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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Whatever the numbers say, Granderson says he’s still not a home run hitter

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jun 14, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Curtis Granderson is on pace for nearly 50 home runs this season. He has 19 of them already, which is the same number he hit in his first full season in the big leagues. So how can he still say he’s not a home run hitter?

“Math is just crazy like that,” Granderson said. “It just ends up being that way. It just ends up happening from time to time. I get lucky. Sometimes they happen to get out of the ballpark.”

Yes they do, like last night’s game-winner that just happened to get out right when the Yankees so desperately needed some offense. Granderson still strikes out a lot, and his batting average isn’t going to blow you away, but his ugly left-right splits are a thing of the past and he’s become a truly dynimic offensive player.

Even if he can’t say exactly what kind of hitter he is.

“Still in progress,” Granderson said. “I want to get to the point where I can go out there and consistently understand what my plan and approach is. I’m still playing and battling with that. I’ve got to understand how they’re going to pitch me. The ability to drive the ball into the gaps. The ability to get base hits. I can still bunt from time to time, hopefully draw a walk from time to time. And I have the ability to leave the ballpark. But definitely not going to be too one-sided. That’s what I hope to end up being.”

Associated Press photo

 
 

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114 Responses to “Whatever the numbers say, Granderson says he’s still not a home run hitter”

  1. mick June 14th, 2012 at 11:46 am

    He’s a doubles hitter gone wrong.

  2. BoJo June 14th, 2012 at 11:46 am

    Those are the longest singles I’ve ever seen

  3. mick June 14th, 2012 at 11:48 am

    at least he’s in scoring position when he hits them

  4. J. Alfred Prufrock June 14th, 2012 at 11:51 am

    BoJo June 14th, 2012 at 11:37 am
    “The bullpen talk on him that you hear is, to me, fairly ridiculous.”
    ————
    I don’t mind introducing a young pitcher to the majors via the bullpen, as with Joba, Phelps, and others….just let them grow into starting and don’t hold them back from it.
    ///

    That’s not what I’m referring to. The general response to Betances’ control issues are hands tossed up in the air, followed by a dismissive “get thee to the bullpen.” Mostly from people who just like to quote his unseemly BB rates.

    I should add, the way he’s missing the strike zone lately, he would make for a short relief disaster. More patience is in order for Betances. Makes no sense to waste another great arm (see Joba Chamberlain) in the bullpen.

  5. NYYROC June 14th, 2012 at 11:51 am

    IIRC, on one of the NYY broadcasts earlier this year..they said Grandy, since the beginning of the 2011 season, has hit more HRs than anyone in MLB.

  6. ac1 June 14th, 2012 at 11:53 am

    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/b.....ld-be-zero
    _____

    UHHHHHHHHH…

    Mets are appealing a call made in a 1 hitter?

    This is the height of hypocracy after Santana’s ‘no -hitter (that should have been a 1 hitter)….

  7. austinmac June 14th, 2012 at 11:54 am

    I have never figured why the bullpen is good for a guy with control problems. It is good for a guy with a limited arsenal. A reliever can’t walk people. Betances, it seems to me, either succeeds in the rotation or doesn’t succeed at all.

  8. blake June 14th, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    “I have never figured why the bullpen is good for a guy with control problems. ”

    Its not for everyone…..but some guys it helps….because their stuff plays up…..they dknt have to worry about as many pitches or trying to pace for 100 pitches……and some guys can repeat their delivery for short spurts but not a whole game.

  9. blake June 14th, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    Also…..if you have a reliever come in and walk peopke you can put another one in…..if you have a starter walk the world in the 3rd inning youre screwed for the day.

  10. J. Alfred Prufrock June 14th, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    austinmac June 14th, 2012 at 11:50 am
    JAP,

    I realize they have shortened his stride, but I wonder if that is more of the problem than the solution. He does have the best stuff in the system, but he he not getting out of trouble as he walks his way into trouble and out of games. It seems that once he loses it now in a game, he has lost it for the day. He has had a number of games that start well and then he walks four in an inning.

    They have a year to get something out of him or lose him.
    ///

    I think he’s done both: lost it and then can’t get back on track, other starts where he is more customary in having an off first inning and then settles down for the next 3-4.

