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Otani drafted in Japan

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Oct 25, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Japanese high school standout Shohei Otani was drafted this morning by the Nippon Ham Fighters, which means he won’t be able to sign with a Major League team until April. Nippon Ham will have exclusive rights to him through March. That said, Otani has told The Associated Press that he still plans to play in America next year. Here’s the AP story.

TOKYO (AP) — Japanese high school pitcher Shohei Otani says he will stick to his plan of joining a team in Major League Baseball despite being selected in the first round of Japanese baseball’s amateur draft.

Otani, who has thrown a fastball 99 and 100 mph, has been scouted by several teams, including the Los Angeles Dodgers and Boston Red Sox.

The Nippon Ham Fighters, Yu Darvish’s former team, chose Otani in the first round of Thursday’s draft even though the 6-foot-4 right-hander had already said he plans to pursue a career in the major leagues.

The 18-year-old Otani says “My feelings haven’t changed. I’m grateful that they appreciate me, but it doesn’t change my desire to play in America.”

Associated Press photo via Kyodo News

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146 Responses to “Otani drafted in Japan”

  1. Tyler October 25th, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    Tyler October 25th, 2012 at 12:09 pm
    blake October 25th, 2012 at 12:06 pm
    I would trade Cano for Kemp…..kemp is two years younger and has the type contract that you’d hope you could get with cano….I don’t think the Dodgers would do that though as Kemp is locked up and Cano is not
    ——————————————————-

    I don’t think they would either just because it would be kind of unnecessary to make that trade but it’s going to be interesting to see if Kemp eventually has to switch positions… I wonder if he can continue to stay healthy playing center or will eventually have to move to a corner where they already have Crawford and Ethier.

  2. Jerkface October 25th, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    Well we saw the Red Sox show little regard about a “gentleman’s agreement” when they got Tazawa right?

    Tazawa went undrafted, as he said he wanted to play in the MLB, and then went to play in the industrial league (pro-am league). The Yankees agreed not to pursue because of their partnership with Yomiuri. The Red Sox eventually signed him out of the industrial league. So it is a bit similar and a bit different with Otani.

    In response to Tazawa the NPB passed a ruling that anyone who signs with a MLB club before playing in the NPB has to sit out 2-3 years before joining an NPB club if they wanted to. 2 years for HS players, 3 years for college/corporate team players.

  3. Tyler October 25th, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    Tazawa went undrafted, as he said he wanted to play in the MLB, and then went to play in the industrial league (pro-am league). The Yankees agreed not to pursue because of their partnership with Yomiuri. The Red Sox eventually signed him out of the industrial league. So it is a bit similar and a bit different with Otani.

    In response to Tazawa the NPB passed a ruling that anyone who signs with a MLB club before playing in the NPB has to sit out 2-3 years before joining an NPB club if they wanted to. 2 years for HS players, 3 years for college/corporate team players.
    ———————————————————-

    I just remember there being some level of objection to the Sox signing an amateur from Japan. You’re obviously much more familiar with Japanese baseball than me but wouldn’t anyone who signs with a MLB club really not have much interest in playing in the NPB anyway? At least at that period of time? What does that 2-3 year period actually do to change a players decision-making process, if that makes sense?

  4. Tyler October 25th, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    And my Statue of Liberty for Posey offer still stands…. There’s some serious upside there for San Fran.

  5. Jerkface October 25th, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    What does that 2-3 year period actually do to change a players decision-making process, if that makes sense?

    Well it means if they wash out of the majors they have to sit out 2 – 3 years before being allowed to play in the NPB. By that I mean they literally cannot play baseball for 2-3 years. Maybe they can play indy ball in Japan like the industrial league or a corporate team, but they can’t play in the MLB or NPB for a 2-3 period. Thats a long time in a career. Kind of sucks.

    Players & some teams want to change the rules, to reduce the team control in the NPB & make things more attractive to players.

  6. Jerkface October 25th, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    And you are right there was some objection to the Sox signing him, the NPB said there was an agreement, but MLB said it did not apply in that case. Some teams went out on principal (the Yankees).

  7. austinmac October 25th, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    I very much doubt the Yankees would sign Otani usign the gentlemen’s agreement as justification. The reality is they do not spend heavily on international players anymore. I wold bet the Rangers sign him. They do spend heavily, and it is no coincidence they have the strongest minor league system around.

    Hal will spend heavily on a good race horse, however. That risk is acceptable.

  8. Jerkface October 25th, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    The bad news for everyone regarding Otani is that the Rangers have around 2.5 million left in their IFA budget because they cannily got Beras to count under the old rules & only signed a few guys this summer. Sounds like they were waiting for someone…

  9. Tyler October 25th, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    Well it means if they wash out of the majors they have to sit out 2 – 3 years before being allowed to play in the NPB. By that I mean they literally cannot play baseball for 2-3 years. Maybe they can play indy ball in Japan like the industrial league or a corporate team, but they can’t play in the MLB or NPB for a 2-3 period. Thats a long time in a career. Kind of sucks.

