A new world for Robertson and the Yankees
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on May 09, 2012 
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Last night brought a new reality for the Yankees, and that reality will probably linger into the foreseeable future. Mariano Rivera needs surgery, Dave Robertson is the new closer, and Brian Cashman is not actively looking for any sort of replacement.
“I have no interest in going outside the organization, put it that way,” Cashman said. “It doesn’t mean that we won’t do that at some point, but it’s not something I want to do. That’s certainly not something I’m doing at this stage. I haven’t made any phone calls.”
The Yankees late innings will fall to Robertson and Rafael Soriano, both accomplished pitcher in their own right, but neither one of them heading for a first-ballot entry into Cooperstown.
“I have a ton of faith in what David Robertson is capable of doing,” Joe Girardi said. “I’ve watched it year after year for a while here, but any time that we see someone different than Mo, it’s just different. We’ve been watching this for a long, long time, watching him close games since 1997. I don’t care if the next guy that became the closer — let’s just say, for example, he’s going to end up with 700 saves — it would be strange to see that guy come in and not Mo.”
It will be strange. Instead of Metallica, it’s Lynyrd Skynyrd, and that’s about as different as you can get. But Robertson hasn’t allowed a run in his past 26.1 innings, the longest such streak by a Yankeee since — you guessed it — Rivera in 1999.
It’s going to be different. And the Yankees are going to find out whether it can work.
“You get nervous every time you go into a game, I feel like,” Robertson said. “You still get a little jittery. I don’t think that’s ever really going to go away. I bet you can ask somebody who has been playing for 20 years and they’d probably tell you they get nervous when they go out there. … I think it was good to get the first one under my belt. I’m very happy about it. I’m glad no one scored and I didn’t ruin the game.”
Associated Press photo
luis May 9th, 2012 at 9:06 am
Trader,
Good morning!. About Chapman, no i don’t think we would have our 2nd ace. I haven’t seen him much, but from what i have seen he has control and command problems, a very violent motion (potential injury) and very raw secondary stuff.
Veteran clubhouse…..strong leadership…..he’d be fine……the injury issues would be much more concerning for me.
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You would worry about Hamilton when he is not at the ballpark. NY is a 24/7 party town.
But, not to worry, Yanks won’t sign him.
Trader,
Robertson enters to Sweet Home Alabama. I actually was more nervous when Soriano got into trouble, than with Robertson.
If the WS called Cashman and wanted to get Soriano, willing to take on this years remaining committment and next years $14M if he doesn’t take his $1.5M opt out to make him their closer,
AND offered the Yankees lefty Matt Thornton who has this remaining contract-
12:$5.5M, 13:$5.5M, 14:$6M club option ($1M buyout)
Would you make that deal?
“You would worry about Hamilton when he is not at the ballpark. NY is a 24/7 party town.”
You can find a party anywhere if you want……..
Would you make that deal?
In a heart beat!! I even wrap Sori on gift wrap paper
blake May 9th, 2012 at 9:16 am
“You would worry about Hamilton when he is not at the ballpark. NY is a 24/7 party town.”
You can find a party anywhere if you want……..
============================
Not like in NYC…..When i lived there i could go out on friday night and go to bed on Sunday
Big Boppers- A History of Four Homer Games
For your enjoyment:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/b.....1;mlb.html
“Robertson enters to Sweet Home Alabama. I actually was more nervous when Soriano got into trouble, than with Robertson.”
Its awesome……I was actually less nervous with the bases loaded and Robertson pitching than at any point in the 8th……I just don’t trust Soriano at all…..I hope he changes my mind but I see that set up role as a potential issue moving forward and much more of a problem than closer
Luis-
You’re just a party animal!!
Jon Daniels and Hamilton’s agent are already in negotiations for an extension.
“Not like in NYC…..When i lived there i could go out on friday night and go to bed on Sunday”
You coukd do that in Dallas to though if you wanted…..I know that NYC is the big city and there would be more temptations but if the Yanks signed hin I would hope they would work out a system of support for hin and also put language into the contract to protect them from him relapsing to a point where he couldn’t play anymore….actually my guess is that whoever signs hin will have something like that on his contract…..the Yanks aren’t going to sign him…..but just sayin….
Need some help fans….there was an author talking with Sterling/Waldman last night. Anyone know the name of the new Yankee book? Thanks!!!
Blake , Trader,
I am with you guys on Drob…I don’t trust Sori, i don’t like his body language.. Unknown made a good point last night about losing Mo and what it meant to the in game strategy, it is going to force Girardi to go deeper with the SP or trust Sori in high leverage situations….When we lost Mo we lost two spots on the BP ( Closer and HLRP).
Blake-
If the above trade possibility came up with the WS for Soriano, would you make the deal?
There was some talk about using Robertson in high leverage situations and use Soriano mainly as the closer, which according to Joel Sherman, I believe in a Post article a few days ago, might “entice” Soriano to opt out and seek a long term contract as closer for another team, especially if Mariano comes back.
How has THornton been this year?
Trader,
In my twenties i could do it, nowadays nah!!…
Blake,
I wasn’t saying that i didn’t want Hamilton on the team, i would love to have him. Besides i think he is over the partying thing. But there is no place like NY to party.
Yankee Trader May 9th, 2012 at 9:26 am
There was some talk about using Robertson in high leverage situations and use Soriano mainly as the closer, which according to Joel Sherman, I believe in a Post article a few days ago, might “entice” Soriano to opt out and seek a long term contract as closer for another team, especially if Mariano comes back.
