Spring training Game 29: Yankees at Astros
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 31, 2012 
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YANKEES (14-11-3)
Eduardo Nunez 3B
Curtis Granderson CF
Robinson Cano 2B
Mark Teixeira DH
Raul Ibanez RF
Francisco Cervelli C
Chris Dickerson LF
Doug Bernier SS
Jose Gil 1B
RHP Adam Warren (0-0, 1.93)
Warren’s minor league numbers
ASTROS (14-14)
Brian Bogusevic CF
Jose Altuve 2B
J.D. Martinez DH
Carlos Lee 1B
Travis Buck RF
Chris Johnson 3B
Chris Snyder C
Justin Ruggiano LF
Marwin Gonzalez SS
RHP Jordan Lyles (0-2, 6.32)
Lyles minor league numbers
TIME: 1:05 p.m.
WEATHER: A little bit cloudy, but there’s little indication that the Yankees are going to have a hard time playing the game. Wind blowing out to center.
UMPIRES: HP Chris Segal, 1B Eric Loveless, 2B Jeff Gosney
ASTROS PEN: Houston is scheduled to use RHP David Carpenter, LHP Wesley Wright and RHP Brandon Lyon.
CHATTING WITH WARREN: With Adam Warren getting the story today, feel free to head over to milb.com for a prospect Q&A with Warren. He talked about what he’s working on this spring, what it’s like to be in such a pitching-rich organization and how much he’s learned from all the big names in Yankees camp.
FLY BY NIGHT: After today’s game, the Yankees will bus back to Tampa, then those who are making this weekend’s trip to play the Marlins will catch a flight to Miami. It’s going to be a few days of tough travel here at the end of spring training.
UPDATE, 1:29 p.m.: Cesar Cabral has a stress fracture in his olecranon, which is basically the tip of his elbow. He’s been placed in a splint with not immediate treatment plan in place. The guy pitched a scoreless inning last night with a broken elbow. Let that settle in for a second.
UPDATE, 1:45 p.m.: The Astros just threw up four runs in the second inning to take a 4-2 lead. The big blow was a three-run homer by Justin Ruggiano.
UPDATE, 2:03 p.m.: Yankees have tied the game at 4 after an RBI single by Ibanez and a sac fly by Cervelli. Ibanez still looks much better than he did earlier this spring. Seems to have gotten those timing issues sorted out.
UPDATE, 2:25 p.m.: Double for Granderson and two-run homer by Cano have put the Yankees in front 6-5 in the fifth inning.
UPDATE, 2:28 p.m.: Add a double for Teixeira and a two-run homer for Ibanez. It’s now 8-5 Yankees.
UPDATE, 2:47 p.m.: Not the sharpest outing for Warren who just gave up a solo homer to Carlos Lee and has allowed six runs through five innings. Considered David Phelps and D.J. Mitchell have spots on the 40-man and Warren does not, Warren might have been the long-shot of those three anyway.
UPDATE, 2:49 p.m.: Dante Bichette just homered on his first pitch of the game. Huge high five from Girardi as soon as Bichette got back to the dugout. Pretty cool moment.
UPDATE, 3:25 p.m.: Another first-pitch home run for Bichette. Seriously.
How did the Yankees get approved by MLB to play a game without Marty Foster umpiring?
If there’s one positive out of the Pineda situation, it’s that we potentially get see one of Phelps, Mitchell or Warren break with the team. I’d like to see Phelps, but they may want to keep him stretched out and keep Mitchell up here instead.
Rich in NJ March 31st, 2012 at 1:08 pm
Who cares? You do everything that the rules permit to advance your interests. You don’t lost anything by availing yourself of the process.
—————
That’s pretty ethically bleak.
“That’s pretty ethically bleak.”
If it’s within the rules, it’s ethically sound.
The one thing that makes me leery about letting Pineda take his time in the minors is that this just increases the chances that the Yankees convert him to a reliever and get him back on the 25 man that way.
———————————————————————-
Lets hope not but I don’t think it will happen for the same reason the Yanks were desperate for him to win that spot.
It doesn’t look good the see the guy you traded away a generational bat for, not be able to crack the rotation. It also doesn’t look good to see the guy in a middle relief role.
There was some discussion earlier I believe that the Yankees rather than DL’ing Pineda should have just sent him to AAA to delay his service time.
Once Pineda had discomfort in his arm that strategy become impossible because it would no longer have been within the rules.
And it would have been easy to win a grievance.
As such the Yanks only option is to DL Pineda. Then have him complete his allotted 30 day rehab in the minors/EST and then officially option him to the minors for whatever the required period of time needed to delay his service time.
That’s the only viable strategy that can’t be disputed on grievance right now.
And that’s the plan of action they should take. Not only does it delay his clock but you can make sure he comes back as ready as possible for the microscope he’ll be under in NY.
If he’s going to go to the minors for this injury they should use the opportunity to also facilitate his development of that change up. Once he’s down -keep him there to make sure things are as far forward – both with his health and his stuff as possible. That will prevent him from getting jerked around later.
When he comes up again – every pitch will be put under a microscope for velocity and effectiveness.
he one thing I absolutely and unequivocally do not buy is that the Yanks would attempt to convert Pineda to a reliever. His stuff is too important to the rotation, not to mention the fact that next year it’s possible that the rotation consists of CC, Hughes, and Nova!
I any event, so sure a I of that, that I will send every person on this forum a Ritter Sports Bar should that happen!
You read it here first. (well actually second. it was also on the previous thread)
One more point about “ethics.”
I have never read the rules. I was responding to RadioKev’s assertion that a grievance would risk alienating the MLBPA.
“If it’s within the rules, it’s ethically sound.”
This isn’t true either. That’s equating rules and ethics. I don’t want to get into some long drawn out conversation about this – but those two things aren’t necessarily the same. In fact they are often very, very different e.g. Jim Crow laws.
Zoilo Alomonte has hit a 2 run homer for Trenton.
Ravel Santana will play 7 innings for Charleston.
Jim Crow laws? Really?
Yanks have a 2-0 lead on Houston in the top of the 2nd inning.
# mick March 31st, 2012 at 1:24 pm
rm March 31st, 2012 at 12:55 pm
Why is everybody so upset. This is what “the pitching situation will work itself out” means
================
Exactly. Those who poo-pooed this theory were wrong again.
Things have a way of working themselves out.
Girardi knew if he left Pineda in long enough he would hurt himself.
“You can never have enough pitching”
Is Anndy a sure thing?
He’s one hammy away from being out for the season.
Yeah, I don’t want to get into an ethics argument either I guess, I’ll just stand by my comment.
Can the yankees assign him to the minors,after the 15 day dl,or do they have to rehab him after his 15 day dl first,and when does his 15 day dl start?
Now,or when the season starts?
Either the Yankees have a reasonable belief based on the rules that they can toll Pineda’s service time clock or they don’t.
All the parties involved are represented by competent counsel. There is due process available to all.
Comparing this to the power asymmetry that characterized Jim Crow is absurd.
Alienating the Players Association isn’t a concern.
The issue is that they would lose the grievance hands down. Once Pineda complained of discomfort in his shoulder that was that. He has to go on the DL rather than just get optioned to AAA.
And the issue of alienation that does need to be considered is whether or not you want to use an injury to delay the service time of a young player who you’ve committed a big part of your future to.
This isn’t a situation where you want to just shove this down Pineda’s throat. And they don’t need to. If he’s going down – keep him there for a while. Get everything straightened out as much as possible – both in terms of physical health and skills.
