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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Is Chamberlain the bullpen’s missing piece?

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Aug 02, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Before he ran to the mound yesterday, Joba Chamberlain took a second to look around. More than a year had passed since he’d last pitched in a big league game, and Yankee Stadium was prepared to give him a big ovation. Chamberlain tried to take in the moment.

“I did a little bit,” he said. “Minus the raindrops in my eyes, it was something that I can’t forget. I’ll remember it just like I remember the first time I walked into old Yankee Stadium, and just to know the feelings that I got, to know that I’m back out there, helping this team.”

Truth is, Chamberlain didn’t help the Yankees too much in his return from the disabled list. His fastball didn’t hum with the velocity everyone expected, and he had a tough time against the first big league hitters he’d faced since June 5 of last year — “It doesn’t matter where you’re at, if you don’t execute pitches, they’re going to get hit,” he said — but Chamberlain was back, and that mattered as much as anything. He had his ankle taped, but said he never feels any pain there anymore. He said he hasn’t felt pain in his elbow in months.

“I didn’t come here just to play with my towels and go out there and play catch,” he said. “I want to be in the game. Obviously I’ve got to prove that, and I’m fine with that. Obviously they believe in me to do my work and to understand how hard I’ve worked and what my stuff has been, so as I said, I’ll get the ball on Friday and go to work.”

Despite losing Mariano Rivera for the season, and losing Dave Robertson for a month, the Yankees bullpen has been a strength. David Phelps’ prospect status has soared, Cody Eppley has emerged and Clay Rapada has been a better-than-expected situational lefty. The Yankees knew they could count on Robertson and Rafael Soriano, but the other pieces have also fallen into place nicely.

Now it’s time to add Chamberlain. This is the bullpen arm the Yankees have been waiting for, a known commodity who could be more than a nice, unexpected role player. Will he fit the way the Yankees hope?

“I expect him to be a right hander that gets right handers and left handers out, just not a specialty guy,” Joe Girardi said. “That’s how I’m going to integrate him. As he throws better, obviously you give people more responsibility. … I’m sure there’s a lot of things that went into (yesterday). Being out over a year, coming back from two serious injuries, there’s probably a lot of emotions that went on. I was glad he wasn’t over pumped up. That was my biggest concern with him going out there. There was a lot of emotion from the fans as well, happy to see him come back. I think you’ll see him continue to improve as time goes on.”

Associated Press photo 

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220 Responses to “Is Chamberlain the bullpen’s missing piece?”

  1. blake August 2nd, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    Hopeflly…..fingers crossed

  2. St. Pete Yankee August 2nd, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    We need Joba to be our seventh inning man. If he can regain his old form, then we will have the best 7-8-9 inning staff in baseball.

  3. Nick in SF August 2nd, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    I’ve always felt responsible for Joba’s injury, so I’m very happy to finally see him back in the Bronx.

  4. Cashmoney August 2nd, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    chamberlain adds another option to drob, sori. late inning options. can he do it? we will see.

  5. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    I’ve always felt responsible for Joba’s injury, so I’m very happy to finally see him back in the Bronx.
    ——————————–
    Nick-

    So it was you who gave Joba those free passes to the trampoline center for him and his little boy!

  6. blake August 2nd, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    Trenton is killing Altoon 9-3. Adams has homered, Zoila has homered. Pretty typical start for Betances….5 innings, 3 runs, 4 walks….93 pitches.

    here’s the box

    http://www.milb.com/milb/stats.....x_treaax_1

  7. blake August 2nd, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    Joe (Chicago)

    Any chance the Mark Montgomery is a top ten Yankees prospect next season?
    Klaw (2:05 PM)

    I don’t boost relievers that much in my rankings, but I do like Montgomery for what he is.

  8. Cashmoney August 2nd, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    david adams might be ready for AAA promotions as he dusting off the 2 year rust… me think they put him at 3b to gain versatility but also give him a spot to play. time to release petboy pena and make kevin russo your future super u back up in the minor.

  9. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    Blake-
    Thanks for the Trenton update. Tell me about Montgomery. Closer potential? Velocity?

