Hughes hopes to keep building tonight
Posted by: Josh Thomson - Posted in Misc on Jun 09, 2012 
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Phil Hughes will return to the mound tonight with everyone wondering if his 2012 has finally “turned a corner.” The cliché would appear fleeting in baseball, but ask Joe Girardi and he’ll tell you Hughes already had his season well around the bend.
“He was throwing pretty well before the Anaheim start. He had a poor start and people kind of forgot about those other starts he threw pretty well,” Girardi said. “I think he turned the corner. I think he just had a hiccup against the Angels.”
After a rocky outing in Anaheim, Hughes threw his first career complete game on Sunday in Detroit. He will pitch against the Mets tonight hoping to prove his last outing represented the pitcher he is, not just the one he wants to be.
“It was good. It was good. I try not to really think about them too much,” Hughes said. “I try to build on each start and hopefully that’ll be a good building block for me this year, but I still have to go out and pitch well (tonight).”
The first corner for Hughes was really just a gradual bend. Although he has rarely been dominant outside of Sunday, his season recovered from pretty disastrous depths beginning May 6 in Kansas City. Hughes is 4-1 with a 3.60 ERA and 48 baserunners allowed in 40 innings since then, even with the start in Anaheim included. He continues to be victimized by the long ball, allowing 13 and at least one in every start.
His raw numbers (4-4, 4.96 ERA, 1.35 WHIP) seem slightly worse than what would be expected. All metrics point to him pitching into some bad luck, especially when you factor in a career-worst home-run rate.
Hughes believes the return of Andy Pettitte has provided somewhat of a boost. He leaned on Pettitte Sunday, asking the veteran, along with pitching coach Larry Rothschild, if they saw the need for slight adjustments. He made one during the third and fourth innings, keeping his body on line in order to conceal the ball better. From then, Hughes sailed along.
“I talked to him a lot. He’s a great guy to bounce things off of,” Hughes said of Pettitte. “He watches every inning of every game. He’s always out there for you, giving you an honest opinion if you have questions. It’s been good. I’m obviously not going to keep him out of retirement as long as I play, but while he is here it’s good to have him around.”
Hughes would like to believe that snapshot against the Tigers was actually the real Phil Hughes. He’s yet to pitch like the budding prospect picked to represent the AL in the All-Star Game when he won 18 games in 2010, but he envisions himself as that person, not the starter struggling constantly with inconsistency.
“I’d like to think I’m the more successful one out of the two, but as many highs as there are there are just as many lows,” he said. “I’m trying to be that solid, consistent pitcher for us.”
Congrats to Millwood et al and Montero last night on the no no.
Compass, Seager is a good solid ball player….
As mentioned the Yanks rotation has really stepped up of late….all 5 guys have been doing their parts and giving the Yanks both length and good chances to win over this good stretch they are playing……thr bullpen is only going to get stronger as they get guys back from injjury.
Go Hughes!
I dont think its coincidence that all the pitchers started going better around the time Andy came back.
Good morning.
It’s nice to see the pitching staff feeding off of each others starting performances and each try and outdo the other. We might have had two no-hitters last night had Kuroda not given up that lone hit in the 6th.
Joba-Cleared to run. When asked if he would return this season-” Is that even a question.”
Aardsma-throwing bullpen sessions and might pitch a simulated game next week according to an AP report
Soler-Is this a man-child or what!!
http://bronxbaseballdaily.com/.....ree-agent/
Yea Soler looks like a monster physically …..they should.sign him.
Gardner 1 for 3 last night for Charleston, his home-might be back Monday-opening series with Braves.
blake June 9th, 2012 at 8:04 am
As mentioned the Yanks rotation has really stepped up of late….all 5 guys have been doing their parts and giving the Yanks both length and good chances to win over this good stretch they are playing……thr bullpen is only going to get stronger as they get guys back from injury.
________________________________________
I agree totally…….it takes pressure off the bats as well………
D-Rob to pitch a minor league rehab game on Sunday, again on Tuesday, and if all goes well-Activated. Said he felt fine after a bullpen session Thursday, in which he said he threw the baseball hard.
Good news just keeps on coming!
And, in an appropriately dated article, this from Tyler Kepner on Highes in today’s NY Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06.....odayspaper
Whoops – HUGHES, not Highes.
Does anyone know status of Campos in Charleston? is he still dealing with tendonitis?
Mornin’ guys.
Kuroda was dealin’.
Hope the foot is OK.
AP is a teriffic influence around that clubhouse.
SP is becoming the strength I always thought it would be.
GregD-
This is the only thing I could find on Campos, dated 5/31/12:
The others I updated above.
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-yo.....ose-campos
Justsaying-
Enjoyed the NY Times article on Hughes. Looks like he can now make adjustments on the fly:
Early in the game, Hughes noticed he needed to keep his front shoulder closed, put his body on a direct line to the plate and hide the ball a bit longer. He shared the idea with the pitching coach, Larry Rothschild, and Andy Pettitte, who agreed with it. The results were encouraging.
Last night’s game was one of the most enjoyable Yankee games to watch to date. Great pitching by Kuroda. 7 of the 11 hits were for extra bases. I liked what I saw from Igarasha in terms of velocity. If he can harness his control-probably nerves-he could help. Did the radar gun actually read 97 mph?
Warren now has two straight seven innings of shutout games plus a pretty good game before that. It would be great for him to be an option.
Meanwhile, my Soler watch continues. Come on Yankees. Step up.
Question on Campos?
Is his agent seeking the quickest route for him to the majors in these bids, or just the biggest contract. The Cubs have apparently scouted him extensively. Would they put him on the 40 man, send him to the minors for a short stint, and bring him up this season?
YT,
My favorite Yankee games are when they score ten runs in the first and slowly pull away.
I had no idea Igarasha threw so hard. His splitter didn’t seem to have much movement though. Still, 97 is 97. He reminded me a bit of League.
I meant question on Soler. Oops
I wonder if taking last year off has helped Pettitte refine his pitching approach. Perhaps that outside perspective helped? He’s been a revelation.
Hopefully Hughes keeps growing into his own. What if he does become a solid pitcher? Would that change everyone’s opinion of the Yankees developement system?
I agree MTU, you can’t ignore Andy’s invaluablel leadership to the pitching staff.
Considering the fact that this is the last time to sign an international FA under the current (luxury tax friendly) rules it would be very disappointing for the Yanks not to bid aggressively for Soler.
If $ 25 M is the alleged goal, put $ 15 M in a signing bonus, 5 years @ $ 2 M a year has a negligible affect on payroll. The signing bonus might be the key to winning this one.
Last night was awesome. Two Cano lasers and Kuroda definitely the highllights.
YT,
You mean Soler, of course. It’s early.
Yankee Trader June 9th, 2012 at 8:43 am
Question on Campos?
Is his agent seeking the quickest route for him to the majors in these bids, or just the biggest contract. The Cubs have apparently scouted him extensively. Would they put him on the 40 man, send him to the minors for a short stint, and bring him up this season?
————————-
I think that’s the $25 million question. The Yankees can’t beat that offer, nor should they try.
I don’t know if there’s any evidence to suggest that teams are willing to put him on their 40-man, and I don’t know if that’s what his party is looking for. I just have a feeling a more desperate team will land him.
A 6 pitcher no hitter = too much cap tipping.
Austinmac-
Did you think Brian Bruney also? Russell Branyan had another homer for SWB last night, #4
On Soler [not Campos]-
Expectations are that he will sign for around five-years and $15 million. The Yankees have been cool to a lot of big name international free agents lately, but considering that he’s still young and they have struggled big time with one outfielder out this season and another is set to become a free agent at the end of the year it could force them to be a bit more aggressive.
This seems low based on other rumors. Posted this article above on this man-child:
http://bronxbaseballdaily.com/.....ree-agent/
YT,
I just thought of League as he kind of slings it. Let’s hope not Bruney.
What can they do with Branyon? I don’t see who he can replace.
Branyan would be a replacement for Ibanez, if he gets injured. I’m not sure if he can still play the field. Didn’t he come up as a 3rd baseman?
Have to go. Have a great day everyone. It’s time for the Yankee hitters to step it up again, especially the next 14 interleague games, 9 of which are in NL parks with no DH.
Branyan has not seen significant time at 3B since 2008, but has played there a lot in his career… over 300 games.
Would expect to see him at 3B some for Scranton if that’s part of the plan, but it seems like he would only come up if something happened to Ibanez, Teixiera or Chavez.
Nice trade chip if he keeps mashing though… 4 HR in 24 AB.
I wonder if Branyon has an opt out at some point. It would be fun to see him take some swings at NYS. I doubt he could still play third, but who knows.
Thanks for the feedback on Branyan. I thnk he did elect to return to the Yankees after opting out???
