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What’s going on in the actual GM Meetings?

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 08, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

You know, the GM Meetings aren’t all about private meetings to discuss trades and free agents. There are actual, official meetings taking place out here in Indian Wells. Yesterday, Joe Torre addressed a few of the issues that have been discussed. I was talking to Brian Cashman at the time, so I’ll let The Associated Press take it from here.

EXPANDED REPLAY

INDIAN WELLS, Calif. (AP) — Baseball is considering a broader expansion of video review for umpires than first discussed.

Instant replay in baseball began in August 2008 and has been limited to checking whether potential home runs were fair or cleared over fences. Major League Baseball Commissioner Bud Selig has been saying since early 2011 he wants to expand it to two additional types of calls.

“He was talking about really basically fair-foul, trap plays. But we’re looking into more than that,” Joe Torre, MLB’s executive vice president for baseball operations, said Wednesday at the general managers’ meetings.

Torre did not detail what types of calls a broader expansion might include.

MLB experimented with the Hawk-Eye animation system that is used to judge line calls in tennis and the TrackMan radar software used by the PGA Tour during tests late this year at Yankee Stadium and Citi Field.

“We still have some questions on the way it is now, if that’s going to fit with baseball,” Torre said. “I’m not saying it can’t be adjusted or they can do something would make it work for our game.”

He pointed out tennis courts are smaller than baseball fields.

“It’s easier to cover as opposed to what we have,” he said.

Depending on what baseball decides, changes might have to be negotiated with the umpires’ and players’ unions.

Selig has said he hopes to have wider replay in 2013.

NEW SEPTEMBER ROSTER RULES

INDIAN WELLS, Calif. (AP) — Major League Baseball is considering a change to its longtime rule allowing active rosters to expand from 25 to 40 from Sept. 1 through the rest of the regular season.

MLB executive vice president for baseball operations Joe Torre said general managers discussed the matter Wednesday on the opening day of their annual meeting.

Some teams have been reluctant to use the larger limit late in the season. They have cited not wanting to disrupt minor league teams in their playoffs, and those decisions have led to big league games in which teams have differing numbers of available players.

“Each team should have equal number of players available every day,” Torre said. “I just think you play the whole season with one set of rules and the most important time of the year, especially for clubs that are in a pennant race, I just don’t think it’s fair for it to be done (with a) different number of roster people.”

Torre said one possibility would be setting a fixed number of players who must be on the active roster for September games.

“We’ve talked about 28. We’ve talked about 30,” he said. “It was talked about at length today.”

Any proposal for change would be subject to bargaining with the Major League Baseball Players Association.

HEAD PROTECTION FOR PITCHERS

INDIAN WELLS, Calif. (AP) — At their first meeting since a pair of pitchers were hit on the head by line drives, baseball general managers discussed ways to protect hurlers from injuries in the future.

Major League Baseball staff have said a cap liner with Kevlar, the high-impact material used by military, law enforcement and NFL players for body armor, is among the ideas under consideration.

“If we settle on something that is going to make sense, and obviously the pitcher has to be comfortable with it, we’ll obviously put that in as soon as possible,” MLB executive vice president Joe Torre said Wednesday.

Oakland’s Brandon McCarthy was hit on the head by a line drive in September, causing a skull fracture and brain contusion that required surgery.

Detroit’s Doug Fister was hit on the head by a liner off the bat of San Francisco’s Gregor Blanco during the World Series. Fister was unhurt and stayed in the game.

MLB medical director Dr. Gary Green is to give a report at next month’s winter meetings in Nashville, Tenn. MLB senior vice president Dan Halem has said protective headgear for pitchers could be in place in the minor leagues for next season.

“We’ll talk to our doctors to make sure that they’re comfortable or they’re satisfied this is an advance,” Torre said.

Any change to require protection for big league pitchers would have to be negotiated with the players’ association.

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502 Responses to “What’s going on in the actual GM Meetings?”

  1. Duh Innings II November 8th, 2012 at 9:06 am

    Kevlar inside of baseball caps? LOL.

    Wouldn’t it slow down movement and create neck, shoulder, and back strain?

    All that weight on the head can’t be good for the neck, shoulders, and back.

  2. The Genius Maker November 8th, 2012 at 9:10 am

    First, to go back to the last thread; how is possible anyone could have Jeter higher than Cano on the MVP scale? It is flat out ignorant to compare a below average defensive SS to an elite defensive 2nd baseman and the OPS differential of 138 points is huge. I am sorry, but Jeter has a decent/solid OPS of .791 and he is not a good defender so this discussion is a joke.

    As for the above post, MLB seems to be looking at things very smart. I never liked expanding rosters at a critical time and using IR well makes sense for line calls and maybe even calls on the bases to eliminate all the time to argue (which should be outlawed anyway)

  3. austinmac November 8th, 2012 at 9:13 am

    Sherman now says the team isn’t sure Upton is a good fit for NY. Of course he isn’t. Only a grizzled vet can handle it.

  4. Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 9:14 am

    I see a lot of chatter in the last thread, can someone recap for me? Looks like Rangers will make a push for the good Upton..?

  5. Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 9:18 am

    austinmac November 8th, 2012 at 9:13 am

    Sherman now says the team isn’t sure Upton is a good fit for NY. Of course he isn’t. Only a grizzled vet can handle it.

    ———————

    Oh boy… how do so few of the 700ish players in the league have the mental make up to play in NY??

    If our FO and coaches can’t motivate guys to buy in and perform well for the other 24 guys in the room, we’re not gonna go far anyway.

  6. austinmac November 8th, 2012 at 9:19 am

    Shame,
    To sum up, others want Hunter and Upton. The Yankees don’t want to impact 2014. They probably don’t have what is needed for Upton anyway. Aren’t you sorry you asked?

  7. Against All Odds November 8th, 2012 at 9:22 am

    mick November 8th, 2012 at 8:24 am

    Forget Joba’s numbers. He was a 5 inning pitcher who nibbled.
    Better off in the pen…

    ———————–

    He started for a yr and a half

  8. yankee21 November 8th, 2012 at 9:23 am

    Neither Jeter or Cano deserved serious MVP consideration. Cano was my pre-season pick BTW.

    It really boiled down to Trout or Cabrera.

    For most of last year Cano was absolutely horrid in the clutch. He disappeared when the team needed him. If he didn’t have an out of the universe September he wouldn’t even be on the radar.

    Jeter was solid and steady offensively (except for about a 6 week span from early May to mid June). He hasn’t been a plus factor defensively for at least 4-5 years. Although he is about as sure handed as they come. He might have been MVP of the Yankees along with Soriano but no way was he a legitimate candidate for League MVP.

  9. Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 9:28 am

    Okay okay okay… I’m bored and would rather not start doing work for an hour or two, so let’s talk about things that won’t happen (so different from our usual routine!!)!

    I’ve been in support of a pursuit of Hamilton…. but I think I could make a stronger case for Grienke.

    If you sign Grienke, you have a long term 1-2 solution with CC and he anchoring the rotation. You could trade 2 of your current young starters… maybe even all 3, to get cost controlled bats.

    Now.. tell me to eff off. :D

  10. Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 9:29 am

    mac – The problem is they should be trying to impact 2014 in a positive manner. If they don’t get someone under contract this season, ANYONE, they’re risking costs rising/options dwindling next off season.

    Who are the FAs for next year? Any OFers on the radar?

  11. Cashmoney November 8th, 2012 at 9:35 am

    What’s going on in the actual GM Meetings?
    —–
    this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg7E2pbG5QE

  12. austinmac November 8th, 2012 at 9:37 am

    Shame,

    The problem is in order for the Yankees to make and save the big bucks, they must be under the cap from 2014-2016. Therefore, free agents, except the old and cheap ones, don’t work for the next several years under the let’s save money and dupe the fans method of operation.

