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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Famliar feeling in the middle of November

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 16, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Seems quiet, right? Maybe a little too quiet. A little too quiet for a team that has significant holes to fill, and certainly too quiet for a team that’s being written off as unwilling or unable to make significant moves outside of re-signing some of its own players.

Surely it’s not supposed to be this quiet on November 16.

“It’s too early,” Hal Steinbrenner said on exactly this date last year. “It wouldn’t surprise me if we did (make a major move). It wouldn’t surprise me if we didn’t. Hate to be vague, but it is mid November.”

I know the wait is excruciating, but this isn’t particularly unusual. Last offseason and this offseason began on the exact same date. Granted, this year’s schedule is a little different, but it’s a solid point of comparison.

On this date last year, the Yankees hadn’t re-signed Freddy Garcia, hadn’t signed Hiroki Kuroda, hadn’t traded for Michael Pineda, figured out their DH platoon, hadn’t settled on a contract with Russell Martin, and hadn’t heard whether Andy Pettitte would pitch again. In fact, at this time last year, the Yankees most significant moves were still two months away.

Here’s what Brian Cashman said exactly a year ago today: “That process is so early. It’s not necessarily, hey, we want this, can we do this today? I think it’s more everybody feeling out everybody else. I’ve had a hard time getting dollar figures from agents, to be honest. … It’s not like I’m opposed to making trades, but it’s been easier not to make trades based on the asking prices so far. It’s not like I don’t want to — I’d like to do something — but I’m not going to do something at these current costs.”

It’s easy to imagine both Steinbrenner and Cashman saying those exact same things today. I understand that the new budget restrictions have everyone a little bit on edge, but for the moment, keep in mind that it’s pretty common for things to be quiet right now.

Associated Press photo

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139 Responses to “Famliar feeling in the middle of November”

  1. MTU November 16th, 2012 at 9:05 am

    Nice try Chad but I think we entered uncharted waters this year.

    So yeah, IMO it’s different from previous times.

    Both qualitatively as well as quantitatively.

    I’d love to be wrong.

    :)

  2. MTU November 16th, 2012 at 9:07 am

    I do entertain the fantasy of a big trade though.

  3. Mike Ri November 16th, 2012 at 9:11 am

    Good Luck Cashman !

  4. MTU November 16th, 2012 at 9:14 am

    Time to walk the Mops.

  5. Yankee Trader November 16th, 2012 at 9:15 am

    This year is different. They already knew the parameters of the new CBA agreement. Last year they didn’t have as many important holes to fill.

    Their biggest concern was CC’s opt out and that was solved within the 5 day post WS, window. They didin’t have 5 key players hitting FA like they do this season-Cano, Granderson, Hughes, Joba, Logan.

    Last offseason, they made the mistake of not trying to sign another RF’er, knowing that Swisher would probably seek greener pastuers.

    The cost cutting already started during the trading deadline. No interest in Hanley Ramirez’ right hand bat. Instead make the Mariners pay the bulk of Ichiro’s deal. Ichiro turned out to be a steal, but the Yankees still needed another big bat.

    I don’t have my hopes up that the Yankees will solve all the important holes they must fill by waiting for leftovers! Waiting for Pettitte to make up his mind. Hoping that Jeter will still be able to play SS. Hoping Rivera can be MO again!

  6. PacoDooley November 16th, 2012 at 9:17 am

    If you think we are in unchartered territory this year, just wait until next year. At least this year they can sign some hefty one year deals (like offering Kuroda $17m for one season). Next year all bets are off.

  7. Villa Nova-Ya November 16th, 2012 at 9:17 am

    Chad -

    Thanks for some perspective.

    Seriously the winter meetings haven’t even happened yet, right?

    I mean, I do think we’ll see the Yankees still filling the crevices with one-year veterans. But we’ll have to wait to see what happens with the more pressing needs. How they go about filling those will be interesting, more so than the when. Though it’s tough when it looks like nothing is happenng.

