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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Phelps and Mitchell emerging as valuable assets

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Apr 30, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

When the Yankees went into spring training, their projected Triple-A rotation included five young pitchers ranked among their top 21 prospects according to Baseball America: Manny Banuelos  was No. 2, Dellin Betances  was No. 3, Adam Warren was No. 15, D.J. Mitchell was No. 16 and David Phelps ranked No. 21.

You might have noticed it’s lowest-ranked of the group that just moved into the big league rotation, and the second lowest who was just called up to the big league bullpen.

“Any time you’re in consideration for a starting role on this team, it’s a big deal,” Phelps said. “With the quality arms we have on this team, I don’t take it lightly.”

Phelps and Mitchell — and Warren to a slightly lesser extent — have been overshadowed by Betances and Banuelos, but Phelps has proven he can pitch at the Major League level, and Mitchell was easily the best starter in that Triple-A rotation. There’s no doubt that age plays a part in this – Betances and Banuelos are younger than the other three – but it’s also a reminder that a player can move fairly quietly through the system (cough … Ivan Nova … cough) and emerge as a significant role player. Phelps, Mitchell and Warren more or less came up through the system together, and it was obvious during their three-man, long-relief competition this spring that they were pulling for one another.

“To an extent it really wasn’t disappointing (to be sent down) knowing it was going to be one of us three,” Mitchell said. “I’ve known Phelps since Day 1, and I’ve known Warren for a while too. Either way, I think we were proud of each other. Of course you’re going to be disappointed when you’re told you’re getting sent down, but it’s not as bad to be here now. I don’t really know how to explain it. It’s the greatest. I know I’ll be asking Phelps a lot of questions and try to take the best of it, run with it and see what happens.”

See what happens.

It’s a common phrase in spring training and in the minor leagues, especially when opportunities seem few and far between. In mid-March, the Yankees seemed to have six big league starters plus Andy Pettitte. There was little room for anyone from that projected Triple-A rotation to crack the big league pitching staff. Now Phelps and Mitchell have big league lockers just a few feet from one another.

“I learned real quick, especially this spring, to not have expectations about what’s going to happen,” Phelps said. “I just kind of go out and do what I can control and just kind of go from there. … It’s exciting for me because we were talking in spring training – me, Adam and D.J. – and if one of is going to get a chance, it’s exciting for the other ones because they’re right there with us. I’m so excited that D.J. got called up. It’s two of my best friends. It’s exciting to see our hard work pay off.”

Associated Press photo

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185 Responses to “Phelps and Mitchell emerging as valuable assets”

  1. Giuseppe Franco April 30th, 2012 at 9:02 am

    Game of Inches April 30th, 2012 at 8:37 am

    I’m not so much worried about Granderson, as I am Teix (especially LH) and Hughes.

    Teix needs to stay after class for extra tutoring with Kevin Long and attend the Curtis Granderson School of Getting My Stroke Back, and Hughes needs a detention in AAA – you’re not coming out young man until you get your secondary pitches back. Right now he’s useless as a SP and there’s no place for him in the BP.

    ——–

    What makes you think that Teixeira isn’t already staying after class for extra tutoring with Long?

    Teixeira isn’t stupid. He doesn’t need the fans to tell him he’s not performing up to expectations.

    Baseball is not an easy game regardless of the level of competition. I’m going through my own struggles at the plate in my own baseball league (and yes, it’s baseball – not softball) and I’m working on my hitting constantly during my free time. I’m in the cages 3-4 times a week.

    The thing is that there is no substitute for game action. You can work on your swing doing extra drills, hitting off the tee, and taking extra BP until your hands bleed but it doesn’t come close to simulating live pitchers whose goal is to get you out.

    There’s also a mental aspect to the art of hitting and guys who struggle tend to think more and put added pressure on themselves, which just adds to the difficulty of breaking out of slumps.

    By no means am I trying to compare my situation to the major leagues but its a lot easier said than done to translate what you’re doing in BP and side drills and taking it to live game action.

    Some people just assume a guy having struggles at the plate is not working hard enough to overcome it but I can assure you that assumption couldn’t be further from the truth.

    Just my two cents.

  2. MTU April 30th, 2012 at 9:04 am

    Glad you guys are getting a shot.

    Make the most of it.

    ;)

  3. MTU April 30th, 2012 at 9:06 am

    GF-

    If I were the accountant for LoHud I’d say your 2 cents is worth a lot.

    ;)

  4. Yankee Trader April 30th, 2012 at 9:09 am

    Disco Stu-

    Thanks for your response on the last thread on the rotation.

    GF-
    Maybe if Tex stopped the bat wiggle and just rested it on his shoulder like what was suggested by Long for Swisher and Granderson, his hitting and timing would improve??? :)

  5. Yankee Trader April 30th, 2012 at 9:13 am

    “In his four starts of the 2012 season, Phil Hughes‘ best offspeed pitch has been his changeup, yet with 89 two strike counts in his favor, he’s thrown only 3 changeups. It feels like it’s happening more and more, and it’s something we’ve uttered his entire career, but the pitcher gives up too many hits two strikes. Looking at selection and location, there’s no reason to wonder, he’s predictable. Take a look for yourself.”

    http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/.....ikes-40797

    Is some of that the catchers fault, or has Hughes been shaking off too many pitches?

  6. MTU April 30th, 2012 at 9:13 am

    GF-

    Because unlike some folks you have common “cents” which is really quite rare.

    :)

  7. MTU April 30th, 2012 at 9:15 am

    YT-

    Do you think Hughes has confidence in his change ?

    Does he throw it with conviction, or is it just a “show me ” pitch ?

  8. Game of Inches April 30th, 2012 at 9:19 am

    Giuseppe Franco April 30th, 2012 at 9:02 am

    Game of Inches April 30th, 2012 at 8:37 am

    I’m not so much worried about Granderson, as I am Teix (especially LH) and Hughes.

    Teix needs to stay after class for extra tutoring with Kevin Long and attend the Curtis Granderson School of Getting My Stroke Back, and Hughes needs a detention in AAA – you’re not coming out young man until you get your secondary pitches back. Right now he’s useless as a SP and there’s no place for him in the BP.

    ——–

    What makes you think that Teixeira isn’t already staying after class for extra tutoring with Long?

    Teixeira isn’t stupid. He doesn’t need the fans to tell him he’s not performing up to expectations.

    Baseball is not an easy game regardless of the level of competition. I’m going through my own struggles at the plate in my own baseball league (and yes, it’s baseball – not softball) and I’m working on my hitting constantly during my free time. I’m in the cages 3-4 times a week.

    The thing is that there is no substitute for game action. You can work on your swing doing extra drills, hitting off the tee, and taking extra BP until your hands bleed but it doesn’t come close to simulating live pitchers whose goal is to get you out.

    There’s also a mental aspect to the art of hitting and guys who struggle tend to think more and put added pressure on themselves, which just adds to the difficulty of breaking out of slumps.

    By no means am I trying to compare my situation to the major leagues but its a lot easier said than done to translate what you’re doing in BP and side drills and taking it to live game action.

    Some people just assume a guy having struggles at the plate is not working hard enough to overcome it but I can assure you that assumption couldn’t be further from the truth.

    Just my two cents.

    _____________________________________________

    No one is saying or implying (at least I’m not) that Teix is sitting around the clubhouse playing with his PS3.

    But what’s happening with Teix is increasingly troubling – when you have a .280-.290 lifetime hitter struggling to hit .250 I’d say it’s cause for concern. And we all know full well that Teix took hitting practice at Bobby V’s facility in the off season. That’s fine and dandy.

    We know a lot of the game is mental – so when, for example, a shift is deployed and Teix, unlike say, Prince Fielder, is of the opinion that the way to beat the shift is hit it over the wall (his words paraphrased) perhaps his approach needs tweaking. Long helped Granderson who – especially against LHers – had a lot more issues than Teix does batting LH against righties.

    No one is saying he’s stupid – stubborn perhaps?

    Just sayin’

  9. Yankee Trader April 30th, 2012 at 9:20 am

    What is left for the 20 year old Tyler Austin to work on, that he can’t or shouldn’t be fast tracked to the majors like 19 yo Bryce Harper who within a year was in low A-AA-AAA then playing LF the other night for the Nationals??

