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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Off day notes and links

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Apr 26, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

I feel like I spent my entire off day traveling. I hope some of you had more productive and exciting Thursdays. There really didn’t seem to be much going on with the Yankeees. This was just the day after the labrum announcement. That news still hung over pretty much everything.

Just a few notes and links from today…

• Over at ESPNNewYork, Andrew Marchand talked to Curt Schilling about Schilling’s experience coming back from labrum surgery. Schilling believes Michael Pineda can be back sooner than 12 months, though past cases suggest it’s hard to know anything for certain. “He clearly had a very weak shoulder,” Schilling said. “When you have a weak shoulder, your shoulder will start to droop and you will start to tax muscles and you get tears.”

Pineda’s former teammates weren’t happy to hear about his injury. “I’m not calling him because he’s probably a little frustrated,” Felix Hernandez said. “He’s just got to work hard and come back, because he’s a great pitcher.”

• Mike Ashmore posted last night’s Andy Pettitte press conference on YouTube. You can also find yesterday’s Brian Cashman’s press conference (this was after the conference all announcing the Pineda injury).

• The Yankees Triple-A affiliate was officially sold today, a plan that’s been in the works for a long time. The intention seems to be keeping the team in Northeastern Pennsylvania in a new stadium, and plans for that new stadium were also released today. Looks perfect for that space.

• Before this weekend’s series against the Yankees, the Tigers cut ties with Brandon Inge, who had become a significant offensive drain. Inge has said he’d like to play elsewhere. Can’t really see him as much of a fit for the Yankees.

• First President Obama, now CC Sabathia. The Yankees ace will be on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon tonight. I ate dinner in a restaurant next to Fallon once. I’m betting he’ll have a longer conversation with CC than he had with me.

Comments

comments

 

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521 Responses to “Off day notes and links”

  1. Nick in SF April 26th, 2012 at 9:34 pm

    Rangers win!

  2. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2012 at 9:36 pm

    Looks like the Yankees will face Verlander, a Smyly rookie and Scherzer.

  3. jacksquat April 26th, 2012 at 9:37 pm

    Nick in SF, green… chile, great stuff.

    YF, I thought it was a fair question. I believe in being objective and fair. Mitchell and presumably others (in the league) are pitching well, so I’m not inclined to give Betances the weather excuse, unless he has had bad luck of getting particularly bad weather when he starts. I know Mitchell is a different pitcher, but if anything wouldn’t him being more reliant on feel for success, being less of a power pitcher, make cold weather even more difficult for him?

  4. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 9:37 pm

    Nova drew the short straw.

    Freddy got a cookie.

  5. jmv April 26th, 2012 at 9:38 pm

    Hello, everyone
    Is there any official info on the classification (grade) of the injury?

  6. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 9:38 pm

    Hitting is not the Sux problem.

    Pitching is.

    :)

  7. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 9:39 pm

    And staying healthy.

    They really should eat something other than KFC all the time.

    ;)

  8. Nick in SF April 26th, 2012 at 9:39 pm

    jacksquat, I used to go to M&J’s Sanitary Tortilla Factory. It was sad to hear it had closed.

    I also used to go to Sadie’s back when it was above the bowling alley. Supposedly it’s not as good at its newer location, but I don’t know. Mmmmmm, I miss that food so much…

  9. jmv April 26th, 2012 at 9:41 pm

    “MTU says:
    April 26, 2012 at 9:39 pm
    And staying healthy.
    They really should eat
    something other than KFC
    all the time.”

    Cptn Crunch? LOL

  10. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 9:41 pm

    jmv-

    Good evening Senor.

    just that it is a tear and they will try to fix it arthroscopically.

    What sort of surgery do you perform ?

    Can you shed any light on these types of injury from your own experiences ?

  11. j9d April 26th, 2012 at 9:41 pm

    Nick in SF

    On your comment from last thread, you are probably right that it is just a difference in tone from CB. I just remember at the time of the trade wondering what CB thought and when he did weigh in, i seem to remember him feeling very good about Pineda’s upside. But I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if I am flat out having bad recall…or if it was just wishful thinking on my end.

  12. yankeefeminista April 26th, 2012 at 9:42 pm

    Jacksquat, Mitchell has pitched 200 innings in AAA, Dellin 28 IP, Manny about the same, so Mitchell is a far more experience pitcher than the other two. Further, Mitchell has no problem throwing his secondary pitches and has a stingier walk rate generally than the other two, but draw your own conclusions. Do what you want with Nardi’s info as well as mine.

  13. Jerkface April 26th, 2012 at 9:43 pm

    I just remember at the time of the trade wondering what CB thought and when he did weigh in, i seem to remember him feeling very good about Pineda’s upside. But I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if I am flat out having bad recall…or if it was just wishful thinking on my end.

    He said he wouldn’t make the trade, as I posted. He also thought Pineda had a lot of upside. Lots of people who were against the trade think Pineda is a good player, just not worth trading Montero for due to the risk. Which CB also talked about.

  14. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 9:44 pm

    Nick-

    When my wife and I left NM we had withrawl symptoms from lack of chile in the blood.

    :)

  15. yankeefeminista April 26th, 2012 at 9:44 pm

    And Schilling overruling the doctor and predicting how soon Pineda will be back… laughable.

  16. yankeefeminista April 26th, 2012 at 9:45 pm

    Chad, I had heard the new SWB stadium would likely be behind sched, and may not even be ready for the SWB Yankees at the beginning of next season. Heard anything about the time frame?

  17. JM April 26th, 2012 at 9:46 pm

    CC_Sabathia No luck with draft passes so I’m headed to MSG to watch @thenyrangers game 7! Let’s go!

    always nice to have a fall-back plan when your original plans don’t work out. :)

  18. J. Alfred Prufrock April 26th, 2012 at 9:46 pm

    jacksquat,

    You’re shrill, a smartass, and a Cashman suckup who has been trolling me ever since the trade went down. Who would care to persuade you of anything?

    Do your own homework and go watch the youngens pitch.

  19. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 9:46 pm

    The SWB Yankees should now be called the Nomads.

    ;)

  20. Nick in SF April 26th, 2012 at 9:47 pm

    Pineda still has a big upside, it’s just less likely (though still very possible) that he’ll get there and meanwhile we’re not going to see him for the entire season when I’m sure they hoped that he would pitch his way into the playoff rotation.

    So it’s just a big blow to the 2012 Yankees and even if Pineda comes all the way back, they have him under team control for one less year. So that sucks too.

    People can look for silver linings, but… it just seems like declining levels of suckiness.

  21. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 9:49 pm

    Nick-

    It’s even worse than that.

    The odds of him staying healthy the next 5 years are close to zero.

    Almost all the guys, if not all, have required repeat surgeries as follow ons to the the initial labrum
    surgery.

  22. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2012 at 9:50 pm

    After listening to the Cashman video, this sounds like a significant tear of the glenoid labrum-a SLAP tear which is superior labrum anterior posterior where the biceps tendon attaches to the shoulder. He apparently developed anterior pain in his shoulder during that workout.

    We’ll all have to wait to see what is involved until after the shoulder surgery on Tuesday.

  23. J. Alfred Prufrock April 26th, 2012 at 9:52 pm

    MTU April 26th, 2012 at 9:46 pm
    The SWB Yankees should now be called the Nomads.
    ///

    They sort of unofficially are. They are not enjoying their current plight, reportedly.

  24. Nick in SF April 26th, 2012 at 9:52 pm

    They all have to get second surgeries within 5 years?

