The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Pitching matchups vs. Reds

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on May 18, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The buzz has died down a little, and that might be a good thing for Andy Pettitte as he makes his second start of the season in tonight’s series opener against the Reds.

“Whenever you come back to a place where you’re so well received, it’s somewhat of an event, and there’s a lot of anticipation,” Joe Girardi said. “We got through that, and I think it’ll be easier for him.”

Here are the pitching matchups for the series.

Tonight
LHP Andy Pettitte (0-1, 5.68)
vs.
RHP Bronson Arroyo (2-1, 3.25)
7:05 p.m., YES Network and MLB Network

Saturday
RHP Ivan Nova (4-1, 5.44)
vs.
RHP Homer Bailey (1-3, 4.35)
1:05 p.m., YES Network

Sunday
LHP CC Sabathia (5-1, 3.77)
vs.
RHP Johnny Cueto (4-1, 1.89)
1:05 p.m., YES Network

Associated Press photo

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153 Responses to “Pitching matchups vs. Reds”

  1. Hassey May 18th, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    Reds should have resigned Griffey just for this one series so he can hit his usual .350 with 3 HRs at YS and then re-retire

  2. jacksquat May 18th, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    Most people thought Hughes did well last night, so I don’t know what some of you in your little clique are on about, thinking you know better than everyone else.

  3. yankeefeminista May 18th, 2012 at 12:20 pm

    jack, see my post in previous thread.

  4. Shame Spencer May 18th, 2012 at 12:20 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock May 18th, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    I’m happy with what he’s been doing the past few starts though. I haven’t seen him pitch enough lately, I’m too entrenched in the playoffs right now to worry about the Yankees less than 40 games into a marathon of a season. I only choose to exercise cautious optimism with Hughes because he’s had a lot of ups and downs since he’s come up. Just my natural disposition at this point lol, but I’ve liked that he’s improved when he could have let the world cave in on him after sputtering out of the gate this season.
    //

    Shame, did you see him last night (your Swamp Boys didn’t play last night, did they? ;) ? He threw some down-in-the-zone strikes but repeatedly got shafted on those pitches, building a fake high count. It would have been one thing if Hutchison also were held to the same standard, but those were ‘looking’ strikes for him. Hughes went upstairs to then get out of the high counts, and so it went. He threw a handful of sharp curves yesterday (some didn’t break, but he had a few with real bite and diagonal break) and is consistently throwin his change (think he threw 10 last night), plus dialing it up to 95…. only the most dedicated pessimist, or a blind person would not see growth…

    ———————-

    Only was able to watch him toss one inning of ball. Caught the rest over my shoulder for the most part. We had a pretty bad fire at our house a few months back and are still doing a lot of renovations to repair the kitchen which is what I was concerning myself with last night :/ I tried watching the post-game to get a better sense of how Phil performed and saw he had some zip on the ball. I didn’t see the ump squeezing him, of course, since my attention was elsewhere but I wouldn’t be surprised at all. That’s a whole other rant I’m going to try to avoid!!

    Between the refereeing in the NHL and NBA playoffs and these bozos I really don’t know what’s worse…. does the NFL have the best officiating?! What a scary thought..

  5. Wave Your Hat May 18th, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    Hughes seems to be pitching better, but he still throws too many pitches and gives up too many HRs.

    At this point, 16 months from his free agency, I hope he pitches well for the Yanks’ sake in 2012 and 2013 but otherwise I don’t think it matters that much long term.

  6. jacksquat May 18th, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    Personal because I said “clique”? Actually, it’s mostly just JAP’s posts with this attitude.

  7. J. Alfred Prufrock May 18th, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    Shame, fire? Wow – good thing you’re ok! Haven’t seen much of the Conference Finals, because of baseball. What are they doing? Swallowing the whistle in the third period? The NFL is also pretty miserable when it comes to officiating, IMO.

  8. yankeefeminista May 18th, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    jack, a clique by its definition is exclusive, so not at all accurate. Probably more productive to address individual posts vs. making sweeping generalizations. But your call; I prefer to stick to baseball.

  9. yankfan May 18th, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    fire cashman for this failure

  10. J. Alfred Prufrock May 18th, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    # jacksquat May 18th, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    Personal because I said “clique”? Actually, it’s mostly just JAP’s posts with this attitude.
    ///

    Do you live to chase me around and demean Jesus Montero? What else do you do here? Read back – you’ll find three posts that basically call Hughes a flop. I don’t make up quotes for people. Read more thoroughly, get it right, or knock it off.

  11. trisha - true pinstriped blue May 18th, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    Anyone remember the year the Yankees were 9.5 games out of first and in last place in May of that season? They went on to win the division.

    Wasn’t 2009 the year that the Yankees were 0-8 to the Sux and lost 5 straight games in May? That was after winning 4 in a row and losing 4 straight right before that.

    This year we’ve lost Swisher and Gardner at the same time, both of whom were doing a great job. Our rotation has not yet found its groove, though Phil looked very good last night IMO. We also lost Mo and now DRob. It’s not fatal, but it has a short-term effect.

    If you don’t have patience, baseball is definitely a tough sport to be following. And if you get riled when the team doesn’t perform like marionettes, this is probably not a season you’ll want to stick around.

    Do you love your team only when its winning? Are the players garbage to you when they’re not performing? If you were on a team and were going through tough times, even though you were giving it your best, is that the kind of fan you’d want in your corner?

    Just something to ask yourself.

  12. yankeefeminista May 18th, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    I think Nova will be fine. His overall peripherals are still good: 8.37 K/9 2.93 BB/9 but he has had some control/command issues of late. Still I am not overly concerned. I expect him to bounce back big time.

  13. J. Alfred Prufrock May 18th, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    But your call; I prefer to stick to baseball.
    ///

    Clique? There’s a veritable cult in here who does nothing but troll other regulars and pontificates on how we should interpret and post on management’s moves. They spend hours making weasely, passive aggressive comments about others who are discussing the team. Meanwhile, they discuss the commenters. Says it all. I step over them most of the time. Let them drown in their bile and congratulate themselves that they’re ‘real’ Yankee fans. :roll:

  14. jacksquat May 18th, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock May 18th, 2012 at 12:28 pm
    # jacksquat May 18th, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    Personal because I said “clique”? Actually, it’s mostly just JAP’s posts with this attitude.
    ///

    Do you live to chase me around and demean Jesus Montero? What else do you do here? Read back – you’ll find three posts that basically call Hughes a flop. I don’t make up quotes for people. Read more thoroughly, get it right, or knock it off.

    When you post a bunch of false stuff, like I “live to demean” Jesus Montero, yeah I will call you out. And lol you can’t even make this reply without mentioning Montero. That’s the problem, you flood the board with Montero, at least 75% of your posts – and there are many – mention or imply something involving Montero, Montero being traded is why the team is boring, they’d be much better if he were here, he’d be much better if he were here, fire cashman, my life is ruined because they traded Montero, yada yada yada, all day every friggen day. You are obsessed. Why don’t you leave us alone and stalk Cashman like that crazy lady.

  15. jacksquat May 18th, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock May 18th, 2012 at 12:32 pm
    But your call; I prefer to stick to baseball.
    ///

    Clique? There’s a veritable cult in here who does nothing but troll other regulars and pontificates on how we should interpret and post on management’s moves. They spend hours making weasely, passive aggressive comments about others who are discussing the team. Meanwhile, they discuss the commenters. Says it all. I step over them most of the time. Let them drown in their bile and congratulate themselves that they’re ‘real’ Yankee fans.

    That’s it, stick your nose in the air with an air of superiority and ignore the problem, refuse to look in the mirror, what will get you well.

  16. BIG AL May 18th, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    randy i. -

    In answer to your post to me on the last thread.

    I was talking about 1 pitcher, not the entire staff of the Rays. Matt Moore needs more seasoning, and if you can’t see that, your the baseball dumb ass! His ERA is north of 5, his WHIP is around 1.58, and batters are hitting around .274 against him. So open your eyes and see the truth.

