The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Pitching matchups vs. Tigers

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Apr 27, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Tonight
RHP Ivan Nova (3-0, 3.79)
vs.
RHP Justin Verlander (2-1, 1.72)
7:05 p.m., YES Network and MLB Network

Saturday
RHP Freddy Garcia (0-1, 9.75)
vs.
LHP Drew Smyly (0-0, 1.13)
4:05 p.m., YES Network

Sunday
LHP CC Sabathia (2-0, 5.27)
vs.
RHP Max Scherzer (1-2, 8.24)
1:05 p.m., YES Network and TBS

Comments

comments

 

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343 Responses to “Pitching matchups vs. Tigers”

  1. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 27th, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    I say we sweep the Tigers!

    Match-ups aren’t so bad.

    :)

    GO YANKEES!!!

    Dat’s all.

  2. ac1 April 27th, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    think they should be skipping garcia to get cc on a normal schedule, but whatever…..

  3. Against All Odds April 27th, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    Against All Odds April 27th, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    Shame Spencer April 27th, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    “True every team needs pitching but as you said I thought by now we would reach the point where we aren’t looking under every rock for a pitcher.”

    Yeah its the amount of desperation… do we honestly expect Andy to know if he’s coming back by the end of October? No. So that’s one question mark. Kuroda is on a one year deal. There’s another question mark. Hughes and Garcia…. one or the other likely won’t return, so that may be yet another question mark. That’s three spots we may need to fill (2 almost for certain), and it hinges on Nova not having any setbacks.

    —————–

    It’s asking a lot for Nova not only repeat what he did but also pick up the slack for other slots in the rotation occupied by ppl who are under performing or only here for a 1 at the most. A lot of questions need to be answered.

  4. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    The Yankees have three SP in C, Nova and Kuroda who are pretty damn good.

    If they want to send Phil down (and sounds like he’s taking another turn in the rotation, for better or worse; I’d like to see him better disposed to succeed by taking a hiatus and working on a breaking pitch), they can turn to Phelps, who has overall pitched with poise and well. Stash Freddy in the bullpen.

    If they need yet another arm, they can pick DJ Mitchell off the AAA rotation. Mitchell is not Dellin or Manny, being yanked from a prime development phase of building their arms for another year. He’s got innings, will travel well.

    It’s called depth. And contrary to popular belief, the Yankees have it.

  5. yankeefeminista April 27th, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    I don’t think Nova has to put up the slack for other slots in the rotation. I think he will continue to excel as long as he stays healthy. Each and every day Nova becomes a better pitcher. With he and C at the front, I don’t see filling in the middle to back-end as that much of an issue. We have options, going forward, as well as trade chips, if need be.

  6. DONNYBROOK April 27th, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    Yankees haven’t seen Smyly. We know what that means.

  7. yankeefeminista April 27th, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    *pick up, not put up…

  8. yankeefeminista April 27th, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    With *him (ugh)

  9. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    Odds& YF,

    If Joba does make a complete recovery, we can now say that competing for a starter’s job next ST has become much more realistic.

  10. DONNYBROOK April 27th, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    What Kuroda did to that Ranger lineup bodes well. Yanks lost Any chance of winning that game when they came up Snake Eyes with the bases loaded and Nobody out. Still, Kuroda showed he can subdue an offensive lineup that rivals the Yanks.

  11. yankeefeminista April 27th, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    Shame, I see Joba is back to tweeting about the Rangers. At least he must be feeling better…

    Are you going to any games at Philly? In the 95 playoffs I went to all six games at NJ and at Philly in that series… Jacques’ system, boring as it was, was impenetrable and the Devils were brilliant on the counter, in particular Richer and Claude Lemieux. Are you too young to remember that series?

  12. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    Nothing surprising in what Kuroda did. He’s a pro. His pitching well this year is something I and others took for granted. One reason we saw no need to do something as dumb as waste Montero for an arm.

  13. Rich in NJ April 27th, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    Kuroda is a #3 who was putative #2 to start the season. If Nova pitches like he has, no problem. Their rotation will be fine if they use their available candidates wisely.

  14. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    I remember that year. That also happened, not coincidentally, to be the year Mario Lemieux took a hiatus.

    Scott Stevens was a prophet of sorts. He said, “he’s taking the year off? We’d better hurry up and win a Cup, then.”

    LOL.

  15. Against All Odds April 27th, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    Odds& YF,

    If Joba does make a complete recovery, we can now say that competing for a starter’s job next ST has become much more realistic.

    ————————-

    It has although they probably still won’t do it. As I said a couple of days ago they are in no position to be picky. In a perfect world the 2013 rotation would have been CC, Pineda, Hughes, Nova, and some combo of Andy/Phelps,Warren/a vet on a yr deal. But Pineda is on the shelf and Hughes has been up and down. He would be an option because at this point they only have two locks in next yrs rotation.

  16. yankeefeminista April 27th, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    I’m with Mo:

    “Rivera says Yankees need Pettitte back
    By DAN MARTIN

    With Phil Hughes, Freddy Garcia and Hiroki Kuroda all seemingly trying to pitch themselves out of the Yankees rotation and Michael Pineda gone for the year, the spotlight has grown even brighter on Andy Pettitte.
    “I know how he’s doing,” Mariano Rivera said. “I’m keeping an eye on him.”
    But the closer doesn’t think the Yankees should alter Pettitte’s comeback schedule even if the current starters continue to struggle.
    “We definitely need him back,” Rivera said of Pettitte, who will turn 40 in June. “But we need him at 100 percent.”
    Pettitte gave up three earned runs in five innings Wednesday for Double-A Trenton in his second start and figures to be back in the majors by mid-May. At this point, he could be in line to be the team’s No. 3 starter.
    “He’ll change the dynamic of the whole rotation,” Curtis Granderson said. “We all know what a difference he can make.”
    Still, Rivera isn’t worried about the state of the staff.
    “I’m not concerned at all,” Rivera said. “We have lot of games left. I’m happy it’s happening now than later.”

    Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....z1tG9hnGwA

  17. Against All Odds April 27th, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    I’d liked to have Kuroda back next yr but he could retire and so could Andy he has done it before :D

  18. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    Rich in NJ April 27th, 2012 at 12:34 pm
    Kuroda is a #3 who was putative #2 to start the season. If Nova pitches like he has, no problem. Their rotation will be fine if they use their available candidates wisely.
    ///

    They have yet to do this. But no time like the present.

  19. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    Against All Odds April 27th, 2012 at 12:38 pm
    I’d liked to have Kuroda back next yr but he could retire and so could Andy he has done it before
    ///

    Odds:

    Enter Joba ;). Won’t be a numbers game next year. For, no matter how well Dellin/Manny come out of AAA, they’re not giving two spots to kids. Joba certainly has ML experience, and at least a sample as a convincing starter.

  20. Rich in NJ April 27th, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    “They have yet to do this. But no time like the present.”

    I think how they handle Hughes will offer a lot of insight.

  21. Shame Spencer April 27th, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    yankeefeminista April 27th, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    Shame, I see Joba is back to tweeting about the Rangers. At least he must be feeling better…

    Are you going to any games at Philly? In the 95 playoffs I went to all six games at NJ and at Philly in that series… Jacques’ system, boring as it was, was impenetrable and the Devils were brilliant on the counter, in particular Richer and Claude Lemieux. Are you too young to remember that series?
    ————————————-

    ’95 was really the first season I remember… much like ’96 with the Yanks. I was 8 years old :)

    2000 was one of the best years of my life because of those two clubs. Not often you get to celebrate multiple championships in a year. And, quite frankly, I’ll be thinking a lot about that Conference Finals we had against Philly in 2000. Down 3-1 and Scott Stevens changes the entire series with one hit on Lindros and a threat to the bench that will go down in history as one of the most intimidating things ever witness on the ice. If Scott Stevens ever pointed at me and uttered the words, ‘You’re next.’ after knocking out one of the best players on the ice……. I’d sh*t myself. And I wouldn’t even lie about it.

    I’m surprised to hear you were at Devils’ games, fem. Have you always followed the Pens?

  22. Against All Odds April 27th, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    Against All Odds April 27th, 2012 at 12:38 pm
    I’d liked to have Kuroda back next yr but he could retire and so could Andy he has done it before
    ///

    Odds:

    Enter Joba ;) . Won’t be a numbers game next year. For, no matter how well Dellin/Manny come out of AAA, they’re not giving two spots to kids. Joba certainly has ML experience, and at least a sample as a convincing starter.

    ———————————–

    True it won’t be a numbers game since so many things are up in the air.

  23. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    It has although they probably still won’t do it. As I said a couple of days ago they are in no position to be picky. In a perfect world the 2013 rotation would have been CC, Pineda, Hughes, Nova, and some combo of Andy/Phelps,Warren/a vet on a yr deal. But Pineda is on the shelf and Hughes has been up and down. He would be an option because at this point they only have two locks in next yrs rotation.
    ///

    I see one of Dellin or Manny making the grade next season. If Hughes can get straightened out, there’s more competition. I don’t see how Joba isn’t in the mix, if the Yankees use their heads (I know; not a given). If they don’t trade DJ Mitchell, I don’t see how he doesn’t get a serious look. You’re right: two locks, and a world of young arms to compete. Probably someone will go in some package, but as of right now, we may have a unique moment in Yankeeland: a bunch of young hopefuls with enough innings behind them to fight for jobs. Hey – they want to be the Rays, right? ;)

  24. Rich in NJ April 27th, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    Until proven otherwise (or he becomes unavailable), I think they will pursue Hamels.

  25. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    Rich in NJ April 27th, 2012 at 12:42 pm
    “They have yet to do this. But no time like the present.”

    I think how they handle Hughes will offer a lot of insight.
    ///

    That’s my fear ;)

  26. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    Rich in NJ April 27th, 2012 at 12:48 pm
    Until proven otherwise (or he becomes unavailable), I think they will pursue Hamels.
    ///

    …and will have sacrificed Montero for nothing…

  27. jacksquat April 27th, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    The Yankees aren’t going to make Joba a starter, and that was so before TJ surgery and severely messing up his ankle.

  28. luis April 27th, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    Hello guys!,

    Just posting for a little while.

    JAP,

    I think you are right, this has open the door to Joba. Next season rotation CC, Nova, Joba, Phelps and Betances/Banuelos, if Andy and Kuroda retire for good. The key is to let Phelps get his experience this season. About Hughes, it all depends on how they handle him from here on out. I think it is a mistake to leave him at the MLB level, they are setting him to fail.

    YF,

    Let’s hope they don’t make another trade. They are probably going to trade the good prospects for another pitcher ( something like Garza ).

  29. Rich in NJ April 27th, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    “…and will have sacrificed Montero for nothing…”

    What’s done is done. I can only hope they learn from their mistake(s). Most people don’t, which is why I think they need a change in management personnel.

