring has not been any different.

    In the case of Nova, i think Girardi loves his mental make up. He always manages to rise to the challenge. I remember when i played ball, the manager always put a certain pitcher to start the big game, not because he had the best stuff ( in fact there were two or three with much better stuff), but because he had such a mental strength, that he always found a way to win. It was incredible.

  37. MTU March 28th, 2012 at 9:58 pm

    And Ivan Nova has overcome every challenge that has been thrown in front of him.

    He’s earned a spot. He’s in.

    That leaves Freddy or Pineda.

    I know who I’m goin’ with there.

    ;)

  38. LGY March 28th, 2012 at 9:59 pm

    If Pat is right this isn’t the first time with Hughes.

    He took Joba’s spot in the rotation for pretty much just showing up in 2010. He took Nova’s spot in the rotation last year despite Nova pitching to a 3.42 ERA in his previous 13 starts, and according to Pat is displacing a pitcher with a 122 ERA+ last season by just showing up to camp in shape.

    As a fan I wonder why the org makes it so easy for Hughes. Maybe that’s why he felt it was ok to show up in camp out of shape last season.

  39. GreenBeret7 March 28th, 2012 at 10:02 pm

    If NYYs and fans give up early on Hughes because he’s been injured like they gave up early on Al Lieter, they deserve everything they don’t get. And all Lieter could control at that time was a big fastball.

  40. LGY March 28th, 2012 at 10:03 pm

    m March 28th, 2012 at 9:54 pm
    It’s not that he’s held to a low standard. It’s that he’s back to his old self.

    People think Phil goofed off last season. No. He was injured.

    Healthy Hughes is good Hughes. I don’t blame people for getting frustrated with Phil because he’s been injured so much. But if you don’t think Phil is good enough to be in this rotation, then that’s a you problem, not a Phil problem.

    —————–

    I assume by old self you mean 2010? If that’s the standard he pitched to 103 ERA+

    Why is his old self a better option than Garcia? Or Nova or Pineda?

  41. m March 28th, 2012 at 10:04 pm

    From what I got from Phil is that he didn’t want to push it that hard after throwing an increased workload. (I take that to mean throwing in the winter)

    He was 8 lbs over reporting weight.

    He regrets both and has moved forward. Maybe the rest of us can move forward, too.

  42. Pat M. March 28th, 2012 at 10:06 pm

    LGY…..I have always believed that the Front Office knows that when healthy Phil Hughes can be a top 10 pitcher…..The sad thing is how that has been derailed several times…..He should not have been put in the bullpen in 09, he should have been in the rotation….Then again he was lights out……If he’s over the false starts they might have the bonfide guy they have always felt he was…..

  43. MTU March 28th, 2012 at 10:07 pm

    Pat M.-

    And there is only 1 way to find out.

    ;)

  44. luis March 28th, 2012 at 10:08 pm

    LGY,

    In this case i have to disagree with you. Yes, they gave the starting job to him for showing up in both instances, but he had one hell of a season in 2010. Last year he was hurt and he had seniority. And this comes from a person that believes that Nova’s mental make up is far better than Hughes. Not trying to diss Hughes, he is not weak by any means, but Nova is stronger, but with lesser stuff.

    The problem is that you still have 4 years of control of Nova, while with Hughes they have only two more. They have to know what they have in him, is as simple as that.

  45. J. Alfred Prufrock March 28th, 2012 at 10:09 pm

    the manager always put a certain pitcher to start the big game, not because he had the best stuff ( in fact there were two or three with much better stuff), but because he had such a mental strength, that he always found a way to win. It was incredible.
    ////

    luis, sounds like Andrew Eugene Pettitte :D.

  46. m March 28th, 2012 at 10:10 pm

    In every other post I’ve written about 2010 Hughes, I’ve mentioned first-half 2010 Hughes.

    There is talk (yes outside LoHud) that he is back to first half 2010 Hughes.

  47. MTU March 28th, 2012 at 10:10 pm

    Luis-

    “They have to know what they have in him, is as simple as that.”

    Exactamundo Hombre.

    That’s the crux of it.

    ;)

  48. J. Alfred Prufrock March 28th, 2012 at 10:12 pm

    So C is tweeting back and forth with Hughes.

    Does someone want to dis C for tweeting?

    To his face?

  49. Pat M. March 28th, 2012 at 10:16 pm

    I wish that guy showed up for Game 6 in Arizona back in 2001..

  50. LGY March 28th, 2012 at 10:17 pm

    In every other post I’ve written about 2010 Hughes, I’ve mentioned first-half 2010 Hughes.

    There is talk (yes outside LoHud) that he is back to first half 2010 Hughes.

    ——-

    First half Hughes consisted of an insane start to the season with 6 starts of 1.38 ERA.

    From his seventh start until the ASB he pitched to a 5.08 ERA in 10 starts.

  51. luis March 28th, 2012 at 10:17 pm

    luis, sounds like Andrew Eugene Pettitte :D .

    ++==================

    Very perceptive my dear friend! :)

  52. Best To Ever Do It March 28th, 2012 at 10:17 pm

    As a fan I wonder why the org makes it so easy for Hughes

    ——————–

    He’s the boy wonder no matter what happens he gets another shot.

  53. GreenBeret7 March 28th, 2012 at 10:20 pm

    Jesus H. Christ….name a starter that has been better than Hughes this spring. They haven’t made anything easy for Hughes. He’s earned it.

  54. Best To Ever Do It March 28th, 2012 at 10:21 pm

    I just think there is a segment of the fanbase/organization that has a vested interest in him because they want to say the Yankees developed someone from their farm – thus, every positive morsel is overblown.

    ———————-

    Finally someone said it.

  55. Best To Ever Do It March 28th, 2012 at 10:23 pm

    GreenBeret7 March 28th, 2012 at 10:20 pm

    Jesus H. Christ….name a starter that has been better than Hughes this spring. They haven’t made anything easy for Hughes. He’s earned it.

    —————-

    He has pitched that no one can deny that but once again they stage another battle with him as the favorite.