    Players & some teams want to change the rules, to reduce the team control in the NPB & make things more attractive to players.
    ——————————————————–

    That makes sense. Ii is a pretty harsh punishment for leaving to go play in MLB. Japanese baseball is a very different world than here.

  10. 86w183 October 25th, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    It’s funny… three years ago I suggested a Cano/Kemp swap before either was a superstar and I took at lot of grief for “trying to dump Cano”, which was ridiculous.

    I saw it as a better fit personnel wise because of the dearth of OF in the Yankees system and thought Torre would like Cano.

    It’s still a deal that has some merit.

    Kemp would be better off in RF and the Yanks can sure use one. If the Dodgers wont do that, maybe a lesser deal for Puig who is now signed for a lot of $$$$ in an overcrowded OF for the foreseeable future.

  11. Tyler October 25th, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    My biggest fear with the Yankees is that I don’t see in what to areas the team is going to compensate for reducing down to $189 million. 189 is misleading because so much money is tied up in a few players. If the Yanks are on a “budget” now, they have to compensate by really scouting and drafting well. Hopefully they will but the IFA market seems like a good place to load up. Instead, Texas is killing the Yanks there right now.

  12. RadioKev October 25th, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    Man, an eight year extension would be tough. Who knows if there will even be blogs to complain about Cano’s contract in eight years.

  13. Tyler October 25th, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    86w183 October 25th, 2012 at 12:26 pm
    It’s funny… three years ago I suggested a Cano/Kemp swap before either was a superstar and I took at lot of grief for “trying to dump Cano”, which was ridiculous.

    I saw it as a better fit personnel wise because of the dearth of OF in the Yankees system and thought Torre would like Cano.

    It’s still a deal that has some merit.

    Kemp would be better off in RF and the Yanks can sure use one. If the Dodgers wont do that, maybe a lesser deal for Puig who is now signed for a lot of $$$$ in an overcrowded OF for the foreseeable future.
    —————————————————————–

    The biggest thing that I’ve always had with the trade is that you really never see teams swap superstar for superstar like that. Kemp greatly improves center/right but trading Cano greatly weakens 2nd. It’s the same for the Dodgers. It could work but just not realistic at all in my opinion

  14. RadioKev October 25th, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    86w183 October 25th, 2012 at 12:26 pm
    It’s funny… three years ago I suggested a Cano/Kemp swap before either was a superstar and I took at lot of grief for “trying to dump Cano”, which was ridiculous.

    I saw it as a better fit personnel wise because of the dearth of OF in the Yankees system and thought Torre would like Cano.

    It’s still a deal that has some merit.

    Kemp would be better off in RF and the Yanks can sure use one. If the Dodgers wont do that, maybe a lesser deal for Puig who is now signed for a lot of $$$$ in an overcrowded OF for the foreseeable future.
    ———-

    Cano has a better WAR over the past three years.

  15. Against All Odds October 25th, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    now, they have to compensate by really scouting and drafting well.

    —————————–

    We’re doomed smh :(

  16. Tyler October 25th, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    Against-

    I think they can do it but $189 million seems pretty misleading to me. Just look at how much of that is invested in just a couple players (A-Rod, Tex, CC)…. they are going to get young/cheap guys contributing in different roles for the time being. I think they’ve drafted pretty well recently…. the Culver pick looks terrible right now but hopefully the lower minors guys keep moving up.

  17. blake October 25th, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    blake says:
    October 25, 2012 at 12:17 pm
    It’d be cool to have Rendon, Austin, Williams , Sanchez, Hearhcott , etc all in the upper levels and knocking on the door…..that’d be exciting…..and think what kind of pitchers they might could trade them all for!

  18. RadioKev October 25th, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    If the Culver/Bichette Jr. picks don’t work out…someone will have to respond to the questions. Busting on the dark horse picks never look good.

    At least Heathcott is legitimate, even if he doesn’t fully pan out.

  19. blake October 25th, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    Cano is two years older and isn’t signed….Kemp is signed to a relatively reasonable deal when you consider his ability…..going forward with what we know now Id rather have Kemp

  20. Tyler October 25th, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    blake October 25th, 2012 at 12:37 pm
    Cano is two years older and isn’t signed….Kemp is signed to a relatively reasonable deal when you consider his ability…..going forward with what we know now Id rather have Kemp
    ——————————————————

    So would the Dodgers lol.

  21. Jerkface October 25th, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    Kemp wasn’t signed when people were advocating trading for him though. The team would have had to do that.

  22. Against All Odds October 25th, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    Tyler October 25th, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    Against-

    I think they can do it but $189 million seems pretty misleading to me. Just look at how much of that is invested in just a couple players (A-Rod, Tex, CC)…. they are going to get young/cheap guys contributing in different roles for the time being. I think they’ve drafted pretty well recently…. the Culver pick looks terrible right now but hopefully the lower minors guys keep moving up.

    ——————–

    The Culver pick was an extreme over reach smh.