    Here’s the point with him: there is nothing to do except continue his pitching education out of the rotation. He’s not 5-11, he’s 6-8 and that’s not going to change. As I said, he has been pitching with a cracked nail: before that, he had that great 8 IP, 7 K, 2BB performance.

    He had an outing where he was throwing predominant changeups – some were absolutely crazy, including a few Felix-like ones – and some others went from effective to getting belted.

    You asked me what I think: I think taking his temperature in every start is self defeating, unless you actually watch those starts (I have no idea whether you do or don’t watch his starts; just saying generally “you”). He’s just got a a more arching learning curve because of the blessing and curse of his size.

  11. GreenBeret7 June 14th, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    Oh, my. Let’s sling some snot over a sob story by the idiot Heyman. He’s crying about how poorly the waif, Francisco Cervelli is being treated by the Yankees and how he’s forced to live in his car. My guess is that he’s not the only one, since that team as no home of it’s own. Cervelli has drawn a ML check for 3 years and can’t afford a storage place for his belongings? What are the rest of the players doing with theirs? All it comes down to is that slob, Heyman trying to stir up a story instead of digging for a legitimate story. He’s hitting under .260 with no hint of power, throwing out 21% of the runners, 3 errors and 9 passed balls. Yeah, he had only 5 MLB passed balls, but 20 errors.

  12. blake June 14th, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    Hey JAP….hope youre well. Ive watched Betances pitch probably 10 times now and just dont like his delivery…..its inconsistent and he doesnt appear athletic enough to overcome his height IMO….I think they should give him awhile longer and see if he can find it but if hes not getting there by August then they should try him as a reliever….hes on the 40 man and they cant wait forever despite his theoretical ceiling……..Im pulling for him either way

  13. J. Alfred Prufrock June 14th, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    austinmac June 14th, 2012 at 11:54 am
    I have never figured why the bullpen is good for a guy with control problems. It is good for a guy with a limited arsenal. A reliever can’t walk people. Betances, it seems to me, either succeeds in the rotation or doesn’t succeed at all.
    ///

    I happen to agree. So there’s nothing to do but give him this year and next to develop further. He’s pitching tonight, by the way.

  14. J. Alfred Prufrock June 14th, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    blake, I don’t see him as a reliever. He’ll either stick and progress or they’ll trade him to someone who looks at the upside and wants to take a crack at helping him get to the next level, IMO.

    Either way, I see him starting for someone. Hope it’s the Yankees.

  15. blake June 14th, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    JAP,

    Fair enough…he has the stuff….but he has to be able to repeat and Im not sure hes athletic enough given his size to do it for 7 innings…
    .but we’ll see.

  16. pat June 14th, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    Joe Torre named manager of USA WBC Team.

  17. Triple Short of a Cycle June 14th, 2012 at 12:20 pm

    Joe Torre named manager of USA WBC Team.

    ———————————————-

    I feel bad for those relievers

  18. yankeefeminista June 14th, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    I think the new stride is definitely (at least for the time being) making Betances’ delivery less repeatable. He was able to repeat much better in AA. Putting a 3 plus-pitch pitcher in the pen makes no sense unless/until he fails as a starter. Betances hasn’t failed to this point; he is still a work in progress.

  19. J. Alfred Prufrock June 14th, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    blake,

    I’m waiting to see where he lands after getting through this nail thing, as it has exacerbated his mechanical problems and basically taken away the curve ball. He said he couldn’t feel his grip on his breaking ball. The shorter stride also bears watching; I hope that proves to be a strength in the long run, but I’m not so sure. I’ll be watching tonight.

  20. J. Alfred Prufrock June 14th, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    yankeefem, my money remains on him figuring it out enough, at worst, to be a nasty starter who maybe throws too many pitches ;)

    Off to lunch, but before I go, deep knee bending bow to Sensei Hiroki.

  21. RadioKev June 14th, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    Are there cases were a starter’s control gets better after moving to the pen? Haven’t heard that one.

    The real problem with Betances is that we’ve missed the boat on a big trade. Teams might be interested but you can’t sell him as an A+ prospect, he’s a project.

    I’m skeptical that he’ll suddenly find his control and start repeating his mechanics. I think that’ll take a coach to help him, and I’m not sure his coach is in our system..

