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Pascual Perez killed during robbery

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 01, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Former Yankees starter Pascual Perez was murdered at his home this morning.

According to multiple reports, Perez was stabbed in the neck during a robbery, with the attacker(s) possibly going after the MLB pension money which he recently received.

Perez played his final two Major League seasons with the Yankees. He had a largely successful career, including one All-Star appearance, but he’s mostly remembered as a quirky and flamboyant personality who once missed a start because he got lost driving to his home stadium.

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160 Responses to “Pascual Perez killed during robbery”

  1. Chip November 1st, 2012 at 11:46 am

    blake November 1st, 2012 at 11:45 am

    Depends on what the Yankees want from the DH spot. If they are ok with a traditional DH (someone who doesn’t field) then I think Hafner is the kind of low cost option they would look at. If they’re looking for someone who can “play” the field, then no, he’s not.”

    Hafner can’t stay healthy either
    ———————

    I don’t think that’s an issue. Consider: They didn’t shy away from bringing in injury plagued guys like Nick Johnson and Eric Chavez

  2. Chip November 1st, 2012 at 11:47 am

    I think a guy they’re going to look hard at is Carlos Lee.

    They can play him at DH and spot him in the OF against a LH pitcher when they want to use Alex at DH.

    He’s not a good fielder, but then again neither was Ibanez.

  3. ac1 November 1st, 2012 at 11:51 am

    Also, those comments from Boras could mean that Cano is as good as gone… Not good
    ____

    If they decide this is going to happen, they should look into trading him just to see what is out there. The Dodgers would definitely be in play for Cano.

  4. ac1 November 1st, 2012 at 11:52 am

    Regarding Carlos Lee, didn’t the Yankees try to trade for him at the deadline and he vetoed it? Why would he come to NY now?

  5. Chip November 1st, 2012 at 11:53 am

    ac1 November 1st, 2012 at 11:51 am

    Also, those comments from Boras could mean that Cano is as good as gone… Not good
    ____

    If they decide this is going to happen, they should look into trading him just to see what is out there. The Dodgers would definitely be in play for Cano
    —————————-
    Agreed.

    Even if Cano’s not as good as gone, if he really is going to command 8-10 years then I move him. There’s no way I want to go through with Cano what the team is going through with Alex in terms of watching a superstar decline.

  6. Chip November 1st, 2012 at 11:55 am

    ac1 November 1st, 2012 at 11:52 am

    Regarding Carlos Lee, didn’t the Yankees try to trade for him at the deadline and he vetoed it? Why would he come to NY now?
    ———————–

    2 reasons:

    1. If he wants to continue playing he might have to make some concessions as to where he goes.

    2. When he vetoed the deal the Yankees were telling him he was going to be a part time player, platooning with Ibanez at DH, playing a little 1b and a little LF. In this scenario he would be an every day player.

  7. jacksquat November 1st, 2012 at 11:56 am

    Please, no more DH’s in the OF.

  8. JobaTipsHisCap November 1st, 2012 at 11:56 am

    let cano, and make 4-5 yrs strong offer to another elite.

  9. ac1 November 1st, 2012 at 11:57 am

    I personally think that if the Yankees can’t unload A-Rod, HE should be the full time DH and we should give David Adams a shot at being the every day 3B next year. We dont need this ridiculous platoon DH.

  10. DONNYBROOK November 1st, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    My Max Guaranteed with Cano would be 6yrs. Anyway, I do Not see him being worth better than $20 Mill per. That kinda long-term coin should be reserved for Core players\Leaders. Cano has Never been a leader, and had the opportunity to do such when Jeet went down. Cano also palled around with Melky back in the day. Your also judged by the company you keep.

  11. ac1 November 1st, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    I actually have a real interest in seeing what ome of our prospects can bring to this lineup. I got so tired of seeing the same crap every day with the same overpaid players. Adams at 3B, if Cano gets traded (Corban Joseph), Melky Mesa, Ronnie Musteiler, Mark Montgomery, Austin Romine……

  12. Chip November 1st, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    ac1 November 1st, 2012 at 11:57 am

    I personally think that if the Yankees can’t unload A-Rod, HE should be the full time DH and we should give David Adams a shot at being the every day 3B next year. We dont need this ridiculous platoon DH.
    ———————-

    I agree with you. But I’m trying to balance what I would do with what the Yankees have been doing lately. Assume for a minute that Andruw Jones is not coming back – the Yankees are going to look for a veteran RH bat who can DH and be used in the OF. Lee fits that.

    On the other hand – the Yankees have shown no indication that they’re going to stop going with stop gap older players and let some kids play.

    My guess is that in addition to Alex at 3b we’ll see Eduardo Nunez, and/or David Adams traded off.

  13. ac1 November 1st, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    My Max Guaranteed with Cano would be 6yrs. Anyway, I do Not see him being worth better than $20 Mill per. That kinda long-term coin should be reserved for Core players\Leaders. Cano has Never been a leader, and had the opportunity to do such when Jeet went down. Cano also palled around with Melky back in the day. Your also judged by the company you keep.
    ____

    They both palled around with A-Rod so that company was in question long befire Melky tested Positive.

