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Postgame notes: Martin impressed with Nova’s outing

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Notes on Mar 29, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Nothing especially impressive about Ivan Nova’s pitching line this afternoon. Facing Triple-A hitters, Nova allowed three runs through 7.1 innings. He struck out five and walked one. All three runs came near the end of the outing, long after the media — and manager Joe Girardi — had left for the big league stadium.

So what to make of such an outing?

“Today was a good day for him,” Russell Martin said. “There was one homer hit, but it was a fly ball that was kind of wind-aided. It ended up barely scraping over the fence, but besides that, his pitches were there. That’s what I wanted to see from him. He hadn’t put it all together (this spring). He’d have three out of four pitches, but he hadn’t had four yet in a game. Today was one of those games where he had everything.”

Nova’s had kind of a strange spring, and it looks like today’s game was part of the trend. There have been stretches — several innings at a time — when he’s been outstanding, but it seems each game includes an inning or two when he’s been knocked around. On the whole, he’s been better than his 6.86 ERA suggests, and Martin’s words suggest today’s start was better than three runs against minor leaguers would suggest.

“I think you have to look at everything (this spring),” Girardi said. “But you also have to look at his body of work last year too. You can get caught up on judging people in spring training, and sometimes that judgment is not always true to what you see in the regular season, so I think you have to look at what he did last season as well.”

A focus on last season certainly works in Nova’s favor.

“Before the game today, I told him I wanted to see his focus,” Martin said. “Just sharpen up the focus a little bit. … He’s been progressing. He’s been getting more and more consistent as we go along. I think he’s going to have a great year; that’s my personal opinion. He went above expectations last year with what he did, so he’s got maybe a little bit more pressure on him to try to do that again. If he keeps the same attitude, that’s what I recognized from him last year the most – his intensity on the mound. He’s a guy that wants the ball and never backs down. He wants to stay out there that extra inning. That’s what I want to see from Nova.”

• Change of plans for D.J. Mitchell. After he pitched tonight, Mitchell went to the bullpen to get his pitch count up to 75. He will no longer pitch again on Saturday. Girardi said the decision was made during the game when the Yankees decided they’d rather let Mitchell get stretched out than test him on short rest. Girardi said it changes nothing about Mitchell’s chances of making the big league roster. “Not a bit,” Girardi said. “Because if (Mitchell, Phelps or Warren) were to go with us, it would be more of a long guy than back-to-back.”

• Curtis Granderson came through tonight’s game “great,” Girardi said. Nick Swisher also came through today’s five at-bats at the minor league complex with no problem. Depending on how he feels tomorrow Swisher might DH tomorrow’s big league game, play right field in tomorrow’s big league game or take another turn at the minor league complex.

• Eduardo Nunez came off the field a little awkward, but Girardi said he checked with Nunez and Nunez said he was fine. Nunez didn’t seem bothered when he was walking around the clubhouse.

• Raul Ibanez has four hits in his past four games, and he would have had five hits — and three home runs — if not for Jason Heyward robbing him yesterday. “I’ve been feeling better the last four, five days and trying to build momentum,” Ibanez said.

• Girardi said the only real difference for Ibanez is that he’s “hitting the ball,” and Ibanez said it’s strictly a matter of timing. He’s gotten it back through some intense sessions with Kevin Long. “The only thing I know how to do is just keep working until you find it,” Ibanez said.

• David Phelps allowed seven hits through five innings in his start tonight. He walked none and struck out four, including three huge strikeouts to end the fifth inning. With runners at second and third, Phelps got Nick Markakis with a slider, Adam Jones with a curveball and Matt Wieters looking at a fastball. “To be able to get through those guys he got was pretty good,” Girardi said.

• Mariano Rivera extended his scoreless spring training innings streak to 28 innings, a streak that goes back to 2008. Sources say he’ll make the team.

• Granderson singled in his return to the lineup. … Mark Teixeira’s double and Ibanez’s home run were the Yankees only extra-base hits. … Alex Rodriguez, Brett Gardner, Bill Hall and Nunez also had hits in the 4-3 loss. Nunez also stole a bag. … Rodriguez and Derek Jeter each made errors. Bad throw by Jeter, bad hop past Rodriguez. … Boone Logan faced and retired two batters.

Associated Press photo

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244 Responses to “Postgame notes: Martin impressed with Nova’s outing”

  1. Rich in NJ March 29th, 2012 at 11:12 pm

    Has Martin ever dissed a pitcher?

  2. luis March 29th, 2012 at 11:15 pm

    This Mitchell news basically settles the issue IMO. Either Garcia is traded and Mitchell becomes the longman or Garcia stays for a while and becomes the long man.

  3. Yank 97 March 29th, 2012 at 11:17 pm

    Let’s discuss something important that hasn’t been discussed yet -

    Who takes over for Burnett as the pie man?

  4. Pat M. March 29th, 2012 at 11:17 pm

    Rich in NJ…….Never to a reporter

  5. Rich in NJ March 29th, 2012 at 11:18 pm

    For real, Pat. :)

  6. J. Alfred Prufrock March 29th, 2012 at 11:23 pm

    Rich in NJ March 29th, 2012 at 11:12 pm
    Has Martin ever dissed a pitcher?
    ///

    He talks to much.

  7. J. Alfred Prufrock March 29th, 2012 at 11:23 pm

    *too much

  8. Yank 97 March 29th, 2012 at 11:23 pm

    “Has Martin ever dissed a pitcher?”

    Nope. Banuelos reminds him of Kershaw. Nova is a stud. Burnett has nasty stuff. Hughes is a stud. CC is a stud. Garcia reminds him of Maddux. Joba has the best stuff he’s ever caught. Warren reminds him of Chad Billingsly. Kuroda is the most diverse pitcher he has ever caught. Robertson is unhittable. Noesi has the best stuff he has ever seen. Corey Wade has the best change-up he has ever caught. Boone Logan reminds him of Kershaw. Sergio Mitre has an unhittable sinking fastball when he locates it. Betances has better stuff than Kershaw. Phelps reminds him of Derek Lowe. Rafael Soriano is unhittable when he locates.

  9. Betsy March 29th, 2012 at 11:24 pm

    It’s a nice problem to have, too much pitching, but it’s still an issue. Someone who isn’t deserving of a demotion is going to be demoted (or traded) when Andy returns. In a sense, Cashman is not trusting his young pitchers because if he did trust them, he never would have approached Andy in the first place.

  10. luis March 29th, 2012 at 11:25 pm

    Yankeefem,

    About your last post directed to me. Yes i know that they don’t have the upside of the power arms. But i do think they are very good, and they would bring more value if they are allowed to pitch in the bigs.

  11. Bret The Hitman March 29th, 2012 at 11:25 pm

    Mitchell being stretched out as a starter means there is an empty spot in the bullpen so Garcia will be the long man. By now the Yankees should have a good idea that offers do not reflect his value as an insurance policy for Pettitte.

    Pineda is going to lock down that final spot.

  12. yankeefeminista March 29th, 2012 at 11:26 pm

    Yank 97 :lol:

  13. J. Alfred Prufrock March 29th, 2012 at 11:26 pm

    Yanks97, LMAO!

  14. Pat M. March 29th, 2012 at 11:26 pm

    No love for Russell Martin on this board……..Pitchers love him though…

  15. Bret The Hitman March 29th, 2012 at 11:29 pm

    While I appreciate the emergence of Mitchell, Warren and Phelps as major league-ready, are they really that much more valuable to GM’s than the last crop of back end guys like Ohlendorff, Karstens, McCutchen and McAllister

  16. yankeefeminista March 29th, 2012 at 11:29 pm

    luis March 29th, 2012 at 11:25 pm
    Yankeefem,

    About your last post directed to me. Yes i know that they don’t have the upside of the power arms. But i do think they are very good, and they would bring more value if they are allowed to pitch in the bigs.
    ____
    As do I. I was giving the Yanks’ take on it; IPK is the poster boy for the kinds of arms they value less.

  17. luis March 29th, 2012 at 11:29 pm

    Yanks97,

    :D But in fairness, what catcher would speak bad things of a pitcher to a reporter.

  18. Rich in NJ March 29th, 2012 at 11:30 pm

    OTOH, Pat, we sometimes heard they didn’t like Posada, and no one would take Martin over Posada if they were constructing a team.

  19. Pat M. March 29th, 2012 at 11:30 pm

    GB……You nailed the pitching situation at the end of the previous thread…….Bets, I think Cashman called Pettite to see what his plans were before they started to make their winter moves……..As I mentioned, GB laid it out real well …..

  20. luis March 29th, 2012 at 11:31 pm

    Bret The Hitman March 29th, 2012 at 11:29 pm

    While I appreciate the emergence of Mitchell, Warren and Phelps as major league-ready, are they really that much more valuable to GM’s than the last crop of back end guys like Ohlendorff, Karstens, McCutchen and McAllister

    ======================================

    Excuse me….But none of those pitchers ever looked as good as these three have looked this spring.

  21. J. Alfred Prufrock March 29th, 2012 at 11:32 pm

    Hey Rich,

    Not only is Martin going to be re-signed, he’s going to be groomed to succeed Girardi some day. They’ve already decided his affability with reporters will mean he can handle the daily post-games.

  22. stuckey March 29th, 2012 at 11:32 pm

    Actually yes….Garcia’s signing, Kuroda’s signing, Andy’s signing and Pineda’s trade. They don’t trust their kids. They are not willing to go to war with what they had.

    For the record: I agreed with Kuroda’s signing and i like to have Andy back in the fold….But this shows a clear trend.