  56. luis March 28th, 2012 at 10:23 pm

    JAP,

    Last year i was having a discussion with Ghostwriter about which pitcher had a case for the HOF between Mussina and Pettitte. I said that Mussina had better numbers, but given the choice in a big game i would pick Andy every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

  57. Best To Ever Do It March 28th, 2012 at 10:26 pm

    Pitched well*

  58. LGY March 28th, 2012 at 10:26 pm

    Jesus H. Christ….name a starter that has been better than Hughes this spring. They haven’t made anything easy for Hughes. He’s earned it.

    ——–

    Since when do intelligent baseball fans care about spring training results?

  59. luis March 28th, 2012 at 10:27 pm

    JAP,

    The guy i’m talking about had the same trait as Andy. He had that thing that you can’t teach, you either have it or not.

  60. GreenBeret7 March 28th, 2012 at 10:28 pm

    What the Hell does it matter if it was “staged” if he earns it? Should everyone pray that he bombs so NYYs don’t have to pay him and a certain “segment of the fanbase who have a vested interest” can crow about being right?

  61. GreenBeret7 March 28th, 2012 at 10:30 pm

    LGY March 28th, 2012 at 10:26 pm
    Jesus H. Christ….name a starter that has been better than Hughes this spring. They haven’t made anything easy for Hughes. He’s earned it.

    ——–

    Since when do intelligent baseball fans care about spring training results?

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Well, surely you and your little buddy do. you’ve been complaining about Ibanez since the first day.

  62. jacksquat March 28th, 2012 at 10:30 pm

    I’m not on the Hughes bandwagon as much as the prospect huggers and sometimes vicious defenders (you know who you are), but

    1. Hughes worked hard in the offseason and came to camp in very good shape, much better than last year.

    2. He has pitched fairly well overall in spring training. The very low walk number is particularly good.

    3. He has a higher upside than Garcia.

    4. He could give the Yankees two years of starting at a salary below the market value of his performance.

    For all those reason he should be in the rotation. However I still see him as a little lower than Pineda and Nova until he shows me more in the regular season.

  63. MTU March 28th, 2012 at 10:31 pm

    Have a good night people.

    We’re gonna have our answer(s) soon enough.

    Oh to be a fly on the wall.

    ;)

  64. LGY March 28th, 2012 at 10:32 pm

    Well, surely you and your little buddy do. you’ve been complaining about Ibanez since the first day.

    ——–

    Find me one post from ST where I said a single negative thing about Ibanez.

  65. mick March 28th, 2012 at 10:32 pm

    it’s so cool when 2 athletes talk to each other in a public forum, makes some fanboys wet i bet…

  66. GreenBeret7 March 28th, 2012 at 10:33 pm

    MTU March 28th, 2012 at 10:31 pm
    Have a good night people.

    We’re gonna have our answer(s) soon enough.

    Oh to be a fly on the wall.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    There’s a lot in here that I wish were flies on the wall and I was a can of indudtrial strength Raid.

  67. GreenBeret7 March 28th, 2012 at 10:34 pm

    ***industrial***

  68. luis March 28th, 2012 at 10:34 pm

    GN MTU take care

  69. Pat M. March 28th, 2012 at 10:34 pm

    luis…..Hey, I’m a big Andy Pettite fan and he has turned in some big wins, but let’s not immortalize him as this big game lights out pitcher….Especially in the World Series…….Love the guy, but he’s never going to be confused with Whitey Ford

  70. LGY March 28th, 2012 at 10:38 pm

    I very rarely even watch ST so there’s nothing for me to even comment on in regard to Ibanez. I’ve probably watched 9 innings total and seen maybe two at bats from Ibanez.

  71. luis March 28th, 2012 at 10:39 pm

    Pat M. March 28th, 2012 at 10:34 pm

    luis…..Hey, I’m a big Andy Pettite fan and he has turned in some big wins, but let’s not immortalize him as this big game lights out pitcher….Especially in the World Series…….Love the guy, but he’s never going to be confused with Whitey Ford

    =============================================

    LOL! I would never commit that sin!…But the choice being between Moose and Pettitte i pick the latter without any second thoughts. If you give me El Duque and Andy…..I pick El Duque.
    But Whitey is in another league.

  72. mick March 28th, 2012 at 10:39 pm

    the fair thing would be to take all 6 pitchers north….no sense in hurting feelings they all deserve it and if not for andy there would be no question

    besides you need a longman…who would that be if not freddy?

  73. tucker March 28th, 2012 at 10:42 pm

    I think there was not much of an excuse for Hughes to show up overweight, particularly with his history of injuries. An innings hangover or a tired shoulder do not prevent you from running, doing cardio, etc and otherwise show up in shape.

    That said, I think Hughes got the message loud and clear. The Yanks attempted to trade him last year for Ubaldo Jimenez. He is In great shape and ready to pitch. It’s really time for him to prove himself, and so far, he is responding.

  74. J. Alfred Prufrock March 28th, 2012 at 10:47 pm

    luis March 28th, 2012 at 10:23 pm
    JAP,

    Last year i was having a discussion with Ghostwriter about which pitcher had a case for the HOF between Mussina and Pettitte. I said that Mussina had better numbers, but given the choice in a big game i would pick Andy every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
    ////

    Andy’s nails. Ice water and all that. One thing I’ll say about Moose, though. He pitched great against Oakland that one year, bailed out Clemens in 2003 ALCS, and pitched a good game against Arizona that got forgotten because we ended up losing.

    But, yes, I’ll take the lefty over Moose. Because he’s a lefty and because he’s Andy Pettitte. :D

  75. mick March 28th, 2012 at 10:48 pm

    until phil proves he is not a flake he should be held to the fire, maybe that’s what he needs, 1st it was winning a spot in ST, now it’s andy’s return hanging over his head, maybe he needs this pressure…

  76. Bret The Hitman March 28th, 2012 at 10:51 pm

    I saw Ibanez swing today and at first thought he was Chavez because of the similar lefty stance and when I saw how slow his bat was I literally gasped and thought “Why did they bring back Chavez. He’s cooked!” Then i realized it was Ibanez. On the next pitch he guessed right and nearly hit a HR but he’s not the kind of guy who can hit good pitching I don’t think.

