The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Early minor league assignments in place

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 30, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

It seems the Yankees have made most of their early minor league assignments. Josh Norris has the lists for each level, with the Triple-A roster obviously very light because of all the guys still in big league camp.

The minor league season opens early this year, and while some of these rosters will change slightly — a few guys will go on the DL to trip the roster size — these seem to be pretty good indications of where guys are opening the season. Just scrolling through it pretty quickly, there are no huge surprises that jump out at me.

If you’re into the minor league system, check Josh’s blog to see where these guys are heading.

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150 Responses to “Early minor league assignments in place”

  1. stuckey March 30th, 2012 at 11:59 am

    If you listen to the fans …..you’ll end up sitting with them.

    ________________________

    blake, I’ll have you know I’m embroidering that into a pillow as we speak…

  2. m March 30th, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    I know the joke is that ball players aren’t the smartest. But Hughes, Nova, Pineda, and Garcia aren’t stupid.

    They know it’s a numbers game, and they see how well everyone is pitching. I don’t feel that any if them are going to crumble or fall apart or get the the wrong message. They know the drill.

  3. Chip March 30th, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    I’m a little surprised to see Zoilo open in AA – I would have thought they would have started him out in AAA.

    I still think though, that given the nonsense with the Yankee AAA team that the organization would be better off keeping their best prospects in AA where they have their own stadium and facilities to call home as opposed to being nomads and sharing facilities with the Rochester squad.

  4. stuckey March 30th, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    Charleston is definitely going to be the first MiL boxscore I check out in the evening.

    Yowza.

  5. CountryClub March 30th, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    Charleston is loaded.

  6. Tackelberry March 30th, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    Looks like the Abreu deal to Cleveland has fallen apart

  7. blake March 30th, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    I think id rather watch Charleston than the Yankees some nights

  8. Tackelberry March 30th, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    I’m a little surprised to see Zoilo open in AA – I would have thought they would have started him out in AAA.

    I still think though, that given the nonsense with the Yankee AAA team that the organization would be better off keeping their best prospects in AA where they have their own stadium and facilities to call home as opposed to being nomads and sharing facilities with the Rochester squad.

    _____________________________________________________

    I think becuase he only spent half a season in AA, they felt it best for him to start there again. If he gets off to a good start, he should earn a quick promtion to AAA, maybe by the end of May

  9. yankeefeminista March 30th, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    Charleston is loaded, but some of those kids should be moving up to Tampa fairly quickly. SI should be loaded as well, filled with many from that studly 2011 GCL team.

  10. DONNYBROOK March 30th, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    The Clev\Abreu hadda Clev\AJ feel to it. Cleveland Now is afraid to do much of anything after emptying the cupboard for Ubaldo.

  11. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    “I know the joke is that ball players aren’t the smartest.”

    I don’t think ballplayers are any smarter or less smart than the general population. In fact, given their money, free time, and access to smart people, they may be smarter than the general population.

  12. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    “Charleston is loaded…”

    If I lived closer (much closer, actually), I would be there once a week.

  13. yankeefeminista March 30th, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    Zoilo needs more work on his pitch recognition/plate discipline/fielding. They like to keep closer to mlb-ready and AAAA types in AAA, but Zoilo will move up quickly if he shows consistency.

    No NY area games for Charleston this year, not even games in Hagarstown, is a downer, but I believe those 4 games vs. Lexington at end of April should be televised on milb-tv, so there is that.

  14. yankeefeminista March 30th, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    “Smart” is a subjective and relative term.

  15. yankeefeminista March 30th, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    Chad, Lohud bus trip to Charleston? :twisted:

  16. Yankee Trader March 30th, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    Might find this article about Teixeira going the other way, interesting:

    http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/

  17. m March 30th, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    So, no comment on my second paragraph? :P

  18. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    ““Smart” is a subjective and relative term.”

    True, but for example, some people diss A-Rod, yet he has shown one of the most savvy baseball minds I have ever heard, and off the field, he gets to talk to Warren Buffet. How can that benefit the way one thinks about the world?

  19. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    “So, no comment on my second paragraph? ”

    O…K… ;)

    On some level, if Nova isn’t part of the rotation, he has been done wrong because of how important he was to the team last season, but he has dealt with that kind of diss before and has handled it well.

    Garcia is a professional and has earned a bunch of money so he’ll deal with it if he has to.

    Pineda’s reaction is the biggest unknown to me, mostly because I know very little about him.

  20. yankeefeminista March 30th, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    Rich, a very analytical and astute baseball mind, hard to miss.

  21. Stoneburner March 30th, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 12:19 pm
    “Charleston is loaded…”

    If I lived closer (much closer, actually), I would be there once a week.

    yankeefeminista March 30th, 2012 at 12:24 pm
    Chad, Lohud bus trip to Charleston?

    ***********

    Maybe if you were an actual scout – who was actually paid to give opinions – instead of waxing poetics and making declared statements which you then say – oh those are just my opinions and my observations, who would not want to know what “I” observed – just maybe if you had the actual scouting ability to perform that job – you would be able to have someone, an employer of a sports franchise – pay for your trip to Charleston. Who are we waxing poetics about today – Daniel Camarena OR are we worried about B.Mitchell’s lack of command of his mid 90s fastball so far.

    The big difference between the scout and fan boy – the scout finds and identifies the Daniel Camarena or Jesus Montero for the fan boy to wax poetics about and dream of generational Frank Robinson comparisons. . . .

    Wax on the poetics fan boys – it is just starting – you have taken over minor league prospect watching for the time being – but the old timers are coming back – the stone in one hand – and the burner in the other. . . .

  22. yankeefeminista March 30th, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    FTR, DRob is pitching with Trenton today. (Norris)

  23. blake March 30th, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    “Maybe if you were an actual scout – who was actually paid to give opinions – instead of waxing poetics and making declared statements”

    Is this kind of talk necessary? Its fine for folks to post about what they see when they go to games…..its up to the reader whether or not to believe them.

  24. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    “Is this kind of talk necessary? Its fine for folks to post about what they see when they go to games…..its up to the reader whether or not to believe them.”

    Who’s even to talking to?

  25. randy l. March 30th, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    “Joe from Long Island March 30th, 2012 at 11:48 am
    i don’t think brian cashman or anyone in the yankees’ front office gives a hoot what the “yankee faithful” thinks, about almost anything, but especially roster moves.

    blake March 30th, 2012 at 11:52 am
    If you listen to the fans …..you’ll end up sitting with them.”

    ok, we have a doctor and a dentist… can we get a lawyer to complete the joke.

    my opinion is that anyone in any business who doesn’t pay attention to what customers think wil soon be out of business.

    now this doesn’t mean you do everything you’re asked to. it doesn’t mean you don’t make a final decision when you’re in control, but to “not give a hoot” or say “if you listen” is really behind the times.

    the yankees should of course be listening to fans like any business should. at the same time innovative companies like apple give people things they don’t even know what they want.
    the yankees need to do both, listen and innovate , and then make the final decision.

    in blakes and joe from long island’s defense , if they meant the
    yankees make the final decision.

    agreed.

  26. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    Cashman has said he reads blogs at times to see what fans think…and then goes the other way. :P

  27. yankeefeminista March 30th, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    Rich, so, should we reverse what we post, so that Cashman does what we want? :)

  28. blake March 30th, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    Randy,

    Yea….I mean you have to listen FO the fans tonsome degree and give then a winner to cheer for…..but what I meant was that you just can’t make decisions based oj a fickle fanbase.

  29. blake March 30th, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    There are a lot of well informed and knowledgable Yankee fans…..however the majority have no idea what they are talking about.

  30. Tom in N.J. March 30th, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    I find it odd that a guy who posts under the last name of a Yankee minor leauger is all pissy over the fact that some fans like to talk about the minor leagues.

