As deadline passes, Yankees roster is finalized
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Apr 04, 2012 
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General manager Brian Cashman just confirmed that the Yankees roster is now official. The 5 p.m. deadline has come and gone, and the Yankees have set their 25-man roster with a combination of predictable and stunning moves.
David Phelps named long reliever
There was no obvious choice here. After Michael Pineda went down with a shoulder tendinitis, it became clear that one of the projected Triple-A starters would open in the big league bullpen. The choice was Phelps, a 25-year-old who also won the Dawson Award as the best rookie in camp. he was the Yankees minor league Pitcher of the Year in 2010, and last season he led the system with a 2.99 ERA (counting two starts in rookie ball). Phelps won the job over D.J. Mitchell and Adam Warren.
“He had a very good camp,” Joe Girardi said. “They’re all so close, as we told these kids. It was a very difficult decision. It really came down to the last day that we talked about. He threw the ball really well this spring, and they were so close, but we just chose him. He’s a guy that hold runners and (has) three or four pitches and performed well in Triple-A. His strikeout-to-walk ratio is really good, but they’re all really close.”
Because Phelps was optioned to minor league camp earlier this spring, he was techincally recalled, taking the place of Pineda, who will now be placed on the disabled list.
Clay Rapada named second lefty
Cesar Cabral might have won this job had he stayed healthy, but when Cabral went down with an elbow injury, Rapada became an overwhelming favorite to break camp with the team. The side-arming lefty has held left-handed hitters to a .153 average in his big league career. He allowed four hits and struck out 13 in 10 innings this spring.
“Sometimes you need that lefty in the fourth inning, then you go to your long man and you get back in the game,” Girardi said. “There’s some big left-handed hitters in our division, so it just gives us more options, and it’s very possible that you might need your left-hander three or four days in a row, and physically your guy can’t do that.”
Chris Stewart named backup catcher
Obviously this was the real stunning move of the day. The Yankees catching depth took a hit with Austin Romine’s back injury, and to remedy that situation, the team traded for Stewart and optioned Francisco Cervelli to Triple-A. Cervelli wasn’t happy (obviously), and the Yankees feel more comfortable should something happen to Russell Martin.
“As we enter the 2012 campaign,” Brian Cashman said. “Our catching options – with (Craig) Tatum now the backup in Triple-A – is remade in a better place than it was in the last week or 10 days.”
Justin Maxwell designated for assignment
A move that was inevitable no matter how well Maxwell played this spring. Given the Yankees full outfield, and the fact Maxwell is out of options, it was never particularly likely that the Yankees would keep Maxwell. He has some power, some speed and a good eye at the plate. He can play all three outfield positions and he hit .310/.408/.429 this spring, but the Yankees don’t have an opening for a fourth outfielder, and so Maxwell was designated for assignment.
Even if he clears waivers, Maxwell said this morning that he can elect free agency rather than be outrighted to Triple-A. Barring a surprise, the Yankees seem unlikely to be able to keep Maxwell beyond this spring.
Hall given his release
Bill Hall didn’t technically have an out in his contract, but he asked for and was given his release upon not making the big league roster. Cashman confirmed that the other veterans on minor league deals — Jayson Nix, Dewayne Wise, Doug Bernier — were all retained. It seems entirely possible, if not likely, that the Yankees will eventually give Gustavo Molina his release as well. Now that the Yankees have added catching depth, Molina has to decide whether to accept an assignment to Double-A or look for a better opportunity.
The final 25-man roster
Rotation
CC Sabathia
Hiroki Kuroda
Phil Hughes
Ivan Nova
Freddy Garcia
Bullpen
Mariano Rivera
Dave Robertson
Rafael Soriano
Boone Logan
Cory Wade
Clay Rapada
David Phelps
Lineup
Derek Jeter SS
Curtis Granderson CF
Robinson Cano 2B
Alex Rodriguez 3B
Mark Teixeira 1B
Nick Swisher RF
Raul Ibanez DH
Russell Martin C
Brett Gardner LF
Bench
Andruw Jones OF
Eduardo Nunez SS
Eric Chavez 3B
Chris Stewart C
Associated Press photos
BryanHoch
Brian Cashman said there’s a possibility of more Yankees trades today. “We’re scanning,” he said.
*********
I bet somebody out there likes Cervelli and they’re considering offering the Yankees a reliever better than Kontos for Cervelli.
This is not a depth move because guys like Chris Stewart and Tatum are a dime-a-dozen. There’s little difference between Stewart and G. Molina.
Cervelli, as much as people rag on him, has logged many innings as a major leaguer and he makes nothing.
He’s worth a solid – late inning reliever. He’s maybe even worth a good lefty.
re-post due to timeliness and truthiness:
here are this season’s over/under Yankee prop bets:
Jeter BA .285
HR 9.5
RBI 62.5
Arod BA .275
HR 27.5
RBI 95.5
Tex BA .270
HR 34.5
RBI 101.5
Cano BA .307
HR 27.5
RBI 109.5
Swisher HR 24.5
Russell Munson HR 14.5
Granderson BA .255
HR 33.5
RBI 100.5
Ibanez HR 15
Gardner Steals 45.5
CC Wins 17.5
ERA 3.25
K’s 200.5
Kuroda Wins 12.5
Nova Wins 12.5
Mo Saves 35.5
Cervelli has trade value and could fill in as a capable starter for several NL teams (not the Yankees). With Romine on the way as a backup (he’s looking that way right now), it might be time to sell Cervelli. He can do many things that have value for NL lineups. You can play hit and run with him. He can bunt, hit sac flies, move runners and he’s a good baserunner himself as a catcher. He offers alot of versatility that fits in with NL style play.
He’s worth far more than portrayed. I bet he’s worth more in a trade than as a Yankee backup. Romine will be ready to backup next year I bet. I doubt his back is broken.
Cervelli is a small-ball catcher and a decent receiver with ML experience and a low salary. That definitely has value for NL clubs.
