The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Jeter at DH for second game in Boston

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Apr 21, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Derek Jeter DH
Nick Swisher RF
Robinson Cano 2B
Alex Rodriguez 3B
Mark Teixeira 1B
Curtis Granderson CF
Andruw Jones LF
Russell Martin C
Eduardo Nunez SS

RHP Freddy Garcia

Comments

comments

 

Advertisement

138 Responses to “Jeter at DH for second game in Boston”

  1. Ghostwriter April 21st, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    I know that I’m starting to get repetitious on this point, but I really hate this rotating DH nonsense. If Jeter needs a day off, then give him a day off. Otherwise, let him play.

  2. MoRings42 April 21st, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    I’d rather have Nunez as the DH and leave Jeter in the field but that would make too much sense.

  3. Giuseppe Franco April 21st, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    Can’t say I’m a big fan of the rotating DH either but it is what it is.

    We saw this coming long ago.

  4. Bret The Hitman April 21st, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    Rich in NJ April 21st, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    I am beginning to agree with Bret about something (really).

    I think Melky should be an option for next season and beyond.

    *********

    As the season progresses Melky in RF will become a no-brainer. It will be crystal clear that adding a young .300 is exactly what this lineup needs.

    For the record, I’m also pulling for Miguel Montero on a 3-4 year deal and Ichiro over Ibanez/Andruw Jones. Those two depend on price of course but I consider both huge upgrades and better fits for this lineup.

  5. Ghostwriter April 21st, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    However, I would be remiss if I didn’t give Girardi credit for his newfound flexibility with the lineup. I really like hitting Tex in the 5-hole, and having Alex and Cano share the 3-and-4 holes. I think this reshuffling will help Tex and ARod reclaim their respective forms.

  6. Bret The Hitman April 21st, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    I see a theme emerging – the Yankees are using DH for Jeter and Arod with more frequency. Meanwhile, Montero is the primary DH in Seattle. This should’ve been obvious to everyone in regards to the Pineda trade but it’s still not obvious to some.

  7. Ghostwriter April 21st, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    It was a mistake to trade Melky in the first place.

  8. Yankee Trader April 21st, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    Tar-

    If you are still on you asked the question “Has Phil been that bad?”

    Prior to the Twins game this was posted on Doubts about Phil:

    ” For starters, he has a lot of trouble finishing batters off. If he qualified (he hasn’t thrown enough innings), he would be tied for last in pitches-per-plate appearance (4.46). He threw 99 pitches in 4.2 innings on April 8th and 84 in 3.1 innings this past Saturday.”

    “Batters just aren’t fooled by his curveball or cutter, and they know his changeup is purely a “show me” pitch – they therefore sit on his fastball. The swing-&-miss rate on his curveball is (ala Dean Wormer) 0.0. In addition, he’s only inducing grounders 19% of the time (and flyballs 62%!): another sign that hitters aren’t getting fooled.”

    Rest of the article:

    http://www.pinstripealley.com/.....hil-hughes

  9. Ghostwriter April 21st, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    Bret The Hitman April 21st, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    …but it’s still not obvious to some.

    ====

    To whom are you referring?

  10. Ghostwriter April 21st, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    We should name Hughes’ c urveball “Flounder” :)

  11. Bret The Hitman April 21st, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    Ghostwriter April 21st, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    It was a mistake to trade Melky in the first place.

    *******

    I think it was a last resort type move. Melky was goofing off and growing expensive. He needed a wakeup call. I doubt he would have found himself if he was allowed to continue dorking around in NY. But he has answered the call and he’s becoming the player he’s supposed to be. There’s no turning back on it. NY needs him back.

  12. RadioKev April 21st, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    Villa Nova-Ya,

    if you’re still around, and it hasn’t been answered, Pettitte was the other starter in the 09 rotation!

  13. Bret The Hitman April 21st, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    Ghostwriter April 21st, 2012 at 12:52 pm
    Bret The Hitman April 21st, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    …but it’s still not obvious to some.

    ====

    To whom are you referring?

    ******

    Fans imagining there was a spot for Montero. That spot is for Arod mainly and Jeter. If Hank doesn’t give Arod that stupid 10 year contract that requires a DH insurance policy for both and short term insurance, it’s far more likely Montero is still a Yankee.

    No worries – there’s still an opportunity to bring in a Montero at catcher – MIGUEL

    ;)

  14. Ghostwriter April 21st, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    Bret The Hitman April 21st, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    Ghostwriter April 21st, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    It was a mistake to trade Melky in the first place.

    *******

    I think it was a last resort type move. Melky was goofing off and growing expensive. He needed a wakeup call. I doubt he would have found himself if he was allowed to continue dorking around in NY. But he has answered the call and he’s becoming the player he’s supposed to be. There’s no turning back on it. NY needs him back.
    ============

    Melky had a fine year in 2009, before they traded him. He was traded presumably, because he was distracting Cano.

  15. Rich in NJ April 21st, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    “Arod that stupid 10 year contract that requires a DH insurance policy for both and short term insurance, it’s far more likely Montero is still a Yankee.”

    As some of us have said, if they wanted to trade Montero, it should have been for a position player.

  16. johnfish April 21st, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    It was a mistake to trade Melky in the first place.
    ===========================

    No, the bigger problem was not signing Melky, for next to nothing, prior to the 2011 season. We had no way of knowing Melky would hit .300 or drive in 85+ runs, but we did know that, at worst, he’d be a valuable 4th outfielder who could play all 3 positions. There are those of us who thought/ knew that Melky was better than Gardner, but that’s besides the point. It was a no brainer to pick up Melky in 2011 on a one year $1 million deal; Cash blew this one big time.

  17. RadioKev April 21st, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    Ghostwriter,

    I dunno, I think the half days are fine for the old guys. I’d rather the team work Nunez into more games now and then be able to know what they have in him later this season.

    Also, I’m unwilling to believe the front office traded Melky in relation to Cano. The team had acquired Granderson by then, making an outfielder expendable. I think they questioned his dedication/upside..

