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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Cutting corners: Looking for places to save

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 06, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Getting below the luxury tax threshold is a goal for 2014, but it’s a goal that has to be in mind as the Yankees face this offseason. Where are they best positioned to save money going forward, and where are they going to have to spend?

Rotation
Spend
Ivan Nova is a year away from salary arbitration. Phil Hughes is due one more arbitration raise, then the Yankees are going to have to decide whether to commit to him long term. CC Sabathia is already signed at big money.

For the time being, the Yankees can limit their long-term spending by giving short-term deals to Hiroki Kuroda and Andy Pettitte, but that doesn’t change the fact they’re going to have to spend on starting pitchers going forward. David Phelps could help lighten the load, and there’s still a chance the Yankees could get a cheap year or two out of Michael Pineda, but it’s hard to count on Dellin Betances or Manny Banuelos at this point, and guys like Nik Turley, Brett Marshall and Jose Ramirez have yet to be tested in Triple-A.

Unless the Yankees pull off a trade for a young, cheap starter — and teams certainly aren’t looking to trade those guys — the Yankees are going to have little choice but to put significant money into their rotation.

Bullpen
Save
There would be some comfort in bringing back Rafael Soriano, but the Yankees system does seem ready to fill some gaps in the bullpen. Dave Robertson still has two more years of arbitration eligibility. Joba Chamberlain’s injuries have limited his arbitration raises. There’s a chance that Cesar Cabral or Juan Cedeno will offer some cheap left-handed help. Mark Montgomery and Chase Whitley are moving quickly through the minor leagues and could be ready to contribute as early as next year.

It’s clear that Mariano Rivera will be back, but that’s a 2013 commitment that’s not going to be a drain on the 2014 payroll. And the Yankees will get a cheap look at David Aardsma next season before deciding whether he’s worth bringing back in 2014 and beyond. The Yankees have quality bullpen pieces in place, so they can take a conservative approach to relief spending this winter.

Infield
Spend
Mark Teixeira and Alex Rodriguez are under contract through 2016 and 2017 respectively, and both are unlikely to be traded without the Yankees picking up the bulk of the spending. Derek Jeter has a relatively cheap player option for 2014, but filling his role into the future is likely going to require some sort of significant pickup (even Eduardo Nunez will likely be into his arbitration years by 2015). Robinson Cano’s contract expires after this season, and keeping him — or somehow replacing him — will require big money.

Even if the Yankees fully believe in the ability of either David Adams or Corban Joseph to become an everyday big leaguer, it’s hard to envision a truly cheap infield in the Yankees future. A middle infield of Nunez and Adams/Joseph would cut costs considerably — and Angelo Gumbs could be in the mix in a few years — but are the Yankees really going to immediately transition from Jeter and Cano to a pair of young guys?

Outfield
Save
If the Yankees want to keep Curtis Granderson beyond this season, they’re going to have to spend serious money to sign a 40-homer center fielder to a multi-year contract. But the Yankees might not have to spend big to keep Granderson in their outfield.

Brett Gardner is already in place — and a little bit cheaper than expected because his injury-shortened season cost him some earning power in an arbitration year — and Gardner gives the Yankees flexibility as a guy who can be a plus defender in center or left. Two of the Yankees elite prospects are center fielders, and arguably their best minor league bat is right fielder Tyler Austin (who got to Double-A this season and could legitimately be big league ready sometime in 2014).

As the Yankees found with Andruw Jones in 2011 and Raul Ibanez in 2012, it’s possible to get fairly cheap, short-term production in the outfield corners. The Yankees could commit to similar role players for this year, or give guys like Chris Dickerson, Ronnier Mustelier and Zoilo Almonte a legitimate chance to play off the bench. Add a guy like Ichiro Suzuki or Torii Hunter on a fairly affordable two-year deal, and the Yankees could fill their current outfield while keeping themselves in position to slide some cheap, young talent into position relatively soon.

Catcher
Save
The Yankees could go cheap behind the plate, but that doesn’t mean they will or even should. With Russell Martin coming off such a bad batting average, his earning potential — even in a thin market — might be somewhat limited (compared to what it might have been otherwise). The Yankees could take advantage and bring Martin back on a relatively affordable deal. It’s still going to take multiple years and a sizeable contract, but a Martin deal isn’t going to break the bank.

Or, if the Yankees really wanted to use their money elsewhere, they could roll the dice with Austin Romine. It would be a remarkably bold strategy for a franchise like this – especially given Romine’s back problems — but it could be moderately feasible with so many solid defensive catchers already in place to back him up and provide one-dimensional insurance. Say the Yankees do give Martin a three-year deal, that would basically wipe out the window for Romine to be their everyday guy before the anticipated (if all goes well) arrival of Gary Sanchez. I don’t think the Yankees will or should go that route, but if they really wanted to spend that money elsewhere, it’s theoretically possible.

Associated Press photos 

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151 Responses to “Cutting corners: Looking for places to save”

  1. Chip November 6th, 2012 at 9:22 am

    How about Curtis Granderson and Austin Romine to the Braves for Brian McCann?

    With Bourn a FA Granderson fills a need for them in CF, though admittedly it would create a hole for them behind the plate.

    Yankees can move Gardner to CF and sign both Ichiro and Hunter to flank him.

  2. blake November 6th, 2012 at 9:26 am

    I don’t think the braves will trade Mcann….he’s their hometown guy and biggest fan favorite probably after Chipper is gone

  3. MTU November 6th, 2012 at 9:27 am

    I don’t think a 2014 Ro of CC, Hughes, Nova, Phelps, and Pineda would be very expensive.

    Warren/Banuelos/Marshall as the BU’s.

    Not sure if the Yankees would feel comfortable with that but if all went well it’s doable.

  4. The Return of Stoneburner November 6th, 2012 at 9:27 am

    Mark Montgomery and Chase Whitley are moving quickly through the minor leagues and could be ready to contribute as early as next year.

    *****

    And Nick Goody – a 2012 draftee that finished the year in High A Tampa and was a closer in college for Louisiana I believe – - – -

  5. austinmac November 6th, 2012 at 9:28 am

    If Martin is let go along with Swisher, that loses close to 50 homers. For ateam who loves the big hairly long ball guys, that shortens the lineup significantly. While Martin has his flaws, Romine +/or Stewart or Whiteside will make the already iffy offense that much worse.

