Yankees postgame: What’s up with CC?
Posted by: Brian Heyman - Posted in Misc on Sep 15, 2012 
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The Yankees need their ace to pitch like an ace right now, but it isn’t happening. CC Sabathia’s velocity was a bit better, but he still turned over a lead for the fifth straight start and didn’t win for the fourth straight start. He has dropped three decisions in a row for the first time as a Yankee.
“It’s tough because we’re in a race and I’m struggling,” Sabathia said. “… It’s definitely been frustrating.”
This time, he gave up four runs and six hits over 6 2/3 and fell to 13-6. David Price just outpitched him in Tampa Bay’s 6-4 victory.
Sabathia says his arm feels good. But the game got away from him when his command departed in the fifth. His 1-0 lead turned into a 3-2 deficit.
“Just not making pitches,” Sabathia said.
The Yankees were predictably supportive.
“I still believe in CC,” Joe Girardi said. “He’s done so many special things. I know his heart.”
“You definitely want CC on the mound,” Curtis Granderson said. “CC is one of the best guys out there.”
“CC pitched well,” Derek Jeter said. “I’m sure he didn’t pitch as good as he would’ve liked to, but he still kept us in the game.”
Sabathia knows he’s better than this. He thinks he may be looking to strike people out too much.
“Today should’ve been a day when I went out and dominated,” Sabathia said.
He’s happy that Ivan Nova will be back later today and that Andy Pettitte will return to start on Tuesday.
“Hopefully they can help us out, because I haven’t been,” Sabathia said.
Meanwhile, it was another milestone night for both Jeter and Alex Rodriguez.
Jeter passed Willie Mays and took sole possession of 10th on the all-time hits lists. The Captain had two hits, giving him 3,285. He said passing Mays was “pretty special.”
A-Rod passed Lou Gehrig on the all-time list for runs scored thanks to his homer. Rodriguez now has sole possession of ninth with 1,889. He also tied Zack Wheat for 37th on the all-time hits list at 2,884. Rodriguez is batting .279 with three homers and eight RBI in 11 games since coming off the DL. He’s now 13 homers behind Mays for fourth on the homers list after belting No. 647.
The Yankees are now 6-9 in their last 15 games. They are 3 for 40 with runners in scoring position over the last four games, leaving 36 on base. They have blown leads in six of their last seven defeats and 10 of their last 14 defeats. Lot of negatives here. But there are still 18 games to go.
A’s 3 O’s 2, two out man on first in the ninelh. Let’s go A’s!
I’m trying to digest whether I need to buy A’s Wild Card/ALDS tickets on Monday morning in case the Yanks come to town.
A’s win by one. When A’s swept the Yanks in Oakland, they won all of the games by one run.
Perhaps this is the beginning of a Yankee-esque deja vu west coast swing for the O’s!
Well, the night is better by inches seeing the O’s lost also.
We’ll get ‘em today. Praying the recovery from inflammation gets Nova back to his really good self.
Night.
“‘em” being the Rays, not the O’s.
faux-ace couldn’t extend red hot yankees’ 2-game win streak. it happens. he only makes $26M to dominate the twins or mariners in may. no one expects a real ace to carry a team in a division race in september anyway
he is either injured and not telling the yankees or he is simply a no. 3 sp right now. Either way he is a problem going forward if he is not going to get his act together.
Well said, WMD
BTW, during those hours between our loss and Baltimore’s loss, we were tied… for the second wild card…
CC isn’t dominating and I question whether he can be dominating any more this season.
When Petit started pitching in May, all the pitchers stepped up their game. Don’t know why but it would be nice to see that happen again.
Rooting for the A’s to beat the O’s so that NY retains a SHARE of 1st place in mid-September tells you all you want to know about how exciting the hot stove is going to be this off season.
“Just not making pitches.”. We’ve heard that one before – a number of times, in fact.
18 more opportunities to screw up the season. It’s damn hard to watch.
verlander’s line tonight when the tigers absolutely needed him to keep pace with chicago- 7 ip, 6 hits, 0 runs. but then again he’s an ace.