  18. Yankee Trader April 21st, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    Bret-

    Fit all those additions and extend Granderson and Cano thru 2014 and stay under the 189M LT threshold. That would be A-Rod, CC, Tex, Jeter, M.Montero, Melky Cabrera, Cano and Granderson, and possibly Ichiro if he wants 2 more years, plus filling out the 40 man roster, dealing with the arb cases and monies due for other perks like medical insurance. Plus any midseason additions in 2014, as the LT won’t be assessed until the end of the 2014 season.

    Figure this all out and the Yankees might bring you in as a treasury consultant! :)

  19. 86w183 April 21st, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    The rotating DH makes perfect sense to me when the lineup features so many guys over 30.

    I think the Yanks though Cano and Melky needed to be separated. Both are more mature now and it would be a pretty nice fit.

    I’d see if the Giants who REALLY need a closer might be receptive to a Melky/Soriano based transaction.

    In the meantime why on earth are Dwayne Wise and Chris Dickerson still in AAA while the Yanks carry 13 pitchers? Maybe they want to see if Garcia forces the pen to throw 8 innings this afternoon.

  20. ron April 21st, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    The yankees have too be very carefull with pineda going forward.
    I am also very concerned with his delivery,and slider usage.

    Would be nice too clean him up.

  21. Tar April 21st, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    “Batters just aren’t fooled by his curveball or cutter, and they know his changeup is purely a “show me” pitch – they therefore sit on his fastball.”

    Thanks YT

    I would agree and somewhat disagree by that above sentence. Agree that hitters are sitting dead red, but I do think hitters are somewhat fooled by his CB, its just that they are not swinging at it (sitting on FB ? ) As the last game progressed, it seemed to me that he got his CB over a lot more for strikes. I also remember Pujols watching 2 really nice CB’s for strikes and than hammering an ill-advised high FB. I haven’t given up on him yet.

  22. Yankee Trader April 21st, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    Also, I’m unwilling to believe the front office traded Melky in relation to Cano. The team had acquired Granderson by then, making an outfielder expendable. I think they questioned his dedication/upside..
    ——————————-
    Definitely-

    He was the same or worse with the Braves, and they couldn’t wait to unload him. He finally has spent an offseason working hard on conditioning and his hitting.

  23. Ghostwriter April 21st, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    I never viewed Melky/Gardner as an either/or proposition. I like both of them. They both brought useful skills and abilities to the ballclub. There was room for both of them. There still is.

  24. Rich in NJ April 21st, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    Signing Melky makes more sense than signing Swisher or Martin.

  25. Bret The Hitman April 21st, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    Rich in NJ April 21st, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    “Arod that stupid 10 year contract that requires a DH insurance policy for both and short term insurance, it’s far more likely Montero is still a Yankee.”

    As some of us have said, if they wanted to trade Montero, it should have been for a position player.

    *******

    Montero is the primary DH in Seattle and a man without a position in NY so it’s hard for me to imagine a team holding a good young hitting position player trading him for a good young hitter without a position.

    Besides, Pineda was necessary. He has ace potential.

    After CC the only young arm capable of making an impact in a big game is Nova. It’s one thing to have surplus pitching, quite another to have a surplus of potential big game pitchers like Nova. I do love Banuelos and Campos seems to be coming along, but anything can happen with those guys. The other arms are filler.

  26. Giuseppe Franco April 21st, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    The Yanks didn’t sign Melky prior to the 2011 season because he sucked after he was traded to the Braves.

    Look his numbers up. He was terrible.

  27. RadioKev April 21st, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    Ghostwriter April 21st, 2012 at 1:02 pm
    I never viewed Melky/Gardner as an either/or proposition. I like both of them. They both brought useful skills and abilities to the ballclub. There was room for both of them. There still is.
    ———-

    So we rotate Gardner/Melky/Granderson/Swisher as the DH every day? Seems like an inefficient use of resources. Those guys all can and should play every day. The only problem with the Melky trade was…the guy we traded for sucked.

    On paper I’ll support that trade any day. It looked dang good, I’m just not sure who could have predicted Vazquez’s total uselessness.

  28. Bret The Hitman April 21st, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    86w183 April 21st, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    I’d see if the Giants who REALLY need a closer might be receptive to a Melky/Soriano based transaction.

    *****

    I think the Yankees would be thrilled if the Giants merely offered to eat all of Soriano’s contract.

  29. Jason from The Heartland April 21st, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    I couldn’t agree more, Yankee Trader, on your strong analysis of Hughes’s pitches and performance.

    Ghostwriter, great suggestion on the name.

  30. RadioKev April 21st, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    Rich in NJ April 21st, 2012 at 1:03 pm
    Signing Melky makes more sense than signing Swisher or Martin.
    ————-

    He’ll probably be a better value than Swisher, but he’s not going to help call games..

  31. Rich in NJ April 21st, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    “Montero is the primary DH in Seattle and a man without a position in NY so it’s hard for me to imagine a team holding a good young hitting position player trading him for a good young hitter without a position.”

    The primary DH who will catch about 40 games this season. That’s a role that he could have played here, and he could have even have sat another 20 games so that A-Rod and Jeter would still have gotten their DH AB. The added benefit is that an offensive zero wouldn’t have been behind the plate when Martin sits, so he would have been kept fresher.

    “After CC the only young arm capable of making an impact in a big game is Nova. It’s one thing to have surplus pitching, quite another to have a surplus of potential big game pitchers like Nova. I do love Banuelos and Campos seems to be coming along, but anything can happen with those guys. The other arms are filler.”

    Pitchers are extremely fragile, as we are now seeing with Pineda. So philosophically, I don’t like to trade hitters for pitchers, especially pitchers under 26 because they are more susceptible to injury.

  32. m April 21st, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    I really hated the Melky/Cano party boys narrative.

    I didn’t think there was much to the story that one was traded because he was a distraction to the other.

    Both have taken off because they’ve matured as players and as adults. But there may have been some truth to the whispers.

    The peanuts & porn star thing was bizarre, tho! People rode that material for a while.

  33. Rich in NJ April 21st, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    Well, some people like to say that the Yankees can trade young players because they can always get them back when they become free agents. Melky will be a test case.

