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Cashman: “This doesn’t shatter my beliefs”

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Oct 18, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Yesterday, Brian Cashman was asked whether the Yankees postseason struggles have left his second guessing his lineup building philosophy. This is what he said:

“No. I mean, I believe in the philosophy I was taught by Gene Michael. We are still executing the Gene Michael playbook, which is predominantly left-handed hitters that take walks. They are selective. They’re typically big, hairy monsters — as I describe them — that hit the ball over the fence, hit doubles, singles, can hit home runs. They are very selective.

“What you are seeing right now is not a reflection of that. These guys are better than this, and you’ve seen it and we’ve seen it. It is just a very poor short sample. We have a lot of guys that got cold at the wrong time and it looks bad, but they’re not. This is not a reflection of who they are, but it externally is a reflection of what we are living with right now, and so we’re trying to do everything we can to get it going.

“But, no, this doesn’t shatter my beliefs in what I have been taught and what I have learned from some of the best in the business, because I know it works. I have lived through it. I have rings to show it. I have rings I’ve benefitted from. I’ve been part of championship caliber runs, teams that are typically in the top end of the offensive side.

“What we are seeing is not what this offense is capable of and what some of these individuals players are. They are performing at a far worse level than what you have seen. And just conversely our pitching has been tremendous. We are getting the best pitching we have seen from this staff all season. So as great as our pitching has really just exceeded expectations, and our offense has done quite the opposite, and that’s what we’re dealing with right now.”

 
 

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216 Responses to “Cashman: “This doesn’t shatter my beliefs””

  1. Mike in Harrisburg October 18th, 2012 at 11:14 am

    “I believe in the philosophy I was taught by Gene Michael. We are still executing the Gene Michael playbook, which is predominantly left-handed hitters that take walks. They are selective. They’re typically big, hairy monsters — as I describe them — that hit the ball over the fence, hit doubles, singles, can hit home runs. They are very selective.”

    There you have it.

  2. Chip October 18th, 2012 at 11:15 am

    Patrick October 18th, 2012 at 11:02 am

    I don’t think Williams, Austin or Sanchez will be ready for 2014. Williams and Sanchez haven’t played above high-A and Austin has only played a handful of games in AA. I think Williams and Sanchez start the year in Tampa and mid year if they perform well get promoted to AA. Austin, keep in AA for the entire season. So that leaves them all in AA after 2013 meaning a 2014 promotion is pretty aggressive.

    Joseph might be an option for the majors next year. Adams I’d like to see in AAA, he might be ready mid-season for the majors if needed. Romine needs to stay in AAA, he didn’t play much in 2012.

    ———————–

    I think they’ll give Adams a look in Spring Training at 3b – if he shows enough they may leave Alex at DH assuming he’s on the team.

    I don’t know where CoJo factors into this team – he doesn’t have the arm for a corner spot and barring a trade, 2b is pretty set.

    Romine I think will also be given a long look behind the plate if he’s healthy this spring. I think that they’ll bring back Martin, but not on such a high level deal that it would stand in the way of him being made part of a tandem behind the plate with Romine.

    I agree with you on the younger guys.

  3. Chip October 18th, 2012 at 11:16 am

    When you run that Cashman stuff through the BS Meter you get two things that should scare you:

    1. Don’t expect major changes for next year

    2. If there are major changes we like LH hitters with power so yeah we’ll be in on Josh Hamilton.

  4. ac1 October 18th, 2012 at 11:17 am

    I don’t think Williams, Austin or Sanchez will be ready for 2014. Williams and Sanchez haven’t played above high-A and Austin has only played a handful of games in AA. I think Williams and Sanchez start the year in Tampa and mid year if they perform well get promoted to AA. Austin, keep in AA for the entire season. So that leaves them all in AA after 2013 meaning a 2014 promotion is pretty aggressive.

    Joseph might be an option for the majors next year. Adams I’d like to see in AAA, he might be ready mid-season for the majors if needed. Romine needs to stay in AAA, he didn’t play much in 2012.

    ———————–

    This is my point: They need to be more aggressive with these guys. Maybe not Sanchez because catching can’t be rushed, but the OF prospects?

  5. DONNYBROOK October 18th, 2012 at 11:17 am

    Cashman ducking for cover behind Stick Michael is Weak. I see a lotta Cashman quotes around here, and do Not recall him mentioning\crediting Michael for anything. Now, that Cashman’s Master Plan is crashing to Earth, he attempts to use Michael assa shield. In short, Cashman has flat out Wimped out. Stick Michael’s Legend lives on, and the Yanks have the rings to prove it.

  6. tucker October 18th, 2012 at 11:19 am

    So if Montero had more hair, he would have kept him?

  7. Shame Spencer October 18th, 2012 at 11:19 am

    Ugh.. repost:

    ” I personally don’t see any percentage in trying to see if Alex can change things at this point. JMO. ”

    This seems a little defeatist, trisha, we might have at least 8 more games to play this season. I’d like to think one of the best players to ever play the game could get a shot to be a difference maker.

    Chavez certainly was a difference maker in game 3, I’ll give you that…

  8. Chip October 18th, 2012 at 11:20 am

    ac1 October 18th, 2012 at 11:17 am

    I don’t think Williams, Austin or Sanchez will be ready for 2014. Williams and Sanchez haven’t played above high-A and Austin has only played a handful of games in AA. I think Williams and Sanchez start the year in Tampa and mid year if they perform well get promoted to AA. Austin, keep in AA for the entire season. So that leaves them all in AA after 2013 meaning a 2014 promotion is pretty aggressive.

    Joseph might be an option for the majors next year. Adams I’d like to see in AAA, he might be ready mid-season for the majors if needed. Romine needs to stay in AAA, he didn’t play much in 2012.

    ———————–

    This is my point: They need to be more aggressive with these guys. Maybe not Sanchez because catching can’t be rushed, but the OF prospects?
    ———————-

    I think that this year they were very cautious with some prospects – there was no reason why Zoilo Almonte, Abe Almonte and David Adams should have been at AA by the end of last season (though the Almonte’s were hurt at different times). So I agree with you on that – but it should be performance based. Don’t move guys up just for the sake of moving them up.

  9. Chip October 18th, 2012 at 11:20 am

    tucker October 18th, 2012 at 11:19 am

    So if Montero had more hair, he would have kept him?
    ————–

    No, he wasn’t left handed.

  10. Shame Spencer October 18th, 2012 at 11:22 am

    You don’t wanna risk them struggling and losing confidence but the good players will find ways to adjust, so I agree with ac1 I’d like them to be somewhat more aggressive with promotions than they have in the past, especially with those OFers.

    We need to know what we have in those kids sooner rather than later. Let them play most of the year in AA (assuming they’re performing up to par) and give them a bump to AAA with a month left on the season to see how they do. Start them in 2014 in AAA.

  11. ac1 October 18th, 2012 at 11:22 am

    I think that this year they were very cautious with some prospects – there was no reason why Zoilo Almonte, Abe Almonte and David Adams should have been at AA by the end of last season (though the Almonte’s were hurt at different times). So I agree with you on that – but it should be performance based. Don’t move guys up just for the sake of moving them up.

    ___

    I agree but as soon as i felt they were adjusting to AA, the would have been moved to AAA.
    There is no reason why these guys have to sit in the minors until they are 25.

  12. Hassey October 18th, 2012 at 11:22 am

    someone should sign Cashman up for an episode of Intervention

    He is scaring me

  13. tucker October 18th, 2012 at 11:26 am

    Chip October 18th, 2012 at 11:20 am
    tucker October 18th, 2012 at 11:19 am

    So if Montero had more hair, he would have kept him?
    ————–

    No, he wasn’t left handed.

    Xxxxxxx

    Well, neither catcher on this roster is left handed, and Montero shows the ability to go oppo quite well. He must not be a hairy monster.

    As far as rookies,mI would like to see Mustelier get a shot next year. The guy can hit.

  14. trisha - true pinstriped blue October 18th, 2012 at 11:27 am

    “trisha, you quote Shame, no, not me ;) .”

    Shouldna known!!!

    :)

  15. Patrick October 18th, 2012 at 11:27 am

    Well it’s encouraging to hear that Cashman is still trying to build the team based on a high OBP. The disconnect is that the current iteration of the team hasn’t really been built that way. Martin, Granderson, Ibanez, Teixeira are not high OBP players. Tex used to be but he’s certainly not anymore.

    If I were to say 4 or 5 years ago that Robinson Cano of all people would lead the team in OBP I’d get laughed off the blog. The fact that he does is a credit to him but also an indicator that this team is not like former Yankee teams that prioritized getting on base.

    Yes it’s been a bad sample this postseason but really, the team hasn’t prioritized working the pitcher and taking walks all season long.

  16. trisha - true pinstriped blue October 18th, 2012 at 11:27 am

    Shame, about Alex, I meant for this particular game. I’m not talking about the rest of the postseason!

  17. Chip October 18th, 2012 at 11:28 am

    ac1 October 18th, 2012 at 11:22 am

    I think that this year they were very cautious with some prospects – there was no reason why Zoilo Almonte, Abe Almonte and David Adams should have been at AA by the end of last season (though the Almonte’s were hurt at different times). So I agree with you on that – but it should be performance based. Don’t move guys up just for the sake of moving them up.

    ___

    I agree but as soon as i felt they were adjusting to AA, the would have been moved to AAA.
    There is no reason why these guys have to sit in the minors until they are 25.
    ———————

    Well Adams was held back because of all the time he’s missed with injuries – so that’s understandable. And a couple of guys – CoJo and Zoilo for example – didn’t really come into their own until this past season.

  18. Chip October 18th, 2012 at 11:30 am

    Patrick October 18th, 2012 at 11:27 am

    Well it’s encouraging to hear that Cashman is still trying to build the team based on a high OBP. The disconnect is that the current iteration of the team hasn’t really been built that way. Martin, Granderson, Ibanez, Teixeira are not high OBP players. Tex used to be but he’s certainly not anymore.

