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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Who was the Yankees MVP this season?

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 15, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

My gut feeling is that I would have voted for Mike Trout for the American League MVP award, but I’m not sure. When I sat down to finalize my Cy Young ballot, I fully expected to settle on David Price, but I wound up voting for Justin Verlander. In close races like this, it’s pretty easy to make a case either way, and I haven’t studied the MVP race like I did the Cy Young.

Tonight, though, the Baseball Writers will announce their picks for MVP, and the American League race is fascinating choice between all-around Trout and triple-crown Miguel Cabrera. It’s really a decision of how voters define value.

It’s a similar question when trying to figure out a Yankees MVP.

We already know that Robinson Cano finished highest among the Yankees in the league voting — he’s the only Yankee among the five finalists — but when taking out the generalization of an entire league, was Cano the most valuable player for this particular Yankees team? Given the roster’s specific needs, and it’s specific path to the postseason, did you consider anyone else to be more valuable than Cano?

Here are four players who standout as potential Yankees MVP candidates. Which one you prefer probably depends on what you believe to be most valuable. It’s an intentionally open-ended question, open to interpretation.

Derek Jeter
The source of consistency
By basically every possible metric, Jeter was not the Yankees best offensive player this season. But by a very subjective measure, he’s the one who made this lineup work from beginning to end. Because of injuries and struggles, the middle of the order came and went, but Jeter was a constant at the top. And frankly, before Ichiro Suzuki had his resurgence, the Yankees had absolutely no one to replace Jeter in the leadoff spot. He was the only man for the job, and he got it done all year long. Factor in his role as Captain, and his steady presence when the division race got tight down the stretch, and Jeter’s value was enormous.

Hiroki Kuroda
The unexpected ace
Kuroda struggled late in the year, which was enough for me to keep him off my Cy Young ballot, and which might be enough to rule him out of his discussion. But let’s take a big-picture look at the Yankees rotation this season: CC Sabathia had a down year, Phil Hughes was inconsistent, Andy Pettitte was hurt, Ivan Nova was awful, Freddy Garcia was worse and Adam Warren was the only backup plan. Then there was Kuroda and his sub-3.00 ERA in late August. Considering all that went wrong with the rotation, the Yankees ability to lean on Kuroda every five days was absolutely necessary and unquestionably valuable.

Rafael Soriano
The fill-in closer
Admit it, when Mariano Rivera crashed to the Kansas City warning track in early May, you thought the season was over, didn’t you? It’s easy to say a closer is overrated, but the idea of a season without the greatest of all time was horrifying for this team. And not long after Rivera went down, so did Dave Robertson. In stepped Rafael Soriano, to actually live up to his massive contract and re-establish himself as an elite closer. Even without Rivera, the Yankees bullpen was a source of real stability this season, and the keystone was Soriano in the ninth inning.

Robinson Cano
The best player on the team
I don’t think this is up for debate: Cano is the best player on the team. At the very least, he’s clearly their best all-around hitter, as well as a Gold Glove winner. According to Baseball Reference’s WAR rankings, Cano was the second-most productive player in the American League behind Trout and ahead of Cabrera. So how is this not a runaway decision? Because Cano’s overall numbers went through the roof in the final two weeks, and because really wasn’t very good against left-handers, and because his lower-than-it-should-be RBI total is a product of his failure to produce in key spots. Maybe that’s unfair nitpicking, because there’s no doubt Cano’s overall numbers were MVP-like this season. He’s the best player on the team, and that makes his value awfully hard to dismiss.

One more reminder: Chat today at noon!

Associated Press photos

 
 

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150 Responses to “Who was the Yankees MVP this season?”

  1. MTU November 15th, 2012 at 9:02 am

    How bout Raul for what he did towards the end of the season ?

    Matsui-like.

    :)

  2. PacoDooley November 15th, 2012 at 9:02 am

    For a team MVP I think we need to decide which player would cost you the most games if you took them off the roster. That means, to me, Cano is the clear MVP, with Jeter second.

    I would never give a closer an MVP award for a team since they simply cannot account for many wins. Their role in winning is clearly overrated given how few innings they pitch (and two runs in the second is the same as two runs in the ninth when you look at the final score)…

  3. The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 9:03 am

    Actually it gets more impressive for Betances last night:

    14 pitches thrown – 12 strikes – 6 outs – - – -

  4. MTU November 15th, 2012 at 9:04 am

    My real vote would go to either Jeter or Kuroda.

    Tough call there for me.

  5. spidanyc November 15th, 2012 at 9:05 am

    Yankees should trade Grandy and let Slade Heathcott be the starting CF and hope he can be a lesser version of Mike Trout.

  6. blake November 15th, 2012 at 9:05 am

    “And we are still dreaming on Pineda like the M’s are dreaming on Montero”

    The thought process of the trade was always what took exception to…..how things have played out only makes it worse. I really don’t want to go down the road of discussing it all again…..but Pineda is going to have to really be good in his final 3 years of control for this trade turn out better than the alternative of signing Darvish and keeping Montero……because even if Montero never hits (I still believe he will) then you’re still left comparing a pitcher in Darvish who may have won ROY in a non Trout year to a guy who just had labrum surgery and may never pitch again

  7. spidanyc November 15th, 2012 at 9:05 am

    Hopefully the Red Sox trade for Nolasco and not the Yankees.

  8. blake November 15th, 2012 at 9:07 am

    Cano was their best player…..I think how things played out though they would have been sunk without Kuroda….. He was the stabilizer during that period when all the other pitchers were either hurt or not really pitching great

  9. blake November 15th, 2012 at 9:08 am

    @mlbtraderumors: Braves Close To Signing Gerald Laird http://t.co/M4Sn9rgC #mlb

  10. MTU November 15th, 2012 at 9:09 am

    Cano disappearing off the radar in the PS kind of put a sour taste in my mouth.

    That was very unfortunate.

  11. The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 9:10 am

    blake November 15th, 2012 at 9:05 am
    “And we are still dreaming on Pineda like the M’s are dreaming on Montero”

    The thought process of the trade was always what took exception to…..how things have played out only makes it worse. I really don’t want to go down the road of discussing it all again…..but Pineda is going to have to really be good in his final 3 years of control for this trade turn out better than the alternative of signing Darvish and keeping Montero……because even if Montero never hits (I still believe he will) then you’re still left comparing a pitcher in Darvish who may have won ROY in a non Trout year to a guy who just had labrum surgery and may never pitch again

    ******

    Bringing in Darvish to the trade now? Obtaining Pineda did not preclude Darvish – Darvish was bid on before the trade even occurred. No if anything – the Yanks decided between Kuroda and Darvish last offseason – preferring a one year contract over committing to five years or more. I am also not going to get into the trade – but I will say it again that what started this this morning – Pineda’s contract was not the overriding factor for making the deal – which is what was indicated in the original post.

