Postgame notes: “It’s tough when you’re burying the team early”
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Notes on Jun 20, 2012 
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On a day like this, it’s impossible to ignore the home runs. There were nine of them today, a new record at the new Yankee Stadium. Four were hit off Phil Hughes, who became the first Major League pitcher to give up 19 of them this season. Two-out, two-run homers by Freddie Freeman and Jason Heyward were the biggest blows of the day.
But when it was over, Hughes wasn’t focused on how the runs scored, he was more concerned with when they scored.
“Ultimately I think it’s the first inning that’s killing me more than anything,” Hughes said. “Coming out and not making pitches then. It allows myself to get on a little bit of a roll if I can have a solid first inning and go from there. …Bourn looping a ball to left field is not exactly a way you want to start, then you’ve got to go to the stretch and work from there. It’s nice to get a good rhythm going early, and I really couldn’t find that. From there I don’t make a good two-strike pitch to Uggla, and first pitching swinging and Freeman hits a homer. It’s tough when you’re burying the team early like that.”
Hughes is a fly ball pitcher, and when that’s the case, home runs are going to happen. Even when he’s gotten on a roll this season, he’s still allowed at least one home run in every game but one. Every one of his fastballs is a four-seamer — said he never got the feel for a two-seamer in the minors — and when he makes mistakes, those fastballs can go a long way.
“Not my best stuff and then bad location,” he said. “Usually I can pitch OK with one or the other, or if I have both it’s going to be a good day. Today I just didn’t have either.”
At his best, Hughes is aggressive with that four-seamer, but today he just didn’t have it. He said the heat was a non-issue, and no one in the Yankees clubhouse seemed to think balls were carrying more than usual today. The home runs were hit because Hughes made mistakes, and when he let the Braves take a three-run lead in the first — when he had been one strike away from getting out of that inning scoreless — the Yankees were in trouble.
“If I don’t have a good fastball, obviously that’s my bread and butter, and it’s tough to pitch without it sometimes,” Hughes said. “But I still have to try and do a better job. Even if I don’t have a good fastball, locate a little better. Maybe incorporate my changeup a little earlier. I threw some good ones when we were down 5-1, but at that point, it’s kind of a lost cause. In that first inning maybe I can be a little bit smarter and make a couple of better pitches.”
• The Yankees 10-game winning streak has become a two-game losing streak. It’s the first time since May 28-30 that the Yankees have lost two in a row or lost a series. “When we were in the 10-game winning streak, I didn’t think we were going to win 100 in a row,” Joe Girardi said. “I didn’t think that was possibly going to happen. We put these two behind us, we move on and we try to win a series against the Mets.”
• The Yankees were within a run when Alex Rodriguez came up with one out and runners at the corners in the seventh inning. He hit into a double play. “Sinker, pitch selection, a pitcher’s pitch,” Rodriguez said. “You have to get a better pitch to hit there. There’s no sugar-coating; that’s just not an acceptable at-bat right there.”
• More from Rodriguez on that seventh-inning at-bat: “I don’t know if it was anxious. They’ve been working me soft and away all series. I got a pitch in that I felt was going to be a strike, and it was maybe four, five inches off the plate.”
• According to Elias, this was the first time in franchise history that two pitchers allowed at least four home runs in the same game (includes starters and relievers, and includes two pitchers from the same team doing it). Both Hughes and Tommy Hanson gave up four homers today.
• Although it was hot and the ball was flying out of the park, the Yankees seemed to agree that the conditions weren’t the reason for a nine-homer game. “The balls were barreled up,” Russell Martin said. “The reason they hit home runs is that we made mistakes over the middle of the plate and they hit ‘em.”
• The one home run ball that the Yankees seemed to think was not hit particularly well was Rodriguez’s. Both Hughes and Martin specifically mentioned it as one that didn’t look like it was going to get out of the park. “Any time you get a curveball up in the zone and you hit it out to right field, it’s a pretty decent swing,” Rodriguez said. “It was a strike, it was a good swing, and you always judge the process, not the results.”
