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Postgame notes: “I haven’t really earned the trust”

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Notes on Apr 26, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Phil Hughes said he thought this was going to be a good start. His stuff was good in the bullpen, he looked pretty sharp in the first two innings, and he opened the third inning with a strikeout. But things got out of hand in a hurry and when six of the next seven batters reached base — two of them hit by pitches — Hughes was finished. He’d lasted just two and a two-thirds of an inning, but even he couldn’t argue with the decision to make a change.

“I haven’t really earned the trust to (stay in the game),” he said.

Hughes was the Yankees best starter this spring, but he’s lost three of his first four starts this season. Russell Martin said there are times he hasn’t look comfortable on the mound, then Martin made a not-so-flattering comparison.

“(Hughes) is guy who has tremendous confidence in his fastball,” Martin said. “For him to be successful, he’s got to locate. A.J. had the same problem every once in a while. He’d get into a hitter’s count — he’s confident in his fastball as well — it’s just when you leave one over the middle of the plate, especially those 3, 4, 5 guys, they’re not going to miss it. They’ve got a tremendous lineup. You’ve got to be able to pitch them tough. You’ve got to be able to pitch them backwards. Even when we tried to pitch them backwards, they were still on it.”

Joe Girardi said the Yankees are committed to keeping Hughes in the rotation. With Michael Pineda lost for the season and Andy Pettitte at least two minor league starts away from the big leagues, the Yankees have little choice but to show some patience. Hughes isn’t the only starter struggling.

“We believe he can do it, and I know he believes he can do it,” Girardi said. “But right now, sometimes the ball’s running back a little, he’s leaving the curveball up, the cutter’s sometimes not getting to where he wants to so it is frustrating. But you’ve got to keep working at it.”

• Andy Pettitte allowed four runs — three earned — through five innings in Trenton. He struck out three, walked one and allowed seven hits. “I don’t feel the strength is there yet,” Pettitte said afterward. “… I was a little disappointed in my command.”

• From my good friend Mike Ashmore: “(Pettitte) was going to go a minimum of two starts after this outing regardless,” Brian Cashman said. “He went in here knowing that this wasn’t a situation where he’d be pulled out of here. Even if I lost every starter in our rotation in New York right now, he wouldn’t be coming to New York to replace anybody after this outing.”

• Hughes said tonight’s problem wasn’t particularly complicated or hard to figure out. He left too many balls over the middle of the plate: “I’d throw a good fastball on an 0-0 count, but that doesn’t really get you anything,” he said. “I have to continue to make good pitches all the way through the at-bat. It’s hanging curveballs, fastballs out over the plate. It’s pretty much everything.”

• Hughes showed some emotion when he came off the mound in the third, but he said it was all directed at himself, not at Girardi or the umpire. “Absolutely at myself,” Hughes said. “It’s been frustrating. It’s been disappointing these first starts. Something’s got to change. A little too much frustration probably came out physically. I try not to do that, but sometimes it gets to be too much.”

• Before today’s outing, Hughes had never allowed a run in 15.1 innings at this ballpark.

• Girardi on the decision to bring Clay Rapada into the game in the third inning. “I had a chance to bring in a lefty to face a lefty, knowing that I had another lefty later on in the game and believing that Ron Washington wouldn’t pinch-hit that early. So I took a chance, it worked, and unfortunately we weren’t able to shut them down the rest of the way.”

• Girardi said tomorrow’s off day also played a role in his decision to pull Hughes after just 2.2 innings. “Knowing that I wasn’t going to need to use anyone, and there’s some guys that hadn’t pitched in a while,” Girardi said. “Soriano hadn’t pitched in a while. I knew that I could do that, try to keep it close, see if our offense could catch up.”

• The Yankees offense couldn’t catch up, but Derek Jeter did get two more hits to extend his hitting streak to 15 games. That’s the longest in the American League this season. Jeter has 17 hits in his past 34 at-bats.

• Raul Ibanez was 2-for-4 with an RBI double and his third home run of the season. That led to my favorite Tweet of the night from my good buddy Dan Barbarisi: “Raul Ibanez has 3 home runs this year. From my estimations, they have traveled a total of 4,822 feet.” It’s true, when Ibanez gets hold of one, he crushes it.

• The Rangers were using nothing but relievers tonight, beginning with a spot start from Scott Feldman, but the Yankees couldn’t get anything going against five different bullpen arms. “Sometimes that can be difficult because you don’t see the same guy twice very often,” Girardi said. “You get a different look every at-bat. Sometimes that can be harder.”