  30. luis April 27th, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    I wouldn’t count on the Yankees pursuing Hamels. I see them trading for another pitcher for there ever in need rotation

  31. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    ———————————–

    True it won’t be a numbers game since so many things are up in the air.
    ///

    There will be numbers, but, I should say, Joba will be one of the few with more experience. I wish we had a GM who actually WAS bold, instead of one who claims to be bold.

    Bold is giving Joba another shot to start, and really bringing along a Phelps and adding a Dellin or Manny, as their progress dictates. Re-sign either Andy or Kuroda to lend some backbone to the rotation and roll them out there. Meanwhile, DJ Mitchell actually gets a shot. Yankeefem has been championing Mitchell for some time now, before it became trendy. Kudos, fem! I hope he gets his chance!

  32. Rich in NJ April 27th, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    luis

    The reason I think they will is because it is the only “eraser” out there for the potentially historic mistake they made, and it may be the only move they can make that puts them ahead of where they were prior to the trade.

  33. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    luis April 27th, 2012 at 12:55 pm
    I wouldn’t count on the Yankees pursuing Hamels. I see them trading for another pitcher for there ever in need rotation
    ////

    Are you telling me….Gary Sanchez never makes it to the Bronx? :(

  34. tomingeorgia April 27th, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    luis,
    The game will be on at 1:05 AM Spanish time. I expect you’ll just be finishing dinner, if my Madrid memories are still true. Going to watch at all?

  35. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    Rich in NJ April 27th, 2012 at 12:55 pm
    “…and will have sacrificed Montero for nothing…”

    What’s done is done. I can only hope they learn from their mistake(s). Most people don’t, which is why I think they need a change in management personnel.
    ///

    Unlikely they’ll learn, when all they get is pats on the back from media and fans alike. They suffer from “bad luck.”

  36. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    Let’s hope they don’t make another trade. They are probably going to trade the good prospects for another pitcher ( something like Garza ).
    ///

    I can just see a Sanchez/Betances/Williams swap for a Garza. If it happens, I’m giving up baseball. At least, until a new administration takes over.

  37. tomingeorgia April 27th, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    Just asking, will there ever be a day on Lohud when Montero’s name will not be mentioned, or alluded to?

  38. Against All Odds April 27th, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    It has although they probably still won’t do it. As I said a couple of days ago they are in no position to be picky. In a perfect world the 2013 rotation would have been CC, Pineda, Hughes, Nova, and some combo of Andy/Phelps,Warren/a vet on a yr deal. But Pineda is on the shelf and Hughes has been up and down. He would be an option because at this point they only have two locks in next yrs rotation.
    ///

    I see one of Dellin or Manny making the grade next season. If Hughes can get straightened out, there’s more competition. I don’t see how Joba isn’t in the mix, if the Yankees use their heads (I know; not a given). If they don’t trade DJ Mitchell, I don’t see how he doesn’t get a serious look. You’re right: two locks, and a world of young arms to compete. Probably someone will go in some package, but as of right now, we may have a unique moment in Yankeeland: a bunch of young hopefuls with enough innings behind them to fight for jobs. Hey – they want to be the Rays, right? ;)

    ——————-

    Yes they want to be the Rays with money(Hal) but they aren’t as smart as the Rays so far lol :D

  39. Rich in NJ April 27th, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    “Just asking, will there ever be a day on Lohud when Montero’s name will not be mentioned, or alluded to?”

    I’ll say no, but it’s hardly unexpected.

  40. Against All Odds April 27th, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    tomingeorgia April 27th, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    Just asking, will there ever be a day on Lohud when Montero’s name will not be mentioned, or alluded to?

    ———————
    Probably not especially with Pineda hurt.

  41. Rich in NJ April 27th, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    The more interesting question (in relative terms, because I don’t think whether or not the issue is brought up matters), is which side brings it up more, the pro or the con.

  42. luis April 27th, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    JAP,

    I don’t know, i see them trading the B’s for a guy like Garza. Let’s hope i’m wrong on this.

    Rich,

    What about the 189 mil cap?, if they do that you are saying goodbye to a bunch of other players ( some combination of Grandy, Martin, Swisher and maybe Cano as well). If they sign Hamels ( 120 mil per 6 seasons ), they have to get those 20 mil from somewhere, so if Swisher is already a goner and probably Martin, then you have to add Grandy to that. Could be wrong though, but i don’t see it.

    Tom,

    I hope i can. It all depends on the boss (wife). You have a pretty good memory, they do dine real late, and after dinner ( around midnight ) they go out until dawn.

  43. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    Odds, not so far.

  44. Against All Odds April 27th, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    There will be numbers, but, I should say, Joba will be one of the few with more experience. I wish we had a GM who actually WAS bold, instead of one who claims to be bold.

    —————————–

    Cashman wants to be too many things at once small market, big market, spend don’t spend, trust the kids don’t trust the kids, etc

  45. Rich in NJ April 27th, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    luis

    They just have to pass on Martin and Swisher. Both are nice players, but Hamels is an impact pitcher.

  46. Nick in SF April 27th, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    “Michael Pineda felt pain in his right shoulder on the 15th pitch of his first rehab assignment.”

    Has anyone written about how he looked in pitches 1-14?

  47. tomingeorgia April 27th, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    Rich, AAO,
    I meant EVER. I think everybody’s position on this has been registered and hammered home time and again. It’s certainly anybody’s right to keep on hammering it, but man, it’s boring.

  48. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    Rich in NJ April 27th, 2012 at 1:09 pm
    The more interesting question (in relative terms, because I don’t think whether or not the issue is brought up matters), is which side brings it up more, the pro or the con.
    ///

    Yeah, let’s all just pretend we didn’t just willingly give up a 22 year old, healthy slug/average guy who is now catching and batting for a major league team who was unilaterally viewed by scouts as a “can’t miss” elite bat.

    Let’s do that, because we want to stick our heads even deeper into the sand and pretend Cashman is just a jolly good GM who suffers from “bad luck.”

    McGriff and McGee are dead and buried, but lo! They live! The more things change….:(

  49. luis April 27th, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    Rich in NJ April 27th, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    luis

    They just have to pass on Martin and Swisher. Both are nice players, but Hamels is an impact pitcher

    =========================

    On budgetary reasons i will defer to you. If that’s the case, then we may keep our prospects. Let’s hope so. Got to go guys, i’ll try to use the BB.

  50. Against All Odds April 27th, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    tomingeorgia April 27th, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    Rich, AAO,
    I meant EVER. I think everybody’s position on this has been registered and hammered home time and again. It’s certainly anybody’s right to keep on hammering it, but man, it’s boring.

    ————————————-

    This was an earth shattering trade that was a bold move. It’s going to continue for a long time.

  51. yankeefeminista April 27th, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    Shame, yes I have always been a Penguins fan, Mario fan in even the dog days and also a huge hockey fan generally from college hockey to International. For example, I was at all 6 games of Pens-Bruins in 91-92, and at 1992 Stanley Cup Finals vs. Black Hawks at the Igloo, and every subsequent important game there and elsewhere in NY metro area. as for your Devils, I basically lived at the Meadowlands in the early to mid 90′s, attending every Pens game there. Also attended most playoff games within NY metro driving distance until I went to grad school. :)

  52. luis April 27th, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    Tom,

    The thing is that the move will impact the Yankees for years to come. Every time that affects the team one way or the other it’s going to be brought up.Buy guys later i hope.

  53. Rich in NJ April 27th, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    Looking at the trade qua trade may now be boring. How the loss of Pineda and a trade piece in Montero impacts them going forward is even more relevant now.

  54. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    What I find boring is listening to a bunch of sheep wandering around in a field of poppies, yelling “let’s go Yankees! Rah rah, Cash!” like some hypnotized booster club.

    What I find vindictive and small minded is people trying to dumb down other people’s well-reasoned arguments from GO about why this trade was not only dumb, but a fireable offense.

    Why is this being discussed? Here’s why:

    Michael Pineda, the “No. 2″ who was so worth the price of Montero, is now scheduled for shoulder surgery. What he will be when he comes back in a year and change is anyone’s complete sh!t at the wall guess.

    Jesus Montero is catching and hitting for Seattle. Hector Noesi is taking a turn in the Seattle rotation.

    Jose Campos, the secret “real jewel” of this trade, is taking a turn in the Charleston rotation.

    Hmm…it seems to me what is gratuitous, demanding and self serving are the people here who want to muzzle everyone. If Montero is so GD irrelevant, why must you cover you ears upon hearing his name?

    I want Cashman fired, and the more I have to hear about Jose Campos being worth Montero (now that Pineda’s very career may be in jeopardy), the more I’m going to represent the sober side.

    Easy for you: you never watched him in the minors, you don’t give a crap about him. He’s no loss to you.

  55. yankeefeminista April 27th, 2012 at 1:29 pm

    Frankly, I think the Montero “side” has been incredibly restrained out of deference to those who don’t want to hear about him. Especially now after this outcome. I for one have been more restrained than I normally would be because everything on this blog is taken so personally and in spite of my anger, heartsickness, and as a full season ticket holder and someone who had watched Montero play for 5 years, my utter disgust that I was gypped out of getting to see Montero play for years to come. Some people here have no idea how hard Montero was to give up because not only because he was (is) a special bat, but because of the utter risk we took. Pruf, G Love, some others get it maybe because they too followed Montero, understood his value, saw him at the Stadium, watching him play in a way that you just can’t see on TV: the obscene ability, the confidence, the Yankee pedigree. So, yeah, I have restrained myself out of deference, but this constant call to shut up about him, really does make me angry.

  56. darbodla April 27th, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    Montero trade was a good one. Injury has nothing to do with the trade. Pitching is more important; most baseball execs loved the deal for the Yankees.

  57. hardwired7 April 27th, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    Has anyone written about how he looked in pitches 1-14?

    ————

    I heard it was a combination of Sidd Finch meets Steve Nebraska.

  58. Against All Odds April 27th, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    darbodla April 27th, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    Montero trade was a good one. Injury has nothing to do with the trade.

    ——————————

    Only if they were getting a sure thing. Now some ppl didn’t want to move him at all but if it was for a sure thing would the outrage be this extreme.

    The risk of injury was one of the reasons why the trade was not a no brainier.

  59. darbodla April 27th, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    There are no sure things. Montero is no sure thing. He could get injured tomorrow as well. Young good, cost-controlled pitching is far more valuable.

  60. Nick in SF April 27th, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    “Frankly, I think the Montero “side” has been incredibly restrained out of deference to those who don’t want to hear about him. ”

    FYI, 4/20 was last week.

  61. Rich in NJ April 27th, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    “What I find boring is listening to a bunch of sheep wandering around in a field of poppies, yelling “let’s go Yankees! Rah rah, Cash!” like some hypnotized booster club.

    [...]