    But what can you expect from a two bit BP catcher that never made it, but likes to give the impression he was a quality player, rather than a low salary hanger-on.

    Now all you are capable of doing is name dropping, and running down the Yankees, a team you purport to support. Perhaps living in Red Sox nation is rubbing off on you, or your just another troll here to cause trouble.

  17. J. Alfred Prufrock May 18th, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    Wasn’t 2009 the year that the Yankees were 0-8 to the Sux and lost 5 straight games in May? That was after winning 4 in a row and losing 4 straight right before that.
    ///

    The difference is, that team was obviously better than not only Boston – even as they were mired in that 0-8 – but better than any team in baseball. Personally, I thought at the time they were still getting acclimated to the new players and the chemistry wasn’t there yet, but that it would just be a matter of time.

    This team will likely/hopefully make the playoffs. They are not remotely the best team in baseball, however. Could they win three rounds, if they get in? Anything is possible. Is that likely? I would say, as presently constituted, it isn’t. But you never know: that’s why they play the games.

  18. Shame Spencer May 18th, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock May 18th, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    Shame, fire? Wow – good thing you’re ok! Haven’t seen much of the Conference Finals, because of baseball. What are they doing? Swallowing the whistle in the third period? The NFL is also pretty miserable when it comes to officiating, IMO.

    ——————–

    Yea I have to admit it was pretty bad. Lucky my brother and I were home when it started (something with the dryer) or it would have been much, much worse. It actually happened before Thanksgiving and the house is still a mess.. but the odor has finally dissipated so that’s been a major improvement. The contractor were half the problem. They tried to rob us by padding their numbers.. thankfully, my dad is an electrician and my uncles are carpenters, so they know how to watch out for that stuff. The way my dad saw it, he knew they were going to pad the numbers a bit but as long as we got everything we wanted who was he to object to them making some extra cash, right? When it turned out that they were then trying to charge US for the basics, he fired them. Now he’s taking care of the rest of the renovations with my uncles (who already discovered these guys didn’t install the kitchen cabinets properly lol). Needless to say, it’s been a distraction :D I liked watching games from the kitchen, my personal haven!

    The refs aren’t swallowing the whistles, either. In fact, I’ve never seen so many borderline/weak calls. The guys in the booth can’t even seem to figure them out. In fact, on a couple of occasions now they haven’t even gotten icing calls right!! ICING!!!! They’ve also had us have a few more face-offs in our zone that didn’t belong there. It’s been an adventure to say the least.

  19. J. Alfred Prufrock May 18th, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    jacksquat, with all due respect, this is a baseball site, not a fundamentalist church where some of the parishioners have strayed from what you think is proper worship. My criticisms of management are within my rights as a fan. You’re bilious rampage at anyone who is angry with management for making a potentially franchise altering trade just speaks for itself.

    I have ignored you, because you just attack people for their views. You don’t like Montero’s name being brought up, skip the posts or respond to the matter. Taking personal swipes at me just reflects on you. If that’s your idea of sport, go for it. But your words speak for you. Now, if you aren’t going to try to engage me in genuine discussion about the Yankees, the purpose of this board, then I have no reason to address you, and no obligation to respond to you.

  20. trisha - true pinstriped blue May 18th, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    J Al – each season brings its share of problems. Before this season started, the Yankees were the hands-on favorites to win it all and everyone (in the media and the baseball world) was touting its rotation as being one of the best, if not the best, in the game.

    Also, Detroit was supposed to be the bomb after getting Fielder. With its pitching staff and then Fielder, I thought they were going to be a major pain in the butt. Cleveland leads that division.

    It’s obviously too early to call anything anything. In 2009, when we were down 0-8 to the Sux, this forum basically was dressed in black. I of course had bright colors on. :) The point is that we really don’t know who this year’s team is, not at this point. And when you’re in an injury cycle and the team is slumping, everyone and everything looks bleak.

    I believe this team, collectively and individually, is far too good to be playing this poorly.

    But as you said, that’s why they play the games. Teams within our own division have gotten much better. We’re going to be playing them a lot. So we can’t count on beating up the teams that we’ll be playing the most.

    If ever Yankee fans needed patience, this might just be the year.

  21. J. Alfred Prufrock May 18th, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    The refs aren’t swallowing the whistles, either. In fact, I’ve never seen so many borderline/weak calls. The guys in the booth can’t even seem to figure them out. In fact, on a couple of occasions now they haven’t even gotten icing calls right!! ICING!!!! They’ve also had us have a few more face-offs in our zone that didn’t belong there. It’s been an adventure to say the least.
    ///

    The icings have become fraught with danger, IMO, since they got rid of the two-line pass. Because there’s no such thing any more, Players don’t have to slow down an straddle the line to stay onside, so the up-ice feed has the player hanging for it going at top speed if the puck ends up heading for the backboards. Nothing to slow that guy down in pursuit, so the defenseman trying to touch up can really get clobbered. Some concussions have resulted in such collisions. I haven’t seen the icings, but maybe they’re trying to pre-empt that kind of thing. I wish they’d just reinstate the two-line pass; it’s causing a much more dangerous environment.

    Heading out. Have a good one.

  22. J. Alfred Prufrock May 18th, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    If ever Yankee fans needed patience, this might just be the year.
    ///

    My patience is infinite, trisha. I just hope management’s is, over the next few years, and they don’t make band-aid moves at the expense of prospective difference makers in the system. I’m happy to see them rebuild the team, in fact. Whatever they do this season, I’m looking at as gravy.

    Good one :D

  23. jacksquat May 18th, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    JAP, you used to make pretty good posts, then Montero was traded and now it seems you can hardly make a post without mentioning Montero. Like I said to you several times before, I didn’t like the trade, but the issue has been beaten to death. You continuing to bring it up multiple times a day every day is just flooding the board, which is not civil or respectful either. So now I mostly have to skim over your posts because I’m tired of the issue, and I’m not the only one. I don’t live in the past. What’s done is done.

  24. J-rays May 18th, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    Boring Montero boring Montero boring Montero boring Montero – boring.

  25. Shame Spencer May 18th, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    The icings have become fraught with danger, IMO, since they got rid of the two-line pass. Because there’s no such thing any more, Players don’t have to slow down an straddle the line to stay onside, so the up-ice feed has the player hanging for it going at top speed if the puck ends up heading for the backboards. Nothing to slow that guy down in pursuit, so the defenseman trying to touch up can really get clobbered. Some concussions have resulted in such collisions. I haven’t seen the icings, but maybe they’re trying to pre-empt that kind of thing. I wish they’d just reinstate the two-line pass; it’s causing a much more dangerous environment.

    ————————-

    I actually quite like the removal of the 2 line pass.. what kills is that the goalies can’t play the puck in the corners anymore. That’s why you gotta love Marty.. can’t remember a guy being so good at something that it forced the league to change the rules. That trapezoid comes out after he retires, bank on it.

    They were so busy trying to make the game faster they did so in the most ridiculous ways… the 2 line pass was only ever and NHL rule, international hockey has never had that rule. They have more ice room, though, which does make a big difference. If we could find a way to get 2 officials off the ice it could at least create some more room for the players.

  26. GreenBeret7 May 18th, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock May 18th, 2012 at 12:45 pm
    jacksquat, with all due respect, this is a baseball site, not a fundamentalist church where some of the parishioners have strayed from what you think is proper worship. My criticisms of management are within my rights as a fan. You’re bilious rampage at anyone who is angry with management for making a potentially franchise altering trade just speaks for itself.

    I have ignored you, because you just attack people for their views. You don’t like Montero’s name being brought up, skip the posts or respond to the matter. Taking personal swipes at me just reflects on you. If that’s your idea of sport, go for it. But your words speak for you. Now, if you aren’t going to try to engage me in genuine discussion about the Yankees, the purpose of this board, then I have no reason to address you, and no obligation to respond to you.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    I don’t care one way or the other about your little spat with JSquat, but, don’t you do the same thing you’re accusing him of with anybody that dares to question you and others about your unholy fawning and worshipping of Montero? Sounds rather much like a hypocrite to me.