    If I were to say 4 or 5 years ago that Robinson Cano of all people would lead the team in OBP I’d get laughed off the blog. The fact that he does is a credit to him but also an indicator that this team is not like former Yankee teams that prioritized getting on base.

    Yes it’s been a bad sample this postseason but really, the team hasn’t prioritized working the pitcher and taking walks all season long.
    ——————

    Agreed – Cashman’s design and the team he’s actually built are two totally different things. But the OBP thing does make me worry that he would bring Swisher back.

  19. Shame Spencer October 18th, 2012 at 11:32 am

    trisha – true pinstriped blue October 18th, 2012 at 11:27 am

    Shame, about Alex, I meant for this particular game. I’m not talking about the rest of the postseason!

    —————-

    Okay.

    So what do you think about them benching him for all the other games lol??

    I’m not trying to argue, I’m just saying that your opinion of how they’ve treated him and how they’ve treated other players in the past doesn’t jive to me. If Arod were playing and everyone were calling for his head, I think you’d be the first to tell us he’s been one of the best professional ball players his entire life and deserves the chance to come out of whatever funk he might be in. Which I’d very likely agree with. FWIW, I think Grandy should be in there too.

    I appreciate the fact that in game 170 something we decided we needed to shake things up but maybe it’s a too little too late situation we created here.

  20. Tidrow October 18th, 2012 at 11:33 am

    “I believe in the philosophy I was taught by Gene Michael. We are still executing the Gene Michael playbook, which is predominantly left-handed hitters that take walks. They are selective. They’re typically big, hairy monsters — as I describe them — that hit the ball over the fence, hit doubles, singles, can hit home runs. They are very selective.”
    He forgot to add, they strike out alot, can’t hit for average, don’t take the extra base or hit to opposite field and can’t lay down a bunt or make a productive out to save their lives. What a joke.

  21. Shame Spencer October 18th, 2012 at 11:34 am

    Patrick/Chip – Couldn’t have said it better myself.

  22. Patrick October 18th, 2012 at 11:35 am

    Agreed – Cashman’s design and the team he’s actually built are two totally different things. But the OBP thing does make me worry that he would bring Swisher back.

    I don’t think there’s any way he brings Swish back. I think he will offer him arb or whatever to get draft picks but Swish will undoubtedly decline and hit free agency. It’s been fun having Swisher on the team for the last 4 seasons but I see no reason to bring him back next year.

  23. G. Love October 18th, 2012 at 11:36 am

    Unfortunately, the Gene Michael model also valued players who could hit for average which the Cashman model seemed to have left off the spreadsheet. Printer must’ve run out of ink.

    The other thing Cashman hasn’t adjusted his philosophy for is the fact that the dynasty run was built during a time where PED’s were prevalent in the game. When “big hairy monsters” could .300 with 50 HR’s and they played into their late 30′s like they were still in their 20′s.

    His myopic view of how to build his offense is why for the past 3 years we’ve looked like we shouldn’t have even qualified for the post season.

    We can’t even give baseball fans a good show our hitters are so poor when the pitching improves & the stakes go up.

    Losing bats who hit for better average and some power like Damon, Matsui, Abreu, Sheff and Posada are why this offense looks like this.

    They were never replaced. Cashman gets an F on the offense for the season. If after this many seasons he didn’t know this offense would predictably fall to pieces like this, he wasn’t paying attention and was probably too busy destroying his marriage with his extortionist g/f to notice.

    His comments above are insulting to fans who support the team and can pull off the blinders to see the issues here.

    And his lack of action to fix his offense appears to have wasted a championship level pitching staff this season.

  24. Warning Track Power October 18th, 2012 at 11:37 am

    This morning Jim Bowden on ESPN Radio has some interesting comments about what
    the Yankees should be with ARod and how to acquire players for next year and get
    younger at the same time.
    Bowden said the Yankees should sign both Josh Hamilton and Michael Bourn.
    That would enable Cano and Hamilton to hit back to back and give the Yankees a lead-offer hitter, with Jeter batting 2nd.
    Bowden said the Yankees should sign a starting pitcher like Kyle Lohse and/or Greinke and add them to the rotation behind C.C.
    Bowden also said the Yankees should trade Granderson to the Nats because that teams needs a CF and in return the Nats would send there young 3rd baseman Anthony Rendon-who would obviously take over 3rd base.

  25. Chip October 18th, 2012 at 11:38 am

    Patrick October 18th, 2012 at 11:35 am

    Agreed – Cashman’s design and the team he’s actually built are two totally different things. But the OBP thing does make me worry that he would bring Swisher back.

    I don’t think there’s any way he brings Swish back. I think he will offer him arb or whatever to get draft picks but Swish will undoubtedly decline and hit free agency. It’s been fun having Swisher on the team for the last 4 seasons but I see no reason to bring him back next year.
    —————-

    He (Cashman) likes LH batters who give good OBP and can hit for power – to me that certainly sounds like Nick Swisher.

    Look, if my choices are sign Nick Swisher this year or sign Curtis Granderson next year I’ll take Swisher over Granderson – I would prefer that both were gone but I don’t see it happening.

    As I said, the scarier thought is that when Brian talks about “…predominantly left-handed hitters that take walks. They are selective. They’re typically big, hairy monsters — as I describe them — that hit the ball over the fence, hit doubles, singles, can hit home runs. They are very selective.” That paints a picture to me that says if he can free up the budget he’s going after Josh Hamilton.

  26. ac1 October 18th, 2012 at 11:40 am

    WTP: No to Hamilton (no more huge contracts other than cano). Bourn is a thought, but no Greinke. Just resign Pettitte and Kuroda (should be no brainers)….

    My guess is in the end, we also have Mark Buherle in our rotation in 2013 as part of an Alex to Miami for Bell/Buherle/$$ deal.

  27. Frankg October 18th, 2012 at 11:41 am

    The same thing happened in last year’s playoffs, and Cashman and Girardi, are still unprepared and searching for answers. The new leadership may be part of the solution.

  28. ac1 October 18th, 2012 at 11:42 am

    Would like to get Rendon but the only way they need Granderson is if LaRoche doesnt resign and they move Morse to first base. OItherwise, they have Werth/Morse/Harper already

  29. DONNYBROOK October 18th, 2012 at 11:42 am

    Sign Ichiro for 2yrs and plug him into RF in 2014. Swish can take his act on the road. His acrobatics in RF and that lame, “lights got in my eyes” excuse sealed it for me.

  30. trisha - true pinstriped blue October 18th, 2012 at 11:42 am

    Shame – he’s been dreadful. Period. So has Granderson. I want to win. So do the Yankees. Happy they’re both sitting.

  31. DONNYBROOK October 18th, 2012 at 11:43 am

    2013

  32. Chip October 18th, 2012 at 11:43 am

    ac1 October 18th, 2012 at 11:40 am

    WTP: No to Hamilton (no more huge contracts other than cano). Bourn is a thought, but no Greinke. Just resign Pettitte and Kuroda (should be no brainers)….

    My guess is in the end, we also have Mark Buherle in our rotation in 2013 as part of an Alex to Miami for Bell/Buherle/$$ deal.
    —————

    I would be ecstatic with that trade – but I don’t think it would happen. There’s no reason for the Marlins to include anything of real value (which Buherle is) in an Alex deal. More likely it would be Bell and John Buck.

  33. blake October 18th, 2012 at 11:44 am

    blake says:
    October 18, 2012 at 11:36 am
    “The Yankees will probably talk to the Marlins about a deal involving Rodriguez “just to get rid of an outdated superstar,” Olney writes. Mark Buehrle and Heath Bell could end up going from Miami to New York if the sides complete a trade. The Yankees and Marlins have had preliminary talks about a possible deal.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com

    I’d like to have Buerle but Bell is terrible an you’d really have to know how the money shook out to know if something like this would make sense…..the Yanks can’t afford to add more payroll just to get rid of Alex and that trade would do nothing to address te fact that they can’t hit

    blake says:
    October 18, 2012 at 11:43 am
    Buerle and Bell are owed 71 million between them…..so Id assume the Marlins would at least want enough money kicked in so that the money was even……the question is that would that make the Yankees better? I dunno…..I guess it would depend on if Alex bounced back and how they’d replace him in the lineup….

  34. Chambliss October 18th, 2012 at 11:45 am

    The big hairy monster part of a bit odd.

    This current team is anything but selective.

  35. Chip October 18th, 2012 at 11:45 am

    ac1 October 18th, 2012 at 11:42 am

    Would like to get Rendon but the only way they need Granderson is if LaRoche doesnt resign and they move Morse to first base. OItherwise, they have Werth/Morse/Harper already
    ——————

    Not getting Rendon for Grandy. Now if you’re willing to trade Cano….

  36. ac1 October 18th, 2012 at 11:45 am

    I would be ecstatic with that trade – but I don’t think it would happen. There’s no reason for the Marlins to include anything of real value (which Buherle is) in an Alex deal. More likely it would be Bell and John Buck.

    ___

    This is true, unless the Yankees kick in some extra money if they would rather have Buherle than Buck and i think they would. Either way Buherle has 3 years left and Bell has 2 vs Alex’s 5. Some form of this will happen!

  37. Shame Spencer October 18th, 2012 at 11:45 am

    I wish Bowden was our GM lol, I don’t see that plan happening though.

    I’d love it if it did!

  38. Mike Ri October 18th, 2012 at 11:45 am

    The kid i want is Jacoby Ellsbury…. The kid is young ,, has speed ,. has pop .. can play some good defense… EXACTLY what the Yankees need…. I’d take him any day over Granderson.

  39. Patrick October 18th, 2012 at 11:46 am

    Warning Track Power,

    That’s why Bowden isn’t a GM. Those are all terrible ideas.

    G. Love,

    To be fair, the Yankee offense did score the 2nd most runs in MLB this season. My main complaint is the way they did it and how that translates to the playoffs. I don’t have any numbers to back this up so it’s just me going on what I see (always a dangerous proposition). But it seems to me that a team that waits for the home run ball will get owned by good pitching.

