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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Garcia: “I need to step up”

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jul 03, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Freddy Garcia wasn’t supposed to matter last year. Remember that? He came into spring training fighting for a spot, nothing guaranteed. He was a backup plan, forced into action because better options — from Cliff Lee to Phil Hughes to Andy Pettitte — didn’t work out.

Two months ago, Garcia was supposed to be irrelevant again. He had signed as a kind of early winter insurance policy, and he’d moved down the pecking order as the Yankees added Hiroki Kuroda, Michael Pineda and Pettitte. He shot himself in the foot with his brutal month of April, and he would have stayed in a mopup role if everything else had gone to plan.

But things didn’t go to plan. Pettitte got hurt, so did CC Sabathia, and now Garcia matters again. Just like he mattered last year.

“I need to step up,” he said. “We’ve got a couple of guys hurt. I want to do good. That’s all, man. I want to pitch good. I’ve got the chance again, and I want to take my opportunity to prove I can be in the starting rotation.”

Garcia looked good last night. He wasn’t overwhelming, but he looked a lot like he did in 2011. He gave the Yankees what they needed, and he stirred at least a little bit of hope that he could do it again this weekend, and again after the all-star break.

“Really good job,” Joe Girardi said. “Freddy, not making a start for a long time, throwing as many as 35 pitches, and then building him up a little bit more. I thought he did a tremendous job.”

Garcia’s an important piece in trying to bridge this new gap in the rotation. Sabathia should be back after the all-star break, which means the Yankees should need only one start from David Phelps. It’s Garcia who’s best poised to fill the back of the rotation until Pettitte returns. If he does what he did last year — and the rest of the rotation stays in step — the Yankees might weather this rotation crisis as well as they weathered the bullpen losses of Mariano Rivera and Dave Robertson.

“I’ve been feeling good,” Garcia said. “Last month, last couple of weeks I’ve been feeling great. … A couple of guys got hurt and I need to step up and pitch the way I pitch. I’m looking forward to starting.”

Associated Press photo

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352 Responses to “Garcia: “I need to step up””

  1. blake July 3rd, 2012 at 9:00 am

    A is Wandy Rodriguez – no interest B is Greinke – interest at right price C is Hamels – interest at right price D is Dempster -no interest E. is Garza- no real interest

    I think Greinke and Hamels are true upgrades and coukd make a difference in a playoff series….so Id have interest if the price is fair for rentals…..as expected though the price now is very high…..if they want to trade those two then thatll come down this month. My guess is that other teams will be more aggressive for those two.

    My guesses…..Greinke to Atlanta…..Hamels to either Texas or Detroit.

    Seattle SHOULD call Texas and offer Felix to them for a big package……they wont though cause they are dumb.

  2. blake July 3rd, 2012 at 9:01 am

    You did step up Freddy….you didnt lose that game……I hage a lot of respect for the way Garcka has handled himself the last couple of years……he very easily coukd have went ro the pen and pouted…..not kept himself sharp….but he did just the opposite …..thats a leader and good example

  3. Shame Spencer July 3rd, 2012 at 9:06 am

    blake July 3rd, 2012 at 9:01 am

    You did step up Freddy….you didnt lose that game……I hage a lot of respect for the way Garcka has handled himself the last couple of years……he very easily coukd have went ro the pen and pouted.
    ——————-

    Or retired at age 30 :D

  4. blake July 3rd, 2012 at 9:11 am

    If I were Jack Z…..Id call up Daniels and offer him Felix for Profar, Olt, and Perez…..the Mariners get three really good prospects and save 20 million a year that they could spend this winter…….they could almost sign Greinke with the savings from trading Felix……

    Texas immediately would become a potential juggernaut when they got healthy……

    I hope something like that doesnt happen…..but it could if Seattle was smart and Texas wanted to win this year badly enough…..

  5. Yankee Trader July 3rd, 2012 at 9:13 am

    Blake and Tackleberry-

    Hamels will get Contract C-Lee’s contract
    Greinke will llikely get contract B-Cains contract.

    Won’t therefore fit within budget so no dice. My guess also is Braves have chips to get Greinke, and will if he agrees to an extension. Hamels will test FA unless the Dodgers trade for him now and get an extension.

    No for Rodriguez, especially since the last year becomes a player option if traded.

    Dempster, if Cubs chip in money and if looked on as a pure rental, with no loss of a prime prospect could be worth it.

    Garza makes snse, but Theo will want and possibly get a 4 player return.

  6. Bronx Jeers July 3rd, 2012 at 9:16 am

    Just thank heavens I’m not the Yank GM cause I woulda traded Freddy away a long time ago.

  7. blake July 3rd, 2012 at 9:16 am

    “Greinke will llikely get contract B-Cains contract.”

    I dont know if he will get quite Matt Cain money because the big market teams.may shy away and because hes just not as consistent as Cain has been…..more make up questions etc…..but you never lnow on the open market

  8. Yankee Trader July 3rd, 2012 at 9:18 am

    The other possibility is if Amaro can trade off more pieces now, like Blanton, Polanco, Victorino, they might be able to extend Hamels.

  9. Shame Spencer July 3rd, 2012 at 9:20 am

    blake – Spot on with Seattle. Hanging onto Felix for as long as they have has been a mistake. The M’s aren’t going to be good for quite a while with Texas and the Angels in that division. The Angels have been a well run club for a while now.. and Texas looks to stay competitive. How competent they are I can’t say..I’d like to see their ownership navigate through a couple more off seasons first. But I don’t think anyone can doubt the drive to win is there. Can’t say the same regarding the M’s when it comes to both intellect or the will to win.

  10. Doc Iac July 3rd, 2012 at 9:21 am

    robertson stepped up and took blame for the loss, as i expected he would he does make excuses and thats why i believe he will be great for a while

  11. MTU July 3rd, 2012 at 9:21 am

    Jeers-

    Woulda done the same.

    :(

  12. MTU July 3rd, 2012 at 9:23 am

    Have a good day people.

    Stay cool (if you can).

    ;)

  13. Doc Iac July 3rd, 2012 at 9:25 am

    Doc Iac July 3rd, 2012 at 9:21 am

    robertson stepped up and took blame for the loss, as i expected he would he does make excuses and thats why i believe he will be great for a while

    should say does not make excuses

  14. Yankee Trader July 3rd, 2012 at 9:28 am

    Garcia did a good job and kept the team in the ballgame. No walks, However, I believe if either Garcia or Phelps move into the 5th spot upon CC’s return, with the schedule and make up dates, that both won’t be able to make up for the number of quality innings that Pettitte provided. Pettitte not due back until September 1st.

    .500 ball is OK now until CC returns. What happens if someone else gets that August ‘tired arm?’

    I wonder then if the Yankees might surprise us and get another starter before the trade deadline?