  27. Hassey May 18th, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    I feel very strongly both ways – just please don’t get any of your strained peas on me during your neverending foodfight

  28. jacksquat May 18th, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    Hassey May 18th, 2012 at 1:02 pm
    I feel very strongly both ways – just please don’t get any of your strained peas on me during your neverending foodfight

    No way man, I like strained peas. Watch out for the lima beans though.

  29. G. Love May 18th, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    The sad thing is there really isn’t much to discuss with this team right now. The failure of the bats isn’t going to merit any roster shuffling or deals because of the contract/payroll situation.

    Hughes pitched well enough to win against a better team than the 3 he had beaten prior to this but what does it matter when you have a lineup this futile.

    Yes, they’ll wake up and score 15 runs in a game soon and then all the posters in here will do their “I’ll told you so” act.

    But this problem has been creeping up for years now. Tex is on a downward spiral. All you have to do is look at the numbers. It’s not because of effort. It’s because of declining ability.

    The same is going on with Arod. No PED’s and hip surgery has made him a shell of the player he was. He’s not getting Bonds’ record anymore. I think a mutual buyout is in his future in the coming years.

    The team needs to build the middle of the order around Cano and Grandy. That’s really the only hope as those are the only bats behaving like plus prime aged bats in this lineup.

    I don’t know what the future holds, but this team just doesn’t have the juice (no pun intended) to change the trends in the 2 corners.

    What’s going on behind the plate is a large enough sample to know we have the wrong catcher.

    I think the pitching will be better. I think the pen is doing amazing considering.

    I think this offense will have a hot game every 10 games to shut up the critics and then disappear meekly hoping the pitching bails them out enough to win the games when the problem hitters keep not producing.

    It almost feels like a transition year, although with the budget issue and no trade clauses I don’t see what they are transitioning to.

  30. BIG AL May 18th, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    Later folks, enjoy your day.

  31. jacksquat May 18th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    Teixeira is only 32, so he should be able to turn it around. But I think he has to fundamentally change his swing from the left side, I don’t think he can hit well with that swing anymore.

  32. DONNYBROOK May 18th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    - CHAD -
    Please STOP posting quotes from Girardi. It’s the same old Blah, Blah, Blah, every single time he opens his yap. Do some serious leg work and get us some quotes from HANK. At least that would be entertaining.

  33. Yank1 May 18th, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    “At this point, 16 months from his free agency, I hope he pitches well for the Yanks’ sake in 2012 and 2013 but otherwise I don’t think it matters that much long term.”

    Agree.

    And even if he completely turns it around and pitches to a 3 ERA from this point forward, the chances of them being able to re-sign him to market value are slim anyway.

  34. Giuseppe Franco May 18th, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    The front office put a muzzle on Hank a few years ago for a reason.

  35. J. Alfred Prufrock May 18th, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    jacksquat May 18th, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    JAP, you used to make pretty good posts, then Montero was traded and now it seems you can hardly make a post without mentioning Montero.

    ///

    I got to go, as real life is calling.

    I’ve talked about many things here besides Montero; you just have a ‘trigger’ issue, so that’s all you remember. Yeah, I don’t talk about the minors, the lineup, the rotation.

    I also have no obligation to meet your Montero ‘threshold.’ There’s a guy here who mentions Melky Cabrera every five minutes. I never wanted to see him dealt, and I don’t believe he’s going to be re-signed. I’ve told the guy like 3 times I can’t see him coming back. After that, I just move around his posts. If he wants to mourn for Melky, that’s his business. I certainly don’t expect him to stop discussing him (despite them, for the most part, being non sequiturs) just because I liked the kid myself and feel he should have been here.

    Montero was traded in January. The lineup issues we’re having now could have been greatly averted, had he been kept. You think that’s an exaggeration of the impact he would have had? Great. I don’t need your agreement on that, nor do I resent your lack of agreement. Your demanding that I don’t mention Montero makes you some sort of control freak; in fact, I will bet there are more “Montero” posts here about the posters who bring him up, than there are primary posts about the kid. I’m sure as hell not going to count them; there’s far too much weird ‘personality’ discussion in this place as it is. Your ‘trigger’ response to a guy being mentioned is really something I’m not responsible for. If you can’t see that, that’s not going to be a concern for me to make you see it. Have a pleasant day.

  36. Yank1 May 18th, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    “It almost feels like a transition year, although with the budget issue and no trade clauses I don’t see what they are transitioning to.”

    Exactly.

    Remember, after the “disaster” of 08, they had their eye on the FA class and really revamping the team, knowing they had lots of money to spend and top talent available.

    If they are indeed serious about adhering to the budget, the scary part is, this years team might be the best team we see for the next 2-3 years. At least in 08, we had top FAs to look forward to. How is this team getting better next year?

  37. Chip May 18th, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    Wave Your Hat May 18th, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    Hughes seems to be pitching better, but he still throws too many pitches and gives up too many HRs.

    At this point, 16 months from his free agency, I hope he pitches well for the Yanks’ sake in 2012 and 2013 but otherwise I don’t think it matters that much long term.
    ————————

    I’m not sure if Hughes is pitching better or if the competition he’s pitching against is just worse. His 3 wins came against the Twins, Royals and Orioles – really bad teams. He was decent last night – but like you said – too many pitches.

  38. Chip May 18th, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    Giuseppe Franco May 18th, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    The front office put a muzzle on Hank a few years ago for a reason.
    —————

    It wasn’t so much a matter of muzzling him as it is that he became irrelevant. Back when he was doing a lot of talking he and Hal were both running the show – now it’s just Hal. Hank’s not involved in baseball decisions.

    Probably a good reason for that too.

  39. jacksquat May 18th, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    JAP, I don’t “demand” that you or anyone don’t mention Montero at all, just not every other post. Seriously, you talk about other issues but then often you slip in some kind of Montero angle to it. Maybe you don’t realize it.

  40. Against All Odds May 18th, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    How is this team getting better next year?
    —————————-

    Hard to see it getting better to be honest

  41. jacksquat May 18th, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    Anyway, for those saying the team is not interesting, Andy Pettitte is pitching tonight, and if you are a Yankee fan and can’t find that interesting…

  42. RMike May 18th, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    as long as the lineup continues to underperform, why wouldn’t Montero be a central figure here? The reason people didn’t want to trade him was exactly what we’re seeing with the offense now. It’s only going to get worse in the upcoming years too as we lose players like Swisher, potentially Granderson, Tex/ARod/Jeter continue to age, etc. without viable replacements for any of them.

    Montero could have filled one of those voids.

  43. Bret The Hitman May 18th, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    Pruf you doosh I post about Melky in mockery of the Montero nut-huggers. Most of the time I pull out “Montero” from passages written on the blog and substitute “Melky” and add a twist here and there for kicks. But you’re too busy smelling your own poop.

  44. Stoneburner May 18th, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock May 18th, 2012 at 12:32 pm
    But your call; I prefer to stick to baseball.
    ///

    Clique? There’s a veritable cult in here who does nothing but troll other regulars and pontificates on how we should interpret and post on management’s moves. They spend hours making weasely, passive aggressive comments about others who are discussing the team. Meanwhile, they discuss the commenters. Says it all. I step over them most of the time. Let them drown in their bile and congratulate themselves that they’re ‘real’ Yankee fans.

    ************

    Yes – yes – yes – by putting “real” in “” you are meaning the opposite of “fake” – which is what I do – so therefore – you are being passive aggressive – which is what you stated you do not do earlier in the post. Interesting – interesting – I know what I am – and I make no apologies about my rage for this fake fan boy elitist smug attitude – but the sad thing is – you try to pretend your this ideal of how you post – but you are just as bad as I am – - – - interesting – interesting – - – -

  45. Hassey May 18th, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    You think Texeira, A-Rod and Turtle are laughing about how many shares of Facebook they all got at the IPO?