Im really losing my faith in this team but worse than that is losing my passion. I cant stand half the team i dont even like them nor wanba watch them play. I love me my pinstripes but this team has so many nobody and out for themselves HR or bust players its dreadfully frustrating and boring as heck to watch them disapoint night after night. Aside from arod and jeter with ichiro from time to time this team stinks! Cano is just vladmir guerro jr with no clutch! Also i dont miss Tex a bit, he even makes the game less frustrating to watch since we dont have to see another alleged superstar fail night after night. Lastly with all my frustrations just vented, Girardi at the helm makes in practically unbearable to watch! He stands there hopeless night after night without a single contribution to give us a chance to win.. And for sure not lead and manage his players. Get him outta hear asap!
Just because there are certain people who try to point out nearly every bad Yu Darvish outing this season, I feel compelled to mention that he went over 200 K’s tonight. Also for the season, he has allowed only 143 hits in 176.2 IP. That’s roughly 7.3 hits per 9 innings. The ERA is still a bit high, 4.02, but that is mainly because of all the walks which I am confident he will improve on as time goes on.
So, the stuff is playing JUST fine, and he has stayed healthy so far. 205 K’s, 7.3 H/9, and he will probably just get better as time goes on and he adjusts to the MLB and the United States more. When you factor in his marketability, he will end up being worth every penny of that contract.
Kev, true! However, the richest team in MLB doesnt spend anymore, not with Hal Spreadsheet Steinbrenner. We have the awesome .230′ish Tex (still cant believe his decline) who cant clutch and hit .170 is PS! The awesome Russell knowitall Martin who we were gonna sign for 3yrs LOL. No Darvish,Chapin, Matt Holliday — who mind you we sure couldve used the last few years with his power and hit for clutch and avg– who else have we passed on?
“He’s happy that Ivan Nova will be back later today and that Andy Pettitte will return to start on Tuesday.
“Hopefully they can help us out, because I haven’t been,” Sabathia said.”
Us too !
Our season is gonna depend on it.
For those who have been complaining about looking forward.
With the way this team has been playing how could you not.
The present yields little satisfaction.
Hard to keep a ship afloat with leaks everywhere.
IMO OS change is definitely called for.
Hike day today.
Maybe offseason changes should start at top. Get a new GM and give Cashman another title and position in organization. If he balks let him walk.
Well thanks to the As we are still holding on to a share of first by our finger nails.
Its hard to sometimes not consider that Darvish, Cespedes, and Montero could be on this roster right now had the Yanks been a little more aggressive and had a little more foresight…..sure the 2012 team.would have cost more…..they would also have a lot better and maybe they wouldnt have needed to spend more this offseason as theyve already have two young bats in the lineup and a Swisher replacement in Cespedes
Blake-
But…But….But.
Yankee scouts said Cespedes had a long swing and would K too much.
Not worth the money.
Don’t forget missed opportunities on Haren, and Chapman.
How do you pass on a power lefty arm like Aroldis ?
Good morning-
I’m kidding, but wasn’t there a rumor out there that the Dodgers were willing to take on the contracts of, was it Sabathia and ARod or Tex?
Didn’t see the last two innings. When the bullpen again failed to contain the game I was watching the Braves-Nationals.
Did Nunez make an error on a routine play, because his other plays showed off his great arm and range?
Cespdeds and Darvish would have added 19 millionish to the current 2012 payroll in AAV dollars…..but when you consider that having them + Montero that they may not have had to do really anything else this winter or in the near future then not pulling the trigger there may end up costing them more money in the long run……
Of course this is all with hindsight knowledge…..but they were always going to need more offense going forward….I’m not sure where they thought it was going to come from or where they think it’s going to come from now unless they trade even more players for Justin Upton or somebody else…..or unless they are going to sign Josh Hamilton….and then you’ve spent more money for an older player than you would have on both Cespedes and Darvish combine…..
Gonna be out most of the day…..hope the Yanks can find victory ….go Nova!
Had the Yankees picked up Marco Scutaro and Reed Johnson they actually might have had two bats that could sustain a rally or at the very least get a hit when it counts. Both are free agents.
