Ibanez gets another turn in RF
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 31, 2012 
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Just got to Kissimmee after a drive that always takes longer than I remember. Not sure well have any sort of Michael Pineda/Cesar Cabral update until later, but Joe Girardi should address the media in a few minutes.
Eduardo Nunez 3B
Curtis Granderson CF
Robinson Cano 2B
Mark Teixeira DH
Raul Ibanez RF
Francisco Cervelli C
Chris Dickerson LF
Doug Bernier SS
Jose Gil 1B
RHP Adam Warren
My belief is that last night sucked, and it was unfortunate. Pineda carries blame because he hid his physical health problems (and we’re not sure for how long). Maybe this whole shoulder thing could have been prevented, but it’s not a simple black and white problem.
On top of that, we don’t even know what the shoulder thing is yet.
MarcCarig Pineda to dl. Infammation in right shoulder. 49 seconds ago· reply · retweet · favorite
DanBarbarisi Pineda to dl with right shoulder tendonitis
Well that’s not exactly good news as Joba had that. I don’t know that it’s the same thing as Phil had, but thanks Yankees for pushing the kid.
Pineda to DL with inflammation
Chad-
I’d be interested if you can ask Girardi:
1. What steps the Yankees do after signing/trading for a player in the offseason, in regards to what will be expected of them and what Yankee resources are available to them before they show up at ST.
2. When did the Yankees have concerns about Pineda’s lack of velocity, and what did they primarily attribut it to?
Betsy, I don’t think that’s a real big deal. I think it’s fabulous compared to what it could have been. Tendonitis isn’t all that unusual.
If its really just inflammation or tendinitis, it’s good news.
Need “Maxwell’s Silver Hammer” in that lineup. Ibanez in RF issa joke. I do give him credit for riding the bus.
Trish, I didn’t think it would be bad, but it’s still not good news. Poor Cabral…..
Betsy March 31st, 2012 at 11:16 am
MarcCarig Pineda to dl. Infammation in right shoulder. 49 seconds ago· reply · retweet · favorite
DanBarbarisi Pineda to dl with right shoulder tendonitis
Well that’s not exactly good news as Joba had that. I don’t know that it’s the same thing as Phil had, but thanks Yankees for pushing the kid.
———–
Great news
I’d really like to know what Girardi was leaning towards in making the “decision”
“If its really just inflammation or tendinitis, it’s good news.”
Absolutely. It certainly helps to explain the lowered velocity. It also takes ammo away from the small minority who have called him a bust.
Inflammation is not structural damage.
Bets, you mean poor Pineda, yes? Or do we know something about Cabral???
1. So now the Yankees will have two pitchers ready to join the rotation in 1-2 months. That means we get to see about 1000 stories about how nova, Hughes and Garcia are pitching to keep their spot.
2. As I posted earlier, I wouldn’t be shocked if Pineda doesn’t get his velocity back until next season. Seems to be an epidemic with starters over past few seasons.
“And what do you do with a guy who’s velocity is down in ST? Send him to the minors as a rule? What if his breaking pitches are still good enough? Wasn’t Cole Hamels velocity down in 2009 – but he pitched an entire season?”
I’m not sure about Hamels, But with Pineda we are not talking about a 1 or 2 mph drop. With Pineda I think you find out what the heck is going on. You don’t take his word for it and you don’t add pressure on trying to win a spot.
I’ve posted enough about it, let’s see what answers we have coming on down the road. I sure hope it’s positive for Michael and the Yankees.
Young player comes into camp looks overweight, velocity down, trip to the DL huge dissapointment. Who says history doesn’t repeat?
It’s amazing if the MRI is done with both the Radiologist and Orthopedic surgeon already have interpreted it and released the information to the press.
You and I would have to wait until our insurance companies approved the study and then wait further for the Doctor to get back to us with the results.
Amazing that two pitchers came up injured last night. Cashman and Girardi are the cause of one and the other, just happened.
It’s finally out in the open. Cashman and Girardi injected Pineda with tendonitis bacteria. At least Girardi was able to get rid of Montero because he hated catchers that could hit.
