Pregame notes: “It’s certainly not a good situation”
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Apr 25, 2012 
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When the Yankees traded for Michael Pineda, they did a full physical that included an MRI. When he struggled with velocity and felt shoulder soreness at the end of spring training, the Yankees did another MRI. Neither test showed any problems. When Pineda did regular resistance tests — in spring training and even immediately before Saturday’s extended spring training start — “he tested out strong as a bull,” according to general manager Brian Cashman.
All of that changed after the 15th pitch on Saturday. That’s when the Yankees believe Pineda actually tore the front of his labrum.
“The belief is that without a doubt, the injury occurred during that rehab outing,” Cashman said. “But I think it’s real fair to speculate that there was something there, laying dormant, that wasn’t detectable during regular MRIs.”
The injury that showed up during Tuesday’s dye contrast MRI is significant enough that Dr. Christopher Ahmad told the Yankees “there’s no question” it would have shown up on a regular MRI as well. The Yankees fully believe that there was no problem the Mariners were aware of. The Yankees had full access to Pineda’s medical records and there was no history of any sort of shoulder problem.
Cashman said he’s “devastated” and called the diagnosis “tragic.” If there’s a silver lining it comes in two parts: 1. The Yankees believe the problem can be repaired arthroscopically, which is a less invasive procedure; and 2. There is no damage to the rotator cuff.
“We’re being cautiously optimistic,” Dr. Ahmad said. “One of the nice features of his injury is that his rotator cuff is not injured as part of this. His rotator cuff looked very, very good. When the rotator cuff is damaged as part of the injury problem, that has a much worse prognosis and influences velocity and ability to pitch. His rotator cuff looks great and this is isolated to his labrum, and that’s why we feel more optimistic about him having a good result.”
All of that said, the silver lining is too thin to be considered truly good news. This is close to the worst-case scenario, and the Yankees expect Pineda to miss a full 12 months (meaning he could be pitching in the big leagues within 12 months, not that he’ll be off a mound in 12 months).
“There is a high percentage that players come back and recover from this,” Cashman said. “As I think Chris said, he was cautiously optimistic. We’re not going to downplay the significance of this injury, but there is a high success rate coming back from this particular surgery. It certainly could be better, I guess. If we weren’t dealing with this, it would be a certainly better situation. It could be worse if it involved a rotator cuff. But it’s certainly not a good situation.”
• As you can imagine, pretty much all of pregame was devoted to Pineda, and obviously there will be much more on the blog about it in the next day or two. I’ll post more from Cashman and Dr. Ahmad later, but we’re about an hour from game time, so we’ll leave it here for now. The very basic details speak for themselves, I guess.
• As if you needed any more reason to pay attention to Trenton tonight, the Pineda injury certainly makes Andy Pettitte look more like a necessity than a luxury. In the wake of Pineda’s diagnosis, both Pettitte and Phil Hughes take on added significance. “I believe our guys can pitch,” Girardi said. “Guys just gotta get it done.”
• Girardi said the decision to start Freddy Garcia on Saturday was partially because he didn’t want Garcia taking too much time off, and partially because the liked the opportunity to give CC Sabathia an extra day of rest before entering a stretch with one off day in basically a month.
• Girardi said he checked with Sabathia before making the decision to pitch Garcia on Saturday.
Associated Press photo
trading super prospects is fine. if they were so set on dumping montero they should have snagged a POSITION prospect like Giancarlo Stanton from Florida. trading the best prospect you have for a pitcher, let alone one with the performance issues Pineda had in the 2nd half, is moronic.
this is the same guy who traded arodys vizcaino for Javier Vazquez (who had already shown he was too soft to handle NY). Cashman’s ineptitude with pitching truly knows no bounds. amazing how arodys was unknown in his time as a Yankee mL-er and becomes a super prospect as soon as he gets out of here.
this organization is unbelievably stupid when it comes to young pitching.
but hey, relax y’all!! Pineda’s rotator cuff is okay, it’s only arthroscopic, and he will be back in only a year! in the meantime grab a happy meal and watch young Phil Hughes get torched by the Rangers tonight.
It’s so obvious Michael Pineda has an amputated arm. How could Cashman not notice?
What is the necessity for Andy to be rushed back ? It’s not the Pineada factor.
Why is Garcia being pampered? He’s no Colon.
Who says recovery from labrum surgery has good results? Not from what I’ve read.
All good questions Mick.
and the adage plays true again. “you can never have enough pitching”
Reasons for optimism?
BryanHoch profile
BryanHoch A few names of pitchers who had labral tears: Clemens, Schilling, Chris Carpenter, Brandon Webb, Ted Lilly, Jeff Francis, Ben Sheets
Sheets, Webb, and Francis were shells of their former selves. Proofing it’s a 50-50 crapshoot at best.