    __________________________

    For one Luis, when they signed Garcia, there is NO way of knowing what Cashman knew of his chances for acquiring Kuroda and Pineda were. Let’s not even mention Pettitte. At the time, it was Sabathia, Nova, Hughes (who he hadn’t yet see in ST yet), Burnett and kids, with a rotation spot and a bullpen spot to fill.

    You think he should have let Garcia go (perhaps to the Sox)?

    Just this morning, some folks were questioning Cashman letting Colon go.

    And post-Garcia, you endorse two of the 3 moves you identify as part of the “trend” you refer to in a critical way.

    So I’m confused.

    Are you suggesting he not do moves like that at all anymore (including the ones you like), or are you saying he just shouldn’t do the specific moves you don’t happen to like anymore?

  23. Bo knows March 29th, 2012 at 11:32 pm

    No love for Russell Martin on this board……..Pitchers love him though…

    ————————

    I don’t understand no love for Martin when it comes to catching. True professional. Positive reinforcement. Pitching has to be the loneliest job in the world and if your catcher dumps on you, hanging up seems a viable uption.

    Now uncontrolled swinging out of his socks ala Swisher is whole nother thing. The guy must be bipolar. How can a smart man be that dom?

  24. luis March 29th, 2012 at 11:33 pm

    Pat M. March 29th, 2012 at 11:26 pm

    No love for Russell Martin on this board……..Pitchers love him though…

    =========================

    What pitcher wouldn’t? every time he goes to the mound he says: “You are the best” :D

  25. J. Alfred Prufrock March 29th, 2012 at 11:33 pm

    Excuse me….But none of those pitchers ever looked as good as these three have looked this spring.
    ///

    Right you are, sir. Not on the same level.

  26. yankeefeminista March 29th, 2012 at 11:35 pm

    Pat M., opposing pitchers too. ;)

    (Here’s hoping he has a better year at the plate)

  27. Pat M. March 29th, 2012 at 11:35 pm

    Rich in NJ…..I don’t know what OTOH means….But I don’t see how Jorge comes into play here and especially the construction of a ballclub….I will say this, Martin was a very good catcher when he hit the bigs in LA…….He’s healthy and I suspect he’ll improve with the stick…..Posada is a HOF catcher but he didn’t become the everyday catcher until he was in his late 20′s….

  28. yankeefeminista March 29th, 2012 at 11:35 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock March 29th, 2012 at 11:33 pm
    Excuse me….But none of those pitchers ever looked as good as these three have looked this spring.
    ///

    Right you are, sir. Not on the same level.
    _____
    Yep.

  29. GreenBeret7 March 29th, 2012 at 11:35 pm

    What would be the purpose in blowing up a young pitcher in the press? So you would think more of the catcher? you want him to act like that All-Team good guy like Giambi? No thanks. I prefer that they keep any criticism of team mates where it belongs..out of the media.

  30. J. Alfred Prufrock March 29th, 2012 at 11:36 pm

    Rich in NJ March 29th, 2012 at 11:30 pm
    OTOH, Pat, we sometimes heard they didn’t like Posada, and no one would take Martin over Posada if they were constructing a team.
    ///

    Um, Joe would.

  31. m March 29th, 2012 at 11:36 pm

    ..Pitchers love him though…

    Pat M., this is really the only thing that matters.

    Bo,

    I think it’s because he replaced Posada. Because he’s not a bad teammate, and had has done nothing to deserve the derision he gets.

  32. GreenBeret7 March 29th, 2012 at 11:37 pm

    luis March 29th, 2012 at 11:05 pm
    Can this be applied to Brian Cashman in any way other than one trade you do not like?

    Actually yes….Garcia’s signing, Kuroda’s signing, Andy’s signing and Pineda’s trade. They don’t trust their kids. They are not willing to go to war with what they had.

    For the record: I agreed with Kuroda’s signing and i like to have Andy back in the fold….But this shows a clear trend.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    This tells me only one thing. At the time they made that trade, only Garcia was signed. Warren and Phelps were both hurt last year and missed time so they lost innings. Only Mitchell stayed healthy. Hughes was coming off of a 4 month injury and nobody was sure how he was going to do. Pettitte wasn’t even close to being signed. He was barely a hope. Remember last winter when most hopes were pinned on Lee after Pettitte retired? They got pretty lucky with Colon and Garcia. I wouldn’t pin a season on that 2 years in a row. This “embarrassment of pitching riches” came together in ST

  33. Pat M. March 29th, 2012 at 11:38 pm

    Time to call in a night and watch The Lakers and make some dough, besides I’m over my head when the blog becomes a cynical contest

  34. Nick in SF March 29th, 2012 at 11:39 pm

    Can’t leave that Quebec revenue sur la table.

  35. Rich in NJ March 29th, 2012 at 11:39 pm

    “Um, Joe would.”

    I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt and think that he wouldn’t JAP, if only because you can lose your job being that dumb. ;)

  36. luis March 29th, 2012 at 11:40 pm

    Stuckey,

    You are not reading my posts….I said that he has an Oscar Wilde complex because he doesn’t like what he has….I am not criticizing the moves per Se, i am just pointing out that he didn’t trust what he had, that explains all the signings and trades he has made recently. I even expressed that i liked Kuroda’s signing and liked Andy back in the fold of things. BUT IT CLEARLY shows a trend of not trusting what they had.

    About the timing, i’m not arguing that, just that he probably had all that he needed already. Maybe adding Kuroda and that’s it.

  37. Rich in NJ March 29th, 2012 at 11:41 pm

    Pat

    Only in that whether or not a pitcher loves a catcher isn’t all that important in relation to talent.

    As for Posada not being an everyday catcher earlier, that’s because Girardi was allowed to block him.

  38. J. Alfred Prufrock March 29th, 2012 at 11:41 pm

    This “embarrassment of pitching riches” came together in ST
    ///

    Not really. Unless some of us are just prophets. The pitching being loaded is no springtime revelation. They’re clueless about their own material.

  39. Bo knows March 29th, 2012 at 11:41 pm

    This tells me only one thing. At the time they made that trade, only Garcia was signed. Warren and Phelps were both hurt last year and missed time so they lost innings. Only Mitchell stayed healthy. Hughes was coming off of a 4 month injury and nobody was sure how he was going to do. Pettitte wasn’t even close to being signed. He was barely a hope. Remember last winter when most hopes were pinned on Lee after Pettitte retired? They got pretty lucky with Colon and Garcia. I wouldn’t pin a season on that 2 years in a row. This “embarrassment of pitching riches” came together in ST

    ———————–

    When you’re right, you’re right.

  40. GreenBeret7 March 29th, 2012 at 11:41 pm

    Is it possible that guys like Swisher, Teixeira, Posada and Martin were trying to make up for a lot of the missing production of Jeter and Rodriguez? Probably not the right approach, but, it wasn’t for lack of caring.

  41. m March 29th, 2012 at 11:41 pm

    GB7,

    People know exactly what goes on in the dugout and clubhouse. They say Martin has never given a word of constructive criticism or worked with the pitchers behind the scenes. He just gives false praise to the press.

  42. Betsy March 29th, 2012 at 11:41 pm

    Pat M, I love Martin……

  43. yankeefeminista March 29th, 2012 at 11:42 pm

    m, Martin had a horrific triple slash and his mechanics were painful to watch. He flat out killed us at the plate in the playoffs. If he wants to revert to his pre-2009 stats then I will happily tolerate him.

  44. stuckey March 29th, 2012 at 11:42 pm

    “I said that he has an Oscar Wilde complex because he doesn’t like what he has….I am not criticizing the moves per Se, i am just pointing out that he didn’t trust what he had, that explains all the signings and trades he has made recently.”

    __________________________

    Fair enough. So it was just an observation, not a criticism then?

    if so, my bad.

  45. J. Alfred Prufrock March 29th, 2012 at 11:43 pm

    As for Posada not being an everyday catcher earlier, that’s because Girardi was allowed to block him.
    ///

    Just as he has been allowed to get rid of Montero.

  46. yankeefeminista March 29th, 2012 at 11:44 pm

    “As for Posada not being an everyday catcher earlier, that’s because Girardi was allowed to block him.”

    Deja vu all over again? Should have moved him up in the lineup in the playoffs last year…

  47. Rich in NJ March 29th, 2012 at 11:44 pm

    “Is it possible that guys like Swisher, Teixeira, Posada and Martin were trying to make up for a lot of the missing production of Jeter and Rodriguez? Probably not the right approach, but, it wasn’t for lack of caring.”

    Posada produced, the others didn’t. So I don’t know why he is lumped in with them.

    The way to make up for production is to stay within yourself and not be what you’re not.

  48. GreenBeret7 March 29th, 2012 at 11:46 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock March 29th, 2012 at 11:41 pm
    This “embarrassment of pitching riches” came together in ST
    ///

    Not really. Unless some of us are just prophets. The pitching being loaded is no springtime revelation. They’re clueless about their own material.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    and if Kuroda signs with boston, Pettitte stays retired, and no small thing those three injury shortened year of Hughes, Phelps and Warren. If they aren’t healed, you’re putting the season on Burnett, Mitchell and who?

  49. J. Alfred Prufrock March 29th, 2012 at 11:46 pm

    Rich in NJ March 29th, 2012 at 11:39 pm
    “Um, Joe would.”

    I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt and think that he wouldn’t JAP, if only because you can lose your job being that dumb.
    ///

    Maybe if Montero were still here, and I hadn’t had a disquieting foreboding from jump, that Girardi would be the end of Montero as a Yankee…what a coincidence: no Montero.

  50. stuckey March 29th, 2012 at 11:47 pm

    m, Martin had a horrific triple slash and his mechanics were painful to watch. He flat out killed us at the plate in the playoffs. If he wants to revert to his pre-2009 stats then I will happily tolerate him.

