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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Wednesday night links and notes: From bus riders to RailRiders

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Notes on Nov 14, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The Yankees Triple-A affiliate has a new name to go with its new stadium.

Introducing, the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre RailRiders.

The name and logo were announced at an unveiling ceremony earlier this evening. A name-the-team contest selected RailRiders ahead of other the finalists: Blast, Black Diamond Bears, Porcupines, Trolley Frogs and Fireflies. According to the team, Porcupines was another popular choice, and so the team mascot will be a porcupine.

That new mascot and logo will be with the team next season when it opens a new stadium, meaning the Triple-A guys won’t play an all-on-the-road schedule next year.

I’m sure very few of you were paying any attention to the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre team back when it was called the Red Barons and belonged to the Phillies organization, but for those of us who were paying attention back then, the new RailRiders uniforms are instantly recognizable as throwbacks to the Red Barons days. And that should be a pretty popular touch in Northeastern Pennsylvania where many local fans had a strong attachment to the old team.

“The RailRiders brand signifies our reenergized commitment to the community, not only with a new team name and logos, but our unwavering focus to provide the best in affordable, family fun entertainment,” team president Rob Crain said in a statement. “Our new identity also honors NEPA’s rich baseball history with the interlocking SWB mark. Plus, it highlights our strong partnership with the New York Yankees with navy caps and home pinstripes.”

I honestly did not care one bit which team name was chosen, but I do think the logo looks pretty cool.

• A quick reminder that I’ll be hosting a chat tomorrow at noon. Stop by if you can.

• Indications have been trending this way for a while, and today Torii Hunter agreed to a two-year deal with the Tigers. The contract is reportedly worth $13 million per year. It was reported last week that the Yankees were not willing to give Hunter a two-year contract, and it was reported today that the Yankees never made Hunter an actual offer at all.

• The Marlins are getting rid of bad contracts, and Erik Boland reports that the Yankees have some interest in not-very-good starting pitching Ricky Nolasco. Problems solved!

• Josh Norris noted today that, while talking on MLB Network radio, Nationals manager Davey Johnson said it’s possible a former Yankees prospect will be in Washington’s rotation next year: “I think Christian Garcia would look good in the starting rotation,” Johnson said. Garcia was highly touted with the Yankees, but he could never stay healthy and wound up finally getting to the big leagues as a Nationals reliever this season. Really, really nice guy. Even though he’s somewhere else, you should really root for that kid.

Brian Fuentes has decided to retire. Inevitably I’ll still get a “the Yankees should get Brian Fuentes!” email at some point this winter.

Associated Press photo of Hunter; I stole the RailRiders logo from my friends in Scranton

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178 Responses to “Wednesday night links and notes: From bus riders to RailRiders”

  1. fantasygame101 November 14th, 2012 at 9:30 pm

    clippard and garcia was once 2 of the best pitching prospect of the yankees. Garcia can not stay healthy (nothing new in the ynakees system) and clippard was being stubbornly tried to be a starter. Both now with the nationals and contributing.

  2. Bronx Jeers November 14th, 2012 at 9:36 pm

    Garcia’s pitched about 75 innings over the last 3 seasons.

    Nolasco donning pinstripes would be really, really funny.

  3. Duh Innings II November 14th, 2012 at 9:36 pm

    Cool name, but what “rail” is this team riding? There’s no commuter rail system anywhere close to SWB and is SWB even an Amtrak stop? LOL.

    I am really, REALLY pissed at the Yanks right now.

    Cashman are you blind as well as stupid?

    The Cubs just signed Scott Baker to a one-year $5.5M base plus $1.5M in incentives ($7M potential total) contract. This guy who is only 31 went 63-48 with a 4.15 ERA for Minnesota 2005-11. He would’ve been a nice #4 or solid #5 for the Yanks at a cost of only $1.5M more than the cost of 2012 Freddy Garcia and $1.25M more than the cost of the utterly useless Feliciano who cost the Yanks $4M salary plus a $250K buyout.

    Baker went 8-6 with a 3.14 ERA, 1.173 WHIP, and 123 SO in 134 2/3 IP for the 2012 Twins.

    Spare me “He pitched in a pitcher’s park.” Fifteen points shy of posting an ERA under 3 is impressive regardless of where you pitch. Tack on half a run to his ERA and he still posts an impressive 3.64 ERA.

    Sabathia/Hughes/Baker/Nova/TBD would’ve been the rotation for now. Sign Kuroda or Pettitte and it becomes Sabathia/Kuroda/Hughes/Baker/Nova or Sabathia/Hughes/Pettitte/Baker/Nova. Sign both and it becomes Sabathia/Kuroda/Hughes/Pettitte/Baker with Nova, Warren, Phelps, and perhaps Pineda as plenty of rotation insurance AND tradebait.

    Cashman you suck!

  4. Against All Odds November 14th, 2012 at 9:41 pm

    . I don’t get the negative attitudes either.

    ————-

    It just stems from the uncertainty that lies ahead. When the Yankees won in 09 I thought they were set up for another dynasty. Cano coming into his own, Hughes and Joba along with Drob, the Bs in the minors along with Jesus, Tex being a power bat in the lineup, Ajax as a future, CC leading the staff, etc but so much has changed. Guys have been mishandled, traded, injured, released or just simply declined. Can anyone say we are better off now than we were three yrs ago?

  5. austinmac November 14th, 2012 at 9:53 pm

    The first electric rail was apparently in Scranton.

    The reason for the negativity is players age and players leave, and all we see is the team does not want to extend more than one year contracts nor have they shown evidence of a willingness to adapt by trading the unsignable players.

    I foresee aged one year stop gaps. I would much prefer to see the kids bring enthusiasm and get a shot.

    Maybe they will prove me wrong. I hope so.

  6. Bronx Jeers November 14th, 2012 at 10:06 pm

    Generally speaking, animals that “ride the rails” don’t have favorable life experiences.

  7. Ys Guy November 14th, 2012 at 10:12 pm

    i cant decide if it reminds me of hobos or commmuters but neither would draw me to the ballpark…

  8. jacksquat November 14th, 2012 at 10:13 pm

    I think they should check on Ryan Hanigan (C) of Cincy and see if he might be available.

    And he would pair up well with Rob Brantley of Miami.

    Hanigan career .287/.408/.414 vs lhp

    Brantly .313/.396/.513 vs rhp 2012 (91 pa)

    You get the veteran Hanigan with good avg/obp/low k skills and good defense (40% cs career, 48% last year), and the young guy Brantly hitting lefthanded who looks promising. And it would be cheap, Hanigan is 2 mil in 2013 and arb eligible in 2014, Brantly of course is 500k. The Marlins might let Brantly go if the Yanks take all of Nolasco’s contract, perhaps a little money kicked in since the Marlins seem to need that. Heck, you could throw in Cervelli.

    This would be a good low cost option imo.

  9. Chip November 14th, 2012 at 10:22 pm

    I would not put Garcia in the rotation – he was dominant dominant out of the pen once he was moved there full time and couldn’t stay healthy in the rotation.

    As for Nolasco – if he doesn’t cost them anything good and you can maybe get the Marlins to include LoMo I would do the deal. Morrison has had some injury problems but he’s still got a ton of upside and the Yankees could use someone like him – maybe Eduardo Nunez and a lower end guy for the two of them then spin either Hughes or Nova in a deal and go with a rotation of CC, (hopefully Kuroda), Andy, Nolasco and either Hughes or Nova.

  10. Ys Guy November 14th, 2012 at 10:26 pm

    the marlins debacle spells the eventual end of the tampa bay rays.
    no public money will be put into a stadium for them in the sunshine state.

  11. blake November 14th, 2012 at 10:28 pm

    Ys Guy says:
    November 14, 2012 at 10:26 pm
    the marlins debacle spells the eventual end of the tampa bay rays.
    no public money will be put into a stadium for them in the sunshine state.

    Certainly seems that way….move them to Charlotte

  12. yankeefeminista November 14th, 2012 at 10:28 pm

    The “Scorpion” Yanks are raking again; Heathcott 3/4 double, Adams 1/2 triple, Dellin 0 walks/14 pitches-12 strikes: http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/.....n_scowin_1

    Speaking of names, Waterfront Park (Trenton) has been renamed Arm and Hammer Park. Sad.