There are clearly things he needs to work on in his game. It’s more than reasonable to option him to AAA after his rehab. That’s not something unreasonable at all.
# Giuseppe Franco March 31st, 2012 at 11:44 am
I always find it amusing that one of the most uniformed Lohud regulars consistently tries to lecture those who are informed.
You’d think he would show a bit of humility after being schooled last night but he still blathers on.
=========================================================
The most uniformed? I guess you meant GB.
Either the Yankees have a reasonable belief based on the rules that they can toll Pineda’s service time clock or they don’t.
————
They don’t, that’s why they’re not doing it.
Josh Hamilton is day to day with a groin injury. Cashman and Girardi sure get around, hurting these players.
Boston pitcher, Chris Carpenter dropped a bomb on Boston by telling them and media he was healthy when he reported to Boston as compensation. all but ends Boston’s chances of getting a different player. How long before they move him out of town?
And that’s why they’re not “stupid,” as someone said, for not trying to send him to the minors instead of the DL.
There are plenty of unethical things that can be done within the law.
“Jim Crow laws? Really?”
Sure. It’s an absolutely valid example of a situation where rules do not equate with ethics. I wasn’t referring in any way to the Pineda situation. Just the general contention that if something is within the rules it equates to ethical actions. That’s not true.
I picked Jim Crow as it was a clear example that popped to mind. But one could literally come up with hundreds of them.
Most issues likely fall into a grey area which is what so much of politics, law and regulation are about.
But on the general contention that if its within the rules it equates to ethics – not that’s not necessarily the case.
“They don’t, that’s why they’re not doing it.”
What else aren’t they doing?
Rich in NJ March 31st, 2012 at 1:31 pm
“They don’t, that’s why they’re not doing it.”
What else aren’t they doing?
———–
What else could we be wasting time talking about?
“And that’s why they’re not “stupid,” as someone said, for not trying to send him to the minors instead of the DL.”
This is the point. The initial conversation was about the yankees making some kind of mistake in putting Pineda now on the DL rather than just sending him to the DL.
That wasn’t a mistake. Once he complained of pain – they didn’t have any other option.
Good afternoon everyone. It’s fortunate that Pineda hasn’t had a serious injury. Fingers crossed things are handled well now and that he comes back when he’s ready both physically and in terms of his arsenal.
Teixeira with another hit. RBI ground single up the middle.
“Sure. It’s an absolutely valid example of a situation where rules do not equate with ethics. I wasn’t referring in any way to the Pineda situation. Just the general contention that if something is within the rules it equates to ethical actions. That’s not true.”
No, Jim Crow was an attempt to circumvent existing laws to discriminate against people who may not have had the resources to obtain a remedy.
The arbitration rules are made by sophisticated people who have every chance to exploit them when they believe there is a reasonable basis to do.
This is beyond goofy.
From the Adam Warren Q&A:
“MiLB.com: Assuming you start the season at Triple-A, what’s the pulse around camp as far as the setup this season, being on the road all year? Is that something you guys have thought about?
Warren: We’ve talked about it a lot (laughs) — a lot of jokes about how bad we think it may be and that sort of thing. The approach is, yeah, it’s not going to be a great year, not going to be awesome, not like it was Scranton with a nice locker room. I know everyone is trying to do their best to accommodate us, and hopefully we’ll have a nice stadium next year. It’s going to be miserable, but you’ll make yourself miserable — this is what we’re dealt and we’ll make the best of it.”
He talked about what he’s working on this spring, what it’s like to be in such a pitching-rich organization and how much he’s learned from all the big names in Yankees camp.
///
Pitching rich??
Surely you jest, Chad. Or you don’t read the Lohud commentary.
Speaking of rich kids, Bummer we can’t watch Warren today.
I hope Ravel stops by SI for a cup of coffee this year, but if he doesn’t, that’s actually good news on him.
Is this game on MLB.tv it says that it is but its not showing up for me??
Warren’s favorite pitcher was Mussina.
Gameday really sucks.
The Yanks aren’t pitching rich?
btw, Not only did the victims of Jim Crow laws lack resources, the system was stacked against them until the USSC intervened almost 100 years after they were first enacted. Not even apples and oranges. Apples and celery.
The yankees should use this time to have pineda throw tons of changeups in the minors,when he is rehabbing,and officially on a minor league roster.
Like randy i said,you have to throw lots,and lots of them,not a few here,and there.
I think pineda is going to be a great pitcher.
I just hope he is tough mentally.
I also hope hughes does not ditch his changeup,and fall in love with his other pitches all over again.
If he can advance his changeup enough,i think hughes is going to blow us away.
For hughes to go out there,and survive the way he did,with nothing,tells me when his fb,and curve are back,his cutter,a little,and an added changeup,he will be nasty.
Warren’s getting roughed up. 5 hits in 1.1 innings and 2 strikeouts. 3 run homer followed by a triple.
4-2 astros after 2 innings
CB,
I hope they handle this with Pineda exactly how you laid out…..it would allow him to slowly regain the velocity and it would allow the Yanks to save a year of control….they really don’t need to expose this kid to NY until he is 100% physically
Non displaced or displaced stress fracture in his olecranon?
The Yanks have excess pitching at the moment.
USE that advantage!
Let Pineda recover, master the change, and get his arm speed back in low pressure situations.
Francesca can chirp all he wants. The Yankees have a playoff caliber team with or without Pineda.
If Pineda comes up later on and is the pitcher he can be when 100%, they have a scary team.
Congratulations to Rapada…
Pineda will get his cortisone / steroid shot in the shoulder to knock down the inflamation, he’ll start a long toss program under the hot Floridian sun and will cover my over 9 wins bet that I in the early morning hours after reading how he was done, Cashman and Giradi are idiots and how smart so many here really are…….Sorry that so many are disappointed with the news out of Tampa……
“”Francesca can chirp all he wants. The Yankees have a playoff caliber team with or without Pineda.
He said they don’t? They can win the WS without Pineda.
Granderson is 2-2 (2 singles, run scored)
Cano is 1-2 with 2runs scored
Teixeira is 1-1, walk and RBI
Ibanez is 1-2 with RBI groundout, RBI single
cervelli is 0-1 with a sac fly
Dickerson 0-2
middle of 3rd inning, 4-4
Way too soon to be saying Montero OR Pineda will be great. Call them possibly be very good.
FLY BY NIGHT: After today’s game, the Yankees will bus back to Tampa, then those who are making this weekend’s trip to play the Marlins will catch a flight to Miami. It’s going to be a few days of tough travel here at the end of spring training.
—
A flight, yeah that’s tough…
I’m guessing since it’s a flight, now Jeter will play a couple road games.
“Way too soon to be saying Montero OR Pineda will be great.”
Of course, but it’s really about more than those two players.
Rich in NJ……..I asked someone this morning about your injury zone theory and was told that the concept is more than valid….He did say once a pitcher hits 25 clubs begin to breath much easier
How could they not know he had tendinitis?
Pat
Interesting, Pat. Let’s hope they dodged a bullet and continue to do so.
In the bottom of the 3rd, Warren gets 2 quick outs and then 3 straight hard hit singles and a run. Gets third out on his 3rd strikeout
end of 3 innings, 5-4 Houston
jacksquat March 31st, 2012 at 2:03 pm
FLY BY NIGHT: After today’s game, the Yankees will bus back to Tampa, then those who are making this weekend’s trip to play the Marlins will catch a flight to Miami. It’s going to be a few days of tough travel here at the end of spring training.
—
A flight, yeah that’s tough…
I’m guessing since it’s a flight, now Jeter will play a couple road games.
