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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Three thoughts on the morning after the blockbuster

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 14, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Let’s assume a dozen players are about to pass their physicals with no deal-breaking complications. If that happens, the blockbuster will be complete, the Blue Jays will have a reconstructed roster, and the Marlins will have hit the reset button on last winter’s ill-conceived spending spree.

It’s a massive trade, one that came after little more than minor rumbles about Toronto being interested in starting pitching and the Marlins looking to lose some salary. Josh Johnson is the headliner, but the deal is full of recognizable names, and the Marlins best remaining player has made his thoughts clear with a single tweet:

Alright, I’m (ticked) off!!! Plain & Simple

I might be able to use the word he used, but I’ll play it safe on this one. The point comes across either way. There’s plenty to think about in the wake of this trade, and the ramifications certainly trickle down to the Yankees and the rest of baseball. It’s going to take a while to fully wrap our heads around it, but here are three things that we’ve already learned in the wake of last night’s megadeal.

The American League East isn’t so top-heavy these days
The Orioles almost won the division this year, and the Red Sox finished in last place. The American League East isn’t what it used to be, and it’s clear that the Blue Jays have noticed. I have no idea whether the Orioles can repeat what they did this season, but I’m also not sure the Red Sox can completely rebuild in a single year. I know the Rays are perpetually dealing with budget constraints, and the Yankees are feeling the weight of their previous spending.

Toronto’s blockbuster proves that the lights are on and the monsters are gone. There’s nothing to be afraid of any more. The Rays broke through five years ago, the Orioles broke through this year and now the Blue Jays are ready to take their turn.

Spending money guarantees nothing in this game
Last winter, the Marlins were the big spenders, and it was a sight to see. Armed with a new stadium and renewed hope, the Marlins made splash after splash. They signed Heath Bell. Then they signed Jose Reyes. Then Mark Buehrle. Now all three are gone. First Bell in a salary dump to the Diamondbacks, then Reyes and Buehrle in the blockbuster.

Why? Because the Marlins overhauled roster lost 93 games, finished in last place and decided to start over rather than patch the holes and give it another shot. Player development. Roster construction. Individual performance. Injury prevention. Blind luck. These things also play a role in a team’s success. Money can certainly help, but if it’s spent the wrong way, it can do plenty of harm as well.

Alex Rodriguez will not be traded this winter
Dumping salary is much easier in theory than in practice, and the Yankees third baseman has the worst contract in sports. Finding a team to take him would be remarkable, and getting anything in return might be even more difficult. The Marlins salary dump showed just how difficult it is to move bad contracts: To make the deal work and get value in return, Miami had to include an in-his-prime ace, which is the most valuable commodity in the sport.

Even if the Yankees did have a hope of trading Rodriguez, Miami was the one team that most often floated in such speculation, and now it’s clear that the Marlins are going the opposite direction. Even if the Marlins did decide that taking on a high-profile player like Rodriguez makes sense — and clearly they have some payroll space available – is there any chance Rodriguez would waive his no-trade protection to play for a team that’s in the process of a massive rebuilding effort?

Associated Press photo

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122 Responses to “Three thoughts on the morning after the blockbuster”

  1. blake November 14th, 2012 at 9:00 am

    If the Yankees allow Cano to reach free agency then there will be so many teams in on him and boras will have so much leverage that the Yankees will either have to give him a 200+ million dollar deal or they will just have to let him walk for a draft pick…..

    This is why I have been suggesting that if they can’t work out a discounted deal with him now…..then they should consider Hamilton as a cheaper Cano replacement and plan on Robbie leaving after 2013.

    Hamilton carries risk yes….but his contract figures to be both cheaper and shorter on term than Cano’s will be and it would allow the Yankees to keep a middle of the order hitter in the lineup should they have to part ways with Cano……plus youd have them both in 2013.

  2. blake November 14th, 2012 at 9:02 am

    The Dodgers have always been the most likely destination if the Yanks could unload Arod…..the Marlins stink and they were in cost cutting mode….so even if Arod would go there it was unlikely that a deal could happen that would make sense for the Yankees…..the Dodgers are the only team dumb enough to maybe take enough money that it would be worthwhile……and that’s highly unlikely as well

  3. MTU November 14th, 2012 at 9:04 am

    Time to walk the Mops.

    Have fun spinnin’ your wheels.

    Later.

    :)

  4. Shame Spencer November 14th, 2012 at 9:05 am

    Sneaky Chad.. repost:

    Shame Spencer November 14th, 2012 at 9:04 am

    Morning All – Does last night mean CB is officially part of the know-nothing group of complainers on here that can’t just seem to be thankful for the existence of the NY Yankees? ;)

  5. Yankee Trader November 14th, 2012 at 9:06 am

    The Yankees, we determined cannot fit another long term 20M plus contract within budget with Sabathia, CC, Tex, all signed thru the full operating years of the current CBA.

    There are too many other expenses-benefits, marketing bonuses that will come into play possibly 2015 for ARod, arbitration cases, free agents after this season-Hughes, Joba, Logan, etc. Plus they need to allow for Jeter’s increase in salary 2014 and inseason acquisitions.

    The Yankees need to field offers for Cano, and get either major league ready top prospects or reasonably cost controlled young players in return.

    I question whethter another team, knowing Boras is the agent, will allow the acquiring team to give him an extension. If not, then his value is dimished.

    Blake-Rangers to make up for the loss of lefty bat Hamilton?

  6. blake November 14th, 2012 at 9:07 am

    “The Yankees need to field offers for Cano, and get either major league ready top prospects or reasonably cost controlled young players in return.”

