The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Jeter at DH

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Apr 28, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Derek Jeter DH
Nick Swisher RF
Robinson Cano 2B
Alex Rodriguez 3B
Mark Teixeira 1B
Curtis Granderson CF
Andruw Jones LF
Russell Martin C
Eduardo Nunez SS

RHP Freddy Garcia

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97 Responses to “Jeter at DH”

  1. jmv April 28th, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    We all want Phil in AAA. Doesn’t matter what pitch he has to learn, just something that keep batters from sitting in his FB

  2. J. Alfred Prufrock April 28th, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    I don’t believe in the magic bullet of “one more start” for Hughes.

    If he’s on with FB location and change, he can win a game for the Yankees; nothing magic about it. But, he hasn’t come far enough with the third pitch to just assume the next outing, if it’s good, precludes having to develop one. The need for a third pitch will remain.

    For once in their lives, they need to do this right – by the player, and by their own little battle cry of “pitching wins.” Yeah? Let’s see you dirty your hands and put your money where your mouth is. You just wasted the best bat in your system for a “big” arm – how about actually doing something about one you’ve got who’s healthy in exchange for your unctuous lip service. Who knows: maybe if you right the ship and develop some of the arms that you’ve collected here, you won’t be gifting Gary Sanchez to some slick West Coast team on the take.

    Send Hughes down. He might find something rapidly, since there is already the huge positive of arm strength regained and a commitment to throw his change.

    The rotation is fine, with C, Nova, Kuroda and Phelps, if they’d just put Garcia in a long role. Phelps can handle a fifth spot, certainly until Andy arrives. The ERA stuff is a joke; it’s early, some guys are still rounding into pitching shape, and it’s been very cold.

    If they send Hughes to Tampa, that’s one more arm that may be able to deliver down the road. Get him back in the lab and stop running to stand still on him.

  3. Niblick April 28th, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    J A P – you are way too rational for the Yankees (not to mention this site).

  4. PacoDooley April 28th, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    How many more starts a a Yankee for Freddie?

  5. J. Alfred Prufrock April 28th, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    Nib,

    I hope not. Hey, “pitching wins” is their own mantra. They’ve got the arms. How about they let the pitching mentors they’ve hired in the system earn their money.

  6. jmv April 28th, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    JAP,

    The problem is that, for some unknown (and ilogical to me) reason, Phelps won’t be alllowed to start. So we’ll have to wait for Andy. We can only hope that, when Andy comes, Phil be ready to be sent to AAA

  7. J. Alfred Prufrock April 28th, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    May Freddy have a similar start to his ALDS effort against Detroit last postseason.

    People will forget, he did his best to hold us in at 2-2, but the offense couldn’t take advantage. I still want Freddy as the long guy, but he did a decent job and it gets overlooked. I’d rather give the No. 5 spot to a developing, promising arm, like Phelps, Mitchell, or even Hughes if he can get down to business in Tampa and come back a 3-pitch guy. But I appreciated Freddy’s toughness in that outing. Winning isn’t everything, at least if you lose, good effort shouldn’t be dismissed, and he kept trying to give us that chance.

  8. jmv April 28th, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    Of course. Freddy is on the 25-man roster or moved. Young (or middle-age) arms? Always can learn something, just can’t do it throwing batting practice to major leaguers

  9. J. Alfred Prufrock April 28th, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    jmv,

    Frustrating, isn’t it? They have this idea that they’re better off going with a “seasoned veteran.”

    I understand it, although I don’t endorse it, when you’ve got a rawer guy, but Phelps is pretty slick. He’s not a guy I’d want as my 1 or 2, but I think mid to back-end, he’s shown enough to get a real chance.

    All this hot air about pitching, and now the luxury tax: let’s see them turn within and give these kids a shot. I hope to see DJ pitch tomorrow in Lehigh Valley. Mitchell really looks ready to take the next step.