    As for Garcia, with that kind of stuff, of course you try him as a SP; if he can’t stay healthy, you can always put him back in the BP.

    Congrats to Price. Either he or Verlander would have been worthy.

  13. yankeefeminista November 14th, 2012 at 10:29 pm

    Move the Rays to NJ. :)

  14. blake November 14th, 2012 at 10:31 pm

    Hearhcott might win the mvp

  15. Ys Guy November 14th, 2012 at 10:35 pm

    actually, im ok with arm & hammer park as they are a princeton company going back before the civil war.
    plus i like the logo.

  16. Ys Guy November 14th, 2012 at 10:40 pm

    move the rays to miami and move the marlins to hartford or sprinfield, ma.

  17. luis November 14th, 2012 at 10:48 pm

    Odds,

    That comment of yours almost sounded like a political ad. ;)

    Seriously though, very good post and very on point.

    Mac,

    We should rebuild and cut the BS.

  18. yankeefeminista November 14th, 2012 at 10:49 pm

    I’m aware of the Princeton connection and Church and Dwight’s dedication to Thunder baseball, but I still prefer the name Waterfront Park to Arm and Hammer.

  19. luis November 14th, 2012 at 10:52 pm

    Good evening YF,

    How are you feeling? Are those ankles healing well?. I like Waterfront park better too.

  20. G. Love November 14th, 2012 at 10:52 pm

    I keep seeing all these references to the “negative attitude” by fans in here and I’m curious, what exactly is there to be excited & happy about at the moment?

    Our front office has come out and said they won’t sign and spend in any way that affects their goal of lowering the payroll next year. Money is now more important than winning and fielding the best club.

    Our $23 million “cornerstone” 1b came out and said he doesn’t care what he hits as long he gets to 30HR and 100RBI showing he has no self awareness that his offensive game is limited to a batting practice approach.

    Our 2b who is the best in the league may not be here past this year because the team doesn’t want to give out big contracts anymore.

    Our captain and legend at SS broke his ankle and no one knows how he’ll recover from that.

    Our 3b is a shell of the player he once was and makes 27.5 million for the next 6 years into his early 40′s while not being able to hit RHP.

    We have no RF.

    Our CF is another low average K machine who might get us 40HR with a .230 avg.

    Our LF can’t stay healthy.

    We have no C.

    After CC, our rotation is Hughes, Nova and Phelps.

    We have no closer until/unless Mo signs.

    Other than that, everything is just ducky in Yankee land.

    Let’s all hug! Shall we?

  21. yankeefeminista November 14th, 2012 at 10:54 pm

    “We should rebuild and cut the BS.”

    Can you be more succinct, Luis? :)

  22. yankeefeminista November 14th, 2012 at 10:57 pm

    Hi Luis, thanks, yes, healing up–I’m happy to say discarded the walking boot yesterday and into a much lighter lace up ankle brace. I cannot complain. How are you?

  23. tomingeorgia November 14th, 2012 at 10:58 pm

    G. Love,
    Last I looked, it’s 11/12/12. Nothing will happen that’s good for the Yanks, ever. Somebody really does need a hug, a kiss, and a “Sleep tight”.

  24. austinmac November 14th, 2012 at 10:59 pm

    Heathcott was third in average going into today. Not bad for a guy not in the all star game.

    Is today the last game?

  25. austinmac November 14th, 2012 at 11:05 pm

    Luis,

    There are two choices. Disregard the cap or rebuild with trades. The biggest disaster is a middle ground of waiting until contracts expire. I prefer the spending approach, but detest the current approach.

  26. yankeefeminista November 14th, 2012 at 11:06 pm

    “Is today the last game?”

    Tomorrow.

  27. luis November 14th, 2012 at 11:08 pm

    Tom,

    Good evening.. Happy veterans day.. I hope that you enjoyed your day.. To be honest, I don’t see much negativity on the blog. Sure, some of us aren’t very happy with the current situation of the club and some of us have been talking what should be done going forward, I find that fun. Anyway, glad that you still lurk around this parts.

  28. jacksquat November 14th, 2012 at 11:08 pm

    luis November 14th, 2012 at 10:48 pm

    We should rebuild and cut the BS.

    Define “rebuild”. We have expensive guys that we very likely can’t get rid of. CC, Arod, Tex, Jeter. Arod is not retiring. Those guys take up a lot of payroll, can you really rebuild? You mean a partial rebuild?

  29. Jerkface November 14th, 2012 at 11:11 pm

    This is why you don’t create a team name/logo by committee.

  30. Tar November 14th, 2012 at 11:12 pm

    I am not usually negative person about anything. But re: this team, this is the most negative I can remember being (no matter what the date) in a long time. This quote from CB last night that just about sums up my thoughts.

    “One of my concerns this off season is that Hal and Levine will force some stupid move trading a bunch of kids for some marginal trade to continue with the pretense that this is a well honed machine on the cusp of winning multiple world series.”
    The possibility for dumb is exceedingly high this off season because they know how difficult selling tickets for a visibly “sub-par”/boring team will be in the expensive sections.”

    Now who knows maybe the Front office will surprise us, but going through GLove’s list, it’s not looking to good at the moment.

  31. Jerkface November 14th, 2012 at 11:12 pm

    http://i.imgur.com/OmSoYm.png

    Stanton :twisted:

  32. UnKnown November 14th, 2012 at 11:14 pm

    Heathcott is a machine. Regularly getting multiple hits.

    I wonder if Drew Davison is embarrassed at all that this year for the first time it has been released what voters ballots looked like. Voting for Rodney as the Cy Young is pretty dumb.

    Also, I think Kuroda should’ve gotten votes over Harrison and Darvish. That stinks.

  33. Pat M. November 14th, 2012 at 11:16 pm

    Austinmac……I personally think you hit the issue right on the head regarding the middle ground mentality…….It’s time to define the then next 10 years by saying goodbye to the past starting now…….

  34. trisha - true pinstriped blue November 14th, 2012 at 11:16 pm

    Uh oh. I was working on my post and now see that in the meantime, there has been an influx of GRRR!!! posters.

    Best I can say is that we’re all entitled to our opinions. Here is mine.

    ________________________

    “I can’t sustain the negative attitude that seems to be required around here. Who knows what will happen? I surely don’t.”

    ;)

    ****************

    “It just stems from the uncertainty that lies ahead.”

    Against, please don’t think I’m picking on you because I’m not. I’m just playing off what you wrote, and I think it probably does describe a lot of posters, posters who are disgruntled because they don’t like the way things have been handled, disgruntled because they don’t see the Yanks making any moves, disgruntled for whatever reason.

    But in terms of the uncertainty, I say so blanking what! If you’re in a twist, I say get over yourselves. Can you only function if you know the end of the movie? Can you only function if you feel you have a guarantee that the movie is going to have a happy ending? This isn’t life and death. It’s baseball. Hurricane Sandy was life and death. Are you going to stop rooting for the team if they don’t appear to be competitive to you, if the Yankees don’t put any more money into the team? Are you going to gripe your way through another season because things didn’t go according to your plan? (these are all generic, certainly not directed at Against who merely was attempting to explain the negativity.)

    Uncertainty is part of life. Ask the 2011 Sux about uncertainty. I don’t remember a team being more touted to win the whole thing right out of the box than the 2011 Sux. How did that work out? So do you turn against the players who didn’t get the job done or do you blame the owners? The manager? The coaches? Everyone is always looking for someone to blame. How about life doesn’t always turn out the way we think it’s going to.

    Personally I can’t work up a lather about things over which I have no control. I have no control over what the Yankees will or will not do with their money. I do have control over whether or not I will support the team and whether or not I will set up parmeters which if they are not met, will spell the end to my following the team or rooting for them. We all have that kind of control. As long as the Yankees aren’t Loria’ing us, I’m content. I believe that they will do whatever they feel they can to put a competitive team on the field. You’re really dealing short of a deck if you don’t realize that there are no sure bets, no matter how good things may appear. One never knows when an Aaron Small is going to appear, nor does one know when a Tim Lincecum is going to disappear. That’s why they play the games.