    I want Cashman fired, and the more I have to hear about Jose Campos being worth Montero (now that Pineda’s very career may be in jeopardy), the more I’m going to represent the sober side.”

    What I have learned from reading blogs/boards over the years is that fans want to believe that their team is well-run until it becomes impossible to do so. At that point, their ownership through their GM and head coach/manager become the world’s worst and a threat to their sanity.

    Since the Yankees make the playoffs almost every year, fans have a reasonable basis for concluding that their team is sufficiently well-run.

    From my perspective, I don’t think that’s true. Their success, imo, flows from two factors: their huge payroll advantage and the continuing, almost other worldly, contributions from the remaining members of the original core put in place by Stick.

    I would hope this blunder might be a watershed moment that might put this team’s decision-making on a more efficient track, but I doubt it.

    Anyway, I understand both sides.

  62. luis April 27th, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    YF and Pruf

    I completely agree on your posts. I would only add: you forgot about me! :D. After all I am either laurel or hardy. ;)

  63. Against All Odds April 27th, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    He could or he could play the full season and not get hurt. Pineda came with some caution. Trading for Verlander is not the same as trading for MP because you know what you’re getting. I hope he comes back and is ready to roll but would anyone be surprised if he has another set back or if he doesn’t respond well to the rehab.

  64. Giuseppe Franco April 27th, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    Young pitchers are far more likely to get injured than young position players.

  65. jacksquat April 27th, 2012 at 1:44 pm

    Jesus Montero is a baseball player. Followed the player, fine. Admired the player, fine. Were disappointed he was traded, fine. But some people act like Cashman traded away their first born.

  66. yankeefeminista April 27th, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    Luis, I thought of adding an addendum. In that post I was talking specifically about those attending games at the Stadium. But of course you too as well as Randy and the others who understand what we have lost and the feeling of being “cheated out of” seeing Montero’s career as a Yankee.

  67. yankeefeminista April 27th, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    jacksquat, not our first born but a born Yankee.

  68. yankeefeminista April 27th, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    Rich, I understand both sides too, but I don’t try to suppress the other side.

  69. GreenBeret7 April 27th, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    DONNYBROOK April 27th, 2012 at 12:13 pm
    It still bugs me that Detroit bam-boozled MLB into allowing them to add Young to their Playoff Roster in spite of the fact he was acquired AFTER the July 31 trade deadline. The Yanks-Got-Shanked by Bud on that one.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Don’t let the fact that as long as Young was on the team before August 31st, there was no reason for him not to be on the PS roster.

  70. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    luis April 27th, 2012 at 1:39 pm
    YF and Pruf

    I completely agree on your posts. I would only add: you forgot about me! . After all I am either laurel or hardy.
    ///

    LOL! Right: Laurel and Hardy. Below the belt cheap shot.

    Any way, luis. I do not forget you. And why no one understands why you would mourn the loss of not only a great prospective Yankee bat, who is also The Son of Venezuela, your native land, as well as being against this trade on a practical level – well who’s lacking in compassion for Yankee fans, I would ask?

  71. Rich in NJ April 27th, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    yf

    I agree. The suppression only comes from one side, for obvious reasons, but I was, in part, trying to suggest why. Some fans need to believe that their team is run well.

  72. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    yankeefeminista April 27th, 2012 at 1:46 pm
    Rich, I understand both sides too, but I don’t try to suppress the other side.
    ///

    Right. What the hell. Either debate honestly or s-c-r-o-l-l p-a-s-t.

  73. ac1 April 27th, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    If Joba does make a complete recovery, we can now say that competing for a starter’s job next ST has become much more realistic.

    ___

    This makes way too much sense. Joba will have one year before free agency, so what is the reason not to let him try to start again? WIth Pineda out, Joba will be a cheap alternative to another 20M/year pitcher. If he fails, he can go back to the pen until he hits free agency.

    Yankees will have Robertson/Soriano/Logan/Aardsma and maybe Hughes if he doesnt get it together, in the pen so there is no real need to have Joba there too.

  74. tomingeorgia April 27th, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    Heresy! Heresy! Let’s burn the nonconformist NOW!

  75. darbodla April 27th, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    So never deal for a superb young pitcher because they might get injured? Funny.

  76. yankeefeminista April 27th, 2012 at 1:52 pm

    Against All Odds April 27th, 2012 at 1:40 pm
    He could or he could play the full season and not get hurt. Pineda came with some caution. Trading for Verlander is not the same as trading for MP because you know what you’re getting. I hope he comes back and is ready to roll but would anyone be surprised if he has another set back or if he doesn’t respond well to the rehab.
    _____
    This on both counts. Do we even need to say that we feel for and pray for Pineda and hope he can come back and pitch well for us.

  77. Shame Spencer April 27th, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    Fem – Good stuff re: hockey. It’s nice to hear someone being a fan of the sport to the point where they just like seeing games played, even if their team isn’t always involved. Especially another chick, tbh ;) There are so few of us that actually enjoy the game..

    Re: the Montero factions… I find it incredibly amusing. I rove a couple blogs for my favorite teams and the similarities are incredible. Usually one faction of fans insisting the organization is solid in every respect, the other considered to be a doom-and-gloom bunch. In reality, people are more centered but get grouped into said categories by the posters on the blog. It’s a strange dynamic, fandom.

  78. Rich in NJ April 27th, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    “So never deal for a superb young pitcher because they might get injured? Funny.”

    Not for a pitcher in the injury matrix with your only ML ready potential impact bat.

    Who’s laughing now? Hint: It’s not anyone associated with the Yankees.

  79. yankeefeminista April 27th, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    Rich in NJ April 27th, 2012 at 1:48 pm
    yf

    I agree. The suppression only comes from one side, for obvious reasons, but I was, in part, trying to suggest why. Some fans need to believe that their team is run well.
    ____
    Rich, I understand that and people can believe what they please, but please let freedom of speech rein, and please, please try to differentiate between reasoned posts even if you disagree and trolling.

  80. Shame Spencer April 27th, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    Nick in SF April 27th, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    “Frankly, I think the Montero “side” has been incredibly restrained out of deference to those who don’t want to hear about him. ”

    FYI, 4/20 was last week.

    —————–

    Dude.. where’s my objective pipe?

    Seriously, Nick, I’m pretty sure if anyone has it, it’s you ;)

  81. Nick in SF April 27th, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    Thank goodness LoHud provides this forum for authoritarian suppressers to vent their frustrations too.

    The Politburo is in agreement. There must be purges.

  82. luis April 27th, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    YF,

    It was just a joke. I know that you know where I stand.

    YS,

    I wouldn’t have minded if he traded his first born. I mind that he made an incredibly bad move. That will impact us for years to come.

    I want him out. It is clear that he has no idea of how to run the team. I know you didn’t like the trade either. If I ran my business like he runs the Yankees I would have been out of business years ago.

    As Rich very well said, the only reason this team hasn’t tanked, it is because of their financial power. Otherwise this team would be a sad thing to see. They cover their huge mistakes with money. That’s not efficient IMO.

  83. yankeefeminista April 27th, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    “Who’s laughing now? Hint: It’s not anyone associated with the Yankees.”

    No one here is laughing, maybe someone out west…

  84. darbodla April 27th, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    No one knew he would get injured, of course no one is happy about it in the Yankee organization but it was just bad luck. His medicals were clean. That kind of second guessing is foolish. It was a very good deal for the Yankees on the merits.

  85. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    Rich, it’s fine to believe it, even when the evidence suggests otherwise. Or even if you aren’t in denial, per se, but feel you have a legitimate take that supports management.

    But hell, it’s my GD team, too. I want to feel good about them. I defended Cashman all over the net for not capitulating on Hughes for Santana, and for rebuilding the farm; not because I wanted to feel good about them, but because I believed in him. I didn’t like the Vazquez deal one bit; especially because it sprang from having run out of patience with Chamberlain’s development as a starter. But the latest represents a line that was crossed. I want him removed.

    If I had no investment in them, I wouldn’t care that they just made an epic disaster of a trade. These wounded souls on here have a decidedly narcissistic take: that I, and others, protest to inflict pain on them.

    What I want is Cashman and Co. out.

  86. RadioKev April 27th, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    Does firing Cashman make the organization any better? Is he bad enough that any average GM will do a better job? That we want some new guy to come in and make his own mistakes? Firings don’t right the ship.

    Has any GM of any sport ever been fired before the end of the first month of the season because he traded a prospect?

    I’ll stop asking questions and go back to eating grass I guess. Clearly I’m a mindless sheep.

  87. Rich in NJ April 27th, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    “No one knew he would get injured, of course no one is happy about it in the Yankee organization but it was just bad luck.”

    No, many people knew that he was susceptible to injury (far more than a hitter) because that’s part of being a pitcher under 26, and he did have a drop in velo at the end of last season.

  88. Giuseppe Franco April 27th, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    darbodla April 27th, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    So never deal for a superb young pitcher because they might get injured? Funny.

    ——–

    Well, WCDB.

    If you listened to Cashman talk about this deal after the fact, you’d know that he himself said that the Yanks were taking on the much bigger risk with Pineda. Did he not?

    Young pitchers are far more risky by nature due to not only the injury factor but because he was an unfinished product without a consistent third pitch.

  89. Against All Odds April 27th, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    Do we even need to say that we feel for and pray for Pineda and hope he can come back and pitch well for us.

    ——————————

    Yes because ppl feel that pro Montero fans are happy MP is injured.

  90. Rich in NJ April 27th, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    “Does firing Cashman make the organization any better?”

    It depends who replaces him, right?

  91. Against All Odds April 27th, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    darbodla April 27th, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    No one knew he would get injured, of course no one is happy about it in the Yankee organization but it was just bad luck. His medicals were clean. That kind of second guessing is foolish. It was a very good deal for the Yankees on the merits.

    ————————-

    Bad luck? Bad luck his velocity went down at some point last yr. Bad luck the Ms told him don’t throw over the winter. It’s not second guessing when the GM came out the day of the trade went down and said we’re assuming all the risk.

  92. tomingeorgia April 27th, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    AAO,
    Yep.

  93. Against All Odds April 27th, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    R.I.P. Moose

  94. RadioKev April 27th, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    Rich,

    Exactly. Firing him and his guys creates a need – who the heck runs the show and what happens in the mean time?

  95. Shame Spencer April 27th, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    Perfect example – some thoughts from another blog about the ‘pollyanna’ vs. ‘nonconformist’ fan factions:

    “Perfect response, Montreal_Devil. A perfect response which proves my point exactly.

    You’re the vanguard and we’re the proletariat and you don’t care what anyone else thinks. We already knew you felt that way. Thanks for confirming it.

    But don’t mind us. We’re just trudging along mindlessly, bricks in the wall. We’re happy to work like the animals and idiots we are.