  14. ac1 November 1st, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    I agree with you. But I’m trying to balance what I would do with what the Yankees have been doing lately. Assume for a minute that Andruw Jones is not coming back – the Yankees are going to look for a veteran RH bat who can DH and be used in the OF. Lee fits that.
    ___

    Think Torii Hunter can fit this also. If we have him, Ichiro, Gardner, etc (I would look to trade Granderson), but even if they don’t thats a good 4 and Hunter can take his time at DH (though i think A-Rod should be the fill time DH (If he cant be traded).

  15. arsenelupin3 November 1st, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    Hey, how about a Pascual Perez comment? Sheesh.

    http://riveraveblues.com/2012/.....cher-63799

  16. austinmac November 1st, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    After someone commented on it yesterday, I did look at Hunter’s BABIP for last year. It was a ridiculous .389. While some of that may be the result of hard hit balls, that is completly unsustainable as would be his batting average. I say go younger.

  17. DONNYBROOK November 1st, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    Kuroda Nixed a trade to the Yanks, and then signed a contract with them, so Lee doing the same is Not unprecedented.
    In general, I am against signing gorillas\Lee\Hafner. Some of us previously went through this with George, and a team loaded with DH types is a killer on the field and in your living room.
    Going back several threads, I agree with the lady that expressed Not enjoying rooting for the 2012 Yankees. The 2012 Yanks were a grind. The attendance, and lack of noise at the playoff games in Yankee Stadium is also a reflection of this. A few of you lambasted her. No Yankee fan should get tarred-and-feathered for expressing their feelings here. To me, she seemed like a legit but frustrated Yankee Fan.

  18. Chip November 1st, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    ac1 November 1st, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    I agree with you. But I’m trying to balance what I would do with what the Yankees have been doing lately. Assume for a minute that Andruw Jones is not coming back – the Yankees are going to look for a veteran RH bat who can DH and be used in the OF. Lee fits that.
    ___

    Think Torii Hunter can fit this also. If we have him, Ichiro, Gardner, etc (I would look to trade Granderson), but even if they don’t thats a good 4 and Hunter can take his time at DH (though i think A-Rod should be the fill time DH (If he cant be traded).
    ——————-

    I would be happy with that.

    But I don’t think the Yankees will trade Granderson (no matter how much I would like them to).

    It isn’t in their nature. When was the last time Brian traded a semi-productive veteran player for prospects? I can’t think of a single time.

    I would be in favor of a Granderson for Haren swap – money’s a wash and I would be fine with an OF of Ichiro, Gardner and Hunter next season and it would prevent the Yankees from having to go multiple years on Kuroda or free them up to deal Phil Hughes (who will get far more money than he’s worth as a FA next winter)

    As much as I enjoy speculating about deals – I don’t see enough creativity in the front office to do it.

  19. jacksquat November 1st, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    11:02am: It appears likely that Ortiz will hit the open market, Rob Bradford of WEEI.com reports. Boston’s exclusive negotiating period ends Saturday morning, at which point Ortiz will be free to discuss a contract with any team. The Red Sox are expected to extend Ortiz a one-year qualifying offer.
    Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#CLCiOYPoiKJfBrKc.99

    If the Red Sox do not give him a qualifying offer, the Yankees should see if they can sign him for one year. But not worth losing a draft pick of course.

  20. DONNYBROOK November 1st, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    Would you guys trade Grandy for Hughes? Haren = Hughes.

  21. jacksquat November 1st, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    Chip, you don’t have to trade Granderson to get a Haren. That is crazy. They are trying to dump Haren, just pay probably what they would pay for the buyout (3.5) and get a mediocre prospect or two. Granderson is worth much more than that.

    And you want Haren instead of Kuroda? That’s crazy too. Kuroda is not going to want more than a one year deal.

  22. Chip November 1st, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    On a positive note: Nardi is no more.

    The Yankees have hired Gil Patterson as the team’s minor league pitching coordinator and reassigned Contreras to other duties within the organization.

    I have been calling for this for at least 3 years now. Contreras was an awful pitching coach who somehow failed up. Under his expert stewardship we have watched at least 4 highly touted pitchers fail to reach their potential (Hughes, Joba, Brackman, Betances) with a 5th unable to stay on the mound enough to know what he’ll be (Banuelos). It is at least in part because of him that this team has failed to develop a top level starting pitcher and has continued to watch prospect pitcher after prospect pitcher die on the vine.

    Gil Patterson has had amazing success in helping Oakland develop their stable of young starters and hopefully he can bring that to the Yankees.

  23. Against All Odds November 1st, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    ac1 November 1st, 2012 at 11:51 am

    Also, those comments from Boras could mean that Cano is as good as gone… Not good

    ———————-

    What comments from Boras?

  24. Irreverent Discourse November 1st, 2012 at 12:20 pm

    “We dont need this ridiculous platoon DH.” – That “ridiculous” platoon DH that resulted in the best DH production in the AL this year? Yes, actually… we do need more of that.

    Just say NO to Haren. actually, say NO twice.

  25. jacksquat November 1st, 2012 at 12:20 pm

    austinmac November 1st, 2012 at 12:10 pm
    After someone commented on it yesterday, I did look at Hunter’s BABIP for last year. It was a ridiculous .389. While some of that may be the result of hard hit balls, that is completly unsustainable as would be his batting average. I say go younger.

    I agree. I’d rather go with Melky for less money, and likely about the same performance, if not better.