==================================
This would be a blessing in disguise…Especially since by next season we could have Mo and Ardsma in the fold and probably Montgomerie ready for the show.
Trader,
Probably…..if they’d use the money saved elsewhere…..which who knows if they would though.
Or they coukd make Soriano closer and he stinks and still doesn’t opt out……which is more likely IMO…i don’t think he’s gonna find anywhere close to 14 million on the market so I doubt he’s going anywhere……
However…..I would close him some in certain situations……
luis,
My idea of partying has become making it through the fourth inning of a Yankee home night game. I, too, used to be able to run party marathons, but not any more.
Tackle,
2012 Stats
Y! Fantasy Rank
W-L Saves ERA K
1-2 1 4.15 10
luis May 9th, 2012 at 9:35 am
Tackle,
2012 Stats
Y! Fantasy Rank
W-L Saves ERA K
1-2 1 4.15 10
__________________________________
I think I’d keep Soriano
Thornto was lights out in April, but May has been awful so far. The only reason I brought it up was because Chris Sale has been temporarily moved back to the bullpen because of very mild soreness in his left, pitching elbow, to be the closer.
Matt Thorntons 2012 splits and ealier years if you want to explore from ESPN site:
http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/.....t-thornton
tomingeorgia May 9th, 2012 at 9:35 am
luis,
My idea of partying has become making it through the fourth inning of a Yankee home night game. I, too, used to be able to run party marathons, but not any more.
===========================
Blake-
My hope is that Soriano takes the $1.5M to opt out while Boras works a deal with another team to rework the $14M into a long term deal to close for someone else.
Tackle and Trader,
Thorton wouldn’t be the closer, he would be the 8th inning guy, a role he has excel on. Especially from 08-10
http://www.baseball-reference......ma01.shtml
GoldGlove9486 May 9th, 2012 at 9:22 am
Need some help fans….there was an author talking with Sterling/Waldman last night. Anyone know the name of the new Yankee book? Thanks!!!
—
i unfortunately had to listen to those two idiots last night on my way home from gym, the book does sound interesting, it covers all the yankee years fromm 1903 to present, cant remeber the name tho
also no to hamilton, injuries and his PED cocaine is out for me
if the Yankees want to be rid of Soriano after this season, the smart move would have been to install Soriano as the closer.
Trader,
Maybe….we can hope.
I like hearing Pineda’s dedication to coming back stronger than ever. Use this time to get in better shape also. I still think he will be a productive part of this team for at least the remainder of his non-FA years.
Doc Iac May 9th, 2012 at 9:46 am
Hamilton would be a beast on YS, i also think his partying days are behind him. It’s a mute point though, since he will probably negotiate an extension with the Rangers. But for a 4 year contract i would sign him in a heart bit.
if the Yankees want to be rid of Soriano after this season, the smart move would have been to install Soriano as the closer.
___
And if the Yankees want to win games, the best move is Robertson closing.
Really hope Joba can be back before October.
I have to go, but this article from Pinstripe Alley a short while ago about Reasons to be Optimistic about Phil Hughes is intersting. Enjoy:
http://www.pinstripealley.com/.....hil-hughes
Have a great day.
Other best news of yesterday …..Banuelos has zero walks since coming off the DL……he cuts those down and he will take off.
ac1 May 9th, 2012 at 9:50 am
I like hearing Pineda’s dedication to coming back stronger than ever. Use this time to get in better shape also. I still think he will be a productive part of this team for at least the remainder of his non-FA years.
==============================
Let’s wait until he actually gets on a mound, shoulder injuries are very tricky. We don’t know what we are going to get after it. I had a shoulder injury and still can’t throw over the top, and it was 26 years ago.
Really hope Joba can be back before October.
____________________________________
And that Cashman swallows his pride and lets Joba back into the rotation.
They have enough arms in the bullpen, especially once Aardsma returns.
Joba wasting away in the 7th inning is just stupid, when there are depth issues in the rotation and the Yankees have made it pretty clear we shouldn’t expect another contract like the one someone (Dodgers) will give Hamels.
Take care Trader, see you later
“interesting”
Read the article.
Trader,
Nice link….and I think scrapping (or minimizing) the cutter is key for Hughes….he just throws too many bad ones and I do think it affected his other pitches….on the radio yesterday I heard that Madden ordered Hellickson to throw less cutters recently…..
Imagine if Yankees had signed Ortiz
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....26Cm4Sh98O
Is there some reason why steroids are never mentioned in any articles about him?
Well they should build Joba back as a starter….but they won’t so I hope he can get back and set up
Hamilton would be a beast on YS, i also think his partying days are behind him.
——————————————————————————-
He was caught drinking over the off season and last season as well
Great link Trader….He seems to agree with me in that he should use a two seamer instead, it would help him get deeper in to games and give him a different fastball at the same time to keep the batters off his 4 seamer
Well they should build Joba back as a starter
=======================
+1
Of course you trade Soriano for Thornton. AC1 is correct, if you want to win now, Robertson should be the closer, however, if the 2-4 batters are coming up in the 8th inning you could use him there. You don;t worry about Soriano, you worry about winning ball games
I hope you enjoy as I had a lot of points on last night’s game
http://www.stevewigdor.blogspot.com/
And if the Yankees want to win games, the best move is Robertson closing.
