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Wednesday notes: Kuroda happy with spring adjustments

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Notes on Mar 28, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

It was the first four innings that Hiroki Kuroda held the Braves scoreless. It was in his last three innings that he gave up a couple of runs. In spring training, though, results are only part of the story, and Kuroda was much happier with the way he finished today’s next-to-last spring start.

“In the beginning I didn’t feel right, but I was able to make adjustments,” he said. “… Every game that I start I have to make some kind of adjustment, and I was able to do that the last few games that I pitched in spring training. I think I’m ready for that. I just hope I don’t get hurt.”

As long as he remains injury free, the Yankees seem happy with their offseason free agent signing. Pitching outside of the National League West for the first time, Kuroda has been exactly what the Yankees were expecting. He doesn’t overwhelm hitters, but he mixes pitches and throws strikes. Today he struck out six and walked none.

“I was pleased with what I saw, really pleased,” Joe Girardi said. “He’s the guy that I thought we were getting.”

The Yankees have planned all year to slot Kuroda into the No. 2 spot in the rotation, and that’s exactly where Kuroda will open the season, as the game-two starter against Tampa Bay. That leaves him lined up to start next month’s home opener.

“I try not to think that far ahead,” Kuroda said. “I’m just focused on this next start that I have to do.”

• The Yankees got good news on Curtis Granderson’s right elbow. An MRI showed no problems, and Girardi didn’t rule out the idea of Granderson playing as early as tomorrow.

• More good news on Nick Swisher who managed to get 10 at-bats at the minor league complex today. He’ll go back to the complex tomorrow, and Girardi said he might play the outfield depending on how he feels. Girardi doesn’t expect him to take so many at-bats this time.

• In case you missed it, the Yankees announced today that they’ve claimed catcher Craig Tatum off waivers from the Diamondbacks. The signing seems to make sense given the Austin Romine setback, but a Yankees source also confirmed that Tatum is out of options, meaning he can’t be sent to the minor leagues. Hard to imagine him getting the backup catcher job ahead of Francisco Cervelli. Kind of a head scratcher.

• Speaking of minor moves, Sweeny Murti reported this afternoon that the Yankees have signed Jack Cust to a minor league deal. That would seem to be clear insurance just in case Raul Ibanez can’t shake off his rocky spring. Cust is also a left-handed hitting designated hitter.

• Speaking of Ibanez, he went 1-for-3 today and very nearly had his second spring home run. He was robbed by Jason Heyward’s leaping catch over the wall in right field.

• Speaking of struggles, Cory Wade gave up another run this afternoon. The big hit was a double by Eric Hinske, and Girardi said he felt that was the only truly bad pitch Wade threw (he left it up). Wade has a 7.27 ERA this spring and hasn’t looked sharp, but Girardi made it clear that he’s planning to have Wade in his Opening Day bullpen.

• One more Wade note: Just a few days ago he threw a three-inning simulated game. The Yankees want him to be a little bit stretched out so that he could give multiple innings if necessary. The loser of the rotation competition will likely be the regular long reliever. “You’d like to have two guys down there that could really give you some multiple innings,” Girardi said.

• The Yankees settle for a 5-5 tie after George Kontos gave up a two-run homer in the ninth inning. Kontos stayed in to pitch a scoreless 10th. … Eric Chavez went 3-for-4 including a double and an RBI single. He brought his average up to .235. … Eduardo Nunez’s strong spring continued with two more hits for a .393 average. … Justin Maxwell took an 0-for-2.

Associated Press photo

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327 Responses to “Wednesday notes: Kuroda happy with spring adjustments”

  1. Bret The Hitman March 28th, 2012 at 6:39 pm

    Plenty of teams would kill to have Eduardo Nunez as their starting shortstop. I bet teams call on him but at this point, I would want a significant return.

  2. Yankee Trader March 28th, 2012 at 6:40 pm

    Luis-

    If Girardi is looking for a pure LOOGY, then I think they will go north with the veteran Rapada, who gives the relief staff a different look as a sidearmer.

    Apparently Cabral doesn’t automatically go back to the Red Sox,as a second timer rule 5 pick, but goes thru waivers and would be snapped up before the Red Sox would get their chance to pick.

  3. Bret The Hitman March 28th, 2012 at 6:41 pm

    But I’m still curious as to how much (or little) teams have been offering for Eduardo Nunez.

  4. Carlos March 28th, 2012 at 6:45 pm

    Kuroda has been so under the radar all spring. Let’s hope it’s that way during the season.

  5. Yankee Trader March 28th, 2012 at 6:46 pm

    I think that Pineda will be in the starting rotation as the #5, and will pitch first in Baltimore and then have his first home start against the Twins, and will be 2-0! :)

    I wouldn’t be totally surprised if Nova starts off initially as the long man in the BP, only because he has the best GB rate and early in the season, he’ll be needed more frequently. However if I were asked to place a wager-it’ll be Garcia in the pen.then

  6. Bret The Hitman March 28th, 2012 at 6:47 pm

    I remember the Mariners wanted Nunez with Montero for Lee or Nova with Montero for Lee. The Royals wanted Nunez + Nova + Montero + Betances/Banuelos for Greinke. The Braves wanted Nunez just this past offseason.

    Nunez seems to be a recurring theme in Cashman’s talks with other GM’s.

  7. luis March 28th, 2012 at 6:50 pm

    • Speaking of struggles, Cory Wade gave up another run this afternoon. The big hit was a double by Eric Hinske, and Girardi said he felt that was the only truly bad pitch Wade threw (he left it up). Wade has a 7.27 ERA this spring and hasn’t looked sharp, but Girardi made it clear that he’s planning to have Wade in his Opening Day bullpen.

    ====================================

    I’ve been watching Wade in ST. I think he has been tinkering with his mechanics. When he uses a somewhat three quarter arm slot he gets rocked, but when he goes back to the over the top arm slot he does well. I don’t know if it is voluntary or not, if it isn’t it doesn’t bode well for him.

  8. GreenBeret7 March 28th, 2012 at 6:51 pm

    Nunez has more value to NY as a part timer than he does as a part of a trade. He’s not bringing back a major talent on his own.