  26. Cashmoney November 1st, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    I think Ortiz is def a guy worth losing a 1st round pick over. he is on par of a hitter with Hamilton. you can question age and durability which is the bigger concern. When Ortiz is DHing you need no others. btw, I think he def will get 2 somewhere, most likely with the Sox. Again, i won’t even bat an eye about losing the pick. He is that much offense threat and upgrade over whomever Yanks have. health, health, health would be red flag for me.

  27. jacksquat November 1st, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    Our DH production was because guys like Arod, Jeter, etc. were regularly the DH, and Ibanez, who was supposed to be our DH, was way too often in the outfield (which is why Arod DH’d so much).

  28. Chip November 1st, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    jacksquat November 1st, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    Chip, you don’t have to trade Granderson to get a Haren. That is crazy. They are trying to dump Haren, just pay probably what they would pay for the buyout (3.5) and get a mediocre prospect or two. Granderson is worth much more than that.

    And you want Haren instead of Kuroda? That’s crazy too. Kuroda is not going to want more than a one year deal.
    ——————-

    Given the nature of free agency, especially when it comes to pitching, if Haren hits the open market he’ll get a multi-year offer; probably in the range of 3 years $30mil. Now, while the AAV is lower than what it would be to get his option, the option is just a one year commitment.

    As for trading Granderson. I know, he led the team in HRs and that’s wonderful. But in reality he is Adam Dunn without the ability to recognize the difference between a ball and a strike.

    I don’t think you need a 40HR hitter who strikes out 250 times.

  29. Cashmoney November 1st, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    remember, if the Yankees does wind up with 3 or 4 1st rounders… they may not have the money to sign all of them, thus is the life under new CBA.

  30. jacksquat November 1st, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    Against All Odds November 1st, 2012 at 12:19 pm
    ac1 November 1st, 2012 at 11:51 am

    Also, those comments from Boras could mean that Cano is as good as gone… Not good

    ———————-

    What comments from Boras?

    Boras said something about the Yankees not wanting long multiyear deals and how it would hurt them. He seemed to be talking about Soriano, but that comment may have been more about Cano.

    Basically Boras just saying overpay or suffer.

  31. luis November 1st, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    JS,

    I was giving you my take of your proposal in a vacuum, not comparing it to the Hamilton’s strategy. I just thought that what you proposed was sound as well. Another way that I can support. That’s all.

    On Haren… At this point in time I rather stay with Hughes… The former is declining ( FB is down to 88 and his HOUR rate is trending the wrong way ), the latter is nearing his peak. So I say, let’s go younger in this case. No to Wells. No to Callaspo, we have either Nunez or Adams for that job, hopefully both and they are better with the stick.

    On Cano… I think that if they want an 8 to 10 year deal after the current one expires, he is as good as gone.

  32. jacksquat November 1st, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    Chip, Haren was not that good last year, his velocity is down, home runs way up, and there is a decent chance he won’t just bounce right back to previous form.

    Whatever you think of Granderson, you don’t need him in a deal for Haren. Granderson is worth more than what Haren will probably bring the Angels. Don’t forget that Granderson plays decent defense in CF, while Dunn is only a DH. It’s really not a good comparison.

  33. Chip November 1st, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    I said it very early on after the Yankees were eliminated. My greatest fear for this offseason is that Cashman turns around and says that despite the flaws, despite the injuries, this team had the best record in the AL East and made it to the ALCS and that they just got cold/hurt at the wrong time so he’s sticking with the way he’s done things.

    He’s already hinted that that’s how he’s leaning.

    It’s a real shame. With the mandate to get under the $189 threshold looming now is the time for creative thinking, to break away from the veteran on the decline who is willing to sign on as a bench player because he has no other options and instead inject some youth into the lineup.

    Tell Alex he’s the primary DH this year and let Adams play at 3b. Move a strikeout machine like Granderson, who you’re not going to resign anyway, and get some young players or prospects to augment a farm system that is devoid of upper level talent.

  34. Against All Odds November 1st, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    Thanks JF I appreciate it.

  35. jacksquat November 1st, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    Adams has not played AAA yet. I would move him up there for 2013 and have him play 2B with maybe a little 3B. The Yanks may need 2B insurance if things don’t work out with Cano.

  36. Chip November 1st, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    jacksquat November 1st, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    Chip, Haren was not that good last year, his velocity is down, home runs way up, and there is a decent chance he won’t just bounce right back to previous form.

    Whatever you think of Granderson, you don’t need him in a deal for Haren. Granderson is worth more than what Haren will probably bring the Angels. Don’t forget that Granderson plays decent defense in CF, while Dunn is only a DH. It’s really not a good comparison.
    ————————

    Whatever value Granderson has in the field is offset by the fact that he’s an almost automatic out against any pitcher who throws a half way decent off speed pitch.

  37. Chip November 1st, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    jacksquat November 1st, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    Adams has not played AAA yet. I would move him up there for 2013 and have him play 2B with maybe a little 3B. The Yanks may need 2B insurance if things don’t work out with Cano.
    ————————

    If Cano leaves it will be because the Yankees trade him. They will b*tch and moan but at the end of the day the Yankees will give him what he wants because the Yankee way is and has always been to keep their own free agents. They did it with Posada, did it with Jeter and will do it with Cano.

