Rodriguez at DH for Detroit series finale
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jun 03, 2012 
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Derek Jeter SS
Curtis Granderson CF
Alex Rodriguez DH
Robinson Cano 2B
Mark Teixeira 1B
Raul Ibanez LF
Nick Swisher RF
Eric Chavez 3B
Russell Martin C
RHP Phil Hughes
Deja vu on the RISP problem. Men on base kill rallies. Who knew? Put me in the desperately seeking a good, contact hitter group. I also agree the bullpen is running out of gas.
I don’t even care whether or not the lineup makes sense anymore. Girardi is a stubborn guy, so as long as he is here, imagination is on vacation.
I really do wish that Stewart caught Hughes, but same as above.
I really do wish that Stewart caught Hughes, but same as above.
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I think Hughes’ problems are his own but it would have been a good idea to at least try Stewart with Phil. There is nothing to lose and if he gets on a roll it helps the team.
“Until later. Blake and MTU-did you fall back asleep?”
maybe they are doing the gb7 sunday morning facial.
you know, the one where gb7 falls asleep into his oatmeal.
“I think Hughes’ problems are his own…”
At the end of the day, that is true, even if it is at least partially a function of their total inability to develop high end starters. But you are stuck with the organization that drafts you.
Stuck being the key word.
Girardi’s line up is not to blame. The hitters are to blame. The called for clean up hitter, Granderson, did not come through. None of them seem to.
When Gardner gets back the Yankees should be in a be in a better position to manufacture runs and it will be much more difficult for opponents to get a single to left field.
No one is going to come through every night, but the question should be which hitters are more likely to hit with RISP, and do so with SLG. It isn’t A-Rod or Tex right now.
Btw, is Girardi to blame for anything? If not, why does he get credit for anything?
Rich,
The manager’s effects on a team are pretty nebulous, I think.
i don’t pay much attention to any one game for making long term projections, and i thought last night’s game was a very good baseball game. the ending sucked, but a good game.
…however , my baseball ouija board tells me the yankees have been brought back towards league average. even at the best of times in baseball the good teams only win a few games above.500 a month.
i have lowered my expectations for the yankees for the next 3-5 years because i see no way around the 189 figure with so much money going to aging declining players.
what i’m looking for rather than baseball excellence in the is a movement towards being excellent again.
the tree needs to be pruned for new growth. the question is how are they going to do that?
if they do nothing and just plug along they’ll be really mediocre as the downward spiral will continue.
but if they cut off some dead wood so they can put some energy into new players maybe they’ll be excellent again in 3-5 years.
if they keep on the path they are on , it’ll be a decade of patching up things and really going nowhere. they need to make some hard decisions and think big picture and make some really good long range strategic decisions.
Does anybody know what Dickerson’s injury is? He has been in the AAA DL since early April it would be nice if he became an option. We need to stop playing Ibanez in the OF so much but without Gardner and Dickerson injured and Wise innefective there aren’t many better options.
Rich,
Girardi does agreat job with the pen. The line up is the same one virtually every manager would use. Hitting AROD second and Granderson fourth is going to change the RISP numbers? Look at the batting averages(they do count when runners are in scoring position). They stink that’s the manager’s fault?
Rich,
I posted I comment for you in the last thread. I am writing from my BB, so I don’t know how to copy it and post it in this thread. Sorry
I’d love to hear Girardi say “we have too many dead spots in our lineup” like Jim Leyland said about his team. Instead we have Pa Ingalls as our manager protecting these guys like they’d even shed a tear if Cashman canned him tomorrow and replaced him with Pena.
At some point, Girardi will realize he’s managing for his life here. There is too much talent, too much payroll and too much riding on the potential post season revenue to watch this team go about their business like this.
You look at the numbers and you realize that if they don’t have their softball games once every 7-10 games where they put 9-15 runs, they’d be among the league’s worst offenses.
That 9th inning was a disgrace last night and as a fan I was actually hoping Arod and Tex both got hit with pitches or walked since I knew there was no way they’d do something with their bats in that situation.
And Cano swinging early in the count for a guy who couldn’t find the plate?
No words.
But hey, let’s look at the back of everyone’s baseball cards and turn off the games and imagine a season where they do what they are supposed to do.
Watching this team is getting tedious this season.
They don’t need a bat. They need 3 bats.
