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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


How to rebuild a lineup, Giants style

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Oct 25, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

I don’t think it’s going to happen, but if the Yankees are going to follow the wishes of some corners of their fan base and completely blow up their lineup this winter, they could use the Giants as a guide. Last night, the Giants used a World Series Game 1 lineup that was vastly different from their Game 1 lineup from 2010. In a span of two years, the Giants managed to reassemble their offense almost completely.

2010
Andres Torres CF
Freddy Sanchez 2B
Buster Posey C
Pat Burrell LF
Cody Ross RF
Aubrey Huff 1B
Juan Uribe 3B
Edgar Renteria SS

2012
Angel Pagan CF
Marco Scutaro 2B
Pablo Sandoval 3B
Buster Posey C
Hunter Pence RF
Brandon Belt 1B
Gregor Blanco LF
Brandon Crawford SS

How did the Giants do it?

Build around an elite young player
Not all of these players are new to the roster — more on that in a bit — but the one constant in the lineup is young catcher Buster Posey. The Giants have built their offense around him. The Yankees don’t have a regular position player as young as Posey. The closest thing they have is Robinson Cano, another all-around hitter to keep in the middle of the order.

Don’t give up on a bad year
Pablo Sandoval was on the Giants roster in 2010, but he was out of the lineup because his season numbers were diappointing, especially down the stretch. Sandoval’s star seemed to be dimming quickly, but the Giants held onto him and he’s rebounded in a big way with back-to-back all-star nods. Again, there’s no perfect comparison for the Yankees — not with that combination of youth and performance — but the Yankees did bench Alex Rodriguez this postseason, and unless they can find someone to take on his contract, they might have no choice but to give him another chance.

Open the door to young talent
Edgar Renteria, Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell were the oldest players in that 2010 lineup. Two of them — Renteria and Huff — have since been replaced by the two youngest players in the 2012 lineup. Brandon Crawford was the Giants fourth-round pick in 2008. Brandon Belt was their fifth-round pick in 2009. Who did the Yankees draft those years? David Adams and Corban Joseph in 2008; Slade Heathcott and J.R. Murphy in 2009.

Don’t do it all at once
Huff and Freddy Sanchez are still on the Giants roster, but Sanchez hasn’t been healthy and Huff hasn’t hit enough to see regular time in the outfield corners (he was their Opening Day left fielder this year). Instead, the Giants had had to adjust over time. They made mid-season trades this year to put Hunter Pence in right and Marco Scutaro at second. For the Yankees, a complete overhaul would be next to impossible this season, and they have little choice but to wait and see how Derek Jeter and Mark Teixeira respond in the coming years. Right now, the Yankees can’t say for certain what their holes will be two years from now.

Have backups ready (and be willing to use them)
Gregor Blanco wasn’t supposed to be in the mix. He was a backup when the season started, gradually won some more playing time, then became a regular after Melky Cabrera was suspended. The Giants also have Xavier Nady to hit against left-handers. The Yankees were willing to stick with backups for extended periods of time this season — especially Eric Chavez at third — but the most similar Blanco comparison might be Chris Dickerson. Hard to imagine the Yankees would start next season with him as an everyday player, but he’s the kind of guy who could get some platoon starts with a chance to stay that way.

Make smart moves
This one probably speaks for itself, but look at that lineup from 2010. Is there any way that group could get the Giants to the postseason this year? The Giants let Juan Uribe walk away at the end of 2010. They let Cody Ross walk away at the end of 2011. This winter, they swapped Andres Torres (and reliever Ramon Ramirez) for Angel Pagan, who earned just a little less than the other two combined but easily outperformed Torres as the Giants leadoff hitter. It wasn’t a blockbuster, but it was effective. Might be a good place for the Yankees to start.

Associated Press photos

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199 Responses to “How to rebuild a lineup, Giants style”

  1. jacksquat October 25th, 2012 at 3:11 pm

    Granderson is not one dimensional. Great power, good defense, very good baserunning speed, ability to steal bases, very durable, and a model citizen.

    On top of that, a one year contract has value because of it’s low risk.

  2. DONNYBROOK October 25th, 2012 at 3:13 pm

    The Glaring part missing from Chad’s piece above, is the $$$ the Giants have shelled out to keep the rotation intact. Minus the Chuckers, that reboot on offense woulda gone down in flames. Also, it is easier to win the NL West than the AL East, meaning the Giants can gamble on youth and still have a decent shot at winning their Division.

  3. DONNYBROOK October 25th, 2012 at 3:16 pm

    Your giving up numerous years of control on a Top Young Player, vs 1 yr of Grandy, and That is a Plus???? NO WAY

  4. theREALkevin October 25th, 2012 at 3:20 pm

    “Granderson is not one dimensional. Great power, good defense, very good baserunning speed, ability to steal bases, very durable, and a model citizen.”

    Granderson stole 10 bases this year. 10. And only 12 two years before that. Stealing bases is not a big part of his game. His defense is also not good. It’s average to below average.

