Rodriguez joins a long (disabled) list of Yankees
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jul 26, 2012 
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By the time Alex Rodriguez went for an x-ray on Tuesday night, the Yankees should have expected the worst. Through some bad luck, some bad timing and some bad situations, the Yankees have seven key 40-man players on the disabled list, each expected to miss significant time. This list doesn’t including Dave Robertson, CC Sabathia and Eric Chavez – each of whom has been DL’d at one time or another this season — or top pitching prospects Manny Banuelos and Jose Campos.
Joba Chamberlain
Right ankle dislocation
Spring training
Games missed: 98
What was lost: Let’s say Chamberlain was going to miss the first two months regardless because of last year’s Tommy John surgery. That means he’s missed 48 games because of the dislocated ankle. The spring training trampoline accident has essentially pushed back Chamberlain’s return in a year when the Yankees have also spent time without Mariano Rivera and Dave Robertson.
Filling the hole: The Yankees knew they were going to have this particular hole on their roster, they just didn’t expect it to stay open this long. Losing Chamberlain has allowed guys like Clay Rapada, Cody Eppley and — for a while — Cory Wade to really step up in big spots. Right now it seems that Chad Qualls is the one filling the roster spot that will eventually be Chamberlain’s.
Austin Romine
Lower back strain
Spring training
Games missed: 98
What was lost: Depth. That’s what was really lost when Romine couldn’t quite get over his nagging back injury in spring training. The Yankees had already traded Montero and Romine was expected to finally become the top upper-level catching prospect in the system. Instead he’s spent the entire season on the disabled list, only recently getting into a few games.
Filling the hole: The Yankees were never really planning to carry Romine on their big league roster, but they were certainly counting on him being available in Triple-A, providing good, young depth behind the plate. Without Romine, the Yankees traded for Chris Stewart and optioned Francisco Cervelli as a way to re-create that catching depth. Hard to say whether the Yankees would have shown such unwavering patience with Russell Martin this season if Romine were healthy and hitting in the minors.
Michael Pineda
Right rotator cuff tendinitis (later diagnosed as a torn labrum)
Spring training
Games missed: 98
What was lost: This was the Yankees biggest offseason acquisition, a player that came at the cost of elite hitting prospect Jesus Montero. Such a high cost — despite Montero’s own struggles this season — has made Pineda’s shoulder injury especially hard to swallow. Pineda was the Yankees new, shiny toy and he has yet to be unwrapped. When he is, he might not be quite the same as expected.
Filling the hole: The Yankees had more starters than they knew what to do with in the first place, so Pineda’s injury simply opened the door for the other five starting pitchers who were competing for spots in spring training. David Phelps was given a roster spot because of Pineda’s shoulder, and perhaps Phil Hughes was given a little more patience because of it.
Brett Gardner
Right elbow strain
April 17
Games missed: 87
What was lost: Speed and defense, mostly. The Yankees have found two experience left field replacements in Andruw Jones and Raul Ibanez, and those provide significantly more power than Gardner, but neither can run or field nearly as well. Gardner brought a unique skill set to this roster, and until Monday, the Yankees hadn’t found a player quite like him.
Filling the hole: Until this week, the Yankees filled Gardner’s spot by putting Ibanez and Jones in the field more often than expected, but on Monday they traded for Ichiro Suzuki. At this stage of his career, Ichiro is no longer one of the elite leadoff hitters in baseball, but he could become perfect Gardner substitute. Gardner has a .355 career on-base percentage, and if Ichiro can reach base at that rate down the stretch, he’ll have a positive impact.
Mariano Rivera
Torn right ACL
May 3
Games missed: 73
What was lost: Mo was lost. Simple as that. The Yankees had the greatest closer in the game, a source of absolute stability in the ninth inning, and we went down in a heap along the warning track in Kansas City. It was a stunning blow — unthinkable even — and the Yankees had to suddenly face a world of uncertainty.
Filling the hole: There is only one Rivera, but the Yankees already had a pretty good substitute in Rafael Soriano. Pushed into the closer’s role after both Rivera and Dave Robertson landed on the disabled list, Soriano has done his best to re-live his standout 2010 season. With Robertson still in place as an elite setup man, the back of the Yankees bullpen hasn’t missed a beat. Rivera’s legacy and status is about more than one season, but in this small window, they’ve found a way to reasonable replace him.
Andy Pettitte
Fractured left ankle
June 27
Games missed: 24
What was lost: It was Pettitte just as everyone remembered him. Except with more strikeouts. Brought out of retirement in the middle of spring training, Pettitte returned to the Yankees in mid-May and remarkably returned to form. The Yankees had shown nothing but confidence, and Pettitte was justifying their faith with a 3.22 ERA and more than a strikeout per inning. Then a comebacker hit off his foot and Pettitte was done.
Filling the hole: Actually, the Yankees replaced Pettitte by trusting that another veteran pitcher could return to form. Freddy Garcia had been brutal in April, so bad that he was banished to mopup duty in the bullpen, but when Pettitte and CC Sabathia went on the DL at the same time, Garcia was forced back into rotation duty, and he’s been a solid fifth starter. Nothing flashy, but the Yankees weren’t expecting him to be flashy. He’s pitched to a 3.90 ERA since returning to the rotation.
Alex Rodriguez
Left fifth metacarpal fracture
July 24
Games missed: 1
What was lost: Rodriguez was having another down season. He was still getting on base, but he wasn’t hitting for his usual power, which made him a questionable choice in the middle of the order. Of course, Rodriguez was also getting hot this month and he’d just homered the night before Felix Hernandez hit him in the left hand with a misplaced changeup.
Filling the hole: For now all we know is what happened last night. Eric Chavez started at third base, Curtis Granderson moved into the middle of the order and Joe Girardi announced a platoon of Chavez and Jayson Nix. It may very well be that the Yankees stick with this plan, trusting Chavez and Nix to hold down the fort while they wait for Rodriguez to recover from his broken hand. Eduardo Nunez also looms as an in-house option, and the trade deadline is still a few days away.
Associated Press photos
Every save he gets moves Soriano one step closer to opting out of the contract and looking for a full time closer’s gig.
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Hopefully! And I hope they do the offer sheet for him so they can recoup the draft pick.
I woulsnt shop Robertson …..but Id trade almost anybody in the right deal.
Brewers Designate George Kottaras For Assignment
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [July 26 at 11:03am CST]
The Brewers announced that they designated catcher George Kottaras for assignment. In related moves, Milwaukee activated catcher Jonathan Lucroy from the 15-day disabled list, optioned infielder Jeff Bianchi to Triple-A and selected the contract of right-hander Jim Henderson.
Kottaras, 29, figures to draw trade interest in the coming days, when teams such as the Mets and Nationals could inquire about possible deals. He has a .209/.409/.360 batting line in 116 plate appearances this year, thanks to an impressive 25% walk rate. In parts of five MLB seasons, Kottaras has a .221/.326/.402 batting line.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com
Is he better than our catchers?
Is he better than our catchers?
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some obp and a bit of power, can he play D? I don’t see Cash doing jack, cuz I think he is satisfy with the stewie/martin combo.
Is he better than our catchers?
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btw, is that rhetorical question blake?
So Pete was griping about Beckett refusing to talk to the media last night and as an example of accountability he referred to….wait for it…..
ARod!
Cats & dogs…living together!
Pete Abraham ?@PeteAbe
A-Rod spoke to reporters last night after he broke his hand. Shows you the difference in the organizations and how they view acountability
Repost
I’ve always been partial to the hard sinker pitchers as opposed to the fly ball boys. Much more room for error, less HRs and much more efficient. I do like what Hughes is doing lately, though.
This article notes the changes.
What’s heartening is the “stronger stride”, as I felt that was a weakness, since way back in Texas.
“The differences aren’t huge, but among them are an exaggerated balance stance and a stronger stride. However, the biggest difference is a change in arm slots, from a high 3/4 in April, to a more normal 3/4 in July.”
http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/…..-ace-43129
Bo,
Tried your link but it said error 404..Could you please repost the link or tell me when the piece was published, so I can read it?
BTW
What is the status on Banuelos and Campos?