  15. blake July 3rd, 2012 at 9:29 am

    Seattle needs positions players…..if they can turn Felix in to 2 or 3 of those and save his salary to spend elsewhere then they are crazy to not do that IMO. Yes they can afford Felix…..but clearly they arent winning with him…..

  16. blake July 3rd, 2012 at 9:32 am

    “I wonder then if the Yankees might surprise us and get another starter before the trade deadline?”

    You never know…..if they do a big move then I think they need offense more than they need pitching but ive been saying that for awhile. Their pitching is good enough if it they can get everybody healthy…….

    Unless they have another starter go down I dont see them paying the price to get a big pitcher (although I do think if Hamels is available Cashman may man crush on him)……

  17. Yankee Trader July 3rd, 2012 at 9:32 am

    MTU-

    See ya around. Have a great day.

    Seattle should definitely see what they could get for King Felix. They apparently have some major league near-ready pitchers in the minors. They need more offense. Compass Rosy-what say you?

  18. Yankee Trader July 3rd, 2012 at 9:38 am

    I’ve got to go, but there will be some August re-inforcements in Joba, Romine, and quite possibly Aardsma if his elbow discomfort is only due to the breakdown f some adhesions after surgery.

    I noticed that Gardner is out of his restrictive brace, so hopefully he’ll be back before the trading deadline, and be able to contribute at 100% capacity, allowed to steal bases without fear of reinjury.

    Have a great day all.

  19. randy l. July 3rd, 2012 at 9:38 am

    “The M’s aren’t going to be good for quite a while with Texas and the Angels in that division.”

    the mariners need to change their ball park if they are going to get any consistent offense.

  20. Tackelberry July 3rd, 2012 at 9:45 am

    Think of our outfield if we had Melky and Austin Jackson out there now.

  21. Doc Iac July 3rd, 2012 at 9:50 am

    ESPN Stats & Info ?@ESPNStatsInfo

    A.J. Burnett goes for his 9th straight win today. Which pitch has keyed his success? http://es.pn/MG1s5I

  22. Giuseppe Franco July 3rd, 2012 at 9:56 am

    Getting Gardner back would obviously be a boost but I would imagine that it’s going to take some time for him to shake the rust off and be comfortable playing his game without the fear of re-aggravating that elbow.

  23. randy l. July 3rd, 2012 at 9:57 am

    “A.J. Burnett goes for his 9th straight win today. ”

    now that’s kind of weird.

    i think this deserves some though before coming up with a conclusion.

    i know what my immediate thought is, but that’s probably too simplistic.

  24. Giuseppe Franco July 3rd, 2012 at 10:00 am

    Melky was not the same player in NY that he is now. Not even close.

    The fact is that he didn’t truly commit himself until he hit rock bottom in ATL.

    And there would be no Granderson if they still had Austin Jackson. Given the numbers Granderson has produced in pinstripes Cashman would make that trade again without hesitation.

  25. mick July 3rd, 2012 at 10:00 am

    “A.J. Burnett goes for his 9th straight win today. ”
    ==============================
    doubt he’d be doing that here, with a better team….

  26. There Will Never Be Another Mo July 3rd, 2012 at 10:02 am

    Moving day. Mason Williams to Tampa. J.R. Murphy and Segdin to AA. I imagine Sanchez and Austin are close behind. I also think Melky Mesa might see AAA with his recent surge and reducing his K rate from 33% to 20%.

    Chase Headly for RF 2013.

  27. Hassey July 3rd, 2012 at 10:03 am

    Amazing – I would have thought it would be the opposite, but the older I get, the more these kinds of losses take out of me. Paging Trisha Pinstripe, paging Trisha Pinstripe, customer in aisle 6 needs a Hallmark moment

  28. There Will Never Be Another Mo July 3rd, 2012 at 10:05 am

    I could potentially see a LF platoon of Gardner and Melky Mesa. Granderson in CF. And then as for RF, they will need to be creative over the offseason.

    As for pitching, hold the course right now. For 2012, C.C. should be back, and either Garcia or Phelps should be adequate. Long term, it comes down to what Banuelos and Pineda show (as well as if Phelps steps up). Still like dark horse candidate Nuno – AA pitcher of the week. Potential crafty lefties have a way of showing up and sticking around for awhile.

  29. mick July 3rd, 2012 at 10:05 am

    short memory is the answer.

  30. There Will Never Be Another Mo July 3rd, 2012 at 10:07 am

    Amazing – I would have thought it would be the opposite, but the older I get, the more these kinds of losses take out of me.

    ******

    I second that. It is just anytime you lose it in the post 6th inning, especially on guys you are used to doing it, Tex’s defense, DRob’s relief (though not of late). The loss last week to Chicago with the Viciedo HR and then the Atlanta game were there were all kinds of miscues on that Tuesday night stay with you.

  31. There Will Never Be Another Mo July 3rd, 2012 at 10:09 am

    mick July 3rd, 2012 at 10:05 am
    short memory is the answer.

    *****

    Exactly. That is probably what Dr. Mariano Rivera would prescribe.

  32. mick July 3rd, 2012 at 10:09 am

    Joba_62 Ur time is now, embrace it and never stop dreaming! SMILE! LOVE!
    =================================================

    So glad Joba is back and leaving these inspirational messages.

  33. There Will Never Be Another Mo July 3rd, 2012 at 10:15 am

    Austin, Williams, and Sanchez have been promoted to Tampa according to Josh Norris.

  34. There Will Never Be Another Mo July 3rd, 2012 at 10:16 am

    Props to Ramon Flores. Hitting around .293 since hitting near mendoza line in May.

  35. DONNYBROOK July 3rd, 2012 at 10:19 am

    - YANKEES BULLPEN REPORT -

    (1) BOONE LOGAN – APPEARED IN 6 OF PREVIOUS 12 GAMES. 2012 TOTAL = 40 OF 79 GAMES.

    (2) CLAY RAPADA – APPEARED IN 7 OF PREVIOUS 12 GAMES.

    (3) CODY EPPLEY – APPEARED IN 6 OF PREVIOUS 12 GAMES.

    (4) DAVID ROBERTSON – APPEARED IN 6 OF PREVIOUS 10 GAMES.