  34. luis April 21st, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    luis April 21st, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    Good afternoon,

    Trisha, fair enough. I respect your POV. Friends? ;)

    Ghost,

    Let’s forget about the generational player and all that stuff or that Pineda is damaged goods. From a philosophical stand point the trade was wrong, for several reasons. Let’s review them:

    1) The team had plenty of pitching prospects, many with as high upside or even higher than Pineda. (Betances, Banuelos,DePaula, Marshall), then some in a second tear (Noesi, Phelps, Warren and Mitchell). You could add to that list Joba is you will. That’s 9 prospects in either triple A or Close to it.

    2) They had no potential impact bats above A ball, except Montero.

    3) The lineup is either aging or declining. It is streaky and has plenty of all or nothing approach. In other words they have a very poor situational hitting approach. Just to give you an example, yesterday’s game. Sure we won, but Laptop should have been out of the game way before the 7th inning. That’s telling.

    4) Even though the pitching hasn’t performed as expected, it will be alright. We have plenty of depth, to the point that we can have the centerpiece of the trade in EST.

    Management 101, You try to enhance both strengths and weaknesses. But you never enhance a strength at the expense of a weakness. It makes you vulnerable for an attack. For me, this is the conundrum of the issue and what makes it such a bad move, regardless of how the players involved perform from here on out.

    Then if you review the apparent reasoning for the trade:

    1) We had plenty of question marks in our rotation. We have CC as the ace, Nova as our number two, Kuroda is better than his numbers, Pettitte is three starts away and IMO Phelps is ready to be the fifth starter. You still had plenty of depth left in the minors. To the point that as of right now you don’t need Pineda.

    2) Montero had no position. He is catching, so he does have a position.

    3)You needed the DH spot for the vets. I ask a question: What would you want in the DH spot a declining old star that can no longer play the field or a rising in his prime bat?

    4) And the latest, he could catch but not good enough to grant him playing time. The Yankees mantra has been to have an offensive catcher since the 20?s. It has produced 27 rings, why change it now?

    This IMO are the true lines of argument that are going to dictate if the trade was the right one or not. Not how the players perform. The only way that this trade could be right from their apparent reasoning is that every single prospect we have flops and Pineda then becomes a necesity. Not likely.

  35. Melkmanisinhotlanta April 21st, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    Oh yes my position was correct from Day 1: Cashman foolishly traded Melky away! Clutch, talented and a winner, but no, we need Javiar Vasquez again lolololo. Nick Johnson might be availiable soon Cashy, come on, get him!!!!!

  36. Bret The Hitman April 21st, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    That’s right. Cashman brought back Nick Johnson, JAVIER VAQUEZ and he even pondered Carl Palooza II. A Melky reunion is in order.

  37. Bret The Hitman April 21st, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    Luis

    1) AROD’s contract

    2) The Yankees don’t like Montero as a catcher. The team that coveted him the most has him as their primary DH.

    3) It’s one thing to have a surplus of young pitchers but quite another to stockpile young pitchers who could make an impact in big games like Nova.

  38. luis April 21st, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    Excuse the long post.

  39. Ghostwriter April 21st, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    Giuseppe Franco April 21st, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    The Yanks didn’t sign Melky prior to the 2011 season because he sucked after he was traded to the Braves.

    Look his numbers up. He was terrible.
    ================

    It would have been a calculated risk, but the Yanks would have gotten a bargain. That kind of bargain shopping is similar to how we got Swisher (and Brosius as I recall).

  40. Keith--PA....no longer FL April 21st, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    Here we go…..Sherman just tweeted that Pineda was shut down after 1 inning with shoulder weakness….

  41. Yankee Trader April 21st, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    The days are over where the Yankees can easily lure big time free agent players to NY. Most teams now have cash, and being well under the LT threshold doesn’t hurt.

    CJ Wilson was dropping hints all over the place to come to NY, but wouldn’t fit under the budget.

    Cliff Lee was a sure thing! I’m not even convinced he would have resigned with the Yankees had the original trade not been nixed by the Mariners.

  42. Against All Odds April 21st, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    The Yankees will never have to sign an AJ Burnett ever again and that’s worth its weight on gold.

    ——————————

    Wasn’t it Cashman that said yrs ago they wouldn’t have to spend money on a pitcher because they have Joba, Hughes, and Kennedy knocking on the door. Then the very next season they signed AJ and CC

  43. luis April 21st, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    Bret The Hitman April 21st, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    Luis

    1) AROD’s contract

    2) The Yankees don’t like Montero as a catcher. The team that coveted him the most has him as their primary DH.

    3) It’s one thing to have a surplus of young pitchers but quite another to stockpile young pitchers who could make an impact in big games like Nova.

    ===========================

    1) If he can’t perform he shouldn’t be playing. Or are we going to go to YS just to watch Arod become the HR king?

    2) Big mistake

    3) Is Pineda a big game pitcher?…As far as i know he was crying after his last start in ST!…It’s too early to tell, but i don’t think he is in the same league as make up goes as Nova.

  44. johnfish April 21st, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    The Yanks didn’t sign Melky prior to the 2011 season because he sucked after he was traded to the Braves.

    Look his numbers up. He was terrible.
    ———————————————————

    Which is precisely why they could have picked him up for a one year $1 million contract.
    Here’s a guy who can play all 3 outfield positions, had shown potential and could be had dirt cheap, so that at worst you had a 4th outfielder.
    Now he’s making $5 million and would probably cost close to $10 million per if he repeats last year’s numbers.

    It’s amazing, that people preach patience with Gardner, but never gave Melky a break, despite the fact that he’s younger than Gardner.

  45. NYY fan in NH April 21st, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    Pineda shut down again with shoulder soreness -per Joel Sherman..

    That trade is looking worse by the day. Hopefully Campos is the real deal

  46. luis April 21st, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    Keith–PA….no longer FL April 21st, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    Here we go…..Sherman just tweeted that Pineda was shut down after 1 inning with shoulder weakness….

    ================================

    Ugh!!

  47. Bret The Hitman April 21st, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    Yankee Trader April 21st, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    Cliff Lee was a sure thing! I’m not even convinced he would have resigned with the Yankees had the original trade not been nixed by the Mariners.

    *******

    Buddy of mine is convinced that the trade with the Mariners fell through because Cliff Lee refused an extension with NY. He thinks the Yankees/Mariners agreed to use Adams and his ankle injury as a smokescreen for Lee and all parties involved. Funny how everyone thought Jack Z. burned his bridges with Cashman only for Cashman to return to Jack Z. to flirt over Pineda for months on end. There was never any bad blood because it was never Jack Z.’s fault the Lee trade fell through. It was Lee himself who was the reason. Montero for half-season of Lee was never going to happen.