    Short of that, I just can’t waste my time on an on-going pity party and doom and gloom sessions.

    *************

    And for whomever it was that noted that a host of other teams are spending and it appears the Yankees are not, oh well. We got fat and happy on endless years where the opposite was true. Guess you can’t always be king of the hill. What’s that old saying, don’t cry because it’s over smile because it happened?

    Isn’t the interlocking NY enough?

  35. Against All Odds November 14th, 2012 at 11:27 pm

    @ Luis it does sound like an ad now that I read it again lol. Thank you buddy.

  36. Benny Blanco November 14th, 2012 at 11:29 pm

    G.Love,

    You know what’s even more depressing? If and when Kuroda, Mo and Pettite sign. Jack Curry will will say on the yes network that the yankee fans have to understand that the front office just signed “free- agents.” Really?

  37. tomingeorgia November 14th, 2012 at 11:31 pm

    luis,
    I’m around most of the time, my friend, but there is very little I can say about slurs on the GM’s and owner’s character, without being thought of as judgmental myself. I’m not exactly lurking, and I like looking at the fantastical trade proposals here.

    That said, I’m not resigned to years of Yankee mediocracy. Been there, done that. The management of this team are not all Bozos, but dollars are dollars, pesos or Bolivars. If you were running the team, with P&L responsibility, what would you do? Second question: do you have any idea what they ARE going to do? I don’t.

  38. Pat M. November 14th, 2012 at 11:34 pm

    Tricia….I just had a scoop of Spumuni ice cream and then you appear…..I can only speak for myself of course, with that in mind I wish the Yanks Front Offfice would just change course and get focused on being a factor 5-10 years from now…..Hey they gave it a shot in attempting to grab another ring while Jeter / Rivera were still playing, but I do feel 2012 was their last real shot in doing this during this golden Jeter era…..

  39. luis November 14th, 2012 at 11:34 pm

    Mac,

    I understand where you are coming from… If I were them, I would go in to rebuilding mode… I don”t think we can spend our way out of this mess…Too many bad contracts to aging vets or early declining players… We are not one player away, but several players away… Then there is this little detail about our core that needs to be replaced… I would go to rebuild with trades and let those bad contracts come off the books… It will take a few years and probably some out of the box thinking, but it can be done. The problem with the current “denial” attitude is that it is delaying the inevitable, thus prolonging the downward period ahead. As I said before, they should come out, explain this very simple truth to the fan baseand display a comprehensive strategy to return to dominance.

    JS,

    For me rebuilding is trying to get out of this mess in the shortest time possible. This means trying to convince Tex to wave his NTC. Negotiate with Arod an early retirement in exchange of a stake on the ball club and why not, a position in the FO. This means trading Granderson, probably Cano if you can’t negotiate a reasonable contract going forward ( 7 years tops ). Jeter is off the books by 2014, so that leaves you only CC, which I think it should be fine.

    Also, it means going younger and with inexpensive players, mostly from the farm. I would give the shot to Adams at third, Nunez at short and a tandem of Romine/ Olivo type in the C position.Instead of playing Ichiro, I would see what I have in Mustelier/ Dickerson to play RF with Mesa/The Almonte brothers at triple A. I would put on the fast track those propspects than can be ready earlier ( Tyler, Heathcott,Williams).

    Invest heavily in scouting and MiLB coaching.

    This will enable the team a lot of payroll flexibility, keeping in mind that you need a homegrown core and you compliment it with FA signings or trades. If they go this route, we may be looking at a potentially championship team by 2015. Not taking in to account that our drafting position will improve, so we may have access to top quality talent in both the draft and the IFA with more money to spend on those.

  40. trisha - true pinstriped blue November 14th, 2012 at 11:34 pm

    And with that, I go back to watching North and South. I didn’t see it when it was a miniseries.

    I am not ducking out because I feel like there’s a minefield here. Seriously.

    So if there are any comments or questions directed to me based on my post, I will be happy to address them next time I’m on. If there are none, all the better.

    :)

    Night all.

  41. Tar November 14th, 2012 at 11:38 pm

    “Isn’t the interlocking NY enough?”

    Hi Trish :D

    I have always rooted for the team. I have not always liked the owners or front office. Right now I am not enamored with the owner or front office. And for me it’s not just that they are not spending money, it’s the apparent lack of a coherent strategy that is really frustrating.

    BTW “One never knows when an Aaron Small is going to appear” sounds like a mantra that Cash repeats every night. Unfortunately it’s not a sound strategy for making your team better. :D

  42. luis November 14th, 2012 at 11:46 pm

    tomingeorgia November 14th, 2012 at 11:31 pm
    luis,
    I’m around most of the time, my friend, but there is very little I can say about slurs on the GM’s and owner’s character, without being thought of as judgmental myself. I’m not exactly lurking, and I like looking at the fantastical trade proposals here.

    That said, I’m not resigned to years of Yankee mediocracy. Been there, done that. The management of this team are not all Bozos, but dollars are dollars, pesos or Bolivars. If you were running the team, with P&L responsibility, what would you do? Second question: do you have any idea what they ARE going to do? I don’t.

    ==================================

    I wrote a post few minutes ago about what I would do ;) I am glad that you are around. On your second question, I have no clue. But what they appear to be doing is slashing costs, but not enough and most of all with a misleading discourse. I rather have them say, we are slashing costs and we won’t be able to field a trully competitive team for a few years. I can live with that. But I can’t stand the comments they make to the media. It appears to me that they are in denial. although I think it is more spin than anything else

  43. yankeefeminista November 14th, 2012 at 11:50 pm

    Caleb Frare ?@Caleb_Frare
    I’ve got a new elbow! #TJ #BaseballProblems

    LHP Caleb Frare had TJS, as per his twitter.

  44. Nick in SF November 14th, 2012 at 11:51 pm

    So should the Yankees ask Jeter to accept a trade and tell Kuroda, Andy, and Mo that they should look elsewhere for employment?

  45. Jerkface November 14th, 2012 at 11:52 pm

    Maybe every pitcher we draft can just start off getting TJS?

  46. jacksquat November 14th, 2012 at 11:53 pm

    Luis, I don’t think there is any way to get Arod’s contract off the books, I doubt the retirement scheme is possible. Maybe jerkface can tell us if that’s possible.

  47. jacksquat November 14th, 2012 at 11:54 pm

    Jerkface November 14th, 2012 at 11:12 pm
    http://i.imgur.com/OmSoYm.png

    Stanton

    haha, hilarious

  48. Jerkface November 14th, 2012 at 11:54 pm

    A-rod can retire, but you’re not allowed to make deals outside of a uniform player contract while a player is under a UPC. If he retires his entire contract gets nulled.

  49. luis November 14th, 2012 at 11:57 pm

    JF,

    But he can sign a private contract to buy a part of the club at a discount price right? Since he is retired and is no longer a member of the union he is not bound by the CBA

  50. jacksquat November 14th, 2012 at 11:57 pm

    So if Arod retired and then suddenly owned part of the Yankees, Bud would be a little suspicious.

  51. Jerkface November 14th, 2012 at 11:58 pm

    Realistically, I don’t see why A-rod would eschew playing baseball, something he obviously loves, and 100+ million dollars, for a stake in the team. Nor do I see the Steinbrenners coming up with a stake in the team worth A-rod’s contract. Why would minority partners decrease their already small share to let A-rod in (the Steinbrenners would probably have to pay a premium for their portion) and why would the steinbrenners dilute their share to let A-rod in?

  52. luis November 15th, 2012 at 12:00 am

    JS,

    He might… And probably ban those kind of deals in the new CBA… But it isn’t right now, so you can get around the CBA that way

  53. Jerkface November 15th, 2012 at 12:03 am

    No, you can’t really Luis. There are provisions in the CBA where baseball can smack you down for doing shady stuff. There ARE rules that say you cannot offer A-rod teamstake to retire, circumventing the luxury tax. It doesn’t specifically say that of course, but the language is there with that implication. You cannot make deals outside of a UPC with players while they are under contract. You cannot make deals that undermine the luxury tax.

