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Postgame notes: “That can happen in your first start”

Posted by: vmercogliano - Posted in Misc on Jun 29, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

All of the excitement that comes with one’s major league debut didn’t last very long for Yankees’ rookie Adam Warren on Friday night. The 24-year-old right-hander was rudely welcomed to the big leagues by a deep and potent Chicago White Sox lineup that pounded out a total of 19 hits in a 14-7 win.

“I left some fastballs up,” said Warren, who pitched 2 1/3 innings, allowing six runs on eight hits and two walks while striking out one. “I didn’t quite have my fastball command tonight, and that’s not like me. It’s usually my strength, and I think maybe I might have been rushing a little bit.”

Warren got through the first inning unscathed after two walks with two outs, but the White Sox pounced in the second with four runs. They added two more in the third off of Warren, who was pulled before he recorded his second out of the inning.

“It’s his first start, you try not to form too much of an opinion,” Joe Girardi said. “It just didn’t look like he located as well as I’ve seen him locate. That can happen in your first start.”

• I know it’s only one start, but Warren looked very hittable tonight. Even some of the White Sox’ outs were hit hard, and he didn’t seem to fool them with any of his pitches. From the get-go, Warren was mixing in all four of his pitches (fastball, slider, curve, changeup), and Chicago seemed ready for them all. “Maybe a little bit,” Warren said when asked if nerves played a part in his performance. “But I think after the first inning, I felt a lot of that go away. I just never really got in a rhythm with my delivery.”

• Fellow rookie David Phelps was brought on in relief of Warren in the third, and he was much more effective. He did give up two runs in 3 1/3 innings, but he also showed the ability to put hitters away with five strikeouts. “He looked pretty good to me today,” Girardi said. “When we sent him down, he just hadn’t pitched a lot, and that’s not something that we wanted for him. We want to continue to pitch because we believe that he’s really in our future plans.”

• Prior to tonight’s game, Phelps said he had thrown 50 pitches in his most recent minor league outing. He got up to 64 pitches tonight, which would probably put him in the 80-pitch range if the Yankees wanted to use him on Wednesday. I’d be shocked if he didn’t get the start over Warren, but Girardi wouldn’t commit to anything. “Let me figure out what we’re going to do tomorrow,” he said.

• Speaking of tomorrow, expect to see some kind of a roster move to add a fresh arm. “I would think so,” Girardi said. “I have to talk to Brian (Cashman) and see what we can do for tomorrow.”

• The Yankees burned through five pitchers tonight, including outfielder Dewayne Wise. With Cory Wade struggling mightily (more on him in a minute), Girardi had Cody Eppley warming up. But rather than use him in a game that was pretty much out of reach, Girardi gave Wise his first MLB outing. Incredibly, Wise retired both batters that he faced. “Sometimes you can change speeds, you can change eye level, you can change in and out, and you can’t get anyone out,” Girardi said. “Then a guy comes in that’s just throwing BP and gets people out. It’s a strange game… They weren’t going to let me use (bullpen coach Mike) Harkey or (hitting coach) K-Long or anyone like that, so he was my last guy.”

• Getting back to Wade, he’s been downright awful in the past month. His ERA has ballooned to 5.79, and tonight he hit a rock bottom of sorts. In 2 1/3 innings, he allowed six runs on seven hits (58 pitches). In his final inning of work, Girardi was forced to go to Wise because the White Sox were knocking Wade all over the yard. He’s probably the Yankees last option in the bullpen at this point. “He’s just not locating as well, and he relies on location,” Girardi said. “He’s been up in the zone at times, and that’s not who he is. It’s been a struggle for him for about the last month.”

• As Girardi pointed out, this Chicago team can flat out rake. We were discussing in the press box how deep and versatile this lineup can be, and they showed it tonight. A.J. Pierzynski was the star with two home runs, but the White Sox can hurt you 1 through 9. “I wouldn’t make too much of it,” Girardi said. “It’s a bad night. Every team has them. They just had 21 hits the other night in Minnesota, so this is a club that can really hit. And they hit the ball out of the ballpark.”

• The Yankees also did some good things offensively tonight. Curtis Granderson hit his team-leading 22nd homer of the year in the first, Andruw Jones had two booming doubles and Derek Jeter passed Cal Ripken Jr. for 13th on the all-time hits list (3,185) with his double in the first inning.

• Another small positive for the Yankees is that Russell Martin ended up pinch-hitting in the eighth and catching in the ninth. “I’m trying to win a game,” Girardi said. “Today was the best that he’s felt, and I would expect that he’ll play tomorrow.”

Associated Press photos

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98 Responses to “Postgame notes: “That can happen in your first start””

  1. Niblick June 29th, 2012 at 11:38 pm

    Repost:

    Wade’s ERA since May 11: 9.68. That’s over a period of 44 games, or over one quarter of the season. He’s either hurt or burnt out. In either case, he’s of no use to the Yankees.

