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Lennon: Kuroda’s decision between Yankees and Japan

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 05, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

When Ken Davidoff left for the New York Post earlier this year, Newsday lost one of my personal favorites among the national baseball writers. But the move opened a spot for David Lennon, one of the truly nice guys in this business, and a nice addition to the national scene.

This weekend, Lennon offered his own expectations for the top free agents on the market, and it included this interesting note on Hiroki Kuroda:

Kuroda has told friends he’ll pitch for either the Yankees or the Hiroshima Carp next season but hasn’t decided yet. Also, he’s interested only in another one-year deal.

There’s little doubt that Kuroda enjoyed his year with the Yankees, and there’s no doubt the Yankees would like to have him back — hence the qualifying offer — but it’s hard to compete with a desire to go home. If Kuroda decides he’d rather go back to Japan, there probably won’t be much the Yankees can do to change his mind.

Among Lennon’s predictions, he sees Torii Hunter landing in Texas while the Yankees bring back Ichiro Suzuki to play right field. Lennon also sees the Yankees re-signing Russell Martin and adding Scott Hairston.

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197 Responses to “Lennon: Kuroda’s decision between Yankees and Japan”

  1. Chip November 5th, 2012 at 11:51 am

    By the way – just to get back to the Yankee donation of $500,000…Dwayne Wade donated his game check from playing the Knicks Friday night – that was $207,000.

  2. Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 11:52 am

    Take ‘em to the bank KURODA!!

  3. Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 11:52 am

    Repost:

    Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 11:49 am

    86 – Less than CC, more than Freddy. Somewhere in there.

    I don’t expect more than 80 regular season innings from Andy either, but he’d probably be worth at least $5 million to someone as a vet lefty starter. Double what his salary was last year (I think it was just $2 million). Might be more, quite frankly.

    And I’d give Mo $15. I really don’t care, I’d give him $15. What motivation do I have to care about what they make? I’d give Jeter whatever he wanted too, if he kept up at this rate – I think the Yanks are/were just praying he’d fall off on his own. And I hope they tell Mo to shop his services…. I’d loveeeee to see that. It was gross when they did it to Jeter, more disgusting was what they did to Jorgie, and I’d love to see them try that sh*t with Mo and act like they’d depend on Robertson (coming off a down year) to close.

    I can’t say there’s no limit, but these guys know more than anyone what their value is. They also know what the Yankees value is and their personal value relative to that. If Mo told 30 teams today he’s ready to sign a one year deal at $15, you’d have takers besides the Yankees, IMO. A one year pact for the best closer ever? I don’t care what injury he’s coming off of, if I’m Boston I sign him. What about Detroit? Think they could use the best closer ever? The Angels? they had some pen issues, no? One year guys like Kuroda and Mo should rake. They are low risk, high reward moves for the short term.

  4. Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 11:52 am

    Chip November 5th, 2012 at 11:51 am

    By the way – just to get back to the Yankee donation of $500,000…Dwayne Wade donated his game check from playing the Knicks Friday night – that was $207,000.

    —————

    Benevolence doesn’t fit in the budget.

  5. Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 11:54 am

    Repost:

    jacksquat November 5th, 2012 at 11:44 am

    I’d offer Pettitte 5-7 + incentives (innings pitched or starts made) that can take it up to around 10-12.

    Mo a similar type deal.

    These guys are going to be 41/43 and didn’t pitch a lot last year, they can’t reasonably expect big base salaries.
    ————————————————-
    Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 11:51 am

    squat – Fair, of course, but the Yanks have to budget those incentives in anyway.. you can’t just assume they won’t hit them for luxury tax purposes, so in that regard I don’t see much of a difference between giving them a higher or lower base. Either way, you need to prepare that they will hit their bonuses and drive up your total spending.

  6. Jerkface November 5th, 2012 at 11:55 am

    5 million for AP, give him start based bonuses for starts 15+ or whatever fine.
    10 million for Mo.

  7. blake November 5th, 2012 at 11:55 am

    Choose America Hiro!!!

  8. Chip November 5th, 2012 at 11:59 am

    I would say $12 for Rivera; $5 for Andy; $15 for Kuroda; $12/year for 2 years for either Ichiro or Hunter

  9. jacksquat November 5th, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 11:49 am

    I don’t expect more than 80 regular season innings from Andy either, but he’d probably be worth at least $5 million to someone as a vet lefty starter. Double what his salary was last year (I think it was just $2 million). Might be more, quite frankly.

    I would hope for more than 80 innings… So my offer was reasonable.

    And I’d give Mo $15. I really don’t care, I’d give him $15. What motivation do I have to care about what they make?

    Because they more you pay Pettitte/Rivera, the less there is for everyone else, it lessens the overall quality of the team. And we all want them to win, right?

    15 is too much. I think my incentive deals are fair. If they pitch and pitch well, they’ll get their money.

    You have to budget in what they could make, but if they get hurt or pitch badly (former more likely), then you can project that they won’t hit their incentives and know you then have money to pick someone else up mid season to help out.

  10. Cashmoney November 5th, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    tough call… the call of home.. really don’t know if Hiro has anything to prove in the states.