  36. Shame Spencer July 3rd, 2012 at 10:33 am

    RIP Andy Griffith :(

  37. retire51 July 3rd, 2012 at 10:39 am

    Why is this story not mentioned on this blog. I still read this blog everyday, but it is not NEARLY as thorough as it was 3-4 years ago. If I wanted to read about the big stories I could stick to ESPN.

    http://www.baseballamerica.com.....s-torrens/

  38. choochoo July 3rd, 2012 at 10:44 am

    Melky Cabrera didn’t have exactly have a dismal season in 2009 when he was the starting centerfielder on a World Championship Team. He hit .274, had 14 homers, and drove in 66 runs. He also performed well in the post season.
    His numbers in Atlanta, I firmly believe, are attributable to his signficant disdain fior the trade and the fact that he missed New York. He was also still a very young guy at the time–and still is. He rebounded very well in Kansas City and then took off like crazy this year. Arod asked management to bring him back, and they could have done so for a song before he signed with Kansas City.
    Conversely the local hero on this site, Brett Gardner, has never approached the health, power numbers, baseball instincts and overall skill that Melky possessed even then and 10 times more now. Has anyone forgotten the hesitancy and indecision Brett has virtually anytime he needs to steal a base? The team wins without Brett because he’s not that important of a player to begin with. It is also very questionable if Brett can ever maintain his health. for one, I doubt that he can. I know for sure he can’t hit. That’s evident.

  39. There Will Never Be Another Mo July 3rd, 2012 at 10:45 am

    Might as well as stir the hornet’s nest, but Joel Sherman did it first. Please note that Safeco has somewhat similar RF dimensions to YS, so no real excuse (it is why Jack Z was hunting for left handed hitting before):

    As Larry Stone of the Seattle Times pointed out, Jesus Montero had one homer and one RBI in June (for the record, 372 players had at least two RBIs). Yes, Montero hits in a bad lineup and in a pitcher-friendly home park. Still, his OPS was down to .669. Plus, Hector Noesi is 2-10 with a 5.69 ERA (0-3 with an 8.15 ERA in seven starts away from Safeco). Obviously with Michael Pineda and Jose Campos hurt, the Yanks can’t currently look good in this trade. But the struggles of the Mariners duo mitigates some of the sting.

    Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....z1zZTuXhju

  40. blake July 3rd, 2012 at 10:53 am

    “RIP Andy Griffith”

    Very sad day for me…one.of.my favorites shows ever

  41. blake July 3rd, 2012 at 10:56 am

    Yankees Notes: Swisher, Granderson, Cabrera, Sheets

    By Ben Nicholson-Smith [July 3 at 9:20am CST]

    Nick Swisher hits free agency this coming offseason and Curtis Granderson’s contract expires following the 2013 season, so the Yankees face questions about the composition of their outfield at the same time that they’re aiming to lower payroll below the $189MM luxury tax threshold. Joel Sherman discusses what he calls a looming outfield deficiency in his latest column at the New York Post. The highlights:

    There is “pretty much zero possibility” the Yankees will retain Swisher if they are serious about lowering payroll below $189MM by 2014, Sherman writes. Swisher has “done a hell of a job” in New York, GM Brian Cashman told Sherman. The Yankees’ best outfield prospects still need minor league seasoning. Immediate solutions are “not coming from within,” Cashman said. Sherman suggests the Yankees don’t want to reunite with Melky Cabrera, the former Yankee outfielder who’s now enjoying success in San Francisco as he approaches free agency. Cashman said the Yankees are not looking to address future outfield issues at the upcoming trade deadline, however. “You would like to have security and a comfort level. But we are not going to find that now, so why worry about it?” The Yankees offered Ben Sheets a minor league contract after watching him throw, Sherman reports. The Mets didn’t have interest in Sheets, who signed with the Braves.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com

  42. austinmac July 3rd, 2012 at 10:57 am

    Sorry to hear about Andy Griffith. That was a fabulous show. Certainly it was one of the best comedies of that era.

  43. blake July 3rd, 2012 at 11:03 am

    “Certainly it was one of the best comedies of that era”

    Any era!

  44. Rich in NJ July 3rd, 2012 at 11:10 am

    The “Andy Griffith Show” was definitely a mainstay of my childhood, with a cast of memorable characters.

    RIP

  45. DONNYBROOK July 3rd, 2012 at 11:18 am

    Griffith and Van Dyke ruled the 60′s Sitcoms. The 70′s was “Happy Days” with Ron Howard being the common thread, and “All In The Family”. You then get into the spin off trash, “Laverne and Shirley”, “Mork and Mindy”, and Ritter’s ” 3′s Company”. TV has been inna downward spiral for a Long, Long, time.

  46. Rich in NJ July 3rd, 2012 at 11:20 am

    As for the Sherman piece, given three year age difference, I think the Yankees should strongly consider signing Melky and trading Granderson in the offseason.

  47. Doc Iac July 3rd, 2012 at 11:22 am

    DONNYBROOK July 3rd, 2012 at 11:18 am

    Griffith and Van Dyke ruled the 60?s Sitcoms. The 70?s was “Happy Days” with Ron Howard being the common thread, and “All In The Family”. You then get into the spin off trash, “Laverne and Shirley”, “Mork and Mindy”, and Ritter’s ” 3?s Company”. TV has been inna downward spiral for a Long, Long, time.

    —-

    dont forget cheers, that was a great show

  48. MG July 3rd, 2012 at 11:24 am

    RIP, Andy Griffith-he had a long and wonderful life, including marrying a 27 year old when he was 55.

  49. Rich in NJ July 3rd, 2012 at 11:26 am

    I would add “Mary Tyler Moore,” “M*A*S*H,” and “Bob Newhart” to those ’70s shows.

  50. DONNYBROOK July 3rd, 2012 at 11:26 am

    “Cheers” was the 80′s.

  51. MG July 3rd, 2012 at 11:29 am

    Jesus Montero is 4 for his last 36 with 0 RBI and 12 K’s.

    they just don’t make generational bats like they used to, maybe it’s the wood…

  52. RadioKev July 3rd, 2012 at 11:33 am

    It would be really nice if Phelps steps up to take Andy’s spot in the rotation. I’d rather not deal all of our prospects for rentals.

    Also nice to see the kids get the bounce up today, throughout the system.

    http://web.yesnetwork.com/news.....;oid=36019

  53. Rich in NJ July 3rd, 2012 at 11:34 am

    If the Yankees had Posada in his prime, I would understand the continual need by some to disparage Montero because they really would have no use for him at catcher. But our catchers kind of suck, so idea that he wouldn’t be an upgrade here, if not this year, then soon, is completely misplaced. Plus, he would still be a valuable trade asset, which again, is something the Yankees’ current catchers are not.

  54. Hassey July 3rd, 2012 at 11:35 am

    In the Pantheon of great sitcoms from the late 70s and early 80s, I would also include “Soap”

  55. Bronx Jeers July 3rd, 2012 at 11:38 am

    Given the numbers Granderson has produced in pinstripes Cashman would make that trade again without hesitation.

    —————————————
    I think as of right now, he’d hesitate. 3 months ago? no

  56. Rich in NJ July 3rd, 2012 at 11:41 am

    They probably wouldn’t trade for Granderson again if they knew how well-targeted the new CBA would be at one team. It’s really not about production as much as it is about age and contract.