MTU,
they could have had this:
Jeter
Swisher
Cano
Arod
Tex
Cespedes
Granderson
Montero
Martin
Sabathia
Kuroda
Darvish
Hughes
Nova
Yes the 2012 team would have been expensive….but they still could have cleared money by 2014 and then had a lot more young offense going forward…..anyway…..as it stands they have large holes and and it’s tough to see how they will fill them in the short term.
MLBTRs-
Few trade deadline acquisitions have had as much impact as Marco Scutaro, who has hit .341/.361/.447 in 44 games for the Giants after being acquired from the Rockies for prospect Charlie Culberson. He’s continued to show off his trademark versatility by filling in at third base while Pablo Sandoval was hurt before taking over second full-time.
Scutaro, 36, owns a .293/.336/.388 overall batting line this season between Colorado and San Francisco. He hit .299/.358/.423 in 445 plate appearances for the Red Sox a year ago, before they exercised his $6MM option and traded him to the Rockies. Other than that versatility, Scutaro’s calling card is his ability to make contact and get on-base. He’s struck out in just 7.8% of his plate appearances this year, the second lowest mark in baseball. His career 8.7% walk rate is rock solid as well.
MTU-
Had the Yankees signed Darvish, unlikely that Kuroda is signed, Garcia would be #5 or Pettitte
“Had the Yankees signed Darvish, unlikely that Kuroda is signed, Garcia would be #5 or Pettitte”
Sure….but they coukd have signed both ….they are the Yankees ….or at least they used to be.
Even if they didnt sign Kuroda…….
Darvish+Cespedes+Montero > kuroda+ Pineda. Both short and long term.
Let’s talk about the present.
The Yankees will likely be facing more lefties thru Sunday next weekend.
Moore
Romero
Cecil
Happ
Laffey
Milone
Blackley
Brett Anderson is back
They need to perform. Unfortunately they are underperforming in every aspect of the game.
If they are the wild card-it could be a trip to Oakland or Tampa to play where they haven’s done well.
If they win the division it could be off to Chicago or Detroit to face Sale or Verlander, both involved in shutouts last night.
To be fair, Cespedes is exceeding expectations. I’m not sure how many teams thought he would be this good out of the box.
Darvish on the other hand, is pretty much as billed, or at least what the Yankees expected. He’s really hot as of late, so he could still justify his pricetag, but it’s been a mixed to good season for him.
It’s been a strange season for Sabathia. He hasn’t really clicked much. Is it just a lazy theory, or could the weight loss be affecting him?
Trader,
That means they better hope Arod gets hot and Jeter continues to hit….and it means they need Tex back ASAP. They miss him badly against LHP.
blake September 15th, 2012 at 7:48 am
Trader,
That means they better hope Arod gets hot and Jeter continues to hit….and it means they need Tex back ASAP. They miss him badly against LHP.
————-
Some guy called Robinson coming through would be nice too.
One thing is for certain.
This team needs a serious injection of youth.
Lose some of the Geritol crowd.
I’ll catch you guys later.
Have a good one.
“To be fair, Cespedes is exceeding expectations. I’m not sure how many teams thought he would be this good out of the box.”
True….but I think my point was they avoided money risk for trade risk…..Pineda wasnt a sure thing and they were also assuming a lot of risk in theblineup by trading their only prospect who was ready to help.
We can say….well we didnt know Pineda would get hurt and we didnt know the offense would struggle…..but therr were warning signs of both last year that went ignored
MTU,
In the future it’s definitely called for. The Yankees have to make some tweaks in the off season.
If this teams loses, however, it’s on the players – not Cashman. We’ve got the pieces, they just have to do their jobs.
Hopefully Andy is Mr. Right and Tex comes back and hits.
Blake-
Even if they do start hitting, can the starters hold a lead, can the bullpen?
Missed Chamberlain last night. Did he look OK?
Blake,
Yeah, they picked one risk over another and got bitten. In all fairness both risks, especially monetary risk, is judged throughout the life of the contract.
No way does the Pineda situation look good right now, but the whole point with staying away from Cespedes/Darvish is the dollars over the years. Now, that would also involve the team–spending dollars wisely–in the future.