Until later.
randy l. June 9th, 2012 at 9:10 am
yankeefeminista June 9th, 2012 at 2:55 am
“Montero is catching = can catch. Not sure why this debate goes on ad nauseum. The troops have to mobilize because people are congratulating the kid for catching a no hitter. It’s just petty, sour grapes. Get over it.”
this deserves repeating.
it is absolutely amazing how hard it is for seemingly intelligent people to admit they were wrong about montero with his catching.
the thing that all knowledgeable yankee fans should be caring about is who made the incorrect evaluation of montero and whether he’s still making bad evaluations with the yankees.
montero is having a great life. i’m happy for the kid.
people that root against him are just doubling down on being wrong in the first place and prolonging their agony.
montero is the best hitting catcher in the american league with over 80 at bats in the catcher position.
the kid is a monster talent.
barring injury, a perennial all star.
absolutely love those 9 runs last night.
i am a real big fan of offense.
i just love great hitting.
i love it way more when the opposition is held to one run too
Really bummed that just as Kuroda has hit his stride, he gets hit by that comebacker. Drats! I hope it’s what they say – a bone bruise – though those can be painful – with no long-term effects. Since they have Phelps, I hope they err on the side of caution and have Kuroda miss one start. I was glad to see the Yankees give him some run support last night. He has been on the receiving end of some paltry offense most of the season.
It’s always a lot of fun when the Yankees win in the manner in which they did last night. Love the tack-on runs. (But because fans are usually fatalistic, I also kept thinking: “save some for the next two nights, guys!”)
So impressed by Joba’s progress. And happy to hear that DRob and Gardy are likely going to be back sometime next week, though I’m waiting to hear how Gardy feels today.
Andy being back is so beneficial to the Yankees. Glad that Hughes is smart enough to use the resources available to him!
so, we’re still talking about Montero??? this is the Montero blog……
I don’t understand people rooting against Montero, either.
He’s playing mostly every day; he’s getting an opportunity to catch even if it’s not as the first-string catcher (though in Seattle, I’m not sure anyone is – it seems to be more a rotating position?).
He’s having a “nice” first third of the season.
I wish he was still ours. But he’s not. I don’t see how denigrating how he’s doing does anything to change the situation. I don’t see how denigrating the Yankees for making the trade changes the situation, either. Didn’t like the trade, didn’t anticipate the trade, but can understand the reasoning for the trade (as I see it). Until and unless Pineda becomes a fixture in the rotation, though, you can’t say whether or not the trade is a fair one. But if someone forced me to commit to a bottom line opinion, I’d say the Yankees over-estimated ARod’s production going forward, which allowed them to think they had another year or two before having to supplement it, which made Montero more expendable than he should have been.
“so, we’re still talking about Montero??? this is the Montero blog…… ”
greg d-
it’s all gb7′s fault.
he started it last night.
GreenBeret7 June 8th, 2012 at 11:50 pm
“Millwood is out of the game. ”
if i’ve asked gb7 once, i’ve asked him a thousand times to please stop talking about montero and other teams
i just feel sorry for the person sitting across the breakfast table when gb7 reads the above and spits his grits all over them.
“I don’t understand people rooting against Montero, either.”
people’s egos get attached to being right when they make evaluations about things.
its human nature.
i’m the same way.
i couldn’t stand cervelli as a catcher for the yankees from the moment i saw him. once i decided that, i rooted against him always.
i’m glad he was demoted to triple a.
i hope he’s traded to another team.
though i do hope he has a fifteen year career as a catcher somewhere else.
of course, he’ll be back with the yankees because of injury this year or next because of default of not having anyone better.
then i’ll root for the yankees to win each and every game, but with no help from him
randy l -
You’re a tough one to figure out. And I’m guessing you like it that way.
I’m not gonna root against JM unless he’s playin’ against us.
Then I’ll wish for a golden sombrero, passed balls, and throwing errors.
MTU -
I’m with you on that.
VN-
All you need to know about Randy is that he’s from Maine.
That explains it all.
‘Nuff said.
I don’t believe anyone is rooting against Montero.
He is on another team now, though, so I don’t see any need to root for him, either.
I just wish Pineda had not gotten hurt.
Wave Your Hat -
“I just wish Pineda had not gotten hurt.”
Me too.
Curt Schilling running into business trouble:
http://business.financialpost......nsactions/
Good morning MTU! How are things?
If $ 25 M is the alleged goal, put $ 15 M in a signing bonus, 5 years @ $ 2 M a year has a negligible affect on payroll. The signing bonus might be the key to winning this one.
—–
Signing bonuses are prorated over the life of the contract for luxury tax purposes.
Comet-
Just fine. Really busy lately.
Another hike day today.
Hope all is well up North.
Have a great day.
I try to be around in the AM most days.
not with international free agents… until July 2
Obiously every team projects on a prospect, but when we take the position that someone is the next so-and-so, that does the player a disservice, because they will likely mature differently and end up pigeonholed into expectations.
***************
QFT. See this happen way too often nowadays.
at least i don’t think so…. could be wrong… key might be whether or not it’s a Major League contract (40-man roster) or not.
Signing bonuses for June draft picks is not part of luxury tax calculations either
Key might be whether or not it’s a Major League contract (40-man roster) or not.
——-
That’s the reason. The expectation is that Soler will get a major league deal.
I think the Yanks chances of getting him would go up with a front-loaded non-MLB deal.
“All you need to know about Randy is that he’s from Maine.
That explains it all.
‘Nuff said.”
mtu-
well, that actually was the first place i was dropped on my head
“I don’t believe anyone is rooting against Montero.”
Wave Your Hat -
i think it’s naive to think that most people don’t get attached to their viewpoints and root for themselves being right to the point of rooting against a guy like montero.
now you may not. people have egos to different degrees. but you could see last night in the late shift that some people were doubling down on their negative opinion of montero and taking it personally that they are wrong in their evaluation of his catching. it’s a hit to their ego.
someone like mtu quickly moves on from an erroneous view point ( not that they happen too often), someone like me takes longer. some others on the blog never back off from being wrong. they just leave or they try to spin being wrong.
the thing i try to remember is that it’s baseball. it’s kind of irrational to root in the first place. why put so much energy into someone else’s life. why not focus on your own?
it is probably a good thing to have some perspective on rooting by realizing that it’s kind of a dumb thing to do to be a fan ( fanatic) in the first place.
not that that is going to stop us
Can’t believe all those wussy Metsies are calling the fan complaining that Swish celebrated his homerun in the dugout and calling for someone to get ploinked today because of it.
I don’t think I know of another team which has a fan base with such an inferiority complex.
FAN
To fuel randy for a while
@swbyankeesTT: I asked just about every pitcher who can thru SWB last 2 seasons about Jesus Montero’s catching. His biggest compliments came from Millwood.
@swbyankeesTT: Millwood seemed sure montero could develop into an ok big league catcher. Said he called a great game at a young age.
Randy, here is just one persons’ (mine) attitude about Montero:
while I could care less about whether he is a perennial All Star or not, the thousands of posts from the blog experts proclaiming him the greatest thing since Mickey Mantle has become so tedious and tiring that I would just as soon that he fail just to shut these ‘experts’ up.
just because a guy has a quick bat and power to right field doesn’t make him a Hall of Famer, there is a ton of hard work and longevity in front of the kid. The Yankees either effed up or saw something they didn’t like about him, it’s their team, not mine-we are all just fans.
I’ll defend every Yankees player that puts out 100% but when they play for other teams it is irrelevant to me, period.
To read complaints from the very ‘experts’ about those of us who aren’t interested in Montero and resent having him become the centerpiece of a Yankees blog (like last night) on an evening when they spanked the Mets is both annoying and unfair.
lgy-
what i watch when i watch a catcher is how he receives the ball. montero has good hands which isn’t surprising when you consider his hand speed when hitting.
the kid has quick hands. this makes up for the slow lower body. yeah, it’d be great if he had quick feet too, but as is he can catch.
he’s a great target for pitchers. most pitchers prefer big targets though some small catchers have been excellent like pudge rodriguez or brad ausmus.
speaking of ausmus, he was one really good yankee catcher who got away.
“montero is the best hitting catcher in the american league with over 80 at bats in the catcher position.”
************************************************************
Montero has caught 24 games and is batting .262
Joe Mauer has caught 25 games and is batting .298
Try again!
Oh please, stop with the melodrama about people rooting against Montero.
1. People are just sick of hearing about him when he is no longer a Yankee, especially when he’s not doing any special (and a no-hitter is mostly the pitcher’s work).
2. Let’s stick to facts and stop cherry picking small samples, such as only his hitting stats when catching.
.262/.300/.416
103 OPS+
16% CS (16-3)
The hitting is not terrible, but hardly noteworthy yet. The CS% is poor.
He can catch the ball when the pitcher throws it to him. Woop di do. Montero wasn’t traded because he couldn’t perform the simple function of catching the ball, and no one said he couldn’t. No one has been “proven wrong”.
Let’s wait until there is something to talk about.
To read complaints from the very ‘experts’ about those of us who aren’t interested in Montero and resent having him become the centerpiece of a Yankees blog (like last night) on an evening when they spanked the Mets is both annoying and unfair.
****************
QFT. More posts about Montero than the Yankees’ game last night it felt. It is almost as if posters are more passionate with their bitterness over Montero leaving than discussing the Yankees. Sad state of affairs. I am out for now. Come back when people are actually talking about the Yankees. Could care less what Montero does elsewhere. He is not on my team. And he certainly does not fall into a Matsui category where I will be happy for him playing against us out of respect. We have traded prospects before, and we will do it again.
mg-
i’ll admit that beyond the tangibles that i see with montero, i see some intangibles that tell me barring injury we’re talking perennial all star.
it doesn’t bother you one bit that the same people who made an erroneous decision on montero will be deciding who to trade for at the upcoming trading deadline in a month ?
i’m looking at the big picture and not the montero trade as an isolated event.
the same people are still there waiting to strike ( out) again.