  57. RadioKev July 3rd, 2012 at 11:41 am

    Jeers,

    Because Grandy is in a slump? Nothing compared to Jackson’s season last year or Kennedy’s struggles this year.

  58. DONNYBROOK July 3rd, 2012 at 11:43 am

    - FAVORITE ANDY GRIFFITH EPISODE -

    The one where Opie shoots\kills the momma bird with his slingshot, and Andy mandates that Opie raise the young’ins.

  59. Wave Your Hat July 3rd, 2012 at 11:43 am

    The reason some people are disparaging Montero right now is because first, he isn’t doing that well right now, and second, because some other people knocked the Yanks ad nauseum for making the trade.

  60. jpmatrixfan88 July 3rd, 2012 at 11:44 am

    Blake, Seattle IS dumb. The Yankees offered Montero, Banuelos, Betances for him before the Pineda trade went down, maybe even one more player as well. And they said no. Guess they are not that dumb, but they should unload Felix and replenish the farm.

  61. randy l. July 3rd, 2012 at 11:44 am

    “they just don’t make generational bats like they used to, maybe it’s the wood…”

    i assume you can read official mlb stats

    Sortable Batting
    RK PLAYER TEAM AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG OBP SLG OPS
    1 Joe Mauer MIN 134 25 52 10 0 3 27 1 1 18 14 .388 .461 .530 .990
    2 Kelly Shoppach BOS 88 13 23 9 1 4 12 1 0 8 34 .261 .356 .523 .879
    3 A.J. Pierzynski CHW 242 36 70 8 3 14 45 0 0 16 31 .289 .333 .521 .854
    4 Jesus Montero SEA 122 13 38 5 0 6 15 0 0 6 23 .311 .341 .500 .841
    5 Jarrod Saltalamacchia BOS 198 29 49 13 0 14 33 0 0 15 58 .247 .301 .525 .826
    6 Mike Napoli TEX 152 24 39 5 2 7 22 0 0 18 53 .257 .345 .454 .799
    7 Lou Marson CLE 84 14 24 5 2 0 6 3 0 14 19 .286 .390 .393 .783
    8 Ryan Doumit MIN 105 7 32 6 0 2 10 0 0 7 18 .305 .353 .419 .772
    9 Matt Wieters BAL 236 29 57 13 0 11 36 1 0 28 46 .242 .331 .436 .767
    10 Alex Avila DET 176 21 45 10 1 5 23 2 0 22 48 .256 .335 .409 .744
    RK PLAYER TEAM AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG OBP SLG OPS
    11 Carlos Santana CLE 175 25 41 10 0 4 24 2 1 37 46 .234 .361 .360 .721
    12 J.P. Arencibia TOR 224 28 50 11 0 11 38 1 0 11 68 .223 .264 .420 .683
    13 Russell Martin NYY 184 20 34 9 0 8 20 1 0 26 40 .185 .306 .364 .670
    http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/b...../minpa/100

  62. Tackelberry July 3rd, 2012 at 11:46 am

    Very sad to hear about Andy Griffith. LIked his shows, and his commercials for Ritz Crackers. “Everything’s better when it sits on a Ritz. MMMMMMMM! Goood Cracker!!!!!”

    RIP Andy.

  63. Tackelberry July 3rd, 2012 at 11:48 am

    I would add “Mary Tyler Moore,” “M*A*S*H,” and “Bob Newhart” to those ’70s shows.

    —————————————————————-

    Also loved The Jeffersons and Barney Miller

  64. Rich in NJ July 3rd, 2012 at 11:48 am

    “The reason some people are disparaging Montero right now is because first, he isn’t doing that well right now, and second, because some other people knocked the Yanks ad nauseum for making the trade.”

    If it’s about people knocking the trade (which is kind of weird because I would have thought tolerance for disagreement should be fairly high), then the fact that one is still playing and the other is recovering from an injury that doesn’t have a very high rate of return to prior form makes the issue moot for now.

  65. Wave Your Hat July 3rd, 2012 at 11:49 am

    “then the fact that one is still playing and the other is recovering from an injury that doesn’t have a very high rate of return to prior form makes the issue moot for now.”

    The issue is not exactly moot…

  66. Wave Your Hat July 3rd, 2012 at 11:50 am

    “4 Jesus Montero SEA 122 13 38 5 0 6 15 0 0 6 23 .311 .341 .500 .841″

    Hey randy l, pretty good but you have to admit the trend is not your friend right now.

  67. DONNYBROOK July 3rd, 2012 at 11:50 am

    If Joe Mauer was a Yankee, he’d be regarded as a combination A-Rod\Pavano. Posada’s numbers\ longevity, make Mauer look Extremely Weak.

  68. Rich in NJ July 3rd, 2012 at 11:51 am

    “The issue is not exactly moot…”

    It should be. One is playing, one isn’t. What’s to discuss?

  69. RadioKev July 3rd, 2012 at 11:53 am

    Considering Montero has had more at bats as a DH than a C, those numbers don’t tell the whole story. And his DH splits are pretty bad.

    I’m not rooting for the guy to fail, I just think we should be honest with ourselves — especially if we’re trying to compare what Montero would be doing for us as a Yankee.

    He’d most likely be a DH, because organizations don’t believe in his catching ability.

  70. blake July 3rd, 2012 at 11:54 am

    “The one where Opie shoots\kills the momma bird with his slingshot, and Andy mandates that Opie raise the young’ins.”

    I believe that was Andys favorite as well….not sure. There were so many good ones….I think the loaded goat may be my favorite aside from the Ernest T ones.

  71. blake July 3rd, 2012 at 11:56 am

    Jack Z is going to hold Felix until the ship officially sinks and hes shown the door

  72. RadioKev July 3rd, 2012 at 11:56 am

    What’s moot is every player involved in the trade is disappointing thus far. Obviously both organizations had an eye on the future when they made this trade.

  73. Wave Your Hat July 3rd, 2012 at 11:58 am

    “It should be. One is playing, one isn’t. What’s to discuss?”

    You have to be kidding. How about, just as a hypothesis mind you and not in any way reflective of my actual views, I’d rather have a sore shouldered potential ace than a slow platoon hitter who may or may not be a catcher and who may or may not get traded or sent down to the minors?

  74. DONNYBROOK July 3rd, 2012 at 11:58 am

    With all the Hype supplied by the Montero Huggers, (who have disappeared around here), you guys are losing sight of the fact he is Only 22 yrs old. Takes time at the MLB level, especially at the Demanding position of C.