  25. yankeefeminista April 26th, 2012 at 9:53 pm

    Assuming they even tell us the truth post-surgery Tuesday about what they actually find…

    I am too heartsick to even watch the Cashman video…

    It’ll be nice to get Andy back. Kind of a stabilizing force.

  26. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 9:55 pm

    YT-

    Don’t talk that Dr. talk with me.

    You’re just tryin’ to confuse me (which is easy at my age).

    You almost sound like a Lawyer spoutin’ legaleze.

    Your sole qaulification is a HIE.

    You ain’t foolin’ me.

    ;)

  27. blake April 26th, 2012 at 9:56 pm

    Garica shouldn’t be pitching in this series….they have a perfect opportunity to skip him and let Nova, CC, and Kuroda pitch against the Tigers…..lining Garcia up against Baltimore…..don’t really like that Scherzer/Garcia matchup the day after facing Verlander

  28. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2012 at 9:56 pm

    YF-

    I would hope the surgeon holds a press conference, rather than the Yankee brass, if you want the truth.

  29. jmv April 26th, 2012 at 9:56 pm

    Hi, MTU

    I perform abdominal and breast surgery mostly, but my wife does perform arthroscopic surgery. She tells me that, with the new techniques and devices, the shoulder surgery provides excellent outcome, but can’t give an opinion without taking a look at the MRI, of course

  30. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 9:57 pm

    Nick-

    Not all but most. The great majority.

    Various types. Scar tissue clean ups, etc.

    It’s common within the 5 yr. window.

  31. yankeefeminista April 26th, 2012 at 9:58 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock April 26th, 2012 at 9:52 pm
    MTU April 26th, 2012 at 9:46 pm
    The SWB Yankees should now be called the Nomads.
    ///

    They sort of unofficially are. They are not enjoying their current plight, reportedly.
    _____
    No one is using the Empire Yankee name that they have been re-christened. At LHV, they are still referred to as SWB. No beat writer is covering them, no info. Even their SWB office in Moosic half the time doesn’t even know what is going on with them.

  32. yankeefeminista April 26th, 2012 at 9:59 pm

    jmv, excellent outcome for a mere mortal or a major league pitcher?

  33. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 9:59 pm

    Thanks jmv.

    Wow 2 Drs.

    You guys must be really healthy.

    :)

    Blake-

    It’s Garcia against Smyly face.

    ;)

  34. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2012 at 10:00 pm

    Garcia shouldn’t be pitching in the Baltimore series either. Without a working splitter to get hitters out, his other “whatever” pitches are just plain terrible. He’s gone from a pleasant surprise last year with a terrific April ERA of 2.0 to a pitcher whose outings have gone from bad to worse.

  35. jmv April 26th, 2012 at 10:01 pm

    MTU,

    We try to stay away from KFC, LOL

  36. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 10:02 pm

    DubRunt is doing fairly well tonight.

    He’s made thru the 5th.

    That makes him like the Ace of the Boston staff, right ?

    ;)

  37. yankeefeminista April 26th, 2012 at 10:02 pm

    Supposedly, Garcia made some adjustment on his splitter; I think I heard some vague reference to the above on YES. But since the Pineda news everything is a blur. Was there an actual story on what those adjustments were?

  38. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 10:04 pm

    jmv-

    Ever notice how sometimes those who should know better about certain things don’t seem to ?

    :)

  39. blake April 26th, 2012 at 10:05 pm

    Trader,

    I agree with that….but he certainly shouldn’t be pitching in this series IMO….I actually would probably keep him in the rotation over Hughes at this point….I think he’s got a better chance to turn it around and think Hughes should be sent down to try and find himself.

  40. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2012 at 10:05 pm

    MTU-

    Maybe Altchek and Ahmad will inject platelet rich plasma into the shoulder at the end of the case.
    Worked along with stem cell injections for Colon.

  41. JM April 26th, 2012 at 10:05 pm

    Mo as “pitchman” for new Yankees fragrance:

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....um=twitter

  42. J. Alfred Prufrock April 26th, 2012 at 10:05 pm

    No one is using the Empire Yankee name that they have been re-christened. At LHV, they are still referred to as SWB. No beat writer is covering them, no info. Even their SWB office in Moosic half the time doesn’t even know what is going on with them.
    ///

    It’s the perfect metaphor for the way the organization regards them: they don’t exist.

  43. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 10:06 pm

    YF-

    I would have thought the Pineda news would have affected your heart more than your eyes ?

    I know. I shouldn’t joke about it but it beats cryin’.

    That would be the eyes again though, wouldn’t it ?

    Huh, I’m confused.

    :)

  44. jmv April 26th, 2012 at 10:07 pm

    Hi, yankefem (a.k.a. As “encendida y en fuego”)

    She performs surgery for regular people, but also explained that this is a very common injury in baseball because of over-extension of the shoulder, so a lot of the studies and reports are on athletes.

  45. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2012 at 10:08 pm

    If you sent down Hughes now who steps in-Phelps? Mitchell? There’s another 2-3 weeks before Pettitte returns to pitch his 1st MLB game.

    Any word on Roy Oswalt?

  46. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 10:08 pm

    YT-

    Not a bad idea.

    Why don’t you call them ?

    Did you sneak into another HIE last night you sly dog ?

    :)

  47. jmv April 26th, 2012 at 10:10 pm

    “MTU says:
    April 26, 2012 at 10:04
    pm
    jmv-
    Ever notice how
    sometimes those who
    should know better about
    certain things don’t seem
    to ?”
    —————————-
    We use to say: “casa de herrero, cuchillo de palo”, it means: In the house of the smith, the knives are made of wood, LOL

  48. blake April 26th, 2012 at 10:12 pm

    “If you sent down Hughes now who steps in-Phelps? Mitchell? There’s another 2-3 weeks before Pettitte returns to pitch his 1st MLB game.”

    Phelps to the rotation, Hughes to minors…..call up Mitchell for the pen.

  49. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2012 at 10:13 pm

    MTU-

    I’d call them, but not being one of Pineda’s immediate family they won’t tell me much. Violation of HIPAA.

    I study a lot!

  50. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 10:14 pm

    JMV-

    Sounds like you’re talkin’ about Freddy Garcia’s house after the injury.

    But I know what ya’ mean. Good phrase. I like it.

    :)

  51. yankeefeminista April 26th, 2012 at 10:14 pm

    blake, yeah, that is exactly what they would likely do if they were smart.

    I think we get Pettitte back in closer to two weeks than 3. May 10th was projected return date.

  52. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 10:15 pm

    Blake-

    Stop stealin’ my rotation ideas.

    :)

  53. yankeefeminista April 26th, 2012 at 10:15 pm

    *that is assuming all goes well with Andy

  54. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 10:16 pm

    YT-

    Tu es un bueno etudiante.

    Seguro.

    ;)

  55. yankeefeminista April 26th, 2012 at 10:16 pm

    jmv, I’ll keep my fingers crossed then.

  56. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 10:17 pm

    jmv-

    We have a phrase out West for the Yankee pitching development program.

    “They don’t have enough brains to pour piss out of a boot with.”

    :)

  57. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2012 at 10:17 pm

    MTU-

    To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is research.

    I do the research.

  58. jacksquat April 26th, 2012 at 10:19 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock April 26th, 2012 at 9:46 pm
    jacksquat,

    You’re shrill, a smartass, and a Cashman suckup who has been trolling me ever since the trade went down. Who would care to persuade you of anything?

    Do your own homework and go watch the youngens pitch.