    Betances last night in LHV was wild at times and could not get a consistent feel on his curveball (sailed more than broke) but I liked, even more than when he’s blowing guys away, that he battled and survived, had to pitch from the stretch (after loading the bases – all on BBs). Aldred came out at one point, when he was really collapsing on his back leg a lot, and I was thinking “DON’T baby him: make him cope here” and they left him in. He battled and got out clean. Threw a lot of pitches, walked too many, but when he had to throw that get out of dodge pitch, he dug down and did it. That’s what these kids need: to be allowed to “fail” and then learn to succeed.

  10. Rich in NJ April 28th, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    “Send Hughes down. He might find something rapidly, since there is already the huge positive of arm strength regained and a commitment to throw his change.”

    The Yankees have quickly gone from too many to perhaps too few starters. One would think that would cause them to depart from their questionable starter-to-pen reflexive thinking oward a more flexible approach that would allow Phelps and/or Mitchell to start and then to demote Hughes for one last chance at development and instruction to reach whatever ceiling remains. His improved FB requires that they do that.

  11. CashmanLovesPsychoHookers April 28th, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    Quote from Brian Cashman: “I just hope everyone understands that every move I make is to improve this club, not hurt it.”
    ==============================
    Hey, Brian. Nobody believes you are INTENTIONALLY making bad moves that haunt this team for years and years and years…

    Nobody thinks you’re TRYING to destroy the franchise. Even I recognize that you’re doing the best you can… You’re just a f*cking MORON!

  12. tucker April 28th, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    I suppose I am on board with sending Hughes down when Andy returns. There is no real place for him in the bullpen.

    The talk is that he needs to improve his secondary pitches. Though I would like to see a little more feel and variation to his fastball, too. Right now, it sits 92 and is straight as an arrow. Might as well put a pitching machine on the mound. There is a big difference between a 95 or 96 mph fastball and a 92 mph fastball, which frankly is pretty average. It would be nice if Hughes would have enough feel for the fastball where he could take it down to 90 then up to 93 or 94. Right now, it’s usually 92 and no movement — very easy for a MLB hitter to time and crush.

  13. MTU April 28th, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    JAP/Rich-

    I’m with you guys.

    Just think the Yankees are.

  14. MTU April 28th, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    edit :

    Just don’t think.

    sorry.

  15. J. Alfred Prufrock April 28th, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    Rich, one would think. Well, here it is: let’s see it.

    They can’t go on forever giving up projectable position bats for someone else’s arms. There’s danger that way, as they’ve foolishly discovered.

    I’m sorry to miss C tomorrow, but I really need to see for myself what DJ’s looking like. Fortunately, he’s supposed to get some good weather to work with. What I’ve seen just on video, and in ST, his time has come to get a look.

  16. MTU April 28th, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    JAP-

    Would like to hear your impressions on Mitchell after you see him live.

    TIA

  17. CashmanLovesPsychoHookers April 28th, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    Good news: Jesus Montero homered again yesterday… And against an AL East opponent, the Toronto Blue Jays.

    Bad news: The Yankees weren’t playing the Blue Jays yesterday.

    Worst news: Brian Cashman is STILL the GM of the New York Yankees.

  18. jmv April 28th, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    It’s not only that Hughes doesn’t have secondary pitches. He doesn’t even try. Simply doesn’t trust them. There is an interesting post in The Yankee Analysts that states that Hughes throws a FB 67 % of the time with two strikes in the count, even if he is ahead on the count. Every single pitcher in MLB goes to secondary pitches when is ahead. More bizarre, read this quote: “In his four starts of the 2012 season, Phil Hughes‘ best offspeed pitch has been his changeup, yet with 89 two strike counts in his favor, he’s thrown only 3 changeups. “

  19. Tank April 28th, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    Cashman’s comments yesterday were funny – basically talking as if he has already given up on Pineda and apologizing for making the trade and hoping people would forgive him/understand his perspective. Normally Cashman is defensive and delusional in his public comments, yesterday he sounded somber and apologetic to the fans.

    not a surprise though – publicly, he never sounded euphoric over Pineda or talked about him with conviction.
    The night the trade was mde he told Klapisch that he took an “enormous risk” making the deal because Montero “is Piazza/Cabrera”. Then all spring he kept talking about how Pineda has a lot of work ahead of him, development-wise, and it is not a given that he develops a CU and the trade will “look bad” if Pineda doesn’t get a Change-up. If I recall, he was also pretty outspoken about his velocity in the spring

    The guy is just clueless.