    The winter has to include, I would hope, some effort to replace Swisher’s offense. It can’t just be players leaving. How about they do something to add players, preferably those who have not recently been in the dumpster or the social security office?

  6. The Return of Stoneburner November 6th, 2012 at 9:28 am

    Unless the Yankees pull off a trade for a young, cheap starter — and teams certainly aren’t looking to trade those guys — the Yankees are going to have little choice but to put significant money into their rotation.

    *******

    But lohud GMs have told me otherwise – I am confused now – - – -

  7. MTU November 6th, 2012 at 9:28 am

    They could always pick up a veteran to supplement that 2014 Ro if necessary.

  8. Yankee Trader November 6th, 2012 at 9:30 am

    Good morning-

    Chip-

    McCann had a larger tear in the labrum than what was expected by MRI. Might not be fully recovered till May. I like David Ross and there are rumors the Yankees are interested but he likes playing for the Braves plus he’s a Georgia boy.

    I’d be happy with a tandem of Ross and Romine with another of one of the FA catchers in AAA

  9. Shame Spencer November 6th, 2012 at 9:31 am

    If squat is out there, I see you commented again on the Cano/Kemp deal and I think you misunderstood me – players can be traded to teams that are given a window to negotiate, of course I understand that and it has been done. But doing it with Cano/Kemp doesn’t make sense for the Dodgers at all and could end up biting the Yankees in the ass. LA would have to deal one of their star players under a long term contract on the chance that Cano would agree to their terms with just a year before free agency. It’s a risk for both the Dodgers and the Yankees if they can’t find a number that works for them… which, with Boras as his agent and the terms left on his current deal is highly unlikely. If the deal would fall through, you’d have issues for both clubs. It’s just not a deal that makes sense, even with a window, for a guy like Kemp.

  10. blake November 6th, 2012 at 9:32 am

    If the Yankees are able to add a legit outfielder to replace Granderson in the lineup then I think they should use Granderson to try and target a young 3B or SS…..Id target Rendon as he’s blocked at the big league level and his stock is down enough that they might just be willing to do that to fix their CF issue…

    Rendon is a legit 3B who is good defensively and could move fast if he can stay healthy this year…..adding him to the group they already have would make for a very strong wave of position players that could start filtering up in 2014.

  11. Shame Spencer November 6th, 2012 at 9:33 am

    They’re not letting Martin go. :(

    Anyone wanna take bets that he’s the first guy signed?!

  12. blake November 6th, 2012 at 9:37 am

    Id bring back Martin for a year….I wouldn’t go beyond that unless the AAV is very low….like 5 million or less…..they just don’t have the payroll room starting in 2014 to pay 7 or 8 million for a catcher who may not play much better than replacement level…..Romine is apparently healthy now and doing ok in the fall league…..Id get a good backup and hand him the keys before I have Martin 3 years…..a 3/21 type contract for Martin could seriously hamstring them in 2014 and 2015 if they are short something and can’t get it because they are paying Martin

  13. Yankee Trader November 6th, 2012 at 9:40 am

    The Post article entitled ” Yankees’ GM Cashman to meet with Tori Hunter” makes no mention in the article of Hunter being at the GM meetings tomorrow or even if his agent is attending.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....PDGsJpJLKK

  14. MTU November 6th, 2012 at 9:41 am

    YT-

    I’m feeling that one.

    Think Hunter is a definite possibility.

    ;)

  15. BIG AL November 6th, 2012 at 9:42 am

    I like the idea of Soria. If he comes back from TJ, then he could very well be the closer of the future, low risk, high reward.

    MTU -

    18, really? Is that 18 years per extremity? Have a safe hike, and keep the faith.

  16. MTU November 6th, 2012 at 9:43 am

    Grandy LF

    GGBG CF

    Hunter RF

    Ichiro ?

  17. MTU November 6th, 2012 at 9:44 am

    Al-

    Thanks.

    I never lost it. That would be one heck of a B’day present.

    ;)

  18. Yankee Trader November 6th, 2012 at 9:45 am

    Hi Shame. Hope things are better for you now in Jersey.

    Is the website entirled “The Greedy Pinstripes,” yours? :)

    Blake-

    Martin won’t accept a one year deal. If the Yankees go 2/16 I’d almost rather they look at Pierzynski and Ross, or just Ross and Romine and use the money saved with R&R, to get a corner OF power bat.

  19. blake November 6th, 2012 at 9:47 am

    There aren’t any available catchers Id want to go past one year for

  20. tucker November 6th, 2012 at 9:48 am

    How brilliant was Billy Beane’s willingness to trade two young proven starters (Gio Gonzales and Trevor Cahill) for two younger, cheaper starters in Tommy Milone and Jarrod Parker. He broke conventional wisdom in trading young starters before free agency and it paid off big time for the A’s. Yanks should consider that type of deal if they want to push the payroll down.

  21. BIG AL November 6th, 2012 at 9:48 am

    Hunter, just anouther bandaid Cashman will try putting on a major wound, and hope the bleeding stops.

    I imagine, if the day ever comes, the Mets are real contenders again, and NY turns their eyes away from the Yankees if large enough numbers, then, maybe, they get serious about putting a better team on the field, go younger, get players that can hit with RISP etc. Until then, just one more over the hill gang coming up next season.

  22. BIG AL November 6th, 2012 at 9:50 am

    Me, I’d prefer AJ behind the plate on a 2 year deal, than Martin for another day.

  23. UnKnown November 6th, 2012 at 9:51 am

    Today is a HUGE DAY!

    Like Aaron Boone 11th inning 2003 ALCS Game 7 huge.

    Do the right thing people. Especially you Cashman go and get Josh Hamilton.

  24. blake November 6th, 2012 at 9:51 am

    AJ is old though and highly unlikely to repeat 2012…..

  25. MTU November 6th, 2012 at 9:54 am

    Al-

    Correctamundo.

    Will respond to emptier pockets.

    Otherwise, it’s team 189 until they limbo under.

    Free Geritol for all Yankee players until then.

    :)

  26. BIG AL November 6th, 2012 at 9:54 am

    tucker November 6th, 2012 at 9:48 am
    How brilliant was Billy Beane’s willingness to trade two young proven starters (Gio Gonzales and Trevor Cahill) for two younger, cheaper starters in Tommy Milone and Jarrod Parker. He broke conventional wisdom in trading young starters before free agency and it paid off big time for the A’s. Yanks should consider that type of deal if they want to push the payroll down.