    So I don’t agree with your rather extreme and perpetual views of the Montero trade (I even said I was against the trade myself, or did you miss that the 3 or 4 times I’ve posted it recently?), so I am a troll?

    Whatever, I asked a fair question and I got personal insults. Which btw is pretty typical behaviour when someone doesn’t have a good answer. At least YF, while seeming maybe a little annoyed, gave a civil answer.

  59. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 10:19 pm

    YT-

    You are very ecclectic.

    No doubt about that.

    ;)

  60. Rich in NJ April 26th, 2012 at 10:19 pm

    If Schilling is to be believed, why wasn’t Pineda’s weak shoulder picked up in the physical?

  61. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2012 at 10:20 pm

    I like this rotation better until Pettitte is back:

    Sabathia
    Kuroda
    Nova
    Phelps
    Mitchell

  62. Rich in NJ April 26th, 2012 at 10:22 pm

    I like that too, and if Garcia is bad again tomorrow, I’m not sure how they can justify another start.

  63. jmv April 26th, 2012 at 10:22 pm

    “yankeefeminista says:
    April 26, 2012 at 10:16
    pm
    jmv, I’ll keep my fingers
    crossed then.”
    ————————-
    Me too!!!

  64. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 10:22 pm

    Rich-

    Because they were focusing in on the other one ?

    Sorry, bad joke.

    :(

  65. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2012 at 10:23 pm

    Rich-

    Which physical-the one before the trade was completed?

  66. Rich in NJ April 26th, 2012 at 10:23 pm

    Yes, YT.

    MTU

    So it would seem. :D

  67. blake April 26th, 2012 at 10:25 pm

    Trader,

    Yea I’d be fine with that as well….but I don’t know if they’ll take either of Hughes and Garcia out of the rotation let alone both of them…..I think Garcia could figure it out…..he’s a wily veteran and he’s already figured out how to pitch with various levels of stuff…..I think continuing to throw Hughes out there and expecting different results at this point is kinda dumb and will likely just lead to killing his confidence even more….

  68. jmv April 26th, 2012 at 10:25 pm

    “They don’t have enough
    brains to pour piss out of
    a boot with.”
    ———————-
    LOL
    Yankees’ pitchers development program should work like a driver’s licence. Once you lose certain points, you are suspended

  69. jacksquat April 26th, 2012 at 10:26 pm

    I think when Schilling said “weak” he meant physical conditioning, not a defect that would show in the MRI, but I could be wrong. That’s the impression I got with the context.

  70. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 10:26 pm

    Blake-

    The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

    ;)

  71. tomingeorgia April 26th, 2012 at 10:27 pm

    Really late for me, Night, friends.

  72. yankeefeminista April 26th, 2012 at 10:27 pm

    MTU, Ever heard of synaesthesia? As for crying: “there’s no crying in baseball…”

    Mitchell and Phelps both in the rotation. After the Joba, Hughes, IPK fiasco, the Yankees would do that when hell freezes over.

  73. blake April 26th, 2012 at 10:28 pm

    MTU,

    yea….he just doesn’t have the pitches right now to get through big league lineups multiple times….the command is an issue….but I think the level of command he’d need to be consistently successful with his current arsenal is unrealistic.

  74. J. Alfred Prufrock April 26th, 2012 at 10:29 pm

    Whatever, I asked a fair question and I got personal insults. Which btw is pretty typical behaviour when someone doesn’t have a good answer. At least YF, while seeming maybe a little annoyed, gave a civil answer.
    ///

    Civil? You’ve behaved like a smartass punk, from that stupid Cleo thing to your hissy fits at the mere mention of the word “Montero.” Go spit your bile in another direction.

  75. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 10:29 pm

    jmv-

    If that was the case the Yankees would never have another one.

    The list of moving violations is a long and infamous one.

    Time to lock some of them up.

    ;)

  76. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2012 at 10:30 pm

    Blake-

    I agree with your reasons for sending Hughes to the minors, if they want to continue to take time to develop him as a starter, where he’d eventually be more valuable to them or as trade bait. Of course they’ve now been waiting almost 3 years for that. if they want instant gratification, he goes to the pen where he can forget about honing many of the secondary pitches and should be successful as a one inning reliever.

  77. jmv April 26th, 2012 at 10:30 pm


    Rich in NJ says:
    April 26, 2012 at 10:19
    pm
    If Schilling is to be
    believed, why wasn’t
    Pineda’s weak shoulder
    picked up in the physical?”
    —————————–
    Hi, Rich
    Sorry to cut in, but my wife (arthroscopic surgeon) explained to me that this kind of injury is probably caused by an inadecuate movement technique, so shoulder strengh is not always related

  78. Rich in NJ April 26th, 2012 at 10:31 pm

    “I think when Schilling said “weak” he meant physical conditioning, not a defect that would show in the MRI, but I could be wrong. That’s the impression I got with the context.”

    Yes, I don’t mean an MRI. That’s what a clinical examination could potentially reveal, or perhaps by studying film of him pitching, at least by someone like Mike Marshall, who understands kinesiology, but the Yankees should have someone like that in some capacity as well.

  79. Nick in SF April 26th, 2012 at 10:31 pm

    Shocking and disappointing that LGY tried to talk me out of taking the Knicks -5 tonight.

    Thankfully, I didn’t listen. Rangers/Knicks parlay FTW! MSG power!

    Bring on the Heat!

  80. Rich in NJ April 26th, 2012 at 10:33 pm

    jmv

    Thanks. Can you flesh out “nadecuate movement technique”?

  81. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 10:33 pm

    YF-

    I’ve not only heard of it I’ve experienced it !

    I’ve been blending senses for years, and ocassionally bending them too.

    You’re absolutely right about the Yankees perspective IMO.

    I don’t see them putting 2 rookies in the Ro together unless it it’s a pure emergency.

  82. Rich in NJ April 26th, 2012 at 10:33 pm

    with an “i”

  83. blake April 26th, 2012 at 10:34 pm

    “he goes to the pen where he can forget about honing many of the secondary pitches and should be successful as a one inning reliever.”

    ultimately I think this is what they’ll do….I don’t like it really but honestly I thing Hughes the reliever is probably better than Soriano….so he’d help out there but it’s just not an ideal thing.

  84. yankeefeminista April 26th, 2012 at 10:34 pm

    If the Yankees send Hughes to the pen vs. to the minors, they are lost.

  85. jmv April 26th, 2012 at 10:34 pm

    Nite, Tom

  86. blake April 26th, 2012 at 10:36 pm

    Apparently the Yanks said that Pineda passed their strength tests in ST easily….now I have no idea what those tests entailed…..if they were specific to shoulder and arm strength or if they had to arm wrestle and beat Girardi to pass.

  87. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 10:36 pm

    Blake-

    The Yankees don’t do ideal they do real.

    ;)

  88. blake April 26th, 2012 at 10:36 pm

    “If the Yankees send Hughes to the pen vs. to the minors, they are lost.”

    get ready for it….it’s probably going to happen.

  89. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2012 at 10:37 pm

    Goodnight Tom.

    Can you believe that the Angels are already 9 games out of first?

    Maybe they’ll want Garcia for Mark Trumbo or Mike Trout? :)

  90. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 10:37 pm

    YF-

    I’m afraid they might be lost then.

