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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


The risk and reward of Ichiro

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Oct 27, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Second weekend of this came-too-soon offseason, and already the Giants have won two more postseason games against the Tigers than the Yankees did. But at this point, the embarrassment has subsided a little bit and the bigger picture has come into focus. These days there seems to be less complaining about what happened in the playoffs and more talk about what the Yankees should do in the winter.

And personally, I’ve been a little surprised at just how often Ichiro Suzuki’s name has been brought up.

Joel Sherman reported this week that Ichiro would like to come back to the Yankees, but I’m not so sure the Yankees should want him back. Ichiro played well during his two months in pinstripes, and there might be something to the idea of a veteran player revitalizing his career in a competitive environment, but I find it hard to ignore the year and a half before Ichiro was traded.

Ichiro’s numbers took a serious hit in 2011, and they were even worse this year before the Mariners dumped him to add two young pitchers and open some playing time for young outfielders. As of September 1, Ichiro was still hitting just .266/.293/.369 this season, and that was with more than a month of improved numbers at the bottom of the Yankees lineup.

The idea of Ichiro is a nice fit for the Yankees. It’s an idea of an elite right fielder who can hit for a high average, get on base a lot and steal some bags. But I’m not sure the Yankees can count on Ichiro being that player next year. I’m not sure it’s enough of a slam dunk to decide he’s the right fielder, no questions asked.

It goes unnoticed, but Brett Gardner’s career on-base percentage is .355, just 10 points lower than Ichiro’s. Gardner’s not nearly the player Ichiro has been — no one is suggesting that — but I’m not sure Gardner wouldn’t put up better numbers than Ichiro next season. And if there’s a younger version of current Ichiro already on the roster, why add Ichiro himself? Just because he had two good months and might give the Yankees that high-average bat they were missing this season?

In a complementary role? Absolutely. Ichiro could be somewhat of a regular with the potential for real impact, but the risk of 2013 Ichiro looking a lot like 2011 Ichiro seems a little too great for me to consider him a standout right field option.

Associated Press photo

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353 Responses to “The risk and reward of Ichiro”

  1. blake October 27th, 2012 at 9:08 am

    blake says:
    October 27, 2012 at 9:04 am
    If you sign Hamilton then you get to keep the Austin’s and masons and Sanchezs and maybe they arrive on the scene in 2014 and help offset the big contracts……he could help bridge that gap…..

    Also Hamilton will put butts in the seats….he’s #2 in jersey sells behind Jeter and you know him hitting bombs into the upper deck and having people say he remind them of mantle will create a buzz……

  2. blake October 27th, 2012 at 9:09 am

    Sign Ichiro

  3. Tar October 27th, 2012 at 9:10 am

    Bring back Ichiro!

    Good morning everyone. Just catching up. Thanks for the Bret update yanks61.

    “Bo knows October 26th, 2012 at 3:46 pm
    I mourn Grandy’s swing change at about August of last year. As the pitcher is delivering, his hands are moving backwards – don’t understand.”

    Bo

    Just ran across your post. I too have noticed and posted on this. One night in particular I rewound and slo-moed his swing like 25 times. It was a great angle so you could see the pitcher as well as Curtis. During the wind-up he’s fidgeting, now as the pitcher has released the ball and his hands are moving back to get into position. The ball is half way to home plate before he is ready to swing. Of course he has no chance and swings way late. It is so obvious that I called it Little League. Pat M was on that night and noticed it as well. When Curtis was going good He was coiled and ready to spring (like a cat) much sooner. It was an explosion in one direction, straight to the ball.

    It’s things like this where I have a problem with management and coaches. KLong should be all over stuff like that. Just like Rothschild should have picked up on Hughes tipping his pitches way sooner then he did. I don’t know all the particulars of what exchanges have taken place between coaches and players, but I do know the Yankees deserve better than that.

  4. blake October 27th, 2012 at 9:11 am

    I think Ichiro’s resurgence was real….at least real enough to bring him back for a year ,… Plus I just like him

  5. bobg October 27th, 2012 at 9:13 am

    Torii Hunter would be the logical fit 2yr contract till the minor league boys are ready to take over.

  6. Yankee Trader October 27th, 2012 at 9:15 am

    Blake-

    I am thoroughly convinced the Yankees have begun to look into paring payroll for the coming season, in preparation for the benefits for them to be under the magic limit of 189M for years 2014 thru 2016.

    It started in July when the Yankee moves were cheap options like McGehee, Qualls and even Ichiro-asking the Mariners to pick up a big chunk.

    I don’t believe Hamilton will fit under the XMas tree.

    Try signing FA’s for 1-2 years or trading for players whose contracts are up in a year or two, when the pack of minor league hopefuls can contribute.

    Sorry to burst our bubble!

  7. Cashmoney October 27th, 2012 at 9:16 am

    I get the power and obp with Ichiro…I get the age and 162 grind. But ichiro is still defensive plus and good bat imo.it comes down to what it always come down to…Yanks need to get these guys in short term and reasonable deal. if you get ichi for 5 plus little incentive then the risk is greatly minimize.

  8. Frankg October 27th, 2012 at 9:20 am

    Ichiro may be the best player they can find for right field and they should sign him on that basis for one year. If he is not as good as he looked while a Yankee, they could seek replacements internally or externally. I wonder if Dickerson might provide the same output at less cost and with more potential to hit HRs?

    Ichiro almost singlehandedly won a series with Toronto for the Yankees.

    I also have some doubt that Swisher will be able to find a multi-year deal to his liking and I believe his newly married spouse is a NY based actress with a hit TV series, making it tough to relocate.

