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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Phelps stands out in a thin class of Yankees rookies

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 12, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

On October 1, in game No. 160 of 162, Melky Mesa pinch hit in the eighth inning of a blowout against the Red Sox. He singled up the middle, Eduardo Nunez scored and Mesa stood at first base smiling like a little kid on Christmas.

It was the first of only two rookie at-bats for the Yankees this season.

Tonight, the Baseball Writers Association of America will announce its choices for Rookie of the Year. Needless to say, the Yankees won’t factor heavily into the discussion. Jesus Montero was traded, Manny Banuelos was hurt and Dellin Betances was demoted. The Yankees might have to lean more heavily on its young talent in the coming years, but that transition certainly didn’t start this year.

Mesa was the Yankees only rookie position player, and he only got into three games. Of the six rookies who pitched for the Yankees, only two pitched as many as five innings. The others were one-game spot starter Adam Warren, September lefty Justin Thomas, occasional mopup man D.J. Mitchell, and shuttling fill-in Ryota Igarashi.

So an all-Yankees Rookie of the Year ballot looks something like this:

1. David Phelps
2. Cody Eppley
3. blank

Eppley was a nice pickup. Grabbed off the waiver wire scrap heap at the end of spring training, he settled in as a trusted middle-innings reliever who could generate some groundballs, hold right-handers to a .227 average and occasionally give multiple innings when necessary. He was helpful — more valuable than expected — and he could provide some bullpen depth again next season. He might not be Rookie of the Year material, but he’s a nice pitcher. More useful than he seemed when the Yankees made a quiet waiver claim before the start of the season.

Of course, Phelps is the real prize of this tiny rookie class.

The last man to make the roster out of spring training, Phelps emerged from the shadows of Banuelos and Betances, and set himself apart from the secondary group of Warren and Mitchell. He was aggressive and gutsy, and the only Yankees who pitched at least 10 innings with a lower WHIP were the elite arms on the team: CC Sabathia, Andy Pettitte, Hiroki Kuroda, Rafael Soriano and Dave Robertson.

Phelps won’t get any Rookie of the Year attention, but for a pitching staff crushed by injuries, he gave the Yankees what they needed. And for a team trying to cut payroll, he could provide more in the future.

“I don’t pencil him in anywhere right now, but I think he’s best as a starter,” Brian Cashman said. “Good starters can all go to the pen. Pens are where failed starters go. He can do that. All our starters can do that.”

Associated Press photo

 
 

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132 Responses to “Phelps stands out in a thin class of Yankees rookies”

  1. Shame Spencer November 12th, 2012 at 9:01 am

    I think Chad’s trying to make us cry…. Chad, can we get confirmation on this?

  2. Shame Spencer November 12th, 2012 at 9:08 am

    Yankee Trader November 12th, 2012 at 9:00 am

    no one on Team Greedy wants to trade Tex, Cano, or Arod.
    —————————-
    Shame-

    I want to trade ARod. I’m a card carrying member of Team Greedy. Is that bad? :)

    ——————-

    Trader – For why? The only reason to want to trade Arod is salary related as far as I’m concerned. The man is one HELL of a DH (.307/.371/.467/.837) and is still a solid 3B defensively.

    I want to keep Arod… AND get a young 3B in the mix.

  3. austinmac November 12th, 2012 at 9:11 am

    Next year’s class looks no better, unfortunately. But, they may have to play with all the openings. Adams is the only one I see that can stick. Mesa looks like a player until you see his Ks. He is striking out more than once every three ABS in the winter league.

    I hope they work Gumbs more at short this year. Eventually, they will neeed soemone there. His timing could conceivably work if he keeps developing. Scouts like his ability.

  4. Yankee Trader November 12th, 2012 at 9:11 am

    Blake-

    If you want a bat, this would be my A pick from the Nats and his contract:

    Ryan Zimmerman:

    6 years/$100M (2014-19), plus 2020 club option
    signed extension with Washington 2/26/12
    14-18:$14M annually. 19:$18M, 20:$18M club option ($2M buyout)
    5 year/$10M personal-services contract, to begin once playing career ends
    no-trade protection, beginning in 2014
    if traded in 2012-13, salaries increase to $16M in 2014 and $18M in 2015-18, with 2019 and 2020 option unchanged and personal-services contract voided

    I’d like Ian Desmond and Michael Morse. Morse is a FA after 2013 season, so he fits Cashman philosophy-Have as many players off the books before 2014.

  5. yankeefeminista November 12th, 2012 at 9:15 am

    Re-posts:

    yankeefeminista says:
    November 12, 2012 at 9:06 am
    Pruf, I too remember some of those questionable routes Heathcott took. But I also haven’t seen him field live in a couple of years. Big thing is him staying healthy. We’ll also get a better sense of his fielding seeing him every day in Trenton. I like the level swing; think more power will come with consistent playing time although Trenton’s park won’t be kind to him. I really liked Mason’s routes in the little I saw of him.

    yankeefeminista says:
    November 12, 2012 at 9:13 am
    MTU, that’s the thing though; again I wouldn’t trade premium positions: wouldnt trade
    Sanchez period, Slade/Mason (unless I was pretty darn sure on health of Slade if I were keeping him, but I do love Mason), and an mlb ready pitcher unless we have a stand in. So I’d trade one CF IF I got a top player and Austin IF I were getting back JUp, but not Sanchez no matter what. JR and Romine aren’t in Sanchez’s class. I’d doubt Towers would take a Brett Marshall/Warren in a JUp deal.

  6. Yankee Trader November 12th, 2012 at 9:19 am

    Shame:

    Unless ARod gets off to a fast start in YS, he’s going to become persona non grata in a hurry. His contract is the albatross around the Yankees necks, which makes it almost impossible to compete in this marketplace. Team Greedy becomes Team 189.