—-
not necessarily, Soriano has been a dominate closer in the heat of pennant race. the man has arm woes last season but seem to have recover some. Robertson should be put in the highest leverage situation as dictates on a game to game basis. Closing a game with no one base often time than not is not that situation. it make all sense to boost soriano’s trade value in a season in which I don’t think the team’s chance of going deep into the playoff are that great with it’s current construction.
Depending on the price, I would be Very interested in Chapman. Chappy reminds me of The Goose in his early days. He was frequently Wild, and No team could decide whether to RP or SP the guy. The Boss got him, planted him in The Closer role, somehow weathered his early wildness in Pinstripes, and the rest is HOF history. I do NOT worry about Chapman’s throwing motion and probability for injury. I’m Not educated in that area, and generally leave that stuff to the Mike Marshall’s of MLB. My One concern with Chappy is his ability to throw 2 or 3 days inna row. Thus far, 2 days inna row has seen a dip in his MPH and effectiveness in general. I believe Cinn has ruled 3 days inna row outta bounds period. I like almost everything about Chapman, and especially the hitters reaction to his pitches. In that area, he is identical to The Goose.
i’ve been reading about the CBT this morning because of the cheap hal talk yesterday.
the problem isn’t so much the 189 million number as the fact that when they did this new CBA they did it with bad yankee long term contracts intact.
so the yankees have the long term contracts hanging like an albatross around their necks .
i’m not sure there’s a way around this unfair tax aimed against the yankees.
player development?
um, as i said before. we may be screwed.
The Genius Maker May 9th, 2012 at 10:03 am
==============================
Good article and mostly on point. Where i disagree with is that Nova Stuff was nasty, as soon as it started to rain, he lost some command and bite of the off speed offerings. The wet weather makes it hard to grip the ball properly, that’s why i think he had some bad pitches, but early on he was unhittable. Regardless, Nova has shown a make up and character that goes beyond his years…He is a keeper and i think he may be even become an ace by the ay he is devloping before our eyes.
You are spot on Tex and Swisher and the send of Cano to home with the infield in. Ibanez homer was the key at bat of the game.
Soriano doesn’t make it simple…
but his struggles at the beginning of last season, his ERA is pretty good. He had an ERA in the 7′s in April 2011. Since then, I believe it’s in the low-mid 3s.
His problem is the walks. Here’s a guy who had great K/BB rates in his career and he is walking way too many guys now.
But Robertson walks guys too. Of course DRob has been lights out, but saying Soriano has been one of the biggest busts isn’t entirely true.
Yes, the Yanks overpaid and gave out a ridiculously bad contract which some of us here stated since day one…. but since April 2011, Soriano has helped this team…
he’s just kept us all nervous while doing it.
old contracts should have been grandfathered in to the CBA somehow.
they could have gotten creative to be semi-fair, but nobody feels bad for the Yankees.
Regarding Soriano, I look back to the guy that chucked for Tampa, and compare that to the guy I have seen for better than a season in Pinstripes. I see 2 totally Different pitchers, and the results verify that observation.
“i’m not sure there’s a way around this unfair tax aimed against the yankees.”
Well first Hal coukd have opposed them…..not that it would have mattered….but whatever ….next they have to just deal with the big contracts they have now and try to run more efficiently in the future……they have to develop players and they have to avoid trading the good players they do develop because those are the best way to save money.
My biggest concern going forward is if the current front office can be efficient enough to maximize a 189 million dollar payroll number……they’ve never had to before……they’ve always been given the extra money to sign a Kuroda…..or whoever they needed…..what happens when that stops? What happens when the team has holes to fill and no money left under the budget? Can Cashman be efficient?
randy l. May 9th, 2012 at 10:12 am
i’ve been reading about the CBT this morning because of the cheap hal talk yesterday.
the problem isn’t so much the 189 million number as the fact that when they did this new CBA they did it with bad yankee long term contracts intact.
so the yankees have the long term contracts hanging like an albatross around their necks .
i’m not sure there’s a way around this unfair tax aimed against the yankees.
player development?
um, as i said before. we may be screwed.
===============================
Randy,
Very good post and spot on on the CBA and long term contracts that are going to hinder the flexibility of the Yankees in the near future. They shouldn’t have counted for the cap, since they were given in a completely different set of rules, there is a basic rule of law that states that the laws should not be applied retroactively unless it benefited the citizen ( in this case the Yankees). I don’t get why they didn’t fight this provision, but is water under the bridge.
About development, i not sure i agree with you. They have had plenty of recent success stories on that front, call it luck if you will. But the basic strategy of rebuilding the farms and the drafting strategy have been both very sound. I would agree with you though, if you meant that there should be a change in the GM. I would put Oppenheimer as the GM since he was responsible for most if not all of those successful strategies. With him on the helm i think a development strategy might work.
Randi, there is no way to spin this except for the fact that Yankees are mostly likely to be saddled with bloated contract when 2014 comes around. It’s a stark reality that if the Yanks are set on the 189 line there probably wont be resource to import ‘can’t miss’ talents via FA which pretty much leaves the alternative of talent influx to player development and trades. but the CBA also severely limits the Yankees ability to procure talents via FA and IFA, which further limits the options of talent inflow. that’s why I think the smarter move would be for Hal and cashman to look beyond this season and start procuring any many potential useful or impact pieces with as possible, they can start doing it by fielding offers for players that might not contribute beyond this season and on the same note boosting values of players they wont be here in long term in order to discard or trade them for future assets. either way, there exist a possibility of couple lean years when 14 and 15 comes around.