  13. Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 9:38 am

    @JonHeymanCBS

    Torii Hunter is hot item on market. 1 comp is beltran ($26M, 2 yrs). http://cbsprt.co/Rid5jC

    ——————

    Wow.

    Hunter’s never even hit over .300 aside from this year, I think… It might not be an awful comp but I thought Beltran was a better OBP guy.

  14. blake November 8th, 2012 at 9:39 am

    @Joelsherman1: Heard #D’backs don’t love Olt for J.Upton, want Profar or Andrus. Andrus more likely: Fr agt after ’14 and repped by Boras #Rangers (cont)

    As I’ve been saying….Olt is a good not great prospect which is why Texas is always pushing him in traded instead of Profar and Andrus…..they ain’t trading Profar

  15. coney1 November 8th, 2012 at 9:40 am

    I’ll tell you right now. If the Yankees plan on going with a platoon of guys like Ibanez and Hairston in RF, I won’t be going to Yankee Stadium next year. Stuff like that worked in the ’90s when you had mainstays like Paul O’Neill and Bernie Williams manning the other two OF spots. But Granderson is no Bernie and Gardner is one-dimensional with speed. I’m sick to my stomach that Hank, Hal, Levine, etc tied up so much payroll in A-Rod and Teixeira that now they are unable to address other needs and balance this team out. I bet a lot of Yankee fans feel the same way.

  16. austinmac November 8th, 2012 at 9:40 am

    What’s actually going on? Cashman is in the back room culling through the recently released player list hoping to fill the rest of the 40 man roster.

    So when is lacrosse season? I must find something else to do next summer rather than watching 162 painful games.

  17. The Genius Maker November 8th, 2012 at 9:41 am

    He might have been MVP of the Yankees along with Soriano but no way was he a legitimate candidate for League MVP.
    *******

    Trout deserved the MVP, but there is absolutely no chance Jeter was more valuable to the Yanks or anyone over Cano. BTW, your clutch stats are incorrect as Cano had a higher OPS than Jeter in every clutch stat including high leverage situations which covers a lot of ground. the one exception was with 2 outs and RISP where Jeter had an OPS of .722 and Cano’s was .716, but Cano was a decent amount better in all the other categories.

  18. Cashmoney November 8th, 2012 at 9:41 am

    exhibit A of Heyman ate one too many pieces of steroids fed fast food meals.

  19. austinmac November 8th, 2012 at 9:43 am

    Marchand is saying that Hunter is too expensive unless they move Granderson. So let’s see, lose Granderson and Swisher and replace both with a 38 year old. Add Ichiro, and voila, an outfield much worse than last year. Sounds like a plan.

  20. mick November 8th, 2012 at 9:43 am

    Forget Joba’s numbers. He was a 5 inning pitcher who nibbled.
    Better off in the pen…

    ———————–

    He started for a yr and a half
    =======================
    AAO
    It was enough for most to see he was better off in the pen.

  21. Cashmoney November 8th, 2012 at 9:44 am

    captain def gave the yankees their money worth in 12, i doubt he can repeat that in 13. i can’t dismiss his leadership and intangibles but raw stats wise, Cano had him beat. Jeter was remarkably consistent though. something of a trademark in his career.

  22. mick November 8th, 2012 at 9:44 am

    mick November 8th, 2012 at 9:32 am

    cash-
    i agree in theory and have enjoyed the ride but to reinvent the model will most likely be painstaking.
    relying on youth is a monumental crapshoot as it is with most teams and it’s not what this generation of yankee fans are used to.
    but so be it….as i said, it’s not our call….we watch the games and hope for the best.
    to some, that is actually enough.

  23. Against All Odds November 8th, 2012 at 9:45 am

    Take a thriving business, change the way it operates and alienate the client base to save some money. Good business model.

    ———————–

    And they are making money hand over fist. It’s not like we need to pass the hat around

  24. coney1 November 8th, 2012 at 9:46 am

    Oh, and will the team lower the cost of ticket prices, parking, and food to compensate for their inability to field a World Championship team due to their massive overpay of A-Rod and Tex and their obsession with getting under $189M.

  25. mick November 8th, 2012 at 9:46 am

    I must find something else to do next summer rather than watching 162 painful games.
    ======================
    when you say it like that, it hurts.
    maybe we should get on the youth train….at least until Trout is available.

  26. Against All Odds November 8th, 2012 at 9:46 am

    mick November 8th, 2012 at 8:59 am

    Joba nibbled because he is better suited to be a reliever where he can pitch to his mindset.
    He is just not efficient enough to be a consistent starter which is why he reached 100 pitches by the 5th inning every time out.

    ——————–

    Not enough evidence to suggest that is who he was. The kid was in his early 20s and started 40-45 games. But anyway it’s just another failure in a long line of failures.

  27. Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 9:48 am

    mac – But that’s counter-intuitive, IMO. If they need to stay under through 2016, they’d be better off knowing what they’re spending on certain positions instead of going into every off season with X dollars, not knowing who will be available at that price.

  28. Against All Odds November 8th, 2012 at 9:48 am

    mick November 8th, 2012 at 9:43 am

    Forget Joba’s numbers. He was a 5 inning pitcher who nibbled.
    Better off in the pen…

    ———————–

    He started for a yr and a half
    =======================
    AAO
    It was enough for most to see he was better off in the pen.

    ————————-

    So why is Hughes still starting?

    And he’s a spare part in the pen. TBH if he gets traded would it be a blow to the team?

  29. mick November 8th, 2012 at 9:48 am

    scouting seems to be our sore spot. sabean was a genius . he wants to keep hunter pence.
    that tells you a lot.

  30. The Genius Maker November 8th, 2012 at 9:49 am

    Coney, Gardner is a really good all around player. Gets on base, elite speed and elite defense; he is the best defender we have had in the OF for a really long time. I thought he should have been in CF when Grandy got here, but he may be a better LF’r Bernie had a great 8 year run where his OPS was about .950 so he was a lot better than what we had

  31. coney1 November 8th, 2012 at 9:49 am

    Brian Cashman= massive failure. Couldn’t produce healthy high-end pitching prospects or high-end position players. He traded the one position player prospect we had for a pitcher with a career-threatening shoulder injury. Now he has to fill his team out with scrubs since he has no high-end youth in the upper levels of the minors and can’t spend in the FA market because of El Cheapo Hal.

  32. The Genius Maker November 8th, 2012 at 9:51 am

    Cashmoney; sure, Jeter gave us a lot more than I expected, but the argument (you didn’t make) of Jeter being more valuable than Cano is silly

  33. mick November 8th, 2012 at 9:52 am

    AAO
    at this point it is likely joba will be dealt.
    he is one of our chips, maybe to a team that wants to have him start.
    i think this is Cashmans goal this OS, to deal away what he can.
    after that it’s a crapshoot as he might get back iffy prospects.
    if he can get a few names out of it, i think he will be happy.

  34. jacksquat November 8th, 2012 at 9:52 am

    Trigeminal Neuralgia Yank November 8th, 2012 at 7:14 am
    Jeter may not have been as hot as cano the last 9 games, but he sure was more noticeable than cano the first 153.

    Way to completely miss the point of my argument.

  35. Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 9:52 am

    Against All Odds November 8th, 2012 at 9:45 am

    Take a thriving business, change the way it operates and alienate the client base to save some money. Good business model.

    ———————–

    And they are making money hand over fist. It’s not like we need to pass the hat around

    ———————

    Well this is the thing.. season ticket holders, the diehards, can complain all they want but the NY Yankees are still gonna make their money. They’re a tourist stop, they could live off of the casual fan easily.