    Lets hear some proposals that make sense

  7. blake November 14th, 2012 at 9:08 am

    “Morning All – Does last night mean CB is officially part of the know-nothing group of complainers on here that can’t just seem to be thankful for the existence of the NY Yankees? ”

    CB is too dignified to join team Greedy….but he’s quietly support is behind the scenes !

  8. Shame Spencer November 14th, 2012 at 9:09 am

    blake – What pitchers only have one or two years left of control on their deals? I think that would probably be the best bet in a swap for Cano as far as big league talent. Other than that, I think you need to role the dice on a top prospect and wait until he’s ready.

  9. Yankee Trader November 14th, 2012 at 9:10 am

    You want the Yankees to dump salry-get those with NT clauses to waive them?

    Hire Bobby Valentine and soon ARod will be begging for a trade.

  10. blake November 14th, 2012 at 9:11 am

    “blake – What pitchers only have one or two years left of control on their deals? I think that would probably be the best bet in a swap for Cano as far as big league talent.”

    I have to get young offense back if I’m dealing Cano…..

  11. blake November 14th, 2012 at 9:12 am

    I can think of deals for Cano I might do with the following teams: Tigers, Rangers, Nats, Dbacks, Mariners

  12. Shame Spencer November 14th, 2012 at 9:12 am

    blake – Too true lol, we’re not much for being dignified.

    I do feel like now is a good time to point out, given Thanksgiving (aka: the best holiday ever) is right around the corner, that being thankful or grateful for something like a sports team is pretty effing dumb… I’ll reserve my thanks for things that are actually important and hate on the Yankees lack of spending all I want, thankyouverymuch!

    Priorities people. Priorities.

  13. Shame Spencer November 14th, 2012 at 9:14 am

    blake November 14th, 2012 at 9:11 am

    “blake – What pitchers only have one or two years left of control on their deals? I think that would probably be the best bet in a swap for Cano as far as big league talent.”

    I have to get young offense back if I’m dealing Cano…..

    ————

    Oh right!! And here I was just posting about priorities!!! Okay okay…. so what bats only have a couple years of control? Isn’t Gordon only signed for 2 more seasons?

    I still can’t believe this was a team that last year was trying to get King Felix…….. where did THAT money go, exactly?

  14. AAA November 14th, 2012 at 9:15 am

    I can think of deals for Cano I might do with the following teams: Tigers, Rangers, Nats, Dbacks, Mariners

    =========================

    Let’s hear ‘em.

  15. Chip November 14th, 2012 at 9:15 am

    As I said last night – the Florida Marlins are a joke, an absolute joke and if I was a government official in Miami I would certainly be making inquiries about whether or not the city has any recourse against the Marlins organization to recoup the money they sunk into the Stadium.

    Craig Calcaterra has a great breakdown on the history of Jeff Loria going back to his Expos days as backup for why he and his people should be out of baseball:

    http://hardballtalk.nbcsports......lptocracy/

    The bottom line for me is that I am torn, on the one hand I think Bud Selig should invoke the “best interests in baseball” clause to veto this deal. On the other hand I think he should let it go so that people just completely give up on the Marlins and the organization disappears. Though if the latter happens I’m forced to wonder – what team will Jeff Loria own next?

  16. Chip November 14th, 2012 at 9:16 am

    Oh, and I loved Bryce Harper throwing a little gas on the fire last night – in response to Giancarlo Stanton’s tweet Harper wrote “You can always come play for the Nats.”

  17. Shame Spencer November 14th, 2012 at 9:18 am

    What did Giancarlo say? I love when guys go off the cuff on Twitter lol… they’ll probably never be Yankees but it’s fun to watch PR people try to control someone with no filter.

  18. Shame Spencer November 14th, 2012 at 9:19 am

    @JonHeymanCBS

    other issue is #marlins are said by source to be “under water” (they do have spiffy new stadium tho)

    ——————

    Um… How are they under water already?!

  19. blake November 14th, 2012 at 9:19 am

    “Let’s hear ‘em.”

    It’s hard to get specific but players Id target from those clubs.

    Tigers: Castellanos , Rondon
    Nats: Rendon, Morse, Jordon Zimmerman
    Dbacks: Upton, Bauer, Skaggs
    Rangers: Martin, Andrus, Olt etc…..

    Not that you’d be able to get all those guys from each team but those are teams that have players Id shoot for if I were trading Cano

  20. Yankee Trader November 14th, 2012 at 9:20 am

    Blake-

    Cano to the Rangers along with David Phelps for Jurickson Profar and Alexi Ogando if the Rangers are able to give him an extension.

    Cano to the Rockies along with Nova or Phelps plus Gardner or Joba for Dexter Fowler and catcher Willin Rosario.

  21. blake November 14th, 2012 at 9:21 am

    @Giancarlo818: Alright, I’m pissed off!!! Plain & Simple

  22. austinmac November 14th, 2012 at 9:22 am

    Is any reporter ever going to ask Hal or Brian how the heck they will compete without the ability to re-sign your own players or acquire players with expensive or multi year contracts?

    I would then like them to be asked if they expect a significant income decline next year and thereafter?

  23. Yankee Trader November 14th, 2012 at 9:22 am

    Sorry but I have to go.

    I’ll check the threads later.

  24. blake November 14th, 2012 at 9:22 am

    “Cano to the Rangers along with David Phelps for Jurickson Profar and Alexi Ogando if the Rangers are able to give him an extension.”