• Martin always has a way of bring unexpected perspective to things: “I’ve got confidence in Phil,” he said. “I know he’s got the stuff to do it. He’s tough mentally. I don’t think his start’s as bad as mine, and I’m not too worried, so I don’t think he is either.”

Associated Press photo

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240 Responses to “Postgame notes: “I haven’t really earned the trust””

  1. Against All Odds April 26th, 2012 at 12:43 am

    Against All Odds April 26th, 2012 at 12:39 am

    Betsy April 26th, 2012 at 12:26 am

    Odds, sports is a business and you can’t afford to be emotional……….

    I personally would either send Phil down or stick him in the pen as a long man and let Phelps pitch. I have no clue how he’d do up here as a starter, but he can’t possibly do worse than the pitcher he’d be replacing.

    ————————-

    True you can’t be but they are which is weird. They have been cold with vets like Bernie, Posada, and even Jeter but have shown complete faith in Hughes. He’s a young guy so he needed to be brought along but this is his what 5th season and he’s taken steps back. When does the cord get pulled(as you said AAA or pen). They are so emotionally tied up him making it I think it sometime clouds their judgement.

    Cash: Phil Hughes is going to win 15 games this yr.

    Phil has never won more than 5 games outside of his outlier 18 win season. Why even throw that on him.

  2. Rich in NJ April 26th, 2012 at 12:44 am

    There isn’t anyone on the Yankees’ payroll that can teach Hughes a curve or a slider, especially since he possessed both at one time or another in his life? Really? His FB has been really good, but that’s all he has. That won’t play well in the pen either.

  3. Against All Odds April 26th, 2012 at 12:46 am

    Against All Odds April 26th, 2012 at 12:32 am

    “I spent the last three or four years defending Phil Hughes the starting pitcher in this space, but I’m done with it. End the charade and put him in the bullpen already. If the Yankees had given Joba Chamberlain half the leash they’ve given Hughes, they might actually have a young, quality starting pitcher on their hands. But no, his stuff played up in the bullpen. Apparently that logic doesn’t apply to Phil.

    Hughes retired seven of the first eight Rangers he faced — Adrian Beltre led off the second with a monster solo homer to dead center — but six of the next seven men reached base to end his night. I know Texas is good, really really good, but we’ve seen this movie before and the ending hasn’t changed yet. Phil’s fastball is still plenty good enough that he can be useful as a short reliever, so do it already. Hopefully Joe Girardi’s relatively quick hook is a sign they’re losing patience with Hughes.”

    http://riveraveblues.com/2012/.....nt-4177070

  4. Rich in NJ April 26th, 2012 at 12:46 am

    “…but have shown complete faith in Hughes.”

    It’s not faith, it’s blindness. If it isn’t that, they don’t know what they are watching.

  5. Against All Odds April 26th, 2012 at 12:47 am

    In the pen he could just go FB, curve, and mix in a cutter. The velocity would increase and he wouldn’t have to worry about turning a line-up over multiple times.

  6. Rich in NJ April 26th, 2012 at 12:48 am

    His curve sucks, and his cutter is ineffective to LH batters.

  7. Against All Odds April 26th, 2012 at 12:51 am

    Understood but it would just be for one or two innings at the max. Hughes in moderation seems like a good thing but not over the course of the game.

  8. Rich in NJ April 26th, 2012 at 12:54 am

    But there’s no regular role for him in the pen. He will likely pitch very infrequently, and his arm strength, which is finally back, will probably diminish. There is nothing to lose and possibly a lot to gain by sending him down.

  9. Against All Odds April 26th, 2012 at 12:59 am

    They could send him down but I doubt they do especially with Pineda getting surgery.

  10. Nick in SF April 26th, 2012 at 1:00 am

    This is how I feel about Phil Hughes right now:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2vEtfyveeY

  11. Rich in NJ April 26th, 2012 at 1:03 am

    “They could send him down but I doubt they do especially with Pineda getting surgery.”

    I’m not sure how the two are related. There was obviously a problem with Pineda from the day he arrived at ST, and seemingly, it only got worse.

    Hughes is as healthy as he has been in years. The best way to keep him healthy is to let him pitch regularly somewhere in a situation where he can relearn how to pitch.

    Now, maybe the Yankees don’t have anyone who can teach him something of value, but that’s a separate queition.

  12. Against All Odds April 26th, 2012 at 1:03 am

    Night Rich and everyone else

  13. Rich in NJ April 26th, 2012 at 1:05 am

    GN, AAO.

  14. Against All Odds April 26th, 2012 at 1:07 am

    I’m not sure how the two are related.