  10. Game of Inches April 30th, 2012 at 9:22 am

    Betances and Banuelos are younger than the other three – but it’s also a reminder that a player can move fairly quietly through the system (cough … Ivan Nova … cough)

    Good one, Chad :)

  11. blake April 30th, 2012 at 9:22 am

    Phelps may have Nesn ranked 21st by BA….but other publications have him much higher. Sickel’s had him at 7th and had this to say

    7) David Phelps, RHP, Grade B-: I like him more than most people do. Has developed the secondary pitches needed to off-set the fastball, and was one of the few pitchers who didn’t get killed in the Arizona Fall League. Could be a fourth starter if given a chance.

    http://mobile.minorleagueball......s-for-2012

  12. Yankee Trader April 30th, 2012 at 9:23 am

    MTU-

    After reading the attached article, the CU is Hughes 2nd best pitch. I don’t know if it’s a confidence issue, or just an issue between the ears, thinking that his fastball is good enough to get the 3rd strike and efficiently maintain a low pitch count.

    Are you hiking today?

  13. 86w183 April 30th, 2012 at 9:23 am

    Tex simply MUST start going the other way when batting lefty. His putrid roller with two in scoring position was a perfect example. the only pitches he’s getting to pull are off the plate and thus, he leads the team in foul balls to the right side.

    I’m with G.F., there’s no doubt in my mind he’s working as hard as he can, but to me his mental approach needs to change more than his mechanics.

    If they don’t make a move today they will take to the field with TWO position players for the bench. that’s ridiculous roster mismanagement.

  14. MTU April 30th, 2012 at 9:24 am

    YT-

    Only thing that remains is the name change to Austin Tyler.

    ;)

  15. Giuseppe Franco April 30th, 2012 at 9:24 am

    Thanks, MTU. Much appreciated.

    YT,

    I’m having a hard time overcoming my own struggles at the plate so I can’t even begin to demonstrate what Teixeira has to do to overcome his issues. LOL.

    Now it’s off to the gym.

  16. blake April 30th, 2012 at 9:25 am

    Hughes’s second best pitch is the CU with regards to quality of the pitch……but he doesn’t command it all that well and he doesn’t really use it against RH hitters either…..if you gave Hughes DRob’s breaking ball he’d be a totally different guy ……

  17. Yankee Trader April 30th, 2012 at 9:27 am

    GF-

    Have a great day. Have to go soon also to gym, to work on regaining my 55 mph fastball.

  18. Game of Inches April 30th, 2012 at 9:27 am

    MTU April 30th, 2012 at 9:24 am

    YT-

    Only thing that remains is the name change to Austin Tyler.

    ;)

    ———————————————

    And I can hear Sterling already: “Austin Powers another one. YEAH BABY!!”

    God help us.

  19. MTU April 30th, 2012 at 9:28 am

    Blake-

    Yeah. And if I had a cape I’d be Superman.

    If only it were that simple.

    Time for Mr. Splitty to make an appearance.

    :)

  20. blake April 30th, 2012 at 9:28 am

    “Tex simply MUST start going the other way when batting lefty.”

    Its easy to say that…..the hard part though is that his swing mechanics from that side make it very difficult to execute…..if Tex tries to go the other way the most likely result is a lazy fly ball to left center……I think his swing is a little better than last year but its really only marginally so and really hasn’t corrected the core issues that are causing his struggles

  21. blake April 30th, 2012 at 9:29 am

    MTU,

    Split or a tight hard slider……something he can miss bats with ….

  22. MTU April 30th, 2012 at 9:31 am

    YT-

    When I hit the gym my favorite exercise to strengthen my throwing arm is the beer can hoist.

    Believe it or not I can dead lift a whole six pack.

    :)

  23. Yankee Trader April 30th, 2012 at 9:31 am

    Only thing that remains is the name change to Austin Tyler.
    ———————-
    MTU-

    I’m a little “slow” this morning. Are you referring to him having two first names or to some famous Austin Tyler? I got so confused that I had to double check that I got it right as Tyler Austin! :)

  24. Yankee Trader April 30th, 2012 at 9:33 am

    MTU-

    I can dead lift a whole six pack also, in fact two at a time with each arm-the problem is all cans must be completely empty!

  25. MTU April 30th, 2012 at 9:33 am

    Blake-

    Trouble is I doubt very much the Yankees are gonna invest much more time in Hughes.

    If he can’t cut it I’d love to see him sent to AAA but I’ll believe it when I see it.

    ;)

  26. MTU April 30th, 2012 at 9:35 am

    YT-

    The 2 first names thing.

  27. Yankee Trader April 30th, 2012 at 9:37 am

    Blake-

    Remember when the Yankees had the bases loaded yesterday-hard to forget because it happened like 3 times?

    Tex was up with two outs and the 3rd baseman was playing near short. I almost wished that was the 1st time he’d try and lay a bunt down the 3rd base line. :)

  28. Yankee Trader April 30th, 2012 at 9:38 am

    I’d like to stay, but have to go. Until later.

    Have a great day everyone.

    We’ll talk later. :)

  29. MTU April 30th, 2012 at 9:39 am

    Go get ‘em YT.

    ;)

  30. blake April 30th, 2012 at 9:40 am

    “Trouble is I doubt very much the Yankees are gonna invest much more time in Hughes.”

    I doubt they will either…..if they coukd save all of 2012 on his service time though and try and rebuild him for 2013 and 2014 then I think it would be worthwhile to try…..I don’t expect them too…..if he bombs tomorrow then he’ll be in the bullpen most likely.

  31. MTU April 30th, 2012 at 9:42 am

    Blake-

    Maybe we’ll get a surprise.

  32. blake April 30th, 2012 at 9:44 am

    Tex has always been a slow starter so ill wait awhile before judging…..but if he declines for a third straight year Im really not sure what they are going to do with him…..he’s not even hitting homers so far this year and that’s where almost all of his value hitting left handed has been recently……good news is that he was looking ok before the horrible stretch since Boston so maybe he will turn it around.

  33. ac1 April 30th, 2012 at 9:48 am

    So who leaves to make room for an additional outfielder with Gardner out and Swish with his 3rd leg injury already this year (and it’s only april)?

  34. Chip April 30th, 2012 at 9:50 am

    Let me preface this by saying I can’t stand Mike Lupica I think he’s condescending and a general weenie.

    That said, I completely agree with something he wrote in his Sunday column: Brian Cashman needs to shut up about the Pineda trade.

    I’m sorry the trade (to this point) looks bad, but I don’t need Cashman going out there every five minutes throwing himself a pity party talking about how devastated he is. For one thing, I’m sure Michael Pineda feels about two billion times more devastated than Brian Cashman does, and for the second, I don’t need my GM wallowing in depression over a deal gone sour. Man up and fix it. He uses self pity way too much “oh teams want to hold us up in trade talks; wah players ask for tons more money from us….” if you want the trappings that come from being the GM of the Yankees then deal with the hard stuff as well. But more importantly – stop whining about this deal – you’re not helping the situation by doing so. And that’s not to say that I agree with Raissman who seems to think that Cashman should publicly tell us what his plans are – but we get it, the player got hurt, the trade looks bad – whining about how you bad you feel about it is not going to make anyone feel better or get you off the hook.

    Billy Madden had a great point – that when the Yankees traded for Pineda they immediately could have (and probably should have) had him at least checking in with the Dominican Academy run by Felix Lopez – instead Brian said, “see you at Spring Training” not the way you handle a precious commodity. Did that lead to him getting hurt – I doubt it, but it probably could have helped in that he would have come in better condition.

  35. Bo knows April 30th, 2012 at 9:54 am

    I swear these guys run through the latest and greatest workouts. Swisher is the prime example. More buff less stamina.

    I think the latest was a boxing regimen which is geared to short outbursts of exertion. Gee, ya think it might be counterproductive. Tight hamstrings – oh good.

    He pulled it on a swing for God’s sake.

  36. Chip April 30th, 2012 at 9:54 am

    ac1 April 30th, 2012 at 9:48 am

    So who leaves to make room for an additional outfielder with Gardner out and Swish with his 3rd leg injury already this year (and it’s only april)?
    ———————

    For some unholy reason the Yankees aren’t going to put Swisher on the DL and are going to just go with a two man bench. Brian said that he’s not inclined to do anything right now because the only guy on the roster that they could call up is Melky Mesa.

    Idiocy if you ask me.

    I would DFA Freddy Garcia and call up DeWayne Wise

  37. blake April 30th, 2012 at 9:55 am

    “Man up and fix it. He uses self pity way too much “oh teams want to hold us up in trade talks; wah players ask for tons more money from us….” if you want the trappings that come from being the GM of the Yankees then deal with the hard stuff as well.”