  23. Tyler October 25th, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    If the Culver/Bichette Jr. picks don’t work out…someone will have to respond to the questions. Busting on the dark horse picks never look good.
    ———————————————————————-

    I think the biggest problem with Culver (and he still has time to pan out… he’s far from done) is that he probably would have been available a couple rounds later at worst. Going 1st round on him was probably too early…. the Yanks must have really liked what they saw which is good enough for me but I don’t think that’s a good value pick at all…

  24. blake October 25th, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    “So would the Dodgers lol”

    Correct

  25. blake October 25th, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    Jerkface says:
    October 25, 2012 at 12:40 pm
    Kemp wasn’t signed when people were advocating trading for him though. The team would have had to do that.

    Right…. I’m just talking about right now though

  26. Shame Spencer October 25th, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    Not that anyone was suggesting it seriously but the Dodgers wouldnt need to trade Kemp for Cano because that right there, my friends, is a team committed to signing ALL the players… I still think the Dodgers will go hard for him if he’s an FA.

    I’m sure other teams would too but I think theyd be the other major player.

  27. 86w183 October 25th, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    Cano has a better WAR over the past three years.

    *********************************************

    And the list of people that care is rather short. I would never factor such a strange stat into making a transaction.

    Scott Rolen has 30 % more WAR than Mariano Rivera.Placido Polnco has more career WAR than David Ortiz, Robinson Cano and Joe Mauer.

  28. Shame Spencer October 25th, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    Texas has Kinsler, right? ..I wonder if they’d be players after 2013 for Cano.

  29. RadioKev October 25th, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    86w183,

    Well that’s just a total misuse of WAR, but OK. Sure thing, there.

    I’m only making the point that Cano has done more for the Yankees thus far, than Kemp has done for the Dodgers.

    Going forward, who knows? Right now it’s nothing to lament.

  30. Tyler October 25th, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    Shame Spencer October 25th, 2012 at 12:43 pm
    Texas has Kinsler, right? ..I wonder if they’d be players after 2013 for Cano.
    ———————————————————————

    Kinsler is signed until 2017 so he’d have to be either traded or moved to the outfield. He’s not that great defensively so moving him from 2nd wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world for Texas…

  31. Against All Odds October 25th, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    the Yanks must have really liked what they saw which is good enough for me but I don’t think that’s a good value pick at all…

    ———————–

    The Yanks always thought he would get picked in they didn’t pick him at that spot.

  32. blake October 25th, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    Shame Spencer says:
    October 25, 2012 at 12:43 pm
    Texas has Kinsler, right? ..I wonder if they’d be players after 2013 for Cano.

    Maybe but right now I would think no…. They have Kinsler signed and Profar can also play 2b….the dodgers absolutely though

  33. Tyler October 25th, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    Scott Rolen has 30 % more WAR than Mariano Rivera
    —————————————————————

    Can’t compare a 3rd baseman to a closer in terms of WAR…..

  34. blake October 25th, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    @YankeeSource: The Yankees should be aggressive on Ryu Hyun Jin if/when he is posted. Has the makeup to be a good pitcher in the NY atmosphere.

  35. Jerkface October 25th, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    Scott Rolen has 30 % more WAR than Mariano Rivera.Placido Polnco has more career WAR than David Ortiz, Robinson Cano and Joe Mauer.

    Well your take down of the stat doesn’t make much sense. WAR is a counting stat, not a rate stat. Polanco has 4 more career WAR than Cano, true. Cano also has 7 less seasons than Polanco. So in reality, if you’re looking at it in context, Cano must be more valuable than Polanco.

    Now a better tact would be to say that Kemp from 09 to 2012 (the period we would have swapped players) is about 7 WAR behind Cano. The majority of that is based on defense (Cano still has a lead overall in offense though). So you have to think if you really believe Kemp is a poor defender or not. Anecdotally I think he takes terrible routes a lot of the times.

  36. Jerkface October 25th, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    @YankeeSource: The Yankees should be aggressive on Ryu Hyun Jin if/when he is posted. Has the makeup to be a good pitcher in the NY atmosphere.

    I disagree with this. Jin is a lefty that is dominating the KBO in his prime, so by that metric he would be a good pickup for a team, but he is also doesn’t throw hard so he falls into the Kei Igawa category. Good for a team to pickup, but not at an aggressive price. Kei Igawa for 10 million dollars would have been way better than Igawa for 50 million dollars, and more in line with his potential.

  37. RadioKev October 25th, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    Are any other scouts as publicly opinionated as YankeeSource?

  38. 86w183 October 25th, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    It’s my way of dismissing WAR as a highly subjective over rated “stat”.

    It’s an interesting number, but far from a flawless evaluation of players’ values.

    It’s probably a mistake to compare 2B to OF just as it is to compare pitchers to catchers.

  39. jacksquat October 25th, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    If Nippon Ham (or any other NPB team) drafts Otani, they will have the right to sign him until the end of March 2013. The MLB and NPB working agreement prohibits one league from signing players who are under contract with a team from the other league, so at a minimum being selected in the draft would delay Otani signing with an MLB club for several months.

    I don’t see why he can’t be signed by a MLB team right now. He is not under contract. If anything the Fighters are not acting like “gentlemen” (of the so called gentlemen’s agreement) by drafting Otani even though he said he is going to MLB.