Luis, I am a big fan of Nova, in fact last year I was the only going crazy when they sent him down. I have been his biggest supporter because his stuff is good and nobody talks about it. I just thought YESTERDAY he didn’t have his best fastball and his breaking stuff was inconsistent. his fastball was around 91 until he reached back (which was good to see) and he threw some backup sliders. His change was better than ever even though he allowed the HR to Scott on it.
The bloated contracts they will have will be Arod, Tex and CC mostly. Jeter will be in his option year, which will be 8 million. Soriano,probably Mo and Pettite will be gone. Don’t think they
re gonna resign Swisher either. I do see them working out extensions with Cano and Granderson though. I’m sure they have a plan in place one way or the other if they are really determined to get to that 189 mill figure.
Off topic, looks like The Rangers and Devils are headed for a showdown in the Conference finals. Should be really exciting. And imagine if the Knicks can somehow steal a game tonight and get it back to the Garden for a game 6. Boy, would the Garden be rockin. Great time to be a NY sports fan
Cashmoney May 9th, 2012 at 10:32 am
Very good post, the thing is that i don’t trust Cashman to execute such an strategy. He lacks the ability to assess the worth of the players he has (especially prospects) and he is too centered on pitching for my liking, to the point that he might hinder the success of the club beyond 2014-15. In short, i don’t think he is the man to lead the organization through this very delicate transition.
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The Genius Maker May 9th, 2012 at 10:36 am
Luis, I am a big fan of Nova, in fact last year I was the only going crazy when they sent him down. I have been his biggest supporter because his stuff is good and nobody talks about it. I just thought YESTERDAY he didn’t have his best fastball and his breaking stuff was inconsistent. his fastball was around 91 until he reached back (which was good to see) and he threw some backup sliders. His change was better than ever even though he allowed the HR to Scott on it.
===============================
I am also a big fan of Nova…I was mad as hell when he was sent down…I do respect your opinion and if he didn’t have his best FB imagine what he can do when he has it
…. About the homer to Scott, yeah it was a hanging CU, but i do think that the weather had more to do with it than a bad execution of the pitch…Meaning that if he is pitching in dry weather he probably doesn’t hang that CU up the middle.
I don’t have a problem with them focusing on pitching…..it just shouldn’t come at the expense of the offense.
The homer to Scott was a YS cheapy….he left the CU up a bit but that’s a fly out in every other park. The vertical and late movement on Nova’s slider yesterday was very good most of the time…..he did throw a couple that backed up but if he can get to where he can throw that good one every time then his previous ceiling he’s been underestimated
ac1 May 9th, 2012 at 9:54 am
Really hope Joba can be back before October.
____________________________________
And that Cashman swallows his pride and lets Joba back into the rotation.
———————
Joba has a better chance at batting clean up
AAO, thats why i said, and i hope Cashman swallows his pride, which i know he wont.
blake May 9th, 2012 at 10:46 am
I don’t have a problem with them focusing on pitching…..it just shouldn’t come at the expense of the offense.
==========================
Blake,
This is what i meant….I would add that he has been very poor on pitching trades and his fixation with pitching has prevented him to see the big picture ( You know what i mean
) . I just don’t think he is the man to lead the Yankees going forward, he did a decent job rebuilding the farm and selection on the draft though, he just doesn’t know what to do with it afterwards.
Trust me Dallas is a city in which you can find all the trouble you can imagine at all hours. The Dallas Cowboys as well as visiting teams have shown that over the years.
George would have taken the risk of drugs and alcohol with Hamilton as he did with others. I believe he felt it was the right thing to do. Hal would sign Hamilton the day after Hell freezes over, if that resulted in a low, short term contract.
Joba has a better chance at batting clean up
================================
Odds!! hello!,
I hope you are wrong on this, even though i agree with you
Luis,
I think the Yanks need to add someone to the organization that has experience in a small market with payroll restrictions if they are going to be serious about this budget…..because even though they still have the highest payroll…..the big contracts already on the books will limit the available money to spend to that of a small market club….therefore they need a voice IMO who has had success in that environment…..
Trust me Dallas is a city in which you can find all the trouble you can imagine at all hours. The Dallas Cowboys as well as visiting teams have shown that over the years.
___
Dez Bryant?
blake May 9th, 2012 at 10:49 am
The homer to Scott was a YS cheapy….he left the CU up a bit but that’s a fly out in every other park. The vertical and late movement on Nova’s slider yesterday was very good most of the time…..he did throw a couple that backed up but if he can get to where he can throw that good one every time then his previous ceiling he’s been underestimated
================================
Blake,
As of right now, i would say that Nova is our 2nd best starter. The way he has been progressing ( going deeper in to games, adding the slider, adding swing and miss to his game and so on ) we may have not only a very good number two but a potential ace, at least he looked that way to me last night.
ac1,
Dez Bryant is just the latest inthe long line of Cowboys in trouble as the result of their partying. One of my partners used to live near some Cowboy players. Let me just say, they like to have fun. Hmm, wonder if that is why they stink.