  22. blake June 14th, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    “. Putting a 3 plus-pitch pitcher in the pen makes no sense unless/until he fails as a starter. Betances hasn’t failed to this point; he is still a work in progress.”

    I agree…but when do you make that call? I dont think its now either but what if hes not progressed by August? By this time next year etc…..? This is his 7th year in pro ball I believe…..cant be a project forever

  23. blake June 14th, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    “Are there cases were a starter’s control gets better after moving to the pen? Haven’t heard that one”

    Not really…..but there are cases where pitchers with bad control are more successful in the pen….

  24. munson15 June 14th, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    Since last nights game was blacked out locally, I was forced to sit through the Braves announcers last night . Now, I understand being a homer, but these guys take it to a whole new level. They constantly complained about the strike zone for the Braves, while implying the reason the Yankees don’t strike out as much because they get the calls. But my favorite was them saying the reason Yankee games last so long was because the Yankee hitters act like Diva’s when they come to the plate. Don’t want to bore you with the rest, and there was plenty more.

    Sorry if this has been touched on already, just had to get it off my chest.

  25. LGY June 14th, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    GB7

    Do you think the Yankees are a better team with Stewart or Cervelli?

  26. GreenBeret7 June 14th, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    blake June 14th, 2012 at 12:31 pm
    “Are there cases were a starter’s control gets better after moving to the pen? Haven’t heard that one”

    Not really…..but there are cases where pitchers with bad control are more successful in the pen….

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Gossage, Forster, Rivera

  27. blake June 14th, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    Robertson had a 4.7 bb/9 last year with a 1.08 era……anybody think think numbers would have held if he had been a starter?

  28. Warning Track Power June 14th, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    Is there a fan here that can use the day off today from baseball? After the mets series and the braves series, I don’t mind the team is off today. I can use a little breather before the upcoming nats series.
    Logan, Eppley and Soriano. That was exciting and fun to watch.
    I just knew Eppley was going to get that DP to end the 8th.
    When Soriano threw that fastball inside and broke Heyward’s bat, that reminded me of
    how many times Mo closed out a game with a broken bat.

  29. 86w183 June 14th, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    Betances may be a guy whose control problems are tied to him trying to be too fine with his fastball because he doesn’t trust his other pitches. If you move him to the pen you also make him a two-pitch guy.

    I often have felt that Joba would be better as a starter than Phil because of secondary stuff, but that may never happen.

  30. RadioKev June 14th, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    I suppose what I mean is, there’s obvious proof that a guy’s stuff plays better when he’s in the pen…can they same be said for control? Would a guy’s control improve just because he’s in the pen? I’ve never seen that argument made before.

  31. blake June 14th, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    Valverde walked 4.2 per 9 last year and was perfect in save opportunities

  32. yankeefeminista June 14th, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    blake, I saw Betances pitched for almost full season with decent control and he did the same in A+. In AA it was usually the first inning when he was out of whack and then he settled in. Hard to know what the problem is when I am not seeing games live. But yeah, agree that he needs to progress. However, his being in the system 7 years is relevant in terms of roster spot, but it is a misconception to act as if he hasn’t figured it out in 7 years, more like 3 full years because of all the time he has missed.

  33. GreenBeret7 June 14th, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    I just knew Eppley was going to get that DP to end the 8th.
    When Soriano threw that fastball inside and broke Heyward’s bat, that reminded me of

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    I guess that I’m not a “true Yankee fan”, because I didn’t think the Yankees would be able to hold that 1 run lead for 4 innings.

  34. blake June 14th, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    “s, there’s obvious proof that a guy’s stuff plays better when he’s in the pen…can they same be said for control? Would a guy’s control improve just because he’s in t”he pen? I’ve never seen that argument made before.”

    Not really again but you can get away eith it better out of the pen because the stuff often plays up and you can K more guys and because the opportunities for disaster are lessened. Some g uys can pitch well for 1 inning but they cant for 7……

  35. RadioKev June 14th, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    blake June 14th, 2012 at 12:52 pm
    Valverde walked 4.2 per 9 last year and was perfect in save opportunities
    —————

    Tell me about it. Do we actually think he’ll sustain that?