  2. Niblick June 29th, 2012 at 11:40 pm

    Oh boy, they’re bringing up DJ Mitchell tomorrow. He of the 5.36 ERA at Scranton. Might as well have Wise pitch. Or John Sterling. Or Suzyn Waldman.

  3. G. Love June 29th, 2012 at 11:45 pm

    That was probably one of the more painful debut starts I’ve seen. Feel horrible for Warren, but Phelps deserves to start and they need to send Warren down and get a fresh arm up. You destroy the pen with your poor start, that’s the breaks.

    Hopefully, we get a good 7 innings out of Kuroda and let Logan, Drob, Soriano finish it tomorrow.

    Wade does look cooked. He was pitching every day there for awhile and it’s caught up to him. Either that or he’s injured.

    They’re going to have to make a move with him. Does he still have options? If not, they have to phantom DL him. He’s not the same pitcher and appears to have hit a wall hard.

  4. rm June 29th, 2012 at 11:46 pm

    Jerkface June 29th, 2012 at 11:16 pm
    If you examined his history and knew the option rules you’d know he had atleast 1 if not 2 left
    —————————————
    I think it is pretty clear that he used 1 option in 2007 and another in 2009 in 2010 he was cut as soon as he was removed from 60 day so he didn’t use up an option. In 2011 he was not on the 40 man with TB so he didn’t use an option so I am pretty sure he has 1 option left.

  5. Jerkface June 29th, 2012 at 11:49 pm

    I think it is pretty clear that he used 1 option in 2007

    Why is it ‘pretty clear’? They didnt use an option in 2007 because he was added in the winter, to avoid the rule 5. Thus he did not have anywhere to be optioned too. He only needed to be added to the 40 man at the END of the 2007 season, because he gained 4 years of pro-time.

  6. luis June 29th, 2012 at 11:58 pm

    Good night everybody. Tomorrow is another day

  7. 4 NYY June 30th, 2012 at 12:06 am

    Phelps belongs here, Warren didn’t. Not just because of tonight, he just doesn’t have the “stuff” of a Phelps or Mitchell. This was predictable by many, I’m sure. It’s the biggest stage in MLB. It’s tough to make your debut in YS. Lots of pressure. Some guys never learn to handle it. It’s not easy, for sure. Too bad for Warren.

  8. GreenBeret7 June 30th, 2012 at 12:16 am

    Depending on what San Diego is asking for, NYYs might need to look at making a run for Huston Street.

  9. rm June 30th, 2012 at 12:25 am

    Jerkface June 29th, 2012 at 11:49 pm
    I think it is pretty clear that he used 1 option in 2007

    Why is it ‘pretty clear’? They didnt use an option in 2007 because he was added in the winter, to avoid the rule 5. Thus he did not have anywhere to be optioned too. He only needed to be added to the 40 man at the END of the 2007 season, because he gained 4 years of pro-time.
    —————————————————————–

    Well it is pretty clear that you know more about the details of his trips to the minors than I do. Do you thinkhe has two options remaining. Mike Axisa at RAB seems to think he may have one option left but he’s not sure. Do you know for sure he has two options left?

  10. Jerkface June 30th, 2012 at 12:31 am

    Do you know for sure he has two options left?

    No, I can only go by the option rules and what is written down as information.
    And actually looking at the 2008 schedule, it started on March 31 (early start that year) so he did spend 20 days in the minors which means they used an option in 2008. According to his wiki he was added to the 40 man in 2007. Since there is little reason for him to be added during the season, it stands to reason he was added in the winter to avoid the rule 5. Thus 2008 would be his first option year. 2 option remaining at that point. 2009 he was hurt and doing poorly, and was optioned. 2 options remaining. 2010 he had surgery and was on the 60 day DL, no option used. DFA’d after being removed from the DL. No option used. Signed minor league deal with the Rays. No option. Signed minor league deal with the YAnkees, no option.

    So 1 option left.

  11. igotid88 June 30th, 2012 at 12:52 am

    They should all be sent to the bullpen.

  12. waka flocka June 30th, 2012 at 1:00 am

    Girardi pinch hitting Martin is him trying to win a game? How about trying to win when the team is down by three? Girardi basically punted this game

  13. Bret The Hitman June 30th, 2012 at 1:50 am

    Holy cow Jesus Montero OPS under .700 as a DH. Noesi on pace for 20 losses. TWENTY. If Pineda can get on the field, we completely hosed Jerk Z

  14. sammiejohnson June 30th, 2012 at 1:58 am

    waka flocka June 30th, 2012 at 1:00 am

    Girardi pinch hitting Martin is him trying to win a game?

    ___________________________________

    Girardi did not “pitch hit Martin”. Chavez PH for Stewart in the bottom of the 8th. Martin came in to catch the top of the 9th. Martin did not have a PA.