  11. 86w183 November 5th, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    Shame —-

    You seem like a brilliant business person. Give every employee everything they want. THAT’S a recipe for success for certain.

    I’m pragmatic, not emotional about such things. I agree with the alleged Cashman comment to Jeter during negotiations, “How much higher than the best offer do we have to go?”

    You really think Pettitte and Rivera might pitch elsewhere in 2013? I sure don’t.

    It’s romantic to think every career is going to end with a “Kumbaya” moment. When aging players insist on more $$ and more years and ownership has a limit to the lifetime achievement rewards feelings get hurt and egos get bruised.

    I hope it doesn’t happen with Rivera, Pettitte and Jeter (again), but I bet it does.

  12. jacksquat November 5th, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    $12/year for 2 years for either Ichiro or Hunter

    I only want those guys on one year deals, and definitely not 12 per.

  13. Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    Chip November 5th, 2012 at 11:59 am

    I would say $12 for Rivera; $5 for Andy; $15 for Kuroda; $12/year for 2 years for either Ichiro or Hunter

    ————————

    This sounds about right to me… and doesn’t save us any money from last year :D

    You give Kuroda and Andy raises and lower Mo’s a notch… but the amount is basically static, which was my overall point when talking to 86, that we’re not saving any money on pitching next year…. it only makes it scarier for 2014, tbh.

  14. Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    Because they more you pay Pettitte/Rivera, the less there is for everyone else, it lessens the overall quality of the team. And we all want them to win, right?
    —————

    But see.. you can’t really do this if you’re the Yankees and trying to get under a certain amount, right? You can’t say, well here is a lower base salary with incentives, because we need to sign other players…. because what you might end up with is other players, plus the ones you signed at the highest earning rate possible due to those incentives. You need to factor them in no matter what. I’d rather have a set, hard salary amount so I know exactly what I’m working with.

  15. Chip November 5th, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    Chip November 5th, 2012 at 11:59 am

    I would say $12 for Rivera; $5 for Andy; $15 for Kuroda; $12/year for 2 years for either Ichiro or Hunter

    ————————

    This sounds about right to me… and doesn’t save us any money from last year :D

    You give Kuroda and Andy raises and lower Mo’s a notch… but the amount is basically static, which was my overall point when talking to 86, that we’re not saving any money on pitching next year…. it only makes it scarier for 2014, tbh.
    —————–

    But you’re eliminating the money from Soriano.

  16. jacksquat November 5th, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    If Kuroda goes to Japan, they need to go after Greinke. Pettitte can’t be counted on to be a #2 (no idea on how many innings he can pitch), and no one else they have can either. Haren would not be an acceptable substitute, no big deal to Sanchez, etc.

  17. Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    86w183 November 5th, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    Shame —-

    You seem like a brilliant business person. Give every employee everything they want. THAT’S a recipe for success for certain.

    I’m pragmatic, not emotional about such things.

    —————

    I’m not emotional or pragmatic here.. I’m just being a fan. I don’t care about the Yankees payroll and I don’t care that the Yankees care about their payroll.

    If there is one team, just one, that would sign Mo for $15 million at a on year deal, than to me that’s what he’s worth. I think it’d be presumptuous to assume he wouldn’t have any takers on that deal. He’s literally been the most consistent bullpen pitcher in the history of the game.. this isn’t Bernie, so let’s not with that. This isn’t even Jeter, who has his own shortcomings at his position. To me, this is a different animal entirely and as I pointed out before you aren’t saving any money on your pitching, which was what you had mentioned in your first post.

  18. Jerkface November 5th, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    Can’t pay Hunter or Ichiro 12 AAV for 2 years.

  19. jacksquat November 5th, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    Shame, you missed or misunderstood what I typed after that. You budget in what they could make with incentives, and if they hit them, you are under budget, they pitched well and everything is fine. But if something happens, they don’t reach their incentives, and you can budget in a mid season pickup to help out.

  20. Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    But you’re eliminating the money from Soriano.

    ——————–

    I’m suspending it for now lol… I really don’t see the Yanks resigning him but I didn’t see them signing him in the first place. I’m pretty curious to see how that plays out… Sori probably gets lots of offers.

  21. Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    jacksquat November 5th, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    Shame, you missed or misunderstood what I typed after that. You budget in what they could make with incentives, and if they hit them, you are under budget, they pitched well and everything is fine. But if something happens, they don’t reach their incentives, and you can budget in a mid season pickup to help out.

    —————-

    I think this still spells trouble though.. the Yanks haven’t made a lot of impact mid-season moves. It could be because of budget and maybe this plan would counteract that and allow them to add a bigger piece if they needed one, but I don’t see that happening. It’s more likely they’d shrug their shoulders and say ‘oh well, that didn’t work, better luck next year.’ Mid-season moves can be game changers… but its also a more limited pool and you could still risk that the guys you need are out of your budget at that point.

  22. blake November 5th, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    If it becomes an either or on Hunter and Ichiro then Id go Ichiro if for not other reason than I think he will do a 1 year deal and I don’t think Hunter will

  23. Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    Jerkface November 5th, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    Can’t pay Hunter or Ichiro 12 AAV for 2 years.