• Late in the game Girardi asked Mark Teixeira if he could play. Teixeira said he’d be fine, and so Girardi put him in for a pinch-hit double. “It probably wouldn’t have been good for me to play all nine hobbling around like that,” Teixeira said. “But to play one inning and get one at-bat, I can get through it for the end of the game.”
• Teixeira said he has no doubt he’ll be able to play Friday.
• Clay Rapada struck out all four batters he faced today. He’s now held opponents hitless in their past 20 at-bats against him.
• Fastball command was the phrase of the day with Hughes, who had won three straight starts coming into this one and said he felt especially good his last time out in Washington. “The difference between this start and his other starts was pretty much his fastball command,” Martin said. “We tried to throw up-and-in on lefties and it would just run back over the plate.”
• Although Hughes got on a good run while leaving heavily on his fastball these past few weeks, he acknowledged that he’s still trying to find the right balance between fastballs and offspeed pitches. “If I have really good stuff, it’s easy,” he said. “I kind of feel like I know what I want to do and can be aggressive with my fastball. On days like today, where I don’t have good stuff or location, it’s a battle trying to throw my changeup and incorporate my curveball when I can. It just wasn’t there.”
• On the changeup specifically: “Really it just seems like the situations don’t really present themselves as much as they did in the past,” Hughes said. “I’ve gotten hurt on it a couple of times to right-handed hitters, so I’m a little skittish to use it there, but it’s still an effective pitch for me. I just maybe have to find more opportunities to use it.”
• Hughes on the impact of today’s heat: “It’s uncomfortable, but it’s uncomfortable for everybody. I’ve got to do a better job. I’m sure CC would have loved to pitch today. It can be 110 and he’ll be throwing 98. It’s not an issue. The long innings are no fun in the heat, but if I pitch better it’s all fine.”
• The Yankees became the last team in the Majors to allow 10 runs in a game this season. … Derek Jeter hit the 28th leadoff home run of his career, extending his franchise record. He’s one away from his most leadoff home runs in a season (five). … Rodriguez passed Jimmie Foxx for sixth on baseball’s all-time RBI list. … Robinson Cano homered for the third time in four games.
• MLB.com reported today that the Yankees signed 19-year-old Cuban lefty Omar Luis Rodriguez to a minor league contract. The deal is reportedly worth $4-5 million.
Associated Press photos
I don’t see calling attention to another team/player clearly breaking the rules “bush”, even if you “save it” for an opportune time.
I don’t see calling attention to another team/player clearly breaking the rules “bush”, even if you “save it” for an opportune time.
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Because he wasn’t clearly breaking the rules, it took inside information for the Nats to be able to call it out, and its a breach of the insular nature of the baseball clubhouse to rat out a fellow player. That is what makes it ‘bush league’. Didn’t see any players ratting each other out for amphetamines or steroids did we?
He was clearly breaking the rules, I don’t care how they knew. And it can be proven on the field, unlike steriods.
They were on them themselves, And besides, someone did rat them out.
So, did Hughes avoid the changeup or did Girardi/Martin’s game plan minimize using it? In postgame Girardi said the latter, because the Braves hit the changeup very well.
That’s just it. If you get caught, don’t start whining about it. Ford cut, scuffed, loaded the seams with mud, but, never whined about when caught. Perry didn’t. Nettles loaded a bat a few times, but, didn’t whine after being caught. Joey Belle, Sosa…all either lied about grabbing the wrong bat or had somebody try to steal the bat. In ’61, Norm Cash used a loaded bat to win a batting title, but the next year, he got caught and didn’t whine about it I notice that only Maddon was complaining. Typical of him.
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Jerkface June 20th, 2012 at 6:58 pm
Maddon didn’t get caught, his player did. And were those other players snitched by players or just caught by the third party (umpire/media)?