  20. J. Alfred Prufrock April 28th, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    MTU April 28th, 2012 at 1:00 pm
    JAP-

    Would like to hear your impressions on Mitchell after you see him live.

    TIA
    ///

    Happy to. Yankeefem has been high on Mitchell for a couple years now. She thought with his sinker and his ever-moving secondary stuff, he was being highly overlooked. I really love guys who induce groundballs and now he’s getting swings and misses, too. Have not seen him live yet, however. Really looking forward to it.

  21. jmv April 28th, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    JAP

    I’ll be waiting for your report, too. The underdogs are going to save the day

  22. J. Alfred Prufrock April 28th, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    Montero was 2 for 5. I expect him to take off soon. Getting his bearings, getting to catch, and he did have a stubborn stomach virus that lingered that might have robbed him of having his legs under him at the plate. His wrist strength is phenomenal, though. All 3 homers have gone to CF, not RF. I’m looking forward to rooting him in in his career, which will be a special one. Sad he won’t be doing it in pinstripes, but nevertheless, we raised him, and he still has my heart and my support.

  23. tucker April 28th, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    JMV, the problem is Hughes fastball really isn’t an elite pitch. Some pitchers have the ability to blow a fastball by a hitter with two strikes. Hughes does not. It’s 92 and on occasion touches 93. Every now and then, a batter will miss Hughes’ high fastball if it’s up in the zone. But it’s hard to fool a batter when they know a 92 mph fastball is coming. There is no deception and no feel.

  24. ron April 28th, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    We don’t know phelps won’t be allowed to start.
    If things get bad enough,he might.

    I would give betances,and banuelos a start,if needed.

  25. Rich in NJ April 28th, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    Cashman appears to be extremely shaken. He realizes that this can be a career defining move. He said he was taking a big risk (imo, in the hope of hitting a grand slam HR), and instead he got beaned in the head.

    In his defense (not that it should matter for his job security), he has always been a fairly candid guy. He messed up royally, and now he is admitting it.

  26. jmv April 28th, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    Tucker,

    That brings more to the point. Why to challenge a batter with a so-so FB when he is ahead in the count?

  27. Betsy April 28th, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    It’s Cashman’s own fault .I was ok with the trade, but he had NO business allowing Pineda to push himself just so he could make the team. That comes down to a REALLY bad decision. He should not apologize for the trade; he should apologize for his gross incompetence – his and Girardi’s. I don’t have any doubts that Pineda pushing himself at the behest of management caused this injury. A weak shoulder would have gone away with proper rest – he’s just another kid having to deal with the usual innings issues. Too bad he’s in the hands of fools.

  28. Giuseppe Franco April 28th, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    Brett Gardner is going to hit in the cage today. Doctor told him to test the elbow and see how it feels. #Yankees

    ————

    Despite his detractors, Gardner can’t come back soon enough.

  29. Rich in NJ April 28th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    “Some pitchers have the ability to blow a fastball by a hitter with two strikes. Hughes does not.”

    He does when it has late life and he hits his spot. That increases his margin for error, but it is a plus fastball at times. His biggest problem with his FB is consistent command, unlike last year when it was just a bad pitch. He can improve that

  30. J. Alfred Prufrock April 28th, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    Another nice thing about yesterday’s game at LHV was Laird had like a 10-pitch AB where he really laid off Hyatt’s soft offerings and worked a nice BB. Last time I saw him face Hyatt, he was dribbling curveballs to infielders. Laird does make solid contact when he gets his pitch. He had that good AB to work the BB with two outs and then the catcher hit the ball out to give Betances a lead he and the BP never gave back.