    ————————-

    With Pineda out they are going to go with the all hands on deck situation as they always do. Which means they keep the best arms here. They would rather keep Hughes in the pen with the big team than send him down and have him learn to pitch again. If he was solid with a few bad spots maybe they send him down but they might believe they don’t have the luxury to do that.

  15. Against All Odds April 26th, 2012 at 1:08 am

    I’m sure there are ppl in the organization thinking Hughes should be sent down but you know there are also ppl in there thinking he would be an asset to the pen.

  16. Against All Odds April 26th, 2012 at 1:10 am

    Rich they could have sent Hughes down in 2010. They had a rotation of CC,Andy,Burnett, Hughes, and Javy. But what did they choose to do.

  17. Against All Odds April 26th, 2012 at 1:11 am

    not Hughes Joba smh it’s way too late for this lol.

  18. Nick in SF April 26th, 2012 at 1:12 am

    Hughes “beat out” Joba and made the AS game in 2010, when were they supposed to send him down?

  19. Nick in SF April 26th, 2012 at 1:12 am

    Ah, never mind.

  20. muwarriorsfan April 26th, 2012 at 1:36 am

    Somebody should do some stats on how many of the run scoring hits came on 0-2 or 1-2 counts, and how many came with 2 outs.

    Hughes stinks, but the staff as a whole has a devil of a time finishing off hitters.

  21. Pat M. April 26th, 2012 at 1:59 am

    On several fronts The Tin Cup was right again, about Pineda needing fixing……..I don’t know if there is a starter in the game that gets to 0-2 /1-2 as often as Hughes does only to find himself in a dogfight for the out………It’s clear that he needs to attend that class in AAA……..He’s not much liked here but there’s still so much talent…….However it comes down to this, either the NY Yankess figure Phil Hughes out or someone will and we’ll be kicking our selves in the arse for years to come……….Still trying to replace Wang, and had things not gone off the road and side tracked, Hughes, Joba & Ian Kennedy should have really become impact guys in 2011…..Well Ian did at least……..No white aspirin blurs this year at The Stadium for Michael Pineda…..Make no mistake, this is a huge loss, but he’ll be back as the damaged appears to be minimal

  22. theREALkevin April 26th, 2012 at 3:59 am

    Speaking of Wang, who knows, maybe they could get him back. He’s throwing well in rehab starts for Washington & there’s no room for him in their rotation. Detweiler is their #5 & he’s looking good. They may want Wang for depth but who knows? Apparently his sinker is at 90-93 & his slider is looking good. Don’t know what it would take to get him tho & obv he’s been injured some.

    As for the Yanks, I’m really disappointed about Russell Martin. It looks like they overestimated his bat & glove. I’m ok with inconsistent O but I thought this guy was supposed to be able to help pitchers & such? Yanks terrible SP maybe not all his fault but he’s not helping. & no bat. Montero caught Felix tonight btw, 7 ip 1 run.

  23. Duh Innings April 26th, 2012 at 5:02 am

    The Yanks should do these things in this order:

    Make Phelps the new fifth starter.

    Send Hughes to AAA so they have him under control through 2014 not 2013.

    Call up D.J. Mitchell to take Phelps’s spot in the bullpen / Hughes’s place on the roster.

    Put Pettitte into the rotation ASAP.

    Designate Garcia for assignment as he’d be no good in the bullpen (someone would take him, a veteran starter making only $4M minus what he’s been paid so far.)

    Trade Kuroda.

    Sign Roy Oswalt immediately after Kuroda is traded.

    The rotation would be Sabathia / Oswalt / Pettitte / Nova / Phelps.

    The bullpen would be Rivera / Robertson / Soriano / Logan / Wade / Rapada / Mitchell.

    Ideally Pettitte pitches so well and has so much fun this year he re-signs for another year and $2.5M, Nova and Phelps pitch well enough this year to be the backend of the rotation to at least start 2013, and one of the farm system starting pitchers among Hughes, Banuelos, Betances, Warren, and Mitchell earn the fifth starter job in spring training for a 4/5ths farm system rotation of Sabathia / Pettitte/ Nova / Phelps / Hughes, Banuelos, Betances, Warren, or Mitchell (or perhaps one of them could win the fifth starter job and another could bump Phelps out of the rotation.)

    The Yanks could look into re-signing Oswalt, signing Hamels or Grienke, and trading for King Felix (I would love to see them sign Hamels or Grienke and acquire King Felix but I doubt it would happen.)

  24. Duh Innings April 26th, 2012 at 5:06 am

    Oh yeah – at season’s end the Yanks should offer Mo a record reliever salary of $20M to come back for one more year.