  48. Yankee Trader April 21st, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    Is Pineda a big game pitcher?…
    ————————
    As of a few minutes ago he was shut down in spring training after complaining of shoulder weakness while throwing and will be evaluated over the next few days.

  49. Yankee Trader April 21st, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    Bret-

    Very interesting and certainly makes sense.

  50. Bret The Hitman April 21st, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    1) If he can’t perform he shouldn’t be playing. Or are we going to go to YS just to watch Arod become the HR king?

    ******

    Easy for you to say. It’s not your near 300 million dollars that requires both a short and long term insurance policy at DH.

  51. Jerkface April 21st, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    The bonuses do not count as guaranteed money, but that does not mean they do not affect the luxury tax. Page 91 of the CBA:

    (4) Performance, Award and Other Bonuses
    (a) Any amounts that are actually earned by a Player as Performance
    Bonuses, Award Bonuses or any other bonuses properly
    included in a Uniform Player’s Contract shall be included as part of
    the Player’s Salary in the Contract Year in which the service or performance
    giving rise to the Bonus was provided. Potential bonuses
    shall not be included in the Average Annual Value calculation made
    pursuant to Section E(2) above.

    (b) A Special Covenant in a Uniform Player’s Contract that provides
    that Player performance or achievement in one year of the
    Contract will increase the Base Salary in other year(s) of the Contract shall not be considered in the determination of Salary until the
    triggering event occurs (other than, if applicable, as a “potential
    bonus”), unless it is determined by the Arbitration Panel that the
    Special Covenant was designed to defeat or circumvent the intention
    of the Parties as reflected in this Article XXIII. As long as such
    a finding is not made, the additional Base Salary triggered by the
    Special Covenant shall count as part of the Player’s Salary in the
    Contract Year(s) to which it is attributed by the Contract once the
    triggering event has occurred. Multi-Year Contracts shall not be
    recalculated on an Average Annual Value basis once the triggering
    event has occurred; the additional Base Salary shall be added to the
    Salary as originally calculated for the Contract Year in question.

    They will count in the year they are earned. This just stops teams from rigging up the luxury tax to be different in certain years (which can help them backload or frontload contracts).

    I don’t see how the milestone bonuses would not: A. fall under the first provision, or B. hold up against an arbitration panel as referenced in the second provision.

  52. yankeefeminista April 21st, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    Ugh.

  53. Nick in SF April 21st, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    Pineda getting moisty-eyed is now seriously being used as a weapon against him?

    I guess his mental weakness has been proven beyond a randyable doubt. :neutral:

  54. luis April 21st, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    Bret The Hitman April 21st, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    1) If he can’t perform he shouldn’t be playing. Or are we going to go to YS just to watch Arod become the HR king?

    ******

    Easy for you to say. It’s not your near 300 million dollars that requires both a short and long term insurance policy at DH.

    ==============================

    One way or the other fans pay that contract. If the team is losing big time for lack of flexibility in their payroll, do you think the stadium is going to be filled with fans?, or the commercials agreements are going to be so good?.

  55. yankeefeminista April 21st, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    Joel Sherman ? @Joelsherman1 Close
    Emailed Cashman about Pineda’s setback. Response: “Of course I am concerned – don’t have an answer.” #Yankees

  56. luis April 21st, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    Nick in SF April 21st, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    Pineda getting moisty-eyed is now seriously being used as a weapon against him?

    I guess his mental weakness has been proven beyond a randyable doubt. :neutral:

    =================================

    Nick,

    Your are misrepresenting my comment. I said it is too early to tell, but that attitude after a game is not good. I was comparing him to Nova.

  57. jacksquat April 21st, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    Chad, please see if you can hit up Cashman and ask him if A-Rod’s HR milestone bonuses apply to the luxury tax.

  58. Ghostwriter April 21st, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    It’s not fair to beat up on Pineda for getting hurt. It’s also not fair to beat up on Cashman for Pineda getting hurt. All reports are that Cashman did his due diligence in having Pineda checked out, and ensuring that Pineda was healthy. You can’t fault Cashman for what may just be hard luck.

  59. Against All Odds April 21st, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    You can’t fault Cashman for what may just be hard luck.

    ———————

    IDK. I don’t want to freak out but it’s getting close.

  60. jacksquat April 21st, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    I guess Pineda needs more rest than a week or two before starting to throw again. MRI already showed no structural damage.

  61. hardwired7 April 21st, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    Ev’rthing’s gonna be alright
    ev’rthing’s gonna be alright
    ev’rthing’s gonna be alright

    no Pineda, no cry

  62. Jerkface April 21st, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    You can’t fault Cashman for what may just be hard luck.

    Except that hard luck happens with pitchers more often than with position players, especially young ones, so maybe don’t trade your really cool position prospect for a pitcher? I’m not really interested in beating Cashman up over this trade anymore, and I certainly wish Pineda would get healthy and pitch for the Yankees because of his talent, but while this trade was still unofficial I said I didn’t like it because of the injury issue with pitchers. Now Pineda is dead, what a shocker?

  63. yankeefeminista April 21st, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    I pray that there really is no structural damage. This is not good.

  64. 86w183 April 21st, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    MLB has already publicly acknowledged that MILESTONE bonuses are NOT performance bonuses. The $$$ will not be taxed… nor will personal service/milestone $$$ paid in any other contract.

  65. Ghostwriter April 21st, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    Against All Odds April 21st, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    You can’t fault Cashman for what may just be hard luck.

    ———————

    IDK. I don’t want to freak out but it’s getting close.
    =======

    Take a deep breath. It’ll all work out… :)

  66. Rich in NJ April 21st, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    “Jason from The Heartland ”

    By Heartland, I assume you mean NJ?

  67. Rich in NJ April 21st, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    “I pray that there really is no structural damage. This is not good.”

    I know from personal experience that tendinitis is a cacthall diagnosis, MRIs are sufficiently accurate to distinguish between a small tear and mere inflammation.