  36. austinmac November 8th, 2012 at 9:52 am

    As one who clearly remembers going from a team who was in the World Series five straight years from 1960-1964 and then going to the second division for years, I can’t express enough how that took the joy out of each season. Watching a team of old players decline in front of your eyes is rather unbearable. Substitute AROD for Mickey and you will see it is very similar.

    The CBS’ plan in 1965 was don’t spend, the fans will still come since we are the Yankees. No, they didn’t then and won’t now. That’s when the Mets became a fan favorite.

    Thsi was clear last year when they didn’t plan ahead with international players. They simply will no longer spend money impacting the future.

  37. Cashmoney November 8th, 2012 at 9:53 am

    I don’t think Jeter is more valuable than Cano, not on defense, not on offense, period.

  38. coney1 November 8th, 2012 at 9:54 am

    Genius Maker,

    I’m not saying Gardner isn’t good. But you can’t compare him to either Bernie or O’Neill. When the Yankees platooned guys like Shane Spencer, Ricky Ledee, Darryl Strawberry, and Tim Raines during the ’90s dynasty, they had two stable mainstays with high OBP that hit for average and power, and had great defense in Bernie and Paulie. Can’t imagine those ’90s teams platooning Spencer and Ledee in LF, with Rob Deer and Juan Pierre in the other two OF spots and winning multiple World Series titles, which is basically what they are doing now if they platoon guys like Ibanez and Scott Hairston with Grandy and Gardy.

  39. Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 9:55 am

    What are the chances they can extend Gardner at like $3-4 million AAV so we know we have at least one OFer for 2014-2016 lol?

  40. mick November 8th, 2012 at 9:56 am

    id rather have hunter pence than torii hunter.

  41. Against All Odds November 8th, 2012 at 9:57 am

    coney1 November 8th, 2012 at 9:49 am

    Brian Cashman= massive failure. Couldn’t produce healthy high-end pitching prospects or high-end position players. He traded the one position player prospect we had for a pitcher with a career-threatening shoulder injury. Now he has to fill his team out with scrubs since he has no high-end youth in the upper levels of the minors and can’t spend in the FA market because of El Cheapo Hal.

    ————————-

    And then he’ll come out and tell everyone it’s a process. It’s been 7-8 yrs and the best thing to come out of the farm is Cano. A player they desperately they tried to give a way more than once and the same guy who might not be here after next season.

  42. austinmac November 8th, 2012 at 9:58 am

    Shame,

    I disagree they will make money irrespective of the team. Their is much to do in NYC without going to a game to see an expected unhappy ending. A losing team will see attendance drop by 25-50%, IMO. Plus, the Yes revenue will dimisnish as ratings decline. Do you think the average fan will watch a losing team on a regular basis? I don’t. Crazy fans like us may watch, but the average fan can do something more fun.

  43. The Genius Maker November 8th, 2012 at 9:58 am

    Granderson was as good as Bernie and Oneill last year; it is this year where he and swisher were in the average area that was the issue and the other issue is that Granderson/Swisher are hard to project as being anything better next year.

  44. Against All Odds November 8th, 2012 at 9:59 am

    mick November 8th, 2012 at 9:52 am

    AAO
    at this point it is likely joba will be dealt.
    he is one of our chips, maybe to a team that wants to have him start.
    i think this is Cashmans goal this OS, to deal away what he can.
    after that it’s a crapshoot as he might get back iffy prospects.
    if he can get a few names out of it, i think he will be happy.

    ————–

    True he will probably trade the excess to make a deal. That’s why a guy like Marquez went in the Swisher deal.

  45. Against All Odds November 8th, 2012 at 10:00 am

    Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 9:52 am

    Against All Odds November 8th, 2012 at 9:45 am

    Take a thriving business, change the way it operates and alienate the client base to save some money. Good business model.

    ———————–

    And they are making money hand over fist. It’s not like we need to pass the hat around

    ———————

    Well this is the thing.. season ticket holders, the diehards, can complain all they want but the NY Yankees are still gonna make their money. They’re a tourist stop, they could live off of the casual fan easily.

    ——————————–

    I don’t know if they can live off the casual fan in this climate. Maybe yrs ago.

  46. austinmac November 8th, 2012 at 10:00 am

    Shame,

    Just use sinkerballers and who needs an outfield.

  47. mick November 8th, 2012 at 10:01 am

    I wonder. Do we even employ scouts anymore?
    Would Hal pay a scout or is that a waste of money or another way to cut costs?

  48. Cashmoney November 8th, 2012 at 10:02 am

    Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 9:55 am
    What are the chances they can extend Gardner at like $3-4 million AAV so we know we have at least one OFer for 2014-2016 lol?
    —–
    deps on the evaluation of gardner and the state of the team… by your narrative, the team most likely be aging and not very good. what’s the point of locking up a marginal starter as gardner if you get cheaper filler or more importantly guys whose emerging talent might require time and a spot to develop in those coming years. in either regard, locking gardner is not paramount imo.

  49. Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 10:02 am

    mac – I’m speaking more to attendance than anything else… I can’t speak for the ratings because I do think you’re right, that those watching on a nightly basis are the real fans, but with the secondary ticket market being so popular the Yanks will still sell well above 3 million tickets before a game is even played in 2013. Now that people can pick those up for $8-30 bucks every night via Stubhub, the casual Yankee fan will still show up just to get their two or three trips to the stadium in. The Yanks can complain about StubHub but at the end of the day they’re selling a large chunk of tickets because of the brokers.

    Now… if the brokers decide the investment isn’t worth it, which after last season they might by buying less tickets, we could start to see some reduction in overall ticket sales. Still don’t think we will, tbh. Not yet anyway.

  50. blake November 8th, 2012 at 10:07 am

    I kinda hope Texas does make the Andrus for Upton trade if the Yanks can’t get him for 2 reasons.
    1) I’m not sure it makes Texas much if any better 2) if makes it more likely that the Yanks could get Andrus either via trade or as a FA later on…..

  51. Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 10:07 am

    Cashmoney – I don’t think its paramount but a big part of having and determining a budget is being able to project your spending. The more players they have locked up during those years, the easier it is for them to know what their needs will be and how much they have to work with.

    What we know right now is we have 2 OFers for 2013, Gardner and Granderson. Granderson will (likely) not be on the team beyond 2013 because of how much he costs. Gardner has an arb year coming up and is an FA in ’15 I think. You need to field 3 OFers lol, so if you have at least one locked up through 2016, you can move on to maneuvering the rest of the budget for the other two, instead of having X dollars and 3 spots to fill (again, without knowing exactly who will be available which is key).

  52. Chip November 8th, 2012 at 10:08 am

    So give $1M to Jason Bay and hope anti-Met karma causes him to hit .290 with 25 HRs for the Yankees?

  53. Cashmoney November 8th, 2012 at 10:11 am

    shame, i see your point. I have to wait for old timers day in 13 to determine what i have to work with in 14. meanwhile, my tentative projections is bugsy in left, right and Center with a bucket of carrots.

  54. mick November 8th, 2012 at 10:11 am

    The tix on stubhub are already sold.
    Unless nobody buys them from the Yanks.
    Then the Yanks sell them to stubhub.
    But they want to end their deal with s.hub…
    So confusing….

  55. Jerkface November 8th, 2012 at 10:13 am

    I don’t think the team is allowed to sell their tickets to stubhub. In general tickets on stubhub were sold to brokers first.

  56. Cashmoney November 8th, 2012 at 10:13 am

    sure chip, if he takes it. There is zero risks involved in that proposal.

  57. austinmac November 8th, 2012 at 10:13 am

    Blake,

    Andrus would become a free agent during the time of pestilence and drought(2014-2016). Those years will operate much like this one. It is either old or prospects.

  58. mick November 8th, 2012 at 10:14 am

    there has been much talk about yanks selling unsold tix to s.hub.