    ***********************************************************

    You assume the Yankees FO has the same understanding of baseball talent as Billy Beane, lol. Cashman only goes after players are their down side in years and talent, for the most part.

  27. MTU November 6th, 2012 at 9:56 am

    Blake-

    AJ P doesn’t have to repeat last season exactly to be better than Martin.

    I think the White Sox will re-up him.

    Even if they don’t I don’t think the Yankees want to spend the coin.

    Looks like they might try to go cheap ?

  28. Yankee Trader November 6th, 2012 at 9:57 am

    Big AL-

    I’m in on Soria even though it was his 2nd TJ. I read that it was a 50% tear of the UCL, so maybe he’ll make it all the way back.

    I just hope that, although very unlikely, Soriano and Boras don’t take the QO by this Friday, which will put a dent on where they spend resources elsewhere.

    A July Pen of fully healed pitchers would be great:
    Rivera
    Soria
    Robertson
    Joba
    Logan
    Aardsma
    And another non-LOOGY lefty

  29. MTU November 6th, 2012 at 9:57 am

    Romine was supposed to be in the picture last year but he hurt himself.

  30. MTU November 6th, 2012 at 9:59 am

    YT-

    Soriano is not going to take the QO. Don’t worry.

    The other lefty in your pen is Jeremy or Cabral.

    Kuo is the only other reliever who I can cite who is pitching after 2 TJ’s.

    It’s possible. He’d have to be real cheap. It not a great bet longterm.

  31. BIG AL November 6th, 2012 at 10:00 am

    It’s my understanding the new Yankees to be signed this off season have already been given endorsement deals with Jazzy Power Chairs, the very same they’ll use to patrol the OF, and round the bases, should they get on.

    Bye for now, I’m off to vote!

  32. MTU November 6th, 2012 at 10:00 am

    I think we should try to work w the Royals.

    We match up well with them.

  33. MTU November 6th, 2012 at 10:02 am

    Al-

    I voted weeks ago.

    What took ya’ so long.

    :)

  34. austinmac November 6th, 2012 at 10:02 am

    I think Martin would require two years. I would give it to him as options are very limited.

  35. Yankee Trader November 6th, 2012 at 10:02 am

    BIG AL-

    I’m more concerned that this coming season is entitled “Team, a Smidgen over 178,” before it gets to “Team 189.” :(

  36. MTU November 6th, 2012 at 10:03 am

    YT-

    You sure you’re not a closet CPA ?

    :)

  37. Cashmoney November 6th, 2012 at 10:04 am

    It’s bold move to use Romine and Ross combo because the uncertainties and injury history. but there is nothing remarkable about Martin. take away the hrs, you have a hacker who consistent put out rallies and a hitter who simple swing the same way under any situations. I can understand the rational of martin one year on the cheap. Martin is certainly above replacement level but I think there are enough guys out there with similar skillsets and can be acquire with a fraction of what i think Maritn would cost. I think Yankee will ultimately give him a two year deal but i could be wrong. The idea I have in mind in approaching Martin situation is short term and cheap.because he is simply ordinary. my personal preference is AP for 2 or even napoli with a solid D catcher to back him up. There a slew of guys like buck, olivo, shoppach if one prefers go a cheaper route.

  38. Bronx Jeers November 6th, 2012 at 10:04 am

    Lots of question marks on that 2014 rotation MTU. I’m just starting to trust Phil at this point.

    Hunters agent is also Justin Uptons. It’s good to start the bridge-building early. :smile:

    I’ve always liked Torii and hes a fine athlete but he does put up lots of K’s. I guess that’s ok if it’s Swish he’d be replacing.

  39. Yankee Trader November 6th, 2012 at 10:05 am

    MTU-

    I’m off to vote soon also. My absentee ballot never arrived and the early voting lines were too long the day I went. Now I get to stand in the rain and beat the lunch voters!

  40. Cashmoney November 6th, 2012 at 10:06 am

    i like the idea of Soria if the Yanks can sign him to 4 mil deal. potential reward can be great. the risk is obviously a guy hurting himself again after 2 TJ.

  41. DONNYBROOK November 6th, 2012 at 10:06 am

    - QUESTIONS THAT CASHMAN MUST GET ANSWERED AT GM MEETINGS –

    (1) A-ROD – How much of that contract will Hal have to eat, in order to attract interest?

    (2) HEADLEY\ J UPTON – Available? Price?

    (3) CANO\ GRANDY \ NUNEZ – Level of interest? Rate of return?

  42. austinmac November 6th, 2012 at 10:07 am

    Doesn’t anyone have a problem is the Yankees simply replace above average players with below average ones? Many say get rid of Swisher and Martin, and them replace them with lesser players. Worse players make the team worse. Hence, more losses and less fun.

    If the goal isn’t to improve the team, at least don’t intentionally make it worse. Oh wait, it is cost saving. Good for them and bad for us.

  43. Cashmoney November 6th, 2012 at 10:08 am

    Doesn’t anyone have a problem is the Yankees simply replace above average players with below average ones?
    ——-
    mac, it’s nov 6. what declaration do you want us to make?

  44. Yankee Trader November 6th, 2012 at 10:10 am

    There are some positives with Hunter, IF, he can duplicate his 2012 numbers on a 2 year contract.

    He hit rightiea and lefties >.300
    He had 14 assissts
    He still has some speed

    Until later everyone.

  45. MTU November 6th, 2012 at 10:11 am

    Jeers-

    I understand. The Yankees do not generally like risk.

    It might be an option depending on how things go this year.

    That will give them more data to work with.

    Even at that I’d say it’s unlikely.

    Yup. Good to build those bridges.

    I’ve always like Hunter too. Except when he talks Yankee smack.

    He’s a definitely a stopgap guy but like Ichiro he might be inspired playing for a winner.

    I haven’t given up on the JU idea, or on the possibility of Gordon.

    :)

  46. MTU November 6th, 2012 at 10:12 am

    Yt-

    Watch out for those hanging chads.

    ;)

  47. Jerkface November 6th, 2012 at 10:13 am

    There are some positives with Hunter, IF, he can duplicate his 2012 numbers on a 2 year contract.