—————–
I believe the regular lineup is playing in both Marlin games. Then they play the mets on the road and only a couple starters will be playing there. Then they play the mets again at home and that should be the full lineup again. Then day off and then they get the Rays on Friday.
starting bottom of the 4th inning, 5-4 Houston
end of the 4th, Warren gave up a hit (#9) but got the DP. 5-4 Houston
I agree with CB (minus all the hand-wringing
).
DL until he’s cleared to start throwing, then AAA to rebuild his arm strength.
His agent won’t have much if a gripe because Pineda is unable to contribute to the active roster.
Jerkface and I were somewhat concerned about his velocity the whole spring. I was thinking that it mirrored Hughes situation last year, with the obvious difference in velocity between the two. I believe both guys had cumulative conditions, that were not a result if one instance or another.
But we’ve seen Hughes bounce back, as far back as last season. So, I think Pineda will be back soon. I just hope that he (and the fans) doesn’t get frustrated with the process.
The most unfortunate thing is that the flogging will continue for much longer.
Thinking about it, Hughes can (and maybe should) be a far more important story than Pineda this season. If, after all they have invested for so many years, he finally becomes the consistent #2-#3 they had hoped, justifying an investment in him going forward, that might be as important as anything short of a WS, which is in no small part about luck anyway.
“Jerkface and I were somewhat concerned about his velocity the whole spring. I was thinking that it mirrored Hughes situation last year, with the obvious difference in velocity between the two”
I think a lot of people were concerned, but Girardi specifically pushed back on any comparison between the two, and even dismissed these comparisons as purely being because of Hughes. He really needs to learn to say less when he doesn’t know what’s wrong.
Top of the 5th, Granderson drills a double of dead center wall, Cano hammers one out of the park to right center, 2 run shot. Teixeira doubles to left (batting left).
Ibanez smokes a 2 run homer to right.
Rich, you’re right people were concerned.
But there were also peope who said that he’s basically Hughes with better secondary stuff, so it’s okay, etc. But you can’t ignore missing velocity on a high velocity guy.
But it continues to amaze me that people trust and listen to manager and GM speak.
I guarantee that he and Cash were concerned. They’re just not going to share that.
GB……Maybe Ibanez isn’t a washed up hack after all ……
The most unfortunate thing is that the flogging will continue for much longer.
=====================
flogging. rhymes with blogging…
How does the bench and relief pitching on the roster shape up now?
Does maxwell have a shot if there are no further injuries?
Ibanez is making lot of people here eat crow
“But there were also peope who said that he’s basically Hughes with better secondary stuff, so it’s okay, etc. But you can’t ignore missing velocity on a high velocity guy.”
m
No, you can’t. It was silly for some to view him as a crafty right at 23 months after throwing 97.
You’re right, but I wish GMs and managers would say nothing rather than insult peoples’ collective intelligence.
“Ibanez is making lot of people here eat crow ”
I’ll have the knife and fork ready at the AS break. How about you?
Cervelli gets hit on the elbow.
Dickerson deep fly out to center.
Bernier is 1-3 with a single, hits a pop fly out to right.
Gil is 0-3. geound out to short.
8-5 NY starting bottom of the 5th
” he’ll start a long toss program under the hot Floridian sun and will cover my over 9 wins bet that I in the early morning hours after reading how he was done, Cashman and Giradi are idiots and how smart so many here really are……”
That’s over 9.5 wins! Go Pineda!
Pat M. March 31st, 2012 at 2:33 pm
GB……Maybe Ibanez isn’t a washed up hack after all ……
————————————————————————————————————————-
Another Andruw Jones that I fanned on last year?
Mason Williams, Maxwell and Bichette now in the game
Jones v. LHP in 2010: .256 .373 .558 .931
Ibanez v. RHP in 2011: .256 .307 .440 .747
Not close.
Hi Yankee fans ~
I’m so sorry to hear the news about Michael but, relieved to hear that it doesn’t sound too serious. Here’s to his complete and speedy recuperation!
I skimmed through some of the earlier discussions and wanted to comment on one of the topics – Michael’s innings increase from 2009-2010…
Indeed, on the surface, 47.1 to 139.1 looks like a huge jump. But, when you consider that the reason he pitched so few innings in 2009 was because of injury AND that in 2008 he recorded 138.1 innings, it’s much less daunting (since he had previously reached that total).
Now, I suppose one could surmise that the 2009 injury could have been caused, in part, by the jump from 59.0 in 2007 to 138.1 in 2008. I’m not sure what the typical jump is for a developing starter – I’m sure it varies from pitcher to pitcher and with what ease (or lack thereof) he gets through them.
*****
Rauuuuuuul!
Carlos Lee bombs a solo shot out to center off of Warren
The guy pitched a scoreless inning last night with a broken elbow. Let that settle in for a second.
“Meh.” – Joba Chamberlain
BBFan,
I hope they find a way to sneak Maxwell on there. Would hate for Boston to claim him! I’d like to leave Wade behind. Sounds like they’re taking one of the AAA starters as a long man.
Ibanez looking better. K-Long is truly The miracle Worker.
“Maybe Ibanez isn’t a washed up hack after all”
Still early but too many people wrote him off too soon.
After 5 innings, 8-6 Yanks.
Rosy
What would you offer for Ibanez in a trade….
Bichette homers to dead center
Pretty good news about Pineda. Hopefully, it gives him the peace of mind moving forward.
As usual, quality post CompassRosy.
Mason Williams strikes out
Bill Hall strike out
Ben Gamel strike out
9-6 middle of 6th inning
I want to see the Cano homer of video. sounds like it was an absolute bomb…20 MT type
Another discussion topic I wanted to chime in on (albeit, belatedly) is that of off-season conditioning…
I couldn’t remember hearing anything specific re: the Mariners off-season “instructions” to Michael Pineda. When I heard that he’d come to Yanks camp overweight (although, as some have mentioned, 20lbs on his frame doesn’t seem extreme) I searched again, to no avail.
In fact, I couldn’t find anything on any of the M’s pitchers. I guess, rightly so, the Mariners were totally focused on improving the “O”. Here’s an article from January that talks about Wedge’s little mid off-season assessment of some of the players…
http://tinyurl.com/6lkt5fs
:::: How eager is Wedge to impart his gung-ho mood on the Mariners? This eager: He couldn’t even wait until the first day of spring training to light his fire.
A few weeks ago, the manager arranged a three-day meeting in Seattle with nine position players. Camp Wedge began at Safeco Field, where trainer Rick Griffin appraised the progress of the players’ offseason workout regimens, and concluded around the hot stove at Wedge’s house.
“To a man, I told them that I need more,” Wedge said. “We got together professionally, casually, and personally.”
Said Zduriencik: “It was Eric’s idea. I didn’t get invited to the house, but that’s OK. I wanted this to be between Eric and the players.” :::::
I think people simply have realistic expectation for ibanez based on his age and numbers last year which simply was pedestrian at dh spot. I think lot of Yankees fan want better production at DH. after all, designated hitter are just that, some dude who can rake but prolly inept in the field. I think the Yanks be on the look out for better upgrades that is, unless Ibanez does bounce back.
The question is how long will Yanks stick with Ibanez if he is not hitting. time will tell.