  59. blake November 8th, 2012 at 10:15 am

    “Andrus would become a free agent during the time of pestilence and drought(2014-2016). Those years will operate much like this one. It is either old or prospects.”

    At least if he were a Dback then there would be a greater chance that he could become available and the Yankees could claim they can’t afford him

  60. mick November 8th, 2012 at 10:16 am

    2014-2016 could be a turning point in the franchise.
    young players coming pushing old vets out.
    may be a necessary time in our growth.

    after that we will see what the real Hal is made of…

  61. blake November 8th, 2012 at 10:17 am

    The Yankees are really starting to sound ridiculous with this can’t handle NY narrative they use on anybody they don’t want go after…..pretty much anybody under 37 apparently can’t handle NYC

  62. yankeefeminista November 8th, 2012 at 10:20 am

    Yanks sell directly to Stubhub.

  63. austinmac November 8th, 2012 at 10:21 am

    Cash,

    I believe Old Timer’s Day will be every day next year. Once again, we can watch the older guys and remember when. Who doesn’t like to remember when AROD could hit, Granderson could run, Texiera hit over .260? I should be in charge of marketing.

  64. Chip November 8th, 2012 at 10:21 am

    blake November 8th, 2012 at 10:17 am

    The Yankees are really starting to sound ridiculous with this can’t handle NY narrative they use on anybody they don’t want go after…..pretty much anybody under 37 apparently can’t handle NYC
    —————

    I’ve only heard it really brought up once and that was with Greinke.

    If they use it as a reason to not sign Hamilton, I can’t argue with that. I think New York would present him with too much temptation if he had to live here on a regular basis. Again, if it were a Darryl Strawberry type scenario where you went year to year and if something happened you could walk away that would be one thing, but there’s no remedy to get yourself out of a bad contract in baseball if Hamilton were to slip. He already had a minor relapse living in Arlington – I just wouldn’t be comfortable risking it.

  65. blake November 8th, 2012 at 10:24 am

    “I’ve only heard it really brought up once and that was with Greinke.”

    Sherman just tweeted they didn’t think Justin Upton was a good fit in Ny….he’s about 10 years too young

  66. Cashmoney November 8th, 2012 at 10:25 am

    Mac, I think Chip N-Dale will unleash the Centaur in the Rod by taking him off the Yanks payroll… starring Yankee Jock… you get the drift. then you just have show bunch of highlights of 2010 Granderson and 2007 Tex to create excitement. I believe we good on that front.

  67. Bronx Jeers November 8th, 2012 at 10:27 am

    I can’t picture CC wearing a Kevlar cap.

    On the other hand I can see about half the position players wearing Kevlar uniforms.

  68. Chip November 8th, 2012 at 10:30 am

    blake November 8th, 2012 at 10:24 am

    “I’ve only heard it really brought up once and that was with Greinke.”

    Sherman just tweeted they didn’t think Justin Upton was a good fit in Ny….he’s about 10 years too young
    —————–

    Did they give a reason as to why?

  69. Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 10:30 am

    So no one likes my plan to sign another expensive starter lol?

  70. Cashmoney November 8th, 2012 at 10:30 am

    I am pretty sure Bud Selig will be wearing kevlar toupee and helmet to spearhead the experimental stages of baseball SWAT gear, Jeer.

  71. Chip November 8th, 2012 at 10:32 am

    It might be that the person Sherman talked to meant that it wouldn’t be a fit in terms of the Yankees and Arizona not being a good fit for a trade rather than meaning that Upton would have problems in New York. If that’s what they meant – then I agree. I don’t think the Yankees have the type of upper level talent that the D’Backs would want for Upton.

    I haven’t read the tweet so I don’t know.

  72. Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 10:32 am

    Chip – I thought we heard the ‘he can’t handle NY’ at least once an off season. Or maybe its presented more in the form of a question, like, ‘We know X player had a career year last season but it remains to be seen if he can handle the heat in the Bronx..’

  73. austinmac November 8th, 2012 at 10:33 am

    Chip,

    Sherman did not say why, but just the statement they weren’t sure he could handle NYC.

  74. yankeefeminista November 8th, 2012 at 10:35 am

    Chip, their reason was that JUp didn’t have enough of a platoon split for their liking.

  75. Chip November 8th, 2012 at 10:35 am

    austinmac November 8th, 2012 at 10:33 am

    Chip,

    Sherman did not say why, but just the statement they weren’t sure he could handle NYC.
    —————-

    Ok. I think that’s fairly silly to speculate on; though I honestly don’t know anything about J-Ups personality so it could be spot on.

    In the end I think it’s moot because, like I said, I don’t think the two teams match up well in a trade for Upton.

  76. Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 10:36 am

    I just noticed that at the top of LoHud it now says, “Howdy, Shame Spencer”

    Howdy Chad!!!! Love, Chad’s Girls.

  77. mick November 8th, 2012 at 10:41 am

    I think Hal is going to have a hard time handling NY.

  78. austinmac November 8th, 2012 at 10:43 am

    “Yankees not sure Upton is a good NY fit.” That is his quote. It sure sounds like they are talking about his ability to perform in NY.

  79. Chip November 8th, 2012 at 10:47 am

    austinmac November 8th, 2012 at 10:43 am

    “Yankees not sure Upton is a good NY fit.” That is his quote. It sure sounds like they are talking about his ability to perform in NY.
    —————-

    I think it’s ambiguous. Sherman’s due on WFAN this morning, maybe he’ll expand on the point.

  80. Chip November 8th, 2012 at 10:52 am

    But the more I read the more I’m convinced that even if the Yankees wanted Upton or Headley – the Yankees don’t have the chips to get them.

  81. Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 10:53 am

    I’m about to ask a question I don’t care about the answer to: What do the Padres actually need?

  82. Against All Odds November 8th, 2012 at 10:54 am

    Chip November 8th, 2012 at 10:52 am

    But the more I read the more I’m convinced that even if the Yankees wanted Upton or Headley – the Yankees don’t have the chips to get them.

    —————-

    That’s another problem within the franchise.

  83. Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 10:55 am

    Here’s another one: What do the Royals need?

    Maybe Gordon is the most do-able.

  84. G. Love November 8th, 2012 at 10:55 am

    Here’s the thing.; If the Yankees want to get under 189 million by next year they have to do two things to prove to fans they realize what the team’s problems are & they are in it to win it.

    #1 – Go all out for 2013. Offer insane 1 year contracts to anyone who will take them and go all in.

    #2 – Make some trades to get players who could improve the team that are cost controlled.

    Just standing pat and signing scrap heap vets for another year does nothing.

    If the team is seriously intent on cutting payroll now & in the future as they are posturing without making serious trades/signings, it will be the demise of the Yankees.

    We all can see what they are doing. The fans aren’t dumb. The place will be empty if you try to tell us the best RF you could come up with was a Hairston/Dickerson platoon.

    I almost feel like they want to destroy the franchise. They want to see what it’s like to watch Rome burn and see what the “customers” might do.

    It’s a dangerous game.

  85. Chip November 8th, 2012 at 10:57 am

    Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 10:53 am

    I’m about to ask a question I don’t care about the answer to: What do the Padres actually need?
    ———-

    I don’t know, but with the Banuelos injury and Betances set back – the only prospects the Yankees have with significant high minors experience are Eduardo Nunez and Corban Joseph, neither of which are enough to center a package for Headley.

  86. Chip November 8th, 2012 at 11:00 am

    G.Love

    That is the problem in a nutshell. The Yankees want to cut payroll but don’t want to play inexperienced players. You can’t have it both ways.