    He hit rightiea and lefties >.300
    He had 14 assissts
    He still has some speed

    Until later everyone.

    Signing Hunter and planning on him repeating a career year ain’t good. His BABIP was off the charts last year. 79 points above his career average.

  48. blake November 6th, 2012 at 10:14 am

    I wouldn’t give Hunter 2 years …..he’s old and they hopefully won’t need him in 2014

  49. Yankee Trader November 6th, 2012 at 10:14 am

    MTU-

    What’s your definition of CPA? I’m afraid to ask. Certified Public %$#&.

    Go take a HIKE :)

    Talk to you later.

  50. blake November 6th, 2012 at 10:14 am

    Ichiro will do a one year deal…..that alone makes him more attractive than Hunter.

  51. MTU November 6th, 2012 at 10:15 am

    YT-

    Will do. I’ve got my own mountain to climb.

    :)

  52. Shame Spencer November 6th, 2012 at 10:17 am

    Trader – I saw that link!!! That picture at the top is amazing! I wish I had invented it….. man.. I may need to start a Team Greedy blog before one of you jokers copyrights my idea…

  53. MTU November 6th, 2012 at 10:17 am

    Blake-

    IMO the Yankees can afford to lose some power as long as they replace the O in other ways.

    Having Suzuki and GGBG in the OF and losing Martin’s 20 dingers might be a little much though.

    Hunter has way more power than Ichiro.

    You know what I want.

    ;)

  54. G. Love November 6th, 2012 at 10:18 am

    A multi-year deal to Tori Hunter would be met with a collective yawn. This is exactly the kind of transparent band-aid that patches a hole in the boat, but never improves it.

    You only give him a year at most. If you pay him into his 40′s, you might as well give Cano 10 years and 250 million and pay him into his 40′s. How do you tell Boras, we’ll only pay Cano to 38 when you’re giving out deals to guys like Hunter to play into their 40′s?

    If Cashman’s plan is to plug holes with old and cheap, the fans will lose interest. They already are.

    Bringing back Ichiro for a year is nice because he’s a contact hitter who thrived here in his time here and was popular.

    I’d rather have Ichiro than Hunter.

    That being said, signing the 2005 all star team in 2013 is probably not a great plan.

  55. Yankee Trader November 6th, 2012 at 10:18 am

    JF-

    Hunter will get 2 years from someone, and I agree his 2012 year might not be able to duplicate that BABIP.

    Personally I hope if the Yankees sign him it’s for one year, and at a team friendly incentive low base contract.

  56. Shame Spencer November 6th, 2012 at 10:19 am

    Hanging chads!!! Oh dear, how did I forget to make that joke today..

    Chad’s Girls apologize, Chad.

  57. MTU November 6th, 2012 at 10:19 am

    Good morning Madame Shame.

    Pleasure to see you in attendance.

    :)

  58. blake November 6th, 2012 at 10:19 am

    -Hamilton, Gardner, Ichiro/Hunter outfield
    -Romine /Ross catcher
    - trade Granderson for Rendon
    - sign Soria to one year cheap deal
    - keep prospects

  59. Shame Spencer November 6th, 2012 at 10:20 am

    Is Hunter > Swisher?

    No?

    I’d pass.

  60. austinmac November 6th, 2012 at 10:20 am

    Cashmoney,

    It seems to me many say replace Swisher with Cashman and Martin with Romine and Cervelli. I believe both replacements make the team worse.

    I agree, as an aside, with JF’s assessment of Hunter. Look for a .260 average next year as his BABIP returns from the stratosphere.

    What I would really like is some small clue, any clue, that would suggest the Yankees see the offensive problems, see the aging problem and have an intention to do the best they can to remedy them. Instead, it is the same pursuit of old players who can be signed for the short term that interest them.

    I don’t pretend to know who can be acquired and at what cost. I do know if your not looking you won’t find your needs.

  61. Shame Spencer November 6th, 2012 at 10:21 am

    blake November 6th, 2012 at 10:19 am

    -Hamilton, Gardner, Ichiro/Hunter outfield

    ————–

    We need 4 OFers. I’ve been a champion of resigning Ichiro as well but I only want him as a part of some sort of rotating OF position. I don’t want him to be expected to start 162 games. Same goes for Hunter if they pursue him instead.

  62. blake November 6th, 2012 at 10:21 am

    A wave of Sanchez, Hearhcott, Williams, Austin, and Rendon is the type of thing they need to get under this cap longterm and stay a title contender

  63. MTU November 6th, 2012 at 10:22 am

    Cash-

    I believe they see them but I think the Budget is paramount right now.

    Unfortunately.

    P.S. I think they can be creative if they wish.

    :(

  64. blake November 6th, 2012 at 10:22 am

    “We need 4 OFers”

    Well you know they are going to sign Jonesy so there you go ;)

  65. austinmac November 6th, 2012 at 10:22 am

    “replace Swisher with Ichiro”–replacing Cashman must be on my mind

  66. Shame Spencer November 6th, 2012 at 10:25 am

    Yankee Trader November 6th, 2012 at 10:05 am

    MTU-

    I’m off to vote soon also. My absentee ballot never arrived and the early voting lines were too long the day I went. Now I get to stand in the rain and beat the lunch voters!

    —————-

    Were you the one that asked about voting via email or a form sent via email? I used to vote absentee when I lived in NYC, but since I’m back in the dirty Jerz I hadn’t paid much attention to what the voting situation was (I live around the block from my voting site).

  67. DONNYBROOK November 6th, 2012 at 10:25 am

    Just how do the Yanks sign Hamilton And bring Cano back, and still hit that $189 Mill. Oh yea, this is that “through the looking glass” stuff again.

  68. Cashmoney November 6th, 2012 at 10:25 am

    It seems to me many say replace Swisher with Cashman and Martin with Romine and Cervelli. I believe both replacements make the team worse
    ——
    Mac, it’s all good to project what they will do and can do given the available FA pool. Would hunter be a downgrade from Swisher if that does happen, probably, but would you give Swisher a five deal as many think he will be seeking. I already said my opinion of Martin. The idea is here is to give a little time in something none of us have control of. I can not dissent because in actuality nothing has happen yet. give a little time.

  69. Shame Spencer November 6th, 2012 at 10:26 am

    Morning MTU! Right back at ya, my dude!