  12. MTU November 15th, 2012 at 9:11 am

    Jeter’s consistency and resurgence certainly were worth taking note of.

    Really kind of amazing actually.

    When many guys were sputtering he seemed to provide a constant and much needed spark.

  13. blake November 15th, 2012 at 9:13 am

    2012 may have been Cano’s best year when you look at back of the baseball card stats…..but if you look more closely and actually watched the games you realize that he got to those numbers differently than he normally does……he was very streaky in 2012 alternating insane hit stretches with long cold streaks and also doing almost all of his damage vs RHP and being rather pedestrian vs LHp.

    How Cano does against lefties next year will be interesting because one of his strengths was always his ability to hit everybody……if he starts to develop a significant platoon split like he had in 2012 then that greatly reduces his value IMO and also is an early sign of decline

  14. MTU November 15th, 2012 at 9:13 am

    And Jeter’s heroism is, in many ways, unrivaled.

    He always leaves it all out there on the field.

  15. jacksquat November 15th, 2012 at 9:13 am

    Because Cano’s overall numbers went through the roof in the final two weeks

    So? They were fighting with the O’s to win the division, did everyone forget? Isn’t that the most important time to produce in the regular season? Have a look at Jeter’s numbers during that timespan. He was hurting, but that doesn’t change the fact that Cano (and surprisingly Martin) carried the team then.

    The biggest flaw of Cano was hitting with risp. Due to being by far the best hitter on the team, Cano was pitched around in key spots and too often he chased.

  16. blake November 15th, 2012 at 9:14 am

    “Bringing in Darvish to the trade now? Obtaining Pineda did not preclude Darvish”

    They chose to do one over the other…..they didn’t want to spend the money on Darvish so they made a trade

  17. blake November 15th, 2012 at 9:15 am

    “Pineda’s contract was not the overriding factor for making the deal – which is what was indicated in the original post.”

    I think it was a big factor…..they hoped they were getting a cost controlled front line pitcher……and they chose to do that rather than sign Darvish for money only.

  18. The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 9:16 am

    blake November 15th, 2012 at 9:14 am
    “Bringing in Darvish to the trade now? Obtaining Pineda did not preclude Darvish”

    They chose to do one over the other…..they didn’t want to spend the money on Darvish so they made a trade
    *****

    They did not want to commit to the years – it was a choice between going the Kuroda approach or going Darvish/C.J. Wilson – they prefer to go year to year at this point. Kuroda and Hughes are more comps to Darvish than Pineda. You cannot also evaluate everything in a vaccum and say Darvish is to Pineda only – - – - -

  19. jacksquat November 15th, 2012 at 9:16 am

    You can’t compare Pineda to Darvish. One makes minimum wage, the other cost $100 million.

  20. blake November 15th, 2012 at 9:17 am

    “So? They were fighting with the O’s to win the division, did everyone forget? Isn’t that the most important time to produce in the regular season? ”

    They also faced a whole lot of Blue Jays, Red Sox , and Twins pitching during that stretch

  21. blake November 15th, 2012 at 9:18 am

    jacksquat says:
    November 15, 2012 at 9:16 am
    You can’t compare Pineda to Darvish. One makes minimum wage, the other cost $100 million.

    Which is why they made the choice they made…..money

  22. MTU November 15th, 2012 at 9:19 am

    “a guy who just had labrum surgery and may never pitch again”

    That is a huge overstatement IMO Blake and highly unlikely.

    He may not throw 95 + again or be very durable but I’d bet money he takes the hill again.

    And in point of fact, I’m expecting that will be by mid-season.

  23. jacksquat November 15th, 2012 at 9:19 am

    blake November 15th, 2012 at 9:17 am
    “So? They were fighting with the O’s to win the division, did everyone forget? Isn’t that the most important time to produce in the regular season? ”

    They also faced a whole lot of Blue Jays, Red Sox , and Twins pitching during that stretch

    And not everyone hit.

  24. Shame Spencer November 15th, 2012 at 9:20 am

    I know everyone’s mad at us for not being positive enough.. so here is a list of things I’m excited about:

    1. Big development years for Hughes, Nova and Phelps.
    2. Hopefully seeing a minor league guy in the OF.
    3. Montgomery.
    4. Watching Derek Jeter.
    5. Mo.

  25. blake November 15th, 2012 at 9:21 am

    The Yankees didn’t want to spend the money to sign Wilson or Darvish…..so they traded their best prospect for a pitcher…..and you could argue they didn’t even trade for the right pitcher with that strategy……Gio Gonzalez had a 3 year track record of AL success and was also under control for 4 years.

  26. MTU November 15th, 2012 at 9:22 am

    I’m not in the least bit angry with you Shame.

    :)

  27. jacksquat November 15th, 2012 at 9:22 am

    So Montero is worth $100 million? We’ll see.

    The comparison is Montero to Pineda, leave Darvish out of it, he has nothing to do with it.

  28. blake November 15th, 2012 at 9:24 am

    “jacksquat says:
    November 15, 2012 at 9:22 am
    So Montero is worth $100 million? We’ll see.

    The comparison is Montero to Pineda, leave Darvish out of it, he has nothing to do with it.”

    This makes no sense because Montero costs the league minimum also…..Darvish is a part of it because they could have signed him instead of trading Montero for Pineda

  29. Cashmoney November 15th, 2012 at 9:25 am

    I think nyy obtain Pineda because age, stuff, money, and what they see as a potential number one starter. money is big part of it, Cashman acquire him with an eye toward 14 and beyond. obviously, the result has been disastrous so far.

  30. PacoDooley November 15th, 2012 at 9:26 am

    “And we are still dreaming on Pineda like the M’s are dreaming on Montero”

    On the bright side for the Yankees, Pineda had a better WAR this year than Montero…

    “You can’t compare Pineda to Darvish. One makes minimum wage, the other cost $100 million.”

    Yes, but for the Yankees we are supposed to believe that it is all about 189 in 2014, and less than half of that $100m counts against their payroll statement, so from that regard they would do better paying $100m to Darvish than $60m to someone else, and there are not a lot of decent FA arms at a comparable cost.

  31. blake November 15th, 2012 at 9:26 am

    “That is a huge overstatement IMO Blake and highly unlikely.”

    He may not though…..we just don’t know….I hope he does ….I hope he makes it all the way back….but until he gets on a mound and does it we just don’t know

  32. Shame Spencer November 15th, 2012 at 9:26 am

    MTU – I know you could never be angry with this spicy Italian! I actually wanted to write a longer post about good things to look forward too next year but came up a little short.