  31. Betsy April 28th, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    The only pitch that Phil really trusts or likes is his FB, which is good…………but he just doesn’t throw that hard anymore, if he ever really did. This is one big reason why it appears he’s truly best suited for the pen. He doesn’t have the mentality of a starter.

  32. jmv April 28th, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    We all want Phelps to get a shot at starting. ManBan and Betances don’t seem to be ready yet

  33. MTU April 28th, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    jmv-

    Special treat for you for bein’ a good guy.

    Last night’s photo shoot.

    https://picasaweb.google.com/109721757058432487394/CaveKnoll?authkey=Gv1sRgCNvg8Mv-wZzLwgE#

    enjoy.

    :)

  34. ctyankeefan. April 28th, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    Pineda should be pushing himself to get into the rotation and get better, unless he was hurt. If he really was hurt its on him for not letting anyone know and playing through it. If he doesn’t see that then its just immaturity on his part.

  35. J. Alfred Prufrock April 28th, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    I don’t really see Hughes throwing a “flat” fb. For the most part, it has some late jump and he’s always had that feature to his fb. His location has been off lately. Hughes’ fastball, when he’s striding out and on top, has been really good. He just has to mix it up more to keep hitters off it. He’s got some work to do; let him do it, Cashman.

  36. CashmanLovesPsychoHookers April 28th, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    Betsy, Pineda was hurt when he got here. He wasn’t right in his final start last season and he was never right from the word go when he showed up in spring training.

  37. Rich in NJ April 28th, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    That’s not true. Hughes’ FB is the same velo by and large at it was in when he came up on May 1, 2007:

    http://www.brooksbaseball.net/.....revDate=51

  38. Betsy April 28th, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    I’m not about to argue with someone with a name like that, so let’s just agree to disagree

  39. Rich in NJ April 28th, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    “If he doesn’t see that then its just immaturity on his part.”

    What 23 year old not named Derek Jeter isn’t immature?

    His level of maturity is irrelevant. It was obvious to everyone after his second or third ST start that something was wrong given his velo.

  40. tucker April 28th, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    Jmv, right. I think there has been this myth that Hughes has a tremendous fastball, and really, it’s not that great. He has some deception with his short arm action, but 92 is 92 — not really that great. Even if he was sent to the pen, he won’t succeed with that fastball unless his curve or change improve. I doubt he can dial it up to 95 or 96 like he was able to do in 2009. He belongs in the minors to work on his secondary pitches and his feel w/the fastball.

  41. J. Alfred Prufrock April 28th, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    The kid was told to air it out when he should not have been pushed. He hurt himself as a result, because of their insecure need to “show” the world his optimal fastball in a ST game. That’s not the kid’s fault. Really, possibly even worse than losing Montero is the idea that they may have bullied Pineda into ruining his own career to prove to the world they didn’t make a mistake. At least Montero is playing baseball and healthy. How much money might Pineda stand to lose, if he has no shot to be himself again? As hard as it is to live without Montero in pinstripes (and it’s killin’ me), if the Yankees have ruined Pineda through recklessness, that is even harder to take. He gets a bead on the rosary.

  42. jmv April 28th, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    MTU,

    Just a big WHOA. Stunning. Who’s the little kid sitting by the water?

  43. Rich in NJ April 28th, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    The biggest problem with Hughes’ FB, by far, is that hitters know it’s coming because he has nothing else.

  44. UnKnown April 28th, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    The Chief just needs to keep them in the game to an extent today. Getting chased in the first 3 innings isn’t going to work.

  45. Rich in NJ April 28th, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    “That brings more to the point. Why to challenge a batter with a so-so FB when he is ahead in the count?”

    Because it’s all he has!

  46. Rich in NJ April 28th, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    And it’s not so-so at all.

  47. ron April 28th, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    Hughes throws hard enough,and has some of the highest s&m % in the game.

