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Jones at DH, Ibanez in LF vs. Santana

Posted by: Josh Thomson - Posted in Lineup on Jun 08, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Someone raised this point last night: Why Raul Ibanez in left and Andruw Jones at DH? Good question, but that’s the alignment again tonight in the Subway Series opener against Johan Santana and the Mets.

Jeter SS
Granderson CF
Teixeira 1B
Rodriguez 3B
Cano 2B
Swisher RF
Jones DH
Ibanez LF
Martin C

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115 Responses to “Jones at DH, Ibanez in LF vs. Santana”

  1. Warning Track Power June 8th, 2012 at 3:33 pm

    A. Jones must have a sore arm/shoulder. Why else would he be at the DH
    spot??

  2. Wave Your Hat June 8th, 2012 at 3:35 pm

    “A. Jones must have a sore arm/shoulder. Why else would he be at the DH
    spot??”

    It does seem like LF belongs to Anybody But Jones.

  3. The Genius Maker June 8th, 2012 at 3:42 pm

    Rich in NJ June 8th, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    “Nice try Rich, but sample size doesn’t work as Stewart has an awful swing and his career OPS is .555. He is simply an awful hitter”

    Martin’s approach isn’t awful? Please.

    Girardi has said offense at catcher doesn’t matter. So that alone refutes every point you have made.
    *****

    Rich, your hate of Martin is clouding your normally good judgment.

  4. The Genius Maker June 8th, 2012 at 3:43 pm

    and Girardi’s comments are not meant to be taken literally. if Martin were hitting with an OPS of .520 the Yanks would be in much more of a panic mode

  5. Rich in NJ June 8th, 2012 at 3:43 pm

    “Rich, your hate of Martin is clouding your normally good judgment.”

    I don’t have the energy to hate. I do believe that his presence has hurt the team.

  6. Wave Your Hat June 8th, 2012 at 3:43 pm

    At this point Martin has an OPS+ of 99. He’s just not a particular issue.

  7. Yank 97 June 8th, 2012 at 3:43 pm

    Ibanez is a better OFer than Jones

  8. Pat M. June 8th, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    Well it least Raul is somewhat familiar with Shea II / Citi Field….At least there’s less ground to cover now Raul…….Who would have thought back in February that on June 8th that Raul Ibanez would be playing most of the time in left, and doing a decent job……..

  9. Hassey June 8th, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    SOme nights, the Yankee lineup looks like a class reunion

  10. DONNYBROOK June 8th, 2012 at 3:45 pm

    We are seeing the same thing with the A-Rod vs. Chavez at 3B.

  11. Rich in NJ June 8th, 2012 at 3:45 pm

    “and Girardi’s comments are not meant to be taken literally.”

    Yet they traded their only ML ready catching prospect (the other was in AA last season, and had a back injury, just like he does now) who happened to bring more to the table via offense than defense. Do you think Girardi argued against that move?

  12. Wave Your Hat June 8th, 2012 at 3:46 pm

    “Who would have thought back in February that on June 8th that Raul Ibanez would be playing most of the time in left, and doing a decent job…”

    He hasn’t made spectacularly bad plays, but I think he plays tentatively and lacks range.

  13. Rich in NJ June 8th, 2012 at 3:46 pm

    “At this point Martin has an OPS+ of 99. He’s just not a particular issue.”

    Unless you believe in trading high.

  14. Wave Your Hat June 8th, 2012 at 3:48 pm

    “Unless you believe in trading high.”

    You aren’t going to get anything better, and the Yanks do need a catcher. And you may or may not be trading high.

  15. Warning Track Power June 8th, 2012 at 3:49 pm

    Pat M. June 8th, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    Well it least Raul is somewhat familiar with Shea II / Citi Field….At least there’s less ground to cover now Raul…….Who would have thought back in February that on June 8th that Raul Ibanez would be playing most of the time in left, and doing a decent job…….

    the weekend series is at Yankee Stadium

  16. The Genius Maker June 8th, 2012 at 3:50 pm

    Rich, your logic is skewed because there is some room between not wanting “any” offense at the catchers position and the catcher must be able to be at least average defensively (Montero is not close to that and probably never will be).

  17. Rich in NJ June 8th, 2012 at 3:50 pm

    “You aren’t going to get anything better, and the Yanks do need a catcher. And you may or may not be trading high.”

    The point is to find out. It’s far better to get something for him than to let him go for nothing.

  18. Rich in NJ June 8th, 2012 at 3:51 pm

    “Rich, your logic is skewed because there is some room between not wanting “any” offense at the catchers position and the catcher must be able to be at least average defensively (Montero is not close to that and probably never will be).”

    People used to say the same thing about Posada.