The RISP problem is mostly the players fault but Girardi could start runners more often or even squeeze every once in a while to help make something happen.
Radiokev
I largely agree, but trying new things when the current way of doing things isn’t yielding the desired results may be something that may move the needle beyond the nebulous.
austinmac
It is kind of easy to do a great job with the pen when you have Rivera, Robertson, and Soriano.
The results since then are INC.
How do we know if a linep change or a different strategy would work or not if it isn’t tried?
Randy,
Funny that I wrote something along those lines in the previous thread. I agree, they need to get younger and fast. That means dumping some current players for prospects. Are they going to do it? That remains to be seen. Because it would mean that Cashman whole strategy was wrong. I don’t see them acknowledging this.
I posted this last night, but Among qualified batters, only 4 players in MLB have a lower BA with RISP than Robinson Cano.
That’s the core of the problem considering Cano is now the featured hitter in this lineup.
They don’t need a bat. They need 3 bats.
*********
Agreed. And Adam Jones and Miguel Montero are both off the board. There aren’t too many contact hitters left. Melky Cabrera and David DeJesus come to mind…
Ichiro is another. But would he leave Seattle?
I’ll never understand the continuous demands by some for Girardi to start throwing his players under the bus through the media.
We saw how well that strategy worked for Bobby Valentine early in the season with Youkilis.
That crap doesn’t fly with this team. It becomes a distraction in itself due to the NY media fishbowl.
One of Joe Torre’s biggest mistakes as the Yankee manager was throwing A-Rod under the bus when he struggled and did so again in his tell-all book.
It was Torre who suffered the backlash when he used such tactics – not A-Rod.
When will people understand that you can’t manage this team the same way you manage the Marlins?
luis
I thought A-Rod’s problem would be health (maybe they are, only mor subtly), but I never understood Cashman somehow thinking that the had offense to trade. What has gone on to this point in the season is making that misguided view seem almost comical.
Bret,
Why do you constantly believe Melky is available? If he goes free agent, he’s available. Right now, he’s the best hitter on the Giants and he’s going nowhere. The Giants are in 2nd place and 1 game out of the Wild Card. They are not trading him.
G. Love,
You mean SF isn’t going to give us Melky, Lincecum, and Cain for Nick Swisher and a bag of balls? I’m shocked
G. Love,
I’m well aware he’s not available right now. I’m thinking long-term construction of the lineup and adding 3 contact hitters long term. Right now, there are 2 real possibilities – DeJesus and Ichiro. I’d be shocked if Cashman added 1 contact hitter in-season. He has an aversion to high average guys and a craving for homer happy guys.
Cano’s problems wouldn’t be the issue they are if Tex and A-Rod weren’t declining. But it is becoming obvious, if it wasn’t already, that a very long term contract for Cano could become yet another contract that ultimately kills them.
Cano goes on a tear every year. When that happens, his style of play is more appreciated. We just have to hope it happens in the post season every year or else we are depending on Arod and Tex to bail us out.
It’s no about throwing anybody under the bus, it’s about shaking things up.
It’s about using your players in their optimal spots.
Why isn’t Granderson up 4th? He is their best power hitter.
Cano is struggling in power slots. Put him up 2nd.
He tried it with Tex. It seems to have worked.
You can always move them back.
It seems so obvious.
It obvious that Girardi and Cashman didn’t think that a certain bat fit in the lineup so he was traded. But the it’s funny how every year the bats under perform and the Yanks are looking for offense. With Martin hitting like a pitcher since last May, Arod and Jeter getting older and Tex showing how inconsistent he is I really don’t understand what in the world Cashman was thinking. Saying that he was trading from strength shows how he isn’t in touch with the roster and the issues that all of the age was going to bring. It seems like the same issue every year.
I think regardless of how you shuffle the cards, the lineup will fall far short of being a circular lineup.
I mean think about this… Do you feel confident about Tex and Arod up in a big spot against playoff pitching like Verlander?
Cashman has always believed the team has plenty of offense. It does not and will decline further in the on-coming years. The problem, in my opinion, is the roster and not Girardi. Exactly what did you want in the 9th inning? For Girardi to don his fake mustache so he could tell someone to get a hit?
Girardi has done a good job with the low end guys in the pen. He has helped Wade and Logan have value when they never previously had any.
None of that matters when a team gets two walks and two hit batters in an inning an scores one run.