  87. Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 11:01 am

    Chip – You need to deal from the MLB roster to get any of Upton/Gordon/Headley, I’d think… but yes, the setback with Manny and Betances doesn’t help at all. They still have a ton of pieces though… shall I post the Expendables again? :D

    On the MLB roster alone you could conceivably consider moving Gardner, Granderson, Robertson, Hughes, Nova, or Phelps. I’m not advocating moving any or all of these players, I’m just saying in the right trade you absolutely could include any of them.

  88. jacksquat November 8th, 2012 at 11:03 am

    They don’t really have the chips unless AZ is willing to accept A ball players as major parts, and it sounds like they want major league ready.

  89. Chip November 8th, 2012 at 11:04 am

    Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 11:01 am

    Chip – You need to deal from the MLB roster to get any of Upton/Gordon/Headley, I’d think… but yes, the setback with Manny and Betances doesn’t help at all. They still have a ton of pieces though… shall I post the Expendables again? :D

    On the MLB roster alone you could conceivably consider moving Gardner, Granderson, Robertson, Hughes, Nova, or Phelps. I’m not advocating moving any or all of these players, I’m just saying in the right trade you absolutely could include any of them.
    ————-

    Gardner’s coming off a lost season and is nearly 30, I don’t think he has much trade value

    Granderson does have trade value but not to a team like the Padres where his HRs would turn to outs and they would have to re-sign him anyway (especially since they have a pretty set OF)

    Robertson is a relief pitcher – we love him but he’s not a guy trades get built around

    Hughes is an impending FA

    Nova’s value is down

    Phelps is an unknown.

    But yes, in general I agree with you – some major leaguers would need to be involved. :-)

  90. blake November 8th, 2012 at 11:05 am

    G Love,

    It would be different if they both wanted to get under 189 and also showed that they had a creative and aggressive plan to do so and to stay competitive……that’s what Im waiting on…..

    I can get on board with a real plan…..I have a hard time getting excited by stop gaps and waiting for the curtain to fall…..

  91. Jerkface November 8th, 2012 at 11:07 am

    I haven’t seen any evidence that the Yankees sell directly to stubhub. Their beef is that people buy resold tickets on Stubhub instead of from the Yankees. And instead of blaming high prices they want to end their partnership with stubhub & make a more draconian trading system.

  92. Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 11:07 am

    Chip – You make it sound as if I suggested we’d trade any of those players on their own for one of Upton/Gordon/Headley.

    Obviously there would be a package involving multiple players that would serve multiple purposes. A team might like a guy like Gardner because he’s cheap for a couple years and precisely because he’s coming off a down year. A team might like a guy like Granderson as a stop gap because he provides power. A team might be interested in Roberston as their closer. But obviously it would be a package that would help them both now and in the future because you’d have minor league guys involved like Sanchez, Murphy, Heathcott, Austin, Williams, etc.

  93. blake November 8th, 2012 at 11:09 am

    “That is the problem in a nutshell. The Yankees want to cut payroll but don’t want to play inexperienced players. You can’t have it both ways.”

    Correct…..if they continue to play this middle lane then it’s gonna lead to the gutter.

  94. Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 11:10 am

    Don’t the Sox sell tickets directly to brokers?

  95. Chip November 8th, 2012 at 11:11 am

    blake November 8th, 2012 at 11:05 am

    G Love,

    It would be different if they both wanted to get under 189 and also showed that they had a creative and aggressive plan to do so and to stay competitive……that’s what Im waiting on…..

    I can get on board with a real plan…..I have a hard time getting excited by stop gaps and waiting for the curtain to fall…..
    ———————–

    I agree with you – if the Yankees understood their market – which I’m convinced they don’t. They would know that fans will show up to watch a young, exciting team grow; but not a veteran team deteriorate.

    Instead of going with veteran stopgaps go with Almonte in RF, Romine behind the plate and move Alex to DH and put Adams in at 3b. Go against the grain and trade the established player for the young hot shot in Granderson.

  96. Jerkface November 8th, 2012 at 11:13 am

    Don’t the Sox sell tickets directly to brokers?

    I think most teams sell tickets directly to individuals who will then re-sell them, just not to the actual companies which list them.

  97. austinmac November 8th, 2012 at 11:14 am

    I agree that I see no inkling of a long term plan. Signing one year old players for 2013 does nothing to help in 2014. Yes, it gives them flexibility, but to do what?

    This is very likely the beginning of a significant decline in the Yankees. They have the choices under the 189 plan to go very young or very old. I agree with others, I prefer young since they at least have a hope for improvement.

    George must be rolling over about now. His team and his legacy slipping into a team like the Mets. If anyone doesn’t think that will lose money, check out the Mets’ attendance.

  98. Chip November 8th, 2012 at 11:14 am

    Sherman on Upton/Yankees – it’s a payroll thing, not Upton’s personality. The Yankees feel that giving up 3 or 4 cost controlled players for one high priced player will hurt their efforts to get to $189 – which is fine, but then you have to be willing to play those 3 or 4 cost controlled players and not get scared that you can’t have young kids in your lineup.

  99. Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 11:14 am

    Chip – Spot on. Like I said the other day, the fan base would be willing to go with replacements that we know won’t perform as well as the departing vets, but at least let those replacements be ones with upside as opposed to being on the downturn.

  100. blake November 8th, 2012 at 11:15 am

    I think the Yankees feel like they are satisfying the fans if they just throw together enough grizzly veterans to make the playoffs…..what they don’t get is that fans in general like to have hope for the future….they like to feel like their team is building towards something and that better days might be ahead…..

  101. Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 11:16 am

    Chip November 8th, 2012 at 11:14 am

    Sherman on Upton/Yankees – it’s a payroll thing, not Upton’s personality. The Yankees feel that giving up 3 or 4 cost controlled players for one high priced player will hurt their efforts to get to $189 – which is fine, but then you have to be willing to play those 3 or 4 cost controlled players and not get scared that you can’t have young kids in your lineup.

    ——————-

    Wait…. now Upton is high priced?! I thought JF already made it clear he couldn’t be THAT high priced even if he did negotiate an extension.

    Man, this is what I’m saying though.. if $10-14 million is too high priced for a long term OF option, then us going into every season with only one OFer locked up isn’t a good tactic. They’re projecting TORII HUNTER to make $13 million!!!

  102. Chip November 8th, 2012 at 11:17 am

    blake November 8th, 2012 at 11:15 am

    I think the Yankees feel like they are satisfying the fans if they just throw together enough grizzly veterans to make the playoffs…..what they don’t get is that fans in general like to have hope for the future….they like to feel like their team is building towards something and that better days might be ahead…..
    ————-

    They’re also trying to justify raising of ticket prices. If they make the playoffs they can raise ticket prices, if they don’t, well they’ll still raise them but fewer will sell.

  103. The Return of Stoneburner November 8th, 2012 at 11:17 am

    Based on Sherman’s article I do not even see how the Yanks commit to Robinson Cano on a longterm deal now if the “philosphy” is more important – dang the results. If that is the case, have to explore trade options for Cano – beginning with Seattle which is dire for hitting, then possibly Nationals (who have a good relationship with Boras).

    With Melky – I would proceed cautiously until I know that he is out from any further problems with MLB and the Feds for possibly being involved with the creation of a fake website with false advertisements on it.

  104. austinmac November 8th, 2012 at 11:18 am

    The downside of going young is the Yankees don’t have anyone with upside for at least a year or two. Almonte can’t hit right handed at all. Adams is hitting in the .240s in the AFL, Romine has never shown he can hit enough to be a starter.

    Still, all in all, I would rather go there than go old.