    Ideally the bullpen to start 2013 would be Rivera / Robertson / Soriano / Logan / Wade / Two from Aardsma, Mitchell, and Chamberlain (ideally Mitchell and Chamberlain for a 5/7ths homegrown bullpen.)

  25. Duh Innings April 26th, 2012 at 5:08 am

    An all-homegrown 2013 bullpen in Rivera / Robertson / Logan / Hughes / Chamberlain / Mitchell / Phelps if Soriano was traded in the offseason and Hughes and Phelps were considered better for the bullpen than the rotation???

  26. luis April 26th, 2012 at 7:02 am

    Good morning,

    MTU,

    It seems that i picked a good day to miss the game thread. ;) I just got to Madrid, so i’ll be posting very little for the next few days. I’ll try to join you guy in the morningn thread for a while.

    About the game, i will see it in detail later on. But my first reaction is that Hughes needs to be sent down. He simply can’t survive against MLB lineups with the stuff he has. If they leave him with the big club, they are setting him to fail. JF made an interesting comment the other night, he said that the FO thinks that Hughes problem is an approach one and not a repertoire one. Which i think is baffling since they are seeing the same thing we are. It just reinforces my opinion that they don’t really know what they are doing, so much that it is scary.

    Just send him down,let him work his craft and force him to learn and better his repertoire.

    About the pitching situation, i am not concerned. We have CC,Nova,Kuroda and Pettitte to anchor the rotation going forward. And we still have plenty of depth in Phelps, Warren and Mitchell to either filled the 5th spot and long man as needed. I just hope that the FO see it this way and doesn’t make a panic move that will hurt our farm( not counting on it ).

    I feel sorry for him

  27. luis April 26th, 2012 at 7:09 am

    Pat M,

    You are spot on. About Randy, i happen to like him and respect him a great deal, he brings a lot of baseball acumen and knowledge. Whether we agree or not in certain circumstances.

  28. luis April 26th, 2012 at 7:12 am

    Kevin,

    I don’t think Martin has much to do about the performances of the pitching staff. But he is the antithesis of what a Yankee catcher should be IMO, but he has the ears of both Cash and Girardi. :(

  29. Benny Blanco April 26th, 2012 at 7:17 am

    why do people want oswalt in the rotation? This is a pitcher with a history of back problems. If his back weren’t a issue I would be all for it.

  30. Gary April 26th, 2012 at 7:19 am

    Morning, so much spin out there now. Personally I think we are in deep yogurt. Tremendously high expectations now being put on Andy, a 39 year old who has been out of baseball for over a year. The starting pitching like the economy now has been a mess for a number of years.

    Time will tell, but I think the Darvish decision will loom as another bad decision.

    Phelps hasn’t looked good, I don’t see him being the salvation right now with the way he is pitching.

  31. tomingeorgia April 26th, 2012 at 7:21 am

    luis,
    I always liked Madrid, even though I got mugged in the Plaza Mayor!

  32. Gary April 26th, 2012 at 7:22 am

    Benny Blanco April 26th, 2012 at 7:17 am

    why do people want oswalt in the rotation? This is a pitcher with a history of back problems. If his back weren’t a issue I would be all for it.

    ___________________________________________________________________________

    Because they just flip from option to option because it’s a house of cards and it keeps crumbling. It’s the slap another band aid on the wound and things will be alright. I agree we don’t need yet another older pitcher with possible health issues. So much to second guess, Darvish, Wilson, Gio, Garcia ect

  33. Against All Odds April 26th, 2012 at 7:23 am

    They can’t trade Kuroda because he has a full no trade.

  34. tomingeorgia April 26th, 2012 at 7:25 am

    AAO,
    Why would they want to trade Kuroda anyway?

  35. luis April 26th, 2012 at 7:25 am

    tomingeorgia April 26th, 2012 at 7:21 am

    luis,
    I always liked Madrid, even though I got mugged in the Plaza Mayor!

    =========================

    Welcome to the club!! :)

  36. Gary April 26th, 2012 at 7:26 am

    Against All Odds April 26th, 2012 at 7:23 am

    They can’t trade Kuroda because he has a full no trade.

    ___________________________________________________________________________

    Why in god’s green earth would we trade Kuroda?

  37. Against All Odds April 26th, 2012 at 7:29 am

    Not saying we should just explaining it to Duh Innings who thinks they can trade him. I happen to like Kuroda.

  38. Gary April 26th, 2012 at 7:30 am

    Duh Innings is just that, I kind of ignore it.