    ___________________

    Martin had at worst an average triple slash for an everyday catcher and Arod and Tex were worse and Jeter just as bad in the postseason.

    Sabathia was no prize either.

  51. J. Alfred Prufrock March 29th, 2012 at 11:47 pm

    and if Kuroda signs with boston, Pettitte stays retired, and no small thing those three injury shortened year of Hughes, Phelps and Warren. If they aren’t healed, you’re putting the season on Burnett, Mitchell and who?
    ///

    if, if, if, and…if, if, if….

    lots if “ifs”.

  52. GreenBeret7 March 29th, 2012 at 11:47 pm

    Clueless to their own material? I doubt it . They know what they have. what they didn’t know was if they would be healthy enough to pitch.

  53. J. Alfred Prufrock March 29th, 2012 at 11:48 pm

    Pineda insurance against Sabathia sucking….. will wonders never cease.

  54. Bret The Hitman March 29th, 2012 at 11:48 pm

    I agree that this new crop of back-end starters looks better than the last one, so they should theoretically yield a greater return in a trade. But it took 3 of those guys from the last batch to get Xavier Nady. I would be happy if each of the three (Warren, Mitchell, Phelps) yields a solid late inning reliever.

  55. Bo knows March 29th, 2012 at 11:48 pm

    I think it’s because he replaced Posada. Because he’s not a bad teammate, and had has done nothing to deserve the derision he gets.
    ————————-
    Not deserved at the worst

    I snorkled at YF post – Somewhere between a snort and a chortle.

    ——————

    Pat M., opposing pitchers too.
    ———————

    Yep, opposing pitchers sure do love Martin. They check him off when they see him in the on deck circle.

  56. Rich in NJ March 29th, 2012 at 11:48 pm

    Tabata was the big piece for Nady.

  57. J. Alfred Prufrock March 29th, 2012 at 11:49 pm

    GreenBeret7 March 29th, 2012 at 11:47 pm
    Clueless to their own material? I doubt it . They know what they have. what they didn’t know was if they would be healthy enough to pitch.
    ///

    But do they know what they had???

  58. Bret The Hitman March 29th, 2012 at 11:49 pm

    I like Russell Martin as well…but I also like Austin Romine and Cervelli even.

  59. yankeefeminista March 29th, 2012 at 11:49 pm

    Did Chad have Joseph having a torn labrum in his shoulder? That was the gist on Pinstripes. Ugh.

  60. GreenBeret7 March 29th, 2012 at 11:50 pm

    Damned, you really are childish about this trade. Not child-like…childish.

  61. Rich in NJ March 29th, 2012 at 11:50 pm

    Maybe this was posted already (if so, my bad):

    “There’s no guarantee that the sixth starter goes to the bullpen,” Girardi said.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....um=twitter

  62. J. Alfred Prufrock March 29th, 2012 at 11:51 pm

    I snorkled at YF post – Somewhere between a snort and a chortle.
    ///

    Just don’t snivel. No sniveling allowed.

  63. GreenBeret7 March 29th, 2012 at 11:52 pm

    yankeeFem, I knew he was out with an injury, but, not the extent of it. I wonder if they’ll move adams up to AAA or slide Pirela into 2nd base.

  64. Bret The Hitman March 29th, 2012 at 11:53 pm

    Rich in NJ,

    I forgot all about Tabata. So those 3 arms were basically worthless if not for Tabata. I realize this new batch looks better but none of them project as top rotation can’t-miss guys and that limits their value. Even guys who possess stuff and upside like Edwin Jackson once did, they only bring back guys like Matt Joyce.

    The pitching depth is nice but I’m not expecting to acquire a key position player by trading any of the three ML-ready guys in AAA. I’d be happy trading them for late-inning relievers.

  65. stuckey March 29th, 2012 at 11:53 pm

    if, if, if, and…if, if, if….

    lots if “ifs”.

    ____________________________

    The premise of the bulk Montero criticism is predicated on “ifs”, “ifs” regarding the Yankee offense in 2013-2014, etc.

    Can anyone keep track of their own arguments anymore?

  66. J. Alfred Prufrock March 29th, 2012 at 11:55 pm

    GreenBeret7 March 29th, 2012 at 11:50 pm
    Damned, you really are childish about this trade. Not child-like…childish.
    ///

    The starting pitching would have had to be thoroughly abject for you to have any remotely convincing case that Montero had to be the bait to insure against your
    if,
    if,
    if,
    if,
    and
    if
    outcomes.

    Best of luck.

  67. luis March 29th, 2012 at 11:56 pm

    GreenBeret7 March 29th, 2012 at 11:37 pm

    luis March 29th, 2012 at 11:05 pm
    Can this be applied to Brian Cashman in any way other than one trade you do not like?

    Actually yes….Garcia’s signing, Kuroda’s signing, Andy’s signing and Pineda’s trade. They don’t trust their kids. They are not willing to go to war with what they had.

    For the record: I agreed with Kuroda’s signing and i like to have Andy back in the fold….But this shows a clear trend.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    This tells me only one thing. At the time they made that trade, only Garcia was signed. Warren and Phelps were both hurt last year and missed time so they lost innings. Only Mitchell stayed healthy. Hughes was coming off of a 4 month injury and nobody was sure how he was going to do. Pettitte wasn’t even close to being signed. He was barely a hope. Remember last winter when most hopes were pinned on Lee after Pettitte retired? They got pretty lucky with Colon and Garcia. I wouldn’t pin a season on that 2 years in a row. This “embarrassment of pitching riches” came together in ST

    ============================================

    GB7,

    This is the best post i’ve read from you, except maybe the one when i learned about Gehrig’s potential trade to the Bosox.

    The problem lies IMO in that” win now” mentality. I think 2008 had more to do with it than the various injuries the pitchers suffered last season. As i said, Kuroda’s was a good signing and i like Andy to be back in to the fold, but at the point when they signed him, he was unnecessary. Our problem was for one year at worst on the pitching side….our offense problem on the other hand….Well it might take a while, and the trade just made things worse.

    To clear things out, i was just pointing out that the FO view our pitching depth as a weakness instead as an strength. And they viewed our offense as a strength and not as a potential weakness. In short ,they under valued their prospects both on the offensive side as well as on their pitching side.

  68. yankeefeminista March 30th, 2012 at 12:00 am

    GB, I’m not sure, but I would think they’d keep Adams in AA to start considering he is still coming back from the injury.

  69. Bo knows March 30th, 2012 at 12:00 am

    Just don’t snivel. No sniveling allowed.

    ———————————

    Never, I say never, underestimate the power of whine and snivel’.

    I’ve been a victim of that, like forever.

    One of the ultimate truths, something like “You show me lazy, I’ll show you efficient”

  70. stuckey March 30th, 2012 at 12:00 am

    “our offense problem on the other hand….Well it might take a while, and the trade just made things worse.”

    That’s an “if”. You’re arguing with the wrong guy.

    “To clear things out, i was just pointing out that the FO view our pitching depth as a weakness instead as an strength”

    No, that’s your ASSUMPTION, but necessary to present as fact to make any sense of that line of criticism.

    No one with the Yankees ever said Pineda was acquired to sure up a weakness. That’s a spin that critics need to sell.

    But it’s groundless in fact and based entirely on assumption.

  71. GreenBeret7 March 30th, 2012 at 12:01 am

    Tampa’s in need of an outfielder. Upton and Fuld on the Dl. Cleveland and Atlanta looking for outfielders and Philly, Minnesota looking for infielders,

  72. J. Alfred Prufrock March 30th, 2012 at 12:02 am

    I am not as good as you are at saying one thing, and privately thinking the opposite ;).

  73. luis March 30th, 2012 at 12:02 am

    Fair enough. So it was just an observation, not a criticism then?

    In general yes.

  74. GreenBeret7 March 30th, 2012 at 12:04 am

    There was no driving desire to trade Montero, but, there was a driving need to strengthen the front of the rotation.

  75. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 12:04 am

    The Yankees should be looking for an OF as well.

  76. J. Alfred Prufrock March 30th, 2012 at 12:04 am

    Bo, it was a joke about Girardi’s laugh. Someone here (can’t remember who) called it a snivel. Sorry, probably too far inside a thing, if you weren’t here.

  77. J. Alfred Prufrock March 30th, 2012 at 12:05 am

    Rich,

    Yes, they should. There’s no room anywhere else to put a bat.

  78. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 12:05 am

    “There was no driving desire to trade Montero, but, there was a driving need to strengthen the front of the rotation.”

    This assumes that Montero was the only chip (he wasn’t, they could have traded Betances and/or Baneulos), and that Pineda will be a front of the rotation starter this year. Even Cashman has said that might not happen.

  79. J. Alfred Prufrock March 30th, 2012 at 12:06 am

    GreenBeret7 March 30th, 2012 at 12:04 am
    There was no driving desire to trade Montero, but, there was a driving need to strengthen the front of the rotation.
    ///

    Hmm. Not a good answer.

  80. luis March 30th, 2012 at 12:06 am

    Pat M,

    Good night, have a good one. I know is bit late but i was writing a post.

  81. stuckey March 30th, 2012 at 12:07 am

    Cool Luis.

    Wilde meant it as criticism, which was why I got confused.

    Thanks for the clarification.

  82. luis March 30th, 2012 at 12:08 am

    stuckey March 30th, 2012 at 12:00 am

    ok.

  83. GreenBeret7 March 30th, 2012 at 12:08 am

    yankeefeminista March 30th, 2012 at 12:00 am
    GB, I’m not sure, but I would think they’d keep Adams in AA to start considering he is still coming back from the injury.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    The only two infielders that I can think of on the middle infield would be Mustilier and putting Ibarra at 2nd and Pirela at short. Mustilier is more of a third baseman, though, built like Terry Pendleton.