  19. Yank 97 June 8th, 2012 at 3:51 pm

    I can’t believe Cashman actually offered Martin an extension. Imagine if we were stuck with 3 yrs/$20 million for him in addition to our other bad contracts?

  20. The Genius Maker June 8th, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    Rich, Posada was better than Montero by a long shot. Posada actually threw really well and should have taken the reigns away from Girardi at least a year earlier. I was so ticked at Torre then. Posada was one of the better throwers in the league in his first two years

  21. The Genius Maker June 8th, 2012 at 3:55 pm

    Yank 97, now 7 mil a year for Martin does seem awfully high. But, martin turned it down thinking he will get more. I hope he does, because that means he helped us a lot this year

  22. Rich in NJ June 8th, 2012 at 3:55 pm

    Yet there were no shortage of unnamed baseball sources saying that he sucked as well as reports that some pitchers didn’t want to throw to him.

  23. Wave Your Hat June 8th, 2012 at 3:56 pm

    “The point is to find out. It’s far better to get something for him than to let him go for nothing.”

    Why? The Yanks need him this year. He’s only not valuable in your mind.

  24. Rich in NJ June 8th, 2012 at 3:57 pm

    “Why?”

    Because I believe in getting a return on assets that aren’t likely to be retained.

    “The Yanks need him this year. He’s only not valuable in your mind.”

    He’s clearly overvalued in yours.

  25. Yank 97 June 8th, 2012 at 3:58 pm

    Buster_ESPN
    Sources: Next round of bids for Jorge Soler are due this weekend, and right now, the most aggressive teams are Cubs, Yankees, ATL, and LAD

  26. theREALkevin June 8th, 2012 at 3:59 pm

    Martin’s recent hot streak has put him back in non-liability status with the bat for the moment. Upon his next probable extended slump, this could change quickly. I don’t believe he will keep this up, he’s been getting a lot of mistake pitches. I will say that lately he seems to be making a better effort to go the other way with pitches, which I like.

  27. Wave Your Hat June 8th, 2012 at 4:00 pm

    “He’s clearly overvalued in yours.”

    It’s pointless to argue with you Rich. You are so obsessed with Montero that everything is seen through that distorting lens. And Seattle is using a catcher with an OPS of .558 at catcher instead.

    Maybe the Yanks could trade Martin for Olivo. Would that make you happy?

  28. The Genius Maker June 8th, 2012 at 4:00 pm

    Rich, you are listening to others…I was a catcher and I know what I saw. An excellent hitting catcher, who threw extremely well and blocked balls well. His issues was that he was not a good receiver early on. Posada was Montero with a much better release throwing and a little better blocking ability…He also called a good game right from the get go…Montero may do that as well (I don’t know). the writers don’t know anything about the intricate parts of catching…back then they knew even less; they were just looking for a story (that is the same)

  29. Pat M. June 8th, 2012 at 4:01 pm

    Warning track power……Thank’s for the heads up, not certain as to what I was thinking about…….Back to the end of the line for me !!!!

  30. The Genius Maker June 8th, 2012 at 4:01 pm

    And Seattle is using a catcher with an OPS of .558 at catcher instead.
    *****

    LOL

  31. Rich in NJ June 8th, 2012 at 4:03 pm

    “It’s pointless to argue with you Rich. You are so obsessed with Montero that everything is seen through that distorting lens. And Seattle is using a catcher with an OPS of .558 at catcher instead.”

    Yet I virtually never bring up Montero (but I have seen you do it more than once), and as I said, I was fine with trading him for offense.

    Pointless? That’s your small sample size indictments of him.

  32. UnKnown June 8th, 2012 at 4:03 pm

    Lots of good stuff being posted today as I skim through the Morning/Afternoon posts.

    Interesting takes by all, good job.

  33. Wave Your Hat June 8th, 2012 at 4:04 pm

    “not certain as to what I was thinking about…”

    It’s that California sun, Pat M.

  34. Pat M. June 8th, 2012 at 4:05 pm

    Wave……Indeed, the sun and the special brownies

  35. Wave Your Hat June 8th, 2012 at 4:06 pm

    Rich-

    We all know where you are coming from. It’s OK to miss Montero, but you need to let go and quit taking it out on Martin, who as of today is average offensively and good defensively and is not the Yanks’ problem.

  36. Rich in NJ June 8th, 2012 at 4:06 pm

    “Rich, you are listening to others…I was a catcher and I know what I saw.”

    I played 2B, I know what I read.

    ” An excellent hitting catcher, who threw extremely well and blocked balls well.”

    Actually, a lot was made when Pena first got here about how he much he improved Posada’s throwing, and it wasn’t early in Posada’s career.

    “His issues was that he was not a good receiver early on.”