  54. luis November 15th, 2012 at 12:03 am

    JF,

    Ok, if the stake of the team is not an option…Can he sign a personal services contract worth the money he is leaving as a player?… I was thinking that this proposal should be made after 2013, depending mostly on how much Arod declines… If it self evident that he can cut it anymore, he might be willing to accept such a deal

  55. Nick in SF November 15th, 2012 at 12:04 am

    Arod wouldn’t have much of a chance at becoming the new home run king in retirement.

  56. Jerkface November 15th, 2012 at 12:04 am

    Personal services contracts are banned.

  57. luis November 15th, 2012 at 12:05 am

    Never mind JF… You answer in a preious post… So there is no way out?

  58. Tar November 15th, 2012 at 12:05 am

    Hey Luis
    Sorry but ALex and his 647HR’s and 100 mil on the table is not going to retire any time soon.

  59. Against All Odds November 15th, 2012 at 12:05 am

    Trish made some good points and even though it was directed at me I feel the need to reply lol. It’s not about sure bets or perfection or spending money like drunk sailors. It’s about the team putting more value on saving money than winning. For the first time its more important about what the budget is. Many fans point to this yr but it started yrs ago when they traded for Hinske and had his former team pick up a portion of the contract. Wtf you can’t pick up the rest of the money left on a deal for a role player in the second half of the season??? Is the wallet that tight. Hinske was going to be a free agent at the end of the yr. It’s not like he had multiple yrs with big money.

    I didn’t mind the whole compete but at the same time infuse youth plan because although it is not easy to do it should they tried to please both groups: The group that wants to compete every yr and the group that wants to get younger. The problem is they either mishandle their kids or don’t trust them.

  60. Jerkface November 15th, 2012 at 12:05 am

    The only way out of A-rod’s contract is if he retires on his own or if the team trades him.

  61. Jerkface November 15th, 2012 at 12:07 am

    I actually have no problem with the Yankees getting teams to kick in money on trades. That is smart business, it reduces luxury tax liability. The problem is if the Yankees nix deals for valuable players specifically because of money, like they did when Cash tried to acquire Mike Cameron.

  62. jacksquat November 15th, 2012 at 12:07 am

    They also wouldn’t just pay Arod and get nothing from him. He is still a decent 3B/DH, he’s just not worth his salary, so the Yankees do get something if he plays.

  63. luis November 15th, 2012 at 12:09 am

    We are screwed then…. Yikes

  64. luis November 15th, 2012 at 12:11 am

    Tar,

    Hello my friend…I hear ya :(

  65. G. Love November 15th, 2012 at 12:11 am

    You talk about “negative” posters enough in here and the ding dong bell goes off in crazy chapel and Beetlejuice appears to remind us all what drinking too much Kool Aid can possibly lead to.

    Some of the parallells drawn between people talking baseball and real life & death events makes me want to vomit.

    But keep encouraging it. That kind of on point discourse is what’s sorely needed in here. If I knew how to insert the eye roll thing here I would by the way.

    After a night where CB returns and actual smart baseball talk returns to the blog it’s completely depressing to see the same old voices lashing out at people who enjoy talking about the team & where it’s headed.

    What did Randy call it? Tea party-esque?

    I hate to bring anything political to the discussion but man oh man, was he right.

  66. jacksquat November 15th, 2012 at 12:12 am

    Since there were zero replies, I guess no one really liked my cheap catching plattoon idea of Hanigan/Brantly. But anyway, here is a couple of videos of Brantly homering off the NL CY winner, and going oppo for a double and rbi:

    http://miami.marlins.mlb.com/t.....='ALL

  67. Jerkface November 15th, 2012 at 12:15 am

    Jacksquat, I’m not sure either player is available but that platoon makes sense.

  68. Jerkface November 15th, 2012 at 12:15 am

    Better than Martin/Stewart or our current platoon of Stewart/Whiteside.

    I like Hanigan a lot, its just unfortunate he isn’t a free agent.

  69. G. Love November 15th, 2012 at 12:17 am

    jacksquat,

    I think Brantly has impressive ears. Other than that, I don’t have an opinion on him and Hannigan since I didn’t know who they were until you mentioned them tonight. I don’t get to watch a lot of NL ball.

  70. Nick in SF November 15th, 2012 at 12:18 am

    randy was right??? :roll:

  71. jacksquat November 15th, 2012 at 12:19 am

    I was just thinking they might let Hanigan go for the right trade if they are ready to give their hot prospect (#16 pre 2012) Devin Mesoraco more of the playing itme.

  72. G. Love November 15th, 2012 at 12:21 am

    Nick,

    Actually, he was left.

  73. jacksquat November 15th, 2012 at 12:21 am

    I’m digging really deep trying to find a catching solution. It’s kind of a barren wasteland…

  74. luis November 15th, 2012 at 12:22 am

    JS,

    I didn’t know the players…I’ll look them up and let you know

  75. G. Love November 15th, 2012 at 12:23 am

    jacksquat,

    Romine not panning out thus far has hurt this team and will likely get Martin a 3 year deal.

    I honestly don’t know where else they turn. Martin has them over a barrel.

  76. luis November 15th, 2012 at 12:24 am

    I’ll do it tomorrow….Have a very good night Lohud.

    G Love,

    I don’t think he meant Randy’s political inclinations ;)

  77. Jerkface November 15th, 2012 at 12:25 am

    Mesoraco struggled, so it may take alot to pry Hanigan. Catcher is indeed tough. David Ross was available and he hit .268 .333 .485 .818 vs RHP… Would have been a nice pickup considering Martin/Stewart are both better vs LHP.

  78. Nick in SF November 15th, 2012 at 12:26 am

    I remember randy’s original rant; I think he was mostly haranguing against a particular person. He also said he wasn’t going to waste any more time on people he wouldn’t waste time on “in real life” and then went away for a long time.

    Good times.

  79. jacksquat November 15th, 2012 at 12:27 am

    Napoli and Pierzynski are out there, but they both would probably require 2+ year deals, plus Napoli is limited behind the plate, and Pierzynski turns 36 next month.

  80. G. Love November 15th, 2012 at 12:27 am

    Nick,

    The “tea party” stuff honestly stuck out with me. I don’t remember any other part of the rant.

    To me the kool aid drinking part of this blog comes off tea party-esque with their pleas for all of us to just shut up, close our brains and smell the sweet cotton the uniforms are made with and be happy.

  81. luis November 15th, 2012 at 12:27 am

    G Love,

    Wouldn’t you give Romine the shot at the C position? I don’t think Martin is that big of an upgrade to give him three years or the money he may be asking.

  82. jacksquat November 15th, 2012 at 12:31 am

    As soon as news came out that the Yankees were interested in Ross, the Red Sox swooped in and snatched him up. Cashman too slow on that one. Can’t mess around with catchers, they are in demand.

  83. jacksquat November 15th, 2012 at 12:33 am

    I have some doubts about Romine being able to hit, he’s struggling in the AFL too. I wouldn’t need him to hit a lot, but would like for him to have the potential to not be terrible. Plus there are the back issues.

  84. G. Love November 15th, 2012 at 12:34 am

    luis,

    I think giving Romine the job is about the best possible solution if the Yankees cannot afford to give Martin what his market value is.

    Our catcher didn’t hit until the last couple of months of 2012 so it’s not like we’re replacing a .270 hitter with power.

    If Romine can’t handle the job, you keep plugging career backups like Stewart/Cervelli in there and hope Gary Sanchez makes some real big progress next year.

    I’m not against Martin returning but I’m not sure committing the next 3 years to him is wise. He leaves a lot to be desired and his plate approach is atrocious the majority of the time.

    That being said, I do think Martin has a .250-.270 hitter in him somewhere if he take his approach to a more contact oriented one. He actually has the ability to shoot for RF on the outside pitch like Jeter. The problem this season was he was spinning around in the batters box trying to pull everything so often he rolled over on those pitches and did nothing with them.

    There’s a better hitter inside him. We saw glimpses of it.

  85. Nick in SF November 15th, 2012 at 12:34 am

    The original rant included referring to the person as a bigot (not by name, of course) and some other inappropriate political stuff. I don’t think he meant it metaphorically, or not completely so.

    Brilliant baseball mind, though.

  86. Bronx Jeers November 15th, 2012 at 12:35 am

    Cotton uniforms? The legend of Costanza lives on.