  46. Chip May 18th, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    Right now the only Montero I’m interested in is Miguel, having said that:

    With Martin not hitting, Romine being hurt, Pineda being hurt and Montero being a live body I understand why people are again turning the focus there.

    I would just ask that you keep in mind that while Jesus is batting 80 points higher than Martin his OBP and SLG are .273 and .393 respectively – so it’s not like he would be carrying the club with performance like that and whatever is wrong with Martin offensively, he’s still and always will be the better defensive catcher.

  47. Jerkface May 18th, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    You think Texeira, A-Rod and Turtle are laughing about how many shares of Facebook they all got at the IPO?

    And the rich get richer! Its not fair! I should have been open to everyone! And by everyone I mean me.

  48. blake May 18th, 2012 at 1:52 pm

    “It almost feels like a transition year, although with the budget issue and no trade clauses I don’t see what they are transitioning to.”

    A lower payroll and the hope that Banuelos and the kids grow up fast.

  49. Against All Odds May 18th, 2012 at 1:52 pm

    the hope that Banuelos and the kids grow up fast.

    ———————-

    They are going to be disappointed

  50. blake May 18th, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    I dont like discussing or reading about Montero night and day…..but the truth is that the trade represented a shift in the organization IMO…..its more than about trading a good hitter….it was about refusing to pay money for something they needed and instead trading one asset for another…..

    this is something the Yankees may have chosen to do in the past….but it wasnt something tbeir GM ever HAD to be based on finances….so whether we are sick of the subject or not I think its a potentially telling turning point for the franchise and how it operates

  51. MTU May 18th, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    Blake-

    What.

    No greatest team money can buy anymore ?

    :)

  52. austinmac May 18th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    I had thought that Teixiera was going to work with Long on his left-handed swing this winter. However, when Long discussed who he worked with, he didn’t mention him. That was disappointing that Teixiera didn’t ask for it. While I agree Teixiera is a hard worker and a quality person from all accounts, I think he hasn’t recognized the fundamental problem with his swing. Until he learns how to inside out a ball, it isn’t getting better.

    Until and unless he and AROD put up some semblance of their former production, the offense will continue to struggle mightily.

    I too thought that this may be a transition year, but doesn’t that say they are transitioning into new players. Their are no position players on the horizon, so no transition. Plus, no money with which to add any.

    I am utterly confused with the team’s direction. Who will play right next year, catch and fill in the rotation? Who will play 2d and center if they are unwilling to do long, expensive contracts? I foresee a number of low end players on the horizon.

    In my mind, the new CBA couldn’t have come at a worse time.

  53. UnKnown May 18th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    G. Love May 18th, 2012 at 1:11 pm
    Yes, they’ll wake up and score 15 runs in a game soon and then all the posters in here will do their “I’ll told you so” act.

    ——-

    Exactly what I fear. One of these nights they are going to pound someone and then score 4 runs total over the next 5 games. As we all know that is not going to make it.

  54. theREALkevin May 18th, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    Banuelos is going to pan out I think. Betances on the other hand, not so sure.

  55. darbodla May 18th, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    At some point people will need to stop saying it’s early and admit that we are not the best team in baseball or even the best team in the AL East this year. Hope I am wrong but I don’t think so. And with Hal’s financial clampdown, the aging of A-Rod, Jeter, Mo and Petite and the obvious decline of Teixeira and Martin. The future looks pretty bleak when you compare us to other younger more vigorous teams.

  56. Chip May 18th, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    Blake -

    Again, like you I’m tired of the Montero talk, but I’m not sure I agree with your take on why the Yankees did what they did with Montero.

    I think it was more a question of them thinking that they have this kid who is going to be a good, maybe great, hitter but no place to play him (they didn’t think he was a good catcher and didn’t feel like they could have a full time DH) and feeling that they could spin him for a young stud pitcher just on the way up.

    I’m not sure they made the move because they thought they couldn’t afford pitching so much as it was just that they were of the opinion that it was the way to maximize Montero’s value to the organization.

  57. Stoneburner May 18th, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    blake May 18th, 2012 at 2:02 pm
    I dont like discussing or reading about Montero night and day…..but the truth is that the trade represented a shift in the organization IMO…..its more than about trading a good hitter….it was about refusing to pay money for something they needed and instead trading one asset for another…..

    *******

    Who did they refuse to pay money? Are you meaning Darvish? They did not feel he was worth the price – so did a lot of other teams. I hope you are not implying they should just spend whatever they can to get a pitcher on the open market – especially when the market did not show a true ace like Sabathia during the 2008 offseason. They offered up big for Lee last year – and there was no one of similar status on this free agent market.

  58. blake May 18th, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    Yu Darvish, Cole Hamels

  59. Jerkface May 18th, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    They should have got Darvish. Not only is he awesome but only half his fee counts towards the new luxury tax threshold and did I mention he is awesome? Also star appeal! (and awesome)

  60. Chip May 18th, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    Blake -

    I don’t mind them not spending money on Darvish – he’s a good pitcher but I’m not sure he’s worth the money that he’s getting. Or rather worth the money that the Rangers had to pay to get him.

    And as for Hamels – you can’t make moves (or not make moves) based on who may or may not be available – it worked out once for Cash (not dealing for Santana and waiting on Sabathia) and backfired on him as well (not getting Haren and waiting on Cliff Lee). Who was (or is) to say that Hamels ever makes it to free agency or that if he did he would want to pitch for the Yankees?

  61. luis May 18th, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    Good afternoon everyone,

    MTU!! good to see you!!..It´s been a while. ;)

  62. Chip May 18th, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    Jerkface May 18th, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    They should have got Darvish. Not only is he awesome but only half his fee counts towards the new luxury tax threshold and did I mention he is awesome? Also star appeal! (and awesome)
    —————-

    With the way this organization has been snakebit in acquiring pitchers I’m pretty sure if they had gotten Darvish he would have ended up having shoulder surgery instead of Pineda.

  63. Jerkface May 18th, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    I don’t mind them not spending money on Darvish – he’s a good pitcher but I’m not sure he’s worth the money that he’s getting. Or rather worth the money that the Rangers had to pay to get him.

    2.6 ERA so far and he is 6-1. Worth every penny so far. He is in his prime and he is an established, smart, big game pitcher. No need to develop any pitches, he already has a bevy of nasty ones.

  64. Jerkface May 18th, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    With the way this organization has been snakebit in acquiring pitchers I’m pretty sure if they had gotten Darvish he would have ended up having shoulder surgery instead of Pineda.

    Now this is hard to argue :twisted: So maybe its for the best.

  65. austinmac May 18th, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    Yes, I think not pursuing Darvish is either a real shift in monetary policies or a real sign of shortsightedness for letting Igawa impact their view of Darvish. He was a player they could have had for a pretty reasonable annual salary when 2014 rolled around. Instead of using their finances they put in a silly bid for no apparent purpose.

    The Yankees have said they will be at or under $189 M, and you can be sure every decision has that in mind. You can be sure I believe that is stupidity since a losing team will cost them far more than luxury taxes would. It is my firm belief they will be such a team when they lose so many players and do not replace them with quality.

    And no, no other team is going to start giving the Yankees good, young players for the old guys or those approaching free agency.

  66. RMike May 18th, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    Hamels is available this winter for the taking. A lefty ace, 28 yrs old, with big market experience, world series experience, and an extensive sample size of postseason success. And if you take our his crappy 09 season, his postseason resume is very impressive.

    Yankees would be crazy not to go all in on him. The chances of us having the chance to develop, trade for, or sign a pitcher like him in the future is very slim. I’d also say he carries less risk than CC did in 08 when we signed him.

  67. Jerkface May 18th, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    One of the points I made about Darvish is that as a very young, ace-type pitcher, with his talent level and number of quality pitches, it would basically be impossible for the YAnkees to EVER acquire this kind of guy short of selling the farm. Thats why they should have signed him. Its one thing to argue the merits of dropping 100 mil on a 32 year old, but the Rangers are getting Darvish in his prime.