    To be a fly on the wall….

  8. Yankee Trader November 16th, 2012 at 9:25 am

    Paco-

    Will they sign those hefty deals and pay their 42.5% on threshold of 178M.Given that the payroll could be 200M, the LT bite at this coming seasons end would be $31.5M.

    If Kuroda, Pettitte and Rivera plus Martin are back, then the bench and RF and bullpen additions will be minor leaguers, older FA’s, on cheap contracts, unless they trade some of their FA’s, coming up at the end of 2013.

  9. Yankee Trader November 16th, 2012 at 9:32 am

    It’s looking like BJ Upton might be signing with the Braves, after visiting them the other day.

    Bourn-High on Nats radar screen?

    Swisher-any rumors on teams keen interest on him?

  10. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 9:36 am

    I think it’s more everybody feeling out everybody else. I’ve had a hard time getting dollar figures from agents, to be honest.

    Here’s the problem if he tried to spin that this year: Players are signing which means agents are quite willing to discuss dollar figures with GMs. And three of the players that have signed are players that the Yankees could have used to various degrees (Hunter, Ross, Izturis)

  11. Yankee Trader November 16th, 2012 at 9:37 am

    Have to go for a while.

    Until later.

    Randy Levine is hopeful that both Kuroda and Ichiro Suzuki return next season.

    “We really hope Kuroda returns next season and Ichiro had a really great year. We are continuing to speak to both their agents. They are both equally important to us,” said Levine.

    Source: Sponichi 11/16/2012

    ===

    According to Nikkan Sports, the Arizona Diamondbacks are interested in acquiring both Kyuji Fujikawa and Hiroyuki Nakajima.

    Fujikawa got a tour of Chase Field and the spring training facilities on Thursday. He will also visit the Dodgers, Angels, and a team on the East Coast. The Rangers do not appear to be on his current list of places to visit.

    Source: Nikkan Sports 11/16/2012, Sponichi 11/16/2012, Sanspo 11/16/2012, Daily Sports 11/16/2012

    ————————–

    The Softbank Hawks have reportedly announced that they have signed Ryota Igarashi.

    Daily Sports notes that the Hawks have scheduled a press conference for Saturday.

    Source: Sponichi 11/16/2012, Daily Sports 11/16/2012

  12. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 9:38 am

    Going on the content of the last thread… it isn’t about what the Yankees are trying to do, it’s about the fact that they are literally in the worst possible position to do what they are trying to do at this moment in time lol.

  13. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 9:39 am

    (continuation of my post above)….

    So given that Hunter, Ross and Izturis are guys the Yankees could have used, and given that all three have signed, then it indicates that not only were their agents willing to give dollar figures to interested parties, they were willing to sign quickly and not get into protracted negotiations. So if Cashman tries to say that he can’t get dollar figures from agents, the question has to be asked, “Have you even tried?”

  14. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 9:39 am

    Yankee Trader November 16th, 2012 at 9:32 am

    It’s looking like BJ Upton might be signing with the Braves, after visiting them the other day.

    ——————-

    He just met with the Phillies apparently.

    I think Swish could be a great fit there as well.. Swish has a big market.

  15. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 9:42 am

    The big problem, as I see it, is that the guys the Yankees are targeting (at least right now) are guys who aren’t sure they even want to play anymore:

    Andy
    Mo
    Ibanez
    Chavez

    They’re all guys who have, at least to some degree, considered retirement. So it isn’t that Brian can’t get dollar figures from their agents, it’s that the agents don’t know if their clients intend to keep playing yet.

    Maybe, just maybe, if the Yankees were to target guys who aren’t on the cusp of retirement they would be able to get things done sooner.

  16. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 9:47 am

    @KenDavidoff

    If the #Marlins are in financial trouble, they might not get the same love from Bud Selig as did the #Mets. http://bit.ly/TNJHBD

    ————–

    I am still having a serious problem understanding how the Marlins are in financial trouble.

    Can anyone elaborate?