    They won’t be booing Cashman and Levine, or Hank and Hal. They’ll be booing Alex Rodriguez.

    Again if he has a bad start, maybe he’ll initiate talks with Cashman to get him out of the Big Apple.

    JMHO.

  7. Shame Spencer November 12th, 2012 at 9:20 am

    Whoa…

    @entylawyer

    The voice of Elmo has taken a leave of absence from Sesame Street after being accused of having a relationship with a 16 year old boy.

  8. Shame Spencer November 12th, 2012 at 9:22 am

    Trader – Everything you said makes sense for a team with a budget… fortunately for me, Team Greedy’s whole purpose is to blow the budget out of the water if it means giving us the best chance at a WS.

    The fact that Arod’s contract is an albatross just doesn’t concern me. It’s not my fault he’s signed to it and I’m not paying it lol, so the only reason it bothers me is because the Yankees are letting it bother them.

  9. tomingeorgia November 12th, 2012 at 9:22 am

    Shame,
    Too may punchlines to that report.

  10. tomingeorgia November 12th, 2012 at 9:24 am

    “many”

  11. Shame Spencer November 12th, 2012 at 9:24 am

    tom – Don’t I know it!!! Obviously, the first thing I did was report the news to Erin :|

  12. Yankee Trader November 12th, 2012 at 9:35 am

    YF-

    Let’s look at what Kevin Towers would need. His team was 81-81, 13 GB in the West.

    They have 3 good starters-Kennedy, Cahill and Miley. Daniel Hudson is out after TJ surgery last summer. They could use a starter.

    They have Putz and now Bell in the BP. Their bullpen looks set.

    They need a SS better than Willie Bloomquist, Cody Ransom, John McDonald.

    They had Chris Johnson at 3rd, who put up decent numbers, but had 19 errors.
    Maybe looking for an upgrade there.

    Lost Young and if Justin Upton goes, you have Jason Kubel as your only power bat with Adam Eaton and Gerardo Parra. They might want a corner OF bat with some pop.

    With a good package in return for Upton they should still contend in the West.

    Would a 3 way deal, net us Justin Upton?

    Use Texas for a whopper, 3 way, deal?

  13. PacoDooley November 12th, 2012 at 9:42 am

    I could honestly see the Dodgers being interested in acquiring A-Rod and Cano in a package (and move Ramirez to SS), but I have no idea what they would actually have in terms of value that the Yankees would get back in such a deal. The Dodgers would then want to hang onto their prime MLB level talent since that would indicate a run at a title (with Cano on a 1 year deal and A-Rod in decline). Otherwise, I cannot see another team in a position to do such a deal.

  14. Yankee Trader November 12th, 2012 at 9:46 am

    Blake, Chip-

    3 way whopper deal, with Texas and Arizona, netting Justin Upton to the Yankees.

    Players that could be involved:

    Hughes
    Phelps
    Cano
    Upton
    Hill
    Kubel
    Kinsler
    Andrus
    Olt

    Others?

    Can you make a 3 way trade work?

  15. blake November 12th, 2012 at 9:46 am

    Trader,

    Zimmerman is still expensive though and getting up there in age…..Id target Rendon and maybe morse and Jordan Zimmerman.

  16. BIG AL November 12th, 2012 at 9:46 am

    Good morning all.

    Those that expect the Yankees to give their young talent a chance to contribute, I say remember A-Jax, our future CF? Remember Montero, our future C? Just to name a couple. It’s not as though the NYY are not developing talent, its that they don’t recognize the real talent they have, properly develop that talent, and have the patience to allow the talent to grow.

    Just think, A-Jax in CF, a better overall player today than Granderson, and much cheaper, and the same goes with Montero.

    Just saying the new cheap NYY will not go over 189, and could care less about the team they field, so long as the Stein Bros. continue to reap the $$$$$$$$.

    I’ve said this numerous times, Hal, sell the team to Mark Cuban, please!

  17. blake November 12th, 2012 at 9:48 am

    “Can you make a 3 way trade work?”

    If Andrus and Profar are off limits it’s be tough…..I doubt the Rangers and Yankees would trade with each other…..plus I think Daniels would want Upton for himself

  18. blake November 12th, 2012 at 9:52 am

    Yankees get : Justin Upton
    Dbacks get : Mike Olt, Nunez , and Phelps
    Rangers get : nova and Romine

    Best I can do and I doubt either team does it ;)

  19. BIG AL November 12th, 2012 at 9:52 am

    Question, who in the Yankees system could play 3B, and equal, or better, A-Rod production?

  20. Shame Spencer November 12th, 2012 at 9:53 am

    I’m starting to go cold on Upton… because I’ve resigned myself to the fact that we’re not getting him unless we use a genie lamp and some magic beans.

    I feel like we’re going crazy, so I wish we’d go even more crazy and just call a AA guy up and let him eff things up. This might be the best time to just call up a bunch of kids, ready or not, since the fans will still be focused on being mad at Arod, Grandy, Tex, etc. Even if the kids are bad, they likely won’t earn the err of the fans.

  21. andrewmelillo November 12th, 2012 at 9:53 am

    Havent yankees fans learn about getting other team garbage an have patience with are farm stop all this trade talk they won 95 games all they need to add youth hungry players to this retirement home

  22. Shame Spencer November 12th, 2012 at 9:53 am

    BIG AL November 12th, 2012 at 9:52 am

    Question, who in the Yankees system could play 3B, and equal, or better, A-Rod production?

    ————-

    No one.

  23. St. Pete Yankee November 12th, 2012 at 9:54 am

    Melky will be remembered forever for missing third base in his very first appearance in a game.

  24. BIG AL November 12th, 2012 at 9:55 am

    The Rays have made it known they might be willing to deal Price.

    It may sound crazy, but, I’d offer Cano straight up for Price, and see if there were an interest. That deal would help both clubs.