  84. yankeefeminista March 30th, 2012 at 12:09 am

    It’ll be interesting to see if Rays give Guyer a shot as 4th OF.

  85. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 12:11 am

    It will also be interesting is the Yankees are ninja enough to find a way to keep Maxwell.

  86. Nick in SF March 30th, 2012 at 12:11 am

    More of a nerdy giggle.

  87. Tank March 30th, 2012 at 12:11 am

    “There was no driving desire to trade Montero, but, there was a driving need to strengthen the front of the rotation.”

    Why? They were the best team in the AL East with or without Pineda. They had tons of pitching depth in the minors.

    It was an unnecessary trade – they are going to need Montero and his elite bat speed far, far more than they’ll need Pineda. The guy might not even be in the rotation all year if everyone stays healthy and does well.

    Meanwhile, we get to see more of Swisher, Martin, Gardner, Tex, the ghost of A-Rod and Jeter against elite playoff pitching, fun….

  88. J. Alfred Prufrock March 30th, 2012 at 12:12 am

    This assumes that Montero was the only chip (he wasn’t, they could have traded Betances and/or Baneulos), and that Pineda will be a front of the rotation starter this year. Even Cashman has said that might not happen.
    ///

    Which would make it even more absurd. You give up on a guy like that, who’s ready to mash, and plead for patience for the guy you traded him for.

    Meanwhile, Banuelos or Betances – both? – could be ready next season; between the two of them, you have to forsee that one is going to be integrated. So, you basically decided 10 years of having a monster DH at worst, at best, a monster DH/backup catcher, was worth throwing over for a guy who is very good but not necessarily ready to be your “No. 2″ man right now (and mind you, my view is that even if he is, he’s not worth Montero)?

    So, you traded Montero for a guy who, next spring, may just be one of the boys, with the Bs, whom you already had. What vision.

  89. GreenBeret7 March 30th, 2012 at 12:13 am

    Seattle wanted a big bat. Cashman wanted a big arm. How hard is that to figure out?

    Whatever, I’m done with this endless BS. It’s done and over with and won’t get changed.

  90. yankeefeminista March 30th, 2012 at 12:14 am

    GB, Ibarra should be at AA. Pena at SS, Russo at 2B?

  91. EA March 30th, 2012 at 12:17 am

    Martin is gone after this year anyway

    They are not going to get under $189 if they have to give Martin $50 million. He’s an All-star caliber catcher who plays good D, calls a good game, and can hit 20 HRs at a position starved for 2-way players. He’ll get his money.

  92. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 12:17 am

    “Seattle wanted a big bat. Cashman wanted a big arm. How hard is that to figure out?”

    Well, duh, but that doesn’t mean you have to accede to their demands.

    “Whatever, I’m done with this endless BS. It’s done and over with and won’t get changed.”

    I didn’t bring it up. I just corrected misstatements.

  93. stuckey March 30th, 2012 at 12:18 am

    “It was an unnecessary trade”

    Of course it was.

    You said it yourself, they’re the best team in the AL.

    And this is where some of you guys just shut down, comprehending it wasn’t made out of necessity, as if any and all transaction needs to meet that threshold.

    “Meanwhile, we get to see more of Swisher, Martin, Gardner, Tex, the ghost of A-Rod and Jeter against elite playoff pitching, fun….”

    Yankees scored more runs than any team (per game) in the DS and as many runs as they ever traditionally scored in the ALDS, including 1998.

    Derisive commentary doesn’t change fact.

  94. GreenBeret7 March 30th, 2012 at 12:19 am

    YF, I forgot about the legendary Pena and Bernier.

  95. Bo knows March 30th, 2012 at 12:19 am

    I for one, am very impressed with Pineda. For a young kid to be this much a pitcher is pretty special. And then there is the high end ceiling on top of it. When his FB comes back, it’s turn out the lights. Sure there will be growing pains but the talent is definitely there.

    This is where the so called second tier are amazing. They’re changing speeds, pitching backwards etc. There were four CU in a row at one point. Now that’s pitching.

    I haven’t seen Hughes this year. If he has regained his stride then it’s all good. But I’ve seen him, too many times, pump FB after FB that was fouled off. It’ll take a while to establish cred. The onus is on the coaching. How do you allow a kid that talented get to the Majors with two pitches and expect him to succeed?

  96. stuckey March 30th, 2012 at 12:20 am

    Well, duh, but that doesn’t mean you have to accede to their demands.

    __________________

    Maybe Zduriencik felt he didn’t have any choice but to accede to Cashman’s demands?

  97. luis March 30th, 2012 at 12:21 am

    But it’s groundless in fact and based entirely on assumption.

    Stuckey,

    Do i have access to the meetings inside the Yankees organization?…..NO

    Therefore most of my comments are based on either assumptions and opinions about the facts that are publicly known. But those clearly point out to a presumptive Oscar Wilde complex, because their actions lead to think that they under value what they have and cherish everything from the outside

  98. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 12:23 am

    “I for one, am very impressed with Pineda. For a young kid to be this much a pitcher is pretty special. And then there is the high end ceiling on top of it. When his FB comes back, it’s turn out the lights”

    I have to view his 97 mph FB velo as an if, until and unless it returns and remains.

  99. luis March 30th, 2012 at 12:25 am

    GB,

    Did you read my post, i wanted to know what you think.

  100. J. Alfred Prufrock March 30th, 2012 at 12:26 am

    Bo knows March 30th, 2012 at 12:19 am
    I for one, am very impressed with Pineda. For a young kid to be this much a pitcher is pretty special. And then there is the high end ceiling on top of it. When his FB comes back, it’s turn out the lights. Sure there will be growing pains but the talent is definitely there.
    ///

    Yup. He’s a good young pitcher. Electric stuff. Not worth Jesus Montero, though.

  101. J. Alfred Prufrock March 30th, 2012 at 12:28 am

    I think his velo should return. Unless he’s having second-year syndrome. I didn’t see him pitch much last year, but he doesn’t strike me as hiding an injury, from what I’ve seen of him.

  102. Bo knows March 30th, 2012 at 12:29 am

    I have to view his 97 mph FB velo as an if, until and unless it returns and remains.

    ———————
    There have been drops in velo before – Verlander says hello. Normally they’re temporary. There could be many reasons – as in the jump in innings, Seattle shutting him down for the winter, etc.

    When Hughes lost his FB, he crashed and burned. Pineda is doing quite nicely.

  103. Against All Odds March 30th, 2012 at 12:30 am

    No one with the Yankees ever said Pineda was acquired to sure up a weakness. That’s a spin that critics need to sell.

    ——————————————-

    Actions speak louder than words they have been chasing pitching for yrs because they felt it was a weakness.

  104. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 12:30 am

    I’m not saying it won’t return. I just want to see 97 mph over a consistent period. Maybe there’s an on/off switch. If it’s a Verducci effect thing, then given their win every mandate, they may have miscalculated, or didn’t value Montero as highly as we do. Time will tell who was right.

  105. GreenBeret7 March 30th, 2012 at 12:31 am

    and here I thought all Pineda newas supoosed to do when he came to the Yankees was to learn a change-up. Now he needs to be a 23 year old version of Bob Gibson. He’s pitching pretty damned well with “just” a 92-94 MPH fastball, a hot slider and the makings of a damned good change-up. How about he gets a month or two to do his job before he gets called for not being up to your standards.

  106. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 12:31 am

    Bo

    Come on, he doesn’t have Verlander’s track record.

  107. J. Alfred Prufrock March 30th, 2012 at 12:32 am

    I didn’t bring it up. I just corrected misstatements.
    ////

    He quoted my “embarrassment of riches”. That’s how he got embroiled again, walking right into “this B.S.” he claims to want to be free of.

  108. luis March 30th, 2012 at 12:32 am

    Against All Odds March 30th, 2012 at 12:30 am

    No one with the Yankees ever said Pineda was acquired to sure up a weakness. That’s a spin that critics need to sell.

    ——————————————-

    Actions speak louder than words they have been chasing pitching for yrs because they felt it was a weakness.

    ====================================

    Exactly!!!!! Kudos

  109. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 12:32 am

    “How about he gets a month or two to do his job before he gets called for not being up to your standards.”

    How about reading what I said instead of distorting it, as you do with everyone’s posts that you can rebut.

  110. GreenBeret7 March 30th, 2012 at 12:32 am

    Pineda ***was supposed*** to do when

  111. stuckey March 30th, 2012 at 12:35 am

    Actions speak louder than words they have been chasing pitching for yrs because they felt it was a weakness.

    _____________________________

    Which successful ML franchise hasn’t been chasing pitching for years, just my own information?

  112. GreenBeret7 March 30th, 2012 at 12:37 am

    What was it you said that I misunderstood? What you said before on the 12:23 or the 12:30 post? Since I was responding to the 12:23 at 12:31 I couldn’t possibly see the 12:30, could I?

  113. luis March 30th, 2012 at 12:38 am

    Time will tell who was right.

    +++++++++++++++++++++

    Pineda may become the ace of the staff, and even then it won’t make it right. This was a misjudged trade, regardless of results. We had plenty of depth on the pitching side and ONE bat on the position side. Now we have arguably 9 (NINE) pitchers capable of being in the rotation, with the B’s and Warren as back ups. He just doesn’t like what he has.

  114. Against All Odds March 30th, 2012 at 12:39 am

    Now he needs to be a 23 year old version of Bob Gibson.

    ——————————-

    Well the Yankees brought him in to be a number 2 did they not? Every pitcher will struggle during the yr but I don’t think it’s unreasonable for him to pitch like a top of the rotation starter.