    I’d pay 100 mil for Darvish, or Strasberg, because the Yankees just can’t get these guys normally. Let alone for the prime age range.

  68. Chip May 18th, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    Jerkface May 18th, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    With the way this organization has been snakebit in acquiring pitchers I’m pretty sure if they had gotten Darvish he would have ended up having shoulder surgery instead of Pineda.

    Now this is hard to argue :twisted: So maybe its for the best.
    ———–

    Nice – finally something you can’t argue with :-)

  69. Against All Odds May 18th, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    MTU May 18th, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    Blake-

    What.

    No greatest team money can buy anymore ?

    :)

    ————————-

    Finally MTU has come back to…..Lohud

    *crowd cheers*

  70. MTU May 18th, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    Luis-

    My apologies.

    We had a guest from back East who ate us out of house and home, and who insisted on going hiking and taking pictures neither of which I have any interest in.

    ;)

  71. theREALkevin May 18th, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    Passing on Darvish was a huge mistake. Everything pointed to him being good. It would have been a smart move. He’s young (25 years old), he’s big (6’5), throws hard, and has an arsenal of pitches at his disposal. He also completely dominated a league that is decent. He had a ton of attributes in his favor. You can’t try to outsmart yourself all the time.

  72. Against All Odds May 18th, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    Yankees would be crazy not to go all in on him.

    ——————–

    Well they are going to be crazy because they’re going to pass on him which means CC once again has to wear the Superman cape

  73. Rich in NJ May 18th, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    “One of the points I made about Darvish is that as a very young, ace-type pitcher, with his talent level and number of quality pitches, it would basically be impossible for the YAnkees to EVER acquire this kind of guy short of selling the farm.”

    Young, but yet old enough to be just about past the age when pitchers are more susceptible to injury. Almost the best possible starting pitching acquisition.

    They should have been planning their budget years in advance in anticipation of making a bold bid.

  74. MTU May 18th, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    AAO-

    That JCPD feller could wear a person out.

    Looks like this slump has put a lot of people in a foul mood.

  75. Hassey May 18th, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    Sounds to me like this blog is itself entering a transition year…the venom here is fantastic – sort of like a big family picnic where cousin brucie pours grain alcohol in the bowl of Ensure

  76. G. Love May 18th, 2012 at 2:37 pm

    Really the only transition the Yankees have for the future is to get a new RF, C, 3b or DH. Those are the only positions they can make moves from.

    They could trade Gardner, but he’s not getting through a full season healthy. He really isn’t. He gets hurt and disappears every season now.

    With the budget, the best options for RF, 3b and C will be the likes of Cody Ross types. Guys who are looking to rebuild value.

    In that scenario, you have to be lucky as well as right since sometimes you get Freddy Garcia 2011 and sometimes you get Freddy Garcia 2012.

    What the team needs to do is be proactive with Arod. If this season does not show a return to power, I think they should reach out to him to gauge how much longer he really wants to play and how to transition out of that financially.

    Texeira is a lost cause. I predict within 2 years he’ll have either a platoon partner or we’ll have a new 1b. Yankee fans & media are zeroing in on him. It’s going to get ugly.

    Swisher’s gone. I think they’ll come up with the cash to keep Grandy and Cano. I think Martin has played himself into a one year 5 million dollar deal that the Yankees will happily give him.

    There’s just not a lot of room for change here. We should be looking at 3b, C and corner OF types. That’s the only places this team can change and by the looks of thing the help isn’t there in those areas on the farm which leads me to believe Cashman is going to deal to fix those spots since he can’t spend.

  77. theREALkevin May 18th, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    Not sure if this has been mentioned but Kerry Wood is going to retire. He was really really good in his one season with the Yanks. Best of luck to him in the future.

  78. Rich in NJ May 18th, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    Transition years can be healthy. Trying to short-circuit them by doubling down on burning young players when the ML roster has important areas of age/decline can be deadly.

  79. Against All Odds May 18th, 2012 at 2:43 pm

    MTU May 18th, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    AAO-

    That JCPD feller could wear a person out.

    Looks like this slump has put a lot of people in a foul mood.

    ————————–

    Yea everyone is a little on edge

  80. MTU May 18th, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    G. Love has nailed it IMO.

    Logic dictates that if you are not going to spend and you have needs to fill then you must try to trade for them.

  81. Hassey May 18th, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    Maybe the Yankees really should consider changing their costumes to cotton?

  82. Chip May 18th, 2012 at 3:08 pm

    As I said before, I don’t blame Cashman for making bad trades or signings that don’t work out. I think his greater failure is his inability to surround himself and fill the team’s coaching ranks with the best and brightest.

    They have some very talented people, there’s no doubt of that – their amateur scouting department, Kevin Long, I’m sure some of the minor league guys – they’re very good. But there must be some flaw in how they are evaluating players that they keep bringing in guys who are unable to perform as Yankees despite a history of performance elsewhere.

    It isn’t a bad thing that he signed AJ Burnett – the problem is that Cashman likely leaned on the same guy who told him to sign Burnett when he was making the trade for Javy Vazquez or signing Hiroki Kuroda. It’s not Cashman’s fault that Phil Hughes and Joba will never reach the levels they were supposed to, but it is Cashman’s fault that he’s entrusting two more high ceiling prospect pitchers to the same development people.

    That’s where Brian needs to get better – if you’re not going to be able to pay to cover up the mistakes then you need to surround yourself with the best and brightest scouts and development people in the game so that your odds of developing your prospects to reach their maximum potential are as high as possible and that your odds of making costly mistakes in free agency and on the trade market are low.

    I’ve often said that if I was Cashman I would find the best pitching coach around – whether that’s Dave Duncan, Leo Mazzone, Rick Peterson, Mike Maddux, whomever, let him set the organizational philosophy on how all pitching prospects should be brought along, hire the coaches for the different levels and set up shop in Tampa traveling as he sees fit to work with the club’s top prospects throughout the season and evaluate their progress and alter their routines accordingly.

  83. mick May 18th, 2012 at 3:17 pm

    names from the past: Bernie,Tino,Posada,Darryl,Brosius,Raines
    4 titles
    today we have:Alex,Martin, Swisher,Jones,Tex
    these guys won one

    Is it a coincidence?

    We were loaded with gamers on the mound too, that helped.

  84. mick May 18th, 2012 at 3:18 pm

    Maybe the Yankees really should consider changing their costumes to cotton?
    ====================
    Hire COSTANZA.

  85. trisha - true pinstriped blue May 18th, 2012 at 3:18 pm

    OT – jerkface or anyone else who is computer savy. Every time I do a google search and then try to link to what I want, it takes me to some stupid ass screen that has different links on it! It either shows an IP address in the address bar, or I get this address: http://www1.neweygg.com/

    This is driving me BONKERS. Does anyone know what the heck?

  86. mick May 18th, 2012 at 3:19 pm

    Logic dictates that if you are not going to spend and you have needs to fill then you must try to trade for them.
    ============
    That’s where the creativity comes in.
    Not the same as picking up parts from the scrap heap.

  87. Shame Spencer May 18th, 2012 at 3:19 pm

    Chip – Can we please sign David Wright?? :(

  88. Jerkface May 18th, 2012 at 3:20 pm

    You have a virus/you’re on a bad internet (if in public) and could potentially be the victim of identity theft

    Depending on where you are browsing from, you probably have a virus or a form of malware that is redirecting you.

  89. Shame Spencer May 18th, 2012 at 3:20 pm

    trisha – It sounds like a virus to be honest. You probably have to run some anti-maleware/spyware program.

  90. Shame Spencer May 18th, 2012 at 3:21 pm

    It happened to me once. I got some SpyBot program and it cleared it up.

  91. LGY May 18th, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    As I said before, I don’t blame Cashman for making bad trades or signings that don’t work out. I think his greater failure is his inability to surround himself and fill the team’s coaching ranks with the best and brightest.