  75. NJ Pete July 3rd, 2012 at 11:58 am

    Hey Randy, looks like Seattle has 2 guys named Jesus Montero and the other on really sucks.
    Sortable Batting
    RK PLAYER TEAM AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG OBP SLG OPS
    1 David Ortiz BOS 262 51 79 23 0 18 47 0 1 39 40 .302 .389 .595 .985
    2 Edwin Encarnacion TOR 163 28 45 7 0 12 32 6 1 17 30 .276 .358 .540 .898
    3 Billy Butler KC 251 26 73 12 0 12 41 0 1 20 45 .291 .356 .482 .838
    4 Travis Hafner CLE 132 14 32 6 1 6 23 0 0 26 25 .242 .380 .439 .819
    5 Adam Dunn CHW 181 26 37 6 0 14 39 0 0 35 84 .204 .333 .470 .803
    6 Kendrys Morales LAA 204 24 58 9 0 8 28 0 0 12 50 .284 .326 .446 .772
    7 Michael Young TEX 156 18 42 8 2 2 18 1 1 5 24 .269 .290 .385 .675
    8 Luke Scott TB 188 18 39 9 0 9 36 2 0 12 42 .207 .269 .399 .668
    9 Delmon Young DET 188 12 48 9 0 4 23 0 0 5 37 .255 .270 .367 .637
    10 Jesus Montero SEA 147 11 29 7 0 2 13 0 2 7 42 .197 .236 .286 .521

  76. Rich in NJ July 3rd, 2012 at 11:58 am

    In 1997, Posada in his age 25 season in 225 PA: .250 .359 .410 .768

    And we’re writing off Montero in his age 22 season?

  77. Shame Spencer July 3rd, 2012 at 11:58 am

    especially if we’re trying to compare what Montero would be doing for us as a Yankee.

    ——————-

    Yea, it’s better to look at it this way than thinking about what Pineda would be doing for us right now as a Yankee.

  78. blake July 3rd, 2012 at 11:58 am

    I could post Matt Kemps, CarGos, and Edgar Martinez’s nunbers throufh a similar about of games as Montero again but Im tired of the debate…..judging really anything about Montero at this point is premature. Hes still got a chance ro be a special hitter IMO…..whether he becomes one or not is TBD.

  79. Rich in NJ July 3rd, 2012 at 11:59 am

    “You have to be kidding. How about, just as a hypothesis mind you and not in any way reflective of my actual views, I’d rather have a sore shouldered potential ace than a slow platoon hitter who may or may not be a catcher and who may or may not get traded or sent down to the minors?”

    You have to be kidding. Oh wait… you’re not.

  80. Shame Spencer July 3rd, 2012 at 11:59 am

    ‘Sore shoulder’ is being a bit kind, isn’t it? The kid had surgery.

  81. Rich in NJ July 3rd, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    ‘Sore shoulder’ is being a bit kind, isn’t it? The kid had surgery.

    __

    Apart from that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?

  82. Wave Your Hat July 3rd, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    Hey Shame,

    After surgery isn’t your shoulder sore?

  83. Wave Your Hat July 3rd, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    “You have to be kidding. Oh wait… you’re not”

    Strive for originality. It’s difficult but it improves everyone’s blog experience.

  84. blake July 3rd, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    A potential never be the same shoulder in addition to being a sore shoulder…..

  85. randy l. July 3rd, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    “Hey randy l, pretty good but you have to admit the trend is not your friend right now.”

    the slump coincided with inter league playing.

    players have slumps.

    jeter just finished a .608 OPS for june following a .692OPS for may.

    the fact is when montero catches he’s in the top four in the american league in OPS.

    he’s also the only rookie in the past 30 years or so to catch a no hitter. has an excellent CERA

    he’s 23.

    what’s not to like ?

  86. Wave Your Hat July 3rd, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    dang it blake, be positive.

  87. Wave Your Hat July 3rd, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    “what’s not to like ?”

    Fact is, I like him just fine. And if he turns out to be an average catcher the Yanks made a mistake.

  88. Shame Spencer July 3rd, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    DKnobler ?@DKnobler

    Pirates announce they’ve sent Jose Tabata to AAA Indy. Call up Gorkys Hernandez to replace him.

  89. RadioKev July 3rd, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    he’s also the only rookie in the past 30 years or so to catch a no hitter.
    ————————

    He did such a great job throwing all those balls back to the pitcher.

    Come on.

  90. blake July 3rd, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    At this moment in time Id much rather have a struggling but healthy talented young hitter than a pitcher that may never be the same again……both because of the unpredictability with labrum tears and because the Yankees need offense mkre than pitching.

  91. Wave Your Hat July 3rd, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    Or even an acceptable everyday catcher.

  92. Shame Spencer July 3rd, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    Wave Your Hat July 3rd, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    Hey Shame,

    After surgery isn’t your shoulder sore?

    —————

    Lol, yeah I’m sure it is.. but your post sort of made it sound like the kid just had a case of a sore shoulder… not a torn ligament that needed to be surgically repaired. Not exactly a tomato tomAto situation IMO, but whatever floats your boat.

  93. Shame Spencer July 3rd, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    Rich in NJ July 3rd, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    ‘Sore shoulder’ is being a bit kind, isn’t it? The kid had surgery.

    __

    Apart from that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?

    —————

    :lol:

  94. Jerkface July 3rd, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    After surgery isn’t your shoulder sore?

    Yea but ‘sore shouldered potential ace’ conjures images of a player that may or may not have surgery in the future. When in reality the potential ace lost his pitch and then had real shoulder surgery.

  95. RadioKev July 3rd, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    blake July 3rd, 2012 at 12:05 pm
    At this moment in time Id much rather have a struggling but healthy talented young hitter than a pitcher that may never be the same again……both because of the unpredictability with labrum tears and because the Yankees need offense mkre than pitching.
    ————–

    Do the Yankees need offense more than pitching?

  96. blake July 3rd, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    Wave,

    Im just rrying to be realistic …..if he had had TJS then itd be different because of the success rate of that procedure.

  97. Rich in NJ July 3rd, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    “Strive for originality. It’s difficult but it improves everyone’s blog experience.”

    You should strive for realism. It’s a much lower bar, or should be.

  98. Wave Your Hat July 3rd, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    Sure blake, and you could trade Nolan Ryan for Jim Fregosi and if a week later Nolan Ryan blew out his shoulder I guess you also made a bad deal, but so what?

  99. blake July 3rd, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    “Do the Yankees need offense more than pitching”

    IMO yes…both now and going forward and Ive been saying that since last year.

  100. Wave Your Hat July 3rd, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    “You should strive for realism. It’s a much lower bar, or should be.”

    You have a sour, mud throwing streak.

  101. LGY July 3rd, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    Whether you believe in Montero’s future or not is just a petty side issue many are using to distract themselves from the fact that Cashman screwed up big time this winter.

    Cash loaded his gun with his best bullet and missed the mark by a wide margin (like he has done repeatedly when it comes to pitching in his time as GM).