I’m very excited to see what Dante Jr does in Charleston this yr. man, that team has a lot of talent. For the first time in a long time, the Yanks have a group of young position players that have a chance to move up the ranks together.
m….I absolutely believe that fans should question their teams moves both on the field as well as in the front office…..I also feel though rather than popping off with some uneducated rants these individuals should first attempt to understand the logic and strategy behind such maneuvers……I came to this conclusions at a young age when I was personally demoted a harsh reality…..Besides it will only aid one’s understanding of the game both on & off the field……Trust me, if you knew more and were smarter than these individuals, it’s likely you’d be less prone to go off on these incredible displays and outbursts of stupidity………Last night here reached a low point…….
bottom of the 6th inning. Warren still pitching
ground out to short.
ground out to 2nd
Warren is out.
5.2 innings, 10 hits, 6 runs 6 earned runs, 0 walks, 3 strikeouts, 2 homers allowed. ERA from about 1.90 to 4.91
Rapada gets 3rd out
Wedge said. “We got together professionally, casually, and personally.”
———-
doing what? workouts or watching porn?
Cashmoney…….I don’t think Ibanez was expected to get 100 ab’s this season……For a million dollars as you know isn’t squat anymore, you take a chance and throw it against the wall and hope it sticks……If anything, I thought Raul was here to protect Chavez more than anything else….
Hi, Pat M
I have ranted here many times over the years. Through either age or experience, I’ve learned to hold back some and wait for more information. As both sides of a debate have their points. Otherwise it wouldn’t be a debate.
Rapada and Garcia must be feeling a bit mire secure, though it comes at a cost to the team. You want to earn it, not get it by a walkover.
What happened to Sharapova?!
top of the 7th inning
Maxwell flies out to left
Cervelli doubles to right, Walter Ibarra running
Dickerson strike out
Wise strike out
middle of the 7th inning, 9-6 yanks
“If he’s going to go to the minors for this injury they should use the opportunity to also facilitate his development of that change up.”
cb-
why would anyone send a guy to the yankee rotation to learn a plus change up?
that was a recipe for disaster in the first place.
since a change up is thrown with the same arm speed as a fast ball, it is just as hard on the arm as a fastball.
pineda came into camp very out of shape and he didn’t have his good fastball.
so how was he supposed to work on a change up that was supposed to be based on his good fastball.
that’s ass backwards working on a change off a bad fastball. better to not even work on the change until the fastball came back.
there is just a whole lot of common sense lacking with how the yankees work with thier young pitchers in spring training.
was pineda competing, learning, or just getting in shape.
maybe if he was just getting in shape, he’d be in shape right now.
but no, he has to learn a new pitch and oh yeah , while he’s at it, win a competition for the fifth
spot.
doing the above three things all at once is just really a stupid way to go and the yankees did it.
there s simply no excuse. the yankees effed up again with a young prospect.
now they’ll be in damage control for who knows how long.
hopefully, they’ll treat him like manny and betances and be patient.
Ah, but sometimes the “debate” is between hinged and unhinged.
And sometimes the unhinged person is someone who should know better.
Pat M. Consider the limited options that was out there I think it’s not a horrible idea. the question is where they gonna get an impact bat if raul falters … how much resource will it cost them. I think put a tangible number … An OPSer over 810 i would be very happy. it’s something we need to wait to see how it plays out.
bottom of the 7th inning, Rapada still pitching
could be ugly. hall is playing shortstop
home run
rapada out and Preston Claiborne pitching
Last night here reached a low point…….
========================
Pat M
You say that everytime you post here
From a fan graphs article from earlier this spring:
As the 2011 season wore on, Pineda decided that it wasn’t in his best interests to come out firing at full velocity from the first pitch. He wanted to be more efficient early in games, so rather than coming out and throwing 97 and striking everyone out, he decided to ease off the fastball in the first inning or two and try to get some quick outs on the ground.
For instance, here are the first 10 pitches from his Pitch F/x log during his August 21st start against Tampa Bay from last year.
Fastball: 89.2
Fastball: 90.2
Fastball: 90.3
Fastball: 91.0
Change-Up: 85.5
Fastball: 93.9
Fastball: 91.8
Slider: 83.8
Slider: 83.6
Fastball: 93.7
He didn’t crack 94, and the average velocity was just over 91. The results were still fine, as he retired the side in order in the first inning, including getting two strikeouts, but the velocity wasn’t what he had shown earlier in the year. Later in the game, however, he was sitting 94-95 with regularity, and he finished the day with six innings pitched, allowing just six hits, no walks, and five strikeouts. It took him 94 pitches to throw those six innings.
Essentially, this development just isn’t new. Pineda spent a good part of the second half of 2011 experimenting with pitching at reduced velocities early in games, and then he cranked up the volume when he needed to as the game wore on. Now, I think an argument could be made that it’s a little disconcerting that Pineda feels it’s necessary to start games with diminished velocity, suggesting that perhaps he doesn’t feel he can throw in the mid-90s for 100 pitches per start over a full season. However, his performances from 2011 suggest that he’s choosing to throw at lower velocities early in starts, and you’d certainly rather have velocity loss be due to something that the pitcher can change when he wants to, rather than simply being unable to throw as hard as he used to.
Randy-
What you say makes a lot of sense, most of the time, and I mean good baseball sense.
I don’t mean this sarcastically, so please don’t take it that way, but…and I think you know what’s coming….
Why the hell aren’t you in baseball, you do have a baseball mind.
The point is not that he had to earn a spot or learn a pitch. He was missing ammo. They knew something was up and were patient (saying this is a big start is not being impatient) with him.
It’s not the Yankees fault or Pineda’s fault, it’s probably an innings hangover. If Hughes (Brittle-Boy by some accounts) then Pineda can, too.
It just takes patience.
9-7 Yanks bottom of the 7th inning
ground out to third (bichette)
ground out to shortstop
fly out to center
From here on out, anything in the air to left is gone.
Link,to that article
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....-velocity/
m….this prolly goes without saying but Pineda would not be an issue if he wasn’t involved in The Trade.
m….Last night was like a mob rioting firestorm…..It was like watching ” Invasion of the body snatchers ” …Hinged vs. Unhinged ??? Mick, last night was sick…….Maria Sharapova was primed for today to be picked off……Radawanska has been playing real well ever since NY last September…..
Ah, but sometimes the “debate” is between hinged and unhinged.
===========================
ah, but who would be the judge of that?
Gil homers to left
10-7 Yanks
Bichette with a homer to dead center
Pat M….yes and this AM’s session was almost if not more volatile…amazing dynamics here.
The Ebb and Flow, as Howard Cosell used to say.
bichette’s 2nd homer cleared the batter’s eye in center
mick,
Definitely goes without saying.
What I was trying to say is that every young starter is trying to make the roster. Many are learning or working on a certain pitch. But not every pitcher ends up with tendinitis.
Too bad we can’t watch Bichette set the world on fire.
Its super annoying that this game isn’t on tv since the kids are playing…..sounds like Dante is on a rampage.
“.I also feel though rather than popping off with some uneducated rants these individuals should first attempt to understand the logic and strategy behind such maneuvers……I came to this conclusions at a young age when I was personally demoted a harsh reality…..Besides it will only aid one’s understanding of the game both on & off the field……Trust me, if you knew more and were smarter than these individuals, it’s likely you’d be less prone to go off on these incredible displays and outbursts of stupidity………Last night here reached a low point…”
pat m-
on the other hand you took a position that getting pineda was a no brainer.
it’s not a slam dunk getting a guy like pineda.
i got a huge amount of backlash for saying from the beginning there were likely going to be problems with pineda. not from you, but you respectfully took an opposing view.
now , i think you have to at least acknowledge that pineda is not such a slam dunk and really is a work in progress.
that’s where things get sticky.
do we really want to take this work in progress and do the same things that were done to hughes , joba, and wang ?
i certainly don’t.
i want the yankee to sit down and look themselves in the mirror and say to themselves they suck at developing young pitchers and that thay have to make better tactical decisions as well as come up with overall better long term strategies.
as far as people getting stuck in the montero/pineda debate everyone knows my position on that. i’m moving on to fixing pineda and getting him to his ceiling.