  9. GregD October 27th, 2012 at 9:21 am

    Blake

    Do you think the Yanks might sign Hamilton? He will want a boatload of money and his age and situation wreaks of the same stench that now clouds the ARod contract and someday soon the Tex contract…………..

  10. Yankee Trader October 27th, 2012 at 9:22 am

    Tar-

    Good morning and good points on Granderson. If Granderson would take a pitch and try to go the other way against the shift, his BA would probably climb back to his career norms. Also he and others batting from the left side cannot hit the CU from a righty, or for that matter almost any offspeed pitch.

    I don’t think he’ll be traded this offseason, because I don’t believe the Yankees will find a team willing to absorb the 15M and take a chance for a FA who is in need of repair. Maybe after he shows improvement during the season.

  11. yanks61 October 27th, 2012 at 9:22 am

    Good morning YT.

    “I don’t believe Hamilton will fit under the XMas tree.”

    But, on the other hand, if they were to trade Grandy and Cano for younger, less expensive players and let Swish go, wouldn’t there be plenty of room for Hamilton and still leave lots savings for 2014? They’d have to replace Swish and Cano with less expensive players of course. Which could be the rub.

    ————————————————-

    Tar, you’re welcome for the Bret update.

  12. austinmac October 27th, 2012 at 9:23 am

    I agree Hamilton would fit extremely well, but unfortunately Hal’s fat wallet is a better fit. Look for one year contract guys with more bull that this new team, without a number of key parts, can be competitive.

    I like Blake’s plan. It would ultimately make Hal richer, but they won’t see that until revenues plummet.

  13. austinmac October 27th, 2012 at 9:25 am

    Ichiro, yes, as the 4th outfielder, but no to start in right. Too left handed and you can’t have two starters in the OF with zero power.

  14. Yankee Trader October 27th, 2012 at 9:25 am

    This doesn’t make the team younger but an OF of Granderson, Ichiro, Gardner and the righty bat of Hunter rotating at OF and DH would probably fit under budget.

  15. Cashmoney October 27th, 2012 at 9:31 am

    mac, my selling points to Hal would be this… 1. WS for 13 2. Here is the big drawing card that Yes will need 3. we can let cano go.

  16. Yankee Trader October 27th, 2012 at 9:32 am

    Cashman might just be in stealth mode but based on comments-

    ARod is next seasons third baseman and he has received no calls on him. Remember his AAV is 27.5M, his 2013 contract is 28M and his marketing bonus that he’ll get with 14 more homers is 6M.

    Granderson as I mentioned above is unlikely to bring back the value you want right now.

    Cano-Yankees probably won’t discuss an extension this offseason with Boras

    Swisher-I tink the Phillies will be interested, which is close enough to NY and his wife’s acting career.

  17. austinmac October 27th, 2012 at 9:32 am

    YT,

    I think that is an acceptable stopgap outfield , but I doubt Hunter would do one year or that the Yankees would do two at his likely cost. Think cheaper and shorter. Now, of McGehee could lose fifty pounds. . . :)

  18. austinmac October 27th, 2012 at 9:33 am

    “if”

  19. yanks61 October 27th, 2012 at 9:33 am

    As usual, Chad makes some terrific points. Back in the 50′s, the Yanks made a habit of bringing in great old Vets to roundout their rosters. For example, Johnny Mize and Enos Slaughter were future HOFers, who were clearly on the downside of their careers. However, they came in as part-time players (though they both got a fair number of oppotunities.) But they did play important roles – just not full time. So, I can understand Chad’s point about Ichiro. I love the guy and would really like to keep him. But would he want to split time with someone else? He would also get opportunities to fill in when another OF needs a rest or in the case of injuries. Would he accept that?

    Thoughts?

  20. blake October 27th, 2012 at 9:39 am

    “Do you think the Yanks might sign Hamilton? ”

    I doubt it….but I’m only advocating they do if they can get him at 5 years or less.

    I think they could fit both Cano and Hamilton under the cap if they are able to solve their pitching primarily from within and if they are able to either deal for young players like Olt or Rendon or have a couple of prospects pan out…..

    Which IMO they are gonna have trouble staying at their current level of competitiveness and getting under the cap anyway if those thing don happen….. If they a veto go out and buy more pitching then that’ll cause the same problem as signing Hamilton would…..

    Basically as I’ve said….I think the Yanks could miss te playoffs next year if they don’t address their offense ….. The status quo would be very risky and even though they want to get under that cap…..losing would cost them even more money in decreased attendance and YES ratings…..

    so I do think they either need to get bold with some trades to address the issue (which would potentially add to the problem because you’d have to trade prospects) or they can sign a star stopgap like Hamilton to try and bridge the gap …..

  21. yanks61 October 27th, 2012 at 9:40 am

    Yankee Trader October 27th, 2012 at 9:25 am
    This doesn’t make the team younger but an OF of Granderson, Ichiro, Gardner and the righty bat of Hunter rotating at OF and DH would probably fit under budget.

    ———————————————————-
    YT:

    Yeah, that kind of thing makes sense if Hamilton is out of reach. I guess Hunter could be persuaded since he’d be playing full time. Would Ichiro go for that though?

  22. Tar October 27th, 2012 at 9:42 am

    YT

    Grandy cant go the other way because everything he’s doing is late. He has to rush his swing to have any hope. Pitch recognition is non existent because he doesn’t have the time. Its swing or not, not CB or FB thats why IMO you see so many awful looking swings.

    When he was going good, he was coiled and ready. He could then recognize the pitch and exploded on it. It should be a very an easy to fix issue. Like Bo I don’t understand why it ‘s not.