    I’m not saying something needs to be done about him now but I’ve been thinking about this waiver wire move to add that catcher (Craig Tatum)…

    And I’ve been thinking about Martin getting a 3-4 year deal and finally being healthy…

    And thinking Gary Sanchez might be ready in 3-4 years…

    And think the Yankees could want to promote Romine in 2012 to backup Martin and push Sanchez when he arrives. I realize Romine’s bat could use more reps in AAA but if he’s not going to start ahead of Martin by the time Sanchez is ready, what’s the point? If he’s going to be a backup, why not make him the backup now?

    And that brings me to Cervelli.

    I would think an NL team would want him because he could possibly start in an NL lineup. He can hit and run, sacrifice, bunt, run the bases, play good all around defense.

    Would the Yankees still have their target on Garrett Jones for LH DH and OF in place of Ibanez?

    How about Francisco Cervelli + Justin Maxwell for Garrett Jones?

  77. GreenBeret7 March 28th, 2012 at 10:52 pm

    Since nobody is likely to be traded or moved down until the Yanks see what happens with Pettitte as far as effectiveness or health and you have 4 starters for three spots, just put each of them in the been for about 10days after they make their start. Pretty obvious that /Hughes, Nova and Pineda should have their innings controlled to get them around 175-180 innings for the year. Let Rothschild and Girardi do the work schedule. Everybody is busy any stays sharp, nobody gets overworked and Sabathia gets his innings on a regular schedule. that should last until they have an answer on Pettitte. Nobody works out of the bullpen more than twice between those starts. If Pettitte is good to go, try to work a trade for Garcia. That should bring it to the 1st of June anyway.

  78. Rich in NJ March 28th, 2012 at 10:53 pm

    How many starts will the 5th starter get in April? Probably a small enough amount that Garcia is the best choice.

  79. luis March 28th, 2012 at 10:55 pm

    Bret,

    Lets wait if Romine can stay healthy first. Then….i am all ears. ;)

  80. Rich in NJ March 28th, 2012 at 10:56 pm

    Romine needs as many mL AB as he can get.

  81. Bret The Hitman March 28th, 2012 at 10:56 pm

    And now I realize that the Pirates have no use for Maxwell because they are playing Jones at 1b.

    But I wonder if an NL team wants Cervelli.

    I know the Dodgers tried to acquire him before they non-tendered Martin. Cervelli was rumored in a trade for Martin.

    So I would think the Dodgers being without a catcher are interested in Cervelli still.

  82. luis March 28th, 2012 at 10:57 pm

    Rich in NJ March 28th, 2012 at 10:53 pm

    How many starts will the 5th starter get in April? Probably a small enough amount that Garcia is the best choice.

    =================================

    Who goes down? and who is the long man?

  83. Bret The Hitman March 28th, 2012 at 10:58 pm

    Rich in NJ,

    I agree Romine needs mL AB but if he’s going to be a backup to Martin and later Sanchez, would you feel confident that he could do what Cervelli does with the bat? I would. And his defense is ML ready.

  84. mick March 28th, 2012 at 10:58 pm

    just put each of them in the been for about 10days after they make their start.
    =================
    what does this even mean?

  85. GreenBeret7 March 28th, 2012 at 11:00 pm

    There’s 23 regular season games in april. 2 days off and 1 day off between end of ST and season opener.

  86. Rich in NJ March 28th, 2012 at 11:01 pm

    “I agree Romine needs mL AB but if he’s going to be a backup to Martin and later Sanchez, would you feel confident that he could do what Cervelli does with the bat? I would. And his defense is ML ready.”

    Given his probable contract demands and their desire to reduce payroll going forward, the Yankees need to give Romine a chance to supplant Martin. So if Romine is ever going to reach his ceiling, whatever that is, he needs to play everyday in the mL.

  87. Bronx Jeers March 28th, 2012 at 11:02 pm

    I think Hughes pitched better this Spring than he did in The Great Arms Race back in spring 2010.

    Back then it was whoever throws the first change up, wins.

  88. mick March 28th, 2012 at 11:02 pm

    skipping turns throws them off….they didnt do it last year , why now?

  89. Bret The Hitman March 28th, 2012 at 11:03 pm

    And there is also the issue of having Russell Martin make excessive demands or being lured by a catching starved team willing to overpay him as a free agent. If you reach that situation and you don’t have any major league experience for Romine, that’s probably not a good thing. And I think you have to keep Cervelli as well…so this Tatum thing is probably just a spring training band-aid to give the catchers a breather.

  90. Rich in NJ March 28th, 2012 at 11:03 pm

    luis

    As I said last night, Nova. The 5th starter can serve as the long man to stay sharp, if he gets skipped. If he isn’t, then Wade/Logan can be the long men.

  91. Bret The Hitman March 28th, 2012 at 11:04 pm

    And since you have to keep Cervelli then I guess the only place for Romine is AAA.

  92. luis March 28th, 2012 at 11:04 pm

    Bronx Jeers March 28th, 2012 at 11:02 pm

    I think Hughes pitched better this Spring than he did in The Great Arms Race back in spring 2010.

    Back then it was whoever throws the first change up, wins.

    =========================================

    No question about this year .But in 2010 Joba had four pitches, including a CU.

  93. Bret The Hitman March 28th, 2012 at 11:05 pm

    So i changed my mind.

    Would be nice to upgrade Ibanez though.

  94. luis March 28th, 2012 at 11:06 pm

    Is true Rich you did say it….I am so tired that i am not thinking straight…I better go to bed.

    Good night everyone.

  95. Rich in NJ March 28th, 2012 at 11:07 pm

    GN, luis

  96. Pat M. March 28th, 2012 at 11:07 pm

    This will the season that Giradi will be slightly more conscious of Sabathia’s innings as well…..