The only difference between Manny, Dellin and Pineda is that Pineda has 1 year of MLB experience, 1/2 of which was good and where he earned a reputation.
For all we know our 2 prospects are better than the newest one.
Keep in mind, they are all Prospects.
Perhaps, this is the way it was meant to be.
The kid is still a baby, give him the chance to grow like the others and not have to live up to the projected hype of Montero.
Things have a way of working out in baseball.
Williams grounds out to short
Hall strike out
Feliz strikeout
middle of the 8th inning, 11-7 Yanks
These homers will be on YES.com in about 2 hours.
Pineda shouldn’t throw a pitch in the majors this season until he can regularly hit 97 with ease.
m, when you say it’s not the Yankees’ fault, are you referring to Pineda’s diminished velocity this spring?
If so, of course that’s not their fault, but, and this is more devil’s advocacy than earnest conviction, how they dealt with it is up to the Yankees.
They’re supposed to be the professionals who are coaching and developing this young pitcher. It’s not a wild leap to say that something went wrong between Pineda’s welcome to the team and last night’s debacle. Part of what went could could be on the Yankees. Hard to just flat out say it’s not their fault.
Mariana Bichette ? @MarianaBichette
HOMERUN for D!!!!!!!!! Thank you Jesus!!!!!!!!! Go Yankees!!!!!
after 1st homer
:::: Rosy
What would you offer for Ibanez in a trade…. :::::
Rich ~
He would actually have to be acquired in a trade?
Thought the Yanks were going to drop him
Anyhow, M’s do have a couple of OF’ers starting the season on the DL (Guti and Carp) but, somehow I don’t think 3rd time’s the charm is in the cards for the M’s and Raul…
Mariana Bichette ? @MarianaBichette
Another pitch another BOMB over batters eye omgosh!!!!!!
Both homers came on the first pitch
“It’s not the Yankees fault…”
yes it is.
it was stupid to simultaneously:
#1 have pineda get into shape quickly and try get his velocity up to normal when he showed up out of shape
#2 learn a new plus pitch
#3 compete for a a starting spot in the rotation
the yankees made the choice to do all three things at the same time.
tendinitis doesn’t happen overnight.
part of what sucks about it is it develops slowly and takes just as long to get rid of it entirely.
because you can play with it, it tend to become a nagging injury.
the yankees could have avoided the whole problem with simply working on getting pineda in shape and working on the fast ball.
they did not choose to do that.
they made a bad choice.
from their point of view , they got what they deserved.
from pineda’s view it sucks.
the kid didn’t deserve to be treated that way.
welcome to yankeeland.
Nick,
I meant that it’s not their fault he has tendinitis.
Sure, you can argue they were liable to a certain degree, by the virtue of allowing him to throw a single pitch.
But the thought that he developed tendinitis in a span of an inning is far/fetched to me.
I feel tendinitis happens to pitchers. And not just Yankee pitchers. And not just young Yankee pitchers.
Claiborne getting touched up by the Houston Wind Jammers. homer and back to back doubles.
End inning with 2 strikeouts
11-9 NY after 8 innings
#1 have pineda get into shape quickly and try get his velocity up to normal when he showed up out of shape
#2 learn a new plus pitch
#3 compete for a a starting spot in the rotation
=============================
#4 do all of this under the pressure of being equal to or better than the guy they traded him for
“Pineda shouldn’t throw a pitch in the majors this season until he can regularly hit 97 with ease.”
i agree.
i also don’t think he should work on change ups until he hits 97 with ease.
I meant that it’s not their fault he has tendinitis.
==============================
And they had no inkling he had tendinitis? Hard to fathom.
It’s way too early to start speculating about AAA for Pineda. If the shoulder inflammation caused his pitching problems, then when it clears up he should be OK. Wait and see.
oh, I had to chuckle a bit at this…
“After today’s game, the Yankees will bus back to Tampa, then those who are making this weekend’s trip to play the Marlins will catch a flight to Miami. It’s going to be a few days of tough travel here at the end of spring training.”
Sorry if I can’t muster up an empathy
M’s and A’s just returned from a week in Japan. M’s will resume their spring schedule tonight and play through Wednesday in Zona before “re-starting” the season with a two game series in Oakland and then traveling to Texas for a 4-gamer before finally starting the season at home on Friday the 13th
could be randy is cash’s alter ego…..call him flash cash .
I’m not an expert, so I’ll ask. Does dead arm and tendinitis go hand and hand?
The only one that detecting tendonitis without being check and being examined that this would be hard to fathom are ones that are dying to point fingers. On LoHud? Hard to believe.
“I meant that it’s not their fault he has tendinitis.”
We don’t know that it is or isn’t. I mean, he could have gotten it no matter what and other pitchers have and will get it even if the team is doing everything right and by the book.
But, if you drain out all the bias and blame-Cashman reflex stuff from our friend randy’s post, it’s not beyond reasonable belief that the way the Yanks have handled Pineda this spring contributed (or didn’t contribute enough in preventing) to Pinedas present condition.
Of course it’s not like they just forgot to rub the no-tendinitis cream on his shoulder. There is no absolute, clear line you can draw from Yankee action/inaction to Pineda getting tendinitis.
I just don’t think you can absolve them completely either, and especially not from allowing things to get to where they got by last night. He didn’t develop tendinitis in one inning, which is the point. Somehow he ended up on the mound with it last night and we saw the results.
I guess what I’m really saying is, there is a whole lot of ambiguity here, and it’s one of those things that can’t be proven beyond any doubt either way.
Girardi appears to be a sensitive, decent guy but a part of me sees him as a Mgr who has a hard time making decisions yet knows exactly what he wants.
He wanted Freddy in the rotation after almost promising him a spot.
He wanted Montero out of here because he is a Catching Purist.
While sitting on the fence his prophesy almost magically came true last night and he didn’t have to lift a finger…or take a step.
tendonitis is not like a bacterial infection you catch.
it’s an overuse injury.
overuse is relative to the shape an athlete is in.
i could give myself tendonitis in my right elbow if i went out and hit 800 balls today like i used to do when i was in better golf shape.
i could hit maybe 100 balls at the most without doing some physical damage that might result in the beginning of tendonitis.
if i kept pushing a little too hard and didn’t rest properly and skip some days, at the end of a month i’d have a pretty good case of tendonitis going.
now who’s fault would that be?
it’d be mine because i kept pushing when i should have been taking it easier.
pineda was at fault for showing up out of shape and the yankees are at fault for pushing him onward as if he was in shape.
Is Bichette Jr. trying to say something?
So a pitcher can go on indefinitely, hiding the fact he has tendinitis, showing no sign of any pain?
already miss Jesus
“But, if you drain out all the bias and blame-Cashman reflex stuff from our friend randy’s post”
what an ignorant self serving statement.
are most of the regulars playing in the Miami Exhibition?
I don’t think the Yankees made a mistake by planning on him being in the rotation and competing for a spot…..I do think it was a mistake for them to drag this “competition” out to a point where he felt pressure to over throw last night to make the rotation……and I think it was a mistake to then let him throw all those pitches when clearly something was wrong.
