Yankees starters pushed back a day
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Apr 22, 2012 
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After today’s rain out, the Yankees will simply push their starters back a day, leaving CC Sabathia, Hiroki Kuroda and Phil Hughes to start the three games in Texas. Assuming the Rangers stick with their scheduled rotation, that sets up a Kuroda vs. Yu Darvish matchup on Tuesday.
“There’s going to be a lot of people late for work (in Japan),” Joe Girardi said.
Thursday is another off day, which gives the Yankees the option of skipping Freddy Garcia the next turn through the rotation. Girardi, though, said he hasn’t made any decisions beyond Friday’s start against the Tigers. Ivan Nova will start that game, but the rest of the rotation remains undecided. The Yankees could skip Garcia and go back to Sabathia for Saturday’s game, but Girardi hasn’t committed to anything beyond Nova on Friday.
“We have no made any plans beyond that,” he said.
Here are the Rangers career batting stats vs CC:
http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/.....c-sabathia
Give Garcia a breather.
Skip him.
Let him work on some things on the side.
Refocus.
Let Freddy have a mental health day by facing the O’s instead of the Tigers.
MTU–
if Garcia can’t improve, what’s the likely scenario? Release him, eat the remaining 4M, when you can’t find a trading partner, or just put him at the end of the bench in the bullpen for blowouts?
MTU – I’ve seen too many seasons when one part of the team is not getting the job done and the effect it has on the remaining parts – and it isn’t pretty.
We cannot afford to have the offense playing “come from behind” ball just about every time one of our starters takes the mound. At some point it catches up.
If it were one pitcher in the rotation, or even just two of the five, I might be a little more forgiving. But when you have basically one pitcher getting the job done, then something needs to be done.
Knowing that we have Andy coming back makes me even more eager to identify and get rid of the weakest link.
Just the way I feel.
THAT SAID – I do believe the SP will find a way to right the ship. The unknown is who will have fallen overboard when that happens.
I have infinite patience. If Hughes isn’t tipping his pitches, then I’ll say that I have tired of him.
This is the Yankees, not KC. I don’t want a season of auditioning. Get it right or get lost.
This series will be a good barometer. Maybe it gets A-Rod jump started.
Long question and answer session with Nardi Contrera, Josh Norris and Ashmore.
http://minormatterstrenton.blo…..reras.html
YT-
Some value is better than no value IMO.
If those were the 2 choices he would probably wind up in the pen as a mop up man.
He has a few more starts to get it going though.
Let Freddy have a mental health day by facing the O’s instead of the Tigers.
——————————————–
MTU-
That could be a “breakdown” day- a return to starting vs the team where he threw 5 wild pitches!!
comet April 22nd, 2012 at 4:48 pm
I think Trisha has a good point. The SP so far has been very forgettable. Only Nova and to a lesser extent CC have given us decent outings. What was supposed to be a strength has not been. Now the season is only two weeks old, so it is a rush to judgement. Hughes should get better as should Garcia. Kuroda has pitched well once and not so well twice. Cano is hitting under .250. It is very early in the season to panic.
Having said all that who among us would trust Kuroda, Hughes or Garcia in a must win game right now?
——————————
I expect neither Hughes nor Garcia to improve significantly.They might stink less. OTOH, I still hold out some hope with Kuroda.
They should skip Garcia. Hughes should be on his last legs, rotation-wise. Just about time to give Phelps a shot, imo.
Hughes has pretty decent numbers against Texas and nobody from his ’07 start still with Texas except Young.
Trisha-
very direct.
Thanks for the answer.
I’m just a little surprised is all.
Lot’s of people are getting frustrated.
You are certainly not alone.
Me. I think a bit more time is needed to sort things out.
GB-
The link you posted above appears broken.
MTU, as I said to Comet in the previous thread, it takes a lot for me to lose patience, so when I do, I tend to pay attention to that “inner voice”.
You guys listen to Mariano on the ESPN Sunday Night Conversation? The most interesting comments were about his theme music (the rest was the usual athlete speak mixed with Mariano’s own usual religious rhetoric). I find it interesting that he has no real feelings about the music and it doesn’t get him hyped to come in at all. When you are a fan in the stadium the music is surreal and gets you really pumped, but to Mariano it is just the alarm that says that it is time to enter the game.