    I’m not saying other teams wouldn’t be interested in acquiring him. Hits a lot of homers and he’s not a DH type. So that’s good. But he also K’s a ton and has the flaws I just mentioned above. So I don’t think they could get a ton for him. But every team has their own opinion. So we’ll see what happens, if anything.

  5. Jerkface October 25th, 2012 at 3:23 pm

    Granderson does not have the base stealing portion of base running, but he has the speed & canny base running on the other end. He could also steal bases if he applied himself. He did steal 25 bags last year.

  6. blake October 25th, 2012 at 3:27 pm

    Granderson could bring a good prospect in the right situation and to the right team…..a contending team that needs outfield help and who has players that are blocked to spare for example.

  7. blake October 25th, 2012 at 3:27 pm

    The Braves and Giants could also have interest in Granderson Id imagine…..

  8. Patrick October 25th, 2012 at 3:33 pm

    He was barely worth $12mil this year (FA replacement dollars), I don’t think the market for him is as big as you think.

    Yeah but in 2011 he was worth $31.7 million (according to Fangraphs).. so something in between is pretty likely.

  9. DONNYBROOK October 25th, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    Aprreciate The Kelly Blue Book appraisal of Grandy, but it is Worthless. The “canny base runner” stuff is also “in the eye of the beholder” = puffery.

  10. theREALkevin October 25th, 2012 at 3:38 pm

    Ya and he could probably steal more bases if he didn’t K or homer every at bat. I mean, u do have to be on 1st to be able to steal second. Seriously tho he actually does walk a decent amount so I wish he would try to steal more often when he has an opportunity. The problem is that he’s now on the wrong side of 30 (32 next season) so if anything his speed is going to start declining soon

  11. DaSaint007 October 25th, 2012 at 3:42 pm

    Granderson could be a 40/40 player if he had more plate discipline. Or a 30/30 player. Either would be fine with me, but he has to start taking more pitches and being more selective. That said, there’s no way we make it to the playoffs without the contribution of his numbers.

    Compare that with ARod. It’s almost unimaginable that ARod coudl have fewer HR and RBI than Granderson. Hopefully, next year will feature a return to the once-feared hitter that used to get pitched around when ARod was ARod.

  12. Shame Spencer October 25th, 2012 at 3:43 pm

    Puffery!!

  13. Shame Spencer October 25th, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    I thought Granderson had an okay walk rate… or was that last year?

  14. Frankg October 25th, 2012 at 3:46 pm

    Big diffence between Yankees and Giants is that the Giants play with spirit and look like they are enjoying the experience, the Yankees with a few exceptions look like dead men walking. If IBM had a baseball team, it would like the Yankees.

  15. Irreverent Discourse October 25th, 2012 at 3:47 pm

    Granderson’s walk rate is only OK if he doesn’t bat under .260

    Basically, keeping his OBP over .360…

  16. Irreverent Discourse October 25th, 2012 at 3:52 pm

    Build around an Elite young player – Cano

    Don’t give up on a bad year – Jeter, Arod, Teixeira, Swisher to some extent, all qualify…

    Open the door to young talent – Other than Cano and Gardner (can’t account for injuries) this is a whiff on the Yankees part…

    Don’t do it all at once – I don’t get this section… the Yankees are constantly rotating players in and out of their lineups year to year. They did so exceedingly efficiently this year with Ibanez/Chavez/Jones et al.

    Have backups ready – The Yankees employ the most expensive backups in the league, and got an insane amount of production from them all season.

    Make smart moves – OK, this is where we stop pretending that the Giants offense is any good, and had anything to do with the success of this team. This team is built around run prevention, and their “strategy” in lineup building NOT to be replicated.

  17. Patrick October 25th, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    Don’t give up on a bad year – Jeter, Arod, Teixeira, Swisher to some extent, all qualify…

    Jeter and Swisher had fine years …

  18. blake October 25th, 2012 at 3:56 pm

    Jeter had a bad year?

  19. Irreverent Discourse October 25th, 2012 at 3:56 pm

    The Giants real “lineup” strategy… in order of effectiveness.

    Play in the NL West.
    Stack young talented pitching.
    Get lucky when normally ineffective players like Cody Ross and Marco Scutaro go ballistic in the playoffs.
    Conveniently forget that 2011, 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005… etc… ever happened.

  20. Irreverent Discourse October 25th, 2012 at 3:58 pm

    patrick they have all had bad years, or parts of years in the past 3 years though

    The same year that Chad is talking about in his section with Pandoval (yeah that’s right) in 2010.

  21. blake October 25th, 2012 at 4:00 pm

    I don’t think the Yankees should build a giants lineup…..I think they should build Yankees quality offense….

  22. NYYROC October 25th, 2012 at 4:01 pm

    Cano is not exactly old (30) but he’s not young either. Posey is 25, Only on the yankees could 30 be considered young.

  23. Patrick October 25th, 2012 at 4:01 pm

    ID,

    Ah I see what you mean. I thought you were just referring to how the Yankees can rebuild after this season.

    Also, the Giants definitely don’t have a good offensive team, I think the point is that they have done a good job rebuilding the lineup in a relatively short period of time.