    2009 and earlier when the offense prioritized OBP, good pitching was difficult to face but much easier to handle than it is now. The Yankee strategy against an ace was to run up his pitch count and get into the bullpen after 5 innings. You just don’t see that anymore because the Yankees don’t have the players to fit that strategy.

  40. Warning Track Power October 18th, 2012 at 11:46 am

    ac1 October 18th, 2012 at 11:42 am
    Would like to get Rendon but the only way they need Granderson is if LaRoche doesnt resign and they move Morse to first base. OItherwise, they have Werth/Morse/Harper already
    ———————————————————————————————————
    I think the Nats want both Werth and Harper to play the corner OF spots.
    That means they need a legit CF and that guy might be Granderson

  41. ac1 October 18th, 2012 at 11:46 am

    Not getting Rendon for Grandy. Now if you’re willing to trade Cano….

    ___

    I know. I was saying it wouldnt happen but i would be all over it if it did.
    I am a believer in holding onto Cano despite what we have seen this postseason.
    No way i give up his talent.

  42. blake October 18th, 2012 at 11:48 am

    “Bowden also said the Yankees should trade Granderson to the Nats because that teams needs a CF and in return the Nats would send there young 3rd baseman Anthony Rendon-who would obviously take over 3rd base.”

    I’d love to do this……the rest of the Stuff Bowden said is basically him refusing to acknowledge that George isn’t running the team anymore and that Hal won’t spend that money

  43. ac1 October 18th, 2012 at 11:48 am

    Regarding Ellsbury, i also would like to have him. I believe he would fit NYY a lot better than BOS. He even looks more NY than BOS. No way the Sox trade him to us and no way we overpay to get him iin free agency the way Boras is talking.

  44. DONNYBROOK October 18th, 2012 at 11:49 am

    I do Not believe the Yanks Care if any trade shedding them of A-Rod makes the Yankee team better or Not. Every day A-Rod is wearing pinstripes, reminds the FO of how horrendous a decision Hank made when he re-signed A-Rod After the opt-out. It’s a black eye, a stain, that they gotta look at EVERY single day.

  45. Patrick October 18th, 2012 at 11:49 am

    That paints a picture to me that says if he can free up the budget he’s going after Josh Hamilton.

    Good point…. I don’t think Cashman will go there though. There just isn’t room in the budget to dump on a 31 year old injury prone corner outfielder. Looking back, Cash really should have signed Matt Holliday…

    I think Cashman will let Swisher go, pick up Granderson’s option and look for trades but ultimately keep him for 2013 and let him go after that.

  46. blake October 18th, 2012 at 11:50 am

    Bourn isn’t significantly better than Gardner and will cost a lot more…..that’s basically the Crawford debate all over again…. How’s that contract going ?

  47. ac1 October 18th, 2012 at 11:50 am

    long term though getting rid of Alex will make the team better because it frees up a lot of money to find other players. i happen to think arod can turn his career around, but i think he needs to be out of the NY spotlight to make it happen.

  48. Warning Track Power October 18th, 2012 at 11:50 am

    Blake-Before Bowden went on with his suggestions, he said that Cash should
    talk to Hal and beg for him to allow Cash to spend money, perhaps get the payroll near
    200 million because the Yankee fans deserve to have a winner on the field and the team needs
    to get younger as well.

    Hey, those were just ideas he was floating around. Who knows how many, if any will come true, but it’s worth a discussion

  49. Patrick October 18th, 2012 at 11:51 am

    blake,

    It’s actually crazy how similar Gardner and Bourn’s statistics are. Signing Bourn would be a huge mistake

  50. Chip October 18th, 2012 at 11:51 am

    Carlos Zambrano’s option won’t vest for 2013 or else I would say he’s a natural for the Marlins to shove back at the Yankees in an Alex deal.

    As it stands – I would guess the $18M owed Bell, the $6M owed Buck and maybe the $12M for Nolasco would be involved.

  51. Mike Ri October 18th, 2012 at 11:51 am

    Regarding Ellsbury, i also would like to have him. I believe he would fit NYY a lot better than BOS. He even looks more NY than BOS. No way the Sox trade him to us and no way we overpay to get him iin free agency the way Boras is talking.

    —————

    Isn’t he a free agent this year ??? he’s left handed too !!

  52. blake October 18th, 2012 at 11:52 am

    If Cashman had signed Holliday then Jackson , coke and Kenedy would still be Yankees as well…..they made that trade because they didn’t want to pay Holliday

  53. ac1 October 18th, 2012 at 11:52 am

    they arent signing Bourn.
    they are going to hope Gardner stays healthy.

  54. Shame Spencer October 18th, 2012 at 11:52 am

    trisha – true pinstriped blue October 18th, 2012 at 11:42 am

    Shame – he’s been dreadful. Period. So has Granderson. I want to win. So do the Yankees. Happy they’re both sitting.

    ———————–

    Arod has an OPS of 1.005 verse Justin Verlander. You didn’t answer my question at all.

    I want to win at all costs as well, which is why I say we should blow up the budget and sign everyone.. but you find that unrealistic. What I find unrealistic is playing all of your bench players and expecting to win a series verse the Tigers. If you can’t win these games with the team of starters you put together in ST, you can’t win this series.

    The Yankees organization is not prioritizing winning by making these moves at the 12th hour. They are creating a distraction and at this point I have to hope they can trade Arod or else this thing can go from distraction to disaster fairly quickly.

  55. ac1 October 18th, 2012 at 11:52 am

    Isn’t he a free agent this year ??? he’s left handed too !!

    ___

    after 2013.

  56. Mike Ri October 18th, 2012 at 11:53 am

    thx ac1

  57. blake October 18th, 2012 at 11:53 am

    Blake-Before Bowden went on with his suggestions, he said that Cash should
    talk to Hal and beg for him to allow Cash to spend money, perhaps get the payroll near
    200 million because the Yankee fans deserve to have a winner on the field and the team needs
    to get younger as well.”

    Hey I agree….but Makes the calls

  58. trisha - true pinstriped blue October 18th, 2012 at 11:54 am

    Shame, unlike me, who is happy to let people feel the way they want, you need to keep pressing and pressing and pressing.

    So what is the question I didn’t answer.

  59. JobaTipsHisCap October 18th, 2012 at 11:54 am

    please fire cashman.
    this team will never win another champ under his watch. mark my words.

  60. Hassey October 18th, 2012 at 11:54 am

    does anyone recall a time when the Yankees were in a worse position in terms of offseason trading leverage…the guys we want to get rid of have all sukked and alot of our most desirable minor league trading chips have been hurt = no recent track record

  61. G. Love October 18th, 2012 at 11:54 am

    Patrick,

    We both watch this team a lot I’m sure.

    Are you really impressed by the runs scored total when you realize most of them are scored in blowout games against poor pitching? Most of these stats are compiled against the weaklings of the league. This team is notorious for putting up 15 runs in one game and then barely 10 runs in the next 5 games.

    When our team was so hot to close out the season we were beating up on Toronto and Boston pitching primarily.

    The script for this team is clobber a starter and get into the pen and put up double digits and watch a laugher and then struggle for runs once a pitcher with a breaking ball and modicum of control shows up.

    It’s why the minute we see guys in the post season who know how to pitch, we can’t hit them.

    It’s also why we have all the 9th inning rallies, because by then the starter is either out of the game and we’re into the pen or the starter is gassed.

  62. blake October 18th, 2012 at 11:55 am

    Love ellsburys swing…..but he’s porcelain

  63. mate October 18th, 2012 at 11:55 am

    I might have taken longer than for others, but I’m now convinced that Cashman is not the right man for the job going forward. And neither is Girardi.

    And the A-Rod BS needs to stop. He’s a billion times a better player than Chavez, a dude who made a costly error and can’t get on base to save his life so far either. You stick with Arod and hope for the best. But they are clearly trying to piss the guy off and run him out of town, good luck with that though. Plain dumb. SMH

  64. Chip October 18th, 2012 at 11:55 am

    Mike Ri October 18th, 2012 at 11:51 am

    Regarding Ellsbury, i also would like to have him. I believe he would fit NYY a lot better than BOS. He even looks more NY than BOS. No way the Sox trade him to us and no way we overpay to get him iin free agency the way Boras is talking.

    —————

    Isn’t he a free agent this year ??? he’s left handed too !!
    —————-

    after next season and I stay away from him like the plague. He’s had one good season, but by and large he has been injury prone and a bit of a complainer/bad clubhouse guy. Now being in Boston probably didn’t help, but I don’t need that kind of personality around the Yankees.

  65. DONNYBROOK October 18th, 2012 at 11:55 am

    It’s to the point that the ability of a player does Not matter when dealing A-Rod. Everything revolves around how much $$$ a player has remaining on his contract. This trade is gonna be what you see inna Fantasy Baseball Contract Keeper League.

  66. Hassey October 18th, 2012 at 11:56 am

    I’m trying to mark Jobatipshiscap’s words, but it doesn’t seem to be working

    where is the “word marking” button on this thing?

  67. Chip October 18th, 2012 at 11:56 am

    blake October 18th, 2012 at 11:55 am

    Love ellsburys swing…..but he’s porcelain
    ———

    Speaking of porcelain – given the way he’s been bargain bin shopping – would it shock you for Cashman to take fliers on Grady Sizemore or Pronk?

  68. ac1 October 18th, 2012 at 11:57 am

    i’d LOVE to see what Andrew Friedman could do for us with 189M to spend…

  69. blake October 18th, 2012 at 11:58 am

    “Speaking of porcelain – given the way he’s been bargain bin shopping – would it shock you for Cashman to take fliers on Grady Sizemore or Pronk?”

    Only when they reach the bottom of the bargain bin…..then Cash will pounce

  70. ac1 October 18th, 2012 at 11:58 am

    Chip. I used to think Sizemore would be an awesome addition to this team.
    If Cashman digs that far into the dumpster now, I’d just facepalm over and over.

  71. Warning Track Power October 18th, 2012 at 11:59 am

    I really hate how ARod is getting so much negative attention right now
    on talk radio and t.v.