    The best move and work Cashman has done as GM of the Yankees isbwhen he flew to California and closed the deal with Sabathia……refusing to come back without the player they needed. He may have a similar opportunity this winter to repeat a similar move if Hal will let him……my guess is that he wont…….

  38. MTU April 30th, 2012 at 9:56 am

    Time to walk the Mops.

  39. blake April 30th, 2012 at 9:57 am

    “For some unholy reason the Yankees aren’t going to put Swisher on the DL and are going to just go with a two man bench.”

    Yea….they really need to fry and get a feel for the injury over the next couple of days…..if he’s gonna be out over a week then DL him and open the roster spot…..get the hammy 100% and bring hin back…..its a long season.

  40. Chip April 30th, 2012 at 9:58 am

    Some other thoughts from the weekend:

    1. The Freddy Garcia demotion to the pen was well deserved. Phil Hughes should be on notice with DJ Mitchell up that he could be next.

    2. Is it my imagination or are teams quicker on the trigger with veteran players than they have been: Garcia, Inge, Bobby Abreu…used to be that veterans would get at least until Memorial Day to get themselves sorted out.

  41. CountryClub April 30th, 2012 at 9:58 am

    Stinks that the team had to put up with Garcia’s struggles. But since he was always a stop gap pitcher, his issues could turn out to be a blessing in disguise. Now Phelps gets a shot to start and Mitchell is up from AAA. Hopefully Phelps grabs the brass ring & Mitchell is given a chance out of the pen.

  42. CountryClub April 30th, 2012 at 10:00 am

    If Hughes continues to struggle, Phelps could be pitching for the 5th spot for the rest of the season. When Pettitte comes back it’ll be one or the other.

  43. 86w183 April 30th, 2012 at 10:00 am

    Blake, I never said it was an easy adjustment. but if you go the other way you kind of take your top hand out of it to an extent. He’ll never get back to hitting close to .300 if he remains a dead pull hitter left handed.

    Since they decided not to DL Garcia with a dead arm they need to ship out Rapada for Dwayne Wise or some other OF. Rapada and logan have combined to throw 27 pitches in the last five days so he’s clearly a luxury.

  44. randy l. April 30th, 2012 at 10:00 am

    ” It discounts the regular season. Hockey is, of course, a sport where there are a lot of upsets. You know, there’s been a lot of research into this. The lower scoring a sport is, the more upsets you’re going to have.”

    http://www.npr.org/2012/04/29/.....f-fairness

    if this is true, perhaps this explains why the yankees have piled up so many championships because they have almost always emphasized a murderer’s row preference with offense leading the way.

    the idea would be that high scoring games take away the one lucky run that could decide a low scoring game.

    so is cashman building a team that emphasizes pitching and lower scoring games which increases the chances for upsets in the payoffs?

    how exactly does this help the yankees? why wouldn’t they want to have high scoring games to take away the value of lucky runs? the yankees are the top dog. why would they want to create a possibility of randomness coming into play in big games ?

  45. Wang IS Taiwan April 30th, 2012 at 10:01 am

    Phelps resembles Moose in the photo. Glad he’s getting a shot.

  46. ac1 April 30th, 2012 at 10:03 am

    For some unholy reason the Yankees aren’t going to put Swisher on the DL and are going to just go with a two man bench. Brian said that he’s not inclined to do anything right now because the only guy on the roster that they could call up is Melky Mesa.

    Idiocy if you ask me.

    I would DFA Freddy Garcia and call up DeWayne Wise

    ______

    Ugh really?
    I agree about Wise….

  47. DONNYBROOK April 30th, 2012 at 10:03 am

    To me, the biggest “game changer”currently facing the Yanks is the loss of Swisher. Coupled with Gardner’s absence, this means Ibanez could see some time in RF, and yesterday he was Lost out there. For the Balt. series, I would just go with Nunez in LF, and Jones in RF, and Not concern myself with the R\L matchups. Should Swish go on the DL, then I gotta tap the Minors for a RF’er, with defense being the primary consideration. NO way Ibanez should be penciled in to play D.

  48. Chip April 30th, 2012 at 10:04 am

    blake April 30th, 2012 at 9:55 am

    “Man up and fix it. He uses self pity way too much “oh teams want to hold us up in trade talks; wah players ask for tons more money from us….” if you want the trappings that come from being the GM of the Yankees then deal with the hard stuff as well.”

    The best move and work Cashman has done as GM of the Yankees isbwhen he flew to California and closed the deal with Sabathia……refusing to come back without the player they needed. He may have a similar opportunity this winter to repeat a similar move if Hal will let him……my guess is that he wont…….
    —————

    I don’t expect Brian to make a trade or signing to replace Pineda, at least not until the success of Pineda’s operation is determined.

    But man, I don’t need to hear or read about him whining about how upset he is over this anymore. I feel bad for Pineda, I don’t feel bad for Cashman. He has a job to do, do it.

    Yeah, he made a trade that looks bad right now – so what? It’s not the first time and probably won’t be the last time that a deal (be it a trade or free agent) backfires on him. I can’t imagine this kind of dithering and whining would have been tolerated under George – though if George was around then the minute Pineda was lost for the year Brian would have been “re-assigned” to a different position within the organization.

    My greater concern is this – Pineda’s out for the year, Betances is stinking up AAA and Banuelos is on the DL – once again convincing me that the Yankees have no clue what to do with high end pitching talent and further convincing me that Phelps, Nova, Warren and Mitchell will have better Yankee careers than Hughes, Joba, Betances and Banuelos.

  49. Joe from Long Island April 30th, 2012 at 10:05 am

    Is it my imagination or are teams quicker on the trigger with veteran players than they have been: Garcia, Inge, Bobby Abreu?used to be that veterans would get at least until Memorial Day to get themselves sorted out.

    chip – i know, could be a couple of reasons. lack of amphetamines, other peds (though some might that is debatable); more of emphasis on younger, less expensive players. for whatever reason, joe has seemed a lot quicker – at least to me – to pull freddy than he was to pull aj, for instance, last year. i think he will have a shorter and shorter leash with hughes, also, though for a different reason.

  50. Chip April 30th, 2012 at 10:06 am

    ac1 April 30th, 2012 at 10:03 am

    For some unholy reason the Yankees aren’t going to put Swisher on the DL and are going to just go with a two man bench. Brian said that he’s not inclined to do anything right now because the only guy on the roster that they could call up is Melky Mesa.

    Idiocy if you ask me.

    I would DFA Freddy Garcia and call up DeWayne Wise

    ______

    Ugh really?
    I agree about Wise….
    ————

    Yup, I guess for now the plan is Ibanez in LF, Jones in RF and Curtis Granderson asking for a raise in CF.

  51. Joe from Long Island April 30th, 2012 at 10:07 am

    chip – in fairness to banuelos and betances – they’re each a few years younger than phelps, nova, mitchell; and it sounds like banuelos was trying to push it a bit with lat dorsi injury. the weather in upstate ny was also not conducive to baseball.

    i wasn’t counting on either banuelos or betances for this year, anyway.

  52. J. Alfred Prufrock April 30th, 2012 at 10:07 am

    Betances and Banuelos are younger than the other three – but it’s also a reminder that a player can move fairly quietly through the system (cough … Ivan Nova … cough)

    Good one, Chad
    ///

    Not really getting the comparison at all. There’s no analogy to be made with Phelps/Mitchell/Warren and Betances and Banuelos, in terms of viewing the latter as two guys with a lot of scrutiny who somehow have turned up a thumbs down verdict, vs. ‘under the radar’ arms.

    You can argue that generally there is something to this, and I think that’s reasonable. But using Dellin and Manny as an analogy (and grouping them with Hughes/Chamberlain) makes no sense, since there’s no impact to be registered on them to date on how moving without “quiet” has affected them, since they’re not even remotely “through the system” yet.

    Neither has succumbed to “scrutiny” to derail them; they just got to AAA. Anyone who thinks Betances or Banuelos should have made an impact on the ML roster “by now” is not dealing in reality re young pitchers. Perhaps this thinking just points up the lack of reality of Yankee fans on where two kids who have barely broken their teeth at triple A should be.

    Consider:

    Betances: 44.1 IP at AAA!
    Banuelos: 39.2 IP at AAA!