    We’re too stupid to know we’re spending money on a past time, filling the pockets of lazy Russians. It’s too embarrassing to turn back now, so we trudge on.

    If only our Comrade Montreal_Devil could rescue us from our shallow existence and liberate us! Comrade Montreal_Devil is not driven by a love of himself. He is not self-absorbed. He loves us and wants to liberate us from our ignorance! He is our leader and our redeemer.

    Posted by Vlad Dracul on 04/27 at 01:14 PM”

    Anyone wanna try their hand at editing this to fit LoHud, lol???

  96. Rich in NJ April 27th, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    RadioKev

    You’re right. Until they identify a replacement, he should stay. But imo, a search should begin.

  97. Nick in SF April 27th, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    ” No one here is laughing, maybe someone out west…”

    No laughter. If you’re not shaking your fist at your monitor/laptop/smartphone/tablet/sundial then you’re not paying attention, right?

  98. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    jacksquat April 27th, 2012 at 1:44 pm
    Jesus Montero is a baseball player. Followed the player, fine. Admired the player, fine. Were disappointed he was traded, fine. But some people act like Cashman traded away their first born.
    ///

    The Yankees are a baseball team. They’re not your family. Brian Cashman isn’t your uncle. Yet you jump like you’ve been hit by lightning every time someone brings up the name Montero.

    Get over it. It’s just a game played by players who don’t care whether you live or die.

    See how that works?

  99. darbodla April 27th, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    Well GFFA, most all baseball execs liked the deal from the Yankees POV. Just a bad break on the injury, the Yankees did their due diligence.

  100. RadioKev April 27th, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    I think firing Cash over ANY prospect trade within the first MONTH of the trade is extremely rash.

    Now the farm system and they way we handle our pitchers should be strongly looked at. Can Cash make those changes (for the better) himself, or is there someone out there who can better handle the needs of developing talent? I think that’s a fair question. Especially if this organization IS expected to develop more talent now.

  101. tomingeorgia April 27th, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    AAO,
    Did Skowron pass?

  102. Shame Spencer April 27th, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    I feel like Cashman is like Obama or something… he cultivated all this hope lol…

    I’m being facetious, of course, but maybe its not a bad comparison. I also was a very big defender of Cash until this past off season. I still defend him to a degree but I think its becoming a lot more clear that the front office is truly split. The moves have been too schizophrenic.

  103. Against All Odds April 27th, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    darbodla April 27th, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    Well GFFA, most all baseball execs liked the deal from the Yankees POV. Just a bad break on the injury, the Yankees did their due diligence.

    ———————-

    Of course they liked it because it looked like a steal but the more you think about it what are the odds the Ms gave up two pitchers projected to be number 1s at best or 2s-3s at worst for a “DH” and back end starter

  104. yankeefeminista April 27th, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    Against All Odds April 27th, 2012 at 1:59 pm
    Do we even need to say that we feel for and pray for Pineda and hope he can come back and pitch well for us.

    ——————————

    Yes because ppl feel that pro Montero fans are happy MP is injured.
    _____
    Odds, if that is true of some people here than they are lost and the debates on this blog become more important to them than rooting for the Yankees. Whoever even thinks that way, I pity.

  105. Against All Odds April 27th, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    Yes he did Tom.

  106. Rich in NJ April 27th, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    “I think firing Cash over ANY prospect trade within the first MONTH of the trade is extremely rash.”

    But it’s not merely about the trade, it’s about his serial poor trades for starting pitchers, and the inability to develop starting pitchers.

  107. Against All Odds April 27th, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    yankeefeminista April 27th, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    Against All Odds April 27th, 2012 at 1:59 pm
    Do we even need to say that we feel for and pray for Pineda and hope he can come back and pitch well for us.

    ——————————

    Yes because ppl feel that pro Montero fans are happy MP is injured.
    _____
    Odds, if that is true of some people here than they are lost and the debates on this blog become more important to them than rooting for the Yankees. Whoever even thinks that way, I pity.

    ——————

    It’s more than likely just trolls not real fans. A few real fans maybe in I told you so mode but I don’t think they’re happy a guy is injured.

  108. tomingeorgia April 27th, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    RIP, Moose.

  109. jacksquat April 27th, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    JAP, my posts are not anywhere near as passionate as yours. Maybe you can’t see it, but you have basically been raging about the Montero trade ever since it happened. I am not passionate about Cashman one way or another. Man, I even said I wouldn’t have made the trade.

    But I don’t think he should be fired. The team was not made a disaster simply by trading Montero.

    Try to have some perspective. There are many more things to like about this team than to dislike. There are newer players on Yankees to route for, some home grown. There are still several players in the minors, which I’m sure you’re aware of, that are very exciting, even if it might be a couple years before some of them get a shot.

  110. G. Love April 27th, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    You want to believe the team is well run but it’s not. Part of the reason why CC could hold the Yankees over the barrel and get an extension was because of Cashman’s failures as a GM.

    His supporters give him credit for the likes of Colon, Garcia and Chacon, yet those were lottery tickets. They were pitchers who did not become rotation stalwarts and answers. They were band-aids who covered up the bigger problem. For every Chacon I can give you a Carlos Silva. Some people only remember his successes and don’t see the failures and the failures have mounted.

    He covers for it because the media is loyal to him and because he can go to the idiots who own the team and say “see guys, I told you finding pitching was soooo hard”.

    Meanwhile, he’s destroying the roster bit by bit.

    You know as well as I do that Mo & Jeter still being viable and leaders do a lot to help this team win each season. Look at the Red Sox last year. They were a team full of egotistical punks. They had more talent than we did, but they fell apart because they didn’t have the class or the drive that the Yankees do which was all started here long before Cashman became GM.

    He’s not a baseball man. He doesn’t surround himself with baseball men.

    The development pipeline is broken. Robertsen came out of nowehre and was far less heralded than Melancon. Nova was allowed to go to SD in the rule 5 draft. Think about that for a second. The GM who claims Nova as a success of his system threw the kid away for 25k because he didn’t see in him what was apparent from the moment I saw him take the mound as a pro.

    We’re spoiled. We win not because we have the most money, but because there are guy in that locker room that strike fear in their teammates if they don’t put in the effort. How could you look Jeter and Mo in the face if you dog it? You can’t.

    Once they’re gone, if Cashman is still in charge, that clubhouse might turn into a country club with no accountability. It’s why Donnie should have been the manager going forward. That would never happen on his watch.

    Cashman, Girardi, the whole lot of them, win because of the tradition and the pride that still puts a uniform on each day and inspires the rest of the troops to play like they are Yankees.

    Cashman’s moves are catching up with us. He covers them by having the money to go get Kuroda, by being able to dump AJ’s salary and by being fortunate enough to GM a team that a guy like Andy looks at with regret and missed enough to come back for pocket change.

    The Pineda deal was a dud from jump street. That much I’m certain of. The minute that kid was tossing 88mph out of the gate in Tampa, the word was out that something was wrong.

    Cashman will deny that and defend his process, but his process stinks. He’s a terrible GM with a wonderful checkbook.

    He couldn’t run a small market or mid market team if he tried and he knows it. That’s why he never leaves the job even though his media buddies make it sound like he’s got so many opportunities every time his contract is ready to expire.

  111. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    darbodla April 27th, 2012 at 1:51 pm
    So never deal for a superb young pitcher because they might get injured? Funny.
    ///

    Here’s the dumbing down strawman thing in effect.

    No one said never.

    There are conditions: never for a 22-year old bat/catcher who has a natural opposite field power stroke for the Stadium and who is going to hit for average and power to all fields. A guy who gave you a preview of the damage he can do in the majors.

  112. Giuseppe Franco April 27th, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    It’s not really a fluke or a bad break on the injury when the Yankee GM clearly states that they assumed all the risk with this deal.

    Spin it any way you like but a predictably bad move now has devastating implications over the next several years.

  113. RadioKev April 27th, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    G Love, I think you need to take step back. You’re way too close to this thing.

  114. yankeefeminista April 27th, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    RIP, Moose. A great, great Yankee who will be missed.

  115. darbodla April 27th, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    You have to give to get and good young cost-controlled pitching is a more important asset to a major league team than a young hitting prospect. Derek Jeter has spoken on this numerous times, pitching, pitching, pitching.

    The Yankees saw Montero for years they thought he was expendable. Time will tell.

  116. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    jacksquat April 27th, 2012 at 2:13 pm
    JAP, my posts are not anywhere near as passionate as yours. Maybe you can’t see it, but you have basically been raging about the Montero trade ever since it happened. I am not passionate about Cashman one way or another. Man, I even said I wouldn’t have made the trade.
    ///

    It is interesting, isn’t it, that I have no idea of your position on any of this. You said yesterday you were against the trade. Yet I have no sense at all prior to that claim where you stood. Like I said, interesting.

  117. tomingeorgia April 27th, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    If this deal turns out as badly over the long term as many assume it it will, it may have been bad luck, or a serious misjudgment. Anybody here ever involved in a divorce? Same deal.

  118. mick April 27th, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    RIP The Moose, a member of the family.

  119. Shame Spencer April 27th, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    Rich in NJ April 27th, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    “I think firing Cash over ANY prospect trade within the first MONTH of the trade is extremely rash.”

    But it’s not merely about the trade, it’s about his serial poor trades for starting pitchers, and the inability to develop starting pitchers.
    ———————————

    There does seem to be a giant disconnect here where people don’t take into consideration the history of non-linear moves the Yankees have made in the past 3-4 off season.

  120. Against All Odds April 27th, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    His supporters give him credit for the likes of Colon, Garcia and Chacon, yet those were lottery tickets. They were pitchers who did not become rotation stalwarts and answers. They were band-aids who covered up the bigger problem. For every Chacon I can give you a Carlos Silva. Some people only remember his successes and don’t see the failures and the failures have mounted.

    ——————-

    To be fair he does get criticized a lot but you know it’s bad when the yr wonders have to be included balance out the failures. Not saying they don’t count because they do when miracle seasons from guys like Chacon and Small need to be used it’s not a good look. I was a supporter of Cashman for many yrs but over the last few seasons I’ve been very critical of some of his decisions.

  121. Giuseppe Franco April 27th, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    The Yanks already had a number of young arms in their system. They only had one major league ready bat.

    That’s just one of many reasons why it was a stupid trade.

  122. Warning Track Power April 27th, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue April 27th, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    I say we sweep the Tigers!

    Match-ups aren’t so bad.

    :)

    GO YANKEES!!!

    Dat’s all.
    **************************************************************
    I like your style!

    The game tonight has me worried because the tigers hurler is not bad, hahaha!!
    Hope the offense can get started early and give Nova an early led that he can hold
    for the duration.

  123. CashmanLovesPsychoHookers April 27th, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    Am I the only one who thinks it made more sense to run Garcia out there against Verlander and save Nova for Saturday, a game you figure to have a better chance to win?