Brett,
They just demoted Cervelli to AAA. Any trade value he had has now dropped by 50%. He didn’t do enough to make the team in their eyes and they valued his skills more as organizational depth over major league impact. They basically just told the league what they really think of him as a catcher. He’s filler.
“Maybe if they had acquired an UPGRADE it would make sense, but they didnt.”
————
Yanks seem to value defense at the position and he is an upgrade there.
I don’t see what all the fuss is about… EXCEPT that you could argue that giving up Kontos wasn’t necessary.
If you really liked Kontos, ok. Otherwise, arguing about this at all seems silly. If Stewart is horrible, Cervelli is still there in AAA (supposedly proving he belongs) and they can call him up.
This is only about whether you think losing Kontos will negatively impact the Yanks and nothing else.
ANY other team in the league makes this trade and it doesn’t even get a mention. Needless to say, Keith Law doesn’t like it.
With Romine on the way as a backup (he’s looking that way right now),
–
Romine has a bad back, out for a couple months to a while.
Stop the presses, Yanks sign Ramon Ortiz…
Nick in SF…..Load up on A-Rod and then back the bet up with Kuroda…
“Yanks seem to value defense at the position and he is an upgrade there.”
Stewart has been released by five different clubs over 5 seasons. How good can he be?
I don’t see what all the fuss is about… EXCEPT that you could argue that giving up Kontos wasn’t necessary.
–
Exactly. The wild overpay is annoying. Its a meh result but a poor process.
Jeter: over, under, over arod: over, over, over Tex: under, over, over Cano: over, over, over Swisher: over Martin: over Granderson: over, over, over Ibanez: under Gardner: over Sabathia: over, under, over Kuroda ver Nova : over (if he stays in the rotation) Rivera: over
G. Love April 4th, 2012 at 5:38 pm
Brett,
They just demoted Cervelli to AAA. Any trade value he had has now dropped by 50%.
*******
I think that’s overblown. He’ll bet more AB’s in AAA so if an NL team considers him a starter then the trade value is still there. Catchers who can run and play small-ball have value for NL clubs.
He’s worth a solid – late inning reliever. He’s maybe even worth a good lefty.
================================================
not when he is a foul tip away…
I hate the Phelps move; it will be Noesi all over again. What good is he going to do us as the long man – and even if they wanted to trade him, how are they going to get anything for him if he’s not starting? He’ll hardly pitch – it’s just a total waste of assets.
Cashman : “We’re scanning”
What the eff are you Cashman, a photocopier ?
The Yankees signed right-hander Ramon Ortiz, Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com tweets. The Giants recently released the 39-year-old Praver/Shapiro client.
Ortiz appeared in 22 games for the Cubs last year, posting a 4.86 ERA with 6.8 K/9 and 3.0 BB/9 in 33 1/3 innings. The 11-year MLB veteran also made 16 starts at Triple-A, completing 99 1/3 innings with the Iowa Cubs. The Yankees acquired catcher Chris Stewart from the Giants earlier today.
Jerkface April 4th, 2012 at 5:38 pm
With Romine on the way as a backup (he’s looking that way right now),
–
Romine has a bad back, out for a couple months to a while.
*********
Bret The Hitman April 4th, 2012 at 5:36 pm
Romine will be ready to backup next year I bet. I doubt his back is broken.
“He’ll hardly pitch – it’s just a total waste of assets.”
Phelps will pitch more than Clay Rapada.
Nick, gotta get my picks in.
I did very well last season (over Cano RBI was my big one)
Kontos was the last AAA RHP on the 40 man. Its just throwing away perfectly good depth to create depth where its not necessary.
Next on the agenda?
Opening night starting pitcher for Empire State Yankees is:
envelope please.
Manny DelCarmen.
Phelps will pitch more than Clay Rapada.
–
That’ll be great if the Yankees think he is a reliever. Not so great if he is a starter.
Swisher over HR sounds good.
Nick isn’t gonna tank in a contract year.
YT-
Kick TB’s a*s.
Embarass Maddon.
Kuroda wins too… I’ll be placing that shortly.
Nick, if you liked AJ over 12 last season you gotta like Huroki.
Deadline for wagers is 8pm PDT
What-no comment on the Yankees signing of 39 yo Ramon Martinez, who had one season when at age 29, his ERA was <4.0.
“That’ll be great if the Yankees think he is a reliever. Not so great if he is a starter.”
I have no issue with Phelps. I think he’ll be valuable in the pen.
I think he’ll be valuable in the pen.
–
If they use him like Noesi, probably not.
Cory Wade is on a short leash.
Feel that Cory.
That’s the AAA dogs nippin’ at your heels.
Better step up.
What trade value does Cervelli have? Can’t hit, not good defensively and is concussion prone.
————————————————————————–
If the Mets can get Maxwell it would be a good move for them.
Ok, so essentially, Cashman traded Kontos for Stewart and Ortiz.
There, I feel better.
?
Wade bombed this spring. He’s the guy the Yankees could look to replace by trading Cervelli.
I’m predicting that Kuroda has the most wins amongst the Yankee starters…………………………………….by the end of April!
YT-
I’m predicting that some of your predictions will be wrong.
I’m predicting that Kuroda has the most wins amongst the Yankee starters…………………………………….by the end of April!
–
Thats good, because I’m going to his start so I hope to see a win
“Kontos was the last AAA RHP on the 40 man. Its just throwing away perfectly good depth to create depth where its not necessary.”
That’s my take on it. Stewart is awful – they could have found someone of his ilk for free.
Martin is going to be run into the ground now that we have an awful backup. Then again, he does seem to be Girardi’s kind of catcher – a .100 hitter who throws out runners!
MTU-
Before long we can have Mitchell replacing Wade, and Warren replacing Nova if he’s off to a bad start.
YT-
I can see the Mitchell part.
You can forget the Nova part.
Kontos could have replaced Wade.