So long as it really is just inflammation he should be fine….and long term hopefully this will be a blip on his career…..but the Yanks have to do this right….and asa others have said….not bring him up until he’s throwing the ball the way he’s capable …..like the guy they traded for…..you can’t force these things to happen…..
Randy…As you noted I was and still am excited that Michael Pineda is in Pinstripes…..However, what took place last night was vented up hostility simply fueled due to the Montero trade……As I pointed out, this anger has been directed at Martin, and to a lesser degree Austin R…..We’ve seen this with Hughes and Granderson and Alex and so on……This point isn’t what side of the trade one’s finds themselves, it’s the overwhelming blinded anger that came across last night…..Maybe that is what SJ meant yesterday when he referred to this place as a sewer …….
“So a pitcher can go on indefinitely, hiding the fact he has tendinitis, showing no sign of any pain?”
mick-
most pitchers hurt or experience some soreness every time they throw.
what an ignorant self serving statement.
==========================
maybe our friend is trying to say he agrees with you?
“Is Bichette Jr. trying to say something?”
I think he’s trying to say maybe the Yankees saw something that everyone else didn’t last year during the draft……kid has done nothing but rake since he signed……im very interested to see how he fairs in the sally…
“what an ignorant self serving statement.”
Suggesting that you might have a valid point was an ignorant, self-serving statement?
Tendonitis in the shoulder could mean many different things. It’s a symptom, not an injury. Way too soon to start pointing fingers.
Game over, called after 8 and a half because of rain. 11-9 Yanks
most pitchers hurt or experience some soreness every time they throw.
=============================
randy
i understand this but this seems like it hit its peak last night.
coincidence the kid was pitching for his life?
was it crafted that way?
they obviously knew nothing about his condition as he hid it well…but last night he was grimacing,
rubbing his shoulder.
“As I pointed out, this anger has been directed at Martin”
Must say….Martin has looked amazing defensively this spring. If he’s past the I jury stuff then he should be even stronger this year….hopefully the consistency with the bat will come around.
Part of me says the Yanks concocted last nights start akin to seeing how Pineda would throw under pressure…
They’ve handled hughes exactly like they handled Pineda this year. Both had to impress to get a spot, both were learning or relearning pitches and both dealt with the same pressure.
Tin-foil hats on, everybody.
except hughes wasn’t acquired in a trade for a prodigy.
“This point isn’t what side of the trade one’s finds themselves, it’s the overwhelming blinded anger that came across last night…..Maybe that is what SJ meant yesterday when he referred to this place as a sewer …….”
pat m-
i missed a lot of last night,and it goes without saying that the trade is done and the yankees have pineda. you move on to what’s in front of you and that’s pineda.
that said, your camp has to back off a bit an acknowledge that maybe you were wrong on how quick pineda could be brought along.
you an i are friends so we’re not going off the deep end with each other when we disagree,but i got huge backlash simply for saying pineda should learn the change at triple AAA.
the people who were responsible for that backlash are getting it back at them now maybe.
maybe that’s why it got a little ugly last night. i don’t know though .
i do know a whole lot of people have to rethink their positions about how pineda is worked into the yankee rotation.
“i got huge backlash simply for saying pineda should learn the change at triple AAA. ”
No, you got a big backlash for saying it 1,000 times.
A sewer?
That’s a little far fetched isn’t it?
Condescending?
I feel that Pineda would still be trying to generate velocity even if there was no competition. Because a pitcher wants his velocity back.
He wasn’t pushing it all spring. Trying to do it the last outing didn’t cause it. It might have exacerbated it or forced him to admit that maybe something really was wrong.
These weren’t ML pitchers Bichette hit off of today, but they were AAA pitchers…still pretty impressive for a 19 year old.
Inflammation of the shoulder tendon is not a “symptom”, it’s a “sign”. A symptom is an ailment reported by the patient while a sign can be observed with instruments or Doc’s eyes.
Wave…..Yes, Tendinitis is a conditional symptom and it is not an injury….Been telling folks here that ever since the Joba event back in 08…. I’ve dealt with it and still do and it’s a shot, rest , and then stretching out muscles to rebuild muscles…….Randy knows this very well
If someone thinks they are better than this crowd, why do they come here?
To feel superior.
No room for that.
“Inflammation of the shoulder tendon is not a “symptom”, it’s a “sign”. ”
There are symptoms and injuries. Signs are for soothsayers.
Soreness is a “symptom” of tendonitis.
“Suggesting that you might have a valid point was an ignorant, self-serving statement?”
nick in sf-
you said, “But, if you drain out all the bias and blame-Cashman reflex stuff from our friend randy’s post…”
i think it was the “bias” and “blame- Cashman reflex stuff” that kind of pissed me off.
Bret…..A sympton or a result of inflamation
..which in this case was reported by the patient (Pineda).
A symptom is a type of result. It’s not a cause.
I repeat, how did the Yanks not know he had tendinitis til last night?
And only because he got lit up…
Tin Cup…….Your points are well taken, but late last night was mass hysteria, and the anti trade contingent was like they rallied extras from the Hills have Eyes…….
i do know a whole lot of people have to rethink their positions about how pineda is worked into the yankee rotation.
————————————————————————————————————————-
Well, yeah…I suppose an injury would make you rethink how Pineda fits into the rotation.
He wasn’t worked any differently thah hughes, Sabathia, Nova or anyone else.
Do you think nova’s hiding an injury and the Yankee staff is just ignoring it? He’s not pitching very well.
pat m…aren’t the anti trade contingent zealots to begin with, sort of one trick ponies…what did you expect?
Inflammation is a sign of tendonitis.
Soreness is a symptom of tendonitis.
how long can you hide an injury?
tendonitis is spelled tendinitis
Being a dickhead is a symptom of bipolar disorder in many cases.
for all the supposed geniuses here, no one can answer a simple question.
randy-
You are biased against Cashman. You post a lot of good stuff but your obvious dislike of Cashman undermines your persuasiveness.
But I guess being a dickhead can also be a sign of bipolar disorder.
“how long can you hide an injury?”
Until you can’t hide it anymore?
Yes, randy, and if you drain away the part of my post that pissed you off, you’ll see I was giving you some credit for possibly having a valid point.
How saying something that pissed you off constitutes it being an ignorant, self-serving statement remains an open question, but that’s ok.
Randy,
I don’t think they would or should send Pineda down though had he been pumping 95 like he did last year…..if his arm was right he’d be in the rotation….his CU had progressed already despite the problems…..the main reason I started moving toward the opinion that he should start in AAA the last couple of weeks was because it was becoming more clear that the velocityand issue wasn’t just because he was building arm strength……nit because of his CU.
I guess being a dickhead might be a symptom of bipolar disorder only in rare cases because the patient is unaware how he much of a dickhead he really is.
“.Your points are well taken, but late last night was mass hysteria,”
patm-
like i said , i wasn’t tuning in that close last night.
there are idiots on both sides of issues here. that’s a given
there’s no reason to let that get in the way of core people discussing pineda though and where to go from here.
It seems to me that there is much to much ego involved on this blog. Randy you make a lot sense but so does Nick. Why the name calling and such? It is not productive to good discussion. We’ll never know what caused Pineda’s tendinitis , although reasonable speculation would suggest the two factors you (Randy) brought to light.
As for the TRADE, well it is done. Like it or not there is absolutely no point in going on about it. Nor is there any point in blaming a player for it. If in a few years Montero has fulfilled his promise and Pineda has not, I would not be surprised to see someone other than Cashman as our GM.
If people only developed thicker skins and stopped trash talking this would be a better place!