  39. luis April 26th, 2012 at 7:30 am

    Kuroda? in exchange for what?…Kuroda is part of the solution, i don’t think he is going anywhere

  40. tomingeorgia April 26th, 2012 at 7:31 am

    luis,
    Do you mean theres a “Mugged in Plaza Mayor” club?

  41. Gary April 26th, 2012 at 7:32 am

    Against All Odds April 26th, 2012 at 7:29 am

    Not saying we should just explaining it to Duh Innings who thinks they can trade him. I happen to like Kuroda.

    ___________________________________________________________________________

    Knew that was just making a statement, sorry. I read the 5AM posts so I had seen the comment on Kuroda. I like Kuroda also.

  42. luis April 26th, 2012 at 7:34 am

    tomingeorgia April 26th, 2012 at 7:31 am

    luis,
    Do you mean theres a “Mugged in Plaza Mayor” club?

    =========

    :) I was mugged twice in there (1975 in Christmas i was a little boy then and in 1991 during my honeymoon). I guess i had a sign saying “I AM THE PERFECT TARGET TO BE MUGGED”

  43. Against All Odds April 26th, 2012 at 7:35 am

    No need to apologize it’s ok.

  44. tomingeorgia April 26th, 2012 at 7:40 am

    luis,
    I was with my wife, in broad daylight. While I was wrestling with the mugger, the wife somehow positioned herself for a perfect kick to the nuts. Mugger last seen limping away.

  45. blake April 26th, 2012 at 7:43 am

    Hughes had good stuff last night….electric fastball…..he may have had success against a lesser team but you can’t pitch with a fastball, a bad cutter and CB against a lineup like that and expect to get through more than once……he just doesn’t have the weapons right now to do it……and continuing ti throw hin out there isnt going to change that.

    Hall needs to start saving his Cole Hamels money

  46. blake April 26th, 2012 at 7:45 am

    What the Yanks need…..is for Banuelos and Betances to get on track.

  47. luis April 26th, 2012 at 7:47 am

    tomingeorgia April 26th, 2012 at 7:40 am

    luis,
    I was with my wife, in broad daylight. While I was wrestling with the mugger, the wife somehow positioned herself for a perfect kick to the nuts. Mugger last seen limping away.

    ================================

    Those southern beauties are tough in deed!

  48. tomingeorgia April 26th, 2012 at 7:49 am

    luis,
    Nah, she was raised in Staten Island, and not the best part, either!

  49. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2012 at 7:51 am

    Good morning-

    Madrid-Nice. I wondered why you were up so early. I only got to see the first inning and I thought Hughes was going to have a good outing-throwing first pitch strikes, had velocity and location.

    What happened? And Phelps-what happened there?

  50. yankfan April 26th, 2012 at 7:53 am

    hughes is another failed cashman project

    hughes is a reliever at best
    cashman is LOL as a GM, just awful

  51. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2012 at 7:54 am

    For those of you putting the blame on Cashman for getting Pineda, I’m attaching a good article.

    Here’s a blurb to get you going with your morning coffee:

    “Otherwise, Cashman’s laundry list of pitchers gone wrong is long, from Carl Pavano to Kei Igawa to A.J. Burnett to Jeff Weaver … well, Yankee fans are all too familiar with the names. In those cases, the GM has to take the hit.”

    “However, in the case of Michael Pineda, the righthander who needs shoulder surgery, as the Yankees announced on Wednesday, it’s neither logical nor fair to blame Cashman.”

    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....z1t997pgbG

  52. luis April 26th, 2012 at 7:54 am

    Blake,

    It seems we are in agreement with Hughes…I don’t think they are going to sign Hamels in the offseason if they want to go below the 189 mil mark…What i fear they would do is trade for someone like Garza…Not that i mind having Garza, he is a good pitcher…But for the price they would have to pay in prospects…It would be an unnecessary panic move, that would have a negative impact in our ability to stay competitive going forward due to the new CBA, especially the draft and IFA.

    About Banuelos and Betances, rest easy they will get it together, they are adjusting still.

  53. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2012 at 7:59 am

    Luis and Blake-

    Hughes will get another 2-3 starts to get it right. The decision will be does he remain a starter and need to develop his secondary pitches, or is he going to the pen, where he thrives as the second best set-up man to Matt Thornton in 2009?

  54. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2012 at 8:00 am

    *thrived*

  55. blake April 26th, 2012 at 8:02 am

    “About Banuelos and Betances, rest easy they will get it together, they are adjusting still.”

    I still strongly believe in Manny……becoming less confident to Betances…..its been 6 years and he’s 24 now…..time to see some progress.