    The opportunity cost lost in the deal was massive.

  102. Shame Spencer July 3rd, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    Wave Your Hat July 3rd, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    Sure blake, and you could trade Nolan Ryan for Jim Fregosi and if a week later Nolan Ryan blew out his shoulder I guess you also made a bad deal, but so what?

    —————-

    Except that’s not what happened and we did not trade for Nolan Ryan.

    This is fun! Keep going, I’m having a good time!

  103. blake July 3rd, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    “Sure blake, and you could trade Nolan Ryan for Jim Fregosi and if a week later Nolan Ryan blew out his shoulder I guess you also made a bad deal, but so what?”

    I coukd understand wanting Pineda more when he was healthy….but I thought we were talking about now…..and now Id much rather have Montero.

  104. Shame Spencer July 3rd, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    Wave Your Hat July 3rd, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    Or even an acceptable everyday catcher.

    —————-

    This would be nice. Can we make Nunez a catcher? :lol:

  105. Rich in NJ July 3rd, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    What might have happened (a Nolan Ryan surgery that didn’t occur) isn’t the same as what did happen (Pineda had surgery).

    I guess mind games can serve as a defense mechanism.

  106. Shame Spencer July 3rd, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    DKnobler ?@DKnobler

    Interesting news from @JonHeymanCBS, who quotes former teammate as saying Greinke would like to pitch for Braves. http://cbsprt.co/MTncZK

  107. Jerkface July 3rd, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    Did this hypothetical Nolan Ryan have a history of injury? Did he miraculously find the pitch that put him over the top only a year before? How much did he pitch before he was acquired?

  108. Wave Your Hat July 3rd, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    JF, blake and Shame-

    Feel free to amend my earlier hypothesis from “sore shouldered” to surgically repaired torn labrum shoulder”. I wasn’t trying to slip anything by, I just don’t think it scans as well.

  109. RadioKev July 3rd, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    blake July 3rd, 2012 at 12:08 pm
    “Do the Yankees need offense more than pitching”

    IMO yes…both now and going forward and Ive been saying that since last year.
    ———————-

    I think this string or injuries has shown you that the Yankees still need pitching.

    Can we rely on CC for the remainder of his contract? You sure hope so, but the doubts start to creep in.

    Hughes and Nova are both showing great strides, which is encouraging.

    And then what? Banuelos and Betances both took huge steps backwards. Campos has stalled. Warren got lit up, Mitchell’s having a so-so season, and Phelps has never actually projected to be a significant rotation piece.

  110. Jerkface July 3rd, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    We’ll see how well you scan when I’m done faxing you!

  111. Rich in NJ July 3rd, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    “You have a sour, mud throwing streak.”

    From the guy who introduced a personal element to the exchange.

  112. Shame Spencer July 3rd, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    I know what Wave’s point is – it’s that you can’t predict injury so you can’t call it a bad trade based on that alone. Fair. Completely fair.

    But many here already assumed we (the Yankees) took on a greater risk by trading for a young pitcher as opposed to a young position player.. since young pitchers are more prone to injury (something parroted by Cash and the injury metrics).

  113. Rich in NJ July 3rd, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    “Whether you believe in Montero’s future or not is just a petty side issue many are using to distract themselves from the fact that Cashman screwed up big time this winter.”

    Plus, as I think you mentioned, even if you liked the trade, how can anyone defend how they handled him, having him continue to compete for a rotation spot with diminished velo and recent shoulder soreness.

    What was the rush?

  114. Wave Your Hat July 3rd, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    “Did this hypothetical Nolan Ryan have a history of injury? Did he miraculously find the pitch that put him over the top only a year before? How much did he pitch before he was acquired?”

    Would it matter if after the hypothetical injury you had nothing to show for the trade?

  115. Bronx Jeers July 3rd, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    Because Grandy is in a slump? Nothing compared to Jackson’s season last year or Kennedy’s struggles this year.

    ——————–

    Jackson’s having quite a season. And he’s younger and cheaper.

  116. Wave Your Hat July 3rd, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    “From the guy who introduced a personal element to the exchange.”

    Not me, you mimicked my previous post and I merely suggested you be more original.

  117. Rich in NJ July 3rd, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    “Would it matter if after the hypothetical injury you had nothing to show for the trade?”

    That’s why hypotheticals have limited utility.

  118. RadioKev July 3rd, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    LGY July 3rd, 2012 at 12:09 pm
    Whether you believe in Montero’s future or not is just a petty side issue many are using to distract themselves from the fact that Cashman screwed up big time this winter.

    Cash loaded his gun with his best bullet and missed the mark by a wide margin (like he has done repeatedly when it comes to pitching in his time as GM).

    The opportunity cost lost in the deal was massive.
    ———————-

    Perhaps if you consider that loading Banuelos and Betances in there too would have actually landed something, yeah. Cashman got the best value he could for Montero, I have no doubt about that. Look at some of the other packages out there this past off season.

    Could a case be made that we should have sent Montero, Banuelos, and Betances over for Gio Gonzalez? Yes. But then again, that takes a lot of factors into account to make that case (including Gonzalez finally pitching to his potential), and no one can predict the future like that.

  119. Wave Your Hat July 3rd, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    “But many here already assumed we (the Yankees) took on a greater risk by trading for a young pitcher as opposed to a young position player.. since young pitchers are more prone to injury (something parroted by Cash and the injury metrics).”

    Shame-

    Fair enough as well, but I hope you’ll admit that such a position – while it might be right – is far from “moot”.

  120. blake July 3rd, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    “I think this string or injuries has shown you that the Yankees still need pitching.”

    Pitching if easier to find …..yeams will trade pitchers ….they wont trade good position players

  121. Rich in NJ July 3rd, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    “Not me, you mimicked my previous post and I merely suggested you be more original.”

    I merely stated what I would have thought was an assertion that reasonable people could agree on: healthy players are worth more than those with career-threatening injuries.

  122. Jerkface July 3rd, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    Would it matter if after the hypothetical injury you had nothing to show for the trade?

    It matters if you’re talking about being an opponent of the hypothetical trade. Pineda is a guy with 1 year under his belt, who got the pitch that made him such a good prospect only a year before that season, and who already had arm trouble 2 years before THAT. And he is also a huge guy with a weird delivery. And he is really young. So why could they not be an opponent of the trade because of injury concerns? Its not like ‘Woops, he got hurt in a fluke thing!’ He didn’t step down a well.

    If hypothetical Nolan Ryan is like regular Nolan Ryan in the middle of his career, then I doubt anyone would object to trading for him. If its a hypothetical pineda analogue Nolan Ryan, then he would be a guy that had 1ish seasons under his belt, never threw hard until that season, and was shut down with elbow pain for an entire season 2 years before. Then you could be like ‘WTH why did we trade for Pineda Analogue Nolan Ryan??? We should have traded for Cole Hamels Analogue!!!”