  23. bobg October 27th, 2012 at 9:43 am

    The Yankees should offer Hunter two year 28 million he would be a perfect fit. My main concern is our catching dept for the next few years. We need to get Martin back for sure or we will regret it big time if we let Martin go.

  24. Cashmoney October 27th, 2012 at 9:46 am

    btw, i think gardner is everyday player on a decent team but not on a championship team. when i look at gardner i see the speed though still not great basestealer. I see the D. but I see a mediocre bat with little power and granted lot of contactibility. I could see Joe use combo of ichi /gardner in LF. or rotating 4 OF in 3 spots. the key is a RH bat that can hit lefty and with power. easier said than done. stubb in Cincy might be available. or a guy like gomes who you might be able to mask in D in RF.

  25. blake October 27th, 2012 at 9:46 am

    Two things are crucial to the yanks plan of staying a title contender and getting under 189.

    1) their young pitching: if guys like Pineda, and Hughes, and Nova, and Banuelos and Phelps can’t fill out the rotation well enough so that they don’t have to go out and sign pitchers then its going to be tough
    2) that group of position players in A ball: they have to have at least a couple of those guys pan out and at minimum be cheap big league regulars

    The issue with making deals for Headley or Upton is that you may have to wipe out a big chunk of that 2nd point.

    The Yankees should always buy what they need when possible…..trading for it causes you to pay twice….in money and players

  26. austinmac October 27th, 2012 at 9:50 am

    The Yankees aren’t going to give Hunter a lot of money for 2014. No way. Cashman has said they will consider how every move affects 2013. One year deals is his plan albeit a stupid plan.

  27. Cashmoney October 27th, 2012 at 9:51 am

    Hamilton is what the Yes network needs… he is well within reach you just have let Cano walk. it’s pretty simple. for 13, you can have both. this is well within the line of the budget goal in 14.

    blake, i think i think it’s more realistic that they take a step back in 14 because your scenarios involves too many ifs.

  28. austinmac October 27th, 2012 at 9:52 am

    Stubbs strikes out as much as Granderson with less offensive upside. It is hard to improve without spending money.

    Yes ratings are down. If they don’t respond, they will be even more significantly down next year. I pretty much guarantee it.

  29. blake October 27th, 2012 at 9:53 am

    “blake, i think i think it’s more realistic that they take a step back in 14 because your scenarios involves too many ifs.”

    Every scenario involves ifs though…..

  30. yanks61 October 27th, 2012 at 9:53 am

    “The Yankees should always buy what they need when possible…..trading for it causes you to pay twice….in money and players”

    Blake, didn’t that use to be Cash’s mantra. His marching orders are obviously now very different.

  31. blake October 27th, 2012 at 9:55 am

    Hamilton also provides a bit of insurance in the middle of the order short term in case Cano leaves after 2013…..Hamilton’s deal should be shorter than what Cano will demand

  32. MTU October 27th, 2012 at 9:55 am

    Blake-

    “The Yankees should always buy what they need when possible…..trading for it causes you to pay twice….in money and players”

    Key phrase is “when possible”.

    As you and others have pointed out the FA talent pool has been shrinking in recent years.

    Especially w regard to high end bats.

    This why trading is the more likely vehicle, or stopgap mode.

    I think we can trade w/o destoying the future but that’s just my take.

    ;)

  33. Cashmoney October 27th, 2012 at 9:58 am

    sure, but i really think there are so many ifs after 13, the yonder days of buying what you need is gone till you get rid of tex and rod’s contracts. I think the rational conclusion would be give system a year and 2 to catch up. but then again, Don’t mean I am right just a realistic way to look at it.

  34. Cashmoney October 27th, 2012 at 10:02 am

    i think Angels, Reds and Detroit will regret those mega deals sooner than later… I also think Larussa is right … extending anyone beyond 6 years is a major risk except in very few cases.

  35. blake October 27th, 2012 at 10:04 am

    Or how bout this:

    Sign Hamilton to a 5 year deal
    Trade Cano to Arizona for Upton and Aaron hill.
    Trade Granderson to Texas for Olt

    Gardner CF
    Jeter SS
    Hamilton RF
    Tex 1B
    Upton LF
    Arod DH
    Hill 2B
    Olt 3B
    Martin C

    That’s probably crazy….but you keep all your prospects….get younger and more flexible financially , and arguably are just as god if not better on the field in 2013.

    Again that’s a crazy plan that’s unlikely to happen…..but the Yanks need to he creative if they want to do what they say they are going to do and I hope Cashman is sitting around brainstorming like we do about how to accomplish it

  36. Melkmanisinhotlanta October 27th, 2012 at 10:09 am

    Arod isn’t going anywhere. Steinbrenner’s albatross and salary parasite is going to drain resources for the term of his contract. If they sign Cano to an 8 to 10 year contract, that is the signal that management is incompetent.

  37. blake October 27th, 2012 at 10:11 am

    A 5 year deal for hamtilton would likely be better than an 8-10 year deal for Cano….just sayin

  38. jacksquat October 27th, 2012 at 10:14 am

    If the choice is between Cano and Hamilton, I’ll take Cano.

  39. jacksquat October 27th, 2012 at 10:17 am

    Cano is not getting 10 from anyone. His max is probably 8 if it includes 2013.

  40. MTU October 27th, 2012 at 10:19 am

    I think most of us are hoping the Yankees get creative this OS.

    And that they upgrade the O.

    Trouble is that I doubt they’ll do it.

    They are way more likely to tweak it than peak it.

    They have been nothing if not conservative in their approach in recent years.

    We’ll see if 2 PS’s of early exits are enough to get them thinking and off the dime.

    My bet is that they’ll rationalize things, make few changes of significance, and keep an ever watchful eye on good ole 189.