    So you largely agree with what I said.

    “Montero may do that as well (I don’t know).”

    Neither do I. My point is why abort it for the riskiest of assets?

  37. Rich in NJ June 8th, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    “We all know where you are coming from. It’s OK to miss Montero, but you need to let go and quit taking it out on Martin, who as of today is average offensively and good defensively and is not the Yanks’ problem.”

    You can think what you want, truth be damned.

  38. blake June 8th, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    Yankees set to up their bid on Soler to two boxes of Cuban cigars from their opening bid of one.

  39. Jerzz June 8th, 2012 at 4:08 pm

    .730 OPS catchers with gold glove defense and game-calling ability don’t grow on trees.
    He has a higher OPS than Brian McCaan, Santana, Arenicibia, Kurt Suzuki, etc.

  40. Wave Your Hat June 8th, 2012 at 4:08 pm

    I hope the Yanks are serious about Soler.

  41. Rich in NJ June 8th, 2012 at 4:08 pm

    “Yankees set to up their bid on Soler to two boxes of Cuban cigars from their opening bid of one.”

    That reminds me of a Seinfeld episode.`

  42. yankeefan0506 June 8th, 2012 at 4:08 pm

    Not much of a reason but probably a late-game matchup play. Price and Santana are both lefties. Most likely going to be looking at a RH relief pitcher. Girardi can switch out Jones with Chavez at DH. Probably feels Ibanez is better batter then Nix/Wise regardless against Santana (has seen him more???). If Jones is in LF he can’t move Ibanez there from DH. Last night he started Nix there, ph w/ Chavez and then put Wise out there.

  43. UnKnown June 8th, 2012 at 4:09 pm

    http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/.....ref=sports

    —-

    Interesting article. I think this was specifically talked about on here by some when Hughes caught Martin in Anaheim.

  44. Rich in NJ June 8th, 2012 at 4:10 pm

    Yup, I said Stewart called a better game.

  45. Pat M. June 8th, 2012 at 4:12 pm

    Sign the Cuban Outfielders….

  46. Rich in NJ June 8th, 2012 at 4:13 pm

    And Flaherty made a similar point during the game about Martin’s pitch calling with Hughes v. Anaheim.

  47. AZ88 June 8th, 2012 at 4:14 pm

    Flash loves all-glove, no stick catchers like himself and Girardi, so that immediately should have shown that Martin must be botching something badly

  48. blake June 8th, 2012 at 4:17 pm

    “Sign the Cuban Outfielders….”

    this…however now it’s only “outfielder”

  49. Wave Your Hat June 8th, 2012 at 4:18 pm

    In 5 years Stewart has been released or allowed to become a free agent 4 times, and traded 3 times.

  50. theREALkevin June 8th, 2012 at 4:18 pm

    Russell Martin isn’t a gold glove caliber catcher right now. I know he has won a gold glove in the past, but right now he’s not the best. He’s good but not gold glove quality. This year he already has 4 passed balls, as much as he allowed all of 2011. He’s also only thrown out 23% of runners this year which is well below what is considered good.

  51. Rich in NJ June 8th, 2012 at 4:19 pm

    Yeah, hitting catchers are rare and valuable. See Salty.

  52. austinmac June 8th, 2012 at 4:19 pm

    I hope Olney is right that the Yankees are in the bidding. The Cubs may be hard to beat as the new management would surely like to do something the fans would like. The team is amazingly bad. I also note boy genius intends to fix the team by trading his bad players for value. Dempster, for example, has pitched well this year, but I wouldn’t give up much for him.

  53. austinmac June 8th, 2012 at 4:22 pm

    Blake and Pat M.,

    The Yankees have already signed the 5’7″ Cuban outfielder. Now, all they need is Soler to be plural.

  54. There Will Never Be Another Mo June 8th, 2012 at 4:22 pm

    Rich in NJ June 8th, 2012 at 4:19 pm
    Yeah, hitting catchers are rare and valuable. See Salty.

    ********

    Wich naturally explains why wonderkind Jon Daniels and genius Nolan Ryan got rid of him. . . .

  55. Rich in NJ June 8th, 2012 at 4:26 pm

    “Wich naturally explains why wonderkind Jon Daniels and genius Nolan Ryan got rid of him. . . .”

    The guy got hurt, and they got Napoli…naturally.

  56. GreenBeret7 June 8th, 2012 at 4:32 pm

    Saltalamacchia has been in Boston for 3 years. This is Napoli’s 2nd year. Do Texas management skills now include seeing into the future?

  57. There Will Never Be Another Mo June 8th, 2012 at 4:33 pm

    I actually think Cashman is trying – and has tried – to put together a 21 team on a budget of 110 million the past few years.