  15. Bret The Hitman June 30th, 2012 at 2:01 am

    Now we know why Warren is still sitting in AAA and no team has ever taken initiative to pry him from the Yankees. These scouts are smart. They missed on David Phelps though.

  16. Bret The Hitman June 30th, 2012 at 2:02 am

    And they missed on Melky Cabrera, the true savior. He will rise again.

  17. Pat M. June 30th, 2012 at 2:05 am

    GB….The ” O Dog ” still has game if used right

  18. Bret The Hitman June 30th, 2012 at 2:12 am

    Holy cow, Melky will rise again, praise Jesus.

  19. MTU June 30th, 2012 at 6:28 am

    Phelps is a keeper.

    The contrast between him and Warren was like night and day.

    He has been moved around too much but he is a gamer and keeps meeting challenges.

    His poise and agressiveness on the mound remind me a little of Nova.

    Sat 92 and touched 94.

    He ran out of gas in that last inning.

    Other than that he was outstanding. Made several of the WS hitters look silly.

    Wade needs to be sent down for a while.

    Phelps should definitely get the next start.

    I hope he gets a chance to compete for the 5 spot against Garcia.

    Given a fair chance I’m not sure he wouldn’t come out on top.

    ;)

  20. MTU June 30th, 2012 at 6:31 am

    When CC and AP went down at the same time you had to know we were in for a rough ride for a while.

    Nothing you can do but suck it up.

    CC will be back soon and then Phelps and Garcia can duke it out for #5.

  21. Rich in NJ June 30th, 2012 at 6:37 am

    It’s the Yankees and they’re trying to win every game, but I can easily dismiss Warren’s outing. I think he was affected by the moment and it hindered his command.

    It’s not fair to him on one level, but it is what it is.

    So Phelps will be the guy for now, and depending on what Garcia shows, one of them will cover for Andy for the next two months.

  22. Rich in NJ June 30th, 2012 at 6:46 am

    As for Montero, get him out of Safeco and he will rake. He’s like a beaten down stock. Some smart GM should try to get him at a discount and unlock the value.

  23. MTU June 30th, 2012 at 7:09 am

    Rich-

    I like and respect Garcia but I’d love to see it be Phelps.

    The Yankees are gonna prefer Garcia’s experience.

    Hope Phelps steps it up. A guy like him is the future.

  24. blake June 30th, 2012 at 7:10 am

    Nerves probably did get Warren a bit but he just didnt have the stuff last night to get out big leaguers ….his fastball is pretty straigut and the slider didnt have much depth to it….he needs to learn to use his CU and curveball more effectively to keep the hitters off balamce …..looked like they were all sitting fastball.and adjusting rather easily to the slider ….

    Just a bad night…..one that would have felt better if they had went ahead and won Thursday

  25. blake June 30th, 2012 at 7:11 am

    Stretch Phelps out and let him pitch until Andy gets back.

  26. MTU June 30th, 2012 at 7:17 am

    Blake-

    I think Phelps might get 1 or 2 more starts.

    He needs to continue to impress to overtake Freddy as the fill-in.

    He’s been jerked around a bit too much IMO.

    I’m pulling for him.

  27. blake June 30th, 2012 at 7:20 am

    Im hoping they gige Phelps a real shot here…..hes earned it and he can get out big leaguers….

  28. MTU June 30th, 2012 at 7:23 am

    Blake-

    I agree.

    We’re on the same bandwagon.

  29. MTU June 30th, 2012 at 7:24 am

    And we’re singin’ in the same choir.

    (painful as that might be)

    :)

  30. MTU June 30th, 2012 at 7:29 am

    Is Mitchell being called up ?

  31. blake June 30th, 2012 at 7:34 am

    Yea I think Mitchell be be up…..they need the depth wirh Phelps unavailable …..Garcia starting etc….Yanks have a storm to weather here until the ASB….wont be easy…..

  32. MG June 30th, 2012 at 7:35 am

    I didn’t see Warren or Phelps pitch last night (I did see Wade, unfortunately) but Warren hasn’t pitched particularly well at AAA this season, it’s not surprising he was lit up by the White Sox.

    Phelps can most likely do a decent job in the rotation but there isn’t more than one more start for him before CC comes back unless Garcia has a problem (which I doubt because he is throwing the ball much better now than earlier in the season).

    They will probably replace Wade with another arm very shortly (maybe today) but I hope they put Phelps in a spot where he can throw regular innings the rest of the season-he is most likely the only option they will have from the system for a rotation spot next year. If that means bringing in a veteran arm for the long relief role (maybe Ramon Ortiz) then so be it.

  33. blake June 30th, 2012 at 7:36 am

    Buster Olney Buster_ESPN

    @

    Dodgers asked about Lowrie,but he’s now not in current talks. Source says 50-50 shot that Carlos Lee accepts a deal to L.A. for P prospects.