  115. stuckey March 30th, 2012 at 12:41 am

    Therefore most of my comments are based on either assumptions and opinions about the facts that are publicly known. But those clearly point out to a presumptive Oscar Wilde complex, because their actions lead to think that they under value what they have and cherish everything from the outside.

    _____________________________

    My groundless comment was based on the assumption Pineda was acquired to first to fill a need, rather than Cashman was presented with an option and choose to trade for who he may have regarded as the best available player.

    IF this was his motivation, his opinion was hardly a minority one around baseball.

    That said, I don’t understand why we’re back to Wilde when you didn’t mean it as a criticism.

    But that said since you continue to bring it up, before the last 3 months, who do you feel that was “inside” that Brian Cashman didn’t properly “cherish”.

    Whom during Brian Cashman’s long tenure was unwisely cast of in favor of someone else’s player?

    Illustrate a pattern before January 2012?

  116. GreenBeret7 March 30th, 2012 at 12:41 am

    Well, how nice of you. how about waiting for the season to start, then.

  117. Against All Odds March 30th, 2012 at 12:41 am

    How about he gets a month or two to do his job before he gets called for not being up to your standards.

    ———————-

    Lol he already got called out by the GM

  118. stuckey March 30th, 2012 at 12:42 am

    Well the Yankees brought him in to be a number 2 did they not?

    ____________________

    You tell me.

    When did the Yankees say that, who said it and what did they say?

  119. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 12:44 am

    What was it you said that I misunderstood? What you said before on the 12:23 or the 12:30 post? Since I was responding to the 12:23 at 12:31 I couldn’t possibly see the 12:30, could I?

    12:23

    “I have to view his 97 mph FB velo as an if, until and unless it returns and remains.”

    “How about he gets a month or two to do his job before he gets called for not being up to your standards.”

    Except my 12:30 post in no way precludes the possibility that I will see it or that it may take a little time.

    It was merely a reaction to Bo’s post: “When his FB comes back,”

    To me, Pineda’s velo, like everything else in life, is an if until it happens.

  120. Against All Odds March 30th, 2012 at 12:44 am

    stuckey March 30th, 2012 at 12:35 am

    Actions speak louder than words they have been chasing pitching for yrs because they felt it was a weakness.

    _____________________________

    Which successful ML franchise hasn’t been chasing pitching for years, just my own information?

    ——————————————

    Don’t turn this into every team chases pitching argument.

  121. Against All Odds March 30th, 2012 at 12:46 am

    And besides Cashman was the one that came out yrs ago and declared that the plan was to no longer chase pitching.

  122. GreenBeret7 March 30th, 2012 at 12:46 am

    He wasn’t brought in to be a #2 this year. Like Montero, he’s the future and not expected to carry the full load. That’s why Kuroda was brought in…to be the bridge between today and the future. Cashman also said that.

  123. luis March 30th, 2012 at 12:46 am

    Stuckey,

    My comment to you was a result of your statements that said that what i was explaining was basically assumptions and opinions. So i asked you do i have access to the FO? . Nope, therefore all my comments are educated assumptions and opinions.

  124. stuckey March 30th, 2012 at 12:47 am

    “This was a misjudged trade, regardless of results.”

    Really, Luis? The results don’t matter?

    “We had plenty of depth on the pitching side and ONE bat on the position side. ”

    Within the hour, any concerns regarding the fragility of the pitching or the sequence of event that led to the yankees depth was ridiculed as being based on a series of “ifs”.

    But ask someone why Montero is “so” important in a year or two…

    “Well, IF Teixeira doesn’t bounce back and iF Arod continues to decline and IF Granderson can’t repeat a career year…

    Doesn’t matter where your heart is on this trade, anybody should be able to recognize the poor debate tactics being thrown around.

  125. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 12:48 am

    “Pineda may become the ace of the staff, and even then it won’t make it right. This was a misjudged trade, regardless of results. We had plenty of depth on the pitching side and ONE bat on the position side. Now we have arguably 9 (NINE) pitchers capable of being in the rotation, with the B’s and Warren as back ups. He just doesn’t like what he has.”

    luis

    If Montero can never catch 60-80 games a season, or he doesn’t become close to a .900 OPS hitter, they will have been right about him in some sense.

    Where I think they will always be wrong is the process, in that they didn’t trade him for the established ace that Cashman always said he needed, or failing that, that they didn’t put him in a package for their biggest need: a big time young 3B/SS to help offset the almost inevitable decline of their two best players since 2004, who are approaching 40.

  126. stuckey March 30th, 2012 at 12:49 am

    Don’t turn this into every team chases pitching argument.

    ______________________

    Why not?

  127. Against All Odds March 30th, 2012 at 12:49 am

    stuckey March 30th, 2012 at 12:42 am

    Well the Yankees brought him in to be a number 2 did they not?

    ____________________

    You tell me.

    When did the Yankees say that, who said it and what did they say?

    ———————————-

    You know what you’re he wasn’t brought here to be a number 2 behind he was brought here to be a swing man/innings eater. They gave up their top hitting prospect for MP. I’m sure they’re expecting Pineda to pitch very well.

  128. J. Alfred Prufrock March 30th, 2012 at 12:49 am

    luis March 30th, 2012 at 12:38 am
    Time will tell who was right.

    +++++++++++++++++++++

    Pineda may become the ace of the staff, and even then it won’t make it right. This was a misjudged trade, regardless of results. We had plenty of depth on the pitching side and ONE bat on the position side. Now we have arguably 9 (NINE) pitchers capable of being in the rotation, with the B’s and Warren as back ups. He just doesn’t like what he has.
    ///

    +1.

    Pineda doesn’t have to turn into Bob Sykes (nor do i anticipate that) to feel the sting of this trade.

    It really comes down to the rareness of the bat, coupled with it being the lone bat. That seems to be the missing piece of understanding for some. The exceptionalness of the bat.

  129. m March 30th, 2012 at 12:49 am

    Respectfully, luis, this was a misjudged trade in your opinion.

    If Pineda becomes a front-line pitcher for the Yankees, then it can be deemed a good trade. So you can’t deem it bad trade right now.

    Years down the line, writers are not going to say, “doesn’t matter what Pineda is doing now because lohud said it was a bad trade before a single pitch was thrown”. That’s not big-boy analysis. That’s the over the top stuff that was brought up earlier.

    Never going to be a good trade for the Yankees?

  130. GreenBeret7 March 30th, 2012 at 12:51 am

    To me, Pineda’s velo, like everything else in life, is an if until it happens.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Well, to me, it can wait until. He’s doing just fine as he is. Now, just because you don’t like the deal, doesn’t mean it was the wrong deal. Or, in your life, it is until it isn’t. Check back in 1 or 2 or 10 years.

  131. stuckey March 30th, 2012 at 12:51 am

    My comment to you was a result of your statements that said that what i was explaining was basically assumptions and opinions. So i asked you do i have access to the FO? . Nope, therefore all my comments are educated assumptions and opinions.

    _____________________________

    Luis, not sure why you need to point this out. It’s acknowledged by rule.

  132. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 12:52 am

    GreenBeret7 March 30th, 2012 at 12:46 am
    He wasn’t brought in to be a #2 this year.

    So when you said there was:

    GreenBeret7 March 30th, 2012 at 12:04 am
    There was no driving desire to trade Montero, but, there was a driving need to strengthen the front of the rotation.

    you actually meant in the future, even though “driving” is commonly understood to denote some level of urgency?

  133. J. Alfred Prufrock March 30th, 2012 at 12:53 am

    If Montero can never catch 60-80 games a season, or he doesn’t become close to a .900 OPS hitter, they will have been right about him in some sense.
    ///

    I agree with this.

    But he’ll probably catch about 50 games this year .900 OPS seasons we can book, once he gets his bearings. Would have been more like 1.+ as a New York Yankee.

  134. luis March 30th, 2012 at 12:53 am

    Don’t take it out of context. We didn’t NEED Pineda….We needed a bat. So if Pineda becomes an ace it won’t make our offense better. In fact, I think Banuelos and Betances are going to be better than Pineda. And the trio of Phelps, Warren and Mitchell have sown this spring that they can handle MLB’s lineups That’s why i say is a bad trade regardless.

  135. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 12:53 am

    “Well, to me, it can wait until. He’s doing just fine as he is”

    That’s nice. It’s not what they traded for.

  136. Against All Odds March 30th, 2012 at 12:54 am

    stuckey March 30th, 2012 at 12:49 am

    Don’t turn this into every team chases pitching argument.

    ______________________

    Why not?

    ———————————-

    Because ppl always do this when the Yankees are criticized. They always turn it around. One poster says the Yankees should examine how the Rays develop pitching and the next response is either the Rays can’t develop hitters or the Rays have never won a WS.

  137. GreenBeret7 March 30th, 2012 at 12:54 am

    Do you know of any 23 year old inexpensive, established aces that was available? There isn’t any. Even Kershaw isn’t 23 and inexpensive any more.

  138. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 12:55 am

    luis

    Are you referring to my post? If so, you and I may think they needed a bat, but they evidently disagree. Remember, Cashman said he was willing to trade offense for pitching, and he did.

  139. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 12:56 am

    “Do you know of any 23 year old inexpensive, established aces that was available?”

    I don’t know why an ace has to be 23, but it was CASHMAN who said he NEEDED AN ACE for Montero.

    It’s not like he had to make a trade for a future need.

  140. stuckey March 30th, 2012 at 12:57 am

    You know what you’re he wasn’t brought here to be a number 2 behind he was brought here to be a swing man/innings eater. They gave up their top hitting prospect for MP. I’m sure they’re expecting Pineda to pitch very well.
    _____________________

    Not quite sure I get this 100%, but it seems like you’re engaging in circular debate. YOU are creating your own criteria for why the trade was made.