    First, there is the ARod contract. It is a sunk cost, not his fault, 27.5 million Hank in the 2007 moment that a lot of Yankees fans actually wanted at the time.

    Second, Tex and C.C. contracts (both of C.C.’s), when they were signed were sunk costs and had to dos – no one disputes those now. That is around another – what 45 million added to ARod’s salary. Then add to that Jeter’s contract, which had to be done, and no other GM would be under that kind of PR pressure, regardless of what was said publically or not. Jeter makes approx 15.

    So that 87.5 millionish that are contracts that had to be made at the time they were entered into. They are also set in stone for years to come – except Jeter after 2014 (but he still impacts that budget).

    The Yankees payroll has hovered around 210 million on average – so that leaves Cashman with appox. 123 million in discretionary ways to spend the other resources over the years. Remember 87.5 million was already locked in, no dispute, nothing wrong with it.

    Now how he has spent the rest of the money, when factoring in the 40 man, insurance contracts, other costs associated, that is the debate.

    But Cashman, in actuality, does not appear to have the same financial advantage that some here claim he has had over the seasons as other GMs such as Ruben in Philly or Jon Daniels now in Texas or Theo in Boston. You have to evaluate Cashman with his peers, and all of those GMs I just named have warts on them, as does Cashman.

  58. Wave Your Hat June 8th, 2012 at 4:33 pm

    I’m still waiting to hear that good hitting catcher the Yanks could have if Cashman would only pick up the phone. Maybe the Giants are anxious to move Posey. I’m sure Martin and Betances would land him…

  59. Jerkface June 8th, 2012 at 4:34 pm

    Do Texas management skills now include seeing into the future?

    He had a lot of problems in his time in Texas, including forgetting how to throw the ball back to the catcher. They acquired him originally because he was a 2 way prospect at catcher which is rare indeed. Acquiring Napoli merely shows their continued mindset in acquiring good hitting catchers.

  60. There Will Never Be Another Mo June 8th, 2012 at 4:34 pm

    Rich in NJ June 8th, 2012 at 4:26 pm
    “Wich naturally explains why wonderkind Jon Daniels and genius Nolan Ryan got rid of him. . . .”

    The guy got hurt, and they got Napoli…naturally.

    ********

    Daniels and the Rangers group were already down on Salt. Daniels has made some bad moves and good moves. But he gets way too much credit – as Nolan – as some make it out to be. Salt was not a given.

  61. AZ88 June 8th, 2012 at 4:34 pm

    Yankees history is predicated on above average hitting catchers, basically all of their dynasties had one. They’ve excelled at getting production from premium positions.

    Especially now with the middle of the order in decline and not having a circular lineup anymore, it is important not to give away outs. Maybe on the 05-07 or 09 team they could have lived with Martin as a blackhole hitting 9th, but they need more production from all of their players now to make up for the deficiencies in the other spots in the lineup.

  62. The Genius Maker June 8th, 2012 at 4:35 pm

    Rich in NJ June 8th, 2012 at 4:06 pm

    “Rich, you are listening to others…I was a catcher and I know what I saw.”

    I played 2B, I know what I read.

    ” An excellent hitting catcher, who threw extremely well and blocked balls well.”

    Actually, a lot was made when Pena first got here about how he much he improved Posada’s throwing, and it wasn’t early in Posada’s career.

    “His issues was that he was not a good receiver early on.”

    So you largely agree with what I said.

    “Montero may do that as well (I don’t know).”

    Neither do I. My point is why abort it for the riskiest of assets?
    ********

    Rich, you are killing me. You are incorrect at almost every turn here. First, when someone is analyzing the catchers position and they list all their attributes and then they say their receiving skills are poor, they are referring to the ability to catch the ball well (frame it).

    As for the throwing, Posada was very good early in his career; a lot better than Girardi (I have done the research many times…I can if you really don;t believe it…and it was before Pena got here.

    and if you believe what you read, almost everyone in the writing community and baseball “experts” thought the Yankees got a young stud for a young stud DH. That is a good trade Rich and if Pineda did a little worse than last year we would be very happy

  63. The Genius Maker June 8th, 2012 at 4:38 pm

    hitting catchers are rare and valuable.
    ********

    I do agree with this Rich, although i would add if they are defensively average

  64. AZ88 June 8th, 2012 at 4:40 pm

    No one criticizes Cashman for the Jeter, CC, Tex, ARod deals. It is what he did with the other money he had to play with, the development of pitchers and the farm, and his trades, that have drawn the criticism.

  65. The Genius Maker June 8th, 2012 at 4:41 pm

    Especially now with the middle of the order in decline and not having a circular lineup anymore, it is important not to give away outs. Maybe on the 05-07 or 09 team they could have lived with Martin as a blackhole hitting 9th, but they need more production from all of their players now to make up for the deficiencies in the other spots in the lineup.