    Phelps: 177.2 IP at AAA (plus AFL)
    Mitchell: 201.2 IP at AAA
    Warren: 172.3 IP at AAA

  53. Chip April 30th, 2012 at 10:08 am

    Joe from Long Island April 30th, 2012 at 10:05 am

    Is it my imagination or are teams quicker on the trigger with veteran players than they have been: Garcia, Inge, Bobby Abreu?used to be that veterans would get at least until Memorial Day to get themselves sorted out.

    chip – i know, could be a couple of reasons. lack of amphetamines, other peds (though some might that is debatable); more of emphasis on younger, less expensive players. for whatever reason, joe has seemed a lot quicker – at least to me – to pull freddy than he was to pull aj, for instance, last year. i think he will have a shorter and shorter leash with hughes, also, though for a different reason.
    ————–

    I think the difference between Freddy this year and AJ last year is the same as Javy the year before vs. AJ…the contracts.

    Freddy (and Javy before him) is on a one year deal whereas AJ had multiple years left on his deal. You can banish a guy to the pen for a year (or even eat the contract and just let him go) but that’s harder to do when you’re talking about a guy with a few years left on his deal.

    I think if Mitchell throws well out of the pen and Hughes continues to pitch as he has – Joe will make that change too – though in that case it might result in Hughes going to AAA rather than the bullpen.

  54. blake April 30th, 2012 at 10:09 am

    ,Blake, I never said it was an easy adjustment. but if you go the other way you kind of take your top hand out of it to an extent. He’ll never get back to hitting close to .300 if he remains a dead pull hitter left handed.”

    Its more than an adjustment……its a drastic reworking of his swing….the straight down and up swing plane he has just makes it hard to allow the ball to travel deep enough to hit it squarely the other way…..he either has to get out in front and hook it or just time it perfectly ….which is hard to do. If he can’t change his swing then honestly his most productive approach from the left side might be to be a Carlos Pena type and just try to walk and hit homers…..going the other way only works if your swings allows you to do it…..otherwise you’re just going away from what you CAN do.

  55. Chip April 30th, 2012 at 10:11 am

    Joe from Long Island April 30th, 2012 at 10:07 am

    chip – in fairness to banuelos and betances – they’re each a few years younger than phelps, nova, mitchell; and it sounds like banuelos was trying to push it a bit with lat dorsi injury. the weather in upstate ny was also not conducive to baseball.

    i wasn’t counting on either banuelos or betances for this year, anyway.
    ——————-

    I would be happy to be proven wrong – but I can’t remember the last time a “highly touted Yankee pitching prospect” actually became a good major league pitcher. I guess the closest would be Eric Milton.

  56. ac1 April 30th, 2012 at 10:11 am

    I think if Mitchell throws well out of the pen and Hughes continues to pitch as he has – Joe will make that change too – though in that case it might result in Hughes going to AAA rather than the bullpen.

    ___

    I think Pettitte will be back before Mitchell has that chance….
    Unless there is another injury.
    Not bringing up Wise is lunacy….

  57. Game of Inches April 30th, 2012 at 10:11 am

    Yeah, he made a trade that looks bad right now – so what? It’s not the first time and probably won’t be the last time that a deal (be it a trade or free agent) backfires on him. I can’t imagine this kind of dithering and whining would have been tolerated under George – though if George was around then the minute Pineda was lost for the year Brian would have been “re-assigned” to a different position within the organization.

    __________________________

    You got that right. If George were still around Cashman’s new role (if he still had one) would be washing the outside windows on the Mohegan Sun (or whatever the hell else it’s called this year) batters’ eye out in CF. He even has the rappelling practice so it should be a snap.

  58. blake April 30th, 2012 at 10:12 am

    Teams are definitely growing less patient with struggling veterans…..its a young mans game again in general because of the reasons Joe listed.

  59. jacksquat April 30th, 2012 at 10:13 am

    Only two guys on the bench, Nunie and Stewie. It’s alright for injury reserve, but you can’t tweak the lineup to the pitcher, or really pinch hit or pinch run.

  60. Stoneburner April 30th, 2012 at 10:13 am

    Consider:

    Betances: 44.1 IP at AAA!
    Banuelos: 39.2 IP at AAA!

    Phelps: 177.2 IP at AAA (plus AFL)
    Mitchell: 201.2 IP at AAA
    Warren: 172.3 IP at AAA

    *********

    Real original thinking here fake fan boy – this same post was practically on Pinestripes Plus over the weekend – the borrowing – the lack of original thought – the borrowing – oh fake fan boys – what will you borrow from other fangraphs and stripes and make your own here on lohud . . . . original thought – that is what separates a true prospect hugger from a fake Yankees fan boy. . . .

  61. Chip April 30th, 2012 at 10:15 am

    ac1 April 30th, 2012 at 10:11 am

    I think if Mitchell throws well out of the pen and Hughes continues to pitch as he has – Joe will make that change too – though in that case it might result in Hughes going to AAA rather than the bullpen.

    ___

    I think Pettitte will be back before Mitchell has that chance….
    Unless there is another injury.
    Not bringing up Wise is lunacy….
    ————–

    That’s true – Andy will likely be up in a couple of weeks – that gives Phil two more starts to get his act together.

    Unless of course Phelps implodes.

  62. blake April 30th, 2012 at 10:16 am

    And I realize the Yanks aren’t paying 23 million bucks a year for Tex to be Carlos Pena 2/3 of the games……but it is what it is….it may be unrealistic at this point in his career to totally change the way he swings the bat and because more balanced as a hitter.

    They may have to face that hes an elite player against lefites…..but basically a homer specialist against righties….

  63. Chip April 30th, 2012 at 10:17 am

    jacksquat April 30th, 2012 at 10:13 am

    Only two guys on the bench, Nunie and Stewie. It’s alright for injury reserve, but you can’t tweak the lineup to the pitcher, or really pinch hit or pinch run.
    —————–

    What would serve them right for this level of stupidity is Girardi sticking to his plan of getting Nunez in the lineup – starting him at ss with Jeter at DH and a bench of Chavez and Stewart – Ibanez or Jones getting hurt during the game early, Nunez having to move to the OF, Jeter having to move to ss and the Yankees losing their DH.

  64. ac1 April 30th, 2012 at 10:18 am

    i see no point to wasting a bullpen spot on garcia.
    either DL him with dead arm or release him.
    time to see what we have in our system with Warren/Mitchell/Phelps

    Pinedas injury also leaves the Joba to the rotation door open. for 2013.

  65. Against All Odds April 30th, 2012 at 10:19 am

    My greater concern is this – Pineda’s out for the year, Betances is stinking up AAA and Banuelos is on the DL – once again convincing me that the Yankees have no clue what to do with high end pitching talent

    ————————–

    David in Cal raised a good question in the previous thread:

    Does the team lack judgment about how to evaluate and build young SPs? Are there people in baseball who are better in this area than anyone on the Yankee staff?

  66. blake April 30th, 2012 at 10:20 am

    “i see no point to wasting a bullpen spot on garcia. either DL him with dead arm or release him.”

    Yea….I really thought they’d come up win a reason to DL him and see if they could get his velo back up to where he coukd be successful…..I know I don’t want him coming in the game in relief and throwing gopher balls…

  67. Game of Inches April 30th, 2012 at 10:20 am

    Consider:

    Betances: 44.1 IP at AAA!
    Banuelos: 39.2 IP at AAA!

    Phelps: 177.2 IP at AAA (plus AFL)
    Mitchell: 201.2 IP at AAA
    Warren: 172.3 IP at AAA

    __________________________

    I realize we’re dealing with small sample sizes here with the B’s, but my chuckle at Chad’s snarkiness outlines the bigger issue – and the inherent problem with valuing prospects to begin with. To watch unheralded guys like Wang, Cano, Robertson make it while highly touted guys like Hughes & Chamberlain struggle shows the process is largely a crapshoot, and the “can’t miss” tag oftentimes is white noise.

    It doesn’t help matters if there are developmental issues within the Yankee organization that hinder the progress of some pitchers (***cough – Joba Rules – cough***) but that’s another discussion.

  68. Chip April 30th, 2012 at 10:21 am

    ac1 April 30th, 2012 at 10:18 am

    i see no point to wasting a bullpen spot on garcia. – agree
    either DL him with dead arm or release him.agree
    time to see what we have in our system with Warren/Mitchell/Phelpsagree

    Pinedas injury also leaves the Joba to the rotation door open. for 2013.disagree

  69. Against All Odds April 30th, 2012 at 10:22 am

    JAP check out the vid I posted on the previous post.