  10. jskwrite August 2nd, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    the biggest problem for the bullpen is that the starting pitching after CC is very average, so they have to come in to a lot of close games despite the offense scoring plenty of runs. Kuroda has been solid recently, Hughes has been OK but gives up a lot of HR, Nova has regressed, Garcia is a solid fifth starter, but only a fifth starter. If there’s no Andy in the post-season, this is going to be another exit in the first round of the playoffs. Angels, Texas and Tampa (if they are in) all have proven better starting pitching after the #1 spot. Oakland and Chicago have better starting pitching than us this year. Detroit of recent has had better starting pitching too. I don’t see the Yankees going to Texas or Angels (division loser there is our likely first opponent after wild card game) in games 1 or 2 and winning a game vs. either of their #2, #3 and #4 pitchers on the road unless CC is lights out in game 1 (a possibility). They throw their ace vs. Garcia/Nova/Hughes in game 3 or 4 @Yankee Stadium – going to be a tall order to win that game. So we’d have to win Games 3/4 or 5, one of which is started by Garcia/Hughes/Nova vs. a better Texas or Angels pitcher. Yikes.

  11. blake August 2nd, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    Yankeesource ?@YankeeSource
    Dice-K in his first year with Boston had 80 walks in 204.2 IP, Yu Darvish has 70 walks in 127.1 IP this year.

    yikes

  12. tomingeorgia August 2nd, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    If anyone cares, the Flying Squirrel won the Gold in the all-around this afternoon.

  13. blake August 2nd, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    trader,

    new post at RAB is about Montgomery…check it out. http://riveraveblues.com/2012/.....ver-73298/

  14. blake August 2nd, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    Kuroda and Hughes both have ERA’s under 4….and Hughes ERA over his last 10 starts is under 3…..not below average at all.

  15. Cashmoney August 2nd, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    starting rotation is fine … they just don’t have a guy in which i say to myself, if he is on, the opposing has zero chance. but that’s just my opinion.

  16. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2012 at 2:37 pm

    Kuroda is below average, well below the average starting pitcher’s average AL ERA’s. He is an Ace and would easily have 3-4 more wins if the team gave him run support.

    Blake-
    Thanks for the RAB link. I’ll check it out.

  17. bruceb August 2nd, 2012 at 2:44 pm

    tomingeorgia August 2nd, 2012 at 2:30 pm
    If anyone cares, the Flying Squirrel won the Gold in the all-around this afternoon.

    More interested in the action inside the velodrome today.

  18. blake August 2nd, 2012 at 2:44 pm

    “starting rotation is fine … they just don’t have a guy in which i say to myself, if he is on, the opposing has zero chance. but that’s just my opinion.”

    how many of those guys are there really though?

  19. RadioKev August 2nd, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    AH good, happy to read that RAB post on Monty. The numbers are filthy enough for the bigs.

  20. Cashmoney August 2nd, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    must be weird for guys coming up from minor for a cup of coffee then get send back down in a matter of days… sort of like one day you are staying at bellagio presidential suite among all the stars then have to pack up for motel desperado with the normal peeps.

  21. jacksquat August 2nd, 2012 at 2:50 pm

    tomingeorgia August 2nd, 2012 at 2:30 pm
    If anyone cares, the Flying Squirrel won the Gold in the all-around this afternoon.

    Myself and others have already asked that people don’t post Olympics results on this board.

    I hadn’t seen that yet and would have preferred to watch it not knowing the result. Thanks a lot.

  22. Chip August 2nd, 2012 at 2:54 pm

    Can’t see the Yankees pushing Montgomery to the bigs this year – there’s really no reason to start the arbitration clock on him with Joba, Soriano, Robertson and Aardsma coming along as well.

    Going forward though – I do think he could be fast tracked up – he’ll probably get a very good look in Spring Training and be given an opportunity to earn a spot.

    I don’t think he has the power to be there full time, but transitioning Adams to 3b is a good move. It’s possible the Yankees give extended looks to him and Laird in the spring with an eye towards making Alex a full time DH. Also, they have McGehee under team control if they want him and think he can be productive.

  23. tomingeorgia August 2nd, 2012 at 2:55 pm

    JS,
    Humble apologies.

  24. Tackelberry August 2nd, 2012 at 3:00 pm

    Wonder if Aardsma or Feliciano will appear in a game before the end of the year

  25. Hassey August 2nd, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    anyone see Chapman closing out the Reds’ win last night with like 8 straight pitches to Forsythe between 100-102? He’s allowed only 7 baserunners since the AS break

  26. Chip August 2nd, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    Tackelberry August 2nd, 2012 at 3:00 pm

    Wonder if Aardsma or Feliciano will appear in a game before the end of the year
    —————————–

    I would imagine at the earliest it would be after the rosters expand in September

  27. EA August 2nd, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    JeffPassan
    Source: Phillies have placed Cliff Lee on waivers. Executives expect him to clear Friday afternoon, be eligible for trade.