  123. Wave Your Hat July 3rd, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    “Pitching if easier to find …..yeams will trade pitchers ….they wont trade good position players”

    I disagree blake, it’s hard to land a good player, be he a pitcher or a position player.

  124. blake July 3rd, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    Greinke is a great fit for the Braves….they need him and they have chips to deal.

  125. RadioKev July 3rd, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    blake July 3rd, 2012 at 12:16 pm
    “I think this string or injuries has shown you that the Yankees still need pitching.”

    Pitching if easier to find …..yeams will trade pitchers ….they wont trade good position players
    ———————–

    What do they trade pitchers for?

    I think you’ve mixed your thoughts on that one, Blake. Teams rarely deal good young pitchers or good young position players, and they’ll deal older players if money is a driving factor.

  126. Wave Your Hat July 3rd, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    JF-

    It was a young Nolan Ryan with a very limited history who was traded for Jim Fregosi.

  127. Jerkface July 3rd, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    I think you’ve mixed your thoughts on that one, Blake. Teams rarely deal good young pitchers or good young position players, and they’ll deal older players if money is a driving factor.

    Lots of established pitchers got traded for unestablished bats.

  128. Wave Your Hat July 3rd, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    “Lots of established pitchers got traded for unestablished bats.”

    And vice versa. Pitchers are traded 90% of the time, the other half are position players.

  129. Jerkface July 3rd, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    It was a young Nolan Ryan with a very limited history who was traded for Jim Fregosi.

    He had 500 innings in the majors.

  130. blake July 3rd, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    “I disagree blake, it’s hard to land a good player, be he a pitcher or a position player.”

    Lets look at the last calendar year…..Ubaldo, Gio, Latos, Pineda, Cahill were all traded……Garza, Greinke, and Hames all are available to be traded for most likely. What position players have been available that are on a similar level to those guys?

  131. Jerkface July 3rd, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    And vice versa. Pitchers are traded 90% of the time, the other half are position players.

    But not really, because people are not trading Gio Gonzalez/Mat Latos equivalent bats.

  132. Doc Iac July 3rd, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    Lots of established pitchers got traded for unestablished bats

    —-

    ya when they are on their last yr of contract of a team thats not competeing and has no chance to resign him, ur right

  133. blake July 3rd, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    Common theme with bad teams right now (except Seattle)…..trade your good pitchers …..extend your good position players.

  134. Wave Your Hat July 3rd, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    “Lets look at the last calendar year…”

    Way too short a period to be meaningful. If you want to do the work, take a look at the last ten or fifteen years. I’ll admit right up front I’m too lazy to do it.

  135. Jerkface July 3rd, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    ya when they are on their last yr of contract of a team thats not competeing and has no chance to resign him, ur right

    Gio, Latos, Ubaldo, Pineda, Marcum, Greinke, Cahill all had more than 1 year of team control.

  136. blake July 3rd, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    “ya when they are on their last yr of contract of a team thats not competeing and has no chance to resign him, ur right”

    Gio, Latos, Pineda, Cahill all had multiple years of cheap control…..so did Ubaldo last year. Teams dont want to build around pitchers………

  137. RadioKev July 3rd, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    blake July 3rd, 2012 at 12:22 pm
    “I disagree blake, it’s hard to land a good player, be he a pitcher or a position player.”

    Lets look at the last calendar year…..Ubaldo, Gio, Latos, Pineda, Cahill were all traded……Garza, Greinke, and Hames all are available to be traded for most likely. What position players have been available that are on a similar level to those guys?
    ———–

    Does MLB Trade Rumors have a transaction database?

  138. Wave Your Hat July 3rd, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    “But not really, because people are not trading Gio Gonzalez/Mat Latos equivalent bats.”

    How did the Yanks get Nick Swisher? I forget.

  139. Nick in SF July 3rd, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    blake, interesting and sobering numbers you posted before on the Yanks’s run totals to date over the last 10 seasons. But is there a way to put those numbers in better context?

    Specifically, I wonder what the overall trend is in runs scored league wide over the same time period. And I wonder what the Yanks’ run differential is over that same time period.

    Also — and this might be much harder to find out — I wonder what the comparative levels of competition would be to date. This is probably just subjective, but it seems like the Yanks have been facing quality, over .500 teams for big chunks of the season.

    I know your point was to show that the offense is not fine, and I think you did part of the job. But your numbers made me want to know more.

  140. blake July 3rd, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    “Does MLB Trade Rumors have a transaction database?”

    Not sure…..Im trying to think of the last premium position player who wasnt a rental or a salary dump that got traded…..

  141. Rich in NJ July 3rd, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    “How did the Yanks get Nick Swisher? I forget.”

    Coming off a bad year (93 OPS+), with a bad contract for that type of production, and having an ongoing dispute with Guillen.

  142. blake July 3rd, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    “How did the Yanks get Nick Swisher? I forget.”

    Swisher was awful when they traded for him…..they bought way low on him…..

  143. Wave Your Hat July 3rd, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    “Swisher was awful when they traded for him…..they bought way low on him…..”

    He had an off year, but overall he had been a good hitter. The Yanks made a good deal, but that’s a good thing.

  144. Doc Iac July 3rd, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    swisher trade was a steal

  145. blake July 3rd, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    Nick,

    Someone else can probably answer that better…..and the run scoring environment is down in general….but the Yanks have only scored the 3rd most runs in the AL east and this is the first year in over a decade where they havent scored 400 runs by this day. They had a run differential of 121+ last year. +60 this year

  146. Tackelberry July 3rd, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    DKnobler ?@DKnobler

    Interesting news from @JonHeymanCBS, who quotes former teammate as saying Greinke would like to pitch for Braves. http://cbsprt.co/MTncZK

    ______________________________________________

    Its Greg Maddux all over again

  147. Wave Your Hat July 3rd, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    “but the Yanks have only scored the 3rd most runs in the AL east and this is the first year in over a decade where they havent scored 400 runs by this day.”

    Here’s looking at you, ARod.

  148. Rich in NJ July 3rd, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    I think run differential is a probably good way to account for a changing run environment.

  149. blake July 3rd, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    The Swisher trade was a steal…..but he is an accurate equivalent of some of the pitchers that have been traded. You dont see Andrew McCutchens, Tulos, Brauns, etc traded……they get contract extensions and are built around.

  150. randy l. July 3rd, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    ” Can we make Nunez a catcher?”

    that’d be one way to get his throws to the first baseman.

    of course , he’d be aiming at the pitcher .

  151. blake July 3rd, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    “Here’s looking at you, ARod.”

    And Teixera…….

  152. Rich in NJ July 3rd, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    No one could have possibly foreseen that A-Rod and Tex would be underperfomring….