  68. Rich in NJ April 21st, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    are not!

  69. Tar April 21st, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    Best wishes Michael. :sad:

    Player A (K/9– 9.5) (BB/9– 0.9) (H/9–11.8) (BAbip–.389) (BA–.321) (risp–.107 .107 .179 .286)

    Player B (k/9– 10.1) (BB/9– 4.1) (H/9–12.8) (BAbip–.366) (BA–.317) (risp-.286 .412 .714 1.126)

    Nova and Hughes.

    I realize i’m not too good at this saber stuff but for me, very similar hitting stats. Nova destroys him with RISP and BB’s.

  70. Bo knows April 21st, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    A possible positive sign is that he complained of weakness, not pain.

  71. Jerkface April 21st, 2012 at 1:44 pm

    MLB has already publicly acknowledged that MILESTONE bonuses are NOT performance bonuses. The $$$ will not be taxed… nor will personal service/milestone $$$ paid in any other contract.

    Have they? Link? I’ve not seen it. The things they have said are consistent with the CBA’s text. The money isn’t treated as guaranteed. That does not mean it does not affect the luxury tax.

  72. luis April 21st, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    Tar April 21st, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    Best wishes Michael. :sad:

    Player A (K/9– 9.5) (BB/9– 0.9) (H/9–11.8) (BAbip–.389) (BA–.321) (risp–.107 .107 .179 .286)

    Player B (k/9– 10.1) (BB/9– 4.1) (H/9–12.8) (BAbip–.366) (BA–.317) (risp-.286 .412 .714 1.126)

    Nova and Hughes.

    I realize i’m not too good at this saber stuff but for me, very similar hitting stats. Nova destroys him with RISP and BB’s.

    ==================================

    Tar,

    It is because of Nova’s repertoire, it is more complete than Hughes. He has more weapons to keep batters off balance.

  73. Nick in SF April 21st, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    luis, did I misinterpret what you said? It looked like you were questioning whether Pineda is a big game pitcher and used his tears to suggest that he is not.

    “3) Is Pineda a big game pitcher?…As far as i know he was crying after his last start in ST!…”

  74. Jerkface April 21st, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    This is what is said:

    “Finally, there’s one objection the commissioner’s office would seem to have to both of those creative wrinkles: Because those payouts are not regarded as guaranteed money, teams potentially could use them to avoid luxury-tax bills. ”

    Yea… they don’t increase the AAV of the contract, so they can be used to avoid luxury tax bills in the years the bonuses are not earned. Its consistent with the CBA. I can see why MLB wants to shut it down, as they don’t want any kind of ‘creative accounting’ where you have players being paid different amounts in different years leading to the possibility of retaining more players at higher ‘true aav’ but being recognized at a lower AAV for salary cap purposes.

  75. Ghostwriter April 21st, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    Jerkface April 21st, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    You can’t fault Cashman for what may just be hard luck.

    Except that hard luck happens with pitchers more often than with position players, especially young ones, so maybe don’t trade your really cool position prospect for a pitcher? I’m not really interested in beating Cashman up over this trade anymore, and I certainly wish Pineda would get healthy and pitch for the Yankees because of his talent, but while this trade was still unofficial I said I didn’t like it because of the injury issue with pitchers. Now Pineda is dead, what a shocker?
    ============

    I agree with most of this, as I also was against the trade. However, at the end of the day, you pay your money, and you take your chances. Even if this trade doesn’t work out because Pineda is injured, I would be hard-pressed to characterize this trade as stupid. The tade certainly seemed like a reasonable exchange of value between the clubs. Nevertheless, Cashman does deserve criticism for employing a faulty strategy in making the trade, because trading for pitchers is risky, and because the Yanks gave a bat that they needed for an arm that they didn’t need.

    In other words, I think that it’s fair game to bash Cashman for a bad strategy, but I don’t think that it’s fair to ding him for what may have been an unlucky outcome (if in fact, it turns out that Pineda is a washout).

  76. luis April 21st, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    Nick in SF April 21st, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    luis, did I misinterpret what you said? It looked like you were questioning whether Pineda is a big game pitcher and used his tears to suggest that he is not.

    “3) Is Pineda a big game pitcher?…As far as i know he was crying after his last start in ST!…”

    ==========================

    Good so far, but why not add the end of the comment?…..”It’s too early to tell, but i don’t think he is in the same league as make up goes as Nova”

    As you can see, two different things my friend ;)

  77. Against All Odds April 21st, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    Ghostwriter April 21st, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    Against All Odds April 21st, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    You can’t fault Cashman for what may just be hard luck.

    ———————

    IDK. I don’t want to freak out but it’s getting close.
    =======

    Take a deep breath. It’ll all work out… :)

    ———————–

    *breathes deeply*

    Ghost:Better?
    Against:Better.

  78. Tar April 21st, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    “It is because of Nova’s repertoire, it is more complete than Hughes. He has more weapons to keep batters off balance.”

    IDK their repertoire’s produce very similar results until runners get on, than it’s night and day difference. I really don’t know what or if anything to make of it.

  79. Ghostwriter April 21st, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    *breathes deeply*

    Ghost:Better?
    Against:Better.

    ======

    ;)

  80. jr1212 April 21st, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    This is really bad news regarding Pineda. The best possible situation will probably have coming back after the all star break and I think thats being optimistic. All along I have understood the trade from the Yanks perspective but at this point im starting to wonder….I guess Year 1 belongs to the Mariners

  81. luis April 21st, 2012 at 1:52 pm

    Ghost,

    Very good post. I am not faulting Cashman for Pineda’s good or bad performance. But as you, for the faulty strategy. Injuries happen, it’s part of the game.

  82. 86w183 April 21st, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    Jerkface —

    That was the whole purpose of the announcement the other day that such causes would be banned from future contracts.

    As for regurgitating the issues of the Pineda again and again…

    If you check media coverage at the time you’ll find that most baseball people thought the Yankees made the better deal. We won’t know for several years what the bottom line of the deal is… but the Mariners are winning so far.

  83. Nick in SF April 21st, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    The second part of the comment doesn’t negate the first part. If it’s too early to tell, why question whether he’s a big game pitcher and exclaim that he cried? If it’s too early to tell, why compare him unfavorably to Nova?

  84. Rich in NJ April 21st, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    Once you decide that a strategy is poor, it’s fair to end the evaluation process of a decision-maker.