  36. GreenBeret7 June 14th, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    I’m still of the belief that getting Betances to a no-wind up delivery would help him fix the control issues. eliminate the unnecessary moving parts.

  37. yankeefeminista June 14th, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    Betances trusts his other pitches; his CB is filthy, as is his change, but he didn’t use the latter enough last year, as they were emphasizing fastball command. It is more about control and repeatability.

  38. blake June 14th, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    “Tell me about it. Do we actually think he’ll sustain that?”

    Nah but it can be done….

  39. LGY June 14th, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    Gossage

    Starter: 3.6 BB/9
    Reliever: 3.7 BB/9

    Forster

    Starter: 3.8 BB/9
    Reliever: 3.8 BB/9

  40. tomingeorgia June 14th, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    GB7,
    Worked for Bob Turley, back in the day.

  41. GreenBeret7 June 14th, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    tomingeorgia June 14th, 2012 at 1:01 pm
    GB7,
    Worked for Bob Turley, back in the day.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Worked for Tommy Byrne and some guy named Don Larsen, too.

  42. yankeefeminista June 14th, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    GB, maybe obviously he does it from the stretch, but no windup might affect his velo and ability to hide the ball.

  43. BIG AL June 14th, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    Where are all the nay sayers now, you know, the ones that said in essence this team was over the hill, and going nowhere.

    They can’t hit, the pitching is weak etc.

    Ladies and gentlemen, the first place Yankees thank you for your support.

    Not only in first place in the AL East, but boost the best record in the AL.

  44. BIG AL June 14th, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    GB7 -

    Some here do not remember that Mo was a failed SP, and had he not been converted to a BP pitcher, he most likely would have been done as a Yankee.

    I guess us old timers can still remember some things, lol.

  45. BoJo June 14th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    pat June 14th, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    Joe Torre named manager of USA WBC Team.
    __________
    A moment of silence please for all those young arms that will surely now die in the service of their country.

  46. 86w183 June 14th, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    It’s overstating it to say he was a failure as a starter. Mariano only made 10 starts in the majors. He was 3-3 5.94.

  47. Doc Iac June 14th, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    BoJo June 14th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    pat June 14th, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    Joe Torre named manager of USA WBC Team.
    __________
    A moment of silence please for all those young arms that will surely now die in the service of their country.

    —–

    hahahahah that was good

  48. tomingeorgia June 14th, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    GB7,
    Plowboy Tommy Byrne had a golf course in Wake Forest, NC, that had a first hole of 640 yards from an elevated tee, down into the flood plain of the Neuse River, across the river and up to an elevated green. Byrne told me he’d never parred it, and neither did I.

  49. BoJo June 14th, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    I hope Betances does not turn out same as Brackman….

  50. LGY June 14th, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    It’s overstating it to say he was a failure as a starter. Mariano only made 10 starts in the majors. He was 3-3 5.94.

    ———-

    Have to agree. The move to the bullpen worked out but pretty unfair to refer to him as a failed SP after only 10 starts.

  51. BoJo June 14th, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    BTW–Brackman is doing terribly in Reds organization.

  52. GreenBeret7 June 14th, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    YF,

    Betances has enough smoke on his fastball to give up a mile or 2 on his, to go with his other stuff. Turley and Larsen both said that they lost almost nothing after they changed over to the new wind-up. Later in his career, Jim Kaat switched to a no-wind-up when he went to Chicago and he pitched better than he had since 1965.

  53. BIG AL June 14th, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    86w183 June 14th, 2012 at 1:18 pm
    It’s overstating it to say he was a failure as a starter. Mariano only made 10 starts in the majors. He was 3-3 5.94.

    ************************************************************

    The Yankees were convinced Mo would not make it as a SP, and came close to trading him. Had he not gone back to AAA and worked on becoming a BP pitcher, he would have been history.

  54. GreenBeret7 June 14th, 2012 at 1:29 pm

    On Betances, nothing he’s done has fixed the issue. How about trying something radical that has worked for other pitchers of his size?

  55. Bronx Jeers June 14th, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    Mo had 5 quality starts.

    I remember thinking he had some promise. :shock:

  56. blake June 14th, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    I think they should give Betances awhile longer as a starter…..because he does have upside there …..but it wouldnt be the end of the world to try him as a reliever if its just not working….it may not help him…..but it might as a lot of pitchers with bad walk rates and big stuff have had success as relievers where maybe they wouldnt have as starters……..Im pulling for him to help the Yankees in whatever role he can.

