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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Postgame notes: “It’s miles different”

Posted by: vmercogliano - Posted in Misc on Apr 14, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

In many respects, it feels like déjà vu all over again. For the second consecutive season, Phil Hughes is facing questions about his effectiveness after some troubling results in his first few starts. But to Hughes and the rest of the Yankees, the issues that are causing him to struggle are much less alarming than they were in 2011.

“I was sort of in a similar situation results-wise, but stuff-wise it’s miles different,” Hughes said. “That’s one thing I can look back on and at least have something to work with. My fastball I feel like is good, it’s just a matter of executing that pitch.”

It’s true, Hughes is no longer facing questions about his lack of velocity. Based on the scoreboard readings, Hughes’ heater was sitting between 91-94 MPH — a far cry from the high 80′s that we saw at this time last season. The questions this time around are focused more on his efficiency and ability to put hitters away early in the count, which has kept him from giving the Yankees any sort of length in his first two starts.

“It’s attacking the zone,” Yankees manager Joe Girardi said. “I don’t really sense in Phil that he’s 2-0 and 3-1 on everybody; I don’t see that. It’s just when he gets ahead he’s missing, or they’re fouling balls off. To me, it’s just consistency in the quality of pitches that he’s throwing that will bring his pitch count down.”

• The puzzling thing about Hughes’ start is that it wouldn’t really be fair to say that he couldn’t put guys away. At times, his fastball showed some late life, and he did finish with six strikeouts in just 3 1/3 innings. But his pitch count had reached 84 by the time he was taken out, and he gave up six runs on eight hits — the biggest one being the three-run homer from Howie Kendrick that knocked him out of the game. “Just too many balls in the middle of the plate,” Hughes said. “I felt like my stuff was pretty good, I just wasn’t locating. I was hitting the glove, but not necessarily in the spot that I wanted to.”

• While I know that many of you are probably ready to have Hughes pulled out of the rotation, I’m pretty confident that he’s going to get a few more starts. David Phelps was very effective in relief of Hughes today, but Girardi pretty much shot down the idea of him becoming a starter. It sounds like he’s going to wait for Andy Pettitte and/or Michael Pineda to be ready before he considers making any changes. To be honest, I don’t think it would be the wisest move to make any decisions before then, either. A lot could change between now and then. “When you look at this kid, he’s been a starter his whole career, and that’s why we brought him as a long man,” Girardi said when asked about moving Phelps into the rotation. “Are we looking for him to make a start? No, but we’re looking for him to do what he did today – give us a chance to come back in games. In the future is he a starter for us? Maybe, but right now that’s not how we’re looking at him.”

• Phelps certainly deserves to be patted on the back for his performance today. He gave the Yankees 5 1/3 innings, allowing only one run on one hit — a solo homer to Vernon Wells in the top of the fifth to make it 7-0. He talked about making the adjustment from being a starter to a reliever. “The biggest thing for me is that I can’t get all four of my pitches ironed out in the bullpen,” he said. “I’ve got to get my two – the fastball and the slider – going. And once the game gets going, try to feel the others out as much as possible.”

• Phelps also spoke about what it was like facing his idol in Albert Pujols. Pujols was 0 for 3 against Phelps. “I’ve been rooting for him pretty much my whole life being from St. Louis, but he’s intimidating,” Phelps said. “You’ve got such a small margin of error, so I just go out there trying to bear down and make my pitches. I was pretty much leaving it in Russell’s hands. I wasn’t going to shake him. Whatever pitch he called, I was going to try and throw it with conviction.”

• While Phelps kept the Yankees in the game and gave them a chance to comeback, they were pitiful with runners in scoring position, going 1 for 11 in those situations. Robinson Cano picked up his first RBI with a single in the bottom of the fifth, but that would be the final Yankee hit of the game. Most of the blame will fall on the Yankees 3-4-5 hitters — Cano, A-Rod and Mark Teixeira — who have combined for just three RBI through eight games. “At times they’ve gone out of the zone for pitches, at times they’ve hit balls hard but foul, at times they’ve run into bad luck, so I think it’s been a little bit of everything,” Girardi said. “But you try not to make too much out of it, what’s this? Our eighth game. It’s a long season. Guys might only have 32 at-bats, and they’re going to have 600.”

• Angels starter C.J. Wilson got through six innings on 105 pitches, allowing one run on six hits with two walks and two strikeouts. He wasn’t overpowering, but he did make good pitches in big spots. One particular situation that comes to mind is when he jammed A-Rod inside and got him to hit a slow roller right after Cano’s RBI single. With him, Jered Weaver, Dan Haren and Ervin Santana, this could shape up to be a premier rotation. “He’s evolved as a pitcher over the last three or four years when he’s had a chance to start,” Angels manager Mike Scioscia said of Wilson. “He does have more things that he can do than a lot of guys on our staff and a lot of guys in baseball. He has stuff that’s going to go in on a righty, away from a righty and he can change speeds.”

• Keeping up his reputation as a Yankee-killer, Kendrick went 3 for 5 with a homer and three RBI.

• I’ll be back at Yankee Stadium tomorrow for the rubber game of this three-game set. Thanks for following along today! Hopefully, we’ll have a closer game tomorrow…

Associated Press photos

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502 Responses to “Postgame notes: “It’s miles different””

  1. Betsy April 14th, 2012 at 6:54 pm

    Good job, Vince!

    I’m glad Joe shot down the idea of Phelps to the rotation. Phil should remain in the rotation for as long as it takes for Andy/Pineda to be ready. If he’s not done well, then ok, but at least they can say they gave it a fair shot.

  2. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 6:57 pm

    thanks for your excellent fill in work Vincent.

    great job.

  3. Against All Odds April 14th, 2012 at 7:00 pm

    Hamels won’t be a Yankee next season.

  4. luis April 14th, 2012 at 7:01 pm

    Great post Vincent.

    After reading it, i must say that i agree with him, that no move should be done to the rotation until either Pineda and Pettitte are ready. But i satnd by my comment that i am reposting.

    luis April 14th, 2012 at 6:55 pm

    Hello everyone,

    Missed the start of the game and missed most of the middle innings as well, just saw one inning from Phelps and three from Hughes. My two cents:

    Hughes: had a good FB, better CB but in the innings i saw didn’t see many changes. The quality of his offerings is inconsistent, therefore his inability to put away the batters quickly.

    Phelps: He looked amazing period, 4 pitches with great command and pitchability. Even though in the inning i saw, he was squeezed big time by the ump. I think he struckout Aybar at least three times in one at bat.

    At this moment in time, i’ll say Phelps is the better pitcher.

  5. darbodla April 14th, 2012 at 7:11 pm

    Any judgment on Phelps after seven innings in relief makes zero sense. There is no book on him yet, hitters haven’t faced him over and over again. To say he is a better pitcher than any Yankee starter is just plain silly.

  6. Nick in SF April 14th, 2012 at 7:15 pm

    Not losing any ground to the Jays or Rays today thanks to Baltimore and Boston.

  7. luis April 14th, 2012 at 7:17 pm

    Nick in SF April 14th, 2012 at 7:15 pm

    Not losing any ground to the Jays or Rays today thanks to Baltimore and Boston.

    ======================

    Excellent news Nick. Did you read my comments two days ago about what place in South America to go?

  8. luis April 14th, 2012 at 7:23 pm

    darbodla April 14th, 2012 at 7:11 pm

    Any judgment on Phelps after seven innings in relief makes zero sense. There is no book on him yet, hitters haven’t faced him over and over again. To say he is a better pitcher than any Yankee starter is just plain silly.

    ====================

    If this comment is directed to me, i will say this:

    First i have been watching both pitchers since ST, so i have a little more than 7 innings in relief to base my judgement. I am not saying that Phelps is better than Hughes, i am just saying that at this point in time he is. He has better secondary stuff, better command and i would say better body language (poise). Hughes has been working on his secondary stuff and it is improving. He certainly has a better fastball. But at this point in time Phelps has the better package. It may not be true in the future, but right now he is..

  9. Jerkface April 14th, 2012 at 7:23 pm

    Is there a date that puts an outer limit on sending Hughes to the minors leagues, if necessary?

    Once he gets 5 years of service time he will be able to veto any optioning. He will get his 5th year after 45-60 days, so I’ll put the deadline at June 1.

  10. Nick in SF April 14th, 2012 at 7:25 pm

    I think so, luis, thanks. You said Caracas is lovely if I don’t mind getting robbed and kidnapped, Columbia has some good coffee and mountains, Lima is nice if I want to buy a colorful wool sweater, and Machu Piccu is good to see if I’m in the neighborhood.

    What about La Paz? I’m thinking I’d like to check out a city very high up in the air.

  11. Playedcatchwithmunson April 14th, 2012 at 7:25 pm

    How are people still surprised by Bughes’ inability to put people away. In his “good” year he had tremendous run support and good fortune, and even then he rarely lasted more than 6innings. He lacks the balls and the late movement on pitches to put Major League hitters away. He can do it out of the bullpen for an inning or two, which is where he is headed before being traded for a bat mid season. Wake up, this is not new!!!

  12. RadioKev April 14th, 2012 at 7:26 pm

    I didn’t watch the game – but Hughes put up some pretty disappointing results. It’ll be a shame if he doesn’t put it together.

    I assume his breaking pitches weren’t doing the job? Hughes looked so good in the bullpen because his fastball played up a lot more…far less of those foul balls.

  13. darbodla April 14th, 2012 at 7:27 pm

    Just a comment in general, yours included. Spring training doesn’t mean much and seven big league innings in relief certainly doesn’t. It’s typical here to anoint heroes prematurely and to downgrade others too soon as well. Also, there is a big difference in coming in to a game as a long man and starting. It’s just not comparable in any way shape or form.

  14. luis April 14th, 2012 at 7:28 pm

    Nick in SF April 14th, 2012 at 7:25 pm

    I think so, luis, thanks. You said Caracas is lovely if I don’t mind getting robbed and kidnapped, Columbia has some good coffee and mountains, Lima is nice if I want to buy a colorful wool sweater, and Machu Piccu is good to see if I’m in the neighborhood.

    What about La Paz? I’m thinking I’d like to check out a city very high up in the air.

    ========================

    LMAO!!! Good way of putting things in to perspective. I haven’t been to La Paz, so i can’t help you in that regard. But i would tell you to go Peru or Colombia though.

  15. luis April 14th, 2012 at 7:33 pm

    RadioKev April 14th, 2012 at 7:26 pm

    I didn’t watch the game – but Hughes put up some pretty disappointing results. It’ll be a shame if he doesn’t put it together.

    I assume his breaking pitches weren’t doing the job? Hughes looked so good in the bullpen because his fastball played up a lot more…far less of those foul balls.

    ============================

    Actually his CB was much better than the previous start. I didn’t see many CU’s, but i missed the last inning he pitched and the first one as well. His FB was very good, but he made some mistakes up in the middle of the plate and he got hammered. His secondary stuff still needs some work.

  16. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 7:33 pm

    Nick-

    Unless you’re in pretty good condtion I would not reccommend you try La Paz at almost 12,000 ft.

    The air is might thin at that altitude.

    ;)

  17. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 7:34 pm

    edit: a might thin.

  18. Nick in SF April 14th, 2012 at 7:40 pm

    I’m thinking there’s got to be some good mountain scenery in and near La Paz.

    And if I leave the city and get up even higher into the mountains, the chances of running someone b*tching about Phil Hughes get pretty low.

    Unless I can get some Bolivian wi-fi, I’d like to being a little Lohud with me.

    Rangers!

  19. luis April 14th, 2012 at 7:40 pm

    “Also, there is a big difference in coming in to a game as a long man and starting. It’s just not comparable in any way shape or form”

    ==================================

    You are right on this. It’s a lot harder to be the long man and perform at peak level. You have no routine, less time to warm up and prepare the different pitches. On top of that you might be rusty by inaction (not in this case though, he has pitched with regularity)

  20. Triple Short of a Cycle April 14th, 2012 at 7:40 pm

    Well that’s the end of this Ranger game. So much for Ottawa being a “bad” first round match up. I’d be shocked if the Rangers trailed at all this series

  21. darbodla April 14th, 2012 at 7:44 pm

    I’ll disagree there. It is far harder to start a game than to come in as a long man where there is much less stress and certainly less expectations of it being meaningful. Often the score isn’t close.

  22. Nick in SF April 14th, 2012 at 7:45 pm

    Bad news for the SF Giants: bearded closer Brian Wilson has “structural damage” in elbow, off to see Dr. Andrews, his season is in serious danger. :shock:

  23. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 7:46 pm

    Nick-

    It’s alto plano. High plains.

    You could be like Clint Eastwood and be a High plains drfiter but I’m not so sure about the Mountains.

    I have always wanted to go to Tiahuanaco in Boliva. Some very ancient ruins. Never been.

    If you want really great Mountains in SA go to Chile.

    Torres del Paine NP. Breathtaking scenery.

    Like I said you’d better be healthy or bring your oxygen bottle with you though.

    Have a great trip.

    :)

  24. luis April 14th, 2012 at 7:47 pm

    darbodla April 14th, 2012 at 7:44 pm

    I’ll disagree there. It is far harder to start a game than to come in as a long man where there is much less stress and certainly less expectations of it being meaningful. Often the score isn’t close.

    =======================

    You are right about the score and the expectations of being meaningful. Usually the long man is a guy with lesser stuff, that is not good enough to start. That’s why i didn’t want Phelps to come north with the team, he is too good to be used as the long man.

  25. Triple Short of a Cycle April 14th, 2012 at 7:49 pm

    For anyone that heard the Evan and Joe interview with cash did they ask a follow up question when Cash said he regretted putting Joba in the pen?

  26. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 7:49 pm

    Can’t spell. Got the GB’s again.

    drifter and Bolivia.

    that ought to do it.

    sorry.

  27. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 7:52 pm

    Have a good evening people.

    I’ll try to check in later.

  28. tucker April 14th, 2012 at 7:54 pm

    Thanks to Boston …. That’s a phrase that inspires one word: Yuk

  29. luis April 14th, 2012 at 7:57 pm

    Gnite MTU

  30. ron April 14th, 2012 at 7:58 pm

    Hughes threw his fb 48 times,32 strikes,5 swinging.
    Changeup 7 times,2 strikes,1 swinging.
    curve 16 times,10 strikes,zero swinging.
    cutter 13 times,8 strikes,zero swinging.

    84 pitches

    48 fb
    7 changeups
    16 curveballs
    13 cutters.

  31. J. Alfred Prufrock April 14th, 2012 at 8:01 pm

    Triple, If my recall is working, he said he regretted letting anyone see Chamberlain in the bullpen. Slightly different emphasis, but it adds up the same. My recollection is that Cashman rambled on after making the comment – perhaps to put some distance between his response and the question? That they might forget the question altogether? (Talk radio, after all). I think the show was ending, because IIRC, the host said “last question…”
    ///

    Luis! Good evening to you, sir. FYI: He That Shall Not Be Named Shall Be Catching Noesi in about an hour ;).

    Mason Williams with a triple :D.

  32. jacksquat April 14th, 2012 at 8:03 pm

    The puzzling thing about Hughes’ start is that it wouldn’t really be fair to say that he couldn’t put guys away. At times, his fastball showed some late life, and he did finish with six strikeouts in just 3 1/3 innings.

    The 6 strikeouts in 3 1/3 innings is somewhat deceptive. Hughes faced a lot more batters than a pitcher normally would pitching 3 1/3 innings well. So the K’s are not really in any way encouraging to me.

  33. luis April 14th, 2012 at 8:04 pm

    Ron,

    Good job on that pitch break down…Did you see the game?

  34. tucker April 14th, 2012 at 8:05 pm

    Ron, those numbers suggest hitters are sitting on his fastball.

  35. J. Alfred Prufrock April 14th, 2012 at 8:07 pm

    The Ks were encouraging, because his FB was moving and missing their bats – the Morales K was such a one, moving up and away. Gorgeous f’n pitch. Good fastball today.

  36. randy l. April 14th, 2012 at 8:08 pm

    “Maybe Randy was onto something when he said being a hyped pitching prospect in the Yankees system is like the kiss of death ?

    Better to fly under the radar ?”

    mtu-

    the reason i said that a while back is because that when guys like robertson, nova, and phelps aren’y given the star treatment they spend a longer time in the minors and complete their apprenticeship.

    hughes never really learned how to pitch. his development was cut short.
    same with chamberlain. pineda is now the one who’s getting the star treatment. they are greasing the wheels to get him back in the rotation.

    how about letting him take his time and learn a plus change the right way. slowly, so he owns it.

    i like hughes as a picher, but they need to commit to him and let him pitch. i don’t care of it’s in the minors. just let him keep starting and developing his craft.

  37. jacksquat April 14th, 2012 at 8:09 pm

    K rate should be looked at per batter faced, not innings pitched.

    To give an extreme example, a pitcher could face 9 batters in the first inning and give up 6 runs, but all 3 outs are strikeouts. Nice k rate, huh?

    It’s pretty simple logic.

  38. ron April 14th, 2012 at 8:10 pm

    luis April 14th, 2012 at 8:04 pm
    Ron,

    Good job on that pitch break down…Did you see the game?
    ————————————————————————————————————————-
    No.

    I just dropped hughes on my fantasy team in favor of the texas pitcher,harrison.
    This is the rotowire writeup on him.

    After two outings, Harrison is 2-0 with a 0.64 ERA and looking like a soli doption in both AL-only and mixed leagues. He’ll get the Tigers his next time out, a team he hasn’t seen much success against, but given the way he’s thrown the ball this year, it’s almost impossible to sit him.
    (Rotowire.com)

  39. Tar April 14th, 2012 at 8:11 pm

    There was one K that I remember that was on a beautiful CU.

  40. Bret The Hitman April 14th, 2012 at 8:11 pm

    The moral of the story sounds like:

    84 pitches

    6 swinging strikes

  41. TheBigOut April 14th, 2012 at 8:15 pm

    Why are people here afraid to admit the offense stinks ? All I keep reading is people saying, “The offense is weird, dunno what to make of them, they are unlucky”. C’mon people, I realize they’ll get better then they are now, but call a spade a spade. They stink !

    With that said, I dont care that we scored a lot of run in baseball, that is a very misleading stat. Last year this team was incapable of winning close games. That says a lot more to me then runs scored. I want to believe that we have the “bronx bombers” but we don’t. THat ship has sailed.

    What we have is a bunch of hitters looking at Garardi’s binder (or Long’s) at what the pitcher usually does, what to expect.. a lot of very bad guessing. You can see them pressing but trying to cheat on the first pitch. That’s part of the problem, the next part of the problem is almost ALL of them wanna be “Hero”. They swing for the fences constantly and quite frankly that should not be as often as they are. I mean it’s ALL of them except Jeter and Gardner really. This offense is not a team with patience at all, they are swinging at complete trash and doing favors for pitchers, but that’s a result of above.

    They just need to stop that nonsense, stop relying on video of pitchers behavior. I’m not saying don’t use it, I am saying don’t make it bible. This offense looks like they forgot how to have fun with baseball, go out and just enjoy it, stop trying to play for the HOF. After that, then there are the issues with age and physical ability. You here pitchers say it all the time, when I lost my “HEAT” I had to really learn hot to pitch, maybe these guys need to learn how to hit.