  40. blake October 25th, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    I would guess Yankeesource isn’t an MLB affiliated scout if he’s really a scout….

  41. Patrick October 25th, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    86w,

    It’s fine to not like WAR but the way you dismiss it shows that you don’t understand it. If you wanted to knock WAR you should be comparing players over the same amount of time.

  42. Patrick October 25th, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    Also pitcher WAR is dumb

  43. RadioKev October 25th, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    86w183 October 25th, 2012 at 12:54 pm
    It’s my way of dismissing WAR as a highly subjective over rated “stat”.

    It’s an interesting number, but far from a flawless evaluation of players’ values.

    It’s probably a mistake to compare 2B to OF just as it is to compare pitchers to catchers.
    —————

    Nope. You just applied it to different time ranges and position players and pitchers. That’s just totally illogical.

  44. blake October 25th, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    A lot of things are overrated but still worth looking at….I think WAR falls into this category….it’s fun to look at but it’s not accurate enough to make judgements about players on its own.

  45. Shame Spencer October 25th, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    WAR is much less offensive to the eyes than UZR (the worst combination of letters since DUI).

  46. Shame Spencer October 25th, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    Seriously though, I think WAR may be flawed but it still rates every player based on the same criteria, which at least gives you a point of comparison. ….I think.

  47. 86w183 October 25th, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    I understand it. I disagree with the way some treat it as a factual measure of the value of ballplayers. It’s just a number.

    Ben Zobrist in WAR last year. Really?

    It has some use, granted, but not that much. Probably best if limited to comparing guys at the same position.

  48. Jerkface October 25th, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    Are any other scouts as publicly opinionated as YankeeSource?

    He isn’t an MLB scout, so I don’t see why he shouldn’t be. As far as I can tell he is a pacific rim scout, maybe a scout for an NPB team or an MLB team or for a scouting organization like Scouts Inc. From what he says, I believe that he is. He watches too many NPB games/Korean games/Taiwanese games/MLB games to be someone who isn’t getting paid for it.

    I wish more scouts had twitter

  49. blake October 25th, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    @YankeeSource: I was talking about this with another scout and he suggested trading Granderson+Nunez+prospects for Upton.

  50. Doc Iac October 25th, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    Shame Spencer October 25th, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    WAR is much less offensive to the eyes than UZR (the worst combination of letters since DUI).

    hahahahaa

  51. Jerkface October 25th, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    WAR passes the ‘duh test’ where you look at the top 5 and see:

    1. Babe Ruth+ (22) 159.2 L
    2. Barry Bonds (22) 158.1 L
    3. Willie Mays+ (22) 150.8 R
    4. Ty Cobb+ (24) 144.9 L
    5. Hank Aaron+ (23)

    Yup, makes sense, good stat.

  52. blake October 25th, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    Yea I think he’s a scout as he does watch a lot of games and does seem to know what he’s talkin about…..MLB scouts affiliated with teams aren’t going to opine on twitter though

  53. RadioKev October 25th, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    86w183,

    Then how do you suggest what an OF brings the table versus what a 2B brings to the table when thinking about a potential trade?

    If you trade Cano for Kemp, you have Kemp, but now you have to replace Cano at 2B. What does that mean for the team? How much overall production have you probably gained or lost?

  54. Patrick October 25th, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    Probably best if limited to comparing guys at the same position.

    WAR is adjusted for position…

    I don’t really like pitcher WAR but it’s a perfectly valid statistic for position players. If you want to do a quick comparison between players WAR is a good way to do so and it’s pretty accurate.

    Rolen vs Rivera and Cano vs Polanco makes no sense…

    As for Zobrist’s WAR, he gains a lot of value from his defense.

  55. jacksquat October 25th, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    blake October 25th, 2012 at 1:02 pm
    @YankeeSource: I was talking about this with another scout and he suggested trading Granderson+Nunez+prospects for Upton.

    Depends which prospects. And it’s not a huge deal, but that does leave them up the creek without a backup SS, unless you want Nix to possibly spend a lot of time there.

  56. RadioKev October 25th, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    I wish more scouts were on Twitter too. That’s why I’m curious about “YankeeSource.” Seems very outside the norm.

  57. Shame Spencer October 25th, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    blake October 25th, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    @YankeeSource: I was talking about this with another scout and he suggested trading Granderson+Nunez+prospects for Upton.

    ——————-

    Well.. at least someone liked my trade proposal :neutral:

  58. blake October 25th, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    Id trade Granderson, Nunez , and the pick of a prospect for Upton

  59. RadioKev October 25th, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    I’d love that deal for J Upton, but I don’t think the D Backs would unless the prospects are very good.

    Getting full time SS value for Nunez is ideal because Cashman has pretty much said he’s just a back up.

  60. 86w183 October 25th, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    Ben It’s Accurate IF you agree with the premises and priorities of the calculations, especially defensively.

    I’m not opposed to looking at it in a big picture, but it is not a be all and end all.

    The rest I compared different positions was because the early response I got pointed out that Cano has more WAR than Kemp the last three years.