Signing Granderson from ages 33 on for $120 million and signing Cano through age 40 and $150-$200 million is just asking for trouble
Cashman badly, badly underestimated the need for a young bat to infuse the lineup.
And Cano swinging early in the count for a guy who couldn’t find the plate?
cano has never been a great situational hitter. he seems to do best when leading off an inning. .930 lifetime ops
Leadoff Inn. 713 993 946 210 320 82 4 40 40 0 0 37 111 .338 .370 .560 .930 530 0 10 0 0 0
What’s with the Yanks Giving Pearce to the O’s, merely for “cash considerations”. Pearce is gonna go on the Orioles 25 Man Roster, and cash is going into Hal’s pocket. Absolutely NO WAY George woulda fortified a team in his own Division, merely to line his pockets. This team needs an owner that has winning as the top priority. Right now, it’s obvious the bottom line reigns supreme.
mick, you are asking questions that the GM should be asking Girardi? Is he? And if not, why not? And what is keeping Joe G from doing anything to shake this team up, is he in fact relying on the 3 run homer as his strategy?
You don’t need a circular lineup.
It’s not Martin’s fault this team is struggling.
It’s a team built on power, esp. lefty power at home.
If they win 50 games at home and split on the road, that’s 90 wins.
They do that in their sleep.
Shaking up the lineup might work, might not. Try something, it’s not an insult.
There is another very expensive contact hitter available – Joe Mauer the Twins cannot afford that contract and they are in rebuilding mode. It would mean abandoning the 189 MM$ luxury tax threshold but for the right price he is available and he would help this lineup
” But it is becoming obvious, if it wasn’t already, that a very long term contract for Cano could become yet another contract that ultimately kills them.”
that’s kind of what i’m getting at.
there’s another idea.
Bat Cano leadoff. Jeter 2nd.
” Because it would mean that Cashman whole strategy was wrong. I don’t see them acknowledging this.”
luis-
i don’t think cashman made his plan with the new CBA in mind.
the yankees seem like a deer in headlights with this new agreement.
we’re not hearing what they really think about it, but i wonder if they are just simply freaking out and choking on a management level rather than making some hard decisions to move forward.
Mauer would have to be a 3 team trade where Teixeira goes somewhere else but Minny and agrees to waive his no trade clause to go to that 3rd team.
An impossibility in my mind.
Girardi and Cashman will not show signs of panic. That would admit failure and might wake up Hal.
In the past Cash took orders from the Boss, now it is status quo, no harm no foul.
They feel they can win with what they have but have been proven wrong before in the playoffs.
Maybe the regular season is what they’re built for and we just have to accept it.
You don’t need a circular lineup.
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You do if you build you ohilosophy on it.
They aren’t going to bat Cano leadoff. He’s not a leadoff hitter.
I’d watch the Soler signing carefully. There is a clear need in the organization for OF prospects in the upper echelon of their farm system and flat out there is a need to infuse the system with offensive talent regardless of the level they start out at. By all indications this is a guy who has talent and good upside. He is the kind of guy that NY rarely has a chance to sign in the regular draft and he is available only for money.
NY has the money and they have the need. So if NY is serious about putting a premium product on the field these are the kind of investments that should be made.
If he doesn’t get signed to me that shows me the owner has other priorities than investing in the product on the field and that is not something that gets me excited about the Yankees future.
I guarantee that if Cano hit leadoff and went 4-5 that Girardi would stick with that lineup.
I don’t think it’s a great line up in the long run, but maybe hitting Cano 2nd and Grandy 4th would have some short term benefits. Get Cano thinking a bit less at the plate.
You could see his disappointment and frustration last night. The guy’s just gotta relax and let it come to him with RISP.
randy l. June 3rd, 2012 at 11:38 am
” Because it would mean that Cashman whole strategy was wrong. I don’t see them acknowledging this.”
luis-
i don’t think cashman made his plan with the new CBA in mind.
the yankees seem like a deer in headlights with this new agreement.
we’re not hearing what they really think about it, but i wonder if they are just simply freaking out and choking on a management level rather than making some hard decisions to move forward.
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They might not have known the new CBA would be this harsh but they have been talking about lowering the payroll for yrs. Haven’t they pulled back on spending in the draft and on IFAs
randy l. June 3rd, 2012 at 11:34 am
” But it is becoming obvious, if it wasn’t already, that a very long term contract for Cano could become yet another contract that ultimately kills them.”
that’s kind of what i’m getting at.