    Prove me wrong Hal/Cash.

    I dare ya’.

    ;)

  41. MTU October 27th, 2012 at 10:20 am

    Got to run soon.

    Hike day.

    have fun.

    :)

  42. blake October 27th, 2012 at 10:22 am

    jacksquat says:
    October 27, 2012 at 10:14 am
    If the choice is between Cano and Hamilton, I’ll take Cano.

    In a vaccuum sure….if its Hamilton for 5 years vs Cano for 8 or 9 then it’s a different story….,.the problems with having a budget

  43. Yankee Trader October 27th, 2012 at 10:24 am

    Yanks61-

    I’m not endorsing this but if you have an OF of Hunter, Ichiro, Granderson and Gardner you rotate them thru OF and some time at DH.

    Now Hal has just handed me the budget for the 40 man roster for 2013. He wants to be below the close to 210M he was paying for this years opening day payroll. He wants to be close to 185M, allowing for another 5M for inseason pick-ups.

    Take into account all the AAV’s of the players with NTC’s and field a 25Man team allowing for enough money to pay the others on the 40 man roster.

    Here’s a cot’s payroll guideline:

    https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tpQLwiiQL4kzEzLhsUqVjLQ&output=html

    Can anyone come up with a “realistic” scenario?

  44. jacksquat October 27th, 2012 at 10:26 am

    Not in a vacuum, that’s considering years, salary, the position they play, etc. Hamilton’s AAV might be even higher than Cano’s would need to be.

  45. Melkmanisinhotlanta October 27th, 2012 at 10:29 am

    Cano has had his peak years with the NYY, it’s unlikely that he will be able to repeat that production for much longer. Selling Cano high via trade is the key to bringing value to the NYY. Some other team can overpay him for 8 to 10 years.

  46. Yankee Trader October 27th, 2012 at 10:34 am

    Blake-
    Try trading Cano to the Indians for Choo and Kipnis, or the Reds for Phillips and Bruce, or the Angels for Kendrick and Trumbo? Why will teams want Boras client Cano for an 8-10 year 200M plus contract and give up their 2nd baseman and right fielder?

    Can we think a little smaller here and have a contending team?

  47. blake October 27th, 2012 at 10:36 am

    jacksquat says:
    October 27, 2012 at 10:26 am
    Not in a vacuum, that’s considering years, salary, the position they play, etc. Hamilton’s AAV might be even higher than Cano’s would need to be.

    I doubt it….. Both will command over 20 per year

  48. RespectTheGame October 27th, 2012 at 10:38 am

    Someone mentioned Hamilton is what the YES Network needs.

    They sure do!

    Unless you can find another Mike Trout real quick:)

    Cashman sounded less enthusiastic about Ichiro on the radio the other day than I thought he would.

    I got the same vibe from him that he put out there when he talked about Matsui and Damon as FA’s after the ’09 WS win.

    I think T. Hunter’s their first choice for RF. Great positive energy level too which is needed.
    I think during last season he mentioned possibly retiring after his current deal was up, so perhaps he would be welcoming of just a 1 yr. deal.

  49. blake October 27th, 2012 at 10:41 am

    “Why will teams want Boras client Cano for an 8-10 year 200M plus contract and give up their 2nd ”

    I don’t know if they would but the Dbacks want to contend next year and Cano is the best player in that deal…..towers could flip Cano at the deadline if they weren’t in it…..towers is aggressive…. You never know

  50. blake October 27th, 2012 at 10:42 am

    Blake-
    Try trading Cano to the Indians for Choo and Kipnis, or the Reds for Phillips and Bruce, or the Angels for Kendrick and Trumbo? Why will teams want Boras client Cano for an 8-10 year 200M plus contract and give up their 2nd baseman and right fielder?

    Also…. The deal with the Reds is the only one of those Id do and the reds wouldn’t

  51. blake October 27th, 2012 at 10:45 am

    I don’t think they’ll trade Cano however…and actually I don’t want them to really

  52. Yankee Trader October 27th, 2012 at 10:47 am

    Blake-

    The Phillies need an outfielder, especially a centerfielder. One way to solve the Yankees catching problem would be to trade Granderson to the Phillies and get Carlos Ruiz back. Both have club options this year and are then Free Agents.

  53. yankee21 October 27th, 2012 at 10:48 am

    NYY needs to be certain of Cano’s intentions. They need to go to him this OS and offer a 6 year, 120 mil deal that could be negotiated up to 130 mil. That is as far as I would go. Wrap him up for 6 years, if he wants to stay in pinstripes or follow the money, put it on him to choose.

    I hope NYY follows the same path that STL did with Pujols. Make him a solid offer but have a clear walk away point. I do not want to pay Cano beyond the age of 37.

    If Boras/Cano turn it down and they probably will, then NYY needs to shop Cano hard. There is some team out there that will move good pieces back to NYY for the game’s best 2B.

  54. blake October 27th, 2012 at 10:48 am

    “The Phillies need an outfielder, especially a centerfielder. One way to solve the Yankees catching problem would be to trade Granderson to the Phillies and get Carlos Ruiz back. Both have club options this year and are then Free Agents.”

    I don’t think Philly would do it

  55. blake October 27th, 2012 at 10:50 am

    I agree that they really need to get a feel of what it’s going to take to sign Cano…..if he will sign a 6 year extension then do it…. But if he’s dead set on 200 million and becoming a FA then you have to wait ….that’s just way too much risk to take on a year early.

    If you can get Hamilton for a shorter deal then you have them both for 2

  56. blake October 27th, 2012 at 10:51 am

    I agree that they really need to get a feel of what it’s going to take to sign Cano…..if he will sign a 6 year extension then do it…. But if he’s dead set on 200 million and becoming a FA then you have to wait ….that’s just way too much risk to take on a year early.