    Problem is,his fb is straight,and middle of the plate,and up.
    Hitters foul it off til a mistake is made,and it is not easy too get a ground ball on a high fb,wich hughes loves too throw.

    He needs too throw lower,and get his cb,and change going.

  48. Betsy April 28th, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    Rich, then I have to think Blake’s supposition from a few weeks ago is correct: that Phil dominated ML hitters based almost solely on his FB. Perhaps that fooled scouts into thinking he was a super prospect because a one trick pony can’t exist for long in the majors. I still have no idea how a pitcher just completely loses the feel for a pitch, unless it’s because he picked up the curve in the Yankee system and did not throw it earlier in his career.

  49. CashmanLovesPsychoHookers April 28th, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    The problem with Huges is FAR greater than pitch quality or selection… He is VERY fragile, mentally. Physically, too, but that’s less of a problem.

    Hughes’ pure “stuff” is good enough to win in the major leagues… Plenty of guys have had fine careers with less.

    But I have NEVER seen a major league player who needs more propping up, emotionally, than Phil Hughes does… The guy changes his secondary pitches about every other month. The slider needed to be changed to an overhand curve, which needed to be changed to a knuckle curve, which needed to be changed BACK to the overhand curve, which needed to be changed to a cutter…

    He goes from I need to throw my cutter and changeup more to I threw my cutter and changeup too much and need to rely on my fastball more… The guys is ridiculous.

    If everything, and I mean EVERY SINGLE THING (A+ command, A+ stuff, defense behind him, weather, etc…) doesn’t go EXACTLY right, the guy can’t even compete, and he starts scrambling for excuses and “fixes,” which means it’s time to change pitches/selection again.

    Phil Hughes is mentally weak. All his problems stem from that.

  50. J. Alfred Prufrock April 28th, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    His level of maturity is irrelevant. It was obvious to everyone after his second or third ST start that something was wrong given his velo.
    ///

    I agree. I forget who the batter was now, but he had a ridiculous battle against someone where he was just so thoroughly uncomfortable. Go and get him, go and get him, I said. They just sat on their hands. SMH.

  51. Rich in NJ April 28th, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    “Rich, then I have to think Blake’s supposition from a few weeks ago is correct: that Phil dominated ML hitters based almost solely on his FB.”

    Do you mean minor or major league?

    If it’s minor league, he had three good pitches until 2007: FB, curve, and change.

  52. Betsy April 28th, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    JAlfred, that’s what ticks me off. It’s Pineda’s career and he’s got one shot at it – like all athletes. We might be pissed off (or not) for whatever reason, but as it affects our life, it doesn’t. Pineda’s career has been completely altered because not one person in the organization stopped to think “hey, this might be wrong”. I already didn’t like Girardi as manager, but when he made that “this is a big start for Pineda” comment in ST, that was it.

  53. jmv April 28th, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    “Rich in NJ April 28th, 2012 at 1:25 pm
    And it’s not so-so at all.”

    —————————————————-

    Better or worse?

  54. LGY April 28th, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    tucker April 28th, 2012 at 1:11 pm
    JMV, the problem is Hughes fastball really isn’t an elite pitch. Some pitchers have the ability to blow a fastball by a hitter with two strikes. Hughes does not. It’s 92 and on occasion touches 93. Every now and then, a batter will miss Hughes’ high fastball if it’s up in the zone. But it’s hard to fool a batter when they know a 92 mph fastball is coming. There is no deception and no feel.

    ———-

    Hughes has one of the highest swinging strike percentages on his fastball in MLB.

    Higher percentage than guys like Verlander, Price, Strasburg, CC.

  55. J. Alfred Prufrock April 28th, 2012 at 1:29 pm

    Gotta disagree. Hughes has a really good fastball. Time to move locations.

    Have a good one, all. Here’s hoping we get Steady Freddy today.

  56. Rich in NJ April 28th, 2012 at 1:29 pm

    “I agree. I forget who the batter was now, but he had a ridiculous battle against someone where he was just so thoroughly uncomfortable. Go and get him, go and get him, I said. They just sat on their hands. SMH.”