    With that said, then we have Tex. I think it’s a very big problem. I don’t think he has the mental make-up to be succesful in NY, just look at his body language. He is completely lost. Next thing to go is he defense. I’m not exaggerating, he has some sever mental problem with his hitting these last 2+ years.. it’s like he has Knoblauch’s disease, but with his bat. Yes, I think it is that bad. Only time will tell. The issues I describe above the manager is to blame almost as much as the hitter. I don’t have the answer, but I see the problem clear as day.

  42. luis April 14th, 2012 at 8:15 pm

    Hi JAP!

    So much for the notion that he can’t catch! ;) I will watch for sure….Another triple for Mason amazing!, i read an article about the prospects from Charleston that played against Tim Hudson, they said that he didn’t have enough loft on his swing. Newman who was being interviewed, said he was impressed with Gumbs bat speed and Bichette unorthodox swing but great batting approach.

  43. ron April 14th, 2012 at 8:18 pm

    I just think hughes is not throwing quality offspeed pitches.
    If he proves he can throw a changeup,or curve,for a strike,in any count,it will make his fb better.
    Then when hughes gets two strikes on the batter,he freezes because he does not trust another pitch.
    At that point,the batter is shortening his swing,fouling tons of pitches off,til hughes makes a mistake.

    The thing with sending hughes to AAA is,he could go down,and throw nothing but offspeed pitches,til he masters them,and consider the slider,and or split.
    I think he is in love with his fb,and it is killing him.

  44. luis April 14th, 2012 at 8:20 pm

    randy l. April 14th, 2012 at 8:08 pm

    “Maybe Randy was onto something when he said being a hyped pitching prospect in the Yankees system is like the kiss of death ?

    Better to fly under the radar ?”

    mtu-

    the reason i said that a while back is because that when guys like robertson, nova, and phelps aren’y given the star treatment they spend a longer time in the minors and complete their apprenticeship.

    hughes never really learned how to pitch. his development was cut short.
    same with chamberlain. pineda is now the one who’s getting the star treatment. they are greasing the wheels to get him back in the rotation.

    how about letting him take his time and learn a plus change the right way. slowly, so he owns it.

    i like hughes as a picher, but they need to commit to him and let him pitch. i don’t care of it’s in the minors. just let him keep starting and developing his craft.

    ============================

    I agree with this assessment completely. I was saying the same thing not too long ago, that it was better to go under the radar to make it to the Big club.

  45. TheBigOut April 14th, 2012 at 8:20 pm

    Oh you want proof that the offense relies too much on the “binders” ? Why do you think we make pitchers they’ve never seen before look like aces that everybody else smashes ? Time and time again, an unknown or “newish” like pitcher shuts us down.

    We either need to shake up this lineup, or get them to start playing the game for fun again and not to make headlines or HOF. That is why I am so frustrated, they are so far over-reaching, yet our manager does not have the “respect” to call them out on it. He thinks they are “professionals” they’ll figure it out. Uh, when ? After their contract expires ?

  46. TheBigOut April 14th, 2012 at 8:21 pm

    sorry if it is TL;DR but it had to be said.

  47. igotid88 April 14th, 2012 at 8:22 pm

    The Yankees are still a good offensive team. It wouldn’t hurt having Hughes pitch the whole year. He won’t have a game like this every start.

  48. Tar April 14th, 2012 at 8:23 pm

    Bret
    Why you being such an a@@ in regards to Phil? Is this about some debate with somebody?

    Bigout

    1 week in to the season is way to early to say anything definitive about the offense.

    Or….. you can post they stink and look incredibly stupid later.

    Personally, I think I will give it a little more time.

    Rash decisions and baseball kind of don’t go together.

  49. EA April 14th, 2012 at 8:24 pm

    The moral of the story sounds like:

    84 pitches

    6 swinging strikes

    ————

    Yep.

    And the Angels/Rays are not even the best offensive teams he’ll be facing this year either – Texas, Detroit, Toronto, Boston, etc.

  50. yankeefeminista April 14th, 2012 at 8:25 pm

    Luis, you mean Mike Newman, the writer from fangraphs, right? And not Mark Newman? I wouldn’t put very much stake in what Mike Newman says.

    Hughes needs to evolve and be more efficient, but I am not going to give up on him two games into the season. I thought his stuff was good and he got more strikes on the curveball and a K on the changeup. I read he didn’t have the feel on the changeup that he had last game and I think he threw only half the number. Location has to improve in the next game, which will be another home game against a lefty-heavy lineup. But Hughes did a pretty good job vs. the lefties today; Kendricks and Pujols had 5 of the 8 hits.

    Looking forward to seeing The Son catch tonight.

  51. yankeefeminista April 14th, 2012 at 8:26 pm

    *stock, that is, …not stake

  52. Rich in NJ April 14th, 2012 at 8:27 pm

    Thanks jerkface.

    If they want to let Hughes stay in the rotation irrespective of the results, I’m fine with that (I still believe that he can be a successful ML starter), but it’s not they way they have done business in recent memory.

    So I think that no matter what Girradi says, a couple more starts in which he can’t get out of the fourth or fifth inning and they may well make a move, and it could be to Phelps.

    If that happens, the mL is the place for Hughes to be, not the pen.

  53. TheBigOut April 14th, 2012 at 8:28 pm

    Pitching is the least of my concerns, we are stocked. Everybody is focusing on pitching when the main issue with this team is offense. I’m not sure how some don’t see that. Are we gonna score runs, “Yes!” are we gonna get some big hits ? “Absolutely” is are offense WS caliber ? Not a chance. Not without the BA’s getting back to the .300 mark and we replace the loss of matsui, posada, damon production that we had in 2009. We are even close to that production since 2009.

  54. igotid88 April 14th, 2012 at 8:29 pm

    Sometimes is not about how good your secondary pitches are, sometimes it’s about making the hitters guess wrong. Sometimes it’s the hitters who swing at pitches 6 inches off the plate when the last 50 times they pitched to you. They threw 6 pitches off the plate.

  55. Yank1 April 14th, 2012 at 8:29 pm

    I don’t think people putting Hughes in hot water are wrong for doing so.

    Fact is, a 200 game winner is getting closer to being ready, with a guaranteed rotation spot awaiting him.

    Pineda, diminished velocity and all, still has a better collection of pitches than Hughes and more potential and was a big off-season trade

    One of those guys is definitely going to be inserted into the rotation soon, the other could push with strong AAA performances and returned velocity. Someone has to go and right now – 2 starts in which Hughes didn’t even pitch 5 innings isn’t stating his case. He may have won the competition coming out of ST but the competition was always going to be on-going until Andy was ready and Pineda will still be breathing down Nova/Hughes/Garcia’s neck even if he is in the minors.

    Hughes has to show something – we can talk about how ‘explosive’ his FB looked all day, if it doesn’t translate into outs, what is the point?

    It’s not overreacting when someone is going to lose their rotation spot soon for certain.

  56. ron April 14th, 2012 at 8:29 pm

    I think bichette is the real deal.
    Imo,he will be our new 3b,with some pop.

    Bichette,williams,sanchez.

    I also agree with randy.

    Compare phelps,nova,robertson,kennedy,when we had him.

    They all have 3-5 different pitches.
    Once pitchers are ready with their innings,and the number of different pitches,let them come up,and deal with their growing pains,instead of dealing with 2 sets of growing pains,one being,not enough quality pitches,like hughes.

    Hughes simply can’t use his curveball,and changeup as out pitches,putting all the pressure on his fb,wich would be a lot better,if he had better secondary offerings.

  57. J. Alfred Prufrock April 14th, 2012 at 8:30 pm

    luis April 14th, 2012 at 8:15 pm
    Hi JAP!

    So much for the notion that he can’t catch! I will watch for sure….Another triple for Mason amazing!, i read an article about the prospects from Charleston that played against Tim Hudson, they said that he didn’t have enough loft on his swing. Newman who was being interviewed, said he was impressed with Gumbs bat speed and Bichette unorthodox swing but great batting approach.
    //

    Luis, I saw Gumbs in the same game I saw Williams (Brooklyn last year, in Hughes rehab start, where he was spiking his CB). Williams was a tour de force in that game. Gumbs looked good but he sort of receded into the background, given the kind of day Williams had.

  58. jacksquat April 14th, 2012 at 8:35 pm

    I think Jerkface’s June 1 date is the outside date for when at least one pitcher will be replaced, and a good chance two.

  59. Bret The Hitman April 14th, 2012 at 8:36 pm

    I’m excited about Eduardo Nunez, Dante Bichette Jr., Gary Sanchez and Mason Williams. That could form a new core dynasty led by Robinson Cano and Melky Cabrera…plus all the young pitching…Pineda, Nova, Banuelos, Betances, Robertson, DePaula, Campos..

  60. yankeefeminista April 14th, 2012 at 8:37 pm

    Right, Phelps is essentially the same age as Hughes (less than 4 months younger) and basically got the “Rays” treatment in terms of development time spent in the minors. Phelps in the Yanks estimate weren’t worth bringing up; too bad we didn’t give our best pitchers that development time. Hopefully, we get it right with the Killer B’s and Pineda, et al.

  61. yankeefeminista April 14th, 2012 at 8:37 pm

    best=highest ceiling

  62. igotid88 April 14th, 2012 at 8:38 pm

    It’s weird that this is a team where a pitcher can work out his stuff, and not worry about losing many games because of the number of runs this team will score. The yankees will eventually score runs forHughes and Hughes will throw more 7ip 2er games than you can count.

  63. TheBigOut April 14th, 2012 at 8:39 pm

    Tar

    Your attempt to belittle me fails. I’m not saying what I am because I’m trying to shine on a blog. I am saying it because it is what I’ve seen since 2010 and it’s only gotten worse. I don’t think I am the only one here that see’s the same. That’s what i base my concern on, not just the last 8 games.

    I did say the word “stink” yes they do. If you don’t have the intellectual ability to read or comprehend the many “valid points” I raised in my post, feel free to ignore me. Maybe I’ll look stupid later — I sure hope so, that would mean they are hitting well — but you look pretty stupid now with your sad attempt to belittle. Night Chief.

  64. jacksquat April 14th, 2012 at 8:39 pm

    I don’t think Montero was let go because he “couldn’t catch”, I think he was traded because they didn’t think he could catch as well as Girardi (and maybe Cashman) want their catchers to catch.

    So if Montero becomes an above average catcher defensively, only then do I think you can do the “in your face” thing in regards to “can’t catch”.

    Being able to catch without being terrible is a different thing than being able to catch well.

    Thinking they should have kept Montero even if they thought he would become only a mediocre catcher is a different debate.

  65. yankeefeminista April 14th, 2012 at 8:39 pm

    Pettitte when he returns will be the one who goes into the rotation, and not Phelps.

  66. luis April 14th, 2012 at 8:45 pm

    yankeefeminista April 14th, 2012 at 8:25 pm

    Luis, you mean Mike Newman, the writer from fangraphs, right? And not Mark Newman? I wouldn’t put very much stake in what Mike Newman says.

    Hughes needs to evolve and be more efficient, but I am not going to give up on him two games into the season. I thought his stuff was good and he got more strikes on the curveball and a K on the changeup. I read he didn’t have the feel on the changeup that he had last game and I think he threw only half the number. Location has to improve in the next game, which will be another home game against a lefty-heavy lineup. But Hughes did a pretty good job vs. the lefties today; Kendricks and Pujols had 5 of the 8 hits.

    ============================

    I believe it was mark Newman from fangraphs. But i am not sure, it was a link that someone posted in an earlier thread.

    About Hughes, I haven’t given up on him. I just feel that Phelps looks like a more complete pitcher as of right now. I do agree with you that his upside is to great to give up on him though. He did improved his CB today, but is still way behind in comparison to 07.

  67. Tar April 14th, 2012 at 8:47 pm

    TheBigOut

    Don’t flatter yourself. You are not the first to post “valid points” that the “Offense stinks”. We hear it after every loss, in fact it’s posted numerous times during the game if they are god forbid, losing. What I was trying to tell you is it’s way too early to know exactly what you have going forward this year.

    BTW your “binder” theory on why they are struggling is absurd. Have a good night.

  68. Nick in SF April 14th, 2012 at 8:48 pm

    And there’s always Ecuador as well. It’s well within range.

  69. igotid88 April 14th, 2012 at 8:49 pm

    jacksquat April 14th, 2012 at 8:39 pm
    I don’t think Montero was let go because he “couldn’t catch”, I think he was traded because they didn’t think he could catch as well as Girardi (and maybe Cashman) want their catchers to catch.

    So if Montero becomes an above average catcher defensively, only then do I think you can do the “in your face” thing in regards to “can’t catch”.

    Being able to catch without being terrible is a different thing than being able to catch well.

    Thinking they should have kept Montero even if they thought he would become only a mediocre catcher is a different debate.
    ———————————-

    Posada wasn’t exactly a good catcher and they got by. And won a few World Series.

  70. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 8:49 pm

    Randy-

    Saw your post.

    Thanks for the clarification.

    :)

  71. TheBigOut April 14th, 2012 at 8:50 pm

    BTW your “binder” theory on why they are struggling is absurd. Have a good night.

    ^^

    case in point. blind leading the…

  72. J. Alfred Prufrock April 14th, 2012 at 8:50 pm

    In who’s face, exactly???

    Yeah, that’s what Yankee fans who are crushed he was traded are just rubbing their hands together for: the day we can ride in here and cry “victory” when Montero proves Cashman/Girardi lame brained for getting rid of him.

    What a triumph, and after we’re done celebrating, he’ll still not be a Yankee, he’ll still be a Mariner, and we’ll still be sick to our stomachs.

    Get over yourself. No one cares (at least, speaking for myself, I don’t) about shoveing in your unimportant, faceless internet face. My issue is with the management that blew him away. Who cares about you and outsmarting you???

    Un-f’n-believable.

    You people are idiotic: how is it a victory for us Yankee fans here

  73. J. Alfred Prufrock April 14th, 2012 at 8:52 pm

    *whose face that is

  74. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 8:52 pm

    Nick-

    If you want info. about Ecuador just ask Jeers if see him around.

    His Wife is from there and I believe he knows quite a bit about it.

  75. GreenBeret7 April 14th, 2012 at 8:53 pm

    John Shea?@JohnSheaHeyReply

    Brian Wilson structural damage elbow, facing possible surgery, possibly meeting with Dr. Andrews.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    NYYs can’t help them on this one, even if SF had something that could help the Yankee offense cheaply.

  76. Ys Guy April 14th, 2012 at 8:54 pm

    the yankees have been losing to pitchers they’ve never seen for a long long time. i never heard people complain that torre looked at too many binders but his teams did just as badly if not worse against pitchers they had never seen.

  77. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 8:56 pm

    Too bad about Wilson.

    I liked the guy. He had style.

    Kind of reminded me of a right-handed version of crazy Al Hrabosky.

    :)

  78. GreenBeret7 April 14th, 2012 at 8:58 pm

    MTU April 14th, 2012 at 8:56 pm
    Too bad about Wilson.

    I liked the guy. He had style.

    Kind of reminded me of a right-handed version of crazy Al Hrabosky.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    He is the definition of a flake.

  79. J. Alfred Prufrock April 14th, 2012 at 8:59 pm

    MTU,

    He’s a character. He’s great/utterly natural in those goofy commercial spots. Like Peyton Manning natural.

  80. Bret The Hitman April 14th, 2012 at 8:59 pm

    SF would be a nice place to dump Soriano’s contract. Plus he might have inflated value by the time the deadline rolls around. I know the Sox will be looking for a closer as well so that will drive up prices for closers.

  81. tucker April 14th, 2012 at 8:59 pm

    Would the Yanks really send Hughes back to the minors to develop his secondary pitches? I don’t think so. He has less than two years to free agency. They’ll put him in the bullpen where he has proven his effectiveness. No sense in developing him now and letting him become a complete pitcher for another team after he is a free agent.

  82. GreenBeret7 April 14th, 2012 at 9:00 pm

    Tyler austin over the last 2 and a half games has a single, 3 doubles, a triple and 2 homers. He’s warm.

  83. rm April 14th, 2012 at 9:00 pm

    Have the Yankees faced any pitcher they have never seen before yet this year?

  84. Bronx Jeers April 14th, 2012 at 9:01 pm

    I’ve been to Quito a few times. There’s lots of “adventure” going on there.

  85. luis April 14th, 2012 at 9:01 pm

    jacksquat April 14th, 2012 at 8:39 pm

    I don’t think Montero was let go because he “couldn’t catch”, I think he was traded because they didn’t think he could catch as well as Girardi (and maybe Cashman) want their catchers to catch.

    So if Montero becomes an above average catcher defensively, only then do I think you can do the “in your face” thing in regards to “can’t catch”.

    Being able to catch without being terrible is a different thing than being able to catch well.

    Thinking they should have kept Montero even if they thought he would become only a mediocre catcher is a different debate.

    =======================

    If that was the case, then it is an even more moronic decision. The Yankees have had an offensive catcher since the dawn of times (Dickey, Berra, Howard, Munson, Posada), and that’s has been part of the secret of their success. I guess they didn’t get the memo.

    His bat would have more than compensated the defensive blunders he could make on the field. My beef is with the FO, for making a a bad decision.

  86. J. Alfred Prufrock April 14th, 2012 at 9:02 pm

    Nice hat!

  87. Rich in NJ April 14th, 2012 at 9:02 pm

    “No sense in developing him now and letting him become a complete pitcher for another team after he is a free agent.”

    That would be incredibly short-sighted and counterproductive. If he is ever going to have significant trade value again, he has to dominate in the mL, and you never know when they might need a starter, given Pineda’s current fragility, Garcia and Pettitte’s age, etc.

  88. Duh Innings April 14th, 2012 at 9:02 pm

    Against All Odds April 14th, 2012 at 7:00 pm

    Hamels won’t be a Yankee next season.

    —————————————————

    …says the guy who doesn’t work in the front office.

    ‘Pretty sad you hope the Yanks don’t get Hamels.

    I took your bait hahaha.

    ‘Still crying that IPK wasn’t in the 2009 Yankees rotation?

    If Hughes keeps pitching like he did today, he will lose his job to whoever joins the Yanks first, Pettitte or Pineda.

    Good job by Girardi burning his long man (Phelps) for x number of days after a day off Thursday and 8 IP by Kuroda yesterday afternoon. Now the Yanks are a pitcher short in the bullpen cuz who can they send down to call up a pitcher besides Phelps? And whoever they send down can’t be called up for ten days. Idi ot.

  89. mick April 14th, 2012 at 9:04 pm

    Hate to say it but Phil looks like he has no future here.
    Andy and Pineda are coming, Hiroki could be gone next year and Freddy is stop gap.
    Phelps is on the rise.
    Phil is a goner.
    He’s just not good or consistent enough.
    I’m sure we can get something of value in a trade, it’s just a matter of time or timing.

  90. J. Alfred Prufrock April 14th, 2012 at 9:05 pm

    luis, it was painful OD listening to them introducing Posada as one of the great offensive catchers in baseball history…

    Good to see him, though.