    If you can get Hamilton for a shorter deal then you have them both for 2013 and then Hamilton can act as a hedge against Cano leaving…..

  57. yankee21 October 27th, 2012 at 10:56 am

    If Cano is dead set on a mega, mega deal, if you are the Yankees you have to part ways.

    Sorry Cano this is no longer 1998 or 2007 and you are definitely not Jeter or Arod in their prime.

    Good luck and happy trails.

    Then Cashman get on the phone and don’t get off until you find a deal that will help shape your franchise positively for the next 3-5 years.

  58. Yankee Trader October 27th, 2012 at 11:03 am

    I’d like to stay and join in the fun some more. Hopefully the Giants will sweep so the offseason wheekings and dealings can happen that much sooner.

    The Yankees have a number of decisions to make soon after and hopefully negotiations won’t drag out too long for bringing back pitchers like Pettitte, Kuroda, and Rivera, so that the Yankees can see if they can afford to package a pitcher in a deal for a young power hitting outfielder.

    Have a great day all. :)

  59. yanks61 October 27th, 2012 at 11:05 am

    Yanks61-

    “I’m not endorsing this but if you have an OF of Hunter, Ichiro, Granderson and Gardner you rotate them thru OF and some time at DH.”

    YT, I like that OF, but would Ichiro be willing to play part time – even if it’s a reasonably large part time role?

    Gotta go get some work done before it gets dark. Check back with you later. Meanwhile, thank you all for the discussion.

  60. yankee21 October 27th, 2012 at 11:10 am

    Got to go with two more points related to Cano, Grandy.

    1. NYY needs to be extremely pro-active with Cano, they simply cannot pull a Mets with Reyes and allow him to go to FA and get only draft picks. The epitome of stupid.

    2. NYY needs to shop Granderson hard. He has no future here beyond next year so might as well see if you can find a near major league ready 3B or SS for him and give Gardner the keys to CF next year.

    Have a good day all.

  61. 86w183 October 27th, 2012 at 11:18 am

    Morning gang —

    I’m not in favor of signing Ichiro unless it’s some platoon with a RH hitter who has some power. A Johnny Gomes type perhaps?

    Hamilton would create an incredible buzz and, believe it or not CAN sit into the master budget if he’s in the Teixeira range financially. It just means you have to make concessions elsewhere. Such as Romine/Stewart/Cervelli handling catcher and/or a Dickerson/Mesa LF platoon.

    Hamilton and three minimum wage guys would cost about the same as Swisher + Martin + Jones + Ibanez/Ichiro. If you more Granderson it’s even easier.

  62. 86w183 October 27th, 2012 at 11:21 am

    If you MOVE Granderson

  63. The Return of Stoneburner October 27th, 2012 at 11:22 am

    HI HO!!!!!

    Olney says no one should be surprised if the Royals deal one of their core hitters – Alex Gordon, Eric Hosmer, Billy Butler, Mike Moustakas, etc. – to acquire pitching this winter. Hosmer presumably has the most value of the group despite his down 2012 season.
    Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#rEvmCg3QeHvGFgCI.99

  64. blake October 27th, 2012 at 11:23 am

    Olney says no one should be surprised if the Royals deal one of their core hitters – Alex Gordon, Eric Hosmer, Billy Butler, Mike Moustakas, etc. – to acquire pitching this winter. Hosmer presumably has the most value of the group despite his down 2012 season.
    Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....dHHZMC1.99

  65. blake October 27th, 2012 at 11:26 am

    Jinx

  66. LathamJoe October 27th, 2012 at 11:28 am

    Definitely would sign Ichiro to a 1-year deal, with perhaps a 1-Yr Team Option for a salary not to exceed $8 Mil annually. I believe Ichiro’s offensive stats took a hit partly because of age, but significantly because:
    a. There was little or no incentive provided to him because of the Team’s status as a pennant non-contender and the relatively apathetic fan support toward Ichiro (who have now adopted King Felix as their “savior”).
    b. Virtually no protection in the Mariner lineup for Ichiro to see any fat pitches. Seattle was last in virtually all major offensive categories, except runs – ranking 27th

    The 2013 Yankee team desperately needs to get back to its hitters making contact and moving baserunners. Ichiro, although not a high OBP, makes contact, and in Yankee Stadium, can provide some extra base power. With Swisher probably gone, Ichiro can fill in capably as a part-time DH/outfielder.

    I’d love to see Cashman pursue acquiring Victor Martinez from the Tigers. a solid switchhitter who definitely hits with RISP and can give you some time at catcher/first base. Perhaps Dombroski will not be able to afford Victor in the Tigers current salary structure. I strongly suspect that the Tigers will go after Soriano for a 3 year deal/45 Mil. And if they also add Hamilton……

  67. Triple Short of a Cycle October 27th, 2012 at 11:35 am

    Moustakas for Nova

  68. blake October 27th, 2012 at 11:39 am

    Don’t think they’d trade moose….. They have outfield depth to deal from

  69. Triple Short of a Cycle October 27th, 2012 at 11:55 am

    Then go after Alex Gordon instead

  70. blake October 27th, 2012 at 11:56 am

    Triple Short of a Cycle says:
    October 27, 2012 at 11:55 am
    Then go after Alex Gordon instead

    Id do Nova for Gordon in a heartbeat….. Think they’d want more though

  71. The Return of Stoneburner October 27th, 2012 at 11:59 am

    Doh!