    I’m done… have a day everyone

  61. jacksquat October 25th, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    jacksquat October 25th, 2012 at 1:05 pm
    blake October 25th, 2012 at 1:02 pm
    @YankeeSource: I was talking about this with another scout and he suggested trading Granderson+Nunez+prospects for Upton.

    Depends which prospects. And it’s not a huge deal, but that does leave them up the creek without a backup SS, unless you want Nix to possibly spend a lot of time there.

    Or you could make that deal and trade Cano for Profar. :)

  62. Jerkface October 25th, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    Yea that trade is probably too good. I’d do that in a new york minute.

  63. UnKnown October 25th, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    Mike Axisa ?@mikeaxisa
    “In theory, I want us to get younger and better, but in reality, that’s not always realistic.” Most Cashman quote ever.

  64. jacksquat October 25th, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    Let’s remember that Upton has had basically 2 very good years and 2 so so years, including last year. He is not a guaranteed superstar, so I think demands for him need to be somewhat realistic.

  65. RadioKev October 25th, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    jacksquat October 25th, 2012 at 1:15 pm
    Let’s remember that Upton has had basically 2 very good years and 2 so so years, including last year. He is not a guaranteed superstar, so I think demands for him need to be somewhat realistic.
    ———-

    That’s nice of you. Can you explain that to Towers? ;) :)

    The thing is if he only had very good years he wouldn’t be tradeable. And if he was, we’re talking the fabled King Felix bounty here.

  66. Jerkface October 25th, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    Acquiring Upton off a down year is a very Nick Swisher cashman type move. Get it done, Cash.

  67. DONNYBROOK October 25th, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    - YANKEE OFFSEASON PRIORITIES – ($189 Mill in mind)

    (1) TRADE\DUMP A-ROD

    (1A) TRADE FOR HEADLEY\J. UPTON- (CANO\NUNEZ\PHELPS\NOVA\ROBERTSON\BUSHERS)

    (2) RE-SIGN PETTITTE

    (3) RE-SIGN KURODA

    (4) RE-SIGN ICHIRO (IF NO J UPTON)

  68. RadioKev October 25th, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    Bigger asking price: Chase Headley or Justin Upton?

  69. Shame Spencer October 25th, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    RadioKev October 25th, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    Bigger asking price: Chase Headley or Justin Upton?

    —————-

    Headley has a higher asking price (I’d think) but he’s also the player I’d rather have.

    Upton isn’t going to be a cheap solution to anything if we need to renegotiate that deal. If you trade for him, you gotta keep Williams I think (full disclosure: which is inconsistent with my prior proposal).

  70. Shame Spencer October 25th, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    If we did get Upton, he wouldn’t need to be a superstar by any means, btw.

    He’d just need to replace Swisher.. and hopefully bring a varied skill set to the table while doing so.

    I’d still rather have Headley….I hope they offer them a Godfather-esque deal and if they can’t get him, shift attention to Upton.

  71. Shame Spencer October 25th, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    @NYDNsports

    OVERRATED! Jets land top two – Tim Tebow and Mark Sanchez – in SI players poll seeking NFL’s most overrated player: http://nydn.us/P5DJxA

    ——————

    These polls are always so interesting….

  72. jacksquat October 25th, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    If Upton wants to renegotiate to be traded, it defeats the purpose and that deal is off. He is already due to make 13:$9.75M, 14:$14.25M, 15:$14.5M. That’s already not cheap.

  73. Against All Odds October 25th, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    I’d still rather have Headley

    ————-

    I’d rather have both :D

  74. jacksquat October 25th, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    Shame, why would you want to trade the farm for Headley when he has only 2 years of control left, and before this year didn’t show anywhere near the power he did?

  75. jacksquat October 25th, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    And if you are going to trade Granderson + Nunez + top prospects for Upton, you need to get more than just a Swisher replacement.

  76. Jerkface October 25th, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    That’s already not cheap.

    Well it depends on how the CBA is calculating AAV for traded players. From point of acquisition or from all. If his contract counts as 8 AAV they could extend him and still have a great deal for getting under the 189. If it counts as from point of trade, which can be an interpretation of the CBA, then its already not a steal. Instead of helping the team it would just be a neutral move where its a good player at fair value.

  77. blake October 25th, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    RadioKev says:
    October 25, 2012 at 1:21 pm
    Bigger asking price: Chase Headley or Justin Upton?

    Almost thinking Headley at this point

  78. blake October 25th, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    jacksquat says:
    October 25, 2012 at 1:30 pm
    And if you are going to trade Granderson + Nunez + top prospects for Upton, you need to get more than just a Swisher replacement.

    Upton has more upside than Swisher ever did…..he legit has top 5 player in baseball potential

  79. blake October 25th, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    But yea if Upton demands his contract be reworked to approve a trade then that changes things as a lot of his value is that 8 million AAV

  80. jacksquat October 25th, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    blake October 25th, 2012 at 1:37 pm
    jacksquat says:
    October 25, 2012 at 1:30 pm
    And if you are going to trade Granderson + Nunez + top prospects for Upton, you need to get more than just a Swisher replacement.