  31. G. Love March 30th, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    Very disturbed by the fact that when I read in this thread that both Tex and Cashman “go the other way” I immediately envision them competing on RuPaul’s Drag Race.

    I think I need to go outside for a walk and a small lobotomy.

    If Cashman does read the blogs to find out what not to do, please Brian demote Nova to the minors and don’t you dare consider releasing Ibanez if he doesn’t hit. Also, please don’t lower prices at the stadium. Raise them!

    Hope that worked.

  32. yankeefeminista March 30th, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    G Love, good job. Now it is only a matter of time until all the above don’t happen. ;)

  33. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    yf

    We could do that…

    More seriously, up until the last few years, I thought Cashman was doing a good job, but ever since 2008, either as a result of Joba going down, or Hughes and IPK not being to contribute almost immediately, he seems be more impulsive, either on his own or because his marching orders have changed by ownership.

    Disclaimer: To preempt anyone who thinks otherwise, this is an opinion

  34. ron March 30th, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    Anybody think duda would be a good fantasy pickup while morse recovers???

    30 or more hr??

    I am leaning towards heisey from cin.

    18 hr in 279 ab in 2011.
    Not a great ba or obp,but my league doesn’t count that.
    Just hr,3b,2b,1b,r,sb,etc…

    Easily 30 hr,if 550-600 ab.

  35. Stoneburner March 30th, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    Daily update comparison of fan boy guaranteed generational Jesus Montero to Albert Pujols’s first major league season. This will be updated throughout the season because the fan boys have guaranteed with their childish behavior Montero will match Pujols – instead of just maybe – maybe taking a wait and see approach before they overreacted the way they did. Now these updates are necessary because fan boy fire must be fought with running water and not fire. Now to the numbers:

    Jesus Montero 2012 to date: BA: .173, OBP .173, OBP .173, OPS .286, 0 HRs, 0 2Bs, 0 RBIs, 0 Runs

    Albert Pujols Year One (2001): BA: .329, OBP, .403 OBP, .610 SLG, OPS 1.103, 37 HRs, 130 RBIs, 112 Runs

    Updates will follow.

  36. Joe from Long Island March 30th, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    randy – you get the sum and substance of the comments.

    i guess they probably pay more attention to the fan experience at the ballpark (my wife and actually got interviewed last september, by a yankees’ employee, for about twenty minutes in regards to our experience with every aspect of going to a game at the stadium) than they do about what we think about team construction.

    i guess the line that applies is what the late al davis used to say – just win, baby.

  37. ron March 30th, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    I can really see cashman reading this blog.
    Doesn’t take much,and nobody would know.

    Why not???

  38. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    Or maybe Cashman just wants to know what randy thinks about his um, private life. :D

  39. DONNYBROOK March 30th, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    People are people whatever their profession. To think that Cashman, Girardi, A-Rod, Trump, Limbaugh or anyone else is not influenced by how they are perceived by others, whether it be mentally or physically, is Not realistic. When you look at Cashman’s extortion situation, HE certainly is concerned with how others are looking at him. And don’t go the public vs private life avenue. This cuts to Self confidence.

  40. m March 30th, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    I think Cash has done a pretty good job. 2 guys making over $25M. Another one at $20M. Another two making $15M. Yes he has a bigger budget, but not a lot of flexibility.

    Picked up two relatively cheap players who were underperforming at the time Swisher and Granderson. Most will disagree, but Martin was a good pickup because he was still under control. Garcia, Colon need no explanation.

    Not saying he hasn’t made mistakes, but I think he’s dine a good jib of building good teams as of late while building up a good farm system. Now if only the Yankees and their fans can be patient enough to endure the pains that might come with budgetary constriction of 2014.

  41. BD (Boston Dave) March 30th, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    “Most will disagree, but Martin was a good pickup because he was still under control. ”

    ———-

    frankly, I don’t know how many could disagree at all.

    I see the merit in arguing against signing him to a big multi-year contract after this season, but by and large he was well worth the investment last season.

  42. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    m

    My area of disagreement with Cashman is the utilization of the farm system. He said when he got more power in 2006 that he would prioritize development. To this point (maybe it’s about to change), they haven’t developed a lot of high end prospects.

  43. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    “frankly, I don’t know how many could disagree at all.”

    Well, Martin was the reason they felt free to trade their top catching prospect, I disagree. If they are right and Montero never catchers 60-80 games a season, then they were right.

  44. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    Should read: Well, if…

  45. BD (Boston Dave) March 30th, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    Rich in NJ,

    that’s true, but in 2006 the Yanks farm system was probably regarded as one of the worst in the majors. Now their farm system is at least recognized as (probably) in the top 1/3 of the league.

    but yeah, they need to start churning out some guys that contribute – though trading some away for players like Granderson (and possibly Pineda) shouldn’t count against him.

  46. DONNYBROOK March 30th, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    I like Rusty Martin. I think a lot of fans are ambivalent toward him, simply because he took Posada’s job. Tough act to follow.

  47. m March 30th, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    BD,

    People hold his hitting (though he has decent power) and Cashman’s comment against him.

  48. BD (Boston Dave) March 30th, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    “Well, Martin was the reason they felt free to trade their top catching prospect, I disagree. If they are right and Montero never catchers 60-80 games a season, then they were right.”

    ——–

    Martin was still a relative bargain last year (certainly with the current going rate for catchers.)

    it remains to be seen whether or not keeping Montero would have removed the need to also have another capable catcher.

    but discussing Montero is perhaps my least favorite activity so I’ll leave it at that.

  49. stuckey March 30th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    The “listen to fans” argument is a loser on several levels:

    1.) The Yankees already have a method in place to solicit input from fans and deriving useful information from it.

    Its called gate receipts, merchandise revenue, and TV and radio ratings. These are the purest, most reliable method of cutting through the white noise of anecdotal opinions and evaluate how fans are TRULY responding to the product they are offering.

    Consumerism is the ultimate white noise filter. It weeds out the fans who expect the Yankees to listen to your theirs words rather than their actions.

    2.) Advocates of “listening” should be very, very careful what you wish for.

    The Montero trade, as far as any polling information I’m aware of, was received positively from even hardcore Yankees fan wonks. Even fans on sites like RAB.com judged the trade favorably. I’m unaware of any poll that didn’t rate the trade favorably and I’m asked on many occasions of anyone was aware of any I’m not that showed a different result.

    In other words, if fan reaction to transactions should help inform future transaction, Brian Cashman may be out there dangling Gary Sanchez for a pitching prospect as we speak.

    3.) Yankees, unlike a consumer product manufacturer like Apple, actually has a more complicated task.

    Asking a fan what features they do or don’t like in their iPhone is one thing, and perhaps comparable to asking fans what players they want to come to the ballpark and see, or whether they enjoy home derby or pitching duels.

    But… unlike Apple success is not measured simply by consumer sales. The Yankees have to make moves that will enhance their chances of winning a postseason berth and then postseason games.

    That’s an entirely different dynamic.

  50. BD (Boston Dave) March 30th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    m,

    sure, but they didn’t trade anything away to get Martin and for what he gave them it sure seems like he was a relative bargain.

    I can see some people saying it wasn’t a big deal or that Martin was a stop-gap solution, but I’d have a hard time understanding anyone who thought it was a bad move signing him to that deal.

    His next contract is another situation.

  51. randy l. March 30th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    i don’t know why i don’t like martin a lot. i like him ok.

    i think maybe it was because he was really bad for an extended time last summer.

    if he goes back to being that player, i’m not going to like it.

    if he is good russell martin, maybe i’ll warm up to him.

  52. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    “that’s true, but in 2006 the Yanks farm system was probably regarded as one of the worst in the majors. Now their farm system is at least recognized as (probably) in the top 1/3 of the league.”

    Right, both Cashman and Oppenheimer deserve credit for turning it around.