  97. Jerkface March 28th, 2012 at 11:07 pm

    They can skip the 5th starter once in April.

  98. mick March 28th, 2012 at 11:08 pm

    whats the over/under on cc’s innings?

  99. Rich in NJ March 28th, 2012 at 11:09 pm

    So the 5th starter gets 3 or 4 starts in April?

  100. Jerkface March 28th, 2012 at 11:09 pm

    And once in May.

  101. Jerkface March 28th, 2012 at 11:10 pm

    3 starts in april if they skip. 5 in may if they skip.

  102. GreenBeret7 March 28th, 2012 at 11:11 pm

    Notes from Josh Norris and the Trenton and AAA teams and Charston vs Tampa teams, with video.

    http://minormatterstrenton.blo.....day-3.html

  103. GreenBeret7 March 28th, 2012 at 11:11 pm

    ***Charleston***

  104. Nick in SF March 28th, 2012 at 11:13 pm

    Between Hughes/Nova/Pineda you have three pitchers who are some combination of young and question marks. Do they want to start the season with three such pitchers plus “welcome to the AL East, Kuroda-san” along with CC?

    Wouldn’t shock me if wily vet Freddy wasn’t in the rotation to start the season along with Hughes, with one of Nova/Pineda the odd man out to start the season. Eventually, pending his progress as well as that of the others, wily lefty vet Andy Pettitte replaces Garcia.

  105. Bret The Hitman March 28th, 2012 at 11:15 pm

    Or you could wait until the trade deadline when the Dodgers are out. Would they be willing to trade 1/2 season of Andre Ethier for a future starting catcher in Cervelli and maybe a couple AAA starters like Phelps and Warren, Warren and Mitchell or Mitchell and Phelps? Ethier would upgrade Ibanez, help the Yankees advance deeper in the playoffs possibly and give them draft picks as a Type A free agent or save them draft picks it would of cost if he was ever in their plans to replace Swisher.

    Then you could call up Austin Romine and get him some ML experience before you have to deal with Martin’s negotiations. And this way you get Romine reps in the first half of 2012 and major league experience in the second.

  106. Pat M. March 28th, 2012 at 11:20 pm

    Nick in SF……At the end of the last thread I posted my over / unders for this season…..At least the bigger ticket items…..Baseball fans, especially Dodger fans are celebrating the new ownership with open arms………Can’t wait to hear Vinny Scully’s take on the ownership……

  107. Rich in NJ March 28th, 2012 at 11:22 pm

    You start Garcia, and if a trade offer comes along that is appealing, you move him.

  108. Bret The Hitman March 28th, 2012 at 11:24 pm

    Eventually, pending his progress as well as that of the others, wily lefty vet Andy Pettitte replaces Garcia.

    ********************

    And how long do you keep Nova or Pineda in AAA?

  109. pat March 28th, 2012 at 11:42 pm

    mlbtraderumors

    Kei Igawa Signs With Orix Buffaloes http://bit.ly/Hh5oC4 #mlb

  110. tucker March 28th, 2012 at 11:45 pm

    It wouldn’t surprise me to see Hughes shipped at the trade deadline for a decent bat. He will only have 1.5 years before free agency. Next year, bring in one of the AAA starters and one of Pettitte/Kuroda /Garcia.

  111. m March 28th, 2012 at 11:47 pm

    There is some sad karma going on with red sox. Never mind that 8 of the guys on their 40-man roster is on the DL.

    But the player who came over a’s compensation for Theo is headed to Dr. Andrews to get his elbow cleaned up. The Sox, the Nation, and PeteAbe cried and cried about getting proper compensation for Theo. Looks like the books are pretty balanced right now.

  112. Nick in SF March 28th, 2012 at 11:49 pm

    “And how long do you keep Nova or Pineda in AAA?”

    That depends on how the person is pitching, probably, and how everyone else is doing too, but at a certain point it makes some sense to keep the pitcher down there to get the extra year of control, no? Now for all I know the odd man out will just start the season as the long man and not go to AAA at all, and perhaps they’ll still with the ‘all hands on deck’ philosophy all season long, future budgets be damned. But it would not shock me to see Nova or Pineda to start the season in AAA.

    Pat M, I’ll check them out. I haven’t made my season-long investments yet, aside from a few props related to the Athletics and Mariners.

  113. Rich in NJ March 28th, 2012 at 11:58 pm

    “It wouldn’t surprise me to see Hughes shipped at the trade deadline for a decent bat.”

    If he is pitching well enough to bring back a decent bat, he is probably the kind of pitcher that would provide, in Cashman’s words, “the keys to the kingdom.” Plus, he is reaching the age when he is moving past the injury matrix. unlike, for example, Pineda.

  114. tucker March 29th, 2012 at 12:19 am

    So you get two years of Hughes, and then he is no longer affordable under the Yanks new fiscal austerity. If they are convinced he is past his injuries and ready to perform as a mid-rotation starter or better, then they should extend him soon.

  115. G. Love March 29th, 2012 at 12:20 am

    I don’t trust Hughes just yet off a great spring training. Let’s see him be consistent and throw more than one pitch for strikes as a starter before we start calling him a top of the rotation starter. Has he looked good this spring? Yes. But since when are the Yankees making decisions just on spring results? If that was the case Ibanez wouldn’t make the opening day roster.

    I wouldn’t blame Girardi for being skittish about using Hughes as he’s been burned by him before.

    We’re also assuming he won’t get injured or do his “hide an injury” thing at some point this season.

    Nova earned the spot in the rotation with his season last year more than Hughes has earned anything by showing up this spring in shape.

    I do fear that Nova is going to get sent to AAA though.

    Hughes is a “coaches son”. That’s how he’s always been treated here. He’ll get the spot. I hope this is the season he actually seizes it and does something with it.

    Freddy doesn’t deserve to be long man any more than any of the guys do, but at this point I can’t imagine Cashman can get fair value in any trade for Freddy.

    I think he has to keep his starting pitching depth since one injury changes the whole complexion.