  56. luis April 26th, 2012 at 8:06 am

    Trader,

    Good morning!! Actually i am very early riser but usually go running and get early to my office to get work done before people start to show up and distract me.

    About Harper’s article, i think he is right in that you can’t pin the responsibility for the injury to Cashman. But he was responsible for the bad trade that brought Pineda to the Yankees, you could add that one to his long list of pitchers bad trades. Again, what i question in this trade is not the talent exchanged ( if you analyze the talent in a vacuum the deal was fair), but the decision making that lead to that trade. In my view it was philosophically wrong from the start. And since the trade was Cashman’s fault, in the end he is on the hook for everything that happened afterwards.

  57. luis April 26th, 2012 at 8:08 am

    tomingeorgia April 26th, 2012 at 7:49 am

    luis,
    Nah, she was raised in Staten Island, and not the best part, either!

    ==================
    Tom,

    NewYorkers are no easy pie either ;)

  58. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2012 at 8:09 am

    Blake-

    Hopefully Banuelos gets going-because the Yankees lack any lefty minor league starters, who might help after this year. Betances might either be trade bait, or going to the bullpen at some point. Cole Hamels, even if the Yankees were well under the LT threshold, will not be a Yankee-just an opinion. Some players just don’t want to play in NY and Hamels is a southern California guy.

  59. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2012 at 8:14 am

    Luis-

    I’m not usually a John Harper fan, but I thought the article brought up points about Pineda that were not told before.

    I disagree. Sometimes you diligently do your homework and s**t still happens!!

    So Luis, If I agreed with you, we’d both be wrong!! :)

  60. luis April 26th, 2012 at 8:14 am

    Yankee Trader April 26th, 2012 at 7:59 am

    Luis and Blake-

    Hughes will get another 2-3 starts to get it right. The decision will be does he remain a starter and need to develop his secondary pitches, or is he going to the pen, where he thrives as the second best set-up man to Matt Thornton in 2009?

    ===============================

    Trader,

    IMO if he goes to the pen, his career with the Yankees is over. He is going to be too expensive to be a BP guy. His value going forward is remaining as a starter, if they leave him with the big club, they will be setting him to fail. He doesn’t have the secondary stuff to compliment the FB, therefore he is doomed. They need to send him down.

  61. luis April 26th, 2012 at 8:16 am

    Trader,

    :D I love that phrase of yours!! Got to go, see ya later guys!!

  62. Betsy April 26th, 2012 at 8:17 am

    No matter what Joe said, I don’t think Phil’s leash is going to remain this long. There is only so many times you can put the team behind the eight ball and so many times you can just kill the bullpen. He’s got the same issues he always has, which is disappointing. It’s on him that he can’t re-learn the curve or any other pitch. You can teach someone until the cows come home, but ultimately it’s on the pitcher to execute. Hopefully the Yankees will eventually just make the move that they need to and excise Phil from the rotation.

  63. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2012 at 8:26 am

    Have a great day Luis. I agree that if Hughes goes to the bullpen, his Yankee days might be over, as he’ll either be traded before he reaches FA or will leave once he becomes a FA. Give him 2-3 more starts until Pettitte returns and then we’ll see.

    What heappened to Phelps last night?

  64. joeman April 26th, 2012 at 8:30 am

    this staff outside of CC is as bad as it gets & don’t expect much from Andy, 41 years old and hasn’t pitched in the majors in over a year & a half..it’s all on the O this year

  65. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2012 at 8:31 am

    Give him 2-3 more starts until Pettitte returns and then we’ll see.

    I meant to add, at the moment the Yankees don’t seem to have anyone else to step in and take Hughes place. I was hoping Phelps would be able to remove Garcia from the rotation, because he clearly has nothing left in that aging arm. Last year Garcia, had an ERA of 2.0 in the month of April.

  66. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 8:33 am

    Good morning.

    Is anyone still suffering from PPTSD ?

    :)

    Anyway. The rotation needs some fixin’.

    I hope AP can help fill he bill. He was terrible in his outing yesterday at AA.

    Amazing the way our surplus of pitching has just dwindled right before our eyes.

  67. NYYROC April 26th, 2012 at 8:34 am

    Last week someone posted the stats and commented that PH, from the windup, has been very good. From the stretch he is beyond awful. Last night’s game was a perfect example. 1st 2 IP he looked good (HR not withstanding), all of that was from windup. 3rd IP as soon as Moreland singled and PH was pitching from stretch, everything fell apart. Rothschild should take a look and see if he can determine if there is something to it.

  68. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 8:35 am

    YT-

    Re: Phelps

    I think he needs to pitch more frequently.