  38. Jerkface November 1st, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    Whatever value Granderson has in the field is offset by the fact that he’s an almost automatic out against any pitcher who throws a half way decent off speed pitch.

    But whatever value Granderson loses from this, his value is still high. Just like you could say the same for Swisher and that guy is going to get 15+ million per year for 4+ years in free agency.

  39. blake November 1st, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    @Rotoworld_BB: David Ortiz ‘likely’ to hit free agent market http://t.co/le34hWIT

    Big hairy monster !

  40. blake November 1st, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    The yanks should offer Ortiz a lot for one year

  41. DONNYBROOK November 1st, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    Whatever you might think of Grandy, any player that hits 40+ Hr’s, scores 100, and knocks in 100, has value. Getting these kinda numbers out of a CF’er is also a Plus. I would hold Grandy back for a J Upton\Headley deal.

  42. Against All Odds November 1st, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    Chip November 1st, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    On a positive note: Nardi is no more.

    The Yankees have hired Gil Patterson as the team’s minor league pitching coordinator and reassigned Contreras to other duties within the organization.

    I have been calling for this for at least 3 years now. Contreras was an awful pitching coach who somehow failed up. Under his expert stewardship we have watched at least 4 highly touted pitchers fail to reach their potential (Hughes, Joba, Brackman, Betances) with a 5th unable to stay on the mound enough to know what he’ll be (Banuelos). It is at least in part because of him that this team has failed to develop a top level starting pitcher and has continued to watch prospect pitcher after prospect pitcher die on the vine.

    Gil Patterson has had amazing success in helping Oakland develop their stable of young starters and hopefully he can bring that to the Yankees.

    —————-

    Music to my ears…this was a long time coming.

    It started with Connors and now Contreras. The results might not be there in the first couple seasons but down the line hopefully they are there.

  43. jacksquat November 1st, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    If Cano leaves it will be because the Yankees trade him. They will b*tch and moan but at the end of the day the Yankees will give him what he wants because the Yankee way is and has always been to keep their own free agents. They did it with Posada, did it with Jeter and will do it with Cano.

    I wouldn’t be so sure about that with the new financial constraints (and I don’t think that is only for a year or two, I think they intend to stay under the cap).

  44. Chip November 1st, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    Jerkface November 1st, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    Whatever value Granderson has in the field is offset by the fact that he’s an almost automatic out against any pitcher who throws a half way decent off speed pitch.

    But whatever value Granderson loses from this, his value is still high. Just like you could say the same for Swisher and that guy is going to get 15+ million per year for 4+ years in free agency.
    ——————–

    The difference between Swisher and Granderson is that Grandy will give you more power, but again, Swisher can get on base. Neither one of these guys is capable of making a productive out mind you – but that’s neither here or there. I would be happy to be rid of both of them and the style of baseball that they embody.

    All or nothing hitters (which is what they are) are great when you’re getting the all – but when they aren’t; when they’re facing the kind of pitching that they face in the post season – you get the results that you got. A team that leads the world in regular season runs but gets out RBI’d by Delmon Young in the playoffs.

  45. blake November 1st, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    Sounds like a good move on the pitching front

  46. Jerkface November 1st, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    Sure chip, but you have to divorce your personal distaste in those players and look at them in terms of what they can get on the free agent market or what their value is in a trade. You’re putting your own personal bias into it. Just like we went back and forth on Swishers value like 2 years ago.

    Even a 1 way, all or nothing player like Adam Dunn got 14 million AAV for 4 years.

  47. Doc Iac November 1st, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    God life sucks without baseball…

  48. jacksquat November 1st, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    Chip, people aren’t disagreeing with you that Granderson has faults, but he still has decent value. He’s not someone you just toss into a Haren deal (unless there were a lot more coming back).

  49. Nick in SF November 1st, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    “That contract seemed like a complete bust for the Yankees when Soriano battled injury and inconsistency in 2011, but this year was a perfect storm.”

    For shame.

    Pascual Perez RIP.

  50. Jerkface November 1st, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    2011 Granderson was on the path to get a 7 year deal or something crazy, but even now he could probably get 4 or 5 years on the free agent market.

  51. DONNYBROOK November 1st, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    With each passing day, Cashman’s authority in the Yankee Front Office is revealed to be increasingly minimal. Cashman is quickly becoming nothing more than a Front Man. Hal and Levine are, “the men behind the curtain”

  52. Chip November 1st, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    Against All Odds November 1st, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    Chip November 1st, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    On a positive note: Nardi is no more.

    The Yankees have hired Gil Patterson as the team’s minor league pitching coordinator and reassigned Contreras to other duties within the organization.

    I have been calling for this for at least 3 years now. Contreras was an awful pitching coach who somehow failed up. Under his expert stewardship we have watched at least 4 highly touted pitchers fail to reach their potential (Hughes, Joba, Brackman, Betances) with a 5th unable to stay on the mound enough to know what he’ll be (Banuelos). It is at least in part because of him that this team has failed to develop a top level starting pitcher and has continued to watch prospect pitcher after prospect pitcher die on the vine.

    Gil Patterson has had amazing success in helping Oakland develop their stable of young starters and hopefully he can bring that to the Yankees.