    It certainly seems like they were willfully blind because they wanted to believe that he would just suddenly turn into the pitcher they thought they were getting.

    We don’t know what they said in private, but publicly, Girardi basically chided people for asking so much about velo.

  57. ctyankeefan. April 28th, 2012 at 1:29 pm

    Was it obvious something was wrong? Players after throwing a ton of innings in ST can have a lower velocity. I dont think it was obvious until the last ST game he pitched that something was really wrong because his mechanics were way off. He was still very effective until that game.

  58. MTU April 28th, 2012 at 1:29 pm

    jmv-

    Actually he is a rather large Man. One of my friends who went along.

    Thought he looked kinda cool siting there w the black shirt.

    Nice prop, huh ?

    Glad you enjoyed them.

    :)

  59. Rich in NJ April 28th, 2012 at 1:29 pm

    jmv

    Much better. See LGY’s post.

  60. J. Alfred Prufrock April 28th, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    Betsy,

    Maybe he beats the odds. He’s young and otherwise healthy. I got him on my prayer list.

    Later.

  61. Betsy April 28th, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    Rich, minors……………

    Well, perhaps the injury changed the trajectory of his career, but then again, Phil didn’t suffer any arm or finger injuries. The fact that he can’t throw the curve at all now is just a fact of life……….He’s never shown any confidence in the change (witness ST 2010 and then the regular season) and he’s not overall a terrifically smart pitcher on the mound. Even if you send him down to low minors to get physically rebuilt in terms of mechanics, you can’t teach someone the intangibles needed to pitch. You can’t teach them confidence, for instance. There’s only so much a team can do and then the player is on his own.

  62. ctyankeefan. April 28th, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    Sorry, I meant throwing a ton of inning the previous year, and it being ST.

  63. Rich in NJ April 28th, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    “Was it obvious something was wrong?”

    He’s 23, and he goes from 95 or so to 90 or so. If they wanted to attribute it to a ton of innings, what did they trade for him when they did? They could have waited until ST when his velo was way down and gotten a discount.

  64. jmv April 28th, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    LGY,

    If that’s the case, is only a problem of location, right? But the main point is that every batter in MLB knows that, with two strikes, a FB is coming. That leaves you no margin for error.

  65. ron April 28th, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    Hughes was a good pitcher with mainly a fb,and curve.
    He has his fb,but his curve is gone.

    You are not going to win throwing straight,high fb,trying too strike everyone out.

    Imo,hughes thinks,or thought, if he can pinpoint every pitch,and put it where he want’s too,he will be ok.

    Hughes just has to pitch.
    Throw the best curve,change,etc… he can.Just play catch with the catcher.

    Yes,every pitch should have a purpose,but hughes has to stop trying too be too perfect.

  66. Betsy April 28th, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    JAlfred, I hope so…….for his sake. I will not concede as some have that his career is over or that he will never throw hard again, but it’s still depressing.

  67. versonine April 28th, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    Why do the Yankees put out the lineups so early?

  68. versonine April 28th, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    Betsy, he may succeed with another team, but his Yankees career is over, just like Wang, just like Phil, Joba, IPK.

  69. jmv April 28th, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    MTU,

    Did really enjoyed them. Can I get some advise from you about a SLR?

  70. jmv April 28th, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    Did really ENJOY, I meant

  71. Rich in NJ April 28th, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    “The fact that he can’t throw the curve at all now is just a fact of life……”

    But not necessarily an immutable one.

    They need starters. Why throw one away who still has a chance to be a good one?

  72. MTU April 28th, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    jmv-

    Pass your e-mail onto Chad and we’ll discuss it off the board.

    OK ?

  73. ron April 28th, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    It kills me because hughes was toying with hitters,with a great curve,and some of his changeups looked nasty this year.