  17. 86w183 November 16th, 2012 at 9:48 am

    I do believe that the Yanks should put deadlines on Kuroda, Pettitte and Mariano so they know where they stand.

    Its pretty clear the Yanks are not taking on much if anything in 2014 obligations. Paying Ross $ 3.1 M and Hunter $ 13 M in 2014 wasn’t going to happen.

    The big savings are in 2014 because of the impact of getting revenue sharing rebates as a rewards for not going over the cap. That’s what makes it soooo attractive.

    Can’t see the Braves pursuing Upton AND Swisher. That’s a lot of coin. They need to fill the CF void first. Then either get a less expensive LF and move Prado to 3B or just find a 3B.

  18. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 9:51 am

    I’m gonna repost my plan from yesterday.. I think the Yanks do nothing until the deadline and only if they think there’s a chance they’ll miss the playoffs.

  19. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 9:54 am

    Repost:

    Shame Spencer November 15th, 2012 at 10:20 pm

    mac – Don’t think they’ll sell exactly.. I think they’ll just know what parts they can really spare right now whereas at this moment it’s a bit fuzzy.

    For example: Jeter is really a question mark to start the season and I do think it may take him some time because his off-season routine will be delayed (Jeter made it sound in a more recent interview as if he basically has to work out all year round instead of taking any extended breaks because he’s older and can’t get back in shape as quickly). So you want to hang onto Nunez for at least a little while to make sure Jeter can have time to get it together. Could also increase Nunez’s value if all goes well.

    With the rotation… if we wanted to make a trade right now, at least one of those guys would have to be included. But determining who isn’t so simple and seeing how things shake out with them (and Pineda) will be key.

    BP is a similar situation with Montgomery on the horizon. Can he be a factor? Will Joba be able to stay on the field? Can Robertson bounce back from a bit of a down year for him? And of course, can Mo still be Mo after a year on the DL? Those are all in house questions.. if there is one thing I know, it’s that Joe can piecemeal a pen together with guys we already have for 80 games. So they may stand pat there as well.

    The final big question is the OF… I think they end up going with Ichiro and Ibanez (who ended up not being completely awful last year, though admittedly you don’t want him out there often) and pray to god an Almonte or Heathcott can be realistic options mid year. If no one is standing out or knocking on the door, they look elsewhere.

    ——————–

    I also think they might.. and this is a big one because the forgone conclusion seems to be they’ll just resign Martin.. but I think they might go with back-ups and minor league guys to give you what Russell the Muscle gave us in the first 81 games last year: .179 /.300 /.348 /.648, 8 HR and 22 RBIs.

  20. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 9:54 am

    Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 9:51 am

    I’m gonna repost my plan from yesterday.. I think the Yanks do nothing until the deadline and only if they think there’s a chance they’ll miss the playoffs.
    ————–

    As methodical as Cashman is he doesn’t generally make major moves at the deadline – the only one he did recently was the deal for Nady and Marte; other than that his moves have all been relatively minor at the deadline with the only two consequential ones I can think of being the pick ups of Aaron Boone and David Justice. Even the moves for guys like Ichiro, Berkman and Kerry Wood, were small moves given the relative performance of the players involved rather than the names involved.

  21. pat November 16th, 2012 at 9:56 am

    Shame

    Management who redirects profits away from the team rather than reinvesting them in the team can create financial problems pretty easily.

  22. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 9:56 am

    86w183 November 16th, 2012 at 9:48 am

    I do believe that the Yanks should put deadlines on Kuroda, Pettitte and Mariano so they know where they stand.

    Its pretty clear the Yanks are not taking on much if anything in 2014 obligations. Paying Ross $ 3.1 M and Hunter $ 13 M in 2014 wasn’t going to happen.
    —————

    I agree on both points. Andy has a habit of dragging this decision out and the Yankees need to know sooner rather than later if they have another hole to fill in the rotation.