    I want to see Jeter defy the odds and bounce back from his injury. Same with Mo. If either or doesn’t occur, we’re in trouble.

    I want to see Hughes, Nova and Phelps (assuming no one is traded) make steps in the right direction. Hughes putting together back to back seasons of solid work would be nice. Gotta hope Nova is still giving you 200 innings. Need to get Phelps enough innings to be a factor in 2014.

  33. brianlopez22 November 15th, 2012 at 9:28 am

    Shame Spencer,

    I agree with all your points.
    I want to actually expand the 1 minor leaguer in the OF, into possibly 2, if we can trade Granderson.

    I also hope we have a starting pitcher that can become this year’s David Phelps.

    We will see though.

  34. blake November 15th, 2012 at 9:28 am

    “On the bright side for the Yankees, Pineda had a better WAR this year than Montero…”

    I for one would have rather bad Montero DHing vs LHP in September than Jonesy……

  35. Shame Spencer November 15th, 2012 at 9:29 am

    I think the part people overlook about the Pineda move is that this was the first time we were confronted with the new Yankee business model.

    In the past, we’d hang onto a guy like Hughes and just wait for CC to hit the market… instead of giving up a starter for another, more established starter, we got both.

    The Pineda move was the first that really signaled the end of that era.

    I miss it already!

  36. Against All Odds November 15th, 2012 at 9:30 am

    The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 8:48 am

    Against All Odds November 15th, 2012 at 8:41 am
    We could have 3-5 cornerstone players but then we have to rely on the Yankees developing them. Cano is now their best player and he basically fell into their lap

    ******

    I don’t think that is entirely fair – Cano is a potential HOFer at 2b – they do not come along that often – and they do fall into team’s laps – like Jeter did for the Yanks – like Trout did for the Angels – – – and cornerstones are tough to come by – you have to be extremely lucky as well – you are talking about a dynasty under that scenario – – –

    ————–

    I said he fell into their lap because they basically begged teams to take him. They didn’t know what they have at the time. It goes back to evaluating your talent properly IMO.

  37. Cashmoney November 15th, 2012 at 9:32 am

    we don’t know… but blake has a point… he maybe a shadow of himself. He was a young man on a learning curve before he got hurt. now the daunting tasks lies ahead including recovery to full strength, a full year and half hiatus from pitching,continuing to learn and improve upon his craft once if he does recover. It’s not hard to picture Pineda taking 3 full year just to become his former self which was a short sample of one year ml service that had it’s ups and downs.

    in so many words, not a sure thing by any stretch of imaginations.

  38. jacksquat November 15th, 2012 at 9:32 am

    blake November 15th, 2012 at 9:24 am
    “jacksquat says:
    November 15, 2012 at 9:22 am
    So Montero is worth $100 million? We’ll see.

    The comparison is Montero to Pineda, leave Darvish out of it, he has nothing to do with it.”

    This makes no sense because Montero costs the league minimum also…..Darvish is a part of it because they could have signed him instead of trading Montero for Pineda

    It makes total sense because you are saying they should have spent $100 million for Darvish instead of trading Montero for one.

  39. brianlopez22 November 15th, 2012 at 9:34 am

    Against All Odds,

    That is the thing people fail to remember.

    Cano was not the highest of highly touted prospects.
    Cashman tried hard to move Cano many times.

    Cashman is a terrible evaluator of young talent.
    He has dessimated the farm system that Stick Michael helped build.
    He is only good for buying FAs and finding bottom of the barrel 75 year old veterans to come off the bench.

  40. MTU November 15th, 2012 at 9:40 am

    It’s only a guesstimate but I’m betting that Pineda will be Pitching in some capacity for some length of time next season.

    With only one caveat. That he is willing to put in the hard work that is needed to get himself ready.

    He is already throwing off flat ground and we’re not even close to ST.

    He’ll probably make it back. Question is when and for how long.

    The long term prognosis is what’s poor in these cases.

  41. Cashmoney November 15th, 2012 at 9:40 am

    i think it’s going a bit far to say cashman decimated the farm… i don’t think he is a creative beast nor do i think he is good talent evaluator.

  42. blake November 15th, 2012 at 9:40 am

    “It makes total sense because you are saying they should have spent $100 million for Darvish instead of trading Montero for one.”

    I am saying that they chose to trade their best prospect for a pitcher rather than spend money for one yes

  43. jacksquat November 15th, 2012 at 9:41 am

    I think the trying to trade Cano thing is being exaggerated. If Cashman “begged teams to take him” and tried to trade him “many times”, then did all the other teams in baseball also not evaluate Cano correctly by not taking him?

    Yeah, touche.

  44. Cashmoney November 15th, 2012 at 9:42 am

    JS, that’s fallacy in logic to derive from blake’s statement that not signing a 100 mil dollar man equating to Montero being worth that same amount.

  45. MTU November 15th, 2012 at 9:43 am

    Relying most prospects is risky buisness.

    The failure rate is extremely high and the odds against them in large measure.

    Most simply don’t pan out.

    Young Pitching is the riskiest of all.

  46. jacksquat November 15th, 2012 at 9:44 am

    Blake, and they got fair value for Montero. The only legitimate argument is did they need hitting more than pitching.

  47. chicken little November 15th, 2012 at 9:45 am

    Regardless of if Cashman is a good GM, bad one, or mediocre one, I think its time for a new GM. Cashman seems to have gotten stale. Over the past couple of years all we hear is the prices are too high, woe is me, etc … True, its always easy to second guess decisions after they are made, but the end result is the Yanks passed on a ton of affordable talent becasue of poor evaluation. Its probably time for a change (and by change I mean brining in someone from the outside with a fresh perspective).

  48. MTU November 15th, 2012 at 9:46 am

    That is one reason I would trade several “prospects”, even good ones, for a guy like JU.

    The odds are that none of them will be as good.

    And Upton is still very young.

  49. blake November 15th, 2012 at 9:47 am

    jacksquat says:
    November 15, 2012 at 9:44 am
    Blake, and they got fair value for Montero. The only legitimate argument is did they need hitting more than pitching.

    I guess…..but I don’t think it was a great idea given their needs.

  50. Cashmoney November 15th, 2012 at 9:47 am

    Young Pitching is the riskiest of all.
    —–
    very true MTU, now let’s talk about the maid services on the island… i am thinking we should do models hire to serve kind of deal, yes, very shallow concept. but we own the island!

  51. jacksquat November 15th, 2012 at 9:47 am

    Cashmoney November 15th, 2012 at 9:42 am
    JS, that’s fallacy in logic to derive from blake’s statement that not signing a 100 mil dollar man equating to Montero being worth that same amount.