Pettitte will be able to get in 4 starts. However he’s on a pitch limit in his 1st one and maybe the 2nd?
Nova today-pitch limit? Relieved by Phelps. If Shields is locating his CU, that will be a very tough matchup for the Yankee hitters, after facing Price last night and the heat he was throwing.
What is the plan for Phelps? I wouldn’t just hand Nova his spot yet…
No way does the Pineda situation look good right now.
———————————
Yeah, I’ll say. Obviously the pitcher did not mature any. Driving drunk at 2:30 in the morning on the wrong side of a highway in Tampa. Lucky that he didn’t kill anyone.
100 million for a #3 starter. That’s crazy talk. And he could follow the same pattern as rookies who sneak past scouting reports and get bombed after their first year. DiceK. I don’t think Darvish would have helped this team and feel Kuroda was clearly the right call. Kuroda had performed well in MLB while Darvish was untested at this level. Darvish is a long-term commitment while Kuroda was just a 1 year deal, much lower risk.
Cespedes is a different story. Yankees scouts failed on that one. Instead we’ll end up with BJ Upton in CF or LF. Maybe they considered BJ Upton a safer investment at a similar price. He has hit at this level whereas Cespedes was largely an unknown. Who knows? I feel better if they sign BJ Upton but still prefer Cespedes.
Jesus Montero has a .703 OPS, K’s more than he BB’s and runs like he’s wearing Nike cinderblocks. He also has no power. Jeter has about as much power. Martin’s OPS is right near Montero’s but Martin can catch.
So quit crying.
“Missed Chamberlain last night. Did he look OK?”
Yes….I thought his stuff looked the best its looked all year…..throufh some nasty sliders…..through too many sliders though and Nunie’s E cost him the run.
Kev-
My guess is that Phelps is now the long man down the stretch and that these are the starters-CC, Kuroda, Pettitte, Hughes and Nova.
Looks like the Yankees don’t plan to put Nova in the pen, where he never performed before.
If the Yankees make the postseason, in the ALDS they will need 4 starters because of the new format and only one travel day.
What happens if they are the wild card?
“No way does the Pineda situation look good right now, but the whole point with staying away from Cespedes/Darvish is the dollars over the years.”
They may wind up spending more now in the future…..Darvish is only 9 million towards the luxury tax and Cespedes is 10.
Look at this possible scenario.
The Yankees and A’s are the two wild cards, with the A’s having a better record and hosting the Yankees who have to finish up a 3 game series in NY vs Boston, fly to the west coast to face the A’s who finished their season at home.
CC is your starter vs any one of their rookies.
If the Yankees win they get to host the 1st two in NY most likely vs Texas.
Not a good scene for an aging team.
What happens if they are the wild card?
————
There’s always Betances?
If they miss the playoffs I wonder if when the winter meetings arrive we see the “plan-B, the prices are too high, we’re happy with our team, we believe in this team,” Mr. Cool Cashman. It would seem really awkward to fans. And the BS bluffing like “I’m prepared to go into the year with Bubba Crosby in CF. There are too many holes to fill for such posturing.
Cashman won’t be fired so it comes down to the question of how he responds. After 2008, he was given a treasure chest for CC, Tex and Burnett. This time he has money constraints so he will have to be more aggressive you would think.
I think I’ll flip out if the winter meetings pass and all Cashman can muster is “Nothing is close.”
Yu Darvish has the 4th highest fWAR among pitchers in the AL.
“100 million for a #3 starter”
Darvish isnt pitching like a 3 at all…..his stuff is nasty….200Ks…
I’d rather have Gio Gonzalez.
They may wind up spending more now in the future…..Darvish is only 9 million towards the luxury tax and Cespedes is 10.
———————————————
As much as we hope the Yankees spend big to field a WS bound team next year, it doesn’t look that it’s in the cards.
I’m afraid that you’ll see the Yankees have interest in lower cost options for free agents like Cody Ross, Reed Johnson, Marco Scutaro, Jeff Keppinger, Torii Hunter for bench and Starting roles. Kuroda might either go back to Japan or be offered more to play in LA.