    ——–

    So everytime the Yankees make a mistake the lower ranking officials should take the hit?

  92. trisha - true pinstriped blue May 18th, 2012 at 3:23 pm

    Thanks guys.

    :(

  93. yankeefeminista May 18th, 2012 at 3:23 pm

    Mason with a triple. :)

  94. mick May 18th, 2012 at 3:25 pm

    You probably have to run some anti-maleware/spyware program.
    =========================
    trisha is anti-male?

  95. UnKnown May 18th, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....sox-051812

    Yankees not involved. This is good. Don’t need another pitcher who is not going to be anything but just average this year.

  96. Chip May 18th, 2012 at 3:27 pm

    LGY May 18th, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    As I said before, I don’t blame Cashman for making bad trades or signings that don’t work out. I think his greater failure is his inability to surround himself and fill the team’s coaching ranks with the best and brightest.

    ——–

    So everytime the Yankees make a mistake the lower ranking officials should take the hit?
    ——————-

    I think if you’re asking the same guy for his opinions on what pitchers to acquire and the names he has come back with are Burnett, Vazquez, Kuroda – then maybe it’s time to find some new advisers wouldn’t you agree?

    Of course Cashman should take a hit; but I don’t expect one person to have in depth knowledge on every player in the league – that’s what he has scouts for. Now if Brian is too blinded by loyalty or ineptitude to realize that the same people are giving him bad advise year after year – then that’s absolutely something the organization needs to address.

    I’m just saying that getting some new evaluators in might make their personnel decisions better and getting some new development people in might make their results with their prospects better as well.

  97. Jeremy May 18th, 2012 at 3:28 pm

    mick

    Well you make a good point. those guys were gamer’s with heart unlike the overpaid guys we have today. Also I blame Cashman for his inability to deliver players that fit the yankees needs.

  98. mick May 18th, 2012 at 3:30 pm

    jeremy

    is there a tattoo correlation?

  99. Jeremy May 18th, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    How does Cashman not get the blame for signing busts after busts and making stupid ridiculous trades with relatively little success ?

    The guy needs to be held accountable for his failures when he is the one making the decisions. The excuses for Cashman have run out.

  100. Chip May 18th, 2012 at 3:33 pm

    Jeremy May 18th, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    How does Cashman not get the blame for signing busts after busts and making stupid ridiculous trades with relatively little success ?

    The guy needs to be held accountable for his failures when he is the one making the decisions. The excuses for Cashman have run out.
    ——————–

    My point isn’t that Cashman’s blameless. But if you fire Cashman, promote someone like Eppler or Newman or Oppenheimer and leave everyone else in place then you’re going to get the same results regardless of who holds the title of GM.

    If, on the other hand, you replace the people who are passing bad advise onto Cashman then you’re going to get better results with your personnel decisions.

  101. mick May 18th, 2012 at 3:36 pm

    Cash has set himself up for a major fall.
    Again, he is good at shopping at garage sales but teams aren’t throwing away good pitchers.
    He got lucky with Garcia, Colon, Wade and Logan but failed on so many more esp big name guys.
    Aside from the fact that he serves Hal well, a guy like Alderson might be needed to reconstruct this team. But he might demand too much power.

  102. Frankg May 18th, 2012 at 3:36 pm

    Can’t wait. A few more lackluster starts for Pettite like the last one in NY and the one for Scranton and the Yankees will feel that they hired a high paid batting practice pitcher. Why anyone would want to pitch at the ML level before they’re fully ready is beyond me. It must make the other players feel rather small to have to endure this test period. Prove you’re ready and then pitch, not get ready(hopefully) at the team’s expense. Very poor management decision here.

  103. Rich in NJ May 18th, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    You definitely don’t fire Cashman only to replace him with someone whose views he has relied on in his decision-making.

    If it happens, they need someone from the outside.

  104. Jeremy May 18th, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    The only good trades I can recall Cashman making : the trade for Granderson, the trade for Abreu, the David Wells for Roger Clemens trade, and the trade for David Justice.

  105. mick May 18th, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    If they fall, Cash will be the 1st to go and his off field antics didn’t help.

  106. Chip May 18th, 2012 at 3:38 pm

    mick May 18th, 2012 at 3:36 pm

    Cash has set himself up for a major fall.
    Again, he is good at shopping at garage sales but teams aren’t throwing away good pitchers.
    He got lucky with Garcia, Colon, Wade and Logan but failed on so many more esp big name guys.
    Aside from the fact that he serves Hal well, a guy like Alderson might be needed to reconstruct this team. But he might demand too much power.
    —————–

    So every good move was luck but every bad move was ineptitude? It doesn’t work that way Mick. If you’re going to hold him responsible for the bad moves, the Javy Vazquez and AJ Burnett deals then you have to give him credit for the good ones like Curtis Granderson and CC Sabathia.

  107. Chip May 18th, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    Rich in NJ May 18th, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    You definitely don’t fire Cashman only to replace him with someone whose views he has relied on in his decision-making.

    If it happens, they need someone from the outside.
    ————-

    Agreed – if you’re going to remove Cashman then you need to clean house. You let the new GM come in and decide who stays and who goes up to and including the manager. If he wants Oppenheimer, Eppler, Newman, Girardi, etc…then they stay…if he doesn’t then they go and that’s that.

  108. mick May 18th, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    Of course you do Chip but it isn’t always fair in life or baseball.
    I’m not condemning Cash but Hal might.

  109. Jeremy May 18th, 2012 at 3:42 pm

    Chip

    Okay I see your point and I agree. They should just clean house.
    The Yankees management showed the baseball world that they were truly incompetent when they went after Kei Igawa and the scouts said his stuff would translate well.

  110. mick May 18th, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    That was a manic session that went on in here earlier this afternoon.
    There are definitely personality conflicts that exist here.
    Seems too easy to call out those for being trolls when the same troll-like behavior emanates from the name callers.

  111. Chip May 18th, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    Jeremy May 18th, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    The only good trades I can recall Cashman making : the trade for Granderson, the trade for Abreu, the David Wells for Roger Clemens trade, and the trade for David Justice.
    —————-

    Robin Ventura for Justice
    Aaron Boone for Claussen
    Alex for Soriano
    Knoblauch for Milton and Guzman
    Swisher for Marquez
    Lilly and Westbrook for Irabu
    Brosius for Rogers

  112. Bo knows May 18th, 2012 at 3:45 pm

    Okay I see your point and I agree. They should just clean house.
    The Yankees management showed the baseball world that they were truly incompetent when they went after Kei Igawa and the scouts said his stuff would translate well.

    ————————-
    A lot of mouth and very little knowledge. Try for the opposite, it’ll be more relevant.

  113. Wave Your Hat May 18th, 2012 at 3:45 pm

    “If, on the other hand, you replace the people who are passing bad advise onto Cashman then you’re going to get better results with your personnel decisions.”

    Or worse ones.

    You people are nuts. Given Cashman’s results, any replacement would almost certainly perform worse.

    The problems you see are problems inherent in a team which has been good for a long time but which now faces declining production from established stars.

  114. Against All Odds May 18th, 2012 at 3:46 pm

    I’ve often said that if I was Cashman I would find the best pitching coach around – whether that’s Dave Duncan, Leo Mazzone, Rick Peterson, Mike Maddux, whomever, let him set the organizational philosophy on how all pitching prospects should be brought along, hire the coaches for the different levels and set up shop in Tampa traveling as he sees fit to work with the club’s top prospects throughout the season and evaluate their progress and alter their routines accordingly.

    —————————–

    This should happen immediately

  115. Frankg May 18th, 2012 at 3:47 pm

    The Granderson trade was not so hot when you consider they gave up a top flite pitcher in Kennedy and two other major leaguers in Austin Jackson and Phil Coke. Granderson could not hit left handers when they got him and Kevin Long had to work with him for some time.

    Cashman last good trade was the one for Swisher. He seems good at finding talent on the scarp heap–Colon, Garcia, Wade and Ayala. He is also good at signing people whose arms are about to blow up—Marte, Feliciano, and Pineada.