  105. Chip November 8th, 2012 at 11:19 am

    I would be perfectly content with this lineup:

    Brett Gardner – CF
    Jeter – SS
    Cano – 2b
    Tex – 1b
    Alex – DH
    Z. Almonte – RF
    Romine – C
    Adams – 3b
    A. Almonte – LF

  106. The Return of Stoneburner November 8th, 2012 at 11:20 am

    . Adams is hitting in the .240s in the AFL,

    *****

    Adams continues to draw walks in AFL – and suprisingly – he has shown some power (though that could be the product of a hitter friendly power environment – think PCL type). That being said – it is still a small sample size – I am not too concerned about Adams hit tool.

  107. Cashmoney November 8th, 2012 at 11:21 am

    Chip, where is nunez in this equation if you intend to find out something?

  108. The Return of Stoneburner November 8th, 2012 at 11:25 am

    Do you do Cano and Warren for Ackley, Walker, Hultzen, Triunfel, and Jaso?

  109. Chip November 8th, 2012 at 11:26 am

    Cashmoney November 8th, 2012 at 11:21 am

    Chip, where is nunez in this equation if you intend to find out something?
    ————-

    Cashman has said that he won’t consider Nunez for any position other than SS – in which case he has no position. If it were me, I would work him in the OF corners. But most likely I think he’ll be traded.

  110. Chip November 8th, 2012 at 11:26 am

    The Return of Stoneburner November 8th, 2012 at 11:25 am

    Do you do Cano and Warren for Ackley, Walker, Hultzen, Triunfel, and Jaso?
    ————

    Why would the Mariners?

  111. tucker November 8th, 2012 at 11:27 am

    austinmac November 8th, 2012 at 9:58 am
    Shame,

    I disagree they will make money irrespective of the team. Their is much to do in NYC without going to a game to see an expected unhappy ending. A losing team will see attendance drop by 25-50%, IMO. Plus, the Yes revenue will dimisnish as ratings decline. Do you think the average fan will watch a losing team on a regular basis? I don’t. Crazy fans like us may watch, but the average fan can do something more fun.
    Xxxxxxxxx

    This is exactly right. The brand can and will be diminished unless they invest in it …

  112. yankee21 November 8th, 2012 at 11:27 am

    Stone

    Adams is a solid prospect who seems to fly under the radar. I believe he was either a 3rd or 4th round pick out of UVA. He has always hit when not hurt.

    If NY cannot extend Cano in a reasonable deal, then I trade Cano and I allow Joseph and Adams to duke it out at 2B.

    However, I am convinced that obvious scenario has probably been dismissed out of hand by Brian “Creative” Cashman.

    IMO, Cashman’s route will be either sign Cano to some BS exhorbitant 175+ mil deal at the end of next year or allow Cano to walk for a draft pick. The Reyes method of letting high-end talent go for a song.

    Adams will ultimately be a piece to some trade and he will go on to be a solid 2B in the ML with a .280 average. Guys like this do not grow on trees.

  113. austinmac November 8th, 2012 at 11:27 am

    Shame,

    You do understand. Upton is too expensive, Hunter is too expensive, all starting pitchers on the market are too expensive etc. They are going very cheap.

  114. jacksquat November 8th, 2012 at 11:28 am

    Chip November 8th, 2012 at 11:19 am
    I would be perfectly content with this lineup:

    Brett Gardner – CF
    Jeter – SS
    Cano – 2b
    Tex – 1b
    Alex – DH
    Z. Almonte – RF
    Romine – C
    Adams – 3b
    A. Almonte – LF

    I would not. I don’t want rookies just for the sake of having rookies. In 2014 maybe you could fill a couple spots with more talented rookies with more upside (Heathcott, Austin, Williams, Flores).

  115. Cashmoney November 8th, 2012 at 11:29 am

    Cashman has said that he won’t consider Nunez for any position other than SS – in which case he has no position. If it were me, I would work him in the OF corners. But most likely I think he’ll be traded.

    and Cashman is going to play adams and two almontes in the OF realistically? I thought this was your lineup, if it’s hypothetical wishful thinking, then Nunez needs to be in there for Jeter. Just saying though.

  116. Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 11:30 am

    austinmac November 8th, 2012 at 11:27 am

    Shame,

    You do understand. Upton is too expensive, Hunter is too expensive, all starting pitchers on the market are too expensive etc. They are going very cheap.

    ——————–

    Yeah. Yeah I know…

  117. austinmac November 8th, 2012 at 11:30 am

    The large market Mets were 17th in attendance last year as it has declined nearly a million poeple as the team loses.

    Chip, your lineup is young, but in reality wouldn’t finish .500.

  118. The Return of Stoneburner November 8th, 2012 at 11:31 am

    Chip November 8th, 2012 at 11:26 am
    The Return of Stoneburner November 8th, 2012 at 11:25 am

    Do you do Cano and Warren for Ackley, Walker, Hultzen, Triunfel, and Jaso?
    ————

    Why would the Mariners?

    ******

    Okay – so my first offer has been rejected.

    Do you do Cano, Nunez, Joseph, and Warren for Ackely, Hultzen, Mauer, Truinfel and Jaso

  119. Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 11:32 am

    4 rookies making the roster ain’t happening… If you resigned Ichi for a year though, I could see the 4th OF option being a minor league guy. At least that would make sense.

    Nunez should be trying to be a 3B/SS.

  120. The Return of Stoneburner November 8th, 2012 at 11:32 am

    Err – did not mean Joseph – - – -

  121. Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 11:33 am

    Romine/Cervelli could be the new Martin/Stewie lol. But Martin hits 20 HRs, so you know they aren’t parting with that. He’s half a hair monster!

  122. austinmac November 8th, 2012 at 11:33 am

    I don’t get the Nunez is only a SS concept. Then, he will get to play 20 games a year if Jeter is healthy. He is the only player with some marginal upside with any MLB experience and they bury him.

  123. Chip November 8th, 2012 at 11:34 am

    The Return of Stoneburner November 8th, 2012 at 11:31 am

    Chip November 8th, 2012 at 11:26 am
    The Return of Stoneburner November 8th, 2012 at 11:25 am

    Do you do Cano and Warren for Ackley, Walker, Hultzen, Triunfel, and Jaso?
    ————

    Why would the Mariners?

    ******

    Okay – so my first offer has been rejected.

    Do you do Cano, Nunez, Joseph, and Warren for Ackely, Hultzen, Mauer, Truinfel and Jaso
    ————

    But again, why would the Mariners deal a long term 2b option in Ackley – along with all the other players, for a 2b who they might have to sign to a huge contract in Cano?

  124. Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 11:34 am

    hairy*

  125. The Return of Stoneburner November 8th, 2012 at 11:35 am

    yankee21 November 8th, 2012 at 11:27 am
    Stone

    Adams is a solid prospect who seems to fly under the radar. I believe he was either a 3rd or 4th round pick out of UVA. He has always hit when not hurt.

    If NY cannot extend Cano in a reasonable deal, then I trade Cano and I allow Joseph and Adams to duke it out at 2B.

    However, I am convinced that obvious scenario has probably been dismissed out of hand by Brian “Creative” Cashman.

    IMO, Cashman’s route will be either sign Cano to some BS exhorbitant 175+ mil deal at the end of next year or allow Cano to walk for a draft pick. The Reyes method of letting high-end talent go for a song.

    Adams will ultimately be a piece to some trade and he will go on to be a solid 2B in the ML with a .280 average. Guys like this do not grow on trees.

    *****

    I completely agree. And I am beginning to become frustrated with Cashman after defending him and the regime in the past. They do not need to become much more creative if they are serious about this 189 budget – instead of trying to pat themselves on the bat with dumpster diving – for every Raul Ibanez – there is a Josh Phelps or Tony Womack fans have to live with in April and May – - – -

  126. Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 11:35 am

    austinmac November 8th, 2012 at 11:33 am

    I don’t get the Nunez is only a SS concept. Then, he will get to play 20 games a year if Jeter is healthy. He is the only player with some marginal upside with any MLB experience and they bury him.

