The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Pregame notes: “It’s certainly not a good situation”

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Apr 25, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

When the Yankees traded for Michael Pineda, they did a full physical that included an MRI. When he struggled with velocity and felt shoulder soreness at the end of spring training, the Yankees did another MRI. Neither test showed any problems. When Pineda did regular resistance tests — in spring training and even immediately before Saturday’s extended spring training start — “he tested out strong as a bull,” according to general manager Brian Cashman.

All of that changed after the 15th pitch on Saturday. That’s when the Yankees believe Pineda actually tore the front of his labrum.

“The belief is that without a doubt, the injury occurred during that rehab outing,” Cashman said. “But I think it’s real fair to speculate that there was something there, laying dormant, that wasn’t detectable during regular MRIs.”

The injury that showed up during Tuesday’s dye contrast MRI is significant enough that Dr. Christopher Ahmad told the Yankees “there’s no question” it would have shown up on a regular MRI as well. The Yankees fully believe that there was no problem the Mariners were aware of. The Yankees had full access to Pineda’s medical records and there was no history of any sort of shoulder problem.

Cashman said he’s “devastated” and called the diagnosis “tragic.” If there’s a silver lining it comes in two parts: 1. The Yankees believe the problem can be repaired arthroscopically, which is a less invasive procedure; and 2. There is no damage to the rotator cuff.

“We’re being cautiously optimistic,” Dr. Ahmad said. “One of the nice features of his injury is that his rotator cuff is not injured as part of this. His rotator cuff looked very, very good. When the rotator cuff is damaged as part of the injury problem, that has a much worse prognosis and influences velocity and ability to pitch. His rotator cuff looks great and this is isolated to his labrum, and that’s why we feel more optimistic about him having a good result.”

All of that said, the silver lining is too thin to be considered truly good news. This is close to the worst-case scenario, and the Yankees expect Pineda to miss a full 12 months (meaning he could be pitching in the big leagues within 12 months, not that he’ll be off a mound in 12 months).

“There is a high percentage that players come back and recover from this,” Cashman said. “As I think Chris said, he was cautiously optimistic. We’re not going to downplay the significance of this injury, but there is a high success rate coming back from this particular surgery. It certainly could be better, I guess. If we weren’t dealing with this, it would be a certainly better situation. It could be worse if it involved a rotator cuff. But it’s certainly not a good situation.”

• As you can imagine, pretty much all of pregame was devoted to Pineda, and obviously there will be much more on the blog about it in the next day or two. I’ll post more from Cashman and Dr. Ahmad later, but we’re about an hour from game time, so we’ll leave it here for now. The very basic details speak for themselves, I guess.

• As if you needed any more reason to pay attention to Trenton tonight, the Pineda injury certainly makes Andy Pettitte look more like a necessity than a luxury. In the wake of Pineda’s diagnosis, both Pettitte and Phil Hughes take on added significance. “I believe our guys can pitch,” Girardi said. “Guys just gotta get it done.”

• Girardi said the decision to start Freddy Garcia on Saturday was partially because he didn’t want Garcia taking too much time off, and partially because the liked the opportunity to give CC Sabathia an extra day of rest before entering a stretch with one off day in basically a month.

• Girardi said he checked with Sabathia before making the decision to pitch Garcia on Saturday.

Associated Press photo

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168 Responses to “Pregame notes: “It’s certainly not a good situation””

  1. Frozen Rope April 25th, 2012 at 7:06 pm

    trading super prospects is fine. if they were so set on dumping montero they should have snagged a POSITION prospect like Giancarlo Stanton from Florida. trading the best prospect you have for a pitcher, let alone one with the performance issues Pineda had in the 2nd half, is moronic.

    this is the same guy who traded arodys vizcaino for Javier Vazquez (who had already shown he was too soft to handle NY). Cashman’s ineptitude with pitching truly knows no bounds. amazing how arodys was unknown in his time as a Yankee mL-er and becomes a super prospect as soon as he gets out of here.

    this organization is unbelievably stupid when it comes to young pitching.

    but hey, relax y’all!! Pineda’s rotator cuff is okay, it’s only arthroscopic, and he will be back in only a year! in the meantime grab a happy meal and watch young Phil Hughes get torched by the Rangers tonight.

  2. Bret The Hitman April 25th, 2012 at 7:09 pm

    It’s so obvious Michael Pineda has an amputated arm. How could Cashman not notice?

  3. mick April 25th, 2012 at 7:11 pm

    What is the necessity for Andy to be rushed back ? It’s not the Pineada factor.
    Why is Garcia being pampered? He’s no Colon.
    Who says recovery from labrum surgery has good results? Not from what I’ve read.

  4. MTU April 25th, 2012 at 7:14 pm

    All good questions Mick.