  25. blake November 12th, 2012 at 9:57 am

    @Ken_Rosenthal: Torii Hunter just said on @MLBNetwork’s new Hot Stove show about his free-agent decision: “It’s going to be quick.”

  26. andrewmelillo November 12th, 2012 at 9:58 am

    Arod will be playiñg to his contract up or hurt no one wants that non clutch no steroid arod on the team yankees should have null his contract when he admitted

  27. blake November 12th, 2012 at 9:58 am

    I can’t see the Rays ever trading with the Yanks and they can’t afford Cano anyway……if they trade Peice it’ll be for a boatload of controllable youn players most likely

  28. Shame Spencer November 12th, 2012 at 9:58 am

    @Ken_Rosenthal

    Torii Hunter just said on @MLBNetwork’s new Hot Stove show about his free-agent decision: “It’s going to be quick.”

  29. blake November 12th, 2012 at 9:59 am

    The Rays would have to trade Cano at the deadline so they didn’

  30. BIG AL November 12th, 2012 at 9:59 am

    Shame Spencer -

    What about moving Corban Joseph to 3B?

  31. blake November 12th, 2012 at 10:01 am

    Adams is pretty good….I don’t think he’d match a healthy Arods production but he’s a good player that seems to be holding his own at 3B…..I have seen CoJo play much but most accounts are that he doesn’t have the arm strength to play 3B

  32. Yankee Trader November 12th, 2012 at 10:01 am

    BIG AL-

    Price and Cano. Both FA’s after next season. Price is Jeter’s neighbor in Tampa. The Rays would not be able to retain Cano.

    Mark Cuban-Let Hank and Hal come on his TV show,”Shark Tank” and propose the sale! :)

    Blake -I’m working on a 3 way deal with Texas, NY and Arizon- a whopper.

  33. blake November 12th, 2012 at 10:03 am

    Blake -I’m working on a 3 way deal with Texas, NY and Arizon- a whopper.”

    Figure out a way for us to get Upton , Andrus , and Olt :)

  34. yankeefeminista November 12th, 2012 at 10:04 am

    YT, I don’t see the deal as possible, considering what Towers would want, even in a three wayer. They want a top young SS; not sure they’d consider Nunez that player.

    blake, you feel comfortable giving up both Phelps and Nova? Aren’t you a little concerned about our pitching depth?

    CoJo is not athletic, period. He struggled this year in the field. If he had the D, he’d already be up. His bat is mlb ready.

  35. andrewmelillo November 12th, 2012 at 10:05 am

    Its not nunez fault he is a shortstop not thirdbasemen or the outfield they had him playing everywhere stay at shortstop an bring adam up to play third an second who goñña play first if tex gets hurt swish will be gone

  36. blake November 12th, 2012 at 10:06 am

    “blake, you feel comfortable giving up both Phelps and Nova? Aren’t you a little concerned about our pitching depth?”

    To get Upton I would yes…..now that’s assuming Kuroda and Pettte both came back….and they could add another veteran arm….maybe try to get Haren in a one year deal…..but you gotta break some eggs to make an omlet and for the excersise Trader was asking we don’t have much else to offer ;)

  37. Yankee Trader November 12th, 2012 at 10:08 am

    Yankees get : Justin Upton
    Dbacks get : Mike Olt, Nunez , and Phelps
    Rangers get : nova and Romine
    ————————
    Blake. Think bigger:

    Yankees get: Upton, Kinsler and Ogando
    DBacks get: Andrus, Murphy, Joba, Austin
    Rangers get Cano, Hughes, and Kubel and Eaton

    Would that work for all teams?

  38. Yankee Trader November 12th, 2012 at 10:10 am

    Yes I would wait until Kuroda and Pettitte are coming back.

  39. blake November 12th, 2012 at 10:11 am

    I don’t think the Rangers would do that deal…,, not sure in would from the Yanks POV either

  40. blake November 12th, 2012 at 10:13 am

    The Rangers would be getting two players that are in their walk years in Cano and Hughes and be trading two players that are fairly cost controlled…..Andrus is still cheap and Kinslers deal is a lot cheaper than Cano’s will likely be

  41. Shame Spencer November 12th, 2012 at 10:15 am

    I can’t see the Rays trading with the Yanks but I’d throw a lot their way for Price.

    Oh wait.. but we’d have to pay him at some point…

  42. Yankee Trader November 12th, 2012 at 10:15 am

    Torii Hunter wants to be a regular everyday player. The Dodgers couldn’t guarantee him that. Will the Yankees jump in and give him 12M for one year? Would that do it?

  43. Shame Spencer November 12th, 2012 at 10:15 am

    @Wildaboutmusic

    Wow, I may never use the phrase #TickleMeElmo the same way.

    :D

  44. BIG AL November 12th, 2012 at 10:15 am

    I may be in the minority here, but, I don’t see replacing todays A-Rod, that difficult.

    I don’t foresee A-Rod being anything but a shell of what he once was, and that player could be replaced with any mid level 3B in MLB today, sad but true.

  45. BIG AL November 12th, 2012 at 10:16 am

    Later …………

  46. Shame Spencer November 12th, 2012 at 10:17 am

    AL – I’ve heard mixed reviews on Joseph’s defense. I’m all for it, but if Adams is already a solid 3B, they’re probably better off going in that direction.

    Either way, a healthy Arod is an asset. His DH numbers are great and he isn’t a defensive liability.

    I wish people would just get over how much he gets paid, but I can’t realistically expect them to if the Yankees won’t.

  47. blake November 12th, 2012 at 10:17 am

    In the deal I proposed…..the Rangers get a catcher that’s big league ready and a pitcher that can go right in the rotation and they aren’t giving up one of their SSs and the Dbacks get a 3b, a SS, and a big league ready starter……and the yanks get Upton.