    Texas is just a tough lineup.

    At this point, IMO he offers more than either Hughes or Garcia.

  69. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 8:37 am

    Hughes 2ndary pitches are insufficient right now.

    His command is surprisingly bad.

    One thing about him that I thought would surely not be an issue is command of the heater.

    It really surprises me how often he misses with it and by how much.

    Puzzled.

    :(

  70. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2012 at 8:37 am

    Thankfully, it appears by dye contrast MRI, that the rotator cuff is OK. I would suspect that many pitchers have even microscopic tears in their labrum. We’ll have to wait until Dr. Ahmad gets a first hand look at the shoulder joint at the time of surgery.

    Attaching the anatomy of the shoulder joint:

    http://www.scoi.com/sholanat.htm

  71. rl1856 April 26th, 2012 at 8:41 am

    Unless Hughes is sent down, they really don’t have an alternative. Phelps is hittable, and arguably may not be an upgrade. Hughes will get another 2-3 starts to work things out. Team will have a decision to make when Andy is ready. Between Garcia and Hughes, whoever is pitching better will stay, the other will go. If Hughes is moved it will be to the pen or AAA. If it is Garcia, he will go to the pen, but will also be shopped aggressively.

    Kuroda is fine. He has what one really bad start ? One really good start, 2 above average starts. If he can replicate how he pitched against Texas during the remainder of the season, he will be just fine and will win a lot of games with this team.

  72. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 8:41 am

    The recovery rate from labrum tears is at best 50% and probably a lot lower.

    What Cashman said yesterday was spin.

    It’s like him saying we were in a severe wreck but it wasn’t a train wreck just an auto wreck.

    Putting lipstick on a pig.

    I feel really bad for Pineda and I hope he makes a full recovery by being one of the exceptions.

  73. Villa Nova-Ya April 26th, 2012 at 8:42 am

    Um – what we’re seeing now is the Yankees staff that made Cashman want to make a trade for more pitching. Minus Noesi, who has mixed results with Seattle so far.

    This is the staff that, pre-trade, had most people saying the Yankees needed pitching.

  74. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2012 at 8:42 am

    MTU-

    Good morning. I attached an article, earlier, from the NY Daily News by John Harper that I felt brought out many of the “facts” behind what due diligence was done before the Pineda trade was finalize.

    For anyone interested, and give me your feedback:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....-1.1067726

  75. BD (Boston Dave) April 26th, 2012 at 8:44 am

    YT,

    I don’t think Ahmad is doing the surgery. It’s Altcheck.

    I was also reading about some interesting alternative procedures but it looks like they’ll be going with the standard.

  76. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 8:45 am

    VN-

    What you’re looking at is the Yankees after a tornado blew threw town yesterday.

    It’s gonna take a little time to regroup.

    ;)

  77. BD (Boston Dave) April 26th, 2012 at 8:45 am

    Hard to argue with that Villa Nova

    Was so excited to see Pineda. Just terrible…

  78. BD (Boston Dave) April 26th, 2012 at 8:47 am

    MTU,

    I keep reading about the terrible return rate of labrum years but I keep asking -

    Is Pinedas tear as bad as the others?

    I’ve read it’s severe and maybe it is…. but it sounds like it could have been much worse (the damage to the labrum) in that they don’t need to make an incision

    I don’t know….

  79. joeman April 26th, 2012 at 8:48 am

    I have a hard time seeing Andy coming back and being anything like he was before he retired…age & time away stacked up against him

  80. pkyankfan69 April 26th, 2012 at 8:48 am

    I was at the Thunder game last night.

    Pettitte was much better than his state-line… The Thunder defense was just BRUTAL last night.

    Andy’s command wasn’t what it was in his previous outings though… Fell behind a bunch of hitters.

  81. Game of Inches April 26th, 2012 at 8:49 am

    The only real choice for Hughes is to go down to AAA and re-learn how to throw his secondary pitches. Without them, he’s useless as a starter. Slot Phelps to take his place until AP is ready, and bring up Mitchell to take Phelps’ spot.

    Anyone considering substituting Kuroda for Oswalt at this point is nuts. There’s a reason why everyone in MLB passed on this guy, and it’s not just the price tag.

    Someone among Hughes, Phelps, Banuelos, Betances, Mitchell, Warren, etc. needs to step up to be able to assume the 4/5 role in ’13 and beyond, otherwise the $189 million pipe dream of Hal’s is out the window. Forget Grienke – you might as well bring Ed Whitson out of retirement. And sorry to say, if Hamels goes anywhere it’s gonna be LA. The Dodgers have new ownership, $$ to spend and he’s a SoCal boy.