Chad,
By the way…best wishes to Mandy for her loss…
Northy,
Campos is out for the season….banuelos is in a throwing program right now as far as I know…In any case. he won´t be ready for 2013 bith pitching wise and innings wise
“both” it should say
Ok thanks… A lost season for those two… Maybe the AFL for Banuelos…
Bronx Jeers July 26th, 2012 at 12:55 pm
So Pete was griping about Beckett refusing to talk to the media last night and as an example of accountability he referred to….wait for it…..
ARod!
Cats & dogs…living together!
Pete Abraham ?@PeteAbe
A-Rod spoke to reporters last night after he broke his hand. Shows you the difference in the organizations and how they view acountability
—
That doesn’t even make sense. What does Arod have to be accountable for? He just got hit by a pitch, it wasn’t his fault (unless you are Randy and think it is his fault for not getting out of the way).
The only thing fat boy is right about is that f***face is a doosh.
Chad – anyone who gripes about your reporting need only look at the above. Thanks for always giving us really good and complete information.
Travel safe. You are a very good friend. That’s a precious commodity.
Pete must have been an axe murderer in a former life – or perhaps it was the hachet job he always did on Arod – but covering his last place prima donna losers is certainly karma for something!
Luis
Try this one – Third post
http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/author/michael-edder
Cashmoney July 26th, 2012 at 12:54 pm
Is he better than our catchers?
—-
some obp and a bit of power, can he play D? I don’t see Cash doing jack, cuz I think he is satisfy with the stewie/martin combo.
—————-
I seem to remember him being a horrible defensive C. Also, that’s not a position you really want to mess with during the season if you don’t have to. You get pitchers and catchers in a rhythm together and you don’t want to break that up and have a new guy come in having to learn how the pitchers like to work. Especially if the pitcher is going really well.
I think you guys are misinterpreting him. He was using Arod as an example of how an athlete SHOULD act. He was complimenting the Yankee org.
Thanks Bo,
Very interesting and good read…Two things that I would highlight of the piece, that i am sure you did noticed too, because we talked about it in ST…He has a longer and more agressive stride ( Finally!)and the arm slot, which is lower now…The latter I find it puzzling, because more horizontal movement in theory would not produce more rollers but it might end up in the middle of the plate ( pitching to the outside corner against RHB or to the inside against LHB), but it´s working so I have no complains
Another, is the obvious drop of the Cutter, which i think we can all agree that it was agood decision.
Again thank you, that place ( Yankeeanalysts) has some very good pieces
LOL, Pete, this guy lost all already.
sweep sux over the weekend
Mentioned it on the last thread – this offseason with Joba coming back healthy, Rivera returning for one more season, Montgomery on the rise and even Aardsma – would you trade David Robertson?
I would.
He’s not going to be the guy who gets you Justin Upton, but a Yankee Met deal of Robertson for Nieuwenhuis would work for me – Yankees wind up with a good, young OF that they can play in LF (and deal GGBG) or in RF if Swisher doesn’t return. Kirk’s got a good swing for Yankee Stadium.
Bronx Jeers July 26th, 2012 at 1:43 pm
I think you guys are misinterpreting him. He was using Arod as an example of how an athlete SHOULD act. He was complimenting the Yankee org.
——————–
Agreed – he was ripping Beckett for not talking to the press after he lost a game whereas Alex had a broken hand and was still there taking questions because he knew that reporters would have questions to ask.
“btw, is that rhetorical question blake?”
nah I was just asking as a discussion point…..I don’t know a ton about him…..I also don’t really think the Yankees see the catching position as a problem either unfortunately.
Bronx Jeers July 26th, 2012 at 1:43 pm
I think you guys are misinterpreting him. He was using Arod as an example of how an athlete SHOULD act. He was complimenting the Yankee org.
—
I know he was complimenting the Yankee org, that’s not my point. It was a bad comparison, because getting hit by a pitch (Arod) is totally different than sucking (Beckett).
I’d trade Robertson for the right deal….but for me it would have to be player that’s a real upgrade over what they already have
The Yankees aren’t going to change the starting catcher this late in the season, especially when Girardi already said that it doesn’t matter what he hits.
Nunez should be learning to play 3rd, not SS.
Jeter will be at SS at least two more seasons, but Alex could very easily be a full time DH next year, meaning 3B would be open. Nunez has fielding and throwing issues at both ss and 3b. Put him at 3b, replace him with Chavez for D late in games and see what happens. Let him work out at 3b in the offseason instead of SS….
Saves us from another contract we will need to overpay for to get a 3B when Alex moves to DH.
Like if I could trade Robertson for Mark Trumbo now I would probably do that
jacksquat July 26th, 2012 at 1:51 pm
I know he was complimenting the Yankee org, that’s not my point. It was a bad comparison, because getting hit by a pitch (Arod) is totally different than sucking (Beckett).
————————-
Nah, it’s a good comp…Beckett stomped off rather than answering questions and being accountable. Alex, who had every reason to not be there to answer questions and was likely in some pretty significant physical pain, did stand there and patiently answered questions.
Chip,
I would rather trade Granderson for prospects or a cost controlled OF. Sign melky, let Swisher walk. You get younger, lower payroll at the same time. Granted we lose a lot of pop. But we are going to lose it anyway.
I don´t think Granderson is going to age well
“Saves us from another contract we will need to overpay for to get a 3B when Alex moves to DH.”
Nunez hits enough to be a league average SS if he could defend well enough to play there……he doesn’t really hit well enough to be a league average 3B though……I’d rather get a real third baseman when Alex can’t play there anymore……
Nunez hits enough to be a league average SS if he could defend well enough to play there……he doesn’t really hit well enough to be a league average 3B though……I’d rather get a real third baseman when Alex can’t play there anymore……
____________
Then there is no point to holding onto Nunez then. He will not get to play SS unless Jeter goes down….
“I don´t think Granderson is going to age well”
his grooved swing plane worries me….I think he could be more but at this point in his career he can’t really change his entire approach. As I’ve said…..I would offer him a team friendly extension this winter to play LF beyond 2013 and if he declined I would shop him and see if I could get a return that made sense……
blake July 26th, 2012 at 1:53 pm
Like if I could trade Robertson for Mark Trumbo now I would probably do that
————–
I don’t know that you’re getting Trumbo for a middle reliever – but yeah I would do that deal too.
I like Kirk, I think he would be a solid LF for the Yankees for several years.
“Then there is no point to holding onto Nunez then. He will not get to play SS unless Jeter goes down….”
well you’d trade him if you could get more than he’s worth as depth…..but I’m not sure how much value he has right now…..I wouldn’t really hesitate to put him in a larger deal as a piece.
“I don’t know that you’re getting Trumbo for a middle reliever – but yeah I would do that deal too.”
of course not now…..I was referring to the Robertson for Trumbo rumors from last winter….
I don’t think Melky is going to fit in the budget unless the budget is going to be different than they continue to indicate.
Robertson isn’t a middle reliever though…..he’s a future closer or dominant set up guy…..
A better example would have been the day that ARod had the opportunity to win the game with a ninth-inning hit (the day he said something about “what a great opportunity to have”) and he stayed and answered questions after he “let the team down” by not getting the hit in that opportunity.
Does anyone here realize that McCutchen is batting .370 or that Jason Kubel is leading the NL in RBI? There’s two guys you don’t here about enough
Thank goodness that brutal road trip is over. One Nix clutch hit from a 1-6 trip.
We’ve survived the losses to Mo, Pineda, and Gardner. Might not be so easy dealing with the loss of Alex.
Heading east and getting Joba back will help this club a lot.
Eppley and co are okay, but Joba will lengthen the pen considerably.
Greinke will be traded before the July 31st deadline, GM Doug Melvin told Bob Nightengale of USA Today. Melvin said Greinke could handle pitching in a large market. “There are so many good things about him, it’s going to be difficult when we trade him,” Melvin said. GMs and executives agree Greinke is the prize pitcher available in trades, Nightengale reports.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com
“Does anyone here realize that McCutchen is batting .370 or that Jason Kubel is leading the NL in RBI? There’s two guys you don’t here about enough”
If I could pick any player to be a Yankee….McCutchen would be a consideration for me……he’s really good…..has a decent contract….and is a guy that just gets it.
Even if we didn’t have looming budget constraints, I’m not sure Melky would be signed back. I can’t explain it, just a gut feeling.
“Even if we didn’t have looming budget constraints, I’m not sure Melky would be signed back. I can’t explain it, just a gut feeling.”
I think he might stay in SF…….
