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Pettitte off to impressive start (except to Pettitte himself)

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on May 29, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Before he made the commitment — before came out of retirement and told the Yankees he was willing to pitch again — Andy Pettitte found out for himself what he had left. Away from coaches, teammates and television cameras, Pettitte threw a series of winter bullpens at home in Texas. He knew better than anyone how much of the old workhorse remained.

Maybe that’s why he seems perfectly unimpressed by 19 strikeouts and a 2.53 ERA through his first three starts of the season.

“I felt like I’d be able to get back to where I was, so to say that I’m surprised, I’m really not,” Pettitte said. “I still feel like I have a ways to go as far as maybe mentally, as far as the focus I want to have, but other than that, I feel real good about my stuff and my pitches, where they’re at. All along, I’ve told you I feel really good about all my bullpen work and stuff like that. If you can get to a place mentally where you want to be, the way my pens were feeling from the get-go, I felt like I was going t be able to be successful.”

Obviously the Yankees believed Pettitte could be effective — Brian Cashman was willing to commit big money if Pettitte would have signed earlier — but he’s pitched into the seventh inning in each of his starts this season. In his past two starts, Pettitte’s gone 15 innings with 17 strikeouts and two walks.

The sample size is tiny. But it’s impressive. Heading into tonight’s game in Anaheim, Pettitte’s off to a better start than anyone but Pettitte himself might have hoped for.

“You think about not only the wins, but the distance he’s given us,” Girardi said. “It’s more than I expected.”

Associated Press photo 

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270 Responses to “Pettitte off to impressive start (except to Pettitte himself)”

  1. trisha - true pinstriped blue May 29th, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    Someone “cerebral” wouldn’t take until after the game was over to think “gee, my fastball is getting pounded, maybe I should try another strategy.””

    Actually if one is too cerebral, that’s exactly what could happen. Kind of like when Mike Mussina would overthink things? If someone’s intuitive, they would do exactly what you just suggested.

  2. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    I thought it was interesting that Flaherty basically second-guessed Martin’s pitch calling last night by questioning why he wasn’t calling more changeups, unless he did and Hughes shook him off.

  3. RMS May 29th, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    He reminds me of “still waters run deep.”

    —————————————————————————————-
    Credit the 4 Tops. Just joking with you, trisha!

  4. Hassey May 29th, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    has Pettitte owned Pujols? Or do we need to be more worried about getting Tromboned?

    Haren may K 14 tonight, but we can still make our contact count a bit more than we’ve all become used to…

  5. Shame Spencer May 29th, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    trisha – I see what you’re trying to say and I appreciate anyone committed to sticking to the positive but Mussina was a really, really smart pitcher who could get by (and even excel) after losing a good portion of what made him a great pitcher in his prime.

    If Hughes is over-thinking, and that’s the core issue, then I’ve gone from being unsure of his abilities to certain he’ll never be a big league starter long term. It shouldn’t take 6 seasons to realize you need secondary pitches and cannot rely on your fastball. It shouldn’t even take 6 seasons of little league ball to figure that out.

    …..All that being said, I really do wish he’d come around this season. Otherwise, he’s just something else for all of us to argue about until he hits free agency or we trade him.

  6. RadioKev May 29th, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    I’m going to Sox vs Tigers tonight. With Verlander pitching :D

  7. RMS May 29th, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    Andy going tonight. Now we’ll see a pitcher.

  8. Shame Spencer May 29th, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    (I should have prefaced what I said above with: We are in the 6th season of his MLB career and we’re still trying to decide which he should try as his #2 pitch….again.)

  9. Shame Spencer May 29th, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    RadioKev May 29th, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    I’m going to Sox vs Tigers tonight. With Verlander pitching :D

    —————————-

    Niiiiice.

  10. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    “It shouldn’t take 6 seasons to realize you need secondary pitches”

    The confound is that his secondary pitches have not remained constant. IOW, he had a plus curve and change in 2007, and not since, except for the sometimes promising signs they have shown this season.

  11. Shame Spencer May 29th, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    You’re right, Rich, I should have made that ‘consistent command of secondary pitches.’

    Hughes, by this stage, should be aware he cannot just blow the ball by big league hitters on the regular.

    Maybe I just compare him to AJ because he frustrates the hell out of me every 5 days.