  9. Yankee Trader March 28th, 2012 at 6:51 pm

    Bret-

    I don’t see where the Yankees can afford to trade Nunez, their super utility player.

  10. Bret The Hitman March 28th, 2012 at 6:52 pm

    I agree but I wonder how close teams are getting to offering a major talent for him or at least of some GM out there is contemplating it.

  11. Yankee Trader March 28th, 2012 at 6:57 pm

    Bret-

    In fact, I don’t believe Garcia would bring back more than a fringe player, unless included in a package, and I wouldn’t trade him , until they see how things work out.

    The Orioles will just wait for Maxwell to be placed on waivers, as they pick 2nd after the Twins, i believe. Maybe the Astros then will trade for him. I have no idea if they could offer the Yankees anything of value if the Yankees expand the deal.

  12. Villa Nova-Ya March 28th, 2012 at 6:58 pm

    The Yankees have finally developed a utility player of their own who is pretty darn good. I don’t see them trading Nunez.

  13. Joe from Long Island March 28th, 2012 at 6:59 pm

    I think that it’s important to consider not just the status of the rotation in 2012, but in 2013 and beyond.

    I think the Yankees will be loathe to trade Phil or Ivan, and would ask a high return for either. I think they would rather place either in the bullpen for a relatively short term, than give up a capable major league starter.

  14. luis March 28th, 2012 at 6:59 pm

    Trader,

    I read somewhere that Logan would be used more like a middle innings reliever rather than as a LOOGY. If that’s the case they may go with Rapada, but i like the upside that Cabral brings more. In any case is a tough decision.

    Bret,

    I think Nunez is too valuable to be traded. Arod and Jeter as time passes by will need more rest , and eventually be relegated to DH. Nunez gives you a bat that not many BUI can bring, so the drop of production when either of the aforementioned players need to rest wont be as steep. Eventually he will hold the fort until Cito hopefully is ready.

  15. ron March 28th, 2012 at 6:59 pm

    The thing with nunez is,you don’t wan’t to trade him,then he takes off,and blloms late,and ends up being a starting infielder.

    That would hurt.

    But if he’s going to be the .698 ops infielder with shaky defense,he would be no big loss.

    He hasn’t played enough to know what we have yet.
    That is why he is so hard to formulate an oppinion on.

  16. ron March 28th, 2012 at 7:00 pm

    blooms,i meant.

  17. GreenBeret7 March 28th, 2012 at 7:01 pm

    What a total jerk.

    keithlaw ? @keithlaw

    When there are some worth seeing “@bigvich83: @keithlaw When will you be in NJ/NY area looking at hs pitchers?”

  18. blake March 28th, 2012 at 7:01 pm

    it seems that every time we speak about a guy being done (Ibanez, Jones), he comes back from the dead.”

    Why do you think I keep talking about how slow Raul ‘s bat is

  19. blake March 28th, 2012 at 7:04 pm

    “When there are some worth seeing “@bigvich83: @keithlaw When will you be in NJ/NY area looking at hs pitchers?””

    What he means….is whenever there is a nice cooking expo in the area.

    Kuroda! I really like watching him pitch so far…
    Strike throwing machine.

  20. Yankee Trader March 28th, 2012 at 7:07 pm

    Bret-

    You have more imagination than I do when it comes to trades. See if you can concoct a trade with the Angels based on what I’ve read about their needs/wants.

    1. Looking for a 5th starter. Rumor looking at Oswalt
    2. Earlier wanted a Closer
    3. Looking to trade Abreu, before they have to release him
    4. Wanting a 3rd baseman and Mark Trumbo, unless he learns the position quickly, might have no place to play.

    Can you come up with a Yankees-Angels trade that improves both teams, and gives the Yankees a young bat?

  21. GreenBeret7 March 28th, 2012 at 7:08 pm

    Swisher talks to Brett Marshall after hitting against him.

    http://www.trentonian.com/arti.....tem-s-best

  22. lounge lizard March 28th, 2012 at 7:08 pm

    The reverse jinz is indeed powerful. Despite that, I will go ahead and say that:

    Nova is the number three starter. If Yanks wanted to keep the possibility of switching him out, they would have split him with Freddy tomorrow instead of pushing Freddy to Friday. Now it is very difficult to get anyone except Nova on proper rest for game three of the regular season.

    Hughes probably slots as the number 5, since he would have to be shorted a day to bring him up to 4.

    Either Pineda or Freddy could be the number 4. Probably Pineda unless he really fouls up. He’s been having a hard time reaching his innings so wouldn’t be bad idea to have Freddy on track as his caddy from the pen.

  23. blake March 28th, 2012 at 7:09 pm

    Magic seems pumped about the Dodgers……can’t see how this isn’t good for the game.

  24. luis March 28th, 2012 at 7:10 pm

    Joe from Long Island March 28th, 2012 at 6:59 pm

    I think that it’s important to consider not just the status of the rotation in 2012, but in 2013 and beyond.

    I think the Yankees will be loathe to trade Phil or Ivan, and would ask a high return for either. I think they would rather place either in the bullpen for a relatively short term, than give up a capable major league starter.

    =====================================

    Joe,

    Wouldn’t that mess up either Nova or Hughes progression?…With all the talent down in triple A, that will be ready hopefully by 2013. The pitcher that ends up in the pen will be in a mayor disadvantage in a competition against the B’s. Plus it would kill their trade value. Not so much in Nova’s case, but it would in Hughes case. Because he would have one year left of control before hitting free agency and would be his second year in a row with around 100 innings pitched. That’s why i think the best course of action is to keep Garcia in the pen until Pettitte’s is ready, if he is indeed a capable MLB SP still.

  25. Yankee Trader March 28th, 2012 at 7:10 pm

    Blake-

    Maybe if Ibanez would get rid of the “chaw” he’d be a little quicker with the bat! :)
    I don’t see him getting many ab’s if he stays with the team. Maybe we’ll see Chavez, if he’s healthy, get more DH time when he’s not at 3rd. He had 3 hits today.