    The issues are that the Rangers would want Upton for themselves and I doubt they’d help facilitate the Yankees getting him…..also they might not be getting enough in the deal

  48. blake November 12th, 2012 at 10:18 am

    “I wish people would just get over how much he gets paid, but I can’t realistically expect them to if the Yankees won’t.”

    Correct….it’s a lot harder to get over it when ownership holds it over their own teams head

  49. Yankee Trader November 12th, 2012 at 10:19 am

    Blake-

    Just throwing out something to stimulate some talk. Cano would sign with the Rangers long term in that deal and Hughes is from Texas.

    Anyway I still don’t believe the Yankees match up one on one with the DBacks for Upton. Especially with what Towers needs in return.

  50. blake November 12th, 2012 at 10:20 am

    Hughes is from SoCal….

  51. Ys Guy November 12th, 2012 at 10:20 am

    yankees have to do something dynamic. arod is a dead weight hanging over the entire franchise.

    run this same team out there next year and attendance will drop by a third. an old boring team that wins has some appeal, an old boring team that loses is not worth anyone’s attention.

  52. austinmac November 12th, 2012 at 10:20 am

    So Hunter will decide quickly. Good, that will take another name off the board. The sooner good players sign, the sooner we can see who is left. Then, the off season can begin.

  53. blake November 12th, 2012 at 10:23 am

    The biggest move the Yankees will make this year will probably be moving Gardner to CF

  54. Shame Spencer November 12th, 2012 at 10:24 am

    austinmac November 12th, 2012 at 10:20 am

    So Hunter will decide quickly. Good, that will take another name off the board. The sooner good players sign, the sooner we can see who is left. Then, the off season can begin.

    ———————–

    :lol:

  55. Yankee Trader November 12th, 2012 at 10:24 am

    Blake-

    Oops my bad. Hughes is from the San Diego area. Maybe a 4 team deal then getting the Yankees Upton and Headley. :)

  56. Shame Spencer November 12th, 2012 at 10:25 am

    I think people severely undervalue Arod’s skill based solely on his contract. Arod is still a very solid 3B. His injuries over the past two seasons have been unrelated, he provides good defense (not stellar or great, but good), and didn’t just forget how to hit…. he’s one of the most talented players to ever play the game. Dead weight is a guy like Pavano or Igawa or Jones, who get paid to literally give you nothing.

  57. Ys Guy November 12th, 2012 at 10:25 am

    if thats the big move of this offseason, watch people abandon this team in droves next year.

  58. Shame Spencer November 12th, 2012 at 10:27 am

    I like the idea of trading starting pitching but the more we keep reading about them not wanting anyone on the books for 2014 the scary it’s getting…. We could have up to 3 question marks going into 2014 in our rotation.

    If you move 2 of Nova/Phelps/Hughes…. won’t sign anyone for more than a one year deal… without any AAA guys banging on the door…. I dunno, this is scary!!

  59. blake November 12th, 2012 at 10:28 am

    “Oops my bad. Hughes is from the San Diego area. Maybe a 4 team deal then getting the Yankees Upton and Headley. ”

    I approve !

  60. Yankee Trader November 12th, 2012 at 10:29 am

    Blake-

    If the Yankees sign Kuroda for one year@15M, Pettitte comes back for 11-12M, Rivera returns for 11-12M with 1-2M in incentives, Gardner goes to CF, Granderson to LF, which is the cheap option for RF?

    Ibanez and Hairston platoon
    Dickerson and Mustelier platoon
    FA Ichiro?

  61. blake November 12th, 2012 at 10:30 am

    “If you move 2 of Nova/Phelps/Hughes…. won’t sign anyone for more than a one year deal… without any AAA guys banging on the door…. I dunno, this is scary!!”

    As I’ve said….they put their eggs in the Pineda basket so to some degree they have to bank on him making it back…..I still believe in Banuelos long term and then they have Marshall and Depaula and Campos and Hensley coming in the future hopefully……they don’t have a ton of options if they wanna make a move…..their prospects are too far away (or hurt ) on make a bold trade so really all they have to offer is young pitching

  62. blake November 12th, 2012 at 10:31 am

    “which is the cheap option for RF?”

    Probably Ichiro but it doesn’t really matter…..

  63. Ys Guy November 12th, 2012 at 10:32 am

    ok so you admit arod’s a ‘good’ defensive 3bman, and we’ve seen his offensive production drop by half over the past 5 seasons. thats a very solid pattern to work off. it indicates that continued deterioration of his offense is almost certain going forward.
    so he’s an increadible distraction to the team, and what they get for putting up with that distraction is a ‘good’ 3bman who will play less than half the yankees games at 3b this year (he fell all the way to 81 games played at 3b this year) and an underperforming and rapidly declining hitter who has become totally non-clutch.’

    as for this “he’s one of the most talented players to ever play the game,” that’s ancient history if that counts for something lets sign willie mays…

  64. UnKnown November 12th, 2012 at 10:32 am

    D’antoni it is. From the Easr Coast to the West Coast and paired up again with Nash. I hope he has came up with a defensive plan since leaving the Knicks.

  65. Shame Spencer November 12th, 2012 at 10:33 am

    If Pineda can’t contribute this year… it puts us in a very precarious position in 2014. Man I hope that kid can get healthy and be productive by the end of this year… it would make things so much easier going forward.

  66. brianlopez22 November 12th, 2012 at 10:33 am

    Blake. Think bigger:

    Yankees get: Upton, Kinsler and Ogando
    DBacks get: Andrus, Murphy, Joba, Austin
    Rangers get Cano, Hughes, and Kubel and Eaton

    Would that work for all teams?

    ——————————————

    YT -
    I don’t see why we should/would deal Cano?

    He is easily the best hitter on the team and deserves his payday this year.
    I am totally for making trades to make this team younger and more line drive oriented.