  34. MTU June 30th, 2012 at 7:36 am

    Blake-

    It won’t be but at least they gave themselves a cushion.

    It could disappear very fast though.

  35. MG June 30th, 2012 at 7:39 am

    one more thing about Wade-he pitched really poorly all spring, to the point where some of us were wondering whether he had a spot on the team.

    He started off well but seems to have reverted, that is just the basic nature of relief pitching-they are streaky and you want to play the hot hand for as long as possible.

  36. MTU June 30th, 2012 at 7:47 am

    The goal for now should be to try and salvage a split.

  37. MTU June 30th, 2012 at 7:56 am

    Today’s a hike day.

    Hope Kuroda gets us a W.

    Enjoy the game.

  38. Yankee Trader June 30th, 2012 at 7:57 am

    Good morning-

    Warren actually looked good the first inning and had strike 3 on Dunn but wasn’t given the inside part of the plate by the ump. The announcers said Cashman has received calls by teams interested in trading for him, but were turned down. Don’t suspect Cashman will get those calls on him now.

    The entire bullpen, except for maybe Logan, has really had their struggles collectively. It would be nice if the Yankees had a fireballer with control, in the pen to give the opposing teams a different look, but I don’t think there is one at AAA.

    Sort of surprised the Yankees aren’t bringing up Ramon Ortiz, currently their best starter, in terms of ERA [2.78], they have at AAA. Not that he’s anything special.

  39. Yankee Trader June 30th, 2012 at 8:01 am

    Current AAA stats:

    http://www.milb.com/milb/stats.....8;sid=t531

    BTW-Is Abe Almonte on the DL with a “hammy”?

  40. Yankee Trader June 30th, 2012 at 8:05 am

    “I’m going to learn from this and move on,’’ said a shell-shocked Warren.

    It is so difficult for a young pitcher to break in with the Yankees, especially at the home-run haven that is Yankees Stadium. Phil Hughes knew the challenge Warren faced. He made his major league debut as the starter in a 6-0 loss to the Blue Jays in 2007.

    “There are different challenges here, that’s for sure,’’ Hughes told The Post before the game. “There are guys, Jeremy Bonderman, comes to mind, where the Tigers said, ‘you’re going to be in our rotation no matter what.’’

    Bonderman went 6-19 his rookie season.

    “That’s not going to happen here,’’ Hughes said. “You don’t have that luxury here. It’s kind of like finding that happy medium between growing and developing and, at the same time, pitching well enough where the fans aren’t grumbling at the GM and the manager. It’s different. It’s expensive to go out and sign free-agent pitchers. It’s hasn’t exactly been the smoothest ride for me, but I’ve done enough to stick around.’’

    Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....z1zHGTfu56

  41. randy l. June 30th, 2012 at 8:27 am

    “It’s kind of like finding that happy medium between growing and developing and, at the same time, pitching well enough where the fans aren’t grumbling at the GM and the manager. ”

    Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....z1zHK1EICs

    yankee trader-

    that’s an interesting statement from hughes that is full of meaning that one can take on a variety of levels.

    hughes is saying that developing and winning are two different things and that it is hard to do in yankee stadium. he’s right.

    hughes is also saying that yankee stadium is full of fans who let grardi and cashman know hat they feel about their choices of putting players out there on that stage. hughes is right.

    cashman and girardi do hear fan pressure and it does affect their decision making process. ultimately they make the decision, but they don’t do it in a vacuum. fans as a collective voice have an impact.

    players who can stand this fan scrutiny and hugh standards for yankee players can thrive. this would be guys like nova and cano. but no one knows until they play for the yankees how they will handle the pressure.

    hughes has paid his dues and has i think learned how to be a yankee which is why i think they should sign him before he gets too expensive.they will have no chance if he itches well and becomes a free agent.

  42. sunny615 June 30th, 2012 at 8:37 am

    Last nights game showed just how crappy this bullpen can be. Time to option wade to the minors. Let him work out his problems there.

  43. Yankee Trader June 30th, 2012 at 8:40 am

    Randy-

    I agree on Hughes, and I’d suspect if he still pitches well and stays healthy this year rhe Yankees will look into that this offseason.

    First the blog was clammering for a bat, then this past Wednesday it knocked out our two lefties, perfect YS pitchers, and talk focused on adding an arm. Now the bullpen looks shaky, and most feel Wade is “shot” Cashman had offers for Warren before last night, but I suspect they will dry up.

    Do you trot out your AAA pitchers and expose them in YS, risking the chance to use them as trade chips for a need this season?

  44. 86w183 June 30th, 2012 at 8:48 am

    Will Mr. Aardsma and Mr. Chamberlain please speed up the healing process?

    I don’t think anyone in Scranton is likely to help. Ortiz is probably the best bet, though he’s HR prone.

