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Yankees vs. Dickey

Posted by: Brian Heyman - Posted in Misc on Jun 24, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

It will be interesting to see how the homer-happy Yankees hit against the knuckleball belonging to the hottest pitcher in baseball. The Mets’ R.A. Dickey comes into the Subway Series finale tonight with his streak of two straight one-hitters. He’s 11-1 with a 2.00 ERA.

The 37-year-old righty owns a 0.18 ERA over his last six starts, fanning 63 and walking just five across 48 2/3 innings. He hasn’t allowed an earned run the last 42 2/3, just 6 1/3 shy of Dwight Gooden’s franchise record. Dickey has fanned 25 over his last two starts. He’s 6-0 with a 1.20 ERA in seven starts at Citi Field.

So what’s the strategy for the Yankees in their bid to hit that knuckler? Aim for the high ones.

“It has to be up,” Mark Teixeira said. “Whether it dances left or right, it’s going to be down most of the time at the end. So you have to make it up in the zone.

“Maybe take a little bit more of an uppercut swing. Because if you try to take too level of a swing against something that’s going straight down at the end, it’s going to be tough to hit.”

The switch-hitting Teixeira does something different against Dickey than what he did against now-retired Red Sox knuckleballer Tim Wakefield.

“I hit righty almost always against Wakefield,” Teixeira said. “But he was a different pitcher. R.A. throws that knuckleball a lot harder. He can mix in his fastball. And I don’t have Fenway. That’s one of the other reasons I hit right-handed against Wakefield because you hit an average fly ball in Fenway, it’s a double or a home run. But against R.A., I’ve always batted left-handed.”

Teixeira can remember when Dickey wasn’t a knuckleballer. Once upon a time, they were teammates in Texas.

“I’m so happy for R.A.,” Teixeira said. “We were rookies together (in 2003). He was a conventional pitcher, fastball, curveball, slider, change. … I think he was in the middle of, ‘OK, do I need to get better or am I not going to have a spot?’ So … they had him work with Charlie Hough the whole offseason. R.A. was very dedicated to the knuckleball. That’s a big leap of faith. I mean, a guy whose entire life has been as a conventional pitcher, to start throwing a knuckleball, he might have been close to 30 at the time, that’s a tough thing to do. He took his lumps early on. Unfortunately he got designated by the Rangers, and he’s made an unbelievable comeback.”

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408 Responses to “Yankees vs. Dickey”

  1. blake June 24th, 2012 at 9:06 am

    “LoMo? Is that Logan Morrison, the current LF/1B for the Marlins?”

    yea….down year….Miami is close to falling out of the race….and he’s never really saw eye to eye with management down there…..he can hit….knee is a concern though.

  2. blake June 24th, 2012 at 9:09 am

    yall see where Papeldouche said he’d give whoever hit a walk off homer he’d give them $5,000 bucks and then Thome did it….

  3. Yankee Trader June 24th, 2012 at 9:13 am

    Thanks Blake-

    Austinmac-

    Quentin was a RF’er the last 2 years with the White Sox. I’m not a stat geek, but would he be above average in RF, I’m not sure. Biggest question with him is always health. Stats attached, batting and fielding:

    http://www.baseball-reference......ca01.shtml

  4. austinmac June 24th, 2012 at 9:17 am

    YT,

    Thanks for the Quentin info. I have read he is not a great outfielder, but NYS right field is very small and that might work. It doesn’t solve next year’s hole in right, however.

  5. Triple Short of a Cycle June 24th, 2012 at 9:18 am

    I for one will be watching the game tonight will the volume turned off. Too much Dickey love for my tastes

  6. Bret The Hitman June 24th, 2012 at 9:19 am

    Quentin should be the main target because a controllable young OF will cost the Yankees too many prospects after they just dipped into the farm to deal off top prospect Jesus Montero along with Austin Jackson and Ian Kennedy before him.

    Quentin being a rental makes him more attractive as a trade option IMHO. And he’s likely a more dangerous hitter than any long-term solution who might sneak onto the market such as Morrison or Gordon.

    I don’t even think the elite young OF’ers are necessarily going to be more productive than Quentin right now. I’m talking about Heyward and J. Upton. It’s quite possible Quentin will post a better year than both. The thing is, being a rental, he won’t cost nearly as much. You won’t have to trade the farm for Quentin.

    The Pads need help all over. I’m thinking a Xavier Nady type deal that sends bottom rotation arms like Mitchell and Warren and maybe some position players like Joseph or Murphy.

  7. Yankee Trader June 24th, 2012 at 9:20 am

    Teixeira on Dickey-
    “Maybe take a little bit more of an uppercut swing. Because if you try to take too level of a swing against something that’s going straight down at the end, it’s going to be tough to hit.”

    Well Tex, you have that uppercut swing down pat, so I expect a lot of doubles off the wall or homers from you tonight, rather than that pop-out with RISP! :)

    BTW-
    Why not bat right-handed all the time in Fenway?

  8. blake June 24th, 2012 at 9:20 am

    Id treat Quentin like a straight rental if they got him…..hed play LF if Gardner couldnt get back and if Gardner does get back he could rotate through DH and the corners……probably play LF against lefties some……

  9. Bret The Hitman June 24th, 2012 at 9:22 am

    I picture Quentin in the same role envisioned for Carlos Beltran, just as Blake stated – primary DH and roaming corner OF. He would be a difference maker in a lineup. He would pay dividends immediately like David Justice. He’s a bat that can help nudge the team a little further into the post season.

  10. austinmac June 24th, 2012 at 9:25 am

    Quentin has a higher lifetime OPS against righties. He is not ideal as a platoon. If they were to get him, play him.

  11. blake June 24th, 2012 at 9:26 am

    The biggest worry facing Dickey isnt even losing tonight…..its screwing the offense up for days afterwards…..

    Hopefully he wont be able to locate tonight and they can get him out of there early…..the Yanks are a patient bunch and they have experience with Wakefield who though isnt as good as Dickey….should help Id think.

  12. Bret The Hitman June 24th, 2012 at 9:27 am

    Most definitely. If we are so lucky to have Quentin in this lineup, Ibanez becomes a pinch hitter/emergency OF. Quentin is an everyday guy. They passed on Beltran and they need to do something to try to make up for it. I’m not saying he’s Beltran but he’s a decent consolation prize. Passing on Beltran was the dumbest move of the offseason.

  13. blake June 24th, 2012 at 9:28 am

    Quentin does have a reverse split…..but you coukd probably still play him against some tough lefties inbplace of Gardner…..if Gardy even gets back. If they traded for Quentin then it probably would mean the end of the line for Jonesy Id think unless Gardner is out for the season.

  14. MTU June 24th, 2012 at 9:29 am

    “If it’s high let it fly”.

    That’s the conventional wisdom against a KB’er.

    My advice would be for CC to shut the Mets out for 9 innings.

    ;)

  15. Yankee Trader June 24th, 2012 at 9:29 am

    OK, I’m sold. Go get me some Quentin. Remember that the Padres might wait until new ownership has a foothold. And he’s owed the remainder of his $7.025M contract this year.

  16. Bret The Hitman June 24th, 2012 at 9:30 am

    This hero ball one dimensional lineup is a bad match for Dickey. I wonder if Joe will do something entirely unconventional and start the hungry AAAA players like Wise, Nix, Stewart and bench players like Chavez.

  17. blake June 24th, 2012 at 9:31 am

    “Passing on Beltran was the dumbest move of the offseason.”

    I wanted them to sign him and said so all winter…..but to be fair when the decision was made…..they still had Montero…..they didnt know Andy was coming back…..and they had that money ear marked for Kuroda.

    Now had they known they were tradinf Montero…..and had they known Andy was cominf back…..then yeabit woukd have neen really dumb to not give Beltran 2/24……hed be their 2nd best hitter.

  18. Yankee Trader June 24th, 2012 at 9:31 am

    If Dickey pitches another one-hitter, let it be a Yankee homer, for a 1-0 win after the 9 scoreless innings from CC. CC should hit the homer!

  19. blake June 24th, 2012 at 9:34 am

    My guess is the Padres would ask for either Phelps or Hughes for Quentin……and Id need more than just him to do that.

  20. Bret The Hitman June 24th, 2012 at 9:35 am

    Trader,

    Say the Pads GM demands David Phelps, Corbin Joseph and JR Murphy for Quentin…

    Do you pull the trigger thinking you have a David Justice on your hands?

  21. MTU June 24th, 2012 at 9:36 am

    Blake-

    No friggin’ way am I trading Hughes or Phelps for Quentin.

    Even if it was Quentin Tarantino.

    :)

  22. Villa Nova-Ya June 24th, 2012 at 9:36 am

    Why do people keep ignoring the fact that Beltran preferred to stay in the NL? (Star Ledger article – very comprehensive – published when St. Louis was in town playing the Mets)

    Unless he did not get offers from NL contending teams, he was not going to any AL team.

    But even with that, Beltran is having a wonderful year, but his health was far from a given and it is obvious to even the slightly more than casual observer that the Yankees were not going to spend longish term money on players with high-ish risk.

  23. Bret The Hitman June 24th, 2012 at 9:37 am

    Pretty certain the Pads would value Phelps over Hughes. With Hughes they only gain one additional year to compete. That team is on the 5-year plan.

  24. Yankee Trader June 24th, 2012 at 9:38 am

    I attached this article earlier about the current woes of the Yankees with RISP. You might enjoy it over breakfast, or not! :)

    “The team’s .218 batting average with runners in scoring position ranks as the second worst franchise mark since 1952, only two points better than the 1967 club, which lost 90 games. ”

    http://www.captainsblog.info/2.....lem/16156/

  25. MTU June 24th, 2012 at 9:38 am

    Want to take a chance on a Beltran-type ?

    See if Sizemore is functional, and what the price might be.

    ;)

  26. austinmac June 24th, 2012 at 9:40 am

    I was also among the get Beltran group. He would really be the best Yankee hitter thus far. The guy can play.

    I have a feeling the Yankees still believe their offense is fine. Good grief, I hope not, but I get no sense otherwise from any word or deed. Cashman has believed in the offense for years. I hope he sees the real decline.

  27. Bret The Hitman June 24th, 2012 at 9:40 am

    I’m not 100% sure but I think Carlos Quentin hits righties because he hits to opposite field. He might flourish in YS with the short porch in right. Not to mention that he would be surrounded by better hitters than he was in Chicago. If he can stay healthy, he could be someone opposing pitchers fear with RISP.

  28. blake June 24th, 2012 at 9:41 am

    Ih dont really know why Beltran has this injury prone tag…..aside fron the microfracture deal hes been really durable his entire career. He may have wanted to stay in the NL but its also been rumored for years that hed love to play for thr Yankees.

    I get why they didnt go after him….just eish they has

  29. Bret The Hitman June 24th, 2012 at 9:42 am

    If the Yankees were as smart as the Cards, Berkman and Beltran might be Yanks instead.