  87. G. Love November 15th, 2012 at 12:37 am

    Nick,

    You know, they say Bobby V is also a brilliant baseball mind too.

  88. G. Love November 15th, 2012 at 12:38 am

    Jeers,

    Cotton just feels better. It breathes after all.

  89. Nick in SF November 15th, 2012 at 12:39 am

    Bobby V also has phenomenal interpersonal skills. Uncanny!

  90. Bronx Jeers November 15th, 2012 at 12:44 am

    But if only the Yanks could have remembered that “…hitting is not about muscle. It’s simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.”

  91. UnKnown November 15th, 2012 at 12:46 am

    Hal and Company love the “Don’t worry be Happy” fans. Maybe when YS is a ghost town next year, if things don’t change this off-season, they can play that song during the middle of the 8th inning just like Fenway plays Sweet Caroline. All the fools can expose themselves and sing along.

    Comment section here has actually been great lately IMO. A ton of sensible baseball talk. I think the fact that discussions here have “seemed” negative is more the fault of the Yankees FO themselves then the people who post here. The Yankees FO “seem” in a daze.

    The reality of the situation right now surrounding the Yankees is negative, of course some people don’t like to acknowledge reality, hence everything is still butterflies and daisies.

    Once things start trending positive again for the Yankee organization, I suspect the comments will “seem” more positive. Because reality of the situation will look a lot better. Amazing thought right there I know, but trust me, it will happen.

    Until then if it’s to negative for anyone, you could just always stay away. That is always an option, instead of dropping in and adding to the negativity by whining and complaining about the people who you think “seem” to be whining and complaining. But people don’t want to do that either, so the Circle which is Lohud continues on…

  92. G. Love November 15th, 2012 at 12:47 am

    Too bad Hal is taking the whole “Opposite George” episode to heart.

  93. Duh Innings II November 15th, 2012 at 12:53 am

    I’m glad the Tigers signed Torii Hunter for two years and $26M. Stupid move. He’s too old to give two years to and history shows he’s not equalling or bettering his 2012. Besides, Hunter showed he’s a frontrunner (‘signs with the 2012 AL Champs.) Does he honestly think the Tigers are going to the World Series next year? History doesn’t show that either (only two WS appearances after ’84.) They barely won their division.

    At this point I say the Yanks should offer Melky Cabrera a year and $13.3M (what the Yanks offered Swisher) and see if he bites. If he doesn’t bite offer Swisher two years at $13.3M a year (just double the offer made to him.) If Swisher doesn’t bite either, offer Ichiro a year and $7M where he defers $5M of it like he deferred last season. If Ichiro doesn’t accept, it’s platoon Ibanez with Scott Hairston time.

  94. Cashmoney November 15th, 2012 at 1:07 am

    so. not much going on… i feel most of the winter days are just like the movie groundhog’s day.

  95. Pat M. November 15th, 2012 at 1:07 am

    B

  96. Nick in SF November 15th, 2012 at 1:08 am

    It’s only November 14. Pace yourself or you’ll go nuts by Pearl Harbor Day.

  97. Pat M. November 15th, 2012 at 1:09 am

    Believe or not Tori Hunter can still play and will make the Tigers a little better……..26 million / 13 million a year isn’t that far off actually….

  98. Cashmoney November 15th, 2012 at 1:11 am

    The Germans would not dare to invade us twice…

  99. Lost November 15th, 2012 at 1:13 am

    Couple of thoughts:

    - If the Yankees weren’t handicapped by spending constraints (which really they are not, they just choose to be) what options are available?
    - Hamilton signing him is playing with fire. At leat, anything more than a 2-3yr deal
    - We don’t have the trade pieces other clubs are looking for
    - We don’t have anybody that’s even a potential better option
    - Arod and Tex lock this team up due to their production more so then money
    - The Steinbrenner’s are not baseball aficionado’s just because George was
    - FO Is a mess, the hierarchy is missing, no real leadership with a “baseball vision”
    - Damage Control seems to be the name of the game
    - You cannot rebuild halfway, it’s either an all or nothing thing.
    - None of this would matter if this team wasn’t so distressingly boring to watch
    - Mistakes are embraced with this club, not corrected (Doing the same thing over and over expecting different results)

    Yankees have the will to win, it shows up at every game. They pro athletes that thrive on competing. Of course they want to bring another WS to NY, who wouldn’t ? However, there is a big difference in wanting to compete and win and being hungry for it. Whatever happens in this off-season I hope some excitement is added to this club because regardless of winning or losing this team is not all that fun to watch and hasn’t been in quite some time.

    In Closing:

    It’s still early, change is on the horizon. I’m not expecting all problems to be solved this winter, but as long as we can find a pragmatic approach, form a plan and have a leader find a vision that we can build off of, I’ll find some solace in that.

  100. Pat M. November 15th, 2012 at 1:13 am

    Nick in SF….Allan Crabbe, very impressive !!!!

  101. jacksquat November 15th, 2012 at 1:15 am

    I don’t think it would take anywhere near 13 mil to get Melky. He has baggage and teams will be unsure of how he will perform.

  102. Pat M. November 15th, 2012 at 1:16 am

    Lost…..For me this was your best post, very insightful and I tend to agree with you

  103. Lost November 15th, 2012 at 1:19 am

    Just realized it is 1:15AM – what am I still doing awake when I have to be up at 5:45AM. These old bones need a solid 7 hours of sleep or I am completely mentally MIA for the day.

    G. Love :

    Great thoughts, they really register with me. Couldn’t have articulated any better myself. Thanks for keeping this place green.

  104. coney1 November 15th, 2012 at 1:21 am

    Lost,

    I don’t see it happening. The Yankees’ front office is a ship without a captain. Hal is a budget wonk, Levine is a loose cannon, and Cashman is a toolbox who has long overstayed his welcome. Hal wants to get under $189M but there is no way to do that with Sabathia, A-Rod, Tex, and likely Cano taking up a huge chunk of your budget and you still have 21 spots to fill. I don’t see Pettitte and Rivera coming back after this year so you have two key spots to fill in a # 3 starter and a closer. These will cost money. What’s worse is neither this team, nor this front office seems to have any fire (with the possible exception of Levine). I believe Hal Steinbrenner would pull a Jeffrey Loria if he could get away with it.

    I’m very frustrated by this team. Especially when they will do all of their key shopping in February, signing 40-year old has-beens to fill roster spots.

  105. Lost November 15th, 2012 at 1:23 am

    Pat M. November 15th, 2012 at 1:16 am
    Lost…..For me this was your best post, very insightful and I tend to agree with you

    Thanks. Took the laptop to bed and was dozing off while writing that post. It took me quite sometime to post it since I had to delete a string of simultaneous letters from holding down the keys while nodding off. Bedtime for me, night !

  106. Pat M. November 15th, 2012 at 1:27 am

    Another thing to keep in mind is that Goldman Sach is trying to sell off their share of the YES investment……Last I read was that The News Corp was making an offer after Fox made their bid…….Yanks still hold 36 % ownership however Sachs was an annuity partner with the Bombers…….I still think be decades end the Steinbrenners will be out of the game completely

  107. Cashmoney November 15th, 2012 at 1:42 am

    Pat M, i think Cuban would make a good owner. I think the man is intelligent and seem to be a student of whatever endeavor he is engaged in at the moment. Now that Guggeinheim Group has demonstrated they can spent money with utter disregard (well, maybe for 2 years), I don’t see why the old boys network won’t let Cuban in.

  108. Villa Nova-Ya November 15th, 2012 at 7:20 am

    It may not be the worst thing to happen if the Steinbrenners sell the Yankees. I guess it depends on who the new owners are.

    My thinking with the 189 cap was that it was smart business for the Yankees to take advantage of being able to re-set their luxury tax obligations. It would mean that in the future a 10 million contract was a 10 million contract. They were already paying more for free agents, having to outbid other teams, and then the luxury tax on top – I honestly can see how that could be aggravating.