  28. Chip August 2nd, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    Hassey August 2nd, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    anyone see Chapman closing out the Reds’ win last night with like 8 straight pitches to Forsythe between 100-102? He’s allowed only 7 baserunners since the AS break
    ——————

    My guess is that Neftali Feliz’s TJ surgery and Daniel Bard’s awfulness will put an end to any talk about moving Chapman to the rotation.

  29. Chip August 2nd, 2012 at 3:04 pm

    EA August 2nd, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    JeffPassan
    Source: Phillies have placed Cliff Lee on waivers. Executives expect him to clear Friday afternoon, be eligible for trade.
    ————————-

    The question is whether or not the Phillies would let him go if a team put in a claim to try to keep him from being eligible for trade.

  30. Hassey August 2nd, 2012 at 3:04 pm

    gotta respect the Phils for manning up, calling it what it is, taking the pill and stocking up for the next run

  31. jacksquat August 2nd, 2012 at 3:05 pm

    I think they would only move Arod to DH full time if they had a very good long term candidate for 3B. I don’t think Nunez and probably not Adams is that.

    And everyone keeps talking about DH’ing Alex but his fielding is fine and most of the time he is not hurt while fielding. His hip problem was caused by torque from swinging, his latest was a hit by pitch, etc. I think he’ll be at 3B for a while.

  32. Hassey August 2nd, 2012 at 3:07 pm

    Chip – don’t forget Jobber. Chapman is without peer since Randy Johnson was at his peak. Can he keep us this pace? Who know. But right now he is IT…untouchable…no need to mess with someone so dominant at what he does.

  33. Chip August 2nd, 2012 at 3:07 pm

    jacksquat August 2nd, 2012 at 3:05 pm

    I think they would only move Arod to DH full time if they had a very good long term candidate for 3B. I don’t think Nunez and probably not Adams is that.

    And everyone keeps talking about DH’ing Alex but his fielding is fine and most of the time he is not hurt while fielding. His hip problem was caused by torque from swinging, his latest was a hit by pitch, etc. I think he’ll be at 3B for a while.
    —————–

    It’s possible – but it’s also possible that they want to get a little younger and more athletic in the field – and if these kids show that they should be playing, they’ll have to get creative to find places for them given the long term commitments on the roster.

  34. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2012 at 3:11 pm

    “There are plenty of examples from the Yankee system of organizational arms who posted silly minor league numbers, but never amounted to anything in the majors. Colter Bean, Josh Schmidt, and Edwar Ramirez are several examples of this phenomenon. Bean and Schmidt were sidearmers who largely got by on deception, while Ramirez was a one-trick pony, relying heavily on a changeup.”

    Wll sidearmers Eppley and Rapada lose their effectivenes as more teams get to see them second time around? CU artist Wade is dominationg at AAA. Do you see him returning?

  35. DONNYBROOK August 2nd, 2012 at 3:11 pm

    That’s a “trick question”. This Yankee bullpen does Not have a “missing piece”. Chamberlain will be extremely valuable because Girardi has Not had the opportunity to run him out there till his arm falls off.

  36. blake August 2nd, 2012 at 3:20 pm

    David Cameron ?@DCameronFG
    Be fun if the Dodgers claimed Cliff Lee. If they have $45 million for Yasiel Puig, $90 million for Lee shouldn’t be out of the question.

  37. blake August 2nd, 2012 at 3:20 pm

    Buster Olney ?@Buster_ESPN
    Before the deadline, the Phillies told teams they weren’t willing to eat ANY of the $97m owed to Cliff Lee, and they wanted prime prospects.

    good luck with that

  38. blake August 2nd, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    wouldn’t shock me if the Dodgers or Rangers either one claimed Lee

  39. Hassey August 2nd, 2012 at 3:23 pm

    Cliff Lee cursed…his whole career, every headline and every change of uni, has had hair on it

  40. jacksquat August 2nd, 2012 at 3:24 pm

    If Cliff Lee is claimed off waivers and the Phillies don’t pull him back, his no-trades in his contract doesn’t matter, right?