    ;)

  5. cs in la April 25th, 2012 at 7:14 pm

    and the adage plays true again. “you can never have enough pitching”

  6. mick April 25th, 2012 at 7:16 pm

    Reasons for optimism?

    BryanHoch profile

    BryanHoch A few names of pitchers who had labral tears: Clemens, Schilling, Chris Carpenter, Brandon Webb, Ted Lilly, Jeff Francis, Ben Sheets

  7. Frozen Rope April 25th, 2012 at 7:18 pm

    Sheets, Webb, and Francis were shells of their former selves. Proofing it’s a 50-50 crapshoot at best.

  8. NYY fan in NH April 25th, 2012 at 7:18 pm

    The fact that Pineda is out for at least a year and the killer B’s struggling. The pitching depth has taken a hit. I know with Manny and Delin there’s gonna be some growing pains, but I thought these two would turn it around in Scranton. It’s early and I hope someone can step up to the plate. This now makes Campos that much more important to the future if Pineda can’t come back from this injury (as for the trade itself).

  9. Jerkface April 25th, 2012 at 7:19 pm

    Half of those guys died or are terrible.

    Ted Lilly had fraying and debris cleaned up, not even the same kind of injury. It was giving him pain, but not affecting his ability to pitch.

  10. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 25th, 2012 at 7:19 pm

    “We’re being cautiously optimistic,” Dr. Ahmad said. “One of the nice features of his injury is that his rotator cuff is not injured as part of this. His rotator cuff looked very, very good. When the rotator cuff is damaged as part of the injury problem, that has a much worse prognosis and influences velocity and ability to pitch. His rotator cuff looks great and this is isolated to his labrum, and that’s why we feel more optimistic about him having a good result.

    This area is very complex and it is difficult to reliably get good pictures of this area with MRI.

    However, if the MRI definitely shows a tear then frequently it will be present. The problem is that the MRI may miss smaller tears and cannot reliably make the diagnosis in larger tears of the labrum. Johns Hopkins Department of Orthopedic Surgery

  11. mick April 25th, 2012 at 7:21 pm

    Going under the assumption that Montero was going to be traded for someone this winter, whether right or wrong, could they have gotten more is the question to ask of Cashman.

    If he was ordered to do this and disagreed, was he to resign or follow marching orders?

  12. jacksquat April 25th, 2012 at 7:21 pm

    Yeah, we need a GM that knows better than those quack “doctors” that said he was ok, twice.

  13. versonine April 25th, 2012 at 7:22 pm

    So the Red Sox say that the Cubs Chris Carpenter that went to the red sox as Theo Epstein compensation was injured with the Cubs, and they want more compensation. But here’s Cashmania saying the Mariners did nothing wrong and letting them completely off the hook. No surprise.

    We lost a huge cog in our lineup for nothing. We’ve gotten jobbed by the Mariners and Jack Zero now twice. Cliff Lee and Pineda. And we’ll be jobbed a 3rd time when the Mariners gift Felix to the Red Sox for cupcakes and donuts.

  14. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 25th, 2012 at 7:22 pm

    You can either take this like Debbie Downer or you can be cautiously optimistic. The way you do it is up to you. We’re certainly not going to know anything until Pineda is ready to start throwing again.

    I prefer to believe Dr. Ahmad than to go with the most pessimistic reports written by the lohud doctors.

    Just the way I roll.

  15. LGY April 25th, 2012 at 7:23 pm

    Find me an orthopedic surgeon that doesn’t speak optimistically prior to surgery.

  16. versonine April 25th, 2012 at 7:24 pm

    Pineda is done. He’ll never pitch effectively with us ever, if he pitches with us at all. He’ll be Chien Ming Wang following injury or worse. This ought to give Shallow Hal and Stank Steinbrenner motivation to go after Hamels this offseason.

  17. JobaTipsHisCap April 25th, 2012 at 7:24 pm

    Lol

    Another cashmans wonderful signing?
    He will make millions without throwing one single pitch in the first year.

    Cool.

  18. vrsce April 25th, 2012 at 7:28 pm

    In trying not to be the “Old Yankees” the Yankees have passed on Halliday,Lee and Darvish. So who are they trying to be?The Mets?

  19. mick April 25th, 2012 at 7:28 pm

    The shame in it is that we gave Montero away.
    The bigger shame would be if ownership dictated it .
    To say he was not needed because he had no position is too easy.
    Would it have been harder to survive the bad PR if he did hit and was then traded?

  20. Bronx Jeers April 25th, 2012 at 7:28 pm

    ” But I think it’s real fair to speculate that there was something there, laying dormant….

    ————————————————————–

    Like a torn labrum sleeper cell ?