YT-
Maybe but I’d still rather him take his chances w the O’s as opposed to the Tigers.
I trust Sabathia, Kuroda, Nova, and the 39 yo version of Pettitte. Stll happy with Phelps.
Let them be our starting 5 soon and if Hughes doesn’t improve his secondary pitches, make the decision whether to send him back to the minors or convert him to the pen where he can do the job with only 1-2 pitches. Once he’s in the pen, his days as a starter for the Yankees are probably over.
Segedin with a 2 run homer to right (#3) for Tampa yanks.
Trisha-
It’s very possible the Ro will look like this in the not too distant future :
CC
Nova
AP
Kuroda
Pick one- Phelps or Hughes
Way too early to make any declarations about the rotation. Way to early.
There’s still 90% of the season to be played. Sabathia has a 5 ERA right now.
I’m not worried at all.
Every year it’s the same thing.
“Once he’s in the pen, his days as a starter for the Yankees are probably over.”
Exactly, which is why an intermediate step has to be taken first otherwise their ROI is dramatically reduced. If they hadn’t rushed him, and if he hadn’t had some bad luck, it wouldn’t matter. But since both have happened, he needs to be afforded every chance to finish off his development.
YT-
Agreed.
If Hughes is sent to the pen once again his days as a Yankee SP are likely over and his value plummets.
Which is why I hope he either pulls it together, or is sent to AAA even thought I think the latter is very unlikely.
MTU, try this one. If it doesn’t work, go to Norris’ site to the right side of LoHud.
Josh Norris?@jnorris427
Always wanted to read a 2,377-word chat @mashmore98 and I had with Nardi Contreras? Voila! Now you can http://minormatterstrenton.blo.....reras.html #Yankees
PacoDooley-
Wild Thing from Major League, is the best entry clip for a closer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_wc9JvTXGc
Charleston game just starting. Mason Williams sitting out today.
GB-
That worked.
Thanks.
I think NC hinted that Campos might be promoted to Tampa at some point.
Sounds like they just need to make some room.
Rich in NJ April 22nd, 2012 at 5:04 pm
“Once he’s in the pen, his days as a starter for the Yankees are probably over.”
Exactly, which is why an intermediate step has to be taken first otherwise their ROI is dramatically reduced. If they hadn’t rushed him, and if he hadn’t had some bad luck, it wouldn’t matter. But since both have happened, he needs to be afforded every chance to finish off his development
————–
But we know what he can do in minors which is dominate. Aren’t we at the point where he just has to show us what he can do? If he can’t then it is what it is
“But we know what he can do in minors which is dominate.”
It’s not about results, it’s about improving his secondary pitches. That’s hard to do in the ML.
Understood but if he is sent down and comes back he still has to get ML hitters out. There is no guarantee he can do it on this level.
“Every year it’s the same thing.”
Actually it’s not the same thing every year.
Last year at this time we had CC, Burnett, Nova, Hughes, and Garcia. We also had Colon in the wings. CC, Nova, Garcia and Colon were reliable, and Burnett won 4 of his first 6 games. This year we have one reliable pitcher – Nova. I’m not worried about CC. There’s a difference between 4 solid starters and 2 solid starters. The first can get you to a championship. The second cannot.
And I don’t believe in screwing around too long to find the right combination. If Hughes can’t find his stuff at this point, unless he’s tipping pitches I’m thinking he’s hopeless. We all know I have little to no faith in Kuroda. Freddy, I don’t know if he’s just given up because he “knows” his days are numbered, or what, but he hasn’t been delivering.
Very unpretty.
I don’t want to see our pen burned out, nor do I want to see our offense spent.
“I have infinite patience. If Hughes isn’t tipping his pitches, then I’ll say that I have tired of him.
This is the Yankees, not KC. I don’t want a season of auditioning. Get it right or get lost.”
“I have infinite patience…Get it right or get lost.”
classic
“Understood but if he is sent down and comes back he still has to get ML hitters out. There is no guarantee he can do it on this level.”
There are no guarantees about anything, But given that has FB has shown renewed life, the investment they have in him, and that he is still not old in any sense, why not give him the best chance to succeed? To this point, they have done the opposite.