  85. LGY April 21st, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    Tar

    Nova: 4.03 FIP, 2.82 xFIP

    Hughes: 5.92 FIP, 4.71 xFIP

  86. Jerkface April 21st, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    That was the whole purpose of the announcement the other day that such causes would be banned from future contracts.

    No, I’ve already addressed that. What I’m talking about is perfectly in line with what was announced. They certainly do not count as guaranteed money, and thus are not included in the AAV calculations for the luxury tax.

    That does not mean they are not used AT ALL for luxury tax purposes.

    I’d have to see more clarification to believe otherwise. The statements and the CBA seem to go with my reading of it.

  87. luis April 21st, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    Tar April 21st, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    “It is because of Nova’s repertoire, it is more complete than Hughes. He has more weapons to keep batters off balance.”

    IDK their repertoire’s produce very similar results until runners get on, than it’s night and day difference. I really don’t know what or if anything to make of it.

    ==========================

    Unfortunately, Hughes has a very good FB and nothing else to face hitters. Nova can navigate and keep them guessing, plus he has a very good two seamer, CB and slider that helps him immensely

  88. Ghostwriter April 21st, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    Rich in NJ April 21st, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    Once you decide that a strategy is poor, it’s fair to end the evaluation process of a decision-maker.
    ==============

    I think that it MIGHT be fair to end the evaluation of the decision, but not necessarily the decision-maker.

  89. ron April 21st, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    Pineda suffers setback in Extended Spring Training
    By Mike Axisa
    Via Joel Sherman and Marc Carig, right-hander Michael Pineda felt some weakness in his shoulder during his Extended Spring Training outing today. The Yankees shut him right down and he will go see the team doctor before they determine how to proceed.

    Pineda threw one inning today, his first game action since hitting the disabled list with shoulder tendinitis about three weeks ago. An MRI showed no structural damage to his labrum or rotator cuff at the time. He reported no problems while playing catch and throwing bullpen sessions over the last two weeks or so.

  90. luis April 21st, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    Nick in SF April 21st, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    The second part of the comment doesn’t negate the first part. If it’s too early to tell, why question whether he’s a big game pitcher and exclaim that he cried? If it’s too early to tell, why compare him unfavorably to Nova?

    ==============================

    Because i believe that Nova has far better make up than Pineda. Just by the way they both have handled adversity in the past and the present.

  91. LGY April 21st, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    Terrible news on Pineda.

    One of Garcia or Hughes need to step it up because they both were just extended a life raft with this setback.

  92. Ghostwriter April 21st, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    It looks like Pineda is going to need some time to recover from this thing. Hopefully he won’t lose all of 2012.

  93. luis April 21st, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    86w183 April 21st, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    Jerkface —

    That was the whole purpose of the announcement the other day that such causes would be banned from future contracts.

    As for regurgitating the issues of the Pineda again and again…

    If you check media coverage at the time you’ll find that most baseball people thought the Yankees made the better deal. We won’t know for several years what the bottom line of the deal is… but the Mariners are winning so far.

    =================================

    If you analyze the trade in a vacuum as an exchange of assets, you have a point. That’s why most of the media was in favor of it. But if you look at the particular situation of the club, it was a dumb move.

  94. Rich in NJ April 21st, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    Ghost

    If you believer, as I do, that the process is flawed, then almost an good outcome is almost an accident.

    Stepping back even further, look at his record of trying to trade for starting pitchers.

    When is the last time that he made for a #3 or better starting pitcher that has worked out?

  95. luis April 21st, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    Rich in NJ April 21st, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    Once you decide that a strategy is poor, it’s fair to end the evaluation process of a decision-maker.

    ==================================

    +12345678

  96. Ghostwriter April 21st, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    Most of the media was in favor of the trade because it gave them something to write about.

  97. Nick in SF April 21st, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    Ok, luis, your opinion is that Nova has a far better make up than Pineda.

    What was it that I misinterpreted?

  98. Rich in NJ April 21st, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    Edited version:

    If you believe, as I do, that the process is flawed, then almost any good outcome is an accident.

    Stepping back even further, look at his record of trying to trade for starting pitchers.

    When is the last time that he made a trade for a #3 or better starting pitcher that has worked out?

  99. JobaTipsHisCap April 21st, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    Will they still wear that stupid jersey?

  100. luis April 21st, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    LGY April 21st, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    Terrible news on Pineda.

    One of Garcia or Hughes need to step it up because they both were just extended a life raft with this setback.

    ===========================

    Phelps will

  101. JobaTipsHisCap April 21st, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    Win today to take the series

  102. Rich in NJ April 21st, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    I agree with luis. Phelps now has to be in the mix for a starting job

  103. RadioKev April 21st, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    Argh, now the tired trade argument is ignited again..

    Get well soon Pineda.

  104. pkyankfan69 April 21st, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    With tomorrow likely being and off day due to rain does Jeter really need a half day off verse the Sux today?

  105. tomingeorgia April 21st, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    luis,
    You’re digging in like JAP on this matter. It’s done. Impugning Pineda’s toughness in the face of an injury doesn’t change a thing. Is Montero tearing it up out there? Is Noesi? I couldn’t care less. Let’s figure out how to get Pineda healthy, then go from there.

  106. luis April 21st, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    Nick in SF April 21st, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    Ok, luis, your opinion is that Nova has a far better make up than Pineda.

    What was it that I misinterpreted?

    ============================

    That i was trying to diss Pineda for it, to give yet another reason of why the trade was a bad one. Nothing farther from the truth, i was just answering Bret’s assumption that Pineda was a big game pitcher. I said too early to tell, and that in any event the signs pointed in a different direction.

  107. Nilsson April 21st, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    Nunez has to be given every opportunity to get better on defense. Especially at shortstop. I love what Jeter is doing right now and Nunez’s effectiveness at playing shortstop will actually benefit Jeter in the long run.