Luis,
His numbers don’t show if….bur Nova is the guy I have the 2nd most confidence in right now.
blake May 9th, 2012 at 10:59 am
Luis,
I think the Yanks need to add someone to the organization that has experience in a small market with payroll restrictions if they are going to be serious about this budget…..because even though they still have the highest payroll…..the big contracts already on the books will limit the available money to spend to that of a small market club….therefore they need a voice IMO who has had success in that environment…..
==============================
Who would that guy be?….Would you put him above or in place of Cashman?…Do you think Oppenheimer can fit the bill?
ac1 May 9th, 2012 at 10:53 am
AAO, thats why i said, and i hope Cashman swallows his pride, which i know he wont.
——————————
Yea he won’t budge at all. It’s like Joba ran over his plants or something.
luis May 9th, 2012 at 10:56 am
Joba has a better chance at batting clean up
================================
Odds!! hello!,
I hope you are wrong on this, even though i agree with you
——————-
Hey luis
I was explaining it to JAP and FM yesterday that there was zero chance it happens. They have nothing to lose rehabbing him as a starter. They will need bodies next yr.
I have not had the heart to study the payroll in 2014 and 2015, but some others have and it seems very ugly with the long term contracts in play.
Remember when the Yankees acquired other teams’ good players for money? Now, other teams will be grabbing up the Yankee players from the pool of Cano, Granderson and Swisher. I don’t say they will lose them all, but losing two seems quite possible, and they have no one in the system to replace them.
Enjoy this season.
As of right now, i would say that Nova is our 2nd best starter. The way he has been progressing ( going deeper in to games, adding the slider, adding swing and miss to his game and so on ) we may have not only a very good number two but a potential ace, at least he looked that way to me last night.
___
I think that is a stretch but he can be a solid #2 for us for years to come…
He has to get that WHIP down though, but I think most of us feel that when Nova is on the mound, we have a chance to win everytime. He and CC are the only two that make you feel that way now.
Remember when the Yankees acquired other teams’ good players for money? Now, other teams will be grabbing up the Yankee players from the pool of Cano, Granderson and Swisher. I don’t say they will lose them all, but losing two seems quite possible, and they have no one in the system to replace them.
_____
They won’t lose Cano.
Swisher yes
Granderson 50/50.
Even if there isnt someone in the system to replace Grandy, Gardner can always move back to CF and they can sign a leftfielder for less than Grandy will make…..
ac 1 –
about your previous post from this morning, where you mentioned cash swallowing his pride about joba in the rotation…..
apart from the issue of joba in the rotation (personally, i think that ship has sailed, but that’s besides the point) –
what makes you think that cash is the sole decision-maker on this? i don’t have any special insight into the yankees’ decision making, so i can’t say for sure either….but, to me this statement implies that cash is overriding the judgment of the guys on the field – girardi, tony pena, larry rothschild, contreras, billy eppler, etc… whoever would have input (i wuold guess) on players, what they’re capable of, and their roles. I guess that’s possible, but, it would seem very autocratic, and i don’t know that baseball lifers like these guys would hang around if their opinions were being routinely disregarded.
again, not to get into whether joba should or shouldn’t…. just about the yanks’ decision making process.
have a good day.
“Who would that guy be?….Would you put him above or in place of Cashman?…Do you think Oppenheimer can fit the bill?”
Towers would be good…..don’t know about DO
ac1,
Yes, they can find a left fielder, but not a good one. Swisher has been their most
productive run producer. Granderson their leading home run hitter. Explain how they will replace the 50+ home runs and the 200 RBIs.
luis, i don’t think the current management is garbage but it surely isn’t the best imo. it’s whole package. things like risk management, scouting are vital parts of equation to keep any franchise ticking with a finite budget. The Yanks still enjoys a significant financial advantage over almost all the teams. But they need to approach things a tad differently under the new CBA. I would have gone after Cepedes given the risk and reward and potential departure of Swisher with future in mind. I would not have trade Montero for given the risk involved with the pieces they gotten back, a simple probability assessment. The strategy like garner as many pieces with high returns and limit their potential risk by given them short term contract and hoarding assets to use or trade are all things the NYY Yankees can improve upon.
While I acknowledge that Soriano is not the same pitcher we saw in Tampa, and I of all people can’t insist that he’s going to morph into that since I believe that you don’t automatically transport results from stadium to stadium, I still like what Soriano brings and will have has back until the moment he is no longer pitching for the Yanks. But that’s me. Unless he shows that he can no longer get people out, I think he’s definitely a plus in the bullpen. I have no idea what Soriano would do in a closing situation and don’t even remember if he’s been put in that position in the Bronx, but I’m thinking we’re going to get to see it at some point.
If he tries to close out a game and doesn’t get it perfect the same time – or even blows it – I’m not going to throw him on the trash heap since I wouldn’t have done it to DRob. Extra adrenaline the first time isn’t unusual. If it happened repeatedly, well then yeah, the 9th inning shouldn’t be his inning.
By the end of 2013, the following people expire: Granderson, Cano, Swisher, Martin, Hughes, Soriano, Rivera, Kuroda, Burnett, Feliciano, Garcia
Jeter has a player option for $9 mil below his 2013 AAV or he could opt out. A-Rod’s 2014 salary is $7 mil lower than his 2012 AAV.
They could trade guys like Joba, Gardner, or Logan if they need a couple mil here and there.