  41. blake August 2nd, 2012 at 3:25 pm

    “If Cliff Lee is claimed off waivers and the Phillies don’t pull him back, his no-trades in his contract doesn’t matter, right?”

    no…the no trades still apply

  42. Chip August 2nd, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2012 at 3:11 pm

    “There are plenty of examples from the Yankee system of organizational arms who posted silly minor league numbers, but never amounted to anything in the majors. Colter Bean, Josh Schmidt, and Edwar Ramirez are several examples of this phenomenon. Bean and Schmidt were sidearmers who largely got by on deception, while Ramirez was a one-trick pony, relying heavily on a changeup.”

    Wll sidearmers Eppley and Rapada lose their effectivenes as more teams get to see them second time around? CU artist Wade is dominationg at AAA. Do you see him returning?
    ——————-

    I think the goal with guys like Wade is to find the next one rather than to rely heavily on the current one. Eppley and Rapada less so because they are what they are which is specialists. No matter how often a left handed hitter sees Clay Rapada it’s still going to be hard to hit him based on the fact that hitters are used to seeing the ball come out at a certain angle and he’s doing it differently.

    Kind of like how if every pitcher threw a knuckleball then hitting a knuckler wouldn’t be as hard, it’s the fact that it is so different than what you see the majority of the time that makes it more effective than the pitch itself.

    Wade on the other hand is a more conventional pitcher who just changed speed effectively, but from a pure stuff standpoint there was nothing there that a major league hitter can’t hit.

    That’s one of the things that makes Rivera so special. Here’s a guy who throws a pitch that many other pitchers throw. His motion is fairly conventional, he doesn’t fire it in at 100 mph – but, by and large, players can’t adjust to it.

  43. jacksquat August 2nd, 2012 at 3:27 pm

    Even if he is not pulled back, it is still considered a “trade”? Weird.

  44. Chip August 2nd, 2012 at 3:27 pm

    blake August 2nd, 2012 at 3:25 pm

    “If Cliff Lee is claimed off waivers and the Phillies don’t pull him back, his no-trades in his contract doesn’t matter, right?”

    no…the no trades still apply
    —————–

    well they apply in that the team that claims him will have to abide by them – but if he’s claimed off waivers and Philly just let’s him go then he has to report to the team that claimed him regardless of whether or not he wants to.

  45. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2012 at 3:27 pm

    Maybe A-Rod could be traded for him. Can’t put players on the 40 man roster that are on the DL thru waivers.

  46. blake August 2nd, 2012 at 3:28 pm

    it’s doubtful that the Phillies would let Lee go without compensation…..so to me there isn’t all that much risk in claiming him and trying to work out a deal…..if you can’t work out something then they’ll just pull him back and you’ve blocked him from going anywhere else…..

    I don’t know if I’d let him clear is what I’m saying…..they couldn’t pull him back if they placed him on waivers again.

  47. Chip August 2nd, 2012 at 3:28 pm

    I tend to think of Eppley as a poor man’s Jeff Nelson.

  48. blake August 2nd, 2012 at 3:29 pm

    “well they apply in that the team that claims him will have to abide by them – but if he’s claimed off waivers and Philly just let’s him go then he has to report to the team that claimed him regardless of whether or not he wants to.”

    if they just cut him loose then maybe…..but I can’t see them doing that….

  49. blake August 2nd, 2012 at 3:30 pm

    I’m not sure that’s true Chip….anybody confirm? I know that the no trades still apply in a trade….not sure if they just let him go….

  50. DONNYBROOK August 2nd, 2012 at 3:30 pm

    Rangers showing panic with Olt promotion. They Know the Angels gave ‘em one last night. Nollie continues to exhibit that this is gonna be the last rodeo for this group of players. Hamilton gone.

  51. jacksquat August 2nd, 2012 at 3:30 pm

    I can’t see them just dumping him either, they will try to get something for him, I was just wondering how that worked technically.

  52. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    Chip-

    I don’t follow. Lee would have to waive his NT, I thought.

  53. blake August 2nd, 2012 at 3:32 pm

    but seriously if I’m the Yankees I probably claim him if nobody else does…..I wouldn’t want him to clear and then go to Texas or somebody and help them in the playoffs.

    The Yanks could claim him and then play hardball…..I don’t think they’d just cut him loose……the Phillies would likely pull him back and then you’ve pretty much blocked him from being traded anywhere else….