  91. LGY April 14th, 2012 at 9:05 pm

    We should get a pool going for when Hughes will get his first swinging strike on a curveball this season.

  92. Rich in NJ April 14th, 2012 at 9:05 pm

    “Hate to say it but Phil looks like he has no future here.”

    Did Nova look like he had a future here when he was sent down last season?

    Did you expect Pineda to throw 91 mph in ST and then end up on the DL?

    Things can change very quickly. Being prepared for as many contingencies is the best way to run a franchie.

  93. Stoneburner April 14th, 2012 at 9:07 pm

    yankeefeminista April 14th, 2012 at 8:37 pm
    Right, Phelps is essentially the same age as Hughes (less than 4 months younger) and basically got the “Rays” treatment in terms of development time spent in the minors. Phelps in the Yanks estimate weren’t worth bringing up; too bad we didn’t give our best pitchers that development time. Hopefully, we get it right with the Killer B’s and Pineda, et al.

    *********

    What are you talking about? Phelps had just as much development time for the most part as Hughes in terms of seasons – only difference is that Phelps had development in college as well – Hughes came right out of HS at a very young age for HS players.

    Case in point again:

    Hughes in 2005 and 2006 – primarily in the minors

    Phelps in 2009, 2010, and 2011 – primarily in the minors (2008 briefly in SI – but just a monitoring 72 inning period so Yanks could see if he had to make any adjustments). Now 2011 was injury riddled – so you can start to draw the comparison to Hughes in ’08 with his injury time in the minors and catch up in the AFL – as well as development time in 2009 split b/w minors and relieving. While Phelps has a smudge more development time due to 2011 – not by much –

    The development time spent in the minors is not that drastic for Phelps compared to Hughes – as far as actual time spent- and certainly not Rays esque – no – it is too shortsighted to just look at the ages of Phelps and Hughes to say one had more development time versus the other – b/c you completely ignore that Phelps had development time as a college pitcher in the process. But then again – maybe you can go back to your plus change for Jose Ramirez – errrr did you really mean Jose Ramirez throws a “power” change. . . . . . tired of it – just tired of the elitism. . . . . .end rant.

  94. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 9:07 pm

    Rich-

    What the heck is a “franchie” ?

    Is that a French baseball team ?

    :)

  95. mick April 14th, 2012 at 9:07 pm

    Did Nova look like he had a future here when he was sent down last season?
    ==============
    most definitely

  96. Nick in SF April 14th, 2012 at 9:07 pm

    Phil Hughes —-> SF closer?

    :ducks:

  97. Rich in NJ April 14th, 2012 at 9:08 pm

    “most definitely”

    He did? So you knew that Nova would improve his slider that much and another pitcher would falter thereby enabling him to get another chance on a team that hasn’t successfully developed a starter in years? Props.

  98. mick April 14th, 2012 at 9:09 pm

    Phil Phranchise is phinally phulphilling his phate.

  99. Nick in SF April 14th, 2012 at 9:10 pm

    Isn’t Russel Martin a Franchie?

  100. Rich in NJ April 14th, 2012 at 9:10 pm

    MTU

    I think it’s some latte-based coffee drink. Yeah, that’s the ticket, a latte-based coffee drink.

  101. Tar April 14th, 2012 at 9:10 pm

    “We should get a pool going for when Hughes will get his first swinging strike on a curveball this season.”

    Phil threw two CB’s to Pujols that were so good that he froze up and couldn’t swing the bat.

    #Betterthanaswingingstrike

    :evil:

  102. mick April 14th, 2012 at 9:10 pm

    Nova didn’t deserve to go down. He made the most of it, what is your point?

  103. J. Alfred Prufrock April 14th, 2012 at 9:12 pm

    Figgins is your CF. Scary…

  104. mick April 14th, 2012 at 9:12 pm

    Phil Hughes —-> SF closer?
    ==================
    Got Melk?

  105. Rich in NJ April 14th, 2012 at 9:14 pm

    “Nova didn’t deserve to go down. He made the most of it, what is your point?”

    Actually, mick, you are making my argument for me. If a pitcher who you think was effective was still demoted, it underscores that he may not have been in the Yankee plans, because if he definitely was, why mess with him?

  106. tucker April 14th, 2012 at 9:15 pm

    Giants love the Melk Man. They wouldn’t give him up cheaply. Anyway, the Giants have Kontos.

  107. mick April 14th, 2012 at 9:16 pm

    it underscores that he may not have been in the Yankee plans
    =============================
    maybe not at that moment.

  108. Against All Odds April 14th, 2012 at 9:18 pm

    Kennedy got us Granderson why would I be crying that he’s no longer here.

    It’s not that I don’t want Hamels(I told you in the previous thread I’d love to see him here) its that I as well as many other fans realize the Yankees are not going spend lavishly like they did in the past.

  109. mick April 14th, 2012 at 9:18 pm

    CC,Nova,Andy, Pineda, Phelps could very well be the 2013 staff.

  110. Rich in NJ April 14th, 2012 at 9:18 pm

    “maybe not at that moment.”

    When it comes to the way the Yankees handle young pitchers, there really isn’t any more assurance of their ability to stay in the rotation if they are not being relied on in the current moment because since Pettitte, the only homegrown starter they had developed and retained for a while (before Nova, assuming he stays) was Wang.

  111. jacksquat April 14th, 2012 at 9:19 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock April 14th, 2012 at 8:50 pm
    In who’s face, exactly???

    Yeah, that’s what Yankee fans who are crushed he was traded are just rubbing their hands together for: the day we can ride in here and cry “victory” when Montero proves Cashman/Girardi lame brained for getting rid of him.

    What a triumph, and after we’re done celebrating, he’ll still not be a Yankee, he’ll still be a Mariner, and we’ll still be sick to our stomachs.

    Get over yourself. No one cares (at least, speaking for myself, I don’t) about shoveing in your unimportant, faceless internet face. My issue is with the management that blew him away. Who cares about you and outsmarting you???

    Un-f’n-believable.

    You people are idiotic: how is it a victory for us Yankee fans here

    “In your face” to the Yankees, not myself, Captain Oversensitive.

    And that is exactly what all the “ha ha, the guy that can’t catch is catching tonight” comments by some of you are all about.

  112. rm April 14th, 2012 at 9:19 pm

    Duh Innings April 14th, 2012 at 9:02 pm
    “Good job by Girardi burning his long man (Phelps) for x number of days after a day off Thursday and 8 IP by Kuroda yesterday afternoon. Now the Yanks are a pitcher short in the bullpen cuz who can they send down to call up a pitcher besides Phelps?”

    Huh? You don’t think Giradi should have brought in his long man down 6-0 in the 4th inning? When do you think he should use a long releiver is not then? He does still have Corey Wade if he need him tomorrow as well as Logan,Rapada,Soriano, Robertson and Mo and sending Phelps down for 10 days or more would not be a disaster if it somehow got to that point.

  113. mick April 14th, 2012 at 9:20 pm

    My question is this:
    Did that guy who caught the HR ball and threw it back hitting Jones in LF get ejected?

  114. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 9:21 pm

    I want to win tomorrow and take 3 of 4 from the Twins.

    That would be 3 series in a row.

    Ambitious I know.

    But I like.

    :keeping an eye on the ball:

    MTU’ed

    ;)

  115. jacksquat April 14th, 2012 at 9:23 pm

    And read again: “Thinking they should have kept Montero even if they thought he would become only a mediocre catcher is a different debate.”

    In other words, the rest of the post was my point, not whether or not they can do well with a mediocre defensive catcher.

    Reading comprehension, damn.

  116. mick April 14th, 2012 at 9:24 pm

    When it comes to the way the Yankees handle young pitchers,
    ======================================
    It worked ok for Nova though.
    You have no proof that Kennedy would have been good here.
    Phil could go to the NL and be lights out.
    Does that mean they screwed up both of them?
    You can say so but a lot depends on the pitcher.
    They certainly will get less rope here.

  117. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 9:24 pm

    CC better pitch a gem next time out or I’m removin’ the “A” from his uniform and giving to Kuroda.

    ;)

  118. luis April 14th, 2012 at 9:25 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock April 14th, 2012 at 9:05 pm

    luis, it was painful OD listening to them introducing Posada as one of the great offensive catchers in baseball history…

    Good to see him, though.

    ======================

    Likewise….. :( It was a touching moment to see Jorge throw the first pitch to his dad.

  119. tucker April 14th, 2012 at 9:25 pm

    Rich, do you think the Yanks would send down Hughes for a significant period of time to allow him to develop his secondary pitches? I doubt they would. Even if he went back to the minors and dominated, how would that improve his trade value? He has been in the Majors since 2007 with some brief stints in the minors. Less than two years left until free agency. The clock is ticking. The yanks will keep him in the rotation for now and hope he can turn it around. Then they’ll make a decision when Pettitte and/or Pineda are ready.

  120. mick April 14th, 2012 at 9:28 pm

    hen it comes to the way the Yankees handle young pitchers, there really isn’t any more assurance of their ability to stay in the rotation if they are not being relied on in the current moment because since Pettitte, the only homegrown starter they had developed and retained for a while (before Nova, assuming he stays) was Wang.
    ==========================
    They have always relied on FA pitchers and now they are trying to change their ways.
    Keeping them down longer , letting them develop.

  121. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 9:29 pm

    On second thought I retract what I said.

    I’m not takin’ the “A” from CC’s uni because he’s a lot bigger than I am and he would just get mad and proceed to pound me into the ground.

    So he can just keep it and I have confidence that he WILL pitch like an Ace very soon which does not really necessitate it’s removal anyway.

    I’m glad we got that one resolved.

    ;)

  122. Bret The Hitman April 14th, 2012 at 9:30 pm

    Would you trade Rafael Soriano for Aubrey Huff?

  123. mick April 14th, 2012 at 9:30 pm

    They’re not sending Hughes down.
    He has trade value right now.

  124. Nick in SF April 14th, 2012 at 9:31 pm

    The new calculation seems to be that Miguel Olivo’s bat is too valuable to burn him out behind the plate. :neutral:

  125. Nick in SF April 14th, 2012 at 9:32 pm

    #1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :grin: :grin: :grin:

  126. J. Alfred Prufrock April 14th, 2012 at 9:32 pm

    JE-SUS

  127. mick April 14th, 2012 at 9:32 pm

    So he can just keep it and I have confidence that he WILL pitch like an Ace very soon which does not really necessitate it’s removal anyway.
    ===========
    as soon as it warms up he will win 10 in a row..it’s the colder months i worry about, like October.

  128. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 9:32 pm

    Bret-

    No.

    I wouldn’t trade a pair of used earmuffs for Huff.

  129. yankeefeminista April 14th, 2012 at 9:32 pm

    The Son goes yard.

  130. CompassRosy April 14th, 2012 at 9:33 pm

    Jesus catching Noesi tonight…
    and he just gave the M’s a 1-0 lead in the bottom of the 2nd inning
    First home at Safeco Field for the M’s this season.

  131. randy l. April 14th, 2012 at 9:33 pm

    montero mash they called it

    415 feet dead center.

    line drive

  132. luis April 14th, 2012 at 9:33 pm

    MONTERO!!!!!!!! to straight CF

  133. yankeefeminista April 14th, 2012 at 9:34 pm

    Mick, Hughes has minimal trade value and will have less if they stick him in the pen. Were you at that disastrous game? Did you park on the street?

  134. CompassRosy April 14th, 2012 at 9:34 pm

    oh – guess I’m not the only one watching ;)

    but, I have to leave to go to a birthday party :(

    Go, Jesus! Go, Hector!

  135. J. Alfred Prufrock April 14th, 2012 at 9:35 pm

    luis April 14th, 2012 at 9:33 pm
    MONTERO!!!!!!!! to straight CF
    ///

    Right into Monument Park :(

  136. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 9:35 pm

    I felt that Montero blast all the way down here in Utah.

    Damn.

    Arrest him for disturbing the peace !

    Or generating an Earthquake w/o a license !

    :)

  137. yankeefeminista April 14th, 2012 at 9:35 pm

    Noesi looks good so far.

  138. mick April 14th, 2012 at 9:36 pm

    Mick, Hughes has minimal trade value and will have less if they stick him in the pen. Were you at that disastrous game? Did you park on the street?
    ===========================
    Yes, indeed YF.
    Win some, lose some.
    Will be in LF on Tues, hope to catch a ball.

  139. Bret The Hitman April 14th, 2012 at 9:36 pm

    MTU,

    Well the difference is, Huff is off the books after 2012 but the Giants would be stuck with R. Soriano for 2013…but it wouldn’t interfere with Lincecum. R. Soriano on their books would at least partially squeeze them out of the bidding for Melky plus Melky long term interferes with Lincecum anyways. The Yankees would have Soriano’s $$ off the books to sign Melky.

    And Huff is better than Ibanez. He hit .290 with 26 HR recently and he would probably rake in YS.

  140. jacksquat April 14th, 2012 at 9:36 pm

    He looks like he can hit, no doubt about that.

  141. yankeefeminista April 14th, 2012 at 9:36 pm

    Rosy, don’t they have a television at that birthday party? ;)

  142. Rich in NJ April 14th, 2012 at 9:37 pm

    tucker

    I think fear that the Yankees would waste Hughes in the pen. I use the word waste because they have the 7th-9th innings covered and I think he still has the potential to be a valuable starting pitcher.

    You say he has been in the ML since 2007, but I think that obscures the fact that he has had a total of 72 or 73 ML starts stretched over 6 seasons. Of those, he has never started more than 14 games in one season.

    When you combine that with his being rushed to the ML, I don’t think that offers a particularly good read on his true talent as a starter, whatever that ultimately is.

    As for my point about how mL domination would improve his trade value (not that I want to trade him), scouts would be able to see his FB movement, his command, and whatever offspeed pitchers he was using to achieve that. Would it be the same value as he had at 22? No, but it would be more than a ML sixth inning reliever.

    It is because the clock is ticking that I think they need to try to get the most out of his remaining talent, and again, the sixth inning is not the place.

    As I said, they may make a decision before that. Anyway, it’s not like we can be sure that Pettitte and Pineda will definitely be ready at any specific time.

  143. mick April 14th, 2012 at 9:37 pm

    YF-
    Why do you think he has minimal trade value?
    He would do better without all this pressure on him just like Kennedy.

  144. Rich in NJ April 14th, 2012 at 9:37 pm

    “montero mash they called it”

    We have a great GM…for other teams…

  145. yankeefeminista April 14th, 2012 at 9:37 pm

    Rich’s filter must be working.

  146. luis April 14th, 2012 at 9:38 pm

    mick April 14th, 2012 at 9:30 pm

    They’re not sending Hughes down.
    He has trade value right now.
    ====================

    Nope, his trade value right now is cero. That’s why you have to keep giving him the ball as a SP.

  147. yankeefeminista April 14th, 2012 at 9:38 pm

    Oops, I spoke too soon.

  148. GreenBeret7 April 14th, 2012 at 9:38 pm

    Charleston wins 8-4, Tampa wins 8-0.

    Last 4 games for Austin, 19 ab, 7 runs scored, 10 hits, 4 doubles, 2 triples, 2 homers, 5 RBI, 2 walk, 2 strikeouts. not sure what happened those lousy singles. Throw ‘em away. he does lead the league early in triples with 3 and doubles with 5. Hitting .429.

  149. Rich in NJ April 14th, 2012 at 9:38 pm

    “They have always relied on FA pitchers and now they are trying to change their ways. Keeping them down longer , letting them develop.”

    At this point, it’s largely rhetoric.

  150. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 9:39 pm

    Rich-

    Very spirited defense of Hughes.

    Commendable.

    My question is : “Has he retained you as counsel ?”

    Come clean.

    :)

  151. Bret The Hitman April 14th, 2012 at 9:39 pm

    If they trade R. Soriano to SF then Hughes would definitely go to the pen. There’s still time but it will be interesting if that happens.

  152. Rich in NJ April 14th, 2012 at 9:40 pm

    MTU

    Atty-client confidentiality precludes me from answering.

  153. mick April 14th, 2012 at 9:40 pm

    Nope, his trade value right now is cero.
    =========================
    Not true. He has value. He has potential. Other teams will recognize that.

  154. Rich in NJ April 14th, 2012 at 9:42 pm

    Seriously, Pineda better be freakin’ dominant and durable or I will get even sicker every time I think about that cf of a trade.

  155. GreenBeret7 April 14th, 2012 at 9:43 pm

    MTU April 14th, 2012 at 9:32 pm
    Bret-

    No.

    I wouldn’t trade a pair of used earmuffs for Huff.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Or for a pair of Pedroia’s used ear plugs. Not for what Huff’s making which is $10 mil this year and another $10 mil next year or a $2 mil buyout..

  156. mick April 14th, 2012 at 9:44 pm

    how about swisher and hughes for melky and huff?

  157. igotid88 April 14th, 2012 at 9:44 pm

    Montero hits homer

  158. jacksquat April 14th, 2012 at 9:45 pm

    I think on a strictly value in isolation standpoint, Pineda/Campos for Montero/Noesi was a fair trade. I think it will work out well for both sides.

  159. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 9:45 pm

    Any trade inquiries regarding Phil Hughes must run through his Counsel Rich in NJ.

    He has refused to come clean on this matter but it is painfully obvious who he represents.

    ;)

  160. igotid88 April 14th, 2012 at 9:46 pm

    straight away center 415ft

  161. blake April 14th, 2012 at 9:46 pm

    Cash should ask about Belt if he talks to the Giants….doubt they’d trade him but they don’t seem too intersted in playing him either……

  162. mick April 14th, 2012 at 9:46 pm

    damn, i’m arguing with attys here?
    no wonder this place is so argumentative.

  163. blake April 14th, 2012 at 9:47 pm

    I see Montero hit a homer…..first of many

  164. randy l. April 14th, 2012 at 9:47 pm

    i was just getting ready to say how much fun it is watching montero catch that inning.

    and whammo he crushes a homer.

    now i’m conflicted.

    do i go with the catching or the 415 foot frozen rope?

    see ,that’s the dilemma with montero :)

  165. Rich in NJ April 14th, 2012 at 9:47 pm

    MTU

    I wish I could have had that power over another trade inquiry that shall remain nameless.

    Anyway, the ATM awaits. Later.

  166. Against All Odds April 14th, 2012 at 9:48 pm

    The other teams will recognize it they will only go so far.

  167. luis April 14th, 2012 at 9:49 pm

    mick April 14th, 2012 at 9:40 pm

    Nope, his trade value right now is cero.
    =========================
    Not true. He has value. He has potential. Other teams will recognize that.

    ==============

    I wouldn’t trade him for what other teams would be willing to offer right now, so i may have used the wrong term, but for what i could get for him there is cero chance i”l do it.

  168. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 9:49 pm

    Mick-

    Didn’t you see the missing tire tracks at the accident site ?

    Easy clue.

    ;)

  169. austinmac April 14th, 2012 at 9:52 pm

    Hughes and Garcia will start until Andy or Pineda seem ready to help. The performance will dictate who is replaced. They still have a few more starts to show they deserve to pitch.

  170. blake April 14th, 2012 at 9:53 pm

    Noesi is probably thinking…..man pitching against the A’s at Safeco is a lot easier than against the Rangers in Arlington.