  30. austinmac June 24th, 2012 at 9:43 am

    YT,

    1968 was the year of Gibson’s 1.12 ERA and the cause to lower the mound. So, in reality, compared to the rest of baseball, I think this year’s RISP is lower. I did note it was 20 points below the second worst team this year. That is remarkable.

    And it’s not improving.

  31. blake June 24th, 2012 at 9:43 am

    The difference between Beltran and Sizemore is that Grady really is made of porcelain though…..

  32. Yankee Trader June 24th, 2012 at 9:43 am

    Trader,

    Say the Pads GM demands David Phelps, Corbin Joseph and JR Murphy for Quentin…
    ———————————-
    No. He’s a FA making $7.025M this year and remember unless you resign a FA within the 5 day window after the end of the WS, you get no draft compensation now. So if he’s a pure rental and the Yankees are taking on the entire remainder of his salary, the costliest player on the Padres, I’m not giving them top talent, especially a 3-1 trade. Phelps is a keeper right now.

  33. Bret The Hitman June 24th, 2012 at 9:45 am

    I think you have to give up David Phelps for Quentin. Remember David Justice wasn’t exactly free for the Yankees. They coughed up RHP Jake Westbrook along with RHP Zach Day and OF Ricky Ledee.

  34. Bret The Hitman June 24th, 2012 at 9:45 am

    I think Phelps and Westbrook are comparable.

  35. blake June 24th, 2012 at 9:46 am

    The cards got lucky with Berkman…..Beltran however showed he could still play last year and 2/24 for him was a no brainer for that club…..I said it in January but that was the best value deal signed ladt winter.

  36. Villa Nova-Ya June 24th, 2012 at 9:47 am

    He’s not injury prone, but he has had knee problems, significant ones, and he did miss a great deal of time. (I like Beltran a lot, and if they had been able to get him, it would have been a nice pick-up, but at some point you have to realize that from either one side or the other it was a no-go)

    blake, also, we have no idea whether or not they casually asked Boras about Beltran at some point. I’m sure they had a lot of things on the table that got shot down for one reason or another.

    I do think he wanted to play for the Yankees the year that George said he wanted Johnson instead of Beltran so they got Randy Johnson.

    Perhaps Beltran wanted to make sure he got to play the outfield and not get “stuck” being a DH most of the time, which I’d bet would be would be the first thing most AL teams would do.

  37. blake June 24th, 2012 at 9:48 am

    The Padres would have to include something of value with Quentin before Id give them Phelps……not trading 6 years of pitcher control for 3 months of Quentin straight up.

  38. Villa Nova-Ya June 24th, 2012 at 9:48 am

    Also, almost every player who hits FA is rumored to want to play for the Yankees.

  39. Bret The Hitman June 24th, 2012 at 9:49 am

    I’m fairly certain Beltran brought the Cards offer to the Yankees or asked for the same 2/24 from them. I remember reading about it in the offseason.

  40. blake June 24th, 2012 at 9:50 am

    “Perhaps Beltran wanted to make sure he got to play the outfield and not get “stuck” being a DH most of the time, which I’d bet would be would be the first thing most AL teams would do.”

    Perhaps…..the Cards needed him more for sure…..my thing was that they got him pretty affordabley…..

  41. Bret The Hitman June 24th, 2012 at 9:53 am

    The thing is, there will be plenty of teams in on Carlos Quentin as he’ll be the top hitting OF bat on the market.

    If the Yankees relinquish David Phelps, their offer likely trumps those other teams who will be scrambling for offense. Many of them will be willing to overpay slightly. At the time of the Xavier Nady deal, he was quite expensive. Tabata was a top prospect rated much higher than Phelps currently is.

  42. austinmac June 24th, 2012 at 9:54 am

    Their is no way, of course, to know whether Beltran was signable. Our point is they should have tried. They didn’t. The offense is middle of the pack. I would like to see efforts to improve it rather than the obligatory “the offense is fine” from Cashman.

  43. blake June 24th, 2012 at 9:55 am

    Not all that familar with the Padres system…..but if they had a decent SS prospecr theyd part with in addition to quentin then Id consider Phelps for him……I like Phelps a lot and would need a prettu good return to move him.

  44. Bret The Hitman June 24th, 2012 at 9:57 am

    I wish the Padres would take Betances for Quentin but I highly doubt they would settle for a question mark. They have to get surefire major league production for Quentin. He’s one of their few assets.

  45. Yankee Trader June 24th, 2012 at 9:58 am

    Is there an outfielder out there that can do a better job with RISP, who might be available from a team unlikely to be in the playoffs this year?

  46. Bret The Hitman June 24th, 2012 at 10:01 am

    Why look further than Quentin? He’s likely going to be the top OF bat on the trade market this year. Cashman needs to be aggressive like he was with David Justice and go for the best hitter available.

  47. Villa Nova-Ya June 24th, 2012 at 10:03 am

    austinmac, you really have no idea whether or not they inquired about Beltran.

  48. MTU June 24th, 2012 at 10:04 am

    I’m not trading Phelps for Quentin.

  49. Bronx Jeers June 24th, 2012 at 10:04 am

    Not all Yankee fans are the salt of the earth.

    http://network.yardbarker.com/.....idget=true

  50. blake June 24th, 2012 at 10:06 am

    I wish the Padres would take Betances for Quentin but I highly doubt they would settle for a question mark”

    A lot of folks will disagree with me but Id rather trade Betances than Phelps…..Betances has more upside but his floor is ex baseball player to be honest……Phelps will be a big league starter at some point if he stays healthy.

  51. blake June 24th, 2012 at 10:07 am

    “I’m not trading Phelps for Quentin.”

    I wouldnt either straight up…..

  52. Bret The Hitman June 24th, 2012 at 10:09 am

    Let’s say the Padres insist on David Phelps…

    Would you rather demand 1 year of Carlos Quentin or 5 years of Cameron Maybin (40 SB in 2011) at 5 million AAV?

    Maybin is very similar to Brett Gardner but he’s a guy you can slide into CF and reload the farm by trading Granderson to an offense-starved franchise like Atlanta or Washington.

    Maybin doesn’t do much for 2012 (other than fill in for Gardner if Gardner is done) but he helps plan for 2014 and 189.

  53. Tar June 24th, 2012 at 10:11 am

    Fun Facts

    Yankees RISP

    534(AB)–116(H)–23 (2B)–22(HR)–183(RBI)–116(K)– .217.324-.387-.711

    Comparison

    TX

    543(AB)–160(H)–29(2B)–20(HR)–235(RBI)–87(K)– .296 .371 .482 .853

    BUT………..

    TX 44-28
    Yankees 42-28

    :shock:

    Even if the team is left as is ( I doubt it) When the Yankees start hitting with RISP they are going to go on a roll of epic proportions.

  54. Bret The Hitman June 24th, 2012 at 10:13 am

    Tar,

    Interesting stats. That’s why I feel Quentin is the missing link. He could be the spark that ignites the Yankees hitting with RISP. There is no greater need on this 2012 team.

  55. blake June 24th, 2012 at 10:14 am

    Maybin is really talented but hes got a long swing and the Padres probably will want to keep him and hope he figures it out

  56. Yankee Trader June 24th, 2012 at 10:15 am

    Do the Yankees want/need an outfielder who can get the run home with RISP?

    Quentin’s limited numbers this year, then look at more extensive numbers for 2009 thru 2011:

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/.....os-quentin

    .200 BA with RISP; last three seasons .272
    .000 BA with 2 outs RISP; last three seasons .229

    Does someone have access to the leaders this year in hitting with RISP. Find me a player, [outfielder] on a team going nowhere who might be ready to deal right now

  57. Tar June 24th, 2012 at 10:17 am

    Bret
    Honestly I don’t know much about him except for the little I saw him play with the Sox. I did think he had a good bat though.

    RE: RISP I thought the K’s were interesting– 1 for every hit. That is the worst in the league. They need to start putting the ball in play more.

  58. Bret The Hitman June 24th, 2012 at 10:18 am

    Blake,

    Not necessarily though if the Padres want to get out from under their 25 million dollar payout to Maybin. Phelps for 6 years cost controlled might be worth far more to them.

    From the yankees perspective, getting a CF in place of Granderson allows the team to reload the farm, stay out of another albatross contract to a player heading deep into his 30′s and free up some money for a free agent corner OF like Melky Cabrera.

    The only problem is Maybin does nothing for the 2012 RISP woes. If Gardner is done for the year though, Maybin makes more sense than a rental.

    Maybin is definitely a buy-low guy.

  59. Bret The Hitman June 24th, 2012 at 10:21 am

    Trader,

    .272 with RISP over 3 seasons is better than what we have and you have to figure a possible lightening-in-the-bottle situation if Quentin thrives in YS surrounded by better hitters.

    Both David Justice and Xavier Nady tore up the ball when they first arrived.

  60. 86w183 June 24th, 2012 at 10:22 am

    I love Maybin’s physical gifts. It’s very puzzling why he hasn’t developed better.

    It’s amazing how many times Beltran supposedly wants to be a Yankee and yet it never happens. I don’t know if they ever talked seriously, but I did once hear Beltran interviewed and he expressed nothing but disdain for the DH.

  61. Yankee Trader June 24th, 2012 at 10:23 am

    “Other than stolen bases, the only significant difference between the 2011 and 2012 editions of the Yankees’ offense has been the ability to convert scoring opportunities, so it stands to reason that deficiency has played a significant role in the over one-half run per game decline in production.”

    5.35 runs/game in 2011 vs 4.75 runs/game so far this year

    http://www.captainsblog.info/2.....lem/16156/

  62. blake June 24th, 2012 at 10:24 am

    You never know though at the deadline…..the bidding can get out of hand sometimes…..the Giants gave up a really good pitching prosoect for Beltran last year and have nothing to show for it.

  63. blake June 24th, 2012 at 10:25 am

    Id trade Phelps for Maybin…..dont know if the Padres would.

  64. LGY June 24th, 2012 at 10:27 am

    Beltran brought his 2/24 offer to the Yankees before signing with the Cards. He has wanted to be a Yankee for a long time.

  65. 86w183 June 24th, 2012 at 10:27 am

    SDP has really poor pitching in AAA so a package of arms might be attractive to them.

    Personally I’d rather see if there’s a package that gets me Carlos Gonzalez.

    I know he’s be really expensive in $$$ and prospects, but top talent usually is.

  66. blake June 24th, 2012 at 10:27 am

    “I love Maybin’s physical gifts. It’s very puzzling why he hasn’t developed better.”

    Long swing…..sometimes it only takes a small adjustment for a guy with talwnt to take off though…..look at AJax this year…..and Klong’s real forte seems to be shortening long swings….

  67. blake June 24th, 2012 at 10:28 am

    2/24 is a steal for Beltran’s production….