    *******

    Stewart would be a black hole, but this is backward thinking…the rest of the lineup isn;t doing their job so let’s “blame” the catcher who is not hitting great either? He is average right now and that would be good with his defense (which is very good at the least)

  66. Rich in NJ June 8th, 2012 at 4:42 pm

    “Rich, you are killing me”

    Because you are skewing facts to support your point?

    Posada’s defense was maligned since he was brought up. That was part of the reason that Girardi got to catch so many games, almost certainly inhibiting Posada’s development curve.

    But it really doesn’t matter. The point was that people are maligning Montero’s defense, but that he still has a chance to improve. You agreed with that.

    “That is a good trade Rich and if Pineda did a little worse than last year we would be very happy”

    The risk of injury was too high. Many of us said it at the time of the trade. I am only bringing this up because of what you said.

    They have no ML ready bats of any note since they got rid of the only one they had.

    The trade sucked then. It sucks worse now.

  67. The Genius Maker June 8th, 2012 at 4:43 pm

    I guess you mean, Garcia and Colon last year or getting Cory Wade or Ibanez (who I was right now wrongly against getting BTW)..

  68. There Will Never Be Another Mo June 8th, 2012 at 4:44 pm

    AZ88 June 8th, 2012 at 4:40 pm
    No one criticizes Cashman for the Jeter, CC, Tex, ARod deals. It is what he did with the other money he had to play with, the development of pitchers and the farm, and his trades, that have drawn the criticism.

    ********

    That is fair. But I do not think he had an overwhelming financial advantage after what was left over on had to do deals, some of them out of his control (like ARod and Jeter).

    But I think you will find similar criticisms with Jon Daniels, Theo, and Ruben in Philly, just as you would with Cashman. That is the point I was really trying to say. GMs make some good moves, some bad moves, and you see where your team is playing in October. If they make it consistently, you are doing a good job. And a lot of times, the best team does not always win it all. Sometimes they do (Yankees 2009), sometimes you just get hot at the right time (Yankees 2000, Cardinals 2011).

  69. blake June 8th, 2012 at 4:45 pm

    what happened to Adonas? where is he?

  70. There Will Never Be Another Mo June 8th, 2012 at 4:46 pm

    The trade sucked then. It sucks worse now.

    ***********

    I do not see it impacting the team THIS year. Now if Pineda cannot come back next spring, then we have a problem. But right now, I will take Ibanez’s production at DH over Montero so far this year, and then I would take Martin’s defense behding the plate so far this year. Now in 2013, things could look different. But it is too hard to tell just yet.

  71. Triple Short of a Cycle June 8th, 2012 at 4:49 pm

    But I think you will find similar criticisms with Jon Daniels, Theo, and Ruben in Philly, just as you would with Cashman.

    —————————————————————-

    Let me know when Cash could trade nothing and wind up with Halladay,Lee,Oswalt and Pence

  72. Wave Your Hat June 8th, 2012 at 4:50 pm

    The trade did not suck then. It did if you loved Montero and wanted him to play for the Yanks. Otherwise, it was a good trade.

    It doesn’t look great at the moment, but things can change. If Pineda comes back strong things will change, because a strong Pineda is what the Yanks need in the context of a $189M cap.

  73. Duh Innings June 8th, 2012 at 4:51 pm

    Enough with A-Rod batting cleanup to justify his contract. A-Rod should bat sixth tonight (Cano cleanup, Swisher fifth.)

    When Gardner returns, this is the batting order I want to see:

    Gardner L (The Yanks’ best stolen base threat leading off.)
    Nunez S 3B (Let’s see what he can do playing every day at one position.)
    Jeter R (A career .300+ hitter batting third.)
    Cano L (A career .300+ hitter with power batting cleanup.)
    Teixiera S (Switch-hitter breaking up the lefty bats.)
    Granderson L (Power and speed towards the end of the lineup.)
    Swisher S (OBP in the seventh slot.)
    Ibanez L DH (That’s right, bench A-Rod, too bad if A-Rod doesn’t like it. Let him be benched for a guy making $1.1M for this year only.)
    Martin R (He has some speed and stolen base ability.)

  74. Jerkface June 8th, 2012 at 4:52 pm

    The trade did not suck then. It did if you loved Montero and wanted him to play for the Yanks. Otherwise, it was a good trade.

    It sucked if you thought the Yankees spent their 1 bullet on a lotto ticket.

  75. Rich in NJ June 8th, 2012 at 4:52 pm

    “I do not see it impacting the team THIS year.”

    It was never just about this year.