  116. Rich in NJ March 29th, 2012 at 12:24 am

    We don’t have to trust Hughes now (I don’t trust Pineda either), but if it turns out to be for real (he is going to get the chance to prove it), he is more important than Martin or Swisher in terms of allocating their resources over the next few years, and therefore, probably within their budget.

  117. G. Love March 29th, 2012 at 12:28 am

    Rich,

    You don’t think Hughes, if he pitches well this season, won’t hold the Yankees up for a big bucks extension when his time comes? He’ll get one in arbitration if he’s as good as people think he will be.

    I’m sure he’s none too thrilled with the shuffling between rotation and bullpen the Yankees did with him and I can see him trying to squeeze every last cent from them and still going to a west coast team when he gets the chance.

  118. tucker March 29th, 2012 at 12:35 am

    Hughes’ expectations have always been outsized. He represents Cashman’s initiative to rebuild the farm system. Giambi, reading the company script, touts him as a mini Rocket. I think that, in part, has contributed to his extra-long rope in the organization.

    He may be just what he is: a mid-rotation starter with a decent though not exceptional fastball and secondary stuff that never has been developed with any consistency.

    We’ll see this year.

  119. Rich in NJ March 29th, 2012 at 12:38 am

    G. Love

    I think that he will seek his market value, like any other ballplayer. My reason for retaining him (assuming he finally reaches his potential) is that they have stated that they are a pitching-centric team, so with all they have invested in Hughes, if he finally becomes a #2 starter, isn’t that precisely the kind of pitcher that a team that values pitching wants to keep? If he is, then a #2 starter is worth more than Martin or Swisher, and there should the money available to keep him if they want.

    Maybe Pineda, Nova, and either Banuelos or Betances will be as good or better than Hughes over the next two seasons. If so, they can reassess his value to the team, but again, if he proves to be a #2, I think that’s unlikely.

    If is shows himself to be a #3-#4, then sure, move him or let him go.

    Now, if you can ever get the next Brett Lawrie for him, I hope they move him, because I think offense is at least as important as pitching, if not more, especially if it can play 3B/SS.

  120. m March 29th, 2012 at 12:41 am

    It seems like your projecting your own feelings about Hughes onto Girardi, G. Love.

    You don’t trust him and feel that he’s burned the team.

    I’m sure Girardi would not be foolish enough to let his personal feelings about Hughes get in the way. Because Hughes looks good enough to help this team.

    As far as the shuffling? Hughes wanted to go to the bullpen rather than go down to AAA in 2009. That was his choice.

  121. Rich in NJ March 29th, 2012 at 12:48 am

    Here’s what I am looking for from Hughes:

    1) FB command, the return of late life, kept down in the zone (sitting at 92).
    2) An improved changeup that he can throw for strikes.
    3) A harder curve with the sharp break it had before he pulled his hamstring v. Texas in 2007.

  122. m March 29th, 2012 at 12:48 am

    It seems like people resent Phil for:

    1) taking away something from Joba
    2) not living up to his billing
    3) being injured more often than not

    Some of that is fair to say and some of it isn’t.

  123. m March 29th, 2012 at 12:51 am

    Oi. That should be “request”, not choice.

  124. Nick in SF March 29th, 2012 at 1:01 am

    I forgot about Phil screwing over Joba! :mad:

  125. Betsy March 29th, 2012 at 1:07 am

    IMO, Girardi has to come out the loser on this one. He’s not interested in the long-term future of the franchise; like all managers, he’s most interested in the present and so he’s interested in the sure thing. Freddy is a surer bet than Phil, but Phil has much higher upside and is possibly going to be here long-term. I really find it hard to believe that the cutter is going to be make or break for Phil in terms of the rotation. If Joe thinks it is, that’s a mistake.

    Cashman needs to be making the overall decision here

  126. Betsy March 29th, 2012 at 1:08 am

    Girardi has no business sending Phil to the pen and Cashman can not let him make such a stupid, asinine decision.

  127. Pat M. March 29th, 2012 at 1:12 am

    Bets…..In the Giradi will get his marching orders and will follow them…..Garcia in the role of the swingman and 6th starter…..The hard decision will come in May if Pettite can actually pitch in the bigs again…….

  128. G. Love March 29th, 2012 at 1:12 am

    m,

    I’m not dancing around it. I don’t trust Hughes. It’s not like I don’t trust him because I think he’s a thief and will steal my cheez doodles. I just think he has a tendency of getting handed things in this organization over more deserving candidates.

    Whether it be Joba or the way Nova was treated last season while Hughes walked out proclaiming he felt great and then got his brains beaten in with 88mph straight fastballs. Girardi stuck by him until he couldn’t do it anymore.

    At some point he has to step up. His 18 win season was about as complete a season as Pineda’s all star season last year. Great 1st half. Got an all star nod. Then tanked the rest of the season.

    As a reliever in 2009 he was lights out until the post season rolled around and he was out of bullets and couldn’t set up for Mo in the playoffs. Joba saved our bacon along with Marte in the post season filling in for Hughes who disappeared.

    Last season showing up to camp out of shape and still trying to convince the team and everyone he was healthy just turned me off. He hides injuries from the team. His repertoire is limited in my eyes.

    I prefer Nova to him. Nova was an afterthought in this organization and allowed to be taked in the Rule 5 before being returned. He fought back from that to make himself relevant. When he got his shot he seized it, showed actual development (not rumored development that Hughes only promises) and became an solid part of the rotation.

    I want Hughes to be good. I want him to win.

    What I don’t want is another round on “I really liked the way he threw the ball” post game press conferences after he gets lit up in 4-5 innings while Nova or Garcia are either in AAA or the pen to let Hughes-y work it out.

    He has to put up or shut up this season. If the Yankees hand him another rotation spot off his spectacular spring he has to show the stuff when the games count.

  129. Betsy March 29th, 2012 at 1:15 am

    M, clearly people wanted Phil back in the pen in 2010 or in the minors and Joba in the rotation……..