Of these guys, Cano is the only lock to be back. They could still sign someone significant this winter if they did their housekeeping properly.
ac1 May 9th, 2012 at 11:10 am
As of right now, i would say that Nova is our 2nd best starter. The way he has been progressing ( going deeper in to games, adding the slider, adding swing and miss to his game and so on ) we may have not only a very good number two but a potential ace, at least he looked that way to me last night.
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I think that is a stretch but he can be a solid #2 for us for years to come…
He has to get that WHIP down though, but I think most of us feel that when Nova is on the mound, we have a chance to win everytime. He and CC are the only two that make you feel that way now.
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I think you are right….But i wouldn’t put it out of the realm of possibility, he has improved consistently to the point that i am no longer willing to put a ceiling on him.
Yes, they can find a left fielder, but not a good one. Swisher has been their most
productive run producer. Granderson their leading home run hitter. Explain how they will replace the 50+ home runs and the 200 RBIs.
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You dont have to replace the homeruns.
Granderson was a 260 hitter.
Find a .300 hitter and he will be on base more often for the middle of the lineup to rbi.
I am not saying granderson is replacable, but i dont think it is as dire as some think…
Yanks 97,
Thanks for that input. I would just add that the key number for AROD’s contract and the CBA is average annual value. Plus, you just listed nine guys on the 25 man roster that will be up for replacement.
Trading the cheaper guys and creating more holes exacerbates rather than solves the problem.
So far this year…Nova’s K rate is up…..his walk rate is down….and his BABIP is up 100 points…..if he keeps pitching the way he has then his numbers will be good…..if he keeps striking out close to 9 guys per 9 and walking under 3…..then I think he’ll be pretty dawn good….
Always trying to look at the bright side, I see that Soriano has pitched in 11 games and recording zeroes in 8 of those games. Ideally you don’t want your RP giving up runs. But we all know that it happens. In one of the games where he gave up a run, he hadn’t pitched in almost a week.
Not so bad I’d say.
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About our SP. Feeling better all the time. So psyched to see what Andy will bring. CC and Nova inspire me. Want to see what Phelps brings next time out, though if Hughes can repeat what he brought last time, and do it the next few times out, he should be the shoe-in. Until Kuroda shows who he really is, up or down, this jury remains out. But all in all, things are looking up. Consistency is what is going to save the Yankees.
Locke, very good post about Ibanez. I will have to be sure to remember your post the next time “The Big One” gets on me for recognizing Ibanez’s worth.
Cashmoney May 9th, 2012 at 11:17 am
luis, i don’t think the current management is garbage but it surely isn’t the best imo. it’s whole package. things like risk management, scouting are vital parts of equation to keep any franchise ticking with a finite budget. The Yanks still enjoys a significant financial advantage over almost all the teams. But they need to approach things a tad differently under the new CBA. I would have gone after Cepedes given the risk and reward and potential departure of Swisher with future in mind. I would not have trade Montero for given the risk involved with the pieces they gotten back, a simple probability assessment. The strategy like garner as many pieces with high returns and limit their potential risk by given them short term contract and hoarding assets to use or trade are all things the NYY Yankees can improve upon.
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Again, very good post. I do think that management is a team effort, but the person that leads it, usually picks the team he is going to war with. I used to be a staunch Cashman supporter, but the moves he has made lately have given me pause. Especially from the decision making process standpoint. I do think they need some fresh blood and a more efficient approach for the reasons that you very well point out.
ac1,
Where does this .300 hitter come from? Trade? I don’t see him in the free agent list, at least one who would come at a price the Yankees would pay.
So happy to see Joe from Long Island. Wish Mel and Upstate Kate would come back.
MEL AND UPSTATE – please come back.
“Trading the cheaper guys and creating more holes exacerbates rather than solves the problem.”
The Yanks aren’t gonna make this budget thing work unless they develop players and keep them…….they are going to spin their wheels if they continue to trade one thing they need for another.
trisha – true pinstriped blue May 9th, 2012 at 11:32 am
So happy to see Joe from Long Island. Wish Mel and Upstate Kate would come back.
MEL AND UPSTATE – please come back.
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Hi Trish,
What happened with M and Upstate?
Luis,
I have defended Cashman many times, but I do now scratch my head at some of the moves and the non-moves. Who knows how the decisions are made. Maybe it is too much of a committee approach.
He gets so much credit from so many of the farm system. I agree it is much better than it was ten years ago, but, to me, a system without one single high end position prospect in AAA, AA or high A is not very strong. I predict that they will be ranked at or near the bottom half next year.
luis, I am only guessing, but I think they probably started staying away when the nonstop controversy about Montero/Cashman was going on. I hope they’ve been reading along and see that things have really calmed down. They are both such upbeat and positive posters, I really miss having their input. Mel was here forever, so it really feels weird not having her around. She and nick were kind of a tandem, playing off each other, and it was a lot of fun to read.
Cashman’s work with the farm looks good on paper and in BA rankings… but what are the tangible results from it?
They can no longer take pats on the back for half-developing someone like Hughes/Joba into something decent or tout a minor piece like Phelps, Nunez, Cervelli, even Gardner as if it was some great hidden gem they found. They need tangible, sustained production from their farm now.
They have nothing even remotely close to the majors as far as productive bats. Their pitching is very much TBD if they can develop consistent ML starters. They have to start getting real production from the farm if they want to make this budget thing work… not the illusion of having some useful players with spotty or SSS results that are made out to be better than they are.
by Peter Abraham
Since last Sept. 1, the Red Sox have allowed an average of 6.05 runs per game. Their pitching staff has a 5.58 ERA and a 1.50 WHIP.