It’s not like there’s an important role for him in the pen.
GB7,
Are the River Dogs on MiLB.com, even if it’s just radio?
randy, you are one of the most disingenuous and dishonest posters on this forum. You are so eager to discredit people that you will stoop to twisting their words or even making up things in order to hope you achieve your purpose.
My only hope is that karma continues to catch up with your nastiness. And since I believe in karma, I have no doubt it will and you will have deserved every ounce of it.
You show your true “genius” when you take bits and pieces of peoples’ posts and turn them into something that misrepresents what the poster was saying. That’s dirty, but that’s you.
Stick to counting peoples’ posts and reporting on that. It’s trite but it’s probably when you’re at the top of your game.
Oh, I forgot.
Rich in NJ April 22nd, 2012 at 5:36 pm
“Understood but if he is sent down and comes back he still has to get ML hitters out. There is no guaranteehe can do it on this level.”
There are no guarantees about anything, But given that has FB has shown renewed life, the investment they have in him, and that he is still not old in any sense, why not give him the best chance to succeed? To this point, they have done the opposite.
It’s not like there’s an important role for him in the pen.
———————
The stint in the bullpen was short sighted. But they have shown more faith in Hughes than they have in anyone else minus a big FA
He can take Soriano’s role in the pen.
“THAT SAID – I do believe the SP will find a way to right the ship. The unknown is who will have fallen overboard when that happens.
I have infinite patience. If Hughes isn’t tipping his pitches, then I’ll say that I have tired of him.
This is the Yankees, not KC. I don’t want a season of auditioning. Get it right or get lost.”
you don’t see the humor in saying you have infinite patience and then saying get it right or get lost ?
Tom, only on radio. Here’s the link. The Lexington games will be on Milb.tv in a week or so.
http://medi
a4.aicmail.net:8080/MiLB/GameAudio/LiveStreamFlash/sal_charleston_riverdogs
scroll down to Charleston River Dogs and click on listen live
Campos has allowed 3 hits and a run in 2.1 innings, 2 stikeouts
You apparently “missed” my post that followed that one:
“MTU, as I said to Comet in the previous thread, it takes a lot for me to lose patience, so when I do, I tend to pay attention to that “inner voice”.”
“But they have shown more faith in Hughes than they have in anyone else minus a big FA.”
I’m not sure what faith means when they have rushed him to the ML and jerked him around from pen to starter.
“He can take Soriano’s role in the pen.”
He could, but he won’t. The contract cements his role.
And also, everything in my post that preceded the part you quoted clearly explained why I felt the way I did at this point in time.
GB7,
That link got garbled, can you send it again? Thanks.
GB7,
Ignore last. Sorted it out myself.
Tom, almost all system teams have radio feeds except tampa, though you can hear many of the games on the other team stations. All free.
Rich in NJ April 22nd, 2012 at 5:49 pm
“But they have shown more faith in Hughes than they have in anyone else minus a big FA.”
I’m not sure what faith means when they have rushed him to the ML and jerked him around from pen to starter.
“He can take Soriano’s role in the pen.”
He could, but he won’t. The contract cements his role
—————
They did rush him but he hasn’t been jerked from the pen to the rotation. 2009 was his reliever yr but he hasn’t bounced from starter to bp like Joba or Morrow when he was a Mariner.
The contract cements his spot on the roster not his role. He was brought here to be the 8th inning guy and now he’s pitching the 7th.
Nothing would be better for the Yankees and their fans than for all of the starters to come out in the next week or so and show that they belong in the rotation. That would be optimal. It would also please me no end since I am about the Yankees having top-notch pitching since I believe that top-notch SP is critical to the team’s success.
And if I’m calling it wrong on Kuroda and/or Hughes – or anyone else I’ve questioned – time will tell. And if I am, I’m gladly take my drubbing.
Catch you later. (I know, not if you catch me first…)
trisha-
i guess your humor went out the window when the yankees did their best impersonation of murderer’s row and wiped out the red sox .
so are you happy only when they get your kind of low scoring win?
on a serious note, how are the yankees supposed to build a team around pitching when they built a ball park designed for hitting ?
why didn’t they build a safeco like field if they wanted to suppress runs?