  26. luis March 28th, 2012 at 7:13 pm

    Blake,

    I hear ya! ;)

  27. kd March 28th, 2012 at 7:14 pm

    i think a healthy chavez reduces a lot of the dh concerns

    if alex and jeter can stay off of the dl and play 120 games in the field, and nunez and chavez can take care of the rest, this team will be just fine

  28. luis March 28th, 2012 at 7:15 pm

    kd March 28th, 2012 at 7:14 pm

    i think a healthy chavez reduces a lot of the dh concerns

    if alex and jeter can stay off of the dl and play 120 games in the field, and nunez and chavez can take care of the rest, this team will be just fine

    =============================

    Arod is done!…..I’m doing my end of the bargain ;)

  29. Yankee Trader March 28th, 2012 at 7:17 pm

    Stan Kasten has come a long way. Rumor was, as a young lawyer, he approached Ted Turner, and offered to work for him for nothing. He soon became, at age 27, the GM of the Other team Turner owned-the Hawks.

  30. GreenBeret7 March 28th, 2012 at 7:18 pm

    It seems that Troy Renck, writer for the Denver Post this morning when he declared that Jack Cust would sign with an NL team.

    Ooooops

  31. MG March 28th, 2012 at 7:19 pm

    Isn’t Kuroda the one of the long time LoHud cognescenti claimed could be out of the rotation if he didn’t shape up by the end of spring training because ‘the AL East is a different animal than the NL’?

    Sure, the mound in the AL East is an extra 3 feet from home plate and every batter is a future Hall of Famer.

    Kuroda will win 15+ for this team, he knows how to pitch and commands the strike zone consistently, that’s all it takes to win in any league-see Andy Pettitte…

  32. Yankee Trader March 28th, 2012 at 7:23 pm

    I think Kuroda will be fine-nasty splitter, life on his fastball, good splits away from home, doesn’t walk many, gives you 200 innings.

    However, the Braves announcers today mentioned, if this is true, that Kuroda’s GB rate dipped 8% last year and homeruns allowed went from 16 to 25.

  33. Joe from Long Island March 28th, 2012 at 7:23 pm

    Luis I understand what you are saying. However, I think that is a relatively short term problem.

    A bigger problem is going into 2013 and potentially beyond searching for starters. Remember, kuroda, Freddy, and Andy are all on one year contracts. 2008, when they tried going into the season with kid starters (Phil and Ian Kennedy), it didn’t work out too well.

    I think/guess that they’re looking at 2013 rotation of CC, Pineda, Nova, Phil, and Phelps/warren/mitchell.
    Maybe Banuelos/Betances, depending on how they do this year.

    Remember, they want to get to that 189m mark by 2014, and buying starters on the FA market won’t help achieve that goal.

  34. BD (Boston Dave) March 28th, 2012 at 7:25 pm

    “1. Looking for a 5th starter. Rumor looking at Oswalt”

    ———

    Angels immediately responded to that rumor and said it was false.

    But, I can’t imagine they’d turn down an offer to upgrade their #5 if it came along.

  35. blake March 28th, 2012 at 7:25 pm

    However, the Braves announcers today mentioned, if this is true, that Kuroda’s GB rate dipped 8% last year and homeruns allowed went from 16 to 25.”

    Could have been an anomaly ….his stuff looks good to me and he doesn’t beat himself…..and with the Yanks offense and pen that’s going to win a lot of games.

  36. Yankee Trader March 28th, 2012 at 7:30 pm

    Blake-

    Looks like Kuroda, after pitching the 2nd game of the season in Tampa, will pitch the Yankees home opener against the Angels.

  37. BD (Boston Dave) March 28th, 2012 at 7:30 pm

    “However, the Braves announcers today mentioned, if this is true, that Kuroda’s GB rate dipped 8% last year and homeruns allowed went from 16 to 25.”

    ————–

    Kuroda only gave up 3 walks in September… the month he also gave up 7 HR.

    I think it was a bit of an anomaly until we see otherwise.

  38. luis March 28th, 2012 at 7:32 pm

    Thanks Joe. You have a very good point. So basically you have to keep both Hughes and Nova to fill the rotation in 2013 plus a rookie. Makes a lot of sense. I just don’t want to see either of them in the BP, i rather send him down and build his innings, so there is no chance of another Verducci effect.

  39. Yankee Trader March 28th, 2012 at 7:37 pm

    I like Kuroda, and watching him against the mostly starting team the Braves will play this season, he offers a lot.

    I’d rather see Garcia in the pen, as he has a splitter also, but his secondary pitches, make me nervous, especially when getting into the second rotation thru the order.

  40. luis March 28th, 2012 at 7:43 pm

    Joe,

    I read your post again. Do you think by this time next year that the B’s may not be ready for prime time?. I infer this because you place Phelps, Warren and Mitchell first in the pecking order.

  41. BD (Boston Dave) March 28th, 2012 at 7:45 pm

    “The Astros and Orioles have some interest in Yankees outfielder Justin Maxwell, but haven’t discussed a possible deal with GM Brian Cashman” according to George King of the NY Post.

  42. luis March 28th, 2012 at 7:47 pm

    Trader,

    I think Garcia would be a fine 5th SP. I don’t think he can repeat last season’s numbers. The issue for me here is that he has no long term future with the club. So i rather burn him in the pen than either Hughes or Nova, whom in my opinion should be mainstays in the rotation, at least until 2014.

  43. BD (Boston Dave) March 28th, 2012 at 7:52 pm

    “The issue for me here is that he has no long term future with the club. So i rather burn him in the pen”

    ———–

    I’d rather get his trade value as high as possible and then trade him.

    If that means someone else misses 3-4 starts, so be it. Garcia is going to keep the Yanks in games and the dropoff, if any, between he and Pineda or Nova is small.

    There will be quite a few teams that could really use a dependable starter like Freddy within the first 4-6 weeks of the season and will pony up a prospect.

  44. Yankee Trader March 28th, 2012 at 7:54 pm

    BD-

    The Orioles can gamble that they can just claim Maxwell when he’s put on waivers.