  57. LGY June 14th, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    Had he not gone back to AAA and worked on becoming a BP pitcher, he would have been history.

    ——–

    Ummm…Mo was never sent back to AAA.

  58. Warning Track Power June 14th, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    BoJo June 14th, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    BTW–Brackman is doing terribly in Reds organization.
    ———————————————————————————————
    That is no surprise to Yankees scouts. Highly touted prospects don’t always work out.
    Just the way the ball bounces.

  59. Hassey June 14th, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    One thought on Brian McCann – I only watch the Braves 5-8 times a year, typically against the Mets. Regardless of this year’s slow start, this guy can hit. Once Chipster is gone, this will be McCann’s team for years.

  60. GreenBeret7 June 14th, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    Rivera started almost 70 games in the minors, and yes, I’m aware that he’s walked 2 per nine innings in both the minors and majors. It has improved after he turned to relief. It’s not that uncommen.

  61. 86w183 June 14th, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    That’s not the same as calling him a “failure” as a starter.

    He was 18-8, 2.63 in his last 51 minor league appearances, all starts

  62. blake June 14th, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    Right now Betances is taking up a 40 man spot just to protect him from the rule 5 draft more or less……not the end of the world but does limit flexibility at least some. At some point he has to improve or they have to get value of some sort from him…..

  63. BoJo June 14th, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    Warning Track Power June 14th, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    BoJo June 14th, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    BTW–Brackman is doing terribly in Reds organization.
    ———————————————————————————————
    That is no surprise to Yankees scouts. Highly touted prospects don’t always work out.
    Just the way the ball bounces.
    ______________
    Agreed. It’s why I never get excited about a prospect until I have seen them in majors.

  64. 86w183 June 14th, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    Brackman was an idiotic draft and idiotic sign from day one.

    Who on earth drafts a guy you KNOW needs TJ surgery and then gaurnatee him $ 4.5 M !?!?!

  65. BIG AL June 14th, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    Wikipedia info on Mo -

    Major leagues (1995–present)

    [edit] 1995–1997

    After opening the 1995 season with Columbus, Rivera made his major league debut against the California Angels on May 23, 1995, as a starting pitcher. Replacing an injured Jimmy Key, Rivera allowed five earned runs in 3 1?3 innings pitched in a 10–0 loss.[21][22] He experienced mixed success as a major league starter and as a result, he split time between the Yankees and their Columbus minor league affiliate.[20] As a 25-year-old rookie just three years removed from major arm surgery, Rivera’s role on the team was not guaranteed. Management considered trading him to the Detroit Tigers for starter David Wells, but Yankees general manager Gene Michael quickly called off negotiations when he learned that Rivera’s pitches reached 95–96 mph (153–154 km/h) in one of his starts, 6 mph (9.7 km/h) faster than his previous average velocity. Rivera attributes his inexplicable improvement to God.[23] He also participated in a two-hit shutout of the Chicago White Sox on July 4, when he recorded a career-high 11 strikeouts.[20] Overall, he finished his first season in the major leagues with a 5–3 record and a 5.51 ERA in 10 starts and nine relief outings.[24] His improvement during the year and his success in the 1995 American League Division Series, in which he pitched 5 1?3 scoreless innings of relief, convinced Yankees management to keep him and move him into the bullpen the following season to be a full-time relief pitcher.[25][26]

  66. luis June 14th, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    Hello everyone,

    On Betances….I think they have to ride it out with him. To be a BP guy, he has to lower the walks first. in any case, you don´t send to the pen a three plus pitches pitcher. About his new shortened stride, i am not convinced that´s the way to go. That won´t help on finishing his pitches, which in turn might be hurting his command and control.

    I would definitely wait it out with him. His upside is too great.

  67. Hassey June 14th, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    If Pettitte’s wife lets him keep pitching until he’s 50, the Yanks won’t need Betances…problem solved

  68. blake June 14th, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    I saw Brackman pitch in college and he was a monster when he was right ….it looks terrible now but the yanks took a flyer on upside and tried to get a talent they normally cant get in the draft…..it didnt work out but I dont necessarily disagree with the thought process……

  69. BIG AL June 14th, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    86w183 June 14th, 2012 at 1:35 pm
    That’s not the same as calling him a “failure” as a starter.