GB7,
You have to adjust yourself to Minor League announcers. They’re earnest, but they sound just like like the professor, retired meteorologist and hardware guy who broadcast the Washington-Wilkes Tigers football games on Friday nights in the Fall. Hell, you have to start somewhere! I guess Chad had to cut his teeth in the bushes, too.
They’ve invested far more in Hughes than they have Kennedy or Joba.
He was guaranteed a rotation spot in 08. He was virtually guaranteed one in 2010 (unless you think Mitre/Gaudin were beating him out). He didn’t have to compete at all in 2011 to get a spot. And he was pretty much assured of a spot this year too after the GM said all winters that he will (declared) win 15 games at least if he stays healthy.
And I’d guess that Hughes has gotten more rope than Betances or Banuelos will get too. Certainly more than someone like Phelps will get if he struggles. Even Nova after the work he did last year and in the playoffs could very well have gotten sent down if Pineda didn’t get hurt after his poor spring.
“They did rush him but he hasn’t been jerked from the pen to the rotation. 2009 was his reliever yr but he hasn’t bounced from starter to bp like Joba or Morrow when he was a Mariner.”
But because they rushed him, he was unable to get sufficient mL time so that he had a full complement of pitches when he came up. Then he got hurt, and since then, because of injuries and being put in the pen,, he also hasn’t gotten sufficient innings to build arm strength in a sustained way. So I don’t think it matters when the jerking around was done. It was done at such a critical time in his development that it’s reasonable to believe that his development has never been finished off in the right way.
Soriano isn’t going to be made a mop up reliever unless he actually sucks every time out.
Until then, there is no important role for Hughes. So why flush any chance he has at being a starter here, especially when they could need another starter at any time?
Anyway, to this point, he has been a lot better than Garcia, and who knows when/if we will ever see Pineda. That means he probably stays in the rotation in NY.
@Y97 exactly Hughes has been given more chances than anyone in recent memory. Now was he rushed sure and the BP stint was not a smart move but it’s not like he hasn’t been supported by the FO. Heck they even brought him up in 09 to start games.
To say that Hughes has been given more chances when he has been in and out of the rotation like a yo yo since he was first called up in 2007 is to miss the forest for the trees.
tomingeorgia April 22nd, 2012 at 6:03 pm
GB7,
You have to adjust yourself to Minor League announcers. They’re earnest, but they sound just like like the professor, retired meteorologist and hardware guy who broadcast the Washington-Wilkes Tigers football games on Friday nights in the Fall. Hell, you have to start somewhere! I guess Chad had to cut his teeth in the bushes, too.
————————————————————————————————————————-
They really are bad, though Buffalo Jay Burnum for Trenton isn’t bad. At least Charleston got rid of the SALLY League version of Ken Harralson when they finally dumped Danny Reed.
He’s been in and out because he hasn’t been able to stay healthy. Maybe he can’t hold up to the rigors of starting.
Best To Ever Do It April 22nd, 2012 at 6:12 pm
@Y97 exactly Hughes has been given more chances than anyone in recent memory. Now was he rushed sure and the BP stint was not a smart move but it’s not like he hasn’t been supported by the FO. Heck they even brought him up in 09 to start games.
————————————————————————————————————————-
does your sister post on here? Sure reads like it with your constant Hughes rants.
“He’s been in and out because he hasn’t been able to stay healthy. Maybe he can’t hold up to the rigors of starting.”
He hasn’t started enough games to know.
The Yankees have signed one scrap heap pitcher after another and given them a chance to reclaim their careers, sometimes in the ML (Colon, Garcia, etc.), sometimes in the mL (Ponson, Silva, etc.).
Yet they have one of their own who is only 26, that still retains a live FB and some evolving secondary pitchers.
And they are supposed to just make him a mop up reliever?
That is a very poor use of resources, and it’s symptomatic of why they have had so much trouble developing starters.
WAY off topic, but if you haven’t heard this, you need to. Beware, Randy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....ture=email
“That is a very poor use of resources, and it’s symptomatic of why they have had so much trouble developing starters”.