    —————-

    Music to my ears…this was a long time coming.

    It started with Connors and now Contreras. The results might not be there in the first couple seasons but down the line hopefully they are there

    ————————————-

    I’m not looking for him to turn chicken sh*t into chicken salad – just to stop bubble wrapping these guys so much that it stunts their natural abilities.

  53. luis November 1st, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    About Cano…. They should learn from their past mistakes… If he wants ten years, he should be gone… Even though I think he will age well in general, baseball is heading back to the days when a 36 year old player was the exception, not the rule… I still remember the 1979 Pirates team… Stargell was 36 or 37 and he looked like the dad of the rest of the team… If the FO doesn’t realize that they need to get younger and that you can’t keep on paying players past their primes, then we are in for a rude awakening.

  54. Against All Odds November 1st, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    just to stop bubble wrapping these guys so much that it stunts their natural abilities.

    ————

    Exactly that’s what we are all looking for.

    Let’s go Gil!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  55. Chip November 1st, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    jacksquat November 1st, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    Chip, people aren’t disagreeing with you that Granderson has faults, but he still has decent value. He’s not someone you just toss into a Haren deal (unless there were a lot more coming back
    ———————————

    See I’m not sure what his value is – he’s a 31 year old one dimensional player in his walk year. I think that given the value of pitching, Haren, who I don’t dispute had a bad year, has just as much or little value as Granderson does.

  56. Nick in SF November 1st, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    I don’t know what people are so excited about. Nardi Contreras has just been named Executive Vice President in Charge of Everything Important.

  57. Joe from Long Island November 1st, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    1. i bet having adams play 3rd is to see if he can fill the role that nunez was projected to play – someone who can play a couple of infield positions, and hit well enough. nunez can certainly hit, and can certainly run, but his d gives everyone agita. if the decision is made that adams is viable in that role, that makes nunez expendable as part of a deal.

    pat m said a while back that they were going to make a run at j upton; arizona is said to want a ml ready ss. cash has been pushing nunez as a ss and nothing else. throw in a ml ready starter, and you might have something. in any case, i think if adams makes enough of an impression, then nunez may be part of something. (bring back nix for ss as well as other backup. he did well in that role)

    2. very good news about gil patterson,who’s a very good person. he has a long relationship with the yankees, especially tampa. ron guidry once said he had the best arm ever, including his own. supposedly a very bright guy, and a very good coach. i’d love for his input on montgomery, kahnle, phelps, others.

  58. Jerkface November 1st, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    Haren, who I don’t dispute had a bad year, has just as much or little value as Granderson does.

    Then why are the Angels desperately trying to salary dump him? Granderson was above average this year. Haren was not.

  59. Chip November 1st, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    Jerkface November 1st, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    2011 Granderson was on the path to get a 7 year deal or something crazy, but even now he could probably get 4 or 5 years on the free agent market.
    ————————

    And I think that hurts his value. The fact that the free agent markets have been so thin means that one dimensional players like Granderson can command a large payday. So what team is going to trade someone of great value to the Yankees for him knowing that they’re going to have to overpay to keep him as a free agent the following year?

    It’s like the Santana vs. Sabathia situation. The Yankees passed on Johan not because they thought CC was the better pitcher, but because Cashman figured if he was going to spend $180 mil or whatever on a pitcher he wasn’t also going to trade good young players as part of the deal.

    So that’s why I don’t think Granderson brings back much more than a similarly flawed player, because in today’s game there’s no incentive for a team to trade young players for Granderson and then have to pay to keep him.

  60. blake November 1st, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    Nick in SF says:
    November 1, 2012 at 12:48 pm
    I don’t know what people are so excited about. Nardi Contreras has just been named Executive Vice President in Charge of Everything Important.

    Oh

  61. Chip November 1st, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    Jerkface November 1st, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    Haren, who I don’t dispute had a bad year, has just as much or little value as Granderson does.

    Then why are the Angels desperately trying to salary dump him? Granderson was above average this year. Haren was not.
    ————

    I don’t know their finances, perhaps they overextended themselves with the deals for Pujols and Wilson and want to clear some money so that they can keep Greinke?

    Or maybe they figure with a top three of Wilson, Weaver and Greinke they don’t need to pay $15 M for their fourth starter?

  62. Jerkface November 1st, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    Greinke is a free agent, they haven’t retained him yet.

  63. Jerkface November 1st, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    The Yankees passed on Johan not because they thought CC was the better pitcher, but because Cashman figured if he was going to spend $180 mil or whatever on a pitcher he wasn’t also going to trade good young players as part of the deal.

    So that’s why I don’t think Granderson brings back much more than a similarly flawed player, because in today’s game there’s no incentive for a team to trade young players for Granderson and then have to pay to keep him.

    But a team DID trade players for Johan, AND Cashman & Boston both offered better packages that were turned down by Minnesota. You keep acting like the team that trades for him must re-sign him, but thats not true. Carlos Beltran pulled a top prospect for half a season. Granderson has value.

  64. Chip November 1st, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    Jerkface November 1st, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    Greinke is a free agent, they haven’t retained him yet.
    ————-

    Which could go to point one, that they are looking to move him to free up money to sign Greinke (in which case they wouldn’t be interested in Granderson)

  65. Nick in SF November 1st, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    Joe from Long Island, I hope everything is okay in your neck of the woods after SuperStorm Sandy. Lots of LoHudders and former LoHudders without power.