    I also agree that the 2014 commitments weren’t things that the Yankees would’ve had any interest in, however it would be disingenuous for Cash to claim (which he has not done) that it’s too early for players to consider signing.

  23. PacoDooley November 16th, 2012 at 9:57 am

    YT –

    I think that they appear to be willing to pay some luxury tax on one year deals given the rebate and reduction they would get in 2014. I really doubt that they would go all the way to the point of trying to stay close to the tax ceiling this year, but obviously only time will tell. I don’t see direct evidence that they don’t want to do what they can to win given the 2014 constraint (with a lot of this constraint coming from the A-Rod contract that came via ownership!).

  24. austinmac November 16th, 2012 at 10:03 am

    Yes, it is early. However, this year we have been told many times they must be careful about spending that impacts 2014. That places severe limits that either didn’t exist last year or we didn’t know about them. That restriction is a significant limitation.

  25. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 10:05 am

    Chip – I know it would be a major shift from what he normally does.. but in this case, I think it might be what they do because they have so many pieces that are question marks. I do think this team, as is, could be a .500+ ball club for the first half. I think they might test the theory and see where the division is.

  26. 86w183 November 16th, 2012 at 10:05 am

    It might be too early for players to accept one-year offers while they continue shopping for multi-year deals.

    That may be where the Yanks are right now. Could have solid one-year offers out there and waiting for answers. I wouldn’t be surprised.

  27. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 10:06 am

    pat November 16th, 2012 at 9:56 am

    Shame

    Management who redirects profits away from the team rather than reinvesting them in the team can create financial problems pretty easily.

    ———————

    Is that what they’re referencing though? That much I could understand, but the franchise was considered to be ‘under water’ earlier this week and I just can’t wrap my head around how that’s possible. If the money isn’t being routed back to the team, someone is certainly making a profit!

  28. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 10:07 am

    Also, given that they aren’t putting money on the books for 2014, they might be able to get a rental mid-season for much less than they’d pay for one right now.

  29. austinmac November 16th, 2012 at 10:08 am

    YT,

    Well said about this year’s differences. We now have huge holes in the team with even larger ones coming next year. About half of last year’s starters may well be gone after this year. Good plan on getting one year replacements.

    In 2014, just bring up the entire SWB team. It would probably be more interesting to watch

  30. austinmac November 16th, 2012 at 10:11 am

    I am still waiting too.

    I am waitng for a reporter to ask the Yanklees about the 20% reduction in payroll.

    I am waiting or a reporter to ask if the team is concerned with the declining attendance and ratings.

    I am waiitng for a reporter to ask if they are concerned the scorched earth spending policy will affect the team and cause significant revenue losses.

    I am waiting for a reporter to ask how they can expect thsi team to compete with lesser players in many positions.

  31. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 10:12 am

    Let’s say for LT purposes the 2013 year-end calculated on AAV, payroll is 200M. LT is 42.5% over 178M. 22M @ 42.% equals 31.35M out of the Steinbrenners pockets.

    I think this is bad math YT. I don’t see how 42% of 22 is 31.35.

  32. luis November 16th, 2012 at 10:13 am

    Don’t forget…. It’s a process! Hahaha…. Ugh

  33. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 10:14 am

    The fact that the Yankees seem unwilling to put even a small contract (like Ross) on the books for 2014 makes me think they don’t really have a plan besides ‘wait for the 2013 offseason and try to sign 1 year deals again’.

    Getting guys like Darvish, Cespedes, Chapman, Ross, Upton, Headley or whoever on the books for 2014 is SMART because they are known costs that are DEALS and take away a need at an affordable price.

    That the Yankees are going to try and spend 70 million in the 2013 offseason to both compete and get under a budget limit is insane to me.

  34. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 10:14 am

    Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 10:07 am

    Also, given that they aren’t putting money on the books for 2014, they might be able to get a rental mid-season for much less than they’d pay for one right now.
    ——————–

    Usually the opposite is true though. GMs who have assets do jack up the prices around the deadline because of the truncated time frame for teams in need to get things done.