  68. Bret The Hitman June 24th, 2012 at 10:29 am

    That’s what I thought. But it’s possible what 86 said impacted the Yankees ultimate decision to reject the 2/24 request from Beltran. It’s possible the 2/24 request came with a stipulation that Beltran would not be a DH. With Gardner and Swisher, there was no place for Beltran in 2012 and maybe he didn’t want to wait for 2013.

  69. 86w183 June 24th, 2012 at 10:29 am

    LGY —

    You don’t know that.

    If he really wanted to be a Yankee he would have been one long ago. He just wanted the Yanks to meet or beat his best offer… hardly the same thing.

  70. Bret The Hitman June 24th, 2012 at 10:30 am

    Blake,

    Well Long should take a long look at Arod’s swing. It’s longer than the 7th inning stretch.

  71. LGY June 24th, 2012 at 10:30 am

    @JonHeymanCBS: hear beltran offered to go to #yankees for the deal he got w/ cards ($26M, 2 yrs). but like 7 yrs ago, they declined.

  72. Yankee Trader June 24th, 2012 at 10:31 am

    86w183

    Rockies might be more inclined to deal Cuddyer than Cargo for pitching.

  73. Tar June 24th, 2012 at 10:32 am

    “Does someone have access to the leaders this year in hitting with RISP. Find me a player, [outfielder] on a team going nowhere who might be ready to deal right now”
    YT

    Span

    career RISP

    .299 .374 .434 .808

    This year is very similar

  74. Bret The Hitman June 24th, 2012 at 10:33 am

    If the Yankees can get Willingham for the price of Quentin, I’d say go for it. Willingham is a dangerous hitter.

    Quentin, Willingham, Maybin – all realistic targets that come with their own pluses and minuses.

  75. Bret The Hitman June 24th, 2012 at 10:34 am

    I don’t think Span is sexy enough for the Yankees. He’s not their kind of hitter.

  76. 86w183 June 24th, 2012 at 10:36 am

    OMG if Jon Heyman “heard” it it must be gospel

  77. blake June 24th, 2012 at 10:38 am

    Arod’s swing isnt really long….hes just getting started late a lot of times

    Willingham will cost a lot more than Quentin Id think.

  78. LGY June 24th, 2012 at 10:41 am

    86w183 June 24th, 2012 at 10:36 am
    OMG if Jon Heyman “heard” it it must be gospel

    ——

    Considering Heyman’s connection to Boras and the fact that Beltran is a Boras client what reason would we have to doubt his report? What exactly would his motivation be to make this up after Beltran already signed with the Cards?

    Heyman is terrible at analysis, but he undeniably has great sources in MLB.

  79. Yankee Trader June 24th, 2012 at 10:41 am

    Any guesses which regular leads the Yankees this year with RISP for a .273 BA?
    The worst with a .141 BA? It’s not Derek Jeter the only other regular with a batting average >.225 with RISP.

  80. Bret The Hitman June 24th, 2012 at 10:41 am

    I’d say the Twins would demand David Phelps + Dellin Betances + Joseph/Murphy (pick one).

    Willingham is signed through 2014 though. 7 million AAV.

  81. Tar June 24th, 2012 at 10:42 am

    Willingham has nice RISP as well. IDK who is the better player?

    Span I do know can at least play CF.

  82. Bret The Hitman June 24th, 2012 at 10:42 am

    Trader,

    Ibanez.

  83. Yankee Trader June 24th, 2012 at 10:46 am

    Thanks Tar

    Denard Span might work if the Yankees are planning to make Gardner a 4th OF’er upon his return. Better arm than Grandy in CF? If so move Grandy to LF?

  84. 86w183 June 24th, 2012 at 10:46 am

    Span is a more expensive Gardner. Not a long term option.

    I prefer Willingham too. That was the deal of the off-season getting him for just $ 21 M for three years. Cuddyer is older and costs more, but is certainly more available.

  85. RMS June 24th, 2012 at 10:49 am

    Yankees should have listened to Alex when he said they should sign Melky. Apparently, Alex is a good scout.

  86. 86w183 June 24th, 2012 at 10:49 am

    Heyman probably has no motivation, but Boras certainly cold have reasons for trying to paint the Yankees a certain way. Heyman didn’t write is fact, he wrote it as a rumor. When a media guy doesn’t back up his own story I don’t buy it.

    Why would Beltran, who refuses to be a DH go to an AL team for the same $$$? Makes no sense to me.

  87. Yankee Trader June 24th, 2012 at 10:50 am

    No it’s not Ibanez who’s at the bottom with the rest. It’s happy go lucky, I’m not getting another Yankee contract, so what the heck- Nick Swisher is the regular leading the Yankees in BA with RISP.

    Now the worst is …………..?

  88. Tar June 24th, 2012 at 10:50 am

    After checking Willingham is definitely a better bat than Span.

    Span gives you that better D and speed, ala Gardner, but costs more.

    I am leaning towards Willingham myself. What would the difference be in price between those two players.

  89. Tar June 24th, 2012 at 10:51 am

    “Now the worst is ”

    Got to be Cano.

  90. 86w183 June 24th, 2012 at 10:51 am

    Just went through a number of FA stories from the off-season.

    Did not see single Beltran/Yankees story or reference. Plenty about the Red Sox, Blue Jays. Indians, Cardinals and Giants, however.

    FWIW

  91. Bret The Hitman June 24th, 2012 at 10:52 am

    Hard to believe Ibanez is now batting .237.

  92. Bret The Hitman June 24th, 2012 at 10:53 am

    Whatever the case with Beltran, I weep when I look at him in that Cardinals lineup. That whole entire lineup is hitting over .300. I’m very jealous.

  93. Bret The Hitman June 24th, 2012 at 10:56 am

    The Twins really like to groom strike throwers. David Phelps seems like their type of target. There might be a fit there with Willingham.

  94. yankeefeminista June 24th, 2012 at 10:57 am

    We obviously chose Swisher over Beltran.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/new-yo.....by-beltran

  95. LGY June 24th, 2012 at 10:59 am

    Makes no sense that the guy who was willing to take a substantial discount to play for the Yankees 7 years ago wanted to sign with them??

    There were no rumors about Beltran to the Yanks because the Yanks didn’t show interest and turned down his offer. Silly discussion, later everyone.

  96. Yankee Trader June 24th, 2012 at 11:00 am

    Cano is the worst so far with RISP.

    Josh Willingham is 33, having a terrific year with better stats at home than away. Apparenly the Twins like his contract.

  97. Bret The Hitman June 24th, 2012 at 11:02 am

    My trade deadline wish list (in order):

    Carlos Quentin
    Josh Willingham
    David DeJesus

  98. Tar June 24th, 2012 at 11:02 am

    I couldn’t resist any longer I checked. What is interesting and I know (REALLY SSS) but Gardner and Nunez— early on were the hot RISP hitters.

    I wonder if it’s as simple as losing those two spark plugs has somehow effected the whole line-up?

  99. 86w183 June 24th, 2012 at 11:04 am

    It’s a “silly discussion” only because you keep insisting that it’s a fact rather than something Jon Heyman “heard”.

    I too would have taken Swisher, one year, $ 10.25 M over Beltran, two years, $ 26 M plus several potential bonuses.

  100. JM June 24th, 2012 at 11:12 am

    Sox just put Laptops on DL with lower back strain….

    http://articles.boston.com/201.....d-list-era

  101. Yankee Trader June 24th, 2012 at 11:14 am

    I couldn’t resist any longer I checked. What is interesting and I know (REALLY SSS) but Gardner and Nunez— early on were the hot RISP hitters.

    I wonder if it’s as simple as losing those two spark plugs has somehow effected the whole line-up?
    ——————————–
    Tar- Definitely. Without them the Yankees are ranking near the bottom in the AL in SB’s. There’s nobody to create havoc on the basepaths in a close game in the late innings. Would the Yankees have pulled out more wins when down by a run going into the ninth with Gardner or Nunez at 1st with no outs? Who besides Jeter and Grandy can go 1st to 3rd on a hit to RF?

  102. randy l. June 24th, 2012 at 11:16 am

    “Id trade Phelps for Maybin…..dont know if the Padres would.”

    blake -

    how about pineda?

    i wonder what could the yankees get for him.

    oh never mind

    yeah, go with phelps

    they’d get more.

  103. Yankee Trader June 24th, 2012 at 11:18 am

    Before I go, on a good note, David Aardsma pitched 2 scoreless last night, striking out 3, expected back 7/20.

    Until later.

    Have a great day.

  104. blake June 24th, 2012 at 11:21 am

    I dont want to trade Pineda…..youd be selling low most likely and now that they have him you might as well see what he becomes…..he still could be a top of the rotation guy if the rehab goes well.

    I wouldn’t have signed Beltran to replace Swisher…..I would have signed him to add to Swisher and the rest of the lineup…..especially if they knew they were shopping Montero……but oh well….

    Hope Dickey cant find the strike zone with the knucker tonight…..

  105. blake June 24th, 2012 at 11:22 am

    Cafardo On Garza, Lowrie, Greinke, Red Sox, Liriano

    By Zach Links [June 24 at 9:22am CST]

    The rest of the baseball world is waiting for the Yankees to get old, but so far that hasn’t happened, writes Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe. “They’ve been saying that ever since I’ve been around,” said Yankees GM Brian Cashman. “They said it after 2001. They said it after we were reshuffling in 2003, and in 2004, my therapist said I wasn’t supposed to talk about it. After 2009, we can’t be winning with older guys…So I’ve always heard it. As long as we’re winning, people can keep saying it.” Here’s more from today’s column..

    About six teams have been in contact with the Cubs consistently regarding Matt Garza: the Braves, Tigers, Cardinals, Red Sox, Jays, and Royals. Epstein is looking for a great package to part with Garza as he is the club’s biggest chip. However, teams have some concern over whether the pitcher can control his emotions. The Tigers could be heavily in the mix for Astros shortstop Jed Lowrie and Detroit would likely move him to second to fill a need. Cafardo wouldn’t be shocked if he is on the Phillies’ radar as well. Houston has a few other chips in Brett Myers, Brandon Lyon, and Wandy Rodriguez that could help contenders.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com

  106. blake June 24th, 2012 at 11:24 am

    I think the Braves should go get Garza….they need a veteran starter and they have the chips Theo is looking for….

  107. RadioKev June 24th, 2012 at 11:37 am

    I don’t think injured players ever get traded…

  108. GreenBeret7 June 24th, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    David Dejesus has just filed for divorce from Bret The Hitman and named Carlos Quentin as co-respondent for alienation of affection..

  109. G. Love June 24th, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    What was fascinating about yesterdays win was 2 million bucks in combined salary (Ibanez and Chavez) provided the offense.

    You couldn’t write this stuff if you tried.

    If those 2 guys don’t play hero ball, we’re on a 4 game losing streak following a 10 game win streak.

    The offense on this team is a problem. The guys making the most money are not getting the job done with runners on.

    As easy as that winning streak looked a week ago, I feel we can settle into a losing streak just as easy with this offense.