New York Yankees?@Yankees
Robinson Cano is the first left-handed hitter to ever homer twice against Johan Santana in a game.
“2. Let’s stick to facts and stop cherry picking small samples, such as only his hitting stats when catching.
.262/.300/.416
103 OPS+
16% CS (16-3)”
you want facts?
ok, here’s some facts:
RK PLAYER TEAM AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG OBP SLG OPS
1 Jesus Montero SEA 89 10 30 5 0 5 14 0 0 6 14 .337 .375 .562 .937
2 Joe Mauer MIN 96 21 34 6 0 2 17 1 1 17 6 .354 .451 .479 .930
3 Mike Napoli TEX 114 22 33 3 2 6 21 0 0 16 38 .289 .388 .509 .897
4 Jarrod Saltalamacchia BOS 140 20 39 11 0 10 25 0 0 10 39 .279 .325 .571 .896
5 Kelly Shoppach BOS 67 9 18 6 1 3 9 1 0 6 27 .269 .372 .522 .894
6 John Hester LAA 25 4 8 1 0 1 1 0 0 4 6 .320 .414 .480 .894
7 A.J. Pierzynski CHW 183 29 55 8 2 10 38 0 0 12 19 .301 .345 .530 .875
8 Jeff Mathis TOR 39 8 9 2 0 3 6 0 0 5 15 .231 .318 .513 .831
9 Gerald Laird DET 47 8 15 2 0 2 4 0 0 2 3 .319 .340 .489 .829
10 Jose Lobaton TB 23 3 7 3 0 0 1 0 1 3 3 .304 .385 .435 .819
RK PLAYER TEAM AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG OBP SLG OPS
11 Matt Wieters BAL 172 22 43 9 0 9 24 0 0 19 39 .250 .337 .459 .796
12 John Jaso SEA 42 8 11 5 0 1 7 0 0 5 4 .262 .333 .452 .786
13 Alex Avila DET 138 18 35 8 1 5 20 2 0 17 37 .254 .333 .435 .768
14 Carlos Santana CLE 135 21 34 7 0 4 23 2 1 29 31 .252 .375 .393 .768
15 Tyler Flowers CHW 35 6 8 2 0 2 2 1 0 2 14 .229 .308 .457 .765
16 Russell Martin NYY 137 15 30 8 0 6 17 1 0 22 28 .219 .352 .409 .760
jesus montero is the best hitting catcher in the american league if OPS is used as the standard for hitting excellence.
oops sorry.
facts that don’t back your argument are “cherry picking” stats.
it’s not easy to dh for young players.
it’s usually an acquired skill
it’s not surprising montero is having to learn how to hit out of the dh position.
nor is it surprising that he hits better as a catcher being warmed up at all times.
coming off the bench cold isn’t something many players can do.
“Robinson Cano is the first left-handed hitter to ever homer twice against Johan Santana in a game.”
cool stat.
If you could.pick any current catcher for the Yanks right now who you picking? I think Id take Mr. Wieters.
Montero deserves some credit for last night. Does it lead to more time at the catcher position?
Will he be listed as DH or catcher on the perpetual all-star ballot?
Randy, I don’t spend any time thinking about the expertise of the Yankees front office, I have no control over it nor do I have the $3B to buy the team.
I root for the team on the field, I have done so since 1953, enjoyed many great (and not so great moments), and won’t spend 1 second of my time worrying about things I can’t control or fix.
I respect your baseball knowledge (and am pretty sure you respect mine) and it’s possible Montero becomes something special just as it is possible he doesn’t, we both know that, nothing is a guarantee in the world of sports.
To put things into perspective, had we judged the Granderson trade 3 months into the season, we’d be calling it a terrible trade. Now, after giving it time we realize it was a great trade for the Yankees.
After the Montero trade, and losing the SP to injury for a season, those that are calling it a terrible trade may be judging it a bit premature.
I prefer to wait at least 2 seasons and look at the trade then, and evaluate it at that point in time.
On the record, I was not happy with the trade, but, I’ll still support the player that now wears the pinstripes.
As to what has been said about Montero as a C, all I remember reading was that he was not a good defensive catcher, such as controlling the running game, which is true. A 16% CS is poor by any judgement, thus allowing all too many runners to advance into scoring position via the stolen base.
based on numbers right now, the logical choice to start the ASG for the AL is AJ Pierzynski.
Randy,
MG is right that the only reason anyone pulls against Montero is the diatribe written when he has a good game or is part of a good event and using that to reargue the same points. We all know people’s opinions. I say let it play out. Life is way too tricky to know how it will turn out.
Matt Wieters will IMO, out hit Montero when the season ends, and has a 39% CS record as of now, so he’ll be by far a much better C than Montero.
So folks are like a pitbull with a steak in his mouth, no matter what, they’ll never let go of their feelings concerning the Montero trade.
Life is not about What if, or If only, its about reality, move on!
Via Ken Rosenthal, the Diamondbacks called the Yankees about the availability of Austin Romine prior to signing Miguel Montero to his big extension. Talks never went anywhere because New York wanted left-handed pitching prospect Tyler Skaggs in return. Arizona called a number of other teams —including the Blue Jays about Travis D’Arnaud —and found the prices prohibitive, so they re-upped Montero.
Romine recently resumed baseball activities after sitting out the start of the season with a back injury. Remember, D’Backs GM Kevin Towers spent 2010 with the Bombers and is surely familiar with the young backstop. Catching depth is important, so I’m glad to see the Yankees place a premium on it
http://www.riveraveblues.com
Romine for Skaggs would have been cool….
I look forward to Hughes’ starters more thany other games, primarily because I want to see if his upside has a chance to be enduring.
NO SOLER.
1. The Yanks have Granderson in CF through 2013 assuming they most likely pick up his $15M club option for next season, Gardner in LF through 2014.
2. Melky Cabrera and Nick Swisher will be free-agents after this season.
3. We have Mason Williams as a future starting OF.
4. Let’s be real: Who is Soler more likely to be for the Yanks, El Duque (hit) or Contreras (bust)? I say Contreras.
Gardner LF / Granderson CF / Cabrera RF and Jones #4 OF re-signed is the move.
The Yanks can cross the bridge called Who’s In LF Or CF For The 2014 Yankees? when they get to it. I write “LF Or CF” as it depends on where Gardner plays.
GB7 -
How can you say that about AJ Pierzynski, after all he’s only hitting .296 and tearing up the ball, and we all know, per Randy, that Montero batting .262 is the best hitting C in the AL. I guess numbers do lie.
“I respect your baseball knowledge (and am pretty sure you respect mine) and it’s possible Montero becomes something special just as it is possible he doesn’t, we both know that, nothing is a guarantee in the world of sports.”
mg-
i don’t get feelings on every player i see. probably a good way to describe what i felt about montero as a player when i first saw him is that’s it was a hunch in the sense of a psychic realization that “this kid is the real deal”.
so it really isn’t something to argue in the normal sense of arguing using reason and facts. i’m sure you have had your feelings about certain players over the years. to me that’s part of the fun of the game.
seeing players like tresh for the first time. or murcer. or munson. or mattingly or jeter.or cano. surely some of these guys struck you the first time you saw them .
montero just struck me right off as the next great yankee player.
“having him become the centerpiece of a Yankees blog (like last night) on an evening when they spanked the Mets is both annoying and unfair.”
——
very fair point.
Mets fans are in for some more disappointment if Hughes pitches like he has been. Nice to see the Yanks rotation (hopefully) rounding into shape.
Soler would be one of the precious few offensive high potential young players in the system. I hope Williams will make it, but one cannot run an organization relying upon any low A player.
Again and again I say the future is unknown. Will Williams or Soler make it big? We don’t know, but Soler would add another player with a big upside.
Although trading Romine doesn’t bother me because of his apparent fragility and what I see as a ceiling on his upside, in principle, I really hate trading position players for pitchers, especially with the makeup of their mL system.
Offensively its really not fair to compare a 22 year old rookie with 1/3 of a season under his belt to veterans with thousands of big league ABs
Cant have too many talented 20 years olds…..sign Soler.
Soler is almost a necessity.
“How can you say that about AJ Pierzynski, after all he’s only hitting .296 and tearing up the ball, and we all know, per Randy, that Montero batting .262 is the best hitting C in the AL. I guess numbers do lie.”
big al-
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/b.....order/true
so tell me what you don’t like about these stats.
something wrong with them?
they aren’t accurate?
they aren’t official stats?
try dropping the dripping sarcasm. it just makes you look like an over the hill neanderthal.
If Soler can play D, and has the ability to hit over .250, he’d be an upgrade over Swisher for sure.
The cool thing about Soler is that hes young enough to develop…..if he really is a single digit in the draft type talent then at 19 years old they really have an opportunity that they may never have again given the new rules……everything is a risk…..but its one that could pay off big time and actually save a lot of money in the long run if he pans out.
justsaying June 9th, 2012 at 8:21 am
And, in an appropriately dated article, this from Tyler Kepner on Highes in today’s NY Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06…..odayspaper
///
Thanks for this. So far, Larry Rothschild has had a positive effect on the two guys we were looking to to anchor the rotation by now: Hughes and Chamberlain.