It’s remarkable to hear the differences between the Yankees and Red Sox clubhouses. I remember reading some comments about how Beckett and Lester weren’t necessarily poisoning the clubhouse because as starting pitchers, they were almost a separate entity from the rest of the team and it was natural for them to do their own thing.
Then I though about the Yankees and how our starting pitchers are so much a part of the clubhouse, and in some ways the heart of the team (Sabathia, Pettitte, even Nova).
Well I think the Yanks have more payroll flexibility than others do because I’m convinced that Mariano will not pitch in 2013.
Take away Rivera, Feliciano and Garcia and you’ve already gone from $ 209 M to $ 187 M. Take away Martin and Kuroda and you’re down to $ 170. There IS money to retain Swisher or acquire Melky or BJ Upton and possibly add two of the three.
Of course that depends a good deal on Pineda and/or Phelps becoming an inexpensive starter.
If Mariano DOES pitch, Soriano will opt out w/ max value as opposed to returning to the 8th inning role and lowering his value.
The Yankees and Cashman have done a great job of targeting clubhouse guys the last few years….they made a decision when they went after Sabathia to change the culture and it’s worked…..guys want to play for the Yankees….especially veterans.
Beckett and Lackey might be among the worst teammates in the game.
CC and Andy among the best.
Espn link that night was A-Rod breaks hand after hit by pitch.
Everything is A-rod’s fault. Lol!
Bronx
When I saw the tweets I laughed. Pete was careful to credit the Yankees rather than give Alex props.
86w,
Why do you keep saying this? Rivera has VOWED that he is pitching next year. He isn’t gonna go out like this. He has said multiple times that you can book him for next year. He didnt saythey maybe, or possilby, he saida 100%. Why do you think he only pitches next year if he comes back this year? That honestly doesn’t make any sense. If anything, coming back this year would make him less likely to pitch next year. He isn’t gonna go out on terms like this.
“Well I think the Yanks have more payroll flexibility than others do because I’m convinced that Mariano will not pitch in 2013.”
I think he will definitely pitch in 2013….but even if he doesn’t 2013 isn’t the problem….the new rules don’t start until 2014 and that’s where the issue lies…..they don’t want to tie up long term money because they want to get their payroll below 189 million by 2014.
That reminds me…. I’m kinda ticked the Yanks have been hit by pitches 16 times more than they’ve hit opposing hitters (39-to-23).
Only Tampa Bay (45) batters have been hit by more pitches.
Boston (45) has hit the most (shocking, I know!). The Yanks have hit the fewest.
Blake, the only way Mo doesn’t come back is if his knee can’t handle it. Otherwise, he has said he is back.
Did you see the quotes from his last interview? He clearly indicated he was now undecided about 2013. Right after he got hurt he vowed to be back, but not specifically for 2013.
I believe his emotional response was simply that and a belief that he could get back in time for September/October of this season.
I may turn out to be wrong, but I don’t think so.
A better example would have been the day that ARod had the opportunity to win the game with a ninth-inning hit (the day he said something about “what a great opportunity to have”) and he stayed and answered questions after he “let the team down” by not getting the hit in that opportunity.
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In comparison to Beckett, definitely.
There were more tweets on the subject and there was a decent amount of back and forth with other “tweeters”. The point according to Pete was that players should talk to the media because A.- that’s how fans get info and B. – it makes it easier on one’s teammates. So what I took out of it was that even though Alex had a broken hand and was probably in pain and or bummed/angry/frustrated etc., he stuck around to answer questions. In other words he had a real excuse to leave but didn’t.
JonHeymanCBS more execs thinking #phillies wont sell big. NL exec: “if they get w/i 5 games by sept, i bet they make the playoffs.”
JonHeymanCBS #marlins looking for “teixeira-like” package for johnson, wont trade reyes, buehrle.
With Hamels and Cain off the market and Greinke soon to follow possibly, the Yankees will have plenty of flexibility to buy a bat (Melky) with that money.
The Pineda trade could look really prescient if he can be healthy in 2013. Teams are locking up frontline pitchers and you have to trade for them. An argument could be made in favor of Montero for Gio instead but the bottom line is the yankees read the market right for starting pitchers.
What OF makes more sense as a long-term investment than Melky?
unless one of the Almontes is really ready to play at this level by the end of next year – the Yankees will keep Curtis Granderson. He is the second best offensive player on this team.
The Yankees currently have the following committed to 2014 in AAV.
Arod: 27.5 million
Sabathia: 23
Tex: 23 million
If they sign Cano then that’s another 23 or so million….Granderson would be at least 15, Melky would be at least 15….Jeter will be 12 I think…..so you’re looking at almost 140 million dollars right there in 7 players if they kept Cano and Granderson and also signed Melky……
could they fill out the rest of the roster with 50 million dollars? Sure….but if wouldn’t be easy and it’s hard to say how much quality they’d have for the other spots.
Bret -
I don’t think Hamels coming off the market has any impact on the Yankees. They weren’t going to dip into that pool anyway.
Jeter is 9 if he opts out, 14 if he opts in.
Jeter is 9 if he opts out, 14 if he opts in.
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I’ve never heard of a contract like that but then again it is Derek Jeter so…
Bronx Jeers -
From that point of view, I understand the comparison now.
“Jeter is 9 if he opts out, 14 if he opts in.”
that’s the AAV right? He’s going to play in 2014 so we might as well count him
Jeter’s option is for 8 million in 2014….so if he exercises it then it would make his deal 4/59 right? Which would be an AAV of 9.93??
I’ve never heard of a contract like that but then again it is Derek Jeter so…
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It is because of how AAV is calculated. The Yankees don’t actually pay 9 in 2014 if he opts out, they just lose 9 million of cap space for the luxury tax. The reason is that a player option (which Jeter has) is counted as a guaranteed year, and if a player’s contract is somehow voided/not opted in for a player option the team is debited or credited the difference in AAV. Basically the 8 million dollar option brings the AAV down of Jeter’s contract by 3 million per year. So if he opts out they get dinged for the missed CAP damage (3×3 = 9 ).
If he opts in they will simply get hit by the AAV that they have been getting hit by (14) + any of the bonus millions he earns from whatever awards he wins.
Which would be an AAV of 9.93??
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Bad math, Blake. His contract is 3/51, but counted as 4/59 which is 14.75.
Also I forgot he has a buy out, so thats an extra 3 million counted in 2014 if he opts out.
In looking at the Hamels contract – and the Cain one before that – anyone who still doesn’t understand why the Yankees did the right thing trading for a guy like Pineda needs to have their head examined.
Chip,
Agreed. The only argument that holds any sway is that the Yankees targeted the wrong guy but we still don’t know that yet. They were right to use Montero as a trade chip for a starter. There’s no denying that. It will be even more crystal clear if Greinke signs an extension with the Brewers or a team who trades for him.
“Bad math, Blake. His contract is 3/51, but counted as 4/59 which is 14.75.”
Ok gotcha…..see my process was right but my division not so much.
Jeter is mostly likely going to play in 2014 so might as well count 15 million for him that year…
And out of all the free agent OF out there, Melky makes the most sense. He makes more sense than any trade option as well because Melky + prospects is worth far more than any OF in baseball. Melky is one of the best right now. Melky + Nova alone is worth more than Justin Upton. When you start adding in guys like Mason Williams the cost of Upton gets absurd compared to Melky who is available for money alone.
“In looking at the Hamels contract – and the Cain one before that – anyone who still doesn’t understand why the Yankees did the right thing trading for a guy like Pineda needs to have their head examined.”
considering Hamels and Cain are good and healthy and Pineda is broken I don’t know…..
Use of the term “broken” is not fully honest IMHO.
Bret The Hitman July 26th, 2012 at 2:48 pm
And out of all the free agent OF out there, Melky makes the most sense. He makes more sense than any trade option as well because Melky + prospects is worth far more than any OF in baseball. Melky is one of the best right now. Melky + Nova alone is worth more than Justin Upton. When you start adding in guys like Mason Williams the cost of Upton gets absurd compared to Melky who is available for money alone.