    I think several things have happened which really made this goal unpalatable, because, really 189 is still a heck of a lot to spend on salaries. It really is. One is it coincides with a time in baseball where other teams have more money to spend and can increase their spending because they started out lower than that 189, and they do not have to outbid the Yankees. There’s the ARod contract, which, had ARod not done PEDs (or been outted as having used PEDs), there was value in his milestones in terms of merchandising and the number of people who would come to see Yankees games as he neared those milestones. (Of course the PEDs probably led to his physical deterioration and the milestones likely will not be piling up anyway.) I still believe ARod can be a contributor – a big contributor – to the team but not in the way he was signed on to be. I believe ARod will work hard this off-season to try and figure out a new approach and I think he will do it.

    I’m not down on Tex as many of you here, or Martin, for that matter. But I am down on what seems like some dug-in heels by almost the entire team in their batting approach. It is undeniable if you watched games over the last 3 years to see that they are stubborn and thus easy to scout and easy, in a short series, to have their weaknesses exposed. Over the course of an entire season, they are still a team that’s going to win a lot of games. And then there’s almost every prospect they have or had who gets just so far and then phhhhzzzzztttt. I don’t know if it’s bad luck, bad development or a combination.

    So, yeah, there are definitely things that warrant concern and quite a bit of it. There is nothing wrong in going back and forth and trying to figure out what the Yankees might do, or putting forth an opinion on what you think they should do. I’d imagine that’s part of the allure of baseball, and disagreements (friendly and otherwise) are part of being a fan.

    But the other part of being a fan involves hope and faith, and I know no one likes to hear that this highly flawed, deeply dysfunctional (apparently), injury-plagued team without a clear direction and players who are not accountable won 95 games. But they did. It wasn’t pretty how they did it, that’s for certain. But they did it. And they won their division. And they won more games than any other team in their league. And part of why and how they did it was those dumpster dive veterans. I think the heart and desire to win is strong within the Yankee organization.

    The final four games should not define their season. But those games should be looked at closely by whoever it is that is supposed to do that. The first two games should not have been lost. Those are the games that they need to examine. After that, it was more or less inevitable that they would not overcome any more adversity.

    I just want to add that just because I prefer to stay positive doesn’t mean I don’t see the flaws or that I don’t think some changes could be made both to personnel and to general approach. But the constant bashing of players, management and ownership gets me down, and more power to you if all this discussion brings you some kind of positive feeling. The one thing I always think about though, is as much as we think we know these days because of all the information that seems to be available to fans these days, we still aren’t in that clubhouse, and we still aren’t in those offices, and there are things we are not privy to. So what bugs me is not so much the “negativity” as it is the certitude that some fans have that they know what’s going on and why. Not the conjecture, but the certitude.

    Anyway, could be we as fans are in for some lean years (or maybe not, you really don’t know until the games are played). But i do know that winning the off-season has no direct correlation with winning the WS, it is still very early, and I believe the Yankees have to remain competitive and will. Winning will be tougher because of parity. And it does no good to try and figure out what George would have done in the environment engendered by the new CBA. I may be naive or gullible or plain stupid, but I don’t think it’s the end. It may be the end of an era, but it’s not the end of the Yankees as a winning franchise. One other thing I forgot to mention is that those long-terms contracts the Yankees gave out, with the NTCs – if they didn’t give them out at the time they did, they don’t get those players. For whatever reason, it seems like even though once players get here they talk about how great it is to play for the Yankees and be part of such a great franchise, etc., etc., etc., but that feeling of being part of something great isn’t enough to get or keep players. It’s always cost the Yankees more. And now other teams, because of parity, and the wild card and extra wild card, have inroads to the post-season, and players don’t feel like they need to come to NY to “get their ring” (and good riddance to those kinds of players anyway!!!).

    Sorry for the drawn out post. It think it’s worth saying that the situation and people’s feelings about it are more complex than if you refuse to get into the criticism that you’re entirely happy about the situation the Yankees are in.

  109. Mike Ri November 15th, 2012 at 7:22 am

    Per MLBTR

    The Yankees saw Hunter as a good fit but never made him an offer, reports Erik Boland of Newsday (on Twitter). They don’t have any offers out to position players at the moment and are focused on re-signing Hiroki Kuroda and Mariano Rivera.

  110. blake November 15th, 2012 at 7:33 am

    Villa,

    Well said….(I had to have an intermission between reading that ;)) but very nice post.

    A lot of the negativity here is said tongue in cheek or at least partly in jest…..not all but a lot.

    I feel like the players on the Yankees really have a great pedigree and will to win….it showed last year because as you say they did win 95 games despite IMO not really being good enough to do so…..,

    That’s one reason I get so irritated…..because I see the players overachieve and I feel like the front office isn’t going to back them up anymore…..hope they prove me wrong

  111. Villa Nova-Ya November 15th, 2012 at 7:37 am

    blake-

    It wasn’t until I hit submit that I realized how really long a post it was. I really am sorry.

  112. blake November 15th, 2012 at 7:40 am

    I think all many of us want to see from the Yankees is that they have a real plan…..

    That either they are going to spend the money to maintain their level of competitiveness or if not then at least show that they have a real and creative plan to do what they seem to want to do with the payroll and make it work on the field.

    What it seems like they are doing is just to maintain the status quo ad let the payroll come down on its own as contracts expire and this the level of play with it…..that’s unacceptable

  113. austinmac November 15th, 2012 at 7:43 am

    Villa,

    Well said. What we fans would simply like to believe is the Yankees have a plan to keep the team successful. Instead, we only hear of cost cutting. Sports are much more fun when your favorite team wins.

    I think the team overachieved last year. With departures, that becomes less likely. Add some youth even from below or elsewhere. No more all or nothing, big hairy monsters who are easy to pitch to. Think longer term. Trade important pieces if unsignable. Simply, be smart.

  114. Villa Nova-Ya November 15th, 2012 at 7:44 am

    blake -

    I think it’s really difficult to ascertain the “tongue in cheek” aspect over the internet. And even emoticons don’t do people’s true feelings justice. “wink, shrug, smilie”

    I have to say that the other day there were a lot of well thought-out posts which supported the opinion that the Yankees could truly be setting themselves up to sell. So much so that anyone who wasn’t thinking that way had to take note and admit that it is a distinct possibility.

    I had thought that the Steinbrenners would hold onto the team because it really is a gem of a corporate entity to own and gives them access to so much as well as a vehicle to support the good works that the family does. But for a fan, it can’t be just a vehicle; it feels like an owner should like baseball or sports, and while I do think that as long as Hal et al. own the Yankees, they do want to win, it feels like it’s for different reasons, if that makes sense.

  115. blake November 15th, 2012 at 7:48 am

    Villa,

    Don’t be sorry…. It was a good post

  116. blake November 15th, 2012 at 7:50 am

    If the Steinbrenners aren’t going to carry on their father’s passion for winning and be as committed to that goal as the fans and players are the I hope they do sell

  117. Villa Nova-Ya November 15th, 2012 at 7:51 am

    I’m not sure how creative they can be. :(

    There are restrictive contracts in place, for one. There is the matter of other teams not really being of a mind to help the Yankees be creative (no one’s gonna allow the Yankees to benefit from another team’s firesale, I think).

    I don’t think they can trade Cano. I think it would alienate a large part of the fan base. It would truly be seen, I think, as the team “giving up.” Cano is really the one home grown talent they can hang their hats on once Jeter, et al, are gone, which will be really really really soon. There are other marginal home growns, but none that are perennial all-stars who get MVP votes.

    i admit to getting attached to players and this off-season may be a personally painful one for me. I’m trying to pre-set myself for the possibility/probability that certain players will be gone. But that’s part of baseball, isn’t it? Especially before long-term NT contracts were the norm?

    Personally, I think that if an outcome of this tough time is that the Yankees get to do business differently, that could be a good thing. As I said, the 189 is an opportunity to reset, but not just the LT, it can also reset the way they do contracts and sign players in the future. Perhaps Cano will be the exception, but I do not see any more ARod, Tex, Sabathia contracts in the future.

  118. Villa Nova-Ya November 15th, 2012 at 7:56 am

    blake -

    I think as crazy as George was, and as embarrassing as he could be, NY fans kinda liked that they had this “out there” owner who seemed to be as much into his team as they were. There aren’t many like him. They did not win every year. Many of his signings were ill-advised. He meddled too much in the day to day. But he was iconic.