  153. austinmac July 3rd, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    Arguing Montero’s numbers at this time is pointless. No, he is not yet a great bat. Yes, he may become one. No one yet knows. It is really quite simple.

    I am guessing the Yankees keep only Cano from their four free agents, Martin, Granderson, Cano and Swisher. Their is no way to pay big money to more than that. They better hope Romine can catch and they can get an outfielder who can hit since losing Swisher and Granderson will be giving up 60+ home runs.

  154. RadioKev July 3rd, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    Rizzo, Reddick, Swisher counts if Ubaldo counts, Yonder Alonso, Jed Lowrie, Melky Cabrera, Hunter Pence (for Hamels, Greinke comparison)

  155. Rich in NJ July 3rd, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    “Arguing Montero’s numbers at this time is pointless”

    I agree. But disparaging him is offputting.

  156. Jerkface July 3rd, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    Rizzo and Reddick definitely do not count. Nor does Jed Lowrie or Yonder Alonso.

    They have no where near the track records of Mat Latos or Gio Gonzalez.

  157. RadioKev July 3rd, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    Some guy called Curtis Granderson

  158. RadioKev July 3rd, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    Jerkface July 3rd, 2012 at 12:41 pm
    Rizzo and Reddick definitely do not count. Nor does Jed Lowrie or Yonder Alonso.

    They have no where near the track records of Mat Latos or Gio Gonzalez.
    ————

    Especially Latos’ incredible track record, or Gio Gonzalez BB/IP record.

  159. Shame Spencer July 3rd, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    Um, we signed Swisher to be our backup 1B and DH.

  160. blake July 3rd, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    “Rizzo, Reddick, Swisher counts if Ubaldo counts, Yonder Alonso, Jed Lowrie, Melky Cabrera, Hunter Pence (for Hamels, Greinke comparison)”

    Rizzo- sent back to the minors
    Reddick- not considered a premium player when dealt.
    Alonso-unproven
    Lowrie-utility player when dealt
    Cabrera- not good when traded
    Pence- ill give you him

  161. Jerkface July 3rd, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    Especially Latos’ incredible track record, or Gio Gonzalez BB/IP record.

    Both pitched 400+ innings with very good ERA’s. Rizzo was in AAA, Reddick 375 ABs of .248 .290 .416 .706 production.

  162. Shame Spencer July 3rd, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    :arrow:

  163. RadioKev July 3rd, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    Shame Spencer July 3rd, 2012 at 12:43 pm
    Um, we signed Swisher to be our backup 1B and DH.
    ———–

    Who was Swisher backing up at 1B? We also traded for him. And he also only had one bad season.

  164. RadioKev July 3rd, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    Blake,

    Cabrera came off of a good year with the Royals when traded to the Giants.

  165. blake July 3rd, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    “Especially Latos’ incredible track record, or Gio Gonzalez BB/IP record.”

    Gio had a sub 4 era what 3 straight years in the AL?

  166. Rich in NJ July 3rd, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    Granderson had a 102 OPS+ in his final season in Detroit, and was .183 .245 .239 .484 v. LHP.

  167. blake July 3rd, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    “Cabrera came off of a good year with the Royals when traded to the Giants.”

    Only a year of control left too…..snd tjey clearly didnt think this Melky was real or rhey would have kept him…..or certainly trades him for somebody better than Sanchez

  168. RadioKev July 3rd, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    And ah yes, Lato’s very good 101 ERA+ in 2011. Great track record. He had one great season, and an average season before being traded.

    Jimenez flat out sucked when he was traded.

    Gonzalez was a big if when he was traded (much like say, a Jed Lowrie).

    I think you’re overvaluing the pitching names and under valuing the hitters.

  169. RadioKev July 3rd, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    blake July 3rd, 2012 at 12:45 pm
    “Especially Latos’ incredible track record, or Gio Gonzalez BB/IP record.”

    Gio had a sub 4 era what 3 straight years in the AL?
    ———–

    Pitching in Oakland and walking boat loads of guys! No one knew if he was about to fold into the next Oliver Perez at that rate. He clearly didn’t, but let’s not change history here.

  170. RadioKev July 3rd, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    Rich in NJ July 3rd, 2012 at 12:45 pm
    Granderson had a 102 OPS+ in his final season in Detroit, and was .183 .245 .239 .484 v. LHP.
    ———–

    And this also goes back to the names we were referring to: Jimenez, Latos, Pineda, Gonzalez. None of those guys were proven aces. I’d say Granderson was on the same risk/reward level as any of those guys.

  171. Shame Spencer July 3rd, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    You’re right. He was signed to be a poor defensive 1B and a DH.

    Not exactly a blockbuster though.

  172. Jerkface July 3rd, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    And ah yes, Lato’s very good 101 ERA+ in 2011. Great track record. He had one great season, and an average season before being traded.

    Jimenez flat out sucked when he was traded.

    Gonzalez was a big if when he was traded (much like say, a Jed Lowrie).

    I think you’re overvaluing the pitching names and under valuing the hitters.

    In the 2 seasons before he was traded he combined for 379 IP with a 3.21 ERA 7.6 H/9, 2.7 BB/9 8.9 SO/9 1.135 WHIP. He had a 3.4 ERA in his ‘mediocre year’. Gio is definitely not the equivalent of Jed Lowrie having pitched 400 IP with a 3.whatever ERA in his previous 2 years where as Jed Lowrie was either bad or injured in his 4 years in Boston.

    You are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay under valuing pitchers here.

  173. Jerkface July 3rd, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    Ubaldo is like Swisher or Granderson, with a better prior track record and having a rough season.

    But Latos and Gio are NOT the equivalent of Lowrie/Rizzo/Reddick/whomever.

  174. blake July 3rd, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    “Gonzalez was a big if when he was traded (much like say, a Jed Lowrie).”

    Gio got traded for a HUGE package of prospects…..Jed Lowrie got traded for Mark Melancon.

  175. RadioKev July 3rd, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    Jerkface,

    I’d argue Gonzalez’ trade value was based on his potential. The potential to have a year like he’s having now. (2.9 WAR/fangraphs)

    Jed Lowrie’s showing on his potential too. He’s got an .809 OPS at SS, which is pretty good. (2.4WAR/fangraphs)

    Obviously Gonzalez is better, but I don’t think that’s a huge leap.

  176. RadioKev July 3rd, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    blake July 3rd, 2012 at 12:53 pm
    “Gonzalez was a big if when he was traded (much like say, a Jed Lowrie).”

    Gio got traded for a HUGE package of prospects…..Jed Lowrie got traded for Mark Melancon.
    ————

    And the Red Sox organization is run by a bunch of clowns. Who’s fault is that?

  177. mick July 3rd, 2012 at 12:59 pm

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