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Yankees are not signing Melky. Because Melky is having such a great season some team is going to grossly overpay him (much like the Nats and Red Sox did for Werth and Crawford)
Yankees would probably rather keep Ichiro or sign Hunter on short term contracts to buy time for Zoilo Almonte, Abe Almonte, Slade Heathcott, Mason Williams, Tyler Austin to develop.
blake July 26th, 2012 at 2:49 pm
“In looking at the Hamels contract – and the Cain one before that – anyone who still doesn’t understand why the Yankees did the right thing trading for a guy like Pineda needs to have their head examined.”
considering Hamels and Cain are good and healthy and Pineda is broken I don’t know…..
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Yankees were never EVER going to get Cain or Hamels – even if they got to free agency the Yankees weren’t going to shell out that kind of money. Pineda is young, will be back next year and is under team control at a reasonable price for a while.
I’m pretty certain that’s not true. For luxury tax purposes Jeter signed a 3 years, $ 51 M deal. He’s paid $ 48 M the first three years and guaranteed $ 3 M in 2014.
The Yanks are paying tax based on the guaranteed AAv which is $ 17 M.
If he opts it, it’s a one year $ 8 M deal that only counts $ 5 M on the 2014 payroll because they’ve already been taxed for the $ 3 M opt out since it is guaranteed money.
AAV calculations are based on guaranteed years and dollars.
this blog needs a capologist
Bronx Jeers July 26th, 2012 at 12:55 pm
So Pete was griping about Beckett refusing to talk to the media last night and as an example of accountability he referred to….wait for it…..
ARod!
Cats & dogs…living together!
Pete Abraham ?@PeteAbe
A-Rod spoke to reporters last night after he broke his hand. Shows you the difference in the organizations and how they view acountability
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I know the former blogmaster is a notorious A-Rod hater and cheap shot artist but I really don’t see the “accountability” connection here. Comparing the two incidents is apples and hand grenades.
It’s not as if A-Rod did something stupid and was a stand up guy for answering questions about it after the game. He was the victim of a freak injury and Beckett was his usual jackass self.
That said, I think Pete was actually crediting the Yankee organization and clubhouse culture more than praising A-Rod.
I disagree, Chip. The money is there for the Yankees to make Melky a competitive offer and I believe Melky would take less to return to the Yankees. He spent nearly one decade with the Yankees franchise and he has roots in NYC.
Where else do you spend that money? What free agents do you target in Melky’s place? You can spend that money and make the team much better. No reason to sit on that money.
ARod, CC, Tex, Granderson, Cano, Melky, Jeter = 140 for 7 players
Bullpen = Robertson, Montgomery, Joba, Logan, and other min. salary guys = probably 7 mil or so when you factor in Robertson/Joba/Logan’s arb numbers.
So 14 players totaling $147 million.
Nova, Pineda, Phelps, Banuelos filling out the rest of the roster. Only Nova would be arb eligible, I think, so add 3-4 mil total for everyone. Now, 18 players at $151 mil
They’ve covered all 12 pitching spots, starting SS, 3B, 2B, 1B, and 2 OFs now. So they need 4 bench players, catcher, DH, and other OF, 7 players at $38 mil or so.
Let’s assume they go with Romine/Stewart at C, minimum salary. DH is a rotating guy or minimum salary guy like Ibanez. Let’s say they spend $5 mil or so to fill out a 4-man bench. That is 24 players at $156. Their other starting OF will probably be a stop-gap guy or Gardner. So that adds up to $160 mil.
So basically, they would still have $33 mil to play with. They could re-sign Hughes, get another top starter, get a legit 3B and move ARod to DH, upgrade at catcher, etc.
*30 mil, not 33
They really lucked out getting Pineda, now that Hamels/Cain are off the market, they would not have had anywhere to go to get pitching this winter. So the budget saved them, rather than keep Montero and wait to sign a stud pitcher, they acquired the stud pitcher via FA. Pineda next year is basically like signing a stud FA pitcher. Now they can use that money to upgrade the OF.
will be back next year
——————————
Hopefully
I’m pretty certain that’s not true. For luxury tax purposes Jeter signed a 3 years, $ 51 M deal. He’s paid $ 48 M the first three years and guaranteed $ 3 M in 2014.
The Yanks are paying tax based on the guaranteed AAv which is $ 17 M.
If he opts it, it’s a one year $ 8 M deal that only counts $ 5 M on the 2014 payroll because they’ve already been taxed for the $ 3 M opt out since it is guaranteed money.
AAV calculations are based on guaranteed years and dollars.
this blog needs a capologist
–
I am the capologist. Player options are included in the AAV calc of a contract, so Jeter is counted as 15+16+17+8 / 4 = 56. If he opts out the team eats the difference between what was paid in years 1-3 and what they would have paid had the player option not existed including any buyouts. Which is 3/51 = 17.
So they eat a penalty of (17-14) * 3 = 9.
Bret The Hitman July 26th, 2012 at 2:55 pm
I disagree, Chip. The money is there for the Yankees to make Melky a competitive offer and I believe Melky would take less to return to the Yankees. He spent nearly one decade with the Yankees franchise and he has roots in NYC.
Where else do you spend that money? What free agents do you target in Melky’s place? You can spend that money and make the team much better. No reason to sit on that money.
———————-
What’s the offer?
I’m pretty sure that while we fans want Melky to be nostalgic for his time in the Bronx you have to look at it from his point of view. To him the Yankees didn’t want him anymore – they chose Brett Gardner over him, thought he was a bad influence on Robbie Cano and shipped him out of town. I don’t know if that is going to give him the warm and fuzzies. And the bottom line is, this is a business. Guys don’t give “hometown discounts” that much anymore (look at Cole Hamels holding the hammer on the Phillies)
I could see a team like San Fran or even Boston or Baltimore offering Melky a 6 year deal at $15 per – Yankees aren’t going there for him.
Pineda next year is basically like signing a stud FA pitcher.
——————————–
Not if the stud pitcher was dead for the entire season
Yank1 July 26th, 2012 at 3:00 pm
They really lucked out getting Pineda, now that Hamels/Cain are off the market, they would not have had anywhere to go to get pitching this winter. So the budget saved them, rather than keep Montero and wait to sign a stud pitcher, they acquired the stud pitcher via FA. Pineda next year is basically like signing a stud FA pitcher. Now they can use that money to upgrade the OF.
*******
Post of the year. Why this is not more evident to more posters here is puzzling. I guess the whining over Montero was the popular thing to do (and kind of diluted the quality of the blog for a long time).
Bronx Jeers July 26th, 2012 at 2:28 pm
In comparison to Beckett, definitely.
There were more tweets on the subject and there was a decent amount of back and forth with other “tweeters”. The point according to Pete was that players should talk to the media because A.- that’s how fans get info and B. – it makes it easier on one’s teammates. So what I took out of it was that even though Alex had a broken hand and was probably in pain and or bummed/angry/frustrated etc., he stuck around to answer questions. In other words he had a real excuse to leave but didn’t.
———–
That’s a fair argument, although I would still find it hard to believe Pete actually giving an ounce of credit to A-Rod for anything.
Red Sock or not, Beckett has always given me the impression that he really is an ass as well as an underachiever (given his raw talent) and selfish ballplayer.
Chip,
My questions to you were:
Where else do you spend the money required to make a competitive offer to Melky?
What free agents do you target in Melky’s place?
Saying that having Pineda coming off a shoulder injury = a FA Stud pitcher is reaaaaaaaaally presumptive about how good Pineda will be. He has pitched 1 season in the majors.
Jerkface —–
I stand (or actually sit) corrected.
Shoulda known the difference between player options and team options.
Seems pretty stupid to include a player option in a contract…. I’m sure they would not have done it had they known what the new CBS would mean.
new CBA
I know I’ve already said it but reading over some of the contracts handed out recently.. If Hamels got $24 million per, Cano is going to get something similar. He puts up another year like this and he could end up being one of the top 3 players in the league AAV wise.
Do they list the highest paid players by AAV or by their annual earnings?
Regardless, with Cain, Hamels and possibly Greinke off the market, I’m glad the Yankees are not in a position where they will have to trade for a starter in the offseason. Since Pineda is cost-controlled, they can use that money for an OF and don’t have to trade for one – another smart move.
Seems pretty stupid to include a player option in a contract…. I’m sure they would not have done it had they known what the new CBS would mean.
–
The only time a player option is not guaranteed is if the buyout is > 50% of the value of the player option. Then it counts the buy out as a signing bonus pro rated over the length of the deal.
Club options don’t count as guaranteed ever.