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Umpires don’t check unless it’s called to their attention, unless it’s a hitter and the bat comes apart with super balls rolling around on the ground.
“If I have really good stuff, it’s easy,” he said. “I kind of feel like I know what I want to do and can be aggressive with my fastball. On days like today, where I don’t have good stuff or location, it’s a battle trying to throw my changeup and incorporate my curveball when I can. It just wasn’t there.”
Umpire Jeff Nelson is out to look at the baseball! It has already begun! OMG!
Phil has his stuff back….he has a better CU and a workable breaking ball at times now….as he said he can be dominant when he has his good stuff and command…..what he needs to figure out now isnhow to survive on the days he has nothing …..and all pitchers have those days….some have those days a lot. The good pitchers learn to survive those days and thats what Hughes has to figure out. He has two guys who are great at it in his own dugout…..
Lol on the pitch Strasburg struck Jennings out on.
Yep, Andy and C will continue to mentor Hughes.
The unintended consequences of this little action — ratting out Peralta — could be devastating.
It seems so simple, so small. Kill the Archduke Franz Ferdinand, strike a blow against the rancid monarchy. But where will it lead?????
These are uneasy times.
Chris Archer’s debut upcoming, FTWC.
The ball was really traveling today, as indicated by the HR.
Phil did not seem like an extreme flyball pitcher in Trenton.
I would like to see him work on throwing more pitches down in the zone.
Maddon seems determined to keep this stuff going. Now stating that players will not come to Washington because they might be concerned about being “ratted out”. When a writer asked Maddon why he was trying to deflect the blame and place it on the other team, he got snippy and wanted to know if he was a baseball writer. Answer was Yes and replay, “Well, then you need to go ask the other team.”
That’s what Hughes said. It Girardi said the plan was not to use the change much.
just checked archer before his first MLB pitch.
To start, Archer is getting hit. He looks nervous as hell.
Sorry for typos on iPhone.
“That’s what Hughes said. It Girardi said the plan was not to use the change much.”
It’s strange that he used 0 v. the Nats but 6 today according to Brooks Baseball.
Archer was hit for hard double and single to first 2 hitters and then blow the easy grounder to short by throwing the ball into the 3rd base dugout.
He didnt need his CU against the Nats….he was beating them with fastballs the whole game…..today with all those lefty hitters and the ball flying it woukd have been njce if he coukd have used it more effectively to get some grounds outs and to get guys off his fastball
This thing between the Rays and Nats is beyond stupid….both sides are acting like children
YF, hard to say whether Maddon’s little stunt backfired, but, it looks pretty stupid right now. Wait until the kid has his feet on the ground before trying that. You knew that Johnson wasn’t going to let a challenge go past him.
Rich, 6 isn’t that many though. He’s thrown 14 and 20 in some games (KC). Just depends on team and fb.
Archer’s cb pitch he calls a slider is filthy. Rays D has been porous.
Gb you watching Nuno pitch for Trenton?
Archer can barely throw the ball to first place. Or is he throwing them in the dirt to scuff them up?
“He didnt need his CU against the Nats….he was beating them with fastballs the whole game…”
At Hughes’ stage of development, I think it makes sense to throw a few in every game to maintain a feel for the pitch.
GB, you mean pitching Archer?
Archers walked 5+ in AAA.
I’ve got it on in the background, YF. Just watching Maddon acting like a jerk as usual and watching the smirk disappear from his face.
Rich,
Yea cant argue there…
Baltimore’s done a good job against the Mets
Cuellar, Dobson, McNally, Doyle Alexander, and of course there’s Eddie Watt, and everyone knew they’d be doctoring the ball…….And who was playing 2nd base while all this was going on ???? Davey Johnson…..I won’t even bring up the pitchers he played behind in Atlanta……Guys don’t rat out each other, that’s the umps job as he can see a fixed ball as well as anyone if not better……..Sorry but I guess I’ll take the old school road on this……..Cuellar threw pitches that just had crazy movement and he didn’t throw hard…..I flaired him to right
yankeefeminista June 20th, 2012 at 7:32 pm
GB, you mean pitching Archer?