    Phil has had serious injury issues that have compromised his effectiveness. He’s also had problems of his own making, like not being able to put hitters away and being stubborn about certain things. I think the Yankees owe it to themselves, now that he’s healthy, to see if he can make improvements (they have a terrific pitching coach) needed for him to be a good to very good pitcher long term. He’s still only 25.

  130. Duh Innings March 29th, 2012 at 1:16 am

    Jesus Montero last night:

    0 for 4, 9 pitches taken

  131. m March 29th, 2012 at 1:16 am

    Why do you think Girardi is sending Phil to the pen, Betsy?

    Nobody has written or indicated that is going to happen.

    Everyone is projecting tonight!

  132. Betsy March 29th, 2012 at 1:19 am

    Pat M, as it should be. Coaches and/managers are in it only for themselves and not the team. I love Freddy and I think it sucks that he is in this situation. Joe is probably favoring him because he guaranteed him that he wouldn’t have to audition for a spot. Freddy is a starter, not a long man, and I would trade him, not because we’d get anything back, but because he deserves better. If I were Cashman, I would not even have approached Andy, but it’s too late for that now. I have no idea what will happen when he returns. Someone who is pitching well is going to be unhappy.

  133. Betsy March 29th, 2012 at 1:20 am

    M, I didn’t say he was, but it was broached as a possibility and that would be just ridiculous. Not only would he be wasted, but it would harm his career in terms of trying to be a starter. Just how much back and forth can his arm take? Joe doesn’t get to decide this stuff by himself, so I’m not worried. I don’t think Cashman has any intention of ever putting Phil back in the pen.

  134. m March 29th, 2012 at 1:22 am

    Fair enough, G. Love.

    But your arguments would have gar more merit in the nights he gets “lit up”.

    Hughes is no threat to Nova. I wouldn’t worry about him.

    Are you saying that Freddy deserves the spot over Hughes? That Hughes should be shoved to the side?

  135. m March 29th, 2012 at 1:24 am

    So you just railed out against Girardi for something other people suggested? ;)

  136. Nick in SF March 29th, 2012 at 1:24 am

    Don’t sweat what Girardi says about this stuff. A year ago he waxed poetically about how he could integrate Montero into the lineup, and then we met Gustavo Molina.

    Phil is, in my opinion, safely into the opening season rotation. Perhaps as the 3rd starter of the season.

  137. Betsy March 29th, 2012 at 1:29 am

    M, what are you talking about? All I said was that if Joe should not be making that stupid a decision…….I did not say someone suggested it, I said someone (I believe LGY) said Joe would probably do that.

  138. Rich in NJ March 29th, 2012 at 1:30 am

    I don’t get the Hughes/Joba thing.

    I do agree that Girardi should be ignored.

  139. Rich in NJ March 29th, 2012 at 1:31 am

    “Jesus Montero last night:

    0 for 4, 9 pitches taken”

    Do we really need a running tally on these two players? Jeez.

  140. Betsy March 29th, 2012 at 1:32 am

    Hi Nick

    I’m not worried because at this point I think Phil is very likely going to be in the rotation. I’m fine that someone is taking up for Freddy because he’s earned that; I think he was, for some reason, extremely underestimated last year. I really wish there were some way for him to stay with the team. For those who don’t trust Phil, there’s a good chance he’ll either be traded or sent down when Andy returns.

  141. m March 29th, 2012 at 1:43 am

    Betsy says:
    March 29, 2012 at 1:07 am
    IMO, Girardi has to come out the loser on this one. He’s not interested in the long-term future of the franchise; like all managers, he’s most interested in the present and so he’s interested in the sure thing. Freddy is a surer bet than Phil, but Phil has much higher upside and is possibly going to be here long-term. I really find it hard to believe that the cutter is going to be make or break for Phil in terms of the rotation. If Joe thinks it is, that’s a mistake.

    Cashman needs to be making the overall decision here

    Betsy says:
    March 29, 2012 at 1:08 am
    Girardi has no business sending Phil to the pen and Cashman can not let him make such a stupid, asinine decision.
    —————
    Did I misconstrue these comments? If so, I apologize. But I still don’t get where you’re thinking that Joe is even leaning this way. Does that mean you think that it’s down to Phil and Garcia and that he’ll stick his buddy Garcia in the rotation even though Phil has pitched well enough to earn a spot?

  142. GreenBeret7 March 29th, 2012 at 2:14 am

    RIP, Earl Scruggs. You and Lester are legendary. What fantastic music you gave the world.

  143. Niki March 29th, 2012 at 2:25 am

    G. Love – your 1:12 am post is very good. It states my thoughts exactly.

  144. UnKnown March 29th, 2012 at 2:44 am

    MLB Network is actually going to bring Game 2 in Japan live in about 2 hrs. Glad to see that. The Bart Man is going for the Athletics…

  145. GreenBeret7 March 29th, 2012 at 2:52 am

    Garcia doesn’t have a guaranteed spot in the otation….yet. According to king, Hughes has the #3 spot and the #5 spot is Pineda or Nova…for now. Another shift will come when Pettitte rejoins the Pinstrippers.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....um=twitter

  146. GreenBeret7 March 29th, 2012 at 2:53 am

    ***rotation***

  147. m March 29th, 2012 at 3:40 am

    At this point, I don’t see how nova doesn’t win a spot.

    Garcia gets a spot if the Yankees decide to send Pineda to AAA. otherwise Garcia to the pen.

    Are the night birds coming out? I fell asleep probably minutes before the game started. Looks like it starts an hour earlier tonight.

  148. Jerkface March 29th, 2012 at 4:09 am

    Betsy, sent down is unlikely for hughes if not out of st because he will have 5 years of service at some point before the asb and be able to refuse optioning.

  149. vinny-b March 29th, 2012 at 5:01 am

    it is on (MLB Network). LIVE

  150. vinny-b March 29th, 2012 at 5:04 am

    sidenote:

    if it’s between Nova and Pineda, then Pineda needs to get his @ss sent down. The Yankees owe him for how they handled him last season (ie numbers game). Nova was the Yankees #2 pitcher heading into the playoffs last year

  151. m March 29th, 2012 at 5:17 am

    Sorry, Rosy.