They thinned their RH reliever depth unnecesserily for a guy gone in a month. They didn’t trade Doug Bernier for him – they traded a young, solid RHP that could provide depth.
We’re one Soriano/Robertson injury away from being very thin in the RHP department.
We’re one Soriano/Robertson injury away from being very thin in the RHP department.
–
And the guys that seem ticketed to fill the gap should be starters.
I predict that the predictions are gonna keep coming on LoHud.
Hopefully Norton and some guys in AA get off to good starts.
I think the only way a NL team can get Maxwell is if they trade for him, because the Twins or Orioles with the worst 2011 AL record might snap him up.
So Phelps is the long man, Warren/Mitchell might replace Wade, etc.
Pretty soon, Betances will be in the mix for the “Joba role” if another righty gets injured
I’ll trade you Maxwell for House and a good cup of coffee.
Is Tim Norton healthy and pitching? He was one outing away from getting a call-up last season before suffering an injury, if I remember correctly.
Perspective: Sox just named Alfredo Aceves their closer and Yanks are freaking out because if Wade tanks, Kontos won’t be there to replace him.
Meanwhile the Yankees have Cervelli who could easily be traded for a reliever FAR better than Kontos.
Just sayin’
edit: Yanks fans are freaking out.
Color me confused on this one. Stewart has a career .328 OBP in the minors, and .273 in the majors. How he’s an upgrade over Cervelli in any way is beyond me. If this was made to cover the catcher position at AAA since Austin Romine will start the season on the DL, well, it still doesn’t seem to make much sense. Kontos seems like a useful piece. Couldn’t the Yankees have found a .273 OBP catcher who cost a bit less?
From RAB,Mike axisa.
Hey. Why complain ? Noesi got ya’ Campos.
Phelps will get ya’ …… ?
I am definitely bullish on Kuroda and Arod.
I won’t be taking any negative positions, but I won’t put action on every prop.
Folks are selling Stewart short. He’ll do the job of backup well.
Bret, I wouldn’t be surprised if cervelli was traded, and for bullpen help. With a few exceptions, these guys are all trade chips. And, i really don’t think going to AAA is going to change anyone’s view of him.
George Kontos may be a nice kid, but no one is going to miss him. Let’s get real.
Hey. Why complain ? Noesi got ya’ Campos.
–
And if they keep trading guys who are ready but can’t play a part in the current yankees due to mishandling for guys that are 3 years away, they’ll run out of players.
The Yankees were clearly waiting until the last minute waiver wire for a catcher. They evidently believed Stewart was better than anyone else available.
Kontos was going to do nothing more than be a AAA reliever for his career with the Yankees. He does not have an upside that I could see unless he develops another pitch. Neither his fastball or his slider look that good to me.
Stewart did throw out 38 per cent last year. Running is becoming more important and Cervelli can’t throw anyone out. At least, that must be the rationale.
He’ll do the job of backup well.
–
Half of it.
Jerk face- who on the team would you have Noesi replace?
JF-
It was a joke. Hence the smiley face.
Nick,
like ARods totals too. I assume you also get the “minimum 130 games played / 25 starts made” protection plan.
Joe from Long Island,
For real.
The Mariners would have traded Michael Pineda to the Blue Jays for Brett Lawrie and another prospect,Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun reports. One executive tells Elliott that “Toronto said no at Lawrie.”
Hello everyone,
Another questionable move. Not for the player himself (Stewart), but for what we gave up for him. Kontos was a good option to Wade, in case he can’t repeat 2011 numbers. Bad process, gross overpaid for a guy you find a dozen for a dime.
About Cervelli, well they are both basically the same type of players. Cervi with a little better offensive approach And little worse on defense, compared to Stewart.
About Phelps, well I am happy for him that he made the team. But I think he was the best alternative of the three to spot start. A waste of talent, I would have used Mitchell and his two seamer.
About Pettitte, he topped at 86……Any thoughts about how his stuff looked?
http://web.yesnetwork.com/medi.....yesnetwork
Video of pettittes inning.
“What-no comment on the Yankees signing of 39 yo Ramon Martinez, who had one season when at age 29, his ERA was <4.0."
My reaction was: scan harder, Brian.
Woah there Joe from Long Island, I’ve been upset about losing Kontos since he was supposed to be part of the Nady/Marte trade in 2008, I’m sure as hell not going to stop now!
Kontos was going to do nothing more than be a AAA reliever for his career with the Yankees.
–
He was the last guy they might call up for relief on the 40 man. He had a 2.62 ERA in AAA in 90 innings. 3.5 k:bb. He doesn’t have to be a top prospect to be useful. And essentially giving him away is counter productive.
Nova, Wade, Garcia, Rapada, Logan, Phelps can all be replaced by Noesi
Jerk- how many games do you believe the Yankees will lose because of want of Cervelli’s bat?
If Martin gets hurt for a period of time, do they call up Cervelli to start over Stewart? Is Stewart a BUC only for days off for Martin?
Clippard was supposed to be a throwaway too.
McCutchen was supposed to be a throwaway
Melancon was supposed to be mediocre reliever with no control
Dunn was supposed to be out of the league by now
Veras was supposed to be out of the league
etc.
Kontos is a hell of a lot more valuable than Stewart is. It’s not about ‘missing’ him, it’s about a poor allocation of resources.
I am thrilled about the Yankees signing Ramon Ortiz. If he can duplicate the game I saw him pitch in 2002, they are on to something.
That’s foe those in need of a comment.
My real thoughts are Ortiz must have a rubber arm and he must love to play. I am as likely to pitch in the bigs for the Yankees.
I think I will go on record as “This will be very good for Cervelli as it will bring him out of the BU mode”. The last few games last year before the concussion Cervelli was hitting the ball with a lot more authority including HRs.
Cervelli was never given a chance and seemed to accept his defined role. He effectively went from A ball to the Majors and then wound up with the broken wrist. I’m not much on forecasts but I think there is more there. I would not be at all surprised if this gets him out of his comfort zone and he develops into more than a BU catcher.