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no, meant that it was stupid of Maddon to go to the mound and have ump check strasburg in the first inning. You know Johnson was going to retaliate….and he did.
Yeah Hughes didn’t really need the change vs Nats. But probably isn’t going to throw it much when he’s already constantly behind b/c of no FB command.
Jose Molina just smoked a bomb off of strasburg.
GB, Maddon being Maddon.
Jose Molina homers.
How’d the kiddies look @ASG, GB? I saw the stats.
You have to be committed to prospects to be able to endure the dog and pony shows at these parks.
Last night, in SI, they handed out these plastic bats, which several tyrants who passed for small children began fiendishly beating each other with. This went on. And on. The noise level alone was unreal. I finally escaped my section when I discovered the ushers were content to smile at me and wave rather than stop me from advancing to seats I had no tickets for behind the plate. It was much gentler there, with the scribbling scouts and their poised in air radar guns situated just below me, and I watched the rest of the game in relative peace.
The especially weird thing about Staten Island is, everyone seems to park illegally along Bay Street where the park is located. The police station is right across the street, but people seem impervious and happily park their cars and emerge from them without looking back.
I still do not fully understand how this works, unless they suspend this on “game days” and it’s just a neighborhood, inside knowledge. I was not about to take the risk, however, and got stiffed for the $8.00 parking fee. Trenton’s only $3.00
just saw matt wieters in the met’s game. i was thinking this was going to be the year he busted out and became the hitter everybody was so sure he’d be. he had a great month and a half and looked all star worth, then the last month he’s hit 1hr/9 rbi and he looks like the same underwhelming hitter he’s been since he came up.
at least i didnt draft carlos santana…
I only mention this, because I’m trying to watch the Thunder and the in-between innings is even excruciating online. After last night, my tolerance is quite low.
YF, what’s wrong with Maruszk? Hes starting to it like a star prospect with doubles and homers over the last 10 days.
On Phil’s best days he doesnt need a 3rd pitch…..but he really needs to get comfortable and refine his ability to use his CU as part of that plan B attack on days when he doesnt have his A stuff……his CU can make his fastball play up on days when its diwn and its also a pitch that he could maybe generate some ground balls with and get cheap outs with…….I think the pitch has improved enough where he can use it….he just has to make it a weapon for him.
yankeefeminista June 20th, 2012 at 7:31 pm
Gb you watching Nuno pitch for Trenton?
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I am
Trenton’s no picnic either as far as the extracurricular, ESP when you’re so close to the field. No one seems to get tickets in SI when parking on Bay street. Love the view of the harbor from home plate with the ships passing through.
probably because all the cops park their cars illegally near the station so nobody pays attention…
GB I haven’t seen enough of Trenton to say but hope to get there this weekend; everyone there is killing the ball. Nuno’s supposed to have good stuff but having watched him pitch yet. I’ve been woefully negligent when it comes to Trenton.
Pruf how’s Zoilo been looking or should I call him zoology as my iPhone wants me to?
“Last night, in SI, they handed out these plastic bats, which several tyrants who passed for small children began fiendishly beating each other with.”
This is pretty funny…unless you are actually there. Sorry.
o one seems to get tickets in SI when parking on Bay street.
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What’s up with that?? I even see people parking in the bus queue. Maybe SI is some parallel world. The bay breezes must be responsible for hypnotizing everyone.
*havent
Rich, not remotely funny I was almost moved to actually beat up a child because of the pain of enduring such a thing.
I love milb but… Please.
Give the kids soft toys instead, please.
Rich, you don’t know the half of it. It is politically incorrect to make threatening grimaces to children. I basically took it out on the slopped up business men in 3-piece suits who spilled beer on us and shouted in my ear to their buddies several rows away. I finally ran up the white flag and fled for the sane, silent world of the scouts.