  24. ac1 October 25th, 2012 at 4:04 pm

    should be speed (gardner and ichiro, nunez) and power (tex) (cano/grandy/alex if they arent traded)

  25. blake October 25th, 2012 at 4:09 pm

    @AndrewMarchand: Sources: Rivera having thoughts of retirement http://t.co/sySoWKUd Still probable he will return

  26. Irreverent Discourse October 25th, 2012 at 4:13 pm

    @AndrewMarchand Sources: None.

    This guy is the only person i hate more than Heyman in terms of being a credible journalist.

  27. Patrick October 25th, 2012 at 4:18 pm

    @AndrewMarchand Sources: None.

    This guy is the only person i hate more than Heyman in terms of being a credible journalist.

    Ouch, harsh.

    But yeah, Marchand is a hack

  28. Shame Spencer October 25th, 2012 at 4:21 pm

    blake October 25th, 2012 at 4:09 pm

    @AndrewMarchand: Sources: Rivera having thoughts of retirement http://t.co/sySoWKUd Still probable he will return

    —————–

    TAKE ‘EM TO THE BANK MO!!!!

  29. Shame Spencer October 25th, 2012 at 4:22 pm

    Mo’s just flirting with retirement because he knows Soriano is gonna opt out lol… I love Mo. I hope he makes them pay him in gold bricks.

  30. Yankee Trader October 25th, 2012 at 4:24 pm

    Why the Yankees should be in no hurry to give Ribinson Cano an extension:

    From RAB’s a short while ago:

    “The Yankees as a team suffered through (sometimes extreme) bouts of RISPFAIL, and Cano was public enemy number one. He hit a robust .320/.391/.571 with men on second and/or third from 2010-2011, but slid down to .268/.393/.436 in 2012. That doesn’t seem all that bad and it really isn’t, but prior to his insane 24-for-39 finish to the season, he’d hit a much more pedestrian .239/.374/.373 with runners in scoring position. Robbie was still getting on-base, but ten of his 30 walks in those situations were intentional and he simply wasn’t getting hits. That’s what Cano does, he piles up hits.”

    “I think we can all understand the limited analytical value of RBI, though it was telling that Cano was unable to crack the 100 RBI plateau even though he set career bests in almost every other offensive category. He just didn’t hit when there were ducks on the pond. Instead of plating runner after runner, he was stranding them. Considering that he was the team’s only middle of the order bat to stay healthy all season, Cano’s inability to hit with runners in scoring position was a big negative in 2012.”

    Rest of article:

    http://riveraveblues.com/2012/.....its-78197/

    Still want the Yankees to grant him an 8 year extension this offseason?

  31. Patrick October 25th, 2012 at 4:29 pm

    If the Yankees can extend Cano for like 6 years I’d be happy with that. If he wants more I’d let him hit free agency..

  32. blake October 25th, 2012 at 4:30 pm

    “Still want the Yankees to grant him an 8 year extension this offseason?”

    Depends on the money and depends on if that 8 year deal includes 2013 or not.

  33. blake October 25th, 2012 at 4:32 pm

    Id like to do a 6 year deal added on to Cano’s 2013 option …..I think that’s fair for both sides…..

    I would not extend him early for more than that…..

  34. Jerkface October 25th, 2012 at 4:33 pm

    Still want the Yankees to grant him an 8 year extension this offseason?

    There is also the huge discrepancy between his batting runs & RE24 numbers I pointed out a week ago. He may provide as a little as half the actual value you’d expect from his batting line

  35. mick October 25th, 2012 at 4:37 pm

    Using the worst case scenario who will replace Cano?

  36. Yankee Trader October 25th, 2012 at 4:40 pm

    I’d like to see if Cano rebounds vs lefties this coming season before tying up years and money for a Scott Boras client.. Will Boras have a 300 page dossier on why Robinson Cano will go in the history books as the greatest 2nd baseman of all time?

  37. Irreverent Discourse October 25th, 2012 at 4:40 pm

    Yes, because RISP splits are not really that useful. They are simply looking at a smaller piece of the puzzle.

  38. Irreverent Discourse October 25th, 2012 at 4:42 pm

    I’m sure Marco Scutaro will be available though, and since he’s a proven winner…

  39. Yankee Trader October 25th, 2012 at 4:43 pm

    JF-

    Thanks for your input on the RABs article.

    I would at least field calls from any interested teams and wait a while before engaging Boras about an extension.

  40. tomingeorgia October 25th, 2012 at 4:47 pm

    Yankee Trader October 25th, 2012 at 4:40 pm
    I’d like to see if Cano rebounds vs lefties this coming season before tying up years and money for a Scott Boras client.. Will Boras have a 300 page dossier on why Robinson Cano will go in the history books as the greatest 2nd baseman of all time?
    ——-
    Of course Boras will. Question is, can Cano do it three or four more years to prove him right? Somehow, I feel that is a long shot. It isn’t my money, so place your bets and I’ll hold your coats.

  41. Yankee Trader October 25th, 2012 at 4:48 pm

    New Post—————->

  42. Hassey October 26th, 2012 at 9:39 am

    don’t know if Grandy is blind, but I bet that by the end of the year he wished he was deaf

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