    :(

  91. jacksquat April 26th, 2012 at 10:38 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock April 26th, 2012 at 10:29 pm
    Whatever, I asked a fair question and I got personal insults. Which btw is pretty typical behaviour when someone doesn’t have a good answer. At least YF, while seeming maybe a little annoyed, gave a civil answer.
    ///

    Civil? You’ve behaved like a smartass punk, from that stupid Cleo thing to your hissy fits at the mere mention of the word “Montero.” Go spit your bile in another direction.

    I think you are out of control and have confused me with another person. I wasn’t the one that posted the “Cleo thing”. Go back and check.

    And logically questioning why Betances would get excuses because of cold weather while other pitchers are dealing with it is not trolling, and not bile. I’m sorry I can’t be your “vato” and agree with everything you say.

  92. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 10:38 pm

    YT-

    I think they need Albert Pujols for pete’s sake.

    ;)

  93. Rich in NJ April 26th, 2012 at 10:38 pm

    “get ready for it….it’s probably going to happen.”

    Yup, and people wonder why some of us don’t like the way they handle their players.

  94. jmv April 26th, 2012 at 10:39 pm

    Rich:

    A defective technique. If you perform an exercise, an inadecuate movement (in this case an over-extension) could cause an injury

  95. Rich in NJ April 26th, 2012 at 10:42 pm

    jmv

    So it’s a kinesiological deficiency?

    That sound mechanical, which again, seems to be something an expert should be able to spot.

  96. J. Alfred Prufrock April 26th, 2012 at 10:42 pm

    Jacsquat – I know this is going to come as a shock to you. Your “agreement” is not what I seek. Now, go troll someone who’s interested in you.

  97. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 10:43 pm

    jmv-

    With all the hiking I do I do not suffer from inadequate movement I don’t think ?

    Maybe I am doing it incorrectly though.

    That’s always possible.

    I do wear shoes so that can’t be it.

    :)

  98. yankeefeminista April 26th, 2012 at 10:44 pm

    Jacksquat, Banuelos wasn’t dealing with the cold either. The two youngest and newest to AAA were both having trouble with the cold. Especially considering they pitched in Trenton last year where it is no where near as cold as upstate and Pa. You are underestimating the bump up a level and particular adjustments these kids are trying to make in adverse conditions. I am not sure why are you comparing Betances (and Banuelos should be in that conversation as well) to seasoned and older AAA pitchers.

  99. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2012 at 10:44 pm

    Those strength tests were done before the trade was finalized and probably again at the start of ST. I’m not saying that sombody or some bodies were not to blame in the Yankee organization, but how many times can you ask a pitcher after each outing and in between-”how does your arm feel?”

    If Pineda was telling Rotschild and Girardi that he felt fine, while hiding how he really felt for fear of dissapointing them, then the blame has to partially rest with the player.

  100. blake April 26th, 2012 at 10:44 pm

    night guys….I’m going to dream of healthy and effective pitchers (I hope)

  101. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 10:46 pm

    Blake-

    Verlander is very effective.

    Don’t dream about him.

    Dream about Nova being effective.

    :)

  102. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2012 at 10:48 pm

    Blake-

    Good night. Do you hope for healthy and effective pitchers, or are you hoping you dream tonight? :)

  103. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 10:52 pm

    I dream therefore I am.

    No. Not Descartes.

    MTU

    See ya’ in my dreams.

    :)

  104. jmv April 26th, 2012 at 10:52 pm

    Rich,

    Yes, it could be mechanical (underline could). And Yes, should be noticed. But it could be a once-in a lifetime issue, too

    MTU,

    Are you sure that you move enough in your hiking to be injured? LOL
    (Just kiddin’, the pics do speak for you…)

  105. Jerkface April 26th, 2012 at 10:52 pm

    Re: ‘strength tests’. Pineda suffered severe reduction in velocity in his final start of the 2011 season, BUT he still maxed out at 93. You know… where he maxed out in spring.

    So I’m sure he had enough strength in his arm to be in the 90s, but not the kind of arm whip he was generating to sit 95.

    Plus we don’t know if he has a baseline or anything, so they could be like “Yup this guy is strong enough to throw 90, no problem!” Perhaps their strength check only gives a good result if their labrum is torn *at that moment*, rather than something that is merely beginning to deteriorate.

  106. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 10:55 pm

    jmv-

    I ran across Bambi and one her friends yesterday.

    Wanna see ?

    https://picasaweb.google.com/109721757058432487394/TaylorCreekDeer?authkey=Gv1sRgCOCCl_fI38agogE#

    Enjoy.

    C ya’ tomorrow.

    :)

  107. Rich in NJ April 26th, 2012 at 10:55 pm

    “If Pineda was telling Rotschild and Girardi that he felt fine, while hiding how he really felt for fear of dissapointing them, then the blame has to partially rest with the player.”

    Sure, and we don’t know what went on behind closed doors, but all we heard is that they weren’t concerned about his velo (Girardi said it was only a concern because of the Hughes experience from last season), but after the first two starts, it certainly seemed to many of us that something wasn’t right.

  108. Nick in SF April 26th, 2012 at 10:56 pm

    He was strong enough to lift a fork a few thousand times before spring training. #fatfarmbound

  109. jmv April 26th, 2012 at 11:01 pm

    MTU,

    Couldn’t open it. But good night!

  110. jacksquat April 26th, 2012 at 11:05 pm

    yankeefeminista April 26th, 2012 at 10:44 pm
    Jacksquat, Banuelos wasn’t dealing with the cold either. The two youngest and newest to AAA were both having trouble with the cold. Especially considering they pitched in Trenton last year where it is no where near as cold as upstate and Pa. You are underestimating the bump up a level and particular adjustments these kids are trying to make in adverse conditions. I am not sure why are you comparing Betances (and Banuelos should be in that conversation as well) to seasoned and older AAA pitchers.

    If it’s because of moving up a level, that is fine. That’s a different reason though, and not the weather subject. If it’s the first time for him pitching in cold weather, then that could be a legitimate reason and what I was looking for.

  111. Betsy April 26th, 2012 at 11:05 pm

    I don’t blame the Yankees for sending Phil to the pen – it’s where he’s best suited. They aren’t going to send him down to the low minors to try and remake what is probably a backend starter at best, and not when they very likely have no desire to make any sort of further committment to them. Just how long is a team supposed to continue trying to develop someone who hasn’t shown any progress at all?

  112. Betsy April 26th, 2012 at 11:06 pm

    I seriously doubt he’d replace Soriano, though – more likely Phelps

  113. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2012 at 11:06 pm

    Nick-

    Very good!!

    Good night all.

  114. GreenBeret7 April 26th, 2012 at 11:11 pm

    yankeefeminista April 26th, 2012 at 9:45 pm
    Chad, I had heard the new SWB stadium would likely be behind sched, and may not even be ready for the SWB Yankees at the beginning of next season. Heard anything about the time frame?

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    They haven’t even started pulling the stadium apart, much less do any renovations. They had 3 weeks of decent weather and did nothing. The belief is that they won’t have it ready be next season, either….at least to start. That was on the broadcast a day or two ago. No reason given.

  115. Against All Odds April 26th, 2012 at 11:11 pm

    Just how long is a team supposed to continue trying to develop someone who hasn’t shown any progress at all?

    ———————————-

    According to poster igotid88 2 more yrs uninterrupted

  116. Betsy April 26th, 2012 at 11:14 pm

    Odds, and that’s another thing – it’s not the Yankees’ fault that Phil couldn’t stay healthy. I understand condemning the team for killing Pineda, but Phil’s problems are all on him.

  117. LGY April 26th, 2012 at 11:15 pm

    Nick in SF April 26th, 2012 at 10:31 pm
    Shocking and disappointing that LGY tried to talk me out of taking the Knicks -5 tonight.