=========================================
This………
Hello everyone,
Randy,
Wow thanks for the info, i didn’t know Yaz was a Yankee fan growing up!! That explains everything.
“But because they rushed him, he was unable to get sufficient mL time”
He’s pitched over 300 innings. I think maybe he could have used another yr or even half a season but it’s not like he pitched 100 or even 200 innings.
” Soriano isn’t going to be made a mop up reliever unless he actually sucks every time out”
That could happen
Yes the news on Pineda gives Hughes more time in the rotation.
Another nice break for sux
Damn
Odds,
He should have stayed a season and a half more in the minors working on his secondary stuff.
luis-
i’m not totally sure of that. it’s just what i remember.
GreenBeret7 April 22nd, 2012 at 6:24 pm
Best To Ever Do It April 22nd, 2012 at 6:12 pm @Y97 exactly Hughes has been given more chances than anyone in recent memory. Now was he rushed sure and the BP stint was not a smart move but it’s not like he hasn’t been supported by the FO. Heck they even brought him up in 09 to start games.
————————————————————————————————————————-
does your sister post on here? Sure reads like it with your constant Hughes rants
—————
Constant Hughes rants? I haven’t posted on here in weeks.
On weeks about Hughes
“He’s pitched over 300 innings. I think maybe he could have used another yr or even half a season but it’s not like he pitched 100 or even 200 innings.”
Nova, by way of comparison pitched 591.1 mL innings.
“That could happen.”
It hasn’t happened yet though, so he’s likely staying where he is.
“Yes the news on Pineda gives Hughes more time in the rotation.”
The worst possible reason.
Again, I think Hughes could benefit from more time in the mL because it’s tough to perfect secondary pitches in the ML.
Look what even a short time in the mL did for Nova’s slider.
Hughes, btw, used to throw a very good slider in hs.
Keep Hughes in rotation unless he absolutely bombs every start and assess at end of season in what we got. I personally don’t have lofty expectation of Hughes, but I think he can be a good to mediocre starter in major which is always welcome.
randy l. April 22nd, 2012 at 6:31 pm
luis-
i’m not totally sure of that. it’s just what i remember.
===========================
He was born in Long Island, he was probably a Yankee fan. Did you read the post i wrote to you about Hughes?….Don’t you think he should add a two seamer?
Sorry GB thought you were directing that towards me. My bad
Again, I think Hughes could benefit from more time in the mL because it’s tough to perfect secondary pitches in the ML.
—————
He could benefit I just don’t think because he goes down that means he’s going to come back and change be the guy we all hoped for. I didn’t he pitched bad in his first start and expressed that when some ppl were freaking out.
Cashmoney April 22nd, 2012 at 6:37 pm
Keep Hughes in rotation unless he absolutely bombs every start and assess at end of season in what we got. I personally don’t have lofty expectation of Hughes, but I think he can be a good to mediocre starter in major which is always welcome.
=====================================
That’s setting him for failure IMO…He needs to develop his secondary offerings, the bigs is no place to do it while at the same time trying to deliver on a consistent basis in the middle of a pennant race.
If you haven’t had the tiramisu cake at Ruby Tuesday yet, I would run out now and try it!
So moist.
Rich-
Yankee MiLB philosophy has been to steer guys away from the slider in favor of the curve.
Reason given is that it is supposedly less stressful on the arm (where have I heard that before)
Not sure I buy it but that’s what they do.
MTU
I know. And maybe there is a good reason for that with a pitcher in their late teens. Beyond that I don’t see it, and it’s not like their formula is working.
mick,
Ruby Tuesday? Really?
That’s setting him for failure IMO…
————-
come again? The only person who is directly responsible for his failure and success is Hughes IMO as well, and there is zero assurance that he will refine his secondary pitches in the minor. Its put up and shut up time. leave him in and let him pitch in my humble opinion and leave it be already.
MTU and Rich,
Hughes is 26….I guess he is old enough to try it, even though in my case i would rather have him learn either the splitter or the two seamer. The former would give him a true swing and miss weapon, the latter would allow him to last longer in games.