    ———————

    $6 million per for one or the other does seem steep… but if one or the other is your starter, it’s still less than Swish was making, I guess?

  24. Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    I’d rather pay Mo $15 than pay Sori $15.

  25. DONNYBROOK November 5th, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    I have been saying for a while that Davidoff exposes Sherman for the Hack that he is. It’s easy to see why Davidoff gotta outta Dodge. Newsday has been spiraling downward for several years, as has the newspaper industry in general. Newsday was A-OK when Times-Mirror had it under it’s wing, but once that ended, Newsday began it’s rapid nose dive. That rag is now a ghost town.
    The free agent signings will sort themselves out. No need to speculate about who, how much, how long. If these guys wanna come here or return here, they will. The $$$ is at such a level, that it is Not the deciding factor it was once upon a time. Cashman needs to lay the groundwork at the GM Meetings for a Blockbuster. THAT, is what will make the Yankees a World Champion in 2013 and make the $189 Mill attainable.

  26. jacksquat November 5th, 2012 at 12:20 pm

    If they are going to do the one year thing in RF, they should see what Melky, Hunter, Ichiro and perhaps Ross would want for one year (if they’ll do one year) and then decide on what is the best deal for them.

    If Austin continues on his current path, he could play RF in 2014. Heathcott could be ready by then also (LF or CF). That’s optimistic, but possible. I think Williams is probably .5-1 year behind those two.

  27. Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    JF – Thoughts on TWD’s non-zombie baby? Was really hoping for a zombie baby situation.

  28. austinmac November 5th, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    Hunter would cost more money than Ichiro. Huinter will have other teams after him, but I doubt their will be a significant market for Ichiro. A 39 year old sub .800 OPS outfielder with declining defense is not a hot commodity.

    Many people don’t seem to understand the significance the cap will play over the next several years. It is not a matter of declining to pay a couple of players. Considering benefits and arbitration increases of existing players, they will need to cut $35-40 million elsewhere.

    Good luck with that with no prospects likely to be starters in the next two years. They will add old and cheap. No doubt about it. I expect the same team for next year without Soriano, Swisher and Jones. That team, considering the player losses and aging, will be worse.

    If they truly want to win, they can’t stay under the cap. However, they will and the results will be unpleasant for we fans.

  29. Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    “The free agent signings will sort themselves out. No need to speculate about who, how much, how long. ”

    Thanks Donny, for that LoHud public service announcement ;) You’re in for a long off season, my friend!

  30. Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    Like blake has said several times, if they don’t ‘hit’ with at least a few prospects, all of this is moot and they aren’t making $189…. or they are, and are just a real bad team.

  31. Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    Considering benefits and arbitration increases of existing players, they will need to cut $35-40 million elsewhere.

    Good luck with that with no prospects likely to be starters in the next two years.

    ——————

    Yeah, which is why they should just be all in for 2013. FTR, I don’t take issue with overpaying everyone on a one year pact this year (Andy, Mo, Kuroda) and letting them know now that ‘listen, we’ll open the checkbook for you this year but we have a hard cap next year so… (wink wink).’ But make no mistake about it, this is a big year. All these one year guys should be signed, no questions asked. A championship in 2013 would really make for an easy PR transition to 2014-2016.

  32. austinmac November 5th, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    Melky does seem to be the only player that is young and relatively cheap. Of course, MLB is still investigating him, so his availabiilty could change.

    Ross will not sign for one year. I think the Sox already offered him two. I agree Hunter will likely not sign for one either. That leaves Ichiro and three left handed hitting outfielders, two of whom have very little power.

  33. Cashmoney November 5th, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    or they are, and are just a real bad team.
    —-
    i think they be somewhat competitive. but the, if we trade our stars for prospects we will be real bad. in any case, mediocre or bad, makes no dif for me. maybe draft at 4 slot will net a future star, but prolly not. Kind of like the election, almost.

  34. austinmac November 5th, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    Shame,

    I don’t see good players taking one year, except the three ex-yankees you mentioned. If they won’t spend in 2014, it will greatly impact who will come in 2013. Make no mistake, they will be worse in 2013 because of that.

    But, I have a solution. Try to win now and in the future while continuing to make mounds of money.

  35. jacksquat November 5th, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    Can MLB possibly add another suspension for Melky for the website stuff? Is that within the CBA? If so, I guess all teams will be waiting on that if they are interested.

  36. DONNYBROOK November 5th, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    This gloom and doom stuff is simply you guys going thru withdrawal from actual games. If Cashman shows the where-with-all, the Yanks can add J Upton and possibly Headley. Phelps has Tremendous value to a team like SD\Headley\2yrs. Phelp’s high ceiling, years of control, and SP being what the Padres\Horatio have put out a BOLA on, make this a good matchup. Get your chin up fellas, it aint that bad. Make that Double-Chin for some of you.

  37. austinmac November 5th, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    jacksquat,

    All I can say is I read over the weekend MLB is investigating him for the cover up. I can’t remember where I read it. The union may well have something to say if they try further punishment.