    Why WOULDN’T you do that??? Even if Garcia is pitching on short rest, who cares? It’s not like the guy has been in his previous games long enough to get tired.

  124. RadioKev April 27th, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    Giuseppe, do any of those arms look ace caliber right now? Seriously, none of those guys are making Cashman look stupid right now. Nova is I suppose, but at the end of the day he’s kept Nova and Nova even benefitted from his demotion.

  125. LGY April 27th, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    You have to give to get and good young cost-controlled pitching is a more important asset to a major league team than a young hitting prospect. Derek Jeter has spoken on this numerous times, pitching, pitching, pitching.

    ——–

    This is hilarious considering, Derek Jeter, a position player, is by far the most important Yankee of the past 16 years

  126. Warning Track Power April 27th, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    tomingeorgia April 27th, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    If this deal turns out as badly over the long term as many assume it it will, it may have been bad luck, or a serious misjudgment. Anybody here ever involved in a divorce? Same deal.
    **************************************************************
    I will categorize this deal for now as, “bad luck”. Why should Cashman feel the heat or take the blame for a player who gets injured?
    Yankees did all they can before making the trade in terms of checking the medical records.

    Montero could have easily broken his leg or arm in ST-That would be bad luck as far as the Mariners are concerned.
    These sort of things happen.
    I don’t get all the fuss. Of course having Pineda throwing 97 right now and giving the team innings would have been great, but the kid injured his arm and we wait for his arrival next season.

  127. yankeefeminista April 27th, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    “After hitting .341 and leading the American Association in homers (31) and RBI (134), the Yankees were sold on Skowron’s hitting ability, but not so much on his outfielding skills. (“I almost got killed in the outfield,” Skowron later said. “I couldn’t go back on balls and I didn’t get good jumps on them.”)

    It was decided to move him to first base, but at the time the Yankees had future Hall-of-Famer Johnny Mize and Joe Collins there, so they sent Skowron back to Kansas City for another year of minor league seasoning.

    In the meantime, they enrolled him in the Fred Astaire dance school to help him work on his footwork.

    “It helped me a lot with my footwork,” Skowron said, “and it didn’t hurt me socially either.”

    When Skowron finally did get called up to the Yankees in ’54, he hit .340 in 87 games, platooning with the lefthand-hitting Collins. He hit over .300 his next three seasons and became entrenched as the Yankees first baseman.”

    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....z1tGcB1Bi6

  128. yankeefeminista April 27th, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    I like Nova having the challenge of facing Verlander, actually.

  129. Shame Spencer April 27th, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    yankeefeminista April 27th, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    RIP, Moose. A great, great Yankee who will be missed.
    ——————-

    Who died?!

  130. BD (Boston Dave) April 27th, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    “a predictably bad move now has devastating implications over the next several years.”

    ===========

    devastating?

    eesh

    Should we build a bomb shelter?

  131. Giuseppe Franco April 27th, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    RadioKev April 27th, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    Giuseppe, do any of those arms look ace caliber right now? Seriously, none of those guys are making Cashman look stupid right now. Nova is I suppose, but at the end of the day he’s kept Nova and Nova even benefitted from his demotion.

    ———–

    Pineda wasn’t going to be “ace caliber” now either.

    Cashman flatly said he was going to be a project and needed to establish a consistent third pitch to take his game to another level.

  132. jacksquat April 27th, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 2:21 pm
    jacksquat April 27th, 2012 at 2:13 pm
    JAP, my posts are not anywhere near as passionate as yours. Maybe you can’t see it, but you have basically been raging about the Montero trade ever since it happened. I am not passionate about Cashman one way or another. Man, I even said I wouldn’t have made the trade.
    ///

    It is interesting, isn’t it, that I have no idea of your position on any of this. You said yesterday you were against the trade. Yet I have no sense at all prior to that claim where you stood. Like I said, interesting.

    Well then, I guess you weren’t reading my posts. I stated many times that I thought Montero should be untouchable. And Banuelos. Mayyybe trade Betances for the right player. My plan was for Montero catch 40-50 games and DH the others, with the older guys needing DH days to take them when Montero catches. I argued that Montero could be a decent catcher if not good, and with his bat that would likely be fine. Heck, I wanted Montero up at the beginning of last year instead of Cervelli. I criticized Girardi for likely putting too much emphasis on catcher defense because that is the kind of catcher he was. I’ve said that stuff multiple times. I was as excited as anyone when Montero hit the two homers in that one game. I was as pissed as anyone that Girardi did not use him more in the postseason.

    But, what’s done is done. It’s like losing a girlfriend, you just have to move on.

    As for Cashman, I think there is a lot of “grass is greener on the other side” going on here. All GM’s make good trades and signings and bad trades and signings. And I’ve definitely seen many worse.

  133. Nick in SF April 27th, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    If I can be serious for a moment — apologies in advance — I sympathize with your frustration, tomingeorgia, but if you truly don’t want to read the names “Montero” and “Pineda” anymore, I would advise you to just watch the games and avoid Yankee blogs for the next year.

    It’s not necessarily inevitable that the conversations will always take on the surreal qualities they often do here, but it’s pretty inevitable that the trade and the various parties involved will be discussed over and over again. That’s the nature of the beast here, but it’s also because of the nature of the trade. That would be so even if Pineda was healthy and pitching, but his injury has frozen the status quo into place for the duration of this season and perhaps beyond. That’s just the way it is.

    The Prognosis Negative moment also happened to come after a tough loss to the pitcher many of us wanted the Yankees to get and before a tougher loss by a pitcher it’s becoming harder and harder to believe in, followed by an off day. So of course the topic has been omnipresent. It’s like the news on Pineda was the wound and then Yu Darvish and Phil Hughes took turns pouring salt into it.

    Lots of other stuff will be discussed here as the games go on and season progresses, but talk of the trade will not disappear, despite the jackbooted thugs that are supposedly knocking on the door.

  134. Stoneburner April 27th, 2012 at 2:37 pm

    What I want is Cashman and Co. out.

    **********

    Ahhhh – yes – but what I want is you gone from the Yankees fandom – you are not worthy or deserving of it with your fake Yankees fan boys who overreact and only think of there here and now rather than waiting and seeing how it all works out – - – -

    Remember – it is the paid scouts who finds the players in the first place – the very players the fake fan boys gush about and think they know more about than the paid scout b/c they go to a few minor league games in Charleston or in Trenton (not many Tampa references – interesting)

    Remember – without the paid scout – you would not have a Mason Williams to follow . . . . .

  135. tomingeorgia April 27th, 2012 at 2:37 pm

    WTP,
    Agreed.

  136. Shame Spencer April 27th, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    “Why should Cashman feel the heat or take the blame for a player who gets injured?”

    He isn’t. SMH.

    People really cannot distinguish between the anger over a trade and the general unrest over the NON-LINEAR, INCONSISTENT, and ERRATIC moves made by the front office over the last several off seasons.

    Should it be Cashman only who is held accountable? Probably not. But show me one organization where the owner is willing to fire himself….

  137. RadioKev April 27th, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    Giuseppe, yes, but adding another premium young arm gave us that good depth. If Betances or Banuelos didn’t work out, we still had Pineda – who showed he can hang in the bigs last season. The biggest question with Pineda was that change up — not his health (at the time of the trade),

  138. Warning Track Power April 27th, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    yankeefeminista April 27th, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    I like Nova having the challenge of facing Verlander, actually.
    *******************************************************************
    I agree.
    Let Nova go up against the very best and gain even more confidence.

  139. Giuseppe Franco April 27th, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    BD (Boston Dave) April 27th, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    devastating?

    eesh

    Should we build a bomb shelter?

    ——-

    Uh, yes, devastating for a team that is determined to be under the $189M threshold in 2014 and they just lost one of their most valuable, and more importantly, cheapest assets.

  140. yankeefeminista April 27th, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    People keep ignoring Cashman’s own proclamation about how in this deal we took all the risk. re: young pitchers and the injury matrix. So here is a link to an article about young pitchers and risk:

    http://willcarroll.tumblr.com/.....vs-history

  141. Bret The Hitman April 27th, 2012 at 2:41 pm

    It was stupid to ever think the Yankees were wed to Jesus Montero. DH is both a short and long-term insurance policy for Arod mainly and Jeter to a lesser extent.

  142. yankeefeminista April 27th, 2012 at 2:41 pm

    Here’s the original BP article: http://www.baseballprospectus......cleid=1658

  143. RadioKev April 27th, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    I have a friend who’s a Met fan — he was so upset that they traded Kazmir. Now that was definitely a bad trade, and they could have used Kaz for a few years, but in the grand scheme of things…

  144. LGY April 27th, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    Even if you want to chalk up Pineda’s bum shoulder to “bad luck” was how the Yankees handled Pineda in ST and his rehab after being shut down just unlucky?

  145. Giuseppe Franco April 27th, 2012 at 2:43 pm

    RadioKev April 27th, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    Giuseppe, yes, but adding another premium young arm gave us that good depth. If Betances or Banuelos didn’t work out, we still had Pineda – who showed he can hang in the bigs last season. The biggest question with Pineda was that change up — not his health (at the time of the trade),

    ———-

    Health is always a major factor with young arms. It’s the nature of the game for young pitchers to be more vulnerable to injuries than position players.

  146. BD (Boston Dave) April 27th, 2012 at 2:43 pm

    GF,

    I enjoy your posts… but I guess if it’s really devastating you won’t be watching any games for the next few years?

    I mean either you’re wrong about it being “devastating” or there’s really no hope for the Yankees to avoid this impending doom and inevitable mediocrity.

    And on the flip side, maybe Nick in SF should bet the farm on the Mariners?

  147. RadioKev April 27th, 2012 at 2:44 pm

    It is always a major factor, bad as Chad put it, this is the reason they made the trade. It’s ironic, but logical.

  148. Bret The Hitman April 27th, 2012 at 2:44 pm

    It’s the nature of the game for young pitchers to be more vulnerable to injuries and flaming out – thus the need to stockpile depth in that area – Pineda, Banuelos and Betances are a case in point so far.

  149. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    In the meantime, they enrolled him in the Fred Astaire dance school to help him work on his footwork.

    “It helped me a lot with my footwork,” Skowron said, “and it didn’t hurt me socially either.”

    //

    :D. That’s a beaut. Real men…

    RIP, but he’s probably dancin’ and playin’ baseball in Summerland ;).

  150. Hassey April 27th, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    for all baseball fans in Texas, courtesy of SI.com:

    Do you deserve that foul ball?
    http://deadspin.com/5905512/do.....andy-chart

  151. Niblick April 27th, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    The Montero trade was bad not because Pineda is injured and may never pitch an inning in pinstripes, but because Pineda just isn’t that good of a pitcher. He had one good half last year. He had a horrible second half. His AAA ERA was something like 4.67. The Yankees gave up Montero and Noesi for a guy who pitched well for less than three months. That’s why the trade was bad.