    Even if they decided to go after a pitcher I’m not sure they have much to offer beyond the best guys in the system. Betances is pitching for Trenton tonight.

  45. RMS June 30th, 2012 at 8:50 am

    cashman and girardi do hear fan pressure and it does affect their decision making process. ultimately they make the decision, but they don’t do it in a vacuum. fans as a collective voice have an impact.

    ————————————————————-
    Bull. Enough said.

  46. ron June 30th, 2012 at 8:53 am

    It is all about putting up acceptable numbers until that development process is complete,and the yankees having no better options.
    Hughes,nova have done well enough to make it,if they did not,they’d be gone.

  47. 86w183 June 30th, 2012 at 8:55 am

    Wade’s workload is about the same as it was last year. He shouldn’t be “gassed”.

    However he has been dreadful lately — last 14 outings, 11 IP, 16 ER (13.09 ERA)

  48. Yankee Trader June 30th, 2012 at 8:57 am

    David Aardsma, threw last Saturday, struck out the last 3 batters in the 2 innings he pitched with a FB around 91. Has he pitched since? Cashman has said he will get a full 30 day rehab stint and is not expected back until July 20th if everything goes well. Interestingly he had some extreme high heat when he was a Mariner. I believe it was around 6 years ago he was clocked at 101 mph.

    Joba-If it weren’t for the ankle he’d already be back. Is he due back late August?

  49. 86w183 June 30th, 2012 at 9:04 am

    Aardsma pitched on Tuesday, 2 innings, 1 unearned run, 2 strikeouts.

    But he’s only facing rookie league hitters

  50. pat June 30th, 2012 at 9:05 am

    Wasn’t it announced yesterday that Aardsma was shut down with elbow pain?

  51. RSM June 30th, 2012 at 9:07 am

    Aardsma shut down due to pain in his surgically repaired elbow.

  52. Yankee Trader June 30th, 2012 at 9:10 am

    With all the possible contending teams that are in need of another starter, this would be a difficult time to acquire another one for the Yankees. A lefty would be nice. Is there one on a non contending team, that is a FA that might not cost the Yankees much besides taking over the remainder of their contract this year?

    I mentioned lefty Liriano, due the remainder of his 5.5M salary, and pitching to a sub 3.00 ERA, 2.87 when I last checked, for the month of June.

    Any other lefties that might be available now?

  53. 86w183 June 30th, 2012 at 9:14 am

    Cliff Lee might be!

  54. Yankee Trader June 30th, 2012 at 9:14 am

    If Aardsma had pain in the elbow, maybe it was only some adhesions breaking down. If that prolongs his getting back to the Yankees until after the TD, then the Yankees will need more BP help and hopefully will pull off a trade soon, as it doesn’t seem they have anyone at AAA other than Igarashi who can bring some heat.

  55. LGY June 30th, 2012 at 9:18 am

    Still annoyed Girardi pulled a Torre on Wade. A short reliever has no business throwing that many pitches. Just reckless with his health.

  56. Yankee Trader June 30th, 2012 at 9:26 am

    86w83-

    Cliff Lee :)

    Good one. Not exactly the trade I was looking to spark interest in, but what the heck. I’ll try and conjure up a trade to acquire Cliff Lee.

    Yankees get Cliff Lee, plus enough money to make Lee a 11-12M pitcher instead of a 25M pitcher, plus catcher Carlos Ruiz and Hunter Pence for:

    Nick Swisher, Russell Martin, Freddy Garcia, Andruw Jones, and any two AAA pitchers not named Banuelos or Phelps.

    Deal or no Deal? Oh, plus Lee gets a suite in YS for his wife so that she cannot risk being “spat” upon.

  57. ron June 30th, 2012 at 9:31 am

    Filling cc,and pettittes spots are going to put a huge strain on the pen.
    The yankees can win the ws with hughes,and nova as your 4,and 5 pitchers,but when you use them as our 2,and 3,not so good,at this point in time.

    Once the yankees figured out their 1-3,with cc,pettitte,and kuroda,and having hughes,and nova as the 4th,and 5th,they started going on a nice run.

  58. jmills June 30th, 2012 at 9:37 am

    We need 3-4 starters but if Adam Lind keeps hitting 2 per game who cares? :) What a wacky season ! I really want to put the wild card thing 6 feet under, bring back Harvey’s bangers and Detroit and winner take all. I wish the Jays were out of town this weekend – have to drive through Toronto. At least the football doesn’t go until tomorrow ( huge Italian contingent both in TO and my home Hamilton.) Go Italia.

  59. Yankee Trader June 30th, 2012 at 9:38 am

    86w183 and Ron-

    What do you suggest the Yankees do to at least try and replace Pettitte for the next 8 weeks and get another BP arm if Aardsma doesn’t come back before the TD? Cashman mentioned Pettitte as coming back September 1st and he’s on the 60 day DL.