    His sons (and daughters) are more like other owners. If the Yankees can continue to field a winning team, great. But we’ll all need to gut-check that just because a team stays in the family doesn’t mean things won’t change. Owners don’t need to be passionate, just committed. I feel the jury is out on Hal still as far as commitment to the team; but he sure does not have the passion.

  119. austinmac November 15th, 2012 at 7:58 am

    If they are not going to give Cano eight years he won’t likely sign. If they are going to do business differently, it has to apply across the board. And yes, Cano is their best player, but hardly a fan favorite.

  120. austinmac November 15th, 2012 at 8:00 am

    What Yankee fan wouldn’t want Ilitch as the owner? He is Georgelike in his desire to win but let’s Dombroski make the decisions. If an owner is not a fan, it doesn’t go well. CBS says hello.

  121. blake November 15th, 2012 at 8:00 am

    “I don’t think they can trade Cano. I think it would alienate a large part of the fan base”

    So would letting him walk in free agency though…..and Cano is going to demand 200 million dollars if he reaches free agency.

    That’s the point…. They can’t play this half way like they are trying to….they can’t be dead set on lopping 30+ million off the payroll and then at the same time give Cano another gigantic contract that will hamper them even further……they have to pick a lane.

    You can demand payroll be lowered and at the same time refuse to do extensions and refuse to make bold trades that could help make you more flexible for the future.

    I’m not saying they should trade Cano……but I am saying that if they can’t extend him early this winter for a discount…. And if they are serious about this 189 stuff then they have to at least see what he would bring……

  122. AAA November 15th, 2012 at 8:04 am

    I’m not sure how creative they can be. :(

    There are restrictive contracts in place, for one. There is the matter of other teams not really being of a mind to help the Yankees be creative (no one’s gonna allow the Yankees to benefit from another team’s firesale, I think)

    ==================================

    I agree. They’re a little bit stuck here. It’s not entirely there fault, as the rules changed on ‘em in the middle of some of these more onerous contracts. Further, they’re now walking the fine line between competing at the highest level, which they did do last year, and addressing this $189M matter. One can argue the time to act was last off season, when they could have considered dealing 2 years worth of Granderson and/or Cano for quality young talent. Counter is obviously that doing that would have sent the message to fans that competing in 2012 and perhaps beyond wasn’t/isn’t a priority, which is a tough sell to fans. It’s a tough spot with minimal wiggle room, IMO.

  123. austinmac November 15th, 2012 at 8:05 am

    They still could, of course, but the Yankees have evidently not engaged Boras about Cano. How can they not in their new economic environment?

  124. Villa Nova-Ya November 15th, 2012 at 8:09 am

    blake -

    I understand – Cano really is a fly in any ointment.

    I’d imagine they would try and see what he would bring, but what good is getting a player who would have been great in tandem with Cano, without Cano?

    Anyway, they held a line with Jeter that I never imagined they would. So, I guess anything is possible. That’s what I meant about trying to get myself prepared for what could happen this off-season.

    Don’t see Cano giving any discounts.

    And I am getting weary of the Yankees own players trying to be more team-friendly on a team that gets them to the playoffs every year, when other teams seem to be able to get their players to agree to friendlier terms.

    So maybe it is time to erase the slate altogether. But they can’t, really. Can they? Not as long as everyone can point to ARod’s contract.

  125. blake November 15th, 2012 at 8:11 am

    Signing Yu Darvish would have been creative given his age and that he’s a less than 10 million a year commitment in AAV…..instead they traded their best prospect for a pitcher because he didn’t have a piston fee and because he makes the league minimum…..

    They apparently are going to just let two assets in Cano and Granderson play out their contracts and either sign them to bad deals or lose them for draft picks.

    They haven’t been aggressive internationally the last couple of years (where they can cheat the system best and not be penalized) …

    I agree with what some of you are saying about then being a bit stuck….and I agree to some extent they are….but there also aren’t very many signs that they have a clue how to work around the issue .

  126. RadioKev November 15th, 2012 at 8:14 am

    “I’d imagine they would try and see what he would bring, but what good is getting a player who would have been great in tandem with Cano, without Cano?”

    I think it would be unwise to strictly look for major league talent. I think going after the best prospect package could be the best move for the future. Adding 3 or 4 decent to blue chip prospects would really improve our outlook for the future.

    Even without Cano we would be competitive within the division, I think.

  127. blake November 15th, 2012 at 8:14 am

    “I’d imagine they would try and see what he would bring, but what good is getting a player who would have been great in tandem with Cano, without Cano?”

    I’ve suggested that if they don’t believe they can retain Cano and they don’t believe they can get fair value for him in a trade…..then they should try to sign Hamilton to a shorter deal than they would have to give Cano and then have then both in 2013 and let Cano walk after next year……then you still at least have Hamilton in the middle of the lineup and for a shorter number of years……they won’t spend the money to do that though……

    So Boras will likely take Cano to free agency with insane leverage against the Yankees …..

  128. Villa Nova-Ya November 15th, 2012 at 8:14 am

    ** UGH – NOT trying to be more team friendly. Typing too fast.

    And look, I don’t begrudge players trying to make as much money or getting as many years as they can. But just once, I’d like to see a guy say, hey, I make a lot of money, I just want to stay here because I like it, and I’ll take a little less so we can get even better as a team.

    And I am mad at Swisher for using a few fans at a few really disappointing games (though I am not proud that our fans booed our playoff team) to make him feel better about leaving NY, and make it seem like if he leaves it is the fans’ fault – that he might’ve stayed otherwise. I admit to thinking he may have been the one in a million to take a hometown discount. He really seemed to enjoy it here. But no one takes less money from the Yankees. No one.

  129. blake November 15th, 2012 at 8:15 am

    The Tigers would pay a lot for Cano in players I think …..they are all in for right now

  130. Villa Nova-Ya November 15th, 2012 at 8:16 am

    But prospects are not guaranteed.

    I have to run in a minute, but my fear is if they trade Cano for a bunch of prospects they will in reality have traded Cano for nothing.

  131. RadioKev November 15th, 2012 at 8:16 am

    “Signing Yu Darvish would have been creative given his age and that he’s a less than 10 million a year commitment in AAV…..instead they traded their best prospect for a pitcher because he didn’t have a piston fee and because he makes the league minimum…..”

    Yeah, it would have been creative. At the end of the day it looks like it would have been the right move. However, it did come with that risk and the team would be out of millions of dollars with still a tightening budget. Apologist as that sounds.

    Folks with sight Cespedes too, but Nick Swisher did the job just fine. Holding on to him would make this all much easier.

  132. RadioKev November 15th, 2012 at 8:18 am

    Villa Nova-Ya November 15th, 2012 at 8:16 am
    But prospects are not guaranteed.

    I have to run in a minute, but my fear is if they trade Cano for a bunch of prospects they will in reality have traded Cano for nothing.
    ———

    And counter to my previous post, the future is a risk in general. Signing Cano to a new contract is a risk. Letting him walk is a risk.

    Adding more prospects to our current crop, I think, would be beneficial. I think we could have 3-5 cornerstone players.

  133. AAA November 15th, 2012 at 8:19 am

    And I am getting weary of the Yankees own players trying to be more team-friendly on a team that gets them to the playoffs every year, when other teams seem to be able to get their players to agree to friendlier terms

    ===============================

    Yankees actually did get a team friendly contract with Cano, when they wisely locked him up to a lengthy deal buying his arb years and 3 years of free agency. I’ve said it before, but I really wish they revisited his deal before the 2 option years (2012-13) and agreed to a 7-8 year deal that would have paid him up until he was 35.

  134. MTU November 15th, 2012 at 8:23 am

    Good morning all.

    Looks like the Hounds were out chasing Fox again last nigt.

    As always great to see VN and others return to give their perspectives.

    We can all use the best possible perspective.

    One thing I’ll say is that the big trade certainly has livened up the discussion here.

    And that’s a good thing.

    :)

  135. Against All Odds November 15th, 2012 at 8:25 am

    I don’t think they can trade Cano. I think it would alienate a large part of the fan base

    ———–

    That’s the thing we sit here and talk about moving Cano but a portion of the fan base can’t even bring themselves to think about that happening. If they move Cano for spects some fans would be happy but a number of fans would completely freak. I had one fan tell me if they trade Cano it better be for King Felix.