    I really don’t feel like he will be this same player going forward.
    He just happens to be in a horrible slump and the worst possible time in the season.
    Add the value of his contract and there is no other polarizing figured in MLB today.

    Time and time again he has impressed me with his comments to the media during this
    ugly situation. He’s saying all the right things and it not adding any fuel to the fire when
    all the microphones are in his face.

  72. Patrick October 18th, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    G. Love,

    Most teams rack up the majority of their runs against bad pitching, the Yankees aren’t any different there. 2nd in the league is 2nd in the league, the offense was pretty good this year.

    I do agree that the Yankees might be particularly weak against good pitching; weaker than they should be given their season run total. But again, I don’t have numbers to back that up – just broad conceptual ideas about how their offense works. So I can’t say that with any certainty.

    I do think that the team has to go back to the idea of grinding out at-bats, taking walks and getting the starter out early so they can shred the bullpen. This was the overruling offensive philosophy throughout the 2000′s and I think it’s what Cashman and Girardi want to do. The problem is, the players in place aren’t capable of carrying out that strategy.

    All that being said, I certainly didn’t expect the offense to be THIS bad and I am fairly sure it’s just due to bad luck and a small sample. Even against good pitching they should be able to score more than they have as currently constructed.

  73. blake October 18th, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    “ac1 says:
    October 18, 2012 at 11:57 am
    i’d LOVE to see what Andrew Friedman could do for us with 189M to spend…”

    Problem would be the same one Though…..a lot of that 189 is already spent

  74. Against All Odds October 18th, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    ac1 October 18th, 2012 at 11:57 am

    i’d LOVE to see what Andrew Friedman could do for us with 189M to spend…

    —————————

    Bring him and his advisers in :D problem solved

  75. Shame Spencer October 18th, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue October 18th, 2012 at 11:54 am

    Shame, unlike me, who is happy to let people feel the way they want, you need to keep pressing and pressing and pressing.

    So what is the question I didn’t answer.

    ————————–

    You are not happy to allow people to feel how they want, trisha, you do you fair share of pressing on here as well and that’s just fine by me. I don’t mind it. Everyone does a good amount of preaching on here.

    But you specifically said you were only talking about supporting the decision to sit Arod for this game, so I asked about the decisions to bench him in prior games. Arods numbers vs. Verlander have actually been good, for example, so I’m curious what your opinion is on he other benchings, specifically the one against the pitcher he has good numbers against.

    I don’t see how you sub 3-4 of your regulars as a ‘win now’ move when you’re on the brink. They could have gotten Gardner a bunch of ABs at the end of the season but still ran Jones out there in late September!!! Nunez was doing nothing with the big club after some errors. But now these are the guys we need to help us save our season.

    These are the moves people were begging for earlier… not when you’re season is literally hanging by a thread.

  76. DONNYBROOK October 18th, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    Somebody better call the EMT’s. WTP has OD’d

  77. ac1 October 18th, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    I agree that Alex won’t be this bad and he is saying all the right things, but this is 100% based on his salary for me. Sometimes, good deals and hard decisions have to be made. I do agree this negativity toward him personally every day is ridiculous.

  78. blake October 18th, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    @jcrasnick: A-Rod had a 1.067 OPS to win MVP award in 2007. His OPS since then: .965, .933, .847, .823, .783. #yankees

    Man Alex was a monster in 2007…..that seems so long ago now

  79. ac1 October 18th, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    Problem would be the same one Though…..a lot of that 189 is already spent

    ___

    That’s where dealing some of the players comes in.
    Get rid of Alex, Granderson and Swish and that’s a start. It wont be a 1 year think, but as these big contracts go away, we can grow the team from ground up.

  80. Hassey October 18th, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    2007 Alex – he smoked that high FB for the walkoff granny vs. Cleveland. When is the last time you were confident he’d catch up to that same pitch?

  81. Nick in SF October 18th, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    “Arod has an OPS of 1.005 verse Justin Verlander. You didn’t answer my question at all.”

    How much of that came after King Felix broke his hand?

  82. DONNYBROOK October 18th, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    Yankees will Not be shedding team payroll when they dump A-Rod. You guys musta been the ones that formulated Ronald Reagan’s Trickle-Down Scam.

  83. Cashman needs to go October 18th, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    How long before we see Cashman on the Jerry Springer Show?

    I blame Cashman, but mostly that bleeping bleepoff of a son Hal for the bleepin circus and sad joke the yankees have become…i’d like to slap that geeky hairdo right off Hal’s head if I could..

    as much as it pains me..i couldn’t be happier to see empty seats at yankee stadium during the playoffs..the fans have spoken..they aren’t putting up with the cr@p that hal and cashman have put on the field..now if hal would put the tennis racket down for a few minutes, grow a pair and open up the checkbook with all those zero’s and commas in it – and actually put some quality on the field and in the lineup maybe the fans will start coming out to watch the yankees play again..and restore some pride in the best franchise in sports again

  84. Patrick October 18th, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    How much of that came after King Felix broke his hand?

    Mister Blutarsky…
    Zero … point … zero.

  85. blake October 18th, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    @BNightengale: The #Yankees want to dump A-Rod, the #Angels want to trade Vernon Wells to keep Torii Hunter, so why not make a deal? http://t.co/iP7Kr1yQ

    Yes Vernon Wells answers all our problems

  86. Shame Spencer October 18th, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    Nick in SF October 18th, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    “Arod has an OPS of 1.005 verse Justin Verlander. You didn’t answer my question at all.”

    How much of that came after King Felix broke his hand?

    —————

    Probably not much, I can’t even remember if Alex played against him after the injury but that’s not really the point I’m trying to make. It’s that in the past if a guy was slumping we’re all about small sample sizes and giving them a chance to bounce back… that’d be what Joe would tell us and what the half of the blog not ripping their hair out would reiterate.

    This is just not solely baseball related, which has been disputed on here.

  87. JobaTipsHisCap October 18th, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    I’d like to see Arod bash Yankees in front of the medias. That would be fun.
    Arod really can’t lose anything, he got everything already, from money to champ.
    yankees will look pretty bad if they continue to humiliate arod.

  88. G. Love October 18th, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    Patrick,

    I’ll agree to disagree because I don’t think it’s a small sample. I think if you look at players like Tex & Arod, they’ve been trending the wrong way for 3 years straight now.

    Swisher never could hit good pitching. The reason he hits .250-ish is he can’t hit breaking balls unless he goes up there looking for one and ignores fastballs over the plate. His skillset is very limited and he has stopped being that patient hitter who saw a lot of pitches per AB.

    I do agree with you that Cashman wants the offense to work the pitcher and get into the pen in the 5th-6th inning if not sooner. The problem is we have guys who have no ability to hit breaking/offspeed pitches so when those are thrown they chase & lunge at them and usually miss.

    Cashman knew this about these guys by the trade deadline this year. 2010 you could get away with small sample. 2011 you could try to use that excuse again but it was already getting thin since it was a repeat of what we saw in 2010. When the regular season team, which struggled a lot offensively this year in many stretches, showed the same issues it was on him to make a bold move or three and try to find hitters who fit the model. Ichiro was a great move, but he clearly wasn’t enough and Girardi kept him buried at the bottom of the lineup until Ichiro hit .750 for awhile and forced him to move him up.

    If Cashman resigns Swisher and keeps this current group together, the end result will always be the same if teams with good pitching make the post season.

    Detroit is a smart team. I think Dombrowski knew if he traded for a starter, get one’s who can command breaking pitches as the Yankees won’t hit them in a short series. His rotation knows exactly how to pitch to this team and have the arsenal to do it.

    We can beat Baltimore because after awhile you’ll get to their fastball only pitchers. But guys who can make the ball move like O’Day and Gonzalez on their team baffle our hitters.

    And if you look at the posts from the spring you’ll see a lot of us saying these same exact things then.

    Cashman wanted to believe in pedigree and backs of baseball cards and he’s getting burned for it for the 3rd post season in a row.

  89. DONNYBROOK October 18th, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    Forget the “small sample size” horse shi… THIS is about shedding a broken down, and continuing to break down ROID USER. A-Rod’s play is gonna continue to deteriorate, he is gonna continually have something pysically wrong with him, and NOW that he is becoming an issue with his disinterest in the team during a Playoff Game, HE GOTTA GO.

  90. Chip October 18th, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    blake October 18th, 2012 at 11:58 am

    “Speaking of porcelain – given the way he’s been bargain bin shopping – would it shock you for Cashman to take fliers on Grady Sizemore or Pronk?”

    Only when they reach the bottom of the bargain bin…..then Cash will pounce
    ——————–

    Given the success Brian had with Chavez Sizemore wouldn’t shock me. Pronk might only because he’s even less of a fielder than Ibanez.

    Eric Hinske, Aubrey Huff, Brandon Inge, Jason Bartlett and Wiggington are other guys I could see the Yankees looking at this winter.

  91. Chip October 18th, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    blake October 18th, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    @BNightengale: The #Yankees want to dump A-Rod, the #Angels want to trade Vernon Wells to keep Torii Hunter, so why not make a deal? http://t.co/iP7Kr1yQ

    Yes Vernon Wells answers all our problems
    ——————-

    I would rather have him than Alex. I don’t know if Alex would go out there though – maybe a three team deal – Alex to the Marlins, Heath Bell to the Angels and Wells to the Yankees.

  92. DONNYBROOK October 18th, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    Hinske I can live with. Those other guys are not bargain bin, they are Goodwill material.

  93. blake October 18th, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    How much of Arods contract would the Angels have to take before youd do a Wells trade? Wells is owed 50 million over the next two years …..he’s cooked but he’ll also be gone in two years.

    I’d think the Angels would have to take 80 million or so……that would save the Yanks about 30 millionish….

  94. Patrick October 18th, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    The problem is we have guys who have no ability to hit breaking/offspeed pitches so when those are thrown they chase & lunge at them and usually miss.

    Yes this I agree with.

    Again, I also agree that this team is too weak against good pitchers. But even as it is they shouldn’t be quite as bad as we’ve seen this postseason. Even last year they weren’t as inept vs Detroit as they are right now. The struggles we see right now are heavily influenced by just a bad luck slump.