    Thanks goodness for the 2 million dollar bench players who bailed the team out.

    It was a great win and they needed it. Going 4 straight losses into a knuckleballer would not have been ideal.

    The Red Sox are heating up although their starting pitchers are all taking their mid season vacations. That team can hit though. If they had resigned Papelbum and kept Bard setting him up they’d be contending this season.

    I truly hope we get a bat somewhere. Someone needs to come in and get some hits with RISP to take the pressure off the guys who are paid the most to do it.

    And would someone please tell Russell Martin to stop swinging from his heels? He looked like a little leaguer yesterday. If anyone should be a contact doubles hitter, it’s him.

  110. GreenBeret7 June 24th, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    If Quentin wasn’t a ballplayer, he’d be working for Oscar Mayer. His glove is the same one he used in Little League because it has seen so few baseballs.

  111. Villa Nova-Ya June 24th, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    Even Joe G mentioned Nunez not being there in his post game last night. He and Gardner proved a dynamic that you don’t necessarily appreciate until its not there. And also Cervelli had a knack for the ty hit as well

  112. Villa Nova-Ya June 24th, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    **provided not proved

  113. GreenBeret7 June 24th, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    Yanks have released a lot of lower level players today including Brandon Braboy and Garrison Lassiter (Tampa Yanks shortstop). They are close to signing their 18th round draft pick. Daniel Burawa has been put on the 60 day DL.

  114. RadioKev June 24th, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    http://www.nj.com/yankees/inde.....witterfeed

    Another article on Yankees vs the knuckleball. This time by Marc Craig. Some pretty good quotes in there.

  115. Villa Nova-Ya June 24th, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    G love

    Even during the win streak it was a different player or players who were helPful in getting the wins. It takes a village.

  116. DONNYBROOK June 24th, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    - YANKEES BULLPEN REPORT -

    (1) BOONE LOGAN – Appeared in 5 of the previous 7 games.

    (2) CLAY RAPADA – Appeared in 3 straight games.

    (3) CODY EPPLEY – Appeared in 3 straight games.

  117. blake June 24th, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    I think this team could win the WS as is…..but theyd really have to pitch and Cano IMO would have to have a big postseason ….hes their one hitter that could just go off against any pitcher…..there isnt a dominant team right now in either league with the Rangers pitching issues.

    I do think the Yabkees could maximize their chances by adding abother good hitter that can play the outfield corners

  118. Bo knows June 24th, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    - YANKEES BULLPEN REPORT -

    (1) BOONE LOGAN – Appeared in 5 of the previous 7 games.

    (2) CLAY RAPADA – Appeared in 3 straight games.

    (3) CODY EPPLEY – Appeared in 3 straight games.

    ——————–
    And they’re all thriving – amazing, isn’t it.

  119. Rich in NJ June 24th, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    “…..but theyd really have to pitch and Cano IMO would have to have a big postseason”

    I suspect they would also need something from A-Rod or Tex.

    This won’t get it done:

    A: .111 .261 .111 .372
    T: .167 .286 .278 .563

  120. Villa Nova-Ya June 24th, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    Here’s the thing about the WS. sometimes the “hero” is the last guy you’d guess.

    But it would be nice if the guys you think should be the stars are.

  121. GreenBeret7 June 24th, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    Looks like Puig has come down with a case of attitude. Don’t look for him to get signed before the signing rules change.

    •Cuban outfielder Yasiel Puig was set to have workouts for teams today for scouts in Mexico but wound up being a no-show, writes Ben Badler of Baseball America. The 21-year-old has apparently changed representation and will now audition for clubs in Cancun over the next week.

  122. mick June 24th, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    - YANKEES BULLPEN REPORT -

    (1) BOONE LOGAN – Appeared in 5 of the previous 7 games.

    (2) CLAY RAPADA – Appeared in 3 straight games.

    (3) CODY EPPLEY – Appeared in 3 straight games.

    ——————–
    And they’re all thriving – amazing, isn’t it.
    =============================
    Does Cash get the credit for this?
    We can throw in Chavez and Ibanez, too….any others?

  123. GreenBeret7 June 24th, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    I wonder if Puig always wanted to be a yankee like Carlos Beltran?

  124. Rich in NJ June 24th, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    “Does Cash get the credit for this?”

    Yes, many of us who rightly criticism his serial mistakes have given him credit for his low-cost bullpen acquisition strategy (although Logan was not low-cost) as well as Girardi’s ability to deploy them well.

  125. mick June 24th, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    Is this a big game for other than the “marquee” pitching matchup?
    That it is for the series, tho we have taken the season series.
    That it is on prime time ESPN?
    B/c the media says it is.

  126. mick June 24th, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    So Cash gets credit for every Yankee player who comes here.
    But you subtract every pitcher that didn’t work out and the Montero deal tips him into a negative status?
    Oh, and let’s not forget Randy Winn…

  127. Cashmoney June 24th, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    mick, no game is a big game in July. I do wish to watch the game a tad early. but it’s a moot point.

  128. mick June 24th, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    mick, no game is a big game in July. I do wish to watch the game a tad early. but it’s a moot point.
    ===================================
    It’s only big if Dickey throws the Yankee bats into a funk that lasts an extended period.

  129. Tyler June 24th, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    I don’t know if the Yanks will win tonight but I think they’ll push a few across against Dickey. He throws a different type of knuckleball but the Yanks are probably the most experienced knuckleball hitting team in the league after facing Wakefield for so long. I’m not totally in love with this lineup but they can sure strike fast. I think Dickey leaves a couple hanging and the Yanks punish them.

  130. mick June 24th, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    Dickey gets off to a fast start and now he is the greatest pitcher that ever lived.

  131. Rich in NJ June 24th, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    They really need a big effort from CC (and the defense) to force Dickey to be at his best.

  132. mick June 24th, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    mick, no game is a big game in July. I do wish to watch the game a tad early. but it’s a moot point.
    ===============================
    watch it tomorrow on dvr, that’s what i’m doing…at least after midnight.

  133. mick June 24th, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    whats wrong with our defense?

  134. Tyler June 24th, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    mick-

    I agree that the hype is probably a little too much about Dickey but back to back 1 hitters are extremely rare in mlb history and very impressive. He’s a great story but Ubaldo Jimenez was once 15-1 at the allstar break too.

  135. mick June 24th, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    i think the Yanks will kill the chicken tonight and CC will get better…

  136. mick June 24th, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    I agree that the hype is probably a little too much
    ==============================
    the best part of it, not that we need it, is that the rest of the NY hating country will have to root for a NY team.

  137. Cashmoney June 24th, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    It be interesting to see if Martin be back if hit 200 all season since G and C are big fan of him. Personally, I like a catcher with strong D , but with his putrid offense, I sincerely hope i don’t have to see him as our main backup next year period, but especially at a premium price he may ask for.

  138. Cashmoney June 24th, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    backstop.

  139. Rich in NJ June 24th, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    “whats wrong with our defense?”

    It’s not very good.

  140. austinmac June 24th, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    Mick,

    The rest of the country doesn’t hate New York. Most hate the Yankees because they win. Their are very few non-New Yorkers who give a second thought to the Mets. I know very many people who love New York and many others who will not forget what they have endured.

  141. mick June 24th, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    “whats wrong with our defense?”

    It’s not very good.
    ===============
    989 fielding %, best in AL
    29 errors, least in AL

  142. Cashmoney June 24th, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    The Yankees in some way are the team version of Arod, rich and handsome and wins all the time, it’s understandable if there is some penis envy.

  143. mick June 24th, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    Yanks are the team they love to hate yet are the most loved team in the world.

  144. Rich in NJ June 24th, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    “”989 fielding %, best in AL
    29 errors, least in AL”

    Defense is largely about getting to balls. They don’t.

    http://riveraveblues.com/2012/.....iro-70677/

    Chris asks: How have the Yankees defensive metrics been this year? It seems like missing Brett Gardner in left field hasn’t been that big of a deal. Are they average, above or below compared to everyone else and how are they doing compared to last year’s team?

    As a team, the Yankees rank 26th in UZR (-14.4) and 20th in DRS (-12), so they’ve been a bad defensive team so far this year. Obviously you have to take defensive stats with a massive grain of salt this year early in the season, so keep that in mind. I think the Yankees get consistently elite defense from only one position on the field and it’s (arguably) the least important: first base. I consider Curtis Granderson, Nick Swisher, and Alex Rodriguez to be average at their positions, Cano a bit above average at second, and both Raul Ibanez and Derek Jeter well below average at their positions. Ranking in the bottom third of the league defensively certainly passes the sniff test.

    The advanced stats were split on New York last year, ranking them top ten in UZR (+23.2) and nearly bottom ten in DRS (-12). Pick your poison here. I think they were probably in the middle, an average defensive club overall with most of that due to Gardner running everything down. For a quick and dirty look at a team’s defensive performance, just use 1-BABIP. The Yankees are at .703, so right now three out of every ten balls put in play off the team’s pitchers are falling in for hits. That’s one of the worst marks in the game (21st). The Yankees had a pretty good defensive club last year and the year before, but I definitely think it’s fair to say they’ve taken a step back this year, with or without Gardner.

  145. Rich in NJ June 24th, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    “The Yankees in some way are the team version of Arod, rich and handsome and wins all the time, it’s understandable if there is some penis envy.”

    As an old female psych prof once said: Freud said women have penis envy. It’s men who really have penis envy.

    That said, winning becomes a lot more difficult if A-Rod’s decline endures and/or accelerates, if only because his salary could buy three or four very good players.

  146. GreenBeret7 June 24th, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    And in Trenton, Jose Pirela, Zoilo Almonte and Melk continue to pound the ball. single, stolen base for Pirela, Almonte drives in a run with a line single and Mesa hits a 2 run homer in the first.

  147. mick June 24th, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    so cano now has no range and what about arm strength, how is that measured?

  148. Rich in NJ June 24th, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    Who said Cano has no range?

  149. mick June 24th, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    and they make less errors b/c they don’t get to as many balls as they should?

  150. mick June 24th, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    where does cano rate on range?

  151. mick June 24th, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    just use 1-BABIP. The Yankees are at .703, so right now three out of every ten balls put in play off the team’s pitchers are falling in for hits.
    =================================
    why isn’t this the pitchers fault?

  152. mick June 24th, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    “Cano a bit above average at second,”
    ===========================
    teams would salivate to take their chances with him as their 2b.

  153. Cashmoney June 24th, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    Rich, it’s not a good idea to give ten year mega contract to anyone, period. it be interesting to see in the post roid era if guys like fielder, pujol and others who were given lengthy and large contracts can maintain their prowess after mid 30s. again, there are always exception to the rules. but it be interesting to see if these guys will ultimately give their team their money worth in productions for the duration of their contracts.

  154. Tyler June 24th, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    Rich in NJ June 24th, 2012 at 1:20 pm
    “The Yankees in some way are the team version of Arod, rich and handsome and wins all the time, it’s understandable if there is some penis envy.”