  171. GreenBeret7 April 14th, 2012 at 9:55 pm

    Wasn’t the Braves supposed to have a hotshot young pitcher by the name of Carlos Perez?

  172. Yank1 April 14th, 2012 at 9:55 pm

    Honestly, how many other GMs still view Hughes as a future ace like he was projected to be?

    At this point, he is a guy with a nice fastball that he has not shown he can sustain for an extended period of time.

    Trenton was a long time ago. He’s no longer the guy with the sick 95 moving FB, lights out curve, developing change and pinpoint command.

  173. BD (Boston Dave) April 14th, 2012 at 9:55 pm

    “Seriously, Pineda better be freakin’ dominant and durable or I will get even sicker every time I think about that cf of a trade.”

    ———-

    Rich,

    almost as sick as I am of hearing about it from you and the rest

    get over it already

  174. blake April 14th, 2012 at 9:55 pm

    Montero is catching too BTW

  175. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 9:55 pm

    Randy-

    Offense. Defense. Defense. Offense.

    I understand your dilemma.

    Pick Offense though. You’ll be happier.

    You like mashing.

    ;)

  176. luis April 14th, 2012 at 9:57 pm

    jacksquat April 14th, 2012 at 9:45 pm

    I think on a strictly value in isolation standpoint, Pineda/Campos for Montero/Noesi was a fair trade. I think it will work out well for both sides.

    ============================

    In isolation you could make a case that the Yankees came up on top. But a trade cannot be made or analyze in isolation. If you take in to account the particular situation of the Yankees and M’s…The M’s came out really on top.

  177. Nick in SF April 14th, 2012 at 9:58 pm

    How many times did Montero catch Noesi in AAA?

  178. igotid88 April 14th, 2012 at 9:58 pm

    http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play......79764-1122

  179. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 9:59 pm

    I don’t think nobody came out on top cause it’s too soon to tell.

    But the pendulum did swing a little in the M’s favor tonight.

    :(

  180. tucker April 14th, 2012 at 10:00 pm

    Rich, those are fair points. Hughes should have spent significant time in the minors in 07 and 08 and been forced to work on his secondary pitches.

    But circumstances were that the Yankees staff was a train wreck in 07, and Cashman was naively thought that Hughes, Kennedy and a stretched-out Joba could anchor the staff in 2008. He believed a little too much in the September results of 2007.

    I agree that it would be a wasted to make him the 6th inning guy. Hughes has a live arm and some talent, just maybe not as much as we were led to believe 5-6 years ago.

    I think it was telling last year that the Rockies asked for Nova for Ubaldo Jimenez, but the Yanks pulled back Nova and offered Hughes instead. The Rockies balked at that trade.

    With the new wave of talented, young, hard-throwing pitchers emerging in the MLB, I don’t think Hughes has much trade value right now. These emergence of young arms is one reason I think Jack Z correctly evaluated — and Cashman whiffed — on the fact that young, elite bats are more valuable right now than young, elite arms.

  181. Nick in SF April 14th, 2012 at 10:01 pm

    “But the pendulum did swing a little in the M’s favor tonight.”

    You mean in the real world or in the world of the perception of people who are stridently anti-trade to begin with?

  182. jacksquat April 14th, 2012 at 10:02 pm

    luis April 14th, 2012 at 9:57 pm
    jacksquat April 14th, 2012 at 9:45 pm

    I think on a strictly value in isolation standpoint, Pineda/Campos for Montero/Noesi was a fair trade. I think it will work out well for both sides.

    ============================

    In isolation you could make a case that the Yankees came up on top. But a trade cannot be made or analyze in isolation. If you take in to account the particular situation of the Yankees and M’s…The M’s came out really on top.

    Well, some people are really worried about the offense, if not now, in the near future. I’m not as concerned.

  183. BD (Boston Dave) April 14th, 2012 at 10:03 pm

    Nick,

    the pendulum swung a little in the favor of irrationality long ago for those people

  184. Jerzz April 14th, 2012 at 10:03 pm

    “Seriously, Pineda better be freakin’ dominant and durable or I will get even sicker every time I think about that cf of a trade.”

    I don’t think we will ever get over the trade. It was so freakin dumb from the outset and unnecessary.

    As much as I supported Cashman, that move is indefensible and brings down his overall grade exponentially.

  185. luis April 14th, 2012 at 10:04 pm

    JS,

    They got offense that they needed…We got pitching that we got plenty of it.

  186. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 10:04 pm

    Nick-

    You’ll have solve that particular mystery yourself.

    I’m still here just sittin’ on the fence. Patiently waiting for more info. to come in.

    ;)

  187. blake April 14th, 2012 at 10:04 pm

    If the Yankees do decide at some point to take Hughes out of the rotation I hope they shop him instead of putting him in the bullpen….I’m not sure exactly how much value he has but perhaps a team out there would still buy on his upside or perhaps he could be part of a package for the type hitter they could use….this is hypothetical and I’d much prefer that he just pitch better and stay in the rotation……but just sayin…I think it’s going to ultimately come down to Hughes and Nova for a rotation spot at some point…….

  188. jacksquat April 14th, 2012 at 10:05 pm

    OWWWWW

  189. Jerzz April 14th, 2012 at 10:05 pm

    Cash just couldn’t leave well enough alone – he couldn’t be happy with a young Manny Ramirez… he tried to outsmart himself and acquire a pitcher he didn’t need, knowing full well the age and decline of his starting lineup.

  190. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 10:06 pm

    Blake-

    Nova is in.

    That leaves Hughes.

    ;)

  191. mick April 14th, 2012 at 10:07 pm

    4 IP, 107 pitches for Noesi
    only 2 hits

  192. Bret The Hitman April 14th, 2012 at 10:08 pm

    Blake,

    Keep your grubby little mitts off Nova. :)

  193. Nick in SF April 14th, 2012 at 10:08 pm

    Well, I’m going to say that the pendulum didn’t really move at all unless one was under the impression that Mariner Montero was going to be nothing but a glorified singles hitter.

    I think Montero’s power was known to the folks who traded him. He’s supposed to hit home runs. I’m banking on at least 19 more this year.

  194. blake April 14th, 2012 at 10:09 pm

    MTU,

    whichever of Pineda/Pettite comes back first is probably going to get Freddy’s spot IMO…..then when the other is ready it’s going to come down to Hughes and Nova if everyone else is healthy…..it may be a 3-4 start competition here for that spot….

  195. Bret The Hitman April 14th, 2012 at 10:10 pm

    It’s not Montero’s first major league HR, so the celebration is strange.

  196. igotid88 April 14th, 2012 at 10:11 pm

    The one thing I didn’t understand about the trade was why would the M’s trade Pineda. Isn’t 2 good starting pitchers better than 1?

  197. blake April 14th, 2012 at 10:11 pm

    Noesi only has 51 pitches according to gameday.

  198. Bret The Hitman April 14th, 2012 at 10:12 pm

    Blake,

    The competition is between Pineda and Hughes. Pettitte replaces Garcia and Nova is a mainstay in the yankee rotation – the next Wang-like rock.

  199. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 10:12 pm

    Blake-

    I like Phil.

    I’ve supported him thru thick and thin but if I were a bettin’ Man, which I’m not, I’d put my money, and a lot of it, squarely on Ivan Nova.

    You ?

  200. tucker April 14th, 2012 at 10:12 pm

    Blake, it’s possible that the Yanks’ grand plan has been to ship Hughes mid-season. It frankly makes the most sense based on the excess starting pitching combined with the Yanks’ new fiscal reality.

    Of course, it would help if Hughes established more value over the next couple of months.

  201. mick April 14th, 2012 at 10:12 pm

    Noesi only has 51 pitches according to gameday.
    ——————
    damn mlbtv…i thought that looked wrong

  202. Bret The Hitman April 14th, 2012 at 10:13 pm

    So Pineda vs. Hughes, go ahead and guess the outcome of that one.

  203. mick April 14th, 2012 at 10:15 pm

    say freddy and hughes continue to tank
    and pineda isn’t ready for awhile
    andy comes back May 1.
    don’t count out phelps for hughes spot

  204. blake April 14th, 2012 at 10:16 pm

    I don’t think they traded Montero for Pineda to not be in the rotation….if he gets healthy he’ll be in there…..to me it’s between Hughes to the pen or Nova to AAA …..and I agree with MTU….right now my money would be on Nova

  205. RMS April 14th, 2012 at 10:16 pm

    I think Montero’s power was known to the folks who traded him.

    ———————————————————————————————————–
    Sure was. If Girardi wasn’t so worried about the older Yankees, he could have caught Montero 40 or so games and used him at DH the majority of the time.

  206. Nick in SF April 14th, 2012 at 10:16 pm

    Hey, I thought the Rangers weren’t going to trail in this series. :mad:

  207. Bret The Hitman April 14th, 2012 at 10:16 pm

    Nope. Nova’s in. The competition is between Pineda and Hughes. Dam’s gonna give.

  208. Bronx Jeers April 14th, 2012 at 10:17 pm

    Montero grounds out !!!!!!

    (just tryin to keep things balanced) :wink:

  209. blake April 14th, 2012 at 10:17 pm

    I will say this ….Montero needs to work on his HR trot….he jobs weird

  210. blake April 14th, 2012 at 10:18 pm

    jogs

  211. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 10:19 pm

    Blake-

    “he jobs weird”

    say what ?

    Who’s he jobbin’ wierd ? And why ?

    :)

  212. Nick in SF April 14th, 2012 at 10:20 pm

    I wish I had action on Montero groundouts too. :oops:

    Quito is known for adventures? Fun adventures or carjackings?

  213. Tar April 14th, 2012 at 10:21 pm

    Montero needs to work on his HR trot….he jobs weird

    Haha Ive noticed it before. He has a very weird trot.

  214. blake April 14th, 2012 at 10:22 pm

    Well the trade is working out for Seattle so far tonight…..Montero has scored the only run and Noesi is throwing a shut out.

  215. igotid88 April 14th, 2012 at 10:22 pm

    I’m gonna be like most people here with Hughes and say we should trade Nova before his stock goes down.

  216. tucker April 14th, 2012 at 10:23 pm

    Noesi looks depressingly great. Fastball at 94-95, shifting easily to his changeup.Breaking ball is biting. A’s hitters are off balance …

  217. igotid88 April 14th, 2012 at 10:23 pm

    Hey Phelps pitched 2 good games. Let’s hurry and pull the trigger.

  218. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 10:24 pm

    Quit-O

    Why do you think they call it that Nick ?

    That’s a clue.

    After all, what’s in a name ?

    Stick to the countryside’s my advice.

    Check with Jeers though.

    He’s the expert.

    ;)

  219. igotid88 April 14th, 2012 at 10:24 pm

    The only trade I’m willing to make is Girardi for Mattingly.

  220. blake April 14th, 2012 at 10:25 pm

    ‘Noesi looks depressingly great. Fastball at 94-95, shifting easily to his changeup.Breaking ball is biting. A’s hitters are off balance …”

    yea….I really didn’t like losing him in the deal….they did have somewhat of a logjam but Noesi can pitch…….we have to hope Campos make THAT part of the deal worth it one day.

  221. jacksquat April 14th, 2012 at 10:26 pm

    Phelps’ sample size is small for sure, but it’s not about that, it’s about how he looks. He looks very good. It’s not as if he’s been lucky.

  222. randy l. April 14th, 2012 at 10:27 pm

    “Offense. Defense. Defense. Offense.

    I understand your dilemma.

    Pick Offense though. You’ll be happier.”

    mtu-

    good idea.

    i can’t tell you how impressed i am with that umpire though.

    can you imagine the courage he has standing right behind montero when the yankees said he couldn’t catch.

    just fearless i tell you :)

  223. J. Alfred Prufrock April 14th, 2012 at 10:27 pm

    igotid88 April 14th, 2012 at 10:24 pm
    The only trade I’m willing to make is Girardi for Mattingly.
    ///

    co-signed

  224. Benny Blanco April 14th, 2012 at 10:27 pm

    Not taking anything away from Noesi but it is….. the A’s lineup.?

  225. blake April 14th, 2012 at 10:28 pm

    If you look at Phelps’ numbers….he’s been good at every level all the way up through the minors….this isn’t the first success he’s had. He’s always known how to pitch….he pounds the zone and he has a good feel for what pitch to throw and when….the thing that’s exciting about him is that in addition to those things I think his stuff has taken a step forward this year….which is kinda a big deal when you’ve already got the pitchability part.

  226. tucker April 14th, 2012 at 10:28 pm

    I still have high hopes for Pineda. Last year, he looked like a No. 1 for the first few months of the season. If he recaptures that velocity and continues to develop his changeup, he can be an ace. That said, i would not mind if the Yanks allowed him to build himself back up with a couple of months at AAA. And force him to work on that CU …

  227. Jerzz April 14th, 2012 at 10:29 pm

    Because Mattingly has all those World Series titles and postseason births…. oh wait….

    This isn’t about Girardi telling Cashman at gunpoint to trade Montero, is it?

  228. randy l. April 14th, 2012 at 10:30 pm

    “Montero needs to work on his HR trot….he jobs weird

    Haha Ive noticed it before. He has a very weird trot.”

    he might have about 400 times to work on it.

  229. blake April 14th, 2012 at 10:31 pm

    I thought Hughes ditched the knuckle curve grip? If that picture above is from this year then I guess not….

  230. igotid88 April 14th, 2012 at 10:32 pm

    Jerzz April 14th, 2012 at 10:29 pm
    Because Mattingly has all those World Series titles and postseason births…. oh wait….

    This isn’t about Girardi telling Cashman at gunpoint to trade Montero, is it?
    —————————————————-

    It’s about me wanting my childhood hero back in pinstripes.

  231. blake April 14th, 2012 at 10:32 pm

    I’ve watched way too many Mariners games this year….

  232. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 10:33 pm

    Blake-

    Face it.

    Cashman got fleeced.

    Jobbed.

    Owned.

    Handled.

    Wonked.

    We’ve got a broken down potential ace pitcher, and a 19 yr. Venezuelan farmer’s boy.

    They’ve got Miguel Cabrera jr. and Ivan Nova the 2nd.

    Life just sucks.

    I hope Cashman will do the honorable thing.

    P.S. That scenario better be imaginary.

    :)

  233. Nick in SF April 14th, 2012 at 10:34 pm

    The Mariners are going to be smiling all season at the extra 17 viewers.

  234. blake April 14th, 2012 at 10:36 pm

    why does nobody talk about Tyler Austin much I wonder…..he has mashed everywhere he’s been so far….I mean we talk about him here but you don’t hear much mention of him otherwise.

  235. Melkmanisinhotlanta April 14th, 2012 at 10:36 pm

    Montero at .300 and hits his first HR 415 ft at difficult to hit in Safeco Field. Like I’ve said, Montero is going to make Cashman look like the over analytical dope that he is.

  236. Bronx Jeers April 14th, 2012 at 10:36 pm

    There’s a lot of tours to the mountains, volcanoes, rain forest etc.

    I’ve been to Ecuador about a dozen times and I’m still alive. Mostly Guayaquil as that’s where the family is but I’ve flown up to Quito a few times. I like it.

    All these cities like Lima, Bogota, Quito etc are dangerous by our standards. South-South America is safer.

  237. blake April 14th, 2012 at 10:38 pm

    “The Mariners are going to be smiling all season at the extra 17 viewers.”

    :)

    MTU,

    I thought you’d be a the saloon by now on Saturday night ;)

  238. Benny Blanco April 14th, 2012 at 10:38 pm

    Can’t believe you guys are saying that Cashman got fleeced. This is noesi’s second career start against the freggin A’s.

    Its way too early to predict who got fleeced and who didn’t. I want to see how montero handles adversity; specifically when he’s in the dog days of summer and he’s coming off a tough slump.

  239. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 10:39 pm

    Jeers-

    “south-south america” ?

    Is that like Anarctica ?

    Where are you sending Nick ?

    It’s safe but he’ll freeze to death.

    Bad idea.

    :(

  240. Nick in SF April 14th, 2012 at 10:39 pm

    I heard Guayaquil is more dangerous than Quito and like an open-air sauna. :shock:

  241. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 10:40 pm

    Benny-

    It was a joke.

    ;)

  242. Nick in SF April 14th, 2012 at 10:41 pm

    ugh, Ichiro fail in big RBI spot.

  243. Triple Short of a Cycle April 14th, 2012 at 10:41 pm

    Damn the Rangers could be the biggest cry babies in all of hockey. Lundquist won’t give credit to any of the goals. Called them lucky bounces. The coach is a raving lunatic. Does he ever think a penalty called against the Rangers is just? And the post game “analysis” is an extension of their coach

  244. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 10:44 pm

    Blake-

    It because of his name.

    If his name was “clay” instead of “tyler” he get more coverage.

    If his name was “wade” he’d get even more.

    It’s just that way with Texas-type names.

    Understand now ?

    I thought you would.

    ;)

  245. Benny Blanco April 14th, 2012 at 10:45 pm

    MTU,

    My apologies.. :) didn’t mean to take it out of context.

    Still frustrated that padawan hughes did not come thru today. Looks like a job for SUPERNOVA.

    If Nova shuts down the angels lineup tomorrow, I dont ever want to hear his name mentioned in trade talks ever again.

  246. Nick in SF April 14th, 2012 at 10:46 pm

    Bases full for the center of controversy.

  247. Triple Short of a Cycle April 14th, 2012 at 10:47 pm

    2 run double for Montero

  248. Triple Short of a Cycle April 14th, 2012 at 10:47 pm

    Damn this trade is going to hurt for a long time

  249. Jason22 April 14th, 2012 at 10:48 pm

    blake, they are going to start talking about Tyler Austin, and soon, the kid is a pure hitter.

    Before this season the knock on him was, he is not a third or first baseman, so someone like Patrick Teale compared him a little bit to Laird, while acknowledging that he was a better athlete and had better plate discipline.

    Now that he is in right field, and supposedly very good out there, his name will start coming out of every local beat guy when they speak about Yankee prospects.

    Patrick T has already started to come around him by the way, and I think the Org really likes him a lot.

    Come on Jesus put this game away.

    Go the other way for a two run hit, yeah the Yankees have lots of hitters who do that:(

  250. tucker April 14th, 2012 at 10:48 pm

    Montero does it again. Would have been a bases-clearing double if Smoak could run. Mariners settle for two runs.

  251. Nick in SF April 14th, 2012 at 10:48 pm

    Nice oppo RBI hit. Don’t think that helps me, however.

  252. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 10:49 pm

    Benny-

    The sum of all that Ivan Nova is cannot be confined to a single entity or game.

    He will not be traded. If he is it better be for Justin Upton only.

    Even then I might not be happy.

    OTOH I might.

    :)

  253. jacksquat April 14th, 2012 at 10:50 pm

    A Jeterian swing by Montero.

  254. yankeefeminista April 14th, 2012 at 10:50 pm

    Yay Je-sus!

  255. REZ12 April 14th, 2012 at 10:50 pm

    Sigh

    I don’t want to pile on, but Pineda better get his #!! back here quick and start pitching well at the ML level.