    Thankfully, I didn’t listen. Rangers/Knicks parlay FTW! MSG power!

    Bring on the Heat!

    ——-

    :D

    You should thank me. Long suffering pessimistic Knicks fans like myself probably kept that line at only -5!

  118. jmv April 26th, 2012 at 11:18 pm

    Morpheus calling. Nite all!

  119. Against All Odds April 26th, 2012 at 11:29 pm

    Betsy April 26th, 2012 at 11:14 pm

    Odds, and that’s another thing – it’s not the Yankees’ fault that Phil couldn’t stay healthy. I understand condemning the team for killing Pineda, but Phil’s problems are all on him.

    ————————–

    I’ve had the same discussions on here with Rich and he brought up some good points but you’re right it’s not like he hasn’t been given a chance to start. As a matter of fact he’s been given many chances but he hasn’t been able to stay healthy. Some guys can’t hold up under that kind of stress/load. Isn’t one of the reasons Joba was made a reliever is because they believed he couldn’t take the ball every 5 days.

    I will say this they might have rushed him back in 07. I was killing them for the BP stint months ago. I think you and I were debating it one time but a couple of days ago I remembered Hughes wanted to stay with the team and pitch in the pen instead of being sent down to work as a starter.

  120. jacksquat April 26th, 2012 at 11:30 pm

    The Yankees may take a pragmatic approach with Hughes and see they have only one more year of control and decide he is likely to be more useful to them as a reliever, rather than take an unknown amount of time in the minors trying to improve. From what JF has posted they would have to keep him in the minors the entire rest of this season to get two more years from him.

    I would not be surprised at all if they sent him back to the bullpen, but I think there’s a good chance he gets at least a few more starts, and Garcia may be the one replaced by Pettitte, assuming that is going to happen in the near future.

    And there’s a better chance of one of us winning the lottery than both Phelps and Mitchell both being put in the rotation (unless there are extreme circumstances).

  121. Betsy April 26th, 2012 at 11:33 pm

    They definitely rushed him in 2007 – per Cashman, he wasn’t supposed to come up until late that year. However, that was a long time ago. There’s no excuse for not being able to maintain even a decent curve – or for being obsessed with an awful pitch for him, the cutter.

    I don’t think it’s true that the Yankes gave him a choice in 2009, but if they did, that was asinine; teams should not be asking their players what they prefer to happen to them. If they felt Phil needed to continue to start, they should just have sent him down. Most players are going to choose the big leagues over the minors………

  122. Jerkface April 26th, 2012 at 11:34 pm

    They definitely rushed him in 2007 – per Cashman, he wasn’t supposed to come up until late that year

    Coming up before the Yankees had planned does not mean he was rushed as a prospect.

  123. Betsy April 26th, 2012 at 11:35 pm

    I definitely think Phil is going to the pen………so be it.

  124. Betsy April 26th, 2012 at 11:37 pm

    Either way, Jerkface, I think it’s silly to blame the Yankees (and there are those who do) for how he’s turned out. Then again, I always place “blame” or “credit” on how someone’s career turns out on the player himself…..

  125. jacksquat April 26th, 2012 at 11:40 pm

    If Hughes goes to pen, and he is replace by Pettitte, not Phelps, does he take Phelps’ job? Or is he a one inning guy again and takes Wades place (although he is pitching well). Or does Joe give up his second lefty?

  126. Nick in SF April 26th, 2012 at 11:42 pm

    Hey, Joba was at the Garden too. Happy times.

  127. Against All Odds April 26th, 2012 at 11:43 pm

    Betsy April 26th, 2012 at 11:33 pm

    They definitely rushed him in 2007 – per Cashman, he wasn’t supposed to come up until late that year. However, that was a long time ago. There’s no excuse for not being able to maintain even a decent curve – or for being obsessed with an awful pitch for him, the cutter.

    I don’t think it’s true that the Yankes gave him a choice in 2009, but if they did, that was asinine; teams should not be asking their players what they prefer to happen to them. If they felt Phil needed to continue to start, they should just have sent him down. Most players are going to choose the big leagues over the minors………

    ——————————-

    Very well said it was a long time ago and he should be future along than he is now.

    True the minors are the pits that’s why when guys make it they never want to go back lol.

  128. theREALkevin April 26th, 2012 at 11:45 pm

    I think it’s fair to sometimes put the blame or credit on the player himself. But when there’s a trend of futility with developing pitchers, having them pan out, not always get injured…. I think at some point you have to look at MLB coaching, mgmt, minor league coaching, etc. Banuelos & Betances will be very telling for the Yanks. If they pan out ppl will quiet down. If they bust also, it will be pretty damning considering many recent young Yankee pitchers who have busted or gotten hurt.

  129. Against All Odds April 26th, 2012 at 11:48 pm

    jacksquat April 26th, 2012 at 11:40 pm

    If Hughes goes to pen, and he is replace by Pettitte, not Phelps, does he take Phelps’ job? Or is he a one inning guy again and takes Wades place (although he is pitching well). Or does Joe give up his second lefty?

    ———————-

    Hmmm good question maybe he takes Phelps’ job and they send Phelps down…stretch him out in case they are ready to pull the plug on Freddy. I guess it boils down to who they pull first Hughes or Freddy.

  130. Against All Odds April 26th, 2012 at 11:50 pm

    Plus it depends on how the other relievers are performing at the time. Is Sori still a little shaky at that time or is he rock sold.

  131. Betsy April 26th, 2012 at 11:53 pm

    I believe it always comes down to the player……. no matter about the organization. Phil is just not that good – it’s not the Yankees fault that he can’t throw anything other than a FB

  132. theREALkevin April 26th, 2012 at 11:56 pm

    Betsy, you also can’t forget NY is a pressure cooker & the AL East is very tough. As I’ve said before, I think Phil could be successful in the NL a la Ian Kennedy.

  133. Rich in NJ April 27th, 2012 at 12:10 am

    “The Yankees may take a pragmatic approach with Hughes and see they have only one more year of control and decide he is likely to be more useful to them as a reliever,”

    It isn’t even May yet though, so it’s really two years.

    I don’t see how it’s pragmatic to put a guy in the pen, who they have invested this much time in, when there is no real role for him there.

  134. Jerkface April 27th, 2012 at 12:17 am

    The pragmatic approach would be to send him down. A short sighted approach would be to confine him to the bullpen. The reason being they could have him for 2 more years if they send him down, would have the potential to actually get a good starter out of it, and if it doesn’t work out they can still put him in the bullpen but when there is an actual need for it.

  135. Bo knows April 27th, 2012 at 12:24 am

    Could anyone tell me if Hughes CB was always that low as in low 70s? I don’t trust my own memory anymore. I know he was getting swings and misses with it but don’t remember the speed

  136. jacksquat April 27th, 2012 at 12:33 am

    Jerkface April 27th, 2012 at 12:17 am
    The pragmatic approach would be to send him down. A short sighted approach would be to confine him to the bullpen. The reason being they could have him for 2 more years if they send him down, would have the potential to actually get a good starter out of it, and if it doesn’t work out they can still put him in the bullpen but when there is an actual need for it.

    Don’t they have to keep him in the minors for the entire rest of this year to get two more years? I won’t mind if they do that, just don’t know if that’s the way they will see it.

  137. Jerkface April 27th, 2012 at 12:39 am

    Don’t they have to keep him in the minors for the entire rest of this year to get two more years? I won’t mind if they do that, just don’t know if that’s the way they will see it.