  54. blake August 2nd, 2012 at 3:32 pm

    Ken Rosenthal ?@Ken_Rosenthal
    #Dodgers maybe only team that would even consider claiming Cliff Lee, daring #Phillies to dump $. But Lee would not be worth that as FA now

    they are bluffing….they wouldn’t jump dump him IMO

  55. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2012 at 3:35 pm

    Here are some August waiver rules:

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....ugust.html

  56. jacksquat August 2nd, 2012 at 3:36 pm

    I don’t think the Yankees can/will take the risk of him just being dumped on them with that contract. It might be low risk, but can you imagine? Talk about throwing a wrench in future plans.

  57. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    Remember, once you pull a player back, if you put them on waivers again it’s irrevocable.

  58. blake August 2nd, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    “I don’t think the Yankees can/will take the risk of him just being dumped on them with that contract. It might be low risk, but can you imagine? Talk about throwing a wrench in future plans.”

    eh….he’d help this this year….and next….then they could try and dump him themselves…..Hal would freak out though….I kinda want them to just to see that

  59. Chip August 2nd, 2012 at 3:38 pm

    Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    Chip-

    I don’t follow. Lee would have to waive his NT, I thought.
    ————

    If the Phillies want to trade Lee then he has to waive his NTC. If a team claims him on waivers and the Phillies let him go without compensation then it is not a trade, therefor a NTC doesn’t apply.

  60. DONNYBROOK August 2nd, 2012 at 3:38 pm

    Currently, Texas would have waiver Priority vs the Yankees.

  61. Chip August 2nd, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    I believe, could be wrong, that Alex Rios had a NTC and the Blue Jays put him on waivers, Chi Sox put in a claim and Toronto just let him go.

  62. blake August 2nd, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    “Remember, once you pull a player back, if you put them on waivers again it’s irrevocable.”

    right…..I really don’t think the Phillies would just let him go with nothing in return…..to me they’d much prefer to try to trade him this winter…..so I’d gamble and claim him I think and see if you could work out something where they ate a bunch of money…..you likely couldn’t….they’d pull him back…….and you keep the Rangers from getting him via trade now…..JMO….there would be the risk of them just saying ok take him…..but I really doubt they’d do that….

  63. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    The Phillies could dump him if they want to be in play for position players like Melky, Hamilton

  64. blake August 2nd, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    “Currently, Texas would have waiver Priority vs the Yankees.”

    correct….but I’m just saying I don’t think I’d let him clear waivers….Texas may not want to take the risk that Philly would just give them that whole contract…..

  65. G. Love August 2nd, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    George would claim Lee to take options away from his competition if Lee were to clear waivers.

    Hal won’t.

    Pointless to debate.

  66. blake August 2nd, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    “The Phillies could dump him if they want to be in play for position players like Melky, Hamilton”

    they could…..but wouldn’t you prefer to try to trade him this winter and save some of that money…..get some prospects et….

  67. blake August 2nd, 2012 at 3:42 pm

    “Hal won’t.”

    nope probably not….Hal would blow a gasket if they claimed him and Philly let him go….

  68. austinmac August 2nd, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    I can’t see any team trading to take on the enormous contract. It matters not about the Yankees position, they already have said unequivocally they wouldn’t be involved. I would prefer he not end up with the Rangers.z

  69. Chip August 2nd, 2012 at 3:45 pm

    blake August 2nd, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    “The Phillies could dump him if they want to be in play for position players like Melky, Hamilton”

    they could…..but wouldn’t you prefer to try to trade him this winter and save some of that money…..get some prospects et….
    ———————-

    That’s preferable, but there are a couple of problems:

    1. What if Lee won’t waive his NTC
    2. What are you getting back with that contract if you’re not willing to eat any money.

  70. DONNYBROOK August 2nd, 2012 at 3:45 pm

    Yeah, Skinflint Hal aint got the balls his Father had.

  71. G. Love August 2nd, 2012 at 3:48 pm

    If I’m Cliff Lee & all I’m hearing is the Phillies are trying to dump me I’m feeling pretty stupid right about now. He could’ve been a Yankee secure with a no trade clause knowing where his family would be for the duration of his contract. Now Philly, even though he has a no trade, is doing everything they can to let him know they want out.

  72. jacksquat August 2nd, 2012 at 3:49 pm

    To be honest, if I owned the Yankees I wouldn’t claim Lee either. He’s a good pitcher but not worth anywhere near that contract. If they got stuck with him it would seriously alter future plans (as we suspect they are approximately). You could kiss Swisher and Granderson goodbye for sure, and forget about Melky or anyone like that. Even Cano would be a stretch. Could be disasterous.