    “The trade did not suck then. It did if you loved Montero and wanted him to play for the Yanks. Otherwise, it was a good trade.”

    That you keep missing this probably proves I don’t post it enough:

    “They have no ML ready bats of any note since they got rid of the only one they had.”

  76. The Genius Maker June 8th, 2012 at 4:53 pm

    The trade sucked then. It sucks worse now.
    *********

    I disagree with the first part…and don;t say I am skewing the facts…I was on my blog yelling at Torre that Posada should have been playing over Girardi and wrote long diatribes about how Posada was better than Girardi every where except speed and framing pitches…it wasn’t close. The arguments used to be that Girardi was clutch…he had 1 RBI in something like 105 postseason AB’s, but people just don;t know

  77. Wave Your Hat June 8th, 2012 at 4:53 pm

    “It sucked if you thought the Yankees spent their 1 bullet on a lotto ticket.”

    Like I said/. The lotto ticket concept is psychological transference of post-partum Montero depression.

  78. Wave Your Hat June 8th, 2012 at 4:54 pm

    “That you keep missing this probably proves I don’t post it enough:”

    You are boring, you repeat the same assertions over and over, in a dull way.

  79. Triple Short of a Cycle June 8th, 2012 at 4:55 pm

    Why do people think that Pineda’s injury is no big deal and that the probability of him coming back just like he was is good??

  80. Rich in NJ June 8th, 2012 at 4:55 pm

    “You are boring, you repeat the same assertions over and over, in a dull way.”

    Says the guy who posts WAR over sample sizes so small as to make them comical.

  81. tomingeorgia June 8th, 2012 at 4:56 pm

    Just checked in after being in a coma since February 1. See nothing has changed. Back to sleep.

  82. Wave Your Hat June 8th, 2012 at 4:59 pm

    “Says the guy who posts WAR over sample sizes so small as to make them comical.”

    Small sample size is only a problem if you want to project them, and I defy you to find where I ever did that.

    But who cares, the fun part is you are still gnawing over that one.

    I’m telling you, Rich, Montero loss is eating you up. For your own good, let it go.

  83. Triple Short of a Cycle June 8th, 2012 at 4:59 pm

    Just checked in after being in a coma since February 1. See nothing has changed. Back to sleep.

    ——————————————————————–

    and I see the same people complaining about what is discussed on a Blog

  84. Shame Spencer June 8th, 2012 at 5:00 pm

    Triple Short of a Cycle June 8th, 2012 at 4:55 pm

    Why do people think that Pineda’s injury is no big deal and that the probability of him coming back just like he was is good??

    —————————————-

    Because people don’t understand the fragility of young starting pitchers? We might not see a decent version of Pineda until he’s 25-26…. like Hughes.

    So, on the plus side, it’ll be fun having this conversation for the next 3-4 years.

  85. Triple Short of a Cycle June 8th, 2012 at 5:03 pm

    Because people don’t understand the fragility of young starting pitchers? We might not see a decent version of Pineda until he’s 25-26…. like Hughes.

    —————————————————————–

    No I mean ever. The success rate is very small and I can only think of 2 or 3 guys who came back to form

  86. Rich in NJ June 8th, 2012 at 5:03 pm

    “So, on the plus side, it’ll be fun having this conversation for the next 3-4 years.”

    If, on the flip side, it means that both Joba and Hughes are finally thriving in the NYY rotation for years to come, I’ll deal. Just sayin’…

  87. Wave Your Hat June 8th, 2012 at 5:05 pm

    “The success rate is very small and I can only think of 2 or 3 guys who came back to form”

    We don’t even know what kind of labrum tear it was. Don’t try to analyze it in the absence of facts. It isn’t going to change anything, just wait and see.

  88. AZ88 June 8th, 2012 at 5:06 pm

    “It sucked if you thought the Yankees spent their 1 bullet on a lotto ticket.”

    Bingo. If they got King Felix instead, the complaints would be far less prevalent. Hell, same thing if they got Cliff Lee.

    They traded away their only real prospect with big time value for a guy with no track record, just a high upside. Elbow problems in the minors, not a great fit for NYS

    Also, the offense was getting older, with no help anywhere remotely close to the majors.

    It’s not trading Montero, it is what they traded him for.

  89. Dionysius Thelxinoe June 8th, 2012 at 5:10 pm

    Triple Short of a Cycle says:
    June 8, 2012 at 4:59 pm
    Just checked in after being in a coma since February 1. See nothing has changed. Back to sleep.

    ——————————————————————–

    and I see the same people complaining about what is discussed on a Blog

    —————

    No.