  53. ET March 30th, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    “Jesus Montero 2012 to date: BA: .173, OBP .173, OBP .173, OPS .286, 0 HRs, 0 2Bs, 0 RBIs, 0 Runs”

    I can’t blame him – he probably was uncomforable hitting in the Tokyo Dome like many hitters are. Once he gets back to the states and starts to get into a groove, he will beast, he is too good not to.

  54. BD (Boston Dave) March 30th, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    “I’d have a hard time understanding anyone who thought it was a bad move signing him to that deal.”

    ———

    minus the argument that Martin cost them Montero, which frankly doesn’t interest me, if for no other reason in that it’s sheer hindsight. When they signed Martin, they needed a catcher.

    but anyway…

  55. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    Can Chad stop the moment to moment player updates?

  56. G. Love March 30th, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    Martin’s problem is one thing & one thing only. He swung out of his shoes in the post season and did nothing to help the team when they needed some sound at bats.

    If Martin had gotten a couple of hits against Detroit people would be singing his praises about how he’s very good behind the plate and isn’t a zero with the bat.

    He was a zero with the bat in the playoffs and he always seemed to come up with guys on base in a crucial clutch situation.

    It’s the same reason why a lot of us are over the Swisher schtick. We’ve been watching his WWE nonsense on a loop where he hypes himself up so much he couldn’t hit a ball off a tee in a big situation. You love that he plays hard (not always smart) but if he’s not going to help the team when the team needs him most you start to get tired of watching the video on repeat.

    Both of those guys need to have good regular seasons and show up ready to play in the post season. A couple of hits that lead to a series win does a lot for how the fans perceive a player.

    Say what you want about Girardi, but he crushed that triple when we needed it in the post season. Same thing with guys like Brosius and Leyritz. The guys who show up when the games count the most are beloved. The guys who shrink in those moments don’t connect with a lot of this fanbase.

  57. BD (Boston Dave) March 30th, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    ““Jesus Montero 2012 to date: BA: .173, OBP .173, OBP .173, OPS .286, 0 HRs, 0 2Bs, 0 RBIs, 0 Runs”

    I can’t blame him – he probably was uncomforable hitting in the Tokyo Dome like many hitters are. Once he gets back to the states and starts to get into a groove, he will beast, he is too good not to.”

    ======

    Montero will do fine. I think the spirit of the post is a facetious look at the argument that some have made that Montero will match Pujols production.

  58. m March 30th, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    I think they’ve had some successes. Those guys might be on other teams, but that could be a trickle down effect. Kennedy went inthe Granderson deal. Tabata was a head case. Hughes us still pitching. Joba most likely will be. If we could get Price, Strasburgh, Harper, Posey, then yeah, we’d be churning out high end prospects, too.

    I don’t disagree. But the Yankees have and will always be a win now team. No matter who the GM is. And I think that’s part if why Cash is a good fit for Steinbrenner ownership. Outside GMs might not like that and it would be difficult to work together.

  59. DONNYBROOK March 30th, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    Again, people are people. Whatever the Bottom Line may be, they are people with feelings and emotions. They hear, they feel, and so the Chatter is Always in the back of their head. It’s that simple.

  60. DONNYBROOK March 30th, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    Regular season, Swish has the numbers to continue his Ultimate Warrior Routine.

  61. yankeefeminista March 30th, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    Rich, I think Cashman all enthused about our young upside arms–Hughes, Joba, IPK–kind of naively went gungho into infusing young pitching into the mlb club without really understanding what kind of necessary growing pains integrating them would necessitate. Then he went all out on Javy to correct that mistake, signed two FA pitchers (luckily or unluckily in the case of AJ, we had the finances to do so). Then Cash got spurned by Cliff Lee, and has been trying to rectify what he couldn’t pull off by trying to trade for an ace with Montero as the centerpiece. No success there with Lee, Halladay, Felix (who Cash was ready to empty the farm for). So, Cash settled for a future ace a la the new mantra to stockpile pitching. Well, you know my opinion on the trade. Cash has done a good job of (re)building the farm, but the jury is still out on how patient Cash will be developing and integrating our upside pitchers, evaluating our position players and on how Cash’s “I have a dream” scenario will work out. I still think Cash will have to go out and get a young big bat before the fruit of the farm position players ripen. But we have a lot of chips to make deals with and a lot of depth. And ultimately Sanchez and a bunch of other upside bats hopefully… However, do I trust Cash the way I once did? No.

    As for Martin, I don’t like his AB’s, period. If he improves I will like him more. It is nothing personal.

  62. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    “But the Yankees have and will always be a win now team. ”

    The problem is that a win-now mentality is often illusory and counterproductive, if winning as many WS as possible is the primary goal.

    They have won because they were able to supplement a homegrown core. As that core exits from the scene, with the backdrop of a CBA that will cause them to tamp down on spending, they may be hard pressed to be a very good team year in and year out, if they don’t start showing more patience to both pitchers and position players.

  63. Yanks78 March 30th, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    From a player-for-player value standpoint, it was a fair trade. It doesn’t take into account external factors, such as current needs, future need, injury risk comparison, etc.

    Yankees fans, from my observations, want to support the trade and are trying to rationalize it was a good trade. Like with any fanbase, Yankee fans, on the whole, want to try and support/rationalize every move the organization makes. Even if people feel questionable about the trade, it is only natural for most fans to take the positive approach and support the player and organization, while accentuating the benefits/upside/positive aspects of the deal while ignoring or diminishing the negative.

    The media’s opinion in trades is far from relevant. They only know both players in a broad sense and are attached to the “pitching pitching pitching” manta, which clouds their perception on trades – almost ANY position player for pitcher swap with upside will be lauded for the team acquiring the pitcher. They also likely rattle off the names in their mind – ARod, Jeter, Swisher, Tex, Cano, etc. to portray the Yankees offense like it is some juggarnaunt, again, without taking into account age, present-day production, and future outlook. In addition, they probably have no clue about the composition of the Yankees farm – pitching heavy, position-player light, when making their evaluation. Their opinion is based purely on the value for value swap.

  64. blake March 30th, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    “Its called gate receipts, merchandise revenue, and TV and radio ratings. These are the purest, most reliable method of cutting through the white noise of anecdotal opinions and evaluate how fans are TRULY responding to the product they are offering. ”

    Stuckey nails it.

  65. austinmac March 30th, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    Martin is a pretty good catcher and evidently handles the pitchers well. However, I don’t see that as equating to an long term contract if he hits .240. I’m not sure anyone would consider him for such. Remember, he was released last year.

    With respect to Montero’s current stats. It’s two games. Maybe we should evaluate the trade pitch by pitch and at bat by at bat. Now, that would get Cashman’s ear.

  66. BD (Boston Dave) March 30th, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    “As for Martin, I don’t like his AB’s, period.”

    ——–

    but for $4M on a 1yr deal (2011) with the arb option for 2012, you can’t expect good defense AND a top hitting catcher :)

    that’s where the debate over what he’s worth in his next contract comes in…

  67. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    yf

    To me, you are painting the picture of someone who has no real strategy, instead employing a series of tactics.

  68. blake March 30th, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    I don’t think even JAP really believes that Montero will put up the numbers that Pujols has…..that’s just so rare to actually have the talent and then convert it to production like that…..but the point isn’t that he will fill up the back of the baseball card exactly like Albert…..it’s that he’s a potential elite hitter ….and those are scare these days.

  69. m March 30th, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    So if he improves his mechanics at the plate and gets good results, you’ll stop calling him Russell “Munson” Martin? ;)

  70. blake March 30th, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    I think Martin is fine so long as the offense is good enough elsewhere that they can carry his inconsistent bat….he’s a good bridge guy…..I was hoping he’d be a bridge to Montero….but now maybe he can be a bridge to Sanchez…we’ll see. I’d love to sign Miguel Montero…..or Brian McCann in a couple of years…..but they probably just don’t fit the budget structure they are dealing with……Martin may and if he does then they could do worse short term than him.