  12. jacksquat May 29th, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue May 29th, 2012 at 12:14 pm
    Someone “cerebral” wouldn’t take until after the game was over to think “gee, my fastball is getting pounded, maybe I should try another strategy.””

    Actually if one is too cerebral, that’s exactly what could happen. Kind of like when Mike Mussina would overthink things? If someone’s intuitive, they would do exactly what you just suggested.

    Intelligence, not intuition. Simple logic. Contuing to do the same thing that is not working over and over again is not smart. Mussina was not like that.

  13. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    Shame

    As I alluded to above, have his catchers tried to get him to throw more secondary pitches, and if not, why not?

  14. The Genius Maker May 29th, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    The Genius Maker May 29th, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    For the year the OPS against Hughes is .870! Hughes had 4 starts for a 2.80 ERA against weaker teams, I pointed out in my blog that he made a lot of bad pitches that the better teams will hit, but I was happy with his performance. This is a perfect example of what a better hitting team will do when you make mistakes. I am not jumping to any conclusions based on this: I am talking about the way he has pitched over the years and this year.

    Can he do better than a 5.64 ERA going forward? Sure, but he needs to stop making excuses and focus on nothing but his command and hitting his spots. He makes far too many mistakes to be successful. It should be noted that all pitchers make mistakes but it is about how many you make and if your stuff is good enough to get away with the mistakes. In my opinion Phil makes more than his share and his stuff is does not enough to get away with as many mistakes.

  15. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    So if Hughes stops making excuses he will suddenly pitch better? Heh.

  16. Shame Spencer May 29th, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    Rich – If you follow Hughes’ timeline, I’m not sure that’s even true. My guess would be the catchers don’t trust his secondary pitches any more than we do.

    Weren’t they trying to get him to throw a crazy number of change ups last year? And this year was the failed cutter experiment, right? I vaguely remember a time when Hughes’ curve ball was excellent…. I wonder how often he threw it when he had it working for him. Assessing how often they’re calling for his secondary stuff now might be misleading.

  17. The Genius Maker May 29th, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    Rich in NJ May 29th, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    I thought it was interesting that Flaherty basically second-guessed Martin’s pitch calling last night by questioning why he wasn’t calling more changeups, unless he did and Hughes shook him off.
    *******

    Flash was incorrect in that he had thrown ONE changeup when he said he hadn’t thrown any. Also, twice Phil shook off Martin and threw fastballs. The change and a curve were shaken off. One fastball was hit for a single and the other was taken for a ball (in case you needed more detail)

  18. JobaTipsHisCap May 29th, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    zero confidence on Hughes when he faces good teams.

  19. The Genius Maker May 29th, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    Rich in NJ May 29th, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    So if Hughes stops making excuses he will suddenly pitch better? Heh.
    ******

    you may want to read what came after the AND in that statement

  20. Shame Spencer May 29th, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    “In my opinion Phil makes more than his share and his stuff is does not enough to get away with as many mistakes.”

    He was able to get away with them in the minors… I sometimes wonder if he just hasn’t matured enough to understand the difference in talent level and how to adjust.

  21. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    “you may want to read what came after the AND in that statement”

    I hate the word excuses. It’s meaningless because there are no excuses in life.

    “The change and a curve were shaken off.”

    We don’t know how many changeups he called.

  22. Dean Winters May 29th, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    I vaguely remember a time when Hughes’ curve ball was excellent

    ———————-

    You mean outside of when he first came up?

  23. Shame Spencer May 29th, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    “Also, twice Phil shook off Martin and threw fastballs. The change and a curve were shaken off. One fastball was hit for a single and the other was taken for a ball (in case you needed more detail).”

    Joba used to do this when he was starting all the time.

    I understand not taking guys like Tex and batting them in the 7 hole because of all the vet-player nonsense… but why exactly can’t we sit down rookie pitchers and tell them that they WILL pitch the game we’re calling?

  24. G. Love May 29th, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    This is what I was afraid of re: Hughes. I felt like he was beating up lesser competition and the first time he saw a lineup with some real ability he would get pounded.

    Beating the Royals, Mariners and even the Orioles is not the same as beating the Rangers, Tigers, Red Sox, Angels.