    Not complaining about WHAT is discussed on a blog, but about beating a dead horse over and over and over …

  90. Triple Short of a Cycle June 8th, 2012 at 5:11 pm

    Not complaining about WHAT is discussed on a blog, but about beating a dead horse over and over and over

    ——————————————————————-

    Kind of the same thing

  91. Yank 97 June 8th, 2012 at 5:12 pm

    “No I mean ever. The success rate is very small and I can only think of 2 or 3 guys who came back to form”

    For every Chris Carpenter, there are 10 Ben Sheets, Brandon Webbs, Chris Youngs, Mark Priors, etc.

    He needs to not only come back and stay healthy, he needs to hope he didn’t lose anything off his velocity.

    After those two BIG IFs are answered, we move onto the fact that he is a project as a pitcher (his own GM said as much in ST) who needs to fine tune his secondary stuff. Then he needs to get used to pitching an increased workload. Then he needs to adjust to being a flyball pitcher in NYS and asjuting to NY. etc

    There are far far too many variables for anyone to be confident in his full recovery… which is what he needs. If he comes back and has a Phil Hughes-esque run for a few years, the trade is the worst one in franchise history.

  92. Rich in NJ June 8th, 2012 at 5:12 pm

    “It’s not trading Montero, it is what they traded him for.”

    This.

  93. tomingeorgia June 8th, 2012 at 5:13 pm

    Will Montero be a “generational” hitter? Will Pineda ever pitch to form again? Beats the hell out of me. But Shame, it’ll take that long to find out.

    Triple, short of things to say? There’s lots of things going on in baseball and with the Yankees, today. The guy who lots of people thought we should sign is pitching against us tonight. That’s fun, isn’t it? The Nats and Mets are striving for redemption, the O’s hang in there, the Marlins shoot dolphins into the air. OCD is a grave malady, so maybe webmd.com is the proper venue.

  94. mick June 8th, 2012 at 5:13 pm

    why is ibanez playing against the lefty?

  95. mick June 8th, 2012 at 5:16 pm

    Just checked in after being in a coma since February 1. See nothing has changed. Back to sleep.
    =====================
    i thought you had a surgical procedure?

  96. Warning Track Power June 8th, 2012 at 5:16 pm

    Does Reggie have his own locker at the Stadium?
    Does he dress with the rest of the team?

    Makes me wonder sometimes how that situation works out

  97. mick June 8th, 2012 at 5:17 pm

    Will Montero be a “generational” hitter?

    “It’s not trading Montero, it is what they traded him for.”
    ====================================
    STOP ALREADY.

  98. GreenBeret7 June 8th, 2012 at 5:19 pm

    Soler

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....um=twitter

  99. Wave Your Hat June 8th, 2012 at 5:20 pm

    “why is ibanez playing against the lefty?”

    The binder shows 50 PA vs Santana, with a triple slash line of .348/.380/.500.

  100. Triple Short of a Cycle June 8th, 2012 at 5:21 pm

    You think I could give a crap about Jarhead’s constant minor league ups? But you don’t hear me complaining about it. I just skip over it

  101. mick June 8th, 2012 at 5:21 pm

    The binder shows 50 PA vs Santana, with a triple slash line of .348/.380/.500.
    ===========================
    ty wyh

  102. Dionysius Thelxinoe June 8th, 2012 at 5:22 pm

    Triple Short of a Cycle says:
    June 8, 2012 at 5:11 pm
    Not complaining about WHAT is discussed on a blog, but about beating a dead horse over and over and over

    ——————————————————————-

    Kind of the same thing

    ——

    Uh, no it’s not. Not at all. Not even close.

  103. Pat M. June 8th, 2012 at 5:28 pm

    GB…….I know of one organizations scout who raves about Soler but thinks he’s at least a season away from being in the Bigs…….Other than that all I know about Soler is what is written…….Eric Davis comparison

  104. blake June 8th, 2012 at 5:29 pm

    If Soler can be ready by 2014 then they should definitely sign him unless they just dont think hes that good.

  105. Wave Your Hat June 8th, 2012 at 5:33 pm

    Looks like a lot of teams are still chasing Soler. For those with an idea, is he going to get Cespedes money?

  106. Jerkface June 8th, 2012 at 5:34 pm

    For those with an idea, is he going to get Cespedes money?

    Less, but a major league deal for 20+ mil I think.

  107. blake June 8th, 2012 at 5:35 pm

    “Less, but a major league deal for 20+ mil I think.”

    If hes any good and can be in their outfield by 2014 or close to then then hes worth that…….he could acrually help rhe budget if that happened.

  108. GregD June 8th, 2012 at 5:35 pm

    So what does everybody think of the Montero trade? ;)

  109. GreenBeret7 June 8th, 2012 at 5:36 pm

    Pat M.,

    I haven’t seen any clips on soler, . Only know what I’ve read, so, I can’t make any sort of judgment on him. Just can’t see people dumping $20-$30 Mil on anybody for 4 years. He’s spend half of that time in the minor leagues.