  38. Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    “But, I have a solution. Try to win now and in the future while continuing to make mounds of money.”

    Stein is just worried about his great, great grand kids. You guys might laugh, but the Wilpon’s great great grandchildren will likely be living in a box next to Citifield, still trying to pay off the remainder of that contract to the Bonilla estate.

  39. jacksquat November 5th, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    The Yanks paid 26 mil total to Mo + Sori this year. They can make up a big chunk of the decrease in payroll by not spending that much on two guys in the bullpen. There won’t be another Mo, so no sense paying another closer big money after 2013. I would be comfortable with Robertson closing in 2013 if Mo were not coming back.

  40. austinmac November 5th, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    Donny,

    If Cashman can add young upside players, then our heads will be high with joy. I can’t think of anyone other than wishful fans who think they will. You far overvalue Phelps trade value. By a country mile.

  41. Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    squat – I’m unclear on what the situation with Melky is either.. but I dunno that the Yanks touch him even if he is the perfect fit.

    Donny – We’ve discussed both before, but be clear – Upton does not come as cheap as his current contract. He has a specific clause that would allow him to renegotiate with certain teams, the Yankees being on that list.

  42. austinmac November 5th, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    Shame,

    Debts don’t pass on unless they take the assets that go with them. Hal’s ancestors will likely be a bit better off than mine.

  43. DONNYBROOK November 5th, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    When you hear about Phelps being consistently asked for at the GM Meetings and the Winter Meetings, you’ll come around. He has RP’d and SP’d with great success. He was thrown into the heat of a Pennant Race, and came out Stronger for having gone thru the fire. Phelps value will become obvious to the doubters in the coming weeks.

  44. Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    austinmac November 5th, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    Shame,

    Debts don’t pass on unless they take the assets that go with them. Hal’s ancestors will likely be a bit better off than mine.

    ———————-

    Something we can all take comfort in during these difficult times ;)

    They just need to get creative. The problem is they haven’t shown a great aptitude for it which makes a lot of us doubt if they can pull it off… I’ve already offered up ALL the players for Headley and/or Upton and/or Gordon and/or Olt lol.

    Getting two of those four could completely change the complexion of the team.

  45. DONNYBROOK November 5th, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    Just who do you guys believe Hal voted for? Mitt or Obama???

  46. Duh Innings II November 5th, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    One year $5M for Mo take it or leave it.

    He owes the Yanks a discount for getting injured doing something he shouldn’t have been doing (shagging flyballs.)

    He tempted fate for years shagging flyballs and it unfortunately caught up to him.

    $5M means he earns $20M for essentially one year of work because his nine games in 2012 was hardly pitching for the Yanks.

    He barely did anything for his $15M for 2012.

    He should not be rewarded for a nine-game season he had cuz he had to shag flyballs.

  47. Jerkface November 5th, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    $6 million per for one or the other does seem steep… but if one or the other is your starter, it’s still less than Swish was making, I guess?

    12 AAV means 12 million per year, which is what Chip said. 24 million for 2 years total. Too steep. Too old.

  48. blake November 5th, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    If the Yankees traded for Upton and Headley (even if they had enough to get both) ….it would pretty much wipe out their farm system and younger big league players …….it would certainly help short term…..but it might hurt the long term……signing Josh Hamilton would help the short term and allow you to keep the prospects and young players to go with him……

  49. blake November 5th, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    If they can get Hamilton at 5 years or less then they should sign him and shop Granderson for a 3b or SS prospect

  50. Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    Jerkface November 5th, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    $6 million per for one or the other does seem steep… but if one or the other is your starter, it’s still less than Swish was making, I guess?

    12 AAV means 12 million per year, which is what Chip said. 24 million for 2 years total. Too steep. Too old.

    —————–

    Oh I must have misread his post, I thought he meant 12/2 like… 6 per. $12 mil a year for either seems like a bad move.. you could probably get a better investment for that rate.

  51. DONNYBROOK November 5th, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    Josh Hamilton does NOT = Upton and Headley, AND he makes attatining the $189 Very difficult. You factor in signing Cano on Top of whatever your paying Hamilton, and it’s “Say good night Gracie” to the $189. Trade Cano NOW inna Blockbuster.

  52. Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    blake November 5th, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    If the Yankees traded for Upton and Headley (even if they had enough to get both) ….it would pretty much wipe out their farm system and younger big league players …….it would certainly help short term…..but it might hurt the long term……signing Josh Hamilton would help the short term and allow you to keep the prospects and young players to go with him……

    ————–

    I prefer that too but don’t see them doing it… if they could even get just one of Headley/Upton/Gordon, that might not be too expensive in terms of prospects though. I think maybe that could be the route they take. Target the one guy you want that can really help you, give up a bunch of prospects/MLB players for him, and hopefully be able to keep a nice crop that you can still harvest later. Depends on how much they trust their self scouting.