  73. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2012 at 3:49 pm

    If the Phillies want to trade Lee then he has to waive his NTC. If a team claims him on waivers and the Phillies let him go without compensation then it is not a trade, therefor a NTC doesn’t apply.
    ———————————-
    Chip-

    Lee only knows he’s been put on waivers now thru the media. I’m not an attorney, but he has a NTC clause to 21 teams and if the Phillies “dump” him on one of those 21, he should be able to refuse a trade to any one of those 21 teams, and probably can refuse to report.

  74. austinmac August 2nd, 2012 at 3:50 pm

    Chip,

    I think your Rios recollection is accurate.

  75. blake August 2nd, 2012 at 3:51 pm

    “If I’m Cliff Lee & all I’m hearing is the Phillies are trying to dump me I’m feeling pretty stupid right about now. ”

    Seriously ……he chose to come there after they traded hin to Seattle…..gave them a discount….and now less than 2 years later they are trying to dump him.and make hin move his family again……Id be pissed.

  76. kd August 2nd, 2012 at 3:52 pm

    g love,

    100% correct. in fact, he probably took a pay cut to go to philly. it also has to be disconcerting to see the phillies trade away two all star caliber outfielders

    hopefully the red sox don’t trade for him. i think he’s still got a chance to be a solid number 2 pitcher

  77. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2012 at 3:53 pm

    Blake-

    If I’m Amaro and have any concerns about the down year Lee at 33 is having, and am concerned about what I have in him going forward, I might not hesitate to dump the salary, rather than risk him gettng a career threatening injury the last 2 months of the season.

  78. Chip August 2nd, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2012 at 3:49 pm

    If the Phillies want to trade Lee then he has to waive his NTC. If a team claims him on waivers and the Phillies let him go without compensation then it is not a trade, therefor a NTC doesn’t apply.
    ———————————-
    Chip-

    Lee only knows he’s been put on waivers now thru the media. I’m not an attorney, but he has a NTC clause to 21 teams and if the Phillies “dump” him on one of those 21, he should be able to refuse a trade to any one of those 21 teams, and probably can refuse to report.
    —————-

    He can only refuse to report for a minor league assignment. If he refuses to report to a major league team that claims him on waivers then that team will put him on the restricted list and he stops getting paid.

    My guess would be that (in the highly unlikely event this happens) he would report, play out the year and if he’s in a place he doesn’t want to be he would ask his agent to talk to the team about trading him in the offseason.

    Again, being claimed off waivers and being traded are two very different things.

  79. blake August 2nd, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    “To be honest, if I owned the Yankees I wouldn’t claim Lee either. He’s a good pitcher but not worth anywhere near that contract. If they got stuck with him it would seriously alter future plans (as we suspect they are approximately)”

    Again I really dont think theyd dump him…..but even if they did you could use him this year and next and then try to move him yourself before 2014…….itd be risky though yea……

  80. mate August 2nd, 2012 at 3:55 pm

    86w183 August 2nd, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    And they don’t have many guys who can play SS

    “Hal the skinflint” spends more money than any owner of any sport on earth
    ——————————————————————————–

    FC Barcelona says hello!

  81. blake August 2nd, 2012 at 3:57 pm

    If I’m Amaro and have any concerns about the down year Lee at 33 is having, and am concerned about what I have in him going forward, I might not hesitate to dump the salary, rather than risk him gettng a career threatening injury the last 2 months of the season.”

    Yea but id try really hard to trade him first…..

  82. Chip August 2nd, 2012 at 3:58 pm

    blake August 2nd, 2012 at 3:51 pm

    “If I’m Cliff Lee & all I’m hearing is the Phillies are trying to dump me I’m feeling pretty stupid right about now. ”

    Seriously ……he chose to come there after they traded hin to Seattle…..gave them a discount….and now less than 2 years later they are trying to dump him.and make hin move his family again……Id be pissed.
    ——————-

    Amaro made some bad choices and some good choices that haven’t panned out. Now he’s stuck with two aging superstars in Utley and Howard, three very expensive pitchers and a barren farm system.

    The Halladay deal was smart, but it hasn’t delivered a championship. Pairing Halladay with Lee was smart but it hasn’t provided a championship. Signing Pap and Howard to the huge deals he did weren’t smart. If it hadn’t been for the injuries and awful start they got off to this year the window still would be closing on that team in another year or two.