    For example, Brian needs a RF’er right now but he has months to find one so he can keep calling around negotiating to find one he wants at a reasonable price. If he needs a RF’er in July and I have one then his ability to call around isn’t as great which means I can say, “sure, you can have my guy, but I want Dave Robertson – you don’t want to do that deal, fine with me, I’m happy to keep my guy and if he walks at the end of the year I’ll take the draft pick.”

  35. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 10:18 am

    Eduardo Nunez and a lower level guy (Kyle Higashoika) to the Marlins for Ricky Nolasco and Logan Morrison?

    I don’t really want Nolasco, I don’t think he would be very good here but the Yankees could take on the one year obligation and put him in the back of the rotation as insurance against Kuroda not re-signing or Andy retiring. The key here would be getting the 25 year old LoMo who is a LH power hitter that would be a very nice addition to the lineup. Put him in RF.

    He does have a big personality and a bit of an injury history, but I would trust the leadership in the Yankee clubhouse to reign him in and hope that not having to cover such a spacious outfield would benefit his health.

  36. austinmac November 16th, 2012 at 10:19 am

    86w183,

    The Yankees may well have discussed one year deals with players. The problem is good ones don’t do one year. Is that not a concern? For one year, one gets released players or older players. those remotely wanted or in their prime can do better.

    I don’t know how anyone can watch the team last year, see the age issues, realize Kuroda, Swisher and Martin accounted for 10 wins above replacement, and think lesser replcacements do not leave the team significantly worse.

    To me, as a fan, that is unacceptable.

  37. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 10:22 am

    Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 10:14 am

    The fact that the Yankees seem unwilling to put even a small contract (like Ross) on the books for 2014 makes me think they don’t really have a plan besides ‘wait for the 2013 offseason and try to sign 1 year deals again’.
    ———————-

    Yeah. Yeah that’s why I think 2013 is just going to be an audition for what cheap parts they keep for 2014.

  38. austinmac November 16th, 2012 at 10:23 am

    This year’s feeling, to me is unfamiliar. This year I have no hope the team will improve. My only hope is they will lessen the decline that is inevitable with the “plan” of the team.

  39. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 10:24 am

    Chip – I think we can both agree there are a lot of variables at play.. at that point in the year though, the Yanks would at least have a better sense of who they could afford to give up (like Robertson, for example – who of course I want to keep but wouldn’t have a problem dealing for a position player).

    And some teams could stand pat and take the draft pick but you never know who is going to be selling at that time of year. They might prefer a known quantity.. Robertson, just for example, is controlled for another year.

  40. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 10:25 am

    austinmac November 16th, 2012 at 10:19 am

    86w183,

    The Yankees may well have discussed one year deals with players. The problem is good ones don’t do one year. Is that not a concern? For one year, one gets released players or older players. those remotely wanted or in their prime can do better.
    ——————

    Correct – if you’re only offering 1 year deals and you’re pursuing players who are contemplating retirement you’re not going to get things done right away.

  41. austinmac November 16th, 2012 at 10:27 am

    It would seem reasonbale for the team to get players to sign for reasonable numbers for next year. However, the plan seems to be replace them all next year with cheap deals. Actually, I have no clue what their plan is for next year.

  42. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 10:28 am

    Shame –

    Honestly, outside of Cano, I think the guy I would absolutely investigate dealing is D-Rob.

    Could he, in theory, be the next closer of the Yankees? Sure I guess. But for right now he has more value in trade than he does to the team. They have Joba, Aardsma and will have Montgomery behind Rivera. He’s got better trade value than Joba (impending FA). Could he bring back a stud everyday player? No, not on his own. But he could bring back a highly useful player from a team looking for a closer right now.

  43. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 10:31 am

    I love D-rob but I’d trade anyone out of the bullpen for a chance to fill a position player/starter spot.