    ———————

    It’s a continuation of the poor strategic moves they make to develop players.

  127. Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 11:36 am

    @Buster_ESPN

    Craig Shipley, who had a lot of success scouting internationally for the Boston Red Sox, has joined the Arizona Diamondbacks.

  128. Chip November 8th, 2012 at 11:36 am

    austinmac November 8th, 2012 at 11:33 am

    I don’t get the Nunez is only a SS concept. Then, he will get to play 20 games a year if Jeter is healthy. He is the only player with some marginal upside with any MLB experience and they bury him.
    ————

    It’s the Montero scenario. The Yankees have determined that Nunez is a butcher defensively at every other position but he has a potentially good bat. Keeping that bat at ss maximizes his trade value. Other teams will see the bat and say “we can make him an OF” whereas if the Yankees put him in LF then other teams will say “well he’s got a decent bat but no place to play.”

  129. The Return of Stoneburner November 8th, 2012 at 11:36 am

    But again, why would the Mariners deal a long term 2b option in Ackley – along with all the other players, for a 2b who they might have to sign to a huge contract in Cano?

    *****

    In my hypothetical worlds – the Mariners would pony up b/c they have the resources to play with Boras. So assume Jack Zombie knows they are going to commit to Cano.

  130. Chip November 8th, 2012 at 11:37 am

    austinmac November 8th, 2012 at 11:30 am

    The large market Mets were 17th in attendance last year as it has declined nearly a million poeple as the team loses.

    Chip, your lineup is young, but in reality wouldn’t finish .500.
    ———-

    It’s moot – the Yankees would never be willing to play that many rookies.

  131. jacksquat November 8th, 2012 at 11:38 am

    Next year’s crop of free agent starting pitchers is weak, which could benefit Zack Greinke since teams won’t be able to find a stopgap and reassess next year. Josh Johnson and Tim Lincecum highlight next winter’s pitching crop, and both come with question marks.
    Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#Dk8GhHk3RfTRFLQm.99

    This is what I have tried to point out here in the last couple weeks. For 2014 as of right now, the Yankees have CC – Nova – Phelps. You have to assume Kuroda and Pettitte will not come back for yet another year (even this year is in doubt). Hughes will be a free agent and locking him up is a debateable decision, and he would need to improve significantly to be a #2 starter for the Yankees. We have no idea what Pineda will look like. So… Greinke? I’ve already outlined in pretty good detail how the Yankees could afford him (while keeping Cano).

  132. The Return of Stoneburner November 8th, 2012 at 11:39 am

    Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 11:36 am
    @Buster_ESPN

    Craig Shipley, who had a lot of success scouting internationally for the Boston Red Sox, has joined the Arizona Diamondbacks.

    *********

    I still do not see the Sox being a fit for Upton – Rangers have much better chips – but word here in DFW is that the Rangers want pitching as much as hitting. Do the Rays finally pony up their pitching depth?

    I could see the Sox making a play for Bauer – but that would require the Xavier kid I would think – but this Shipley guy was with the Sox it appears when they signed him internationally – that makes me afraid – - – -

  133. chicken little November 8th, 2012 at 11:39 am

    To me, the big issue is not the $189 million. Hal wants to be cheap, that is his problem. The big issue is the philosophy. Basically there is none. What Cashman is essentially saying is :I want cheap veterans whose best days are behind them but I figure with enough of them we sneak into the playoffs and pray we somehow win. I also don’t want to trade prospects to fill needs, but I won’t let the prospects play because its NY and I can’t afford to allow 5-6 prospects be on a team at once. Maybe I will let one or two play, but I won’t take time to properly develop the player once he is ready for the bigs, won’t define the role, will yo-yo the player around, and then be stunned when the player struggles.”

    Eduardo Nunez and Ivan Nova are the perfect examples. Nova was great last year in part because he was a pitch to contact pitcher with solid stuff. This year someone got the great idea to let Nova be a strikeout pitcher. When that didn’t work, and Nova was dumb enough to pretend all was Ok (“just bad luck”) they yank him. Nunez is another proof. He can hit but has trouble fielding, and as we know DJ is ss. So what do the Yankees do? First make him a utility player (with no hope of learning a position), then demote him, then promote him only to insist he is a ss going forward. What they should be doing this off season is having him play winter ball at a new position.

  134. The Return of Stoneburner November 8th, 2012 at 11:40 am

    It’s moot – the Yankees would never be willing to play that many rookies.

    *******

    I think you are only playing Ackley and Jaso. The other three begin the year in AAA.

  135. Chip November 8th, 2012 at 11:40 am

    The Return of Stoneburner November 8th, 2012 at 11:40 am

    It’s moot – the Yankees would never be willing to play that many rookies.

    *******

    I think you are only playing Ackley and Jaso. The other three begin the year in AAA.
    ————

    Sorry, that wasn’t directed at your post.

  136. Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 11:41 am

    squat – I think a really good argument could be made for Grienke on the basis that you’d move two other starters (at least) for more hitting. I don’t think they’ll invest in it.. but I think I could get behind this more than the Hamilton deal. (Again, all predicated on the idea they’d attain offense through trading starting pitching.)

  137. DONNYBROOK November 8th, 2012 at 11:42 am

    So the Yanks are gonna go Cheap in RF, and pay Soriano $13.3 Mill to set-up??? Absolute Lunacy. If it’s me, I trade Cano, and hope Soriano turns down the $13.3 that I NEVER woulda offered the guy in the first place. That saves the Yankees roughly $28.3 Mill. NOW, go get J Upton at roughly $8 Mill AAV. The prospects surrendered are well worth getting this player at $8 Mill AAV for 3 yrs. If you gotta negotiate a new deal with him in order to get him to agree to the trade, simply make the new contract effective following the end of his current contract. The Yanks will be under the $189 at that point. Still gotta wonder why Gutless Hal voted to approve the current CBA.

  138. Chip November 8th, 2012 at 11:45 am

    Stone – the problem I see with the Mariner deal is that I don’t think Cano is a leader and that’s the role he would have to assume if he was traded (and signed long term) there.

    I have absolutely no problem trading Cano, none whatsoever – I find it preferable to committing to him through the 2023 season – but I don’t think teams will line up to give up top young talent for him, not unless they are a player or two from being a contender (which the Mariners are not) or a team that has other veteran leadership (which the Mariners don’t)

  139. Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 11:50 am

    @Ken_Rosenthal

    #Dodgers still have option of playing H. Ramirez at SS or 3B. Team officials encouraged by SS Dee Gordon’s early play in DR.

  140. yankee21 November 8th, 2012 at 11:51 am

    …Still gotta wonder why Gutless Hal voted to approve the current CBA….

    Real simple, it gave Hal suitable cover to cry the CBA payroll tax is a constraint to funding and thus fielding a championship- caliber team. It also gave him cover as an excuse not to hike payroll necessary to field a championship caliber team in spite of idiotic contract commitments by his brother Hank regarding Arod.

    In Hal’s world, under the new CBA Hank’s monumental Arod contractual mistake became not his problem but was shifted to the fan’s problem until 2017 is over.

  141. blake November 8th, 2012 at 11:53 am

    Hal loves the new CBA

  142. austinmac November 8th, 2012 at 11:53 am

    Hal voted for the new CBA because it gives him justification to reduce payroll. Baseball is making him do the cuts, doncha know?

    The people on this board often give rational views about how to proceed. However, since they differ from the way the Yankees have operated in the past, they seem beyond the ability of the Yankee brass. Imagine signing a good free agent, getting depth and trading an existing high paid player.

    Far too creative. Plus, it would require spending on a player for more than one year.

    The plan is to let everyone possible walk in 2014. Just think of all the draft picks. I hope those draft picks can be signed cheaply.