  70. DONNYBROOK April 30th, 2012 at 10:22 am

    The Angels put Abreu out of a job when they signed Pujols. So they pay Pujols roughly $24 Mill per, and cut Abreu and his $9 Mill, making Pujols a $33 Mill per signing. Dumb.

  71. Chip April 30th, 2012 at 10:23 am

    I think Joba and Hughes will both be off the Yankees in 2013

  72. Chip April 30th, 2012 at 10:24 am

    DONNYBROOK April 30th, 2012 at 10:22 am

    The Angels put Abreu out of a job when they signed Pujols. So they pay Pujols roughly $24 Mill per, and cut Abreu and his $9 Mill, making Pujols a $33 Mill per signing. Dumb.
    —————–
    Abreu put Abreu out of a job with his performance (or lack thereof) last year.

  73. blake April 30th, 2012 at 10:24 am

    “Does the team lack judgment about how to evaluate and build young SPs? Are there people in baseball who are better in this area than anyone on the Yankee staff?”

    Jury is still out……I do think its interesting that the 1st round pick with the most wins in Yankee history is……I believe Phil Hughes.

  74. ac1 April 30th, 2012 at 10:24 am

    Pinedas injury also leaves the Joba to the rotation door open. for 2013.disagree

    ___

    Let me correct myself then…. it SHOULD leave it open.
    Cashman is way too stubborn about his decisions though.

  75. ac1 April 30th, 2012 at 10:26 am

    I think Joba and Hughes will both be off the Yankees in 2013

    __

    DISAGREE about Joba, but i think the yankees will look to trade Hughes.

  76. yankeefeminista April 30th, 2012 at 10:26 am

    Stoneburner, no one needs to rely on a source for those things which are obvious to look for for those who follow prospects. You need to either discuss the prospects or get a new hobby, rather than trolling the posters here.

  77. blake April 30th, 2012 at 10:26 am

    The Angels put Abreu out of a job when they signed Pujols. So they pay Pujols roughly $24 Mill per, and cut Abreu and his $9 Mill, making Pujols a $33 Mill per signing. Dumb.”

    Getting dead weight out of the lineup so you can call up Mike Trout……smart

  78. Game of Inches April 30th, 2012 at 10:28 am

    ac1 April 30th, 2012 at 10:26 am

    I think Joba and Hughes will both be off the Yankees in 2013

    __

    DISAGREE about Joba, but i think the yankees will look to trade Hughes.

    ________________________________

    Hughes has next to no trade value right now – he needs to rehab his career (repertoire of pitches), and if he doesn’t show improvement pronto, the best venue for him (& the team) is AAA, I’m afraid.

  79. blake April 30th, 2012 at 10:29 am

    The Yanks can look to trade Hughes but how much value does he have? You’re not getting the bat you need with him……they’d be better off trying to rebuild him in the minors or trying to get value out of him as a reliever. If he doesn’t improve as a starter…..and they don’t want to committ to rebuilding him then I could see him possibly being a non tender candidate this winter…..depends on how he does and how much he’ll make as a final year arbitration guy.

  80. Against All Odds April 30th, 2012 at 10:29 am

    blake April 30th, 2012 at 10:24 am

    “Does the team lack judgment about how to evaluate and build young SPs? Are there people in baseball who are better in this area than anyone on the Yankee staff?”

    Jury is still out……I do think its interesting that the 1st round pick with the most wins in Yankee history is……I believe Phil Hughes.

    ———————

    That’s interesting when you think about it.

    IMO When it comes to SP there seems to be a disconnect. No one doubts that the guys they sign/draft are talented but implementing them into the rotation hasn’t gone as smooth as they probably thought it would. Joba being bounced around, Hughes according to some fans being rushed, etc. They are lacking in the area of development. The handling of pitchers over the past few seasons have left many fans scratching their heads.

    In any walk of life there are going to be ppl that excel in certain areas while others struggle. Switching sports for a second there is a reason why teams like the Steelers and Ravens not only find premium defensive players but develop them as well. There is a reason why the Colts outside of 1 Superbowl run never had a dominating defense but superior offense. Some ppl want to write it off as luck and sure it plays a role but time and time again when mistakes are made it’s not bad luck. They could have individuals that are good at evaluating and developing pitching but the philosophy of those in charge can negate their strengths.

  81. Chip April 30th, 2012 at 10:30 am

    ac1 April 30th, 2012 at 10:26 am

    I think Joba and Hughes will both be off the Yankees in 2013

    __

    DISAGREE about Joba, but i think the yankees will look to trade Hughes.
    —————–

    to quote the horrific movie “Little Big League” what’s the going rate for pitchers who can’t get anyone out?

  82. ac1 April 30th, 2012 at 10:30 am

    Hughes has next to no trade value right now – he needs to rehab his career (repertoire of pitches), and if he doesn’t show improvement pronto, the best venue for him (& the team) is AAA, I’m afraid.

    ___

    Experience shows us that they wont send Hughes back to AAA, more likely bury him in the pen.
    However Mitchell is in the pen, Garcia is in the pen (taking up space), Aardsma will be back this year, etc…..

  83. jacksquat April 30th, 2012 at 10:30 am

    I think you are pretty much forced to keep Nunez on the bench since he can conceivably play anywhere except 1b and C. I guess Ibanez would be the backup 1b since he has played 136 games there.

  84. DONNYBROOK April 30th, 2012 at 10:32 am

    I still find it hilarious that The Yanks could NOT make a Freddy roster decision yesterday, till Cashman showed up at the park. What’s next? Fans lined up, waiting for Cashman to show up and unlock the doors to Yankee Stadium??? The man is a control freak.

  85. Game of Inches April 30th, 2012 at 10:32 am

    Experience shows us that they wont send Hughes back to AAA, more likely bury him in the pen.
    However Mitchell is in the pen, Garcia is in the pen (taking up space), Aardsma will be back this year, etc…..

    ____________________________

    Sadly, I agree. Maybe they’ll show some stones and surprise me (not holding my breath).

  86. J. Alfred Prufrock April 30th, 2012 at 10:34 am

    Game of Inches April 30th, 2012 at 10:20 am
    Consider:

    Betances: 44.1 IP at AAA!
    Banuelos: 39.2 IP at AAA!

    Phelps: 177.2 IP at AAA (plus AFL)
    Mitchell: 201.2 IP at AAA
    Warren: 172.3 IP at AAA

    __________________________

    I realize we’re dealing with small sample sizes here with the B’s, but my chuckle at Chad’s snarkiness outlines the bigger issue – and the inherent problem with valuing prospects to begin with. To watch unheralded guys like Wang, Cano, Robertson make it while highly touted guys like Hughes & Chamberlain struggle shows the process is largely a crapshoot, and the “can’t miss” tag oftentimes is white noise.

    It doesn’t help matters if there are developmental issues within the Yankee organization that hinder the progress of some pitchers (***cough – Joba Rules – cough***) but that’s another discussion.
    ///

    Right, well Banuelos and Betances haven’t “missed” anything. We should allow them to actually earn the reputation of “busts” first, before we regard them as such.

    All I’m saying is, the analogy falls flat because neither has been tried sufficiently to reach that verdict. The idea that they’re failing is as much a fiction and as naive as it is to think all heralded prospects will glide onto perfect careers.

    As for Chamberlain, where the fault lies let the great axe fall. Yes, the dumb Joba Rules, including Eiland’s version of that in 2009 with those 4 inning starts, and never being shipped back to work under David Aldred. The Yankees apparently decided shoring up the BP was more advantageous to them than continuing his development as a starter. They decided the sacrifice was worth it.

    Maybe, in Joba’s case, it was the Yankees who couldn’t stand the scrutiny; not the player!

  87. DONNYBROOK April 30th, 2012 at 10:35 am

    I believe Nunez is at the point where he Needs to play onna regular basis. The Yanks are stunting his growth assa player, and his trade value, with the sporadic play he is currently getting.

  88. J. Alfred Prufrock April 30th, 2012 at 10:36 am

    Game of Inches April 30th, 2012 at 10:32 am
    Experience shows us that they wont send Hughes back to AAA, more likely bury him in the pen.
    However Mitchell is in the pen, Garcia is in the pen (taking up space), Aardsma will be back this year, etc…..