If he dedicates himself, I’d bet on Cervelli at this time. I don’t think he’s that far away. It’s the perception of him that’s skewed. Some extended playing time should do wonders for his numbers.
Jerk face- who on the team would you have Noesi replace?
–
Its not like that. The Yankees tried to trade Nova the year before twice, and he ended up being a big piece for them last year. Guys like Nova/Garcia/Colon are not around to replace anyone, but if they get their shot and do well you can generate lots of value. And having more guys on the Nova side than the Colon side (in terms of long term future value and cost controlledness) is preferable.
Phelps, Mitchell, Warren are all ready for the bigs right? You might be able to trade them for something now. But if you wait, and they get a shot at the majors and do well you might be able to double their return or even find out that you had a stud overlooked all along. Misusing them creates situations where the better move IS to trade them because they won’t be able to help you that season. The Yankees were committed to stashing Noesi in AAA because he simply didnt have the innings they wanted, by their own misuse!
40-man roster management has never been the Yankees strong suit.
BD, yes, 130 games played or 25 starts. That’s why my Hughes and Arod bets were No Action last season. The Pineda 12.5 wins prop has already been voided since he won’t be on the Opening Day roster.
Thanks Ron,
A showed a very nice cutter
Whoa yourself, Nick.
I’m sipping some no-name single malt from Speyside, that’s pretty smooth. It puts me in just the right mood to discuss the Yanks’ moves involving a couple of guys who will be trivia questions years from now.
I fully realize that these are good kids, who are busting their guts to make a ml roster, let alone the Yankees, but, that’s what these kids are.
It’s why I don’t begrudge players from getting what they can.
Jerk- how many games do you believe the Yankees will lose because of want of Cervelli’s bat?
–
100. no playoffs this year. These questions are besides the point. The Yankees can option Cervelli whatever, its the manner in which they created the situation to option him that is disappointing from a fan point of view. The fan point of view being one interested in all the workings of the organization and how they are making decisions.
Yanks 27,
Other than perhaps Clippard, who among those you listed would have much of a Yankee role?
Mac-
“I am as likely to pitch in the bigs for the Yankees.”
If you do get a shot be sure not to wear your Kilt.
Cashman’s plan – run Martin into the ground, knowing he has a crappy backup that Girardi won’t want to play often, so when Martin goes on the DL, Cervelli can be the everyday catcher!
JF,
your last post is spot on.
Other than perhaps Clippard, who among those you listed would have much of a Yankee role?
–
Melancon. Dunn.
Jerk- spoken like a true general manager wannabe.
At least you are sincere and thoughtful in your beliefs.
spoken like a true general manager wannabe.
–
If any team wants to pay me the big bux to wheel and deal I’ll take it
Luis-
Check your inbox Amigo.
If Cashman needs a reliever at the deadline, he will turn one of his starters into one.
That’s how he rolls. It’s why Phelps is going to be pitching 2 innings a week i mop up like Neosi did.
Jerkface,
I have to believe the Yankees would listen to offers on the AAA vets. I have never heard one whisper of an interest in them. It doesn’t look to me they have a satisfactory trade value. If that is true, they must be used in the majors in some way before their rights are lost.
I think Phelps is about as ready as he will ever be. It is time to get something for their investment.
“The Mariners would have traded Michael Pineda to the Blue Jays for Brett Lawrie and another prospect,Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun reports. One executive tells Elliott that “Toronto said no at Lawrie.””
Of course they did….nobody trades young elite bats……well almost nobody.
Kontos is a hell of a lot more valuable than Stewart is. It’s not about ‘missing’ him, it’s about a poor allocation of resources.
___________________________________
Define resources?
Isn’t “resources”, in this case, something that is unlikely to impact even a single win during the Yankees 162 game schedule.
There is always a simple litmus test in cases like these.
Ask the critics how much it’s going to matter to the Yankees bottom line.
In lieu of an answer you’ll ALWAYS get back a defensive response about it being about decision making. As if decision making exists in a vacuum.
Why, if this is a legitimate issue, can’t someone answer a simple legitimate question – how many wins will this cost the Yankees?
Anyone gonna man up?
Hi MTU!,
So you got it, ok…I haven’ check it out, I will do so though.
Blake-
The Brew Crew traded him for Shawn Marcum.
. If that is true, they must be used in the majors in some way before their rights are lost.
–
They got 3 more years of control on Phelps, Mitchell, 4 on Warren. They do not have to go away any time soon. And maybe they have an Ivan Nova in that group, and wouldn’t that trade value be lovely? They are creating situations where the players that they hit on cannot be traded (because they simply don’t have enough of them) but those are the guys that have the most trade value. And the guys that they misuse or do not hit on will be given up for less than their value because they don’t get a shot.
“Of course they did….nobody trades young elite bats……well almost nobody.”
Sigh.
29 GMs got the memo. Cash was probably too busy jumping off buildings during Christmas.
Indeed Luis.
Indeed.
“The Brew Crew traded him for Shawn Marcum.”
Yea…that was before he proved himself in the big leagues…..but that was really dumb anyway…..
Blake-
I guess so.
If any team wants to pay me the big bux to wheel and deal I’ll take it.
————————————
Stan Kasten, got his start by offering Ted Turner to work for free at age 27 and was named the GM of the Atlanta Hawks.
Now he’s worth big $$$$.
JF- Go to Hal with an offer he can’t refuse.
These questions are besides the point.
____________________
They ARE the point.
Yankees fans have become so jaded towards winning, now the predominant fixation among fans is the inner workings of how they win.
As of winning and how they go about it are unrelated.
“Yeah, but I don’t LIKE they WAY they win 96 games every year.”
This, above all things, has become the LoHud mantra.
JF needs to be running the Sabremetric Dep’t. @ the Yankees.
Stewart could cost them a couple of games.