  60. tucker June 30th, 2012 at 9:38 am

    Girardi put Wade out there for he 9th knowing full well that he was going to be optioned today. Girardi normally does not burn out relievers that way, but he has done that when they are on their way to AAA the following day.

    So today, both Warren and Wade go down for Mitchell and who else?

    As far as available lefties, Wandy Rodriguez may be available.

  61. randy l. June 30th, 2012 at 9:39 am

    “Bull. Enough said.”

    absolutely.

    the less someone knows, it probably is best to say as little as possible.

    in this particular case, hughes himself, who is the poster child for being thrown into the yankee development/winning at the mlb level cauldron , says that the gm and manager hear fan grumbling.

    of course why would hughes who actually experiences the process firsthand and close up know anything about what he experiences ?

    i was actually quite impressed with how articulate hughes was about the development/winning dilemma that faces girardi and cashman.

    hughes opinion is the opposite of bull.
    he’s right.

  62. Yankee Trader June 30th, 2012 at 9:40 am

    jmills-

    Good morning. Where is Travis Snyder? I believe also that Brett Cecil grew up a Yankees fan. Any interest in trading him to the Yankees? :)

  63. Yankee Trader June 30th, 2012 at 9:45 am

    Brett Cecil did grow up a Yankees fan:

    http://bleacherreport.com/arti.....rett-cecil

  64. jmills June 30th, 2012 at 9:47 am

    Good YT – I don’t know if you want Cecil as I think I can throw harder :) I am enjoying him at the moment though. The Jays are taking a lot of grow up time with Snyder but the optimism is definitely there and we hope to see him soon. Rasmus plays a solid centre and has found himself in the 2 spot. The fun part of me wants to see Moyer up.

  65. Yankee Trader June 30th, 2012 at 9:49 am

    If Wade goes down, it’s probably Igarashi, or Ramon Ortiz. Ortiz to start, with Mitchell in the pen?

  66. austinmac June 30th, 2012 at 9:50 am

    I went to the Rangers/As game last night. Cespedes is a stud. The Yankees should have been on him. The ball comes off his bat at a different velocity.

    I agree that Wade is going to be sent down to re-learn how to get outs. He did it with mirrors last year.

  67. 86w183 June 30th, 2012 at 9:50 am

    YT —

    That’s a very one-sided deal for NY. Philly would only do that for no $$$ and IF they decided to bail on 2012 AND could sign Hamels.

    I have no objection to taking a shot w/ Liriano. He’s very talented and pitching much better of late — last 6 starts 2.41 ERA.

  68. Villa Nova-Ya June 30th, 2012 at 9:52 am

    randy l -

    I’m not sure exactly how much impact fans have on decision making, probably some in a round-about way.

    But I think that players hear the grumbling and either use it to their advantage or shrink under the pressure of constantly hearing they “stink.”

    Hughes probably has the best perspective on this entire situation, having gone through most all of it himself. And he gets it. And what he said about other organizations by referencing Bonderman is spot-on. The shuttle back to Scranton never stops here…

    I think Warren is probably better than what he showed last night. I’d imagine he can take what he did last night and go back to AAA, or come out for another start perhaps, and use it. That’s when we see what Warren has. Can he learn from what happened last night? Can he try to make adjustments?

  69. Yankee Trader June 30th, 2012 at 9:52 am

    86w183-

    Back to Lee. I was joking but if the Phillies absorbed half or more of his remaining contract would you be interested, especially if the last year became non guaranteed and the Phillies paid his buyou?

  70. randy l. June 30th, 2012 at 9:53 am

    as i said before, with sabathia and pettitte out the yankees will be in good shape if they play .500 ball until sabathia comes back.

    injuries to key players make and break seasons.

    the yankees are in good shape to withstand the injuries, but expectations need to be lowered.

    just keep splitting series and they’ll still be right near the top if not in first place when sabathia comes back.

  71. Yankee Trader June 30th, 2012 at 9:55 am

    86w183-

    I just saw your response on Lee above. What would it take for a rental like Liriano?

  72. Yankee Trader June 30th, 2012 at 9:58 am

    Randy-

    Then the Yankees need to beat up on Peavy and Floyd these next two days. I still think they need immediate help in the BP. Garcia at max will pitch around 60-70- pitches on Monday.

  73. randy l. June 30th, 2012 at 10:00 am

    “I’m not sure exactly how much impact fans have on decision making, probably some in a round-about way.”

    think when hughes and kennedy were like 0-15 that year to start the year.

    of course cashman was feeling the heat.

    as long as the yankees are winning there’s no need to think of fans , but when teams start losing a gm better think about fans. the red sox have lost a ton of money with imploding, but they have given the fan base something to hope for by going with some younger players.

    you don’t think the red sox gm looks at revenue streams and fan reactions when he makes decisions ?

    i will give you cashman usually doesn’t have to think about fan reaction because the yankees are in first place. that kind of insulates him from criticism :)

    but fall into third or fourth and it’s a different story.