    The Astros would probably need to work a trade, as I don’t think he’ll get thru the AL, to the Astros who’d pick first among NL teams.

  45. Bret The Hitman March 28th, 2012 at 7:56 pm

    Freddy Garcia is an established starter so putting him in the pen to begin the year won’t alter that perception or assessment of his value. GM’s would see him as victim of a numbers game rather than a failed starter. So I don’t think the Yankees need to make Freddy Garcia a starter to boost his trade value. It is what it is.

  46. luis March 28th, 2012 at 7:57 pm

    I’d rather get his trade value as high as possible and then trade him.

    ==============================

    No argument here. I don’t think Garcia brings much in a trade, regardless. Having said that, as long as you don’t put in the pen either of the young hurlers i am fine with it.

  47. Yankee Trader March 28th, 2012 at 7:57 pm

    I think the Yankees need to keep Garcia until they see how the rotation shakes out when Pettitte returns. It’s unlikely they’d get more than a fringe prospect now, especially if the other team is picking up the entire contract. That would weaken the staff now.

  48. BD (Boston Dave) March 28th, 2012 at 7:57 pm

    YT,

    true.

    would be nice if they could get something for him – even if it’s just a low level middle relief prospect.

  49. m March 28th, 2012 at 7:59 pm

    I agree, rival GMs know it’s a numbers game. They know what Freddy did last season and can see how he looks this spring.

    They’re holding out but teams will need pitching.

  50. Bret The Hitman March 28th, 2012 at 8:01 pm

    And I would prefer if when Garcia pitches out of the pen he’s the caddy for Hughes instead of Pineda or Nova. I distrust Hughes the most and feel like he’s the most prone to get bombed by a tough lineup. Phil has to face the Red Sox in Boston and the Tigers at the beginning of the year. It could get ugly quick and I don’t trust him. That’s where Freddy would come in handy, maybe pitch 4-5 innings every 5 days during Hughes’ starts.

  51. Yankee Trader March 28th, 2012 at 8:02 pm

    Got to go. My predictions as of today: :)

    Garcia to the pen, unless Nova has a very bad outing against the minor league team.

    Rapada goes north with the Yankees.

    The Yankees trade Maxwell to a NL team, and get a fringe prospect in return, UNLESS, the trade is expanded to include some Minor league excess.

    Have a good night all.

  52. luis March 28th, 2012 at 8:07 pm

    BD, Trader and M,

    So you think that Garcia by himself could bring a decent prospect down the line by holding to him as long as you can, and other teams pitching get exposed?

    Do you agree that Nova or Pineda should stay as starters, regardless if it is with the big club or in triple A?

    I don’t include Hughes since i think he is in the rotation, and after he goes north with the team, the Yankees lose the last option. So Hughes has to approve the move.

  53. luis March 28th, 2012 at 8:07 pm

    GN Trader, take care.

  54. luis March 28th, 2012 at 8:09 pm

    Yankee Trader March 28th, 2012 at 8:02 pm

    Got to go. My predictions as of today: :)

    Garcia to the pen, unless Nova has a very bad outing against the minor league team. Agreed

    Rapada goes north with the Yankees. Agreed, even though i would like to keep Cabral.

    The Yankees trade Maxwell to a NL team, and get a fringe prospect in return, UNLESS, the trade is expanded to include some Minor league excess. Probably

    Have a good night all.

  55. BD (Boston Dave) March 28th, 2012 at 8:12 pm

    luis,

    I definitely think Garcia’s trade value goes up if he pitches a handful of games for the Yanks and gets the job done.

    I won’t be disappointed if they put him in the pen. I also wouldn’t be disappointed if they stashed Pineda or Nova in AAA in order to gain an extra year of control.

    I don’t think the Yankees do any better or worse, record-wise, if Garcia makes 4-5 starts or if Nova or Pineda make those starts to begin the season.

    If I’m right about that (I could be wrong of course) then building Garcia’s trade value, gaining an extra year of control, etc is a nice bonus.

  56. m March 28th, 2012 at 8:13 pm

    Garcia will be a salary dump/roster move. He won’t bring anything back except a prospect that’s going nowhere or one that’s far away from the majors.

    I don’t think either if pineda or nova goes to the pen.

    I think hughes and nova are in. Either Garcia to pen or Pineda to aaa. If Pineda hits 95-96 in his last start(s) he’s in the rotation. If he sits low 90′s and barely reaches 94, then he goes to AAA.

  57. luis March 28th, 2012 at 8:15 pm

    Wow Bret!,

    You sure have low expectations on Hughes. I think he is going to have a career year. His FB is back, his curveball has recovered some bite and his CU looks good. Plus he had last year, nothing better than a dose of failure to help someone to focus and to mature. We learn from our defeats a lot, but very little from our victories.

  58. Bret The Hitman March 28th, 2012 at 8:17 pm

    I don’t know if people remember how Mike Mussina got bombed before he learned how to pitch with diminished velocity. He needed pinpoint control later in his career or he got bombed.

    Hughes is like that right now, where one call can blow up in his face.

    And Moose had a better arsenal than Hughes.

  59. Bret The Hitman March 28th, 2012 at 8:18 pm

    So I like Garcia in the pen backing up Hughes every fifth day.

  60. BD (Boston Dave) March 28th, 2012 at 8:19 pm

    “Garcia will be a salary dump/roster move. He won’t bring anything back except a prospect that’s going nowhere or one that’s far away from the majors. ”

    ———

    maybe if teams know the Yanks need to dump him.

    A pitcher making $4M on a short 1yr deal who pitched to a 122 ERA+ in the AL East last season has some value.

    There will be some injuries. More teams are contenders now because of the extra wildcard spot.

  61. Bret The Hitman March 28th, 2012 at 8:19 pm

    If Hughes brings that 91-92 MPH fastball, loopy curve and show-me change to the Sox and Tigers, he better be able to locate.

  62. Bret The Hitman March 28th, 2012 at 8:20 pm

    How could teams not know the Yankees would like to trade Garcia?