Like I said before, LR got further with Chamberlain in five minutes than Eiland for his entire tenure here. Hughes is healthy and also getting the benefit of Rothschild’s – and Pettitte’s – guidance. LR seems tuned into his guys. Hopefully, Joba eventually is restored to the rotation. Imagine Hughes, Joba and Vato all dealing in the rotation in 2013….that’d crazy.
Hughes must be reading Tar… thought he needed to “hide the ball longer.”
.
I hate going out to Yanks-Mets games because of all the phony hype, and when I had the seasons, it was one of the few times in the season I could sell high and just watch it on TV. But I’m tempted to wait out the Stubhubbers today and see if the prices drop some more and get to see Philip Joseph pitch tonight. …you just see so much more when you’re actually there…
it felt great to get to see all 3 Tampa games live, since that was an important series for us (much more so than “inter-league” play). Although it was the one game we lost, the absolute highlight of that 3-game set, in terms of dramatic tension and skill against skill, was ARod’s 11-pitch AB against Price. What was incongruous – and downright sad – was the booing that ensued after he went down on the curve. Really, some people should just stay home. It was an heroic AB, as Price just amped it up once the bases were juiced. Dealing 97s and some curves that turned to dust…
Wouldn’t ya know, the seats that have dropped the most that are in an acceptable location are “$65 apiece
. Maybe I should grab ‘em for good luck.
“If you could.pick any current catcher for the Yanks right now who you picking? I think Id take Mr. Wieters.”
good hitting switch hitting catchers with an arm like weiters who also are good defensively in general are worth their weight in gold.
he’s another perennial all star catcher.
“The cool thing about Soler is that hes young enough to develop”
blake-
i have zero interest in soler because i don’t get any feeling the yankees have a chance to get him.
am i wrong?
is there a chance the yankees will get him ?
So randy is saying Montero is a good hitter, while he’s playing C, but, his overall numbers, including his being a DH, should not be looked at.
Perhaps the M’s are dumber than the Yankees FO, if they can’t see that Montero would produce more as a C than as a DH/C. Could it be the M’s don’t think Montero is ready to be a full time C?
Randy, you should provide your insider knowledge to the M’s FO, they might find this info worth looking at. Yes, dripping sarcasm, lol.
Forgive my ignorance, but who is “Vato?”
I’d say $65 for tickets on the day Hughes is pitching is a good sign – go for it, I’d say.
At what point do they look to extend Hughes for a few years at affordable money?
“is there a chance the yankees will get him ?”
I doubt it….we’ll see.
“Vato” Did he mean Nova?
“At what point do they look to extend Hughes for a few years at affordable money?”
We dont do extensions …….company policy.
Randy,
I would be very surprised in the Yankees got Soler. But, hope spring eternal.
Can’t believe all those wussy Metsies are calling the fan complaining that Swish celebrated his homerun in the dugout and calling for someone to get ploinked today because of it.
I don’t think I know of another team which has a fan base with such an inferiority complex.
——————————————————————–
Yet half the people on here root for them
blake June 9th, 2012 at 11:52 am
Cant have too many talented 20 years olds…..sign Soler.
———————
Just dropping in – what’s the deal on Soler now? I thought they were bidding for Thurs but now they’re taking more bids into the weekend?
If that $15 mil number is accurate (which I think would be wishful thinking) we should be all over this kid. We need to get younger in the OF, especially since Gardner is becoming more and more of a question mark going forward.
“Just dropping in – what’s the deal on Soler now? I thought they were bidding for Thurs but now they’re taking more bids into the weekend?”
Driving up the price…..agent games.
Shame, it is a bidding process akin to free agency but with a July2d deadline. I think round one was to see who is in the game. I would guess it is done by late next week.
austin mac and blake-
i think i read the tea leaves on players like soler by reading what posters like you say and the vibes i got did not create any interest into even looking at him.
it’s too bad the yankees have dropped out of being a serious bidder for these kind of players.
One thing that’s great about being at the games is you get away from some of the tribalism that lives in this place.
A former Yankee – the jewel of the system, in fact – who never should have been traded for “pitching” the Yankees actually have without Pineda, is traded away, after having spent six years in the system – catches a no-hitter for his new team, getting six different pitchers through nine innings to do it. A few people – after midnight – give him a thumbs up and express their happiness for him, and the PMS crew angrily flies into the blog and lashes out that he is mentioned, even though the ink is barely dry on his momentous day behind the plate.
The logical thought is, why can this guy catch nine innings and get a pitcher through a no-hitter, but the Yankees felt the need to fly a AAA catcher who’d never caught in the big leagues from the other coast to make sure Montero didn’t get any time behind the plate in a regular season game….
This is an apt, and obvious, and JUST criticism of the Yankees, who not only have pitching, but who a frankly LOADED with pitching.. Joba and D-Rob come back, there’s a veritable sealant from the first to ninth inning on games…. the whole trade was based on the “need” for a “No. 2″. How ridiculous that is in the cold light of day…. What a waste of a special, young bat, the kind the Yankees really, really need.
Used to be, I’d go back through older threads to get the pulse of the blog. I don’t feel I’m missing much, though, these days, so I don’t bother myself about it. Too much wading through garbage to find the few gems.
I think you have to go with Wieters.
As for Soler, interesting to see what we choose to do. Depends on how highly we rank him, whether it’s an ML contract, which sounds like it will have to be, and how much he costs. We do have some nice corner OF’s in lower levels with some pop like Ravel, Austin, Flores…
Just saw this on mlbtr: “In a MLB.com chat with fans, Yankees GM Brian Cashman said his “preference would be not to do anything” at the trade deadline. ‘You’d like to have everything here in front of you, but that’s never the case,” he added. “So right now it’s way too early to tell you what’s lacking … It’s too early for me to say what we’re looking for (at the deadline) just yet, if anything.’ ” Not that Cash would reveal anything…
Pruf, not going to the game either because not a big fan of interleague Met games and all the hype and traffic nightmares, plus my brother has the tix, but I don’t like to miss Hughes’ starts. He is on sched to pitch the weekday day game vs. Hotlanta in NY right now if Kuroda-san doesn’t miss a start. Love those weekday day games.
Did Cashman really think the D-Backs would give up Skaggs for a player who has been disabled all year with back problems? He should have asked for Upton too.
“Randy, you should provide your insider knowledge to the M’s FO, they might find this info worth looking at. Yes, dripping sarcasm, lol.”
big al-
you are not smart.
i just wish you didn’t have a vote in the next election.
I assume that Soler’s Haitian residency is a non-issue…?
Randy,
I scratch my head when the far richest team when faced with an opportunity to only use money to improve, does nothing. I have greatly tempered my expectation for Soler or anyone else without a bargain price tag.
Soler would be a neat acquisition, but the guy’s what, 19 years old?? How soon would he help the Yankees?? Williams/Santana/Heathcott (health willing) – and maybe sooner, one of the Almontes – will likely be able to help sooner than Soler.
I’m all in on him, too, but sounds like a guy who’ll have to climb the ladder for a while.
Triple, didn’t want person admit to rooting for the Mets? Most Yankee fans do not root for them. No one I know does. OK, one person I know roots for both teams out of hundreds. Probably, ditto, this blog.
Randy,
The issue is that its probably going to have to be a big league deal for Soler…..which means his money goes on the luxury taxed payroll….even if hes playing in the minors (which he likely will be for a couple of years). Thats not a problem as much now…..but if they are determined to get under 189 in 2014 then its tight enough as it is without adding 5-7 more million on the payroll for a guy not even in the bigs.
Now if they think he can be their RFer (or LFer ) by 2014 then they should absolutely sign him……cause 5-7 million for a starting corner outfielder with upside is a bargain.
If I were the Yanks……Id offer more money on a minor league deal to avoid that problem…..doubt they will…..
Is there a real deadline for the bids though, like for the Japanese market? Or is this just a deadline set up solely by the agent?
randy l. -
Thank goodness you have no say in who should or should not be allowed to vote.
It seems when you can’t back up your “smart” statements, you need to attack the blogger that calls you out, and points out that you’re nothing but a has been blowhard that likes to think he can dictate what is and is not correct. Thank goodness you have no vote on what is said on this blog. Grow up and act like a man, not some school yard kid that wants to take his ball and go home when things don’t go his way.
Nah its totally the agents doing…..the real deadline is when the rules change on July 2nd and he will certainly sign before then as after that he will get less money.
should read *one* person admit…
Lets all get along……life is good. Yanks are winning……its summer time….hal’s bank account is in good shape…..
Pruf, not going to the game either because not a big fan of interleague Met games and all the hype and traffic nightmares, plus my brother has the tix, but I don’t like to miss Hughes’ starts. He is on sched to pitch the weekday day game vs. Hotlanta in NY right now if Kuroda-san doesn’t miss a start. Love those weekday day games.
///
I may go yet – have to see what drops. The weather’s not looking that great, so while that’s a pain for travel and you may have the tarp on and off the field, it certainly makes people reluctant to shell out and antsy sellers respond in kind by wanting to salvage something as the hour approaches. Long ride, though, so I am looking at a late trigger and Saturday night going-into-the-city nightmare on the roads… will see how it goes.