  53. Patrick November 5th, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    If they can get Hamilton at 3 years or less then they should sign him and shop Granderson for a 3b or SS prospect

    Fixed that for you… I would not go more than 3 years for him. He’s a disaster waiting to happen

  54. blake November 5th, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    “Josh Hamilton does NOT = Upton and Headley”

    Id love to have both of those players….but there are two problems 1) Im not sure the Yankees have enough to get one of them let alone both 2) acquiring them would require trading the young players they will need to help offset the long term payroll to reach their budget goals.

    You can trade for Upton or Headley now …..but what’s happens when you need more players later and have no prospects coming anymore? You have to spend money……so you either spend now or spend later……

    The only way the Yanks are getting under this cap and staying competive longtime is to develop players they can cheaply control for 6 years……trading those guys away now could be counterproductive.

    That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t check on Uptpn and Headley…..but it does mean they need to weigh carefully their assets when deciding what to do

  55. Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    I think they’d come off Upton given they can’t control his salary… that’s gotta be a real issue in pursuing him. I’d think they’d be more likely to target someone else, given that caveat.

  56. Jerkface November 5th, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    Theres no way they are going to lose all of: joeseph, adams, williams, sanchez, austin, heathcott trading for Upton/Headley, so I’d be comfortable trading for either or both of those guys

  57. Jerkface November 5th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    Shame,

    TWD has definitely been a lot better this season. Some of the characters are still cringeworthy & the action is somehow even less believable (ok 10 year old headshot machine), but things are happening at a much brisker pace. There is also less hidden information which the audience knows that is being used to drive the plot (like the affair or whatever), so the main character can appear to be less stupid & time wasty.

  58. blake November 5th, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    “Fixed that for you… I would not go more than 3 years for him. He’s a disaster waiting to happen”

    If he bridged the gap to younger players then I wouldn’t even care about years 4 and 5…..you have to know going in that he may fall off a cliff at 34

  59. Patrick November 5th, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    blake,

    Definitely not willing to take a risk on another $20 million a year player if he’s going to be worthless for half the deal…

  60. bruceb November 5th, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    Most ball clubs would be able to assemble a superb roster on $189 million. Trouble is the Yankees are not “most ball clubs.” It’s like asking a multi-millionaire to switch from doing his weekly shop from Whole Foods to Shoprite. Our players expect to be paid top dollar – even when they’re not worth it on recent form.

  61. blake November 5th, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    “Theres no way they are going to lose all of: joeseph, adams, williams, sanchez, austin, heathcott trading for Upton/Headley, so I’d be comfortable trading for either or both of those guys”

    It all just depends on what they’d cost

  62. DONNYBROOK November 5th, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    Trade Cano, Grandy, Phelps, Nova, Hughes, (any 2), Bushers, + $$$ (covers portion of Grandy salary, OR substitute Gardner), get back J Upton, Headley, Hill, and scraps.

  63. blake November 5th, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    “blake,

    Definitely not willing to take a risk on another $20 million a year player if he’s going to be worthless for half the deal…”

    I don’t think he will be worthless in 5 years….just don’t think he will be elite anymore…..he may be great for 2 more years…..nick Swisher for 2 more….and then a DH for 1……Id sign up for that.

    Again I think you have to look at 1) if they can even get a Justin Upton or Chase Headley 2) if the cost to acquire them would be counterproductive .

  64. blake November 5th, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    Id rather give Hamilton 5 years starting in 2013 than cano 7 or 8 years starting in 2014.

  65. Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    JF – I think they have a cap on how many black people can be on this show at once. I knew as soon as T-Dog got LINES early in the episode he was probably gonna die. Michonne is sweet though, I hope she kills Andrea in her sleep so we have less hapless women on this show.

    I never read through all the comics but my understanding is that Lori’s death was wayyyy worse in there, so I wanna check it out.

    Can’t Act Carl is going to be trying to act more now that he has all these demons of seeing his mother’s dilated vagina, assisting with her ad hoc c-section, and having to murder her. Thank god all the therapists on earth are dead because I wouldn’t want to have to deal with this kid’s issues. I’m concerned about having to see him act-cry going forward.

    Andrew Lincoln is awesome.

    How did Luna Lovegood and Herschel ride this one out so easily?! That whole missing a limb thing is probably gonna be more of an issue for him than it is for Merle…..

    (Do other members of LoHud wish they watched this show just because of my above recap? C’mon.. you’re curious about the c-section..)

  66. Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    blake November 5th, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    “Theres no way they are going to lose all of: joeseph, adams, williams, sanchez, austin, heathcott trading for Upton/Headley, so I’d be comfortable trading for either or both of those guys”

    It all just depends on what they’d cost

    ——————

    In light of Upton’s contract, that’s a problem for me now… I wouldn’t be willing to give up as much in prospects and I dunno that the Dbacks couldn’t find a better deal elsewhere.

    I’d focus on Gordon or Headley, since they don’t come with that problem.. the whole point would have to be that the guy you get back is cost controlled. If you end up paying $15+ million for Upton and giving up key prospects, that doesn’t help us much.

  67. DONNYBROOK November 5th, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    Nunez is my ace-in-the-hole.
    Any way you go, there is NO way the Yanks can sign Hamilton, and then re-sign Cano. That would be roughly $45-$50 Mill for those 2 players yearly. NOT gonna happen.