I think the Yanks are ultimately going to have to do one of three things in the near future now.
1) forget the budget and spend to fix their holes
2) trade their way out by dealing off the big league roster and prospects for impact players.
3) accept taking a step back and rebuilding a bit.
I’d rather have Gio Gonzalez.
—————————
Wow ,wouldn’t we!! Mr NL Cy Young!
Once upon a time Joel Sherman reported the Yankees were willing to “pay big” for Gio Gonzalez. Apparently not.
“I’d rather have Gio Gonzalez.”
Well if they were going to trade Montero then thats who they should have targeted……but Beane wanted a lot more than Montero according to reports.
If the Yankees were “in on” Gio then they weren’t in it enough because they weren’t in it to win it obviously.
Passing on Gio is a bigger mistake than Cespedes. The upcoming class of FA pitchers is pretty dry whereas there are a couple outfielders worth pursuing.
You’re not going to find a Gio Gonzalez out there. BJ Upton, Melky Cabrera, those guys are good options for an OF in need of retooling.
So the Yankees did a poor job hedging their bets when it comes to pitching. It remains to be seen if they can cover their mistake in the OF of not signing Cespedes.
Beane chose Cespedes and Reddick over Jesus Montero.
Nothing more to say.
“The upcoming class of FA pitchers is pretty dry whereas there are a couple outfielders worth pursuing.”
Not unless youll pay for Hamilton…..who is older and injury prone. The Yanks need to get younger……they had a chance this winter to add a 22 year old with big opo power and a 26 old Cuban with 80 power…….they chose instead to add Raul and Jonesy.
I think the Yanks are ultimately going to have to do one of three things in the near future now.
1) forget the budget and spend to fix their holes
2) trade their way out by dealing off the big league roster and prospects for impact players.
3) accept taking a step back and rebuilding a bit.
————————————–
#1-If Swisher doesn’t take the qualifying offer, and Kuroda/Pettitte re-up, plus Sori doesn’t opt out, the Yankees might feel all they need are some role players.
Option 1- chance 90%
That’s my 2 cents.
Agree to disagree!
“Beane chose Cespedes and Reddick over Jesus Montero.”
No….he chose the big package the Nats offered over whatever Cashman offered….which may have been nothig at all.
No…he remade the offense on Cespedes and Reddick instead of Montero AND he cashed in on Gio Gonzalez on top of that.
Trader,
Thats what theyll do…..I was talking about the 3 options that have a direction
Wow it didn’t post my entire comment Blake-
Option #1 was supposed t be 90%
“No…he remade the offense on Cespedes and Reddick instead of Montero AND he cashed in on Gio Gonzalez on top of that.”
He was probbaly doing both either way…..he got Alonso then signed Cespedes…..had he got Montrro instead he still probably signs Cespedes and deals for Reddick.
Blake- Not posting it correctly
Try again Option one less than one percent!
Instead of “paying big” for Chase Headley, Cashman will sign Michael Young or Jeff Keppinger.
The Gio deal was done before they signed Cespedes Im pretty sure.
No Blake, he had plenty of better options on offense so he did not need to overrate Montero the way the Mariners did. M’s were desperate for offense. A’s were desperate too but Beane identify better options. hands down.
OK Blake it finally got Option One correct.
Option two I put at fifty percent-Best starting position player to bring in talent is Cano if the opposing team wants to absorb a Boras fueled big contract.
Now Option three I put at greater than ninety percent-
Likely team will fill in with short term low cost free agents, awaiting the arrival of some of the Baby Bombers.
Just my two cents.
Agree to disagree!
Brett,
You dont even know if Cashman offered him Montero……
With CC struggling and losing velocity, who wouldn’t want the young lefty ace Gio Gonzalez on this team right now to step up in his place now and potentially in the future? Plenty of fans here were dubbing Gio a #3 or #4 starter. It’s OK to change your tune guys instead of pine for Yu Darvish like you did all offseason.
Bret-
I don’t believe Michael Young is a FA
Beane was going to trade Cahill, Gio, and Bailey.
He got Parker for Cahill…..he got Reddick for Bailey……and he got a big package from the Nats for Gio.