  108. Ghostwriter April 21st, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    Rich,

    I think that Cash has a significant blind spot when it comes to pitchers, and it has led him to make a number of mistakes over the years. However, I think that the overall balance for Cashman is positive. He is a good GM, but he has made some pretty bad moves over the years. I would give him a solid B/B+ as a GM: On the plus side, he rebuilt the farm system, he’s started to get control over the payroll, he has made a number of imaginative and clever trades over the years (e.g., Justice and Swisher), and he has kept the Yanks competitive. On the downside are his many misadventures with pitchers (e.g., Weaver, Vasquez, Brown, gawa, etc.) and sticking with Girardi.

  109. yankee 221 April 21st, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    AndrewMarchand
    Pineda has been shut down again. Girardi calls it “somewhat significant.” Full newser soon on site.

    ————-

    Could have seen this coming from a mile away. So glad we didn’t trade the next Cabrera for this guy or anything…

  110. ron April 21st, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    Very bad news on pineda.
    He was supposed to be completely shut down for 3 weeks from what i understood,and that was not done.

    Wonder if he has another mri?
    I would think he has too.

    They should clean up his delivery as well.

  111. luis April 21st, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    tomingeorgia April 21st, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    luis,
    You’re digging in like JAP on this matter. It’s done. Impugning Pineda’s toughness in the face of an injury doesn’t change a thing. Is Montero tearing it up out there? Is Noesi? I couldn’t care less. Let’s figure out how to get Pineda healthy, then go from there.

    =================================

    Hi Tom,

    I didn’t brought up the subject. I just answered to comments that i thought were wrong and felt they needed to be answered. Again, i was not dissing Pineda, i just don’t think he is in the same vicinity of make up as Nova.

    Again, I don’t think the players performance has anything to do in judging this move, so i don’t need that to further my argument. Besides it would be petty and unfair from my part.

    For the record: I want Pineda to become the beast he is supposed to be, and i want him to be healthy.

  112. Nick in SF April 21st, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    Ah, luis, I didn’t say anything about the trade. You misinterpreted what I said.

  113. 86w183 April 21st, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    Maybe I’m wrong here, but the luxury tax is calculated using the AAV of all contracts on the 40-man roster. Therefore how can milestone bonuses and personal service agreements be considered for taxation when they are NOT part of the calculation of AAV????

    I think it’s out of line to call the trade a dumb move. High end pitching is the most valuable thing in MLB and that’s how Pineda is viewed.

    And this is coming from a guy (me) who was opposed to the deal, not so much because of Montero, but because it seemed excessive when combined with the signings of Garcia and Kuroda.

    my work here is done… have a good day all.

  114. Rich in NJ April 21st, 2012 at 2:17 pm

    Ghost

    Where we disagree is the weight that a blind spot for pitching should carry. I think it is a per se disqualifier for holding the job no matter what positive contributions he has made, especially in light of the overemphasis Cashman places on pitching.

    Yes, the farm system has improved, but their record of development, not so much.

    The only homegrown starter of any real value right now is Nova, and given that he was exposed in the Rule 5 draft and sent down last season even though he was one of their five best starters, his development has almost been incidental.

  115. Jerkface April 21st, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    Maybe I’m wrong here, but the luxury tax is calculated using the AAV of all contracts on the 40-man roster. Therefore how can milestone bonuses and personal service agreements be considered for taxation when they are NOT part of the calculation of AAV????

    Because as I posted, bonuses and items which change the yearly payout for a player affect the luxury tax FOR THAT YEAR. There are lots of tricky things about the luxury tax, thats why there are 20 pages about how to calculate it in the CBA.

    If you have a player who has this salary:

    Year 1: 10
    Year 2: 10
    Year 3: 10

    His AAV is 10 million for the luxury tax. If he has a performance/milestone bonus for 6 million that can be earned in ANY year, the AAV is not counted as 12 million (even though it should be). It is instead counted as 16 million in the year it is earned. This loophole addresses the guaranteed nature of the bonuses.

    Theres lots of tricky stuff in the CBA. Did you know if Jeter declines his 8 million dollar option he will count for 9 million against the luxury tax in 2014 even though he won’t be playing for the Yankees? And if he signs another contract it will be 9+AAV of his new one?

  116. Ghostwriter April 21st, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    Rich in NJ April 21st, 2012 at 2:17 pm

    Ghost

    Where we disagree is the weight that a blind spot for pitching should carry. I think it is a per se disqualifier for holding the job no matter what positive contributions he has made, especially in light of the overemphasis Cashman places on pitching.

    Yes, the farm system has improved, but their record of development, not so much.

    The only homegrown starter of any real value right now is Nova, and given that he was exposed in the Rule 5 draft and sent down last season even though he was one of their five best starters, his development has almost been incidental.
    =========

    A number of the pitchers that we developed were traded for other players (e.g. Kennedy for Granderson and Noesi for Pineda/Campos). Moreover, with all of the free agents on the Yankee staff, it makes it tough for a youngster to break through.

  117. yankee 221 April 21st, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    High end pitching might be valuable, but not at the expense of an elite young bat. And Pineda is a guy with half a good season who still has development he must fulfill, in Cashman’s own words. Not like they got Strasurg or Kershaw here. They got a project pitcher with a high upside and an injury history at the expense of an elite young bat.

    They can accumulate as many young assets as they want, but if they can’t develop them properly, what’s the point? It’s like a guy who isn’t a sound driver having a garage full of luxury cars.

    The trade was absolutely unnecessary. Just an impulsive move that devalued the impact of Montero while overrating the idea of “high end pitching”, not taking any injury risks into account, as well as not accounting for the fact that Pineda was still very much a work in progress, coming to an organization with a miserable track record of developing.

    They didn’t even attempt to develop Kennedy after he got off to a rough start.

  118. Against All Odds April 21st, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    They should clean up his delivery as well.

    ————————

    So then he misses most of the yr?

  119. luis April 21st, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    Nick in SF April 21st, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    Ah, luis, I didn’t say anything about the trade. You misinterpreted what I said.

    ==============================

    Probably i did. So no harm no foul!! Friends? :)

  120. Ghostwriter April 21st, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    yankee 221 April 21st, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    =============

    Trading Kennendy and Jackson for Granderson was an excellent trade. It worked out very well for the Yanks, even though we gave up a terrific young pitcher. (However, IMO, I would have much preferred keeping Kennedy over Hughes.)

  121. tomingeorgia April 21st, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    What is the proof to the claim of “eliteness”, other than anecdotal?