    Aren’t you guys glad the NHL can’t get it together? If they were playing right now I might have less time to eat, sleep and breathe Yankees… you guys might miss me :D

  70. austinmac November 6th, 2012 at 10:27 am

    The argument over adding Hamilton or BJ Upton reminds me so much of last year’s argument to sign Beltran and trade Swisher. It never appeared the Yankees considered that nor will they consider a replacement and trade this year. It made no sense last year and it won’t this year.

    The result was a lesser player last year and a supplemental draft pick instead of a player much nearer to helping from a trade.

    They must consider their options and not go down the same path that worked when they spent. It doesn’t work on the cheap.

  71. blake November 6th, 2012 at 10:27 am

    DONNYBROOK says:
    November 6, 2012 at 10:25 am
    Just how do the Yanks sign Hamilton And bring Cano back, and still hit that $189 Mill. Oh yea, this is that “through the looking glass” stuff again.

    2 ways. 1) don’t resign Cano 2) have your prospects hit and offset those salaries

    They aren’t getting under 189 and staying competitive unless their prospect hit anyway

  72. blake November 6th, 2012 at 10:28 am

    As I said yesterday….,is rather sign Hamilton for 5 years starting in 2013 than Cano for 7 or 8 years starting in 2014……you’d have them both in 2013

  73. blake November 6th, 2012 at 10:28 am

    @mlbtraderumors: Red Sox Interested In Torii Hunter http://t.co/yiYRc8OO #mlb

  74. MTU November 6th, 2012 at 10:29 am

    Here’s my final thought for now.

    Just get Ryan Braun.

    Later.

    :)

  75. Shame Spencer November 6th, 2012 at 10:29 am

    What I would really like is some small clue, any clue, that would suggest the Yankees see the offensive problems, see the aging problem and have an intention to do the best they can to remedy them. Instead, it is the same pursuit of old players who can be signed for the short term that interest them.

    I don’t pretend to know who can be acquired and at what cost. I do know if your not looking you won’t find your needs.

    ———————————————–

    Mac – Well put. I’ve said before I think whatever they do this off-season will tell us if they actually have a plan or if the plan is simply to piecemeal it together until they get under the cap long enough to benefit.

    The key, IMO anyway, is that if you replace the guys you ship out with players that aren’t quite as good…. at least have them be players the could get better. Give me a guy with upside instead of one on the downturn. I’d take younger and worse than older and worse any day of the week. Give me hope!

  76. Shame Spencer November 6th, 2012 at 10:30 am

    blake November 6th, 2012 at 10:22 am

    “We need 4 OFers”

    Well you know they are going to sign Jonesy so there you go ;)

    ——————

    Please don’t make jokes that hit so close to home, blake. I see you winking… but this could very well happen and I hate them so, so much.

  77. Cashmoney November 6th, 2012 at 10:32 am

    you have to make a choice btw cano and hamilton. either or neither. the difference could as large as a five year deal in comparison to ten year deal. The plus is you get both in 13, the minus is all the baggage Hamilton can bring and the fact he might be a walking injury waiting to happen. but we all have discussed those merits 1000 times over and probably 1000 times over. My concern is the Yankee put money before future.

  78. austinmac November 6th, 2012 at 10:32 am

    Cash,

    Yes, it is very early. I hope they surprise me, but recent history has made me a doubter.

    Hunter is older, will probably be worse than Swisher next year but is cheaper. Same for Ichiro. I long for the days cheaper was not the primary goal. Now, they consider cost first and procuction second. It must be the other way around unless they completely change their business model.

    My model is like some others. Sign a good free agent for the outfield, trade Granderson for youth. Then, consider trading Cano if it is unlikely to re-sign.

  79. blake November 6th, 2012 at 10:34 am

    “Please don’t make jokes that hit so close to home, blake. I see you winking… but this could very well happen and I hate them so, so much.”

    Can’t you see the Cashman quote now…..” Jones had a hurt thumb in the 2nd half last year but we still believe in his track record of hitting lefties”

  80. Tidrow November 6th, 2012 at 10:34 am

    Doesn’t anyone have a problem is the Yankees simply replace above average players with below average ones? Many say get rid of Swisher and Martin, and them replace them with lesser players. Worse players make the team worse.########################################################Don’t think it will take much to replace those players. Martin is an average at best catcher and Swisher is a streaky player with an atrocious post season resume. AJ Priezyinski and Tori Hunter or even Angel Pagan can more than adequately replace those two guys. Might even b an improvement.

  81. DONNYBROOK November 6th, 2012 at 10:37 am

    Let’s see. Rounding off, CANO\HAMILTON =$50 Mill per, CC\TEX\AROD = $65 Mill per. Your already at $115 Mill with 20 players to add. Never gonna come close to that $189 Mill in 2014. Pipe dream.

  82. Cashmoney November 6th, 2012 at 10:38 am

    mac, you know where i stand. i can not resist the lure of Yankee going for it all in 13 because i realistically believe that’s their before the window closes. but at the same time, i have said many times over, this team needs to retool because scarcity in FA, lack of ready prospects, brutal cba on a consistent winner and hal is mandate. I don’t live in fantasy land where i think all goes well with every possible scenarios this team can contend and be a championship caliber team and stay under the budget at the same time. the rational conclusion is that the Yanks probably will benefit from retooling for couple year in a long term prospective.

  83. Jerkface November 6th, 2012 at 10:38 am

    CC\TEX\AROD = $65 Mill per.

    Try closer to 72.

  84. DONNYBROOK November 6th, 2012 at 10:41 am

    Yea, I’m rounding off, being conservative. That Hamilton\Cano stuff is baloney.

  85. tucker November 6th, 2012 at 10:43 am

    I would give Hunter a one year and a mutual option for a second year. I would not offer more than $6-7 million per year. Probably not enough.

    As ar as Soria, it could be a case of his agent attempting to get the Yankees into the bidding under the mistaken impression that this team still spends money. The Yanks do not spend money any more, particularly this offseason with $189 round the corner. If they could get Soria on an Aardsma-type deal, that would be great. I expect he would get more elsewhere.

  86. blake November 6th, 2012 at 10:44 am

    2014

    Arod 27.5
    Tex 23
    Sabathia 23
    Hamilton 23
    Cano 23
    Jeter 14

    That leaves about 56 million under the 189 cap…..teams fill out their entire payrolls with 56 million dollars…..now it’d be tight…..and they would have to really have the pitching prospects pan out and they’d need some position player prospects to filter in…..but it’s possible and they aren’t getting under if that doesn’t happen anyway.