  152. Shame Spencer April 27th, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    Bret The Hitman April 27th, 2012 at 2:41 pm

    It was stupid to ever think the Yankees were wed to Jesus Montero. DH is both a short and long-term insurance policy for Arod mainly and Jeter to a lesser extent.

    ———————-

    I keep hearing this, too – has anyone considered that by the time Arod is spending most of his time at the DH position that Montero might have progressed to the point of catching 100+ games a season?

    Why are these two things interlinked as mutually exclusive??

  153. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 2:47 pm

    LGY April 27th, 2012 at 2:42 pm
    Even if you want to chalk up Pineda’s bum shoulder to “bad luck” was how the Yankees handled Pineda in ST and his rehab after being shut down just unlucky?
    ///

    …..crickets?…..?…..

  154. LGY April 27th, 2012 at 2:48 pm

    RadioKev April 27th, 2012 at 2:44 pm
    It is always a major factor, bad as Chad put it, this is the reason they made the trade. It’s ironic, but logical.

    Bret The Hitman April 27th, 2012 at 2:44 pm
    It’s the nature of the game for young pitchers to be more vulnerable to injuries and flaming out – thus the need to stockpile depth in that area – Pineda, Banuelos and Betances are a case in point so far.

    ————-

    The stock market is volatile and fragile.

    How do you balance carrying a risky asset?

  155. waka flocka April 27th, 2012 at 2:50 pm

    Montero has an OPS under .650 in Seattle right now. The way some of you are acting would lead someone to think he is crushing the ball. Hes not. It would have been fun to watch Montero but you have to face the facts: no one thinks he is a catcher, he can’t play first due to Teixeira, and he apparently is too big to play the outfield. You’re dealing with a prospect that, for your team, is a DH. That is pretty limited value. Pineda had/has the upside of a top end starter. I will take that over a DH any day of the week. The Yankees can go out and sign a competent DH (see: Ibanez, Raul who has the same number of HRs as Montero in 20 less ABs).

    No side has won this trade yet. Its still up in the air. Its ridiculous to call for anyone’s job but I guess some of the trolls and negative nancy types on these boards need something to cry about.

  156. Nick in SF April 27th, 2012 at 2:50 pm

    I’m not going to be betting the farm on the Mariners, but I did bet on Montero to hot over 19.5 homers. I think I also took the up side on Ichiro, Smoak, and maybe even Ackley on some offenstive stats. Irrational exuberance?

    Montero would’ve filled a different need to the 2012 Yankees than he’s supposed to fill for the 2012 Mariners. Pineda is now out of the equation for this season. Who knows what Montero’s production minus the production of those who wouldn’t be on the team would add up to.

  157. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 2:50 pm

    RadioKev April 27th, 2012 at 2:44 pm
    It is always a major factor, bad as Chad put it, this is the reason they made the trade. It’s ironic, but logical.
    //

    i consider you among those who troll people here who were and remain against this trade. I think you need to start responding to posts that move you to respond, rather than making sweeping, condescending jabs at what you believe are “emotional” states of posters who take the time to write a thoughtful post.

  158. Bret The Hitman April 27th, 2012 at 2:51 pm

    If Hank never gives Arod that asinine contract, your savior Jesus Montero has a much better chance of being on the Yankees right now – but they still needed a potential #2 for 2012, 2013 at the latest.

  159. Don Vito A. Bellamo April 27th, 2012 at 2:51 pm

    With Garcia finally giving us a quality start and Nova refusing to lose, I agree….SWEEP ! :-)

  160. austinmac April 27th, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    I remember having a 1960 Moose bubble gum card. Good player. Rest is peace.

  161. Nick in SF April 27th, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    “has anyone considered that by the time Arod is spending most of his time at the DH position that Montero might have progressed to the point of catching 100+ games a season?”

    Of course. Why would you think otherwise?

  162. tomingeorgia April 27th, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    Nick,
    I understand all you say, but I don’t feel like a jack-booted thug for pointing out that nothing new has been said on this topic since the trade went down, and especially since the injury was revealed. I’m not arguing that the deal might not be an epic fail, but not because it was, per se, a bad trade. All I’m saying is that nothing has been settled, and won’t be for a while. If Monero is Cabrera, Mantle or Ruth, I for one would like to see it happen. If Pineda becomes a right-handed bookend for CC, even better, because he’s ours for the next few years. I’d just like to read something new on the subject. BAAAA!

  163. Warning Track Power April 27th, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    Bret The Hitman April 27th, 2012 at 2:44 pm

    It’s the nature of the game for young pitchers to be more vulnerable to injuries and flaming out – thus the need to stockpile depth in that area – Pineda, Banuelos and Betances are a case in point so far.
    ****************************************************
    Allow me to follow up. Between those 3 “kids”, I will be thrilled if only 1 of them ends up helping the Yankees win another WS title or two.
    Expecting all 3 of them to contribute would be a small miracle.
    The Braves of the 90′s are the rare exception. They had young hurlers from their farm system that helped the team win for so many years. That sort of thing can not be expected.
    Stock up on young arms and hope 1 out of 3 helps the team win WS rings.

  164. Rich in NJ April 27th, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    “I have a friend who’s a Met fan — he was so upset that they traded Kazmir. Now that was definitely a bad trade, and they could have used Kaz for a few years, but in the grand scheme of things…”

    Or they could have had four years of above to way above average production, or they could have traded him for a better player than Victor Zambrano. No matter how you look at it, it was a bad trade in any grand scheme.

  165. Shame Spencer April 27th, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    Can we stop citing Montero’s lack of production as a reason to ‘stop whining’…. sort of moot when you find out Pineda isn’t going to be pitching at all this season, isn’t it?

    Montero could hit 2 HRs this season and it would still be more of a contribution than whatever we’ll get from Pineda.

  166. Giuseppe Franco April 27th, 2012 at 2:54 pm

    BD,

    I think if you asked Girardi and Cashman about this situation they would both agree that it’s a devastating injury for the franchise going forward because he was supposed to be a major cog.

    I’ve been a Yankee fan for 30 years while growing up in a Chicago suburb.

    I watched the bad Yankee teams in the late 80s and early 90s, and fortunately, I’ve watched a lot of really good Yankee teams the past 15 years.

    So I’m not going to stop watching this team. Pinstripes are in my blood. But this didn’t have to happen.

    I was a big supporter of Cashman until this deal and Girardi and Rothschild didn’t help matters in his last start of ST when the kid clearly had something wrong with him and they just sat there and watched the Titanic sank.

    The whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

  167. Warning Track Power April 27th, 2012 at 2:54 pm

    waka flocka April 27th, 2012 at 2:50 pm

    No side has won this trade yet. Its still up in the air. Its ridiculous to call for anyone’s job but I guess some of the trolls and negative nancy types on these boards need something to cry about.
    **************************************************************
    Thank You! I can’t agree more.
    Claiming a victory in this trade in the 1st month of the season is delusional

  168. Bret The Hitman April 27th, 2012 at 2:55 pm

    waka flocka April 27th, 2012 at 2:50 pm

    Montero has an OPS under .650 in Seattle right now.

    **********

    That’s the piece of poop they keep covering up right now with this faux outrage. The main reason why they flipped out over this deal had little to do with Verducci and everything to do with the fact they bought into the hype that Montero is supposedly the next Pujols or Mickey Mantle. Notice how they’re not talking about that now.

    Directly after the trade, Montero was referred to as “generational hitter”. Now he’s just a “trade asset” or a “stable equity on the stock market”.

    Freaking losers.

  169. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 2:55 pm

    The Yankees can go out and sign a competent DH (see: Ibanez, Raul who has the same number of HRs as Montero in 20 less ABs).
    ///

    Do you think that Jesus Montero is going to sit at a .650 OPS? Do you think Jesus Montero is a .650 OPS bat? And would you rather have Raul Ibanez in the Yankee lineup over Jesus Montero? Who is “nobody”? Montero just caught King Felix a few nights ago. He was 3 for 5. In fact, he seems to hit better when he’s catching, rather than when he’s DH’ing. Kind of Posada-like.

  170. G. Love April 27th, 2012 at 2:55 pm

    Um, the Mariners won the trade. They have 2 healthy young talented players on their 25 man roster and Pineda’s having labrum surgery on Tuesday.

    They won.

    If we had a young C part time DH hitting .280 with some power in the opening weeks of the season we’d be building statues for him right now.

  171. CashmanLovesPsychoHookers April 27th, 2012 at 2:55 pm

    Why do so many keep buying into the “bad luck” and “it’s unfortunate Pineda GOT injured” crap???

    Michael Pineda was CLEARLY not right–in fact, not even CLOSE to right–from the word go. You can make the hindsight argument, I suppose… But with all we know now, you have to be pretty naive to believe this guy was healthy when he got here.

  172. LGY April 27th, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    I know how to reduce my overall risk! Let’s go out and acquire an extremely expensive and risky asset!

    -No one

  173. Giuseppe Franco April 27th, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    Bret The Hitman April 27th, 2012 at 2:44 pm

    It’s the nature of the game for young pitchers to be more vulnerable to injuries and flaming out – thus the need to stockpile depth in that area – Pineda, Banuelos and Betances are a case in point so far.

    ——–

    They’ve been stockpiling arms since 2005. They need someone in the organization who has an idea how to develop those young arms.

  174. Rich in NJ April 27th, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    “No side has won this trade yet”

    What? Here’s the simple test of a trade. Would the Mariners undo the trade now? No. Would the Yankees? In a NY nanosecond.

  175. Niblick April 27th, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    Pineda’s ERA after July 4 last year was 5.71.

    That makes AJ look good.

  176. austinmac April 27th, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    Rich,

    I don”t know any reason to believe the Yankees, under any circumstance, will go after Hamels. He will be added to the ever growing list of players we ask “why didn’t they go after him?”

    They will be among the least likely to sign other free agents of any team in baseball. The numbers just don’t work for new big contracts for at least two years.

  177. Bret The Hitman April 27th, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    I’m out.

  178. hardwired7 April 27th, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    If you’re not going to get “T-bone” as a nickname, “Moose” is a great alternative.

    RIP.

  179. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    Giuseppe Franco April 27th, 2012 at 2:54 pm
    BD,

    I think if you asked Girardi and Cashman about this situation they would both agree that it’s a devastating injury for the franchise going forward because he was supposed to be a major cog.

    I’ve been a Yankee fan for 30 years while growing up in a Chicago suburb.

    I watched the bad Yankee teams in the late 80s and early 90s, and fortunately, I’ve watched a lot of really good Yankee teams the past 15 years.

    So I’m not going to stop watching this team. Pinstripes are in my blood. But this didn’t have to happen.

    I was a big supporter of Cashman until this deal and Girardi and Rothschild didn’t help matters in his last start of ST when the kid clearly had something wrong with him and they just sat there and watched the Titanic sank.