    It’s perfectly logical. The argument was to spend 100 million for Darvish instead of trading Montero for someone who might be as good and cost almost nothing. Remember, Pineda had actually pitched well in the majors, Darvish, while he looked excellent in Japan, had not pitched in the majors yet, so he was no guarantee either.

  52. MTU November 15th, 2012 at 9:48 am

    Cashman takes his marching orders from Hal and Co.

    He is not the one who decides the budget.

    I do agree that he could be improved upon though.

  53. blake November 15th, 2012 at 9:48 am

    Laird was probably the best back up out there ….he’s gone now. The Yanks are backing themselves into a corner where it’s looking like they are going to have to over pay a catcher

  54. blake November 15th, 2012 at 9:50 am

    “It’s perfectly logical. The argument was to spend 100 million for Darvish instead of trading Montero for someone who might be as good and cost almost nothing”

    The argument was that 9 AAV Darvish + league Minimum Montero had a good chance to be worth more than league minimum Pineda by himself .

  55. MTU November 15th, 2012 at 9:51 am

    Cash-

    The Island is well stocked (or stacked) in all respects.

    So. No worries.

    :)

  56. MTU November 15th, 2012 at 9:53 am

    It’s another hike day today so I’ve got to go.

    You all have a great day.

    Play nice.

  57. Against All Odds November 15th, 2012 at 9:53 am

    He may not throw 95 + again or be very durable

    ——————————

    So they gave up their one chip for a pitcher that might not be what they thought they were getting.

  58. blake November 15th, 2012 at 9:54 am

    Whether you agreed with the trade or not….it’s hard to argue with the fact that money had a big part in driving the decision they made……that’s fine….but if you’re going to let money drive decision making then you had better make smart choices and most of the decisions you make had better work……

  59. MTU November 15th, 2012 at 9:55 am

    AAO-

    That is a possibility. A distinct possibility.

    We have to hope for the best.

    We’ll find out soon enough.

  60. longtimefan November 15th, 2012 at 9:57 am

    Yankee MVP, easy Jeter. At this point in his career not the best player on the team but very consistant, plays hard all the time, hustles and sets an example for other players, Cano may be the better hitter but it stops there.

  61. Cashmoney November 15th, 2012 at 9:59 am

    JS, two things. 1, Montero is not worth a 100 mil dollars because he is unproven and has accrue zero years of service. it’s impossible to ignore that from a factual and logical stand point.
    2. you might draw some semblance of equivalency btw Darvish and Pineda. but Darvish dominant the japanese league for a prolong period of time, more importantly with stuff and repertoire that is rarely seen in that league. The assessment on Darvish coming to the states was not if he was going to good but how good as compare to a guy who had half of dominant mlb season. I don’t think you can compare the two in any fashion until Pineda has garner enough body of evidence to warrant a comparison. hence, equating two with the same amt money earning power at that juncture of their respective career is folly.

  62. Cashmoney November 15th, 2012 at 10:04 am

    let’s put it this way, both Montero and Pineda were more or less projects at the time of trade. with Pineda offering a bit more degree certainty because of his one year mlb service. neither would would have warranted 100 mil contract if they were FA at the time. hence, comparing to Darvish is folly.

  63. chicken little November 15th, 2012 at 10:04 am

    The Yanks’ lack of aggressiveness is becoming rather alarming. There are some good players out there that can probably be had for reasonable deals. The longer the Yanks wait on them for Kuroda, Mo, etc … the less likely any of these players are left when the Yanks are ready to make their move, which will lead to overpaying for crap. Perfect example of this is several years back the Yanks were deperate for a set-up man. Cash wanted to let the market set itself. Before he could react all the good releivers signed and he was forced to sign Farnsworth to a four year deal.

    I find it difficult to beleive that the Yanks can’t multitask or that there isn’t enough money to get solid position players for one year while also resigning Kuroda and Mo. Kuroda and Mo are big boys. I don’t think a relationship will be harmed if Cash simply told them to make a decision quickly.

  64. jacksquat November 15th, 2012 at 10:11 am

    That one chip now has another team not thinking he is a catcher (they drafted a top catcher and are interested in Martin), and so far has big problems vs rhp. So right now he’s useful as a 1/3 time DH.

  65. Shame Spencer November 15th, 2012 at 10:13 am

    …Did we do anything yet?

    Is it still early?

  66. Against All Odds November 15th, 2012 at 10:14 am

    brianlopez22 November 15th, 2012 at 9:34 am

    Against All Odds,

    That is the thing people fail to remember.

    Cano was not the highest of highly touted prospects.
    Cashman tried hard to move Cano many times.

    Cashman is a terrible evaluator of young talent.
    He has dessimated the farm system that Stick Michael helped build.
    He is only good for buying FAs and finding bottom of the barrel 75 year old veterans to come off the bench.

    ———————

    Cano was in three different trades that we know of. There are probably more.

    I will give him credit for improving the farm because it was a barren wasteland and but the problem with the farm is the lack of depth. Montero gets traded and their goes the one impact bat wtf. I think it was Chip that brought it up a while back. With the Yankees it’s never just here are our prospects it’s always a wave: Generation Trey, Reliever, catchers, outfielders, the Bs, and now the kids in A ball.

  67. Shame Spencer November 15th, 2012 at 10:14 am

    So right now he’s useful as a 1/3 time DH.

    ——————

    Which is still more useful than Pineda at this point… but really, lets just go back to worrying about who will actually be our catcher. Talking about Pineda being traded for only to not contribute at all is giving me the sads.

    I’ll keep my fingers crossed Campos has seen his last surgery.

  68. The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 10:17 am

    With the Yankees it’s never just here are our prospects it’s always a wave: Generation Trey, Reliever, catchers, outfielders, the Bs, and now the kids in A ball.

    ****

    Fans are just as guilty of liking the wave packages – we even give them nicknames like Dealin’ Dellin Betances – - – -

  69. MTU November 15th, 2012 at 10:17 am

    Shame-

    As far as I know Campos has not had surgery.

    He was shut down but no surgery as of yet.

  70. Against All Odds November 15th, 2012 at 10:18 am

    jacksquat November 15th, 2012 at 9:41 am

    I think the trying to trade Cano thing is being exaggerated. If Cashman “begged teams to take him” and tried to trade him “many times”, then did all the other teams in baseball also not evaluate Cano correctly by not taking him?

    Yeah, touche.

    ————————————–

    Well in the Randy Johnson trade the D’backs had Uggla already in the minors.

  71. Shame Spencer November 15th, 2012 at 10:18 am

    Cash doesn’t need to be a good talent evaluator… he needs get Hal to hire them and (preferably) listen to them.