    We don’t know exactly what the expectation the Yankees have for him over the next 5 years, nor do we know what the yankees expectations were for Montero over the next 6.

    You’re deciding what both of those expectations were.

    You’re always going to win an argument where you control the parameters.

  141. Bo knows March 30th, 2012 at 12:58 am

    Yup. He’s a good young pitcher. Electric stuff. Not worth Jesus Montero, though.

    —————————-
    Please, let’s not go there re Montero.

    I’ll say this once

    In my opinion Pineda was brought in for the post season. They had more than enough pitching for the regular season. They wanted two shutdown pitchers to match other teams such as Boston, TB, Philly and so on. Then they can mix and match the remainder. They are probably now in the top five in pitching with added depth in the minors that other teams don’t have.

    I really have a tough time with people demonizing Cashman and Girardi. Cashman was upfront with fans about the trade. More so then I’ve ever seen from any other GM. If Cashman was bright enough to rebuild the farm system from scratch starting in 2006 then he deserves respect for his accomplishment. Montero was part of that system.

    It takes time to build a scouting system, a management team etc all while drafting at the tail end. Now this isn’t talk, it’s fact. This management team decided to trade Montero for Pineda, an exchange of assets. I’m sure discussions raged both pro and con before coming to a decision. It isn’t as if a quality management team had a brain cramp and lost their minds.

    There is more than one way to achieve an objective. You disagree with his methods – Okay, I have no problem with that. It’s the excess that I find offensive, it’s premature at the very least.

  142. J. Alfred Prufrock March 30th, 2012 at 12:58 am

    If Pineda goes out and wins 22-25 games a year for five years, then he’s a right-handed Sandy Koufax and the trade will have been a good one for NY.

    There are no Koufaxes in today’s game. Halladay even, gets overblown. There are no starters like that anymore. There is no pitcher worth an everyday player that can produce like Montero can. He’s ridiculously suited for Yankee Stadium, too. I just hope the Sanchez kid gets here in two years, though that’s asking a lot. 3 years, probably. Never know, though. And for God’s sake, I don’t want to hear a whimper out of them about his “work ethic.” Keep it under your hat, big mouths.

  143. stuckey March 30th, 2012 at 12:58 am

    We didn’t NEED Pineda….We needed a bat.

    ____________________

    Both in YOUR opinion.

    What if you’re wrong?

  144. m March 30th, 2012 at 12:59 am

    I respectfully disagree, luis.

    I believe the Yankees had their reasons and are better equipped to make these decisions. That’s not to say they won’t be wrong on this trade, but I think it’s important to be open-minded and not let emotions get in the way.

    Your argument may have more merit at the end if the season if we drop 14-15 places in the AL offensive rankings. But not before the season starts.

  145. GreenBeret7 March 30th, 2012 at 12:59 am

    NYYs didn’t have 5 healthy, solid, cheap pitchers to start this off season. They had one…Nova and one hope in Hughes. I don’t especially like the trade, but, I’m smart enough that NYYs needed the pitching. They weren’t getting away with smoke and mirrors 2 years in a row. I prefer the security of the pitching that can mtch any other team.

  146. luis March 30th, 2012 at 1:01 am

    Never going to be a good trade for the Yankees?

    Hello M,

    Good to see you around. About my post, yes i think it was a bad trade because even if he becomes an ace ( which i think he will ), didn’t addressed our most glaring need…A bat. We have in our farms as good arms as Pineda…Right now, we have 9 pitchers capable of manning a spot in the rotation. But no bat capable of replacing Arod or Tex’s production in the near future. So yes, regardless of the result it was a bad trade. I would have traded Montero for a bat, not for another arm, we have plenty of those, it was a poor usage of resources.

  147. stuckey March 30th, 2012 at 1:01 am

    I don’t know why an ace has to be 23, but it was CASHMAN who said he NEEDED AN ACE for Montero.

    ____________________

    Yes, because a MLB GM’s job description is to be 100% earnest in all his public comments and his job description is NOT to talk up his own prospects.

    Let’s go with that…

  148. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 1:01 am

    Let’s say the Yankees needed pitching. How can anyone think that Montero was the only trade chip or that Pineda was the only trade target.

    They made a choice. Maybe they will win the trade. I hope they do. But at this point, it’s purely theoretical.

  149. GreenBeret7 March 30th, 2012 at 1:02 am

    I’m done. Time to watch Eliot Ness get Frank Nitti and watch Cinnamin Carter distract the despots so Jim Phelps can overthrow a bad government.

  150. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 1:03 am

    “Your argument may have more merit at the end if the season if we drop 14-15 places in the AL offensive rankings. But not before the season starts.”

    m

    How the Yankees finish the season, and how this trade turns out, are two completely separate issues.

  151. m March 30th, 2012 at 1:04 am

    So you really meant to say, “it will never be a good trade for me”?

  152. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 1:04 am

    I need some sleep. GN.

  153. Against All Odds March 30th, 2012 at 1:05 am

    YOU are creating your own criteria for why the trade was made.

    ——————————-

    No I’m looking at what has happened. The Yankees were chasing pitchers over the past few seasons. They went after Lee three times, made multiple attempts for King Felix, tried to trade for Haren, checked in on Greinke, etc. They wanted to improve the top of the rotation badly. After none of those things materialized they set their sights to Pineda. A young flamethrower that burst on the scene last yr. He filled everything they were looking for: young, cheap, nasty stuff, and a top of the rotation starter . They didn’t bring him here to be a passenger on this ride.

  154. Against All Odds March 30th, 2012 at 1:07 am

    Halladay even, gets overblown.

    ——————————

    I think his praise is justified.

  155. m March 30th, 2012 at 1:08 am

    If people are going to harp on offense, then offensive production is relevant and completely fair to discuss. But not in the spring.

  156. luis March 30th, 2012 at 1:08 am

    m March 30th, 2012 at 12:59 am

    I respectfully disagree, luis.

    I believe the Yankees had their reasons and are better equipped to make these decisions. That’s not to say they won’t be wrong on this trade, but I think it’s important to be open-minded and not let emotions get in the way.

    Your argument may have more merit at the end if the season if we drop 14-15 places in the AL offensive rankings. But not before the season starts.

    ==================================

    You are always respectful M, so no need to emphasize that ;) . Yes they did, of course. They didn’t trust what they had or didn’t believe in certain players upside or deemed Pineda’s better.
    I do think that our team is much better than last season, and has a really good chance to win it all. But i think their logic was flawed, that’s all.
    I hope i didn’t sound angry on any of my previous post, if i did please excuse me.

  157. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 1:09 am

    “If people are going to harp on offense, then offensive production is relevant and completely fair to discuss. But not in the spring.”

    I’m glad I caught this before shutting this thing down.

    m

    It has never been about just this season. There is age related vulnerability on offense and no other near ML ready offensive prospect.

  158. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 1:10 am

    Now I’m really out.

  159. Bo knows March 30th, 2012 at 1:10 am

    Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 12:31 am
    Bo

    Come on, he doesn’t have Verlander’s track record.

    ————————-
    Give him some time, he just got here.

  160. m March 30th, 2012 at 1:11 am

    You didn’t sound angry, but you were adamant! Unusually so!

  161. luis March 30th, 2012 at 1:12 am

    GB7,

    Good night, have a good one without any nightmares about nurse Karloff. :)

  162. luis March 30th, 2012 at 1:12 am

    Good night Rich

  163. J. Alfred Prufrock March 30th, 2012 at 1:13 am

    Please, let’s not go there re Montero.
    ////

    GO WHERE? He’s nearly universally considered a can’t-miss elite hitter. I’m hardly getting fanciful about what he’s likely to do in this game. Sorry, I don’t feel the need to make my posts modest about a hitting talent that isn’t. I feel I’m stating the obvious, and some would agree.

    “In my opinion Pineda was brought in for the post season. They had more than enough pitching for the regular season. They wanted two shutdown pitchers to match other teams such as Boston, TB, Philly and so on. Then they can mix and match the remainder. They are probably now in the top five in pitching with added depth in the minors that other teams don’t have.”

    INTERESTING. I’D ARGUE THEY ALREADY HAD pitching. For me, the postseason is the problem, but not because of pitching. Not enough bats to catch up with good RHP and lay some smart wood on the ball when the game’s hanging in the balance. See 2011 ALDS.

    “There is more than one way to achieve an objective. You disagree with his methods – Okay, I have no problem with that. It’s the excess that I find offensive, it’s premature at the very least.”

    WHAT EXCESS? Saying Montero is going to be a great hitter? I stand by that. Not sure how that is “offensive.”

  164. stuckey March 30th, 2012 at 1:13 am

    “regardless of results”

    _________________________

    I think this well serves to illustrate the philosophical divide on the issue.

    I think this trade could go both ways and to many extremes on both sides. It could ultimately be a disaster, but it could be one of the best trade Cashman ever made.

    Maybe I’ve missed it, but I don’t recall any proponents of the trade declaring it an ultimate victory now and for all time.

    But here is an opponent declaring it doesn’t matter how the principles in the trade perform and it NEVER will.

    How can you argue with that position?

    How can you not recognize a lack of reason and perspective in that position?

  165. luis March 30th, 2012 at 1:14 am

    m March 30th, 2012 at 1:11 am

    You didn’t sound angry, but you were adamant! Unusually so!

    ===============================

    Probably right….I let the emotions take over….I am human after all

  166. Against All Odds March 30th, 2012 at 1:15 am

    GN guys

  167. luis March 30th, 2012 at 1:18 am

    m,

    It won’t happen again.

  168. luis March 30th, 2012 at 1:20 am

    Good night everyone.

  169. J. Alfred Prufrock March 30th, 2012 at 1:20 am

    Against All Odds March 30th, 2012 at 1:07 am
    Halladay even, gets overblown.