  68. jacksquat November 5th, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    Cano for Kemp and Castellanos.

  69. blake November 5th, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    Jeter SS
    Melky LF
    Cano 2B
    Tex 1B
    Hamilton RF
    Arod 3B
    Ibanez (or DH of Choice)
    Martin C
    Gardner CF

    This lineup is possible without trading a single prospect…..actually you gain prospects if you can trade Granderson

  70. Chip November 5th, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    Jerkface November 5th, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    $6 million per for one or the other does seem steep… but if one or the other is your starter, it’s still less than Swish was making, I guess?

    12 AAV means 12 million per year, which is what Chip said. 24 million for 2 years total. Too steep. Too old.
    ————–

    Ichiro made $17mil and Hunter made $18mil so $12 is a pretty significant pay cut. Offer them less than $10 and they would just as soon head into the sunset Jermaine Dye style.

  71. Chip November 5th, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    blake November 5th, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    Jeter SS
    Melky LF
    Cano 2B
    Tex 1B
    Hamilton RF
    Arod 3B
    Ibanez (or DH of Choice)
    Martin C
    Gardner CF

    This lineup is possible without trading a single prospect…..actually you gain prospects if you can trade Granderson
    ——————-

    So’s a rotation of CC, Greinke, Kuroda, Pineda and Andy – and I think that’s just as likely as a Yankee lineup with Hamilton and Melky :-)

  72. Jerkface November 5th, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    Ichiro made $17mil and Hunter made $18mil so $12 is a pretty significant pay cut. Offer them less than $10 and they would just as soon head into the sunset Jermaine Dye style.

    Well then they aren’t really worth retaining/signing. .

  73. blake November 5th, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    @ESPNNYYankees: Agent: Soria would set up for Mo http://t.co/eOtwd9E8

  74. blake November 5th, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    “So’s a rotation of CC, Greinke, Kuroda, Pineda and Andy – and I think that’s just as likely as a Yankee lineup with Hamilton and Melky ”

    You don’t need that rotation…..Sabathia, Kuroda, Pettite, Hugjes, Phelps/Pineda/Nova is just fine

  75. Chip November 5th, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    Jerkface November 5th, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    Ichiro made $17mil and Hunter made $18mil so $12 is a pretty significant pay cut. Offer them less than $10 and they would just as soon head into the sunset Jermaine Dye style.

    Well then they aren’t really worth retaining/signing. .
    ————-

    I would gladly take Hunter for 2 years at $12/year over any other FA option available right now – including re-signing Swisher.

  76. Chip November 5th, 2012 at 2:17 pm

    blake November 5th, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    “So’s a rotation of CC, Greinke, Kuroda, Pineda and Andy – and I think that’s just as likely as a Yankee lineup with Hamilton and Melky ”

    You don’t need that rotation…..Sabathia, Kuroda, Pettite, Hugjes, Phelps/Pineda/Nova is just fine
    —————-

    Just pointing out the unlikelihood of the Yankees signing Hamilton and/or Melky.

  77. Jerkface November 5th, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    I would gladly take Hunter for 2 years at $12/year over any other FA option available right now – including re-signing Swisher.

    Can’t pay 12 million for a 38 year old torii hunter or a 40 year old ichiro.

  78. blake November 5th, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    They should absolutely do a one year deal with Soria….he will be motivated…..and Mo is his idol….do it Cash

    Rivera, Robertson, Soria, Joba , Montgomery would have lock down potential

  79. Chip November 5th, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    blake November 5th, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    @ESPNNYYankees: Agent: Soria would set up for Mo http://t.co/eOtwd9E8
    —————-

    The question is how much he would want to be paid to do so. Give him a Soriano contract and he would be fine setting up for most closers.

  80. blake November 5th, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    “Just pointing out the unlikelihood of the Yankees signing Hamilton and/or Melky.”

    Doesn’t mean they shouldn’t do it!

  81. Chip November 5th, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    Jerkface November 5th, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    I would gladly take Hunter for 2 years at $12/year over any other FA option available right now – including re-signing Swisher.

    Can’t pay 12 million for a 38 year old torii hunter or a 40 year old ichiro.
    —————-

    I said one or the other. I wouldn’t mind an outfield of Ichiro and Hunter with either Gardner or Granderson but that’s not going to happen.

  82. Patrick November 5th, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    @ESPNNYYankees: Agent: Soria would set up for Mo http://t.co/eOtwd9E8

    Cool I’ll take him for 1 yr @ league minimum

  83. blake November 5th, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    Soria is gonna want a one year deal to re-establish his closer value I think

  84. Chip November 5th, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    blake November 5th, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    “Just pointing out the unlikelihood of the Yankees signing Hamilton and/or Melky.”

    Doesn’t mean they shouldn’t do it!
    —————–

    I don’t think they should touch Hamilton. I watched the way he fell apart last year and the way he dealt with the relatively tame Texas media – he and NY would be a disaster.