  74. 86w183 June 30th, 2012 at 10:00 am

    Lee has pitched a lot better than his 0-5 record would indicate, and turns 34 in August. At $ 12 M a year its worth considering, but I can’t see Philly doing that.

    I do like the idea of Liriano but only at a reasonable price like Nunez and Warren and that’s probably not enough…. though they could really use Nunez.

  75. ron June 30th, 2012 at 10:01 am

    The yankees should give a veteran aaa starter like ortiz a shop,and maybe we get lucky.
    The problem is phelps,warren,mitchell are developing.

    Phelps as the longman.

  76. randy l. June 30th, 2012 at 10:04 am

    it might be good with guys like warren to get small tastes of the big leagues with some relief appearances so their first start isn’t their first mlb appearance.

    i don’t think much one way or the other about one start by a rookie especially when it’s the first time he’s been to the big leagues.

  77. 86w183 June 30th, 2012 at 10:06 am

    Ron —

    It make some sense for Phelps to stay in the pen for now and give Ortiz a go. My concern about Ortiz is that he’s HR prone.

    I’d prefer to start Phelps Wednesday.

  78. Yankee Trader June 30th, 2012 at 10:07 am

    I’m not sure Liriano would help, but he is a rental on a team going nowhere, who might not be inclined to resign him and is making the remainder of his $5.5M salary. The Twins GM can ask for the world, but as the TD nears maybe the price comes down. Maybe??????

    Plus teams get no draft compensation anymore for losing a FA. Correct?

  79. Villa Nova-Ya June 30th, 2012 at 10:07 am

    randy l -

    Oh, I recall that year very well!

    They were given this much rope and no more.

    But was it the fans per se, or the losing in general? The fans can’t take the losing, for sure, but the organization can’t afford to lose either. What you say about winning being insulating is absolutely true – lots of flaws can be shoved under the rug if a team continues to win. I just don’t necessarily agree with you that it was the fans being disgruntled that forced Kennedy and Hughes back to AAA.

    It was not working, and Cashman cut bait. The demand to win is greater than the demand to develop. I suspect the front office got impatient with that situation as well, and that more than anything forces the issue.

    But I will say this, if they can’t afford to let guys develop at the ML level, then what do you do? I think you can try some more things on the minor league level, perhaps, but at some point, you’re just facing a better quality of hitter at the ML level, and a different sort of pressure, especially in NY. Heck even that Moore kid from Tampa has struggled this year.

  80. Yankee Trader June 30th, 2012 at 10:16 am

    Warren actually looked good the 1st inning and would have had a 1-2-3 inning with 2 strikeouts if the ump had given hime the inside corner on what looked like a strike 3 pitch. He gets a 4-0 lead , immediately gives up a homer to Pierzynski, then proceeds to “wilt” in the heat of YS.

    Interestinly Jose Quintana, a Yankee last year, after losing the shutout record, the walk record, and giving up a homer[was averaging 0.5 homers/game], settled down.

  81. yankeefeminista June 30th, 2012 at 10:20 am

    If CC is really coming back after the ASB, we should be OK. Phelps goes to the 5th spot and DJ comes in as long relief. Wade gets straightened out in the minors or “rested,” depending on what they feel ails him. He may just be a little fatigued and that is affecting his location. His velocity is still the same though. To compare Warren to Phelps, DJ is kind of silly. Warren is a bit behind those two; he has only recently developed his secondary stuff, so although the Yanks wanted to give him a look, he is less advanced than Phelps and DJ, and needs to have his location working well to succeed, plus trust his secondary stuff, which he clearly didn’t last night. I know Warren’s had a nice run in AAA, but Phelps and DJ are more pinpoint with their secondary stuff. DJ can throw his CB and changeup at will; his issue is sometimes being unablet to command his sinker because of the movement, but he appears to have been doing that lately.

    As for the fans’ grumbling, the Yankees are in big trouble, going forward if they let some disgruntled and uninformed fans affect allowing kids to develop under the bright lights. Teach the fans what development entails. Then, stick to a plan. We have done a pretty good job with Nova and Hughes regardless of the fans’ fickleness regarding the two.

    And yes, YT, Abe Almonte is on the DL with a sore right hammy.

  82. 86w183 June 30th, 2012 at 10:20 am

    gotta run some errands… might stop by during/after the game

    have a day, all

  83. Yankee Trader June 30th, 2012 at 10:21 am

    “Ynakees Bullpen Remains a Surprising Strength”
    written and circulated a few minutes ago by Pinstripe Alley

    http://www.pinstripealley.com/.....g-strength

    I disagree!!

  84. Yankee Trader June 30th, 2012 at 10:25 am

    *Yankees*

    YF- Good morning.

    Are you concerned about the bullpen going forward? Is there a pitcher in AAA who can throw heat with location, the one thing our current bullpen lacks?