    I think the Yankees could do better.

  116. Chip May 18th, 2012 at 3:48 pm

    Jeremy May 18th, 2012 at 3:42 pm

    Chip

    Okay I see your point and I agree. They should just clean house.
    The Yankees management showed the baseball world that they were truly incompetent when they went after Kei Igawa and the scouts said his stuff would translate well.
    —————-

    I don’t know that they have to go that far either – I think if Cashman can’t identify the changes within his house that need to be made, then yes you clean house – but give him the opportunity to make the moves that need to be made.

    Changing the players is very hard and if you’re making those decisions based on bad information then you’re not helping your organization. If the changes are deeper, more to the philosophical core of the franchise – then that’s where you improve yourself long term.

  117. mick May 18th, 2012 at 3:48 pm

    I don’t see Hal as a good owner.
    He goes against the Yankee philosophy.

  118. mick May 18th, 2012 at 3:50 pm

    Cash is not changing anything.
    The IF is set as is CF.
    Swish is gone and maybe Gardner.
    Martin is a ?
    No room for wholesale change.

  119. Chip May 18th, 2012 at 3:51 pm

    Wave Your Hat May 18th, 2012 at 3:45 pm

    “If, on the other hand, you replace the people who are passing bad advise onto Cashman then you’re going to get better results with your personnel decisions.”

    Or worse ones.

    You people are nuts. Given Cashman’s results, any replacement would almost certainly perform worse.

    The problems you see are problems inherent in a team which has been good for a long time but which now faces declining production from established stars.
    ——————

    I also don’t disagree with that. However, I won’t dispute anyone who suggests that Cashman has benefited by having the financial ability to bury his mistakes. Also, for all his successes, there has to be some reason why this organization has not been able to develop a pitcher who has had long term success since Andy came up in 1995.

  120. Frankg May 18th, 2012 at 3:51 pm

    How about Carl Pavano, Randy Winn, Javier Vasquez, and Kevin Brown?

  121. Bo knows May 18th, 2012 at 3:52 pm

    The problems you see are problems inherent in a team which has been good for a long time but which now faces declining production from established stars.

    ——————–
    Amen.

    Budget limits and interference by the suits as in Alex and Soriano. The 189 budget eliminates long term contracts. The only hope the Yankees have is Cashman building ‘from scratch’ a complete scouting system. Big George had fired the scouting staff because they made too much money.

    Oppenheirmer was given a chance for success by Cashman. You can’t praise Oppenheimer and knock Cashman.

  122. mick May 18th, 2012 at 3:52 pm

    I could really see Hal promoting from within .
    TB and KC come to mind.
    Small market comes to mind.
    That could be a disaster waiting to happen.

  123. Jeremy May 18th, 2012 at 3:53 pm

    Chip
    Yeah there were a few more trades that I forgot to list.

  124. RMike May 18th, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    How do we know which pre-2006 decisions were Cashman, George, or Tampa? Seems kind of unfair to pin all the ones that turned out OK on Cashman and the ones that turned out poorly on others.

  125. mick May 18th, 2012 at 3:55 pm

    How about Carl Pavano, Randy Winn, Javier Vasquez, and Kevin Brown?
    =========================
    What about Randy Johnson?
    He was a grasp at an old straw, not bad but over the hill.

  126. Yanks78 May 18th, 2012 at 3:56 pm

    “The problems you see are problems inherent in a team which has been good for a long time but which now faces declining production from established stars.”

    And a sudden budget constraint that prevents them from their primary course of action over the past 15 years – signing the best free agents when there is a need.

    No longer can they just replace Kuroda with Hamels, Martin with M. Montero, and Swisher with Hamilton. If they could, there would be no problems.

  127. Bo knows May 18th, 2012 at 3:57 pm

    That was George at his finest.

    Cashman wanted Beltran and Vladdy. He got Johnson and the mouth, Sheffield.

  128. Benny Blanco May 18th, 2012 at 3:57 pm

    The granderson trade was a good trade! Period.

  129. Jerkface May 18th, 2012 at 3:59 pm

    Vladdy made me more sad than Beltran, because Vladdy’s contract was really good and he performed for all of it.

  130. Chip May 18th, 2012 at 3:59 pm

    Frankg May 18th, 2012 at 3:51 pm

    How about Carl Pavano, Randy Winn, Javier Vasquez, and Kevin Brown?
    ——————-

    When the Yankees signed Pavano it was consider a coup. There were four other teams lined up to give him a huge contract including Boston, Seattle and (I believe) the Mets. Jose Contreras was the same thing – the Red Sox threw a fit when the Yankees got the “Roger Clemens of Cuba”

    Javy Vazquez – the first time – was also considered a good deal. He was a young established ACE

    Winn was a minor deal – something like $2 mil

    Brown was a deal where he was just looking for someone to take Jeff Weaver off his hands.

    There have been plenty of bad deals – but the ones you picked were either good moves that didn’t work out, meaningless moves, or bad moves he had to make anyway.

    Lowell for Yarnell
    signing Kyle Farnsworth
    signing Jaret Wright
    signing Tony Womack

    those were bad deals from the minute the ink was dry – though Lowell was another situation where they thought Henson was going to be the better player and were clearing room for him.

  131. Chip May 18th, 2012 at 4:02 pm

    Every GM in the sport is going to have good and bad deals on his register. But there’s a difference between a good deal that doesn’t work out (the Pavano contract) and a deal that’s just awful from the minute the ink is dry (the Angels trading for Vernon Wells) you have to ask yourself – how many of each of those does Brian have? I would say that most of his bad deals have been of the variety of deals that everyone in and around baseball thought were good moves that just didn’t work out.

    Again, my issue is not with his trades or his signings for the most part – it is with the Yankee player development, especially on the pitching side.

  132. mick May 18th, 2012 at 4:02 pm

    When and if the Yanks go bad, there will be pictures of Cash on the back pages as a sad sack loser/adulterer. Not exactly the face of an organization. The deals won’t matter, the image will.

  133. Wave Your Hat May 18th, 2012 at 4:05 pm

    Chip-

    Since 2005 Cashman hasn’t been able to buy his way out of mistakes because the payroll, while large, has not gone up. So it isn’t right to say he’s just been able to throw money at problems. George was responsible for that, during the period 2001-2005.

    I agree that the Yanks seem to have a mysterious problem with pitchers. The ones they bring here seem to get worse (with notable exceptions), and they don’t seem to develop pitchers, unless you count Kennedy, Wang, Robertson, Nova and Coke. Although that seems like a lot for a team that drafted poorly for about 10 years and signed established pitchers frequently – many of whom pitched well – to lower risk.

  134. Jeremy May 18th, 2012 at 4:05 pm

    I forgot about the Randy Winn move. LOL !

  135. LathamJoe May 18th, 2012 at 4:11 pm

    This Team needs a change in philosophy and, for the immediate future, a change in the General Manager’s Office. Extravagant long-term contracts which pay aging players beyond their diminishing skills, poor player personnel decisions (especially in the Pitching Dept.) and dumb trades have rendered the NYY as an aging “first round and out” team. The only Team in MLB with a $200+ payroll, you should expect more. Yet this modern day version of Rotoworld is second only to the Chicago Cubs in Cost per Wins. I’ve been a Yankee Fan for over 50 years, but even I am disgusted with these “Me-first” “superstars. Tex REFUSES to hit the opposite way, so the Shift will continue to rob him of hits. He still believes that he can hit over the shift by yanking the ball out – but he’s succumbed to age and too much weight loss. Swisher? At $10.5 Million, One of the dumbest baseball men I’ve ever seen. This team is full of players that try to hit the Homerun each and every time at bat – with the notable exception of Derek Jeter. And for all the fanfare given to Cashman for building such a “formidable” MiLB pitching corps….Who? Untouchable Hughes? Incomparable Chamberlain? Those future “Killer B’s” who have been hyped as the next coming of Koufax/Drysdale? (The other “Killer B” – Brackman – is gone now, unceremoniously dumped after he fizzled with a +6.00 ERA and a 75/75 K/BB ratio). The jury is still out on Banuelos and Betances, but they have to deliver on the playing field – which hasn’t nearly lived up to the hype.