The starters are 13-25 with a 6.41 ERA and a 1.64 WHIP. Sox starters are averaging just over 5.1 innings per start over the last 56 games.
Jon Lester (2-5, 4.98) hasn’t been immune. Josh Beckett (3-4, 4.88), either. Throw in the rest of the prospects, suspects and malcontents and you get a team that has won 19 of its last 56 games.
Obviously none of these numbers are new to you. But it’s fairly amazing that a team like the Red Sox can give up six runs a game for that long of a time. This is not some sort of anomaly or statistical quirk. This is more than a third of a season.
Bobby Valentine didn’t become the Red Sox manager, he became a tour guide at the minefield.
It makes you wonder whether the only solution is a shakeup like the Nomar Garciaparra trade in 2004.
It may sound like heresy to suggest it, but no player in the organization should be considered untouchable in an attempt to change the mix on the mound via trade. Nobody.
Would you consider something crazy like trading for Johan Santana? Or offering Seattle anything it wanted for King Felix? Maybe make a deal with Theo Epstein for Matt Garza and Ryan Dempster?
There comes a time to blow it up and that time is steadily approaching.
At the very least, there has to be a team out there that will give up a starting pitcher for Kevin Youkilis.
http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....ng_nu.html
austinmac May 9th, 2012 at 11:37 am
Luis,
I have defended Cashman many times, but I do now scratch my head at some of the moves and the non-moves. Who knows how the decisions are made. Maybe it is too much of a committee approach.
He gets so much credit from so many of the farm system. I agree it is much better than it was ten years ago, but, to me, a system without one single high end position prospect in AAA, AA or high A is not very strong. I predict that they will be ranked at or near the bottom half next year.
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Austinmac,
To be fair, They picked the best player available with some emphasis on pitching. Remember that given that they ended up in the top of the league year in and out, their draft place wasn’t the best to pick top talent. I think they have done an incredible job given the particular circumstances they had to work in.
As a consequence they have an unbalanced farm ( Pitching rich in AAA and AA and position player below high A ball), but it is a very good farm system.
The problem i have is that they don’t seem to grasp this very situation. They have a pitching fixation that prevents them to see the big picture. If you don’t have a single position player above low A ball, how do you trade the only one you have ready to contribute. And if you are going to trade him, why not a bat which was your most pressing need?
I would like Cashman to be replaced, but by someone who has been around the organization long enough to prevent a panic move. Someone like Oppenheimer, who has supervised the most successful part of the Organization ( farms and drafting ). I would then let him pick his team to manage the organization
EA, you would have to count Montero as a developed player as we all expect him to be productive. I think Cashman has a good head on his shoulders; remember he was not in favor of signing Soriano and outside of his extra players he has signed (such as Wynn last year) he has done a good job getting Garcia and Colon last year; although they kept the wrong guy as I said in my blog. Signing Tex and CC were very good moves and although the Tex move doesn’t seem good right now, it was the right move at the time. The ARod extension of 3 year years when they didn’t need to was not Cashman. Cashman made the good trade to get Granderson here and Cashman made the correct moves to let Matsui and Damon go even if a little early because it is always better to let guys go a year early rather than a year late.
Getting to the cap, why can’t the Yankees go over the cap? Yes that is rhetorical
Now that Selig has successfully moved away from the PEDs issue and the players union is certainly not hot on the trail, I’m wondering who posters think may be using. Anyone?
I absolutely believe that Ortiz is heavy on those milkshakes.
I wonder about Hamilton.
“It may sound like heresy to suggest it, but no player in the organization should be considered untouchable in an attempt to change the mix on the mound via trade. Nobody.”
That should be true of every organization. It’s a business, whether we like to admit it or not. If you can improve your team without mortgaging your future, any team should be willing to trade any player. For example, the Yankees traded Bobby Murcer, and it improved the team a lot, especially when they flipped Bobby Bonds for Rivers and Figueroa.
As Shame talked about yesterday, it could really benefit the team if the Yankees traded Teixeira in the right deal.
That’s the problem. Too many players make too much money, so they can’t be traded.
What’s left is trading top prospects/cost-controlled young players, and that often puts a GM on a slippery slope to losing his job if he gets it wrong.
With regard to that article, Youkilis isn’t bringing back much of a starting pitcher right now.
EA has a point if they are going to get under the 189 then they can no longer just get by when it comes to producing talent.
trisha – true pinstriped blue May 9th, 2012 at 11:42 am
luis, I am only guessing, but I think they probably started staying away when the nonstop controversy about Montero/Cashman was going on. I hope they’ve been reading along and see that things have really calmed down. They are both such upbeat and positive posters, I really miss having their input. Mel was here forever, so it really feels weird not having her around. She and nick were kind of a tandem, playing off each other, and it was a lot of fun to read.
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I haven’t interacted with upstate that much to have a real opinion about her. With M on the other hand i have, and as you say he is one of the best posters around here. Let’s hope they come back. Mel usually would bring some sense to the conversations without being in your face, which was very important to keep the level and civility of discourse in the blog.
Trisha,
Hamilton has always had phenomenal physical abilities. No shakes are needed. That’ s why he was the no. 1 draft pick. Ortiz is a different story. He used, got caught and had no consequences so it would be of no surprise for him to think “why not do it again.”