    He was 18-8, 2.63 in his last 51 minor league appearances, all starts

    ***********************************************************

    Minor league starts do not transform to ML success. Look at Mo’s MLB stats as a SP, and read about how he almost got traded, because the team did not think he’d be a good SP. His going to the BP was the start of his success in baseball.

  70. Warning Track Power June 14th, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    Agreed. It’s why I never get excited about a prospect until I have seen them in majors.
    ——————————————————————————————————————-
    BOJO
    I feel the same.
    I have to admit I was slightly excited when I read all the hype about Montero, but I had to remain calm because in the back of my mind I figured 2 things:
    1-He would eventually be traded for a need
    2-He would fail to live up to the hype

    That’s why I don’t get very excited about the Killer B’s down in the minors or Romine behind the plate or anybody else that is a top prospect.

  71. yankeefeminista June 14th, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    “because he does have upside there …..but it wouldnt be the end of the world to try him as a reliever if its just not working”

    We have other options at reliever. Good ones. It is far more difficult to come up with SP arms like his. It would be one thing if he had average-above average stuff or only two pitches. The thinking is they will give him as much time as they can because of the plus stuff. If it doesn’t work out, only then do you think bullpen.

    Betances is nothing like Betances; Brackman was working out of the pen in A ball because his control was so bad. Betances has never been relegated to the pen in the minors. Brackman would sometimes throw 4WP in an inning and finished 100 IP of AAA with an over 7 BB/9. Betances’ arsenal of pitches, K rates, and pitchability are all much higher than Brackman’s.

  72. yankeefeminista June 14th, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    nothing like *Brackman, that is.

  73. GreenBeret7 June 14th, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    By all means, ride it out with Betances (and Banuelos, too). Too much talent to toss away, but, get rid of the failure Hughes because he’s making all of $3.2 mil this year. He won’t make $10 mil more than 2 years.

  74. yankeefeminista June 14th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    And with Brackman too, he may still get it right. You never know.

  75. blake June 14th, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    “We have other options at reliever. Good ones. It is far more difficult to come up with SP arms like his. ”

    Yea I not arguing that point……just trying to figure out how long you wait with him taking up a 40 man spot…….maybe he will take off and answer it for us…..

  76. yankeefeminista June 14th, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    GB, yeah well, Hughes has been the punching bag for quite a few years now… he’ll have the last laugh though.

  77. BIG AL June 14th, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    Regardless of the name of a prospect, they need to show growth and improvement at each stage of their career.

    When a player is repeating AAA for 2 or 3 years, and is still working on his basics, such as control and command for a pitcher, I lower my expectations on the player becoming a force at the ML level, JMO.

  78. BoJo June 14th, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    YF—I only mention Betances with Brackman in the sense that I would hate to see him as another failed prospect.

  79. luis June 14th, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    GreenBeret7 June 14th, 2012 at 1:46 pm
    By all means, ride it out with Betances (and Banuelos, too). Too much talent to toss away, but, get rid of the failure Hughes because he’s making all of $3.2 mil this year. He won’t make $10 mil more than 2 years.

    ==========================

    ????? Could you elaborate? Why do you bring Hughes?

  80. Warning Track Power June 14th, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    i don’t remember Mo as a starter. i would love to see a game or two that features
    Mo starting in ’95 or a game with him as a relieve from the same year.

  81. yankeefeminista June 14th, 2012 at 1:52 pm

    Big Al, DJ Mitchell and Warren are the only pitching prospect we have who are repeating AAA. And DJ probably would be starting on another club.

  82. luis June 14th, 2012 at 1:52 pm

    Bojo,

    By the way….Is good to have you around more often ;)

  83. luis June 14th, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    yankeefeminista June 14th, 2012 at 1:52 pm
    Big Al, DJ Mitchell and Warren are the only pitching prospect we have who are repeating AAA. And DJ probably would be starting on another club.