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They really have no choice though
Mauer? Laughable trade idea. We can come up with better jokes than that.
A circular lineup predicates that every hitter is a threat. There is no relief in sight.
You need a catcher who can hit to accomplish that.
For now, we don’t have one, so you hit the catcher 8th or 9th and hope your real hitters come through.
With our RISP #’s what they are, it’s obvious they are not.
That’s where the problem lies, not whether Martin hits or not.
Yeah the Twins are really screwed with that Mauer albatross. It’s a huge contract and he’s a brittle ballplayer.
Why can’t a circular lineup have 8 of 9 hitters who are a threat?
“the yankees seem like a deer in headlights with this new agreement.”
Im sure they knew the league would continue to try and hamper them…..but I doubt they realized the union would fold as bad as they did…..Cashman is in a tough spot really which is why I cut him SOME slack…..hes got a team that need some things and hes got an owner that wont let him operate the way he has in the past…..
Bret The Hitman June 3rd, 2012 at 11:40 am
Mauer would have to be a 3 team trade where Teixeira goes somewhere else but Minny and agrees to waive his no trade clause to go to that 3rd team.
An impossibility in my mind.
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I’m not sure why it has to be a 3 team trade with Tex going elsewhere. Mauer doesn’t havr to play 1st base at least not all the time he could become a Victor Martenez type DH/Catcher/1B combination and he may even be able to play a little outfield.
I think it is innevitable that a high revnue team like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers ot Angels will need to rescue Minn from that contract at some point.
It will howver require that the Yankee abandon any effort at lowering their payroll. I think that is the show stopper.
Choking is obviously contagious. Arod is getting old but what is Cano’s excuse. he looks really bad especially with runners on. really tired of hearing he is one of the best hitters in the game. bs
Talk about hitting with RISP, what was wrong with Matsui?
He’d be up 4th if he were here now.
Is it an insult to the others to put Ibanez up 4th or 5th ?
It would lengthen the lineup with swisher up 8th.
Grandy has 17 hrs and 33 rbi, bat him 4th, he has earned it.
Up 4th he would have 50 rbi.
Yank1,
Why does a younger bat hit BETTER with RISP? Why would you assume that? Our line up has been getting on base, converting those guys into runs has been the problem — it’s not as if our line up is old and feeble. I don’t think age should negatively affect “situational” hitting. The old adages suggest Vets should perform better in those situations.
Just a question in terms of starting catchers in the ML how does Martin stack up offensively since May 1 of 2011? Is he not a guy hitting less than .220 since then? 7 months of baseball.
Another question, where does Martin stack up in terms of PB, catcher’s ERA, CS% etc..
Overall, it would be hard to summarize him being much above an average defensive catcher, no? He hustles, he is fiery, he has “intangibles” but what are the results?
Last question, why does NY consider this guy a starting catcher when they look at these facts?
How has he earned this position?
Whether this lineup isn’t circular enough isn’t the question.
It’s probably the most circular in the league when hitting.
That is the problem, they are not hitting.
Girardi feels they will hit eventually, so why change anything and admit defeat.
It would also break up his “circle of trust” and loyalty. It’s his philosophy and he’s sticking to it.
Saying it isn’t circular is , in effect, blaming Martin for their hitting woes and saying Montero would have been the answer.
Question:
What organization do you think might be better than the Yankees right now? I’m curious. I’ve got two in mind that compete/could be better.
Yankees21,
FWIW Fangraph gas the Yankees as the fourth best defensive catching team in baseball behind the Chisox, Orioles and Diamondbacks
giradrdis problem is that he is too conservative.
look at what pena did yesterday, having them double steal.
girardi is not creative enough to try that.
he is a small ball mgr, with a station to station team.
not saying they should rely on small ball but at least shake things up once in a while.
he thinks that’s too gimmicky.
Yankee21,
I said the same as you yesterday. The need for a young potentially strong bat and Soler can be had for just money. If they don’t go after him strongly, it will be a big sign the future will be very frugal.
mick
I suspect Girardi was still managing from the corridor just beyond the dugour yesterday after he was ejected.