  71. DONNYBROOK March 30th, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    Numbers, formulas, and spread sheets rule the day once again. Simplistic, and does Not consider the human element.

  72. stuckey March 30th, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    He was a zero with the bat in the playoffs and he always seemed to come up with guys on base in a crucial clutch situation.

    ____________________________

    It may have seemed that way, but it isn’t true. And this is why legend often replaces fact in the hearts and minds of fans.

    Martin has 3 AB’s in the series with RISP. He was indeed 0-3. But 2 of those bats came in games the Yankees won.

    With a runner on firsr, Martin had 10 PAs. He walked twice, got hit by 2 pitches, and singled, for a .500 OBP.

    He popped out with the bases loaded and 1 out in game 5.

    He did not have an overall good offensive series.

    The rest of what you think you remember you’ve built up in your mind.

  73. yankeefeminista March 30th, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    # blake March 30th, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    “Its called gate receipts, merchandise revenue, and TV and radio ratings. These are the purest, most reliable method of cutting through the white noise of anecdotal opinions and evaluate how fans are TRULY responding to the product they are offering. ”

    Stuckey nails it.

    _____
    Season tickets are down this year. You can pick up season tickets behind the plate in the most coveted sections that you could never buy before. Saturday plans, which were impossible to get are now readily available. Fans have been bailing because of the prices and the Yankees bad customer service. They stripped 41 game plan holders of Opening Day, but offered it this year in a 12 game package to entice new plan holders. Everyone is now buying tickets on Stubhub instead. Maybe the move to credit card codes will affect the secondary market, but right now the Yankees are taking a big hit in the season ticket market.

  74. blake March 30th, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    YF,

    so perhaps the “budget” isn’t sitting well with the fanbase since the prices of everything keeps going up?

  75. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    All sports teams are benefiting from the fragmentation of the television viewing audience, and the formation of niche programming that has an inherent hardcore following. It has made every sports network a goldmine.

  76. blake March 30th, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    but even moreso than attendance….I would think the YES ratings are a better indication of what the fans actually think. HD TV in general is making fans less likely to fight through traffic etc to go to games unless the experience is worthwhile…..and that doesn’t mean ridiculous food prices and rude staff at the stadium.

  77. yankeefeminista March 30th, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    # BD (Boston Dave) March 30th, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    “As for Martin, I don’t like his AB’s, period.”

    ——–

    but for $4M on a 1yr deal (2011) with the arb option for 2012, you can’t expect good defense AND a top hitting catcher :)

    that’s where the debate over what he’s worth in his next contract comes in…
    ___
    I don’t disagree, and it will be interesting to see what the Yankees believe he is worth, especially if his hitting doesn’t improve. However, they did make the choice to dilute the catching position as a hit tool, so there is that choice and do they sign someone else with good D and no bat to bridge the gap to Sanchez/JR et al, especially if Romine continues to have chronic back problems. So, it will be interesting to see what their modus operandi is in terms of what they want on D and O from their stopgap catching position…

  78. J. Alfred Prufrock March 30th, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    Yanks78 March 30th, 2012 at 1:26 pm
    From a player-for-player value standpoint, it was a fair trade. It doesn’t take into account external factors, such as current needs, future need, injury risk comparison, etc.

    Yankees fans, from my observations, want to support the trade and are trying to rationalize it was a good trade. Like with any fanbase, Yankee fans, on the whole, want to try and support/rationalize every move the organization makes. Even if people feel questionable about the trade, it is only natural for most fans to take the positive approach and support the player and organization, while accentuating the benefits/upside/positive aspects of the deal while ignoring or diminishing the negative.

    The media’s opinion in trades is far from relevant. They only know both players in a broad sense and are attached to the “pitching pitching pitching” manta, which clouds their perception on trades – almost ANY position player for pitcher swap with upside will be lauded for the team acquiring the pitcher. They also likely rattle off the names in their mind – ARod, Jeter, Swisher, Tex, Cano, etc. to portray the Yankees offense like it is some juggarnaunt, again, without taking into account age, present-day production, and future outlook. In addition, they probably have no clue about the composition of the Yankees farm – pitching heavy, position-player light, when making their evaluation. Their opinion is based purely on the value for value swap.
    ////

    This.

    Said the same thing myself, more than once, in here.

    Right: perceived weakness is opposite to actual weakness; perceived strength opposite to actual strength.

    Like I’ve said, I would have been suprised if the general response to this deal was negative. It takes a more thoughtful look at the Yankees – past cumulative runs scored, etc. – for the true picture to come into focus. The hazy one is what generalists build their sound bites on. And yes, no knowledge of the farm and what’s realistic from it in the short-term.

  79. yankeefeminista March 30th, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    “and that doesn’t mean ridiculous food prices and rude staff at the stadium.”

    It is not these or the traffic, as per what fans have been posting but more about the Yankees not honoring seniority and giving newbies prime seats while not upgrading based on longevity. Also season ticket holders who have tix on the $5 days, aren’t given the same price. Long time fans have been torn about dumping their plans they so identify themselves with having Yankee season tickets but the above and the cheap secondary market have made people who otherwise wouldn’t give up their tickets as a result.

  80. champ809 March 30th, 2012 at 1:44 pm

    Zoilo’s m.o. is that he struggles first time through a new level then he adjusts settles in and can be at times a dominant dynamic type player for long stretches. He’s very much like Abe Almonte in that way.
    Both guys were locked in as soon as spring started and if they can get off to hot starts this season in Trenton they will make it to AAA before the years out as both are impact 2nd half performers in their careers. Strangely it seems to coincide with the warmer weather…

    Zoilo has less than 200 abs in Trenton last year but started to come on at the end off the season and I think really hits this year in Trenton. Having the kind big league camp that he did and having the manager and F.O. guys really take notice and talk him up they way they have has to make him really taste how close he is to his shot.

    He reminds me in a lot of ways of Ivan Nova in that there was always a feeling with him that he just needed a lil bit more confidence and self belief in his talent to really play up his tools. That’s been the transformation that Nova went through finally over the last 2 years. It was similar to Robbie when he was coming up where the tools were always ahead of the absolute performance but the stretches where it all came together where the glimpses of what he’d become.

    In fact the sleeper team this year in the system is that Trenton team as they are stacked with guys poised to have breakout seasons this year.

    They OF of Zoilo Almonte in LF/Abe Almonte in CF and Melky Mesa in RF is ridiculous defensively as Abe and Melky are the 2 best CF’ers in the entire league and their offensive skillsets are comparable to Bernie Williams for Zoilo, Jose Reyes for Abe and Alfonso Soriano’s bat with Austin Jackson’s glove and Vlads arm for Mesa.

    The infield of Mustelier 3B, Ibarra SS, Dave Adams/Jose Pirela 2B-SS and Rob Lyerly 1B features 4 above avg to potentially elite hitters in Adams/Lyerly/Ibarra and Mustelier and Pirela’s bat is underrated as well.

    In the ‘ro you have Brett Marshall and Graham Stoneburner what are a notch below Banny and Bettances but a slightly more upside than say a Warren or Phelps stuff-wise.

    In the pen you’ve got live arms in Chase Whitley, Preston Claiborne and Ryan Flannery as well as the crowd fav Pat Veniditte.

    Very good pieces and I think it’s going to be a real good year in Trenton this season. At some point guys like Nick Turley, Jose Campos, Jose Ramirez and JR Murphy may get promoted and join in that mix as well. Good stuff!

  81. yankeefeminista March 30th, 2012 at 1:44 pm

    add *”give them up” as a result.

  82. stuckey March 30th, 2012 at 1:44 pm

    blake and YF are both onto something.

    What’s happening with ticket sales definitely has to be accounted for, but measured against media ratings.

    The will provide more nuanced insight to determine whether ticket sales are more of a model correction (NNY as a business model is still new) or some sort of response to the on-the-field product.

    Both (separately or together) are possibilities, though.