    I’m blacked out again, and it went straight to the Oakland radio broadcast. Gonna keep it here. At least while Colon is in there.

    Last night I listened to neither broadcast. I fell asleep and missed all the action. :(

  152. m March 29th, 2012 at 5:24 am

    Bartolo cruising atm, 6 up, 6 down. Montero strikes out looking.

    Kila Kaaihue playing 1B, hoot, hoot!

  153. GreenBeret7 March 29th, 2012 at 5:35 am

    Carig On Girardi’s view of the rotation

    http://www.nj.com/yankees/inde.....witterfeed

  154. tomingeorgia March 29th, 2012 at 6:24 am

    Good morning!
    Is Bartolo even bigger this spring? Pitching kie a machine, in any case.

  155. tomingeorgia March 29th, 2012 at 6:24 am

    “like a machine”

  156. tomingeorgia March 29th, 2012 at 6:47 am

    Everybody too tuckered out from yesterday morning?

  157. vinny-b March 29th, 2012 at 6:52 am

    no Tom. You have it right. Bartolo look larger

    btw: as Cepesdes hits his first HR, am happy NY didn’t sign him. Don’t like his body type for a CF

  158. vinny-b March 29th, 2012 at 6:53 am

    edit: CF/OF

  159. tomingeorgia March 29th, 2012 at 7:12 am

    Colon through 8 full innings: 1 run, three hits, 6Ks, 1 BB. I love watching the guy pitch.

  160. Triple Short of a Cycle March 29th, 2012 at 7:19 am

    I thought it wasn’t being carried live??? I would have gotten up early to watch it if it was. MLB stinks

  161. Triple Short of a Cycle March 29th, 2012 at 7:23 am

    86 pitches and they pull him??? Guy was pitching lights out.

  162. tomingeorgia March 29th, 2012 at 7:25 am

    Triple,
    Bartolo looked like he could have gone two or three more. Beautiful performance.

  163. blake March 29th, 2012 at 7:36 am

    Well Bartolo apparently just mowed through the Mariners lineup….8 innings….1 run. Montero did get a hit 1-3.

    Cespedes with his first dinger……I think he’s going to struggle once scouting reports get around and he faces the consistent good pitching in that division…..but he’s got lots of talent and lots of power……so he could turn into a nice trade chip…..Beane is probably already shopping him while he’s stock up.

    Re: Hughes…..they have to find out what he his once and for all….he’s healthy…..no more excuses…..no more training wheels…..go out and get it done and earn your spot on the team Phil….I think that’s the approach the Yanks are taking and if the way he’s thrown in ST is an indication then he’s responding and hopefully he will continue to.

  164. MTU March 29th, 2012 at 7:44 am

    GB-

    It sounds to me from the Carig article that Joe G. is leaning towards Garcia.

    Says that Freddy is a known quantity and that needs to be balanced against the potential upside of a less tested starter.

    So. In his mind it sounds like he needs to decide if a guy like Pineda, Nova, or Hughes can give him more than he thinks Garcia can ?

  165. blake March 29th, 2012 at 7:46 am

    I think Girardi would take Freddy…..but I don’t think Girardi will get to decide.

  166. MTU March 29th, 2012 at 7:47 am

    Blake-

    Absolutely.

    Put up or shut up time for Hughes.

    Last chance.

  167. MTU March 29th, 2012 at 7:50 am

    Blake-

    I don’t know if he’ll get the final say and I believe it will be a group decision.

    His input has to carry a lot of weight.

    Most likely if their is a divergence of opinion Cashman will settle it.

  168. Bronx Jeers March 29th, 2012 at 7:54 am

    Garcia’s trade value isn’t going to get any higher coming out of the pen. Plus he’s never really done it and he takes a year and a day to get warmed up. He also happens to be throwing great right now which is ahead of schedule.

    The flip side is that this looks like it could be a season where the Yanks can afford to give 3 youngsters a shot given the state of the AL East. Also there remains the fact that Pettitte is coming so the 3 youngsters wasn’t going to last anyway.

  169. MTU March 29th, 2012 at 7:54 am

    I feel very confident about CC, Kuroda, and Hughes.

    It’s the other 2 spots I wonder about.

    Can’t see them denying Ivan a spot but you never know.

    Garcia vs. Pineda ?

    Who is ikely to give you more ?

    Garcia is steady. Pineda has more upside.

    I don’t think the Yankees have the cajones to send Pineda down. I’ll believe it if and when I see it.

  170. blake March 29th, 2012 at 7:59 am

    Most likely if their is a divergence of opinion Cashman will settle it.”

    Yea I agree….and I think Cash will probably opt for Freddy to the pen because it let’s the kids pitch and continue to develop……as I’ve said…..IMO I think there are two reasonable options 1)Garcia to the pen 2) Pineda to AAA. I think they’ll go with the first but id be fine with either and those are the only appropriate choices to me.

  171. MTU March 29th, 2012 at 8:04 am

    Blake-

    We are on the same page.

    Only concern for me is that they sometimes treat Nova like a red-headed stepchild despite what he has accomplished and overcome.

    I hope they do not decide he is the one again.

    I have no idea what Cashman might decide in the end.

    Perhaps the vote will show a strong consensus one way or another.

  172. upstate kate March 29th, 2012 at 8:07 am

    I don’t put a lot of faith in that article. Girardi is always complimentary of his players.

    My guess is Freddy to the pen, Nova, Pineda, Hughes to start the season. The future is w/ the young guys.

  173. MTU March 29th, 2012 at 8:07 am

    And like I said yesterday, if they think this one is tough just wait till AP returns (if he does).

    That decision might be a real B-breaker (no pun intended).

    ;)

  174. MTU March 29th, 2012 at 8:11 am

    Send Pineda down ?

    Let him continue to work on his CU.

    Get the velo back to where it should be.

    Gain the extra year of control.