Does anyone think, based on performance, Girardi would’ve had the gut to send Pineda down to the minors to work out his issues?
Well that was quick. That is about the best we could have hoped for.
Get well soon Michael and come back and be the beast we know you have in you.
Pville March 31st, 2012 at 11:22 am
Young player comes into camp looks overweight, velocity down, trip to the DL huge dissapointment. Who says history doesn’t repeat?
———-
Everyone says history repeats.
Are Girardi’s press conferences televised?
I see some new trolls are showing up, imparting their “wisDUMB”
RadioKev March 31st, 2012 at 11:24 am
Pville March 31st, 2012 at 11:22 am
Young player comes into camp looks overweight, velocity down, trip to the DL huge dissapointment. Who says history doesn’t repeat?
———-
Everyone says history repeats.
————————————————————————————————————————-
I suppose that means this troll will return.
“Does anyone think, based on performance, Girardi would’ve had the gut to send Pineda down to the minors to work out his issues?”
No idea.
BTW
Pineda on the DL does not count towards minor league time. He would have to stay in the minors for an additional 20 days after he comes off the DL.
But yeah, all things considered, this is very good news for Pineda. Shut him down for a couple of weeks and aim for a mid season return, in my opinion. There’s really no rush.
That news sucks for Cabral. Oh well, Rapada it is.
Do the Yankees take Phelps/Warren/Mitchell as a long man? Do we go with Kontos or Whelan?
Technically speaking, Michael Pineda has inflammation of the shoulder tendon.
When you don’t exercise for a long period of time and overtrain when you first return to the gym, you can get sore muscles and tendons.
Rest and recovery should do it.
There is no structural damage, no cause for alarm. No bust of a trade. No catastrophe.
Villa Nova-Ya March 31st, 2012 at 8:02 am
RadioKev -
But Montero had jet lag. We can’t use the Japan series against him.
///
He had the flu, and then flew off to Japan. Might be a little tired. Kind of petty of you, but not the first time, is it?
Oh, lest I forget to add this:
.
Pineda did have a huge innings increase from 47.1 in 2009 to 139.1 in 2010,an increase of 92 innings,then he pitched 171 innings in 2011 for a high.
It is the increase from 09-10,then a high for him in 2011.
Trish, per the tweets (I thought I’d included it in my post), Cabral has a “significant injury”
Nice zinger GB7
This won’t make you feel any better, but perhaps with rest, cortisone, and anti-inflammatories, Pineda will recover more quickly than Joba.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....8;c_id=mlb
Why was that trollish?
When you don’t exercise for a long period of time and overtrain when you first return to the gym, you can get sore muscles and tendons.
———
Bret, that’s a very good point. The same could be said last year of Hughes.
It’s finally out in the open. Cashman and Girardi injected Pineda with tendonitis bacteria. At least Girardi was able to get rid of Montero because he hated catchers that could hit.
———————————-
Yeah, I liked that one. Girardi hates catchers that can hit.
That’s so far out there, that there is no return postage.
Or just file it under blither.
ron March 31st, 2012 at 11:27 am
Pineda did have a huge innings increase from 47.1 in 2009 to 139.1 in 2010,an increase of 92 innings,then he pitched 171 innings in 2011 for a high.
It is the increase from 09-10,then a high for him in 2011.
————————————————————————————————————————-
Now it’s a case of delayed tendonitis?
luis March 31st, 2012 at 11:20 am
Good morning to everyone,
Randy,
Your first post is spot on. Kudos. You did take a lot of sh*t for it.
Everyone else,
Let’s hope that there is nothing serious on Pineda’s shoulder. Then he goes to EST for a couple of months, then maybe 4-5 starts in the minors and he will be ready for the second half of the season. Later
ron March 31st, 2012 at 11:27 am
Pineda did have a huge innings increase from 47.1 in 2009 to 139.1 in 2010,an increase of 92 innings,then he pitched 171 innings in 2011 for a high.
It is the increase from 09-10,then a high for him in 2011.
************
So you’re saying Pineda went from 139.1 in 2010 to 171 in 2011 with no problems.
WHAT IS THE NEWS FOR CABRAL?