  87. blake November 6th, 2012 at 10:45 am

    You could also let Cano walk after 2013 and that makes the path much easier…..

  88. blake November 6th, 2012 at 10:46 am

    The combinined AAV for Tex, Sabathia, and Arod is around 73.5

  89. Jerkface November 6th, 2012 at 10:46 am

    That leaves about 56 million under the 189 cap…..teams fill out their entire payrolls with 56 million dollars…..now it’d be tight…..and they would have to really have the pitching prospects pan out and they’d need some position player prospects to filter in…..but it’s possible and they aren’t getting under if that doesn’t happen anyway.

    46 million. And thats without any room for trades

  90. The Return of Stoneburner November 6th, 2012 at 10:47 am

    Not bad for Hunter – his OPS and OPS+ have been solid above .800 and above 110-115 the past few seasons – except for 2011. Not as good as Swisher – but at least in the same ballpark. Depends on his asking price however. I would still look into Choo though – - – -

  91. The Return of Stoneburner November 6th, 2012 at 10:48 am

    Hamilton 23
    Cano 23

    ******

    Hamilton 25

    Cano 25-26

  92. blake November 6th, 2012 at 10:49 am

    “46 million. And thats without any room for trades”

    189-133= 56

  93. DONNYBROOK November 6th, 2012 at 10:49 am

    That tank of laughing gas in Blake’s office musta sprung a leak. Evacuation of the building issa must.

  94. Jerkface November 6th, 2012 at 10:50 am

    189-133= 56

    -10 for benefits

  95. blake November 6th, 2012 at 10:50 am

    Hamilton isn’t getting 25 million AAV unless the term is like 3 years

  96. blake November 6th, 2012 at 10:51 am

    “-10 for benefits”

    Well that’s a grey area….that stuff isn’t set in stone is it? Either way my point was its possible if they have some prospects pan out and imO it’s gonna be very difficult to do longterm if that doesn’t happen anyway

  97. Cashmoney November 6th, 2012 at 10:52 am

    as blake working feverishly on getting both …half gold star!

  98. The Return of Stoneburner November 6th, 2012 at 10:53 am

    blake November 6th, 2012 at 10:50 am
    Hamilton isn’t getting 25 million AAV unless the term is like 3 years

    ************

    It is not the AAV that is the problem with Hamilton – it is the years. You are proposing 5 years at 23 million – which is crazy for someone with Hamilton’s issues and attitude – if a team is going beyond just one year with this guy – he will get the AAV he wants – - – -

  99. austinmac November 6th, 2012 at 10:53 am

    I would prefer Hunter to Ichiro in right. Neither is too exciting, and both will likely be worse next year than this. However, does anyone believe the Yankees will win a bidding war for him or anyone else? Unless he wants to play for the Yankees over other possible destinations, it likely cannot happen.

    Boston and others can spend, and believe it or not, will contract with a player for more than one year.

    SI had an article a week or so ago stating Cshman has by far the most difficult job of any GM this off season. I agree. Many holes and needs with little money he may spend.

  100. DONNYBROOK November 6th, 2012 at 10:53 am

    “Voodoo Economics” Blake style.

  101. The Return of Stoneburner November 6th, 2012 at 10:55 am

    It would be an unmitigated disaster for the Yanks to sign Hamilton. His attitude would turn the fans against him – and he would make Robinson Cano look like Pete Rose when it comes to effort – - – -

  102. Jerkface November 6th, 2012 at 10:56 am

    Well that’s a grey area….that stuff isn’t set in stone is it? Either way my point was its possible if they have some prospects pan out and imO it’s gonna be very difficult to do longterm if that doesn’t happen anyway

    Its not a grey area at all, it is something that must be counted in the luxury tax calculations and it will only go up.

  103. blake November 6th, 2012 at 10:58 am

    Its not a grey area at all, it is something that must be counted in the luxury tax calculations and it will only go up.”

    It’s not a grey area that its there….but the exact number is right? I didn’t say it wouldn’t be tight…. I just think its possible

  104. DONNYBROOK November 6th, 2012 at 10:59 am

    Somebody hide Blake’s car keys. NO WAY, we can let him drive in this condition.

  105. Jerkface November 6th, 2012 at 10:59 am

    The 1/30th pool the teams must include for player benefit was 323.9 million last year. The amount for 2013 per team will be 10.799 million

    This is according to the CBA

  106. blake November 6th, 2012 at 10:59 am

    “It would be an unmitigated disaster for the Yanks to sign Hamilton. His attitude would turn the fans against him – and he would make Robinson Cano look like Pete Rose when it comes to effort – – – -”

    I think he’d hit lots of homers and remind people of Mickey mantle

  107. blake November 6th, 2012 at 11:01 am

    JF,

    You have the option of 5/115 for Hamilton starting in 2013 or 8/180 for Cano starting in 2014 (realistic choices)…..which do you take?

  108. The Return of Stoneburner November 6th, 2012 at 11:01 am

    blake November 6th, 2012 at 10:59 am
    “It would be an unmitigated disaster for the Yanks to sign Hamilton. His attitude would turn the fans against him – and he would make Robinson Cano look like Pete Rose when it comes to effort – – – -”

    I think he’d hit lots of homers and remind people of Mickey mantle

    ********

    I also think statements like this will tick people off – and this is just the tip of the iceberg:

    “I still had a pretty good year. Just think if I hadn’t taken off June and July. We’ll work on that next year.”

    Read more at http://www.rantsports.com/mlb/.....d07Bdqs.99

  109. Jerkface November 6th, 2012 at 11:02 am

    Both are gross, I’d take 5/100 for Hamilton

  110. blake November 6th, 2012 at 11:02 am

    Hamilton is upfront and honest always

  111. blake November 6th, 2012 at 11:03 am

    “November 6, 2012 at 11:02 am
    Both are gross, I’d take 5/100 for Hamilton”

    Both are gross…..but one gives you both guys for 2013 and one only has a couple of years over 35….the other has 3 or 4

  112. The Return of Stoneburner November 6th, 2012 at 11:06 am

    blake November 6th, 2012 at 11:02 am
    Hamilton is upfront and honest always

    ********

    No – this was said in October – upfront and honest would have been saying in June and July that I am taking it off. Even Nolan and Jon Daniels – two guys respected on this board – are hesitant to commit to the guy beyond just one year.