Then he signed Cespedes after all that…..he just maximized what he could get…..
Well according to Sherman’s scoop the Yankees were willing to “pay big” for Gio. So that means Cashman refused to offer their top trade chip? Can’t imagine that. Obviously Cashman was in the market for a pitcher. So you mean to tell me he targeted a risk like Pineda but completely ignored Gonzalez, never bothering to offer his top prospect?
If you’re going to point out mistakes you should identify the real ones.
Gio Gonzale, in hindsight would have been perfect as a lefty pitching half his games in YS-given up a paltry 8 homeruns.
Id still rather have Darvish and Monteto than Gio alone…..Darvish will be cheaper soon and Monteto is still going to hit….I know a lot of folks have written him off at age 22……
Targets are targets Blake regardless of the order. You can shuffle the deck any way you wish, it holds the same set of cards.
Bret,
I think Cashman probably thought he could get Pineda cheaper (true) and he likely bought into all the saber talk about Gio’s walk rate…..thats my guess.
You also can’t base projects on what you expect to happen or want to happen. You have to look at precedents. Darvish over Gio? Based on what statistical precedent viewed in real-time?
edit: base projections.
The one report I remember said that Beane asked for.Montero, Banuelos, and I think Nova for Gio. Cashman thought Pineda for Montero only was cheaper.
Bret,
Have you watch Yu pitch lately?
You also can’t base projects on what you expect to happen or want to happen. You have to look at precedents. Darvish over Gio? Based on what statistical precedent viewed in real-time?
————-
What ”statistical precedent” showed that Cespedes would out hit Swisher?
Darvish is gonna wind up with 16 or 17 wins….200+ ks and a sub 4 era in his first season here…….that aint bad. Hed be the Yanks best pitcher right now
It was Montero, Banuelos, Mason Williams or bust. Beane wouldn’t do a deal centered on Montero (smartly) but the Mariners did.
And now Cashman can’t go back and add a Gio Gonzalez. Lefty aces don’t grow on trees. Again, Gio was slammed as a #3 or #4 by some fans here. It’s alright. Just change your minds guys.
Here’s a possible low cost Option #3
C-Romine, Cervelli
1B-Tex
2B-Cano-elects to test FA
SS-Jeter
3B-Keppinger and Chavez
RF-Hunter
CF-Granderson-traded during season
LF Gardner
4th OF-Reed Johnson
DH-ARod
SP-CC, Pettitte, Hughes, Nova, Phelps
Bullpen-Mo, DRob, Joba, Aardsma, Logan, Montgomery
Then of course you also have to consider that had thr Yanks signed Yu it hurts Texas and maybe they eould have had to trade Profar for a pitcher instead of just using money.
I see… we’re having a rough time changing our minds this morning. Have a nice day.
Can we please change the subject away from the past and focus on the ghosts of Yankee present and future?
You folks don’t understand. The Yankees had good reason not to get involved in Cespedes, Darvish, Soler, Haren, Chapman and the rest. They cost significant money this team will not spend now or in the future.
Yes, you can expect Cashman to blame the record on injuries and to be aghast at the high prices. This is the same script we have been hearing. Translation is “we are lowering payroll by 20% and won’t spend on players”.
It was Montero, Banuelos, Mason Williams or bust. Beane wouldn’t do a deal centered on Montero (smartly) but the Mariners did.”
Why woukd he trade Gio for 1 good prospect when the Nats were offering 4?
How about Jerry Meals?
Last week he calls Tex out at 1st probably because he didn’t want the game to go extras. Remember he made one of the worst calls at home plate in an 18 inning game.
Last night he prevented a double and a possible run, in his return from being recalled for the 1st botched play.
YT,
I agree those are the Yankee options, but if they rebuild, it won’t be a bit. They have a two year,optimistically, gap in any real productivity from the minor leagues.
Finally a New Post———————–>
A change of subject.
Has anyone checked Hunter’s stats this year? He won’t be cheap, and that eliminates him.
Yankee scouts said Cespedes had a long swing and would K too much.
///
Is that what they said? Well I’ll be. Pretty much describes the current lineup, eh?