The fact that Pineda is out for at least a year and the killer B’s struggling. The pitching depth has taken a hit. I know with Manny and Delin there’s gonna be some growing pains, but I thought these two would turn it around in Scranton. It’s early and I hope someone can step up to the plate. This now makes Campos that much more important to the future if Pineda can’t come back from this injury (as for the trade itself).
Half of those guys died or are terrible.
Ted Lilly had fraying and debris cleaned up, not even the same kind of injury. It was giving him pain, but not affecting his ability to pitch.
“We’re being cautiously optimistic,” Dr. Ahmad said. “One of the nice features of his injury is that his rotator cuff is not injured as part of this. His rotator cuff looked very, very good. When the rotator cuff is damaged as part of the injury problem, that has a much worse prognosis and influences velocity and ability to pitch. His rotator cuff looks great and this is isolated to his labrum, and that’s why we feel more optimistic about him having a good result.”
This area is very complex and it is difficult to reliably get good pictures of this area with MRI.
However, if the MRI definitely shows a tear then frequently it will be present. The problem is that the MRI may miss smaller tears and cannot reliably make the diagnosis in larger tears of the labrum. Johns Hopkins Department of Orthopedic Surgery
Going under the assumption that Montero was going to be traded for someone this winter, whether right or wrong, could they have gotten more is the question to ask of Cashman.
If he was ordered to do this and disagreed, was he to resign or follow marching orders?
Yeah, we need a GM that knows better than those quack “doctors” that said he was ok, twice.
So the Red Sox say that the Cubs Chris Carpenter that went to the red sox as Theo Epstein compensation was injured with the Cubs, and they want more compensation. But here’s Cashmania saying the Mariners did nothing wrong and letting them completely off the hook. No surprise.
We lost a huge cog in our lineup for nothing. We’ve gotten jobbed by the Mariners and Jack Zero now twice. Cliff Lee and Pineda. And we’ll be jobbed a 3rd time when the Mariners gift Felix to the Red Sox for cupcakes and donuts.
You can either take this like Debbie Downer or you can be cautiously optimistic. The way you do it is up to you. We’re certainly not going to know anything until Pineda is ready to start throwing again.
I prefer to believe Dr. Ahmad than to go with the most pessimistic reports written by the lohud doctors.
Just the way I roll.
Find me an orthopedic surgeon that doesn’t speak optimistically prior to surgery.
Pineda is done. He’ll never pitch effectively with us ever, if he pitches with us at all. He’ll be Chien Ming Wang following injury or worse. This ought to give Shallow Hal and Stank Steinbrenner motivation to go after Hamels this offseason.
Lol
Another cashmans wonderful signing?
He will make millions without throwing one single pitch in the first year.
Cool.
In trying not to be the “Old Yankees” the Yankees have passed on Halliday,Lee and Darvish. So who are they trying to be?The Mets?
The shame in it is that we gave Montero away.
The bigger shame would be if ownership dictated it .
To say he was not needed because he had no position is too easy.
Would it have been harder to survive the bad PR if he did hit and was then traded?
” But I think it’s real fair to speculate that there was something there, laying dormant….
————————————————————–
Like a torn labrum sleeper cell ?
This is precisely why the Yanks need deep cover scouts. Intelligence is the key.
jacksquat, if you’ve been around for other athlete injuries, you know that the most pessimistic bunch ever gathered in one place have managed to find lohud.
I read the same kind of prognostication and foreboding and pessimistic crap when Joba was hurt a few seasons ago (they were all wrong, of course, when all was said and done). It went on for two straight days with the lohud “doctors” telling everyone else how it was going to turn out.
There should be emmys given out for high drama.
************
LGY, having had multiple orthopedic surgeries, I can tell you that the doctors are realistic in what they tell you as opposed to giddily optimistic. I was in a full leg cast for a year after an accident, and nobody was strewing daisies at me. I recovered a lot more quickly than they anticipated because I worked at it like crazy.
I’m sure Pineda will too.
Shallow Hal and Stank are nothing like their father. They wont spend exorbitant amounts of money to win. They will treat the Yankees like a business. We already saw with Yu. We’ll see again with Hamels.
take this like Debbie Downer or you can be cautiously optimistic.
=========================
that could change tmw if they get in and find out its a bigger tear.
than arthroscopic is out the window.
Being in Milwaukee, it was evident that the labrum injury ended Sheets’ career, for all intents and purposes. He tried to keep pitching, but was never the same, and his velocity never came back to his pre-injury level.
Yankees just can’t develop young pitchers, period. The last pitcher they developed in the system who has pitched in the major league for more than 5 years: Andy Pettitte.
I can tell you too that with all of the litigation going on, doctors now make sure to disclose every possible thing that could go wrong.
Optimism is probably part of the equation when a doctor legitimately feels there is reason for optimism.
We are a litigious society – lucky for you!
Yankees just can’t develop young pitchers, period.