  72. Cashmoney November 15th, 2012 at 10:20 am

    shame, i don’t think Campos has had a surgery. but consider volatility of a young pitcher with elbow? woes, i won’t preclude that as a possibility. The very skeptical side of me thinking the Yankees decided to rest him instead of opting for surgery. because 3 prong attack of 3 of your best young pitchers going under the knife might be too much for cash and fo to handle.

  73. Shame Spencer November 15th, 2012 at 10:21 am

    MTU – Ohhhh, I must have just gotten ahead of myself with Campos lol. He didn’t pitch very much this year, though, correct? I remember something was up with his elbow..

  74. The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 10:22 am

    Cano may have been part of trades in the early part of the last decade – but say this – Cashman is the one that promoted Cano in May of 05 to replace Womack – that stance goes both ways and you have to acknowledge both sides of history – - – -

  75. tucker November 15th, 2012 at 10:23 am

    It would be nice if SABR-types could come up with a stat that shows consistency. As earlier posters pointed out, cano had the best season consistency wise and is the Yanks best current player. But he was not the most consistent. It would be nice to have a stat that showed consistency or contribution to the most wins.

    I also do not give closers a lot of credit, but Soriano sure saved this team’s bacon a lot. Sure seemed like he closed a lot of one-run games this year. Lots of games the Yanks barely won.

  76. MTU November 15th, 2012 at 10:23 am

    Identifying prospects is an inexact science at best.

    Unless you are able to grab the top few.

    The Yankees rarely get such opportunites.

    There are 10, maybe 100, Kevin Russo’s for every Cano.

    Even Cano was not particularly well thought of in the Minors.

    There are very, very few Trouts, Strassburgs, or Harpers.

    It’s a #’s game More than anything else.

    Throw 10 at the wall and hope 1 sticks.

  77. Shame Spencer November 15th, 2012 at 10:24 am

    Thanks Cash – That might not be a bad assessment. The Yankees have done some strange medical stuff over the last couple of years and I wonder if they’re cutting budgets there as well. The Gardner thing was mind boggling. Some of the Alex stuff made no sense. Hughes and Pineda weren’t evaluated properly at all. It’s a bit disconcerting. I remember when I mentioned it early last year regarding Gardner Pat M and GB jumped on me because I’m not a doctor. I may not be, but I know poor management when I see it. We’ve had a few guys with injuries that haven’t been managed very well over the last 3-4 seasons.

    Reminds me of the Mets.

    And no one likes to be reminded of the Mets.

  78. luis November 15th, 2012 at 10:25 am

    Good morning,

    To be fair, I think the moment Cashman was given control over baseball operations he did a fine job at rebuilding the farm in general terms, taking in to account the drafting position they were at (Oppenheimer should get the credit, but Cashman backed him up).

    The problem was and is what they did/do with that talent. Obviously he is not a good talent evaluator, and is a poor executor of the broad strategy.

  79. Shame Spencer November 15th, 2012 at 10:25 am

    Throw 10 at the wall and hope 1 sticks.

    ——————–

    We’re gonna need like 3-5 to stick…soon :(

  80. MTU November 15th, 2012 at 10:27 am

    Shame-

    Let’s hope your woman’s intuition is wrong this time.

    But yes, he was shutdown early due to elbow inflammation.

    It may or may not be a precursor to TJS.

    Banuelos had TJ. Maybe you were thinking of him ?

    Anyway, have a good one. I’ve got to go lose some poundage.

    :)

  81. Against All Odds November 15th, 2012 at 10:28 am

    The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 10:17 am

    With the Yankees it’s never just here are our prospects it’s always a wave: Generation Trey, Reliever, catchers, outfielders, the Bs, and now the kids in A ball.

    ****

    Fans are just as guilty of liking the wave packages – we even give them nicknames like Dealin’ Dellin Betances – – – -

    ————

    They are the ones that promote the waves. It was Cashman that put three rookies into the rotation in one season.

  82. MTU November 15th, 2012 at 10:29 am

    Shame-

    That’s a bad bet IMO but who knows. maybe we get lucky.

    ;)

    Luis-

    Spot on. The development certainly needed improvement.

    Not getting the full return. That’s where Patterson came in.

    Later.

  83. Against All Odds November 15th, 2012 at 10:30 am

    Obviously he is not a good talent evaluator

    —————————

    You know before he got injured the debate was who would go number 1 Price or Brackman. – Cashman yrs ago

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-DeOG.....nfused.jpg

  84. MTU November 15th, 2012 at 10:31 am

    Too bad Towers didn’t stay.

    He is. At least Pitchingwise.

    Hendry doesn’t seem to be much help ?

  85. The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 10:32 am

    They are the ones that promote the waves. It was Cashman that put three rookies into the rotation in one season.

    *******

    I seem to remember sites like RAB running with the names the Killer Bs – IMO it is as much a product of fans who want to be amateur scouts and fan sites that fuel this as well – - – -I think RAB even had T-shirts – - – -

  86. Against All Odds November 15th, 2012 at 10:34 am

    The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 10:22 am

    Cano may have been part of trades in the early part of the last decade – but say this – Cashman is the one that promoted Cano in May of 05 to replace Womack – that stance goes both ways and you have to acknowledge both sides of history – – – -

    —————

    He did promote him but Cano was promoted based on the fact that Womack was done and they felt Bernie could no longer play in the OF. He wasn’t promoted because they felt the kid was ready to assume the role of 2nd base for the Yankees. It was more so hey it’s too early to go get a 2nd basemen so why not

  87. DONNYBROOK November 15th, 2012 at 10:36 am

    There’s a scene in “The Natural”, where The Judge is attempting to buy-off Roy Hobbs. Hobbs tells The Judge, “They’ll win without me”. The Judge immediately responds, “Without you, they lost 3 straight”. The same injury\3 loss scenario, was reinacted vs Detroit in the ALCS, and proves Jeter to be the Yankee MVP. It also showed Cano is NO Leader, and therefore does NOT merit a multi year contract at better than $20 Mill per. TRADE CANO NOW.

  88. Against All Odds November 15th, 2012 at 10:36 am

    They did have t-shirts :D

  89. Cashmoney November 15th, 2012 at 10:36 am

    I think Mike Axisa likes the Wu Tang… me like killer bees, it’s catchy name. we got 2 bees left!