  66. Irreverent Discourse November 1st, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    Am I missing something here… Lacking 1 of the 5 tools (hitting for average) does not make a player “1 dimensional”.

  67. jacksquat November 1st, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    Adams does not replace Nunez, he is not a SS.

  68. blake November 1st, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    November 1, 2012 at 1:02 pm
    Am I missing something here… Lacking 1 of the 5 tools (hitting for average) does not make a player “1 dimensional”.

    Kinda does offensively

  69. yankee21 November 1st, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    Chip, ref. Gil Patterson that is excellent news. About freaking time. The pitching philosophy in terms of coaching, getting guys to take the next step, and keeping them healthy has been abysmal. Nardi must have had some dirt on some higher-ups in the organization that kept him around. He royally sucked and glad to see him moved out of this responsibility.

    OTOH I guess this is all qualified by what position Nardi will have next in the organization, if his responsibilities expand and by virtue of that his impact on the organization can somehow become greater, then once again NYY brass’ decision making is once again ripe for criticism.

    The real question is what dirt does Nardi have on who?

  70. Chip November 1st, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    Jerkface November 1st, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    The Yankees passed on Johan not because they thought CC was the better pitcher, but because Cashman figured if he was going to spend $180 mil or whatever on a pitcher he wasn’t also going to trade good young players as part of the deal.

    So that’s why I don’t think Granderson brings back much more than a similarly flawed player, because in today’s game there’s no incentive for a team to trade young players for Granderson and then have to pay to keep him.

    But a team DID trade players for Johan, AND Cashman & Boston both offered better packages that were turned down by Minnesota. You keep acting like the team that trades for him must re-sign him, but thats not true. Carlos Beltran pulled a top prospect for half a season. Granderson has value.
    ————–

    The Mets got Santana for garbage because Bill Smith overplayed his hand with the Yankees and Red Sox.

    And the trade Houston made for Beltran cost them Dotel (they had Wagner & Lidge) and Buck. Where’s the top prospect?

  71. Eroc November 1st, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    MikeDiGiovanna
    Would not be surprised if #Angels try to send Haren & Wells to #RedSox, maybe for Lackey.

  72. Irreverent Discourse November 1st, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    blake – I don’t share your overly simplistic view of hitting then.

  73. Joe from Long Island November 1st, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    nick – we’re ok. many people have lost their homes, cars, and now living with relatives, or in hotels. some communities no longer exist, except in name.

    like most, we’ve lost electricity, cable. phone service and cell phones restored last night. when will power come back on? very slowly. we’re the lucky ones, we still have a home.

    lower manhattan devastated, flooded.

    thanks for the thought.

    if nuney is a ss, only – then he has no long term future on the yankees, not with jeter going full guns. i think that was cash’s way of making things clear with other gms. a young ss who can hit and has speed? they’ll argue his d detracts from his value, but, his bat, youth, and low salary will get a lot of attention.

  74. Irreverent Discourse November 1st, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    On June 24, 2004, the Astros acquired Beltran. They sent RP Octavio Dotel to the Athletics and prospect C John Buck to the Royals. The Athletics also sent 3B Mark Teahen and P Mike Wood to the Royals.

    It wasn’t just Dotel.

  75. blake November 1st, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    Irreverent Discourse says:
    November 1, 2012 at 1:12 pm
    blake – I don’t share your overly simplistic view of hitting then.

    It’s hit simplistic….the hit tool is the most important of the 5 and it’s not just batting average….if you have a hitter that has power but doesn’t hit for average or get on base at an above average rate then that player is pretty one dimensional at the plate

  76. Joe from Long Island November 1st, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    adams is not a ss –

    that is why nix would be retained.

  77. 86w183 November 1st, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    Haren finished the year strongly with a 2.81 ERA in his last eight starts.

    He actually had 20 or so quality starts, but had eight really awful ones.

    The eight awful starts = 10.04 ERA….. the other 22 = 2.78

    Basically a better version of AJ Burnett last year, with a much better track record when healthy.

    Yanks aren’t likely to have a “full-time” DH anytime soon because both A-Rod and Jeter will need to get at least one start a week in that role. I have no idea why some of you think a shared/rotating DH is a terrible thing. I’ve always preferred it to one guy taking up the spot.

    It’s especially valuable with an older club and the Yanks are certainly that.

  78. Joe from Long Island November 1st, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    and chavez would not be.

  79. Irreverent Discourse November 1st, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    blake – Then if you want to get “not simple” his BABIP was 30 points low this year, and then his numbers fall right in line with last year… I don’t think many were complaining last year.

  80. blake November 1st, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    Offer like Joba for Haren….. They need bullpen help and that saves them some money to use for Greinke

  81. blake November 1st, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    Irreverent Discourse says:
    November 1, 2012 at 1:15 pm
    blake – Then if you want to get “not simple” his BABIP was 30 points low this year, and then his numbers fall right in line with last year… I don’t think many were complaining last year.

    No but he wasn’t as good as last year and that’s the problem…..

  82. Jerkface November 1st, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    Beltran got the Giants top pitching prospect in 2011.

  83. Irreverent Discourse November 1st, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    blake- I’m sorry, what was that shortsighted opinion?