‘Not thrilled about the rainout, but at least it means the Yanks swept the Red Sox at Fenway and leave Fenway on a high note, and the Red Sox don’t get a chance at immediate / next day redemption today : ) Also it postpones Bard having to face the Yanks if he’s still even in the rotation when the Red Sox face the Yanks again 7/6-8 at Fenway. The Yanks could miss Lester and/or Beckett again then. More than all this, it means the Yanks have the option to skip Garcia for a rotation turn.
You know what’s amazing about the 2012 Yankees so far?
They are 9-3 – playing 3 wins out of every 4 games, .750 ball – since being swept by the Rays despite getting only one good start out of NINE starts from Kuroda, Garcia, and Hughes – 3/5ths or 60% of their rotation (Kuroda’s second start in the Yankees home opener.) The Rays pitched badly in their first two wins over the Yanks and had to work for those wins and the only time the Yanks have really, truly been dominated by a starter this year was the rubber game of that series with the Rays (Hellickson.)
I agree with Yankee Trader. The Yanks should start Garcia against the Orioles instead of the Tigers. The Yanks could use CC against the Tigers and have a better chance to win against them with him pitching than they have if Garcia pitching. The Yanks would only be wasting CC against the Os. The Orioles are the Orioles. Maybe Garcia finally does well with a bit of rest against them. I’d be thrilled with 5 / 5.1 / 5.2 IP 2-3 ER from him cuz who’s to say he doesn’t leave with one out in the fifth with a 7-3 lead? If he does well vs. the Os, he should get two more starts.
lol@ the sign…
http://sports.yahoo.com/photos.....1;mlb.html
IE Bard has to wonder what it’ll be like to face the Yanks even more, not that the Yanks avoid facing him (LOL to that, he avoided them.)
Luis-
Donde esta Hugo ?
Muerto ?
Cash,
I respect your opinion, but in my view that is basically ending his career with the Yankees long term and throwing away years of investment both in time and money.
Tampa Yanks beat Dunedin 6-4 with Turley getting the win and Montgomery get his 3rd save, but, he didn’t make it easy.
Campos got hit around a bit today, 6 innings, 8 hits, 2 runs, 1 walk, 5 strikeouts. 88 pitches, 61 strikes, 8 ground outs, 1 fly out. He did strike out one of Toronto’s top prospect, Josh Bell 3 times.
Final box score of Tampa Yanks.
http://www.milb.com/milb/stats.....a_tbyafa_1
Luis-
I have been a broken record about Hughes being a perfect candidate for the split, or even the 2-seamer.
Not in the Yankee cookie-cutter approach.
Circle change and curve is what’s on the menu.
new thread —->
“The only person who is directly responsible for his failure and success is Hughes IMO as well, and there is zero assurance that he will refine his secondary pitches in the minor. Its put up and shut up time.”
Hughes bears responsibility for staying in shape, but beyond that, it’s unreasonable to expect someone who was never given sufficient mL innings to develop his secondary pitches to just come to the ML and develop his secondary pitches.
The person(s) who have reached put up/shut up time in terms of development are Cashman and his people, let alone for his trades for starting pitchers.
MTU April 22nd, 2012 at 6:50 pm
Luis-
Donde esta Hugo ?
Muerto ?
========================
That’s the rumor
But people with reliable info tell me that he is alive for the time being. Apparently he is scheduled to return to the country either tonight or tomorrow. I wouldn’t be surprised if the latter were the case.
On the bright side, things are getting worse for him by the minute. Down here, things are very tense. Since the Supreme Court Justice escaped to the US and is cooperating with DEA there are a lot of people nervous down here. Things could get dicey in a hurry.
Hughes bears responsibility for staying in shape, but beyond that, it’s unreasonable to expect someone who was never given sufficient mL innings to develop his secondary pitches to just come to the ML and develop his secondary pitches.
The person(s) who have reached put up/shut up time in terms of development are Cashman and his people, let alone for his trades for starting pitchers.
—————-
Most likely Rich, Hughes will never be send down to the minor which leaves the reality of Hughes doing on the ML level and try to refine it. if he cant do that then it’s on him.
On C and Co. I think, Rich, I honestly don’t know when you can make that assessment in terms of the program bears fruits… til sanchez and bichette or when warren, Bs and others finally arrives on the scene? I am not enamored with assessment with pitching either on FA front.