  143. The Return of Stoneburner November 8th, 2012 at 11:54 am

    Chip November 8th, 2012 at 11:45 am
    Stone – the problem I see with the Mariner deal is that I don’t think Cano is a leader and that’s the role he would have to assume if he was traded (and signed long term) there.

    I have absolutely no problem trading Cano, none whatsoever – I find it preferable to committing to him through the 2023 season – but I don’t think teams will line up to give up top young talent for him, not unless they are a player or two from being a contender (which the Mariners are not) or a team that has other veteran leadership (which the Mariners don’t)

    *****

    That is fair – and I think you are right. Maybe the Nationals fit the criteria – I don’t know. I am just not sure playing it out with Cano in 2013, then getting into hard nails negotiations next winter is something I would go through if I were them (which I am not) – getting out ahead of Cano and that situation might be more proactive – but very true – finding the right team and package will probably prove to be more difficult.

  144. Captain Clutch November 8th, 2012 at 11:54 am

    I hope that this is a joke….
    ———-

    ESPNJoeyMac: Source: Red Sox have had preliminary talks with former Yankee Tino Martinez for the hitting coach job.

  145. The Return of Stoneburner November 8th, 2012 at 11:55 am

    Sorry, but that Sherman article really struck a cord this morning. It is one thing to have a philosphy and a goal – but they are not going about it the right way – imo.

  146. blake November 8th, 2012 at 11:55 am

    Say it ain’t so Tino

  147. AAA November 8th, 2012 at 11:55 am

    Adams will ultimately be a piece to some trade and he will go on to be a solid 2B in the ML with a .280 average. Guys like this do not grow on trees.

    ==========================================

    He’ll be 26 on Opening Day and hasn’t yet had a PA at the AAA level. Think we’re talking Jeff Keppinger with a little more pop.

  148. The Return of Stoneburner November 8th, 2012 at 11:55 am

    Another thing – I think Hal and company WAIVED their right to all of a sudden get dire about the 189 million when they threw around money on previous longterm contracts.

  149. Chip November 8th, 2012 at 11:56 am

    yankee21 November 8th, 2012 at 11:51 am

    …Still gotta wonder why Gutless Hal voted to approve the current CBA….
    —————

    Immaterial – it would have passed with or without his vote.

  150. DONNYBROOK November 8th, 2012 at 11:56 am

    Don’t see how Hal can cry about something he helped put in place. You want cover, you Vote NO, and then jump on the soap box and continually warn the fans about the pain ahead. Hal lacks both brains and stones.

  151. Chip November 8th, 2012 at 11:57 am

    AAA November 8th, 2012 at 11:55 am

    Adams will ultimately be a piece to some trade and he will go on to be a solid 2B in the ML with a .280 average. Guys like this do not grow on trees.

    ==========================================

    He’ll be 26 on Opening Day and hasn’t yet had a PA at the AAA level. Think we’re talking Jeff Keppinger with a little more pop.
    ————

    The only reason he hasn’t advanced higher faster is because he missed most of the 2010 and 2011 seasons with injuries.

  152. blake November 8th, 2012 at 11:58 am

    The Return of Stoneburner says:
    November 8, 2012 at 11:55 am
    Another thing – I think Hal and company WAIVED their right to all of a sudden get dire about the 189 million when they threw around money on previous longterm contracts.

    No no….it’s the CbAs fault…..don’t look at us…

  153. austinmac November 8th, 2012 at 11:59 am

    MLBTR says the Yankees are “fixated on one-year contracts this off-season”. Of course they are. What does that mean? Forget anyone who is young or wanted by another team.

    They will not trade Cano since it would let even the least attentive fan see winning is no longer paramount. They want to dupe them another year by keeping him and adding filler while saying they believe the team is competitive.

    Competitive is a far cry from championship calibre.

  154. yankee21 November 8th, 2012 at 11:59 am

    ….Immaterial – it would have passed with or without his vote…

    Maybe so, but there is no record of his fighting it.

  155. G. Love November 8th, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    While I know he is exactly the kind of hitter we’re all trying to get away from, I wonder if Cashman is all over Jason Kubel in a trade from the Diamondbacks.

    He makes 7.5 million a year and has an option for 7.5 million in 2014 w/$1 million buyout and would exceed the power numbers produced by Swisher.

    Doesn’t do much defensively and batting average wise, but he feels like the kind of player Cashman gravitates to.

    Kubel would hit well over 30Hr’s as a Yankee.

  156. DONNYBROOK November 8th, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    Some of you Must believe Cano is a Very popular Yankee. Your confusing a fan liking a player’s Numbers, with actually liking the player. Cano is NO more popular than Gardner or Grandy. Dealing Cano would Not lead to a palace revolt.

  157. 86w183 November 8th, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    The only “long term” commitment since the passing of the CBA is the CC extension.

    None if you has a clue what Hal’s arguments for or against the CBA were behind closed doors, yet you’re happy to label the owner with the highest payroll in all of sports a cheapskate and a penny pincher who doesn’t give a damn about winning.

    You’re nuts.

    He gave the OK to risking $ 40 M in salaries to Kuroda, Swisher and Soriano in an effort to get something back for any/all of them should they decide to move on. That is NOT the act of someone who is more concerned about $$$ than winning.

  158. blake November 8th, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    I think Kubel is probably too young to be a fit in NY

  159. jacksquat November 8th, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    Chip November 8th, 2012 at 11:56 am
    yankee21 November 8th, 2012 at 11:51 am

    …Still gotta wonder why Gutless Hal voted to approve the current CBA….
    —————

    Immaterial – it would have passed with or without his vote.

    It’s not immaterial. It’s true that it would have passed regardless, but George used to fight this type of thing all the time, and loudly. George didn’t make the best decisions but the money and unrelenting desire to win at almost any cost was a constant. And that combined with letting (or initially being forced to have) baseball people make more decisions was good. Hal seems to be all about the money, the lip service about winning is thinly veiled.

  160. Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 12:08 pm

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  161. 86w183 November 8th, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    Cano is NO more popular than Gardner or Grandy. Dealing Cano would Not lead to a palace revolt.

    ************************************************************************

    I agree… IF they get MLB talent for him. Cano in a deal for Upton or Cargo or Headley wouldn’t bother anyone. Cano for AA and AAA studs would.

  162. AAA November 8th, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    The only reason he hasn’t advanced higher faster is because he missed most of the 2010 and 2011 seasons with injuries

    =========================

    Perhaps. Though he wasn’t particularly outstanding at the lower levels, especially for a kid coming out of college. He was solid, but not great. My point is, he probably can’t be relied on as a starting MI for a contender. Might represent a solid secondary piece in a trade though.

  163. Captain Clutch November 8th, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    I think that Hal and Cashman are going to find out that getting down to $189m and making the playoffs every year is hard to do with this current roster. It’s something that would have to be planned out and done in a 4-5 year plan. Having 2 outfield prospects ready for the majors in AAA would also be the key to making it work. They can’t keep losing major stars from the lineup like Damon, Matsui and to a lesser degree Swisher and not expect it to hurt them. I would love to see them resign Ichiro and sign Hunter. But hearing that they wouldn’t even sign Hunter isn’t good to hear. In the next couple of years the lineup will be built around Tex and Cano. They really need to add another big right handed bat to that combo.

  164. blake November 8th, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    @jonmorosi: Brian Cashman says #Yankees roster has “gaping holes.” Is this a playoff team in 2013? My column: http://t.co/Sir5LIte @MLBONFOX

  165. Shame Spencer November 8th, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    :arrow:

  166. Against All Odds November 8th, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    And I am beginning to become frustrated with Cashman after defending him and the regime in the past.

    —————–

    What took you so long :D

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