    Yes, they have to end this year with Hughes at 4.8-9 years of service. If he ends with 5 or more than he will hit 6 next year and become a free agent. Thats the thing with the final option. You have to use it, and you lose it. After this year he can’t be sent down anyways, so might as well use it.

  138. Wang IS Taiwan April 27th, 2012 at 12:52 am

    Wonder if any of the Mariners blame the Yankees for what happened to their ex-teammate’s shoulder? Definitely would love to hear what Pineda himself thinks about his new organization.

  139. Nick in SF April 27th, 2012 at 12:59 am

    Are you saying we might have to contend with an angry Miguel Olivo???

  140. Rich in NJ April 27th, 2012 at 1:19 am

    “Wonder if any of the Mariners blame the Yankees for what happened to their ex-teammate’s shoulder?”

    That would really be an example of adding insult to injury…

  141. lounge lizard April 27th, 2012 at 1:37 am

    What this fanbase needs in this time of stress is some pie. Rays walked off today; Yanks have not done so since June of last year.

    2011 was also first year since 1994 in which Yanks did not have at least one walkoff home run (postseason included). Eight walkoff homers in 2009, two in 2010, zero in 2011.

    Career walkoff home runs of somewhat randomly selected Yankees (as Yankees, reg and postseason):

    Mick 12
    Babe 11
    Yogi 7
    Nettles 7
    Alex 6
    Bernie 5
    Reggie 4
    DiMag 3
    Gehrig 2
    Current Dodger Mgr 2
    Jete 2
    Jorge 2
    Swish 2
    Melky 2
    Tino 1
    Robby 1
    Tex 1
    #21 0

    Mantle hit four walkoff home runs in 1966-67 alone, when he had no knees. Obligatory Animal House quote: Let’s Do It!

  142. lounge lizard April 27th, 2012 at 1:38 am

    http://www.yankeenumbers.com/WalkOffHomeRuns.asp

    Link, FTI

  143. Nick in SF April 27th, 2012 at 1:41 am

    I hope AJ didn’t booby trap the pie pans. :evil:

  144. lounge lizard April 27th, 2012 at 1:56 am

    I hope Yanks walk off before Pirates do.

  145. UnKnown April 27th, 2012 at 2:42 am

    Only thing I can think of towards why Girardi wants to throw Garcia on Saturday instead of skipping him and throwing him Monday against the O’s is because Hughes throws on Tuesday against the O’s and he doesn’t want those two black holes pitching back to back.

    They would have to find a way to get Proctor back in the pen to suck up some relief innings if they were to throw those two guys back to back.

  146. PittsburghYankeeFan April 27th, 2012 at 5:11 am

    Very interesting discussion. Let’s say for the sake of argument that I’m and MD (not of the ortho type, although I deal with them almost daily). I certainly don’t play one on TV.

    To start, here’s a link to a kid’s sports medicine masters thesis on the very topic of SLAP tears in ML pitchers. Not a bad summary.

    http://honors.usf.edu/document.....041248.pdf

    Bottom line is that Mr. Pineda likely has a type II SLAP tear. Pressure from the biceps tendon (perhaps from a violent delivery) pulls the labrum off of the humeral head. In the past, the surgeons simply debrided the humeral head of the frayed labrum and tried to allow to labrum to reseal itself. In professional athletes it was found that this didn’t really work, and that’s why you hear about reoperations in a lot of ML pitchers, as well as poor outcomes.

    Nowadays, the surgeon checks out the joint with an arthroscope, and if there is no other instability, the labrum is reattached to the humeral head with 1-4 anchor sutures. Rehab usually begins in 4-6 weeks.

    Curt Schilling had a somewhat controversial reoperation in 2008 where his biceps tendon was cut and directly reattached to the humeral head. There is currently a lot of controversy over whether this is appropriate for ML pitchers (it may work for college pitchers and for non ML athletes).

    My guess reading between all of the lines is that Micheal Pineda was brought up to the bigs a bit early by Seattle before his delivery could be completely fine tuned (as Randy L and others have mentioned). Violent delivery + perhaps not the greatest conditioning (note this spring training) + lots of innings prior to the ASB = some shoulder weakness and perhaps a bit of velocity loss (despite what Cashman et al are saying).

    SLAP tears are pretty hard to diagnose, and players often play quite a bit before a diagnosis is made definitively. Non-dye study MRIs and strength testing often do not pick them up.

    However, when a guy who usually throws 96-98 starts ST throwing 90-92, something is up, and was up, prior to him showing up. There is no way to spin this differently. Did Pineda even pick up a ball in the offseason? I remember talk that he didn’t. If your shoulder was hurting when you threw too hard, you wouldn’t pick up a ball either.

    The real question (I hate to be corny) is what did Seattle know, and when did they know it? Sorry, Compass Rosy–something fishy is going on here. Why get rid of your #2 so quickly, and offer him to both the Jays and the Yankees?

    Selig nullified a trade in 2003 due to an undiagnosed labrum tear (it’s in the Slate article). Does he have the balls to do it again, especially when it would favor the Yankees?

    However, I think this was picked up relatively soon, before a lot of damage could be done. Let’s hope that modern medicine, and modern rehab, can help Pineda and the Yankees here. Odds are that it can.

    Nonetheless, if I were the Steinbrenners I’d sit down with the Seattle ownership and with Bud and have a serious talk about this one, regardless of what the public spin is.

  147. PacoDooley April 27th, 2012 at 6:18 am

    PittsburghYankeeFan April 27th, 2012 at 5:11 am

    Selig nullified a trade in 2003 due to an undiagnosed labrum tear (it’s in the Slate article). Does he have the balls to do it again, especially when it would favor the Yankees?

    ———————————————

    No way does this happen – 0% chance. Not only has Montero now played in Seattle for several weeks, making it hard politically to send him back, but there is absolutely no evidence available that he was injured previously, and Cashman is defending that position. Now if a doctor came forward or someone in the Seattle organization and said that he was injured or they suspected that he was injured, then perhaps it could happen. But the likelihood of that is infinitesimal.

  148. PittsburghYankeeFan April 27th, 2012 at 6:24 am

    PS

    Meant glenoid capsule and not humeral head above…too late at night…

  149. PittsburghYankeeFan April 27th, 2012 at 6:26 am

    Paco

    Probably right, but I’d still sit all of the owners in a room with Bud. If there is any suspicion between clubs that this was not 100% kosher, only bad things can happen.

  150. PittsburghYankeeFan April 27th, 2012 at 6:40 am

    One last thing, however:

    Pineda showed up in ST throwing 90-92 and 6 weeks later has a torn labrum. Is anyone (besides the Yankees) saying this magically happened last week? When decreased velocity is symptom #1 of a SLAP tear in an ML pitcher?

    So when did it happen? During the winter? Or before?

    He’s not throwing that hard, if at all, during the winter.

    So that leaves before.

    Nobody knew anything?

  151. Yankee Trader April 27th, 2012 at 7:34 am

    Pittsburgh-

    Thanks. I posted a short article last night on the suspicion this was a SLAP tear. Your thoughts about the entire matter are spot on. He apparently was examined thoroughly by tests MRI and blood work, and by strength test by the physicians and had no indiction of shoulder weakness before the trade was finalized.

    I’ll pose another question based on Pineda’s offseason physical activity-”He was strong enough to lift a fork a few thousand times before spring training” per Nick of SF.

    Did Pineda hide an offseason injury?