  85. jacksquat November 5th, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    I don’t think they really need Soria, not that I would hate it, but that is money probably better spent elsewhere.

  86. Tyler November 5th, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    I still think Hamilton ends up with the Cubs… Theo is going to try to make a big splash. I would love to have Soria on a 2 year deal. When right, he’d really for a solid 1-2-3 with Robertson and Rivera.

  87. Chip November 5th, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    blake November 5th, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    Soria is gonna want a one year deal to re-establish his closer value I think
    ————–

    If he (or Madson) were willing to take a deal like the one Aardsma took, I would be all for it. But I think there will be teams out there willing to pay him to close for one year rather than set up for one year.

  88. Jerkface November 5th, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    I said one or the other. I wouldn’t mind an outfield of Ichiro and Hunter with either Gardner or Granderson but that’s not going to happen.

    Thats why I said or? Paying either one a premium rate for their non-premium talents at their incredibly non-premium ages is foolish. They got their contracts when they were still supposed to be good. Hunter got his as a centerfielder with an .830 OPS. Ichiro got his coming off a season he hit .351.

    We do not need either of them on the team bad enough to overpay in a way that will impact the Yankees ability to win in 2014.

  89. Chip November 5th, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    Tyler November 5th, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    I still think Hamilton ends up with the Cubs… Theo is going to try to make a big splash. I would love to have Soria on a 2 year deal. When right, he’d really for a solid 1-2-3 with Robertson and Rivera.
    —————-

    My bet is Boston. Ton of freed up money, no outfielders and desperately in need of another bat in that lineup.

  90. Jerkface November 5th, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    Soria might not be able to pitch in 2013, so if they sign him they need to do it aardsma style with an option.

  91. Chip November 5th, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    Jerkface November 5th, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    I said one or the other. I wouldn’t mind an outfield of Ichiro and Hunter with either Gardner or Granderson but that’s not going to happen.

    Thats why I said or? Paying either one a premium rate for their non-premium talents at their incredibly non-premium ages is foolish. They got their contracts when they were still supposed to be good. Hunter got his as a centerfielder with an .830 OPS. Ichiro got his coming off a season he hit .351.

    We do not need either of them on the team bad enough to overpay in a way that will impact the Yankees ability to win in 2014.
    ——————

    I guess the difference is that I don’t think it’s an overpay for either of them at $12mil. I would pay the higher money if it meant not getting a longer term contract. $12mil for one or two years is better (IMO) than $8 or $9mil for 3 years.

  92. CompassRosy November 5th, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    Chip November 5th, 2012 at 11:51 am
    By the way – just to get back to the Yankee donation of $500,000…Dwayne Wade donated his game check from playing the Knicks Friday night – that was $207,000.

    - – - -

    Happy to say the company I work for has donated $200k to their own Employee Relief Fund (specifically designated for East Coast Employees) as well as a general $200k donation to the Red Cross.

    And then there’s this other “Seattle-related” help…
    http://tinyurl.com/brer7j4

  93. blake November 5th, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    Soria is supposed to be ready ST

  94. Tyler November 5th, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    Chip-

    I’d definitely put Boston as a front runner for him. Honestly, that wouldn’t upset me at all. He’s a good player but very injury prone and really had an inconsistent year last season. His final numbers were great but he definitely had his share of issues both on the field and off. I’d hate to see those issues covered by the Boston media, haha.

  95. Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    If you’re gonna spend $12 million per on Hunter, I really don’t see any reason not to go after a better option instead.

    How much did Swish make again? Was it $12 or 13 million or did I make that up?

  96. Jerkface November 5th, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    A 1/10 or 1/12 deal for either, sure, but you can’t put 12 mil on the books for 2014 on a super old dude.

  97. Jerkface November 5th, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    Soria is supposed to be ready ST

    Supposed to but its his second TJS and he is older so the recovery isn’t as certain.

  98. Tyler November 5th, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    The only way I’d pick up Soria would be on an Aardsma type contract. I remember the Yanks getting nothing out of Dotel on a 1 year deal… I wouldn’t risk 1 year of a guy off surgery even if he is ready for ST.

  99. Chip November 5th, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    Tyler November 5th, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    Chip-

    I’d definitely put Boston as a front runner for him. Honestly, that wouldn’t upset me at all. He’s a good player but very injury prone and really had an inconsistent year last season. His final numbers were great but he definitely had his share of issues both on the field and off. I’d hate to see those issues covered by the Boston media, haha.
    ————

    I could see both Hamilton and Greinke winding up in Boston and both of them being disasters.

  100. Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    @OnionSports

    Dallas Cowboys Release Jerry Jones http://onion.com/UugFpz

    *Sigh*…I wish.

  101. Chip November 5th, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    If you’re gonna spend $12 million per on Hunter, I really don’t see any reason not to go after a better option instead.
    ————–

    There aren’t any better options. Even if you want to argue that Hamilton or Swisher are better options, they’re going to want longer term deals.

  102. blake November 5th, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    Lemmi ask you guys this.

    Lets say you can sign Hamilton for 5/115 and you know it’ll take 8/180 to sign Cano next year……which do you pick if you can only sign one?