    They aren’t trading profar

  25. Cashmoney November 14th, 2012 at 9:23 am

    signing AP and Kuroda becomes far less important if the Yankee entertains the idea of trading both Cano and Granderson. AP and K are all about 13, one might argue this would give NY leverage in terms of trading either under assumption that NY will be competitive with that quartet. The decision comes down to draft picks vs what you can get for Cano in terms of prospect or prospects. it would be in Yanks best interest to find out what Cano wants asap and decide accordingly. as many here have suggested, a ten year and north of 200 mil deal is something i would shy away from. While i think there be plenty of suitor for Cano, the bottom does not change a bit, which is, i think there will be only limited team who would entertain the idea of such mega deal. I would like to think Cano would garner something better than a 1st round pick if you flip him. The question really comes down to when is the best time to trade him if NYY decided if a line will be drawn in terms of length.

  26. PacoDooley November 14th, 2012 at 9:23 am

    I said this earlier, but it is worth repeating. The situation in Florida is really worse than it even appears. They signed a bunch of decent players, but back-loaded the contracts. So they dumped a lot more in salary than it even appears if you go by the total contract size. This also means that they were even sleazier than it appears when it comes to the show of putting a good team on the field. Their payroll for the single season that they carried these players was much lower than the value based on the annualized value, so they appeared to spend more than they really did (since baseball uses the annualized value when evaluating team payroll).

  27. BIG AL November 14th, 2012 at 9:24 am

    It’s so sad. The poor, poor Yankees have no money to spend, while their major competition has tons of money and are ready to spend it to improve their team.

    The next thing we’ll hear is Hal making an announcement the team regrets having to increase the cost of seats at YS, parking will now be $75, the meals will double, and the YES network will be charging an extra $5 to those that carry their programming.

    I agree, its so sad to watch a once great and powerful franchise on its knees, and about to become irrelevant in the world of MLB.

    Let us pray ……

  28. pat November 14th, 2012 at 9:24 am

    – is there any chance Rodriguez would waive his no-trade protection to play for a team that’s in the process of a massive rebuilding effort?

    It would have to be a gentlemens agreement and not sure anyon should trust Loria but……..If Loria would like to sell him the team or a significant part of it in 4 years I bet he would. Loria paid $158 million for the team in 2002 and it is now valued at $450 million. Heyman is reporting Loria is “under water” financially with the team. Alex could defer just the portion of the salary that the Marlins would be responsible for and apply it toward a future buy in.

    It might make more sense for Alex and Loria than it does for the Yankees to pay 80% of Alex’s salary for him to play somewhere else from both a business and a baseball perspective.

  29. Shame Spencer November 14th, 2012 at 9:24 am

    Thanks blake.

    I’ve been trying to figure out how to trade with the Nats for 2 seasons now. I honestly think you could work a deal with them for either Cano or Tex.

    And please don’t tell me Tex has a no trade. I’m well aware and don’t care. If the Yanks put him on the block, he’ll go.

  30. blake November 14th, 2012 at 9:25 am

    I just think its be very hard to get fair value for Cano and trading him would virtually kill their 2013 chances…..

  31. yanks61 November 14th, 2012 at 9:25 am

    Yankee Trader November 14th, 2012 at 8:40 am
    “OK. It’s time for the Yankees to get Kuroda and Rivera on board, “signed, sealed, delivered,” they’re ours this week.

    Get an answer from Pettitte and figure out who your primary catcher is.

    Then Cashman start fielding offers for Granderson and Cano.”

    In a nutshell, THIS!

    At least until the Yanks are finally sold.

    I just got back from being away for a couple of weeks (though periodically keeping up with posts here) and ran right into the Big Trade, which brings up what so many of you were talking about last night.

    I lived through the first Yankees sale back in the 60′s and, as we all know, it was not very pretty. Topping and Webb had pretty much done the same things that the Stein boys are doing now.

    I worked for 25 years for a large American company which had a big presence in Europe. One day we got the message that, with increased competition, we all had to tighten our belts and bring costs down in every area of our activities. We saw expenses for valuable product lines go down dramatically with, of course, a subsequent loss of quality. The business, though not many realized at the time, was cutting costs at near draconian levels and naturally was sold once it profits/expense balance was at its most favorable (as an aside, that is not applicable to the Yankees discussion, lots of good, long time employees lost their jobs – both before and after the sale.) But the owners reaped a huge payday and walked away richer than ever. Interestingly enough, this very big company that I’m talking about was mostly family owned and it was the grandchildren of the founder that gave the business up and took in enormous profits.

    As so many others have noted already, this is looking very much as though the Yankees are following the very same pattern. If that is indeed the case, then we can only hope that a Mark Cuban buys the club and not a CBS.

  32. Chip November 14th, 2012 at 9:26 am

    blake November 14th, 2012 at 9:22 am

    “Cano to the Rangers along with David Phelps for Jurickson Profar and Alexi Ogando if the Rangers are able to give him an extension.”

    They aren’t trading profar
    —————

    And why would the Rangers trade for Cano when they have Ian Kinsler?

  33. AAA November 14th, 2012 at 9:26 am

    Tigers: Castellanos , Rondon
    Nats: Rendon, Morse, Jordon Zimmerman
    Dbacks: Upton, Bauer, Skaggs
    Rangers: Martin, Andrus, Olt etc…..

    ================================

    I think the Yankees are probably a year too late for these kinds of deal. It’s ONE year of Cano. He’s one of the best handful of players in the game, but I don’t see teams (especially the non competitive Dbacks) doling out youth at reasonable cost for one year of a great player. Were it TWO years of Cano, then I think it’s a totally different story.