Bret……Well I get shots at least every two months whether it’s my knees, hips, shoulder, and the occasional ankle shot…..Are you any good with the syringe ???? My motto is, the needle is far more desirable that a scalpel and staples anyday
Pat M, unless Pineda turns into a combo of Koufax, Gibson, Drysdale, Walter Johnson and Cy Young, the trade is going to be looked at as the worst trade in history by some people. I’m sorry that he’s hurt, but I’m glad in a way that Pineda is now out of the limelight because he has, through no fault of his own, been marked with a target on his back. HE has no room for error, he won’t be allowed to be a young pitcher – and that’s unfortunate.
And therefore might be incapable of reporting it.
Until you can’t hide it anymore?
=====================
and thats what happened yesterday i guess…maybe he was saying, enough already I can’t take this pressure, it’s not fun, send me down or to the DL I don’t care anymore…he cracked under the pressure, just what girardi wanted to see if he would do…
How saying something that pissed you off constitutes it being an ignorant, self-serving statement remains an open question, but that’s ok.
=========================
I think they call it a backhanded compliment Nick.
Maybe a back-stabber compliment.
Pat M.
All I can say is that pain killers inhibit normal production of endorphins, your natural defense against pain and stress. Surgery might be a better option towards repair and long term recovery that gives you a chance to restore endorphins.
But I’m biased because needles frighten me.
I have a pain in my left shoulder. Do I have tendinitis? Am I hiding it if I don’t know what it is?
Is my Dr hiding it from me because he wants to treat it as something I think might be more serious? The World wants and needs to know?
Does anybody know if he was trying to learn the cutter and that accounts for the position of his hand when he was releasing the ball and that caused the soreness or did he change the release because it was sore when going over the top?
what is the difference between a backhanded compliment and a back stabber compliment?
I would think a lot.
Does anybody know if he was trying to learn the cutter and that accounts for the position of his hand when he was releasing the ball and that caused the soreness or did he change the release because it was sore when going over the top?
================================
Tweet Joba and ask him as he might know and will certainly tweet you back.
“Does anybody know if he was trying to learn the cutter and that accounts for the position of his hand when he was releasing the ball and that caused the soreness or did he change the release because it was sore when going over the top?”
Cone asked Girardi last night if he was working on a cutter and be said he wasn’t.
Maybe Cone should be the pitching coach, I’m sure it’s in his future.
Coney is very insightful , brilliant at times.
And he is a sabremetrician.
While there are natural ways to reduce systemic inflammation, localized inflammation is a little less tricky. Rest, non-use, decreased workload, physical aids. But that’s not my area.
bret, sounds like you slept in a Holiday Inn last night.
“.his CU had progressed already despite the problems…”
blake -
i have to stop you there.
you’re saying something similar to what i think CB was saying last night.
a change up is based off a maximum fastball.
has it occurred to you that pineda wasn’t only straining himself to throw a maximum fastball; he was also straining himself every time he tried to throw the change up because the arm speed effort is supposed to be the same.
it’s not ideal to be learning a change up when the proper fastball arm speed is not there.
for one thing, the grip alone from a change up could cause the tendonitis . fingers have to be contorted to throw pitches. we don’t know that pineda didn’t have problems precisely because he was throwing so many change ups with different finger positions and different pressure points than he was used to.
this is why i said go to AAA and slowly learn a new plus pitch.
it gives time for the body to adjust.
tendonitis to me is really just too much too soon.
i deal with it all the time and try to nip it in the bud when it starts appearing.
luckily i’m an amateur at everything i do so i rest when i start to feel the burning that often accompanies tendonitis.
pineda probably felt it weeks ago and said nothing.
coaches are there to slow down these guys.
they didn’t do it when they should have.
Mick….By the way, SJ wasn’t being condescending, he was just passing along a personal observation…..A snapshot of then and now sort of thing……And I think he’s right……I went back in the archives from June 2009 a few weeks ago and the even that off season for some reason……The differing viewpoints were far less hostile and the nature of the discussions were enjoyable and enlightening…..Not so much in your face….Then again Pete was micro managing the blog and he created a good portion of the static from time to time….Right GB ??? What ever became of Murphy dog
Being a dickhead may also be a sign of hypertension. Eliminate salt and foods packaged with sodium. Smile. Kiss your wife. Hug your children.
they didn’t do it when they should have.
=========================
AHA!
Mick….By the way, SJ wasn’t being condescending, he was just passing along a personal observation….
==============
Isn’t everything here a personal observation?
Pat M, no offense because he is your friend but, like many here, if you don’t agree with him he was talking down soon after.
Increase your potassium: sweet potatoes, bananas, tomatoes.
bret, what if this person you are referring to is a diabetic?
comet March 31st, 2012 at 4:15 pm
It seems to me that there is much to much ego involved on this blog. Randy you make a lot sense but so does Nick. Why the name calling and such? It is not productive to good discussion. We’ll never know what caused Pineda’s tendinitis , although reasonable speculation would suggest the two factors you (Randy) brought to light.
As for the TRADE, well it is done. Like it or not there is absolutely no point in going on about it. Nor is there any point in blaming a player for it. If in a few years Montero has fulfilled his promise and Pineda has not, I would not be surprised to see someone other than Cashman as our GM.
If people only developed thicker skins and stopped trash talking this would be a better place!
————
Preaching to the choir here. The ones that don’t do it, won’t do it. The ones who DO take those intransigent, insulting and derogatory stances will continue, sure as sunrise.
Randy,
Your speaking in a lot of hypotheticals though….and again Pineda isn’t learning a CU from scratch……he already threw one last year and in the minors…..he’s just trying to make it better……so yea what you’re saying is true about arm speed etc…..but its also a feel pitch and he’s thrown some good ones this spring.
I’ve said from the start that I wouldn’t have sent him down soley to work on his CU and I stand by that now….I would send him down though for the reasons they we’re considering it even before he got hurt…..which wad that he just wasn’t throwing the ball right.
“How saying something that pissed you off constitutes it being an ignorant, self-serving statement remains an open question, but that’s ok.”
nick in sf-
you crack me up how you throw out insults like “biased” and don’t see the arrogance built in to your statement. you’re assuming you’re not biased , but i am. that’s self serving.
why give yourself so much credit ?
Pat M…that trade was a blockbuster and divisive as all heck…what do you expect from fans?
1. All the fibers of a strong structure (Tendon) run the same direction.
2. When injured, either through trauma or wear-and-tear, some of these fibers break/rip/tear.
3. The body kicks in aProcess of Inflammation,which traps fluid in the area and releases chemicals which make you extra-sensitive to pain -and- has the body tighten muscles.
4. Scar Tissue is the same kind of protein fiber as the original tissue but it lays down in a variety of directions to heal ‘fast’.
5. These ‘non-aligned’ fibers make the structure less strong than it was pre-injury.
6. Then it takes less and less to re-injure the structure. The nervous system get more reactive and tries more and more to protect you by making muscles tighter and tighter. This puts more torque/strain on the structurally weakened structure.
7. Every time one of those non-aligned fibers tears or breaks off, the body reads that as an injury and kicks in more inflammation process.
8. Return to #2 and repeat over and over as the days, weeks, and months pass.
If the only problem with Tendinitis was ‘inflammation’, it wouldn’t be the national epidemic that it is. Inflammation is easy to deal
Read more: http://www.tendonitisexpert.co.....z1qjFhRMyJ
I see that Lance Pendleton was released from the Astros’ minor league camp yesterday. I have been unable to find out whether he is injured or not. He had an invitation to major league camp, but only pitched one inning before being assigned to the minor league camp on March 15. I don’t know whether, or how well, he pitched in the minor league camp. One wonders if the Yankees, if they cannot get satisfied with either Warren, or Phelps, or Mitchell as the temporary 12th pitcher, would give Lance Pendleton a tryout in the next few days for that spot. Wouldn’t cost much. It would allow all of the better starter prospects to get consistent starts from the start of the season in AAA instead of trying to convert to long relief temporarily in New York. Of course, all of this depends upon whether Pendleton is healthy or not. Anyone know?