    The Yankee offense in the regular season had a .790 OPS. I don’t expect them to have that same OPS in the postseason but I also didn’t expect them to have a .600 OPS or whatever it is they are averaging so far.

    As to how Cashman fixes it.. Well step one is letting Swisher walk. I think you also need to replace Martin and Ibanez with players that are better at getting on base. I would keep Ichiro and I think Gardner will help as well. Other than that, aside from a big trade, I don’t see anything else Cashman can do this offseason. This lineup can’t be fixed in 1 offseason, it will take a few years..

  95. blake October 18th, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    “I would rather have him than Alex”

    He’s way worse than Alex on the field….he’s done….

  96. Chip October 18th, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    blake October 18th, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    How much of Arods contract would the Angels have to take before youd do a Wells trade? Wells is owed 50 million over the next two years …..he’s cooked but he’ll also be gone in two years.

    I’d think the Angels would have to take 80 million or so……that would save the Yanks about 30 millionish….
    —————————

    I think that’s fair. Angels get Alex and half of the difference between his contract and Wells.

  97. DONNYBROOK October 18th, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    Dealing Cano is the way to restock and hit the $189 Mill Mark by 2014.

  98. jacksquat October 18th, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    Against All Odds October 18th, 2012 at 9:38 am
    Now it’s time to concentrate on the O.

    —————

    According to Cashman it’s just a slump at the wrong time. Ignore the fact they struggled all yr

    I don’t mean to single out a post from a single person, but I just returned and it’s too hard to copy and past multiple posts atm.

    If this team were only just performing offensively anything like they did throughout the year, they would be doing much better. You can’t blame Cano + Arod + Swisher + Granderson collectively hitting around .150 on Cashman. No one predicted anything as extreme as we’ve seen. Yet some seem to want to take advantage of that and say I told you so. Never mind that Cano is a complete aberration and Arod is currently being defended here tooth and nail. Granderson was nearly MVP just last year.

    Jeter going down is obviously not anyone’s fault.

    Let’s also remember that Gardner, while just inserted in the lineup, was supposed to be here all year, and mostly a full time player.

    So yes, some things have happened that are more extreme than anyone could have predicted, and yes injuries, have contributed to a team situation that is not as planned.

  99. blake October 18th, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    The Angels would essentially get Alex for a 5/30 deal ……the Yanks would save 6 million a year…..I don’t know if it would be worth it though cause Wells is close to useless as a player now

  100. blake October 18th, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    DONNYBROOK says:
    October 18, 2012 at 12:24 pm
    Dealing Cano is the way to restock and hit the $189 Mill Mark by 2014.

    It’s also the way to miss the playoffs for awhile too

  101. Jerkface October 18th, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    Oh man, all these a-rod trade options sure are enticing. Not!

    Vernon Wells? F No, he is worse than A-rod.
    Mark & Heath? NO , Buehrle would not fit in NYS. His HR rate is crazy because his stuff isn’t good. He doesnt strike guys out and he is both old and owed a lot of money over the next 3 years. I’d rather bring back Kuroda & Pettitte for the cost.

    These trades are all terrible. There is no point in trading a-rod if you’re not getting salary relief or a useful piece.

  102. CountryClub October 18th, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    Buster Olney ?@Buster_ESPN
    From ESPN Stats/Info: Alex Rodriguez ranks 170th among 173 major-leaguers in OPS (.458) vs. right-handers since coming off the DL Sept. 3.

  103. DONNYBROOK October 18th, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    I’m sure if possible, the Yanks wantta deal A-Rod outta the AL. That Miami owner is crazy\dumb enough to bite on Alex. Deal with Miami and keep the Angels out of it. The Yanks do Not wantta help the Angels get back on their feet.

  104. Tackelberry October 18th, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    blake October 18th, 2012 at 12:21 pm
    How much of Arods contract would the Angels have to take before youd do a Wells trade? Wells is owed 50 million over the next two years …..he’s cooked but he’ll also be gone in two years.

    I’d think the Angels would have to take 80 million or so……that would save the Yanks about 30 millionish….

    ________________________________________

    Wells is owed 42 mill over the last 2 years of the deal. So maybe the Yanks can get away with kicking in about 3 mill for the next 2 years since it is close to a wash. Arod makes 28 mill next year, 25 mill in 2014. Then in the last 3 years, Arod makes 21, 20 and 20 mill, so the Yanks agree to kick in 10 mill per year over the last 3 years of the deal since Wells will be gone in 2 years.

  105. Chip October 18th, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    Patrick October 18th, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    As to how Cashman fixes it.. Well step one is letting Swisher walk. I think you also need to replace Martin and Ibanez with players that are better at getting on base. I would keep Ichiro and I think Gardner will help as well. Other than that, aside from a big trade, I don’t see anything else Cashman can do this offseason. This lineup can’t be fixed in 1 offseason, it will take a few years..
    ——————

    I agree with all of this – though in looking at the catcher market I don’t see anyone who is an improvement over Martin. Napoli is the obvious one, but he’s not a catcher.

    I still think they can move Granderson this winter.

  106. Patrick October 18th, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    These trades are all terrible. There is no point in trading a-rod if you’re not getting salary relief or a useful piece.

    Yep.. which is why he is not going to get traded unless Cashman lucks into something

  107. Jerkface October 18th, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    Vernon Wells for A-rod would be terrible. Wells is right handed, he is going to get crushed in NYS & is pretty much a wasted roster spot. Atleast an uninjured A-rod can be counted on to do well. He had an .800 OPS before he broke his hand. His contract is expensive for that .800 OPS, but better than paying 6 million less for .600 OPS

  108. Chip October 18th, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    blake October 18th, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    The Angels would essentially get Alex for a 5/30 deal ……the Yanks would save 6 million a year…..I don’t know if it would be worth it though cause Wells is close to useless as a player now
    ——————

    I would look at him to fill an Andruw Jones role off the bench.

  109. JobaTipsHisCap October 18th, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    I also like to see Arod bash Joe Torre, which he should have done long time ago.
    can’t wait.

  110. blake October 18th, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    These trades are all terrible. There is no point in trading a-rod if you’re not getting salary relief or a useful piece.”

    Agree ….question is how much salary relief do you need to make it worthwhile

  111. DONNYBROOK October 18th, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    If you wanna straighten this mess out, Dump A-Rod and trade Cano\Nova inna Blockbuster. Cano aint Mantle.

  112. Jerkface October 18th, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    I would look at him to fill an Andruw Jones role off the bench.

    Wells vs LHP .227 .298 .373 .671

    If you meant a 2012 Jones role off the bench (aka useless waste of space) then sure.

  113. Chip October 18th, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    Patrick October 18th, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    These trades are all terrible. There is no point in trading a-rod if you’re not getting salary relief or a useful piece.

    Yep.. which is why he is not going to get traded unless Cashman lucks into something
    ——————

    Cashman got nothing for Burnett and ate a good portion of his contract. I know that AJ’s deal was small potatoes compared to the money he would have to absorb for Alex, but it’s not like it would be unprecedented.

  114. Patrick October 18th, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    Chip,

    Trading Grandy is a definite possibility. I’m not sure Cash will get fair value though…

    I would love Napoli on the Yankees, he is a very good hitter. As long as you have a good defensive backup you can live with Napoli as the starter at catcher.

  115. luis October 18th, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    G Love and Patrick,

    Both had very good posts as usual. I would say Patrick that the problem has been compounded by age, decline and poor batting approaches. Last season still, they were able to work the counts, that’s not the case any longer. This season they had a hard time even with pitchers they should have pounded. It’s no longer good pitching they can’t hit, the O’s staff was very pedestrian and we had a world of trouble to scratch some runs.

    If many of us could see it a mile away… Why didn’t the GM?

  116. Chip October 18th, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    Jerkface October 18th, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    I would look at him to fill an Andruw Jones role off the bench.

    Wells vs LHP .227 .298 .373 .671

    If you meant a 2012 Jones role off the bench (aka useless waste of space) then sure.
    —————-

    Yup, that’s essentially what I mean.

  117. blake October 18th, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    ” wasted roster spot. Atleast an uninjured A-rod can be counted on to do well. He had an .800 OPS before he broke his hand. His contract is expensive for that .800 OPS, but better than paying 6 million less for .600 OPS”

    Unless they either don’t think Arod can do that or unless they just really want him out of the clubhouse

  118. Chip October 18th, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    Patrick October 18th, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    Chip,

    Trading Grandy is a definite possibility. I’m not sure Cash will get fair value though…

    I would love Napoli on the Yankees, he is a very good hitter. As long as you have a good defensive backup you can live with Napoli as the starter at catcher.
    ——————

    If the Yankees wanted a good hitting catcher who wasn’t much defensively Jesus Montero would still be here.

  119. Nick in SF October 18th, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    “Probably not much, I can’t even remember if Alex played against him after the injury but that’s not really the point I’m trying to make.”

    But the reality of Arod’s numbers vs. RHP over the course of the season and especially since his hand injury — and the pitchers he’s faced since then are all worse than Justin Verlander — undermines the point you’re trying to make, unless your point is that you find sticking with Arod regardless of how he’s performing preferable to going with the option that gives the team the better chance to win a game.

    If a guy is slumping in mid-July you keep playing him to get him going, or you give him a day off and then put him back in there. But this isn’t a game in mid-July.

    If your real point is that benching Arod vs. RHP in the ALCS isn’t a baseball move and that it’s all about Puppetmaster trickeration, that point may have some merit — who knows? — then is that OPS vs. Verlander supposed to be the proof? What is its relevance to this series in October?

  120. Cashman needs to go October 18th, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    the worse thing that happened to cashman was the success of aaron small and sean chacon – those 2 especially made him think he was a genius in picking up garbage bin players..

    of course cashy being as dumb as he is he didn’t bother to factor in the other disaster garbage bin players he signed like sidney ponson (not once but TWICE), richie sexson, darnell mcdonald, steve pearce (like 3 times), igarashi – i can go on and on but i won’t..

    and now half the yankee roster is made up of garbage bin players..and thats the product you see on the field…

    add to that the fact that his trades have been disasters and the highly regarded minor leaguers are coming up zeros…

  121. blake October 18th, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    JF,

    If they made that trade would the Angels assume the HR bonuses should Alex get to them?