Cabral has the HMO. He’s still at the clinic
geeze this is like a runaway train!
Nobody is blaming the Yankees for Pineda having so many innings on his arm. At least I’m not.
I said I thought his going to AAA was a good idea from the start because of all the innings he had worked.
So shoot me!
“Does anyone think, based on performance, Girardi would’ve had the gut to send Pineda down to the minors to work out his issues?”
Girardi does what Cashman tells him to. His public quotes are all in unison with what the organization feels as well – which is why blaming him for making yesterday’s start “big” is laughable considering he doesn’t even get to decide the fate of these guys on his own. It was a big start for everyone in the org watching him, not just Joe.
“Killer’s” reading this stuff on the screen and rolling around laughing. Says he has friends down at the dog pound that know more about baseball than some of the people on here.
I wouldn’t have had any problem with a decision to send Pineda to AAA. That’s why I asked the question about Girardi
“So you’re saying Pineda went from 139.1 in 2010 to 171 in 2011 with no problems.”
Bret, problems can be cumulative. The fact that he tapered off at all last season could be due to tired arm. Not unusual.
He passed an MRI when he came to the Yanks. Maybe he put extra pressure on himself in ST. Who knows. What we do know is that he has tendinitis.
No need to get all defensive when people are just offering information!
I honestly don’t care if Pineda comes back this yr or not (although I’m sure he will). What’s important is that he still has long term value to the team.
People are offering information alright, selective information.
Significant injury for Cabral. That’s all they’re saying right now.
“I honestly don’t care if Pineda comes back this yr or not (although I’m sure he will). What’s important is that he still has long term value to the team.”
Agree. Ironically, the competition for the rotation is now officially over.
I give it April and May. Two months should do it for Pineda. He should be returning to the rotation right around the same time as Pettitte.
It will at least buy time to see if a trade with benefits for NYYs shake out. with luck, Pineda and Pettitte return about the same time and something to strengthen the team happens. Both being effective by the first part of June will allow Garcia to be moved. If they aren’t ready, one of The Scranton 3 will move up.
“Significant injury for Cabral. That’s all they’re saying right now.”
Oh no. Geezus.
****************
“People are offering information alright, selective information.”
Or you’re reading it that way maybe?
GreenBeret7 March 31st, 2012 at 11:31 am
ron March 31st, 2012 at 11:27 am
Pineda did have a huge innings increase from 47.1 in 2009 to 139.1 in 2010,an increase of 92 innings,then he pitched 171 innings in 2011 for a high.
It is the increase from 09-10,then a high for him in 2011.
————————————————————————————————————————-
Now it’s a case of delayed tendonitis?
———————————————————————————————————————
Don’t know.I wasn’t even thinking that.
What i was referring to was your post about pineda’s normal innings jump,from 2010-2011 but not mentioning his 92 innings increase from 09-10,then his alltime high of 171 in 2011.
I just never like to see a pitcher jump over 40 innings,in any year.
He is 23 years old,and starting the year on the dl.
” You did take a lot of sh*t for it.”
luis-
do ya think?
but in other people’s defense i don’t take being poked well. i tend to hit back harder than i need to.
so things can deteriorate pretty quickly into people who just don’t like each other losing the main point of the original argument.
i do feel there is a core of people who are learning to argue in a way that we actually get some baseball insights and get it right sometimes.
i would not like people ,who it appears i don’t like ,to disappear.. i’m a big believer in debating ideas.i like to get opposing opinions.
i was really happy to see CB jump in last night. his participation raises the level of the blog considerably. he is taking a somewhat different position than i am on the cause of pineda’s problems
,but that’s great.
we can have a good discussion and debate about what’s going on. we went through this with wang when he had his spring training problems a few years ago. i think we ended up ahead of the yankees in knowing something was wrong with wang.
so in that spirit , i say this is going to be an interesting ride with pineda.
The Yankees had 2 decisions to make the spring and both of them were made for them last night. Funny how that stuff happens. Sucks for Cabral, but if he needs TJ it’s not the worst news in the world.
Or Ron just left out an entire year that happens to be the most recent year, maybe.