  63. J. Alfred Prufrock March 28th, 2012 at 8:20 pm

    Michelle B. of Yankee Stadium West March 28th, 2012 at 6:16 pm
    After going to more Athletics games in the last 5 years than i’d like to admit to, I cant understand the Cust move. He is just plain garbage. He’s only a DH, he’s worse than giambi at first and is like bobby abreu’s and vladimir guerrero’s lovechild in the outfield. He k’s A LOT and cant hit a curve ball to save his life.
    ////

    LMAO

  64. BD (Boston Dave) March 28th, 2012 at 8:24 pm

    “How could teams not know the Yankees would like to trade Garcia?”

    ————

    said if they “need” to trade him, not “like” to

    if they banish him to the pen, it’s pretty obvious.

    if they actually start him, then it’s not.

    bottom line – his trade value goes up if he’s starting and pitching well. if he is in the pen, it goes down.

  65. luis March 28th, 2012 at 8:25 pm

    Thanks BD and M,

    Both very thoughtful and good posts. I am somewhat surprised that M thinks that Pineda might end up in triple A. But in hindsight, it makes sense. If he is not ready, you don’t want to expose him like they did with Hughes.

    BD point of the extra year of control is very valid, the only downside i see to that is that whomever ends up in triple A might feel screwed.

    What i find more important is that we all agree in that none of those pitchers should go to the pen.

  66. BD (Boston Dave) March 28th, 2012 at 8:26 pm

    like I said, I don’t think hte Yankees record would be any different if Garcia starts 4-5 games at the beginning of the season than if Pineda or Nova start those games.

    but there is a benefit to giving Garcia those starts. and depending on how good you think Pineda or Nova will be, then it could be a massive benefit.

    not much benefit to putting Garcia in the pen and/or a salary dump trade.

    I’m not saying that will happen… just that it’s not that bad of an idea.

    But we’ve been having this discussion for at least a week. We’ll have to wait and see.

  67. Betsy March 28th, 2012 at 8:27 pm

    Phil is not anywhere near where Mussina was a few years ago. He obviously needs to be able to maintain consistent velocity and improve his other pitches, but he’s only 25 and it looks like he’s made a good start. I think that I am going to take a very positive approach and not worry about Phil getting tattooed.

  68. Pat M. March 28th, 2012 at 8:30 pm

    Bret The Hitman…..Aren’t you impressed by Hughes and his performance so far this spring ??/ I understand it’s March, but his command and his presence on the hill has been unlike anything we’ve ever seen from him in prior camps……

  69. jacksquat March 28th, 2012 at 8:30 pm

    Garcia has value, not a lot, but decent. But I don’t think his value gets any higher with a few good starts in April. He pitched well in the AL East last year and has had a good spring. On the other hand, his value could drop if he pitches badly. Plus teams looking for a starter would probably prefer to have that starter before the regular season starts. So if the Yankees plan to trade him they should be looking pretty hard right now.

    And the idea of sending Pineda to the minors because of velocity is ridiculous. He’s throwing as hard as Hughes (and Hughes came to camp in shape), and his secondary pitches are better. Sending him to the minors to extend their control is a different subject, I don’t think the Yankees do that.

  70. rm March 28th, 2012 at 8:31 pm

    It looks like the Yankees have a lot of possibilities for the last spot in the bullpen,
    From Cot’s Baseball Contracts:
    Cesar Cabral lhp
    1 year/$0.48M (2012)
    ? 1 year/$0.48M (2012)
    ? selected by Kansas City from Boston in Rule 5 draft 12/8/11
    ? acquired by NY Yankees in trade from Kansas City 12/8/11
    ? as player selected in Rule 5 draft for second consecutive year, Cabral may become a free agent if he clears waivers and need not be returned to Boston, his original club
    ? signed by NY Yankees 3/7/12
    Clay Rapada lhp
    1 year (2012)
    ? 1 year (2012)
    ? DFA by Baltimore 2/6/12, released 2/15/12
    ? signed by NY Yankees as a free agent 2/20/12 (minor-league contract)
    Cory Wade rhp
    1 year/$508,925 (2012)
    ? 1 year/$508,925 (2012)
    ? re-signed by NY Yankees
    They can send Rapada or Wade down to the minors whenever they want. This is the easiest option to buy some time but they can also be a little creative with Cabral. They can probably offer him enough money to accept a minor league contract and get ready for a mid season call up. They may need to get creative in order to get him through waivers or worst case they may need to give the Red Sox some sort of compensation to guarantee they can get him back.

  71. BD (Boston Dave) March 28th, 2012 at 8:31 pm

    “BD point of the extra year of control is very valid, the only downside i see to that is that whomever ends up in triple A might feel screwed.”

    ———

    I keep hearing that and it’s valid… part of the consideration.

    I don’t think Pineda or Nova, though, are at the point where they can be ‘feeling screwed’ or ‘slapped in the face’ if they have to make a handful of starts in the minors if it’s in the teams best interest.

    Four guys for three spots, someone isn’t going to be happy and I think they already realize that. If a guy is gonna cry about it and let it affect their game, probably not gonna be a good pitcher in NY anyway.

    Oh, and Garcia has outpitched them both in ST too.

  72. luis March 28th, 2012 at 8:31 pm

    Hi JAP,

    LOL, it was a funny post. But is only a minor league contract, so no harm no foul. Besides mine and Blake’s efforts to call Ibanez done is making the reverse jinx. As soon as we said that he couldn’t hit a lick, he has started to hit. ;)

  73. Bret The Hitman March 28th, 2012 at 8:31 pm

    Teams would not pay more for Freddy Garcia if he starts the year in the rotation as opposed to the pen because they know that the Yankees would not want to keep Pineda or Nova in AAA very long. How much time do GM’s think those guys need in AAA? Probably none.

  74. BD (Boston Dave) March 28th, 2012 at 8:34 pm

    “Plus teams looking for a starter would probably prefer to have that starter before the regular season starts.”