    He just throws the wrong pitches in the wrong counts,and does not throw his curveball,and change with enough confidence,and needs possitive results with his offspeed pitches.

    Just throw the pitch,and not worry about splitting hairs.

  74. blake April 28th, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    “If it’s minor league, he had three good pitches until 2007: FB, curve, and change.’

    I think it was better then…..but how good was his curveball really?…..in reality was it THAT much better than it is now….or was his fastball (which is very very good) simply so overwhelming to minor leaguers that it made his offspeed stuff more effective then……I didn’t see Hughes pitch enough in the minors to say…..all we have to go on is scouting reports from scouts which IMO half of them have no idea what they are talking about.

    I think throwing many cutters has affected him as well…..who knows…..but he needs a better breaking ball, slider or split to be a big league starter……Verlander himself couldn’t throw 4 seamers exclusively and be successful….

  75. Rich in NJ April 28th, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    “He just throws the wrong pitches in the wrong counts”

    I don’t think that’s true, but if so, isn’t it on Martin?

  76. Betsy April 28th, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    Rich, I’m not sure they think he can be a good one, though……On the other hand, I suppose they don’t have anything to lose.

  77. ron April 28th, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    What i don’t understand is,why not get a pitching coach that fixes these pitching problems.

    Girardi,and cashman are not developing any ml pitchers,once they make it too the bigs.
    Where is the yankees pitching coach?
    Why is hughes not developing his change or curve?

    Make it happen!!!!

  78. Betsy April 28th, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    As good of a game as that Texas 2007 game was, it was still just one game. Every pitcher, even the worst, has games when they are just “on”.

  79. jmv April 28th, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    Thanks a lot, MTU

  80. MTU April 28th, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    jmv-

    Con mucho gusto.

    ;)

  81. Rich in NJ April 28th, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    blake

    Take a look at the link from Brooks Baseball that I posted above from that night in 2007 with this link from his last start:

    http://www.brooksbaseball.net/.....evDate=425

  82. CashmanLovesPsychoHookers April 28th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    Was it obvious something was wrong (with Pineda)?

    You don’t lose your fastball OVERNIGHT because of an innings count… In fact, the velocity is the LAST thing to go… You lose command.

    Even Cashman says there was no gradual loss of velocity in the second half and the ONLY time Pineda lost significant velocity was in ONE START… his LAST one. But that’s not enough of a red flag for Cashman… Nor is that fact that right after that sudden loss of velocity the Mariners were suddenly, for the first time ever, willing to talk about trading the kid.

    Moreover, Pineda showed up to spring training with a lower arm angle than he had previously, to go along with an 89mph fastball. There is NO clearer sign that “something is wrong” with a pitcher’s shoulder than that.

  83. blake April 28th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    Rich,

    Can you give me a summary…..im on my phone and can’t get the link well.

  84. Tank April 28th, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    Rothschild hasn’t been the miracle worker he was made out to be. Did nothing with AJ. Nothing with Hughes. Nova developed because of his work in the minors refining his slider.

    Not to mention, not even a mound visit from him during the infamous shoulder flying open Pineda performance that night in ST…

  85. versonine April 28th, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    MTU, you seem like a calm positive individual. Im having a rough time, you mind if I email you? I already have your email so thats not a problem (You have the same surname as a famous Oscar winning actor)

  86. jmv April 28th, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    mmmmm… where is the “send email to Chad” button?

  87. versonine April 28th, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    jmv, you email Chad at cjennings@lohud.com

  88. ctyankeefan. April 28th, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    89mph? I saw up to 94mph. If I remember right he was averaging about 92 or 93. Anyways, having a screen name such as yours warrants no debating with you. Very juvenile. That is all Im going to say in response with anything else you post.

  89. jmv April 28th, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    Thanks, versonine

  90. Against All Odds April 28th, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    They need starters. Why throw one away who still has a chance to be a good one?
    —————————–

    Not exactly throwing him away though.

  91. blake April 28th, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    “Rothschild hasn’t been the miracle worker he was made out to be. Did nothing with AJ. Nothing with Hughes.”