    As an old female psych prof once said: Freud said women have penis envy. It’s men who really have penis envy.

    That said, winning becomes a lot more difficult if A-Rod’s decline endures and/or accelerates, if only because his salary could buy three or four very good players.
    ——————————–

    That’s been the big problem since he signed the more recent long term deal. The only positive is that he will be paid less in the later years so it won’t be quite so big a number.

  155. GreenBeret7 June 24th, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    Anybody that considers Cano “a slightly above average” defensive 2nd baseman has no business writing about baseball and should be considered an idiot.

  156. Tyler June 24th, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    mick June 24th, 2012 at 1:31 pm
    and they make less errors b/c they don’t get to as many balls as they should?
    ————————————–

    Yep. Errors really aren’t the best statistic to rate a defense. That’s why there has always been a lot of debate about Jeter’s gold gloves. He doesn’t make as many errors as some shortstops but he also doesn’t get to as many balls especially to his left. If they are going through as hits, it’s just as bad as an error really.

  157. Tyler June 24th, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    Regardless of UZR etc., I think Granderson is an above average centerfielder and Cano is an elite second baseman in the field. Granderson covers a ton of ground which is easy to see with Jones and Ibanez recently out there with him.

  158. GreenBeret7 June 24th, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    Funny that the same people that say UZR is flawed are the ones that drag it out to help their argument.

  159. mick June 24th, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    The same guy wrote this:

    “I think the Yankees get consistently elite defense from only one position on the field and it’s (arguably) the least important: first base.”
    =================================
    How many errors and runs has Tex saved?

  160. GreenBeret7 June 24th, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    Maybe if the Yankee infielders would flip the ball between their legs and showboat would get better ratings.

  161. Tyler June 24th, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    mick-

    I don’t understand him saying that first base is the least important…. Tex has made every single infielder better by giving them confidence that he will come up with their throws. He’s phenomenal out there.

  162. mick June 24th, 2012 at 1:44 pm

    How can it be known if a ball should have been gotten to?
    Doesn’t it depend on the defensive strategy at that moment?

  163. Rich in NJ June 24th, 2012 at 1:44 pm

    Cashmoney

    If you are going to give a 10 year contract, he shouldn’t be older than 27 or 28.

    For example, Jeter’s 10 year deal worked out well, and A-Rod’s would have as well if there had been no opt out.

  164. Cashmoney June 24th, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    When Jeter first came up, he had good range to his right and below average to his left. Jeter had steady hands and went back on a ball exceptionally well. Now, he is prolly below average range wise but still have strong accurate arm and sure hands.

  165. Tyler June 24th, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    mick June 24th, 2012 at 1:44 pm
    How can it be known if a ball should have been gotten to?
    Doesn’t it depend on the defensive strategy at that moment?
    —————————————–

    For me it’s subjective but it’s pretty obvious watching that some of the balls that get by him coudl have been snagged by other SS. The difference between Jeter and Simmons (of the Braves) was pretty large.

  166. Rich in NJ June 24th, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    Cano’s UZR/150 is 9.9, which dovetails with what I see.

    But there is no way I would give Cano a 10 year contract which would begin in his age 31 season.

  167. Tyler June 24th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    And don’t get me wrong I’m a huge Jeter fan. I love the fact that he almost never botches the plays he should make (which sounds obvious) but is very important. His range just isn’t great but he is dependable still.

  168. mick June 24th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    If a guy can say Cano is about average based on statistics that only he understands, who are we to argue?
    All we have are our eyes that watch him everyday.
    He has UZR ratings that cannot be wrong, right?

  169. Rich in NJ June 24th, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    “Funny that the same people that say UZR is flawed are the ones that drag it out to help their argument.”

    Virtually every metric in every aspect of life from science to economics to the social sciences is flawed. That doesn’t mean that they don’t yield useful information.

  170. Cashmoney June 24th, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    Cashmoney

    If you are going to give a 10 year contract, he shouldn’t be older than 27 or 28.

    For example, Jeter’s 10 year deal worked out well, and A-Rod’s would have as well if there had been no opt out.
    —-
    I am leery of any athletes maintaining their peak performance after their mid 30s. but sure, at 37 and 38 u prolly suffer couple years with sub par productions. I think rod be 42 when its all set and done, common sense and history will tell u that’s a good idea.

  171. Cashmoney June 24th, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    “not a good idea’

  172. mick June 24th, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    Regardless, in the end, a WS hasn’t been decided by a players UZR.
    Maybe not hitting with RISP but , as we have seen with the Yankees, they would have won the ALDS last year if they hit a fly or gb at a timely moment, which is prolly more important than RISP avg.

  173. Tar June 24th, 2012 at 1:52 pm

    Positioning also plays a big part in the “range” issue. I think the Yankees lack in that department.

    And Tyler totally agree about Tex and first base. He saves a ton of hits just with the scoop alone, how is that the least important position?

  174. mick June 24th, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    For me it’s subjective but it’s pretty obvious watching that some of the balls that get by him coudl have been snagged by other SS.
    ===========================
    Would you rather have that other SS?

  175. Tyler June 24th, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    Cashmoney-

    One of the side effects of the steroid era is that we forgot that player performance usually naturally dips into the late 30s.. Watching guys like Bonds go out there and put up gigantic seasons at age 40 had us fooled. Very few guys are able to keep being successful (Pettite, Rivera come to mind) but even they have had to make adjustments as they have lost some velocity.

  176. yanks61 June 24th, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    Rich in NJ June 24th, 2012 at 1:28 am

    There’s no facts to back up that pitching wins

    —————————————————

    Rich, you’ve never seen these facts then, nor the figures that I posted below that.

    Be back later -

    Pitching – almost always – wins.

    From the Hardball Times last year:

    http://www.hardballtimes.com/m.....pionships/

    Since the first World Series (excerpt):

    “• Only 22 of 106 winners had better hitting than pitching (20.75 percent)
    • Only eight of 40 winners had better hitting than pitching in the divisional era (20 percent)
    • Only two of 16 winners had better hitting than pitching in the dead-ball era (12.50 percent)
    • Since the offensive-centric Reds of the 1970s, aka The Big Red Machine, only five of 33 have had better hitting than pitching (15.15 percent)
    • The average World Series winner had an OPS+ of 103.47 and a median of 104
    • The average World Series winner had an ERA+ of 113.84 and a median of 113
    • Thus, on average, the winner has an ERA+ of 10.37 more than its OPS+”

    —————————————————————————————–

    The above is an excellent, in depth analysis for those who are interested enough to read it.

    Now, as of today, the top ten pitching teams in MLB are:

    Washington, LA Dodgers, Pittsburgh, LA Angels, Tampa Bay, San Francisco, Cinncinati, Texas, Oakland, Baltimore.

    Of these top ten, WASH, LAD, PITT, CINN and BALT are all at the top or near top of their divisions.

    The top ten hitting teams are:

    Texas, St.Louis, Boston, Colorado, Philadelphia, Arizona, Detroit, San Francisco, LA Dodgers.

    Of these top ten, only Texas and San Francisco are at the top or near top of their divisions. And both those teams are also top ten pitching teams! Otherwise of those top ten hitting teams, STL, BOS, COL, PHIL, ARI and DET are all under .500 or barely above.

    Oakland is in top ten pitching but dead last in hitting. WASH is THE top pitching team and in first place even though they are among the bottom 5 hitting teams. PITT and TAMPA are both near the bottom in hitting, yet still very competitive.

    The conclusion is once again obvious: PITCHING WINS (almost always!)

    The Yankees are 11th in pitching and 10th in hitting, in the top third of both categories. A pretty balanced act at the moment. I think that their superior bullpen has also helped to keep them where they are. If I had my druthers, I would of course hope they get BOTH more hitting and pitching. They will certainly have to look to replace Swish next year. They’ll have to make a decision regarding their catching. And soon they will have to look at 3rd, SS and probably CF as well. We can hope some of that will come from the farm. But, as history – and this year’s standings – seems to clearly demonstrate, the Cashman and his team are not wrong; in general, pitching wins. The trick is going to be to find acceptable alternatives for those position players in the next few years, while continuing to develop and/or find still more good pitching. With decent hitting, pitching will, much more than not, keep you at the top.

  177. mick June 24th, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    how is that the least important position?
    ========================
    b/c a sabremetrician said so and he will argue with #’s on his side.

  178. Tyler June 24th, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    mick-

    I never said I’d rather have Simmons than Jeter. Jeter is as steady as they come and like somebody already said, has great hands and an accurate arm. But I’d take Simmons range over Jeter’s any day. There was a play in the 1st game of the series that the Yanks won in which Simmons was shading towards 3rd and still knocked down a ball almost directly over 2nd. I was really impressed by his d. Keep in mind that one is 22 and the other is 37 also.

  179. Rich in NJ June 24th, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    “• Only 22 of 106 winners had better hitting than pitching (20.75 percent)
    • Only eight of 40 winners had better hitting than pitching in the divisional era (20 percent)
    • Only two of 16 winners had better hitting than pitching in the dead-ball era (12.50 percent)
    • Since the offensive-centric Reds of the 1970s, aka The Big Red Machine, only five of 33 have had better hitting than pitching (15.15 percent)
    • The average World Series winner had an OPS+ of 103.47 and a median of 104
    • The average World Series winner had an ERA+ of 113.84 and a median of 113
    • Thus, on average, the winner has an ERA+ of 10.37 more than its OPS+”

    This speaks to balance, not the pitching wins meme.

  180. mick June 24th, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    tyler

    maybe range is overrated ?

    of course, age will play a factor.

  181. Tyler June 24th, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    mick-

    I don’t think range is overrated by that’s just my opinion. Getting to a ball at least gives the chance for an out and might even save a run by knocking it down. Just my opinion though. Jeter never had fantastic range regardless of age however.

  182. mick June 24th, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    Jeter never had fantastic range regardless of age however.
    ======================================
    How in heck did they win 5 rings with him at SS, hard to figure?

  183. Rich in NJ June 24th, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    Also from the linked article, I note this comment:

    Walt Davis said…
    Sorry, but there’s a fundamental flaw.

    “League average” OPS is based only on position players. Team OPS of course includes pitcher hitting. This means that, for the entire history of the NL and the pre-DH history of the AL, league average TEAM OPS+ is not 100. The 2006 Cards had a 97 OPS+ in a league with an average team OPS+ of 94 so they were above-average. The 1907 Cubs had a 92 OPS+ in a league with an average team OPS+ of 93 so they were barely below-average.

    Shift the Y-axis so it crosses the X-axis at around 94-95 and you have a more accurate chart (post-DH AL winners screw things up though—the Twins were a legit below-average offense). In that chart, almost all the winners are, no surprise, above-average in both offense and defense.