A.) He can’t hit at all. 0. An automatic out. He will inevitably find himself in big spots and won’t deliver, losing close games on getaway day when the team usually sleep walks through games
B.) Martin is going to be run into the ground. He will be playing 6/7 games. He will likely be pinch hitting/catching during off-days. He is injury prone and needs a solid backup to give him some time off. By him going on the DL, the Cervelli/Stewart tandem will be below average. Cervelli is great as a situational player, not as a starter.
So, based on that, I’d say it is not unreasonable for Stewart to cost them 3-5 games, obviously, pro-rated based on how long he is on the team, and I give it a month before Cashman realizes his mistake and ditches him for Cervelli. So in the 1st month he’ll be here, probably a game.
Have a great night. Time for dinner
Why, if this is a legitimate issue, can’t someone answer a simple legitimate question – how many wins will this cost the Yankees?
–
The Yankees used a bunch of shoddy relievers last year. Buddy Carlyle, Scott Proctor, Raul Valdes, Sergio Mitre, amauri Sanit, Jeff Marquez, Kevin Whelan, Steve Garrison, Aaron laffey.
Together they worth about -2 wins. So if you can use Kontos instead of that revolving door of suck, and he is just average, then you net 2 wins.
So this move cost the Yankees 2 wins. (or more, as Chris Stewart will be worth negative wins on offense!)
Go to Hal with an offer he can’t refuse
–
Hm If I come GM of the Empire State Yankees, can I make trades?
Joe, that Speyside sounds pretty good. I might sip on some Lagavulin or Caol Ila to toast the start of tbe season in a couple hours. Cheers!
“The Mariners would have traded Michael Pineda to the Blue Jays for Brett Lawrie and another prospect,Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun reports. One executive tells Elliott that “Toronto said no at Lawrie.””
Of course they did….nobody trades young elite bats……well almost nobody.
__________________________
January called. They don’t even want this back. January says it was tedious even then.
YT-
What’s for dinner ?
Yankees fans have become so jaded towards winning, now the predominant fixation among fans is the inner workings of how they win.
–
More like some people are interested in how teams operate and look at that aspect of competition as well. You think having a crappily run team is fun? Ask fans of the white sox or the dodgers.
So this move cost the Yankees 2 wins. (or more, as Chris Stewart will be worth negative wins on offense!)
______________________
Okay, now we’re getting someplace.
So what was your prediction for Yankees wins yesterday, and what is it today?
So what was your prediction for Yankees wins yesterday, and what is it today?
–
100 – 2 + X, where X is future moves.
JF does better research and makes better points than a lot of folks that get paid to write about the game….if we coukd get him on the analytical end and Randy running the fat and out of shape camp then wed be in business….CB could help ….JAP and YF could work in scouting…..and MTU and I would cover food and entertainment.
They ARE the point.
Yankees fans have become so jaded towards winning, now the predominant fixation among fans is the inner workings of how they win.
As of winning and how they go about it are unrelated.
“Yeah, but I don’t LIKE they WAY they win 96 games every year.”
This, above all things, has become the LoHud mantra
———-
Have you ever read another sports blog?
The Knicks, one of the worst sports franchises of the past 10 years had their fans occupied for weeks with whether Patrick Ewing Jr should make the team as the 15th man last year.
stewart 39%
cervelli 14%
that’s the story
cervelli needs to get his throwing back to acceptable major league level.
More like some people are interested in how teams operate and look at that aspect of competition as well. You think having a crappily run team is fun?
________________________________
Are you say the Yankees have been run crappily?
Yes or no?
The constant winning is a non-factor in this determination?
Blake-
I like my new role.
Thanks.
Go to any baseball blog today and you’ll find conversation about the 25th man on the roster.
This constant stuff about only Yankee fans!!! is so self serving.
“You think having a crappily run team is fun?”
“100 – 2 + X, where X is future moves.”
__________________________________
CAN’T. RECONCILE.
Are you say the Yankees have been run crappily?
Yes or no?
The constant winning is a non-factor in this determination?
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Certain departments of the Yankees yes. The farm system was run down for a while. The yankees have always had trouble with pitching. They have not developed many good players in the past decade. Their willingness to spend has certainly helped them cover these issues.
They are moving in the right direction. Obviously enough people care about the running of a baseball team that Cashman getting ‘full autonomy’ was big news.
Of course being AJ’s almost exclusive catcher didn’t hurt Cervelli’s numbers.
CAN’T. RECONCILE.
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X = -50
(because they traded 25 kontosis)
So, according to Face this simple transaction cost The NY Yankees 2 wins ???? Yeah of course it did…..Unreal
LGY,
There isn’t a professional sports franchise (minus perhaps the Pats) that can match the track record of the NYY the last 18 years.
If what you’re arguing is that Yankees fans can’t be expected to take that into consideration. The no confidence can be derived from a record of success. That fans can’t be expected to learn from the overreactions of the past that had little to no consequences. That a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately indignation is wisely applied to the 25th on the roster and AAA depth…
…then I concede the point.
Fans are stupid and lacking perspective by rule.
You win.
MTU,
WOW!….You do have a talent with pictures!….I thought it was a museum, but to see the actual paintings reproduced in the real world is amazing, thanks for sharing them. those photos are something else.
So, according to Face this simple transaction cost The NY Yankees 2 wins ???? Yeah of course it did…..Unreal
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Its the butterfly effect, or the kontos effect.
JF said Gustavo Molina would cost them wins last season as well.
Luis-
I thought you might like them.
Con much gusto.
JF said Gustavo Molina would cost them wins last season as well.
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They did lose 1 game because of ole Gustavo. Luckily they were smart enough to get rid of him right quick.
They lost 50% of the games he started. Do you really want the Yankees to become a .500 team? Just say Gusta-no!
Pat M- take it from Nick and me – the best way to take this, sometimes, is a with a good single malt Scotch whisky.