  90. The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 10:37 am

    Against All Odds November 15th, 2012 at 10:34 am
    The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 10:22 am

    Cano may have been part of trades in the early part of the last decade – but say this – Cashman is the one that promoted Cano in May of 05 to replace Womack – that stance goes both ways and you have to acknowledge both sides of history – – – -

    —————

    He did promote him but Cano was promoted based on the fact that Womack was done and they felt Bernie could no longer play in the OF. He wasn’t promoted because they felt the kid was ready to assume the role of 2nd base for the Yankees. It was more so hey it’s too early to go get a 2nd basemen so why not

    ******

    Look – you can try to rationalize it – but he was promoted – so was Wang – they were good moves and he gets the credit for it – the above speaks more of an agenda to fit everything into a certain pov – bashing Cashman on everything and not giving credit due is getting tiresome and strains credibility sometimes – - – -

  91. tucker November 15th, 2012 at 10:40 am

    On earlier post, meant to say Cano DID NOT have best season consistency wise, but he ended up with the best stats and he is the team’s best player.

  92. The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 10:40 am

    And Cashman got Cano on a team friendly contract through Cano’s prime years in his 20s – - – - -look Cashman has made mistakes like all GMs – but he has done some good as well – - – -

  93. Shame Spencer November 15th, 2012 at 10:41 am

    @Buster_ESPN

    The way the negotiating stars are aligning, B.J. Upton is moving into the vortex of a Braves-Phillies competition for a center fielder.

  94. Shame Spencer November 15th, 2012 at 10:43 am

    The point though is Cashman isn’t a talent evaluator and shouldn’t be criticized for not being one. What he and the rest of the FO should be criticized for is not recognizing they need good talent evaluators in house. My guess would be they cost to much, but my understanding is that they never had great ones to begin with, even when Cash was all about the farm. So……. again: mismanagement.

  95. Against All Odds November 15th, 2012 at 10:44 am

    The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 10:37 am

    Against All Odds November 15th, 2012 at 10:34 am
    The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 10:22 am

    Cano may have been part of trades in the early part of the last decade – but say this – Cashman is the one that promoted Cano in May of 05 to replace Womack – that stance goes both ways and you have to acknowledge both sides of history – – – -

    —————

    He did promote him but Cano was promoted based on the fact that Womack was done and they felt Bernie could no longer play in the OF. He wasn’t promoted because they felt the kid was ready to assume the role of 2nd base for the Yankees. It was more so hey it’s too early to go get a 2nd basemen so why not

    ******

    Look – you can try to rationalize it – but he was promoted – so was Wang – they were good moves and he gets the credit for it – the above speaks more of an agenda to fit everything into a certain pov – bashing Cashman on everything and not giving credit due is getting tiresome and strains credibility sometimes – – – -

    ————

    Not rationalizing it…it’s a fact. It was too early to make a deal, Womack was finished, Bernie had declined and they said why not. He gets credit for holding onto Cano and Wang at the deadline when many ppl felt he would trade them to the Ms for Ibanez because they needed the outfield help.

  96. Shame Spencer November 15th, 2012 at 10:45 am

    @KenDavidoff

    There was much grumbling among #MLB owners concerning the #BlueJays-#Marlins trade. http://bit.ly/RF2wag

  97. blake November 15th, 2012 at 10:45 am

    “And Cashman got Cano on a team friendly contract through Cano’s prime years in his 20s – – – – -look Cashman has made mistakes like all GMs – but he has done some good as well – – – -”

    Cashman is good at certain things and Id like tinder him stay….but they should also consider adding another voice who has experience doing what ownership is wanting to do…..Cashman and pretty much the entire FO has BJ experience operating on a budget like this……

  98. blake November 15th, 2012 at 10:46 am

    @Ken_Rosenthal: #Royals poised for a blockbuster? Column: http://t.co/FM6JZoho

  99. Mike Ri November 15th, 2012 at 10:47 am

    @Ken_Rosenthal: #Royals poised for a blockbuster? Column: http://t.co/FM6JZoho

    —————–
    interesting

  100. DONNYBROOK November 15th, 2012 at 10:47 am

    MLB refuses to allow Mark Cuban to buy a team, yet OK’s numb-nuts like that owner in Miami. Can you imagine Cuban owning the Yanks? Day 1, Cashman goes.

  101. blake November 15th, 2012 at 10:49 am

    “Seattle covets Royals DH Billy Butler, according to one rival executive, and conceivably would part with young, high-end starting pitching to gain control of him for three years. But the Royals, sources say, still aren’t sure the rest of their offense is potent enough to move Butler, not when first baseman Eric Hosmer is coming off a disappointing season and center fielder Lorenzo Cain appeared in only 61 games due to a left groin injury.”

    From Rosethal’s article linked above…..

  102. The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 10:50 am

    The Mariners covet Billy Butler and would conceivably part with young, high-end pitching to acquire him. Butler is under contract through 2015, though the Royals are unsure if they have enough offense to move him right now.
    The Rays like top prospect Wil Myers, though the Royals are conflicted about moving him even for a pitcher like Jeremy Hellickson or Matt Moore.

    Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#uREH5IfjjSvtpfQq.99

    *****

    Can a Butler and Montero coexist in Settle? And why are the Mariners looking for another DH?

    And if Matt Moore does not get you Myers – forget it – Royals are not trading partners for Yanks – - – -

  103. The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 10:52 am

    blake November 15th, 2012 at 10:45 am
    “And Cashman got Cano on a team friendly contract through Cano’s prime years in his 20s – – – – -look Cashman has made mistakes like all GMs – but he has done some good as well – – – -”

    Cashman is good at certain things and Id like tinder him stay….but they should also consider adding another voice who has experience doing what ownership is wanting to do…..Cashman and pretty much the entire FO has BJ experience operating on a budget like this……

    ******

    Very good and fair point – - – -

  104. Shame Spencer November 15th, 2012 at 10:52 am

    @DKnobler

    Yankees still want Kuroda, but now add Angels to list of interested teams, @JonHeymanCBS reports. http://cbsprt.co/QJ3m97

    —————-

    Jesus, Mary and Joseph… (yes, we will need all three to get us through this..)

  105. Against All Odds November 15th, 2012 at 10:52 am

    DONNYBROOK November 15th, 2012 at 10:47 am

    MLB refuses to allow Mark Cuban to buy a team, yet OK’s numb-nuts like that owner in Miami.

    ——————

    Also Frank Mccourt

  106. blake November 15th, 2012 at 10:52 am

    @DKnobler: Yankees still want Kuroda, but now add Angels to list of interested teams, @JonHeymanCBS reports. http://t.co/ulypS27C

  107. Shame Spencer November 15th, 2012 at 10:53 am

    @DKnobler

    Could the Red Sox go for Josh Hamilton? @JonHeymanCBS says it’s possible. http://cbsprt.co/TN5V7l

  108. DONNYBROOK November 15th, 2012 at 10:53 am

    I do Not see Tampa dangling Matt Moore. Too smart.

  109. Shame Spencer November 15th, 2012 at 10:54 am

    “But Yankees president Randy Levine, the highest-ranking team official in attendance because of the absence of managing general partner Hal Steinbrenner, passed on the opportunity to rip the Marlins.”