  152. Yankee Trader April 27th, 2012 at 7:37 am

    Pittsburgh-

    I noticed the article you posted was from USF. Are you there?

  153. Yankee Trader April 27th, 2012 at 7:48 am

    The Seattle Mariners, perhaps more than any other team, have suffered on account of the labrum. When Seattle drafted 6-foot-10 Ryan Anderson in 1997, it seemed preordained that the titanic lefty would be the next Randy Johnson. Then Anderson had labrum surgery. He missed the entire 2002 season—and every season since. The Mariners’ 25-year-old right-hander Gil Meche has already missed two full years on account of labrum-related ailments. Meche returned to the majors in 2003, but faded badly in the second half.

    From the Slate article that I believe Pittsbugh is referring to:

    http://www.slate.com/articles/.....d_him.html

    Makes you wonder, with all the labral tears Seattle pitchers had in the past, whether the Mariners might have felt Pineda was a risk for one going forward.

  154. MTU April 27th, 2012 at 7:50 am

    You guys must really be into whodunits ?

    Sherlock Holmes anyone ?

    :)

  155. Yankee Trader April 27th, 2012 at 7:53 am

    More from that article in case anybody, but me, is now awake!! :)

    Still, nothing taxes a shoulder like throwing a baseball. Even if a pitcher has an ideal throwing motion, the labrum suffers. Unlike the rotator cuff, a series of four small muscles that holds the shoulder in place and decelerates the arm, the collagen-based labrum can’t be strengthened. As of yet, there aren’t any reliable techniques to prevent labrum injuries. Anecdotal evidence suggests that the best way to avoid injury is to keep your pitcher from throwing while fatigued. But fatigue is exceptionally difficult for a pitching coach or manager to measure—and one wrong guess can lead to the operating table.

    In this case the one wrong guess is leading to surgery for Pineda.

  156. MTU April 27th, 2012 at 7:56 am

    It’s called “caveat emptor” guys.

    That’s why the DD should have been thorough and complete in the first place.

    Perhaps they should have requested the full-monty MRI ?

    If they did and were denied maybe that should have sent up a red flag ?

    Anyway, I don’t see a snowball’s chance in hell of any kind of a reversal.

  157. Yankee Trader April 27th, 2012 at 7:57 am

    MTU-

    Good morning. Here’s an early morning article about Cashman:

    I’m proud of my accomplishments,” Cashman said. “And I’m accountable for my failures.”

    This should not be mistaken for spin. It was more a mild form of self-flagellation, unusual in a town where accountability (among athletes, managers and coaches) is harder to find than a full house at Citi Field. This is one reason many in the baseball media have Cashman’s back. They are protective of him. Anyone get the feeling they feel a little sorry for him, too?

    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....z1tF0h9Q2K

  158. rl1856 April 27th, 2012 at 7:58 am

    Several reports that Seatle told Pineda not to do anything in the offseason. Pineda took that advice literally….. Bigger issue is if Seatle suspected problems and tried to trade him. Haven’t we had problems with Seatle before ?

    For once I think Schilling is correct. Pineda has a chance to come back stronger and better. The key is how seriously he pursues his rehab. I have not doubt that the team will align him with the best doctors and sports conditioning people, but ultimately it is up to Pineda to follow through. 10 months from now is Spring Training 2013 and I think that is the target for Pineda. If all goes well and he aggressively pursues his rehab, he could be with the team on opening day. That should be everyone’s goal.

    Both Garcia and Hughes have until Pettite comes back before a decision or move is made. Right now, I think Garcia will be replaced by Pettite and then shopped aggressively by the team. If you put Hughes in the pen, what do you do with him when Joba returns ? If the goal is for Hughes to be a starter, use his option and send him to AAA. If DJ Mitchell continues to pitch like he has (since last season), then he has earned a chance to pitch in the ML. Let him swap with Phelps and then let him take Hughes’s spot when the later is sent back to AAA.

  159. Yankee Trader April 27th, 2012 at 8:03 am

    MTU-

    A dye contrast MRI can cause an infection. Anytime you insert a needle into a joint space.

    Was Pineda hiding it, or maybe just concerned that something was wrong with his pitching arm, and afraid to tell Rotschild/Girardi/Cashman. I’m sure he was asked almost every day how he felt.

  160. MTU April 27th, 2012 at 8:08 am

    YT-

    Sounds like the treatment a favored Politician gets.

    Me. I think this should be made totally transparent and should be aired out.

    It won’t be of course.

    IMO it’s time for the Yankees to take some stock of their policies and proceedures in regards to Pitching development, and if anyone or anything is found wanting it should be fixed.

    ;)

  161. Yankee Trader April 27th, 2012 at 8:11 am

    I’m not sure that Schilling had the same approach to the repair as Pineda might have.

    If Pineda makes it back in 12 months are less, it’s unlikely he’ll be back at the major league level anyway, because he won’t be pushing 98 anymore on the radar gun, and will have to rely on secondary pitches, of which the slider is currently his only other quality pitch. it could well be close to 2014 before he returns if all goes well at surgery and he works hard at rehab with no setbacks.

  162. MTU April 27th, 2012 at 8:12 am

    YT-

    I know it might have been ex post facto but Bowden said that in his experience ordinary MRI’s are insufficient for picking up these types of injuries.

    That Andrews told him as much.

    Considering the importance of the trade shouldn’t the Yankees have at least requested the proceedure ?

    Did they ?

    If not, why not ?

    And assuming they did and were rebuffed shouldn’t they have taken that as a serious red flag ?

    See where I’m going ?

    We’ll never know anyway.

    ;)

  163. Betsy April 27th, 2012 at 8:14 am

    I do not think Pineda was damaged goods. The kid had innings issues which would have resolved themselves normally had the Yankees handled him the right way. Instead, they put a ridiculous amount of pressure on the poor kid to make the team and this is the result.

  164. MTU April 27th, 2012 at 8:17 am

    Some of our commenters were all over not making this trade.

    I compliment them and give them credit.

    Me. I was a fence-sitter and expected it to take years to decide the merits.

    It was shocking to see the outcome decided so quickly.

    This one just blew up in the Yankees face right along with Pineda’s shoulder.

    :(

  165. jmv April 27th, 2012 at 8:18 am

    Hi, YT

    Quick post before I go to work. The risk of infection is minimal. But it’s not an everyday procedure, so I don’t blame them

    Hey, MTU
    Couldn’t open the Bambi link. But I did dream of the hunter. Scary

  166. MG April 27th, 2012 at 8:21 am

    with the Rangers making a great comeback against a tough Ottawa team and the Knicks playing some great basketball this week I haven’t been paying much attention to the Yankees or to the Pineda situation.

    I read through the posts last night from CB and others-they had such good insight it reminded me of why I first started reading this blog, it’s a shame that it has descended into such a mass of trivial bs over the past couple of years.

    My opinion is that the Yankees should overall slow down bringing minor league pitchers up to the majors until they are truly ready (I believe Randy has stated this on many occasions), including being able to pitch a full season in the majors with no innings limitations. That means that the fan base has to accept the fact that these guys aren’t going to pitch for the Yankees until much later than it may seem reasonable.

    It’s also pretty clear that pitchers under 25 are risky in terms of injury, maybe that should also tell them to shy away from trades involving these prospects unless you are giving up something similar in return.

    I think the Yankees organizational strategy is sound about pitching-stockpile as many good arms as possible and let the best ones rise to the top.