  110. blake June 8th, 2012 at 5:38 pm

    Cool to see Strasburg against the Sawks tonight …..hope he mows

  111. Wave Your Hat June 8th, 2012 at 5:41 pm

    Have to run. Thanks for the thoughts on Soler, everyone.

  112. Pat M. June 8th, 2012 at 5:41 pm

    GB….That’s the message I picked up on when Soler was being talked about, he’s 2 year guy in the minors….It’s said that he has skills and will be a big leaguer !!!

  113. Jerkface June 8th, 2012 at 5:42 pm

    Just can’t see people dumping $20-$30 Mil on anybody for 4 years. He’s spend half of that time in the minor leagues.

    A 6 year deal is more likely, but even if its only 4 years as long as he doesnt have a free agency clause they will retain control of him based on years of service. They will be able to option him for up to 4 years, but because that begins right away (due to putting him on the 40 man) they will have a minimum of 6 years of control and a maximum of 10 depending on how long he spends in the minors.

    2-3 years in the minors is likely. So it becomes a question of if it is worth it to spend ~10 million on developing him.

  114. randy l. June 8th, 2012 at 5:47 pm

    “I was on my blog yelling at Torre that Posada should have been playing over Girardi and wrote long diatribes about how Posada was better than Girardi every where except speed and framing pitches”

    steve-

    that must have one of the early baseball blogs. do you have any old archives of that time?

    when an offensive catcher like montero has a 3.94 cera , there’s not much lower a better defensive catcher can do. maybe a little. but that’s the point because once a guy is adequate there’s not a whole lot to improve on.

    offensively however if a team has a .550 ops guy and they can replace him with an .850 guy, there are a lot more runs to be produced by the better hitter. so the floor doesn’t go much lower with a better defensive catcher, but the ceiling goes a lot higher with a better offensive catcher.

    “adequate” is the operative word.”cera” may be of limited use sabermetrically, but it’s a fact that montero has given up 3.94 runs per game when he catches. it does’t tell us how, but it tells us he’s adequate.

    montero being adequate as a catcher makes him really valuable when he gets to an above .800 OPS.

    when he catches he is the highest OPS in the american league for over 80 at bats:

    Sortable Batting
    RK PLAYER TEAM AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG OBP SLG OPS
    1 John Hester LAA 21 3 7 1 0 1 1 0 0 4 4 .333 .440 .524 .964
    2 Jesus Montero SEA 85 10 29 5 0 5 14 0 0 6 13 .341 .380 .576 .957
    3 Joe Mauer MIN 96 21 34 6 0 2 17 1 1 17 6 .354 .451 .479 .930
    4 Jarrod Saltalamacchia BOS 136 20 39 11 0 10 25 0 0 10 37 .287 .333 .588 .922
    5 Mike Napoli TEX 114 22 33 3 2 6 21 0 0 16 38 .289 .388 .509 .897
    6 Kelly Shoppach BOS 67 9 18 6 1 3 9 1 0 6 27 .269 .372 .522 .894
    7 A.J. Pierzynski CHW 179 28 54 7 2 10 37 0 0 12 18 .302 .347 .531 .878
    8 Jeff Mathis TOR 39 8 9 2 0 3 6 0 0 5 15 .231 .318 .513 .831
    9 Gerald Laird DET 43 8 13 2 0 2 4 0 0 2 3 .302 .326 .488 .814
    10 John Jaso SEA 42 8 11 5 0 1 7 0 0 5 4 .262 .333 .452 .786
    RK PLAYER TEAM AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG OBP SLG OPS
    Matt Wieters BAL 168 21 41 8 0 9 24 0 0 19 38 .244 .333 .452 .786
    12 Alex Avila DET 138 18 35 8 1 5 20 2 0 17 37 .254 .333 .435 .768
    13 Tyler Flowers CHW 35 6 8 2 0 2 2 1 0 2 14 .229 .308 .457 .765
    14 Carlos Santana CLE 131 20 33 6 0 4 22 2 1 28 31 .252 .374 .389 .764
    15 Russell Martin NYY 134 15 29 7 0 6 17 1 0 21 28 .216 .348 .403 .751

    an interesting aside is that martin has a .751OPS when he catches

  115. GreenBeret7 June 8th, 2012 at 6:05 pm

    Thanks for the info Pat. My only objection to the refugees and bidding on Japanese players are the insane money for rookies. The teams would no more think of paying that sort of money for high school or college kids on the open market than fly. If NYYs sign soler, great. He might help the team greatly. If not, Soler is like the recent draftees. I haven’t seen them, so, it’s no issue for me.

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