Yankeefem – a nightmare I plan to willingly return to, so I guess I get what I deserve. Ravel, you had better pan out, my boy
Anyone watching NHL awards; I forgot about it. Who’s won what so far and why is this show two hours long?
Pruf how’s Zoilo been looking or should I call him zoology as my iPhone wants me to?
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LOL. I saw just one AB. He worked a 3-0 count and was caught looking on a pitch on the inside corner. I may go Friday. All I’ve seen are two Marshall starts.
yf , JAP
I understand. It does seem like kids are permitted to act out in public without repercussions from their parents far more than they were when I was a kid.
This is the 10th time in Hughes’ last 28 starts that he has given up more Earned Runs in a start than Innings Pitched.
Pruf, the only thing you hear w/ the scouts is the muttering: 91, 92. Ohhhh, did you get 96 on that pitch? …
I want to definitely get down there for a AA Sux game this weekend, but also need to get back to SI.
Hughes is still a work in progress; the numbers and the stuff has improved each month. You can’t expect him to be much better than he’s been. But he still is going to have growing pains.
Rich, in SI, the parents have no excuse. The SI Yankees provide the equivalent of a rubber romper room. They should probably be required to knock themselves out bouncing off the walls in there before being allowed to enter the seating area. It did help me discover though that they a lax about you moving around the ballpark, so that was instructive.
Archer has a bit of a sad-sack look to him. Is it the heat?
yankeefeminista June 20th, 2012 at 8:04 pm
Pruf, the only thing you hear w/ the scouts is the muttering: 91, 92. Ohhhh, did you get 96 on that pitch? …
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Sounds of the ballpark
Rich, I thought we had a fair amount of permitted acting out in my day, and I’d guess I’m slightly older than you. My mother often says her kids were never brats that people complained about, though. It’s all the sugar they feed these kids today, I would say, and the “noise” culture we live in is over stimulating.
Nick, he has the slanted eyebrows and clown mouth. Kid was probably hyped up. He has a nice looking slider.
Nick, you mean the butterflies that are trying to exit through his mouth look?
blake, YF, Rich and some others have made good points about Hughes. I can’t get into the panic that attends the odd start that goes awry for him. He’s still learning how to pitch, yes and good points that C and AP are the perfect mentors. He has a dynamite fastball, has made progress with secondary pitches, worth the growing pains.
Maruszak just swung through a slider in the dirt.
Rutckyj had 7 k’s, Rosario has a triple.
Archer’s looking really good. Think Theo doesn’t wish the Cubs still had him.
All of the above? But mostly the hangdog expression he seems to be sporting every time I glance at the game.
That’s right, Theo inherited Garza.
Have a good evening, all.
The Yankees need to hurry and lock up Phil Hughes before he gets expensive.
Not really though.
Good evening everyone, Especially YF, Rick, Blake and Primo JAP
Pitchers are bound to have clunkers here and there, even the best do. I would agree with Rich that he needs to use the CU more to keep the feel for the pitch. He did throw a few good ones today and some good CB’s and some very bad ones. The part of the game that i saw, i didn’t like particularly the way the pitches were called ( Those inside pitches particularly ).
YF, from the couple of times I’ve seen Nuno, I haven’t been all that impressed. Maybe it was just those days, because himnumbers as a Yankee look pretty decent. Just wasn’t overly impressed.
We either spawn innately bad infielders, or have woeful IF coaches.
Tyler Austin was asked, before he was switched from 3B to OF, did they keep on him about his 3B defense, and he replied: “Not really.”
Later.
Who is this Nuno kid?
himnumbers
***his numbers***
luis June 20th, 2012 at 8:27 pm
Good evening everyone, Especially YF, Rick, Blake and Primo JAP
Pitchers are bound to have clunkers here and there, even the best do. I would agree with Rich that he needs to use the CU more to keep the feel for the pitch. He did throw a few good ones today and some good CB’s and some very bad ones. The part of the game that i saw, i didn’t like particularly the way the pitches were called ( Those inside pitches particularly ).