    Upton has more upside than Swisher ever did…..he legit has top 5 player in baseball potential

    My reply was to Shame saying he just needs to replace Swisher (with maybe a better skillset). I of course know Upton has more upside. My point was, if you are going to trade al l that, you better be pretty confident he is going to give you considerably more than Swisher.

  81. Tyler October 25th, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    I like Headley but I’d just as soon like to see how David Adams can do with some starts at 3rd. The Yanks have no real immediate solution to RF until you get down to Tyler Austin. I think Upton is the bigger need, imo. He does have some risk though as he wasn’t as good last year.

  82. DONNYBROOK October 25th, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    Supply and Demand people. 3B tough to fill. That’s why moving A-Rod is Not as impossible as suggested in this jungle.

  83. jacksquat October 25th, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    Jerkface October 25th, 2012 at 1:32 pm
    That’s already not cheap.

    Well it depends on how the CBA is calculating AAV for traded players. From point of acquisition or from all. If his contract counts as 8 AAV they could extend him and still have a great deal for getting under the 189. If it counts as from point of trade, which can be an interpretation of the CBA, then its already not a steal. Instead of helping the team it would just be a neutral move where its a good player at fair value.

    I think I remember you seeming to lean pretty heavily toward it being from point of trade?

  84. Tyler October 25th, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    My plan: Trade for Upton on a sweetheart of a deal. Fire Cashman right after. Hire Towers.

    I’m sure MLB would have no issue with this arrangement.

  85. blake October 25th, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    “My reply was to Shame saying he just needs to replace Swisher (with maybe a better skillset). I of course know Upton has more upside. My point was, if you are going to trade al l that, you better be pretty confident he is going to give you considerably more than Swisher.”

    Fair enough…. It depends on who the prospects are for me on that deal…..

  86. Tackelberry October 25th, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    Justin Upton is not worth giving up a ton for, and then having to renegotiate his contract on top of as well? No way.

  87. blake October 25th, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    Tyler says:
    October 25, 2012 at 1:42 pm
    My plan: Trade for Upton on a sweetheart of a deal. Fire Cashman right after. Hire Towers.

    I mentioned a plan like this before…..however my plan involved trading arranging for Cashman to be promoted to President of baseball ops…..towers to be hired as GM ….but before hand for Towers to trade Justin Upton to the Yankees for Chris Stewart and a PTBNL

  88. DONNYBROOK October 25th, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    This is at Least a 3 Way Deal. Gonna need to be a lot of bodies flying around in order to Net both J Upton and Headley.

  89. blake October 25th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    If you could do one of the following which do you pick?

    1) trade Granderson, Nunez, Mason Williams for Justin Upton.

    2) Sign Josh Hamilton and trade Granderson for Mike Olt or Anthony Rendon

  90. Jerkface October 25th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    I think I remember you seeming to lean pretty heavily toward it being from point of trade?

    That would be my interpretation of it, but everyone seems to say otherwise. It would be cool if someone could ask MLB.

  91. Against All Odds October 25th, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    @ Blake

    Number 2.

  92. Mike Ri October 25th, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    1) trade Granderson, Nunez, Mason Williams for Justin Upton.

    2) Sign Josh Hamilton and trade Granderson for Mike Olt or Anthony Rendon

    ———-

    Thats ALOT for upton ! …. Number 2 blake

  93. Patrick October 25th, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    Ugh..

    #1 Blake…

    #2 is not viable. Hamilton would be a terrible signing and Granderson for Olt/Rendon does not work.

  94. blake October 25th, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    Option # 2 leaves you with Josh Hamilton, Olt/Rendon. Nunez., and mason Williams

    Option # 1 leaves you with Justin Upton

  95. DONNYBROOK October 25th, 2012 at 1:52 pm

    I just do Not see Arizona going for Granderson, after trading Young. Similar players.

  96. blake October 25th, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    Patrick,

    The exercise isn’t about how realistic either is ;)

  97. Jerkface October 25th, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    I just do Not see Arizona going for Granderson, after trading Young. Similar players.

    Young is 70 OPS, 30 HRs short of Granderson

  98. Patrick October 25th, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    Option 2 leaves you with another terrible contract, Nunez who has no position and no CF. Mason Williams would be nice to keep though

    Option 1 leaves you with Justin Upton, Curtis Granderson and payroll flexibility.

    Option 2 is literally not a viable option. The Yankees simply cannot do it if they want to get under the luxury tax threshold and stay competitive.

  99. Tyler October 25th, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    blake October 25th, 2012 at 1:45 pm
    Tyler says:
    October 25, 2012 at 1:42 pm
    My plan: Trade for Upton on a sweetheart of a deal. Fire Cashman right after. Hire Towers.

    I mentioned a plan like this before…..however my plan involved trading arranging for Cashman to be promoted to President of baseball ops…..towers to be hired as GM ….but before hand for Towers to trade Justin Upton to the Yankees for Chris Stewart and a PTBNL
    ———————————————————–

    I like yours better…. it’s much nicer to Cashman.