“Yankees were never EVER going to get Cain or Hamels – even if they got to free agency the Yankees weren’t going to shell out that kind of money. Pineda is young, will be back next year and is under team control at a reasonable price for a while.”
I understood the thought process….but I still don’t really like the Yankees trading away their #1 prospect just because they didn’t want to pay for something they needed……which is kinda what they did….maybe they were afraid that Hamels and Cain would sign extensions and that was part of it….and that’s fine…but there will still be pitching available….and Pineda isn’t a sure thing…..never was….
.it’s not like they traded for King Felix or even Gio Gonzalez who had track records of success..
And yes my math was super poorly written above, writing stream of conscious with numbers makes weird stuff happen. 56/4 = 14. 51/3 = 17. SO the difference is 17-14 = 3 in missed taxes for each year.
Hello All-Been several days since my last post.
During that time the Yankees were swept in Oakland, traded for Ichiro and saw ARod go down
with a broken hand.
Unbelievable week indeed.
“They really lucked out getting Pineda, now that Hamels/Cain are off the market, they would not have had anywhere to go to get pitching this winter.”
Greinke, Dempster, Liriano, Kuroda again….there is pitching out there. Problem is that they traded for a pitcher that wasn’t established and wasn’t through the time period that a lot of young pitchers get hurt…..
Do they list the highest paid players by AAV or by their annual earnings?
–
Isn’t this the same thing?
http://www.baseballprospectus......age_id=179
Has highest paid players by contract, AAV, etc
Remember when Phil Hughes won 18 games and then fell off a cliff for a year? Stud pitching is hard to come by. I want Pineda to be a not-so-mini-CC but it’s gonna be at least a couple seasons before we know what we’ve got.
Yeah, the Yanks really made out like bandits in the Montero/Pineda trade.
Never mind that Pineda has still not thrown a effing pitch for this team and is trying to return from arguably the worst injury that a pitcher could have short of his throwing arm being severed from his body.
Hard to believe some people can completely dismiss the idea that the Yanks’ big return in this deal has yet to get his pinstripes dirty.
If they had traded Montero for Felix Hernandez or Gio Gonzalez then you could probably say they lucked out…..because both of those guys have track records…..they traded him for a prospect more or less that promptly got hurt and may never be the same again……hopefully he will be awesome and it’ll all come up roses…..but we don’t know yet.
.it’s not like they traded for King Felix or even Gio Gonzalez who had track records of success..
******
I’ll say this again. The Yankees read the market right for starting pitchers so trading for one well in advance of this offseason was smart. The only argument is whether they picked the wrong guy in Pineda (whose career is not over BTW).
As for Felix, Cashman said he tried and Jack Z deflected to Pineda.
As for Gio, as far as we know from leaked rumors, Beane wanted Montero PLUS Mason Williams plus more. So even though we don’t know if that’s true for certain, we certaily don’t know if Beane’s demands were too high for the Yankees either.
Cano is going to get Albert Pujols money. Sweet jebus…
“Hard to believe some people can completely dismiss the idea that the Yanks’ big return in this deal has yet to get his pinstripes dirty.”
and that the 2nd piece that everyone talked about has barely pitched either due to elbow issues…..bad luck sure….but the Yanks haven’t gotten anything out of the trade yet..
Pineda needs to come back throwing 95, not 92.
“I’ll say this again. The Yankees read the market right for starting pitchers so trading for one well in advance of this offseason was smart”
I think you could say they read the market right as in they may have predicted that Cain and Hamels wouldn’t make it to free agency…..but personally I believe that made the trade because they didn’t want to pay either of those guys even if they did……Cash gambled….so far it hasn’t paid off….hopefully it does. ….
Regarding the trade for Ichiro, I never saw that coming. Not sure who else was in the same boat as me here.
I was convinced the Yankees were going to trade for the Giants RF, Nate Schieholtz.
He seemed like the perfect fit, especially since his playing time with SF was dramatically reduced and he went public about wanting to be traded.
Makes me wonder if Cashman kicked those tires, but realized the asking price was far too high.
Stark On Greinke, Headley, Indians, Wells
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [July 26 at 2:08pm CST]
The market for Zack Greinke appears to consist of the Rangers, Angels, White Sox and Braves, ESPN.com’s Jayson Stark reports. Rival teams say the Red Sox, Blue Jays and Dodgers aren’t involved on Greinke, and the Indians and Orioles have limited interest in pitchers headed for free agency, Stark writes. Here are more notes from Stark:
The Yankees are exploring their third base options with Alex Rodriguez out, Stark reports. Marco Scutaro could be an option for New York.
There’s an expectation that Chase Headley will be traded, but the Padres continue saying they’re happy to keep him, Stark writes. One team says the Padres are looking for a Mat Latos-like return if they trade the third baseman.
The Phillies are looking for a proven, young setup reliever and a young outfielder or third baseman for Victorino, Stark reports. They’ve asked about relievers Brad Lincoln, Wade Davis and Logan Ondrusek in trade talks.
It’s already been a busy month for the Astros, but they’re still willing to consider trades for anyone but Jose Altuve.
The Indians and Cardinals have talked to the Rays about James Shields, Stark reports.
The Angels are telling teams they’d rather trade Vernon Wells than keep him when he returns from the disabled list. They’re looking for a trade partner and saying they don’t want to eat all of his salary, Stark reports. It’ll be challenging to find a taker for Wells’ salary; he earns $21MM per season through 2014.
The Indians aren’t likely to deal Chris Perez or Shin-Soo Choo, but they’ll listen on either player.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com
blah on Scutero……Choo would fit the Yankees needs like a glove short term…..
The returns on the trade are not there, but the thought process makes more sense than many posters ever gave credit. They were too busy clogging the blog with complaints about Montero.
By the time the Yankees can count on Pineda for anything he’s already going to be arbitration eligible.
And if he’s actually able to make a strong return his arb years are going to be expensive. Not exactly the cap saving move Cashman was hoping for.
I’ll say this again. The Yankees read the market right for starting pitchers so trading for one well in advance of this offseason was smart. The only argument is whether they picked the wrong guy in Pineda (whose career is not over BTW).
Your sort of minimizing the debate. The fact that the ‘only argument’ is whether they picked the wrong kind is still kind of a big deal. I want Pineda to succeed and be a true #1/2 type guy. But first he needs to start a rehab assignment. Even guys that have great track records (Lincecum) can fall off.
“The returns on the trade are not there, but the thought process makes more sense than many posters ever gave credit. They were too busy clogging the blog with complaints about Montero.”
I never said the thought process didn’t make sense….just that I didn’t agree with it.
and good luck Angels in finding a taker for Vernon Wells without eating pretty much all of his contract.
Blake,
Posters are conflating the thought process (it was always sound) with the target (Pineda).
Cashman shopped Montero and the best young cost-controlled offer was from Seattle because they had a combination of a glut of young pitchers and an abyss on offense. They were a perfect match as far as targets go.
Jon Heyman ?@JonHeymanCBS
annoyed #twins person on suggestion they should trade willingham: “What are we, someone’s farm club?” #nodeal!
pretty much…..nah keep on win what you have….it’s working out great Twinkies
Bret The Hitman July 26th, 2012 at 3:06 pm
Chip,
My questions to you were:
Where else do you spend the money required to make a competitive offer to Melky?
What free agents do you target in Melky’s place?
—————–
Brett –
1) I don’t think they’ll spend it, at least not initially – I think a large portion of it will go towards new contracts for Hughes, Cano and Granderson.
2) If they wanted to sign an OF to a long term contract they would bring back Nick Swisher. Assuming Swisher is allowed to walk – try to keep Ichiro if he shows he has anything in the tank or look into Hunter on short term deals. Or see where things stand with Zoilo and Abe Almonte at the end of the year.
Kottaras is pretty good vs RHP. They should pick him up and try a platoon at C.
“Posters are conflating the thought process (it was always sound) with the target (Pineda).”
I always understood why they did it…..I just never really agreed with the decision…..I think they need offense going forward and thought it was making a new hole to try and repair an old one..
Even if they sign Melky, in 2014, their lineup would be Jeter (39), Granderson (33), Cano (31), ARod (38), Tex (34), Melky (29), DH (probably 35+), Gardner (31), and a catcher who sucks.
Chip,
1) I agree on Granderson. I think he’s going to get a huge contract from the Yankees. I’m not sold on Hughes. Cano isn’t even a question for me.