Yea, love those weekday matinees… very relaxed vibe, befitting the true rhythm of the game of baseball…now, if I could just murder that jumbo screen and all that loud, incessant merch peddling….
blake – Ahh, gotcha. That makes sense. I wasn’t sure if those new international signing rules kicked in this year or at the start of next season (or the upcoming off season). Thanks for the info.
randy likes to start arguments.
…when business is slow.
blake -
I’ll go for that.
hal’s bank account is in good shape…..
mick -
Be careful, you’ll get on his bad side, or is that a 360 side, lol.
not as many day games this year for some reason (money?)
next 2 weds. vs atl and cleve could be had for a song on stubhub
Be careful, you’ll get on his bad side, or is that a 360 side, lol.
==================
not to worry, randy and I go way back…
“it’s not easy to dh for young players.
it’s usually an acquired skill
it’s not surprising montero is having to learn how to hit out of the dh position.
nor is it surprising that he hits better as a catcher being warmed up at all times.
coming off the bench cold isn’t something many players can do.”
~
Randy ~
Apparently, Kawasaki is doing his level best helping Montero to stay warm and loose…
http://tinyurl.com/72b4zs8
“We dont do extensions …….company policy.”
With the budget, I’m not sure they can take that risk until he has proven himself entirely – 200 above average innings.
If he does that this year, I imagine they might try to lock him up in the winter – the problem is, at that point, I’m not sure Hughes takes, say $24 million for 4 years, when, with another good year next year, could get CJ Wilson/Danks money. The time to propose a below market deal is when they are at least a couple of years away from FA. From Hughes’ perspective, if he performs well this year, has no reason not to try and follow that up and go to FA.
BIG AL June 9th, 2012 at 12:12 pm
“Vato” Did he mean Nova?
///
Yes, that’s just a nickname for him that I like. Been calling him “Vato” for a while.
mick -
I thought the Yankees wanted to get rid of StubHub. It’s sad to see so many empty seats at YS, and now the team is offering buy 2, get 2 free for certain games, and still the FO don’t understand the fans will not part with the huge sums it takes to go to games.
With the impending July 2nd deadline, Soler’s people want to get this deal done before the new CBA kicks in.
justsaying, thanks for the Hughes article. Good stuff; wish it had gone a little deeper.
blake, QFT about getting along. Speaking of attacking people, far too much “attacking the blogger” again in the game thread last night. Save it for the Red Sox or Mets fans or suppress it altogether.
Randy ~
Apparently, Kawasaki is doing his level best helping Montero to stay warm and loose…
http://tinyurl.com/72b4zs8
///
Thanks, Rosy. Keep sending the away-at-boarding school pics when you can.
Pruf, looks like it is going to pour out there.
JAP – Thanks, I thought I missed something along the way, being an neanderthal, lol.
al
those seats are already sold by the yankees, mostly to season tix holders who are reselling them. why should nyy’s be concerned?
attacking the *poster not blogger, should read.
mick -
The FO stated about a week ago they wanted to stop StubHub from doing business with the sale of Yankees tickets, and I’m not sure why they should care, or get involved.
There are tons of unsold tix on Ticketmaster for most games except Red Sox and Mets. You could have walked into the Rays games and gotten tickets behind home plate. Not much incentive for STH to keep their tix when Yanks charge less for the same seats on Stubhub and through ticket deals.
“those seats are already sold by the yankees, mostly to season tix holders who are reselling them. why should nyy’s be concerned?”
I thi k they are concerned that season ticket holders will become ex-season ticket holders if they can just buy tickets cheaper on stubhub.
mick -
Here is the story.
http://espn.go.com/new-york/ml.....end-season
al it’s called greed.
And the Yanks want their fans to continue paying top dollar for tickets despite their plan to lop 30 million off the payroll over the next two years…..
I thi k they are concerned that season ticket holders will become ex-season ticket holders if they can just buy tickets cheaper on stubhub.
=======================
that is what is happening.
lower your prices then…
Big Al, because fans won’t pay the Yankees exorbitant prices; instead, they get tickets for less on Stubhub. Levine’s comment that Stubhub is hurting the fans isn’t true. Yanks themselves undersell their season ticket holders, charging the latter full price for seats they sell to the general public for $5 on ticket special days, for instance. If Levine were so concerned about the STH, the Yankees would adjust tickets to market value, rather than overcharging.
Villa Nova-Ya June 9th, 2012 at 12:08 pm
Forgive my ignorance, but who is “Vato?”
I’d say $65 for tickets on the day Hughes is pitching is a good sign – go for it, I’d say.
///
That is a good price, and the seats are in main, so you get the roof over your head if it rains
.
Sorry, yea, The Vato is Nova. I know G.Love calls him El Hombre, so it seems Ivan the Terrific (courtesy DN backpage) is inspiring the poet in some of us
. As long as they call him tough to hit, it’s all good 
.
Very rewarding watching our young arms evolve in the rotation.
blake, that is already happening, STH are bailing right and left.
yankeefem – Randy Levine told a lie???
Cory Arbiso?@Breezo30
Putting on a clinic for special needs kids with @OBMikey @olroy57 @cheyer31 @TrentonThunder#specialolympicsofNJ
Retweeted by Josh Norris
should have been a semicolon
mick -
Agreed. I could be 100% wrong, but, the feeling I get from this FO is the bottom line is more important that the product on the field, and winning. It appears the orders are to keep the team competitive, but, don’t spend the extra money required to put them over the top.
BIG AL June 9th, 2012 at 12:41 pm
JAP – Thanks, I thought I missed something along the way, being an neanderthal, lol.
///
Sorry, I sometimes forget my “code” language isn’t universal
Pruf, better get the $65 ones for Hughes’ sake before they start dropping.
The skies are ominously darkening…
You want to see real rage over treatment of season ticket holders, go to NYYFans. Not only will you get the pulse of what it’s like to give your hard-earned money to the Yankees, you’ll also see that they never stop selling. They drove me just as nuts (emails, recorded phone messages) when I had the tickets, and now they’re trying to reel me back in. The reading on NYYFans is bilious and very entertaining, as well, on this subject.
YF -
Very good points. Also, because they over priced the tickets, and sales are down, they now offer buy 2 get 2 free for certain games.
It would seem the wise thing to do would be a total revamp of ticket prices before next season, or the results could mean even fewer ticket sales next year.
blake June 9th, 2012 at 12:47 pm
And the Yanks want their fans to continue paying top dollar for tickets despite their plan to lop 30 million off the payroll over the next two years…..
———————
I know you and I have been harangued for focusing so much on the FO and the budget but this is where the repercussions start to become evident. Personally I find the business side of the game fascinating and I certainly don’t begrudge those people that would rather shut that out as noise and focus on the glorious game of baseball…. but the FO stuff has a serious impact on the product on the field, and I can’t ignore it.
The Yankees are getting what they deserve from Stubhub. I hope they break their contract with them since I don’t believe that would stop Stubhub from allowing fans to resell Yankee tickets on there, it would just eliminate the Yankees making any money off of their fees. The Yanks will try to piggy back on another secondary market provider, but StubHub, for better or worse, is the biggest and most trusted in the industry. The Ticketmaster version, TicketsNow, is embarrassingly overpriced for a secondary market. Usually their tickets are marked well above face value because Ticketmaster is like the Evil Empire of ticket sales.
yankeefem – it’s those darkening skies, though, that have to potential to make my wallet lighter
. … also have to weigh whether I want to go tonight and then forego Brett Marshall tomorrow… I may do so, because I finally got to see him live recently and because I don’t want to miss Pettitte (on TV – hate missing another Pettitte live home start, since I’ve attended all but one – but the Subway Series just is something I want to put in the rearview.. you know if we lose even one game the media will go into its “The Mets are gaining on the Yankees” song and dance…
Big Al, I think they will have to reevaluate how they treat STH, not only in terms of discounting tickets for buying such a large block of tickets, but also delivering perks. I wonder too if they will create a sliding scale with premium games costing more. Yankees need to overhaul the ST system.
Pruf, nyyfans out of play season ticket threads have been invaluable, going all the way back to relocation from OYS to NYS. Talk about fans supporting and helping each other out. Those STH forums are a gold mine of information and assistance.
Later folks – Y’all have a great day!
funny thing is I have have never paid this little to see games.
you can sit anywhere you want upstairs, if you’re not too boogey.
will miss stubhub next year but hopefully another secondary market will pop up somewhere.
Have a good day, Big Al.
The Yankees are getting what they deserve from Stubhub. I hope they break their contract with them since I don’t believe that would stop Stubhub from allowing fans to resell Yankee tickets on there,
====================
Shame, good point.
Tix will still be resold on Stubhub whether Yanks want it or not as they can’t stop ppl from dealing with them.
STH will still use them to dump their tix so they can get postseason tix.
Thank god for these corps that buy for business reasons so we peons can glom off them at 50-75% off the price.
I just did that for a pair vs Cleve.
Pruf, nyyfans out of play season ticket threads have been invaluable, going all the way back to relocation from OYS to NYS. Talk about fans supporting and helping each other out. Those STH forums are a gold mine of information and assistance.