    The whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
    ///

    +1.

    As a season ticket holder of the past 30 years, I’ve also seen it all and felt it all. This is a low point, and I’m concerned about the next move to compensate for this mess.

  180. CashmanLovesPsychoHookers April 27th, 2012 at 2:59 pm

    G. Love April 27th, 2012 at 2:55 pm
    Um, the Mariners won the trade. They have 2 healthy young talented players on their 25 man roster and Pineda’s having labrum surgery on Tuesday.

    They won.
    ===============================
    AMEN!

    Hypothetically, pretend we made this exact same trade in reverse with say… The Red Sox. We send them a guy with a blown out shoulder headed for ladrum surgery and they send us a premium and healthy young prospect.

    Would ANY PERSON here be saying, “It’s too early to judge THAT deal”??? I think not.

  181. Against All Odds April 27th, 2012 at 3:00 pm

    You have to give to get and good young cost-controlled pitching is a more important asset to a major league team than a young hitting prospect.

    ———————————

    I thought Cashman’s goal was to stream line the pitching so they wouldn’t be desperate for pitching.

  182. jacksquat April 27th, 2012 at 3:01 pm

    tomingeorgia April 27th, 2012 at 2:52 pm
    I’d just like to read something new on the subject. BAAAA!

    There is nothing new, we’ve covered it better than the sinking of the Titanic.

  183. Against All Odds April 27th, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    Would ANY PERSON here be saying, “It’s too early to judge THAT deal”??? I think not.

    —————————–

    lol You’re right about that though

  184. mick April 27th, 2012 at 3:04 pm

    I was a big supporter of Cashman until this deal
    =================================
    Would it be unreasonable to think that Hal is running this team?
    Cashman could be his puppet for all we know.
    Do you then call for Hal to sell the team?

  185. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 3:05 pm

    It will be the sinking of the Titanic if Mr Brilliant turns around and wastes elite prospects in a deal to acquire “pitching, pitching, pitching.”

    If they are allowed to hang around long enough to deal that Sanchez kid or blow up the B’s…

  186. UnKnown April 27th, 2012 at 3:05 pm

    If Nova wants the all time record for a Yankee with the most consecutive win streaks he is going to have to earn it tonight.
    Yankees might get one inning tonight where they make some noise against JV and they must cash that opportunity in and be successful in that inning in the RISP category.

  187. Rich in NJ April 27th, 2012 at 3:05 pm

    austinmac

    We’ll see, and it probably depends on how they finish this season, both in terms of playoff endpoint and an objective/subjective assessment of their starting pitching inventory.

    But unless someone steps up beyond Nova, that just leaves him and CC as reliable options for 2013, since we don’t know what Pettitte/Kuroda will do in 2013 or how they will pitch in 2012, especially the former.

    IMO, it is precisely because they will have fewer resources that it makes more sense to spend what is available on impact players.

    The loss of Pineda puts them in a real bind.

  188. hardwired7 April 27th, 2012 at 3:07 pm

    I’d settle for a no-decision for Nova tonight.

    If it’s in the bullpen’s hands the Yanks have the advantage.

  189. tomingeorgia April 27th, 2012 at 3:07 pm

    UnKnown,
    Baseball? You want to talk baseball? Are you nuts?

  190. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 3:11 pm

    The Yankees have a lot of talent in the system.

    The problem with the aging lineup was that if things don’t go right over the next two seasons, I have zero faith that they will have any kind of “long view” they’ve claimed to justify Pineda when it comes to these kids.

    We have two elite prospects who can take over at C and CF in about three years (two if everything goes swimmingly). But if they’re under fire and need a bandaid fix, do you trust them not to blow that up?

    I don’t. There’s more to losing Montero – who will crush in this league and who would have really helped the transition – than one thinks.

  191. Tackelberry April 27th, 2012 at 3:11 pm

    From Marc Craig:

    Injury update on Yankees pitching prospect Manny Banuelos: Yankees general manager Brian Cashman said that lefty Manny Banuelos is expected to be back soon for Triple-A SWB. “He’s probably about seven days away,” general manager Brian Cashman said. The 21-year-old Banuelos posted a 10.13 ERA in two starts before going on the DL two weeks ago with what Cashman called a pulled lat. He allowed 21 baserunners in 5 1/3 innings over his two starts.

  192. G. Love April 27th, 2012 at 3:11 pm

    Nova’s one of my bright spots this season. He gives me hope and he’s the one pitcher whose starts I refuse to miss.

    Don’t count him out of continuing his streak. I know it’s Verlander, but we have a pitcher every bit as confident in himself as his opponent on the mound tonight.

  193. mick April 27th, 2012 at 3:12 pm

    Would Cashman resign(sounds like rezine) if he disagreed with his boss?
    Would you?
    Maybe that’s why he used the caveat “He’s like a Cabrera.” (paraphrased forLoHud Internet lawyers).

  194. DONNYBROOK April 27th, 2012 at 3:13 pm

    There are More than just Montero and Pineda in the trade, so yes, it is too early to judge. Just like inna card game, till all the cards are dealt and revealed, NOBODY has won the pot. Seattle certainly has The Jacks to open, but the game continues and the ultimate winner is yet to be determined. Noesi certainly aint tearin’ it up as a SP.

  195. Against All Odds April 27th, 2012 at 3:13 pm

    Directly after the trade, Montero was referred to as “generational hitter

    ————————-

    That started with anyone who watched or scouted Jesus

  196. jacksquat April 27th, 2012 at 3:13 pm

    Verlander being a rhp, that means we probably see Ibanez in LF, LF in Yankee Stadium. Yech.

    And this is pretty ugly:

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/.....-verlander

  197. Benny Blanco April 27th, 2012 at 3:13 pm

    Rich,

    I’m not trying to be cynical or funny but if you had your druthers, who would you want to be the nest GM of the yankees?

    What plan does the new GM need to have in place to ensure the proper development of young starting pitchers?

    What should be his area of focus?

    I’m curious because alot of you have some vaild points against cashman. Quite frankly, I’m tired of the complaining but I’m willing to read someone’s perspective on how they would run the organization since its so easy.

  198. mick April 27th, 2012 at 3:14 pm

    We have had “great” prospects before who never lived up to the hype.
    Why will these future phenoms be any different?
    We have operated like this since inception, why is this such a shock?
    Would we have won more titles?

  199. Warning Track Power April 27th, 2012 at 3:15 pm

    My line-up would look like this today:

    Jeter SS
    Swisher RF
    Cano 2B
    ARod 3B
    Tex 1B
    Granderson CF
    Ibanez DH
    Martin C
    Nunez LF

  200. waka flocka April 27th, 2012 at 3:16 pm

    Great, Montero caught King Felix. That doesn’t negate that hes caught five games this year and is primarily DHing.

    Do I think Montero will hit at a .650 OPS all year? No. He probably won’t. But you also can’t tell me he is going to hit the way he did during his 18 game stint last year. And of course I would rather have Montero for the next several years than Ibanez. That wasn’t the point. The point was you can easily find a productive DH for cheap. You can’t find top tier pitching for cheap.

    Someone also said that the Mariners have two young, productive players on their 25 man. Have you bothered to check Noesi’s line through four starts? Hes been horrible! No one wants to mention that Campos is looking pretty good to start the year either.

    Would the Yankees probably take the deal back? Yeah. But you’re also assuming Pineda is a slam dunk to never pitch or never pitch well for the Yankees. That isn’t true.

  201. mick April 27th, 2012 at 3:19 pm

    We are all entitled to our opinions but what good are they?
    We have no power to change things, so it comes across as whining when it is repeated over and over again.
    Seriously, how can you enjoy what we have as Yankee fans?
    Would you rather be a Met or rs fan?

  202. waka flocka April 27th, 2012 at 3:19 pm

    And one more thing: if you’re going to get pissed at Cashman for a deal it should be him refusing to include Eduardo Nunez in the package to get Cliff Lee from Seattle. If he doesn’t balk at the notion of including a light hitting, poor defense playing utility man then things are a lot different in Yankeeland right now.

  203. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 27th, 2012 at 3:19 pm

    RIP Moose. So sad. What a great Yankee.

    :(

  204. Rich in NJ April 27th, 2012 at 3:19 pm

    Benny

    Andrew Friedman, and as many of TB’s scouting/development people as he can bring with him.

    Just do what he has been doing with the TB, only with the additional flexibility that a large revenue payroll offers, and not be warped by the win-now, self-defeating meme. Granted, that will also require a new mindset from the suits, but they have enough pieces in place to compete at a fairly high level now, as long as age-related declines aren’t too precipitous.

    Prospect development, which would, over time, save money and give them even more clout with their financial advantage.

  205. JobaTipsHisCap April 27th, 2012 at 3:21 pm

    I am already scared by Sat’s game

  206. mick April 27th, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    Heck some here just moan but I’d like to see them as a GM with marching orders and discrepancies between what they believe to be right and their bosses wishes.
    They can’t even answer the “tough” questions posed here.

  207. Giuseppe Franco April 27th, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    Montero catching 5 games (out of 20) thus far is on par with other backup catchers in the league.

    Nobody expected him to be the SEA everyday catcher in his first full season.

  208. mick April 27th, 2012 at 3:24 pm

    And one more thing: if you’re going to get pissed at Cashman for a deal it should be him refusing to include Eduardo Nunez in the package to get Cliff Lee from Seattle.
    ================
    Would Lee have signed a long term deal here?

  209. yankeefeminista April 27th, 2012 at 3:25 pm

    If you are going to quote small samples, in 2012 Montero has produced a 222 OPS+ from the catcher position. So, why are we quoting sss again? And Campos is in A- ball and looks “pretty good” while Sanchez and Mason Williams are in A- ball, therefore it is too early to count them? I hope they are all future Yankee studs, but stop with the double standard.

  210. luis April 27th, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    Hi guys,

    Posting in the BB is a nightmare!…About those poster that think that the Pro Montero faction hasn’t won the trade and time will be the final juror….

    First, no one here wants to “win” the final result. We are Yankee fans that first and foremost want our team to do well.

    Second, The trade was lost the moment it was made. It was a fundamental blunder of decision making and asset management. The fact that Pineda got hurt just makes it even worse.

    So please stop your patience approach, because the only way they can come up winning this thing is that the B’s, Marshall and DePaula flop. Then that Pineda becomes an ace and Campos becomes very good as well. Even if this crazy scenario materializes, they would have been lucky.

    JAP,

    I meant as joke. No snark comment meant by it.

  211. Warning Track Power April 27th, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    Will the Yankees continue to carry 13 pitchers this weekend or will the team
    make a move to add another OF before the game tonight?

  212. mick April 27th, 2012 at 3:27 pm

    Will the Yankees continue to carry 13 pitchers
    =======================
    never have ’nuff pitching.