  34. blake November 14th, 2012 at 9:26 am

    Cano and Nova for Jordon Zimmeman, Anthony Rendon and Micheal morse……then sign Josh Hamilton

  35. blake November 14th, 2012 at 9:27 am

    “And why would the Rangers trade for Cano when they have Ian Kinsler?”

    Move Kinsler to LF

  36. blake November 14th, 2012 at 9:29 am

    “I think the Yankees are probably a year too late for these kinds of deal. It’s ONE year of Cano. He’s one of the best handful of players in the game, but I don’t see teams (especially the non competitive Dbacks) doling out youth at reasonable cost for one year of a great player. Were it TWO years of Cano, then I think it’s a totally different story.”

    You might be right…..I think the Tigers want to win a title so bad that they might do it….but in general as I’ve said I think it would be very hard to make a deal for Cano where you get enough back.

    So they either need to plan to pay him 200 million dollars or plan for life without him after 2013

  37. Chip November 14th, 2012 at 9:29 am

    blake November 14th, 2012 at 9:25 am

    I just think its be very hard to get fair value for Cano and trading him would virtually kill their 2013 chances…..
    ————-

    True – but signing him long term could do more to hurt them in the future. It’s a tough call; there’s merit to either side.

    In the end, I think if you’re going to sign Cano then you have to dump the $189 mandate because of too much dying money on the payroll (Alex, Jeter) and giving big money to Cano while those contracts are still in play would hamstring you too much to fill other holes.

    If, on the other hand, you’re intent on $189 then I think you deal Cano for young assets that you’re willing to play.

  38. Chip November 14th, 2012 at 9:30 am

    blake November 14th, 2012 at 9:26 am

    Cano and Nova for Jordon Zimmeman, Anthony Rendon and Micheal morse……then sign Josh Hamilton
    ——————

    I have no problem with this – and if I can get them to include Wilson Ramos I’m fine with that too.

  39. Shame Spencer November 14th, 2012 at 9:31 am

    I still don’t understand how the franchise is under water…. can anyone shed light for me?

    They got tax payer money to help build the stadium and just washed their hands of hundreds of millions of dollars worth of contracts.

    JF said they have less than $25 mil on the payroll for 2014!!

    What am I missing, because I’m sure there’s something.

  40. BIG AL November 14th, 2012 at 9:32 am

    Later folks – Y’all have a great day!

  41. blake November 14th, 2012 at 9:32 am

    I bet if you offer Dombrowski Cano for Castellanos+ them he’d do it……fielder, Cabrera, cano would be too enticing and their owner wants a WS now

  42. blake November 14th, 2012 at 9:34 am

    The Yanks could then either keep Castellanos and put him at 3B or flip him to Arizona for Upton

  43. Chip November 14th, 2012 at 9:38 am

    Shame Spencer November 14th, 2012 at 9:31 am

    I still don’t understand how the franchise is under water…. can anyone shed light for me?

    They got tax payer money to help build the stadium and just washed their hands of hundreds of millions of dollars worth of contracts.

    JF said they have less than $25 mil on the payroll for 2014!!

    What am I missing, because I’m sure there’s something.
    ———————-

    The Yankees aren’t under water. The new CBA will penalize them some $50 million if they are above $189 million in payroll. The Yankees could afford it, but what they can’t (or won’t) do is pay that and also pay for additional payroll commitments. In other words – it would be one thing to pay 3 players $50 mil, but it is something else entirely to pay 3 players $50 mil and have to pay the tax on top of that.

    Think of it this way, you want to buy a car; car 1 costs $50k but you also have to pay a dollar for dollar tax on the car bringing the total cost of the car to $100k. On the other hand, you could spend $20k on car 2 and save $50k that would have gone to someone else. Which would you do?

  44. pat November 14th, 2012 at 9:42 am

    “I still don’t understand how the franchise is under water…. can anyone shed light for me?”

    The money is there and going somewhere just not back into the team.

  45. PacoDooley November 14th, 2012 at 9:47 am

    The only real light at the end of the tunnel is the possibility that they use the rebate from the luxury tax and the reduced tax rate as opportunities to spend some money. The problem is that the 2014 salary bottleneck is going to lop off some serious talent if it means no to Cano and at least one other critical piece of their puzzle. A down year is one thing, but if that down year also means that you had to lose a lot of talent, then you are damaging the future as well.

    At the very minimum you have to assume that they may get two extra supplemental picks this year and at least another two next year if Cano and Granderson walk after receiving qualifying offers. So the bright side of the spending limit could be a decent talent pool in the low minors.

  46. Chip November 14th, 2012 at 9:48 am

    Now that he’s decided to play in 2013 – should the Yankees sign Giambi as a cheap bench/LH DH option?

    He and Ibanez are about the same age and I think if Jason had the same at bats that Raul got last year he would have produced similar results but with a better on base percentage. The only difference really is that Giambi can’t play the field at all whereas Ibanez just shouldn’t play the field.

  47. Jerkface November 14th, 2012 at 9:55 am

    Think of it this way, you want to buy a car; car 1 costs $50k but you also have to pay a dollar for dollar tax on the car bringing the total cost of the car to $100k. On the other hand, you could spend $20k on car 2 and save $50k that would have gone to someone else. Which would you do?

    Except in this scenario you’re a race car driver and the 50k car is faster. So obviously the Yankees should buy car #1, because they can afford it. Shame was talking about the Marlins being underwater though.