///
I don’t read it religiously, but I do check in there to see the latest. It’s nice to be able to read commenters who understand the STH experience, good, bad and indifferent. I signed up for that blog, but rarely comment. In ‘out of play’, I never feel the need to comment, since my thoughts are represented by what others have already said. Good read.
That’s right, mick. They can break whatever contract they want with Stubhub but they were able to to sell their tickets before the contract with MLB existed and they’ll be able to after. Stubhub is fueled by the seller.
Yankeefem – Dealin’ on the mound tonight. He’s actually looked really, really good in parts of his last two starts. I really think that nail thing got him way off track. His stuff has been looking great, just needs to throw strikes. His velo has been consistently high, sitting and topping.
Hey, Shame – good luck today in staying alive in the SCF (today, right?).
If Yanks eliminate the barcodes or give ST holders cards they have to scan at the Stadium to get in, Yanks could well affect the resale market, going forward.
Good one, all.
we should have a LoHud get together at the Stadium.
no response.
that says it all…
Thanks JAP. I’m going to the game later and hope we can turn this thing into a series. Games 1 & 2 were so, so tight. I have faith we can push this to a game 6.
yankeefeminista June 9th, 2012 at 1:14 pm
If Yanks eliminate the barcodes or give ST holders cards they have to scan at the Stadium to get in, Yanks could well affect the resale market, going forward.
—————
I think you’d have a hell of a time getting people to opt-in to something like that. If they made it worth it with other perks, that’s a different story of course….
mick – Under the Paul O’Neill banner. I’m there.
mick, lol and meet under the Paul O’Neill banner? Where would we sit? With the Creatures and contribute to roll call?
Pruf, yes, I will be watching the SWB game, and looking for a “build on it” start.
Shame, good luck today!
Just because this FO doesn’t sign every big name FA or phenom IFA, doesn’t mean they’re not committed to winning or don’t care about the product on the field.
If the Yankees care more about the bottom line than the product on the field, then what do the other 29 teams care about?
IMO, Big Al, this team does care. They made some decisions in the past that limit what they can do in the future. They need to squeeze the most out of their current roster (which is a good roster). They need to work under new parameters very soon. That means they need to budget moneys to work in the new reality that will hit them in 2014.
Pruf, I have the Source shooting video of Feliz, assuming they don’t get rained out tonight.
GB, good job re: Special Olympics. Trenton does a lot of great charity work. My favorite one is the yearly auction to assist the Trenton Domestic Violence project. That’s where I got my lucky Phil Hughes autographed cap from. All for a very worthy cause. Go Trenton! Go Hughes!
Look on the bright side; going forward, let’s hope the limited budget means more of the kids actually get a shot at contributing.
YF,
Which is the way it should be!
,If the Yankees care more about the bottom line than the product on the field, then what do the other 29 teams care about?”
The Yankees arent just another team……..
I have no problem with the Yanks wanting to get face value for their tickets and to keep prices where they want them……its supply and demand…..but Yankee fans expect a certain quality and commitment to that quality …..its just like anything else consumers buy….they buy something if they feel the product is worth the price….
People wont pay for an Applebees steak at a Ruth’s Chris price…..people wont pay Yankee prices for a KC Royals commitment to winning …..not saying they dont want to win…just saying they cant expect fans to pay the highest prices unless they are goin to keep there product at the highest level as well……
Info on Tyler Austin’s mom. Still has 9 days to get ready for SALLY League ASG and home run hitting contest.
Kim austin?@austinmom03
@trevwolff yes,, just badly bruised, out 4-7 days. Thanks for checking!
His raw numbers (4-4, 4.96 ERA, 1.35 WHIP) seem slightly worse than what would be expected. All metrics point to him pitching into some bad luck, especially when you factor in a career-worst home-run rate.
—
Hughes gave up a lot of homers because he threw a lot of pitches up and over the plate, not because of bad luck. This is where watching the games matters. People are taking this “luck” thing too far.
Blake,
Do you really think the Yankees will resort to a KC Royals type of commitment?
“Do you really think the Yankees will resort to a KC Royals type of commitment?”
No….just making an analogy ….I think the Royals want to win as well….they just have their margins and cant go beyond them…..will the Yanks become that on a bigger scale?
Just because this FO doesn’t sign every big name FA or phenom IFA, doesn’t mean they’re not committed to winning or don’t care about the product on the field.
Xxxxx
The FO doesn’t have to sign every big-name IFA to compete. But it also has to recognize that opportunities to acquire prime talent are rapidly narrowing.
I have no doubt they can get creative and offer an appealing (read high bid) minor-league contract so it does not impact the 2014 payroll goal. The FO knows the offense is struggling, and there will be few to none opportunities to plug that talent gap on the major league roster between now and 2014. Why not take a chance on a guy like Soler? At worst, you have a valuable trade chip in a couple of years because young, talented outfielders are becoming a rarer commodity in MLB than starting pitchers who cal fill the 1-3 positions in the rotation.
Frankly, with the hard slotting system in the draft, the Yankees are really going to need to get lucky to keep pace with other teams that have higher picks and are allowed to spend more.
Yanks need to spend while they can. Hal does not need another Porsche.
Sorry, close italics tag fail on my part.
So you guys are using the spend it all before you die (i.e IFA, draft, CBA rule changes). The problem is they won’t die. They’ll need to field a team if 25 players.
I understand where you guys are coming from. You’re used to a certain level of spending. But we knew it couldn’t last forever. That was just insane.
blake says:
June 9, 2012 at 2:02 pm
“Do you really think the Yankees will resort to a KC Royals type of commitment?”
No….just making an analogy ….I think the Royals want to win as well….they just have their margins and cant go beyond them…..will the Yanks become that on a bigger scale?
Xxxxxx
Blake, Hal, Levine, Cashman & Co. have become so enamored with running the Yankees like a business that it seems they have forgot that baseball is entertainment.
They need to make a splash now and then to keep the fan base excited. The Boss, for all his impetuousness, understood that better than anyone.
No doubt that Hal and the Yanks have become a more efficient, smarter organization. But don’t forget that creating a winning AND entertaining team should be a top goal, too.
Thanks Fem!
Sorry Blake — didn’t mean to group you with those front office spendthrifts. Bad sentence structure on my part.
For those who keep tabs on the Mets a lot closer than I do, What’s the story on the Gee guy? Is he any good or what?
I think people are confused about the $189 limit…. the Yankees do not, under any circumstances, have to get under that number. They want to do so for revenue purposes alone. They are perfectly at liberty to do so just as we are perfectly at liberty to complain about it.
The Yankees, if they aren’t trying to win a WS every season, might as well be the Mets in my book. The thing that makes us great are the ridiculous expectations. Tempering them sorta cuts our balls off, IMO.
Team extended CC without batting an eye and now they aren’t committed to winning.
I love how speculation of future events becomes fact around here.
“I understand where you guys are coming from. You’re used to a certain level of spending. But we knew it couldn’t last forever. That was just insane.”
But they make more money today than they ever have in the past… why would it be insane to continue spending as they have over the last decade (when they were still turning quite a profit, mind you)?
“They need to make a splash now and then to keep the fan base excited. The Boss, for all his impetuousness, understood that better than anyone.”
Unfortunately they don’t always win out when attempting to make a splash. Case in point Cliff Lee.
raymagnetic June 9th, 2012 at 2:21 pm
Team extended CC without batting an eye and now they aren’t committed to winning.
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Simplifying the argument. You believe the $189 cap is a myth, then? I’d gladly be on board with that!
What’s wrong with getting it under for two years to get the tax rate down? Nothing. Because then they won’t have to take luxury taxes into consideration when they’re looking at mega contracts. It will bring more flexibility beyond 2016. Of course so will the expiration of arod’s current contract.
Have they stopped spending? Nope. You guys are speculating and have led yourselves to believe that your speculations are stone cold facts.
“Simplifying the argument. You believe the $189 cap is a myth, then? I’d gladly be on board with that!”
I believe what I see. The Yankees can say anything. Cashman outright said they couldn’t afford Tex and lo and behold he’s a Yankee.
Therefore I’ll choose to reserve judgement until I actually see them stop spending.
If the Yanks did not extend CC, they could have very well beed a .500 team with this hit or miss offense. That would have sent ticket sales and ratings plummeting.
CC was already signed and on the books. His extension does not impact the 2014 payroll goal. It is the same annual average value. It just extends his contract a few years.
My point is they need to maximize every opportunity to replenish the young position-player pipeline. Soler seems like such an opportunity.
“Team extended CC without batting an eye and now they aren’t committed to winning.”
They really had no choice……he would have opted out and left if they didnt step up and they would have been in trouble both on the field and with the fans.
Nobody said they arent committed to winning….every team wans to win….but are they as committed as they used to be? Is it their top priority? Im not sure….I hope it is still but we will find out in the coming years.
Hello everyone,
Greetings from Paris! I haven’t been able to follow the games or the blog as I would like to do. First I have to say that the team is winning, so we are on the happy side on that one. I can’t comment on the games or the players because I haven’t been watching or have been watching on very limited basis.