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Buenas Noches, Primo Luis
Good evening JAP
Primo, a lefty.
I hope by the weekend SI are swinging the bats better. I know in the GCL this group raked.
Hi Luis, que tal? Hace mucho calor here. poor Yanks definitely can use the off day, especially Grandy.
Hey my friend! Sorry i couldn’t stay on the game thread or that i arrived too late to talk here
Have a good one.
Really nice AB by Abe Almonte.
yankeefeminista June 20th, 2012 at 8:33 pm
I hope by the weekend SI are swinging the bats better. I know in the GCL this group raked.
Hi Luis, que tal? Hace mucho calor here. poor Yanks definitely can use the off day, especially Grandy.
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Todo bien, con mucho trabajo
They sure do need an off day. they have no one to play CF in order to rest Grandy 
It’s surprising how hot it is in NY, especially for June. Is it humid too??
luis, I think Hughes will forever be a whipping boy among some in the fanbase. Four good starts followed by a bad start, the bad start must of course be the defining start, etc.
Honest Abe Almonte just rocked a ball over the CF’s head. He’s got a quick bat the ball jumps off of. Turned it into a 3B. A very realistic future leadoff option.
before today’s game….over a span of 8 starts since May 6th (the first start after Hughes scrapped his cutter and starting using the bullpen approach)…..he went 6-2 with a 3.27 ERA and 49 K’s in 52 innings pitched…..those numbers will balloon up after today a bit but lets see if he brings them back down to where he’s been pitching the last 6 weeks or so….
uis June 20th, 2012 at 8:33 pm
Hey my friend! Sorry i couldn’t stay on the game thread or that i arrived too late to talk here
Have a good one.
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I’ll be in and out.
. Good AB by Almonte; he also hits the ball well the other way. The Son had today off.
Talking about Gerrit Cole on the Trenton broadcast
http://www.baseballamerica.com.....4-million/
link on the next great Yankee left hander
well you never know…..
Luis, yes sickingly humid. Don’t work too hard!
It would be nice if Abe could keep it going and stay healthy.
GB some consider Nuno a legit prospect. I’ll go see him pitch at some point. However. I seem unable to watch his starts especially now with SS in action.
You never know, sign ‘em all!
Next great left-handers: Manny and Camarena.
Pruf, Cole misses us in Trenton, I believe.
yankeefeminista June 20th, 2012 at 8:45 pm
Pruf, Cole misses us in Trenton, I believe.
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Loser
Abe’s brother Zoilo at the plate
Almonte scorched one through the infield down RF line for double. The Almonte Brothers rule
I know JAP about the Son
I understand that Abe has a lot of holes on his swing and struggles with off speed stuff.
I once dreamed of a two Melkys OF. But maybe I can settle for two Almontes
Rutckyj is also a lefty and don’t forget about Turley. And the sleeper Tracy and….of course “the Big Nude!”
luis,
I have not seen much of him but I would say, based on what I have seen, that is not a sound scouting report. He is on the ball and has a very nice, easy swing and goes oppo well.
luis, I think Hughes will forever be a whipping boy among some in the fanbase. Four good starts followed by a bad start, the bad start must of course be the defining start, etc.
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I don’t want to keep criticizing Hughes but this is a real mischaracterization. We are not talking about a player who has a strong track record and now everyone is just jumping off the bridge because of one bad start.
It’s silly to start cutting a season down into arbitrary endpoints. It’s already a short season for a starting pitcher when we are talking about 25+ starts.
On the whole, Hughes has pitched poorly this season. Any fanbase would be frustrated with a SP who keeps hovering around a 5 ERA.