  83. Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    blake

    How powerful is YES’ pull on fans? They have mostly terrible broadcasters and relatively poor programming, for example, in comparison to SNY, which has a nightly news show, and much more interesting stuff, imo, but the Yankee brand has made it a financial behemoth. I actually think if they had better programming they could be even stronger, but obviously, they are doing fine. As for the broadcasters, a 5 year old could take Kay’s job, and the ratings wouldn’t go down at all.

  84. austinmac March 30th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    Obviously, the Yankee management can’t make decisions based upon what the fans think. Presumably, they have much more information.

    However, as I have said a number of times, fans like a big splash. It creates excitement and hope. If the Yankee fans perceive the team is not going all out to win anymore, then the team income and value can readily plummet. Look at the Mets as an example.

    If the 2014 budget target is paramount, and if the team doesn’t win, it will cost the team far, far more the they will save.

  85. blake March 30th, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    Rich,

    totally agree….YES has the Yankees and that’s really all they need so long as the team is winning and the fanbase is happy…..what happens though if that starts to change?

  86. luis March 30th, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    yankeefeminista March 30th, 2012 at 1:25 pm
    Rich, I think Cashman all enthused about our young upside arms–Hughes, Joba, IPK–kind of naively went gungho into infusing young pitching into the mlb club without really understanding what kind of necessary growing pains integrating them would necessitate. Then he went all out on Javy to correct that mistake, signed two FA pitchers (luckily or unluckily in the case of AJ, we had the finances to do so). Then Cash got spurned by Cliff Lee, and has been trying to rectify what he couldn’t pull off by trying to trade for an ace with Montero as the centerpiece. No success there with Lee, Halladay, Felix (who Cash was ready to empty the farm for). So, Cash settled for a future ace a la the new mantra to stockpile pitching. Well, you know my opinion on the trade. Cash has done a good job of (re)building the farm, but the jury is still out on how patient Cash will be developing and integrating our upside pitchers, evaluating our position players and on how Cash’s “I have a dream” scenario will work out. I still think Cash will have to go out and get a young big bat before the fruit of the farm position players ripen. But we have a lot of chips to make deals with and a lot of depth. And ultimately Sanchez and a bunch of other upside bats hopefully… However, do I trust Cash the way I once did? No.

    As for Martin, I don’t like his AB’s, period. If he improves I will like him more. It is nothing personal.

    __________________

    QFT

  87. DONNYBROOK March 30th, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    I was a Yankee fan back in the mid to late 60′s when those Yankee teams were Horrible. MyDad took us to see the Yanks when they came to town, I watched them when they would play on The Sat “Game of the Week”, I owned a Yankee T-Shirt, and frequently wore a NY Cap. I was NOT happy with the “Product”, yet I contributed to the revenue stream. You can NOT equate a revenue stream to whether fans are happy with a team. Being a Yankee fan is frequently “handed down” from generation to generation. There is a human element involved. Solely relying on numbers, once again falls flat on it’s face.

  88. yankeefeminista March 30th, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    Stuckey, Martin’s playoff AB’s were putrid. His swing was long and mechanically fatal. Go watch the AB’s, the numbers as bad as they are, do not do justice to how counterproductive his mechanics were. Hopefully, he shows better mechanics going forward.

  89. luis March 30th, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    Yanks78 March 30th, 2012 at 1:26 pm
    From a player-for-player value standpoint, it was a fair trade. It doesn’t take into account external factors, such as current needs, future need, injury risk comparison, etc.

    Yankees fans, from my observations, want to support the trade and are trying to rationalize it was a good trade. Like with any fanbase, Yankee fans, on the whole, want to try and support/rationalize every move the organization makes. Even if people feel questionable about the trade, it is only natural for most fans to take the positive approach and support the player and organization, while accentuating the benefits/upside/positive aspects of the deal while ignoring or diminishing the negative.

    The media’s opinion in trades is far from relevant. They only know both players in a broad sense and are attached to the “pitching pitching pitching” manta, which clouds their perception on trades – almost ANY position player for pitcher swap with upside will be lauded for the team acquiring the pitcher. They also likely rattle off the names in their mind – ARod, Jeter, Swisher, Tex, Cano, etc. to portray the Yankees offense like it is some juggarnaunt, again, without taking into account age, present-day production, and future outlook. In addition, they probably have no clue about the composition of the Yankees farm – pitching heavy, position-player light, when making their evaluation. Their opinion is based purely on the value for value swap.

    _____________________________

    QFT

  90. Chip March 30th, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    My guess is that Angels’s blogs are blowing up right now with word that the Angels have decided to send Mike Trout to AAA rather than put him on the roster.

  91. J. Alfred Prufrock March 30th, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    blake March 30th, 2012 at 1:30 pm
    I don’t think even JAP really believes that Montero will put up the numbers that Pujols has…..that’s just so rare to actually have the talent and then convert it to production like that…..but the point isn’t that he will fill up the back of the baseball card exactly like Albert…..it’s that he’s a potential elite hitter ….and those are scare these days.
    ///

    If you want to get technical, JAP said they traded a young Albert Pujols – if you’re ok with that, then you’re okay with that.

    That has been distorted to translate as “young” Pujols means the young Montero will pace Pujols’s rookie season numbers in HIS rookie season. Never said it. Not that I care what people in here say, though :). Laughing at Montero’s bat is what’s mock worthy. We’ll see who’s laughing last: I’m betting on the sweet stroking Venezuelan :D

  92. blake March 30th, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    “If the 2014 budget target is paramount, and if the team doesn’t win, it will cost the team far, far more the they will save.”

    absolutely….winning feeds the Yankee machine…..NY isn’t the north side of Chicago where fans will go to get a tan and eat hogs dogs whether their team is any good or not.

  93. luis March 30th, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    This.

    Said the same thing myself, more than once, in here.

    Right: perceived weakness is opposite to actual weakness; perceived strength opposite to actual strength.

    Like I’ve said, I would have been suprised if the general response to this deal was negative. It takes a more thoughtful look at the Yankees – past cumulative runs scored, etc. – for the true picture to come into focus. The hazy one is what generalists build their sound bites on. And yes, no knowledge of the farm and what’s realistic from it in the short-term.

    =====================

    Spot on.

  94. luis March 30th, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    Yankeefem, Rich, Yanks78; JAP,

    You basically explained my line of thought from last night, in a way that i could never dream of.

    Thank you.

  95. Chip March 30th, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    Speaking of blogs blowing up – how excited are Red Sox fans about the notion of Cody Ross and Ryan Sweeney as their corner OF until at least May?

  96. blake March 30th, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    JAP,

    yea…I was just saying that the Pujols comparasion that you make is often taken out of context I believe….I believe he has that sort of physical ability…..the rest (between the ears and work ethic related) is what we’ll have to see about.

  97. yankeefeminista March 30th, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    Yanks78, good post.

  98. blake March 30th, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    “how excited are Red Sox fans about the notion of Cody Ross and Ryan Sweeney as their corner OF until at least May?”

    at least as excited as they are about the back of their rotation.

  99. Chip March 30th, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    blake March 30th, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    “If the 2014 budget target is paramount, and if the team doesn’t win, it will cost the team far, far more the they will save.”

    absolutely….winning feeds the Yankee machine…..NY isn’t the north side of Chicago where fans will go to get a tan and eat hogs dogs whether their team is any good or not.
    ——————-

    I don’t think one off year (which is far from a guarantee even if the Yankees do pare payroll) is going to drive Yankee fans into hiding. 2008 didn’t.

    And remember – it is just a one year deal – if they get to 189 for 2014 the clock resets and they can do whatever they want.

  100. austinmac March 30th, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    Donnybrook,

    The Yankees drew under a million people with those bad teams. The only thing about a losing team that will pass down from one generation to another is disinterest in a bad product. It is a huge mistake to think the Yankees will always be the cash cow they are now.