  100. DONNYBROOK October 25th, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    Arizona needs a 3B\Nunez. That and Cano would get their attention.

  101. blake October 25th, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    “Option 2 leaves you with another terrible contract, Nunez who has no position and no CF. Mason Williams would be nice to keep though

    Option 1 leaves you with Justin Upton, Curtis Granderson and payroll flexibility.

    It wouldn’t be a terrible contract if it was 5 years IMO and Granderson would be gone in both options

  102. Patrick October 25th, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    Patrick,

    The exercise isn’t about how realistic either is

    Ok then..

    Which would you rather do

    Option 1 – Trade Francisco Cervelli for Mike Trout

    Option 2 – Trade Chris Dickerson for Bryce Harper

    … see my point? If you want to talk about possible moves the Yankees can make they have to be somewhat based in reality. I do not think that trading Granderson for Olt or Rendon is at all based in reality

  103. blake October 25th, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    Trading Cano for Upton makes the Yankees worse

  104. Patrick October 25th, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    It wouldn’t be a terrible contract if it was 5 years IMO and Granderson would be gone in both options

    My mistake, didn’t see you had Granderson included in the trade for Upton.

  105. Shame Spencer October 25th, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    blake – Too much for Upton, I’d make that deal for Headley because he plays two positions we need. I’d need a window to lock him up though..

    I backed off on giving up Williams for Upton… Upton’s ability to renegotiate if traded to the Yanks (and I could be wrong on that but this is how I read it) is a big hindrance for me as far as what I’d part with. It wouldnt stop be from trying to trade for him, but I’d have to be stingier with what I’m giving up.

    And yes… I’d rather have both Upton and Headley but trading for Headley and buying an OFer is probably preferable so we don’t have to trade ALL the players.

  106. DONNYBROOK October 25th, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    We are talking about adding BOTH J Upton and Headley.

  107. austinmac October 25th, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    Blake,

    I prefer door no. 2, but would do no. 1 as well and try to sign Scutaro.

  108. DONNYBROOK October 25th, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    As Mr Spock said to Capt Kirk when appraising Kahn, “His thinking is Strictly 1 dimensional”. That seems to be the case with some around here.

  109. blake October 25th, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    “… see my point”

    No because mine are a lot more realistic than that

  110. blake October 25th, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    ” I do not think that trading Granderson for Olt or Rendon is at all based in reality”

    I don know if either team would do those deals but iMO it’s a lot more realistic than you’re making it out to be…..

  111. DONNYBROOK October 25th, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    Some of you Over value Grandy. Your listening to Cashman’s Barnum and Bailey routine too much.

  112. austinmac October 25th, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    The Yankees may have as many as 8 playoff roster players not return because of retirement or free agency. This will be an interesting off season to do on the cheap. Lots of one year contract players.

    But, I relentlessly read and hope for some indication they will do something to give me hope.

  113. blake October 25th, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    Granderson hit 40 homers two years in a row and plays CF and is a year removed from a MVP caliber season……he has value

  114. Patrick October 25th, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    I don know if either team would do those deals but iMO it’s a lot more realistic than you’re making it out to be…..

    Would you trade Tyler Austin for 1 year of Adam Dunn (if he were an outfielder)?

    Nobody is going to trade a top 50 prospect for 1 year of Curtis Granderson it’s just not a realistic proposition

  115. DONNYBROOK October 25th, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    Back to the waffling when pinned down. Tisk\Tisk (right index finger waving from left-to-right)

  116. Jerkface October 25th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    Adam Dunn’s previous last 2 seasons are worse than Grandersons and he doesn’t play defense. Not a fair comparison, despite their similar looking offensive profile.

  117. Shame Spencer October 25th, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    Well… would it just be Granderson for Reddon or Olt or would it be a package including Granderson?

  118. Patrick October 25th, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    Adam Dunn’s previous last 2 seasons are worse than Grandersons and he doesn’t play defense. Not a fair comparison, despite their similar looking offensive profile.

    Would you trade a top 50 prospect for 1 year of any outfielder? Ok Dunn wasn’t the perfect comparison, it was the first guy that came to mind. But seriously, Rendon or Olt for Granderson? Hell no

  119. DONNYBROOK October 25th, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    Nobody said Grandy did Not have Any value. Some of us do Not see Teams trading top young talent for a $15 Mill K Machine that hits 4O+ Dingers.

  120. Jerkface October 25th, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    Would you trade a top 50 prospect for 1 year of any outfielder? Ok Dunn wasn’t the perfect comparison, it was the first guy that came to mind. But seriously, Rendon or Olt for Granderson? Hell no

    I think Granderson for Olt is realistic. Maybe not for Rendon. Would likely have to be more offsetting pieces in there. Olt hasn’t played well above AA & Rendon above A+, so i think both are reasonable trade targets.

  121. Shame Spencer October 25th, 2012 at 2:17 pm

    If you trade for either Olt or Rendon, do you keep them in the minors or throw them into the eye of the storm as a part time player?

  122. Patrick October 25th, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    I think Granderson for Olt is realistic.

    Ok, if you think so, but I still don’t think it’s a realistic trade for Texas.