    As for Pineda, I feel terrible for the poor kid, but I’m considering him a write off at this point. Thanks Brian and the Yankee pitching “braintrust” for that. Total clusterf**k.

  82. NYYROC April 26th, 2012 at 8:50 am

    Always been a fan of PH, but at this point he does look like he is more suited to BP. But since the NYY need SP every year, I’d give him one last shot and send him to AAA. Tell him to work on secondary stuff & command. Tell him no guarantee he’ll be back in NY. The rest is up to him. If he earns his way back, great. If not, put him in pen or trade. The way he’s throwing now just isn’t good enough to start in NY.

  83. BD (Boston Dave) April 26th, 2012 at 8:51 am

    Thanks for the update pkyankfan

    I’m sure it might take Andy a little more time but we know what he can do when his command is there. Much needed reinforcnement for sure.

  84. blake April 26th, 2012 at 8:52 am

    I think the fact that they think they can do the surgery without cutting him and that his rotator cuff is ok are good things…..but it really doesn’t change the unpredictablity of the injury…..thy just haven’t figured out how to predictabley fix shoulders yet.

    Herr is what’s becoming more and more obviosuky regarding Hughes…..he doesn’t have the weapons to go through good lineups multiple times. He will overwhelm some bad teams with his fastball and throw out an occasional decent outing but against teams like the Rangers he really doesn’t have anything to get them out with……and continuing to throw him out there isn’t going to change that…..

  85. hardwired7 April 26th, 2012 at 8:53 am

    Time to change things up. Let’s have Cashman pitch and Hughes be the G.M.

    Can’t be any worse, right?

  86. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 8:56 am

    BD-

    I’m no expert so I am just giving my opinion FWIW.

    Since you asked, I think the odds are better than they used to be but far from encouraging.

    In the best case I believe the recovery rate to be no better than 50% and probably less if you take a more conservative approach.

    Pineda is a FB pitcher.

    If he does not recover most of his velo he will be forced to learn how to pitch in a different fashion.

    His cieling would of course be lower though he still could be effective.

    That is the less optimistic reading of his situation.

    We are left to hope that Pineda is more exceptional and heals well returning to full function.

    I don’t want to say too much right now because I am not feeling as optimistic as I normally am.

    There is a lot of spin being put on this right now.

    We have to wait for the dust to settle to get a clearer picture.

    I wish the best for Pineda. I’m sure he was crushed by the news.

  87. NYYROC April 26th, 2012 at 8:58 am

    Agreed Blake re: PH. That is why I’d send him to AAA to give him one last shot, since the NYY have an annual need for SP.
    However if he ends up in the pen, that may turn out to be a good thing. What if Mo retires and Sori opts out. 2013 would have DRob and a HUGE ? in Joba as backend BP guys. A 1-2 punch of DRob & PH would be pretty good.

  88. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2012 at 9:01 am

    MTU-

    Where did you get the info that the recovery rate is 50% or less, of pure labral tears with an intact rotator cuff?

    BD-
    I just read where Dr Altchek is doing the surgery, and Dr Ahmad will be in the room also.

  89. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 9:01 am

    If Hughes can’t cut it I too would send him to AAA for a potential makeover.

    Trouble is I don’t think the Yankees would.

    My bet is that if he doesn’t get it together soon he would be sent to the pen.

    I agree with Betsy on this one. I just don’t think the Yankees want to invest anymore time and effort into Hughes.

    I don’t understand what happened to his FB commmand ?

  90. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 9:02 am

    New thread—–>

  91. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2012 at 9:02 am

    New Post—–>

  92. MTU April 26th, 2012 at 9:03 am

    YT-

    There was more recent article on it posted on yesterday’s blog.

    I think jacksquat posted it.

    Look back thru the thread.

    Sorry I don’t have the link handy.

  93. Shame Spencer April 26th, 2012 at 9:04 am

    Just catching up on things now…

    I’m speechless regarding Pineda. This whole thing is just awful. I feel terrible for the kid, of course. Worse for my team, to be honest.

    I’d like to ask a serious question about Phil – how much longer does he get? I know there are quite a few people on here that still believe you can’t give up on him because he’s only 25.. so this is a genuine question to those people, specifically. I want to hear someone who’s had a positive spin on this lol, because Phil makes me want to cry.

  94. J. Alfred Prufrock April 26th, 2012 at 9:59 am

    blake April 26th, 2012 at 7:45 am
    What the Yanks need…..is for Banuelos and Betances to get on track.
    ///

    Sure. Can we get these kids some decent weather first? ;)

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