    This is precisely why the Yanks need deep cover scouts. Intelligence is the key.

  21. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 25th, 2012 at 7:29 pm

    jacksquat, if you’ve been around for other athlete injuries, you know that the most pessimistic bunch ever gathered in one place have managed to find lohud.

    I read the same kind of prognostication and foreboding and pessimistic crap when Joba was hurt a few seasons ago (they were all wrong, of course, when all was said and done). It went on for two straight days with the lohud “doctors” telling everyone else how it was going to turn out.

    There should be emmys given out for high drama.

    ************

    LGY, having had multiple orthopedic surgeries, I can tell you that the doctors are realistic in what they tell you as opposed to giddily optimistic. I was in a full leg cast for a year after an accident, and nobody was strewing daisies at me. I recovered a lot more quickly than they anticipated because I worked at it like crazy.

    I’m sure Pineda will too.

  22. versonine April 25th, 2012 at 7:30 pm

    Shallow Hal and Stank are nothing like their father. They wont spend exorbitant amounts of money to win. They will treat the Yankees like a business. We already saw with Yu. We’ll see again with Hamels.

  23. mick April 25th, 2012 at 7:30 pm

    take this like Debbie Downer or you can be cautiously optimistic.
    =========================
    that could change tmw if they get in and find out its a bigger tear.
    than arthroscopic is out the window.

  24. muwarriorsfan April 25th, 2012 at 7:31 pm

    Being in Milwaukee, it was evident that the labrum injury ended Sheets’ career, for all intents and purposes. He tried to keep pitching, but was never the same, and his velocity never came back to his pre-injury level.

  25. qiantom April 25th, 2012 at 7:31 pm

    Yankees just can’t develop young pitchers, period. The last pitcher they developed in the system who has pitched in the major league for more than 5 years: Andy Pettitte.

  26. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 25th, 2012 at 7:32 pm

    I can tell you too that with all of the litigation going on, doctors now make sure to disclose every possible thing that could go wrong.

    Optimism is probably part of the equation when a doctor legitimately feels there is reason for optimism.

    We are a litigious society – lucky for you!

    ;)

  27. mick April 25th, 2012 at 7:33 pm

    Yankees just can’t develop young pitchers, period.
    ==================
    they never had to when they had money…oops.

  28. versonine April 25th, 2012 at 7:33 pm

    qiantom, you could also say any pitcher the Yankees give full effort to developing is crap since Andy. Nova and Wang were unknowns. But this isnt on the Yankees, this is on Jack Zero cheating us.

  29. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 25th, 2012 at 7:33 pm

    “that could change tmw if they get in and find out its a bigger tear.
    than arthroscopic is out the window.”

    This is true. But no need to visit that unless we are told there is need. There is as much possibility that there will not be a bigger tear.

  30. Rich in NJ April 25th, 2012 at 7:33 pm

    Cashman and the word “bull” go together very well.

  31. PittsburghYankeeFan April 25th, 2012 at 7:34 pm

    I’m sure ths has been said.

    When is Cashman being fired?

  32. Rich in NJ April 25th, 2012 at 7:35 pm

    “When is Cashman being fired?”

    Any decade now.

  33. raymagnetic April 25th, 2012 at 7:36 pm

    One of the nice features of the injury?

    Lmao

  34. austinmac April 25th, 2012 at 7:37 pm

    I think he had a likely small tear. That is very different from saying it was reasonably discoverable. I obviously don’t know what a contrast MRI would have shown, but I doubt teams allow such testing as it is intrusive and may present some small risk.

  35. Rich in NJ April 25th, 2012 at 7:39 pm

    “One of the nice features of the injury?”

    Yeah, that’s almost in the: “Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play” category.

  36. yankfan April 25th, 2012 at 7:39 pm

    fire cashman

    the dude knows nothing about baseball, just knows how to cheat on his wife

  37. theREALkevin April 25th, 2012 at 7:43 pm

    Just because the timing is sooo perfect right now- Montero 1-1 tonight with an opposite field RBI single.

  38. Rich in NJ April 25th, 2012 at 7:44 pm

    I wouldn’t say he knows nothing, but it’s hard to believe that there isn’t a more qualified candidate.

  39. LGY April 25th, 2012 at 7:45 pm

    Trisha

    You know Ahmad is not even the one doing the surgery?

  40. austinmac April 25th, 2012 at 7:45 pm

    On a happy note, Mason Williams went 4-4 with a homer, double and walk.

  41. Yank 97 April 25th, 2012 at 7:46 pm

    I go back to the night when the trade was made and Cahsman told Klapisch he took an “enormous risk” making the trade.

    Little did he know how right he truly was. Though anyone looking at it logically could have seen something like this as a legit possibility – that alone being enough to not make this kind of trade. It’s simply not worth it to acquire a high upside, project pitcher.