    HOWEVER, Cano is a deal stopper for me.
    I understand Hal wants his $189 million payroll, but they should have thought about that before they made Cashman the GM.

    He has dealt from strength in the past and been burned already. (See Ajax and Montero)

    Personally, Hal and Hank need to move their dealine out to 2017, so we know we have young, controlled talent that can make this feasible.

    The FA talent this year is awful and the only way to get younger is to make deals but Cano is untouchable, like Jeter, Mo, and CC. Everyone else is on the table.

    I do think your trade idea is creative but the Yanks are giving up A LOT in your scenario: Cano, Hughes, Austin, and Joba… wow!

  67. blake November 12th, 2012 at 10:34 am

    “If Pineda can’t contribute this year… it puts us in a very precarious position in 2014″

    We can quote Michael Scott again if you like :)

  68. jacksquat November 12th, 2012 at 10:35 am

    As long as it’s not 2 years, I can live with Hunter, even though I think there is a good chance he doesn’t repeat last year’s numbers. I’d rather pay less to Melky though, and probably get as much if not more production. Ichiro, to be honest, I’m scared what his obp might be.

  69. Shame Spencer November 12th, 2012 at 10:36 am

    YS – There’s a lot of speculation/assumption in there… Arod holds the Yankees back only if they let him. I won’t be mad at Arod for that. His DH numbers are awesome. His D doesn’t hurt you.

    Him being a distraction to the team, IMO, is overblown and only happens because the Yankees let it happen. They make his contract an issue… so it’s an issue. Get Headley, make it not an issue, and it’s the best platoon in MLB.

  70. DONNYBROOK November 12th, 2012 at 10:39 am

    - YANKEE OFFSEASON PRIORITIES -

    (1) SIGN KURODA – 2YRS? OK

    (2) SIGN PETTITTE – #3 SP

    (3) TRADE A-ROD – Eat whatever necessary of that contract. Nunez = stop gap

    (4) TRADE FOR HEADLEY\J UPTON – Chips available = Cano\Gardner\Nunez\ Granderson\Phelps\Nova\Hughes\Robertson\Bushers\$$$

    (5) SIGN SIZEMORE – Cheap OF insurance.

  71. Yankee Trader November 12th, 2012 at 10:41 am

    Brian-

    Looking at the scenario where Cano reaches FA and gets his big payday in years and $$$$ with Scott Boras as his agent and Cano reportedly having told teammates/friends he’s not giving a hometown discount.

    Anyway, hopefully Kuroda and Rivera are signed ths week, and Pettitte plans to return.

    Still hoping for a better option than Martin for the next 2-3 years.

    Have a great day everyone.

    Until later.

  72. brianlopez22 November 12th, 2012 at 10:41 am

    YT –

    In my opinion, we have to try and move Granderson.
    ARod is not going anywhere (he eats 16% of Hal’s magic number). We have to watch him guess for the next five years.

    Don’t sign Hunter or Ichiro, I would also see if Melky wants to come back for a 1 year deal.
    If not, give RF to the kids (let’s see who steps up).
    Moving Cano + 3 players for JUpton and Kinsler is replacing a good hitter for more swing and miss guys, and I can’t stand watching guys strike out 150+ times.

  73. Ys Guy November 12th, 2012 at 10:42 am

    after what happened this postseason how can you say the distraction factor is overblown? and its going to continue as long as he’s on the team. the booing of him next season is going to be constant and questions about him and the fan’s riding him will be topic #1 all season long.

    its only a matter of time before the yankees either release him or pay full frieght to trade him. until that happens he’s a 16 ton weight hanging over the franchise.

  74. Shame Spencer November 12th, 2012 at 10:46 am

    YS – That distraction actually helped half of our line-up get out of the line of fire. It’s NY, there always has to be a villain. I think it’s ridiculously overblown. He got more boos in 2007, when he was having a career year.. they didn’t let that push them to trade him. He can be a distraction as long as they win. The FO has to make that happen.

  75. jacksquat November 12th, 2012 at 10:46 am

    Shame, I would not put too much stock in Arod’s DH numbers. They are a bit flukey and as the season went on his DH numbers started to normalize towards his 3B numbers (his DH numbers were much better earlier in the season).

    However, Arod did not really need to DH as much as he did. Once Gardner got injured, Ibanez was used a lot in the field, which opened up DH vs rhp, so it was easy to put Chavez at 3B and Arod at DH.

  76. Ys Guy November 12th, 2012 at 10:49 am

    he got more boos in 2007?!? were you in the stadium for this PS ( i realize few were…)? (i was).
    in 2007 arod was in his prime. now he’s 37 and in steep and steady decline.

  77. DONNYBROOK November 12th, 2012 at 10:54 am

    Girardi calling up to the press box, and generally having to tip-toe around the highest paid player in MLB is Ridiculous. Trade the guy while he has ANY value what-so-ever.

  78. brianlopez22 November 12th, 2012 at 10:58 am

    Hal has to implement the $189 million Arod discount to his number.

    What’s Arod’s discounted worth? i.e. Hal should eat the difference between the contract they negotiated (against themselves when he opted out) and what he should have been signed for.

    My guess is $15mm, so $15 mm should be added to the 189 mm contract, making it $204 mm.
    (The 15 mm is what a real contract would have valued ARod at the time, with an annual decay: 30 for 5, then 15,14,13,12,11 –> giving him a 10 year deal at 215 mm)

    As a business executive, you have to be willing to give your corporation a chance to succeed. Adding Arod at full value kills that dream. Additionally, having Cashman as GM for 14 years and destroying the farm, with only a handful of REAL major leaguers (Cano, Gardner, Robertson, Hughes, etc.) makes the job almost impossible.

    However, if you only add Arod’s Fair Market 2007 value, now Cashman has some wiggle room to try and build some talent from the farm for the next 5 years.