  101. yankeefeminista March 30th, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    Luis, de nada, but you have expressed yourself quite substantively and eloquently on numerous occasions.

  102. luis March 30th, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    Hello everyone, by the way.

  103. jacksquat March 30th, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 1:01 pm
    Or maybe Cashman just wants to know what randy thinks about his um, private life.

    Maybe Cashman was knew how much Randy liked Montero and how much Randy hated him, so he traded Montero just to spite him.

    So we can all blame Randy for Montero being traded. :mad:

  104. champ809 March 30th, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    yankeefeminista March 30th, 2012 at 1:40 pm
    # BD (Boston Dave) March 30th, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    “As for Martin, I don’t like his AB’s, period.”

    ——–

    but for $4M on a 1yr deal (2011) with the arb option for 2012, you can’t expect good defense AND a top hitting catcher

    that’s where the debate over what he’s worth in his next contract comes in…
    ___
    I don’t disagree, and it will be interesting to see what the Yankees believe he is worth, especially if his hitting doesn’t improve. However, they did make the choice to dilute the catching position as a hit tool, so there is that choice and do they sign someone else with good D and no bat to bridge the gap to Sanchez/JR et al, especially if Romine continues to have chronic back problems. So, it will be interesting to see what their modus operandi is in terms of what they want on D and O from their stopgap catching position…
    _______________________________________________________________________

    if the Yanks are serious about that 189mm number for 2014 the Martin is gone. After that Molina contract and guys like Lucroy and Perez signing 5yr deals with no track record, coming off a good year then Martin will be in-line for possibly a 4-5yr/12mm per contract which is mind boggling to me.

    The most prudent thing to do would be to let him walk, promote Cervelli to #1 C if he shows improved D this season with Romine as the #2 and get him in about 60 or so games. I’ve got a feeling that Sanchez is going to come a lot quicker than most think. His D this spring has been sick and he’s killing everything coming across the plate right now.

    Cervelli and Romine could give you enough bat in the #9 hole to carry them for a season or twon until Sanchez or JR Murphy is ready for about $2.5MM total salary for the C spot for 2 seasons. Makes too much sense to save the $ at this position and allocate those funds to extensions for Robbie and maybe Grandy instead.

  105. stuckey March 30th, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    YF, I acknowledged he had a bad (albeit not as bad at tex Arod and Jeter) offensive PS. I offer no argument.

    But I’m also aware a perception has grown that he came up in big situations often in that 5 game series.

    He did not.

    He came up and failed in a big spot once.

    That’s all I’m trying to illuminate.

  106. yankeefeminista March 30th, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    Being a Yankee fan is frequently “handed down” from generation to generation. There is a human element involved. Solely relying on numbers, once again falls flat on it’s face.
    ________
    Agree. Yankee fans always so identify with their Yankee heritage/ties that they will always have that going for them. Being a Yankee fan is part of the very fiber of ones being.

  107. Chip March 30th, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    blake March 30th, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    “how excited are Red Sox fans about the notion of Cody Ross and Ryan Sweeney as their corner OF until at least May?”

    at least as excited as they are about the back of their rotation.
    —————–

    I love that they traded a good RF and a serviceable SS for two closers with an eye towards making Bard a starter and now they’re moving Bard back to the pen…giving them three closers no OF and no SS.

  108. austinmac March 30th, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    Chip,

    Actually, they must stay below $189M for 2014 and 2015 for full savings according to what I have read. Therefore, including this year, that is four years they will not spend on a multi-year free agent conttact. That will make a difference.

  109. blake March 30th, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    “And remember – it is just a one year deal – if they get to 189 for 2014 the clock resets and they can do whatever they want.”

    actually isn’t it two years….I think it was reported that they had to be under in both 2014 and 2015 to reap the benefits?…..but I agree that one bad year won’t drive folks away….and I’m not expecting them to have a bad year…..

    however do remember what they did after 2008….they went out and spent a boatload of money to revamp the team and won the WS the next year…..so I’d say that lifted spirits of the fans a bit wouldn’t you think…..if they for example failed to reach the playoffsin 2014 and then preached “budget” the following offseason would they react the same way? I don’t know about that.

  110. J. Alfred Prufrock March 30th, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    Rich in NJ March 30th, 2012 at 1:26 pm
    “But the Yankees have and will always be a win now team. ”

    The problem is that a win-now mentality is often illusory and counterproductive, if winning as many WS as possible is the primary goal.

    They have won because they were able to supplement a homegrown core. As that core exits from the scene, with the backdrop of a CBA that will cause them to tamp down on spending, they may be hard pressed to be a very good team year in and year out, if they don’t start showing more patience to both pitchers and position players.
    ///

    Good post. What I find ironic, is that most people (all?) who advocated for Montero being moved for a “front-end arm” were so positioned because they adhere to the “win now” stuff.

    Could Pineda be a stud this year? Sure – he’s got a lot of talent. However, he also could swing the other way this year and have “pitching project” moments, stretches. We’re hearing from the same group, that “that’s OK…he’s young; have patience.” I find this laughable; not because one shouldn’t have patience with a 23-year old with his kind of stuff, but because the terms have now morphed into something that defies the original terms for why Montero would HAVE to be moved: in order to deliver a legit No. 2 for CC to pair with, and here’s the clincher: WHILE JETER AND ALEX ARE STILL ABLE TO BE DIFFERENCE MAKERS AND WHILE MO IS STILL MO.

    Well…. no patience for Joba, Hughes, none for Betances (whom no one even saw pitch much before this ST, who can’t be relied on, apparently, for anything but relief role for the future) and NO patience for a DH/catcher who OPS’d over 1. for the Yankees in his first taste of the majors.

    But for Pineda, if this is just a season of learning for him, or if he has the 2nd year blues and his arm is a little tired, no biggie…just relax everyone, and HAVE PATIENCE with the youngsters! :D

  111. blake March 30th, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    I love how they traded their SS so that they could sign a starter and then never signed a starter.

  112. Chip March 30th, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    austinmac March 30th, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    Chip,

    Actually, they must stay below $189M for 2014 and 2015 for full savings according to what I have read. Therefore, including this year, that is four years they will not spend on a multi-year free agent conttact. That will make a difference.
    ————-

    My bad on the years.

    Though I think it’s overstating that they won’t sign players to multiyear deals. They have a ton of money coming off the books in the coming two years – and at least a few of the players (Kuroda, Rivera, Soriano) are likely to be replaced from within. Really there are three spots where they’re going to have to deal with contracts and that’s RF, CF, 2b.

    They’ll keep Cano and likely Granderson – Swisher is another issue.

  113. Chip March 30th, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    blake March 30th, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    I love how they traded their SS so that they could sign a starter and then never signed a starter.
    ————–

    That’s true too.

  114. stuckey March 30th, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    I was a Yankee fan back in the mid to late 60?s when those Yankee teams were Horrible. MyDad took us to see the Yanks when they came to town, I watched them when they would play on The Sat “Game of the Week”, I owned a Yankee T-Shirt, and frequently wore a NY Cap. I was NOT happy with the “Product”, yet I contributed to the revenue stream. You can NOT equate a revenue stream to whether fans are happy with a team. Being a Yankee fan is frequently “handed down” from generation to generation. There is a human element involved. Solely relying on numbers, once again falls flat on it’s face.

    _________________________

    Donny, you completely overlooked my main point.

    That was YOUR anecdotal experience.

    I say this often, I grew up as a Yankee fan watching Don Mattingly hit upper deck homeruns into a sea of blue seats. If the camera cut back to the upper deck while Mattingly was rounded third, you’d see one or 2 fans runnings where where they’re seats where near first base to try to retrieve the ball.

    That, compared to today, is useful data.

    Pittsburgh Pirates have fans. That is not in dispute.

    The point is consensus. A large body of fans collectively moving the needle.