    Players have bad years, it’s known to happen on occasion in baseball.

  84. Jerkface November 1st, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    The Mets got Santana for garbage because Bill Smith overplayed his hand with the Yankees and Red Sox.

    Yea, but Smith overplaying his hand like a dumbie doesn’t negate the value that the Yankees were going to trade. They had Hughes on the table for a brief moment. The Red Sox had Lester or Ellsbury on the table. Smith wanted IPK with Hughes and he wanted both Lester & Ellsbury, but any package with any of those players would have been better than what he got. And they were available! He just messed it up.

    You think Cashman would mess up getting that kind of full value for Granderson?

  85. jacksquat November 1st, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    Rotating dh means backup infielders are your dh. That’s only ok if they can hit, like chavez and a little nunez. Otherwise it’s a terrible plan.

  86. blake November 1st, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    “blake- I’m sorry, what was that shortsighted opinion?

    Players have bad years, it’s known to happen on occasion in baseball.”

    Problem is that 2011 is the outlier in Granderson’s career ….not the other way around…..I never said he was a bad player…..I said he’s somewhat one dimensional offensively….especially if he’s not going to steal based anymore

  87. 86w183 November 1st, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    You can use OF a part of a DH rotation too…. it works just fine.

    The best Yankee team of the last 50 years, 1998 used rotating DH — Strawberry, Tim Raines and Chili Davis — that wasn’t a terrible plan

  88. Irreverent Discourse November 1st, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    blake- Grandersons career line of .262/.341/.492 is considerably more 2011 than 2012. He has never hit offspeed pitching, it’s not really a surprise that he isn’t now. His pitching and batting profile has not changed considerably, only the results of the balls in play. Whatever he did this year that caused his K rate to spike will hopefully be fixed in the offseason. It could be as simple as having someone else around him hitting the ball and changing the pitches he sees.

    You don’t think that after what he did last season, pitchers were extremely careful with him at the plate?

    Back to the point, he is still an incredibly useful player at any range of his production… not one that “needs to be” traded away for peanuts.

  89. 86w183 November 1st, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    Signing BJ Upton and moving Granderson to RF would make the Yanks much better defensively.

    Signing Upton and Melky and trading Granderson for Haren would be even better.

  90. Jerkface November 1st, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    Grandersons career line of .262/.341/.492 is considerably more 2011 than 2012. It could be as simple as having someone else around him hitting the ball and changing the pitches he sees.

    .249 .327 .453 .780
    .247 .324 .468 .792
    .262 .364 .552 .916
    .232 .319 .492 .811

    One of these looks like the outlier. Last 4 years.

    And why would pitchers stop attacking him in a manner that gets him out? He spent a lot of the year with A-rod, Cano, or Teixeira behind him. What super man do we need to acquire? Protection is overrated and basically nonexistent.

  91. jacksquat November 1st, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    I don’t think the 98 team was successful because of a rotating dh. That lineup was stacked. This team is nothing like that one.

  92. 86w183 November 1st, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    You guys see the thing about Brien Taylor heading to prison??

    I saw him pitch when he was in the Florida State League. He was strictly a fastball/curve guy but he was explosive… consistently 97 with the heat… 80-85 w/ hook which was nasty.

    Hurt his shoulder in a bar fight and was never the same. What a waste!

  93. blake November 1st, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    Granderson:

    Career ops: .834
    2011 OPS: . 916
    2012 OPS: . 811

    So which was closer to his career norm again?

  94. Irreverent Discourse November 1st, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    jerkface – Conveniently cutting out his other good season in your list is bad form.

    Also… Granderson hit .249/.341/.517 in the 2 hole this year. Not exactly making your case. He hit better when he was there.

  95. blake November 1st, 2012 at 1:44 pm

    “Back to the point, he is still an incredibly useful player at any range of his production… not one that “needs to be” traded away for peanuts.”

    Who suggested to trade him away for peanuts? You’re changing the discussion now…….

  96. Irreverent Discourse November 1st, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    blake – OPS? lol

    If we are going to ignore the advantages of looking at wRC+ and WAR and other GOOD metrics, we certainly won’t be making arguments based on OPS.

    Adding together 2 rate stats… HILARIOUS.

  97. Madrugador November 1st, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    I don’t see Granderson going anywhere but to the outfield in Yankee Stadium. He turns 32 in March. He only has 2013 before he tests the free agent market. Yes, he hit 43 regular season HRs but I don’t expect that kind of production to continue much longer. Just don’t think he is worth too much in a trade. That is not saying that he couldn’t be valuable next year just not for the more distant future. Yanks keep him for the year and Mason Williams after that?

  98. Irreverent Discourse November 1st, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    blake – I’m changing the discussion? I was responding to Chip’s ranting about trading Granderson away. You changed it when you involved yourself.

  99. blake November 1st, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    “If we are going to ignore the advantages of looking at wRC+ and WAR and other GOOD metrics, we certainly won’t be making arguments based on OPS.”

    You posted a slash line as your evidence ….lol…..you’re moving the goal posts away from whether Granderson is one dimensional offensively to his value overall as a player…..which we weren’t even discussing

  100. Jerkface November 1st, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    jerkface – Conveniently cutting out his other good season in your list is bad form.