    In short, a median OPS+ of 104 is, for most of baseball history, about 10 OPS+ points above average and a lot closer to a median ERA+ of 114 than you think. As a crude fix, divide team OPS+ by league-average OPS+ then re-do your plot.

    There are also potentially issues about how ERA+ is figured (see Tango’s work on that) and that OPS+ undervalues OBP some.

  184. mick June 24th, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    When you talk of balance, I would rather err on the side of pitching.
    Timely hitting beats a high BA…look at the 60 Pirates.

  185. GreenBeret7 June 24th, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    Zoilo Almonte’s bat is on display but so is his arm. Just threw out Jackie Bradley tring to advance to 2nd on a deep fly to the warning track in right.

  186. mick June 24th, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    All those fancy stats might be fun to you in the scientific way you view the game but many say no thanks when it comes to viewing the game thru that lense.
    Imagine if we tried to indoctrinate our children to these #’s?
    It would spoil the fun of the game , for sure.
    Baseball is a #’s game but it is not a science which your viewpoint purports.

  187. mick June 24th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    When will Zoilo be ready for the big team?

  188. There Will Never Be Another Mo June 24th, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    mick June 24th, 2012 at 2:09 pm
    When will Zoilo be ready for the big team?

    *********

    A more relevant question might become: when will Abraham Almonte be ready for the big team.

    Almonte’s last 16 games:.343/.410/.486, .896 OPS, 3 triples, 4 doubles, 8 SB in 8 attempts. Almonte has 29 stolen bases on the season.

  189. Rich in NJ June 24th, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    “Imagine if we tried to indoctrinate our children to these #’s?”

    Given how we are falling behind much of the world in math and science education, if I had a kid, I would be thrilled if they were interesting in anything quantative.

  190. Nick in SF June 24th, 2012 at 2:17 pm

    Strange scene in Fenway. Youk got a standing ovation when he came to the plate and he punished the fans by taking off his helmet and showing them his face. He must really want out.

  191. Tar June 24th, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    “Given how we are falling behind much of the world in math and science education, if I had a kid, I would be thrilled if they were interesting in anything quantative.”

    Understandably so, but thats not going to make him a good ballplayer. Or help him understand the nuances that dominate the game and frankly can’t be quantified.

  192. Tar June 24th, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    Nick

    :D

  193. Giuseppe Franco June 24th, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    Like it or not, Yankee fans don’t stand by their guys when they struggle terribly like the Fenway faithful do. Youkilis now and Ortiz in the past.

    Ask A-Rod how Yankee fans stood by him when he struggled.

  194. yanks61 June 24th, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    OK, Rich, I’d rather let you and whoever else wants to argue those stats with the author of the article. The fact is that the facts are there – they’re just facts that you don’t agree with. But to say definitively there are no facts, just isn’t true.

    So in the meantime, why the current teams standings, as I posted them, regarding teams hitting/pitching stats? As of today, those stats clearly show that the better teams have better pitching and are doing much better then those with better hitting. So what’s better? In general, stronger pitching is more important than stronger hitting.

    Obviously, there’s no question that balance is best. However you said there are no facts to show that pitching wins, yet the better pitching teams are winning more. The point being made, is that pitching is a more important part of the balance.

  195. Rich in NJ June 24th, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    “Ask A-Rod how Yankee fans stood by him when he struggled.”

    I think there has been a segment of the fanbase who somehow believed that A-Rod’s presence was a slight to Jeter, so any time he struggled, these “fans” were only to ready to pounce.

    Also, the media has played a role in the hyper-scrutiny of A-Rod. IMO, that can be seen in the differential way that A-Rod and Ortiz have been treated subsequent to the revelations about PED usage. A-Rod has been vilified and demeaned despite the fact that he was relatively forthright. Oritz, OTOH, has been given a free pass since his “I’ll get back to you on that” comment.

  196. Tar June 24th, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    GF

    Not sure I totally agree with that. Alex is a special case. How were Yankee fans with Jorge, and Jeter when they struggled

    And are they really cheering for Youk, or is it a reverse boo directed at Valentine. :D

    Having said that it’s not called a Bronx cheer for nothing.

  197. MTU June 24th, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    61-

    Bon jour mon amie.

    There are at least 2 distinct schools of thought (possibly 3) on what is more important Pitching, or Hitting.

    There is the Randy school which believes that the genetic makeup of the Yankees is to be a mashing team, and that ultimately accounts for their longterm success.

    A 2nd school of though is that Pitching is Paramount( Trisha would be a good example).

    The 3rd and final group believes the road to Eden lies in a balance of the 2.

    That is my POV (#3).

    If I were forced to choose between the 2 alternatives (which I’m not) I
    prefer a team to be an excellent Pitching team.

    What happens in the playoffs is still a crapshoot IMO.

  198. Rich in NJ June 24th, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    “OK, Rich, I’d rather let you and whoever else wants to argue those stats with the author of the article. The fact is that the facts are there – they’re just facts that you don’t agree with. But to say definitively there are no facts, just isn’t true.”

    No, it’s an analysis based on questionable assumptions.

    “So in the meantime, why the current teams standings, as I posted them, regarding teams hitting/pitching stats”

    Anything can happen over a limited sample.

    Look at Ibanez: .235 .293 .476 .769 OPS+ 102

    with RISP: 220 .284 .492 .775

    But he has also gotten some very, very big hits.

    So I don’t think small sample size observations are anything more than a curiosity.

    “The point being made, is that pitching is a more important part of the balance.”

    It’s a rebuttal point.

  199. mick June 24th, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    Yankee fans reactions to early Arod were guttural.
    To purport to break down way, in the sabermetric tradition is utter nonsense.
    Forget the media. Fans booed him b/c of his persona.
    He came here with great expectations and continually did not produce in critical situations.
    I see it akin to the treatment Winfield got.
    You don’t get kudos in NY for your reputation.
    Winning supercedes reputation.

  200. theREALkevin June 24th, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    Granderson is not an above average center fielder. He’s average at best, possibly below average. He routinely gets horrible jumps on fly balls and his arm is suspect in both strength & accuracy. Obviously Brett Gardner has been hurt this year, but he has long been a better choice to play CF, yet the Yankees refuse to move Granderson from CF despite his shortcomings.

  201. mick June 24th, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    “Given how we are falling behind much of the world in math and science education, if I had a kid, I would be thrilled if they were interesting in anything quantative.”

    Understandably so, but thats not going to make him a good ballplayer. Or help him understand the nuances that dominate the game and frankly can’t be quantified.
    ========================
    In fact, it would turn him off to baseball, as if it needs any more detractors.
    Some kids find it boring enough without adding science to the mix.
    It’s a game.

  202. mick June 24th, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    To purport to break down way,
    =======================
    way=why

  203. Giuseppe Franco June 24th, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    I don’t see A-Rod as a “special case” – at least he shouldn’t be. It shouldn’t matter that he wasn’t homegrown like the others. They all wore the same uniform on game day.

    The guy won 2 MVPs in pinstripes and the fans still booed him. It was an embarrassment.

  204. Nick in SF June 24th, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    “There is the Randy school which believes that the genetic makeup of the Yankees is to be a mashing team, and that ultimately accounts for their longterm success.”

    Not really. randy spent an entire off-season complaining about the Yanks’ pitching in general and as it related to the world-beaters in Minnesota in particular. Those were fun times. But anyway, you can’t really take anything randy says at face value, it’s all in the context of hyper anti-Cashmanism. Always question voices of authority. ;)

  205. Rich in NJ June 24th, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    “He came here with great expectations and continually did not produce in critical situations.”

    A-Rod was stamped as a choker by some after the 2004 ALCS collapse even though his overall stats were good (.258 .378 .516 .895 ). But look at the team stats for the series. The “choking” label can be assigned far and wide, but isn’t….

    He was tremendous, however, in the 2004 ALDS (.421 .476 .737 1.213), which is also forgotten.

    Plus, you had sniping of A-Rod from Torre, Giambi and others, which helped poison the well.

  206. Giuseppe Franco June 24th, 2012 at 2:44 pm

    Yeah, A-Rod “didn’t produce” even though he won 2 MVPs with the team and was essentially the sole reason they even made the playoffs in 2007.

    A lot of Yankee fans are just stupid. Plain and simple.

  207. Rich in NJ June 24th, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    “Understandably so, but thats not going to make him a good ballplayer. Or help him understand the nuances that dominate the game and frankly can’t be quantified.”

    Tar

    My comment was slightly sarcastic because it seems some believe (per mick’s post) that if you look at the statistical side of baseball it forecloses the ability to look at it from the gut level of just playing the game. I don’t think that’s true.

  208. mick June 24th, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    “He came here with great expectations and continually did not produce in critical situations.”

    A-Rod was stamped as a choker by some after the 2004 ALCS collapse
    =============================================
    Most of the disappointment was directed at him during the regular season.

  209. Rich in NJ June 24th, 2012 at 2:49 pm

    “Most of the disappointment was directed at him during the regular season.”

    In 2004?

    .286 .375 .512 .888 OPS+ 131

    Not a peak season, but still quite good. From 2004-2009, I don’t understand how any reasonable person can be disappointed with his regular seasons.

  210. tucker June 24th, 2012 at 2:51 pm

    Balance is indeed the key to winning, but I think amply of people see the offense as the component that needs more of a lift than pitching. The team has a solid rotation and a great bullpen. It needs a more consistent offense. Losing Gardner hurts, so if he is not able to return, the team needs to find a bat …. To a lesser extent, the defense is also a challenge. Jeter and A Rod both committed key errors yesterday. That is the exception. They are two of the most reliable fielders in he game when they reach a ball. the problem is they are reaching fewer and fewer balls. Add in Gardner’s injury, and the team’s left-side defense faces major struggles right now.

  211. yanks61 June 24th, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    Rich – Anything can happen over a limited sample.

    “Pitching wins” isn’t just something that can be quantified with mathematical formulas (and as we‘ve seen, it can be, only it depends on whose numbers you’re looking at as to which numbers you believe) Of course numbers can be made to fib just as well as words can – you merely have to use them selectively, as we’ve seen our good friend Randi does all the time.

    But, Rich, small sample? There are 30 teams who have each played roughly 69 games each. That’s 2070 games!That hardly seems like a small sample to me.

    But leaving out numbers, and without resorting to a Randi-ism, let’s just listen to the players. I’m sure we all have a feeling that they know a little something about the game. Because it’s not just baseball execs who feel that way about pitching (and I’m sure they’re consulting numbers in coming to that conclusion), listen to Arod or Jeter. In fact, listen to ANY ballplayers – well, except Ted Williams, of course – he just really hated pitchers :)

    Bonjour Mr. MTU. J’espere que tu va bien Chez Vous!

    I agree that balance is obviously best. I’m just making the point that I believe pitching to be the bigger part of the balance – which is why better pitching teams generally win.

  212. mick June 24th, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    “Most of the disappointment was directed at him during the regular season.”