Got to go. Rest, treatment, working on proper mechanics and all his pitches in some warm climate, and he’ll be back as good as new. Good news.
Hopefully Cabral gets some good news too.
Until later.
Inflammation only is good news…take the same course as they did with Hughes….shut him down….then rebuild with a long toss program…..he will gain service time on the DL though so Im wondering if the Yanks will figure out a way to work this so they’ll still get that extra year of control…..I would hope so.
I guess we can all thank Carlos Ruiz for knocking him out before the damage worsened.
And I wish Cone was part of the coaching staff.
I always find it amusing that one of the most uniformed Lohud regulars consistently tries to lecture those who are informed.
You’d think he would show a bit of humility after being schooled last night but he still blathers on.
So let’s switch to some baseball talk. Who do you guys want to see as the long man now? I guess the options are Phelps, Mitchell and Warren.
I’d pick Mitchell because I think the other guys have more upside as starters. Although being the long man this yr doesn’t mean they can’t start in the future.
“What i was referring to was your post about pineda’s normal innings jump,from 2010-2011 but not mentioning his 92 innings increase from 09-10,then his alltime high of 171 in 2011.
I just never like to see a pitcher jump over 40 innings,in any year.
He is 23 years old,and starting the year on the dl.”
ron, and that is why I originally wanted him to start the season in AAA. Just to give his arm a rest. We’ve seen the results of pitchers being rushed up, and they’re not pretty. This stuff is chartable. Ogando went from a fireballer to a relatively ineffective pitcher last season, and it’s not because he forgot how to pitch. The same thing happened to him, with the huge increase in innings.
Bryan Hoch ? @BryanHoch
Yankees lineup at HOU: Nunez 3B, Granderson CF, Cano 2B, Teixeira DH, Ibanez RF, Cervelli C, Dickerson LF, Bernier SS, Gil 1B; SP: Warren
it’s entirely possible that there’s no major problem wrong with pineda’s arm.
he might even be ok the next time he pitches.
if it’s no big deal and he’s fine , i am GLAD he got hammered and hurt so that they now do the right thing.
if he’s really hurt that’s going to really suck for every yankee fan and for pineda.
the right thing is going to AAA and getting healthy and strong and acclimated to the yankee system.
if he does that, we should be seeing him around late may or early june.
Delayed shoulder tendonitis is the worst kind, surely the kiss of death.
Bret The Hitman March 31st, 2012 at 11:41 am
Or Ron just left out an entire year that happens to be the most recent year, maybe.
————
????????
It’s situations like this that can happen at a moment’s notice is the reason why the team needed to keep Garcia until they were forced to make a move.
That’s why you don’t make those decisions till you have to. You never know why can happen
PA tweets that it’s 10 AM in a AAA game and david Ortiz is busting it to first.
Not bsure if he meant busting it to be first in the chow line or busted the ass out of his pants running to first.
Betsy
How did the Yankees push Pineda?
“PA tweets that it’s 10 AM in a AAA game and david Ortiz is busting it to first.
Not bsure if he meant busting it to be first in the chow line or busted the ass out of his pants running to first.”
I’d take Mitchell as a long man because it sounds like he’s the most effective young starter we have..
Trisha,
Everything still lollipops and unicorns in Yankee land?
“Trish, per the tweets (I thought I’d included it in my post), Cabral has a “significant injury””
Bets, thanks. Just saw this.
I’d pick Mitchell because I think the other guys have more upside as starters. Although being the long man this yr doesn’t mean they can’t start in the future.
———————————————
The Yankees have to start showcasing the kids in the Majors this year. That increases their value dramatically. In that sense the Pineda incident creates a situation in a good way.
If Pineda was starting in AAA, how was he getting any rest. Innings, for the most part are innings.
Triple, sure thing. Pineda got some pretty good news. So now you have to re-evaluate all of your jabber on how horrible a trade this was and how you knew it was a bust.
Or maybe you won’t.
I didn’t leave anything out.
I just said that pineda had an increase of 92 innings,then a high of 171 innings in 2011.
I don’t agree with increasing a pitchers innings that much.