    Would you rather have both Hamilton and Cano for 2013 and then let Cano walk…..or have only Cano for 2013 and re-sign him for 8/180?

    IMO 5/115 for Hamilton would be a better contract than 8/180 for Cano…..I think both guys could decline rapidly in their mid 30s…..with Hamilton you’d only have a year or two of decline…..with Cano you may have 3 or 4.

  103. Tyler November 5th, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    Chip November 5th, 2012 at 2:29 pm
    Tyler November 5th, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    Chip-

    I’d definitely put Boston as a front runner for him. Honestly, that wouldn’t upset me at all. He’s a good player but very injury prone and really had an inconsistent year last season. His final numbers were great but he definitely had his share of issues both on the field and off. I’d hate to see those issues covered by the Boston media, haha.
    ————

    I could see both Hamilton and Greinke winding up in Boston and both of them being disasters.
    ———————————————————–

    I don’t see Greinke ending up there at all. I already made my Hamilton to the Cubs prediction but it wouldn’t shock me if Boston got him since he really is a good player still despite all of the questions surrounding him. I’d think that Cherington exhibits some restraint considering the situation they just got out of…. I’m not sure he’s dumb enough to sign 2 huge contracts right after that but maybe he is.

  104. blake November 5th, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    BTW I’m not suggesting to give Soria a lot of money…. I don’t see how he could command that much

  105. Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 2:34 pm

    Chip November 5th, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    Shame Spencer November 5th, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    If you’re gonna spend $12 million per on Hunter, I really don’t see any reason not to go after a better option instead.
    ————–

    There aren’t any better options. Even if you want to argue that Hamilton or Swisher are better options, they’re going to want longer term deals.

    —————-

    It makes trading for a more expensive Upton more palatable though… If he can negotiate within the $15 AAV range, I’d be more willing to pursue that.

  106. Tyler November 5th, 2012 at 2:34 pm

    blake November 5th, 2012 at 2:31 pm
    Lemmi ask you guys this.

    Lets say you can sign Hamilton for 5/115 and you know it’ll take 8/180 to sign Cano next year……which do you pick if you can only sign one?

    Would you rather have both Hamilton and Cano for 2013 and then let Cano walk…..or have only Cano for 2013 and re-sign him for 8/180?

    IMO 5/115 for Hamilton would be a better contract than 8/180 for Cano…..I think both guys could decline rapidly in their mid 30s…..with Hamilton you’d only have a year or two of decline…..with Cano you may have 3 or 4.
    —————————————————————–

    Wouldn’t Cano “age” better than Hamilton simply due to playing 2B as opposed to an outfield spot? I don’t want to go 8/180 on Cano since that would kill the budget but I could see Cano still being a top 5 2B even at 37.

  107. blake November 5th, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    “Wouldn’t Cano “age” better than Hamilton simply due to playing 2B as opposed to an outfield spot? I don’t want to go 8/180 on Cano since that would kill the budget but I could see Cano still being a top 5 2B even at 37.”

    Cano’s swing would age well but his approach may not…..same with Hamilton

  108. Bronx Jeers November 5th, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    Kuroda has told friends he’ll pitch for either the Yankees or the Hiroshima Carp next season but hasn’t decided yet.

    ————

    Kind of gives new meaning to the phrase “Yankee Go Home !” as in does he

    A. Remain a Yankee
    or
    B. Go home

  109. Tyler November 5th, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    Cano’s swing would age well but his approach may not…..same with Hamilton
    ——————————————————————–

    I would probably go with Hamilton just for the difference of 3 years. I think in 5 years time, Cano will be a better player than Hamilton without even considering position. Hamilton makes me nervous over time…

  110. luis November 5th, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    Blake at 1:07,

    Very good post.

    Shame at 1:26,

    Very good post as well

  111. Tyler November 5th, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    But I still wouldn’t want Cano until he is 39. That could be brutal. I’d rather lose Hamilton from the payroll at 36.

  112. Chip November 5th, 2012 at 2:41 pm

    blake November 5th, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    Lemmi ask you guys this.

    Lets say you can sign Hamilton for 5/115 and you know it’ll take 8/180 to sign Cano next year……which do you pick if you can only sign one?
    ————–

    In that scenario I would pass on Hamilton and trade Cano.

  113. blake November 5th, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    @jcrasnick: I asked execs & scouts what Josh Hamilton will get as free agent. Estimates ranged from 3 x 20M to 5 x 26M. http://t.co/uwbfV2QJ

    They definitely should sign him within most of that range…..Id get nervous towards the upper limit but people forget how good Josh Hamilton can be…..

  114. blake November 5th, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    “In that scenario I would pass on Hamilton and trade Cano.”

    That’s fine but your team would probably suck ;)

  115. Cashmoney November 5th, 2012 at 2:49 pm

    That’s fine but your team would probably suck
    —–
    if cashman reach that same decision, then he needs to look for opportune moments to trade some of other pieces that has value. then the intent of signing ap, kuroda or guys not long for future could be turn into valuable pieces to a contending team. blake, NYY fans needs to have some patience.

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