  85. Yankee Trader June 30th, 2012 at 10:40 am

    Sorry but have to go run some errands while the temp is below 90, before it soars to 106, the same number the Yankees were probably on pace to win this season before they lost their two lefties, especially Pettitte.

    Until later. Stay cool.

  86. yankeefeminista June 30th, 2012 at 10:42 am

    Good morning, YT. If DRob is healthy, going forward, and C comes back after ASB, I am not overly concerned about the pen. We have an off day Thursday and the ASB after the Boston series. There is no one in AAA right now who I would bring up for their “heat.” Claiborne and Whitley still are not ready to move up. I’d bring up DJ as long man to replace Phelps who I’d move to the rotation.

  87. ron June 30th, 2012 at 10:42 am

    Try to package a warren/phelps/mitchell,maybe some prospects that won’t be position regulars,for a pitcher,maybe a lee using betances.

    Betances is like 24 years old,and i don’t see him making it.
    I’d even trade phelps.

    With cc,nova,hughes,banuelos,and other top pitching prospects,including free agency,i don’t see warren,phelps getting a spot.
    Warren,phelps,and some lower level position players should get us a pettitte replacement.
    Maybe even greinke,using betances.

  88. RSM June 30th, 2012 at 10:49 am

    I wouldn’t assume Philly are sellers.
    There is truly a different mindset in their front office now. They’re hooked on winning, and the attendance and revenues that go with it.
    If they can’t extend Hamels, and I don’t think they will, I don’t see them dealing Lee.

  89. randy l. June 30th, 2012 at 10:57 am

    “As for the fans’ grumbling, the Yankees are in big trouble, going forward if they let some disgruntled and uninformed fans affect allowing kids to develop under the bright lights. Teach the fans what development entails. Then, stick to a plan. We have done a pretty good job with Nova and Hughes regardless of the fans’ fickleness regarding the two.”

    yankee feminista-

    there’s a lot of layers to what you’re saying. i agree with some and disagree with some.

    i believe that the yankees have a fan base that has a collective wisdom that goes back to the time of ruth and gehrig. i can talk with my father about what he saw when he saw warren yesterday and get a view point from someone who’s watched 6-7 generations of yankee players. i’ve seen about five generations myself. add all the people in the biggest fan base of any sports team in history and it would be crazy to ignore the collective wisdom of this crowd.

    however i agree it would be also crazy to pay too much attention to individual fans who may or may not know much about the game.

    there are players who thrive under the spotlight of this fanbase. nettles ,munson, guidry, jeter, posada, mo etc. we’ve seen nova step it up under this pressure. where does this pressure come from?

    surely it’s not juts from yankee management? when a player steps onto that mound and 50,000 fans are watching that’s where the pressure is. i doubt many players are thinking of cashman at that point.

    fans matter, but it is at the macro level in a wisdom of the crowd level. when the whole fan base is behind a player, then you know that player is a keeper.

  90. yankeefeminista June 30th, 2012 at 10:59 am

    It would take a haul to get Greinke; Betances just got demoted to AA, so his value is limited. You’d need Banuelos and two additional A (elite) prospects, likely. Again, we should be fine for the timing being if CC comes back when he is supposed to.

  91. yankeefeminista June 30th, 2012 at 11:05 am

    Randy, they weren’t behind Alex, and he persevered. Nor were they behind Hughes. It is hard to determine whether talent will rise up no matter the obstacles or if makeup delivers talent to the level of success.

    As for the collective wisdom of the fans; I don’t see much wisdom, let alone collective wisdom at Yankee Stadium, going back for many years. Would that those fans could be as wise as their history should make them. However, they are clearly not. Especially not those people who attend games; the wisdom is drowned out by the booing of the knee-jerk and uninformed. Is there a greater primordial wisdom that transcends time and space? Maybe, but hard to quantify that… So, I agree and disagree, as well.

  92. smurfy June 30th, 2012 at 11:07 am

    I wouldn’t panic and give up my development prospects to try to buy a victory. These young pitchers need to taste the competition at this level to focus on what they need to develop. That’s why the bullpen provides a sweet spot.

    Russell’s failed tag does concern me. I think Lou Pinella had it right that his stiff back was the cause. 15 day DL should give him a chance to r&r those spasms. Give Frankie a ray of hope, and see if he and Stew can share the load.

  93. smurfy June 30th, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    he may know his back better than me, and know that he’ll have to keep training anyway, and his batting timing will get stale, and maybe he’ll use a break better later, or not, and we’ve got these young pitchers to work with.

  94. smurfy June 30th, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    Joe G was the same kinda good defense, knew pitching, knew pitchers, marginal hitting, kinda catcher, so he might have a good guess. He’s right to push inside pitching. I was screaming at the screen, almost, for Warren to move Alexei Ramirez, who was all over the plate.

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