    ——————————

    I think his praise is justified.
    ///

    Disagree. He’s a great pitcher by today’s standards. He’s not Koufax or Gibson.

    I’m out, falling asleep. Good night, Odds, luis, Fem, Bo, etc.

  170. Bo knows March 30th, 2012 at 1:30 am

    WHAT EXCESS? Saying Montero is going to be a great hitter? I stand by that. Not sure how that is “offensive

    ———————————-
    Out of context.

    On the one hand you enjoy the hell out of the farm system, a Yankee management product headed by Cashman, his proudest achievement, kudos to him.

    Then, the demonizing of the Yankee management team. It’s like they all got a galloping case of dementia. Or secretly, they all have a professional death wish. Doesn’t wash

    Mind you, the vision of Cashman and Co sitting in a dark corner cackling, does tickle my risibilities.

    Anyway, enough.

    You deserved the courtesy of an explanation.

    endit

  171. m March 30th, 2012 at 1:30 am

    luis,

    You’re a cool customer. :)

  172. J. Alfred Prufrock March 30th, 2012 at 1:32 am

    Final thought: Luis is too classy to prop himself up, and he doesn’t need to.

    He’s extremely erudite about baseball, even though he tells everyone else that they are. He also doesn’t need to apologize to people who are usually the transgressors in discussions with him, but he is never petty, so he’ll end up apologizing to to them, even though he’s more often owed one.

    Have a good night, all.

  173. Jerkface March 30th, 2012 at 1:35 am

    On the topic of trade value re: Warren, Mitchell, Phelps. A guy like Shawn Marcum, who is absolutely not a front line prospect (never top 100) was traded for Brett Lawrie. So these types can have trade value. The important thing is getting them pitching in the big leagues so that they can start building up that good value.

  174. J. Alfred Prufrock March 30th, 2012 at 1:40 am

    hen, the demonizing of the Yankee management team. It’s like they all got a galloping case of dementia. Or secretly, they all have a professional death wish. ///

    Bo, I’ve got to go to bed.

    The Yankees treated Posada like trash. They deliberately embarrassed him, on national television, and insulted him in the offseason with that dumb remark that “He’s the DH, unless he plays himself off of it.” They refused to let him catch Mo’s historic save, ultimate pettiness. Then Cashman further disrespects Posada by calling Martin “Munson.” They earned my dislike and lack of respect I now hold them in.

    They also made what I consider a colossal error of a trade. Therefore, I want them gone.

    I’m not apologizing for calling it like I see it, and I don’t owe them sweet words on his blog.

    You’re free to express your admiration for them, though, just as I will exercise my freedom to criticize them, as I see fit.

    Now I really must go to bed!

    Good one, all.

  175. Jerkface March 30th, 2012 at 1:41 am

    Guys like Ohlendorf, Karstens, McCutchen, and McCallister are not on their level. They were a lower tier of pitching prospect. Especially Karstens, he wasn’t really a prospect when he was traded. And they were not traded for just Nady anyways, the deal included Marte. McCallister went for Kearns after bombing for a season.

    Ohlendorf and Karstens both got major league time and simply weren’t great. Ohlendorf didnt have the secondary pitches and Karstens face was not major league ready. Getting a guy like Warren & Phelps to the majors and having them pitch well will build their trade value.

    Noesi, a prospect in this same tier and a guy who was marginal at best in the majors with the promise for more brought back a likely top 100 guy and a sure fire top 10 guy for the Yankees. Have them pitch more, they will return something of value.

    Its why I didn’t quite understand the need for the Yankees to sign Pettitte, as it just makes the road longer for these guys.

  176. Jerkface March 30th, 2012 at 1:42 am

    “He’s the DH, unless he plays himself off of it.”

    At the time it was said and now I always thought this was a positive comment. That he could play himself into a larger role.

  177. Jerkface March 30th, 2012 at 1:43 am

    According to the internets, the Angels will be paying almost all of Abreu’s contract. Missed opportunity for the Yankees if true, though Bowden is saying the deal is snagging.

  178. J. Alfred Prufrock March 30th, 2012 at 1:45 am

    I’ve been defending Cashman’s system like an idiot since 2006. Well, he just traded away the best player in it. They’re not mutually exclusive, admiring the system, and criticizing their use of it. Good night.

  179. stuckey March 30th, 2012 at 1:46 am

    JF, maybe the Angels didn’t feel like trading Abreu to an AL rival AND paying most of his salary on top of it.

    I’m fairly certain Yankees wouldn’t have traded Burnett directly to a postseason rival.

    It’s only a missed opportunity if it was ever really an opportunity at all, and I can imagine a scenario where it may not have been.

  180. stuckey March 30th, 2012 at 1:49 am

    And in this corner, two guys with admittedly personal axes to grind with the Yankees GM and another who doesn’t think the performance of the players who were traded matters.

    That comment is pure observation of self-confirmed bias, sans any personal color commentary, btw.

    Stands on its own, is my point.

  181. Jerkface March 30th, 2012 at 1:56 am

    Stuckey,

    True, but the Yankees might have something the Angels want. Not to mention they are trading Abreu because they don’t want to play him.

    I would have traded Burnett to the Red Sox in a heart beat :)

  182. Jerkface March 30th, 2012 at 2:01 am

    The Angels did trade Jose Molina to us once :twisted:

  183. CompassRosy March 30th, 2012 at 2:21 am

    StoneLarry
    Rangers have set rotation, & Yu Darvish will make MLB debut Monday, April 9 against Mariners in Arlington. Think that will get coverage?

    :)

    Will definitely have to get home early that day!
    Better yet, just stay downtown and catch the game at a bar…

  184. m March 30th, 2012 at 2:47 am

    Rosy,

    Which 3 pitchers are lining up in front of Yu? I was told that Darvish was the instant ramen if ace pitchers. Just add water and enjoy. :P

  185. Jerkface March 30th, 2012 at 2:58 am

    Which 3 pitchers are lining up in front of Yu? I was told that Darvish was the instant ramen if ace pitchers. Just add water and enjoy.

    They are lining up Darvish so they sell out games they wouldn’t normally sell out :) He is pitching a monday.

  186. m March 30th, 2012 at 3:00 am

    I wonder how much Spike Lee’s vigilantism is going to cost him. He’s reached a settlement with the elderly couple whose address he erroneously retweeted in the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case.

    Apparently their son William George Zimmerman was not the George Zimmerman involved in the neighborhood watch, and hadn’t lived there for years. They were so harassed that they were forced to leave their home.

  187. tucker March 30th, 2012 at 3:00 am

    m says:
    March 30, 2012 at 2:47 am
    Rosy,

    Which 3 pitchers are lining up in front of Yu? I was told that Darvish was the instant ramen if ace pitchers. Just add water and enjoy.
    —-

    The Rangers are starting the fearsome threesome of Colby Lewis, Derek Holland and Harrison …

  188. blake March 30th, 2012 at 7:36 am

    So did we solve the Montero/Pineda debate last night?

  189. MTU March 30th, 2012 at 7:39 am

    Blake-

    Or the who’s out of the Rotation debate ?

  190. MTU March 30th, 2012 at 7:44 am

    Blake-

    Do you know who is starting tonight ?

  191. blake March 30th, 2012 at 7:45 am

    MTU,

    That one will be decided soon….kinda seems like some rumblings suggest maybe Pineda to AAA?

  192. blake March 30th, 2012 at 7:46 am

    MTU

    Pineda I think

  193. MTU March 30th, 2012 at 7:47 am

    thanks Blake.

  194. Yankee Trader March 30th, 2012 at 7:49 am

    Good morning-

    So you think one of Mitchell, Warren or Phelps is going North as the long man out of the pen, Garcia to rotation, and Pineda to AAA to work on his pitches. Then what?

  195. MTU March 30th, 2012 at 7:52 am

    YT-

    What’s your take ?

  196. Yankee Trader March 30th, 2012 at 7:58 am

    Girardi “Because if (Mitchell, Phelps or Warren) were to go with us, it would be more of a long guy than back-to-back.”

    MTU-
    I’m not sure if that statement above is an indication that one of them will be the long man and someone[?Pineda} is going to the minors to take their place in the rotation.

    Now maybe Girardi and Cashman read this blog and agree with a certain poster that because Pineda came to camp overweight, looking like a python who had just swallowed an entire pig, that he wasn’t serious about becoming a NYY! :)

  197. blake March 30th, 2012 at 7:58 am

    If I thought Pineda would respond well mentally to it…..it think id let him start at AAA

    Rotation:
    Sabathia, Kuroda, Nova, Garcia, Hughes
    Pen:
    Rivera, Robertson, Soriano, Logan, Wade, Mitchell, Cabral

    Then shop Freddy and when/if Pineda is ready you bring him up to take Garcia’s spot…..or if injury or ineffectiveness occurs you can do it sooner…..the messiness may come when Andy is ready….because somebody else is gonna have to be bumped as well if Pettite is Pettite.

  198. Tar March 30th, 2012 at 8:03 am

    Good morning to the morning crew :D

    YT and Blake that’s about how I see things shaking out as well.

  199. Yankee Trader March 30th, 2012 at 8:03 am

    Then again, whomever is the #5 starter, pitches 1st in Baltimore, and comes home to face the Twins rather than the home series vs the Angels- a spot that would allow Pineda to build some early confidence.

    I think Nova will be the #3-good track record vs the first two teams he’ll face-the Rays and the Angels.

    Any thoughts?

  200. Yankee Trader March 30th, 2012 at 8:09 am

    Is Pineda pitching today or tomorrow vs minor leaguers? He has done what the Yankees have asked of him-hone the changeup. What if he’s reading the writing on the wall[in the clubhouse], and now starts pumping in some 97-98 fastballs in his next outing, along with a few in the later innings?