    The Angels, right now with Trout and Trumbo, are a dangerous team built around Pujols.

    It doesn’t take away that Hughes beat up lineups not as deep, it just should temper expectations when he’s pitted against a much deeper and more talented offensive club.

    It was a bizarre game last night. You see Weaver limp off the mound and us with a 3 run lead knowing we’re hitting against their pen and you think it will be more than enough, but Hughes can’t hold down good hitters and the defensive silliness in the OF didn’t help.

    Those of you who love Swisher for his “energy” got to see the worst of it defensively last night. He could have killed Grandy on both those plays.

    The guy plays without a brain so much. It’s why he’s a poor hitter when the chips count the most. It’s all adrenaline without thought.

    And the shame of it is he has the ability to be a smart player. We’ve seen him calm himself down and play to his ability, but he takes himself out of big games and moments more than any of player I’ve seen. You could play smart with passion. He doesn’t seem to get that.

    The team needs to win the games when Tex is hitting because when his slump comes back, and it will come back and last about a month or so before the next hot streak, it’s going to be tough to muster up the offense again.

    Let’s hope Andy keeps up the great work and the offense continues to hit like they have. It’s not a great time to start a losing streak on the heels of a modest win streak.

  25. The Genius Maker May 29th, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    Shame, you might have missed it earlier but I went through every pitch. the curve has not been the problem for Hughes. The cutter was thrown twice for the colliding triple and HR. Then the fastball was the next “least effective” then the changeup which was reasonably effective and the curve was the most effective, only allowing a single. Overall the change and curve were the most effective.

    Of course, if that is all he threw they would be far less effective

  26. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    Shame

    “My guess would be the catchers don’t trust his secondary pitches any more than we do.”

    It can’t get better unless he throws them, so it’s a chicken or the egg thing to an extent.

    His stuff is much better this year so last year shouldn’t be that relevant.

    This isn’t directed at you, but he has pitched pretty well this month. He had a step back yesterday. I don’t view it as that much of a surprise because development isn’t necessarily linear.

  27. The Genius Maker May 29th, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    “The change and a curve were shaken off.”

    We don’t know how many changeups he called.
    *********

    when nobody is on 2nd you do

  28. The Genius Maker May 29th, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    I understand not taking guys like Tex and batting them in the 7 hole because of all the vet-player nonsense… but why exactly can’t we sit down rookie pitchers and tell them that they WILL pitch the game we’re calling?
    *********

    It isn’t always that easy. for example, you want the pitcher to be convinced the pitch is the right one. If you really want it you can call it again and if the pitcher doesn’t want to throw it you go talk to him. I had one rule that I stuck with; when there were 3 balls on the batter and you didn’t feel like you could throw the pitch for a strike, shake me off every time.

  29. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    “when nobody is on 2nd you do”

    So Flaherty, who spent years as a BUC, doesn’t know that?

  30. The Genius Maker May 29th, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    Rich in NJ May 29th, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    “when nobody is on 2nd you do”

    So Flaherty, who spent years as a BUC, doesn’t know that?
    ******

    Rich, what are you talking about? Are you talking about the one changeup he missed? Later in the game he talked about the change and when Martin flashed his 4 fingers he said here it comes so he sometimes is looking in? Still don’t understand you though

  31. Shame Spencer May 29th, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    GM – I didn’t see that post earlier but I’ll probably go back to try and find it. It does make sense his FB would be the least effective since he’s throwing it the most often (that’s my assumption, anyway).

    Rich – Fair point. And I do agree he’s at least had what I would consider decent outings this month. I’ll take progress, that’s for sure… but I don’t think that will stop me from assuming he’ll give me a clunker for every 3 or 4 decent starts he strings together. Can we live with it? Sure. The rest of our rotation has to be better as well in order for us to do that, however. The fact that a guy who just came out of retirement has looked like our best pitcher does concern me. Doesn’t give you confidence this team is built for October. That being said, I hope Nova comes around a bit and CC we expect to get better as the weather gets warmer.

  32. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    “Rich, what are you talking about?”

    I am making a general point about Flaherty’s comment that Martin should have been calling more changes to get batter’s off the FB. I don’t particularly like Flaherty’s commentary, but if the guy knows anything, it’s the non-hitting part of catching.