  122. Patrick October 18th, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    Cashman got nothing for Burnett and ate a good portion of his contract. I know that AJ’s deal was small potatoes compared to the money he would have to absorb for Alex, but it’s not like it would be unprecedented.

    Well the difference is that when he made the deal there was literally no room for Burnett on the roster. He got some salary relief which is better than releasing him and getting nothing. With A-rod, there is still a spot on this team for him. He can still play 3B, he still owns LHP, he can still DH, etc. Cash isn’t going to give him away AND pay all his salary.

  123. Jerkface October 18th, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    Cashman got nothing for Burnett and ate a good portion of his contract. I know that AJ’s deal was small potatoes compared to the money he would have to absorb for Alex, but it’s not like it would be unprecedented.

    No, you answered your own retort there. Burnett was traded and the contract eaten because it was small potatoes AND the yankees did not take back any salary obligation AND they had more pitchers than rotation spots.

    They ate 11.5 mil and 8.5 mil. So 75% of 1 year and half of the other. 20 million and the biggest hit came in the very next season. If they trade A-rod in any of these stupid situations they are all payroll neutral or WORSE and the pieces coming back are all TERRIBLE.

    Not to mention, Burnett’s trade clears before 2014.

  124. Chip October 18th, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    blake October 18th, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    ” wasted roster spot. Atleast an uninjured A-rod can be counted on to do well. He had an .800 OPS before he broke his hand. His contract is expensive for that .800 OPS, but better than paying 6 million less for .600 OPS”

    Unless they either don’t think Arod can do that or unless they just really want him out of the clubhouse
    —————-

    And that’s the rub isn’t it? We can talk about the baseball and financial implications of an Alex trade until the cows come home, but the question is, “how motivated are the Yankees to move him?” Would they be willing to take back nothing and just consider it addition by subtraction so they don’t have to spend another spring training talking about Alex’s benching this postseason; so they don’t have to spend another season waiting for the next Alex-related drama?

  125. CountryClub October 18th, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    trade Arod? Go vote….

    http://riveraveblues.com/2012/.....uez-77909/

  126. DONNYBROOK October 18th, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    I believe Hal is tired of Daily looking at A-Rod and being reminded of the bonehead manuever his Bro made. Top it off with the recent scandal that is getting National Media attention, and he has told Cashman to begin fielding offers. A-Rod is gone for whatever the best offer may be, whether the team is worse assa result in 2013 or Not.

  127. Shame Spencer October 18th, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    blake October 18th, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    How much of Arods contract would the Angels have to take before youd do a Wells trade? Wells is owed 50 million over the next two years …..he’s cooked but he’ll also be gone in two years.

    I’d think the Angels would have to take 80 million or so……that would save the Yanks about 30 millionish….

    —————

    Hmm… so now we just need to find a way to spend $30 million dollars on another 3B and an OFer… Okay fine. You and Chip work that out, I’m all for it!

  128. Against All Odds October 18th, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    No one predicted anything as extreme as we’ve seen. Yet some seem to want to take advantage of that and say I told you so

    ———————-

    Fans on this site and others have spoken about the decline in offense that was right around the corner. Yes somethings can not be predicted but anyone that follows the team is not surprised. If you have a line-up with one guy in his prime surrounded by players past it, exiting it, or are simply just flawed hitters then sooner rather than later things will come to a head.

  129. Jerkface October 18th, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    Yup, that’s essentially what I mean.

    Then why make the trade? They shouldn’t be making any trade that deadens a roster spot unless it provides significant salary relief. They can pay 6 million more and have a player that can actually DH & play third.

  130. Against All Odds October 18th, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    DONNYBROOK October 18th, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    I believe Hal is tired of Daily looking at A-Rod and being reminded of the bonehead manuever his Bro made.

    ———————-

    He was apart of the move too. Hal was the money guy then just like he is the money guy now.

  131. DONNYBROOK October 18th, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    As I recall, AJ was dealt in order to free up $$$ to sign Ibanez\Chavez.

  132. Jerkface October 18th, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    If they trade his contract all the bonuses and whatever go with him. The Yankees could agree to send money to cover them though.

  133. Chip October 18th, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    Jerkface October 18th, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    Yup, that’s essentially what I mean.

    Then why make the trade? They shouldn’t be making any trade that deadens a roster spot unless it provides significant salary relief. They can pay 6 million more and have a player that can actually DH & play third.
    —————

    Alex can’t hit RHP which means he’s going to platoon against LHP for the most part, barring an extreme turn around. I’ll take the dead spot for 2 years over the dead spot for 5 years.

  134. DONNYBROOK October 18th, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    Hal is More than a $$$ guy. It’s His signature that is required on ALL Yankee transactions.

  135. Patrick October 18th, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    I think a lot of you need to come to grips with the fact that A-rod is basically an unmovable contract. Nobody wants to pay that contract, he is not getting traded unless Cashman makes a horrendous deal. Which he won’t because he’s not stupid.

    Shame on Hank and Hal for signing that dopey contract to begin with, should have listened to Cashman when Alex opted out. Now we have to live with the consequences of that mistake

  136. dan l October 18th, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    First who cares about AAA seasoning! If a kid does well in AA bring him up if there’s a spot for him. AAA should just be a waiting for an opportunity station.

    I think Cashman has failed an I am hoping for a more Cardinals approach to the game with the Yankees money as an added bonus. David Girsch would be a nice target is Cashman is let go.

  137. Jerkface October 18th, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    Alex can’t hit RHP which means he’s going to platoon against LHP for the most part, barring an extreme turn around. I’ll take the dead spot for 2 years over the dead spot for 5 years.

    A-rod had a reverse split in 2011. He was equal against righties & lefties prior to that. I don’t think its a forgone conclusion that he is finished vs RHP.

  138. blake October 18th, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    “Hmm… so now we just need to find a way to spend $30 million dollars on another 3B and an OFer… Okay fine. You and Chip work that out, I’m all for it!”

    Chase Headley!

  139. DONNYBROOK October 18th, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    You guys just do Not get it. Trading A-Rod is Not about improving the Yankee Team. It is ALL about removing a constant reminder\stain.

  140. Jerkface October 18th, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    Alex hit .273 .340 .424 vs RHP before he broke his hand. Not the best, but not terrible.

  141. CountryClub October 18th, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    I would trade Arod no matter what, even if they have to eat his whole deal. I’d rather they pay him to stink on someone else’s team than their own.

    If they’re going to pay him anyway, send him away. His health and skills will continue to decline annually. He’ll still be pretty good next year. But what about in 2 years? 3 years? Does anyone really want him clogging the roster and the DH in 3 years with a .700 OPS (or worse)? I’d rather they pay him to be someone else’s problem.

    They may need the DH for Cano in 3 years (when they inevitably sign him to his crazy deal). Hopefully, Cano will still be able to hit at that point.

  142. DONNYBROOK October 18th, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    You deal Cano, and you do Not have to spend on another 3B\OF’er.

  143. blake October 18th, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    “I think a lot of you need to come to grips with the fact that A-rod is basically an unmovable contract.”

    I think the unmovable may be moved this winter…..whether it’ll be a good move or not I don’t know…….

  144. CountryClub October 18th, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    Jerry Crasnick ?@jcrasnick
    A-Rod had a 1.067 OPS to win MVP award in 2007. His OPS since then: .965, .933, .847, .823, .783. #yankees

  145. blake October 18th, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    JF,

    How much salary relief would you need to move him? That’s what it boils down to…..

  146. Patrick October 18th, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    Alex hit .273 .340 .424 vs RHP before he broke his hand. Not the best, but not terrible.

    —-

    Exactly. He wasn’t worth what he was getting paid pre-injury but he wasn’t a total black hole either. After an offseason of rest it’s pretty likely A-rod comes back and is the same player he was in 2012 before breaking his wrist. That means slightly below average at 3B and probably like .800-.850 OPS.

  147. blake October 18th, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    DONNYBROOK says:
    October 18, 2012 at 12:40 pm
    You deal Cano, and you do Not have to spend on another 3B\OF’er.

    No….you have to spend on another best player on the team

  148. Jerkface October 18th, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    How much salary relief would you need to move him? That’s what it boils down to…..

    50% or higher.

  149. Chip October 18th, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    Patrick October 18th, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    I think a lot of you need to come to grips with the fact that A-rod is basically an unmovable contract. Nobody wants to pay that contract, he is not getting traded unless Cashman makes a horrendous deal. Which he won’t because he’s not stupid.
    ——————

    Boston was able to move Carl Crawford; Toronto was able to move Vernon Wells. Anything is possible.

    Taking the Vernon Wells thing aside – because that was just a brain fart by the Angels – could the Yankees include an attractive piece to get a team to take Alex? Say Robbie Cano? Use him as bait to get the Marlins or Dodgers to take back Alex’s contract?

  150. Warning Track Power October 18th, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    If only Drew Henson was down in AAA, ready to take
    that 3rd base job!
    HAHAHA

  151. trisha - true pinstriped blue October 18th, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    Shame – I don’t mind that he was benched earlier, I won’t mind if he plays again before the postseason is over, and I don’t mind anyone being benched at this point if it helps the team.

    When you’re on the brink you do anything to shake things up. It bothers you fine. It doesn’t bother me.

    I don’t live in the past. I live in the present. What is, is. I really don’t give a rat when someone thinks something should have happened or when it shouldn’t have. This is the here and now.

    What I do know is that the Yankees were playing some small ball at one point in the season and scoring runs and that’s when they had people like Nix, Chavy, Nunez, Pearce, others who weren’t every-day players. I don’t think they all forgot how to hit, those who are still here. And they were effective. So why not.

    Again, if you think otherwise, go for it!

  152. blake October 18th, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    “50% or higher.”