    ———–

    couldn’t disagree more.

    if that were the case, trade deadline pitchers would come cheap. On the contrary, they cost an arm and a leg.

    and that was before they added a wildcard spot.

    one extra wildcard this season is goign to add a ton of extra contenders. Teams are going to feel like even the slightest improvement could be the difference.

    Let’s put it this way. If the Yankees needed a starter and targeted Garcia, they’d be asked for at least one of their AAA pitching prospects (maybe 3rd-6th best arm in the system)

    A short term commitment and only $4M? that’s very desirable.

  75. m March 28th, 2012 at 8:35 pm

    Phil is not throwing 91 mph meatballs. His curve is much tighter. He’s getting strikeouts and groundouts with his changeup.

    But we can play what-if all day.

  76. Bret The Hitman March 28th, 2012 at 8:35 pm

    Mussina used to get bombed and was unbearable to watch one year. He had to be perfect every time out and if he missed one borderline call he would blow up.

    But then he learned how to pitch with diminished velocity.

    Right now Hughes is like the Mussina who had to be perfect out there with so-so stuff.

  77. BD (Boston Dave) March 28th, 2012 at 8:36 pm

    Bret,

    still, his trade value can’t possibly go up in the pen. It could go up in the rotation.

    there is literally no benefit to his trade value to stash him as a long man in the bullpen and frankly, he may not even be effective there so it could hurt the team.

    Given two choices – one which helps the team and one which doesn’t help it and could hurt it? Give me ‘A’

  78. luis March 28th, 2012 at 8:37 pm

    Pat M. March 28th, 2012 at 8:30 pm

    Very good post. The only thing i don’t agree with is that i think that in 2007 he looked as good as ever, especially that fateful night in Arlington.

  79. BD (Boston Dave) March 28th, 2012 at 8:37 pm

    I am not too worried about Phil either.

    This pitching staff looks to be very solid regardless of who they put out there.

  80. Bret The Hitman March 28th, 2012 at 8:40 pm

    BD,

    Putting Nova or Pineda in AAA is a temporary move and it wreaks of a bluff.

    I don’t think it’s necessary to showcase an established veteran starter in the rotation. His track record should speak for itself and he has looked good this spring.

    If the Yankees put Garcia in the pen, it might indicate that they DO value him rather than NEED to trade him. If he’s in the pen then the Yankees are deciding they need him as insurance for Pettitte and that has value for the Yankees. If a team wants to trade for Freddy Garcia, they would have to convince the Yankees to sacrifice the security of having Freddy as insurance.

  81. BD (Boston Dave) March 28th, 2012 at 8:41 pm

    “And the idea of sending Pineda to the minors because of velocity is ridiculous. ”

    ———–

    huh?

    may have missed it – didn’t see anyone here suggest that.

    I did say it would be nice to get an extra year of control over Pineda though. And it wouldn’t hurt to give him time to work on his changeup in situations where a bad changeup doesn’t mean giving up runs that actually count.

    Though, if Pineda is expected to regain arm strength and add to his velocity, then it’s certainly not ridiculous to want him to be able to do that in a low pressure situation. It’s debatable – not ridiculous.

  82. Bret The Hitman March 28th, 2012 at 8:42 pm

    And even if you make Freddy Garcia a starter, I doubt a team would be willing to offer more than Garcia’s value as an insurance policy for Pettitte.

  83. comet March 28th, 2012 at 8:43 pm

    Anyone know where Damaso Marte is this year? TIA.

    Can’t believe no-one has picked up Damon this year.

  84. BD (Boston Dave) March 28th, 2012 at 8:43 pm

    Bret,

    I’m not talking about bluffs and what not. It’s not that much of a chess game. It’s more about supply and demand.

    There are more teams that could use a Freddy Garcia than are teams that have them. As injuries arise, that supply goes down.

    I stand by my point. His value could go up if he pitches in the rotation. It really can’t go up if he doesn’t.

    I don’t see the point in a salary dump when Garcia is on a cheap deal for 1 year and is better than quite a few starting pitchers out there.

  85. BD (Boston Dave) March 28th, 2012 at 8:45 pm

    “Can’t believe no-one has picked up Damon this year.”

    ———–

    yeah, have to wonder what his demands are. I’m sure he could take a bench role on a cheap deal but you have to think he isn’t interested in that.

    Too many available DHs and not enough spots. He’ll have to wait for an injury ?

  86. Bret The Hitman March 28th, 2012 at 8:45 pm

    BD,

    I agree his value could go “up” in the rotation but I highly doubt it would ever go higher than his value as an insurance policy for Pettitte out of the pen.

    If you find a more secure spot for him on the roster, teams will have to meet that price.

    If you put him in the rotation, they know his spot is unsafe because Nova and Pineda are ready and don’t need any time in AAA.

  87. luis March 28th, 2012 at 8:46 pm

    still, his trade value can’t possibly go up in the pen. It could go up in the rotation.

    ========================

    QFT You put Hughes in the pen and his trade value is almost zero.

  88. J. Alfred Prufrock March 28th, 2012 at 8:48 pm

    luis March 28th, 2012 at 8:31 pm
    Hi JAP,

    LOL, it was a funny post. But is only a minor league contract, so no harm no foul. Besides mine and Blake’s efforts to call Ibanez done is making the reverse jinx. As soon as we said that he couldn’t hit a lick, he has started to hit.

    ///

    Luis, primo! We always use “reverse jinx” around here, although we’re forbidden to speak of them (or they won’t work for us). Yea, I just thought the post, in and of itself, was hilarious. “DH’ discussions tend to send me into a state of torpor, anyway, if you get my meaning.

    I just want the season to start and have the games to react to. I’m weary of the preamble. Let the games begin!

  89. BD (Boston Dave) March 28th, 2012 at 8:48 pm

    Bret,

    I just don’t think the “bluff” potential makes much of a difference.

    I shouldnt’ have said anything about that – my apologies.

    It’s much more about supply and demand. Garcia has real value – not just a salary dump, IMO. He is better than most teams #4 or #5 starters, doens’t make much money, only 1 year…

    If the Yanks simply wanted to dump his salary, he’d be long long gone already. I think they agree with me in that regard.