  83. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2012 at 3:58 pm

    Correct 7 players per team can be put on waivers at one time?
    Most all of the players are put on waivers and have no idea when they are placed on them, because they have been called back or the time has passed..

    In Lee’s case, yes I’d be upset if Amaro before the TD didn’t come to me and say we’re fielding offers for you, rather than hear rumors from Olney or Heyman.

  84. Chip August 2nd, 2012 at 4:00 pm

    blake August 2nd, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    “To be honest, if I owned the Yankees I wouldn’t claim Lee either. He’s a good pitcher but not worth anywhere near that contract. If they got stuck with him it would seriously alter future plans (as we suspect they are approximately)”

    Again I really dont think theyd dump him…..but even if they did you could use him this year and next and then try to move him yourself before 2014…….itd be risky though yea……
    ——————

    I mean if the Yankees put in a claim just to prevent them from being able to work out a deal with the Rangers and Amaro says “here ya go” (much like what happened with Jose Canseco years ago) would I be annoyed? No. Would it be great news for the budgetary future of the team? No.

  85. blake August 2nd, 2012 at 4:04 pm

    I mean if the Yankees put in a claim just to prevent them from being able to work out a deal with the Rangers and Amaro says “here ya go” (much like what happened with Jose Canseco years ago) would I be annoyed? No. Would it be great news for the budgetary future of the team? No.”

    I hate the budget…..so claim hin to block Texas and if Amaro says here ya go I would like to watch steam come out of Hals ears and watch him scramble to grab the TI-83 and start number crunching.

  86. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2012 at 4:05 pm

    Chip-

    I find that hard to believe that you can “dump” a players contract on another team when they are claimed if they have a NT clause including that team. You are still trading the contract and the team he’s traded to has to abide by its clauses, unless they agree to amend the contract.

    I’m sorry. I need a second opinion!! :)

  87. Jerkface August 2nd, 2012 at 4:05 pm

    I think Chip is right regarding Waivers. If the team lets the contract go without compensation or if the player is placed on irrevocable trade waivers I think the no-trade or 10/5 rights would not apply. But I’m not sure!

  88. kd August 2nd, 2012 at 4:06 pm

    one way to look at it- trading for cliff lee means robbie cano leaves the team. can’t have both and stay under 189

  89. Chambliss August 2nd, 2012 at 4:06 pm

    I have heard and read that many players, even star players, get put on waivers all the time, sometimes just to gauge interest that other teams might have.

    And I agree that George would claim him.

    If I recall correctly, the Yankees claimed Canseco several years ago, thinking that he would be pulled back. He wasn’t, and the Yankees ended up with him and his contract.

  90. Jerkface August 2nd, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    I’ve looked through the CBA and the actual Major League Rules document which is like 300 pages that details everything about waivers and they don’t really discuss the scenario of a no trade clause.

  91. Chip August 2nd, 2012 at 4:09 pm

    Jerkface August 2nd, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    I’ve looked through the CBA and the actual Major League Rules document which is like 300 pages that details everything about waivers and they don’t really discuss the scenario of a no trade clause.
    —————-

    Most likely because being waived is not being traded. Someone with a Twitter account shoot a question off to one of the baseball guys – they’ll probably know the answer.

  92. blake August 2nd, 2012 at 4:10 pm

    Jim Duquette said today on the radio that the no trades and 10/5 rights still apply with waiver deals……however Im not sure if they do if they team just lets the player go…..cause thats not really a trade.

  93. CompassRosy August 2nd, 2012 at 4:10 pm

    JIM BOWDEN ?@JimBowdenESPNxm
    When reports start coming out that players were put on Aug waivers just chill most clubs put most players on waivers&if claimed pull em back

  94. Chambliss August 2nd, 2012 at 4:13 pm

    There is a difference between (i) a player getting claimed off waivers who is subsequently traded to the team who claimed him, and (ii) a player who is claimed and is let go. In the latter situation, the NTC does not apply because it is not a trade.

  95. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2012 at 4:14 pm

    JF-

    You are one quick speed reader.

    The terms of a contract should usurp all.

    Now I need a 3rd opinion, but JF thanks for trying. :)

  96. Jerkface August 2nd, 2012 at 4:16 pm

    Actually, I’m swinging back around. The no trade clause stands.