    The Rays could match-up for such a trade with the Royals since they have a wide array of starting pitching to offer. The Mariners, Diamondbacks, and Athletics could be matches as well.
    Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#QmUw1TC7jEQD6Jpp.99

  72. luis October 27th, 2012 at 11:59 am

    Good morning all,

    The more a think about it, the more I like the Hamilton signing if the deal is for 5 or less years. It costs only money and you don’t give up prospects or cost control pitchers, which the more I think about it the more it could compound the Yankees problems going forward. Our pitching depth would be hit if we trade any of our pitchers, maybe not for next season, but for the seasons after that, and if we add that we have an aging offense the picture doesn’t look so bright, hence the compounding problem.

    What I would definitely do is trade Granderson, try to extend Cano for 6 or 7 years, shop Tex or Arod, otherwise having 5 players making 20 or more millions per season is unsustainable. You can’t build a roster with what’s left of the cap money.

  73. Cashmoney October 27th, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    think price tags on Mous and Homser will be sky high despite relative down years. I think butler is a legit hitter and can be your every day dh or spot Tex. I think he the purest hitter out of all 4 as of now. Gordon is in the same category as butler, both making good money now, obviously he satisfy a need for NY in the OF. out of the 4, I think butler, gordon,mous and hosmer in order of availability. As to whom that NY might be able spare in terms of young pitching i don’t know. 2 years ago betance might get you one of them easily, esp when gordon was struggling. At this point, none of these guys are undervalued by the royals imo, so we see.

  74. luis October 27th, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    FTR: I think they should pursue the early retirement scenario with Arod. If you can’t trade either of those contracts, I don’t think they can sign Hamilton. Those two contracts are a very heavy necklace to wear and it will hinder the Yankees flexibility until those contracts are off the books

  75. 86w183 October 27th, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    Gordon is a good fit. I agree Moustakas isn’t going anywhere.

    I love Butler’s bat, but who needs another DH?

    Here’s a creative idea

    Hughes and Adams/Joseph for Gordon and Soria

    Yanks take financial risk on Soria being healthy… get bullpen insurance/depth they can use and/or deal from down the line.

    Would rather do Nova or Phelps, but I think KC wants a more experienced guy.

  76. blake October 27th, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    I don’t want to trade Hughes but if they’d do Hughes for Gordon straight id probably grit my teeth and do it …..assuming they can get Kuroda and Andy back

  77. Cashmoney October 27th, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    I am sure Cashman and Hal will find out where they at with Cano and act accordingly. they need to determine if it’s possible to retain him as early as possible. If they add Hamilton i will keep him for one year and go for it all. If not, trade him. a lot stuff in the air….

  78. jacksquat October 27th, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    Arod and Tex are very likely not going anywhere, so everyone should proceed with their master planning with that limitation in mind.

  79. luis October 27th, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    Blake,

    Ok, you trade any of Nova, Phelps or Hughes… What happens in 2014?… We trade the bats on the farm to get pitching again?

  80. luis October 27th, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    JS,

    In that case, you have no choice but live within your means, look for internal options from the player on triple A. In any event, for me trading Granderson is a must. Cano if you can’t extend him for a reasonable period of years, they might have to deal him too. Ugh.

  81. 86w183 October 27th, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    What do you guys think about a Halladay/Granderson deal? Yanks would have to add something, but Phillies need two OF, are about maxed out $$$$ and Halladay is the most tradeable of the starting pitchers contract-wise.

    I expect Doc to be strong in a bounce back 2013.

  82. Cashmoney October 27th, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    I really love butler’s bat. he is a tough out and a professional hitter. almost elite hitter, the power might be even better out of KC. just saying.

  83. The Return of Stoneburner October 27th, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    luis October 27th, 2012 at 12:10 pm
    Blake,

    Ok, you trade any of Nova, Phelps or Hughes… What happens in 2014?… We trade the bats on the farm to get pitching again?

    *********

    Turley – - – -

  84. blake October 27th, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    “Ok, you trade any of Nova, Phelps or Hughes… What happens in 2014?… We trade the bats on the farm to get pitching again?”

    Well Pineda is key… Any way you slice it they need him to be what they paid for…..Id prefer to keep Hughes because IMO he’s turned a corner …..

    As I’ve said……if their young pitching doesn’t perform they aren’t getting under this cap and being competitive anyway IMO

  85. luis October 27th, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    Blake,

    I wouldn’t count on Pineda… If he is the key, then we are most probably screwed… Before you trade any of those pitchers, I would like to see what he have in him. It is not a good recipe to rely on a pitcher that just had shoulder surgery.

  86. blake October 27th, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    What do you guys think about a Halladay/Granderson deal? Yanks would have to add something, but Phillies need two OF, are about maxed out $$$$ and Halladay is the most tradeable of the starting pitchers contract-wise.”

    Id do it….. Don’t think Philly would

  87. blake October 27th, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    “I wouldn’t count on Pineda… If he is the key, then we are most probably screwed”

    We might be….

  88. luis October 27th, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    Turley?

  89. The Return of Stoneburner October 27th, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    luis October 27th, 2012 at 12:28 pm
    Turley?

    ******

    Turley – - – -

  90. jacksquat October 27th, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    The rotation questions are why I like my Greinke plan that I posted last night.

  91. austinmac October 27th, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    The 25 man roster is only about half filled. This off season will tell us how the next several years will go. I do hope they don’t wait for their free agents next year to depart in vain hope of one last chance.

    I can’t imagine Cano will sign for less than eight years. I would see what he would bring since I believe that would be a disaster.

    Butler is a very good hitter, but he’s a DH/first baseman. I don’t think he would fit. Gordon, Hosmer, Moose would all be wonderful additions. Teams like the Rays have more young pitching they can give up.

    They should, but likely won’t, try to add via free agency to save the minor leaguers for money savings in the future.