    Noesi with a 7 inning shutout and Montero hitting extra base hits all over the place, damn you Cashman

  256. igotid88 April 14th, 2012 at 10:50 pm

    Montero got a hit with bases loaded. Definitely not Yankee material

  257. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 10:51 pm

    Nick-

    Check that pendulum again.

    :(

  258. Nick in SF April 14th, 2012 at 10:53 pm

    Ask not for whom the pendulum swings.

  259. tucker April 14th, 2012 at 10:54 pm

    And the M’s broadcast rubs it in a little with the trivia question noting the destination of the Titanic– New York.

  260. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 10:55 pm

    We only have one way to get out of this Montero mess now.

    Gary Sanchez.

    Gary.

    You better be frickin’ great.

    You feelin’ me.

    Over-the-top frickin’ great.

    Or we’re in trouble.

    We need lots of Sanchez Slams to balance things out.

    You can do it.

    ;)

  261. randy l. April 14th, 2012 at 10:55 pm

    this can’t be a good night for brian.

    maybe he should start practicing sucking on lemons.

  262. REZ12 April 14th, 2012 at 10:55 pm

    igotid88 April 14th, 2012 at 10:50 pm

    Montero got a hit with bases loaded. Definitely not Yankee material

    ————-

    If he were still here, he would be hitting .130 in all games that Hughes starts and .387 in games the other starters (especially Nova and CC) start.

  263. Bronx Jeers April 14th, 2012 at 10:57 pm

    I heard Guayaquil is more dangerous than Quito…

    ————————————————————————

    That’s probably true.

    Guayaquil can be hot but it’s not so bad in the summer. Quito is more like SF weather.

    Are you going to SA?

    MTU,

    Paraguay, Uruguay, Argentina & Chile.

  264. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 10:57 pm

    Randy-

    Or his rappelling technique.

    Quick getaway might be necessary.

    ;)

  265. randy l. April 14th, 2012 at 10:57 pm

    “We only have one way to get out of this Montero mess now.”

    mtu-

    i’m kinda having fun watching the mariners.

    we should thank brian for broadening our horizons :)

  266. J. Alfred Prufrock April 14th, 2012 at 10:58 pm

    No, if he were still here, he’d have taken up where he left off: .996 OPS and hitting line drives that travel forever.

  267. Nick in SF April 14th, 2012 at 11:02 pm

    Bronx Jeers, I recently got enough FF miles in one of my accounts to take a trip to norther south america. Columbia, Peru, Ecuador, Bolivia, si, Argentina, Chile, no.

    I doubt I’ll go anytime soon; I would miss randy too much.

  268. randy l. April 14th, 2012 at 11:02 pm

    “A Jeterian swing by Montero.”

    all kidding aside, how do pitchers pitch to montero when he can go the other way so easily?

    he takes that outside pitch right away.

  269. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 11:02 pm

    Randy-

    Gloating is not like floating.

    Remember that as you travel on the river of life.

    You did say you liked more than just the Yankees.

    so there ya’ go.

    You’re like a dual-national now. Only in baseball terms.

    ;)

  270. Eroc April 14th, 2012 at 11:04 pm

    It’s never a good sign when, the night the trade was made, the GM said he took an “enormous risk” while comparing the guy he traded away to Mike Piazza…. which he did.

  271. tucker April 14th, 2012 at 11:05 pm

    Gotta pitch Montero with soft stuff away and hope he chases — like he did in his second at bat, a dribbler to second.

  272. jacksquat April 14th, 2012 at 11:08 pm

    randy l. April 14th, 2012 at 11:02 pm
    “A Jeterian swing by Montero.”

    all kidding aside, how do pitchers pitch to montero when he can go the other way so easily?

    he takes that outside pitch right away.

    He does hit opposite field very well, and with authority, one of the things I’m impressed the most by.

  273. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 11:09 pm

    I gave you my only solution to the Montero problem.

    It’s time for bed now.

    Perhaps another answer will appear in a dream.

    You never know.

    :)

  274. jacksquat April 14th, 2012 at 11:10 pm

    Sanchez is what, minimum 3 years away?

  275. jacksquat April 14th, 2012 at 11:12 pm

    I hope Hughes is watching this game…

  276. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 11:13 pm

    Montero learned to hit in Venezuela that is what explains his ability and desire to hit to all fields.

    He wants to be fair and spread things around evenly.

    That’s what he was taught in his native Country.

    ;)

  277. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 11:15 pm

    Jack-

    At present that is the only hope.

    We must wait patiently.

    There is no other solution at the moment.

    :)

  278. Triple Short of a Cycle April 14th, 2012 at 11:15 pm

    He wants to be fair and spread things around evenly.

    That’s what he was taught in his native Country.

    —————————————————————

    lol

  279. randy l. April 14th, 2012 at 11:17 pm

    “You’re like a dual-national now. Only in baseball terms.”

    mtu-

    did we really think montero wasn’t going to hit.

    as far as gloating, i had an unfair advantage with knowing montero could catch; i actually knew how to catch. it made it kind of easy to see montero could catch too.

    now pineda also still could be the real deal.

    he’s a good kid.

    his success as a pitcher as nothing to do with montero .

    good night so far for montero and fans of montero.

  280. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 11:17 pm

    Triple-

    The next great Catcher out of Venezuela is likely to hit well only to right.

    ;)

  281. Melkmanisinhotlanta April 14th, 2012 at 11:18 pm

    Montero .323….Cashman, you sold the NYY out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

  282. MTU April 14th, 2012 at 11:21 pm

    Randy-

    I am at a loss for words at this time which is rare.

    I hope Pineda provides signifcant compensation.

    I wish Jesus well of course.

    We gave birth to him. Metaphorically speaking, of course.

    Have a good night.

    I need to dream of a new plan for the Yankee Catching dynasty.

    :)

  283. Bronx Jeers April 14th, 2012 at 11:24 pm

    Bronx Jeers, I recently got enough FF miles in one of my accounts to take a trip to norther south america. Columbia, Peru, Ecuador, Bolivia, si, Argentina, Chile, no.

    ————–

    I seem to always use my miles to go to SF.

    I’ll be down that way in Aug. Peru is a possibility for me as I have a brother in law there that’s always bugging me to visit.

  284. Against All Odds April 14th, 2012 at 11:29 pm

    jacksquat April 14th, 2012 at 11:10 pm

    Sanchez is what, minimum 3 years away?

    ————–

    Yep and not as good as a hitter but he’s still young.

  285. igotid88 April 14th, 2012 at 11:29 pm

    MTU April 14th, 2012 at 10:55 pm
    We only have one way to get out of this Montero mess now.

    Gary Sanchez.

    Gary.

    You better be frickin’ great.

    You feelin’ me.

    Over-the-top frickin’ great.

    Or we’re in trouble.

    We need lots of Sanchez Slams to balance things out.

    You can do it.
    —————————————————-

    There’s no guarantee he’ll even be with us when he’s ready. He’ll probably get traded away as well.

  286. Nick in SF April 14th, 2012 at 11:30 pm

    Is there a sports bar in Machu Piccu? First round is on me if they can pick up a Yankee game.

    Maybe Lima would be a little more practical?

  287. Benny Blanco April 14th, 2012 at 11:31 pm

    The montero love fest on here is sickening and It’s only been 7 or 8 games. Not sure If i’ll be able to handle 150 plus more games of the montero bromance.

  288. GreenBeret7 April 14th, 2012 at 11:31 pm

    What the Hell is Girardi thinking? Let Noesi finish the game up and get the shutout. Girardi’s the worst manager in baseball.

  289. jmv April 14th, 2012 at 11:32 pm

    MTU,

    Hi, how have you been?

    Actually, Montero didn’t get much playing time in Venezuela

  290. Nick in SF April 14th, 2012 at 11:33 pm

    The heart wants what it wants, Benny Blanco. ;)

  291. GreenBeret7 April 14th, 2012 at 11:35 pm

    Man…Did you see the way Montero got out of that crouch? Just like a pro.

  292. Nilsson April 14th, 2012 at 11:37 pm

    First time watching an M’s game live without the Yanks as an opponent.

    Nice job by Noesi. He’s underrated. If he stays healthy he’s gonna do well, especially pitching in that ballpark.

    Montero is a unique cat. I don’t know who taught him his swing but it’s special. That’s why the Carlos Lee comps always confused me. Carlos is a dead pull hitter.

    Nice start to the season for Austin Jackson, by the way.

  293. Against All Odds April 14th, 2012 at 11:38 pm

    Benny Blanco April 14th, 2012 at 11:31 pm

    The montero love fest on here is sickening and It’s only been 7 or 8 games. Not sure If i’ll be able to handle 150 plus more games of the montero bromance.

    ———————

    If Pineda pitches like many expect him too it should die down

  294. luis April 14th, 2012 at 11:39 pm

    jmv April 14th, 2012 at 11:32 pm

    MTU,

    Hi, how have you been?

    Actually, Montero didn’t get much playing time in Venezuela

    ===============================

    He played very little in La Liga Profesional…But he played a lot in the winter instructional league. I saw him play two and three years ago, a total 30 games.

  295. Rich in NJ April 14th, 2012 at 11:42 pm

    “this can’t be a good night for brian.”

    TBH, I don’t think he cares.

  296. jmv April 14th, 2012 at 11:45 pm

    Hey, Luis

    Tough day, isn’t it?

    Yes, I was talking about Magallanes

  297. luis April 14th, 2012 at 11:46 pm

    Against All Odds April 14th, 2012 at 11:38 pm

    Benny Blanco April 14th, 2012 at 11:31 pm

    The montero love fest on here is sickening and It’s only been 7 or 8 games. Not sure If i’ll be able to handle 150 plus more games of the montero bromance.

    ———————

    If Pineda pitches like many expect him too it should die down

    =========================

    Not even then, i’ll tell you why. Every time Russel Munson swings from his heals and fails, and then we see that the M’s have a 900 OPS catcher that has an OBP of 340-380, we are going to be reminded

    Every time Cano is walked because they rather face an old batter behind him, we are going to be reminded.

    Every time that someone brings that fact that our offense is struggling against right handed pitchers, we will be reminded.

    The only way it could hurt less, is that Sanchez can become that force….That’s three long years away.

  298. Betsy April 14th, 2012 at 11:47 pm

    Why should he care? It’s one freaking night in one year of Montero and Noesi’s career. Pineda has already had a very good year at age 22 in the big leagues, but I suppose that doesn’t count. People talk about taking the long view with youngsters, but that doesn’t seem to apply to Pineda. Cashman shouldn’t care one bit about what happened tonight on Mariner’s Blog central.

  299. Rich in NJ April 14th, 2012 at 11:47 pm

    “The only way it could hurt less, is that Sanchez can become that force….That’s three long years away.”

    When and if that happens, was the time to trade Montero, not before.

  300. Rich in NJ April 14th, 2012 at 11:48 pm

    “Why should he care?”

    He shouldn’t. He likes taking risks. he said so when he made the trade.

  301. luis April 14th, 2012 at 11:49 pm

    jmv April 14th, 2012 at 11:45 pm

    Hey, Luis

    Tough day, isn’t it?

    Yes, I was talking about Magallanes

    ==========================

    Yup, he just played like 10-15 games with them, thank God. i gather that you are a Magallanero?

    For me it isn’t. But for Cashman……That’s another story :)

  302. Yank1 April 14th, 2012 at 11:51 pm

    Noesi is more advanced than Hughes as a pitcher

  303. Nick in SF April 14th, 2012 at 11:51 pm

    If the Yankees win the World Series, will people cry because Montero can’t ride in the parade? :lol:

  304. luis April 14th, 2012 at 11:52 pm

    Rich in NJ April 14th, 2012 at 11:47 pm

    “The only way it could hurt less, is that Sanchez can become that force….That’s three long years away.”

    When and if that happens, was the time to trade Montero, not before.

    =========================

    By then Rich, Tex contract is up….So you move him to first or you have a powerful tandem of C/DH in those two. That kind of talent you keep it to your self.

  305. Betsy April 14th, 2012 at 11:52 pm

    Rich, whether it’s Cashman or another GM with another trade, they have to always have the long view in mind. No GM in his right mind would decide a trade they made was bad or good based on one game, two games, 100 games, particularly when it involves young players.

  306. Rich in NJ April 14th, 2012 at 11:53 pm

    “If the Yankees win the World Series, will people cry because Montero can’t ride in the parade?”

    I think some people will after they win the 2012 and 2013 WS, but by the time they win the 2014 and 2015 WS, it should start to abate.

  307. luis April 14th, 2012 at 11:53 pm

    Nick in SF April 14th, 2012 at 11:51 pm

    If the Yankees win the World Series, will people cry because Montero can’t ride in the parade? :lol:

    =============================================
    :D I don’t think so…. And I am a big fan of Montero

  308. Bronx Jeers April 14th, 2012 at 11:54 pm

    I wouldn’t go to Peru if you weren’t going to Machu Pichu.

    I’d definitely consider Quito. 9,000 feet up and at the base of an active volcano. Who could ask for more?

  309. Rich in NJ April 14th, 2012 at 11:55 pm

    Betsy

    Given the fragility of pitchers, especially those under age 26, I’m not sure how trading a potential impact bat for a pitcher is an example of taking the long view.

  310. ET April 14th, 2012 at 11:55 pm

    The trade wouldn’t have been so tough to take if we were not so anemic in the farm at hitting talent and if our everyday lineup wasn’t 32+ years old with no solutions on the horizon.

    They’ll turn into the Phillies in a couple of years if they don’t find a way to infuse some youth into the lineup. How much longer are they going to rely on a broken-down A-Rod to carry them?

  311. Rich in NJ April 14th, 2012 at 11:56 pm

    “By then Rich, Tex contract is up….So you move him to first or you have a powerful tandem of C/DH in those two. That kind of talent you keep it to your self.”

    luis

    I’m just saying that at that point they would actually know what Sanchez is.

  312. randy l. April 14th, 2012 at 11:57 pm

    so we have the fact that montero caught a shutout.

    we also know that there are catchers who are better defensively than he is.

    however, how many less runs would the a;s have scored with these better catchers?

    the answer is of course zero less runs.

    offensively , how many less runs would the mariners have scored without montero.

    maybe 4 less runs.

    so montero catching tonight might have had a plus swing of 4 runs tonight over a better weak hitting defensive catcher.

    this is precisely why so many of us wanted him playing for the yankees.

  313. jmv April 14th, 2012 at 11:57 pm

    Luis,

    You got me! I used to root for Magallanes, mostly as a kid, just because my father used to root for them, now I’m more analytical. Mostly disappointed after all the decadence of Venezuela in recents Series del Caribe

  314. GreenBeret7 April 14th, 2012 at 11:58 pm

    Noesi also had an extra 150 innings in the minors to lear. Hughes was trying to learn on the job at the highest levels, where experimenting doesn’t happen.

  315. GreenBeret7 April 14th, 2012 at 11:59 pm

    in the minors to ***learn***

  316. luis April 14th, 2012 at 11:59 pm

    Rich in NJ April 14th, 2012 at 11:55 pm

    Betsy

    Given the fragility of pitchers, especially those under age 26, I’m not sure how trading a potential impact bat for a pitcher is an example of taking the long view.

    ==================================

    This…..

    Especially with all the pitching depth the Yankees had…..For another potential impact bat, i would have understood it. But i would have never liked it though

  317. Rich in NJ April 14th, 2012 at 11:59 pm

    randy

    The Yankees are stacked with catching prospects so they had the depth to trade Montero. The fact that they traded for Stewart does nothing to detract from that fact. Oh wait…

  318. Betsy April 15th, 2012 at 12:00 am

    Rich, clearly Cashman values pitching a great deal and I’m sure he figures that the more arms you stockpile, the better, especially as except for Nova, they don’t seem to be able to develop any arms.

    There’s no point in debating the trade anymore as we’ve all made our positions plain…….I guess this subject will never die as long as we have to have these updates. If for no other reason than this, I wish we had an ignore button.

  319. Nick in SF April 15th, 2012 at 12:00 am

    Well, if La Paz is 11,000 feet up, that’s more. But no volcano. Hmmmm.

    I might put Cartagena on my list if I can get some Secret Service referrals. ;)

  320. randy l. April 15th, 2012 at 12:00 am

    the yankees whole position was based on montero not being able to catch.

    well guess what, he can catch.

    now where does that leave cashman supporters?

  321. Betsy April 15th, 2012 at 12:01 am

    I admit that the lack of hitting in the minors and age of the lineup concerns me. Heck, not just the age, but the all or nothing quality – plus the fact that Texeira is not close to the player he used to be.

  322. luis April 15th, 2012 at 12:01 am

    randy l. April 14th, 2012 at 11:57 pm

    so we have the fact that montero caught a shutout.

    we also know that there are catchers who are better defensively than he is.

    however, how many less runs would the a;s have scored with these better catchers?

    the answer is of course zero less runs.

    offensively , how many less runs would the mariners have scored without montero.

    maybe 4 less runs.

    so montero catching tonight might have had a plus swing of 4 runs tonight over a better weak hitting defensive catcher.

    this is precisely why so many of us wanted him playing for the yankees.

    ==========================

    This…….

  323. Rich in NJ April 15th, 2012 at 12:02 am

    Betsy

    When is the last time that Cashman made a good trade for a big-time starting pitcher?

    Pineda still needs developing. With their track record, how are they going to accomplish that?

    As I have said, I wish the topic would go away, but it won’t, so I have to engage.

  324. Nick in SF April 15th, 2012 at 12:02 am

    “the yankees whole position was based on montero not being able to catch.”

    According to whom? You seem to forget that you repeating something over and over doesn’t make it any more true.

  325. Against All Odds April 15th, 2012 at 12:03 am

    Good point Luis I didn’t think about it that way.

  326. Betsy April 15th, 2012 at 12:03 am

    Who says he can catch?

    It is possible to have differing opinions and still be civil…………so we Cashman supporters are doing just fine.

  327. Jerzz April 15th, 2012 at 12:04 am

    Montero is ready to be an all-star hitter right now in the major leagues. He is hitting 5th for an MLB team at age 21.

    Sanchez has a long way to go before reaching that status.

    Besides, then they could have had Cano-Sanchez-Montero anchoring the lineup. Either way, it is always going to be a void.

    If this was 2008 AJ Burnett-esque, where they NEEDED the pitcher, fine. Wouldn’t support the move, but would understand it. What was their need this year? He talked all winter about how Hughes is going to win 15 games minimum, yet he felt the need to sign Kuroda, trade his only young hitter anywhere close to the bigs away, and initiated contact with Pettite multiple times.

    You hope Cashman has a plan to get some young stud bats, but considering how scare they are, I am afraid to see what he might give up just to get one not as good as Montero. It is like Cashman is living in an alternate universe where players don’t age – that is the only way he could be satisfied with this lineup long term. Oh, and the idea of staying with a budget, yet Martin, Granderson, and Swisher are FAs in the next 2 years and Cano is going to get $200 million.

  328. GreenBeret7 April 15th, 2012 at 12:04 am

    At know time did I ever hear or read anyone from the Yankee front office say the Montero couldn’t catch, no matter how much this is repeated. It’s as much BS as those saying Girardi didn’t want a catcher that could hit better than him. That would include Martin and just about any catcher in baseball.