    Now, maybe he doesn’t like Martin, but he is similar to Martin in that both don’t bring much more to the table than defense/pitch calling, and Flaherty has seemed to get absurdly giddy about other bad hitting catchers in the past, so I thought it was noteworthy that he made that comment.

  33. The Genius Maker May 29th, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    I happen to like Flaherty usually, but I think he missed that one pitch. As for the calling I didn’t see other shakeoffs of the change and with the way his fastball was getting t’d off on then more changeups probably would not have been a bad idea.

    My comment after the “and” was that Phil needs to focus on his command because he is just not consistent at hitting good spots.

  34. EA May 29th, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    “This is what I was afraid of re: Hughes. I felt like he was beating up lesser competition and the first time he saw a lineup with some real ability he would get pounded.

    Beating the Royals, Mariners and even the Orioles is not the same as beating the Rangers, Tigers, Red Sox, Angels. ”

    I agree. Also, he didn’t even pitch wells against the Orioles, he gave up 4 runs. The Royals have scored 186 runs, or the 5th least in baseball.

    With him, the excuses are always rampant – he wasn’t hit hard, the ball should have been caught, the ump cheated him, etc. I know people badly want to see a homegrown guy succeed, but at some point, the numbers speak for themselves. Maybe this is just what he is. 3 quality starts in 10.

  35. Bronx Jeers May 29th, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    I had to laugh at Pujols last nite. He couldn’t believe Hughes struck him out.

  36. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    “My comment after the “and” was that Phil needs to focus on his command because he is just not consistent at hitting good spots.”

    Again, I think he may have had an off night. It happens. But I expected people to overreact.

  37. Wave Your Hat May 29th, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    “Again, I think he may have had an off night.”

    It certainly was an off night.

    The problem is that Hughes consistently throws too many pitches and gives up too many long fly balls. He was doing that even when he was winning against KC and Seattle.

    Too many pitches + too many fly balls = too many off nights.

  38. UnKnown May 29th, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    Trout or Harper who would you rather have?

    Man both are going to be great the way it looks.

  39. Yank 97 May 29th, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    Hughes is the first pitcher since 1997 to give up a HR in each of his first 10 starts.

  40. bruceb May 29th, 2012 at 1:29 pm

    Let’s hope Andy keeps up the great work and the offense continues to hit like they have. It’s not a great time to start a losing streak on the heels of a modest win streak.

    This is the acid test for the second (or should I say third) coming of Andy P, just as it was for Phil last night – a test that he so miserably failed. So far, Andy has faced the Mariners, Reds and Royals. Now he has to shut down one of the hottest lineups in baseball. Not only that, he is up against a guy who often bamboozles the Yankees, Mr Haren Scarem. It’s a big ask.

  41. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    “Too many pitches + too many fly balls = too many off nights.”

    Yet since April 16th, his ERA is not great but not awful 4.16, with 8 K/9.

    Developing starters is hard. We are seeing that with Nova now. But because the Yankees haven’t had the ability/stomach to do it, they make serial stupid trades for other teams’ starters.

    I prefer showing patience to their own, and maybe one day, smarter people will oversee both development and trades.

  42. GreenBeret7 May 29th, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    So, as I see the thinking on here is that Hughes gets discredited for doing well against weak hitting teams, while Kuroda, Sabathia and Pettitte are being drooled over for pitching well against the same teams. What will be said about Pettitte if he gets hammered tonight? Will the board beat him to death or will it be just one of those things?

  43. Wave Your Hat May 29th, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    “What will be said about Pettitte if he gets hammered tonight? Will the board beat him to death or will it be just one of those things?”

    Andy is mighty and will prevail. If for some reason he doesn’t tonight, he will next time.

  44. Wave Your Hat May 29th, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    “prefer showing patience to their own”

    You have to admit they’ve been patient with Hughes. Perhaps they haven’t been consistent with him, but patient, yes.

    Problem is time is about up for Phil as a Yank. If he becomes good (big question at this point), it will probably be for some other team.

  45. Yank 97 May 29th, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    So, as I see the thinking on here is that Hughes gets discredited for doing well against weak hitting teams, while Kuroda, Sabathia and Pettitte are being drooled over for pitching well against the same teams. What will be said about Pettitte if he gets hammered tonight? Will the board beat him to death or will it be just one of those things?