    Wow….that’s a lot….half his contract is 13 million a year in AAV…..I wouldn’t need that much….but they shouldn’t trade him unless they are saving a significant amount of money

  153. Patrick October 18th, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    Chip,

    Ok you want to move A-rod like Boston moved Crawford? We are trading A-rod and Cano away and getting nothing back. Is that ok with you?

  154. jacksquat October 18th, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    Shame, I’ve already posted the reasoning for Chavez over Arod several times…

    Chavez far outperformed Arod vs rhp for the entire year. Also later in the year. He also had very good numbers vs Verlander. Arod had horrid numbers vs rhp in the last two weeks of the year and was 0-18 with 12 k’s vs rhp in the postseason. Chavez’ at bats vs rhp have looked better, he has driven the ball and struck out less.

    All logic points to Chavez starting.

    Now if people want to play favorites, fine, but don’t say it’s a bad decision, or that he is being treated unfairly. And remember that Arod was being pinch hit for a sat a start before this flirtgate crap was reported.

  155. trisha - true pinstriped blue October 18th, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    And “defeatist” is never a label I would think to put near my name Shame. A lot of labels, sure. Never defeatist.

    :)

  156. Jerkface October 18th, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    Boston was able to move Carl Crawford; Toronto was able to move Vernon Wells. Anything is possible.

    Yea boston was able to move Carl Crawford by including Adrian Gonzalez & Josh Beckett. All 3 can still be quality players (And A-gon is a quality player still) and Boston sent money over as well.

  157. mate October 18th, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    DONNYBROOK

    Deal Cano?

    This doesn’t make any sense at all.

  158. Shame Spencer October 18th, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    Nick – Trisha believes this is only baseball related, I believe otherwise to some extent. I was offering a baseball related reasons why it would make sense to keep him in the line up in a particular instance against a RHP. Mentioning the alternative hasn’t been any better goes without saying (and has been pointed out already).

    Look, I understand the school of thought re: Arod, Grandy, Swish, Cano that basically we can lose without you… but does anyone think we are going to win with a couple of those guys sitting every game of the series? It’s not really Joe’s style and if he were still playing those guys we’d have a number of people on the blog saying to those that were upset about it that they’ve been proven professionals and deserve the chance to work out of the slumps they’ve gotten in.

  159. chicken little October 18th, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    The Yankees need to stop getting offensive players who are nothing more than stop gaps — meaning, will give you a good year in 2013, but good luck in year two and three and four of the contract. That is how the Yanks got into this mess — lack of foresight as to what would happen when A-Rod, Tex, Swisher, Jeter, etc … all got old in year 3-4-5, etc … of the contracts. Its time to bite the bullet, and get younger guys who have a solid chance of getting the job done for 4-5 years.

  160. Against All Odds October 18th, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    Jerkface October 18th, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    How much salary relief would you need to move him? That’s what it boils down to…..

    50% or higher.

    ——————–

    Same exact thing I was thinking. Ppl are coming up with proposals where the Yankees pay most of it. If they do that then where is the relief?

  161. Hassey October 18th, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    A-Rod is now the Elephant Man

  162. Jerkface October 18th, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    Wow….that’s a lot….half his contract is 13 million a year in AAV…..I wouldn’t need that much….but they shouldn’t trade him unless they are saving a significant amount of money

    Unless its a payroll neutral move that also includes a very good player coming back there is no point to trading him. You’re being forced to fill his production for 6 million or less, and you’re still technically paying A-rod’s salary for whatever his replacement is. Its a losing proposition. Just keep A-rod unless you’re saving a lot of money or getting a premium piece back.

  163. Chip October 18th, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    blake October 18th, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    “50% or higher.”

    Wow….that’s a lot….half his contract is 13 million a year in AAV…..I wouldn’t need that much….but they shouldn’t trade him unless they are saving a significant amount of money
    —————

    Blake – so if Alex has what – $120 left on his deal vs. $50 for Wells – the difference is $70 M, Yankees kick back an additional $45 to the Angels. Everyone walks away miserable.

  164. Nick in SF October 18th, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    According to today’s Wall Street Journal, A Rod, a 4-year-old gelding, finished 7th in the 6th race at Belmont yesterday. There were eight horses in the race.

    Did the Puppetmasters deliberately name this crappy gelding after our Arod to embarrass him? Coincidence that this awful horse races during the ALCS and that this all somehow ends up in a newspaper?

  165. Sutliff October 18th, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    Being my very first post/comment on here, I am not intending to immediately ruffle any feathers, but with nearly every player on the roster being picked apart, how come no one seems to bring up R. Martin? Now I know he is a great defensive catcher, but he spent most of the season below .200, sometimes well-below that.

  166. blake October 18th, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    “Unless its a payroll neutral move that also includes a very good player coming back there is no point to trading him. You’re being forced to fill his production for 6 million or less, and you’re still technically paying A-rod’s salary for whatever his replacement is. Its a losing proposition. Just keep A-rod unless you’re saving a lot of money or getting a premium piece back.”

    I agree in general ….I just don’t think they need to save 50% to make dealing him worthwhile…..plus Im assuming if they trade him its not entirely for on field reasons

  167. CountryClub October 18th, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    Arod will have some value to the Yanks or someone else for the next season or two. After that he’ll be a disaster. trade him now when you hopefully can. Live with the fact that he may be productive next yr. It’s the trade off you make for him not being a 25 mil bench player for the last 3 years of his deal.

    Personally, I trade him regardless of how much they have to eat or what they get back.

  168. Jerkface October 18th, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    plus Im assuming if they trade him its not entirely for on field reasons

    Yea but who cares about off the field stuff? So what the front office doesnt like him? He can still play on the field.

  169. blake October 18th, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    “Blake – so if Alex has what – $120 left on his deal vs. $50 for Wells – the difference is $70 M, Yankees kick back an additional $45 to the Angels. Everyone walks away miserable.”

    Probably….but the Angels get a much better player and that’s the problem…..without knowing what the yanks can do with the money saved its hardto say what they should do

  170. blake October 18th, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    “Yea but who cares about off the field stuff? So what the front office doesnt like him? He can still play on the field.”

    The people who will make this decision

  171. Chip October 18th, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    Jerkface October 18th, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    Wow….that’s a lot….half his contract is 13 million a year in AAV…..I wouldn’t need that much….but they shouldn’t trade him unless they are saving a significant amount of money

    Unless its a payroll neutral move that also includes a very good player coming back there is no point to trading him. You’re being forced to fill his production for 6 million or less, and you’re still technically paying A-rod’s salary for whatever his replacement is. Its a losing proposition. Just keep A-rod unless you’re saving a lot of money or getting a premium piece back.
    ——————

    First of all – given Alex’s current production I think you could find that for $6M a year.

    Second – again it comes down to baseball issues vs. quality of life. Are the Yankees at a stage with Alex where getting rid of him is more important than what they get back for him?

  172. CountryClub October 18th, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    Sutliff October 18th, 2012 at 12:52 pm
    Being my very first post/comment on here, I am not intending to immediately ruffle any feathers, but with nearly every player on the roster being picked apart, how come no one seems to bring up R. Martin? Now I know he is a great defensive catcher, but he spent most of the season below .200, sometimes well-below that.

    ————-

    He took more than his fair share of abuse this season on this board. I think right now people arent concentrating on him because they’ve accepted him for what he is at the plate. They expect more, and rightfully so, out of Cano, Swisher, granderson, etc…

  173. Patrick October 18th, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    Sutliff,

    Probably because Martin hit well in September and is one of the only players to show a little life in the playoffs.

  174. CompassRosy October 18th, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    blake October 18th, 2012 at 12:25 pm
    The Angels would essentially get Alex for a 5/30 deal ……the Yanks would save 6 million a year…..I don’t know if it would be worth it though cause Wells is close to useless as a player now

    ~

    I was just reading some Angels fans thought on A-Rod…
    http://tinyurl.com/8wquh22

    ~

    One of my last and most endearing memories of A-Rod was as an innocent, young rookie consoling veteran Joey Cora on the bench after the M’s lost to the Tribe in the 1995 ALCS. That image has stuck with me after all these years, though much time and experience has passed. While there is no love lost on Alex, it is in part because of that memory I have a bit of empathy for him – and, while I never boo players, even if I had the inclination I wouldn’t. I hope he can find a spark to end his career on a high note, where ever that may be.

  175. blake October 18th, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    I’m not in favor of giving Alex away because they have nobody to replace him and I think it’s possible he could hit again…..but of this situation has reached a critical mass where he’s going to be unhappy an a distraction next year…..and they can save some money or get players back by trading them then they should be open minded about doing it…..

  176. Chip October 18th, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    Jerkface October 18th, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    plus Im assuming if they trade him its not entirely for on field reasons

    Yea but who cares about off the field stuff? So what the front office doesnt like him? He can still play on the field.
    ——————

    We’ve seen it before – a team will put up with a player as long as that player is at an elite level, but when that level drops (as Alex’s had) the team will move the player (see Ramirez, Manny). The Red Sox got more for Manny than people thought they would because they did a three team deal and took advantage of the Pirates salary dumping Jason Bay. But even if Bay had done nothing, Red Sox would’ve been happy.

  177. Shame Spencer October 18th, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    Nick in SF October 18th, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    According to today’s Wall Street Journal, A Rod, a 4-year-old gelding, finished 7th in the 6th race at Belmont yesterday. There were eight horses in the race.

    Did the Puppetmasters deliberately name this crappy gelding after our Arod to embarrass him? Coincidence that this awful horse races during the ALCS and that this all somehow ends up in a newspaper?

    —————–

    I actually just bought a lamp from Ikea called the ‘Aröd’………..not even gonna tell you how quickly that thing fell apart… CONSPIRACY!!

  178. Jerkface October 18th, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    A-rod has, potentially, 149 million left on his deal with the bonuses. 119 if you don’t include bonuses. 131 if you only include the one he is most likely to hit.

  179. blake October 18th, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    @DKnobler: Yankees lineup is just like was supposed to be last night: No A-Rod, no Granderson.