    We’ll see I guess.

  90. blake March 28th, 2012 at 8:48 pm

    “Right now Hughes is like the Mussina who had to be perfect out there with so-so stuff.”

    Not really….Hughes’s fastball when right is a plus pitch even at 91-94 mph because his arm action is deceptive and because the ball has late life……Hughes is like most all pitchers in that they need to locate well to have success……

  91. Bret The Hitman March 28th, 2012 at 8:48 pm

    And if the Yankees are hyperfocused on someone’s trade value, that would be Hughes. Hughes was going to make this rotation regardless of how Freddy Garcia pitched. Adding Pettitte didn’t change that.

  92. BD (Boston Dave) March 28th, 2012 at 8:49 pm

    We can agree to disagree on how valuable a guy who only makes ~$4M and threw a 122 ERA+ in meaningful games for the Yanks in the AL East last season is.

    :)

  93. luis March 28th, 2012 at 8:52 pm

    For the record:

    M is concerned with Pineda’s velocity, because he might be hurt. It makes sense to send him down if he can be exposed like Hughes was.

  94. m March 28th, 2012 at 8:52 pm

    BD,

    I said it here in this thread. If he’s got a dead-arm type of thing and Freddy looks good, why not get that extra year. Diminished velocity us the perfect excuse. But the Yankees have never done things the easy way.

    Bret,

    Museums had to pitch perfectly because he sat 88-90 and refused to pitch inside. He lost the starting job because of that, and was a different pitcher when he finally did start pitching inside.

    I think you’re the only one who thinks Phil is Bad Mussina.

  95. BD (Boston Dave) March 28th, 2012 at 8:54 pm

    m,

    oh, i didnt see it. i dont disagree with you either – certainly don’t think it’s a ‘ridiculous’ suggestion.

    I really think we’re debating for the sake of debating, for the most part.

    The Yanks have a tough decision but no matter which route they take, I truly believe their rotation will be very good.

  96. m March 28th, 2012 at 8:55 pm

    Mussina, not Museums!

  97. Bret The Hitman March 28th, 2012 at 8:56 pm

    Phil is bad Mussina because he has to be perfect or he gets clobbered. The guy has to pitch to contact.

  98. luis March 28th, 2012 at 8:56 pm

    Luis, primo! We always use “reverse jinx” around here, although we’re forbidden to speak of them (or they won’t work for us). Yea, I just thought the post, in and of itself, was hilarious. “DH’ discussions tend to send me into a state of torpor, anyway, if you get my meaning.

    I just want the season to start and have the games to react to. I’m weary of the preamble. Let the games begin!

    =================================================

    JAP,

    Did you know that…..Luis primo! is a very, very Venezuelan way to say hi?…. It’s like what’s up bro? … i am impressed :)

  99. J. Alfred Prufrock March 28th, 2012 at 8:59 pm

    Luis, LMAO. That was just serendipity – but that’s cool that I stumbled on Venezuelan slang by accident :D.

  100. Nick in SF March 28th, 2012 at 8:59 pm

    I like bad museums better when they sell tasty chocolate bars for charity, but few do. :neutral:

  101. luis March 28th, 2012 at 9:00 pm

    I think you’re the only one who thinks Phil is Bad Mussina.

    Yup, pretty much.

    ==============================

    BD,

    Your last post was spot on….You are on fire.

  102. m March 28th, 2012 at 9:03 pm

    You have convictions, Bret. I give you that. You are chasing your tail on a deserted island on thus particular topic.

    But you argue respectfully and fairly. Gotta respect that.

  103. randy l. March 28th, 2012 at 9:03 pm

    I did say it would be nice to get an extra year of control over Pineda though. And it wouldn’t hurt to give him time to work on his changeup in situations where a bad changeup doesn’t mean giving up runs that actually count”

    bd-

    you’re nothing but a trouble maker for suggesting such a thing.

    do you realize how many pitchers have learned a change up in the majors?

    you’re from boston. maybe you have something against cashman.

    maybe you’re not even a yankee fan.

    you probably loved montero.

    you might even be a liar. about what i’m not sure. but you might be one.

    … but because you suggest the minors might be a good place for pineda to start the year there must be something really wrong with you. get professional help :)

  104. luis March 28th, 2012 at 9:04 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock March 28th, 2012 at 8:59 pm

    Luis, LMAO. That was just serendipity – but that’s cool that I stumbled on Venezuelan slang by accident

    ==================================

    Accident or not i loved it!….About the season, just four more days!! :D

  105. Jerkface March 28th, 2012 at 9:07 pm

    Mussina was fine until he lost 2 mph off his fastball. Hughes is sitting at his normal velocity right now. He isn’t anything like Mussina. If he never regained his velocity loss from last year you’d have a point, but he did get it back.

  106. Nick in SF March 28th, 2012 at 9:08 pm

    If Reduced Velocity Phil is the same as Bad Mussina, I expect a Phil Bar to follow.

    And then another trip to the Fat Farm to follow that. :neutral:

  107. Jerkface March 28th, 2012 at 9:08 pm

    do you realize how many pitchers have learned a change up in the majors?

    Do you? Pineda already has and uses a change up. That the pitch will go from 3-5% thrown to a higher amount has happened many times before for pitchers.

  108. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 28th, 2012 at 9:09 pm

    Geeze Louise, I just tuned into the Knicks game.

    93-70 in the last quarter? Playing the Magic????

    Mama flippin’ mia.

  109. jacksquat March 28th, 2012 at 9:10 pm

    BD (Boston Dave) March 28th, 2012 at 8:34 pm
    “Plus teams looking for a starter would probably prefer to have that starter before the regular season starts.”

    ———–

    couldn’t disagree more.

    if that were the case, trade deadline pitchers would come cheap. On the contrary, they cost an arm and a leg.

    and that was before they added a wildcard spot.

    one extra wildcard this season is goign to add a ton of extra contenders. Teams are going to feel like even the slightest improvement could be the difference.

    Let’s put it this way. If the Yankees needed a starter and targeted Garcia, they’d be asked for at least one of their AAA pitching prospects (maybe 3rd-6th best arm in the system)

    A short term commitment and only $4M? that’s very desirable.