  115. J. Alfred Prufrock March 30th, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    yankeefeminista March 30th, 2012 at 1:56 pm
    Luis, de nada, but you have expressed yourself quite substantively and eloquently on numerous occasions.
    ///

    +1. Luis is ever the gentleman, deferring, but also a very discriminating baseball mind. One of the sharper ones here.

  116. pat March 30th, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    JonHeyman
    #braves are signing livan

  117. Howe Farr March 30th, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    Donnybrook,
    Your reality doesnt reflect reality. Just a quick glance at attendance numbers of the early 90′s show the yankees just barely hitting the 2M attendance mark. In 98, the got real close to 3M and haven’t looked back, now they average around 3.5M. So yes, you put a good product on the field, people will come.
    It takes one highlight reel of Mattingly hitting a homerun in the early 90′s to a pile of seats, not fans.

  118. DONNYBROOK March 30th, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    And NOW Schilling is piling on.

    PROJECTED AL EAST STANDINGS

    (1) NEW YORK YANKEES
    (2) TAMPA BAY RAYS
    (3) TORONTO BLUE JAYS
    (4) BOSTON R\SOX
    (5) BALTIMORE ORIOLES

  119. Howe Farr March 30th, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    Sad how we all remember Mattingly hitting those homeruns to empty seats. Still breaks my heart that he missed out on all of the fun. (Even as a coach)

  120. Bret The Hitman March 30th, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    Maybe the Sox will trade for Johan Santana at the deadline?

  121. J. Alfred Prufrock March 30th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    But I’m also aware a perception has grown that he came up in big situations often in that 5 game series.

    He did not.
    //

    A “five-game” series isn’t “often”, it’s over in the blink of an eye. Because of AB’s like Martin’s it meant no more than five postseason games.

    Watch the ABs. Jeter didn’t swing at air in his ABs. He nearly hit one out to RF to save Game 5. Qualitative observation is in order: the guy was utterly overmatched.

  122. Stoneburner March 30th, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    No backtracking allowed fan boys – none of this – well I did not actually mean Pujols – total BS backtracking – Pujols and generational – that is the standard fan boys set with all of their overreaction in January, February, for crying out loud it is still going on – March. If the fan boys had just taken a more measured approach and not overreacted – these updates would not be necessary. Now, the daily updates will continue and at the end of the season – the numbers will do the talking – not the generational poetics the fan boys cried, sobbed, and waxed over during the winter. Mind you – I would have been okay with Montero as an impact bat – a middle of the order bat talk – but when you mention “generational,” “Mantle,” and “Pujols” – yeah you are going to get these updates. And I will update the good stats with the bad stats. . . .

    (note – the only time I will be unable to do an update is if family or work related issues develop – other than that – I will do my best to see the updates through. . . .)

  123. DONNYBROOK March 30th, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    - FARR -
    Point centered on whether fans were happy with a product, based on revenue figures. Lotta people go to see\$$$ Adam Sandler Flicks. That doesn’t mean they are Thrilled when leaving the theatre.

  124. blake March 30th, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    “Maybe the Sox will trade for Johan Santana at the deadline?”

    the Mets would have to pay most of the salary seeing as how Boston has their own payroll issues….they are up against the tax for this season (which they don’t like to pay).

  125. luis March 30th, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    yankeefeminista March 30th, 2012 at 1:56 pm
    Luis, de nada, but you have expressed yourself quite substantively and eloquently on numerous occasions

    =================================

    But not as suscinct and clear as you guys did. I said that the trade was a failure regardless of results for the reasons you all very well explained:

    The only way this trade is a victory for management is that all the following conditions are met, IMO:

    1)Both B´s, Marshall, Noesi and DePaula are a bust, because then the FO could argue that you needed Pineda, if one or two of those prospects fullfills his potential, Pineda was redundant. Even if he becomes the ace. His impact won´t be as important if you have many very good pitchers.

    2) If Montero fails completely. And even then, you could argue that he should have been traded for a bat.

    3) The offense manages to stay productive for the next three years without any noticeable declines. And even then, you could argue that he relied on “luck” rather than a good move.
    Risk Management 101: You leave as little as you can to chance. I rather have a Management that´s good rather than lucky.

    That´s why i think that there is no way that this trade could be viewed as good one, regardless of how the players involved perform.

  126. Chip March 30th, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    Bret The Hitman March 30th, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    Maybe the Sox will trade for Johan Santana at the deadline?
    —————————–

    My guess is that now that the Madoff thing is done the Mets aren’t going to be dumping any more salary.

  127. J. Alfred Prufrock March 30th, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    blake March 30th, 2012 at 1:54 pm
    JAP,

    yea…I was just saying that the Pujols comparasion that you make is often taken out of context I believe….I believe he has that sort of physical ability…..the rest (between the ears and work ethic related) is what we’ll have to see about.
    ///

    We’ll have to see, because now he’s got go and do it. Barring health concerns, I can’t see how he doesn’t live up to his advanced billing. Once they realize going inside is also a losing proposition, where do they pitch him? He’s not really biting on the slop off the plate much these days.

  128. J. Alfred Prufrock March 30th, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    But not as suscinct and clear as you guys did. I said that the trade was a failure regardless of results for the reasons you all very well explained:

    The only way this trade is a victory for management is that all the following conditions are met, IMO:

    1)Both B´s, Marshall, Noesi and DePaula are a bust, because then the FO could argue that you needed Pineda, if one or two of those prospects fullfills his potential, Pineda was redundant. Even if he becomes the ace. His impact won´t be as important if you have many very good pitchers.

    2) If Montero fails completely. And even then, you could argue that he should have been traded for a bat.

    3) The offense manages to stay productive for the next three years without any noticeable declines. And even then, you could argue that he relied on “luck” rather than a good move.
    Risk Management 101: You leave as little as you can to chance. I rather have a Management that´s good rather than lucky.

    That´s why i think that there is no way that this trade could be viewed as good one, regardless of how the players involved perform.
    //

    LUIS! :D That’s pretty succinct and clear, and dead on, I would say.

  129. luis March 30th, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    JAP,

    You give me too much credit. I am just a fan. But thank you, it means a lot to me that both YF and you speak so highly of me. ;)

  130. Kelvin March 30th, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    Consider that we have contracts coming off the books, these contracts along with our young pitching(cost controlled), will certainly help. I’m positive that at the very least we lock up both grandy/cano then make trades to fix whatever needs they may have. The farm system is in a good shape.

  131. jacksquat March 30th, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    DONNYBROOK March 30th, 2012 at 2:13 pm
    - FARR -
    Point centered on whether fans were happy with a product, based on revenue figures. Lotta people go to see\$$$ Adam Sandler Flicks. That doesn’t mean they are Thrilled when leaving the theatre.

    The teams mostly care about the money. If the revenue is there, they could not care less if the fans are happy or not. Obviously they are happy enough to continue spending their money. This is especially true now with Hal running the Yankees instead of George. George had a passion for winning, whether it was the winning itself or he understood that winning means money is debateable, but Hal seems more like a bean counter.

  132. J. Alfred Prufrock March 30th, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    Howe Farr March 30th, 2012 at 2:08 pm
    Sad how we all remember Mattingly hitting those homeruns to empty seats. Still breaks my heart that he missed out on all of the fun. (Even as a coach)
    ////

    Yeah but everybody knows his back, and the calendar, cheated him. He’s the most beloved, un-ringed Yankee during my lifetime. He’s honored like a conquering hero, and always will be. He deserves it, too.

  133. Howe Farr March 30th, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    Donnybrook:
    “Point centered on whether fans were happy with a product, based on revenue figures”

    From 89 to 92, the yankees averaged 24,041 in attendance
    From 2005 to 2008, the yankees averaged 52,186 in attendance.

    Are you actually saying that the reason the number was so low from 89-92 was because men who were yankees fans stopped having children for that 4 year strech, and thus, the legacy wasn’t past down and that there was a huge yankee fan boom in the mid’s 2000s. And had nothing to do with the product on the field?