  48. RadioKev November 14th, 2012 at 10:00 am

    I can’t wait to read this. Nate Silver laying the MVP smackdown.

    http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.n.....um=twitter

  49. blake November 14th, 2012 at 10:01 am

    Re: Cano

    I think the Yankees have 3 acceptable options to try

    1) attempt to sign him this winter to an extension that would be a discount based on what he’d get as a FA after 2013. This would be in the 6/120 range.
    2) if option 1 isn’t an option then you could trade him to the highest bidder now
    3) or you can plan to let him walk after 2013 and position yourself now to survive that…..

    What the Yankees can’t do IMO is just sit around and wait until after 2013 to do something…..because barring injury Boras and other teams will drive Cano’s market upwards of 200 million and by then you’re stuck either paying it or losing him for nothing.

  50. Chip November 14th, 2012 at 10:02 am

    Jerkface November 14th, 2012 at 9:55 am

    Shame was talking about the Marlins being underwater though.
    ———-

    My mistake…they aren’t underwater either. Their owner is just a swindler and charlatan who doesn’t care one bit about winning a championship or the fans.

  51. Chip November 14th, 2012 at 10:04 am

    blake November 14th, 2012 at 10:01 am

    Re: Cano

    I think the Yankees have 3 acceptable options to try

    1) attempt to sign him this winter to an extension that would be a discount based on what he’d get as a FA after 2013. This would be in the 6/120 range.
    2) if option 1 isn’t an option then you could trade him to the highest bidder now
    3) or you can plan to let him walk after 2013 and position yourself now to survive that…..

    What the Yankees can’t do IMO is just sit around and wait until after 2013 to do something…..because barring injury Boras and other teams will drive Cano’s market upwards of 200 million and by then you’re stuck either paying it or losing him for nothing.
    —————

    I think that the worst case scenario is the one that’s most likely to happen. The Yankees will wait, and Cano will get his 8yr contract at $24m/year from the Yankees.

  52. Cashmoney November 14th, 2012 at 10:06 am

    rebuilding is the best course of action if the Yanks are indeed adhering to their budgetary constraints. It likely would last 1-3 years. things like expanding your scouting and development dept and getting a top notch statistician would further along the process accruing talents. creating an environment where divergent philosophy and creative ideas are encourage and are valued.
    the flip side of being mediocre and plain sucktitude is higher drafting slot and slightly more allot money under the new cba. but if this organization is destined to thrive under this brave new world, the inflow premium talents is a must. one would ideally think after the punitive monetary years are over, yankees would revert back to spending way to augment the talents amassed in those years and come out on the rosier side and be contending for another stretch of 10-15 years. Now that’s the ideal scenario i like to see the Yanks execute.

  53. blake November 14th, 2012 at 10:08 am

    “I think that the worst case scenario is the one that’s most likely to happen. The Yankees will wait, and Cano will get his 8yr contract at $24m/year from the Yankees.”

    I agree and if they continue to operate as they have then it’ll be a disaster….a contract like that will extend into the next CBA and history shows that it’s likely to be even less kind to the yankees

  54. 86w183 November 14th, 2012 at 10:12 am

    Loria is a scam artist. He tells Miami he can’t “compete” without a stadium. He gets Hundred$ of million$ ox taxpayer $$$ to build one and then guts the team completely.

    He’ll turn an amazing profit this year….

    I sorta fell bad for Reyes and Buerhle who chose to play in South Florida only to get shipped tp Canada, a place they probably never would have signed with. For Reyes it’s particularly significant because he now has to play on a run which won’t help his longevity one bit.

  55. Duh Innings II November 14th, 2012 at 10:12 am

    Four years at $20M for Cano after 2013.

    History shows HALL OF FAME secondbasemen decline after age 33 (Cano turns 31 next November 22.)

    Joe Morgan, Ryne Sandberg, Roberto Alomar, Bill Mazerowski, Rod Carew (Carew was still a .300+ hitter but played far fewer games after age 33 than he did before.)

    Cano is not a Hall Of Famer yet and there’s no guarantee he will be despite eight overall solid seasons, so we have to assume he will decline after age 33 as well, hence why I say re-sign him through age 35 only.

    The Yanks should sign Jeff Keppinger for two years, make him the 3B, move A-Rod to DH. This way if Cano signs elsewhere after 2013, the Yanks could get a new 2B or move Keppinger there and get a new 3B. And who’s to say the Yanks couldn’t get a new SS if Jeter moved to 2B or 3B (my guess 2B)?

  56. DONNYBROOK November 14th, 2012 at 10:12 am

    Boy, did K Towers come off looking like a Rube. He takes on the Bell contract, and got None of the goodies that Toronto was awarded for doing likewise. A fire sale going on right under his nose, and he ends up with a player that is trying to reinvent himself, And a Big contract to boot.
    Toronto continues to get whip-sawed between going-for-it, and building for a sustained future. I thought they hadda plan when they dumped the contracts of Wells and Rios, but here they go again with this trade for Long Term, Big Money, BACK LOADED, contracted players. The “Fool me once ……”, doctrine applies here.

  57. Cashmoney November 14th, 2012 at 10:14 am

    blake, the perfect storm would be enduring arod, tex and cano’s decline that coincide in the next four years and have one dollar to spend on Joe from softball team. more likely scenario is Cano starting to decline in last year of tex’s contract. either way, with so much tie into so few, yanks won’t a championship caliber team unless somehow magically you have a trout and harper appear on this team, which won’t be likely.

  58. 86w183 November 14th, 2012 at 10:16 am

    I’m sorry but I have trouble finding a team that will give Cano a $ 200 M contract in the winter of 2013-14. $ 100 M + for sure, but not $ 200 M +.