YF,
Stay in doors….The only time i didn’t like NY was in the summers for that reason…I don’t mind hot and dry days…But humid? I hate them yikes!
Scratch the TBN is a righty.
Crap, Mesa HBP on shoulder. Zoilo already is at 3B off WP
LGY he is 25 y.o. And coming back from arm fatigue; he shouldn’t have to be CC Sabathia and that Era is inflated by a 7+ ERA when he was just returning and didn’t realize you were such a fan of ERA.
LGY,
I don’t think he was referring to you…I do understand you, not too long ago i thought that he should be sent down to work on his repertoire and approach. There are growing pains involved here. If he can have 4 good starts for every 1 clunker he should be fine and we should be happy. The important thing is that he continues to develop his repertoire.
We are no talking about a vet with 6 or 7 seasons under his belt as a starter.
Malkin wins the Hart! Well deserved!
LGY, the point is he has developed a change, which was nowhere to be found on the map, and his curveball is developing also, he’s got his fastball back, he had basically a dead arm last season, and he has gone off on a run before today. Qualitatively, he has moved north. He’s not a finished product, he’s a guy with good stuff who is still learning how to pitch and is barely 26 years old, if he is yet.
Congratulations Evgeny Malkin. Co-best player in hockey. I have to eat something.
Evan Deluca’s in for SI. I would have rather have seen Rutckyj and DeLuca pitch, but I thought I was going to the Yankee game today. SI actually has 6 hits. Only down 3-2. Time to beat Brooklyn (Mets)!
primo, about Abe Almonte – he got slowed by injuries, but he was considered a guy with some serious tools. He was really taking off in Tampa when he went down. I kept asking tyanks, a great gal at Lohud who follows the Tampa team, for Almonte reports after he had come back, but I think he got hurt a second time, IIRC. He’s finally healthy, so perhaps the report is from when he was acclimating and trying to get back to full strength.
Abe is at the plate if you want to watch milb tv Trenton game!
Worked a 3-2 count but went down swinging.
Hughes is still relatively young, but he only has two years of team control left. How long do you live with a 5 ERA starter to be only able to reap the benefits for a short period of time?
If Hughes is going to continue to struggle so much with his development and be so prone to clunkers, I’d rather them live through these ups and downs with someone like Phelps who they can control cheaply for 5+ years.
And I’m just using ERA to keep it simple. His advanced stats are very poor as well (aside from xFIP which I personally do not like and even then he’s still below average)
Re advanced stats, Hughes’ FIP is actually worse than his ERA after today’s start. It’s up to 5.12.
It’s quite clear. Fans are not ready to let go of Phil Hughes. No stat simple nor advanced would sway their emotional attachment. If Pineda were healthy, Cashman would be fielding offers for Phil Hughes right now.
LGY
If Hughes is perceived as pitching poorly after a season with questions about his healthy, how much money would another team be willing to pay him?
Granted, he’d cost more than Phelps, but with serious questions about: Pineda ever making it back to being anything close to what he was, the two remaining B’s not yet ML ready, and with no apparent willingness to convert Joba back to being a starter despite the fact that he may be less of a health risk than Pineda, why isn’t Hughes worth sticking with?
JAP,
Sorry having some dinner…. Actually it was a Josh Norris post i read either this off season or at the end of last season….I hope you are right on him…I’ve tried several times to use MiLB TV but it always freezes on me…I never get to watch a game, the most i have seen when I am lucky is a couple of innings.
Primo, I watched some earlier video of Almonte and he sort of scoops the ball, so I can see where that might give you pause. What I have seen of him here, though is a very good eye and good contact swing, especially at pitches away, as he’s good at hitting them away and at protecting the outside part of the plate well. I am going to see him live again Friday (I have seen him live this year already).
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LGY, it’s not even a half season yet, so I’m not going to get bent out of shape about his FIP. Phelps cannot compete with Hughes’ fastball. No way. I like Phelps, who is more polished, but Hughes has a better arm. He’s not under control for much longer, that’s a different discussion. We can always extend him, and should.