    =================

    Spot on

  84. EA June 14th, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    “By all means, ride it out with Betances (and Banuelos, too). Too much talent to toss away, but, get rid of the failure Hughes because he’s making all of $3.2 mil this year. He won’t make $10 mil more than 2 years.”

    Betances and Baneulos would sell their soul if they got 5 years in the majors to prove themselves like Hughes has.

    If Betances/Banulos have yet to pitch 200 above average innings by through 4 years of service time, they will likely be long gone.

  85. BoJo June 14th, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    Warning Track Power June 14th, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    i don’t remember Mo as a starter. i would love to see a game or two that features
    Mo starting in ’95 or a game with him as a relieve from the same year.

    I saw teh White Sox game he started. Later heard from one of the players (IIRC Tim Raines) that ChiSox had book on him that said he mainly threw junk and lived by control. After first hitter faced him (Raines>), he came back to bench saying throw away the book…this kid’s throwing big league heat.

  86. BoJo June 14th, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    luis June 14th, 2012 at 1:52 pm

    Bojo,

    By the way….Is good to have you around more often
    ___
    Thank you sir! I may have to go away in a few days for a while, but it is always fun to talk baseball with you folks.

  87. 86w183 June 14th, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    Big Al…. I know all of those things. I just disagree with the use of the word “failure”. H eonly got 10 starts in the majors and had 5 “quality” starts. That’s not enough of an opportunity to fail in my book.

    Blake — We agree more often than not, but I completely disagree with the thought process that leads a team to draft damaged goods and pay millions for the privilege.

  88. GreenBeret7 June 14th, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    Betances and Baneulos would sell their soul if they got 5 years in the majors to prove themselves like Hughes has.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Did Hughes really get 5 years “to prove himself”? He was a reliever in one year and hurt in one full year and at least half a season twice in his career.

  89. yankeefeminista June 14th, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    With pitching prospects, I don’t consider them failed until they actually fail. You just have to let it play out. On the practical side, the Yankees will have to make decisions about the roster, and hopefully they make the right ones. Nova was technically a wrong decision, but we hoped he wouldn’t stick on the Padres 25 man, and he did not. Lucky or strategically well played by us. Either way, we are the beneficiaries of that one.

  90. yanks 27 June 14th, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    Give me a 1st rd pick like Brackman over a pick like Cito Culver anyday.

  91. yankeefeminista June 14th, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    Bo, got ya, but many people conflate Betances and Brackman, so I just want to differentiate. They are two different pitchers with two different skill sets and issues.

  92. 86w183 June 14th, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    No matter how bad Culver turns out to be, he won’t be nearly as much $$$$ down the drain as Mr. Brackman

  93. austinmac June 14th, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    I think the jury is very much out whether Betances will ever harness his control enough to be usable. Still, guys who have his stuff don’t grow on trees. Keep on trying is about all they can do. I have no problem with GB’s no wind-up try. Simplify.

  94. luis June 14th, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    Culver is far from done….He could still turn it around, i think being surrounded by so many good prospects will help him out untap his potential

  95. luis June 14th, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    austinmac June 14th, 2012 at 2:00 pm
    I think the jury is very much out whether Betances will ever harness his control enough to be usable. Still, guys who have his stuff don’t grow on trees. Keep on trying is about all they can do. I have no problem with GB’s no wind-up try. Simplify.

    ======================

    Agreed….They should drop the shortening stride while at it

  96. yankeefeminista June 14th, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    Why do we know that Cito will turn out badly? He can pick it, and we will see if his bat comes around. His biggest issue being a switchy is hitting from the left side, but he has time to improve. He’s only 19.

  97. austinmac June 14th, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    YF,

    They are, of course, two separate pitchers, but their issue is the same. No control at all. Betances has almost a walk an inning. That is Brackmanian.

  98. 86w183 June 14th, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    I’m not down on Culver at all. I just challenged the notion that Brackman was a wiser pick than Culver when Brackman is arguably the worst draft choice the Yanks have ever made considering the high risk and ZERO reward.

  99. austinmac June 14th, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    As a sometimes golfer and one who remembers Yogi saying “you can’t think and hit at the same time”, I know too many thoughts ruin one’s game. A guy on the mound during a game can’t be thinking too much about mechanics. That has to be done in the bullpen. In a game, he has to think of one key thing at the most. Perhaps, just throw the ball would be good.