  123. Tyler October 25th, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    Rendon is also blocked by Zimmerman unless either one has a position change.

  124. Jerkface October 25th, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    Ok, if you think so, but I still don’t think it’s a realistic trade for Texas.

    -

    They gotta replace Hamilton’s lefty bat :) I think its a fit, but I also think Texas might be on the no trade list because of their status as rival at the moment.

  125. Irreverent Discourse October 25th, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    The Yankees need to do THIS:
    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/.....1;mlb.html

    And fast.

  126. Jerkface October 25th, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    If acquired Olt would be on the bench/in the lineup splitting time at 3B & 1B. Rendon would be in AA.

  127. blake October 25th, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    “Would you trade Tyler Austin for 1 year of Adam Dunn (if he were an outfielder)?”

    If Adam Dunn played CF and I was in win now mode I might sure

  128. Shame Spencer October 25th, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    Irreverent Discourse October 25th, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    The Yankees need to do THIS:
    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/…..1;mlb.html

    And fast.

    ——————

    Yeah? I always just assume the Yanks are happy some fools buy these tickets at face value that sell for $10 on the secondary market…

  129. blake October 25th, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    Shame Spencer says:
    October 25, 2012 at 2:17 pm
    If you trade for either Olt or Rendon, do you keep them in the minors or throw them into the eye of the storm as a part time player?

    Yea Olt is 24 years old and big league ready….Rendon is probably a 2014 guy at the earliesr

  130. Shame Spencer October 25th, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    I like Olt’s price better and that he could help us now… but I’ve wanted to trade with the Nationals for a while just because… hmmm.. decisions decisions..

  131. mick October 25th, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    The Yankees sell tickets to Stub Hub.

  132. blake October 25th, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    Rendon probably has more upside than Olt though and the Nats are probably a more realistic trade partner for the Yankees than Texas is…..

  133. blake October 25th, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    The Nats could sign Granderson too if they wanted…..

  134. Jerkface October 25th, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    Now MLB s twitter account is promoting Otani: http://www.sportsonearth.com/a.....355062-996

  135. Irreverent Discourse October 25th, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    Who is going to pay $15mil for Granderson after he hit .230?

    The Yankees are.

  136. Jerkface October 25th, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    One problem going forward for NPB teams is that they are limited to offering a ¥100 million ($1.2 million) signing bonus and ¥50 million ($600,000) in incentives, along with a first-year salary of ¥15 million ($180,000) to domestic prospects. U.S. teams are free to exceed those figures.

    NPB commissioner Ryozo Kato, a former Japanese ambassador to the U.S., believes that trying to make the game here more attractive would be more effective than punishing those players who wish to go to the U.S. majors.

    “I think we should respect [Otani's] decision,” Kato said. “If there is a proposal, I think it will be debated, but basically I believe that it is important that Japanese baseball becomes more attractive to players. Looking ahead at the future, I think all of the 12 teams must think about ways of making it more attractive.”

  137. Tyler October 25th, 2012 at 2:43 pm

    Irreverent Discourse October 25th, 2012 at 2:40 pm
    Who is going to pay $15mil for Granderson after he hit .230?

    The Yankees are.
    ——————————————————–

    You forgot that whole 43 homerun part. Look, I don’t like one-dimensional Grandy but to say he doesn’t have value is wrong in my opinion.

  138. Irreverent Discourse October 25th, 2012 at 2:48 pm

    Tyler – the 190+strikeouts are far more prevalent than the 40HR’s. Especially if people are talking about trading him to bigger parks.

  139. blake October 25th, 2012 at 2:49 pm

    Irreverent Discourse says:
    October 25, 2012 at 2:40 pm
    Who is going to pay $15mil for Granderson after he hit .230?

    Probably a few teams would

  140. Irreverent Discourse October 25th, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    He was barely worth $12mil this year (FA replacement dollars), I don’t think the market for him is as big as you think.

  141. DONNYBROOK October 25th, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    I could see Grandy hitting 40 hrs as a Ranger. In that park the Nationals play in. NOPE

  142. Irreverent Discourse October 25th, 2012 at 2:55 pm

    Donny, you do realize that 40 is a number right? I thought it was all about watching him swing? :)

  143. DONNYBROOK October 25th, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    You mean swing……….and miss.

  144. jacksquat October 25th, 2012 at 3:04 pm

    Granderson is not one dimensional. Great power, good defense, very good baserunning speed, ability to steal bases, very durable, and a model citizen.

    On top of that, a one year contract has value because of it’s low risk.

  145. blake October 25th, 2012 at 3:13 pm

    Irreverent Discourse says:
    October 25, 2012 at 2:52 pm
    He was barely worth $12mil this year (FA replacement dollars), I don’t think the market for him is as big as you think.

    I don’t think it’s huge but I think he could bring a goo player in return for the right team

  146. blake October 25th, 2012 at 3:14 pm

    @Buster_ESPN: Blue Jays/Red Sox Farrell compensation talks came down to two players: Mike Aviles or Andrew Bailey. Aviles gives TOR flexibility w/Escobar.

    Interesting

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