  329. Rich in NJ April 15th, 2012 at 12:04 am

    “Who says he can catch?”

    The fact that he’s catching.

  330. tucker April 15th, 2012 at 12:04 am

    Another ex-Yankee alert. Melky up w bases loaded bottom of 9th.

  331. luis April 15th, 2012 at 12:04 am

    jmv April 14th, 2012 at 11:57 pm

    Luis,

    You got me! I used to root for Magallanes, mostly as a kid, just because my father used to root for them, now I’m more analytical. Mostly disappointed after all the decadence of Venezuela in recents Series del Caribe

    =========================

    Then i can’t like you, I am “Caraquista hasta la médula” ;) To be honest, i don’t follow it as much as i did…The format of the championship is not appealing to me anymore…Plus after they sold the team to Cisneros i am somewhat lukewarm.

  332. Betsy April 15th, 2012 at 12:05 am

    Rich, Pineda may still need developing, but he’s so talented that he can still be quite successful in the majors. The only reason he’s not here is because of his health. That’s the thing that ticks me off. Girardi saying a ST game was big and clearly making certain that the kid pushed himself beyond where he should. That’s just brutally bad.

  333. Nick in SF April 15th, 2012 at 12:05 am

    I’m looking for a Melky walkoff.

  334. GreenBeret7 April 15th, 2012 at 12:06 am

    At ***no*** time did I

  335. Against All Odds April 15th, 2012 at 12:06 am

    now where does that leave cashman supporters?

    —————————-

    He’s playing on a team with no pressure lol.

  336. Betsy April 15th, 2012 at 12:07 am

    Rich, playing a position doesn’t mean you’ll be any good at it. Nunez is an INF, but he is the worst fielder I’ve ever seen. I’m not saying Montero can’t be a decent catcher, but the fact that he’s behind the plate tonight and will be for the M’s doesn’t mean that much.

  337. luis April 15th, 2012 at 12:07 am

    Rich in NJ April 14th, 2012 at 11:56 pm

    “By then Rich, Tex contract is up….So you move him to first or you have a powerful tandem of C/DH in those two. That kind of talent you keep it to your self.”

    luis

    I’m just saying that at that point they would actually know what Sanchez is.

    ====================

    Point taken

  338. Rich in NJ April 15th, 2012 at 12:08 am

    Betsy

    Hughes and Joba were once considered to be very talented too, and each has had some success as a ML starter. The Yankees have been unable to successfully finish off their development.

    Yes, as I said, pitchers, especially young pitchers, are health risks.

  339. tucker April 15th, 2012 at 12:08 am

    And the Melk Man delivers …

  340. Nick in SF April 15th, 2012 at 12:09 am

    Walkoff error, but Melky is still smiling. :grin:

  341. luis April 15th, 2012 at 12:10 am

    Against All Odds April 15th, 2012 at 12:03 am

    Good point Luis I didn’t think about it that way.

    ==========================

    That’s why i say that no matter how good Pineda becomes, it has no bearing in the actual quality of the trade. It was bad trade, no matter what happens with Pineda.

  342. randy l. April 15th, 2012 at 12:10 am

    “Who says he can catch?”

    i said it over a year ago.

    i guess tonight showed i might be on to something.

  343. Betsy April 15th, 2012 at 12:11 am

    Geez, I hope it’s not true, but reports are that Robin Gibb is in a coma. I know many people hate disco-era music, but I love the Bee Gees. That family has been dealt a terrible hand recently. Robin is very sick; if he passes, Barry will be the only one left. How depressing.

  344. Rich in NJ April 15th, 2012 at 12:11 am

    Betsy

    If Nunez could OPS .850- 900, most people would forget about his defensive shortcomings pretty quickly.

    In a similar vein, even those that criticized Jeter’s defense over the years had to acknowledge that he has been one of the greatest offensive SS of all time and that as a result, they’d love to have him on their team.

  345. Eroc April 15th, 2012 at 12:11 am

    Again, the night the trade was made, Cashman himself said he took an “enormous risk” and said Montero IS Piazza and Cabrera. That’s not paraphrasing – check out old quotes from that night.

    He repeated himself this spring about how this trade could back-fire on him. Why should we be confident in the trade when the GM is still in wait and see mode?

    I also agree with Rich – they didn’t get King Felix here, a completely finished product who doesn’t need guidance or development. Pineda is very much still a developing product with good stuff and a brief period of success like many before him. Unfortunately, what has this organization shown in terms of knowing how to develop pitching?

    The guy is there with his shoulder flying all over the place trying to generate extra velocity when he didn’t have any and not even a visit to the mound by Rothschild.

    They simply have not demonstrated they have a clue how to complete the development of a young pitcher. Then you throw in the fragility of pitchers in general, how Pineda already had elbow problems in the minors, and bam… an “enormous risk” as the own GM put it, one that didn’t have to be made in the least.

  346. Betsy April 15th, 2012 at 12:11 am

    I don’t see how tonight shows anything, but that’s ok – we can agree to disagree.

  347. Bo knows April 15th, 2012 at 12:12 am

    Ask not for whom the bell tolls – It tolls for thee

  348. jmv April 15th, 2012 at 12:12 am

    Luis,

    Let’s keep it about the Yankees, LOL. I agree, LVBP isn’t living her best years…

  349. Betsy April 15th, 2012 at 12:13 am

    Rich, no way. I wouldn’t. I don’t like him at all. He’s a DH waiting to happen except he’s not nearly good enough to just DH – that’s for either hitters like Edgar Martinez or genuine sluggers. Nunez is god-awful in the field and is already getting too much playing time. He’s swiss cheese and while people complain about Ibanez, this kid has been costing pitchers runs and extra pitches for over a year.

  350. Rich in NJ April 15th, 2012 at 12:14 am

    If Ibanez puts up a .900 OPS, people like me will shut up about his defense, Betsy.

  351. Eroc April 15th, 2012 at 12:14 am

    Cash said this spring they want to get Nunez 350 ABs because he has a live bat

  352. Betsy April 15th, 2012 at 12:15 am

    Also Rich, it’s one thing to be average defensively, but Nunez is an outright butcher. I never thought Jeter was bad at ALL at SS – I thought he was good. I don’t pay any attention to alphabet soup stats and absolutely none to ridiculous defensive metrics.

  353. GreenBeret7 April 15th, 2012 at 12:15 am

    It’s really early in the season, but, Sanchez seems to have improved his defense. 4 of 11 base stealers caught, no errors and no passed balls. Strikeouts are still a little high, but his walks are up.

  354. Nick in SF April 15th, 2012 at 12:15 am

    The operative question is, who in the NYY said that Montero could not catch and /or said anything about his catching skills as a justification for the trade?

    That rationale has been bandied about back and forth both by detractors and supporters, but that doesn’t make it, you know, true.

  355. Betsy April 15th, 2012 at 12:16 am

    Rich, I won’t…….he’s beyond awful. In any case, it’s not like he’s some great hitter.

    Eroc, maybe so, but he plays like a corpse in the field.

  356. luis April 15th, 2012 at 12:18 am

    Betsy April 15th, 2012 at 12:15 am

    Also Rich, it’s one thing to be average defensively, but Nunez is an outright butcher. I never thought Jeter was bad at ALL at SS – I thought he was good. I don’t pay any attention to alphabet soup stats and absolutely none to ridiculous defensive metrics.

    ==============================

    Bets,

    If given enough reps…Nunez will become a serviceable SS…He needs to work on his footwork and educate that big arm of his…Unlike hitting tools ( either you have them or you don’t), you can actually learn to play reasonable defense.

  357. Against All Odds April 15th, 2012 at 12:18 am

    luis April 15th, 2012 at 12:10 am

    Against All Odds April 15th, 2012 at 12:03 am

    Good point Luis I didn’t think about it that way.

    ==========================

    That’s why i say that no matter how good Pineda becomes, it has no bearing in the actual quality of the trade. It was bad trade, no matter what happens with Pineda.

    ————————

    You’re not the only one that feels that way. Many fans share the same belief.

  358. Against All Odds April 15th, 2012 at 12:20 am

    GreenBeret7 April 15th, 2012 at 12:15 am

    It’s really early in the season, but, Sanchez seems to have improved his defense. 4 of 11 base stealers caught, no errors and no passed balls. Strikeouts are still a little high, but his walks are up.

    ———————

    It just sucks that he’s not closer to the bigs.

  359. Betsy April 15th, 2012 at 12:22 am

    Luis, I don’t hold out much hope for Nunez…..

  360. jacksquat April 15th, 2012 at 12:22 am

    randy l. April 15th, 2012 at 12:00 am
    the yankees whole position was based on montero not being able to catch.

    well guess what, he can catch.

    now where does that leave cashman supporters?

    Like I said earlier, I don’t think it was just a matter of can he catch at all, I think Girardi wants above average defensive catchers, see trade for Stewart. Plus the revolving DH thing.

    Note that I am not endorsing that philosophy, just saying I think those were reasons he was traded, not that he “couldn’t catch”.

  361. randy l. April 15th, 2012 at 12:22 am

    “Girardi saying a ST game was big and clearly making certain that the kid pushed himself beyond where he should. That’s just brutally bad.”

    betsy-

    the yankees screwed up with pineda and they screwed up with evaluating montero.

    i like pineda just fine. i like montero just fine.

    i don’t like yankee incompetence.

  362. Rich in NJ April 15th, 2012 at 12:24 am

    btw, Betsy, I don’t think Nunez is good enough offensively to offset Jeter and/or A-Rod’s offense when he plays, which will seemingly be fairly often. So, imo, if Montero was to be traded, it should have been for a young SS/3B with offensive upside, who could play a corner OF on the days when both played the field. No, I don’t know who that is, and no, I don’t know if that player would be available now, but what was the rush to trade Montero?

  363. luis April 15th, 2012 at 12:24 am

    Nick,

    The whole argument from the pro trade faction has been this:

    1)The Yankees had no pitching or to many question marks.

    2)Montero had no position, because he couldn’t catch and they needed the DH spot for the vets

    It has been discussed at nauseaum not only here, but most beat writers have used those as their main reasons to justify the trade. I don’t remember the FO ever saying it so. But everyone has assumed that as a fact.

    If this two prove to be wrong, the logic for trading Montero falls apart.

  364. Bo knows April 15th, 2012 at 12:25 am

    You’re not the only one that feels that way. Many fans share the same belief.

    ——————————–

    and your point is?

    Why don’t you people itemize your comments as in C1,C2 and so on. Save on typing and so on.

    Because you haven’t said a new thing in months. Squeaky wheel and so on

  365. Against All Odds April 15th, 2012 at 12:27 am

    SMH what’s your problem exactly?

  366. luis April 15th, 2012 at 12:27 am

    jacksquat April 15th, 2012 at 12:22 am

    randy l. April 15th, 2012 at 12:00 am
    the yankees whole position was based on montero not being able to catch.

    well guess what, he can catch.

    now where does that leave cashman supporters?

    Like I said earlier, I don’t think it was just a matter of can he catch at all, I think Girardi wants above average defensive catchers, see trade for Stewart. Plus the revolving DH thing.

    Note that I am not endorsing that philosophy, just saying I think those were reasons he was traded, not that he “couldn’t catch”.

    ============================

    Sorry JS, that’s not a reason to trade an impact bat. If that had something to do with they both should be fired on the spot.

  367. Rich in NJ April 15th, 2012 at 12:30 am

    Maybe we can all agree on one thing…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAxm_GSM7L4

  368. luis April 15th, 2012 at 12:31 am

    Bo knows April 15th, 2012 at 12:25 am

    You’re not the only one that feels that way. Many fans share the same belief.

    ——————————–

    and your point is?

    Why don’t you people itemize your comments as in C1,C2 and so on. Save on typing and so on.

    Because you haven’t said a new thing in months. Squeaky wheel and so on

    =========================

    Sorry to cut in, but the discussion has evolved….Most of our objections has been proven right. Except that the offense will decline in the future

  369. randy l. April 15th, 2012 at 12:31 am

    “The whole argument from the pro trade faction has been this:

    1)The Yankees had no pitching or to many question marks.

    2)Montero had no position, because he couldn’t catch and they needed the DH spot for the vets

    It has been discussed at nauseaum not only here, but most beat writers have used those as their main reasons to justify the trade. I don’t remember the FO ever saying it so. But everyone has assumed that as a fact.

    If this two prove to be wrong, the logic for trading Montero falls apart. ”

    nice summary luis

  370. J. Alfred Prufrock April 15th, 2012 at 12:32 am

    Nick in SF April 15th, 2012 at 12:15 am
    The operative question is, who in the NYY said that Montero could not catch and /or said anything about his catching skills as a justification for the trade?

    That rationale has been bandied about back and forth both by detractors and supporters, but that doesn’t make it, you know, true.
    ///

    Well maybe it’s an assumption being made, since the “word” from all media is that they couldn’t spare the DH for him, since they needed it for the geriatric ward?? If they were going to catch him, why would they be worried he’d have a stranglehold on the DH spot?

  371. yankeefeminista April 15th, 2012 at 12:34 am

    luis April 15th, 2012 at 12:24 am
    Nick,

    The whole argument from the pro trade faction has been this:

    1)The Yankees had no pitching or to many question marks.

    2)Montero had no position, because he couldn’t catch and they needed the DH spot for the vets

    It has been discussed at nauseaum not only here, but most beat writers have used those as their main reasons to justify the trade. I don’t remember the FO ever saying it so. But everyone has assumed that as a fact.

    If this two prove to be wrong, the logic for trading Montero falls apart.
    _______________
    Luis, And #3.) The Yankees already have plenty of offense.

  372. Rich in NJ April 15th, 2012 at 12:35 am

    “And #3.) The Yankees already have plenty of offense.”

    And #4.) Alex and Jeter will be forever young.

  373. J. Alfred Prufrock April 15th, 2012 at 12:37 am

    orry JS, that’s not a reason to trade an impact bat. If that had something to do with they both should be fired on the spot.
    ///

    Should have been met with a blank stare like they were speaking in tongues when they asked the owners to sign off on this. And then they should have been fired.

  374. yankeefeminista April 15th, 2012 at 12:37 am

    “And #4.) Alex and Jeter will be forever young.”

    Rich, here’s hoping.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLfrdRgpKfI

  375. Against All Odds April 15th, 2012 at 12:38 am

    #5)Giving up Montero was an easy move because they have Sanchez(who is only 18-19 yrs old and 3 yrs away)

  376. Nick in SF April 15th, 2012 at 12:38 am

    luis, the “pro trade faction” as vocal side in this debate is a number of people on this blog, not the Yankees.

    I can’t speak for them, but they don’t speak for the Yankees either. Just because some dope might make a dopey argument in favor of the trade doesn’t mean that the NYY made it for that dopey reason.

    Assuming something like that as fact isn’t so smart. This is one of the reasons why the debate has always been fractured; it’s easy to come up with obvious reasons to not like the trade, but nobody here knows all of the inner evaluations and factors that went into deciding to actually do it.

    “the yankees whole position was based on montero not being able to catch” is a theory presented as fact, often with bad intentions, but it doesn’t become more true because it’s passed back and forth like a twisted game of Telephone.

  377. luis April 15th, 2012 at 12:39 am

    Rich in NJ April 15th, 2012 at 12:35 am

    “And #3.) The Yankees already have plenty of offense.”

    And #4.) Alex and Jeter will be forever young.

    ==============================

    I knew that both Jeter and Arod were in the cast of Pirates of the Caribbean part 3 :)

  378. Rich in NJ April 15th, 2012 at 12:39 am

    I like it, yf!

  379. J. Alfred Prufrock April 15th, 2012 at 12:39 am

    Like I said earlier, I don’t think it was just a matter of can he catch at all, I think Girardi wants above average defensive catchers,
    ///

    I understand. I myself want an above average manager, but I don’t think I’m going to get my wish.

  380. luis April 15th, 2012 at 12:44 am

    Nick in SF April 15th, 2012 at 12:38 am

    luis, the “pro trade faction” as vocal side in this debate is a number of people on this blog, not the Yankees.

    I can’t speak for them, but they don’t speak for the Yankees either. Just because some dope might make a dopey argument in favor of the trade doesn’t mean that the NYY made it for that dopey reason.

    Assuming something like that as fact isn’t so smart. This is one of the reasons why the debate has always been fractured; it’s easy to come up with obvious reasons to not like the trade, but nobody here knows all of the inner evaluations and factors that went into deciding to actually do it.

    “the yankees whole position was based on montero not being able to catch” is a theory presented as fact, often with bad intentions, but it doesn’t become more true because it’s passed back and forth like a twisted game of Telephone.

    ==========================================

    Nick,

    Very good and thoughtful post. We can only guess, on this you are on target. But what other reason could have had an impact in this decision aside from the ones that we have already laid out? Make up of the kid?…Is he an injury waiting to happen?

  381. Rich in NJ April 15th, 2012 at 12:44 am

    Let’s say that Girardi does want above average defensive catchers, a position I agree with.

    So what? This is MLB, not the NFL or the NBA. Even if one views him as Miller Huggins incarnate, the most he effects is 5 games. He gets to manage one of the most talented rosters in baseball year in and year out and gets paid top dollar.

    If he doesn’t like it, then the TS doctrine (as an old law school prof would say) applies.

  382. yankeefeminista April 15th, 2012 at 12:44 am

    Rich, if you get to have one of our current players stay eternally young, who do you choose?

  383. Rich in NJ April 15th, 2012 at 12:45 am

    yf

    A-Rod, because of the contract. Right now, Jeter is cost-effective.

  384. randy l. April 15th, 2012 at 12:47 am

    montero can catch.

    the yankees didn’t think he could.

    end of story.

    i’m glad for the kid that he got away from the idiots holding him back.

    montero and noesi showed pure joy when they greeted each other after the game.

    it was nice to see.

  385. luis April 15th, 2012 at 12:47 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock April 15th, 2012 at 12:39 am

    Like I said earlier, I don’t think it was just a matter of can he catch at all, I think Girardi wants above average defensive catchers,
    ///

    I understand. I myself want an above average manager, but I don’t think I’m going to get my wish.
    +++++++++++1
    :D

  386. J. Alfred Prufrock April 15th, 2012 at 12:48 am

    Somebody suggested there was some mysterious reasoning behind this trade, too subtle for our pedestrian baseball fan minds. I reject this idea. I’m going with they’re just not all that bright.

  387. luis April 15th, 2012 at 12:49 am

    YF,

    The video was right on point.

    About a player to stay always young…..Jeter

  388. Bo knows April 15th, 2012 at 12:51 am

    Sorry to cut in, but the discussion has evolved….Most of our objections has been proven right. Except that the offense will decline in the future

    —————————–

    Evolved to what?

    It’s the same repetitive tripe. Another thousand posts on the subject will amount to what?

    We’re smart and you’re not?

    Any intelligent baseball fan sees the pros and cons. That smug, back patting is beyond tiresome. Thankfully the Ms play late at night.

    The trolls come on here, type “Montero” and it’s good for a sh*tstorm of a hundred posts.

    As Nick said – No one on the Yankees said that Montero couldn’t catch. No one said he couldn’t hit. It’s all made up agenda talk. It was an organizational decision.