    Part of all of this, of course, is that fans fall in love with some of the prospects like Montero, Betances, Banuelos, etc and prematurely decide that these guys will be the future of the organization while guys like Nova come along without the same expectations and become mainstays of the team. Remember, no one thought Mariano Rivera would be a star in 1995 when he was a very ordinary starting pitcher with a fastball and change. It’s possible that DJ Mitchell will be a better major league pitcher than either Betances or Banuelos, none of us have a clue right now.

    Montero may turn out to be an outstanding bat in the majors but right now his results indicate he has a ways to go-2 walks in 68 ABs means he is very impatient at the plate and his sub 700 OPS indicates that he isn’t hitting the ball with much authority on a consistent basis. This may just be an example of the Yankees having a much different evaluation of his ability than the fan base (we’ll never know)-I’m OK with that.

    As for Pineda, I hope he comes back OK but there is certainly no guarantee, this isn’t the first time a young pitcher has blown out his shoulder in baseball, the historical list is endless and life goes on, the Yankees will go on and they will contend for a title this year.

  167. blake April 27th, 2012 at 8:22 am

    I doubt Seattle had any conclusive evidence or knowledge that he was hurt…..would it surprise me if they had concerns or suspicions that made them more willing to part with him?……No.

  168. MTU April 27th, 2012 at 8:22 am

    The Yankees told CMW not to do any exercise in the OS after his lisfranc injury.

    That lead to a weakness in his hips which lead to further arm injury.

    The hip weakness was only discovered later on.

    Fast forward to Pineda.

    His team tells him to pretty much shut it down over the Winter.

    Does anyone see a paralell ?

    Maybe it’s not such a good idea to lie dormant over a whole OS.

    Maybe the correct proceedure would be to have some sort of targeted rehab, or strengthening program ?

    Anyway, what’s done is done but it’s just a thought.

    ;)

  169. Yankee Trader April 27th, 2012 at 8:24 am

    MTU-

    I guess I’m guilty of putting spin on the trade. I feared the worst when I saw the tweet in MLBTRs that said an impact bat was just traded, but didn’t yet name who it was. I feared it was Montero, but hoped it wasn’t.

    Then I felt that it was a done deal and after a while, before ST started I felt the Yankees might be getting the mirror image of CC Sabathia, and I surmised that to be a major plus. I was trying to make the best out of a situation I really wasn’t happy about.

    Then when his velocity wasn’t there early, it was because he was working on the CU, and it was early in ST to be airing out the fastball.

    Now I don’t know what to think, but I do know that I wish “Monstero” was a Yankee, and I’ll never support the Yankees trading a major young impact bat for a young pitcher again.

  170. blake April 27th, 2012 at 8:24 am

    “Did they ?

    If not, why not ?”

    No….I don’t know why not. Bowden just said that he always requested it in big trades for pitchers….sometimes the player would say no and then he had to decide whether to make the deal …..

  171. MTU April 27th, 2012 at 8:27 am

    jmv-

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  172. blake April 27th, 2012 at 8:27 am

    I hated the trade from the start but at least had the hope that Pineda would help them this year and become a stud…..now even that part is gone for this year and maybe forever……this is why the Yankees should never have to take these sort of chances…..they should never have to trade top 5 overall prospects for things they can get with money……it defeats the whole purpose of development in the first place.

  173. austinmac April 27th, 2012 at 8:29 am

    MTU,

    The question I would like to see answered is whether dye injected MRIs are ever done pre-trade. I think not due to a small risk involved. I doubt the Yankees had that option, realistically.

  174. Yankee Trader April 27th, 2012 at 8:30 am

    And BTW the risk of infection is very small with dye contrast MRIs, but having had one, they do “smart”

  175. MTU April 27th, 2012 at 8:33 am

    Mac-

    Maybe not but at the very least I hope they were smart enough to have requested it and then be turned down.

    I’d like to know that but I know I’ll never know.

    I have no idea if any team has ever granted that proceedure and wouldn’t have a clue on how to find that out.

    As Blake said above, at least request it and if you are turned down you decide if that is enough of a red flag to deep six the deal.

    This was not an ordinary trade.

  176. MTU April 27th, 2012 at 8:35 am

    Orinary MRI’s and strength testing do not pick up these types of injuries.

    So there’s that.

    ;)

  177. MTU April 27th, 2012 at 8:37 am

    Mac-

    There is another alternative known as a saline-assisted MRI.

    Perhaps, that one carries even less risk ?

  178. blake April 27th, 2012 at 8:39 am

    Mac,

    Bowden said he requested it with every trade for a pitcher upon Dr. Andrews recommendation……now he said they didn’t always let him but he made them tell him no.

  179. MTU April 27th, 2012 at 8:39 am

    I’m gonna have a burrito and a cup of black coffee.

    Maybe that will cheer me up.

  180. Yankee Trader April 27th, 2012 at 8:40 am

    MTU-

    My contrast media was Gadolinium, a metal, and that has and can cause Nephrogenic Syndrome, basically a shut down of the kidneys especially in people with pre-existing kidney insufficiency.

    I really don’t know what tracer or dye is used with saline injected MRIs, but it would have to be something to be able to visualize salt water passing thru the glenoid labrum.

  181. MTU April 27th, 2012 at 8:41 am

    Blake-

    That’s exactly what I meant.

    Did the Yankees make them say no ?

    And if they did how did they react and evaluate the refusal ?

    They weren’t just exchanging baseball cards here.

    This trade was a momentous one.

    ;)

  182. MTU April 27th, 2012 at 8:46 am

    YT-

    The point still stands.

    Request it and see what the reaction is.

    Sometimes you can learn a lot from just those types of situations.

    ;)

  183. MTU April 27th, 2012 at 8:48 am

    YT-

    jmv is a Physician. In fact a surgeon.

    He said he thought the risks are minimal.

    I’m gonna respect his experience.

    You ?

    ;)

  184. MTU April 27th, 2012 at 8:53 am

    I wish SJ was here for this episode.

    He had a world of experience with inside baseball operations and how management tends to think.

    I’m only guessing but I’d bet he’d say we are overthinking this one.

    His POV was always that prospect are just prospects, and that it was very hard for them to make it to the majors and be successful.

    The odds were really stacked against them.

    Unfortunately, injury is one of those hurdles.

    And it reared it’s ugly head and came into play this time.

  185. Melkmanisinhotlanta April 27th, 2012 at 8:54 am

    Cashman needs to be fired. Pineda had “issues” in the second half of 2011 duh! It’s almost as if Cashman decided to trade for this defective pitcher to divert attention from his affair and impending divorce. His mind wasn’t clear when he made this trade and he hinted at his uncertainty by claiming that he could be trading away the next Cabrera. Fool! Fire Cashman now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  186. MTU April 27th, 2012 at 8:57 am

    New thread —–>

  187. Melkmanisinhotlanta April 27th, 2012 at 8:57 am

    Who the heck is SJ? The thin skinned one that doesn’t post here anymore?

  188. Yankee Trader April 27th, 2012 at 9:03 am

    Here’s what’s used for dye contrast MRI or CT of the shoulder. It’s either gadolinium or saline enhanced with Omnipaque a radioactive iodine. Both have had serious side effects. This article was updated 4/23/2012

    https://www.radiology.wisc.edu/sections/msk/interventional/Shoulder%20arthrogram/index.php

    MTU-

    I never stayed at a HIE. I’ve been in on and helped take care of MLB athletes such as Bruce Sutter, Bob Gibson, Dale Murphy and others. And yes you guessed it! :)

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    ——————————-

    They should never trade for something the GM claimed would be a strength when he took full control yrs ago.

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