  97. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2012 at 4:18 pm

    “Chris” Chambliss-

    Show me the Carfax!! :)

  98. Nick in SF August 2nd, 2012 at 4:18 pm

    “Nick- So it was you who gave Joba those free passes to the trampoline center for him and his little boy!”

    Don’t be silly. I”m talking about his elbow injury. The day of the last game in Oakland in June 2011, CC threw out the first pitch at the field he donated to the North Vallejo Little League — Joba was there too to be a good buddy/teammate.

    I had CC sign my game ticket, then asked Joba to sign it too. The difference is, CC had a big marker for autographs, since he was the main attraction and his foundation was involved. Joba had nothing, so I gave him my little Fisher Space Pen to use.

    I’m afraid it put extra strain on his elbow to use the little pen. He didn’t throw another pitch for the Yankees until yesterday. Shortly after his diagnosis, I called Dr. Andrews to explain what happened and to ask if using the little pen could have contributed to Joba’s injury. The doctor said that signing an autograph with a little pen rather than a team-sanctioned marker was reckless and dangerous and probably ruined Joba’s season. When he told me he’s need to take down my name for legal reasons, I hung up. :oops:

    And now you know the rest of the story.

  99. Jerkface August 2nd, 2012 at 4:18 pm

    And if a player doesn’t want to be claimed he can terminate his own contract and become a free agent!

  100. EA August 2nd, 2012 at 4:18 pm

    What if he is a 10-5 guy?

  101. Jerkface August 2nd, 2012 at 4:20 pm

    10-5 is as good as a full no trade

  102. bruceb August 2nd, 2012 at 4:20 pm

    Wow. Giants are imploding…even with the arrival of Pence. Zito getting lit up by the Mets.

  103. Chip August 2nd, 2012 at 4:21 pm

    Maybe Chad can get some info on this for us.

  104. Chip August 2nd, 2012 at 4:22 pm

    Jerkface August 2nd, 2012 at 4:18 pm

    And if a player doesn’t want to be claimed he can terminate his own contract and become a free agent!
    —————–

    That’s interesting – declare yourself a FA in the middle of the season.

    I know that if you’re in the middle of a long term contract and you’re traded you can terminate the contract in the first offseason after the trade (if the deal happens in season).

  105. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2012 at 4:28 pm

    Nick-

    I’m glad I stuck around to get your answer on how you were possibly involved in Joba’s ulnar collateral ligament injury. I’m laughing so hard that I think I just pulled an oblique! Do you want me to call James Andrews to corroborate your story? :)

  106. GregD August 2nd, 2012 at 4:29 pm

    Nick in SF August 2nd, 2012 at 4:18 pm

    now we know who to blame…….are you responsible for the Montero trade too?

  107. Hassey August 2nd, 2012 at 4:30 pm

    anyone else’s eyes watering from all this waiver talk?

  108. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2012 at 4:32 pm

    I know that if you’re in the middle of a long term contract and you’re traded you can terminate the contract in the first offseason after the trade (if the deal happens in season).
    —————————————-

    Chip-

    I thought you can demand the team to trade you in the first offseason.

    Here we go again.

    Is there a Pennsylvania contracts attorney on the blog who can accurately answer our questions about Cliff Lee? :)

  109. GregD August 2nd, 2012 at 4:33 pm

    the waiver talk is just confusing……..Cliff Lee is untradeable unless the Phillies eat some salary

  110. Nick in SF August 2nd, 2012 at 4:36 pm

    “Do you want me to call James Andrews to corroborate your story?”

    My attorney has advised me to disassociate myself from any theoretical conversations with Dr. Andrews. I’ve only been to Birmingham a few times, never to his office.

    ” ….are you responsible for the Montero trade too?”

    No, but some folks on here suspect I drove him to the airport and deliberately dropped him off at tbe wrong terminal just for kicks.

  111. blake August 2nd, 2012 at 4:37 pm

    I dont think Cliff Lee would want to terminate his contract.

    Im still thinking that the team would have to get a player’s permission before sending them to a team on their no trade…..even if no compensation is involved.

  112. Jerkface August 2nd, 2012 at 4:39 pm

    A no trade clause is just the common term for what would be legalese. For example when a player is ‘traded’ it means he is actually assigned to another club, the assignor club to the assignee club and the same applies to a player claimed by Waivers. Thus its possibly the language of a no trade clause could block it due to it being in legalese.

  113. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2012 at 4:45 pm

    Finally we have an answer and we can move on to the New Post——————->

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