    They can’t trade A Rod or Teix and with them not producing the offense is toast. That’s the heart of their order. Montero wouldn’t make a difference. Jeter found good chemistry but you have Cano and a bunch of Primadonnas. There are tough times ahead for Yankee Hi. So they had to go with top flight pitching.

    It’s all become verbal diarhea, useless drivel

  389. J. Alfred Prufrock April 15th, 2012 at 12:51 am

    montero and noesi showed pure joy when they greeted each other after the game.

    it was nice to see.
    ///

    yes, that was very nice to see. You’re glad for the kid, that he is being embraced by his pitcher and his team.

  390. Rich in NJ April 15th, 2012 at 12:51 am

    “montero and noesi showed pure joy when they greeted each other after the game.

    it was nice to see.”

    I must be one bitter #%##@ because I get no pleasure out of it. I root for cloth. I don’t trust the people behind that cloth. There isn’t anything I can do about it.

  391. Jerzz April 15th, 2012 at 12:52 am

    They didn’t even let Montero catch meaningless games last year just to give him experience. They had Austin Romine, who was sitting on his couch after the minor league season ended and didn’t know any pitchers or anything about the big leagues, come up and catch that same day, rather than let Montero, who was already with the team, catch 1 lousy game.

    And Cashman/Girardi’s explanation was that the team was in a “pennant race”. lol They had one of the most stress-free Septembers they’ve ever had last year. It was Boston/Tampa who were in a pennant race, we didn’t play many stressful games at all after Labor Day.

    They are just an incompetent bunch. They just have $$$ to cover it up.

  392. luis April 15th, 2012 at 12:52 am

    randy l. April 15th, 2012 at 12:47 am

    montero can catch.

    the yankees didn’t think he could.

    end of story.

    i’m glad for the kid that he got away from the idiots holding him back.

    montero and noesi showed pure joy when they greeted each other after the game.

    it was nice to see.

    ================================

    Did you watch the gesture from Noesi to Montero when they got out of the jam in the 8th? and the look of Montero gave back….He is a man on a mission, pure Yankee material.

  393. J. Alfred Prufrock April 15th, 2012 at 12:53 am

    luis April 15th, 2012 at 12:49 am
    YF,

    The video was right on point.

    About a player to stay always young…..Jeter
    ////

    Jeter will always be my Boy of Summer. Yes, Jeter’s my choice, too. Alex would be a close second (especially if he were to play SS).

  394. Rich in NJ April 15th, 2012 at 12:55 am

    “Montero wouldn’t make a difference.”

    And Pineda will?

  395. J. Alfred Prufrock April 15th, 2012 at 12:55 am

    Did you watch the gesture from Noesi to Montero when they got out of the jam in the 8th? and the look of Montero gave back….He is a man on a mission, pure Yankee material.
    ///

    Apparently, that turned them off. “This is MY house,” and such. Fools.

  396. yankeefeminista April 15th, 2012 at 12:56 am

    Rich, good point. Although position-wise, in terms of production, Jeter will be harder to replace. I doubt Cito et al will give us that OPS and we have decent options at 3rd in the long run in Bichette/Andujar if/when they make it to the majors.

  397. J. Alfred Prufrock April 15th, 2012 at 1:00 am

    I must be one bitter #%##@ because I get no pleasure out of it. I root for cloth. I don’t trust the people behind that cloth. There isn’t anything I can do about it.
    ////

    I have profound bitterness, too. But I’ll be damned if I’m not going to get the reward of seeing a kid I waited six years for enjoy the success he was supposed to achieve in pinstripes. It’s something of a schizophrenic feeling, because I have no interest in the fortunes of the Mariners, obviously. But I feel, aside from the very rational reasons you don’t make this trade, that they’ve robbed me of witnessing a very special career. They have: because it won’t unfold in pinstripes. But the player, I will follow and I will root for.

  398. luis April 15th, 2012 at 1:00 am

    They can’t trade A Rod or Teix and with them not producing the offense is toast. That’s the heart of their order. Montero wouldn’t make a difference. Jeter found good chemistry but you have Cano and a bunch of Primadonnas. There are tough times ahead for Yankee Hi. So they had to go with top flight pitching.

    ====================================

    So since they can’t trade Arod or Tex, the solution was to trade Montero, who was the only young cost control bat they could rely to protect Cano? Because they went for top flight pitching?

    Did we get Felix or Kershaw? We got a project, a little more advanced that our current top flight prospects, nothing more. Just a project for a guy that will catch and will bat.

  399. J. Alfred Prufrock April 15th, 2012 at 1:04 am

    Yankeefem, Andujar looked good in that video, both as a defender and also his explosive swing.

  400. Rich in NJ April 15th, 2012 at 1:04 am

    “But I’ll be damned if I’m not going to get the reward of seeing a kid I waited six years for enjoy the success he was supposed to achieve in pinstripes.”

    I’m certainly not trying to influence anyone else’s p.o.v, Pruf. I actually admire it.

    But as I think I have said, after watching McGriff, McGee, Drabek, and Buhner star for other teams in the ’80s, I thought the success of the Core 5 in the ’90s and ’00s ended that crap forever. Cashman talked a good game extending that legacy, but that’s what it has turned out to be, just talk.

  401. luis April 15th, 2012 at 1:06 am

    Another question: Where is Pineda pitching right now, is he really making a difference? Did we really needed him when we are so loaded with pitching that a guy like Phelps has no place in the rotation?

  402. Nick in SF April 15th, 2012 at 1:06 am

    “But what other reason could have had an impact in this decision aside from the ones that we have already laid out?”

    Lots of reasons and, more importantly, lots of combinations of reasons. LoHud used to be awash in quotes from Yankee coaches and front office types pumping up Montero as a catcher. That doesn’t for a second mean they believed it. We don’t know what the pro catchers in the system told Cashman in their final verdicts — nor do we know he asked them, of course.

    It’s weak thinking — or lack of thinking — to break it all down to “they don’t think he can catch, end of story” as the sole reason the trade happened. It’s a straw man so it can be knocked over by Montero catching a game. OMG, he has catching gear, oh snap on Cashman!

    You want to know why the trade happened? Probably some combination of every reason you can think of, and you should include all the positives that Pineda and Campos might bring, and the uncertainty of our “can’t miss” pitching prospects actually becoming dominant major league starters. Add it all up and maybe it’s a 50-50 trade, or 55-45, or 51-49. I don’t know.

    But when the people who were most stridently against the trade from the beginning are the ones who are deciding which of the “pro” arguments to believe and acknowledge, the “debate” itself is kind of a farce.

    And when you factor in biases and bitter grudges and agendas… well, we see the results every day on here.

    And the wind screams Montero.

  403. luis April 15th, 2012 at 1:08 am

    Rich in NJ April 15th, 2012 at 1:04 am

    “But I’ll be damned if I’m not going to get the reward of seeing a kid I waited six years for enjoy the success he was supposed to achieve in pinstripes.”

    I’m certainly not trying to influence anyone else’s p.o.v, Pruf. I actually admire it.

    But as I think I have said, after watching McGriff, McGee, Drabek, and Buhner star for other teams in the ’80s, I thought the success of the Core 5 in the ’90s and ’00s ended that crap forever. Cashman talked a good game extending that legacy, but that’s what it has turned out to be, just talk.

    ===================================

    +1

  404. Rich in NJ April 15th, 2012 at 1:10 am

    They pumped up Romine as a catcher too, even after his back problems last season. We were told that they had loads of catching depth. Before that we were told that they had loads of pitching depth, so much so that they would no longer have to sign free agents or trade for starters.

    And the wind screams..nothing worth listening to from the front office.

  405. Bo knows April 15th, 2012 at 1:11 am

    A Rod through Martin in today’s lineup on average are batting under 200. That ‘s five players out of nine. This is not offense in the future, this is now. Cano is getting jack. Jeter is now reported to be getting faster at 38. One of the natural wonders of the baseball world.

    Where’s this pitching cornucopia? Kuroda, Garcia and Pettite are one year bandaids, the Bs are not ready, Warren and Mitchell, who knows. Hughes is same old and no one trusts Nova.

    Tough times are now.

    Let’s do small sample size and hope.

  406. J. Alfred Prufrock April 15th, 2012 at 1:13 am

    Rich in NJ April 15th, 2012 at 1:04 am
    “But I’ll be damned if I’m not going to get the reward of seeing a kid I waited six years for enjoy the success he was supposed to achieve in pinstripes.”

    I’m certainly not trying to influence anyone else’s p.o.v, Pruf. I actually admire it.

    But as I think I have said, after watching McGriff, McGee, Drabek, and Buhner star for other teams in the ’80s, I thought the success of the Core 5 in the ’90s and ’00s ended that crap forever. Cashman talked a good game extending that legacy, but that’s what it has turned out to be, just talk.
    //

    Oh, I know. My brother runs into Bob Sykes’ sister every now and again, and it has sort of become a running joke between them that he tweaks her about her brother costing the Yankees McGee. You know, it’s a joke, but it sort of isn’t, too.

  407. Stoneburner April 15th, 2012 at 1:15 am

    Oh lol – I want to thank all the fan boys for these priceless overreaction comments tonight – it just reinvigorates me to carry on – too much – you would have thought someone won the WS tonight with some of these posts of a 2 for 3 performance and a HR and a 2B. And I also would like to see how Noesi does against the Rangers next time – a team with a real offense. Just too much – funny stuff – love how when Montero has a bad game – it is just considered one game – guy gets a couple of base hits in the power categories and people are declaring that their predictions are right –

    Side note: Montero allowed yet again another stolen base tonight – something to watch on the occasion he does catch. . . . .the waxing of the poetics of a former prospect – the favoritism and fan boy movement of prospect watching – which is just mainly going to milb.com and sites like Pinestripes Plus and then coming on here and thinking you know it all – when you really don’t – good stuff – and many thanks for the material tonight – will be using it in the future. . . . blogs are a great thing in that there is a record of what people write. . . . .

  408. Rich in NJ April 15th, 2012 at 1:16 am

    We got George Frazier too, Pruf!!!! :D

    Anyway, GN all.

  409. Rich in NJ April 15th, 2012 at 1:17 am

    Oh, before I go, fan boys are people who apologize for the front office of their team.

    But reality is a b…ch.

    GN.

  410. luis April 15th, 2012 at 1:17 am

    Nick,

    For my part i have no other agenda other than to express what i think. I am biased, and i have always recognized that fact, because i was really looking up to root for the first Venezuelan True Yankee player. But putting aside my obvious bias, i always try to keep an open mind. And as hard as i try to find logic in the move, i can’t find it. And believe me i have tried, because i would rather come to terms with the move than keep getting disappointed with it.

  411. Nick in SF April 15th, 2012 at 1:20 am

    There’s nothing wrong with being sad/mad because the player you liked a lot got traded away.

    It’s pretty common, actually. A typical fan thing. It’s how I felt as well.

  412. yankeefeminista April 15th, 2012 at 1:22 am

    GN.

  413. luis April 15th, 2012 at 1:23 am

    Good night Rich, take care.

    Also this fan boy is retreating to wax in and wax off his poetics with mr Miyagi. Have a good one Pruf, Bo, Nick, Yankeefem. et al….

  414. J. Alfred Prufrock April 15th, 2012 at 1:23 am

    Rich, he looked like Ron Guidry from far away. Didn’t pitch like him, however.

  415. J. Alfred Prufrock April 15th, 2012 at 1:25 am

    luis April 15th, 2012 at 1:23 am
    Good night Rich, take care.

    Also this fan boy is retreating to wax in and wax off his poetics with mr Miyagi. Have a good one Pruf, Bo, Nick, Yankeefem. et al….
    ///

    LOL! Good night, primo.

  416. Bo knows April 15th, 2012 at 1:30 am

    And believe me i have tried, because i would rather come to terms with the move than keep getting disappointed with it

    ———————————–

    That’s it, that’s the future. Five years from now, still more of this? Because that sounds pretty bleak.

    Baseball is a beautiful subtle game.

    You don’t enjoy a Nunez developing before your eyes? That great fielding play on a tough hop today, straight reaction, and a strike to first? He’s only played a handful of games at third. Cano going to his left, flagging down a smash.

    Because that’s baseball, not the suits making a business decision.

  417. J. Alfred Prufrock April 15th, 2012 at 1:38 am

    Bo Knows,

    Luis doesn’t appreciate Nunez developing or Cano hitting the ball the other way, because he thinks trading away Montero was a stupid move?

    Really, now.

    GN

  418. Bo knows April 15th, 2012 at 1:44 am

    Actually, I was a big Nova, Noesi fan. I can do a Randy and pull up a post from 2010 that Nova had a better arsenal than Hughes. I was on here last year, ranting that they were mishandling Noesi’s development by cutting down his innings. Get Kuroda as a stop gap, stretch out Noesi as number six and give ‘er.

    But I’ll be damned if I’m going to grieve indefinately because my hopes didn’t get realized.

  419. Bo knows April 15th, 2012 at 1:47 am

    Luis doesn’t appreciate Nunez developing or Cano hitting the ball the other way, because he thinks trading away Montero was a stupid move?

    ——————

    Still, the agenda I see.

    Context much?

  420. igotid88 April 15th, 2012 at 3:41 am

    I don’t get it. Now no one ever said he couldn’t catch? That’s all everyone talked and wrote about.

  421. blake April 15th, 2012 at 7:22 am

    Pretty good night for ex Yankees last night.

    AJax 3-4
    Montero 2-3 with a homer and 3 RBI
    Noesi 8 scoreless innings

    Certainly reflects fondly on the Yankees system……gotta think some team might be looking at Phelps as their next IPK…..should the Yanks be taking a closer look at some of these “second tier guys”?

  422. blake April 15th, 2012 at 7:32 am

    Watched some of the playback last night (because FOX allowed me) and I really think its time for Hughes to scrap the cutter……he does get some swings and misses with it times but its just too inconsistent and he gets hurt with it way too much…..

    When he throws good ones they are effective but for him its just a pitch that when he throws a bad one its literally pounded….seems like it’d a homer every time. He needs to either cut it all together or use it very sparingly IMO…..it just hurts him way too much.

  423. Villa Nova-Ya April 15th, 2012 at 7:40 am

    blake -

    I agree about Phil’s cutter. It’s way too inconsistent and the damage done on the bad ones doesn’t seem worth the few good ones he throws.

  424. Carlo April 15th, 2012 at 8:00 am

    Blake – he got away with some really bad cutters yesterday. Against aggressive hitters, that cutter is a liability. He doesn’t keep lefties honest with it and its not an out pitch. Its virtually a useless liability.

  425. Carlo April 15th, 2012 at 8:04 am

    Trading a phelps/banuelos/betances for a young impact bat at some point this year seems like a prudent logical move. Makes even more sense if andy and pineda can be effective by early summer thus freeing up hughes for the pen in phelps role should he continue to struggle.

  426. blake April 15th, 2012 at 8:07 am

    I just think its exactly what Villa said…..the benefits he gets from it don’t outweigh the damage that gets done against it……his bad cutters must just look like a beach ball coming in there..

  427. blake April 15th, 2012 at 8:14 am

    I agree that Cashman needs to scour the league for a young available bat…..and then try and trade from them. The Yanks have some really interesting hitters in A ball…..but they need someone to bridge the gap…..they need another prime age hitter IMO to complete the puzzle……they’ll score a lot of runs during the season just on pedigree and approach…..but come playoff time I think they’ll need another guy that a dominant pitcher has a tough tine with.

  428. MaineYankee April 15th, 2012 at 8:14 am

    blake April 15th, 2012 at 8:07 am
    I just think its exactly what Villa said…..the benefits he gets from it don’t outweigh the damage that gets done against it……his bad cutters must just look like a beach ball coming in there..

    —————————————————————————————–

    So the question is why does he still use it instead of something else?

    Before it was Eiland that got the blame but we are seeing the same thing now with Rothchild too.

    Not trying to blame the PC so maybe some of this problem of development should be put on the pitcher.

  429. blake April 15th, 2012 at 8:18 am

    And I’ve tried to stay out of the Montero stuff after initially giving my opinion on it…….but it IS difficult to sit there and watch the two guys the yanks traded just single handedly win a game last night…..while Pineda is on the DL…..

    Im willing to be patient and let it all play out….but on April 15th 2012……all I can say is that I wish Montero was in our lineup still and going forward……perhaps Pineda will make me forget about that….but he hasn’t yet.

  430. blake April 15th, 2012 at 8:21 am

    Maine,

    I think its like that golf shot that you hit well 7 out of 10 tines……but the 3 bad ones are shanks into the woods…….that lead to triple bogeys…..that’s phi’s cutter…..

  431. MaineYankee April 15th, 2012 at 8:22 am

    blake April 15th, 2012 at 8:14 am
    I agree that Cashman needs to scour the league for a young available bat…..and then try and trade from them. The Yanks have some really interesting hitters in A ball…..but they need someone to bridge the gap…..they need another prime age hitter IMO to complete the puzzle……they’ll score a lot of runs during the season just on pedigree and approach…..but come playoff time I think they’ll need another guy that a dominant pitcher has a tough tine with.

    ———————————————————————————

    Wouldn’t you think Cashman is always looking ahead to improve this club?

    He has proven in the past based on the Santana deal and waiting for CC that he does have a plan. We just can’t know what it is based on what is in the media.

    Often what is in the media is a smokescreen for what is actually being planned.

  432. blake April 15th, 2012 at 8:27 am

    Maine,

    Sure….I hope so……I just don’t know if they see it as an issue……they haven’t given much indication that they are concerned with the offense.

  433. blake April 15th, 2012 at 8:30 am

    Super Nova tonight.

  434. MTU April 15th, 2012 at 8:31 am

    Blake-

    Morning.

    How long have I been advocating Hughes ditching that cutter and replacing it with Mr. Splitty ?

    When will Phil hear my exhortations ?

    Please listen Mr. Hughes. You are a natural for the split-finger FB.

    Learn it. Live it. Love it.

    It will help you.

    You can’t say I haven’t tried to get thru.

    Time is short Phil. We do not have forever.

    :)

  435. MaineYankee April 15th, 2012 at 8:34 am

    blake April 15th, 2012 at 8:27 am
    Maine,

    Sure….I hope so……I just don’t know if they see it as an issue……they haven’t given much indication that they are concerned with the offense.

    ——————————————————————————-

    That’s my point. Isn’t that just an assumption?

    I’m not saying everything Cashman does is the right move but to think he got to this position without the ability to plan ahead is not being sensible.

  436. blake April 15th, 2012 at 8:34 am

    MTU,

    We’ve been talking about it forever …..he should ditch the cutter….I don’t know about the split because I don’t know if he can grip it or not….he has a good arm action for it…..but some guys can’t spread their fingers enough…..I don’t know….perhaps he should find out.

  437. MTU April 15th, 2012 at 8:35 am

    Blake-

    The first time Michael pitches a shutout with 10K’s people will feel a whole lot better about things.

    Right now we are in a transition period.

    A time between great Montero events and great Pineda events.

    At least I hope so.

    ;)

  438. blake April 15th, 2012 at 8:36 am

    Maine,

    I agree with you…..but you coukd alsowould argue he got where he is because of a 200 million dollar payroll.