    I wonder where Hal is….

  110. Mike Ri November 15th, 2012 at 10:54 am

    @DKnobler

    Could the Red Sox go for Josh Hamilton? @JonHeymanCBS says it?s possible. http://cbsprt.co/TN5V7l

    ———–

    Man …..

  111. blake November 15th, 2012 at 10:54 am

    “Can a Butler and Montero coexist in Settle? And why are the Mariners looking for another DH?”

    I would assume that if they acquired Butler that either they’d move Montero to 1b or trade him

  112. blake November 15th, 2012 at 10:55 am

    I don’t think they’d trade Moore …..but Shields Nd Hellickson maybe

  113. The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 10:58 am

    More worried re: Kuroda now – - – -

    pros/cons of Marcum?

  114. Shame Spencer November 15th, 2012 at 10:59 am

    The Rays make those moves though… I generally agree they probably won’t move Moore, but it also wouldn’t surprise me a bit. The Rays tend to be a crafty bunch (those b*stards).

  115. Against All Odds November 15th, 2012 at 10:59 am

    Shame Spencer November 15th, 2012 at 10:54 am

    “But Yankees president Randy Levine, the highest-ranking team official in attendance because of the absence of managing general partner Hal Steinbrenner, passed on the opportunity to rip the Marlins.”

    I wonder where Hal is….

    ————————

    Probably back at home. I don’t think he would miss the meeting if it wasn’t serious.

  116. Shame Spencer November 15th, 2012 at 10:59 am

    Watch the M’s flip Montero for someone actually useful… effin’ A.

  117. Shame Spencer November 15th, 2012 at 11:00 am

    @Buster_ESPN

    Good morning, folks — today’s column is posted. http://espn.go.com/mlb/blog/_/.....unrest-mlb … Why execs believe others might follow the Marlins’ path in the future.

  118. The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 11:01 am

    Shame Spencer November 15th, 2012 at 10:59 am
    The Rays make those moves though… I generally agree they probably won’t move Moore, but it also wouldn’t surprise me a bit. The Rays tend to be a crafty bunch (those b*stards).

    *****

    The Rays are also prone to mistakes – - – could have had Buster Posey – - – -

  119. The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 11:04 am

    Shame Spencer November 15th, 2012 at 11:00 am
    @Buster_ESPN

    Good morning, folks — today’s column is posted. http://espn.go.com/mlb/blog/_/…..unrest-mlb … Why execs believe others might follow the Marlins’ path in the future.

    *****

    And the Red Sox – remember – the Sox quit/gave up/failed first – - – -

  120. blake November 15th, 2012 at 11:09 am

    “I wonder where Hal is….”

    Swimming in his money bin….where else?

  121. jacksquat November 15th, 2012 at 11:11 am

    Cano was hitting very well in the minors in 2005 when he was called up. It’s not like he was called up purely out of desperation.

  122. AAA November 15th, 2012 at 11:12 am

    And if Matt Moore does not get you Myers

    ========================

    Sure he does. You see Matt Moore’s contract?

  123. The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 11:14 am

    blake November 15th, 2012 at 11:09 am
    “I wonder where Hal is….”

    Swimming in his money bin….where else?

    ********

    Naah – Hal is much more practical:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1dghFVScME

  124. The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 11:15 am

    AAA November 15th, 2012 at 11:12 am
    And if Matt Moore does not get you Myers

    ========================

    Sure he does. You see Matt Moore’s contract?

    ******

    Take that up with KC’s GM Drayton Moore – - – -

  125. blake November 15th, 2012 at 11:15 am

    Hal probably has converted all his cash to gold

  126. AAA November 15th, 2012 at 11:16 am

    And the Red Sox – remember – the Sox quit/gave up/failed first – – – -

    =============================

    This is a bogus refrain for a couple reasons. First of all, the Red Sox didn’t jettison onerous contracts after being duplicitous to the state/county/city enroute to getting a stadium built for them on taxpayer dollars. Secondly, they’ll almost certainly reinvest a large chunk of the money back into the onfield product.

  127. blake November 15th, 2012 at 11:17 am

    Dayton Moore wouldn’t definitely trade Myers for Matt Moorr and if he didn’t he’s crazy….. I don’t think Tampa would make that deal though with Shields about to hit free agency and Price getting more and more expensive.

    The Rays will use either Hellickson or Shields to get a bat

  128. The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 11:18 am

    AAA November 15th, 2012 at 11:16 am
    And the Red Sox – remember – the Sox quit/gave up/failed first – – – -

    =============================

    This is a bogus refrain for a couple reasons. First of all, the Red Sox didn’t jettison onerous contracts after being duplicitous to the state/county/city enroute to getting a stadium built for them on taxpayer dollars. Secondly, they’ll almost certainly reinvest a large chunk of the money back into the onfield product.

    ********

    Naaah – Red Sox quit on their season and their fans – their reasons may be different – but they gave up – it is also debateable how much they put back in with John Henry’s net worth taking a dive since 2008.

  129. Shame Spencer November 15th, 2012 at 11:19 am

    Secondly, they’ll almost certainly reinvest a large chunk of the money back into the onfield product.

    —————-

    This is what I thought too but we’ll see.. that tidbit about Henry going from a net worth of over a billion dollars to $100 million was verrrrry interesting.

  130. AAA November 15th, 2012 at 11:19 am

    Take that up with KC’s GM Drayton Moore – – –

    ========================

    Once he hears he has Matt Moore for 7 prime years at $35M, he’s driving Myers to the airport.

  131. blake November 15th, 2012 at 11:19 am

    The Rays are gonna have to trade Price at some point and they might do it earlier than most think to get max return…..that’s how they stay competitive….they have to constantly turn over assets to stay ahead if the game……

  132. The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 11:19 am

    blake November 15th, 2012 at 11:17 am
    Dayton Moore wouldn’t definitely trade Myers for Matt Moorr and if he didn’t he’s crazy….. I

    ******

    Take it up with Rosenthal – apparently Moore is not rushing to the phone to make the deal:

    The Rays like top prospect Wil Myers, though the Royals are conflicted about moving him even for a pitcher like Jeremy Hellickson or Matt Moore.
    Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#c0uczUWYgP5JxME4.99

  133. The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 11:20 am

    AAA November 15th, 2012 at 11:19 am
    Take that up with KC’s GM Drayton Moore – – –

    ========================

    Once he hears he has Matt Moore for 7 prime years at $35M, he’s driving Myers to the airport.

    ********

    He has:

    The Rays like top prospect Wil Myers, though the Royals are conflicted about moving him even for a pitcher like Jeremy Hellickson or Matt Moore.
    Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#c0uczUWYgP5JxME4.99

  134. Against All Odds November 15th, 2012 at 11:23 am

    . It’s not like he was called up purely out of desperation.