I do think it was an incredible feat for the kid to catch a no no. Especially if it took 6 different pitchers to accomplish it. I think there was nothing wrong in commenting about it. I do think that people should take it easy with the attacks on those that love to follow the kid. I don’t see this kind of animosity against other subjects. Think about it.
Being in Bordeaux made me realize an analogy with baseball. We had a Chateau Margaux and we traded it for a couple of Beaujolais
M,
Our team has to play according to the new rules, that among other things will limit the amount of money injected in to the final product. Hopefully as YF suggest it will mean that the young kids will get their shot. But as of right now the moves they have made to keep the organization competitive has been suspect to put it mildly.
Hal has stated the $189 Mill is a goal he has set. A detour is always possible, but for now, $189 is the intended destination.
“What’s wrong with getting it under for two years to get the tax rate down? Nothing.”
Nothing but youre assuming thats the plan…..the plan may be to get payroll under 189 and keep it there…
m June 9th, 2012 at 2:24 pm
What’s wrong with getting it under for two years to get the tax rate down? Nothing.
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What’s wrong with waiting until 2015 or 2016 to get under instead?
Do you have proof that they aren’t as committed to winning?
Or do you have talking points that you are basing your facts on?
And of course they had a choice when it came to CC. They could have let him opt out and released themselves of his salary.
Your arguments are pure speculation at this point.
Hi Luis…..hope youre eating well over there.
raymagnetic June 9th, 2012 at 2:24 pm
Have they stopped spending? Nope. You guys are speculating and have led yourselves to believe that your speculations are stone cold facts.
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No one is claiming anything is fact on this side of the argument.
“Your arguments are pure speculation at this point.”
So are yours…..I hope Im wrong…..
blake June 9th, 2012 at 2:28 pm
“Team extended CC without batting an eye and now they aren’t committed to winning.”
They really had no choice……he would have opted out and left if they didnt step up and they would have been in trouble both on the field and with the fans.
Nobody said they arent committed to winning….every team wans to win….but are they as committed as they used to be? Is it their top priority? Im not sure….I hope it is still but we will find out in the coming years.
***********
C.C. received more money and extra years. Seem committed as always. Just maybe they less unwilling to leap into longterm contracts for suspect type FAs unless they know it is a no doubt no brainer like C.C. (Compare Cliff Lee w/ lack of interest in Wilson, Buehrle and Darvish): all would have locked in NOT only years but rotation spots – with little flexibility, who knows maybe you are in a bad situation with Wilson or Darvish in the Bronx in year three like we were with A.J., A.J.’s contract blocked young talent or other alternatives from taking his turn.
It actually shows they might be getting smarter, not paying premium buck and years for starters that are not overwhelmingly no.1 or no. 2. It is what got them in trouble with A.J. and Carl Pavano. To me, it seems, just like w/ the amateur draft, they are putting a value on a guy or FA, and if that value is not there (unless it is as you admit a have to have like C.C.), they pass – whereas in the past, they would have settled and overspent in dollars and years on an A.J. or Pavano.
blake June 9th, 2012 at 2:33 pm
“Your arguments are pure speculation at this point.”
So are yours…..I hope Im wrong…..
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Me too, blake. I’d love to believe we’ve wasted our energy worried about a $189 cap that never comes.
what’s wrong with deferring? Nothing. But they’re likely okay with spending 40 cents on the dollar, but not 75 cents.
If I had a chance, I’d do it. It’s the fiscally responsible thing to do. I doubt they turn into the Marlins or Royals.
They’ll spend because they can and want to. Maybe not as soon or as much as some fans want them to.
Anyone know if Hal actually attends games at Yankee Stadium? I getta, “Let them eat cake” feeling whenever he has something to say. Never got that feeling with George.
These questions have many layers…
The first is the question of spending. Followed closely by the questions of competency. We all know the Boss wasn’t the most competent owner. But he made up for it by…. spending.
Now we need to rely on this group to roll back spending but also exhibit a higher level of competency in order to remain competitive. Some on here believe the competency is a given. Some don’t.
I think the second part of the questions surrounding the spending are valid.
They’ll spend because they can and want to.
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Or because they have to in order to keep butts in the seats. You can really spin this a lot of ways. The Yankees don’t spend money because they like how it feels. The spend money to make more money.
George spoke constantly of winning championships. Never heard him speak about being “fiscally responsible” in regard to the Yankee team.
They’ve been given an opportunity now to make money by spending less….
Sure if I’m a business owner that’s exactly what I would do. I don’t hold it against Hal or the other FO members at all. But I don’t understand other fans telling me I should be, like, happy about it…? Or maybe not happy but not miffed about it? I don’t really get it.
Blake, Hal, Levine, Cashman & Co. have become so enamored with running the Yankees like a business that it seems they have forgot that baseball is entertainment.
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It may be entertainment for the fans, but, if it wasn’t run like a resposible business, you wouldn’t have any entertainment. That’s what you don’t understand. George S. was spending money, but, without the financial roadblocks that have been thrown up in front of the team, now.
The CC extension was likely a business decision as much as it was a baseball decision. Does anybody really think this year’s team would compete for the AL East championship without CC. And if they were ou of contention, the amount of revenue lost from lower ticket sales and ratings would surpass the amount of money they pay CC this year.
It was a necessary baseball decision as well as business decision. So, in that sense, they had no real choice.
m -
That’s the way I’ve been looking at it. Short term diet for long term health.
George S. was spending money, but, without the financial roadblocks that have been thrown up in front of the team, now.
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The road blocks aren’t set in stone though, GB. Do you think George would have let a guy like Selig stand in the way of his spending? Or do you think he would have made sure Selig knew he could put all the road blocks in front of him that he wanted, he would still outspend the competition ten fold?
It’s impossible to know.. and I think if GS was still here we’d still be getting to $189 at some point.. but I don’t think it’d be a given that 2014 was the year it had to be done by.
Gotta love how fans think they have the right to tell others how to spend money. I doubt you’d allow others to tell you how to spend your paycheck.i
“It seems when you can’t back up your “smart” statements, you need to attack the blogger that calls you out, and points out that you’re nothing but a has been blowhard that likes to think he can dictate what is and is not correct. ”
big al-
yeah, when someone on this blog wants to know something about pitching you’re their go to guy.
hahahhahahahhahahahha
y’all have a nice day.
m June 9th, 2012 at 2:24 pm
What’s wrong with getting it under for two years to get the tax rate down? Nothing. Because then they won’t have to take luxury taxes into consideration when they’re looking at mega contracts. It will bring more flexibility beyond 2016. Of course so will the expiration of arod’s current contract.
—
As soon as they start going over the cap again, they start getting the luxury tax, and it rises every year. So I wouldn’t expect them to do more than stick their foot over the cap every other year or so, otherwise they go right back where they are now. I don’t know why so many people on this blog think this austerity is going to be just a one time thing.
I think meeting the 2014 payroll goal is a smart business decision and baseball decision. I am not advocating they blow a bunch of money on a mediocre FA.
I just think they should take every opportunity to acquire young, talented position players such as Solar. That, IMO, constitutes a “splash.”
Look, the team could have signed Cespedes as well. He would have been a power-hitting outfielder who does not make so much in AAV. He could have been a fourth outfielder this year (or put him in the minors for a year) and promote him in 2013 to replace Swisher — for less money.
Send an e-mail to Cashman and tell him what players to sign or trade or not trade, because you know more than he does. While you’re at it, fire off one to Hal steinbrenner that you’re tired of him not spending enough money, because a $220 mil payroll makes him look cheap in your eyes. Wonder what they’d fire back at you…after they stop laughing?
GreenBeret7 June 9th, 2012 at 2:50 pm
Gotta love how fans think they have the right to tell others how to spend money.
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The fans do, essentially. Don’t buy tickets, don’t buy merchandise, don’t buy mlb.tv, don’t watch on tv (support of commercials). Then you’ve told them, and they will listen if enough do it and their profits drop.
Gotta love how fans think they have the right to tell others how to spend money. I doubt you’d allow others to tell you how to spend your paycheck
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Should share holders be able to voice their opinion on how a corporation spends its money?
““Your arguments are pure speculation at this point.”
So are yours…..I hope Im wrong…..”
No they aren’t. My argument is that at this point they’re still spending. I have no clue about what they’re going to do in the future.
You all certainly have no clue.
i think the variable on whether the yankees are being to cheap is how strong the league is going to be once the new CBA kicks in.
if some teams get really strong because they don’t have any mega contracts hanging around their necks, then the yankees have a problem.
it’s possible that other teams will have limits on how far they will go and the yankees will still be better. teams like tampa and texas.
my guess is the yankees are being brought back to the pack, though time will tell. i have assumed the yankees as we know them are done for 3-5 years, but the variable really is what other teams will
do themselves as far as signing players.
it is possible no one will be that good and the yankees will stay at the top .
The Yankees also state that their goal is to win the WS every year.
How’s that one working out for them
jacksquat June 9th, 2012 at 2:52 pm
m June 9th, 2012 at 2:24 pm
What’s wrong with getting it under for two years to get the tax rate down? Nothing. Because then they won’t have to take luxury taxes into consideration when they’re looking at mega contracts. It will bring more flexibility beyond 2016. Of course so will the expiration of arod’s current contract.