It has nothing too do with his recent injury,or i will say,i am not saying that it does.
When a pitcher increases his innings by 92,then pitches his alltime high for innings,in back to back years,nothing would suprise me.
There are very smart doctors that say anything over a 40 innings increase in innings from the previous year is a bad thing.
“ron, and that is why I originally wanted him to start the season in AAA. Just to give his arm a rest”
to her credit,trisha had it right in february:
trisha – true pinstriped blue February 16th, 2012 at 8:59 am
“the yankees are a major step up in difficulty. pineda should be given room to grow at his own pace and not be rushed. if he gets it right away fine, but if he doesn’t he should be sent to scranton to develop these pitches at a more sane pace.”
I suggested AAA in order to give his arm a rest. I also suggested that it might make for some ballistic Yankee fans who are demanding he be the immediate second coming in order to make them believe they got their money’s worth in the Montero trade.
Yankees believed they needed a strong rotation and they looked to the future as well as to the present. Pineda wasn’t a one-year rental. People need to chill and let him develop into the pitcher he is going to be. Nobody declared him to be ready-made at the age of 23 except those who decided he has to be to justify the trade. Hell the Boss was on the verge of trading away Andy Pettitte when Andy was struggling at an early age. Let it be!
————————————————–
“Trisha,
Everything still lollipops and unicorns in Yankee land?”
And it looks like I gave wise counsel (as did BD, GB, and others) when we suggested that people not take the George Washington Bridge in terms of predicting Pineda’s demise but rather wait until the results come out. That’s always good advice.
Are you disappointed it wasn’t something worse or were you hoping that it was nothing at all so you could continue with your “trade is a bust” rant?
I had a feeling it was going to be something like inflammation because of Pineda’s comments about ‘normal’ pain. That’s what Hughes’ reported too. It’s painful, but ut wouldn’t be alarming to an athlete.
I’m not the biggest fan of sticking another kid in the long man role simply due to the fact that he’s not going to get a lot of work to build up his innings (like Noesi last season).
Pertaining to Mitchell, it could be an even worse idea to make him a long man because he’s an extreme sinker baller and those guys need to get consistent work to keep the sinker working.
randy – wow. Thank you.
Pineda on the shelf for a while and the Yankees lose the opportunity right now to gain an extra year of service time and avoid Super 2 status.
Terrible.
Other than Phelps, do Warren or Mitchell need to build up innings?
From RAB, damn they’re good.
An edited interview with Eppler
http://management.fortune.cnn......es-roster/
What’s one of the most important lessons you’ve learned about managing talent in baseball?
As soon as the season starts, somebody will play really well and somebody will start the season underperforming. [General Manager] Brian Cashman has taught me so much about not reacting too soon. I’ve learned that time and patience are extremely powerful weapons when used right.
Our season is so long — it’s a six-month season, but you have to look at it in two-month increments. There are three mini marathons to make this one large marathon.
Somebody will rush to say, “Oh, this guy’s had it,” or “Oh, he’s going to be MVP,” but the fact is that you are dealing with the human element and there is this general ebb and flow. I look to Brian and I almost marvel at how he balances when it’s the right time to make a change and when it’s the right time to let a player sort himself out.
Mitchell for long man
blake March 31st, 2012 at 11:57 am
Mitchell for long man
———
Got the buttons?
If this becomes a lost year for Pineda like it was with Hughes the Yankees may have ended up trading 6 years of Montero for 4 years of Pineda.
And now in addition to the elbow concerns from a couple years ago now we have to worry about shoulder issues in the future for Pineda.
Trisha,
Yea we got great news. The future number 2 starter we traded for lost 4MPH on his fastball, has pain in his shoulder and is going on the DL. Sounds like great news to me. But no matter what happens you will never call the trade a bust. You will just pay lip service to understanding why they made the trade at the time and say sometimes things just don’t work out.
LGY March 31st, 2012 at 12:00 pm
If this becomes a lost year for Pineda like it was with Hughes the Yankees may have ended up trading 6 years of Montero for 4 years of Pineda.
And now in addition to the elbow concerns from a couple years ago now we have to worry about shoulder issues in the future for Pineda.