  100. yankeefeminista June 14th, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    And I have seen Betances outpitch Kyle Drabek twice and lead the Trenton team to an AA title. Agreed that he needs better control, but this year is an anomaly. And still he has almost a 12 K/9 rate. We shall see.

  101. blake June 14th, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    “Blake — We agree more often than not, but I completely disagree with the thought process that leads a team to draft damaged goods and pay millions for the privilege.”

    Yea thats fine…..but TJS is really predictable these days and back then you coukd spend whatever you wanted….it was a spending risk to try and save money down the road…..didnt work out

  102. yankeefeminista June 14th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    austinmac, agree that Betances’ walk rates this year are bad, but this high a walk rate is atypical of even for him. I just don’t see it continuing.

  103. BIG AL June 14th, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    Betances MiL record -

    Second season at AAA, although last year was not a full season. His stats are going in the wrong direction.

    http://www.baseball-reference......tanc001del

  104. yanks 27 June 14th, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    I’m not talking about the player performance, I’m talking about the draft ideology of going for upside, even with risk, rather than settling for a safe pick that likely won’t be an impact player even if he reaches his upside.

    What is Cito Culver’s realistic upside? A light-hitting, defensive everyday SS?
    Brackman’s realistic upside was a monster top of the rotation starter or late inning reliever.

    (no one is saying Culver or whomever can’t completely outperform what scouts think of him, but that is true of every player, so it’s not a valid argument).

    I’m just not a fan of safe picks where the Yankees pick. They are not going to find no-brainers like Strasburg, Tulo, Longoria, Price, etc. down there. It is about upside vs. downside.

    Yanks wanted Porcello anyway in that draft and looked like they were going to get him, but DET snatched him away.

  105. 86w183 June 14th, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    later folks… have a day!

  106. yankeefeminista June 14th, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    I have had no problem with the Yankees high risk/high reward drafting approach, re: pitchers. It has made sense in the past considering where we have been drafting.

  107. yankeefeminista June 14th, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    Al, Betances pitched 21 IP at AAA last year. 105 at AA. I don’t consider last year a season at AAA.

  108. BIG AL June 14th, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    Y’all have a great day, bye.

  109. G. Love June 14th, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    I agree with the posters saying stop taking the daily temperature of Betances or any prospect.

    We don’t need Betances right now. We have enough starting pitching for him to pitch the season at AAA and get things worked out.

    If there were an OF’er, C or 3b at AAA who had his kind of potential but was struggling making the jump, it’d be a different story. The team needs help in those areas immediately.

    Starting pitching and bullpen? We’re fine. You’ve got Phelps, Garcia, Warren and Mitchell ready in case of emergency. In the pen we’ve got Robertsen, Joba and Aardsma returning this season.

    Betances, while not a youngster, still has time to work it out.

    I mean, isn’t that what happened to Randy Johnson? He was tall, mechanics were all over the place and then suddenly it made sense and he dominated the league.

  110. TD213 June 14th, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    Yanks are not very proactive with their prospects. Another organization would have seen that his current mechanics are not working at all and immedialtey try and fix it so he has a good 2nd half.

    Yanks will probably just leave him out there to dry and hope he figures out, maybe try a few minor tweaks (when it is obvious he likely needs something more extensive), and if he doesn’t, then they’ll move him to the pen, or give him another year and if he doesn’t improve, then try him as a reliever or trade him.

  111. yankeefeminista June 14th, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    I am all for drafting high risk, but Cito is a plus defensive shortstop and a switchhitter at a prime position. If he can get his hit tool up to par, down the road, he actually could be a very valuable player for us.

  112. BoJo June 14th, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    TD213 June 14th, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    Yanks are not very proactive with their prospects.
    ———–
    How do you draw that conclusion?

  113. BoJo June 14th, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    yankeefeminista June 14th, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    I am all for drafting high risk, but Cito is a plus defensive shortstop and a switchhitter at a prime position. If he can get his hit tool up to par, down the road, he actually could be a very valuable player for us.
    ___________
    Ozzie Smith and Bud harrelson had value, and started at same level IIRC.

  114. yankeefeminista June 14th, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    Have a good day, 86 and Big Al.


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