—
As soon as they start going over the cap again, they start getting the luxury tax, and it rises every year. So I wouldn’t expect them to do more than stick their foot over the cap every other year or so, otherwise they go right back where they are now. I don’t know why so many people on this blog think this austerity is going to be just a one time thing.
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Exactly if it they can actually meet the goal why on Earth would it go back up. Why do ppl think Hal is always mentioning the farm whenever the budget is brought up
GreenBeret7 June 9th, 2012 at 2:50 pm
Gotta love how fans think they have the right to tell others how to spend money. I doubt you’d allow others to tell you how to spend your paycheck.i
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But isn’t it just as ridiculous for other fans to tell fellow fans they should be happy about it?
I’ve stated several times Hal is at liberty to spend his money however he wants… I should be at liberty, as a fan and a biased party by nature, to not be doing a dance because of it.
MLB seems to like to bring the Yankees “back to the pack” once every generation or so, no? And they’ve come back strong.
It’s possible the Yankees are looking at other ways to get that edge (it’s also possible they’re not), but if they are, they’re certainly not gonna broadcast their strategy.
“The fans do, essentially. Don’t buy tickets, don’t buy merchandise, don’t buy mlb.tv, don’t watch on tv (support of commercials). Then you’ve told them, and they will listen if enough do it and their profits drop.”
my understanding is that mlb.tv money is divided equally among the teams.
when i sign up for a mlb.tv subscription , is the above is correct, the yankees are getting 1/30th of that.
the yankees right now make nothing off me except for that.
that’s actually a problem for them. they should have fought to get paid when i watch them on mlb.tv.
out of market yankee viewers must be a huge number. and they divide it with all the other teams.
not smart.
The Yankee’s hierarchy have publicly commented on two major issues recently. Hal has said it’s a requirement for him to get the payroll under 189M and Levine has crusaded against StubHub (the easiest and most affordable place for fans to get tickets)
You really think it’s wrong for fans to voice their displeasure?
I’m not saying i totally love the idea or people who don’t are wrong.
I’m just saying I understand what they’re doing it and why they’re doing it.
One person’s logic is someone else’s suspicions I guess.
It’s a noble, yet unattainable goal.
But what would you have them say?
You have to reach high in order to even get close.
raymagnetic June 9th, 2012 at 2:58 pm
““Your arguments are pure speculation at this point.”
So are yours…..I hope Im wrong…..”
No they aren’t. My argument is that at this point they’re still spending. I have no clue about what they’re going to do in the future.
You all certainly have no clue.
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I hope you’re right, ray.
And I hope the new CBA doesn’t create the same parity I see in every other sport… though a bunch of teams close to the .500 mark tells me that’s the direction we’re heading in.
Should share holders be able to voice their opinion on how a corporation spends its money?
Xxxxxx
When a shareholder does not like the direction of management, they “sell.”‘ Or in a baseball sense, they stop tuning in or showing up the stadium. So fans have every right to their opinions.
Management should not make decisions based on scattered complaints among fans. But when enough fans become disenchanted (the Yanks aren’t there now), that will affect the amount of money the team takes in. That will get Hal’s attention.
So hold your collective breaths, stomp your feet and refuse to go to the games, refuse to go to the concession stands YES network and stop buying anything Yankee. That’s your right. Your right does not include telling them how to spend that money. They provide a service, a product that’s as good or better than you’ll get elsewhere.
my guess is the yankees are being brought back to the pack, though time will tell.
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They’ll be brought back to the pack in spending… not in earnings where they’ll always outstrip the competition.
GreenBeret7 June 9th, 2012 at 3:08 pm
So hold your collective breaths, stomp your feet and refuse to go to the games, refuse to go to the concession stands YES network and stop buying anything Yankee. That’s your right. Your right does not include telling them how to spend that money. They provide a service, a product that’s as good or better than you’ll get elsewhere.
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You’re right, and I have no power to tell them how to spend their money so I guess I’ll just stick to bothering the hell out of the posters on here instead
randy l.
So when we want to know about anything related to baseball we should take your input as golden, because afterall you are a has been, wanna be pro ball player that could not make the grade, and settled on a low salary BP catcher’s job, one a HS catcher could do well.
Having played the game, even at the MiL level does not make you any more qualified to give opinions than others here, you just think it does.
I find it interesting you always wait for a period of time after I leave to respond, again like an angry little kid, rather than a mature man. Grow up randy, your trivial remarks exemplify your immaturity.
-Ron Hassey
-Jeff Torborg
-Gus Triandos
-Darrell Porter
Each of these catchers caught no hitters in BOTH leagues, how come none of them are enshrined in Cooperstown?
Jason Varitek caught 4 of them, I guess he’s a lock for Cooperstown as well
And let’s not forget Matt Nokes, a Yankee great that caught Jim Abbott’s no-no
And Sal Butera, polish up your acceptance speech, you should be eligible in a few years also.
m June 9th, 2012 at 3:05 pm
I’m not saying i totally love the idea or people who don’t are wrong.
I’m just saying I understand what they’re doing it and why they’re doing it.
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I don’t think you’ll find many people on here unreasonable enough not to understand why they’re doing it. It’s a smart business move and from a business perspective the right move.
Why, as a fan, I should care about that I’m just not sure…
The ‘go-along-to-get-along’ attitude this subject spurs strikes me as boring.
Landon Powell, come on down…
you too, Kelly Shoppach
and Geovany Soto
household names, each of them, just because they happened to be behind the plate when a no hitter was thrown.
give me a break…
every outing, yu darvish looks a little more like dice k matsuzaka….
Randy,
I believe you are correct that MLB.TV revenue is split among teams. I also believe that merchandise licensed by MLB sold to the general public — at malls and retail stores, etc. — is split among teams and MLB. So if you buy a Jeter jersey at Champs Sporting Goods, that money does not go to the Yanks. The team keeps revenue from merchandise sold at the Stadium.
So ballpark concessions, cable deals (Yes Network in the Yanks case) and ticket salesmis where they get the revenue.
Should they allow Les Moss into the HOF without a ticket? after all, he caught Bobo Holloman’s ’53 no-hitter, the winner of 3 ML games, or Jeff Torbog, who caught Koufax’ and Ryan’s no hitters and 2 others.
Villa Nova-Ya June 9th, 2012 at 3:05 pm
It’s a noble, yet unattainable goal.
///
Noble?
Do you mean, maybe, savvy business?
Noble is “Hope Week.” I don’t see how their fiscal plan qualifies as noble, unless they’re turning over the money they save on luxury tax to some socially redeeming cause.
Target field is fast becoming the Homer Domeless.
You have no right to complain about how they spend their money? Who made up that rule?
What do you think you’re doing when you stop going to games? You are acting to show your displeasure with the organization.
Voicing your opinion is just another way of doing this.
we HAD to get yu …he’s the second coming of dice k
we HAD to sign johnny damon instead of ibanez…damon hitting .188
we HAD to sign cespedes… now he can’t stay on the field
we are so blessed to have such experts here…
Selling stock is not the only way to influence a corporation just like refusing to attend games.
Those are on the extreme end of the scale and the Yankees haven’t done anything to drive most fans to that type of action.
The Yanks are certainly competitive now and they have the best brand in baseball. But these things ebb and flow. Take the Mets in the 1980s. Their popularity (nationwide) eclipsed the Yanks in the mid-80s.
The Nationals will likely pick up a lot of popularity now with Harper and Strausberg. If you are a 13-year-old kid now with no particular allegiance, which team is more exciting? They likely will not have staying power, but for now, The Nats are going to grow their audience.
Shame enjoy the game tonight. Hope you see a Devils win!
J Alfred –
The Noble Goal I was referring to was the goal to win the world series, not the goal to get the budget down.
“Should they allow Les Moss into the HOF without a ticket? after all, he caught Bobo Holloman’s ’53 no-hitter, the winner of 3 ML games, or Jeff Torbog, who caught Koufax’ and Ryan’s no hitters and 2 others.”
was lee moss a catcher?
was jeff torborg a catcher?
damn, you sure seem to be trying to point out montero is a catcher like these guys are. i thought the yankees didn’t think he was one.
just curious,why does it bother you so much that the yankees screwed up in their evaluation of montero ?
you didn’t make the evaluation.
you don’t strike me as someone who tows the party line.
you don’t strike me as someone who tows the party line.
===================================
those that disagree with you are now following the party line?
ever the iconoclast.
maybe your standards for a catcher are just too low?
“I find it interesting you always wait for a period of time after I leave to respond, again like an angry little kid, rather than a mature man. Grow up randy, your trivial remarks exemplify your immaturity.”
big al-
you’re hilarious .
gee sorry for having a busy life. you should worry about someone when they do get right back to you always.
i’d tell them to get a life.
jacksquat June 9th, 2012 at 1:55 pm
His raw numbers (4-4, 4.96 ERA, 1.35 WHIP) seem slightly worse than what would be expected. All metrics point to him pitching into some bad luck, especially when you factor in a career-worst home-run rate.
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Hughes gave up a lot of homers because he threw a lot of pitches up and over the plate, not because of bad luck. This is where watching the games matters. People are taking this “luck” thing too far.
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They didn’t say the home runs were bad luck. They said he was pitching to bad luck. And there was at least 1 hr that was bad luck. The first game against the Angels in YS.