“They did lose 1 game because of ole Gustavo.”
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He played in 3 games and they won 2 of them (yes, I know the details
)
The game the Yanks lost was a blown save by Soriano (2run HR to Konerko)
so you could argue that Soriano cost them that game, but not as much with Gustavo. Yanks can’t expect to win too many games when they only have 4 hits…. yes yes, I know… Cervelli would have had 3 hits and 2 RBI that game
but yeah, no argument – less Gustavo is best.
less Stewart is best.
but then, what team wants their backup catcher playing more than they need to?
Stuckey
So you think Yankee fans can’t be like normal fans and discuss every move their team makes?
People discuss this stuff because it interests them.
You should understand this the best as someone has repeatedly said you love the offseason.
To be fair, I don’t think it’s going to cost the Yankees a game or two. Cervelli is not that important, but it was a poor usage of resources IMO. Kontos could actually have role on this team.
Yanks can’t expect to win too many games when they only have 4 hits…. yes yes, I know… Cervelli would have had 3 hits and 2 RBI that game
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Montero would have had 3 HRs and 10 RBI in that game. Gustavo probably called the HR pitch even after Soriano shook off it.
Speaking of Soriano, how many wins does he add? Can I be annoyed that they had a perfectly good Kontos for league minimum but are wasting 11 million on Soriano?
No one is spelling doom from this move. While largely inconsequential it is the biggest news of the day.
The Yankees made it and people are voicing their opinion.
This is what fans do.
Of course they did….nobody trades young elite bats……well almost nobody.
******
Except for the Brewers (Lawrie for Marcum), Reds (Alonso and Grandal for Latos), Adrian Gonzales, Carlos Gonzales, Miguel Cabrera, Carlos Santana Adam Jones(from Seattle to Baltimore) verdict still out on Matt Joyce,
Brazilian dancers and Jose Feliciano.
If that doesn’t scream baseball, then what does?
Except for the Brewers (Lawrie for Marcum), Reds (Alonso and Grandal for Latos), Adrian Gonzales, Carlos Gonzales, Miguel Cabrera, Carlos Santana Adam Jones(from Seattle to Baltimore) verdict still out on Matt Joyce,
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Minors. Minors. 1 year 1B. Minors. Money. Idiot Dodgers. Minors.
All bad examples. Lawrie the unproven minor league hitter is worth Shawn Marcum. Lawrie the .293 .373 .580 .953 third baseman is too valuable for MICHAEL PINEDA?
JF,
LOL……I do agree the Soriano signing was bogus at best, but it wasn’t the FO office fault.Levine, just forced it up their throats. But giving away a nice prospects, who could actually have a role on the team and adds important depth traded for a BUC is bad management of resources.
Doc Joe….I think you’re right about the single malt……Now I have concerns about the $ 280.00 I placed on the Bombers to win more than 93 wins……
I placed on the Bombers to win more than 93 wins……
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God help you if they trade Melky Mesa
Jerkface April 4th, 2012 at 7:03 pm
Except for the Brewers (Lawrie for Marcum), Reds (Alonso and Grandal for Latos), Adrian Gonzales, Carlos Gonzales, Miguel Cabrera, Carlos Santana Adam Jones(from Seattle to Baltimore) verdict still out on Matt Joyce,
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Minors. Minors. 1 year 1B. Minors. Money. Idiot Dodgers. Minors.
All bad examples. Lawrie the unproven minor league hitter is worth Shawn Marcum. Lawrie the .293 .373 .580 .953 third baseman is too valuable for MICHAEL PINEDA?
==========================
Yup but someone else wasn’t too valuable for him.
Toronto had right though, they have made very good and shrewd moves lately.
LGY,
it’s been 3 minutes, why don’t you tell us again what fans do?
Pat- I think your money is safe.
Ali not looking good good.
Time for dinner….
“Except for the Brewers (Lawrie for Marcum), Reds (Alonso and Grandal for Latos), Adrian Gonzales, Carlos Gonzales, Miguel Cabrera, Carlos Santana Adam Jones(from Seattle to Baltimore) verdict still out on Matt Joyce,”
Yes….all bad examples….all are either unproven….about to become free agents…..or happened so long ago that it isn’t relevant to what’s going on in todays game…..you think the Brewers wouldn’t love to have that trade back….how about the Santana deal?
“If they use him like Noesi, probably not.”
~
speaking of Hector, in his final spring tune-up today…
7IP – 7H – 1ER – 0BB – 3K vs. the Rox (I had no idea Jason Giambi was still playing!)
Next stop – Yu in Arlington.
blake,
is Montero proven?
(I mean, don’t get me wrong… just playing devil’s advocate)
Miami with the huge Ali blunder. Turning what should have been a joyous spectacle into a depressing atrocity.
Joe-
What’s for dinner ?
I’m hungry.
Later guys.
The other issue is that if the Yankees had Mat Latos or Shawn Marcum, they wouldn’t trade them.
Not worth it getting our panties on a twist over the BUC. Kontos had no future here. Stewart is better defensively.
I loved the comment about Cervelli or Stewart being up in an important at bat. Like they wouldn’t pinch hit for him?
If Noesi outduels Yu against that Tex lineup in Arlington… that’ll be quite a nice start to his Seattle career for sure.
So, the Kontos trade means no more players from the Sheffield trade?
No wonder Kontos was mortified today. He may have been the next RHP reliever, but doesn’t mean he would be the first call up for the bullpen.
I feel for Cervelli and he was a good situational hitter, but I love the fact that Stewart is reputed to be a good defensive backstop.
Get well soon Romine.
And Boone, this better be a short term deal. I dint like putting a hobbled player on the active roster.
is Montero proven?
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They had a player like the one traded. They do not have the type of player that is traded to acquire that kind of player. They were on the opposite end of that deal. Not to mention that none of them guys were top 10 prospects.
The Yankees aren’t trading David Phelps for the next Brett Lawrie…
BD (Boston Dave) April 4th, 2012 at 7:09 pm
blake,
is Montero proven?