2) Disagree on Swisher. I don’t think this money is earmarked for a long-term contract to Nick Swisher.
Are you saying the Yankees would rather lock up Swisher than present a competitive offer to Melky?
If they could get Melky on a reasonable deal and trade Granderson for something useful this winter then that would be great and something to consider…..I’m just not sold that they can or will do either of those things.
I wish they could get Choo.
Bret The Hitman July 26th, 2012 at 3:18 pm
The returns on the trade are not there, but the thought process makes more sense than many posters ever gave credit. They were too busy clogging the blog with complaints about Montero.
————
Young position players with plus bats are even more scarce than young arms. That’s the reality you have never grasped since Day 1.
You also like using revisionist history on the Gio Gonzalez front considering that if you had your way, you would have traded Montero before the trade deadline one season ago for Ubaldo Jimenez.
They didn’t have 5 Monteros. They only had one so you already played that card before Gonzalez was traded to the Nats.
LGY July 26th, 2012 at 3:23 pm
Kottaras is pretty good vs RHP. They should pick him up and try a platoon at C.
—————-
Doubt they’ll go that route – Bringing in Kottaras means dumping Stewart. Stewart has been CC’s catcher all year. Girardi and Cashman aren’t going to mess with the big man’s rhythm.
Before you start celebrating on the return of Pineda, here’s a report done last year on Labral tears. We only know the surgery was deemed a success. Have no idea if any new techniques were used or even platelet rich plasma
“Whereas the long celebrated Tommy John surgery has an 85% success rate of getting a pitcher back to a high level, the SLAP tear operation once only had a 3% chance of putting a pitcher back on the mound with the quality of performance he had prior to the injury (Carroll, 2004). For the other 97% of pitchers who tore their labrum, it was essentially a death sentence (or at least a major hindrance) to their career. Even today, the SLAP repair procedure only has a 33-66% success rate in putting athletes back on the field.”
http://honors.usf.edu/document.....041248.pdf
The idea that CC needs a specific catcher to succeed is bollocks.
But Montero is not a position player, something the folks complaining about him nonstop have yet to grasp.
Bret The Hitman July 26th, 2012 at 3:24 pm
Are you saying the Yankees would rather lock up Swisher than present a competitive offer to Melky?
————
I’m saying they won’t do either.
But Montero is not a position player
–
Evidence suggests otherwise.
Signing Granderson and his long swinging and 200 strikeouts from ages 33-37/38, is a disaster waiting to happen. I have no idea why he seems to be a priority to re-sign. Those are the types of contract we should be trying to get away from, not purposely reengage ourselves in.
Trader,
Pineda’s career is not over. Nobody is celebrating his return. That’s not a fully honest comment. I’m just saying that the yankees read the market right and were right to trade Montero for a starter.
Did they pick the wrong starter?
I wouldn’t jump to conclusions.
About the only thing I see Kottaras has done well this year is get a base on balls about 1/3rd of his ab’s.
Procrastination will get you nowhere.
Jerkface July 26th, 2012 at 3:28 pm
The idea that CC needs a specific catcher to succeed is bollocks.
—————
No one said he needs Stewart to be a successful pitcher – but ball players are creatures of habit. CC and Stewart have a good thing going. Stewart knows what CC wants to throw, when he wants to throw it where he wants to throw it. Kotteras (a bad defensive catcher) would be asked to come in, learn the tendencies of a whole new pitching staff while they’re making a playoff push. And we’re not talking about upsetting this apple cart for Pudge Rodriguez in his prime. He would be, at best, a marginal offensive upgrade.
It’s a lot of squeezing for very little juice.
Bret The Hitman July 26th, 2012 at 3:28 pm
But Montero is not a position player, something the folks complaining about him nonstop have yet to grasp.
———–
Some people whine about others who speak in absolutes, especially, as Jerk rightly argues, that the evidence on Montero being a position player suggests otherwise.
Montero didn’t throw out Ichiro from the DH spot!
blake July 26th, 2012 at 3:24 pm
“Posters are conflating the thought process (it was always sound) with the target (Pineda).”
I always understood why they did it…..I just never really agreed with the decision…..I think they need offense going forward and thought it was making a new hole to try and repair an old one..
—————-
I think if we got a top ranked prospect like Strausburg it’d be different. Pineda’s K rate (although I don’t remember the exact numbers now) has had a lot of fluctuation and he doesn’t come with a full arsenal of pitches.
The thought process has never been the issue. Everyone can understand the thought process… but when they put it into practice it didn’t work out. In a year or two, this may be a moot point.. but right now, the M’s have at least one productive player at the MLB level and we have a guy who needed surgery and another on the DL. (Campos didn’t need surgery right? He’s still just on the DL?)
Jerkface July 26th, 2012 at 3:29 pm
But Montero is not a position player
–
Evidence suggests otherwise.
—————–
That’s true – DH is a position.
I don’t even care that much if Montero had caught long term…..I still think he’s going to be a really good big league hitter and the Yanks could use one of those going towards 2014 as much if not more than they needed a pitcher
Can’t take your own medicine. I see..
1) I’m nor so sure on Granderson. His increasing number of strikeouts and tendency to swing for the long ball due to the short porch in right are alarming. Yanks may have 2nd thoughts about resigning him if this trned continues.
2) I would love to see them build a young staff headed by CC then Hughes, Nova Phelps and hopefully Pineda. But if Hughes needs to be part of a package to land a guy like Justin Upton, I’d be willing to sacrifice him.
3) Swisher is a goner after this year, especially if they intend to keep Granderson.
He would be, at best, a marginal offensive upgrade.
It’s a lot of squeezing for very little juice.
–
More than a marginal upgrade, the Yankees are getting nothing out of catcher atm, and I think CC would handle the change just fine.
Bret The Hitman July 26th, 2012 at 3:28 pm
But Montero is not a position player, something the folks complaining about him nonstop have yet to grasp.
—————-
I think Montero and Arod have had similar DH/Field splits (I think they’re both at DH about 1/3 of the time). Anyone care to allow me to do some work and find those numbers for me?
The Royals want a big league ready starting pitching bad…..Cashman should talk with Moore and try to swindle him.
That’s true – DH is a position.
–
And catcher, where he plays half the time!
So if the book isn’t closed on Pineda’s career as a primary cog in that Yankee rotation then how could that same person argue that the book is all but closed on Montero’s long term value?
Bret-
Sorry, celebrating was a wrong choice of words, and was not meant to be aimed at anyone. It was a word of caution going forward. I hope Pineda comes to camp in the best shape of his career, and is one who has a long and successful career.
Did you see the quotes from his last interview? He clearly indicated he was now undecided about 2013.
============================
Referring to Mo: This is sacrilege but could it be, he was advised to say this to get a max salary again and not a makeup year of 2m.
Jerkface July 26th, 2012 at 3:34 pm
He would be, at best, a marginal offensive upgrade.
It’s a lot of squeezing for very little juice.
–
More than a marginal upgrade, the Yankees are getting nothing out of catcher atm, and I think CC would handle the change just fine.
——————-
Okie dokie – but again – what do the Yankees value more from the catching spot, offense or defense and work with the pitchers? All evidence points to the latter more than the former.
If a good defensive catcher who can hit becomes available I think the Yankees will be all over him – but for a blah defender who is also a blah hitter? I don’t see the Yankees being all that interested. Maybe, maybe they bring him in on a minor league deal for depth…but that’s where it ends.
Okie dokie – but again – what do the Yankees value more from the catching spot, offense or defense and work with the pitchers? All evidence points to the latter more than the former.
–
What the yankees value has nothing to do with people suggesting the Yankees do something! I don’t think the Yankees would deal for Kottaras, but he would be a clear upgrade if they did, because they aren’t getting defense out of the position and they definitely are not getting offense out of it.
Bret The Hitman July 26th, 2012 at 3:33 pm
Can’t take your own medicine. I see..
———-
Sounds like someone wants to change the subject when called on his weak arguments.
If a good defensive catcher who can hit becomes available I think the Yankees will be all over him – but for a blah defender who is also a blah hitter?
–
The former doesn’t exist as a tradeable entity and the latter is NOT a description of Kottaras, because he offers a .240 OPS swing over Stewart and a .140 OPS swing over Martin. Especially if you platoon him vs righties.