    ____________________________

    Sadly, I agree. Maybe they’ll show some stones and surprise me (not holding my breath).
    ///

    Well, it would certainly help make their misguided “pitching wins” absolutist battle cry actually take on some meaning.

  89. Game of Inches April 30th, 2012 at 10:36 am

    Was that really Cashman out there with the Bleacher Creatures the other day?

    Bald Vinny should’ve given him a giant wedgie on the foul pole until we get Montero back :wink:

  90. Against All Odds April 30th, 2012 at 10:37 am

    Maybe, in Joba’s case, it was the Yankees who couldn’t stand the scrutiny; not the player!

    ————————-

    True they could no longer stand the heat of him starting and not being all world in 09 so the pulled the cord.

  91. ac1 April 30th, 2012 at 10:37 am

    I believe Nunez is at the point where he Needs to play onna regular basis. The Yanks are stunting his growth assa player, and his trade value, with the sporadic play he is currently getting.

    __

    Forget the trade value.
    Nunez should be groomed to replace Swisher next year in RF.
    Strong arm, good bat, cheap…..

  92. randy l. April 30th, 2012 at 10:38 am

    “Does the team lack judgment about how to evaluate and build young SPs? Are there people in baseball who are better in this area than anyone on the Yankee staff?”

    not only are the yankees bad at trying to develop young pitchers, they are probably making a mistake focusing their resources on developing young pitchers because “PITCHING WINS” isn’t the way to go anyways.

    the yankees probably should be focusing on developing offensive players and creating high scoring games taking as much randomness out of the game as they can.

    the yankees made a fundamental mistake in trading offense for pitching with montero and pineda that’s goes against the formula that has worked for them for 75 years.

    cashman is simply making a mistake in strategy that goes against yankee dna.

    let the yankees but or trade for their aces and number two’s. in the meantime develop the cano’s and montero’s that they have. and draft some more offensive players instead of high ceiling, high risk pitchers.

    the yankees are just simply out of sync with cashman’s strategy.

    it’s not a doomsday strategy that will make the yankees implode, but it’s a drag on the team. they really do need to rethink what they are doing.

    the best way to do this is to make a management change.

  93. J. Alfred Prufrock April 30th, 2012 at 10:40 am

    yankeefeminista April 30th, 2012 at 10:26 am
    Stoneburner, no one needs to rely on a source for those things which are obvious to look for for those who follow prospects. You need to either discuss the prospects or get a new hobby, rather than trolling the posters here.
    ///

    Guy’s nuts.

  94. J. Alfred Prufrock April 30th, 2012 at 10:41 am

    Against All Odds April 30th, 2012 at 10:22 am
    JAP check out the vid I posted on the previous post.
    ///

    I’ll take a look, thanks Odds :D

  95. Against All Odds April 30th, 2012 at 10:42 am

    Ok but you won’t be happy though

  96. blake April 30th, 2012 at 10:43 am

    “Nunez should be groomed to replace Swisher next year in RF.”

    The Yankees as we knew them will be gone if that happens.

  97. yankeefeminista April 30th, 2012 at 10:43 am

    The key is to keep the young pitchers in the minors long enough to become pitchers instead of just throwers. Obviously trying to teach them in mlb is just not working for the Yankee organization. No wonder the rushed pitchers with the highest ceilings haven’t “made it” while the kids with 500 innings in the minors and often the better secondary pitches as a result are better suited to have less growing pains. However, Nova isn’t a prime example because although he did fly under the radar and he wasn’t rushed, he always had the plus stuff and thus had a higher ceiling than under the radar types. Nova just needed to command that stuff better and throw the slider more, a pitch he already had in the minors, but got the chance to develop when he got sent back down. Nova didn’t have to develop that pitch on the fly in the major leagues.

    As for Hughes, he needs a working curveball and if he can’t develop up here, we need to send him down. If we don’t that speaks volumes about our pitching philosophy or lack thereof.

  98. Game of Inches April 30th, 2012 at 10:47 am

    yankeefeminista April 30th, 2012 at 10:43 am

    The key is to keep the young pitchers in the minors long enough to become pitchers instead of just throwers. Obviously trying to teach them in mlb is just not working for the Yankee organization. No wonder the rushed pitchers with the highest ceilings haven’t “made it” while the kids with 500 innings in the minors and often the better secondary pitches as a result are better suited to have less growing pains. However, Nova isn’t a prime example because although he did fly under the radar and he wasn’t rushed, he always had the plus stuff and thus had a higher ceiling than under the radar types. Nova just needed to command that stuff better and throw the slider more, a pitch he already had in the minors, but got the chance to develop when he got sent back down. Nova didn’t have to develop that pitch on the fly in the major leagues.

    As for Hughes, he needs a working curveball and if he can’t develop up here, we need to send him down. If we don’t that speaks volumes about our pitching philosophy or lack thereof.

    ____________________________________

    Agree completely, but I’ll add that the fact they exposed Nova (more than once?) to Rule 5 gives me serious doubts about their philosophy or evaluation of pitching talent. Dumb luck on the Yankees’ part seemed more in play in this case.

  99. Niblick April 30th, 2012 at 10:47 am

    The difference between Granderson and Tex: Granderson had the sense to realize he needed help, sought help, got it, and then had the intelligence to implement the suggestions made by Long. Tex just doesn’t get it. His ridiculous open stance, the absurd bat wiggling that doesn’t allow him to get the bat into a hitting position, the insistence on pulling the ball – none of that will change unless he is both willing to change and smart enough to actually listen to Long’s suggestions, learn, and implement them. And I think that’s where Tex is sorely lacking.

  100. DONNYBROOK April 30th, 2012 at 10:47 am

    This is why I prefer to judge talent with my own eyes. You guys spout scouts and coaches appraisals of young talent all the time around here, and NOW your trashing the Yankee paragons of talent evalution. You can’t have it both ways. Either continue to bow down at their thrown, or trust your own baby blues.

  101. J. Alfred Prufrock April 30th, 2012 at 10:50 am

    the yankees made a fundamental mistake in trading offense for pitching with montero and pineda that’s goes against the formula that has worked for them for 75 years.

    cashman is simply making a mistake in strategy that goes against yankee dna.
    ///

    Good to have you among us again, Randy.

    The baseball Gods didn’t like that trade, either, apparently.

  102. DONNYBROOK April 30th, 2012 at 10:53 am

    “2nd verse same as the 1st”. Move on people. The Montero stuff is like 3 day old fish.

  103. J. Alfred Prufrock April 30th, 2012 at 10:53 am

    yankeefeminista April 30th, 2012 at 10:43 am

    The key is to keep the young pitchers in the minors long enough to become pitchers instead of just throwers. Obviously trying to teach them in mlb is just not working for the Yankee organization. No wonder the rushed pitchers with the highest ceilings haven’t “made it” while the kids with 500 innings in the minors and often the better secondary pitches as a result are better suited to have less growing pains. However, Nova isn’t a prime example because although he did fly under the radar and he wasn’t rushed, he always had the plus stuff and thus had a higher ceiling than under the radar types. Nova just needed to command that stuff better and throw the slider more, a pitch he already had in the minors, but got the chance to develop when he got sent back down. Nova didn’t have to develop that pitch on the fly in the major leagues.

    As for Hughes, he needs a working curveball and if he can’t develop up here, we need to send him down. If we don’t that speaks volumes about our pitching philosophy or lack thereof.
    ///

    Good post. What they do with Hughes will indeed tell us whether or not they have learned anything. The one good thing they have said publicly is that Dellin and Manny will likely spend the whole season in AAA. That’s progress.

    ______________________

  104. blake April 30th, 2012 at 10:55 am

    Wonder if the Angels have chicken and beer in their clubhouse?

  105. randy l. April 30th, 2012 at 10:58 am

    “The key is to keep the young pitchers in the minors long enough to become pitchers instead of just throwers”

    yankeefeminista-

    i agree totally.

    on the flip side, jerkface has put out a lot of stats supporting that most aces came up fast and don’t have a lot of minor league innings.

    it’s possible developing good pitchers like nova and developing great pitchers like lincecum or verlander are two different things.

    i adding if they are two different things, the yankees should probably not bother with developing the aces because they tend not to get them in the first place in their system because of where they draft.

    in other words it’s easier for the yankees to buy a sabathia than develop a sabathia.

    what the yankees should really do is look at how they in a way accidentally developed nova and phelps without really putting all their energy into them.