    To me there is mounting evidence that MLB teams are much more cognizant of the risks of guaranteeing big $$$ to players into their late 30s/40s.

  59. Cashmoney November 14th, 2012 at 10:17 am

    Is Danny Tartabull available?

  60. Duh Innings II November 14th, 2012 at 10:17 am

    Cano could easily fetch three or four top prospects, but he has to be wanted by a “win now” team from the NL as you don’t want to trade him to a team the Yanks might see in the 2013 postseason moreover AL postseasons to come.

    A-Rod and $80M to Seattle for Brendan Ryan who becomes the insurance SS for 2013 and 2014 in case Jeter doesn’t re-sign or the Yankees 2014 SS if Jeter moves to 2B or 3B.

  61. 4 NYY November 14th, 2012 at 10:21 am

    Alex is now a puzzle. Can he put it back together ? We have a few puzzles beyond him that will also be difficult.

    $ 189 Million puzzle pieces are set in stone.

  62. AAA November 14th, 2012 at 10:21 am

    Cano could easily fetch three or four top prospects,

    ================================

    No, he most likely cannot.

  63. Cashmoney November 14th, 2012 at 10:22 am

    86, I agree on cano’s commanding power. I think you got lot smart ppl in baseball these day, the market for 31 year old 2b looking 200 mil payday will be very very limited. I say flip him and get something better than a volatile 1st around pick.

  64. Cashmoney November 14th, 2012 at 10:31 am

    I think you may be able to pry loose a team’s top 3 prospect from a desperate team… that’s not out of realm of possibilities. but most team would be reluctant to do so for what amount to one year rental. vigilance is the price of a good prospect i suppose.

  65. Chip November 14th, 2012 at 10:36 am

    Incidentally – I’m adding some names to my list of players I could completely see the Yankees being interested in:

    Giambi – Reasons stated above

    Carl Pavano – Brian tried to do a sign and trade for him when he was last a FA with the Twins. No doubt in my mind that if Kuroda signs elsewhere (or even if he doesn’t) Brian will try to ink him to a 1 year Freddy Garcia-ish contract.

    Others:
    Pronk
    Ibanez
    Chavez
    Carlos Lee
    Sizemore
    Kelly Shoppach
    Rod Barajas
    Aubrey Huff
    Ty Wiggington
    Kelly Johnson
    Adam Kennedy
    Ronny Cedeno
    Placido Polanco
    Juan Rivera
    Millwood
    Dustin Mosely

  66. DONNYBROOK November 14th, 2012 at 10:39 am

    There are numerous owners that are lusting for an Immediate World Championship. That guy that sells the Absolutely Horrible Pizzas in Detroit is one, and that Little Lord Fauntleroy over in Boston is another. Should the Yanks wantta deal Cano, they could get back plenty. I always refer back to what SF coughed up for Beltran at the trade deadline. A full season of Cano’s production on both sides of the ball would reap plenty.

  67. Jerkface November 14th, 2012 at 10:43 am

    To me there is mounting evidence that MLB teams are much more cognizant of the risks of guaranteeing big $$$ to players into their late 30s/40s.

    2 Players just got huge deals literally last offseason

  68. blake November 14th, 2012 at 10:44 am

    “To me there is mounting evidence that MLB teams are much more cognizant of the risks of guaranteeing big $$$ to players into their late 30s/40s.”

    Where is this evidence? It certainly wasn’t the case last winter….. The Dodgers alone would drive Cano’s price sky high

  69. blake November 14th, 2012 at 10:46 am

    “2 Players just got huge deals literally last offseason”

    3 ….Votto, Prince, Pujols all got 200 million

  70. blake November 14th, 2012 at 10:47 am

    I think there will be so many teams in on Cano and given the history Boras has with top players I can’t see Cano getting less than 200 million as a FA…..some team will over pay for him

  71. DONNYBROOK November 14th, 2012 at 10:48 am

    I agree. “Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.”
    I shudder thinking about Reyes on that Phoney Baloney surface in Toronto. If your Fantasy League has 3B’s assa scoring category, you gotta have Reyes. Yea, I know. He’s gotta be in the lineup to do anything.

  72. austinmac November 14th, 2012 at 10:51 am

    Cash,

    I remember when Tartabull signed a multi year contract for about $20 million, and he then promptly bought a $25 million house in LA. I’m taking a wild guess he no longer has the house.

  73. blake November 14th, 2012 at 10:52 am

    Detroit is the one team that might pony up big in a trade for Cano…..they really want to win a title and a Fielder, Cabrera, Cano middle of the order with Ajax, VMart, etc would be incredibly tough…..

    Don’t forget they just traded their #1 pitching prospect for Omar infante and 3 months of Anibal Sanchez

  74. DONNYBROOK November 14th, 2012 at 10:54 am

    That Detroit dude has gotta expiration date that is rapidly approaching. He wants to win NOW.

  75. blake November 14th, 2012 at 10:55 am

    If the Yankees don’t think they can or want to retain Cano after 2013 then Cashman should call up Dombrowski and say listen ill give you cano and the keys to an unreal team but its gonna hurt……what you think? Castellanos, Rondon + more. How bad do you want a title dave

  76. MTU November 14th, 2012 at 10:56 am

    Can’t see why any of you expect creativity out of the Yankees.

    It’s not generally their style.

    I was actually somewhat shocked when the dumped AJ.

    ;)

  77. RMS November 14th, 2012 at 10:58 am

    Why would any team trade for Cano? He wants a big contract and will go free agent.