I have to reiterate that the Yankees are getting absolutely awful production from catcher. Significantly worse than league average which is already bad.
Giuseppe Franco July 26th, 2012 at 3:36 pm
So if the book isn’t closed on Pineda’s career as a primary cog in that Yankee rotation then how could that same person argue that the book is all but closed on Montero’s long term value?
——————-
Not to pee in someone else’s pool here – but Montero’s upside as a hitter is still there, but from most people who didn’t work for the Yankees his potential as a catcher was minimal at best. Now, at catcher is where his bat had the most value so it does make sense for teams to continue to force him in there. But with Justin Smoak in the process of busting it would not be a total shock for someone to slip a first baseman’s glove into Montero’s equipment bag this spring training.
Montero didn’t throw out Ichiro from the DH spot!
===================
Ichiro got a horrible jump and still almost made it.
Jerkface July 26th, 2012 at 3:39 pm
What the yankees value has nothing to do with people suggesting the Yankees do something! I don’t think the Yankees would deal for Kottaras,
————————
On this point we’re in agreement.
Ichiro got a horrible jump and still almost made it.
–
He got thrown out by 5 feet. He slid into the glove that already had the ball.
go check the replay
I keep hoping August Romine will be an option down the stretch.
Jerkface July 26th, 2012 at 3:29 pm
But Montero is not a position player
–
Evidence suggests otherwise.
—————————————————————————————
I saw the play and his technique was perfect on that throw to 2nd base when Ichiro attempted the steal.
The M’s announcers were raving at his improved footwork and perfect throw on that play.
I hate to admit it, but he looked good for that 1 throw. I can’t speak if he is throwing like that consistently or not.
Does that 1 throw make him a good or very good defensive catcher? NO. It does show me the kid may have improved some.
Blake,
exactly…we understood the thought process involved, we just didn´t agree with it.
GF,
As usual right on point.
Bret,
If anything this season has shown is that we never needed Pineda in the first place. And I can see that you didn´t watch yesterday´s game. Montero is a C, he does play a position.
A FA signing of a Stud pitcher= The return of Pineda? First he needs to pitch, then he needs to throw a FB at 95 plus, then he needs to learn a CU. After that he has to go through the learining curve ( he has only pitched one season in MLB) and convert the potential in to a reality. A far cry from ace stud pitcher.
go check the replay
–
Seems like you need to? Ichiro got smoked.
Girardi and Cashman know how important defense is from the catching position
After that he has to go through the learining curve ( he has only pitched one season in MLB) and convert the potential in to a reality.
====================
same can be said for the prodigal son.
Catch me up to speed 1st on a right handed bat for 3rd base.
Who won out?
Nix
Nunez
Wiggington
Polanco
Scutaro
If Josh Johnson becomes available, would anyone be willing to give the Marlins Hughes or Nova as part of a deal? Does Johnson to the Rangers make them WS favorites?
Jerkface July 26th, 2012 at 3:45 pm
Ichiro got a horrible jump and still almost made it.
–
He got thrown out by 5 feet. He slid into the glove that already had the ball.
—————
The other day I bought a bag of almonds…walking home I tripped and a few of them fell on the ground. One bounced right to this squirrel that had no eyes.
Ichiro got smoked.
=============
more the result of a poor jump, maybe it was a hit and run gone bad.
Girardi and Cashman know how important defense is from the catching position
–
Do they know that right now they are not getting any? If they love defense so much why is it that the 2 guys they brought in with defensive reps have been very below average defensively? Errors, PBs, CS%, Attempts against. Stewart has 5 PBs in less than 300 innings, 22% CS rate, and 4 errors.
They brought a no bat all glove player in to back up and it turns out he is a no bat no glove type.
Yankee Trader July 26th, 2012 at 3:49 pm
Catch me up to speed 1st on a right handed bat for 3rd base.
Who won out?
Nix
Nunez
Wiggington
Polanco
Scutaro
If Josh Johnson becomes available, would anyone be willing to give the Marlins Hughes or Nova as part of a deal? Does Johnson to the Rangers make them WS favorites?
——————–
I would still go with Jeff Baker over anyone on that list – plus Polanco was just put on the DL so that pretty much takes both him and Wiggington off the board.
And no, I don’t want Josh Johnson.
BloggingBombers
Nick Swisher took batting practice and ran the bases at the Stadium today without any problems. He’ll be back vs. Sox Friday or Saturday.
Bobby (NY)
Do concerns remain about Gary Sanchez’s defense?
Klaw (1:12 PM)
They are much smaller than they were last year.
more the result of a poor jump, maybe it was a hit and run gone bad.
–
He never looked in, it was a straight steal. You’re wrong.
you have to forgive the FO/coaching staff…. in their minds, any catcher that can’t hit has to be a defensive wizard
In their minds, the better the offensive player, the worse catcher they are and the worse hitter they are, the better defender they are
so in their eyes, the fact that our catching position has the worst OPS in the league means that they in effect have the best defensive catching tandem in the leage
The other day I bought a bag of almonds…walking home I tripped and a few of them fell on the ground. One bounced right to this squirrel that had no eyes.
–
In this analogy the blind squirrel finds a nut 19% of the time compared to Chris Stewart’s 22% of the time. Chris Stewart can barely beat a blind squirrel?
Its ok to admit that Montero is not hopeless at catcher.
He never looked in, it was a straight steal. You’re wrong.
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if so,then it was a horribly poor jump.
montero only needed to catch until tex’s contract was up. i believe he would have been 26 or 27 then
It’s true – the catching has been horrible. Front office did a terrible job there. If the catching was better this team might have a shot at being a playoff contender, maybe even having one of the better records in baseball…but with Martin and Stewart back there – no chance.
Its ok to admit that Montero is not hopeless at catcher.
====================
why because he threw a runner out.
sounds like that loud foul ball he hit or the great catch that robbed him.
sounds like grasping at straws…
“Its ok to admit that Montero is not hopeless at catcher.”
but by doing so, some fans would have to admit that this regime, gasp, might have made a foolish trade and that would go against their mantra of the “FO can do no wrong”. So it is counterproductive for them to praise Montero because it is indictment on the FO for trading him away for a dead pitcher.
Mick,
There is a little difference….We need a bat more than we need a pitcher…On top of it and as trader pointed out, we don´t even know that he will be able to play again still….We know that he is going to hit and that he plays the C position rather well.
Forget the thorw out of Ichiro, what about the throw that almos t caught Grandeson? An off balanced throw from an off speed offering, from the knees and almost caught him? He does have an arm, not to mention the blocks he made behind the plate.
Jerkface July 26th, 2012 at 3:53 pm
more the result of a poor jump, maybe it was a hit and run gone bad.
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He never looked in, it was a straight steal. You’re wrong.
——————————————————————————————————–
I want to say that was a straight steal and Montero(Johnny Bench) threw
him out with ease.
why because he threw a runner out.
–
He has thrown more than 1 runner out you know. You’re basically trying to cry conspiracy to deny him credit.
Jerkface July 26th, 2012 at 3:55 pm
The other day I bought a bag of almonds…walking home I tripped and a few of them fell on the ground. One bounced right to this squirrel that had no eyes.
–
In this analogy the blind squirrel finds a nut 19% of the time compared to Chris Stewart’s 22% of the time. Chris Stewart can barely beat a blind squirrel?
Its ok to admit that Montero is not hopeless at catcher.
—————-
It’s also ok to admit that to shut down a running game takes help from the pitcher. Stewart primarily catches CC who has a notoriously bad pick off move and is slow to the plate.
There is a little difference….We need a bat more than we need a pitcher…
===================================
This is just your opinion , not fact.
Jerkface July 26th, 2012 at 3:57 pm
why because he threw a runner out.
–
He has thrown more than 1 runner out you know. You’re basically trying to cry conspiracy to deny him credit.
———–
Not trying to deny him credit – simply questioning his ability to remain there long term. Much like Pineda’s value – time will tell.
You’re basically trying to cry conspiracy to deny him credit.
==================
stop stereotyping, you’re grasping at straws and you know it.
It’s also ok to admit that to shut down a running game takes help from the pitcher. Stewart primarily catches CC who has a notoriously bad pick off move and is slow to the plate.