  106. blake April 30th, 2012 at 11:06 am

    “in other words it’s easier for the yankees to buy a sabathia than develop a sabathia.”

    This….which is why instead of trading their prospects they should buy Cole Hamels…..or Yu Darvish or whoever……

  107. Shame Spencer April 30th, 2012 at 11:09 am

    “what the yankees should really do is look at how they in a way accidentally developed nova and phelps without really putting all their energy into them.”

    :lol:

    Though their success could be contributed to their ambition rather than their ability.

  108. J. Alfred Prufrock April 30th, 2012 at 11:09 am

    Odds,

    I think I’ve heard enough second hand to not put myself through that post game.

    My head isn’t exploding, that happened on Jan. 13.

    Cashman glad-handing in the bleachers though, plus his mock self flagellation, are calculated and transparent. He’s become a comic figure, although he’s smart enough to know there’s a sizeable contingent of Fantasy GMs who think of Cashman as one of their own.

    Those types buy into “run prevention” and probably don’t like players like Montero because they can’t relate to him; they can relate to Cashman and fan their dreams of working their way up from coffee boy to Yankee wheeler dealer ;).

  109. J. Alfred Prufrock April 30th, 2012 at 11:11 am

    Nope, Montero trade is ever relevant.

    They did it, I have to live with it, the Yankees will have to hear about it.

  110. Against All Odds April 30th, 2012 at 11:12 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock April 30th, 2012 at 11:09 am

    Odds,

    I think I’ve heard enough second hand to not put myself through that post game.

    My head isn’t exploding, that happened on Jan. 13.

    Cashman glad-handing in the bleachers though, plus his mock self flagellation, are calculated and transparent. He’s become a comic figure, although he’s smart enough to know there’s a sizeable contingent of Fantasy GMs who think of Cashman as one of their own.

    Those types buy into “run prevention” and probably don’t like players like Montero because they can’t relate to him; they can relate to Cashman and fan their dreams of working their way up from coffee boy to Yankee wheeler dealer ;) .

    ——————–

    JAP you have such a way with words :D

  111. jacksquat April 30th, 2012 at 11:15 am

    I hope Martin doesn’t hit 24 home runs with 100 rbi, or Girardi would not be able to relate to him and be forced to find another catcher!

  112. J. Alfred Prufrock April 30th, 2012 at 11:16 am

    Shame Spencer April 30th, 2012 at 11:09 am
    “what the yankees should really do is look at how they in a way accidentally developed nova and phelps without really putting all their energy into them.”

    Though their success could be contributed to their ambition rather than their ability.
    ///

    Morning, Shame :D.

    That could fly in 2008, perhaps. But at some point, the developmental program has to move the needle.

    Let’s see what happens with Hughes, if he can’t go long again.

  113. Stoneburner April 30th, 2012 at 11:16 am

    accidentally developed nova and phelps without really putting all their energy into them.

    *********

    This is too funny – accidentally develop them – so everyone is moaning and complaining about the lack of developing young pitchers – the Yanks finally hit on Nova and Robterson – and if Phelps pitches well on KC – these same posters will have egg on their face with their complainging about how the Yanks do not develop pitching.

    LOL – people use the SF Giants as the gold standard for developing pitching – yet Jesse Foppert and Jerome Williams are calling and want to tell you have to break a lot of eggs before you make an omelette

    And I love how Chien Ming Wang pitches roughly 70ish AAA innings – yet comes up to the bigs in 2005 and does his thing – yet everyone is like – we are rushing the pitchers if they do not have 170 innings at AAA at the very least.

    The favoristim of these fake fan boys – their constant borrowing from other posts on other sites – the lack of original thought – their constant black and white analysis rather than realizing there are shades of grays and no absolutes – oh fake fan boys – who will ignore next and sleep on a prospect like Tyler Austin – as you did during the 2011 season and offseason. . . . .

    And not one of these fake fan boys has yet to post a link to footage of them scouting a Nik Turley in Tampa – they do not make the trip to see Turley – they do not mention Turley – let alone Marshall’s Trenton performance yesterday – it is almost as if they just primarily look up the stats on milb.com and consult a Sickels or a fangrapsh for their intel. . . . .

  114. blake April 30th, 2012 at 11:18 am

    “I hope Martin doesn’t hit 24 home runs with 100 rbi, or Girardi would not be able to relate to him and be forced to find another catcher!”

    Don’t worry

  115. J. Alfred Prufrock April 30th, 2012 at 11:18 am

    Odds,

    I watched C’s start twice. The smile on my face from that is still there. :D.

  116. J. Alfred Prufrock April 30th, 2012 at 11:20 am

    If Martin hits 24 HR and drives in 100 runs, he really will have turned into Thurman Munson; in which case, we have nothing to be concerned about. :roll:

  117. J. Alfred Prufrock April 30th, 2012 at 11:21 am

    Stonburner,

    Everyone here knows you are certifiable and a troll.

  118. Shame Spencer April 30th, 2012 at 11:22 am

    I guess it just comes back to there not being just one way to develop pitching…

    It seems like developing pitchers is like raising kids or something. You have to treat them each differently based on their needs.

  119. Shame Spencer April 30th, 2012 at 11:22 am

    “I hope Martin doesn’t hit 24 home runs with 100 rbi, or Girardi would not be able to relate to him and be forced to find another catcher!”

    We’d only have to find another catcher because Martin wouldn’t fit into the budget!

  120. yankeefeminista April 30th, 2012 at 11:23 am

    blake April 30th, 2012 at 11:06 am
    “in other words it’s easier for the yankees to buy a sabathia than develop a sabathia.”

    This….which is why instead of trading their prospects they should buy Cole Hamels…..or Yu Darvish or whoever……
    ______
    It used to be easier. Teams locking up their prime pitchers and the new CBA have made it tougher. The Yankees really need to be able to develop some core pitching consistently, going forward. Especially if they are not going to sign the Darvishes and Hamels of the world

    As for the inability to develop aces, all aces are not born aces/future aces and are not drafted in the first round. For example, Matt Moore was an eighth round pick who had no command and a big fastball but not much else. However, Rays made sure he got it right, repeating rookie ball at Princeton (Appalachian League) before they moved him up. I still have hopes we get it right with the B’s and our lower level pitchers, but we cannot rush kids to fill a need because in NY with the “win now” mentality, we are just setting them up for failure.

  121. blake April 30th, 2012 at 11:23 am

    The most predictable way to develop pitching is to draft Steven Strasburgs

  122. yankeefeminista April 30th, 2012 at 11:25 am

    Stoneburner, we have discussed Turley and Marshall for a couple of years now. You really need to come up with another angle.

  123. blake April 30th, 2012 at 11:26 am

    “It used to be easier. Teams locking up their prime pitchers and the new CBA have made it tougher.”

    Should have said its more predictable ….not necessarily easier. I prefer the Yanks sign what they need rather than trade their top prospects for it.

  124. J. Alfred Prufrock April 30th, 2012 at 11:27 am

    yankeefeminista April 30th, 2012 at 11:25 am
    Stoneburner, we have discussed Turley and Marshall for a couple of years now. You really need to come up with another angle.
    //

    He’s a one-trick pony, I’m afraid. Although “Waxing your poetics” might actually have been worth it.

  125. Against All Odds April 30th, 2012 at 11:28 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock April 30th, 2012 at 11:18 am

    Odds,

    I watched C’s start twice. The smile on my face from that is still there. :D .

    ———————–

    He was great on Sunday

  126. yankeefeminista April 30th, 2012 at 11:30 am

    As I’ve said before, C. is a force of nature. :)

  127. yankeefeminista April 30th, 2012 at 11:31 am

    blake, me too.

  128. J. Alfred Prufrock April 30th, 2012 at 11:36 am

    Odds, I’m pretty relaxed about starters 1-3. It’s a better staff than last year’s.

    Andy coming back and being Andy would seal the deal, and No. 5 starters don’t see the postseason. I’m confident Phelps can provide yeoman work plus, any way. Get Hughes down and to work in Tampa.

  129. yankeefeminista April 30th, 2012 at 11:37 am

    “it’s possible developing good pitchers like nova and developing great pitchers like lincecum or verlander are two different things.”

    The ones that were born aces (from the womb!!) you mean? Yeah, would love to get my hands on one of them… but I am not holding my breath. (And I won’t mention Gerrit Cole and the what ifs….)