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  215. yankeefeminista April 27th, 2012 at 3:30 pm

    FTR, Cliff Lee is on the DL with a left oblique injury… the Phillies have no idea when he will be back… Playoff stats: 2010 WS 6.94 ERA and the 2011 playoff 7.50 ERA

  216. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    waka flocka April 27th, 2012 at 3:16 pm
    Great, Montero caught King Felix. That doesn’t negate that hes caught five games this year and is primarily DHing.

    Do I think Montero will hit at a .650 OPS all year? No. He probably won’t. But you also can’t tell me he is going to hit the way he did during his 18 game stint last year. And of course I would rather have Montero for the next several years than Ibanez. That wasn’t the point. The point was you can easily find a productive DH for cheap. You can’t find top tier pitching for cheap.

    Someone also said that the Mariners have two young, productive players on their 25 man. Have you bothered to check Noesi’s line through four starts? Hes been horrible! No one wants to mention that Campos is looking pretty good to start the year either.

    Would the Yankees probably take the deal back? Yeah. But you’re also assuming Pineda is a slam dunk to never pitch or never pitch well for the Yankees. That isn’t true.
    ///

    Montero had a nice start to his Yankee career. He’s made for the Stadium. The kid said “this is my house,” and then he put up a 1.4 OPS in “his” house. He likes the big spot. He didn’t luck into hitting well. Pitchers wanted nothing to do with a baby. His OPS overall last year was what – .996?

    If you ask me which I think is closer to what Montero will do when he’s finished: a Franciso Cervelli-esque.650 OPS (interestingly, almost identical to Martin’s .652 OPS last season) or a Manny Ramirez career OPS of .996, I’m going to say the latter.

    No one cares about giving up a .650 OPS catcher/DH, and since you admit that’s probably not in the cards, you also admit you were just using it for artificial effect.

    Noesi did a nice job for the Yankees last season and at least has a pulse. He also teamed up with Montero for a W. Campos is in A-ball. He’s not getting called up any time soon.

  217. luis April 27th, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    YF,

    I would have never trade Montero for Lee, even if he was willing to sign an extension.

  218. yankeefeminista April 27th, 2012 at 3:32 pm

    luis, +1

  219. Benny Blanco April 27th, 2012 at 3:36 pm

    “Analysis Paralysis”

    What time does the game start? **sarcasm**

    Ok, we get it. Seattle won the trade even though that team will NEVER EVER sniff the postseason this year or the next, or the year after that.

    Noesi is healthy pitching to a healthy 8 era.

  220. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 3:38 pm

    luis April 27th, 2012 at 3:31 pm
    YF,

    I would have never trade Montero for Lee, even if he was willing to sign an extension.
    ///

    Nor I.

  221. jacksquat April 27th, 2012 at 3:38 pm

    YankeesPR Yankees 4/27 lineup vs. DET: Jeter SS, Granderson CF, Rodriguez DH, Cano 2B, Teixeira 1B, Swisher RF, Ibanez LF, Chavez 3B, Martin C, Nova P

  222. luis April 27th, 2012 at 3:38 pm

    Later guys, i’ll try to join the game thread or the pregame one. Got a dinner with soemguys that like to dine real late.

  223. Against All Odds April 27th, 2012 at 3:38 pm

    Cashman could be his puppet for all we know.

    ———————-

    Based on what? Cash has been talking about lowering the payroll before even become the face of the franchise.

  224. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    luis,

    Have a good one. I’m going to see Dellin in Lehigh Valley tonight. I’ll keep tabs on the Vato on my ride home.

  225. Warning Track Power April 27th, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    YankeesPR Yankees 4/27 lineup vs. DET: Jeter SS, Granderson CF, Rodriguez DH, Cano 2B, Teixeira 1B, Swisher RF, Ibanez LF, Chavez 3B, Martin C, Nova P
    ************************************************************************

    I can live with this line-up.
    Chavez is hitting the ball well and can give ARod a 1/2 day off.

    Ibanez is left worries me, but nothing team can do about that until Gardner returns.

  226. J. Alfred Prufrock April 27th, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    When do we get Gardner back? This Ibanez in LF is a nightmare.

  227. tomingeorgia April 27th, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    luis,
    My favorite restaurant in Madrid was a Galician seafood place. Very elegant, and way too much food to eat quickly. Then, back at the hotel bar, the Jefe dared me to have a shot of pale green apple brandy, whose name I have forgotten. Apple-flavored turpentine, but really good after the first one had killed the tastebuds. The locals were betting against me, but applauded every following shot. Massive hangover in the morning, but it was Sunday. No harm, no foul.

  228. Against All Odds April 27th, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    We have had “great” prospects before who never lived up to the hype.
    Why will these future phenoms be any different?
    We have operated like this since inception, why is this such a shock?

    ———————-

    Problem is they have to live up to the hype now because they can no longer out spend their problems. Or should I say they no longer want to out spend their problems.

  229. luis April 27th, 2012 at 3:42 pm

    Benny,

    You are missing the point. I don’t give a rats a.s what the M’s accomplish from here on out. I care that the FO made a monumental mistake. I don’t trust those guys to keep us competitive in the long run. They have no clue about what made this team so great and IMO are very poor guardians of the team legacy.

  230. Hassey April 27th, 2012 at 3:42 pm

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    Drunk words are sober thoughts…

  231. waka flocka April 27th, 2012 at 3:42 pm

    Look, I am not a Montero hater. I think he is going to be a productive big leaguer. I am arguing the notion that this trade is lopsided because Pineda is going to miss a year. People are automatically assuming that he is a bust. You can’t automatically say Pineda is never going to contribute.

    And you guys can go on and on all you want about Montero’s catching abilities. Its still not going to change that almost every scouting report on him is that he will not stick at catcher. The Yankees were the only team saying he could catch and them trading him is a great indicator that it was b.s.

  232. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 27th, 2012 at 3:43 pm

    I too am tired about hearing about Montero, but more because of the venom and nastiness toward anyone who disagrees rather than hearing updates.

    YF, I will say that both you and Shame have done a really good job of being objective about it or trying to be fair about it. I think rich has too, and I’m sure there are others who have also. But then there are some posters who have been nothing but surly in their posts and seem to enjoy taking shots at other people or their posts, when those people may not agree. That’s why I referred to the laurel and hardy of the forum. Because it seems that other people’s posts of disagreement have become nothing more than fodder for ridicule or a tagline for a wink or a joke.

    I’m tired of the railing and the nastiness about the trade. I truly appreciate the restraint and have even more respect for that. NOBODY has a corner on truth here, but to read some of the posts, you’d think that certain posters have the answers down pat and anyone who disagrees are obviously “sheep” or kool aid drinkers.

    YF, after reading your post, I will say my heart goes out to you. I have so much respect for you and your position and so much respect for the way you have handled this thing, despite what you’ve been feeling. I’m sure it hasn’t been easy for you. And I’m sad for you that it happened. Truth. I went through that once and vowed never to go through it again. It’s much too painful, and you’re out of choices in the end. But thanks for the objectivity and restraint. Kudos to you for being able to do that under the circumstances. I know you’ve spent a lot of time watching over the minors.

    ************

    “I agree. The suppression only comes from one side, for obvious reasons, but I was, in part, trying to suggest why. Some fans need to believe that their team is run well.”

    rich, I think you give some of us too little credit. There are a group of us here who love Montero, wanted him on the Yankees, thought he’d be here forever, were really upset when we heard he was traded, but still believe it was the right move (and still do despite what has happened to Pineda). It has nothing to do with needing to believe anything. And I think it’s demeaning to suggest that we can’t process things for ourselves.

    ***************

    I don’t need to have anything jammed down my throat. I’ve given my position on the topic but I don’t believe I have done it in such a way as to make anyone think that their perspective otherwise is utterly stupid and ridiculous and they obviously don’t know what in hell they’re talking about, and if they aren’t in line with the trade there’s something wrong with them and their thinking. But the vehemence in some of the posts against the trade definitely suggest that type of thing to those of us are not in agreement with their perspective.

  233. DONNYBROOK April 27th, 2012 at 3:43 pm

    I would do Montero for Lee. Lee and Sabathia’s wife were home shopping Before the deal fell through, making me believe Lee woulda long-termed with the Yanks. Cashman clearly got “played” in the Lee negotiations with Jack Z. Jack Z got an offer outta Cashman, shopped that offer around MLB, and decided he preferred Texas’s Smoak. Cashman can Only hang is hat on the Swish deal. To me, getting Grandy is Still up in the air.

  234. luis April 27th, 2012 at 3:45 pm

    Tom,

    Is called “Orujo”. It is a very good after meal drink, but very dangerous if you drink more than one. The hangover it produces is deadly!.

    JAP,

    I’ll try to watch some part of the Betances game as well. Take care my friend and drive safely!

  235. luis April 27th, 2012 at 3:50 pm

    Trisha,

    If i have been something is very fair on my posts. I have been very respectful to those that don’t agree with me. I don’t take swipes at people that don’t agree with me, i take swipes at the FO. About my Laurel and Hardy remark, it was meant as a joke, not a snark comment to your comment. If i offended you for that joke please accept my apologies. GN

  236. tomingeorgia April 27th, 2012 at 3:51 pm

    luis,
    Orujo! How could I forget. Well, after all the brain cells that stuff killed, maybe it’s understandable.

  237. sammiejohnson April 27th, 2012 at 3:59 pm

    Not trying to take sides in this trade debate, but I find it interesting that the Mariners’ official roster doesn’t even list Montero as a catcher, but simply as a DH. Not earth-shattering, but interesting.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/team/roster_active.jsp?c_id=sea

  238. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 27th, 2012 at 4:01 pm

    luis, I’d be lying to say that you have been anything but fair. I think that after the trade, things started to take on a life of their own and your upset over it may have made it easier for you to bond with like-minded and sometimes share “moments” that some other of us may have misunderstood or misinterpreted. It’s been just a little of a departure from your usual posting style, but then again, you hadn’t been confronted with something that had such a profound effect. I don’t believe that you are either a strident or nasty individual by nature.

    I’m sad for you too. I think my way of dealing with upsetting events is to put them into some kind of perspective that makes sense to me and then move on. But that isn’t everyone’s experience nor everyone’s way of dealing. And I have to understand and respect that. And I do.

    We just have to keep hoping for the best. It’s all we have.

  239. tomingeorgia April 27th, 2012 at 4:03 pm

    trisha,
    Nicely put.

  240. tomingeorgia April 27th, 2012 at 4:06 pm

    trisha,
    There is room in the Foreign Service for you.

  241. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 27th, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    Tom, thank you!

    :)

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    I hope the Yankees would go get someone like Hamels if and when the need arises. Hopefully, they understand the cash cow depends upon winning. I just have my doubts they will vary from the magic $189M.

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