  136. Villa Nova-Ya November 15th, 2012 at 8:25 am

    AAA -

    True enough, but Cano then was not yet the Cano he is now, and I think it was a good deal for both parties at the time.

    Radiokev -

    True enough. Everything going forward is a risk. Feels like Dorothy meeting up with the Scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz. “Some people go this way, some people go that way, and of course there are those that try to go both ways.”

    Sometimes I think it makes just as much sense to close your eyes and pick a direction and hope for the best as it does to take the more educated, logical approach.

  137. MTU November 15th, 2012 at 8:27 am

    Maybe some of my faves will return.

    Erin, Erica, Upstate Kate, SJ, GB, Randy, and more.

    Forgive me if I left anyone out. It was not intentional.

    Just giving a Whitman’s Sampler of some who I miss.

    ;)

  138. yanks61 November 15th, 2012 at 8:32 am

    Villa Nova-Ya, thank you for one of the best posts I’ve read here in a very long time, expressing, I think, the feeling that a lot of us have.

    Blake, I know that a lot of your critical remarks are indeed tongue-in-cheek and, like many of us, you realize it’s too early to have a defintive idea of just what the Yanks have in mind for the coming year. Even though I share many of the complaints folks have expressed here,and in spite of my own impatience, I want to see how the off season plays out before dumping on whatever (if any!) plans the Yanks have.

    Of course at the end of the day, I remain a Yankee fan through thick and thin – even when I’m not always in agreement with management (as I’m sure most of us are.) They’ve given me far too much pleasure over the years for me to ever stop supporting the Pinstripes.

  139. MTU November 15th, 2012 at 8:34 am

    Bottom line is that many LoHudder’s are frustrated with the apparent lack of action.

    Many say it’s still early and truly it is.

    But as someone pointed out sometimes it gets late early.

    Cashman’s comments are cryptic as usual and do not inspire confidence. Of course he works in stealth mode. We know that.

    Trouble is we do have strong evidence to suggest that the Yankees are currently limited to giving out 1 yr deals in general.

    Hard to fill holes when that’s the restriction.

    I was hoping for some trades but until we settle our SP I don’t see that we have that much to offer.

    So here we are for now. Stuck in neutral.

    Let’s hope their is a plan and the Yankees somehow pull off some magic.

    The AL Beast just got a lot tougher the other day.

    They better acknowledge that if they want to stay in the hunt next year.

    ;)

  140. MTU November 15th, 2012 at 8:37 am

    And for the record I do beleive the breadcrumbs left on the trail so far point to the possibility of a sale.

    P.S. I’m an avid Hiker and I know a lot about breadcrumbs and where they lead.

    :)

  141. Against All Odds November 15th, 2012 at 8:41 am

    We could have 3-5 cornerstone players but then we have to rely on the Yankees developing them. Cano is now their best player and he basically fell into their lap

  142. MTU November 15th, 2012 at 8:41 am

    And as penance for my unusallly high level of negativity I am offering
    these :

    https://picasaweb.google.com/109721757058432487394/FallSpringCreek2012?authkey=Gv1sRgCLKk4dftyPGhxgE#

    I hope they suffice.

    :)

  143. MTU November 15th, 2012 at 8:43 am

    I want Stanton and Cano together.

    A truly dynamic duo.

    But I know it won’t happen.

    :(

  144. The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 8:43 am

    2013 25 man roster (keeping the prospects scenario)

    Catcher: Olivo, Napoli

    Infielders: Teixeira, Cano, Jeter, ARod, Chavez, Bartlett/Gonzales

    Outfielders: Gardner, Granderson, Ichiro, Hairston, Ibanez

    Starting Rotation: C.C., Kuroda, Pettitte, Hughes, Nova/Phelps

    Pen: Mo, Robertson, Soria/Howell, Joba, Logan, Nova/Phelps, Eppley

    And wait to see how AA OFers and Murphy, Romine, and Sanchez perform at catcher

  145. The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 8:46 am

    nstead they traded their best prospect for a pitcher because he didn’t have a piston fee and because he makes the league minimum…..

    ******

    No – b/c said pitcher was also coming of an All-Star season as a rookie – - – -

  146. MTU November 15th, 2012 at 8:46 am

    I’d rather sub AJ P for Napoli.

    And Keppinger for Util.

    I like the addition of Soria.

  147. The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 8:48 am

    Against All Odds November 15th, 2012 at 8:41 am
    We could have 3-5 cornerstone players but then we have to rely on the Yankees developing them. Cano is now their best player and he basically fell into their lap

    ******

    I don’t think that is entirely fair – Cano is a potential HOFer at 2b – they do not come along that often – and they do fall into team’s laps – like Jeter did for the Yanks – like Trout did for the Angels – - – and cornerstones are tough to come by – you have to be extremely lucky as well – you are talking about a dynasty under that scenario – - – -

  148. The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 8:49 am

    MTU November 15th, 2012 at 8:46 am
    I’d rather sub AJ P for Napoli.

    And Keppinger for Util.

    I like the addition of Soria.

    *****

    I like Keppinger too – but can he backup Jeter at SS?

  149. jacksquat November 15th, 2012 at 8:49 am

    Heathcott: .388/.494/.612 (3rd highest avg and 2nd highest ops)

    Adams: .296/.394/.543

  150. blake November 15th, 2012 at 8:51 am

    61,

    Well said sir

  151. MTU November 15th, 2012 at 8:51 am

    SB-

    Possibly but that might be for Nunez.

    I don’t expect Jeter back as soon as some others.

    So Nunez or Nix might get extra playing time at SS.

  152. blake November 15th, 2012 at 8:53 am

    ******

    “No – b/c said pitcher was also coming of an All-Star season as a rookie – – – -”

    They didn’t trade for a sure thing and Cashman admitted that …..he admitted that He was “dreaming on Pineda” and that it was a risky deal

  153. The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 8:53 am

    Betances pitched 2 innings and no walks!!!

  154. blake November 15th, 2012 at 8:54 am

    Heathcott and Adams have likely opened some eyes….

  155. blake November 15th, 2012 at 8:54 am

    The Return of Stoneburner says:
    November 15, 2012 at 8:53 am
    Betances pitched 2 innings and no walks!!!

    Time to make him a full time reliever and see I he can help the club in that way…..they still have time to get value out of him

  156. The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 8:55 am

    blake November 15th, 2012 at 8:53 am
    ******

    “No – b/c said pitcher was also coming of an All-Star season as a rookie – – – -”

    They didn’t trade for a sure thing and Cashman admitted that …..he admitted that He was “dreaming on Pineda” and that it was a risky deal

    *******

    And we are still dreaming on Pineda like the M’s are dreaming on Montero – to the point where they are ironically thinking about brining in Russell Martin of all people – plus the coup for the deal for a lot of people was Campos – deal is still under evaluation – - – -but it was not entirely done b/c Pineda was cheap as you originally hinted – - – - which was the purpose of my reply – - – there was merit to the player – not just his cheap contract status – - – -

  157. The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 8:56 am

    blake November 15th, 2012 at 8:54 am
    The Return of Stoneburner says:
    November 15, 2012 at 8:53 am
    Betances pitched 2 innings and no walks!!!

    Time to make him a full time reliever and see I he can help the club in that way…..they still have time to get value out of him

    *****

    Very little time – he is running out of options I believe – this is the season I believe to figure it out – - – -

  158. MTU November 15th, 2012 at 8:57 am

    I’m ready to let Nix, Adams, Nunez, and Keppinger battle it out for Util jobs.

    :)

  159. jacksquat November 15th, 2012 at 8:57 am

    Keppinger is not really a SS, he didn’t even play there last year. He is not rated all that well at 2B either, although he can man the position. Plus he is probably looking for a starting job, and I think there are some teams interested in him for that purpose.

    I think Adams can cover 2B/3B and Nunez SS.

  160. MTU November 15th, 2012 at 8:58 am

    See.

    Patterson is already helping Betances.

    :)

  161. MTU November 15th, 2012 at 8:59 am

    Jack-

    Are you Nixing Nix ?

    ;)

  162. MTU November 15th, 2012 at 8:59 am

    New thread —–>

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