    Also… Granderson hit .249/.341/.517 in the 2 hole this year. Not exactly making your case. He hit better when he was there.

    Convenient? How so? I gave you his last 4 years. That is most relevant. Its recent performance. Shall I post A-rod’s 24-27 campaigns as evidence of his coming season?

    Of course Granderson hit better in the 2 hole, he was in the 2 hole vs right handed pitching.

  101. 86w183 November 1st, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    I don’t think the 98 team was successful because of a rotating dh. That lineup was stacked. This team is nothing like that one.

    *************************************************************************

    What’s that got to do with anything?

    You are arguing that the concept/policy rotating the DH is a terrible idea. I disagree and offered evidence that even great teams have used the DH position for multiple older players.

    There’s nothing inherently wrong with the practice. It worked pretty well for the Yanks this year too.

    In a perfect world you would have younger position players who rarely need days off. Then you would want a full-time DH that hits all pitching, but that doesn’t happen often.

  102. blake November 1st, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    “blake – I’m changing the discussion? I was responding to Chip’s ranting about trading Granderson away. You changed it when you involved yourself”

    No….I disagreed with what you said about the hit tool and Granderson not being one dimensional offensively….I said nothing about what Chip said

  103. Jerkface November 1st, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    It worked pretty well for the Yanks this year too.

    It actually worked out poorly, because what happens with a bad rotating DH happend where a starter got hurt & then you had to play 2 backups every day. That is something to be avoided.

  104. Irreverent Discourse November 1st, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    Jerkface – Most projection systems only use the last 3 years, and they are weighted to the most recent ones… making his 2011 stats twice as useful as his 2010 stats, which are twice as useful as his 2009 stats… etc.

    blake – I get it, you are willing to write off a great player who experienced a career low BABIP. You can have your opinion. I don’t share it, and I’m not terribly concerned with the Yankee FO sharing it either.

  105. blake November 1st, 2012 at 1:52 pm

    If Ortiz hits free agency then the yanks should offer him a big one year deal

  106. blake November 1st, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    “blake – I get it, you are willing to write off a great player who experienced a career low BABIP. You can have your opinion. I don’t share it, and I’m not terribly concerned with the Yankee FO sharing it either.”

    No…I’m willing to say he’s somewhat one dimensional offensively…..you said that other stuff…..40 homers still has lots of value…. Even if it is one dimension

  107. Irreverent Discourse November 1st, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    jerkface – How do you anticipate the fielder getting hurt and not the DH? I was told that batting is more dangerous and more stressful on your body by… someone here… Best to just have the most talented colelction of 25 guys and go from there. Overspending on a player than can only contribute to half of the game doesn’t help you when players get hurt and this flawed guy (lets call him… Ibanez) has to play the field. They needed more Eric Chavez type players, not more DH-only type players this season.

  108. Jerkface November 1st, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    Most projection systems only use the last 3 years, and they are weighted to the most recent ones… making his 2011 stats twice as useful as his 2010 stats, which are twice as useful as his 2009 stats… etc.

    And his 2012 stats will be twice as useful as 2011 and 2012+2010 is overall more useful than 2011.

  109. Irreverent Discourse November 1st, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    Jerkface – “2012+2010 is overall more useful than 2011″

    No, not even CLOSE.

    You have to look at them all. You can’t just pick and choose what suits your arguement.

    Wasn’t he hurt in 2010? lol

  110. luis November 1st, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    Joe,

    Glad to hear that you are ok. I don’t think Cashman said those things about Nunez to up his trade value, but because they have a clear need of a SS in the near future. I don’t think Jeter can be expected to play short after his ankle injury. At least not next season.

  111. DONNYBROOK November 1st, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    The waffling Never stops. 1st Grandy issa “1 dimensional player”. Then he is, “sorta 1 dimensional”. And then he is, “kinda 1 dimensional”. Either man-up or man-out.

  112. Jerkface November 1st, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    No, not even CLOSE.

    You have to look at them all. You can’t just pick and choose what suits your arguement.

    Wasn’t he hurt in 2010? lol

    Uh yea close, because 2012+2010 is weighted more as a group than 2011 (It would be 5x(2012+2010)). He was out for a month in 2010 with a groin strain. He wasn’t good before or after the injury. It took K Long’s rebuilding to jump start his season with a month to go.

    I am doing no such picking and choosing, merely pointing out that his career numbers have little in common with recent history. OBP near his career average only once in the past 4 years. Batting average below it 3 out of 4.

    It took a dedicated rebuilding by the batting coach to squeeze one great season out of Granderson. He is an unknown, and his 2012 looks more like 2010 & 2009 than 2011.

  113. Irreverent Discourse November 1st, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    That’s not how that works?
    Even an extremely basic regression scheme would be…
    (3 * 2012) + (2 * 2011) + (1 * 2010)

  114. Jerkface November 1st, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    Bad math for me, but the point is the same. 2010 and 2012 as a group make up more of the total than 2011. And of course 2012 is still below his career by 40 points and its the highest weighting.

  115. blake November 1st, 2012 at 2:43 pm

    @YankeeSource: Torii Hunter career postseason BA: .305/.370/.489/.858 in 34 games.

    Clutchy clutcherson

  116. trisha - true pinstriped blue November 2nd, 2012 at 10:06 pm

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