    He did a pretty amazing job last year getting what they got out of that rotation….and Sabathia pretty much immediately started striking out more guys…….nobody can just make Hughes have better secondary pitches….I don’t see Rothschild as the problem
    …he’s pretty good IMO.

  92. Jerkface April 28th, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    Though I would like to see a little more feel and variation to his fastball, too. Right now, it sits 92 and is straight as an arrow. Might as well put a pitching machine on the mound. There is a big difference between a 95 or 96 mph fastball and a 92 mph fastball, which frankly is pretty average. It would be nice if Hughes would have enough feel for the fastball where he could take it down to 90 then up to 93 or 94. Right now, it’s usually 92 and no movement — very easy for a MLB hitter to time and crush.

    Jmv, right. I think there has been this myth that Hughes has a tremendous fastball, and really, it’s not that great. He has some deception with his short arm action, but 92 is 92 — not really that great. Even if he was sent to the pen, he won’t succeed with that fastball unless his curve or change improve. I doubt he can dial it up to 95 or 96 like he was able to do in 2009. He belongs in the minors to work on his secondary pitches and his feel w/the fastball.

    Tucker you’re just incredibly incorrect regarding Hughes fastball. It is, infact, his only good pitch and it would be a good pitch for any pitcher in baseball. 91-94 with late life, it has one of the highest swing and miss percentages in baseball. You realize that most starters cannot just rear back and blow a fastball by someone? It takes more than velocity to do that. Joba chamberlain, despite throwing 99, could not just blow a fastball by someone. Hughes has that ability, to get his fastball by a guy with 2 strikes. It is a testament to how good the pitch is that he can do that when the hitter has no fear of seeing a quality secondary pitch come at him.

    It is also much less hittable than any of his other pitches. And by far his most effective.

    Would I like to see him get a 2-seam? Sure. You ask for him to show more movement & feel, well he did develop a cut fastball, which is what you do when you want more movement & feel and that pitch has turned into an albatross.

    Here is a stat, with 2 strikes if a hitter swings at a Hughes fastball they whiff 17% of the time. Which is the exact definition of ‘blowing someone away’. Almost all of Hughes strike outs, in his career, are off his fastball. Go watch the highlight reel of him no hitting Oakland in 2010, every strike out was a fastball swinging.

    I’m gonna sound like a broken record, but Hughes has 1 good thing going for him right now, and it is his fastball. Don’t like to see people incorrectly disparage it by calling it a straight fastball or a bad pitch.

  93. Jerkface April 28th, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    He did a pretty amazing job last year getting what they got out of that rotation….and Sabathia pretty much immediately started striking out more guys…….nobody can just make Hughes have better secondary pitches….I don’t see Rothschild as the problem
    …he’s pretty good IMO.

    I’m on the fence. Rothschild can’t just magically make Hughes good, but no one seems to be saying what is obvious: Hughes needs a better secondary pitch. It took 2 years for Hughes to admit to himself last year and the changes he made with Rothschild just haven’t paid off.

    Hughes is afraid to throw his curve with 2 strikes. Throwing it only 14% of the time this year compared with 21% in his career. He should be getting guys to 2 strikes with his fastball and then finishing them with the curve, but he can’t.

  94. Jerkface April 28th, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    Here is a stat, with 2 strikes if a hitter swings at a Hughes fastball they whiff 17% of the time.

    This is actually for his career, this year its 22%!

  95. ron April 28th, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    I saw an article that hughes has abandoned his 2 seam fb,and he was at his best when he mixed that in as well as his 4 seam,cutter,curve,change.

  96. blake April 28th, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    “. Rothschild can’t just magically make Hughes good, but no one seems to be saying what is obvious: Hughes needs a better secondary pitch.”

    That’s a fair point….but I can’t imagine they don’t know that….my guess is they just can’t decide what to do about it……of course they did sit there and let Pineda throw over 60 pitches when he clearly wasn’t right.

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