” I think they probably started staying away when the nonstop controversy about Montero/Cashman was going on.”
i don’t know about these particular posters, but the real exodus took place when pineda went down and then was out for the year.
it may or may not be a coincidence that many of these viewers were die hard cashman supporters.
i tweaked on purpose anyone who left because things didn’t go their way.
and challenged for being weenies, many came back right back
it’s kind of sanctimonious to blame monetro supporters for any kind of exodus on the blog or any continued non participation when the reality is that some people just don’t want to admit they were wrong about cashman and his views on pineda.
I think part of the “problem” with the Yankees is that they don’t put their players under the same microscope that fans do. Tex’s hitting has been a problem. His fielding is superb. It’s false to say that Tex wasn’t acquired for his fielding, in that his gold gloves were as much a part of his resume as was his hitting. That’s simplistic in terms of everything that goes into deciding whether a player should be traded The Yankees show a lot more patience with their veteran players, and I’m sure their contracts play into that. But Nick Swisher was brought back when many fans wanted him riding out on a pack mule. I think the Yankees really have to believe that a player’s best days are well behind him before they consider trading a vet.
Mel usually would bring some sense to the conversations without being in your face, which was very important to keep the level and civility of discourse in the blog.”
Absolutely. I really hope she comes back.
“nonstop controversy about Montero/Cashman was going on”
As I said, I would like a Montero filter, but here’s what I don’t get: no one is stopping anyone from bringing up another compelling topic to discuss, but it doesn’t happen. So if there is nothing brought up that meets that criterion, is it really a shock that some people continue to discuss the enduring ramifications of the biggest trade this franchise has made in at least 10 years, and that Cashman’s record is looked upon in a fresh light because of it?
I don’t think so.
“As Shame talked about yesterday, it could really benefit the team if the Yankees traded Teixeira in the right deal.”
Rich, the more I think about it, the more I think they should be working on this right now.
There are teams that would want Tex. We’re a fickle bunch and playing for Yankees fans isn’t easy when the expectations are so high, but there are other clubs that would take 40/100 production every year and not give a crap about a .240 BA when its coupled with stellar defense.
If you can move Tex, you can potentially get another 3 seasons out of Jeter after 2014 in the IF. Or, you can eventually shift Alex that way if you need to. It could also allow them to retain Swisher, who at least is versatile in the fact that he can play and IF and OF position. We need more of that on our roster instead of 3 or 4 one dimensional players that only excel in one area of the game.
Rich, I refer more to the constant back and forth that happened. I think some people got sick of reading about that and nothing else – but it was coming from both sides. So I am not blaming one side or the other. I’m saying the back and forth was going on endlessly, and some posters just got tired of it.
It has died down, so I am hoping that those posters who may have tired of it come back.
“i don’t know about these particular posters, but the real exodus took place when pineda went down and then was out for the year.”
You guys are seriously underestimating the draw of playoff hockey and basketball – they always come back (RIP morning crew)
randy,
even those who support Cashman either changed their tune on him after this trade or admit that they disliked the trade but don’t want to beat it to death and just accept it.
The number of people who loved the trade outright from day 1 are rare. Even those who are not complaining about the trade are “accepting” it more than embracing it. I’d say though, people don’t want to view discussions about the trade because nothing is accomplished except agitation. The people who want to accept the trade have a difficult time doing so if they keep rehashing it. Ignoring the trade and the ramifications of it is the easiest way to not get upset.
New Post
“Until Kuroda shows who he really is, up or down, this jury remains out.”
2012 era : 3.75
lifetime era: 3.47
let’s see 3.75- 3.47 = 0.28
so i guess the jury is deliberating that one fourth of a run a game before they decide.
okeydokey
the reality is there is no jury out on kuroda.
he’s doing fine.
I think the Yankees really have to believe that a player’s best days are well behind him before they consider trading a vet.
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I am not sure Yanks can continue operate like that and be successful at least with a finite budget and and some bloated contracts for the foreseeable future.
Regarding the MIA’s, all you gotta do is look at the posts today. Guys beating the CBA\189 TO DEATH. Guys spouting numbers relating to BABIP. SNORE and SNORE some more. People wanta talk about what happened in last night’s game, and what to look forward to in the game tonight. With Seattle coming in this weekend, it’s gonna be Montero Hugger’s Greatest Hits non-stop for at Least 3 days running. People are getting bored.
Donnybrook, this has turned into a house of ongoing complaints rather than a house of appreciation. Not everybody gets jazzed listening to complaining.
I agree with you. We used to celebrate the good things happening, like Nova’s outing and DRob’s save. Now they more become the footnotes while posters focus on what’s going to happen in 2014.
trisha – true pinstriped blue May 9th, 2012 at 11:51 am
Now that Selig has successfully moved away from the PEDs issue and the players union is certainly not hot on the trail, I’m wondering who posters think may be using. Anyone?
I absolutely believe that Ortiz is heavy on those milkshakes.
I wonder about Hamilton.
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Of course some are using. With the new micro dosing and newer masking agents some of these guys will never quit. $$$
This is why many guys are breaking down with injuries. You should look up the DL list “rate” now compared to 35 yrs. ago.
As far as Hamilton goes, I’ve always felt he’s done PEDS. Why not, he’s done evrything else.
Someone just got caught ( ? ) a couple of days ago for the 2nd time. He is the third major leaguer to be caught twice. Hardly a week goes by that a few minor leaguers are not caught.