    ———————–

    A large part of it was desperation they had no one else to turn to.

  135. AAA November 15th, 2012 at 11:23 am

    The Rays like top prospect Wil Myers, though the Royals are conflicted about moving him even for a pitcher like Jeremy Hellickson or Matt Moore.

    ======================

    Rays wouldn’t do it for Moore anyway. Hellickson? They’d certainly have to give that a good look and probably should do it if offered.

  136. The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 11:24 am

    blake November 15th, 2012 at 11:19 am
    The Rays are gonna have to trade Price at some point and they might do it earlier than most think to get max return…..that’s how they stay competitive….they have to constantly turn over assets to stay ahead if the game……

    ******

    But have they really done that? Sure they have traded Garza – but who else? Surely not Edwin Jackson for Matt Joyce – that is not what you are thinking of. They did not trade B.J. Upton. No – the full wealth of their depth has procured via high draft picks and astute late round draft picks such as Matt Moore. The Rays have yet to deal a major piece of multiple pieces over and over except for Garza. That is not a track record of how they stay competitive – if anything – they are still living off of so many high draft positions – - – -

  137. The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 11:27 am

    Against All Odds November 15th, 2012 at 11:23 am
    . It’s not like he was called up purely out of desperation.

    ———————–

    A large part of it was desperation they had no one else to turn to.

    ****

    yes yes and it was desperation that the Yanks turned to Gehrig when Pipp went down – - – -Cashman still made the move – could have made a trade or seen if there was someone else available – and ditto Wang that same season – as well as the crazy Aaron Small and Chacon pay off – - – -

  138. The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 11:33 am

    It appears this Greg Bird is getting a lot of sleeper love for 2013 – - – -

  139. AAA November 15th, 2012 at 11:38 am

    Sure they have traded Garza – but who else?

    =========================

    Traded Huff to get Zobrist in ’06
    Traded Delmon to get Garza in ’07

    Both guys were fairly important to their success of 08-12.

    Other thing they’ve been rather astute at over this stretch is cobbling together a bullpen of undesirables and misfit toys each season.

  140. The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 11:46 am

    AAA November 15th, 2012 at 11:38 am
    Sure they have traded Garza – but who else?

    =========================

    Traded Huff to get Zobrist in ’06
    Traded Delmon to get Garza in ’07

    Both guys were fairly important to their success of 08-12.

    Other thing they’ve been rather astute at over this stretch is cobbling together a bullpen of undesirables and misfit toys each season.

    ******

    The original post and response was that the Rays trade guys close to FA and receive a treasure trove in return. Delmon Young trade for Garza was a young player for young player trade – both of which were far away from FA.

  141. The Return of Stoneburner November 15th, 2012 at 11:47 am

    AAA November 15th, 2012 at 11:38 am
    Sure they have traded Garza – but who else?

    =========================

    Traded Huff to get Zobrist in ’06
    Traded Delmon to get Garza in ’07

    Both guys were fairly important to their success of 08-12.

    Other thing they’ve been rather astute at over this stretch is cobbling together a bullpen of undesirables and misfit toys each season.

    *******

    Rays have been great but they have warts – see passing on Buster Posey – - – -

  142. Against All Odds November 15th, 2012 at 11:57 am

    Posey on the Rays would have been scary. I guess why the warts get overlooked is because they have had success in other places. That is probably why the fans take so many shots at the Yankees because they have made strides in terms of development but the success isn’t what many fans hoped for. If Hughes and Joba reach their ceiling would anyone be upset about the Bs going down or Pineda getting hurt. But I guess someone can say if Hughes and Joba lived up to the praise Pineda would probably stil be with the Ms

  143. Duh Innings II November 15th, 2012 at 11:57 am

    Jeter was the MVP. He did what he did at his age which is unheard of.

    I’m glad the Yanks didn’t give oldass frontrunner Torii Hunter two years at $13M a year.

    Why not go with Mason Williams LF / Gardner CF / Tyler Austin RF now (trade Granderson)?

    The Yanks could re-sign Martin and Ibanez for this starting nine:

    Gardner
    Jeter
    Rodriguez
    Cano
    Teixiera
    Ibanez DH
    Martin
    Austin
    Williams

    A-Rod’s the only old guy you could say will suck as Jeter is still at the top of his game at least offensively and Ibanez is a nice DH for his age and cost.

    Also, the money saved from starting farm kids a year sooner could be used to sign not only Joakim Soria but to re-sign Rafael Soriano for two years for hands down the best bullpen in MLB in Rivera/Robertson/Soria/Soriano/Aardsma/Logan/Rapada.

    With that bullpen the Yanks could go with Sabathia/Hughes/Pettitte/Nova/Phelps.

    The Yanks could trade Granderson for a starter or a hitter.

    The Yanks could always get an outfielder and/or a starting pitcher for the stretch run.

  144. AAA November 15th, 2012 at 11:59 am

    The original post and response was that the Rays trade guys close to FA and receive a treasure trove in return. Delmon Young trade for Garza was a young player for young player trade – both of which were far away from FA.

    ============================

    Fair enough. Huff deal was a trade ahead of FA one, but Garza/Young was clearly different, yet astute. On the other hand though, we’ve seen Crawford and now Upton go to FA, so your point is taken.

  145. blake November 15th, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    I would almost guarantee that Price is traded within the next two years…..unless the Rays drastically change the way they operate or get a new stadium magically then they may not even be able to afford his arbitration raises much less a FA contract for him

  146. blake November 15th, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    “The original post and response was that the Rays trade guys close to FA and receive a treasure trove nin return. Delmon Young trade for Garza was a young player for young player trade – both of which were far away from FA.”

    Actually I only said they have to constantly turn over assets to make new assets……sometimes that’s turning players into draft picks and sometimes it’s trading big chips like Price and Garza for big returns.

  147. AAA November 15th, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    Rays have been great but they have warts – see passing on Buster Posey – – – -

    =============================

    Sure. They’ve never been a particularly strong offensive team in general. This nice 5 year run is clearly built around strong pitching and average offense. Obviously, Posey rather than Beckham could have proven a game changer for the Rays.

  148. blake November 15th, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    @KenDavidoff: Why Torii Hunter’s signing with the #Tigers is one more #Yankees tell. http://t.co/bksW1845

  149. NYYanksFan November 15th, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    Jeter at his best isn’t good enough to carry a team and Cano didn’t play consistently enough so I’m going with Kuroda for team MVP.

  150. blake November 15th, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    Even the best teams screw up in the draft……how many teams passed on Mike Trout?


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