    Change your mind?

  201. MTU March 30th, 2012 at 8:10 am

    YT-

    That would just make the decision even harder.

    I wouldn’t be surprised to see a higher velo this time out.

  202. Yankee Trader March 30th, 2012 at 8:11 am

    Blake-

    What has changed, that you now think Cabral gets the spot over Rapada?

  203. Yankee Trader March 30th, 2012 at 8:15 am

    Marc Carig’s take on the rotation:

    http://www.nj.com/yankees/

  204. MTU March 30th, 2012 at 8:21 am

    YT-

    No help from the Carig piece.

    He just outlined much of what we all have been saying of late.

    Guess his crystal ball isn’t working either.

    :(

  205. Yankee Trader March 30th, 2012 at 8:24 am

    Watching replay of DJ Mitchell pitching in the 8th inning on MLB TV network.

  206. MTU March 30th, 2012 at 8:25 am

    YT-

    DJ’s stuff plays up well as a reliever.

    That heavy sinker is great for NYS.

    He gets a ton of GB’s.

  207. MTU March 30th, 2012 at 8:29 am

    Rapada is death on lefties but he is a LOOGY only IMO.

    Cabral is younger and more versatile.

    Will Boone Logan be around forever ?

    Maybe they would like a little insurance ?

    They can try to groom Cabral to take Logan’s spot eventually.

    Hard throwing Lefties with decent 2ndary stuff are hard to come by.

    Cabral is young and still has plenty of upside.

    Who frickin’ knows.

    :)

  208. Villa Nova-Ya March 30th, 2012 at 8:29 am

    Carig didn’t necessarily clear things up, but I liked what Girardi said about the three top AAA guys, and I liked reading Warren’s impressions and the difference in camp for him between last season and this.

  209. Yankee Trader March 30th, 2012 at 8:30 am

    Mitchell showing 4 pitches, keeping them all low-strikes out Chris Davis a lefty, on a CU.

    I think the Yankees are still in the evaluation mode and are exploring trades for Garcia.

  210. Villa Nova-Ya March 30th, 2012 at 8:30 am

    BTW, GB7′s post about the pitching riches was a good one. I’d only add that even with Nova, they weren’t 100% sure he’d be healthy, even though the prognosis was good.

  211. Yankee Trader March 30th, 2012 at 8:32 am

    Villa-

    Warren has been very impressive. Shutting down the starting lineup against the Red Sox, on short notice, was a highlight of this preseason.

  212. MTU March 30th, 2012 at 8:33 am

    Let’s face it.

    The Yankees have all kind of options.

    Most teams would die to have their problems.

    :)

  213. MTU March 30th, 2012 at 8:35 am

    YT-

    Phelps struck out 3 consecutive batters with Men on 2nd and 3rd.

    I’d say that was impressive too !

    :)

  214. blake March 30th, 2012 at 8:35 am

    Trader,

    Nothing really….I just rhinknmagbe they’ll take the upside and versatility of Cabral over Rapada….I wish they could keep them both in the org

  215. MTU March 30th, 2012 at 8:36 am

    Our AAA staff is gonna be sick.

    Better than a lot of ML teams starting staffs.

    ;)

  216. blake March 30th, 2012 at 8:37 am

    I like Phelps a lot ….he’s got a bulldog attitude about him….he also seems to be able to two seem the ball a little which is nice……I think that’s what he froze Wieters with to get out of that jam.

  217. MTU March 30th, 2012 at 8:38 am

    @ AAA :

    Pineda
    Warren
    Phelps
    Betances
    Man-Ban

    Whew ! Yikes !

    :)

  218. MTU March 30th, 2012 at 8:40 am

    blake-

    I like his stuff, his presence, and especially his command of the strike zone.

  219. Yankee Trader March 30th, 2012 at 8:40 am

    MTU-

    Those three that Phelps struck out in the 5th were hacks-Markakis, Jones and Weiters, the last one an a perfect FB on the inside corner. :)

  220. MTU March 30th, 2012 at 8:42 am

    YT-

    Yeah. you’re right. They were just chumps.

    Oh well.

    :(

  221. Yankee Trader March 30th, 2012 at 8:42 am

    *Wieters*

  222. randy l. March 30th, 2012 at 8:42 am

    i have to be amused that some people think i’m the main driver keeping the montero/pineda debate going or was crazy for suggesting soon after the trade that pineda should be going to triple a if the yankees were serious about bringing him up to speed( no pun intended) as an ace.

    http://yankees.lhblogs.com/201...../#comments

    pineda/montero word search:

    “pineda”- 54

    “montero”- 37

    “nova”- 19

    let’s just say there were a lot of implications to this trade and it’s going to be with us for a while.

    had this trade not been made , we wouldn’t have been talking about the possibility of nova being sent back down to AAA.

    if that happens, every minor league pitcher is sent the wrong message. sending pineda down sends the right message to him and the rest of the system’s young pitchers.

    back down

  223. Yankee Trader March 30th, 2012 at 8:43 am

    When does Pineda pitch next? Maybe Chad will let us know at 9.

  224. MTU March 30th, 2012 at 8:44 am

    Randy-

    Credit where credit is due.

    You were the earliest known advocate of Pineda to AAA.

  225. Erin March 30th, 2012 at 8:48 am

    Happy Friday LoHudders. :)

  226. Yankee Trader March 30th, 2012 at 8:49 am

    Mitchell should have gotten out of the 9th inning giving up no runs, if Bill Hall had fielded the high chopper. Very impressive job by Mitchell.

  227. MTU March 30th, 2012 at 8:49 am

    Good Morning Erin.

    :)

  228. comet March 30th, 2012 at 8:52 am

    Happy Friday Erin!!

  229. MTU March 30th, 2012 at 8:53 am

    Greetings Comet.

    :)

  230. comet March 30th, 2012 at 8:54 am

    Good Morning: Erin, MTU, Ray, and YT and Randy, also Blake and Kate.

    I wish we had kept Montero. What’s done is done. I don’t think Noesi made Seattle’s opening day roster.

  231. Yankee Trader March 30th, 2012 at 8:54 am

    Pineda pitches today:

    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....t5ZjO92bpM

  232. randy l. March 30th, 2012 at 8:54 am

    mtu-

    pineda may yet turn out to be an ace.

    i freely acknowledge that, but it’s a probability game. i could see it quickly that he was going to be a high maintenance pitcher who was going to take a lot of supervision and coaching. the kid is a really good kid, but he’s so good he hasn’t really learned the whole craft.

    had he not been so gifted, he would have had more secondary pitches at a younger age. look at baneulous. pineda coming close to 100mph in a way slowed him down. i also think because he has doen this so easily in the past and was given a free pass to the majors by seattle pineda got a mitaken notion about how much work a mlb ace has to do.

    the expectation in yankeeland is ace despite what cashman says to the contrary for the near future.

    i think pineda is going to have to step up his idea of what he has to do to be an ace for the yankees.
    sending him to AAA would send that message to him loud and clear.

    i don’t think the yankees will do that however. my hope right now is that nova is not the sacrificial lamb for pineda being given another free pass that just reinforces that he doesn’t have to work that hard.. we’ll see soon enough.

  233. comet March 30th, 2012 at 8:55 am

    Greeting MTU! How is life out in the west?

  234. comet March 30th, 2012 at 8:56 am

    *** Greetings***

  235. Villa Nova-Ya March 30th, 2012 at 8:57 am

    Randy l -

    One of the thoughts I had this morning, was that the Yankees have indeed hinted that Pineda to AAA could happen in that they’ve said a few times that they are not very familiar with him.

    Also, thinking this about Pineda showing up to ST with the mindset that he just had to get ready for the season (which is what I believe he said). I think had he stayed with Seattle, that would have been 100% true. He would not have been in competition for a job there. So, perhaps now HE knows more about how Yankees spring training works. Whether we think the competitions are staged or not, there are a lot of arms in the Yankees repertoire and the mandate to win, to get to the WS and win it, is stronger than anywhere else. He certainly may not have been ready for this situation – after all, he was an All-Star last year and finished just behind Nova in the ROY vote, right?

    Perhaps the Yankees were remiss in not telling him to come to camp ready to compete for a spot in the rotation. Perhaps he should have known this, but I really can’t blame the kid if he thought he was in, barring injury or a really really bad showing.

    He hasn’t done poorly in ST – I’ve like a lot of what I’ve seen. But so far he hasn’t given distance. Too many pitches in too few innings.

  236. Crawdaddy March 30th, 2012 at 8:57 am

    Pineda and Nova will be on the Opening Day roster.

  237. Yankee Trader March 30th, 2012 at 8:58 am

    Randy-

    After reading the article on Pineda in todays NY Post I could swear that you were consulted, or perhaps wrote the article. :)

  238. Erin March 30th, 2012 at 8:58 am

    Morning Comet!

    New Post: Pineda ready to take his next spring turn

    :arrow:

  239. Yankee Trader March 30th, 2012 at 8:59 am

    New Post—->

  240. MTU March 30th, 2012 at 9:04 am

    Randy-

    I very much hope not. Nova belongs in ML rotation, and Pineda has proven absolutely Zippo in NY.

    As you and others have pointed out Michael might profit from some AAA time.

    He gets a chance to work on that CU; Build his velocity back up; And the Yankees can get an extra year of control.

    It makes a certain amount of sense considering the circumstances.

    If he has a big outing tonight maybe things change ?

    Comet-

    I am on special asignment right now so I’m not out West at the moment but things are good.

    I hope things are good in the land of Molson and Maple leaves.

    Guess you are headed for Palm Springs next Winter.

    Enjoy.

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