    And here is one thing to always remember – how can you tell when an addict is lying – their lips are moving.

    I will end with that – be careful what you wish for.

  113. blake November 6th, 2012 at 11:08 am

    Again I would consider Hamilton a bridge player ….a guy that could maybe help them win another title short term and help bridge the gap to the wave of players coming that I see as vital to their future……he allows them to win now and to keep those players…..

    Doesn’t mean you don’t explore trades….but Im not sure they can actually get what they need via trade and even if they can I worry that it’ll be counterproductive

  114. blake November 6th, 2012 at 11:09 am

    He was joking…..he just meant0 he didn’t play well in June and July

  115. ac1 November 6th, 2012 at 11:11 am

    how about they sign ichiro and hunter and trade granderson?

  116. The Return of Stoneburner November 6th, 2012 at 11:11 am

    blake November 6th, 2012 at 11:09 am
    He was joking…..he just meant0 he didn’t play well in June and July

    *****

    No – that is his attitude. There is an old line the Dallas media uses with Josh now – Josh would rather play a 62 game season than a 162 game season. Again – you have been warned.

  117. blake November 6th, 2012 at 11:12 am

    “No – that is his attitude. There is an old line the Dallas media uses with Josh now – Josh would rather play a 62 game season than a 162 game season. Again – you have been warned.”

    Bandwagon cowboys fans turned on him…..

  118. The Return of Stoneburner November 6th, 2012 at 11:12 am

    ac1 November 6th, 2012 at 11:11 am
    how about they sign ichiro and hunter and trade granderson?

    ******

    Still need Granderson’s 40 plus homerun power for the time being.

  119. DONNYBROOK November 6th, 2012 at 11:13 am

    A “bridge” player is NOT around for at least 5yrs at $20+ Mill per.

  120. Shame Spencer November 6th, 2012 at 11:18 am

    46 million. And thats without any room for trades
    —————

    Is there room for voodoo math?? As long as there is room for voodoo math we have hope.

  121. ac1 November 6th, 2012 at 11:20 am

    Still need Granderson’s 40 plus homerun power for the time being.

    ___

    I disagree. We need more hitters that get on base at more than a 32% clip and hit for an average closer to .300 (hunter and ichiro). More people on base and more hits = more runs. 1998, no Yankee had more than 28 homeruns and they dominated….

  122. The Return of Stoneburner November 6th, 2012 at 11:24 am

    blake November 6th, 2012 at 11:12 am
    “No – that is his attitude. There is an old line the Dallas media uses with Josh now – Josh would rather play a 62 game season than a 162 game season. Again – you have been warned.”

    Bandwagon cowboys fans turned on him…..

    *******

    Oh that’s right – New York fans and the media are so much more understanding and patient.

    And another thing – the Rangers’ fans wore the two-time AL championship crown down here in the DFW area like a badge of honor – they were happy with second place/runner up – - – -just think if Hamilton had played the way in Oakland in October with the Yanks – this board and blog would have destroyed him – - – -

  123. tucker November 6th, 2012 at 11:25 am

    Well Cashman has to show some creativity this offseason. He can’t weave another quilt of one-year contracts and expect a better result than this year. It’s my belief that this year’s team overachieved based on their talent.

    Cashman no longer has the checkbook to bail him out, so he needs to shop around some of his assets and/or negotiate early extensions. Granderson should be shopped. If they can’t extend Cano and Hughes, Cashman should shop them

  124. Nick in SF November 6th, 2012 at 11:26 am

    I hope comments weren’t closed to prevent people from posting this story about dudes trying to trade gas for sex on craigslist:

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/annano.....-craigslis

  125. ac1 November 6th, 2012 at 11:27 am

    Guys at the top with Speed and Average, The power ish in the middle, Cano still hits .300. Hunter can hit around .280 with some pop, Nunez can also. I would keep Arod at DH full time unless they can trade him. I think David Adams should have a chance but i’d rather see nunez (though cashman says he isnt playing 3b).

    Gardner
    Jeter
    Ichiro
    ARod (DH)
    Cano
    Tex
    Hunter
    Nunez/Adams (3B)
    Martin (since we are unlikely to find someone else and Romine isn’t likely ready)

  126. austinmac November 6th, 2012 at 11:30 am

    tucker,

    Well said. I only wish the Yankee management agreed.

  127. Shame Spencer November 6th, 2012 at 11:31 am

    Bandwagon cowboys fans turned on him…..

    —————–

    I wish Hamilton was my QB…

  128. Shame Spencer November 6th, 2012 at 11:32 am

    DONNYBROOK November 6th, 2012 at 11:13 am

    A “bridge” player is NOT around for at least 5yrs at $20+ Mill per.

    —————–

    But if none of your prospects are even projected to be ready for the bigs for another 2-3 years…

  129. The Return of Stoneburner November 6th, 2012 at 11:32 am

    ac1 November 6th, 2012 at 11:20 am
    Still need Granderson’s 40 plus homerun power for the time being.

    ___

    I disagree. We need more hitters that get on base at more than a 32% clip and hit for an average closer to .300 (hunter and ichiro). More people on base and more hits = more runs. 1998, no Yankee had more than 28 homeruns and they dominated….

    ********

    As the team can be constructed realistically going into 2013 – they cannot afford to lose that 40 homerun advantage from CF as this would impact regular season success (not talking about postseason). Can you go Granderson, Ichiro, Hunter, and Gardner – and rotate with ARod the DH spot – plus this would allow insurance for Brett “Mr. Glass” Gardner.

  130. ac1 November 6th, 2012 at 11:32 am

    I’d also make it a priority to get our OF prospects through the system in 2013 as quick as possible. BY 2014, i would hope to see Tyler Austin and Mason Williams in the OF. Hopefully they stay healthy and give that a chance. Same with Gary Sanchez, though he may be one extra year back as a catcher.

  131. ac1 November 6th, 2012 at 11:34 am

    As the team can be constructed realistically going into 2013 – they cannot afford to lose that 40 homerun advantage from CF as this would impact regular season success (not talking about postseason). Can you go Granderson, Ichiro, Hunter, and Gardner – and rotate with ARod the DH spot – plus this would allow insurance for Brett “Mr. Glass” Gardner.
    _____

    I think you can do that. You are right Gardner is like glass out there….. I don’t see them getting Ichiro AND Hunter while still paying Granderson though.