  78. blake November 14th, 2012 at 10:58 am

    “Can’t see why any of you expect creativity out of the Yankees.”

    Hey man why bust our bubble…..we know they aren’t gonna do anything and that Cano will sign his 9/218 contract sometime next winter….. ;)

  79. Cashmoney November 14th, 2012 at 10:59 am

    mac, as a fledgling Yankee fan at the time, i was quite content to see the Yanks finally able to reel in a big FA ticket… and very excited to see a team that has a possibility to break even the following year. Now, i scoff the notion of merely making the playoff. Progress!

  80. jacksquat November 14th, 2012 at 10:59 am

    Alex Rodriguez will not be traded this winter
    Dumping salary is much easier in theory than in practice, and the Yankees third baseman has the worst contract in sports. Finding a team to take him would be remarkable, and getting anything in return might be even more difficult. The Marlins salary dump showed just how difficult it is to move bad contracts: To make the deal work and get value in return, Miami had to include an in-his-prime ace, which is the most valuable commodity in the sport

    It’s actually pretty interesting.

    The Jays took on Reyes, who is at least 5/96. The took on Buehrle, who has 3/48 left. They took Buck, who sucks, for 1/6. This, in part, to get Josh Johnson for *one* year at 13.75. They also sent some good/decent prospects to Miami.

    Buehrle is probably overpaid a little, Reyes is probably overpaid quite a bit.

    So Maybe it’s not so far fetched to use Cano to dump Arod.

    It looks to me that the Jays could still use a 2B and DH.

    Just kidding, but the Dodgers are a possibility.

  81. DONNYBROOK November 14th, 2012 at 11:00 am

    You look at Hal, and you can understand why a different mental approach takes a while. The guy drives a Mercedes with an 8 track in it.

  82. blake November 14th, 2012 at 11:02 am

    RMS says:
    November 14, 2012 at 10:58 am
    Why would any team trade for Cano? He wants a big contract and will go free agent.

    To win the World Series ….same reason teams with offer prospects to rent pitchers for 3 months at the deadline

  83. MTU November 14th, 2012 at 11:02 am

    I don’t agree one bit with Chad’s assertion that it is going to take time to assess the effects of this big trade.

    The effects are immediate and obvious. And the impact is already being felt IMO. It puts everyone in the AL East on notice.

    If those guys stay healthy it pushes the Jays right to the front of the line for a title.

    It was a bold move. Don’t see any mystery there.

    ;)

  84. MTU November 14th, 2012 at 11:05 am

    Blake-

    Sorry partner.

    Carry on with “Team Denial”.

    Remember. There’s always that Island we spoke about if you get weary.

    ;)

  85. MTU November 14th, 2012 at 11:07 am

    I’m trying the reverse Jinx on Hal and Cashman.

    Maybe it will work.

    :)

  86. Cashmoney November 14th, 2012 at 11:08 am

    MTU, the trade has raise the NYY alarm level to defcon 2. Cash has been given direct order to immediately board a bluejet airway (economy seating) to start a convo with ibanez. look, it’s a process.

  87. DONNYBROOK November 14th, 2012 at 11:09 am

    A Mgr play a Big part in getting a team that has NOT been a factor inna Long time, over the hump. I reserve judgement till I see what kinda contribution Toronto gets in that area.

  88. MTU November 14th, 2012 at 11:09 am

    Cash-

    It’s so important he’ll probably rappell in to see him.

    ;)

  89. austinmac November 14th, 2012 at 11:10 am

    MTU,

    Save me a place on the island. I can pontificate on useless legal issues while Blake takes care of our teeth. You can trudge around the island gathering tropical fruit.

    Dang, can we go now?

  90. tomingeorgia November 14th, 2012 at 11:12 am

    MTU,
    Can I be the wine and spirits director on the island?

  91. DONNYBROOK November 14th, 2012 at 11:12 am

    So Toronto gets Reyes and Johnson, and the Yanks answer with Ibanez? Yea, right.

  92. MTU November 14th, 2012 at 11:13 am

    Mac-

    I’m already there.

    I’m just waiting for company.

    No taxes. Living off the bounty of the land. It’s a simple life but a good one IMO.

    :)

  93. austinmac November 14th, 2012 at 11:13 am

    It matters not to the Yankees what anyone else does. Cashman is instructed to follow the process to significant payroll reduction. Winning is very secondary. Competing is secondary? Appearing to compete is the goal.

  94. Cashmoney November 14th, 2012 at 11:13 am

    MTU, will there be ladies on the island?

  95. DONNYBROOK November 14th, 2012 at 11:13 am

    - Tommy -
    You can play Tatoo to Blake’s “Mr Roarke”

  96. MTU November 14th, 2012 at 11:14 am

    Cash-

    Need you ask ?

    ;)

  97. 86w183 November 14th, 2012 at 11:14 am

    The evidence is that there’s no buzz about the top free agents this year. The big deals of last seemingly (in the cases of Votto and Fielder) came without real financial competition… and Pujols is the greatest hitter of this generation.

    I just don’t see it for Cano he’s not the big-time power guy that usually gets a mega deal and he’s gonna be 31 if/when he hits the open market.

    Four players have gotten $ 200 M contracts. FOUR. EVER.

    Cano will not be the fifth in my not so humble opinion

  98. austinmac November 14th, 2012 at 11:15 am

    Tom,

    I believe you are well qualified for your island position and will use my influence.

  99. Cashmoney November 14th, 2012 at 11:15 am

    sorry, i knew that was rhetorical… sorry for even doubting such amenities….