Mesa drives in Zoilo. Tie game.
One year of Phil Hughes is likely worse less than one year of Edwin Jackson last year. But that’s no reason to stick with him. You can’t trade him for much. You can’t have him cheap.
At least with Phelps you can have him cheap.
LGY,
Could you explain the difference between xFIP and FIP?
In comes Peralta.
LGY, his FIP is inflated by his March/April stats; his xFIP was 4.18 before today and you don’t expect him to be giving up 4 HR a game, do you? Also, I do think quoting the numbers of an evolving young pitcher isn’t particularly productive because those stats don’t consider improvement/evolution of a young player. So, they really don’t mean that much/aren’t predictive of Hughes’s 2012 season.
And calling him a “5 ERA pitcher” is an intractable place to reason from, IMO because I’m supposed to infer that he always will be. He’s a pitcher in development.
“But that’s no reason to stick with him.”
There aren’t a ton of pitchers that have his FB.
“You can’t trade him for much. You can’t have him cheap.”
He is still relatively cheap at $3.5m. It’s a sunk cost now. If he is in fact pitching poorly, who is going to pay him much more than $3.5m?
“On the whole, Hughes has pitched poorly this season.”
Hughes has 14 starts this year. He’s given up 3 runs or less in 9 of them. The Yankees are 7 and 2 in those starts. The Yankees are 8 and 7 as a team when he pitches.
I would say on the whole he’s been really good and really bad. Each days performance while counting and adding up to his “overall bad Stats” only really count for one win or one loss. His bad outings, and his bad overall stats seem to carry the most weight with some.
I prefer to look at the 9 games of 3 runs or less.
“At least with Phelps you can have him cheap.”
And with the budget, every (million) dollar counts. They simply can’t justify investing 6+ mil in Hughes if he continues to pitch like this.
He is a poor fit for this park – unless he modifies his repertoire, it is hard to see him succeeding long term here. RH flyball pitchers who predominantly use their FB… really the worst kind of pitcher to have in NYS.
“I prefer to look at the 9 games of 3 runs or less.”
Earned runs or runs total?
The Minnesota game he gave up 6 but was only charged with 2 ERs
JAP,
I have no opinion on Abe Almonte. I was just commenting on some reports that i have read. I don’t have the luxury to be able to see them. I wish the MiLB would work so i can give you an educated opinion, but i can’t. I was just asking on what you think. If he has a compact swing and is able to protect the outside part of the plate and goes the other way then he is more advanced than what those comments i read. And the holes on his swing must be exaggerated.
No rush on Hughes either way, right?
“They simply can’t justify investing 6+ mil in Hughes if he continues to pitch like this.”
Again, if he is as bad as you say he is, they figure isn’t happening.
Rich
That’s a good question, but in this pitching environment I’m really not that concerned about filling out the rotation (why I was against THE trade) behind CC. If you went to Phelps for the rest of the season he could be a strong option for 2013 (ala Nova in 2010), you’d obviously have CC, and then Nova. I’m going to say at least one of Pettitte or Kuroda will be back. And beyond that there are plenty of free agent options. Top guns in Hamels/Greinke or filler like Edwin Jackson. Hopefully Banuelos or Warren could step in, if needed. And of course, they have to see what Pineda can give them.
I just think there may be a point where it’s worth exploring Phelps (or Warren or Mitchell) because all those guys are being blocked right now and the only guy it really makes sense for them to replace is Hughes. If one of those guys come through it would be a boon to the 2014 budget issue.
Sorry for the jumbled post. Trying to do this on my phone while walking and not trip
luis, food is always more important, even than baseball
. Enjoy!
Agree. Phelp’s fb cannot compare with Hughes’. And if Hughes is a poor fit for our park, so is Pineda who also is a RH flyball pitcher. They both had identical flyball rates in 2011: 44.8%.
*They had, should read.