(I mean, don’t get me wrong… just playing devil’s advocate)
====================
BD,
Is it devil’s advocate or a devil of an advocate ?
Like they wouldn’t pinch hit for him?
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Cervelli has 120 PA with RISP, so apparently not.
So, the Kontos trade means no more players from the Sheffield trade?
No wonder Kontos was mortified today.
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Is this like one of those death clubs like the flying hellfish? Maybe Kontos was this close to getting the nazi treasure.
Yonder Alonso is probably the best case ….and he was a victim of circumstances …..he can’t play anywhere but 1B….and was with a club that can’t use the DH and already had a 1B they liked enough to give 225 million to……they had to choose between Votto and Alonso and they took the proven player.
There is a clear trend in baseball right now of teams trying to keep their young position players….
I don’t see any of the news today as being even remotely important. We are talking about backups and role players at best. We should be headed for 95 + wins with a deep rotation, stellar hitting and a an ace pen.
Maybe he shouldn’t have opened the lost ark.
LGY,
it’s been 3 minutes, why don’t you tell us again what fans do?
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I’d rather read more psychoanalysis of big bad Yankee fans.
randy l. April 4th, 2012 at 6:30 pm
stewart 39%
cervelli 14%
that’s the story
cervelli needs to get his throwing back to acceptable major league level.
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This time randy is right.
I don’t buy the depth excuse.
JF,
I agree – just not sure that saying Lawrie was unproven so he ‘doesn’t count’ is fair.
You could argue that at the time of the trade Pineda was far more valuable than Marcum at the time of his trade as well.
Alas…
two more days and we can have real games to talk about.
“So you think Yankee fans can’t be like normal fans and discuss every move their team makes?”
Of course they can.
I’m advocating if nothing else, self-awareness.
“People discuss this stuff because it interests them.”
You have it only half-right, which is and always has been and always will be, my point.
People get up-in-arms, indignant, and hypercritical because THAT interests them.
Are you aware of talk radio?
Do you observe the simple math of situation like Pineda’s last start where fans suddenly show up out of the woodwork, the post counts rise dramatically, and the energy-level (what you call “interest”) spikes?
Why, because more than anything else, sports fans LOVE to be pissed off at the people run their teams, because it scratches that itch that they know as well or better.
I’m a simple guy with modest expectations. I don’t REALLY expect anyone to change their behavior. I’d be satisfied with simply recognizing it for what it is.
You can argue that fans are interested in transactions, but what they’re REALLY interested in is transaction they don’t like, because it gives them a chance to do what really, REALLY interests them – which is to complain and assign blame.
THAT’s the national past-time.
Which is maybe appropriate for some teams. The Jets and Knicks certainly come to mind.
But the Yankees..?
Isn’t it necessary to acknowledge then that actual success just doesn’ t matter?
“There is a clear trend in baseball right now of teams trying to keep their young position players….”
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Sure, but aren’t they also trying to keep their young pitching prospects?
It seems to me the trend is that teams are trying to keep ALL of the prospects/young players they can.
Two more days and we can real games to argue about.
There I fixed that for ya’
No need to thank me.
“is Montero proven?”
I didn’t mention Montero
but…..no not yet….but he’s about as sure a thing offensively as you see prospect wise…..and as some or the other deals like Lawrie have shown….its not always wise to deal those guys that are good and have 6 years of cheap team control
from earlier, in case yankeefeminista is around
“PCL is death to pitchers.”
~
Indeed.
Maybe “the big three” will skip Tacoma and go directly to The Safe (when the time comes)
for now, look out Southern League!
http://tinyurl.com/82sfcfa
I agree – just not sure that saying Lawrie was unproven so he ‘doesn’t count’ is fair.
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It is, because thats the point. Every good hitter in the majors was a prospect at some time. So of course the Yankees could get a prospect that turns into a good hitter. The point is that no established hitter is being traded. Latos had 400 very good major league innings. Marcum was coming off a very good year. Carlos Gonzalez was traded for Matt Holliday.
Lawrie had no MLB PAs when he was traded. Now that he showed he can hit, the Jays would not trade him for Michael Pineda???????? They don’t think they want that Pineda fastball/slider combo? They’d rather have the young good hitter…
The Yankees do not have a Matt Holliday to trade (and they wouldn’t trade him). They do not have a Shawn Marcum or Mat Latos to trade (and they wouldn’t trade them).
Its just silliness to keep pointing to these trades that the Yankees can’t make as proof they could get a young bat eventually. With what? How? The pieces that were traded to acquire them before they were proven are the pieces the Yankees are fighting so hard to acquire. And if they are established they are impossible to acquire.
“Sure, but aren’t they also trying to keep their young pitching prospects?”
Not as much…..there were a ton of pitchers dealt this winter…..Latos, Gio, Pineda, Parker, Cole, etc……
You could argue that at the time of the trade Pineda was far more valuable than Marcum at the time of his trade as well.
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Yea so Pineda was more valuable, but NOT VALUABLE ENOUGH to acquire Lawrie? How does this make sense.
There is a clear trend in baseball right now of teams trying to keep their young position players….
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And a majority of the guys that make it through are first baseman
So, the Kontos trade means no more players from the Sheffield trade?
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Kontos was drafted by the Yankees.
“I agree – just not sure that saying Lawrie was unproven so he ‘doesn’t count’ is fair.
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It is, because thats the point. Every good hitter in the majors was a prospect at some time. So of course the Yankees could get a prospect that turns into a good hitter. The point is that no established hitter is being traded. ”
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JF,
Wasn’t the source of that argument the Montero trade? I could have mistaken that part.
Cant believe you guys got your eyes off the ball. The only reason Cash made this move is to
get you divert us from the main subject. MONTERO!!!