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they never had to when they had money…oops.
qiantom, you could also say any pitcher the Yankees give full effort to developing is crap since Andy. Nova and Wang were unknowns. But this isnt on the Yankees, this is on Jack Zero cheating us.
“that could change tmw if they get in and find out its a bigger tear.
than arthroscopic is out the window.”
This is true. But no need to visit that unless we are told there is need. There is as much possibility that there will not be a bigger tear.
Cashman and the word “bull” go together very well.
I’m sure ths has been said.
When is Cashman being fired?
“When is Cashman being fired?”
Any decade now.
One of the nice features of the injury?
Lmao
I think he had a likely small tear. That is very different from saying it was reasonably discoverable. I obviously don’t know what a contrast MRI would have shown, but I doubt teams allow such testing as it is intrusive and may present some small risk.
“One of the nice features of the injury?”
Yeah, that’s almost in the: “Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play” category.
fire cashman
the dude knows nothing about baseball, just knows how to cheat on his wife
Just because the timing is sooo perfect right now- Montero 1-1 tonight with an opposite field RBI single.
I wouldn’t say he knows nothing, but it’s hard to believe that there isn’t a more qualified candidate.
Trisha
You know Ahmad is not even the one doing the surgery?
On a happy note, Mason Williams went 4-4 with a homer, double and walk.
I go back to the night when the trade was made and Cahsman told Klapisch he took an “enormous risk” making the trade.
Little did he know how right he truly was. Though anyone looking at it logically could have seen something like this as a legit possibility – that alone being enough to not make this kind of trade. It’s simply not worth it to acquire a high upside, project pitcher.
This is precisely why the Yanks need deep cover scouts. Intelligence is the key.
————
deep cover reads exciting, I think i found my calling! dunno about the the intelligence part.
LGY – who’s doing it? I thought I read that Ahmad was the surgeon.
LGY – this is what I read.
“Pineda, 23, is scheduled to have arthroscopic surgery to repair the tear next Tuesday, performed by Dr. David Altchek, assisted by Dr. Christopher Ahmad, the Yankees head team physician.”
He’ll be there but Altchek will be the head honcho.
Anyway, GO YANKEES!!!
GO PHIL HUGHES!!!!
I’m feeling good about his start. Okay, pretty good.
trisha – true pinstriped blue April 25th, 2012 at 7:53 pm
LGY – who’s doing it? I thought I read that Ahmad was the surgeon.
———
Pineda requested Altchek.
Because the Mets team doctor is the best! Why he created Frankenstein.
Rich in NJ April 25th, 2012 at 7:39 pm
“One of the nice features of the injury?”
Yeah, that’s almost in the: “Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play” category.
////
LOL.
Trisha -
Agreed!
Go Yankees and get it done Hughes. Pitch like we know you can!
LGY – he certainly has a good pedigree!
http://www.hss.edu/physicians_altchek-david.asp
Glad to see most of you idiots are writing off pineda. And I’m talking to the obnoxious bloggers who live at home with their mother eating meatloaf, adding nothing but rubbish to the game threads.
Most of you trolls only come here during gameday. You’re a bunch of reactionary fools!!!
If most of you “self proclaimed” baseball geniuses were so damn smart you would be working for a MLB team. Instead your blogging on LOHUD. My advice; go coach a tee ball team.
Quick dinner run.
Back in a few.
Rich in NJ April 25th, 2012 at 7:39 pm
“One of the nice features of the injury?”
———
Another nice feature – he’s cost controlled for another year.
Everybody is making this injury look like a bad thing.
lol @ the writers tweeing Jack Z. quotes saying Pineda was healthy. As if he was going to risk punishment for saying anything else.
He completely aced Cashman – not based on the results, but based on his allocation of his resource vs. Cashman’s allocation of his. He traded away a guy who declined in the 2nd half last year at an area of strength overall, while still retaining his overall best asset in Felix who the Yankees have lusted after publicly for years. Yankees handed over their best and only young hitter at a position that, in the near-future, will likely be a weakness for them for a guy that fills a need they are allegedly “strong” in, pitching.
Just a poor, poor trade.
Another nice feature – he’s cost controlled for another year.
–
No he isn’t. Players on the DL accrue service time. Sorry to spoil your silver lining.
“lol @ the writers tweeing Jack Z. quotes saying Pineda was healthy.”
He was breathing, right?
Jerkface – I was just being sarcastic, but I didn’t know players on the DL get service time.
Poor kid. I hope he is able to recover. The Yankees will be alright without him, but this injury could cost Pineda a great career.
A slugging vaquero
One Jesus Montero
Was going to be the next Munson
But Cashman knew better
Jesus for Pineda
Seems he was held up for ransom
Hit. The. Ball. Harder.
Just curious. But couldn’t Pettitte have thrown as many pitches as Hughes did tonight and lasted longer and probably have had better results ?? They should just skip the rest of his minor league outings and just do it here. It’s not like Hughes is giving them any length either.