  180. Jerkface October 18th, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    The Manny Trade is nothing like any of these proposed A-rod deals. They didnt eat 100+ million to let him go.

  181. blake October 18th, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    Jerkface says:
    October 18, 2012 at 12:59 pm
    A-rod has, potentially, 149 million left on his deal with the bonuses. 119 if you don’t include bonuses. 131 if you only include the one he is most likely to hit.

    Right…..so you might be clearing more money than you think by moving him

  182. Tackelberry October 18th, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    Haven’t seen this many comments on 1 topic since the Montero trade

  183. Hassey October 18th, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    Rosy – No offense to you, I mean this very politely,

    but F the 1995 Mariners

  184. jacksquat October 18th, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    It’s definitely well over 50% the Yankees would have to pay, and that’s not counting the milestone bonuses, which I would not expect Arod would give up.

  185. Chip October 18th, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    jacksquat October 18th, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    It’s definitely well over 50% the Yankees would have to pay, and that’s not counting the milestone bonuses, which I would not expect Arod would give up.
    —————-

    Yeah but given his reduced production there’s very little chance of Alex hitting those anyway.

  186. Jerkface October 18th, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    Right…..so you might be clearing more money than you think by moving him

    No team is paying 70+ million for A-rod.

  187. Shame Spencer October 18th, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    I just can’t imagine them doing all this and having Arod back next year…

    And squat – I know that Chavez has better numbers vs RHP this season but I thought this was about the here and now lol, Chavez hasn’t been hitting well for about a month and a half and actually cost us a crucial run in his last start. Historically, Arod is a better hitter. Now, I realize that isn’t the argument, but I feel the need to just say it since both suck right now.

  188. Jerkface October 18th, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    Yeah but given his reduced production there’s very little chance of Alex hitting those anyway.

    Unless he retires its almost guaranteed he will hit his first 2.

  189. CompassRosy October 18th, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    Hassey ~

    :)

    and, on an OT note…
    here’s hoping (likely against hope) that the 49′ers have a similar thought about the ’12 Seahawks after this evening ;)

  190. dan l October 18th, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    All that matters with Alex is that the Yankees carry the biggest hammer. They can continue the embarrass him by sitting him on the bench and not playing him. The team can not be forced to play a player. So the bonuses mean nothing if he does not play.

  191. blake October 18th, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    “No team is paying 70+ million for A-rod.”

    Didn’t say that….the bonuses aren’t guaranteed….he may not get there.

  192. Nick in SF October 18th, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    “I was offering a baseball related reasons why it would make sense to keep him in the line up in a particular instance against a RHP.”

    I don’t think Arod’s historical OPS vs. Justin Verlander is a compelling reason to play him vs. RHP in this particular series when they have to win a game to get a chance to have to win another game to get a chance to advance. If it’s mid-July, sure, because the rewards of getting Arod going again might be worth crappy at-bats for a game. Not today.

    “Mentioning the alternative hasn’t been any better goes without saying”

    And it should keep going without saying, because that’s even weaker. There are no guarantees in baseball that the person with the better statistical chance to succeed in a given situation will actually do so. Might as well roll with Arod if Chavez has zero chance to get a hit either, except that’s only known in hindsight, not in foresight.

    “if he were still playing those guys we’d have a number of people on the blog saying to those that were upset about it that they’ve been proven professionals and deserve the chance to work out of the slumps they’ve gotten in.”

    That people, both named and unnamed, say hypocritical and contradictory things doesn’t change the facts on the ground in Detroit. Bottom line: just win a game.

  193. RMS October 18th, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    Alex should have never been benched. He is the one that should have been given the chance to step up and carry this team. Chavez has done 0.
    What Cashman/Girardi did, in my opinion was destroy his career in NY. He will never be looked at the same by the fans who weren’t to crazy about him before all this. Cashman has disrespected him as he has disrespected Jeter and Posada in the past.

  194. UnKnown October 18th, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    Getting that nervous excited feeling for the game today. #wintoseetomorrow

  195. Chip October 18th, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    Jerkface October 18th, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    Yeah but given his reduced production there’s very little chance of Alex hitting those anyway.

    Unless he retires its almost guaranteed he will hit his first 2.
    ——————–

    Which is another option. Like I said, if the Yankees turn to Alex this winter and tell him that going forward his role will be similar to Andruw Jones’s role – platoon DH/3b against LHP – that he will never get enough at bats to set the HR record and that they can’t trade him because no one will take on his salary. Does he walk away?

  196. Jerkface October 18th, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    Didn’t say that….the bonuses aren’t guaranteed….he may not get there.

    Well he is definitely hitting 1. Being that he is only 13 HR away. And he is pretty much going to hit the 2nd, because he would only need to hit 13 HR a year for the rest of his career to do it.

    Just rewrite my statement to ‘no team is paying 60+ million’ for A-rod and its the same thing.

  197. Kerry October 18th, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    If and only if we trade Arod to Miami.. we should eat most if not all of the $$ and get some positional player prospects back.

  198. blake October 18th, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    Yanks win 5-2 today……I said 4-2 last night.

  199. blake October 18th, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    “Just rewrite my statement to ‘no team is paying 60+ million’ for A-rod and its the same thing.”

    I don’t think they’d have to…..the Yanks would eat more than that…..

  200. Shame Spencer October 18th, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    Nick – Like I said to jacksquat, when I have two hitters doing absolutely nothing, I’ll go with the one that is historically a better hitter.

    That’s just how I feel about it. *shrugs*

    And I was having this discussion with trisha specifically so what posters saying hypocritically or contradictory was relevant to our discussion. IMO.

  201. DONNYBROOK October 18th, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    You Stat Heads just can Not wrap your brain around the fact Hal can Not even look at A-Rod. A-Rod will be DUMPED. What the Yanks get in return players is immaterial to Hal. Cashman has Already been given his marching orders and is Now in the process of fielding offers. It’s gonna happen.

  202. Chip October 18th, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    For the record – I think Alex will finish out his contract with the Yankees. But there’s no harm in the power of positive thinking.

  203. Patrick October 18th, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    Donny, wanna bet? A-rod will be in the Yankee starting lineup on opening day 2013.

  204. Jerkface October 18th, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    I don’t think they’d have to…..the Yanks would eat more than that…..

    Then its not worth it. Look if your argument is that the YAnkees are stupid, fine, but if your argument is that the Yankees will eat more AND its the right move, then I disagree vehemently.

  205. DONNYBROOK October 18th, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    Your Way off on this one Chipper.

  206. DONNYBROOK October 18th, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    I avoid betting on things I am Not actively involved in. Maybe we can get you into a Fantasy League I am currently Dominating?

  207. blake October 18th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    “Then its not worth it. Look if your argument is that the YAnkees are stupid, fine, but if your argument is that the Yankees will eat more AND its the right move, then I disagree vehemently.”

    I think it depends….depends on how much $ ….depends on what players they’d get back….. An depends on just how bad things are between Alex and the club behind the scenes…..

    This is one of those things that’s hard to judge without knowing specifics

  208. DONNYBROOK October 18th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    In an effort to spur the A-Rod trade, the Yanks have employed their Big Bertha\Joel Sherman.

  209. DONNYBROOK October 18th, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    You guys throw $$$ numbers around, players, positions, but dealing A-Rod has Nothing to do with Any of that. It is personal with Hal at this point.

  210. Jerkface October 18th, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    An depends on just how bad things are between Alex and the club behind the scenes…..

    You can say that the Yankees want to trade him for behind the scenes stuff, but if you’re actually agreeing with them based on this statement then why? HAL doesn’t have to talk to the players. Cashman doesnt have to talk to A-rod.

    And considering all the rumors thus far have the Yankees losing heavily in the money saved & players brought back department, I think the conclusion is that the Yankees either aren’t going to trade him or they are going to make a stupid deal.

    Toronto trading Vernon Wells was amazing, the Yankees would essentially be doing a reverse-Vernon Wells trade where they shed the player without shedding the reason for wanting to trade the player.

  211. Nick in SF October 18th, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    Shame, I missed the intro, so forgive me if it looks like I’m defending someone else’s POV; the thing about Arod’s ops vs. Justin Verlander is what caught my eye and that’s what I’ve been riffing off of.

    As for going with the historically better player, recent history matters too unless the back of Arod’s baseball card can show up at Comerica today instead of the current Arod that hasn’t hit vs. RHP since King Felix broke his hand.

    If you can guarantee that Chavez won’t get a hit today and won’t make any defensive plays that Arod wouldn’t also make, I will back you in playing Arod today. Or, if you can guarantee that the Yanks will win today no matter who’s playing at 3rd base, I’ll also back you in playing Arod today because I do believe that getting him more at-bats would help him in potential future games. But the future is now.

  212. NYY_Girl_Penny October 18th, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    mate October 18th, 2012 at 12:49 pm
    DONNYBROOK

    Deal Cano?

    This doesn’t make any sense at all.

    ——-

    Forget Cano, he is totally overrated. His splits are embarrassing.. and I could careless if he was on our time or not diving for wiffle balls in the DR. I’d offer him 3-4 yrs tops otherwise cya and dont let the door hitcha.

  213. Nick in SF October 18th, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    Future geldings? :arrow:

  214. Shame Spencer October 18th, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    Nick – I’m talkin to you over here :arrow:

  215. MoRings42 October 18th, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    I’m not even an Arod defender and am sick to death of the Arod drama. Most of it is BS and he’s right, there is blood in the water and the sharks are circling.

    He may not be the same player, the guy we signed, or worth that contract but he’s still useful and I wouldn’t just give ‘em away. That makes no sense. He’s capable of being a .280 25-30 HR and a .350+ Obp. It’s down but it’s still better than over half of our team

  216. Dill Pickler October 18th, 2012 at 3:12 pm

    Cashman doing his best impression of an ostrich.

    Hey “Cash,” you’ve obviously forgotten the 2010 and 2011 postseasons, but they were the same as this one, without the Ibanez heroics. Pretty much the same guys choking. How many times do you need to see the same movie before you figure out there’s something wrong and make changes????


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