Seriously. Alot of us wanted Cervelli off the team last year when he couldnt hit and fell in love with playing catch with Grandy rather than Jete and Canyo. Id rather have a guy who we know cant hit but at least has half of what we need at the catchers position not 0%. No points for the hypnotizing eyes.
And a majority of the guys that make it through are first baseman
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Montero was NOT an OF or 3b or SS prospect – he is at best a BUC/DH – with maybe 1b potential down the road – how is he any different that what becomes available – and do NOT say you could trade him for an OF or 3b or SS prospect b/c most teams can already find the DH/1B type bat he offers. . . . .
Man i would have loved to land lawrie.
I would bounce arod to dh in a ny minute.
I would of easily traded montero for him.
he is at best a BUC/DH how is he any different that what becomes available
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A guy who can catch and mash is incredibly valuable. If they had to trade him because they cannot play him due to ~too many old people~ how is acquiring a 1B going to remedy it?
“Yea so Pineda was more valuable, but NOT VALUABLE ENOUGH to acquire Lawrie? How does this make sense.”
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Toronto didn’t feel they needed a young pitcher as much? They have young pitching and don’t need to compete to win the WS every season? Or they don’t think highly of Pineda? who knows…
You can certainly argue that the Yanks needed Montero more than Pineda. I don’t care what players Toronto feels they need or don’t need.
These reports that come out after trades are done are a joke.
Yanks felt they needed a legit #2 to win the WS. They rolled the dice that Pineda would be that guy. Stay tuned.
Lawrie had no MLB PAs when he was traded.
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Lawrie is a former first round pick – to say he was under the radar shows either you do not know much about prospects form other teams or you are just trying to find a distinction to support your argument that is baseless. Lawrie was a catcher when drafted – then converted to infielder and a fast riser out of Canada before he was drafted – anyone who follows the amateur draft would know this. . . .
Wasn’t the source of that argument the Montero trade? I could have mistaken that part.
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One of the conceits is that Montero is going to mash. To get a hitter like Montero they’d have to trade something they don’t have before they are even proven.
Lawrie is a former first round pick – to say he was under the radar shows either you do not know much about prospects form other teams or you are just trying to find a distinction to support your argument that is baseless. Lawrie was a catcher when drafted – then converted to infielder and a fast riser out of Canada before he was drafted – anyone who follows the amateur draft would know this. . . .
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I know who Brett Lawrie is. That he was a high pick or well thought of has nothing to do with the fact that when he was traded he was an unproven minor leaguer. A top 50 prospect, sure, but a guy with uncertain defense who was OPSing .800 in AA. You can’t get Brett Lawrie with major league PA’s and a nice OPS for Shawn Marcum. You can only get the hope of that.
Plus – you still have not answered the Alonso/Grandal trade for Matt Latos – so what that Latos pitched in San Diego – the point is pitching for young hitters does happen – and whether the Yankees have someone to match trading a Matt Latos – considering they have done in the AL East versus the comfortable confines of Petco field – yeah – Nova and even Hughes match up better at this point – heck – the Yankees did not even go after Latos b/c of the concerns of bringing another NL pitcher over. 400 innings in the NL West is not the same as 170-200 innings in the AL East – not by a long shot. . . .
Yanks felt they needed a legit #2 to win the WS. They rolled the dice that Pineda would be that guy. Stay tuned.
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+1 BD.
The Yankees should trade Nova, but sorry, Hughes does not have the same value as Mat Latos, who has 4 years of control and has 400 innings of very excellent peripherals. If you put too much emphasis on NL/NL West/Wherever then eventually you’ll get down to only players that play for the Yankees are worth having because we know they can pitch here.
If you knew anything about Mat Latos you wouldn’t be pulling those lame ass ‘NL pitcher’ arguments out here.
And I love the logic that Carlos Gonzales for Matt Holliday does not count (says who??? and what authority) – the contention is that young hitting does not become available via trade – well it does. . . .
And say it again – the argument that all that is available are young DH/1B types like a Fielder, etc. – ignores that that is what Montero is – a DH/1B at best position wise – at worst – a pure DH with no defensive contributions. What team is going to give up a young elite hitter at a premium defensive position like 3b, SS, or OF for that – AND IT IS ON THAT LOGIC that the arguments fail that Montero could have been used to trade for a young bat!
“Plus – you still have not answered the Alonso/Grandal trade for Matt Latos –”
Yes I did…..I said that was somewhat of a special case because Alonso can’t play anywhere but 1B and he was on a team with no DH where he was blocked by Joey Votto.
Mat Latos is a hard throwing righty with 4 pitches who doesn’t walk guys and strikes guys out. If Nova puts up 180 good innings this year, maybe he will have as much value as Mat Latos, but are the Yankees trading a guy they know can start for minor league maybe bats?
Wherever then eventually you’ll get down to only players that play for the Yankees are worth having because we know they can pitch here.
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Ahhh no – they would go after pitchers that are tested in the AL, preferably AL East, before considering the NL. It is why the Yankees did not pursue Matt Latos – even though they could have. The evidence is in the Yanks deciding to go after Pienda instead of Latos. . . .
And I love the logic that Carlos Gonzales for Matt Holliday does not count (says who??? and what authority) – the contention is that young hitting does not become available via trade – well it does. .
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So the Yankees should trade Cano / Granderson at the ASB this year for Carlos Gonzalez? Or in the offseason? They won’t do it. This is unrealistic. The A’s were able to turn .600 OPS Carlos Gonzalez into Matt Holliday. And vice versa for the rockies. If the Yankees had Matt Holliday why do you think they would trade him?
The evidence is in the Yanks deciding to go after Pienda instead of Latos. . . .
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Yea and Pineda was a 1 for 1 (basically). But also an unproven AL West player enjoying the friendly confines of SafeCo as a flyball pitcher…
Same with Gio. A guy who enjoyed his confines as well. They have value.
Montero isn’t strictly a DH/1ST baseman he can catch a little. I’m not saying he’s going to stay there forever but it is a position he’s working on.