  92. austinmac October 27th, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    Jacksquat,

    I like Greinke too. Cashman, the psychologist, doesn’t think he can handle New York. He seems to have pitch well everywhere to me.

  93. luis October 27th, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    Stoneburner,

    Isn’t he to far to be ready by 2014? He is a lefty, I know… But the report I read a while back, projected him as a back of the rotation starter… Is he that good?

  94. 86w183 October 27th, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    Nik Turley is far from ready.

    Adam Warren is the most likely starter to make it to MLB… Montgomery the closest reliever.

    Blake — I think Philly might. They are spending almost $ 70 M on three starters next year and have lots of holes in their OF. They could just sign Swisher, but they already have $ 133 M on the books for next year… and most of that goes to eight players.

    They also have to decide on options on Wigginton, Polanco and Ruiz… they may decline the first two, but Ruiz will be expensive.

  95. 86w183 October 27th, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    The only problem with Grienke is the ignorance about what a social anxiety order is and what it is not.

    Someone who battles such a condition is likely to suffer an “episode” due to a confrontation with someone in a restaurant or bar. A large crowd of faceless, nameless people booing him is not likely to have any effect.

  96. The Return of Stoneburner October 27th, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    luis October 27th, 2012 at 12:42 pm
    Stoneburner,

    Isn’t he to far to be ready by 2014? He is a lefty, I know… But the report I read a while back, projected him as a back of the rotation starter… Is he that good?

    *****

    I think some pundits undersell Turley. He will start 2013 in AA – and he is more than capable to finish the year in AAA.

    His fastball is now at 90-92 mph and he has hit 94 at a nice rate – he is a tall lefty – already has a nice pickoff move – his curveball spiked up to the high 70s – and he is working on a slider now.

    I think 2012 has shown Turley is a good bet to be what Hughes has also developed into and what Phelps is developing into – a solid mid-rotation starter – a no. 3 who has good days and bad days – the question with Hughes I have is how much do you pay him when there are similar types on the way as far as rotation types – - – -

    As for higher upside pitchers – Jose Ramirez and the other group of DePaula, Gallegos, and Rincon – I will be dreaming on those for past 2014 – - – -

  97. blake October 27th, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    “Blake — I think Philly might”

    It’d save them a little money….but if they want to compete in 2013 then they have to have that top 3 on the rotation

  98. blake October 27th, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    The anxiety stuff is a nonissue for me with Greinke….the issue for me is the contract and the fact that he really hasn’t been consistent enough to warrant what he will probably get…..he’s a good pitcher ….but Id rather sign Hamilton if they are going to spend that much money on a player…..I like the pitching they have if they can get it back

  99. RadioKev October 27th, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    Anyone see Kepner’s article today?

    Tyler Kepner ?@TylerKepner
    On Baseball: With Second World Series, Giants Perfect Their ‘Exit Strategy’ From Bonds Era http://nyti.ms/QMaK03

    About hitting for average, not for power. I’m sure some of you folks will love that. ;)

  100. The Return of Stoneburner October 27th, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    .the issue for me is the contract and the fact that he really hasn’t been consistent enough to warrant what he will probably get

    ******

    The same may be said of Hughes a year from now – and Greinke is a better pitcher – - – -

  101. austinmac October 27th, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    I don’t think the Yankees will add one player who costs over $5 million or so in 2014. That either means they fill the ten or more of the 25 man roster openings via promotions, trades or old guys. That what Cashman has been telling us. No one should confuse current statements with those made in 2009 or before. He means them now.

  102. blake October 27th, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    But I thought batting average was useless?

  103. blake October 27th, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    “The same may be said of Hughes a year from now – and Greinke is a better pitcher – – – -”

    Which is why they should try to lock him up cheap this winter…..if Hughes has another good year in 2013 he might command Cj Wilson money on the open market

  104. blake October 27th, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    Hughes is under contract another year…. Greinke is not.

  105. tomingeorgia October 27th, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    Dawgs vs Gators this afternoon. Trades and FAs can wait until after it’s over.

  106. The Genius Maker October 27th, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    The question of Gardner being better than Ichiro is absurd…of course he is. Ichiro was the worst every day player in baseball for almost 2 years. even when he was great he was overrated because he didn’t hit for power or walk. He was an excellent defender and fast like Gardner, but Gardner is so much better now it isn’t funny. I don;t want the no walk guys anymore. Unless Ichiro wants to stay for 2 maybe 2.5 mil I don;t want him…and honestly I would rather Dickerson anyway

  107. blake October 27th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    Lance Berkman Will Listen To Offers This Offseason
    By Mike Axisa [October 27, 2012 at 12:05pm CST]
    A few weeks ago we heard that Lance Berkman was leaning towards retiring after the season, but yesterday he told Joe Strauss of The St. Louis Post-Dispatch that he is still “not real sure” about his future. He will file for free agency after the World Series just to keep his options open, however.

    “I think it would behoove me to at least listen if there is an offer out there,” said Berkman. “But honestly I don’t know what is going to happen or what’s going to be my thought process.”

    Berkman, 36, was limited to 97 plate appearances this season due to a pair of right knee surgeries, the fourth and fifth knee surgeries of his career. Just a year ago he hit .301/.412/.547 with 31 homers while starting over 120 games in the outfield with the Cardinals, good enough for a seventh place finish in the MVP voting.

    There has been speculation that Berkman could return to the Astros as a DH next season since the club is shifting to the AL. He went to college in Houston and spent the first 12 years of his big league career with the ‘Stros. Berkman recently said he won’t come back unless his knee is 100% though, even if he is healthy enough to just DH.