    In 2004?
    ===================
    look at his #s with 2 0ut & risp, also late and close….this is why he was booed.
    compiling #’s doesn’t count here, maybe in Podunk.

  213. Rich in NJ June 24th, 2012 at 3:01 pm

    “you merely have to use them selectively, as we’ve seen our good friend Randi does all the time.”

    I don’t always agree with randy, but I don’t understand why he gets so much grief here. He is right a lot, and brings a unique perspective.

    “But, Rich, small sample? There are 30 teams who have each played roughly 69 games each. That’s 2070 games!That hardly seems like a small sample to me.”

    It is when you have so many variables that aren’t necessarily stable over the course of a season, let alone multiple seasons.

    “Because it’s not just baseball execs who feel that way about pitching (and I’m sure they’re consulting numbers in coming to that conclusion), listen to Arod or Jeter. In fact, listen to ANY ballplayers – well, except Ted Williams, of course – he just really hated pitchers ”

    Again, I prefer objective evidence to anecdotal information, and every thing I have looked at, including the “study” you linked, suggests that offense and pitching are pretty much equal contributors to success.

    The reason I lean toward offense is that pitching is fragile, so why tie up a scarce resource (money) in an asset that tends so risky, and as a result, variable.

  214. Rich in NJ June 24th, 2012 at 3:04 pm

    “look at his #s with 2 0ut & risp, also late and close….this is why he was booed.
    compiling #’s doesn’t count here, maybe in Podunk.”

    For his career:

    2 outs RISP: .270 .401 .468 .869

    Late and close: .272 .372 .526 .898

    If people want to be myopic, there is nothing I can do.

  215. mick June 24th, 2012 at 3:06 pm

    “look at his #s with 2 0ut & risp, also late and close….this is why he was booed.
    compiling #’s doesn’t count here, maybe in Podunk.”

    For his career:

    2 outs RISP: .270 .401 .468 .869

    Late and close: .272 .372 .526 .898

    If people want to be myopic, there is nothing I can do.
    ==================================
    Unfair.
    We were talking about his early Yankee years.

  216. yanks61 June 24th, 2012 at 3:06 pm

    theREALkevin June 24th, 2012 at 2:39 pm
    Granderson is not an above average center fielder. He’s average at best, possibly below average. He routinely gets horrible jumps on fly balls and his arm is suspect in both strength & accuracy. Obviously Brett Gardner has been hurt this year, but he has long been a better choice to play CF, yet the Yankees refuse to move Granderson from CF despite his shortcomings.

    ———————————————————

    Kevin, in the limited amount of time I’ve seen Grandy live or on TV, he’s made some truly great catches. But it seemed to me that he often got bad jumps on the ball before making those catches. So I agree with you. I guess that when Grandy came, no one was still sure if Brett was going to stick, so they awarded Grandy CF, the more prestigious position, as the guy most likely to stick around. Gardner is the better CF and the type of guy that would normally be the best fit there.

    If I were the Yanks, I’d try to move Grandy this winter – for a number of reasons – and hope that Brett is healthy next year.

  217. mick June 24th, 2012 at 3:08 pm

    In fact, he was doing what LoHud 2012 despises: not coming thru when it counts.
    Plain and simple.
    Guess you had to be there, so many New Yorkers could not be stupid.

  218. Giuseppe Franco June 24th, 2012 at 3:10 pm

    mick June 24th, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    look at his #s with 2 0ut & risp, also late and close….this is why he was booed.
    compiling #’s doesn’t count here, maybe in Podunk.

    ———–

    You’re making the argument for us just how stupid and unreasonable the fans are who booed him. He was held to standards unlike anyone else.

    The guy produced huge numbers for this club and people didn’t appreciate it. It’s that simple.

    Great player or not, the guy was also human. All the booing and unfair media focus on his shortcomings made him the scapegoat and it had to take it’s mental toll on him. That crap just exacerbated the issue and didn’t nothing to help.

    Nobody could thrive under those circumstances. Even Jeter acknowledged how the added pressure getting to 3000 hits at the beginning of 2011 took it’s toll on him.

  219. mick June 24th, 2012 at 3:18 pm

    You’re making the argument for us just how stupid and unreasonable the fans are who booed him. He was held to standards unlike anyone else.

    The guy produced huge numbers for this club and people didn’t appreciate it.
    ==================================================
    Unless you can give me the day the booing stopped your argument holds no water.
    He didn’t come here with huge #’s as a Yankee.

  220. austinmac June 24th, 2012 at 3:20 pm

    Josh Willingham, a name mentioned here, hit an upper deck home run in Cincinnati off Chapman to give the Twins the lead.

  221. mick June 24th, 2012 at 3:21 pm

    Mantle got booed here but , in time, he was adored.
    Maybe the same can happen to Arod.
    I doubt it…

  222. Pat M. June 24th, 2012 at 3:27 pm

    Theo is asking for a King’s ransom for Matt Garza, driving away some clubs for now ( Dodgers, Yanks )

  223. Giuseppe Franco June 24th, 2012 at 3:28 pm

    Mick,

    Virtually all of your arguments hold no water.

  224. Rich in NJ June 24th, 2012 at 3:28 pm

    “We were talking about his early Yankee years.”

    Close & late
    2004: .275 .359 .438 .796 high leverage: .327 .413 .574 .987

    2005: .293 .418 .520 .938 high leverage: .267 .363 .500 .863

    Looks pretty good to me.

  225. yanks61 June 24th, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    OK, Rich, anyway thanks for playing. You are at least always a reasonable poster, even if I don’t always agree with you.

    By the way, I think that Randi gets back the grief that he gives. I don’t at all dislike the guy, even though I think, regardless of how much he knows, that he enjoys posting provocative nonesense in trying to support faulty arguments.

    Rich, posting Montero’s catching numbers as proof that Jesus is the best catcher in the AL? ( or something like that.)

    Fine, Randi, by all means defend your belief that JM is going to be, in your opinion, a good offensive player. I hope he reaches all the lofty goals some people have predicted for him. But when Randi does stuff like that, you can’t really have too much respect for what he’s posting. So he’s either being facetious (then put a funny face or something at the end of your post) or else he seems to think we’re all stupid.

    The Twins pitching business, as Nick pointed out, was fun times. But the fact is that he also lets his love affair with Neil Allen influence his Cashphobia. Again, good criticism, such as many on here contribute is great. But his visceral hatred of Cash gets in the way of any serious criticism.

    And, in fact, he’s often given the impression that just about everyone on here is beneath him. That sense of superiorty is more than a little off putting.

    Having said all that, he’s in my age group, so I understand grumpy old men :)

  226. yanks61 June 24th, 2012 at 3:36 pm

    Oh, and as Jimmy Durante always said, “Goodnight Mrs Calabash, wherever you are.”

    Enjoy the game everyone. I hope I wake up to a Yankee victory.

  227. We Want Mo Mo June 24th, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    Red Sox with another easy win.

  228. GreenBeret7 June 24th, 2012 at 3:47 pm

    Mantle was booed for not being Ruth and DiMaggio. He was booed for replacing DiMaggio. Mostly he was booed for being a “draft dodger”, even though he appied for the draft and failed 4 physicals. Compliments of the poison press led by Dick Young and Henry Hecht. The booing stopped when he apologized to the fans in the press for not running out a ground ball in 1960

  229. We Want Mo Mo June 24th, 2012 at 3:52 pm

    Giuseppe Franco June 24th, 2012 at 3:10 pm

    I agree 100%. In addition, Arod’s postseason numbers with us were never bad. He was just labeled a choker by the media.

  230. CompassRosy June 24th, 2012 at 3:53 pm

    “How many errors and runs has Tex saved?”

    ~
    Don’t know about errors but, he’s saved 6 runs…
    http://tinyurl.com/7yo82vl

    3rd most among AL first basemen

  231. mick June 24th, 2012 at 4:16 pm

    Unless you can give me the day the booing stopped your argument holds no water.
    ====================================
    You still haven’t answered this.
    Just because you say it doesn’t make it true.
    You didn’t live here and have no idea what went on in the stands.

  232. jmills June 24th, 2012 at 4:19 pm

    GreenBeret7 – I did not know that info regarding Mantle. As a writer here, I have to realize it is arrogant to jump the gun and scribe in a derrogatory fashion. Mickey was a person who I think would have taken many things back if he could; but sometimes,…….concrete is concrete. I don’t know much regarding your present Arod situation.

  233. mick June 24th, 2012 at 4:22 pm

    you conveniently left off this one in 04:

    2 outs, RISP .206 .308 .456 .764

  234. GreenBeret7 June 24th, 2012 at 4:25 pm

    Gary Sanchez leads off the 2nd innng with a bomb to left center

  235. mick June 24th, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    The booing of Mantle stopped when Maris came on the scene.

    Arod brought his own hype, and time and again in 04,he didn’t come near to living up to it, in pressure situations.

    Does anyone think the boos came for any other reason. Game on the line, over and over, he didn’t come through, in key spots. Maybe some of you missed some games, being out of towners.

  236. jmills June 24th, 2012 at 4:36 pm

    Mick, one reason Carter should be in the hall,……he pounded Philly ! :)

  237. Nick in SF June 24th, 2012 at 4:42 pm

    The tension mounts in Kiev as England v. Italy goes to an extra 30 minutes.

  238. mick June 24th, 2012 at 4:43 pm

    In addition, Arod’s postseason numbers with us were never bad.
    ===================================
    you might have missed these: 04-07

    2004 28 NYY AL ALCS BOS L 7 37 31 8 8 2 0 2 5 0 0 4 6 .258 .378 .516 .895 16 1 2 0 0 0
    2005 29 NYY AL ALDS LAA L 5 23 15 2 2 1 0 0 0 1 1 6 5 .133 .435 .200 .635 3 2 2 0 0 0
    2006 30 NYY AL ALDS DET L 4 15 14 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 .071 .133 .071 .205 1 0 1 0 0 0
    2007 31 NYY AL ALDS CLE L 4 17 15 2 4 0 0 1 1 0 0 2 6 .267 .353 .467 .820 7

  239. jmills June 24th, 2012 at 4:44 pm

    Nick in S.F. – football fans are fighting crazy.

  240. mick June 24th, 2012 at 4:44 pm

    most of his damage in 04 came when they were up 3-0, I’m sure you remember.

  241. Pat M. June 24th, 2012 at 4:44 pm

    Nick in SF…..I have Italia…..Do you have a line for the Spain / Portugal

  242. mick June 24th, 2012 at 4:46 pm

    Pat M-
    Is there anything you won’t bet on ;) ?

  243. GreenBeret7 June 24th, 2012 at 4:48 pm

    Sanchez picks off another runner at first base

  244. Tar June 24th, 2012 at 4:48 pm

    I never agreed with booing Alex. Think its kind of dumb.

    But when you come into NY as the Highest paid player ever, to a team where you previously had some disagreements with it’s most beloved member, You are the page 6 cover boy, and you don’t produce, I don’t think the booing should be a shock to anybody.