  439. MaineYankee April 15th, 2012 at 8:37 am

    MTU

    I guess your voice doesn’t carry that far.

  440. MTU April 15th, 2012 at 8:41 am

    Fact is no one will ever know all the details of what went into dealing Montero.

    Speculation will abound as to why but none of us will ever really know the truth.

    For the time being the wisdom of that trade remains indeterminate and in a state of doubt.

    Only the future will give us the absolute answer some seek.

    I’m just gonna wait. Anyone esle wanna try my method ?

    Nah. Didn’t think so.

    :)

    ;)

  441. MTU April 15th, 2012 at 8:43 am

    Maine-

    It gets lost in the Mountains.

    Blocked by the Continental Divide.

    :)

  442. MaineYankee April 15th, 2012 at 8:44 am

    blake April 15th, 2012 at 8:36 am
    Maine,

    I agree with you…..but you coukd alsowould argue he got where he is because of a 200 million dollar payroll.

    ————————————————————————————-

    That’s valid. We don’t know what he would do with less.

    I do know that Theo had a large payroll also and he left the RS in a mess when he left.

    Somewhere they were talking about all the Yankee depth that the RS don’t have.

    It may have been when Phelps was pitching yesterday.

    The RS problem last year was that they had no depth.

  443. MTU April 15th, 2012 at 8:45 am

    Unfortunately, nothing came to me in my dreams regarding our future Catching situation.

    I am still left with Gary Sanchez as our last best hope for redemption.

    Therefore, it is time for a burrito.

    What else is left to do but drown my sorrows in food ?

    :)

  444. MaineYankee April 15th, 2012 at 8:47 am

    MTU

    Anyone esle wanna try my method?

    ————————————————————

    I’m with you.

  445. MTU April 15th, 2012 at 8:50 am

    maine-

    That makes 2 of us.

    We seem to be alone on an island on this one.

    Pretty much everyone else seems to have already made up their minds.

  446. MaineYankee April 15th, 2012 at 8:51 am

    MTU

    You choose a burrito, I might choose a taco.

    Whose’s right. Maybe both of us or maybe neither.

    It’s that simple.

  447. Yankee Trader April 15th, 2012 at 8:51 am

    Good morning
    I’m out of the loop out of town the last 3 days and have not had time to watch.
    I watched a short clip of Phelps. Hopefully he’s a keeper.
    What’s the general consensus now on Hughes-too early to yank him from the rotation or give him his next start vs ?

  448. jmv April 15th, 2012 at 8:52 am

    Morning, guys

    MTU, I’m with you in the patience with the trade Pineda/Montero. Too early to know.

    About Hughes, he needs to learn something. I don’t know what, but it gotta be learnt in AAA. Yankees can’t get exposed to being bombed every 5 days. It’s not about 2 starts, it’s about almost 2 years. I’ll try with Phelps.

  449. MTU April 15th, 2012 at 8:52 am

    maine-

    At least we both like spicy Mexican food so there’s that.

    :)

  450. jmv April 15th, 2012 at 8:54 am

    I’d try, I meant

  451. MaineYankee April 15th, 2012 at 8:56 am

    MTU April 15th, 2012 at 8:52 am
    maine-

    At least we both like spicy Mexican food so there’s that.

    ————————————————————————

    Not really. I was just using that for an example.

    I’m more meat and potatoes. That should be no surprise. :D:

  452. Tar April 15th, 2012 at 8:57 am

    The hitters are also in a feeding frenzy mentality with Phil. They know he’s struggling and are just content to sit on any mistakes. (they know one is coming soon). There is no being on your heels, or guessing pitches going on with hitters vs Phil. I’m not comparing the two, but I felt the same way with AJ. I’m not sure how Phil breaks that cycle

  453. Yankee Trader April 15th, 2012 at 8:57 am

    Could this be the rotation when Pettitte is back?
    Sabathia
    Kuroda
    Pettitte
    Nova
    Phelps

  454. MTU April 15th, 2012 at 8:59 am

    YT-

    More time for sure but the rope got a bit shorter yesterday IMO.

    Phelps looks terrific to me.

    So far I like everyhting about him.

    Only time will tell if continued exposure will upgrade or downgrade his status.

    We have to remember that he is having his 1st go round in the Bigs and there is not a lot of data on him.

    Not only that, just about any starter is gonna do better in a relief role.

    That said, the combo of command, stuff, and mound presence is very, very impressive.

    I hope they do not trade him prematurely. He seems to have value. How much value is the real
    question.

    And by the way, welcome back.

    JMV-

    good morning. sorry I missed you last evening.

    :)

  455. Bronx Jeers April 15th, 2012 at 9:00 am

    MTU,

    Your Castaneda dreaming method may have failed you last night but there was definitely something psychic going on yesterday afternoon when you spoke the unspeakable concerning the Phleps/Hughes switcheroo.

  456. jmv April 15th, 2012 at 9:01 am

    Yankee Trader,

    That rotation looks good, maybe Pettitte at 4 while he gets in perfect shape

  457. jmv April 15th, 2012 at 9:03 am

    No problem, MTU. Last night this place it was a “conflict zone”, LOL

  458. MTU April 15th, 2012 at 9:03 am

    YT-

    More likely:

    CC
    Kuroda
    Andy
    Nova
    Hughes/Pineda

    Garcia traded.

    Phelps in reserve.

    :)

  459. Yankee Trader April 15th, 2012 at 9:03 am

    MTU
    I’ll be home later tonight
    Have the Angels been employing the shift on the power hitters?

  460. Tar April 15th, 2012 at 9:04 am

    YT

    I say give Phil a couple more starts. There was more good to (although you couldn’t tell by the results) than bad from his stuff. I like Blake’s analogy, hopefully he can eliminate the 3 bad one’s

    “I think its like that golf shot that you hit well 7 out of 10 tines……but the 3 bad ones are shanks into the woods…….that lead to triple bogeys…..that’s phi’s cutter…”

  461. MTU April 15th, 2012 at 9:05 am

    Jeers-

    It is the Yaqui way of knowledge that I sometimes use.

    ;)

  462. MTU April 15th, 2012 at 9:09 am

    YT-

    Have a safe trip back.

    Not extensively ala Maddon.

    JMV-

    A fissure opened up last night and the gulf between some surely widened but it can close because
    those things are ever changing.

    Just like the restless Earth which produces them in first place.

    ;)

  463. MTU April 15th, 2012 at 9:10 am

    It’s just like a friend of mine always says, “Time wounds all heels.”

    :)

  464. MTU April 15th, 2012 at 9:11 am

    And.

    “No good deed goes unpunished.”

    :)

  465. Yankee Trader April 15th, 2012 at 9:12 am

    Hopefully Pineda is back soon, but realistically he’ll have to build up arm strength and hone the CU plus dial the velocity up before he gets recalled. Mid June?
    Garcia doesn’t offer much if he can’t get hitters to bite at the splitter. Kuroda already shows teams the splitter, has better control and can mix in a 92-94 mph fastball.

  466. MTU April 15th, 2012 at 9:14 am

    Jeers-

    From now on you may address me as the Yaqui known as Don Juan.

    I make extensive use of remote viewing in my dreams.

    You should try it.

    :)

  467. jmv April 15th, 2012 at 9:14 am

    MTU

    Excelent analogy. It’s a young planet.

    About Hughes and his mistakes, the problem is that he is a fly ball pitcher, so those mistakes are paid 400 feet apiece

  468. Yankee Trader April 15th, 2012 at 9:15 am

    Have to go soon.

  469. MTU April 15th, 2012 at 9:16 am

    Jeers-

    Saves wear and tear on the feet and gets you lot’s of frequent flyer miles.

    :)

  470. MTU April 15th, 2012 at 9:17 am

    jmv-

    Easy enough to correct with a 2-seamer or split.

    ;)

  471. jmv April 15th, 2012 at 9:18 am

    Hi, YT

    Kuroda is a better pitcher than Garcia, for sure. But Freddy has had success in the past, in this same league. If he has command, he is useful

  472. jmv April 15th, 2012 at 9:21 am

    MTU says:
    April 15, 2012 at 9:17 am
    jmv-
    Easy enough to correct
    with a 2-seamer or split.
    ——————————
    I’m all in with this. Do you think he should learn at AAA?

  473. MTU April 15th, 2012 at 9:21 am

    Tonight the Dominican Condor will swoop in from on high on a strong wind and vulture us a win.

    :)

  474. Bronx Jeers April 15th, 2012 at 9:25 am

    I make extensive use of remote viewing in my dreams.

    You should try it.

    ———————————————

    I’ll meet ya in the GZ one of these nights. Be sure to have a cold one ready for me.

    But now I’m off to the gym. My future corpse needs work. :wink:

  475. MTU April 15th, 2012 at 9:25 am

    jmv-

    I am not really sure what the plan for Hughes is going forward should he fail in his current assignment in the Ro.

    I am hoping he is not ejected from that position because I am concerned with the consequences.

    What would be more likely in such an unfortunate scenario ?

    AAA or the pen ?

    Sadly, I believe it would be the Pen. And from the Pen to the wasteland.

    Not a good slope for Phil to be on.

    I continue to pull for a better outcome.

  476. MTU April 15th, 2012 at 9:26 am

    Jeers-

    Done.

    :)

  477. filthy slider April 15th, 2012 at 9:30 am

    Haven’t we seen enough of Phil “Mr. Softie” Hughes, 6 years later he still sucks.
    George would have had his butt in Kansas years ago. Just another example of Cashmans lack of talent evaluation.

  478. jmv April 15th, 2012 at 9:32 am

    We always talk about how Cliff Lee was sent to the minors to work and it went well.
    Maybe the Yankees could work a way to send him to AAA without hurting his value (“rehab program?”). I’m hoping for the best, but it’s not easy to be optimistic with Phil.

  479. DONNYBROOK April 15th, 2012 at 9:38 am

    In general, I thought Hughes looked pretty good. When he made a location mistake, the Angels punished him, and the Iannetta Homer was simply a fluke. Like most Chukers, Hughes will get 2 strikes onna hitter, and then just try to blow-them-away. The Angels were waiting on his heater, and Hughes threw it inna spot that allowed them to mash. Hughes got away from the Changeup, which allowed the Angels to guess right most the time. On the offensive side, the Yankee BA with runners in scoring position speaks for itself. The more I see of A-Rod after his knee surgery, the more I am reminded of Alfonso Soriano after his leg injury. The speed is gone, and they both now lumber around the bases.

  480. MTU April 15th, 2012 at 9:39 am

    jmv-

    That option still exist for Hughes until roughly June 1st.

    The question is, What would the Yankees be most likely to do ?

    Unfortunately, and as much as I might not think it best, my belief is that they would be more like to utilize whatever remaining skill Phil has out of the Pen rather than sending him down to reconstruct his game.

    I believe, for better or worse, it is sink-or-swim time for Hughes with the Yankees.

    I do not believe they wish to invest much more time in him young as he is.

    I’m gonna keep pulling for him and hoping for a good outcome.

    There are a lot of hungry dogs nipping at Phil’s heels and he simply needs to produce to stay in the hunt.

  481. yankee21 April 15th, 2012 at 9:41 am

    LAA hitters were just sitting on Phil’s fastball and content to either ignore his secondary stuff or confident in adjusting to it if necessary. I only caught a few innings but not once did I see him surpass 92 with his FB. That combination of lack of plus velocity and pedestrian secondary stuff is not a good sign.

    I hope Phil can overcome as I like him as a pitcher and a Yankee but I have little confidence he will get back to where he used to be while with the Yankees.

    OTOH NY just lumped in Noesi in a trade and he pitches 8 innings of shut out ball. Brilliant move there Cash. Noesi couldn’t have helped us right?

  482. randy l. April 15th, 2012 at 9:43 am

    “Only the future will give us the absolute answer some seek.”

    I’m just gonna wait. Anyone esle wanna try my method ?”

    mtu-

    sounds good.

    i’ll get back to you and let you know how it works.

  483. yankee21 April 15th, 2012 at 9:44 am

    For the majority of Phil’s starts since June 2010 we’ve seen Hughes struggle putting away hitters. The game plan is clearly to sit on his FB and ignore or adjust to his secondary stuff because his secondary stuff is sub-par. Unless he overcomes this flaw, he cannot be a SP for NYY.

  484. randy l. April 15th, 2012 at 9:44 am

    mtu -

    i’m back.

    i didn’t like waiting
    i got bored :)

  485. MTU April 15th, 2012 at 9:45 am

    21-

    Hughes hit 94 at least once.

    The 2ndary stuff needs work.

    I think almost everyone agree with that.

    I sure do.

  486. Bo knows April 15th, 2012 at 9:47 am

    Haven’t we seen enough of Phil “Mr. Softie” Hughes, 6 years later he still sucks.
    George would have had his butt in Kansas years ago. Just another example of Cashmans lack of talent evaluation.

    ———————————–

    Now that’s funny. Hughes was drafted on George’s watch.

    But carry on with the narrative.

  487. MTU April 15th, 2012 at 9:47 am

    Randy-

    Montero’s hitting talent is obvious.

    Jury is out on Michael Pineda.

  488. yankee21 April 15th, 2012 at 9:52 am

    Hughes hitting 94 once is not going to cut it. I saw part of the 3rd and 4th innings and not once did he surpass 91 or 92 I can’t remember. Hey I like Hughes I really want him to succeed, but he just doesn’t have the weapons right now to get the job done against a good hitting line-up. The problem is we really can’t blame Eiland anymore and it is probably too early to blame Rothschild so maybe this is on Hughes and he is what he is, a guy who had promise but didn’t work out for a myriad of reasons??

    Meanwhile Joe G says he has no plans for Phelps to start. A smart reporter would ask him why the hell not?

  489. MTU April 15th, 2012 at 9:55 am

    21-

    If Hughes happens to continue to falter which I hope he doesn’t there are several dogs nipping at his heels.

    On a day like yesterday the contrast between Hughes and Phelps was there for all to see in bold relief.

    That said, it was only 1 day.

  490. Triple Short of a Cycle April 15th, 2012 at 9:56 am

    Meanwhile Joe G says he has no plans for Phelps to start. A smart reporter would ask him why the hell not?

    —————————————————————————————–

    What would be the point? I don’t believe anything that comes out of his mouth

  491. yankee21 April 15th, 2012 at 9:57 am

    I agree on scrapping the cutter, to me that is a pitch that Hughes takes a breather on, kind of a pitch to rest so he can store up his energy to “crank out” a 92 mph FB on the next pitch.
    It is worthless and should be abandoned.

    Batters must appreciate that inevitably they will get a ball on the cutter or a pure hitter like Kendrick just smash it into the seats if it flattens out in the happy zone.

    BTW, Kendrick has the nicest swing in the game from the right side. Just a classic. If it wouldn’t be for Cano, I would kidnap the guy and have him play 2B for NYY…..

  492. BD (Boston Dave) April 15th, 2012 at 9:57 am

    If I has to guess, the Pineda trade will be the straw that broke this blogs back. This place was spiralling downward as it is, but it doesn’t seem there will ever be enough interesting and meaningful discussion here to overcome the garbage and sky is falling whining.

    Funny, guys like CB keep leaving and are replaced by 5-10 whiners. Not really a good formula now is it?

  493. MTU April 15th, 2012 at 10:00 am

    Triple-

    I agree. The looks on some of the faces in the dugout like Garardi during Phelps outing were not those of a disinterested party.

    He was taking notice of the on field happenings.

    And Phelps was doin’ the talkin’.

    That’s how I saw it anyway.

  494. yankee21 April 15th, 2012 at 10:00 am

    I don’t believe a word that comes out his mouth either but Joe G should still be called on his statements that he has no plans for Phelps to start. It’s as if Phelps has no chance not a snowball in hell opportunity he is here for mop up duty only.. Sounds like the Noesi plan.
    Now, this doesn’t mean he should start Phelps and just yank Hughes out of the rotation but just to categorically dismiss the idea makes me scratch my head that once again Joe G proves he is and has been the wrong man for the job.

  495. BD (Boston Dave) April 15th, 2012 at 10:00 am

    Or maybe I’m just naive. It does seem that what fans of all the competitive teams want, more than anything else (Sox, Yanks, Angels, etc) is a place to vent and whine and share in their disdain with others. The numbers are hard to argue with.

  496. MTU April 15th, 2012 at 10:01 am

    sp: Girardi. Sorry joe.

  497. MTU April 15th, 2012 at 10:02 am

    New thread —->

  498. randy l. April 15th, 2012 at 10:03 am

    phil hughes has what it takes to be a really good mlb pitcher.

    good live fastball, good secondary pitches, etc

    now why is he having all the problems?

    i would say it’s because of never having a solid development in the minors.

    he’s had to perfect different pitches and variations of pitches at the mlb level while having to win games for the new york yankees.

    he’s always been under a similar spotlight to the one that was on him yesterday and the one that will be on him in his next game.

    he will not be working on improving incrementally in his next start. he will be pitching for his life under pressure. he’s not going to learn or improve anything. he’ll go with what he thinks will work. if it doesn’t and he gets in trouble, it will snowball down hill rapidly.

    this is no way to improve. hughes really needs to be simply left in a rotation somewhere and left to develop a set of pitches that works for him. the yankees will get little out of him if they jerk him around all over the place from starting to relieving to rehab to coming back to the minors to the DL to rehab to starting to relieving… well you get the idea.

    stick with him starting somewhere. the problem the yankees have is that they rushed him and started his clock ticking so young that he’s going to really only be fixed now right in time for him to cash in somewhere else.

    the yankees don’t have a whole lot of time with him to make things right now. if they think they don’t , thy probably owe it to him to package him in a deal with some other players and make a trade.

    or they could use their judgement before they see results that he will be good if he had a year in the minors and sign him to a long term contract that would give him time to develop and still be their property for 4-5 years.

    the yankees have botched things with hughes and there’s no easy way out now.
    personally, i’d sign him to a long term contract at favorable terms to both hughes and the yankees and then send him to the minors to reinvent his game for however long it takes.

  499. jmv April 15th, 2012 at 10:04 am

    Phelps doesn’t hit 94, I think. It’s not just about the stuff, but hitting spots, changing speeds and deceive. And when the hitters gets to you, make adjustments

  500. Carson April 15th, 2012 at 10:07 am

    I’m okay being a fanboy.

    I understand the organizational decisions aren’t my job and just cheer for the 25 guys who show up in the uniform everyday.

  501. mick April 15th, 2012 at 10:08 am

    anybody hear the rotation vs the Twins?
    CC opening Mon. on regular rest or Freddy, on his turn?

  502. Bo knows April 15th, 2012 at 10:21 am

    The thing is that Nova, Noesi, Phelps, all have better secondary pitches than Hughes.

    I’m with Phil, in that post Texas injury, Hughes shortened his stride and his pitches lack finish. That was the killer decision back then in rushing him. It was a wicked spring. If they had waited at least another month for him to build up strength.

    It’s boggled my mind for years that Nova and Noesi were second class citizens in the pitching hierarchy. Throwing easy mid nineties with a full complement of pitches. But hey, they don’t have the gaudy SO numbers.

    But, but, the sinker does two things – less pitches per inning and less HRs.

    Well, the stats boys all love SOs.

    But I love the seventy pitches through five.

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