    Trade deadline? Your suggestion was to hold him until the trade deadline? Then yeah, his value goes up, if he’s pitching well, but I don’t know why the Yankees would want to trade him then.

    But I thought we were talking about a month or so. One month into the season is not anything like the trade deadline.

    And yes several people have commented on Pineda’s velocity and in the same breath suggested he go to minors, not just to get another year of control.

  110. J. Alfred Prufrock March 28th, 2012 at 9:10 pm

    luis, must be my DMT molecules linking my unconscious to the Land of the Rising Son. Who knows? Maybe I speak Venezuelan argot in my sleep, but forget it all when I’m awake ;).

  111. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 28th, 2012 at 9:13 pm

    These Knicks are the real McCoy. And without Stat, even!

  112. Jerkface March 28th, 2012 at 9:13 pm

    Trade deadline? Your suggestion was to hold him until the trade deadline? Then yeah, his value goes up, if he’s pitching well, but I don’t know why the Yankees would want to trade him then.

    But I thought we were talking about a month or so. One month into the season is not anything like the trade deadline.

    The principle is the same. And prices before the trade deadline can be like the trade deadline. I’ll try and rustle up the words on it, but for a player that was traded well in advance the price was higher because they got more starts out of him. While its true prices can peak at the deadline due to a closing window and demand, it does not mean that prices will not be higher in the season as emergencies occur vs before the season when you’re dealing strictly with teams that went into ST with sub-par staff.

  113. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 28th, 2012 at 9:15 pm

    Dat’s all.

    :)

    See ya.

  114. jacksquat March 28th, 2012 at 9:18 pm

    There have already been injuries and there are teams that could use another pitcher to complete their rotation.

    JF, I think you are just arguing from the standpoint of wanting to send either Nova or Pineda to the minors to gain another year of control, and thus want to keep Garcia for a while as the 5th starter to facilitate that.

    I’m not really interested in that discussion. I doubt the Yankees do the control thing, so I think it’s pretty irrrelevant.

  115. LGY March 28th, 2012 at 9:20 pm

    I like Hughes but I do wonder what it is about him that makes this board so incredibly optimistic about him.

  116. yankeefeminista March 28th, 2012 at 9:22 pm

    :arrow:

  117. Pat M. March 28th, 2012 at 9:23 pm

    Nick in SF……Finalized by selections with less than 30 minutes before the deadline last night……I played 40 units on 23 teams, then I placed 150 units on the Angels ( over ) Texas ( under ) Phillies ( under ) Washington ( over ) , 100 units on the Giants & D-Backs ( over ) and 280 units on the Yanks over…….I liked this pool much better when all we had to do is pick 10 teams …..This season was much tougher for some reason……

  118. luis March 28th, 2012 at 9:24 pm

    m March 28th, 2012 at 9:03 pm

    You have convictions, Bret. I give you that. You are chasing your tail on a deserted island on thus particular topic.

    But you argue respectfully and fairly. Gotta respect that.

    =========================

    This also very true….

  119. luis March 28th, 2012 at 9:27 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock March 28th, 2012 at 9:10 pm

    luis, must be my DMT molecules linking my unconscious to the Land of the Rising Son. Who knows? Maybe I speak Venezuelan argot in my sleep, but forget it all when I’m awake ;) .

    ============================

    Sorry i didn’t answer before, had to go and have dinner. Maybe it is, who knows. But you wrote it like a Venezuelan would do! ;)

  120. m March 28th, 2012 at 9:28 pm

    A healthy Hughes is a good Hughes. Hughes is healthy.

    Are you not optimistic that he will be healthy or good?

    Some of us are just optimistic in general. Some of us wait until there’s something to worry about before we start worrying.

  121. ron March 28th, 2012 at 9:28 pm

    From fangraphs,about pineda.Very interesting.

    So, time to panic?

    No, not really. As the 2011 season wore on, Pineda decided that it wasn’t in his best interests to come out firing at full velocity from the first pitch. He wanted to be more efficient early in games, so rather than coming out and throwing 97 and striking everyone out, he decided to ease off the fastball in the first inning or two and try to get some quick outs on the ground.

    For instance, here are the first 10 pitches from his Pitch F/x log during his August 21st start against Tampa Bay from last year.

    Fastball: 89.2
    Fastball: 90.2
    Fastball: 90.3
    Fastball: 91.0
    Change-Up: 85.5
    Fastball: 93.9
    Fastball: 91.8
    Slider: 83.8
    Slider: 83.6
    Fastball: 93.7

    He didn’t crack 94, and the average velocity was just over 91. The results were still fine, as he retired the side in order in the first inning, including getting two strikeouts, but the velocity wasn’t what he had shown earlier in the year. Later in the game, however, he was sitting 94-95 with regularity, and he finished the day with six innings pitched, allowing just six hits, no walks, and five strikeouts. It took him 94 pitches to throw those six innings.

    Essentially, this development just isn’t new. Pineda spent a good part of the second half of 2011 experimenting with pitching at reduced velocities early in games, and then he cranked up the volume when he needed to as the game wore on. Now, I think an argument could be made that it’s a little disconcerting that Pineda feels it’s necessary to start games with diminished velocity, suggesting that perhaps he doesn’t feel he can throw in the mid-90s for 100 pitches per start over a full season. However, his performances from 2011 suggest that he’s choosing to throw at lower velocities early in starts, and you’d certainly rather have velocity loss be due to something that the pitcher can change when he wants to, rather than simply being unable to throw as hard as he used to.

    Bottom line – this just isn’t really something to be overly concerned with. He only threw two innings in an exhibition game, and did so after being strongly encouraged to work on his change-up during Spring Training. For Pineda, there was no incentive to come out throwing 95, and he’s already shown that he prefers to work at lower velocities early in games.

    If it’s mid-April and he’s trying to keep the Yankees in a regular season game and can’t get his fastball over 92, then it’s cause for alarm. Now, though, it’s just not really something that anyone should spend much time worrying about.

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