    Cardinals GM John Mozeliak said “it’s hard to imagine finding a fit” for Berkman with the club next year, and Berkman admits that he has a long way to go with his conditioning before getting into playing shape. “My plan right now is to treat the offseason as if I was going to play next season by continuing my knee rehab and getting my legs back under me,” he said.

    Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....CQQdqkE.99

    If Lancelot could get healthy there are worse DH options….

  108. blake October 27th, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    “He was an excellent defender and fast like Gardner, but Gardner is so much better now it isn’t funny”

    Problem is that Garner has an 80 hurt all the time tool

  109. jacksquat October 27th, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    Gardner really only missed significant time this past year. I wouldn’t call him injury prone yet.

  110. tomingeorgia October 27th, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    blake,
    Heels vs Pack: what’s your bet?

  111. blake October 27th, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    tomingeorgia says:
    October 27, 2012 at 1:32 pm
    blake,
    Heels vs Pack: what’s your bet?

    Go Tar Heels!

  112. tomingeorgia October 27th, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    blake,
    Didn’t ask who you root for, who’s going to win?

  113. Nord October 27th, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    Ichiro in right, Gardner in center and Granderson in left field. Grandy is athletic, but his routes to fly balls are just not good. This gets you through 2013 and then all bets are off.

  114. blake October 27th, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    tomingeorgia says:
    October 27, 2012 at 1:40 pm
    blake,
    Didn’t ask who you root for, who’s going to win?

    Probably not the heels

  115. charlestonchew October 27th, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    There’s nothing wrong with having Gardner, Granderson, and Ichiro in the outfield. It gives us one of the best defensive outfields in the game and it adds an element of speed in two positions that we lacked this year. Sure, Ichiro isn’t who he used to be. But he’s still a solid player and I don’t really care to have Swisher back in pinstripes. Ichiro is also really liked by the fans and performed well in the postseason.

    Ichiro would probably be relatively cheap, too. I also don’t see a problem with the Yankees using Chris Dickerson as their every day right fielder. The guy is clearly talented and will hit a few balls over the wall if given a full time role. He’s also pretty speedy and a good defender. I’m pretty sure he could hit .270 with 20hr and 70rbi at least.

  116. Frankg October 27th, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    The Yankees don’t need a “perfect” team. They were almost beaten by a buch of no-names from Baltimore and were beaten by the Tigers, who have two stars in the field, a good pitching staff, and not much else. The Yankees were the best team in baseball on paper and were beaten by lesser teams that got hot and were motivated.

    Girardi and Cashman need to get a team that “works” and more pitching. Right field is the least of their problems.

  117. bennett.daryl October 27th, 2012 at 4:29 pm

    so how would everyone feel about Melky coming back? I remember him robbing manny ramirez of a homer back during an NYY-Sox game, and ive always liked him. Id like to see it, after the “incident.”

  118. KennyH123 October 27th, 2012 at 5:29 pm

    “he idea of Ichiro is a nice fit for the Yankees. It’s an idea of an elite right fielder who can hit for a high average, get on base a lot and steal some bags”

    .331 OBP is “getting on base a lot”??? What bizarro world is that? I don’t get the people who want Ichiro back. He can still slap some singles, but his BA is basically his OBP. Which is fine when he’s hitting .365. Not so good at .322…. And he’s good, not great, defensively at this point, has close to no power, and is in no way shape or form an every day player for a good team anymore.

    He also doesn’t steal as many bags, and is 38. Pass.

  119. NYY_Girl_Penny October 27th, 2012 at 5:55 pm

    *SIGN* *ICHIRO* !!

    Ichiro gave up on a dull boring dead mariners team the last couple years you cant count those stats as if he was playing his hardest! Gimme a brea. Ichiro is perfect for this team for at least another year, especially with Jeters uncertainty.

    Cracks me up that people wanna bring back minorleague martin.. Forget that ! There’s plenty of other better options available both FA and potential trades.

    why people want justin upton is beyond me. he is not yankee material at all. plus he isnt even that good. if he was an FA maybe.. trade talent for him ? SMH.

  120. Dill Pickler October 29th, 2012 at 3:55 pm

    Chad, here’s the problem I have with what you wrote, and what the writers of this blog always advocate: “at this point, the embarrassment has subsided a little bit …”

    It has? For who? You? Certainly not for many fans, and it certainly shouldn’t for the players themselves, who should be embarrassed and humiliated for the entire offseason, at least. But here’s the real problem: this isn’t the first time they’ve choked. It’s the third straight postseason these hitters have completely choked in the postseason (let’s not forget that without Ibanez’ heroics this woeful lineup gets drubbed out of the postseason in the first round again, by the Orioles). That’s what’s called a pattern. At some point, you have to realize that and make some changes. But you and the writers of this blog and many others always forget. “the embarrassment has subsided,” you say. Bull#$%#, I say! It hasn’t subsided, nor should it! Because if those of you who keep on letting it “subside” and then disappear, leaving you with amnesia of yet another horrible choke-job, get your say, no changes will be made. It’ll all be written off, yet again, as yet another bad coincidence of timing. They just happened to go into slumps at the wrong time. Again. So you’ll write. Bull#$%#! 3 years in a row (4 for some of them) is not a coincidence. It’s a pattern. O for 30 is not a coincidence. As the saying goes, the definition of insanity is someone who keeps doing the same thing (with the same roster) over and over and over again, and expects different results. It’s time to make some changes in this team of bloated, overrated, clutchless swing-for-the-fences every time lineup!

  121. FreeAgentSignee October 29th, 2012 at 7:51 pm

    I disagree Chad.
    Ichiro was reborn by a pennant race.
    Get a deal Ichiro, Yankees!

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