  136. austinmac May 18th, 2012 at 4:11 pm

    The concern I have is that all these holes must be filled at a low or relatively low cost. In theory it can be done, but many losing teams show it is difficult. The Yankees have never had to get skilled in that for starter level players.

    The Yankees used to recognize their income is high because of the product they put on the field. If budgetary concerns require many low end budget starting players be picked up, the fans will see it and react. Their is no guarantee of high income. I remember when they drew 800,000 in a year.

    If we, the fanatics of the fan base, are more willing not to watch a game or more willing to turn off the game early, I imagine the less enthused are much more likely not to watch. At some point, that means a lot of money lost.

  137. Rich in NJ May 18th, 2012 at 4:13 pm

    “The granderson trade was a good trade! Period.”

    It’s far more gray, given that they may not be able to keep him.

  138. mick May 18th, 2012 at 4:14 pm

    It’s far more gray, given that they may not be able to keep him.
    =========================
    That will indicate their demise will be in short order.

  139. LGY May 18th, 2012 at 4:15 pm

    One of the biggest mistakes the Steinbrenners have made recently was letting Towers leave the organization.

  140. AZ88 May 18th, 2012 at 4:15 pm

    “Since 2005 Cashman hasn’t been able to buy his way out of mistakes because the payroll, while large, has not gone up. So it isn’t right to say he’s just been able to throw money at problems”

    He was still able to get guys when he needed them – $28 mil for Clemens (pro-rated) in the middle of the season. Re-signing Andy from Houston. Signing CC and AJ. Offering Lee $140 million. Trading for Vazquez’ $10 mil dollar salary. Giving Kuroda $12 mil this year, etc.

    So he still has had the authority to acquiring pitching for significant salary.

  141. Chip May 18th, 2012 at 4:16 pm

    Rich in NJ May 18th, 2012 at 4:13 pm

    “The granderson trade was a good trade! Period.”

    It’s far more gray, given that they may not be able to keep him.
    ———————\

    Come on, the Granderson trade is a good trade. He was an MVP candidate last year and is on his way to having another such season this year. Austin Jackson can’t hit and you have no reason to believe that Ian Kennedy would have been any kind of pitcher with the Yankees (and before you tell me that the NL/AL thing is overblown I will direct you to Hiroki Kuroda)

  142. Chip May 18th, 2012 at 4:17 pm

    LGY May 18th, 2012 at 4:15 pm

    One of the biggest mistakes the Steinbrenners have made recently was letting Towers leave the organization.
    ————————–

    To go to Arizona?

    I think when he came on there was an understanding that if a GM spot opened up he was free to leave and take it.

  143. Wave Your Hat May 18th, 2012 at 4:17 pm

    “It’s far more gray, given that they may not be able to keep him.”

    It was a now for maybe later trade. It worked out just fine. The prospects traded have done fine – although I think Jackson is outperforming himself right now, and I doubt Kennedy would have prospered with the Yanks – but that doesn’t mean the trade wasn’t good.

    The Yanks got what they wanted, and more, in the Granderson trade.

  144. Wave Your Hat May 18th, 2012 at 4:18 pm

    “He was still able to get guys when he needed them – $28 mil for Clemens (pro-rated) in the middle of the season. Re-signing Andy from Houston. Signing CC and AJ. Offering Lee $140 million. Trading for Vazquez’ $10 mil dollar salary. Giving Kuroda $12 mil this year, etc.”

    Yes, but he had to use expiring salary to do it. He couldn’t buy his way out of the situation.

  145. Against All Odds May 18th, 2012 at 4:19 pm

    Yea there was no way Towers was going to stay

  146. GreenBeret7 May 18th, 2012 at 4:19 pm

    LathamJoe May 18th, 2012 at 4:11 pm
    This Team needs a change in philosophy and, for the immediate future, a change in the General Manager’s Office. Extravagant long-term contracts which pay aging players beyond their diminishing skills, poor player personnel decisions (especially in the Pitching Dept.) and dumb trades have rendered the NYY as an aging “first round and out” team. The only Team in MLB with a $200+ payroll, you should expect more. Yet this modern day version of Rotoworld is second only to the Chicago Cubs in Cost per Wins. I’ve been a Yankee Fan for over 50 years, but even I am disgusted with these “Me-first” “superstars. Tex REFUSES to hit the opposite way, so the Shift will continue to rob him of hits. He still believes that he can hit over the shift by yanking the ball out – but he’s succumbed to age and too much weight loss. Swisher? At $10.5 Million, One of the dumbest baseball men I’ve ever seen. This team is full of players that try to hit the Homerun each and every time at bat – with the notable exception of Derek Jeter. And for all the fanfare given to Cashman for building such a “formidable” MiLB pitching corps….Who? Untouchable Hughes? Incomparable Chamberlain? Those future “Killer B’s” who have been hyped as the next coming of Koufax/Drysdale? (The other “Killer B” – Brackman – is gone now, unceremoniously dumped after he fizzled with a +6.00 ERA and a 75/75 K/BB ratio). The jury is still out on Banuelos and Betances, but they have to deliver on the playing field – which hasn’t nearly lived up to the hype.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Lath,

    Tell Casper that he’s on my hit list if he hits another homer against the Yankees.

  147. jacksquat May 18th, 2012 at 4:21 pm

    With all the supposed problems with NL pitchers moving to the AL, why do people want Hamels?

  148. jacksquat May 18th, 2012 at 4:23 pm

    Hamels career interleague: 5-10, 4.21 ERA, 19 games started

  149. Rich in NJ May 18th, 2012 at 4:24 pm

    Chip

    What if we are only looking at 4 years of Granderson with the Yankees, and if he stays longer, at what financial cost in terms of opportunity costs in other players lost due to limited payroll space?

    You then have to compare that with either 10-12 years of IPK/Jackson (potentially 6 each cost-controlled), or what they could have brought back in a trade that may have been around longer than Granderson,

    Jackson is a very inconsistent hitter to this point, but he is still only in his age 25 season.

    Now, if we want to say IPK couldn’t have been developed here, then why would they think they could develop Piineda?

    Anyway, that’s why I say it’s gray, but compared to many of Cashman’s trades, it was terrific.

  150. Frankg May 18th, 2012 at 4:25 pm

    Think about the questionable acquisitions—Lance Berkman, Austin Kearns—and who they gave up—Mark Melancon, most recently in Boston’s bullpen, and Zack McAllister, who has had two decent starts for Cleveland this year.

    Who did they get for Gary Sheffield?

    He thought Alfredo Aceves had chronic back issues and did not offer him a ML contract two years ago. Boston signed him for free and he hasn’t had a back problem for two years, for Boston of all teams, and has done an outstanding job. He keeps a major head case like Joba, who hurts himself on a trampoline and reports for Spring training last year 30 pounds overweight.

    Cashman must take responsibility for his failures and they are beginning to mount up, and were made inescapable with the Seattle trade.

  151. theREALkevin May 18th, 2012 at 4:29 pm

    No thanks to Granderson after 2013. He’ll be entering his age 33 season. See ya.

  152. GreenBeret7 May 18th, 2012 at 4:33 pm

    Kerry Wood’s career is likely over now. He came in and faced one hitter and struck him out.

  153. Frankg May 18th, 2012 at 4:36 pm

    Forgot one—Jose Contreras for Estaban Loaiza. I believe the White Sox won the World Series in large measure due to Contreras. Did Loaiza ever help us?

    Remember Tyler Clippard, ace set-up man for the Nationals the past three years? Yankess product and what do the have to show for trading him?

    John Axford, ace reliever for the Brewers the last two years. The Yankees released him and the Brewers signed him.

    He and his underlings are bad judges of talent.

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