  122. luis April 21st, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    “I think it’s out of line to call the trade a dumb move. High end pitching is the most valuable thing in MLB and that’s how Pineda is viewed”

    ==========================

    Again, out of context you may have a point. But when you analyse that we were filled with pitching prospects and no position players, it was a dumb move. In fact, if he was my employee i would have fired him on the spot.

  123. Rich in NJ April 21st, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    “A number of the pitchers that we developed were traded for other players (e.g. Kennedy for Granderson and Noesi for Pineda/Campos). Moreover, with all of the free agents on the Yankee staff, it makes it tough for a youngster to break through.”

    That’s really only one as of now, Ghost. And perhaps trading IPK was a failure in self-scouting if Hughes or Joba were potential trade options. Also, there were reports that he refused to trade Joba in a package for Haren. If true, that hasn’t worked out well either.

    I agree with you that it’s tough to break in, but the same could be said about Pineda, since even if healthy, it wasn’t unforeseeable that he might experience significant growing pains.

    Under the new CBA, if they can’t develop from within, they are likely toast.

  124. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 21st, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    luis – ALWAYS friends!

    :)

  125. Rich in NJ April 21st, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    “High end pitching is the most valuable thing in MLB and that’s how Pineda is viewed.”

    I would take Kemp or any other top young position player over any young pitcher in a heartbeat. They are far more likely to stay healthy over time.

  126. blake April 21st, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    Bad news on Pineda……depends on if it was weakness or soreness…..if it was just weakness its really not all that surprising……it took Hughes most of the season to get his arm strength back and it usually does with these cases it seems……hardly ever a quick fix

  127. Nick in SF April 21st, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    The only foul was in using Pineda’s tears as a weapon to question whether he’s a big game pitcher — which is what I said in the first place!

  128. theREALkevin April 21st, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    Good grief. So much for Pineda taking Garcia’s or Hughes’ spot anytime soon. Maybe Garcia will realize he has another shot now & as a result he pitches well today. We can only hope.

    By the way, Montero is evenly splitting his time between catching & DHing. I looked at the last 8 games he’s played in, and he’s had 4 starts at C and 4 starts at DH. FWIW.

  129. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 21st, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    Ghost – I’m already standing on the parade route. When it comes to believing in the Yankees, I’m always willing to plan ahead.

  130. luis April 21st, 2012 at 2:34 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue April 21st, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    luis – ALWAYS friends!

    :)

    =========================

    :D That’s all that counts!!

  131. Ghostwriter April 21st, 2012 at 2:34 pm

    Rich in NJ April 21st, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    “A number of the pitchers that we developed were traded for other players (e.g. Kennedy for Granderson and Noesi for Pineda/Campos). Moreover, with all of the free agents on the Yankee staff, it makes it tough for a youngster to break through.”

    That’s really only one as of now, Ghost. And perhaps trading IPK was a failure in self-scouting if Hughes or Joba were potential trade options. Also, there were reports that he refused to trade Joba in a package for Haren. If true, that hasn’t worked out well either.

    I agree with you that it’s tough to break in, but the same could be said about Pineda, since even if healthy, it wasn’t unforeseeable that he might experience significant growing pains.

    Under the new CBA, if they can’t develop from within, they are likely toast.
    ==========

    If this bumper crop of pitchers (Banuelos, Betences, Phelps, Mitchell, etc.) doesn’t flourish, then I think that you will have a point. As it is, it is still a bit too soon to make an assessment. At a minimum Cashman deserves credit for seeing which way the wind was blowing, and working to ween the Yanks off their free spending on free agents.

  132. luis April 21st, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    Nick in SF April 21st, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    The only foul was in using Pineda’s tears as a weapon to question whether he’s a big game pitcher — which is what I said in the first place!

    =============================

    Point taken, maybe a poor choice of words

  133. Rich in NJ April 21st, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    “If this bumper crop of pitchers (Banuelos, Betences, Phelps, Mitchell, etc.) doesn’t flourish, then I think that you will have a point. As it is, it is still a bit too soon to make an assessment. At a minimum Cashman deserves credit for seeing which way the wind was blowing, and working to ween the Yanks off their free spending on free agents.”

    Oh, I think Cashman understands a lot. He’ just poor at executing.

  134. Ghostwriter April 21st, 2012 at 2:37 pm

    theREALkevin April 21st, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    Good grief. So much for Pineda taking Garcia’s or Hughes’ spot anytime soon. Maybe Garcia will realize he has another shot now & as a result he pitches well today. We can only hope.

    By the way, Montero is evenly splitting his time between catching & DHing. I looked at the last 8 games he’s played in, and he’s had 4 starts at C and 4 starts at DH. FWIW.
    ==============

    I like today’s matchup for Freddy: The junkballer against a team that is pressing. Here’s hoping Freddy can make the Sox look silly.

  135. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 21st, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    Entertaining my five-year-old niece – either that or she’s entertaining me!

    Hoping to be solo by the time the game starts…

  136. ron April 21st, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    I read that arod’s hr bonuses do not count towards the lt.

    http://riveraveblues.com/2012/.....tax-67259/

  137. luis April 21st, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    If this bumper crop of pitchers (Banuelos, Betences, Phelps, Mitchell, etc.) doesn’t flourish, then I think that you will have a point. As it is, it is still a bit too soon to make an assessment. At a minimum Cashman deserves credit for seeing which way the wind was blowing, and working to ween the Yanks off their free spending on free agents.
    ============================================

    Ghost,

    Sorry to cut in, but the scenario that you are portraying is the only one that i can see this trade as a good one. It would prove that Pineda was a necessity and not a luxury. Not likely though. The past wave of talent made it to the bigs in one capacity or another. I would like Oppenheimer to take over and Pena to be the manager.

  138. luis April 21st, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue April 21st, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    Entertaining my five-year-old niece – either that or she’s entertaining me!

    Hoping to be solo by the time the game starts…

    ===========================

    Hope is the case, we need more Sux bashing in the game thread!! ;)

Leave a comment below


Sponsored by:
 

Search

    Advertisement

    Follow

    Mobile

    Read The LoHud Yankees Blog on the go by navigating to the blog on your smartphone or mobile device's browser. No apps or downloads are required.

Advertisement

Place an ad

Call (914) 694-3581