    ( sorry for the run on sentences. :oops: )

  245. Tar June 24th, 2012 at 4:50 pm

    When I say don’t produce I mean in a NY Yankee kind of way.

    Championship.

  246. jmills June 24th, 2012 at 4:52 pm

    Mick – Winfield was perfect here in Toronto avec that stupid double vs the Braves to, ” WiN ” it all. Take care Yankee fans, your game is the Sunday evening treat.

  247. JobaTipsHisCap June 24th, 2012 at 4:54 pm

    Pk today.

    Go three lions!!!

  248. mick June 24th, 2012 at 4:55 pm

    When I say don’t produce I mean in a NY Yankee kind of way.

    Championship.
    =========
    He got booed way before that. Regular season.
    Prolly for all the reasons you mentioned.
    Nobody is arguing the right or wrong of it, just the moralists.
    It happened.

  249. MG June 24th, 2012 at 4:55 pm

    As someone who grew up in the ’50s in New York I want to put he booing of the Mick in some perspective.

    While there were times he was booed during a bad game (it wasn’t unusual for him to K 3 or 4X in a game) it wasn’t on a regular basis.

    The Yankees didn’t draw that many people in those days (they drew under 1.5M in 1956 in probably 70 dates since Sunday doubleheaders were pretty common) so noise traveled a lot further than in does now.

    You also had 3 teams in New York for most of those years and the crowd wasn’t always as pro-Yankee as it is now.

    I went to many games at Yankees Stadium while growing up (probably 6-10 games a year) and watched most home games on TV and Mick was my favorite player, I really can’t remember hearing boos except at those times where he had a bad game or got pissed off and kicked his helmet after striking out or making an out in a clutch situation. I never booed him, that’s for sure.

    Anyway, just my two cents…

  250. jmills June 24th, 2012 at 5:00 pm

    MG – so nice to receive your perspective! :)

  251. Nick in SF June 24th, 2012 at 5:01 pm

    Pat M, at my book it’s Spain -115 with the draw at +250 and Portugal at +330.

    Go England.

  252. GreenBeret7 June 24th, 2012 at 5:09 pm

    Maris was cheered when he was in NY in his first year of 1960. He was booed because of the home run race, fueled again by Dick Young, calling Maris a home run hitting freak and not worthy of being mentioned in the same breath with Ruth. ong as joind by Jimmy Cannon, who was close friends with Ruth and his widow. Oddly,because Ruth and Mrs Ruth didn’t like Lou and Mrs Gehrig, so, neither did Young and Cannon. Frick (baseball commissioner) and Oscar Fraley joined that group and Fraley was friends with Walter Winchell. Fraley and Winchell of course worked together on the “Untouchables” tv show. They started imaginary feud betwen Mantle and Maris.

    And now, you know the rest of the story.

  253. jmills June 24th, 2012 at 5:12 pm

    GreenBeret7, is Dick Young the same one who ran Seaver out of town for,……..Pat Zachry?

  254. GreenBeret7 June 24th, 2012 at 5:13 pm

    ***Young was joined by Jimmy Cannon***

  255. Tar June 24th, 2012 at 5:17 pm

    Youk to White Sox

  256. GreenBeret7 June 24th, 2012 at 5:18 pm

    JMills, Yep. Young was one of those. Along with the Mets GM/president Donald Grant. Thought Seaver got too much credit for them winning.

  257. Tar June 24th, 2012 at 5:18 pm

    Heyman reporting Youk for Zach Stewart and utility player.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

  258. Nick in SF June 24th, 2012 at 5:19 pm

    And they’re going to penalty kicks.

    FYI, this match, for wagering purposes, is graded as a draw, but it depends on what the exact rules of your particular wager are.

    Here we go!

  259. We Want Mo Mo June 24th, 2012 at 5:21 pm

    I dont understand. What could the Red Sox possibly get for Youk? How can they possibly get anything of value for an injury prone old no position player that’s being thrown out the door?

  260. jmills June 24th, 2012 at 5:22 pm

    GreenBeret7 – thanks for the confirmation.

  261. Ys Guy June 24th, 2012 at 5:24 pm

    so i asked several times this spring why so many were sure jesus would be great right out of the box and specifically compared him to matt wieters. i was laughed at and told that he was already better than weithers and there was no comparison

    so now jesus is coming up near the same # of games played as wieters had his rookie year and guess what? the numbers are very very close.

    check it out:
    wieters: 96g 9hr 43 rbi .288/.340/.412 a .753 ops
    montero: 82g 12hr 40rbi .273/.318/.442 a .760 ops

    and wieters is a much better catcher.

    so i guess it was possible he could struggle like wieters after all….

  262. Shame Spencer June 24th, 2012 at 5:25 pm

    FORZA ITALIA!!!!

  263. We Want Mo Mo June 24th, 2012 at 5:26 pm

    Yay!! There’s a real leader Mr Buffon, unlike his lookalike Henrik Lundqvist!

  264. Nick in SF June 24th, 2012 at 5:27 pm

    And England’s nightmare continues.

    Italy moves on to roll over for face the Germans.

  265. GreenBeret7 June 24th, 2012 at 5:28 pm

    Stewart has been getting around. He was also in the trade for Rolen for Encanarcion deal.

  266. Ys Guy June 24th, 2012 at 5:28 pm

    hard to believe the red socks got anything for youk who is DONE.

  267. J. Alfred Prufrock June 24th, 2012 at 5:29 pm

    BUFFON!

    BELLISSIMO!!!

  268. J. Alfred Prufrock June 24th, 2012 at 5:30 pm

    Shame Spencer June 24th, 2012 at 5:25 pm
    FORZA ITALIA!!!!
    ///

    Hi FIVE homegurrrl!!!

  269. Against All Odds June 24th, 2012 at 5:31 pm

    Ys Guy June 24th, 2012 at 5:28 pm

    hard to believe the red socks got anything for youk who is DONE.

    ————————————

    Which is great because I no longer have to hear Francesa say how great Youk is.

  270. jmills June 24th, 2012 at 5:32 pm

    J Alfred ! – poets never die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  271. GreenBeret7 June 24th, 2012 at 5:32 pm

    Sure thing, JMills.

    Can’t see the French or Italians haven’t ever won anything. Nether had ever won a war on their own. Well, not true. The French once won a war against the Italians.

  272. yankeefeminista June 24th, 2012 at 5:32 pm

    Forza Azzurri!!!

  273. yankeefeminista June 24th, 2012 at 5:33 pm

    Shame, know of any good Italian places showing the Thursday game?

  274. Ys Guy June 24th, 2012 at 5:34 pm

    randy’s point is a good one, what could you get for pineda in a trade?

    but i can also point this out: you couldnt get a young stud starter for montero now either.

    so far it’s still a wash…

  275. J. Alfred Prufrock June 24th, 2012 at 5:34 pm

    jmills, you say right, man!
    ///

    poetry in motion, we were not, but we can’t sit on a shootout, so had no choice but to advance!

    ANd all I can say is

    BUFFON
    BUFFON
    BUFFON

    and…..

    BUFFON!!!

  276. We Want Mo Mo June 24th, 2012 at 5:35 pm

    Righthander Zach Stewart and utilityman Brent Lillibridge are reportedly heading to Boston.

    Lillibridge resembles Clay Buchholz! I said last year when this guy caught a ball to end a game vs us that he would one day be a Red Sox.

  277. J. Alfred Prufrock June 24th, 2012 at 5:37 pm

    G. Franco – If you’re reading. Ortiz was lustily booed at Fenway, not for doing steroids, but because he was sucking.

    Both fanbases have their knee-jerkers and booers. The Alex stuff in the Bronx was still a minority – albeit a rather stupid and vocal one.

  278. Pat M. June 24th, 2012 at 5:39 pm

    Cannoli’s for for everyone !!!!!!

  279. J. Alfred Prufrock June 24th, 2012 at 5:40 pm

    yankeefeminista June 24th, 2012 at 5:32 pm
    Forza Azzurri!!!
    ///

    :D

    Wasn’t pretty but I’ll take it

  280. J. Alfred Prufrock June 24th, 2012 at 5:42 pm

    Our footwork stunk, no change of pace moves, too much prevent, but…we’re ALIIIIIIIVVVEEE!

    I’ve seen more charismatic and talented Italian teams… this one maybe has a little more of an excuse to hang back…but we do have….
    BUFFON!
    BUFFON!
    BUFFON!

  281. Nick in SF June 24th, 2012 at 5:42 pm

    The superior side clearly won, but if that’s the case on Thursday then the sinister Frau Merkel will be smiling again.

  282. Ys Guy June 24th, 2012 at 5:43 pm

    get used to hearing alex booed. when the yankees are limited by the $189M budget and alex is eating up $25M of the budget and he’s driving in 77 runs (current pace) it could get out of control bad.

  283. igotid88 June 24th, 2012 at 5:45 pm

    As long as the Yankees are in first place there shouldn’t be booing.

  284. igotid88 June 24th, 2012 at 5:47 pm

    Or in any case

  285. J. Alfred Prufrock June 24th, 2012 at 5:52 pm

    Boo Big Papi? Unthinkable
    By DOM AMORE, damore@courant.com, October 18, 2008
    David Ortiz grounded to first base, an easy, routine out. What wasn’t routine was what happened next. Ortiz was booed at Fenway Park on Thursday. Pretty loud. And with that, the search for this week’s topic came to an abrupt end. Big Papi getting booed at Fenway Park? That makes me mad. Ortiz came up the next time and hit a dramatic three-run homer. Now, you can spare us the history lessons. We know Ted Williams and Yaz got booed at one time or another. We know Mickey Mantle got booed.

  286. Shame Spencer June 24th, 2012 at 5:53 pm

    JAP & Fem – Glad to see we agree on yet another important matter in sports!!

    Fem – The games have been on at a lot of bars in downtown NYC and Hoboken but none in particular that I’m partial too. I’ve been catching bits and pieces in NY when I’m on my lunch breaks.

  287. Ys Guy June 24th, 2012 at 5:54 pm

    jeter too

  288. Shame Spencer June 24th, 2012 at 5:55 pm

    I’m pretty sure Sox fans boo their players just as much as any other team in baseball. Those people are brutal.

  289. Shame Spencer June 24th, 2012 at 5:56 pm

    Nick in SF June 24th, 2012 at 5:42 pm

    The superior side clearly won, but if that’s the case on Thursday then the sinister Frau Merkel will be smiling again.

    ———–

    Not that ze Germans need any help but the scheduling is really absurd..

  290. Shame Spencer June 24th, 2012 at 5:56 pm

    :arrow:

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    Hi Yankee fans! Plan on coming down to your fair city.

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    Hi GreenBeret! – Canadians were slaughtered in France etc.. The English have to observe some of the situation. War obviously sucks. When I go back to Paris ( and Jim Morrison’s grave ),………..I will tell them to lighten up. Best!

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