  132. Shame Spencer November 6th, 2012 at 11:37 am

    We’re actually losing 60+ HRs and like 200 RBIs if we move Granderson because Swish will also be taking his party elsewhere.

  133. blake November 6th, 2012 at 11:38 am

    “I’d also make it a priority to get our OF prospects through the system in 2013 as quick as possible. BY 2014, i would hope to see Tyler Austin and Mason Williams in the OF. Hopefully they stay healthy and give that a chance. Same with Gary Sanchez, though he may be one extra year back as a catcher.”

    If that wave pans out and arrives around 2014 then they can afford Hamilton

  134. Shame Spencer November 6th, 2012 at 11:39 am

    ac1 November 6th, 2012 at 11:32 am

    I’d also make it a priority to get our OF prospects through the system in 2013 as quick as possible. BY 2014, i would hope to see Tyler Austin and Mason Williams in the OF.

    ——————

    I agree with the first part, but think you’re pushing it with Austin and Williams being in the MLB OF by 2014. Those guys have a lot of baseball yet to play. In my optimistic scenario, at least one of them is your 4th OFer by 2014 (and that’s not a knock, put this in perspective: Ibanez was the 5th OFer when 2012 started).

  135. ac1 November 6th, 2012 at 11:40 am

    We’re actually losing 60+ HRs and like 200 RBIs if we move Granderson because Swish will also be taking his party elsewhere.
    ____

    It’s not like you are leaving their positions blank. You’d be replacing them and yes losing some power but verly likely increasing the hits and the OBP.

  136. The Return of Stoneburner November 6th, 2012 at 11:41 am

    Of Heathcott, Flores, Williams, Austin – you have to figure (hopefully) one pans out – and if you hit on two – that is huge – - – -

  137. Against All Odds November 6th, 2012 at 11:41 am

    I’d also make it a priority to get our OF prospects through the system in 2013 as quick as possible. BY 2014, i would hope to see Tyler Austin and Mason Williams in the OF.

    ——————————

    I don’t think they should rush those guys. The problem with the Yankees is the waiting is getting longer. At this point they were already suppose to have guys from the farm on the roster.

  138. jacksquat November 6th, 2012 at 11:42 am

    Gardner misses significant time for one year and now he’s “made of glass”?

  139. ac1 November 6th, 2012 at 11:43 am

    I’d also make it a priority to get our OF prospects through the system in 2013 as quick as possible. BY 2014, i would hope to see Tyler Austin and Mason Williams in the OF.
    _____

    The problem is the Yankees don’t push guys fast enough…. Our prospects just waste away in the minors with a couple exceptions like Montero or Banuelos (one is gone and one is injured).

  140. ac1 November 6th, 2012 at 11:45 am

    Gardner misses significant time for one year and now he’s “made of glass”?

    ___

    he missed ALL year, and parts of the seasons before that. sometimes he is hurt and plays through it too…. so YES.

  141. blake November 6th, 2012 at 11:46 am

    It seems about as many folks agree with me about Hamilton as they did about Matt Holliday 3 years ago

  142. tucker November 6th, 2012 at 11:46 am

    The Yanks fan base is growing bored with this team, IMO. Hal/Cashman’s approach is to supplement the”core” with one-year veterans. That really will not work because the core is getting too old and ineffective. ARod is quickly turning into a mediocre player. Can we really expect Jeter to repeat his 2012?

    I think the fanbase would rally behind a “bridge” year as long as the Yanks made moves to bolster their future. That means shopping the likes of Cano, Granderson and Hughes.

    Right now, the only strategy seems to be to nip/tuck their way to 189 and sign enough big hairy veterans to exploit the RF porch. Seems like a cynical approach to appease the fan base with aging names and home runs while Hal cuts the payroll. Yankees fans are smarter than that. Last year’s declining ratings proved that.

  143. jacksquat November 6th, 2012 at 11:47 am

    Do we really need 100 posts every day about Hamilton?

  144. blake November 6th, 2012 at 11:48 am

    jacksquat says:
    November 6, 2012 at 11:47 am
    Do we really need 100 posts every day about Hamilton?

    Do we really need 100 posts a day about anything at all?

  145. Against All Odds November 6th, 2012 at 11:48 am

    jacksquat November 6th, 2012 at 11:47 am

    Do we really need 100 posts every day about Hamilton?

    ——————-

    Until he is signed by another team he is up for grabs. :D

  146. DONNYBROOK November 6th, 2012 at 11:56 am

    $189 Mill payroll and you gotta “rush” Bushers??? That is not only foolish, it’s a knee-jerk panic move. Pass on Hamilton, deal Cano\Nunez for Hill\J Upton. If possible, expand the deal and include SD. Headley for Nova\Hughes\bushers. SD probably asks for Phelps instead of Hughes.

  147. Shame Spencer November 6th, 2012 at 11:56 am

    ac1 November 6th, 2012 at 11:40 am

    We’re actually losing 60+ HRs and like 200 RBIs if we move Granderson because Swish will also be taking his party elsewhere.
    ____

    It’s not like you are leaving their positions blank. You’d be replacing them and yes losing some power but verly likely increasing the hits and the OBP.

    —————–

    Hunter and Ichiro aren’t those guys, though. They simply can’t and won’t make up for the production you lose with Swisher and Granderson.

    Like I said before, I don’t mind replacing some of our guys with less productive players, but at least make them player with upside instead of those trending downward.

  148. blake November 6th, 2012 at 11:58 am

    ” That is not only foolish, it’s a knee-jerk panic move. Pass on Hamilton, deal Cano\Nunez for Hill\J Upton. If possible, expand the deal and include SD. Headley for Nova\Hughes\bushers. SD probably asks for Phelps instead of Hughes.”

    Because that scenario is realistic right?

  149. Shame Spencer November 6th, 2012 at 11:58 am

    Exercise in Argumentation, this way! :arrow:

  150. blake November 6th, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    Trading for Upton and Headley sounds wonderful until you try to figure out how they can actually do that in real life

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    You don’t always appreciate the risk once you’re not looking down, however, you may be looking straight ahead but
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