  130. rl1856 April 30th, 2012 at 11:37 am

    Phelps and Mitchell seem to be good kids. As long as Phelps can give us 5ip+ to a mid 4 ERA he will keep us in games and be an upgrade over Garcia. If Mitchell can do what Phelps has done in the ML so far than this too is an upgrade.

  131. Stoneburner April 30th, 2012 at 11:39 am

    yankeefeminista April 30th, 2012 at 11:25 am
    Stoneburner, we have discussed Turley and Marshall for a couple of years now. You really need to come up with another angle.

    *********

    Revisionist history – Marshall was briefly touched on during ST – Turley was originally dismissed by the blog b/c of lack of velocity – and not a mention of him after his hand injury last year – no mention at all during the offseason – and yet – even this year – it is the constant Dealin Dellin and so forth – Cotham is once again healthy – yet Caleb gets no early return love – the elitist have their favorites – it is Montero Montero Montero – but an Austin – who many slept on – begins to emerge – and no one really goes to a Charleston game to see him in person – yet rather watch from milb.com video and follow the milb stats – - – - oh fan boys – be on the lookout for who the stripes with plus identify for you to be on the lookout next – how long before you ignore and do not watch Rutckyj in EST – play your favoritism – discount a Phelps or a Turley – and concentrate on the prospects the fangraphs tell you to – - – - the Austin oversight will haunt these fan boys for a long time. . . . . .

  132. randy l. April 30th, 2012 at 11:39 am

    “This….which is why instead of trading their prospects they should buy Cole Hamels…..or Yu Darvish or whoever……”

    blake-

    i’ve never expressed a darvish opinion before, but obviously if the yankees aren’t going to draft low, they probably need to spend money to get aces.

  133. jacksquat April 30th, 2012 at 11:43 am

    blake April 30th, 2012 at 11:23 am
    The most predictable way to develop pitching is to draft Steven Strasburgs

    If the Yankees did what the Nationals did, all we’d hear about is that he was bought up too soon, and mishandled which led to an arm injury.

    No thanks!

  134. yankeefeminista April 30th, 2012 at 11:50 am

    Even though the pitching matchup says Nuding on the TYanks website, Pettitte is starting for Tampa Yankees at Dunedin tonight–6:30 p.m. start.

  135. randy l. April 30th, 2012 at 11:52 am

    yankeefeminista-

    the yankees can develop a guy like matt moore, but i think part of the problem is they literally fired the guy who worked with matt moore as he made his way through the rays system .

    you see a lot of the minor league games close up. do you think the yankee minor league pitching coaches are up to snuff compared to the rays or is that something too difficult to see because so much is done behind the scenes?

    we talked about archer last week. i could tell from a brief conversation that he is getting the rays full attention in developing him. they have a plan with him and that involves establishing fastball command first and foremost.

    i’m just not sure the yankee pitching prospects are getting good simple basic instruction that is well thought out and implemented.

  136. G. Love April 30th, 2012 at 11:54 am

    I wish Cashman came and sat in my section during the game. I would give him an earful.

    Chip made a great point how now Cashman is trying to win good will amongst the fans.

    He reads the blogs. He knows we want to hang him and he knows other Yankee people looking for his head will alert the Stein’s that the fans want to hang him. He’s scrambling.

    I think he also knows that if he someone was a GM of a small market/mid market team, he’d be exposed in ten seconds. Without having Mo & Jeter in the clubhouse to keep the blood lines strong and the pedigree still alive, the Yankees team Cashman would have assembled, save CC, would have been a collection of head cases and people who performed under the value of the contracts he signed them to.

    We give him credit for not wanting to resign Arod, but resigning Arod wasn’t the wrong idea. We needed Arod. Remember, Cashman’s plan was Mike Lowell who was on his last legs and would’ve never been healthy enough to play. He was talking a 3-4 year deal with him at the time if memory serves.

    The only thing wrong with resigning Arod was the terms of the contract. 09 doesn’t happen without Arod in the middle of the lineup.

    Cashman’s idea for 3b was that retread Quad A guy from Houston (can’t remember his name) and Lowell at the time. I think it was Mike Lamb.

    He had no plan and was going to replace our cleanup hitter with marginal aged talent.

    I wish people would stop giving him high fives for not wanting Arod resigned. If that had happened, Cashman would’ve destroyed the team sooner than he’s currently on schedule to do.

  137. yankeefeminista April 30th, 2012 at 11:55 am

    “you see a lot of the minor league games close up. do you think the yankee minor league pitching coaches are up to snuff compared to the rays or is that something too difficult to see because so much is done behind the scenes?”

    Randy, the latter. I am not privy to inside information.

  138. BD (Boston Dave) April 30th, 2012 at 11:57 am

    “They did it, I have to live with it, the Yankees will have to hear about it.”

    ——-
    Yeah. We’ve heard about it, every day. but have the Yankees returned any of your calls?

    Or does talking about it every day here translate to “the Yankees hearing about it” ?

  139. yankeefeminista April 30th, 2012 at 11:57 am

    Randy, Yanks are big on commanding fastball command as well, but that’s pretty fundamental.

  140. yankeefeminista April 30th, 2012 at 11:58 am

    *establishing FB command

  141. blake April 30th, 2012 at 11:58 am

    “i’ve never expressed a darvish opinion before, but obviously if the yankees aren’t going to draft low, they probably need to spend money to get aces.”

    How many #1 starters in baseball were around in the draft when the Yankees had their first pick? More aces in baseball were first round picks than it may seem…..if you made a list of the top 25 pitchers in baseball….my guess is that most of them were drafted before the Ya his ever had a pick…..there are exceptions…..Shields, Moore, Lester…..etc…..but most of your #1 starters were always awesome and were taken high in the first round because they were awesome……meaning there is a lot of luck involved in developing a #1 guy if you’re not getting shots at the very top talent in the draft

  142. yankeefeminista April 30th, 2012 at 11:59 am

    BD, Cash reads the blog, so probably.

  143. blake April 30th, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    “The Yankees team Cashman would have assembled, save CC, would have been a collection of head cases and people who performed under the value of the contracts he signed them to.”

    He may have an opportunity to essential repeat his CC move this winter…..the numbers and ages are very similar…

  144. BD (Boston Dave) April 30th, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    G Love,

    I think you’re spot on RE ARod.

    Terrible contract but not resigning him was really not a good option. It was probably a lesson on what not to do in negotation – ‘course steroids came into play after the fact.

  145. yankeefeminista April 30th, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    blake, that’s why IFA signings have been so important for us, and DePaula, J-Ram and others may still be aces in the hole.

  146. BD (Boston Dave) April 30th, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    yankeefem,

    has Cash said he regularly reads the blog comments?

    Or just referenced (once?) that he’s read the blog?

    I forget what he said.

  147. blake April 30th, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    “blake, that’s why IFA signings have been so important for us, and DePaula, J-Ram and others may still be aces in the hole.”

    True….but that’s changing as well….really sucks they lost out on Felix years ago….

  148. yankeefeminista April 30th, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    BD, Cash said he reads the blog comments; I don’t have a quote and don’t know how regularly he reads them.

  149. yankeefeminista April 30th, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    “meaning there is a lot of luck involved in developing a #1 guy if you’re not getting shots at the very top talent in the draft.”

    Because we drafted low that is why our philosophy was to draft high ceiling/high risk types but the odds of those types succeeding have to be remote. They were still worth the risk though.

  150. randy l. April 30th, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    ” Yanks are big on commanding fastball command as well, but that’s pretty fundamental.”

    yankee feminista-

    yes, but to really stick with a fundamental coaching philosophy is the key. i get the feelings the rays really do a better job of sticking to what needs to be done. you have to look at the whole body of work to really know of course.

    with archer for example, he could get better results right now going to his slider more, but would that really help him in the long run ? if archer were a yankee would they be letting him throw his slider more and get better results and thus be a better looking prospect stat-wise ?

    so many times with yankee prospects we hear that cliche that they have nothing else to learn at the minor league level. is this because the yankees are letting them pile up nice looking stats by throwing only pitches that are effective ?

    what about other pitches they are going to need? i realize that there is no easy answer to whether the rays are better at developing pitchers, but i think they probably are.

  151. yankeefeminista April 30th, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    :arrow:

  152. BD (Boston Dave) April 30th, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    Thanks YF.

    I guess if he’s read them at all he’s we’ll aware of the population that want him fired, stoned, killed (yes, there was one troll that went that far), etc.

    But by all means, let’s be productive and make sure he hears about it every day as many times as possible.

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