    Would the Yankees do that ?

  175. blake March 29th, 2012 at 8:12 am

    “Only concern for me is that they sometimes treat Nova like a red-headed stepchild despite what he has accomplished and overcome”

    That is annoying…..I think they should leave Nova alone until he actually does something on games that matter to suggest otherwise…..guy throws 92-95 mph sinkers with a good developing slider….he’s got upside to…..maybe not as high as Pineda but he’s got another level to go to IMO

  176. Betsy March 29th, 2012 at 8:16 am

    George King knows nothing. His opinion that Garcia has a spot locked up practically is as uninformed as Mark Feinsand saying that Phil does – more so.

    Managers should not get to make decisions that have import for the future of their team; the only thing they care about is the here and now, so naturally Joe is going to favor the surer thing. Cashman is going to make the decisions about the rotation.

  177. MTU March 29th, 2012 at 8:17 am

    Blake-

    G. Love expressed his concern on that front yesterday and I agree with him.

    Nova’s FB command is off right now.

    I hope he shines in his next outing making another trip to the Minors out of the question.

    He has has such a great attitude that bouncing him around always seems like an option with him and a path of least resistance.

    In my mind he has earned the right to struggle a bit in Majors if that’s what it takes to get him on track.

  178. Betsy March 29th, 2012 at 8:18 am

    I don’t see how Nova has been treated badly at all, MTU. I know he’s very popular, but in the same way that people are saying he deserves the benefit of the doubt this year for what he did last, then Phil deserved the same in 2011. As a result, Nova was the only option to be sent down – who else was going to go? That’ s not being mistreated, that’s life in the big leagues. I’m not sure why Nova should be treated any differently than anyone else.

  179. Betsy March 29th, 2012 at 8:19 am

    Cashman also raved about Nova last year, publicly. I’m sorry, I don’t see how the Yankees have treated him like the black sheep of the family/the redheaded stepchild, etc…

  180. MTU March 29th, 2012 at 8:28 am

    Betsy-

    IMO Nova has been tasked with many things and each time he just puts his head down, puts on a smile and gets it done.

    I find his determination and humility admirable.

    And I like the fact that he has had a bit of an underdog quality to him.

    And I am not comparing him to Hughes. Phil has had challenges of his own to overcome.

    Some his struggles were of his own making though IMO.

    I’m pulling for both.

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  182. MTU March 29th, 2012 at 8:34 am

    YT-

    Thanks.

    WoW !

    He “bearly” escaped.

    Some here probably wish it were me and that I didn’t.

    I have always wanted to see a Puma in the wild but not that way.

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  183. Betsy March 29th, 2012 at 8:41 am

    MTU, I’m not comparing them at all, just wondering how Nova has been treated so poorly. I personally would not send him down – well again, this is what the Yankees knew what was going to happen when they signed Andy.

  184. Yankee Trader March 29th, 2012 at 8:42 am

    If Nova shows more command his next outing then I think Garcia goes to the pen. Nova has the best GB rate amongst the starters, has a variety of pitches.

    It looks like the #5 and possibly the #4 will open on the road in Baltimore and pitch their next start at home against the Twins, enough time to induce confidence in preparation for the “bigger” boys.

  185. MTU March 29th, 2012 at 8:49 am

    Betsy-

    I’m not quite sure I can put my finger on it exactly.

    Perhaps it just that underdog thing.

    Nova started off as a rule 5 guy who was not even protected.

    Thru sheer good fortune he was returned to us.

    Since that time he has worked really hard and thru his hard work and talent he has continued to
    rise in both ability and value.

    Thru it all he has continued to remain humble.

    Every challenge that was thrown in his way he has taken on with enthusiasm and determination.

    Not one thing was handed to Ivan Nova. He’s had to earn it all.

    I don’t know if that helps but it’s about the best I can do.

  186. Yankee Trader March 29th, 2012 at 8:53 am

    I was trying to build a case , where the 2nd and 3rd time thru the order, based on last years stats, Nova was much better, and Garcia became more hittable.
    I can’t!

    Garcia’s BAA and OPS are 1st, Nova’s 2nd:

    hitters 16-30 BAA .295 OPS .805/ .271;.718
    31-45 BAA .267 OPS .791/ .262; .725
    46-60 BAA .252 OPS .654/ .242; .699

  187. Yankee Trader March 29th, 2012 at 8:57 am

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  188. ron March 29th, 2012 at 8:59 am

    I am just not sure garcia get’s a spot because if he does to start the year,one of pineda/nova goes down.
    Then when pettitte returns,the yankees are going to send the other one of the two down,unless garcia then goes to the pen,in wich case why not do that to start the year?

    I think it will depend on how nova,and pineda look in their last starts.
    If pineda’s velo is still not there,or nova is struggling with some things,i see the yankees sending one down to iron it out.

    Buys them more time.

  189. MTU March 29th, 2012 at 8:59 am

    YT-

    I like and respect Garcia.

    But Freddy is the “now” and IMO is expendable at some point.

    Nova and the others are the future of the NYY’s (hopefully).

    Circumstances were different when Garcia signed. Things have changed.

    Unfortunately, that sometimes is the way things go.

    No one intended for him to be screwed in any way.

  190. randy l. March 29th, 2012 at 9:00 am

    I’m not quite sure I can put my finger on it exactly.

    Perhaps it just that underdog thing.

    Nova started off as a rule 5 guy who was not even protected.

    “Thru sheer good fortune he was returned to us.

    Since that time he has worked really hard and thru his hard work and talent he has continued to
    rise in both ability and value.

    Thru it all he has continued to remain humble.

    Every challenge that was thrown in his way he has taken on with enthusiasm and determination.

    Not one thing was handed to Ivan Nova. He’s had to earn it all.”

    kind of “true yankee” material isn’t he.

    a throwback to a long legacy of yankee over achievers who rise to the occasion.

  191. randy l. March 29th, 2012 at 9:06 am

    it cracks me up how some on the blog are coming around to the idea that pineda could use some triple a .

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