  42. Cashmoney April 25th, 2012 at 7:47 pm

    This is precisely why the Yanks need deep cover scouts. Intelligence is the key.
    ————
    deep cover reads exciting, I think i found my calling! dunno about the the intelligence part.

  43. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 25th, 2012 at 7:53 pm

    LGY – who’s doing it? I thought I read that Ahmad was the surgeon.

  44. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 25th, 2012 at 7:55 pm

    LGY – this is what I read.

    “Pineda, 23, is scheduled to have arthroscopic surgery to repair the tear next Tuesday, performed by Dr. David Altchek, assisted by Dr. Christopher Ahmad, the Yankees head team physician.”

    He’ll be there but Altchek will be the head honcho.

  45. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 25th, 2012 at 7:56 pm

    Anyway, GO YANKEES!!!

    GO PHIL HUGHES!!!!

    I’m feeling good about his start. Okay, pretty good.

    :)

  46. LGY April 25th, 2012 at 7:56 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue April 25th, 2012 at 7:53 pm
    LGY – who’s doing it? I thought I read that Ahmad was the surgeon.

    ———

    Pineda requested Altchek.

  47. Jerkface April 25th, 2012 at 7:57 pm

    Because the Mets team doctor is the best! Why he created Frankenstein.

  48. J. Alfred Prufrock April 25th, 2012 at 7:57 pm

    Rich in NJ April 25th, 2012 at 7:39 pm
    “One of the nice features of the injury?”

    Yeah, that’s almost in the: “Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play” category.
    ////

    LOL.

  49. Locke April 25th, 2012 at 7:57 pm

    Trisha -

    Agreed!

    Go Yankees and get it done Hughes. Pitch like we know you can!

  50. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 25th, 2012 at 7:58 pm

    LGY – he certainly has a good pedigree!

    http://www.hss.edu/physicians_altchek-david.asp

  51. Benny Blanco April 25th, 2012 at 7:59 pm

    Glad to see most of you idiots are writing off pineda. And I’m talking to the obnoxious bloggers who live at home with their mother eating meatloaf, adding nothing but rubbish to the game threads.

    Most of you trolls only come here during gameday. You’re a bunch of reactionary fools!!!

    If most of you “self proclaimed” baseball geniuses were so damn smart you would be working for a MLB team. Instead your blogging on LOHUD. My advice; go coach a tee ball team.

  52. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 25th, 2012 at 7:59 pm

    Quick dinner run.

    Back in a few.

  53. Locke April 25th, 2012 at 8:00 pm

    Rich in NJ April 25th, 2012 at 7:39 pm
    “One of the nice features of the injury?”

    ———

    Another nice feature – he’s cost controlled for another year. ;)

    Everybody is making this injury look like a bad thing.

  54. Tank April 25th, 2012 at 8:01 pm

    lol @ the writers tweeing Jack Z. quotes saying Pineda was healthy. As if he was going to risk punishment for saying anything else.

    He completely aced Cashman – not based on the results, but based on his allocation of his resource vs. Cashman’s allocation of his. He traded away a guy who declined in the 2nd half last year at an area of strength overall, while still retaining his overall best asset in Felix who the Yankees have lusted after publicly for years. Yankees handed over their best and only young hitter at a position that, in the near-future, will likely be a weakness for them for a guy that fills a need they are allegedly “strong” in, pitching.

    Just a poor, poor trade.

  55. Jerkface April 25th, 2012 at 8:01 pm

    Another nice feature – he’s cost controlled for another year.

    No he isn’t. Players on the DL accrue service time. Sorry to spoil your silver lining.

  56. Rich in NJ April 25th, 2012 at 8:03 pm

    “lol @ the writers tweeing Jack Z. quotes saying Pineda was healthy.”

    He was breathing, right?

  57. Locke April 25th, 2012 at 8:06 pm

    Jerkface – I was just being sarcastic, but I didn’t know players on the DL get service time.

    Poor kid. I hope he is able to recover. The Yankees will be alright without him, but this injury could cost Pineda a great career.

  58. vrsce April 25th, 2012 at 8:07 pm

    A slugging vaquero
    One Jesus Montero
    Was going to be the next Munson
    But Cashman knew better
    Jesus for Pineda
    Seems he was held up for ransom

  59. sunny615 April 25th, 2012 at 9:56 pm

    Hit. The. Ball. Harder.

  60. sunny615 April 25th, 2012 at 10:04 pm

    Just curious. But couldn’t Pettitte have thrown as many pitches as Hughes did tonight and lasted longer and probably have had better results ?? They should just skip the rest of his minor league outings and just do it here. It’s not like Hughes is giving them any length either. :)

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