So someone diagnosed bipolar (or manic depressive) with or someone with hypertension can do these small things and optimize expensive therapy sessions licensed psychiatrists. But any systemic chemical imbalances make it difficult to let go of unresolved anger issues from childhood, no matter how much these patients pay their shrinks.
In 2009 you couldn’t hardly even carry on a conversation with anybody here though because of the trolls and nonsense posts that were so frequent pre-registration.
mick…….SJ & I went toe to toe about Joba to the pen…..And yes, I was on the bullpen side…What SJ had little tolerance was for stupidity and still does………His departure from here was a loss, whether you liked him or not……He knew what he spoke about, and he was funny
Pat M. March 31st, 2012 at 4:29 pm
Mick….By the way, SJ wasn’t being condescending, he was just passing along a personal observation…..A snapshot of then and now sort of thing……And I think he’s right……I went back in the archives from June 2009 a few weeks ago and the even that off season for some reason……The differing viewpoints were far less hostile and the nature of the discussions were enjoyable and enlightening…..Not so much in your face….Then again Pete was micro managing the blog and he created a good portion of the static from time to time….Right GB ??? What ever became of Murphy dog
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PA did keep a close eye on things, but tended to use a closed fist if he didn’t care for you. He had his favorites and those he tried to bully or push around….not on here, but in personal and I mean very personal, emails. He backed off when you jumped back at him, though. There were very few issues with the normal posters. The trouble was PA’s personal attacks and admitted biases and once the trolls learned this place was open.
Then, there was Randy. Couldn’t stand that jerk. Then he sent me a bunch of money to buy my friendship and he’s much better now that he has a steady “nurse” and part time caddy.
In 2009 you couldn’t hardly even carry on a conversation with anybody here though because of the trolls and nonsense posts that were so frequent pre-registration.
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blake- don’t forget the imposters…ahhh the good ol days.
“so yea what you’re saying is true about arm speed etc…..but its also a feel pitch and he’s thrown some good ones this spring.”
blake-
you’re missing the point.
the change up is in fact another fastball.
he likely threw too many for his conditioning level.
over use is what makes tendonitis.
trying to improve his change up ( it was so bad last year i hesitate it give it credit for being one) took repetition.
it goes without saying he threw more pitches than he should have.
maybe the change ups were the ones that pushed him into tendonitis territory.
he threw too many pitches.
he should have backed off.
that should be obvious.
Pat M- I never said I didn’t like him. Just trying to be objective.
Mick,
Exercise, sweating, sauna help control HTN in diabetics. Potassium rich foods are OK as long as your carb load is small.
“Then, there was Randy. Couldn’t stand that jerk. Then he sent me a bunch of money to buy my friendship and he’s much better now that he has a steady “nurse” and part time caddy.”
quiet, i’m trying to get the tinsel to hang right off my tin foil hat.
How about exercising without sweating?
Could throwing the changeup more frequently this spring have caused/contributed to the tendinitis? Maybe something mechanically but I don’t know enough about it, just a question.
tomingeorgia you are so right!
2404325409_5543da1791.jpg
“the change up is in fact another fastball.”
I understand that….but we are talking about two different things here I think….you’re suggesting that working on the CU helped lead to the velocity issue…..and I agree that it very well may have contributed to it…..but he was going to work on his CU this spring whether he was going to AAA or the big leagues either way…..what Im saying is that if his arm was right and he came to camp throwing 95 and touching 98 like he was supposed it…..then I would have been fine with him working on improving his CU in the big leagues and in side sessions.
Honestly…..I think this has more to do with 2nd year syndrome than anything else…..its probably multifactorial….but if I had to rank what was the biggest contributor that would be my guess.
HIGH potassium low carb or zero carb
Avocado, fish, meat, poultry, spinach, sweet potatoes, tomatoes
“Randy you make a lot sense but so does Nick. Why the name calling and such? It is not productive to good discussion.”
tomingeorgia-
probably best to not be the third one in. i’m not going to let nick in sf make snide comments about me as he says he partially agreeing with me.
we are however having a good discussion though so moving on…
Knowing how good the bat was, you mean to say that between Tony Pena and Joe Girardi, and teacher’s pet Russell Martin, they could not have coddled and coaxed Montero’s glove to conjure at least a generic defender behind the plate??
What’s so special about Girardi, that he just threw up his hands at “go” on helping Montero grow his craft as a catcher? What’s wrong with these f’n people, that they get off scott free from criticism for not giving it a fair shake???
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I mean – this stuff is still out there and it is March turning to April – Martin being called a teacher’s pet – and blaming Tony Pena and Joe Girardi for all things Montero related. Sometimes a sewer pit of delusion needs to be cleaned with industrial bleach. . . . .
If you don’t sweat then you are not excreting sodium.
I think folks misremember sometimes how bad this place was before registration got rid of a ton of trolls…imposters etc……I liked SJ and wish he’d come back….but half the time nobody even knew if it was him posting or one of his 50 imposters
Avocado, fish, meat, poultry, spinach, sweet potatoes, tomatoes
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Nathan’s French Fries?
randy,
I was replying to comet, not commenting on nick’s and your conversation. Wouldn’t dare do that.
I think folks misremember sometimes how bad this place was before registration got rid of a ton of trolls…imposters etc……I liked SJ and wish he’d come back….but half the time nobody even knew if it was him posting or one of his 50 imposters
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Yet some say those were better days?
“you’re suggesting that working on the CU helped lead to the velocity issue…..”
blake -
i’m suggesting that he threw too many pitches for the bad shape he was in.
he could have thrown too many fastballs and that would have given him tendonitis too.
he was using a new finger position.
anything new takes getting used to.
i can put pressure on the little finger of my left hand and watch my shoulder twitch. pineda was doing too much too fast.
it’ just common sense to learn at a slower pace. if he wasn’t in danger of losing a rotation spot he might have spoken up sooner.
gotta run.
good discussion.
to be continued.
“you crack me up how you throw out insults like “biased” and don’t see the arrogance built in to your statement. you’re assuming you’re not biased , but i am. that’s self serving. why give yourself so much credit ?”
One, you are biased. Sometimes you admit it, sometimes you don’t.
Two, I have my own biases, as do we all, so there is no assumption to the contrary on my part.
Three, I don’t know what credit I gave myself, but you see things other people don’t always see.
SJ44 is missed. He was temperamental but so are most people.
Three, I don’t know what credit I gave myself, but you see things other people don’t always see
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This could be a compliment, might not be.
Not sure if it’s a backhand or forehand…
“it’ just common sense to learn at a slower pace. if he wasn’t in danger of losing a rotation spot he might have spoken up sooner.”
This I agree with….there is no way it should have come down to how hard Pineda throws in a ST start…..that wasn’t very smart.
mick,
At least left-handed.
I have only one thing to add to this discussion before I go running some errands:
BEAT LOUISVILLE!!!!
later
Pat M,
I too miss SJ. He had information and valid positions whether you agreed or not. The primary reason to come to a board is for information and ideas.
You are wise on avoiding surgery at all costs. After my knee surgery I realized minor surgery is surgery on someone else.