–
Ok so CC’s horribleness reduces a guys CS% by 50%? Seattle has a bunch of bad runner holders as well, but you don’t care about that for Montero. Here is a point to this: If the Yankees pitching staff is so inept as to render 2 ‘gold glove’ type catchers into useless defenders why bother focusing on defense? Stack the position with guys that can hit.
We know that he is going to hit and that he plays the C position rather well.
==============================
Impossible to know what he will do in the future unless you are a prophet.
stop stereotyping, you’re grasping at straws and you know it.
–
What exactly is the stereotype there? You are the one that is making excuses for Ichiro. Hilarious.
Not a fact? Look at the runs scored and the proyection and then comeback and talk
Montero discussion? Cool! I can’t wait to scroll back and find some fresh new insights on this vexing issue.
Ok so CC’s horribleness reduces a guys CS% by 50%? Seattle has a bunch of bad runner holders as well, but you don’t care about that for Montero. Here is a point to this: If the Yankees pitching staff is so inept as to render 2 ‘gold glove’ type catchers into useless defenders why bother focusing on defense? Stack the position with guys that can hit.
=========================
This……
mick July 26th, 2012 at 3:58 pm
There is a little difference….We need a bat more than we need a pitcher…
===================================
This is just your opinion , not fact.
——–
It’s a strong argument based on facts and the long term state of the organization.
ok luis the yanks can’t hit, you win…
according to Randy the primary job of the catcher is to stop the ball from hitting the backstop….Montero does that most of the time
I’m confused. What does a blind squirrel eating Chip’s nuts have to do with baseball.
And Mick….Instead of taking phrases from a post, publish the whole post and copmment on it…
Bring Gary Sanchez up!
thanks luis i’ll look into that…
Again you miss the point…We are declining, runs scored are a very telling stat…We still score plenty, but that doesn´t mean that we wouldn´t do better by adding a good bat…On the pitching side, we have sustained an inordinate amount of injuries and we are still in pretty good shape.
“according to Randy the primary job of the catcher is to stop the ball from hitting the backstop…”
According to another randy, the position of catcher is a complex, highly specialized one. We should get these two randys together sometime and let them hash it out.
I don’t know, but I don’t see Scutaro as a big upgrade over Nix. Nix proved yesterday that he has the capability to bring himself in during a moment and execute. That’s all most of us want from these guys. Make the situations count. Don’t pop out or K. Wait for a pitch and drive it and get the run in.
That being said, I would love the idea that the Red Sox were paying his salary while he played for us and he could replace Pena’s spot on the roster since he can play 2b, SS.
I just wouldn’t want him to be our every day 3b. Keeping Chavez in against RHP if he’s healthy is imperative to me.
Jerkface July 26th, 2012 at 4:01 pm
Ok so CC’s horribleness reduces a guys CS% by 50%? Seattle has a bunch of bad runner holders as well, but you don’t care about that for Montero. Here is a point to this: If the Yankees pitching staff is so inept as to render 2 ‘gold glove’ type catchers into useless defenders why bother focusing on defense? Stack the position with guys that can hit.
——————————
Defense is about more than throwing out base runners. It is also about how well a catcher works with pitchers or how he calls a game.
When joba comes back whose spot in the rotation will he take?
Again you miss the point…
==================
…your points are easy to miss.
Aside from injuries, the ongoing theme all season has been about the Yanks’ aging offense and their inability to hit with RISP.
The pitching has carried this team since May.
“According to another randy, the position of catcher is a complex, highly specialized one. We should get these two randys together sometime and let them hash it out.”
that would be fun to watch
Yankee Trader July 26th, 2012 at 4:04 pm
I’m confused. What does a blind squirrel eating Chip’s nuts have to do with baseball.
—————————-
This whole blog post has taken a wrong turn lol.
Defense is about more than throwing out base runners. It is also about how well a catcher works with pitchers or how he calls a game.
–
CC seems to do just fine over his entire Yankee career with lots of different catchers. Montero caught a no hitter. That is overblown.
HR’s have carried this team.
Who is old? Jeter, he looks young to me. Alex, he is carrying his weight.
Chip,
Calling games is learned and he does have soft hands behind the plate. It was his size ( ability to block wild pitches) and his inability to transfer the ball fast to throw to second that was used to imply that he could never catch. Well, he blocks some pitches yesterday and made two very quick throws to second.
“According to another randy, the position of catcher is a complex, highly specialized one. We should get these two randys together sometime and let them hash it out.”
===========================
Let them duel it out from 60′ 6 inches and see which randy wins.
Jeter, he looks young to me.
Alex, he is carrying his weight.
———————-
Jeter looks the same as he did when he first up minus the hair.
He is??
well alex hasn’t been great and might be showing signs of age but the rest of the team’s age has been exaggerated.
Looking forward to the return of Joba.
I assume his role will bump Cody Eppley down a notch.
If Joba were pitching in those Oakland games, the Yankees might not have lost the 2 games
where Eppley pitched.
Jerkface July 26th, 2012 at 4:11 pm
Defense is about more than throwing out base runners. It is also about how well a catcher works with pitchers or how he calls a game.
–
CC seems to do just fine over his entire Yankee career with lots of different catchers. Montero caught a no hitter. That is overblown.
——————–
Phil Humber pitched a perfect game – that doesn’t make him a good pitcher.
Again – I’m not saying Montero can’t be a good catcher. I’m saying that the Yankees didn’t feel that over the long term he would be a good catcher and that his ultimate position would be at DH. Given that – trading a DH for a pitcher on a team that can’t carry a permanent DH makes perfect sense.
talking about age esp andy and kuroda, that would indicate getting younger pitching
Against All Odds July 26th, 2012 at 4:16 pm
Jeter, he looks young to me.
Alex, he is carrying his weight.
———————-
Jeter looks the same as he did when he first up minus the hair.
He is??
=============================
I guess he is so old, that to him everyone looks young
Hahaha – the poetics – the wax
The wax poetics that Montero can catch because he threw late 30s Ichiro out. . .
The poetics and wax that the Montero fan boys are on their last leg
Leave aside the hitting for now and the lost argument of – he is just 22 – meanwhile Trout is younger and proving to be generational – leave that aside – LEAVE IT ASIDE – and leave aside – oh it really matter in 2014
Here are the defensive metrics for the poetic defensive serviceable beauty that is Jesus Montero:
In 36 GS, and a total of 37 Games played at Catcher:
His CS % is 19% (in 37 attempts – he has had 30 guys steal on him), 5 passed balls, 2 errors, and pitchers have thrown 14 wild pitches to him.
This is in 36 games started – he is NOT catching everyday – it is limited action – and he is still below league average – not even a full time starter. Let’s see how Montero is doing when he catches 110-120 games in a full season – - – -
But wait – the Montero fan boys want to wax poetics and guarantee that he WILL hit and that he WILL be a fulltime catcher.
Oh Montero fan boys – to concede otherwise that Montero is not this 1 OPS All Star catcher in the making would mean to undermine everything you are as a fan. For these same fans are more obsessed with Montero and the FO than the first place team on the field.
Remember – these are the same Montero fan boys who rush over from Pinestripes Plus and act all scouty and elitist on this blog. No – the campaign will continue against Montero fan boys and their “rush” to proclaim generational greatness and 1 OPS stats and proclamations that he WILL hit (intead of – he has the potential to hit).
The wax poetics continues – and so does my job to push back agains this elitist know it all mantra – - – -
The poetics – the wax – the wax poetics – - – -
I guess he is so old, that to him everyone looks young
=========================
so now we find out you are an ageist.
first came up****
Go to the clinic and get your medication dude
luis July 26th, 2012 at 4:19 pm
Against All Odds July 26th, 2012 at 4:16 pm
Jeter, he looks young to me.
Alex, he is carrying his weight.
———————-
Jeter looks the same as he did when he first up minus the hair.
He is??
=============================
I guess he is so old, that to him everyone looks young
———————-
lol
Go to the clinic and get your medication dude
============================
not only old people but the infirmed, truth coming out…
>Mick,
The medication comment wasn´t directed to you. The other one was joke, ligthen up a little
i know who the comment was directed at, get a clue…
Surm it would be wonderful if Ichiro could have an OBA of .355 career down the stretch. But, let’s get real. His OBA was was .310 last year and .289 this year. I’m glad the Yanks traded for him, becuase of his defense and speed, but he should be batting ninth.
First, get well you all!
Second, there were at least three typos. The first was “doesn’t including” in the first paragraph.