    This gives the organization a fighting chance.
    Especially since over these next 5 years, we will have CC, Tex, Granderson coming off the books and some promising minor leaguers ready to contribute in the next 3 years (Tyler Austin, Heathcott, Gary Sanchez, Mason Williams, Bichette Jr., and two or more of the kids on the mound: Banuelos, Betances, DePaula, Marshall, Warren, Hensley)

    Just a thought.
    If you can move Arod, then you can look to keep your hard line.

  79. Ys Guy November 12th, 2012 at 11:00 am

    mike schmidt probably didnt do steroids and was DONE by 38. george brett hung on till he was 40, but he was done at 38. joe torre was done at 36, eddie matthews was done at 36. wade boggs hung around forever but was done at 38. brooks robinson had nothing left by the time he turned 38. (sensing a pattern here?)

    how old will arod turn this august?

  80. Shame Spencer November 12th, 2012 at 11:02 am

    Ys Guy November 12th, 2012 at 10:49 am

    he got more boos in 2007?!? were you in the stadium for this PS ( i realize few were…)? (i was).
    in 2007 arod was in his prime. now he’s 37 and in steep and steady decline.

    —————

    YS – Yes I was there this year.. and every year prior. No offense, but you must seriously be blocking out how much booing the guy got during his best season ever as a Yankee. They booed him WHEN HE HIT HOME RUNS AT THE STADIUM!!!!

    I’m sure other posters on here will verify. It was awful. He got booed for doing good things regularly.

  81. Jerkface November 12th, 2012 at 11:03 am

    HAL cannot add any discount to the 189 figure because the point of it is to increase profits by taking advantage of the rebate, not paying any luxury tax, and reducing payroll. Jeter’s contract was supposed to be from the ‘yankee legends budget’ as well.

  82. Shame Spencer November 12th, 2012 at 11:04 am

    Again, YS, everything I think of Arod is irrespective of his contract because I just don’t care how much he gets paid. I didn’t give him the deal, I’m not paying the deal, and I’m not happy with my 5+ billion dollar organization pretending the deal is what’s holding them back from being great.

    I just want Hal to let the Yankees be great.

  83. jacksquat November 12th, 2012 at 11:10 am

    189 is the reality. If you accept reality, you accept that Arod has a 27.5 AAV plus a couple more years with 6 mil stings to the budget, but you are getting maybe the production of a roughly 10 mil player. That hurts the rest of the team. You literally could have two good players for what Arod makes, one of them replacing Arod’s production, the other for “free”.

  84. blake November 12th, 2012 at 11:12 am

    I know that the Yanks want under that luxury tax but the half empty stadium in the playoffs had to worry them a bit…..they can’t risk damage to the brand and there probably is a point where they could stand to lose more money than they save .

    They can point to 95 wins all they want but fans aren’t dumb and they could see that the 2012 team really overachieved to get where they did…..the can see the holes and the age creeping up and if the playoffs attendance is any indication the fans aren’t gonna play along with this budget business as well as the ownership may like…..

  85. austinmac November 12th, 2012 at 11:14 am

    My only hope is the Yankees truly understand which direction fan support is trending. Their are many empty seats. Can you imagine ten years ago a playoff game with significant empty seats?
    Add that to an 8.3% Yes ratings decline this year, and one would hope they could see the trend.

    Unfortunately, no effort seems to be made to encourage the fans. Today in one of the papers Cashman says the fans will be satisfied with some of the players in certain position and dissatisfied with others.

    Let me guess, we will be satisfied with Jeter and Cano and unhappy about the rest.

  86. Shame Spencer November 12th, 2012 at 11:14 am

    @Buster_ESPN

    The Red Sox are doing extensive background work on Mike Napoli, who could fit them as C or 1B or combo 1B-C-DH vs. lefties.

  87. Ys Guy November 12th, 2012 at 11:15 am

    17 HR, 60 rbi (his 2 year average ) is worth $10M/year? on what planet?

    people have separated themselves from reality here. i keep hearing people say things like ‘he’ll give them 140 games and 30 homers next year. that’s only gonna happen if he gets barry bond’s steroid supplier. he hastnt played 140 games in 7 years (since he was 31) and 30 homers is just about double his current rate.

  88. DONNYBROOK November 12th, 2012 at 11:18 am

    If you gotta package Cano with A-Rod being the “kicker”, so be it. Cano spit-the-bit, when Jeet went down. Cano is certainly a Very good player, but he’s NO leader. The kinda long-term deal it will take to retain Cano should be reserved for Yankee Leaders.

  89. austinmac November 12th, 2012 at 11:19 am

    One thing that needs mentioning about income is empty, paid for seats. Those empty seats still cause the loss of a bunch of income. When you go to a game, how much non-ticket money are you spending in food, drinks, souvenirs and the like?

    What if attendance declines by 25%? That has to be a loss of $50M or more. That could easily be the annual loss for attendance. Plus, huge revenue losses from advertising price declines on Yes.

    Putting a team that does not cause the fans to want to see them or have the fans truly believe they can win will cost far more than luxury tax.

  90. DONNYBROOK November 12th, 2012 at 11:21 am

    Let’s NOT get carried away. The stadium was Not “half empty”. There were empty seats, and YES viewship was down, but this aint the Titanic. Let’s move A-Rod and Cano, and Then take the Yankee’s temperature.

  91. NYYanksFan November 12th, 2012 at 11:26 am

    “we will be satisfied with Jeter and Cano and unhappy about the rest.”

    Cano’s postseason hasn’t soured people on him too? I thought that’s how in their prime players are judged by Yankee fans.

  92. Shame Spencer November 12th, 2012 at 11:27 am

    @Buster_ESPN

    Michael Pineda making progress as he comes back from surgery. Was checked out by doctor today, continued throwing program at Yankee Stadium.