    —————

    Kuroda is continually called an NL pitcher every time he gives up a run. He probably gets more heat and expressed skepticism than any of the starters

    CC and Andy are well, well beyond being evaluated on a start by start basis. They are proven veteran winning pitchers. The only question with Andy was if he could regain his stuff after a year off. Now that he has, there are no questions about his performance.

  46. Dean Winters May 29th, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    With him, the excuses are always rampant – he wasn’t hit hard, the ball should have been caught, the ump cheated him, etc.

    ——————

    You had ppl mentioning the ground ball past A-rod and the collision in the outfield wtf.

  47. Dean Winters May 29th, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    UnKnown May 29th, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    Trout or Harper who would you rather have?

    —————–

    As a Yankee fan I’ll take both because I’m greedy :)

  48. bruceb May 29th, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    Wave Your Hat May 29th, 2012 at 1:33 pm
    “What will be said about Pettitte if he gets hammered tonight? Will the board beat him to death or will it be just one of those things?”

    Andy is mighty and will prevail. If for some reason he doesn’t tonight, he will next time.

    Andy is human and will occasionally fail. Hopefully, not tonight.

  49. Eroc May 29th, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    Buster_ESPN
    W/o Strasburg-Harper talent in this year’s draft, heard speculation that teams might choose acceptable-but-cheaper talent for their picks.

    Buster_ESPN In other words: If they can work out a cheaper-than-slot deal in first round, that’s cap room saved for later.

  50. GreenBeret7 May 29th, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    among the pitchers most like Hughes at age 25 is John Lackey (before Boston), Kyle Kendrick, Matt Harrison and ROY HALLADAY. Time is on Hughes side, except on here and in the media.

  51. randy l. May 29th, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    “Contuing to do the same thing that is not working over and over again is not smart. Mussina was not like that.”

    mussina was actually a really stubborn pitcher who refused to pitch up and in with the yankees which i believe cost him winning 300 games . he had drilled someone on purpose as an oriole and the hitter came out to the mound and disabled mussina. mussina swore he’d never do that again.

    after his horrible 2007 he was told in spring training to either pitch up and in or go to the bullpen.
    once he did this , he easily won twenty games at the tail end of his career.

    think how talented mussina was to pitch with hitters NEVER fearing mussina knocking them off the plate. i used to say he should pitch in a pinstriped dress because he refused to protect yankee hitters were hit.

    to me mussina was a loser because of this refusal to protect his teammates and his refusal to win games he could have won by pitching up and in.

    i also believe it’s also no coincidence the yankees never won a world championship as long as he was with them (though they should have in 2001).

    letting mussina get away with his refusal set a really bad precedent for the rest of the team. it was a double standard that he was allowed to get away with. it hurt the yankees.

    yeah , he was smart, but he was one of my least favorite yankee pitchers ever. the last year he redeemed himself , but it was too little too late as far as i’m concerned.

  52. GreenBeret7 May 29th, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    Anyone that believes Bluster Only knows anything about baseball, much less about the drafting of players is a fool.

  53. blake May 29th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    Trout or Harper who would you rather have?””

    Based on the limited amoubt Ive seen of both…..Trout….I think Harper has a higher ceiling and insane bat speed…..but I also think he has a lower floor and that Trout can do more things well.

  54. Dean Winters May 29th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    Wave Your Hat May 29th, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    “prefer showing patience to their own”

    You have to admit they’ve been patient with Hughes. Perhaps they haven’t been consistent with him, but patient, yes.

    ———————

    Exactly let’s not make it seem like they haven’t spent time on him. How many young Yankee starters in recent history have been given the opportunity to start games for the big club every single season since being called up

  55. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    “You have to admit they’ve been patient with Hughes. Perhaps they haven’t been consistent with him, but patient, yes.”

    But as you suggest, in the absence of consistency what is the patience really worth?

    And the injuries make assessment problematic.

    They have most of this season and next.

    My point is that he has shown positive signs. They have no better options, and unless they want to risk making yet another stupid trade for a starter, they should stick.

  56. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    “to me mussina was a loser because of this refusal to protect his teammates (though they should have in 2001)”

    And 2004, and probably 2003. So I don’t think Mussina’s presence was why they didn’t win during his tenure. They got lucky in 1998 and other years. They got unlucky in 2001, 2003, and 2004.