  134. stuckey March 30th, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    A “five-game” series isn’t “often”, it’s over in the blink of an eye. Because of AB’s like Martin’s it meant no more than five postseason games.

    Watch the ABs. Jeter didn’t swing at air in his ABs. He nearly hit one out to RF to save Game 5. Qualitative observation is in order: the guy was utterly overmatched.

    ___________________________

    AGAIN, I’m not defending the quality of the ABs.

    I’m correcting a mis-perception.

    He could have walked up to the plate with a spoon in his hands, his pants around his ankles, and a blindfold on and that doesn’t change the fact he has a .384 OBP with runners on and came up with RISP 3 times and once in a game they lost.

    I know from first-hand experience the perception has cultivated that he killed in the Yankees in big RISP spots in that series.

    He did not.

    Can’t we just agree that this, along with the fact he had a terrible series, are both facts and not mutually exclusive?

  135. J. Alfred Prufrock March 30th, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    luis March 30th, 2012 at 2:19 pm
    JAP,

    You give me too much credit. I am just a fan. But thank you, it means a lot to me that both YF and you speak so highly of me.
    ///

    Luis, I read your observations in here. You just don’t go up there hacking – instead you got a nice, effortless swing: makes meaningful contact, and the ball goes a long way ;).

  136. pat March 30th, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    Judges?

    MarcCarig
    Hughes was to start tomorrow. But the travel list shows he’s not going.

    MarcCarig
    Re: Hughes, I don’t know what that means yet

  137. GreenBeret7 March 30th, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    pat,

    At least Randy’s son has a job now and won’t be sponging off of his daddy. Just feeding Livan would put him in the poor house, and that wouldn’t include his $2 a week allowance.

  138. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 30th, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    “And NOW Schilling is piling on.

    PROJECTED AL EAST STANDINGS

    (1) NEW YORK YANKEES
    (2) TAMPA BAY RAYS
    (3) TORONTO BLUE JAYS
    (4) BOSTON R\SOX”

    Seriously? Because those are my projections too.

    Last year Schilling predicted the Sux wouldn’t make the playoffs – and that’s before they totally tanked.

    I predicted the same thing.

    Never thought Schilling and I would be on the same page.

    I don’t think he’s piling on. I think he’s telling it like he sees it.

  139. jacksquat March 30th, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    1)Both B´s, Marshall, Noesi and DePaula are a bust, because then the FO could argue that you needed Pineda, if one or two of those prospects fullfills his potential, Pineda was redundant. Even if he becomes the ace. His impact won´t be as important if you have many very good pitchers.

    2) If Montero fails completely. And even then, you could argue that he should have been traded for a bat.

    3) The offense manages to stay productive for the next three years without any noticeable declines. And even then, you could argue that he relied on “luck” rather than a good move.
    Risk Management 101: You leave as little as you can to chance. I rather have a Management that´s good rather than lucky.

    1 and 3 are conflicting statements. The guys in the minors are not sure things. They are not even Pineda, who has had a full overall successful major league season with a very good walk rate, something that is troubling their two highest pitching prospects at this time. Relying on the minor leaguers to become big leaguers is relying quite a bit on chance as you say in 3.

    And conversely it is not relying on luck to count on future hall of famers or close to it guys like Arod, Tex, Cano etc. to be reasonably productive without huge declines.

  140. stuckey March 30th, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    Point centered on whether fans were happy with a product, based on revenue figures. Lotta people go to see\$$$ Adam Sandler Flicks. That doesn’t mean they are Thrilled when leaving the theatre.

    ___________________

    And Donny, this points to one of the most destructive “fan” behaviors and something I witness firsthand every day in my business dealings – the “listen to what I say, not what I do” fan.

    The loyal consumer who wants you to listen to his complaints while he gives you his dollars.

    The problem is trying to “listen” to fans tell you why they didn’t like the lastest Adam Sandler flick. You’ll get endless different anecdotal answers, often utterly in conflict with one another.

    Dollars is the most powerful tool a fan/consumer has. It sends the strongest message and leaps and bounds above and before all others.

  141. GreenBeret7 March 30th, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    Branyon released and Tatum sent to AAA

  142. luis March 30th, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock March 30th, 2012 at 2:24 pm
    luis March 30th, 2012 at 2:19 pm
    JAP,

    You give me too much credit. I am just a fan. But thank you, it means a lot to me that both YF and you speak so highly of me.
    ///

    Luis, I read your observations in here. You just don’t go up there hacking – instead you got a nice, effortless swing: makes meaningful contact, and the ball goes a long way .
    ====================

    Thanks, not bad for a guy that has been called in more eloquent words a “raging lunatic”
    huh? :)

  143. 4 NYY March 30th, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    I would love to see Tim Norton get healthy and see what he does over a good stretch of time.

  144. 4 NYY March 30th, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    The sux, like Yanks, won’t stand pat if they falter, and will be there at the end. As much as I dislike them, they’re still damn good. They seem to be able to “steal” players from others.

  145. luis March 30th, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    1 and 3 are conflicting statements. The guys in the minors are not sure things. They are not even Pineda, who has had a full overall successful major league season with a very good walk rate, something that is troubling their two highest pitching prospects at this time. Relying on the minor leaguers to become big leaguers is relying quite a bit on chance as you say in 3.

    And conversely it is not relying on luck to count on future hall of famers or close to it guys like Arod, Tex, Cano etc. to be reasonably productive without huge declines.

    =====================

    Fair enough. But some of them are fairly close and you have the trio of Warren, Phelps and Mitchell that can perform right now. And as you say, Pineda is not even a sure thing.

    In regard to the offense, Age is not on the side of many of them and we don´t have one single bat to replace them in case they actually act their age. This gets better, he got so many pitchers, that those prospects that could bring a bat are blocked, so they can´t play with the big club and raise their trade value….All we are going to have is unproven prospects, not prospect that can actually play in the bigs, so their price is a lot higher.

  146. J. Alfred Prufrock March 30th, 2012 at 2:41 pm

    luis,

    Thanks, not bad for a guy that has been called in more eloquent words a “raging lunatic”
    huh?
    ///

    Primo, takes one to know one :D. /scratcheshead ;).

  147. Tar March 30th, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    “Cashman has said he reads blogs at times to see what fans think”

    “No backtracking allowed fan boys”

    Hmmm Maybe we pissed Cash off so bad he morphed into Stoneburner. Pete use to post under different aliases all the time.

    I’m on to you StoneCashburner!!! :wink:

  148. Joe from Long Island March 30th, 2012 at 3:32 pm

    chip – madoff suit was only one of the things weighing on fred’s mind.

    he still has 1.4b debt load on the team (400-some m), sny (another 400-some m) and citifield (800m). he has scheduled payments, on that debt. i saw 25m every 6 months just on citifield. he lost 70m on the team last year, he’s seeing fewer renewals of seats this year, and is projecting another 15% drop in attendance. we can do the math on related dropoffs in concessions with that. add in declining add revenue on sny, and we can see that fred still has major problems with his financial situation. all that madoff settlement did was relieve some uncertainty, which is always a good thing, but it by no means gives him clear sailing.

    i think alderson would love to move santana, but without eating much money. i think that would be hard to do.

    gb – so tatum cleared waivers then?

  149. ron March 30th, 2012 at 3:43 pm

    austinmac March 30th, 2012 at 1:58 pm
    Chip,

    Actually, they must stay below $189M for 2014 and 2015 for full savings according to what I have read. Therefore, including this year, that is four years they will not spend on a multi-year free agent conttact. That will make a difference.

    ———————————————————————————————————————

    That is what i heard,and a lot of people think the yankees will spend like nuts in 2016,with cc,and tex coming off the books after 2016,and arod off after 2017.

  150. Air Max 1 August 20th, 2014 at 8:10 am

    Straps or chains are sometimes too much and are more casual.

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