  93. jacksquat November 12th, 2012 at 11:28 am

    Ys Guy November 12th, 2012 at 11:15 am
    17 HR, 60 rbi (his 2 year average ) is worth $10M/year? on what planet?

    I was being generous. If he continues as he has, he is probably not even worth that. That’s why I said if you can unload that contract just by trading away Cano, who they may not want to sign to a 8 year contract anyway, then you do it. It hurts short term but helps tremendously long term. I don’t know if you could get a prospect that would give you enough performance at a low enough salary to equal what you would save by unloading Arod’s contract.

    Anyway, probably no one is taking Arod anyway, and this discussion is moot.

  94. jr1212 November 12th, 2012 at 11:28 am

    I was at Game 5 vs. Baltimore. While at first the stadium was half empty, by the end the stadium was rockin and there were only some empty seats….

  95. austinmac November 12th, 2012 at 11:31 am

    The Titanic can still avoid the iceberg, but it is still out there, and I’m not sure management sees it. In 1964, management thought winning and profits were predestined for the Yankees because of past success. That led to the worst twelve years of baseball since pre-Ruth days along with collassal loss of income.

  96. Shame Spencer November 12th, 2012 at 11:33 am

    No one is taking ALL of Arod’s contract for one year of Cano….

    I wish someone would be that stupid though, and if they are I’m gonna be on board just because it’d be the only way to get the Yanks to stop from bellyaching about the payroll they put together. SMH.

  97. austinmac November 12th, 2012 at 11:34 am

    Crawford’s contract looks like a bargain compared to AROD. At least he is young enough to bounce back. AROD has been declining for several years. Anyone think he will really bounce back? He cannot be moved. It is the worst contract over the next five years in baseball.

  98. austinmac November 12th, 2012 at 11:35 am

    What do you think the average amount of dollars spent by a fan including ticket price and the rest?

  99. DONNYBROOK November 12th, 2012 at 11:37 am

    That Yahoo in Florida is paying Ozzie $6.5 Mill to sit at home. That would be my 1st call onna Cano\A-Rod deal.

  100. Shame Spencer November 12th, 2012 at 11:37 am

    I dunno… at least when we resigned Arod he was the best player at his position (and arguably in baseball at the time). Crawford got top dollar for not being close to the best player at his position. I can’t see him living up to that value anymore than Arod has.

  101. Jerkface November 12th, 2012 at 11:38 am

    That Yahoo in Florida is paying Ozzie $6.5 Mill to sit at home.

    For 1 year, and they replaced him with a guy making managerial peanuts.

  102. Shame Spencer November 12th, 2012 at 11:39 am

    If the Marlins can be convinced to take ALL of Arod’s contract, by all means ship him off along with Cano (assuming that’s what it takes).. but it won’t stop them from fielding a sub-par team next year. That much I’m almost sure of. They’d trade them and still be trying to lock people up for one year pacts.

  103. Shame Spencer November 12th, 2012 at 11:41 am

    austinmac November 12th, 2012 at 11:35 am

    What do you think the average amount of dollars spent by a fan including ticket price and the rest?

    ——————

    Good question.. if you could find figures on the total gross for the Yanks per game you could probably calculate out the average.

  104. Shame Spencer November 12th, 2012 at 11:43 am

    @DKnobler

    Tigers and Rangers both want Hunter, who says he’ll sign somewhere soon – http://cbsprt.co/ZvsZut

  105. jacksquat November 12th, 2012 at 11:43 am

    austinmac, generally speaking in those years you speak of, roughly 66-73, the Yankees’ team payroll dipped to being far from the highest in baseball. After George bought the team in 73, it quickly jumped back up and the Yankees started winning again shortly thereafter.

    I don’t know if that applies to this team, since the Yankees will still have a top payroll in baseball. Of course, the Yankees need to make good decisions to have a team performance commensurate with the payroll.

  106. NYYanksFan November 12th, 2012 at 11:44 am

    Too much focus on only A-Rod once again.

    Subtract A-Rod’s salary from the 189 and 162 million is left.

    Every team but the Yankees, Phillies and Red Sox had payrolls last year under 162 million dollars and 2 of those teams didn’t make the postseason.

    27 teams found a way to build a roster for less than $162. The Yankees can get A-Rod’s production, whatever that may be, for free if they can figure out how to do it.

  107. DONNYBROOK November 12th, 2012 at 11:45 am

    Yanks are gonna have to eat at least half of A-Rod’s contract. That is a given.

  108. austinmac November 12th, 2012 at 11:46 am

    Jacksquat,

    The 1965 team probably still have a decent payroll since they had the aging core. Sound familiar?

  109. brianlopez22 November 12th, 2012 at 11:53 am

    NYY,

    But do they also have as much money invested in CC, Tex, Granderson, Mo, Jeter, etc.
    The problem is that this team has already sunk their cash in a handful of players.

    189 million is possible but then a playoff team is impossible.

    They would need to simply promote AA and AAA players and pay them the league minimum.
    Anything is possible, but what is realistic?
    The Yankee Brand cannot go the way of the Royals or Pirates.

    So their 189 mm payroll is unrealistic.

  110. jacksquat November 12th, 2012 at 11:53 am

    austinmac November 12th, 2012 at 11:46 am
    Jacksquat,

    The 1965 team probably still have a decent payroll since they had the aging core. Sound familiar?

    Yes, I see what you are saying, the Yankees will have a top payroll but will be overpaying at least two players. But what is the solution? The Yankees will not exceed the cap 2014-16. So if you say Arod and Tex combined are overpaid by 25 mil, that means the Yankees will be operating like a 153 mil team (189 is really 178, 178 -25 = 153). So they need to unload Arod and/or Tex, or more realistically, they need to try to make up for their relative lack of performance by making good decisions elsewhere.

  111. Ys Guy November 12th, 2012 at 11:55 am

    it’ll be 70% at a minimum and the sooner they do it the better-off they will be.