RK;
STL, TEX, TB and LAA,, none of these organizations are perfect, but I believe they know what they are doing at least as good if not better than NYY.
rm, what was Martin’s contribution to that Fangraph’s defensive rating?
So like pretty much in everything in life I think there is a gray area most of the times.
Saying that Girardi and Cash can do no wrong and they know all the right buttons to push. Along with that this team is a no doubt W.S. winner in October is a pretty tough and almost impossible sell.
Likewise, going crazy and saying that this team is the worst in everything they do is also an impossible sell. Especially considering that if the playoffs ended last night they would be tied with Cleveland to be in the playoffs as the last WC. And are still only 1.5 back in the toughest division in all of baseball. If they were as bad as some question this would not be the case.
Everyone has their own opinions and I doubt that those opinions are always 100% right no matter how you look at things.
I think this team still makes the playoffs and at that point 4 months from now I think the picture will be more clear as to how strong or weak this team really is.
Later Go Yanks
By the way, I think The Rangers (obviously) and Braves are at Yankees level. Just my opinion.
Austinmac,
It would be paying big time for a prospect. Looks like some scouts think he could be better than anyone in this draft class, but at the same time, that seems to be the comparison being made there. Obviously I’d love the Yanks to buy that type of talent, but it’s a big commitment.
MEMO TO PHIL HUGHES——-
Unless the bases are loaded======= WALK CABRERA======= END OF MEMO……..
I’m completely down w/ getting rid of Girardi!
I mean that guy hasn’t knocked in a run with men in scoring position all year! BA of 0.000 with men ISP. At least the other guys are averaging @ .155, waaaay better than the Girardi.
BTW, I think he was a much better manager when his team hit.
And STL, I’d put them on there too Yankee21.
Probably not the Angels or Rays. Rays just have that financial hurdle that might always restrict them. Angels? Eh. We’ll see. The young guys look great, but we know Pujols is a disaster waiting to happen.
“They really have no choice though”
sure they do.
but it’s a tough choice
i’m not sure i’d give cano a 20 million+ a year long term contract under the new conditions.
Im sure they knew the league would continue to try and hamper them…..but I doubt they realized the union would fold as bad as they did…
Xxxxxxx
That is what surprised me most about the new CBA. Doesn’t seem like the union fought hard for players continual upward salary march.
Frankly, it is reminiscent of the early 90s when owners colluded to keep players’ salaries down. Perhaps the owners employed some real hardball tactics about the future of players’ salaries post-financial crisis. I don’t see the next great wave of baseball revenue (most teams have cable deals) that will sustain the rate of growth of players salaries.
Free agency is not nearly as robust as it once was. Nearly all the best position players are signing extensions with their teams rather than hit the market.
Josh Norris?@jnorris427
I’m sure you all saw: Rafael De Paula’s pro debut – 3 IP, 4 H, 3 R, ER, 2 BB, 6 SO. #Yankees
also if the yankees stay of the high price market what does that do to the market?
Hi guys,
I have my computer now.
Rich, Dean, Blake and Randy,
I think we are in agreement that we are heading to a rebuilding phase. I wasn’t sold on trading Cano, since i thought that in about three years time, he would still be in his prime and would guide the new crop of Yankees. But as time has passed, i am beginning to think that it is probably for the best to trade him and get a bunch of talent in return. It would probably shorten the downward period that lies ahead. It pains me to recognize this reality.
Blake,
I know you are cutting Cashman some slack. But i think that he has made the wrong moves. And if rumors are to be believed, he hasn’t learned from his mistakes ( pursuing Jackson for example ). I don’t think he is the man to lead the team through a rebuilding phase. He is a poor evaluator of his own talent and the team needs, as his most recent moves showed. II don’t necesarilly want him out of the organization, but i certainly don’t want him at the helm.
Austinmac,
I am no fan of Girardi, but i have to agree that at this point he has little to do with the team’s results.
“Free agency is not nearly as robust as it once was. Nearly all the best position players are signing extensions with their teams rather than hit the market.”
this is a trend that will likely stop at some point as teams fill up with long term contracts.
every time a small market team signs a young guy long term that ties them up and takes them out of future deals. take longoria and the rays for example. or mauer and the twins. small market teams can do one and maybe two big signings. eventually most teams will be filled up with a few big signings and then it’s a different market .
the question is will the yankees be ready for it when it comes or will they be still tied up in long term dead wood contracts?