  100. Jerkface November 14th, 2012 at 11:16 am

    Cano will not be the fifth in my not so humble opinion

    Does it matter when the end result is going to be 7 or 8 years 22+ million?

  101. Jerkface November 14th, 2012 at 11:16 am

    The evidence is that there’s no buzz about the top free agents this year.

    Hamilton has significant baggage and he will still probably pull a huge deal. There is buzz that Greinke is going to get the richest contract for a RHP ever.

  102. MTU November 14th, 2012 at 11:17 am

    Tom-

    You are definitely in.

    You’re a charter member.

    :)

  103. luis November 14th, 2012 at 11:17 am

    Good morning guys,

    I woke up to this Blue Jays news. They just got alot better overnight. We have a serious contender on our hands here, and AA is showing what a bold GM he is. The Yankees are handcuffed by their long term contracts and an aging roster. There is very little they can do, most of what they can do is fairly dangerous or dumb (Trading the farm for a player to fill the seats of the stadium). I think the time for a rebuilding has come. I rather endure a couple of bad seasons than a decade of irrelevance, so I would do the folowing:

    1) Trade present for future ( Cano, Granderson, even Hughes for prospects )
    2) Beef up scouting both domestic and abroad also MiLB coaching.
    3) Negotiate an early retirement of Arod
    4) Convince Tex to wave his NTC, since we won’t be competing any time soon
    5) Go young…. Adams at third, Nunez at short and Romine at C with a Olivo type along with him.
    6) Say aloha to Martin
    7) Move up Cashman from GM, put Oppenheimer there and bring a small cap AGM who has experience in managing a budget

    8) Last but not least….If they are going to sell the club, do it to someone that has the drive and ambition that George had…Protect the legacy.

  104. blake November 14th, 2012 at 11:17 am

    Even if Cano doesn’t get 200 million….it’ll be close

  105. G. Love November 14th, 2012 at 11:18 am

    I really thought it was wonderful to read in the papers this morning that Tex doesn’t care what he hits as long as he gets his 30HR and 100 RBI.

    Real franchise player. He really gets it.

  106. MTU November 14th, 2012 at 11:19 am

    You really have to like 70 degree temperatures all yr. round , deserted white sand beaches, rum, and endless views of the Caribbean.

    If you’re cool with those sorts of sacrifices you’re a candidate for the Island.

    :)

  107. tomingeorgia November 14th, 2012 at 11:20 am

    MTU,
    I assume the is a free port. We will do very well!

  108. blake November 14th, 2012 at 11:21 am

    “I really thought it was wonderful to read in the papers this morning that Tex doesn’t care what he hits as long as he gets his 30HR and 100 RBI”

    Does he care what he hits if he hits 24 HR and 84 RBI?

  109. tomingeorgia November 14th, 2012 at 11:21 am

    “island”

  110. MTU November 14th, 2012 at 11:21 am

    Tom-

    It’s wide open.

    ;)

  111. luis November 14th, 2012 at 11:22 am

    New thread :arrow:

  112. MTU November 14th, 2012 at 11:22 am

    New thread —->

  113. DONNYBROOK November 14th, 2012 at 11:22 am

    I agree with TEX. You omitted his mention of a Gold Glove. You also gotta factor in his dive into 1B in Balt. I’ll take a team of TEX type players Anyday.

  114. MTU November 14th, 2012 at 11:23 am

    Luis-

    You’re one fast Hombre.

    Remind to never mess with you.

    :)

  115. tomingeorgia November 14th, 2012 at 11:23 am

    Are there zombies around? If so, i would be glad to take the position of armorer, too.

  116. 86w183 November 14th, 2012 at 11:24 am

    Cano will not be the fifth in my not so humble opinion

    Does it matter when the end result is going to be 7 or 8 years 22+ million?

    **********************************************************************

    It does when the debate/discussion is on whether or not he gets a $ 200 M contract. Several say he will, and I say he won’t.

    Thhhhats all folks! Have a day.

  117. MTU November 14th, 2012 at 11:25 am

    Tom-

    There is some unexploded ordinance around. Would you volunteer to remove that ? Want that job ?

    Otherwise it’s the land of milk and honey.

    Just bring a bucket and we’ll get you all the fruit you can eat for free.

    :)

  118. mick November 14th, 2012 at 11:27 am

    cgrand14 profile

    cgrand14 This morning is the first time I’ve ever had a lady taxi driver. Really surprised I haven’t had one before.
    ======================
    Wow!

    Curtis you are a dynamic dude.

    Trade him , if not for that tweet alone.

  119. luis November 14th, 2012 at 11:28 am

    MTU,

    You are the man!!

  120. Jerkface November 14th, 2012 at 11:28 am

    It does when the debate/discussion is on whether or not he gets a $ 200 M contract. Several say he will, and I say he won’t.

    Does it matter when the term is ‘upwards of 200′ not ’200+’? Or that Chip’s total is 192?
    Does any of what you are saying really make sense? So owners are now more cognizant that they only give out 180 million dollar deals, not 200 million? Does that really make sense?

  121. Jerkface November 14th, 2012 at 11:31 am

    And anyways Votto Fielder and Pujols all got 200 mil, what does a lack of financial competition have to do with Votto & Fielder? Adding competition will only make the price higher. That they got 200 million without any shows that there is no more cognizance !

  122. mick November 14th, 2012 at 11:37 am

    blake November 14th, 2012 at 8:28 am

    What are the tax rates on your island?
    MTU November 14th, 2012 at 8:30 am

    We don’t have any.
    =================
    That’s what you get for living in the middle of nowhere.

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