————
Don’t worry, the world ends December 21st this year.
“randy – wow. Thank you.”
trisha-
i’d really like to see some really good debate on how to proceed with pineda. this is an all hands on deck situation. it’ll be interesting to see what jerkface, lgy,CB, and others on the blog from all over the spectrum have to say.
LGY,
How does the rule work exactly? I know originally they had to send him down for like 20 days or something to get the extra year…..so if he’s on the DL and then pitches for 20 days in the minors afterward before comic back up do they still get it?
Everything still lollipops and unicorns in Yankee land?”
————————————————————————————————————————-
If those silly unicorns had gotten on the Ark and hadn’t been out playing games and splashing about, tis the rain started fallin’, they’be be here today. and that’s why you never see a unicorn, to this very day. you see green alligator and long necked geese and humpty back camels and chimpanzees and cats and rats and elephants.
I blame it on Girardi and Cashman.
This is the best news we could of hoped for. The trade is not to be evaluated now. I know people will though. No worries. They can carry on with that nonsense.
“Pineda on the shelf for a while and the Yankees lose the opportunity right now to gain an extra year of service time and avoid Super 2 status.
Terrible.”
lgy-
are you saying that if he’s injured he can’t be sent to AAA?
that would be a yankee blunder that would shock even me.
LMAO. Hughes was named the #3 starter based on a dozen ST innings over Nova and Garcia.
It’s a bad situation because we don’t know the severity of the inflammation and the duration of it. The other problem is that he will need to be on a permanent monitored conditioning program. Anyone with tendonitis knows it’s an issue mentally as well as physically. He probably freaked out knowing he was going to NY and ate a lot of food to cover for the stress. It’s obvious. We is in for a world of pain as Jesus kicks butt in quiet Seattle. It’s always easier to go from the NYY to the Seattles of the world than vice versa. Oh the pain, it will come Ray, it will come!
The Granderson trade was the worst thing ever too. We lost the all mighty Austin Jackson.
New thread
“But no matter what happens you will never call the trade a bust. You will just pay lip service to understanding why they made the trade at the time and say sometimes things just don’t work out.”
First of all, I think Pineda will be just fine. The guy has the goods, there is no question. We traded for a beast and we got a beast. So the beast is just a little dinged up right now. It doesn’t mean that he isn’t still a beast.
Let me say this. I am not paying lipservice. Because you are aghast at the trade doesn’t mean that everyone else is.
I apologize for understanding why the trade was made and all of the reasons behind it. And I find them extremely pragmatic and credible reasons. Montero was not in the Yankees plans. If it wasn’t Pineda, it would have been another trade. If Lee went through, he would have been gone. Yankees don’t tie up their DH position long-term (for obvious reasons) and they weren’t impressed with his catching.
I didn’t like losing Montero but I certainly understood why it happened.
What difference does it make whether hughes is 3rd or 5th, or for that matter, garcia or Nova. They’re all pitching in the first 5 days. Find something else to whine about.
“I blame it on Girardi and Cashman.”
gb7-
yes there are few wingnuts coming out of the woodwork , but what would you do right now with pineda.
forget how he’s gotten to this point in time.
you’re in charge, what do you do with him?
randy l. March 31st, 2012 at 12:11 pm
“I blame it on Girardi and Cashman.”
gb7-
yes there are few wingnuts coming out of the woodwork , but what would you do right now with pineda.
forget how he’s gotten to this point in time.
you’re in charge, what do you do with him?
————————————————————————————————————————-
I suppose the easiest answer is to trade him back to Seattle for Montero. At least that would bring this board back to it’s normal lunacy, instead of this ramped up brand of lunacy.
I’d send him to extended spring training and either bring in Justin Pope fro staten Island to watch his health, training and mechics, or send Pope to AAA and bring Scott Aldred in from Scranton to fix any mechanical issues he might have. Just keep those two bums, Conners and Contreras away from him.
I always find it amusing that one of the most uniformed Lohud regulars consistently tries to lecture those who are informed.
========================================
You can say his name, it’s GB, the most uniformed…