  112. DONNYBROOK November 12th, 2012 at 11:58 am

    I’d take .30 cents on the dollar to be rid of A-Rod.

  113. blake November 12th, 2012 at 11:58 am

    Shame beat me :(

  114. Jerkface November 12th, 2012 at 11:58 am

    There is no scenario in which eating 100 million dollars is something they will be ‘better off’ doing.

  115. Ys Guy November 12th, 2012 at 11:59 am

    two down years (it will only take one to dramatically decrease the LT penalties) will not greatly damage the yankees brand and will give them advantages moving beyond. in the short term it might suck but in the long run it might make the francise stronger.

    i dont think the red socks franchise value has dipped much at this point despite 3 non PS seasons.

  116. blake November 12th, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    “November 12, 2012 at 11:58 am
    There is no scenario in which eating 100 million dollars is something they will be ‘better off’ doing.”

    Maybe if mike Trout was coming back in the trade

  117. Shame Spencer November 12th, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    Jerkface November 12th, 2012 at 11:58 am

    There is no scenario in which eating 100 million dollars is something they will be ‘better off’ doing.

    ————–

    Yep.

    This is what will happen, we’ll pay Arod 70%+ of his contract to go away and then still have the FO complaining they can’t do anything to the current squad because they’re paying a player to do work for another club.

  118. blake November 12th, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    They will keep Arod and sign Jonesy

  119. Ys Guy November 12th, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    there is no scenario in which they will be ‘better off’ with arod on the roster.

  120. Shame Spencer November 12th, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    i dont think the red socks franchise value has dipped much at this point despite 3 non PS seasons.

    —————-

    The Red Sox are an org comfortable going 80+ years without a championship. Expectations wise, there is no comparison. Let them keep spending their money to see a sh*tty ball club if they must. You know when people from QUEENS are smarter than you, there is a problem.

  121. austinmac November 12th, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    Jacksquat,

    I wish I knew a solution. Without question, if they are not re-signing Granderson and Cano, they have to move them for the best deal. They can’t let them walk for a supplemental pick. If AROD could be moved and save a ton, then of course, do it. I can’t see that happening.

    Many of us wanted the Yankees to go after Cespedes and Darvish because they are quality players at reasonable(for most of MLB)cost. However, they don’t want to add anyone that is costly even of efficient cost.

  122. Shame Spencer November 12th, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    Now I KNOW Chad’s goal is to make us cry.. :arrow:

  123. Jerkface November 12th, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    there is no scenario in which they will be ‘better off’ with arod on the roster

    Considering he can still play third and can still hit, actually there is. There is no one you can even replace him with right now.

  124. brianlopez22 November 12th, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    To all the discussions about ARod and the boos,
    the George Steinbrenner days where he could eat such a large payroll are gone.

    If Hal is dead set of 189 mm, then ARod need to contribute > 33% of the starting lineups offense. That’s A LOT to ask of anyone.

    To proactively achieve the 189 mm payroll:
    9 starting offensive players would average $9 mm/plyr
    5 bench players average $4 mm/plyr
    5 starters average $9 mm/plyr
    5 bullpen average $3 mm/plyr
    Closer gets $12 mm/plyr
    15 remaining players on 40 man average $1 mm/plyr

    So again, if you pay Arod $26mm in 2014, he would each 32% of the starting lineup’s salary.
    Creating those expectations is unfair for anyone.

    Tex is not that much further at 28.5%
    And you better believe Jeter will not agree to play for his $3 mm commitment for 2014.
    Assuming you pay keep Cano at $20 mm and negotiate with Jeter for $10, you are committing the entire available salary to your whole lineup to 4 players. Meaning you would need 8 players to play for $22 mm.

    $189 mm does not seem reasonable as long as you have ARod making 26 mm at the age of 39.
    It was a terrible contract and Hal needs to eat his contract + the luxury tax implications.

  125. Jerkface November 12th, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    And you better believe Jeter will not agree to play for his $3 mm commitment for 2014.

    Jeter’s option is for 8 million, and he gets a 1.5 million bonus for silver slugger. The count against the 189 limit is 14+1.5 or 9 (if he opts out)

  126. brianlopez22 November 12th, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    remember, 189 is not for this year but 2014.

    The committed payroll shows $3 mm for Jeter, where did you get 15.5?

    https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tpQLwiiQL4kzEzLhsUqVjLQ&output=html

  127. brianlopez22 November 12th, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    I see the Player Option for $8 million, so its either $8 mm, a renogotiated contract, or a buyout of $3 mm.

    http://baseballplayersalaries......erek_Jeter

    I see the renegotiation happening, especially if he is ready for April and can get 175+ hits.
    Hence, renegotiating at $10 mm for 3 more years seems plausible.

  128. Jerkface November 12th, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    Jeter’s player option is 8 million for 2014. The option is increased by 1.5 million with his silver slugger. Player options are guaranteed years by luxury tax standards so it will count as 14 AAV for luxury tax purposes (15+16+17+8 / 4) so if he accepts the option he will count as 15.5 (14+1.5).

    Due to luxury tax rules, if he declines the option the Yankees will have to count 6 million + 3 million buyout against the luxury tax limit for 2014.

  129. brianlopez22 November 12th, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    So it makes even more sense to re-negotiate that last year of his contract before the 2014 season, because if he gets a (10 + 9 + 8) / 3 contract, he would only count as 10.5 mm against the tax.

  130. Jerkface November 12th, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    That math doesnt work. If you replace his 4th year with a 3 year extension for 27 million he will count as 12.5

  131. brianlopez22 November 12th, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    not a 3 year extension, a re-negotiated contract.

    They aren’t getting credits for the first 3 years so you can’t count them, as they have already been paid.

  132. FreeAgentSignee November 13th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    I agree Chad.
    Go Yankees!


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