    “to me mussina was a loser because of this refusal to protect his teammates”

    I did hate this though.

  57. Wave Your Hat May 29th, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    Hi randy-

    I was up in your neck of the woods this weekend and dropped in your wstablishment to say hi, but your very nice assistant couldn’t locate you. Sorry I missed you, I was looking forward to meeting a real ex-catcher. :)

  58. Wave Your Hat May 29th, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    “unless they want to risk making yet another stupid trade for a starter, they should stick.”

    Whether they should or shouldn’t, I think the fact of the matter is that they will. So we should all keep our fingers crossed and hope for the best.

  59. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    “Whether they should or shouldn’t, I think the fact of the matter is that they will. So we should all keep our fingers crossed and hope for the best.”

    No words…..

  60. jacksquat May 29th, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    randy l. May 29th, 2012 at 1:45 pm
    “Contuing to do the same thing that is not working over and over again is not smart. Mussina was not like that.”

    mussina was actually a really stubborn pitcher who refused to pitch up and in with the yankees which i believe cost him winning 300 games . he had drilled someone on purpose as an oriole and the hitter came out to the mound and disabled mussina. mussina swore he’d never do that again.

    after his horrible 2007 he was told in spring training to either pitch up and in or go to the bullpen.
    once he did this , he easily won twenty games at the tail end of his career.

    think how talented mussina was to pitch with hitters NEVER fearing mussina knocking them off the plate. i used to say he should pitch in a pinstriped dress because he refused to protect yankee hitters were hit.

    to me mussina was a loser because of this refusal to protect his teammates and his refusal to win games he could have won by pitching up and in.

    i also believe it’s also no coincidence the yankees never won a world championship as long as he was with them (though they should have in 2001).

    letting mussina get away with his refusal set a really bad precedent for the rest of the team. it was a double standard that he was allowed to get away with. it hurt the yankees.

    yeah , he was smart, but he was one of my least favorite yankee pitchers ever. the last year he redeemed himself , but it was too little too late as far as i’m concerned.

    Not pitching “in” is not a reason Mussina was not a good pitcher. He was a good pitcher. He mixed up his pitches. Mixing pitches and not being stubborn about trying to force one pitch to work was the point.

    That you didn’t like him because he wouldn’t retaliate is irrelevant to me.

  61. jacksquat May 29th, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    Heck, don’t even compare to Mussina then, compare to Phelps. Phelps is a better pitcher now. His fastball is not as good “stuff” wise, but he usually locates it better and that makes it better. He mixes multiple pitches and they are better quality and more consistent than Hughes’ secondary pitches. And I don’t care why this is, the fact is he is better than Hughes now, and if Hughes doesn’t get it together soon an be more consistent and pitch better against good teams, Phelps deserves his spot.

  62. Shame Spencer May 29th, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    Torre wasn’t a big on retaliation, either. Much more annoying to me having a manager take that stance than a singular pitcher.

    Mussina was still a very smart pitcher.

  63. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2012 at 2:41 pm

    “And I don’t care why this is, the fact is he is better than Hughes now, and if Hughes doesn’t get it together soon an be more consistent and pitch better against good teams, Phelps deserves his spot.”

    Hughes has outpitched Nova this season.

  64. LGY May 29th, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    GreenBeret7 May 29th, 2012 at 1:31 pm
    So, as I see the thinking on here is that Hughes gets discredited for doing well against weak hitting teams, while Kuroda, Sabathia and Pettitte are being drooled over for pitching well against the same teams. What will be said about Pettitte if he gets hammered tonight? Will the board beat him to death or will it be just one of those things?

    ——–

    Yeah, let’s compare a future HOF in CC Sabathia, a potential HOF in Andy Pettitte, and a pitcher in KURODA with a 3.49 career ERA to a guy with a 5 ERA in his career as a starter.

  65. LGY May 29th, 2012 at 2:49 pm

    Rich in NJ May 29th, 2012 at 2:41 pm
    “And I don’t care why this is, the fact is he is better than Hughes now, and if Hughes doesn’t get it together soon an be more consistent and pitch better against good teams, Phelps deserves his spot.”

    Hughes has outpitched Nova this season.

    ——

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