  44. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 10:31 am

    austinmac November 16th, 2012 at 10:27 am

    It would seem reasonbale for the team to get players to sign for reasonable numbers for next year. However, the plan seems to be replace them all next year with cheap deals. Actually, I have no clue what their plan is for next year.

    ———————-

    Me either which is why I’m developing my own that does sort of match up with what they’re doing (spoiler alert: nothing).

    I think if they think they can milk Phelps and Nova for 400 innings in 2014, they do that. And this year is when they find out of they can. Pineda’s progress is also a factor, but I think they’d go with those two in the rotation in 2014 (and it won’t be the same as Hughes and Kennedy, because Nova has already gone through, by that point, three seasons with the team and Phelps two).

  45. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 10:31 am

    austinmac November 16th, 2012 at 10:27 am

    It would seem reasonbale for the team to get players to sign for reasonable numbers for next year. However, the plan seems to be replace them all next year with cheap deals. Actually, I have no clue what their plan is for next year.
    —————

    In theory I would like the plan to be “just hold the fort until the young guys are ready” but since the Yankees have shown no inclination to trust their young position playing prospects I don’t know how that could be the plan.

  46. Mike Ri November 16th, 2012 at 10:32 am

    don?t know how anyone can watch the team last year, see the age issues, realize Kuroda, Swisher and Martin accounted for 10————

    —————————-

    austinmac— I agree with you on Kuroda and to some extent Swisher….but i think the Yankees will be fine without Martin! . . .the man batted .200 and played below average defense…. …Now back to Swisher . . Personally im all set with Swisher …. He might have a decent bat ( except in the playoffs where it matters most ) … but his average to below average defense . . ..poor post-season hitting ( statistically the worse playoff hitter of all time ) and kiddy antics have grown tired on me … Give him a fair offer . .if he walks . . .mehh .. he walks .

    Kuroda would hurt the most

  47. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 10:33 am

    Swisher is actually one of the better defenders in RF. He has some pretty funny failures, but for the most part he was very good in RF.

  48. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 10:33 am

    Chip – Completely agree.. but I really do believe they’d want to figure out a couple of things before moving him. Like: Can Joba stay healthy, can Montgomery be a factor, and is Mo really okay, before dealing him. Especially with Soriano gone, I think they take the conservative approach and it might not hurt them as much with Robertson because like I said he would still be under control for another full season if they moved him mid year.

  49. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 10:34 am

    Actually.. who is the Nats closer?

    Man, I want to trade with them so badly lol…

  50. Yankee Trader November 16th, 2012 at 10:35 am

    JF-

    Bad math indeed More like 9.35M! A clear conscience is the sign of a fuzzy memory.

    I’m interested on knowing what is Plan B if Kuroda does not sign? If Martin gets 3 years and goes elsewhere and Pierzynski and Napoli are getting 2 year sizable contract offers?

  51. MTU November 16th, 2012 at 10:35 am

    I hope we fill out our Ro w Kuroda and AP.

    If we get them we can consider trading a pitcher for a bat.

    If not, we can’t.

    I think we’ll get Ichiro back so our OF will be GGBG, Grandy, and Ichiro.

    Ibanez, etc. will be our BU.

    I think Mo comes back.

    I think guys like Adams, MM, and Romine will be given a shot to make the team out of ST.

    And I think Cashman will wait till later in the OS to see what’s in the bargain bin, or for the incredible trade.

    That’s what I think they’ll do.

    A team like that is competitive. Just not very inspiring.

    It’s part of the transition to the new core.

    It positions the Yankees for potential sale.

    And it also opens up the door for more spending after the reset.

    It may inspire a backlash.

    In the meantime hang onto your caps.

    Disclaimer : Those are not necessarily my preferences.

    ;)

  52. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 10:36 am

    Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 10:31 am

    I love D-rob but I’d trade anyone out of the bullpen for a chance to fill a position player/starter spot.
    —————–

    Robertson, Cervelli and Nunez to the Rangers for Murphy, Soto and Moreland? Use Moreland at DH and Murphy in RF

  53. Yankee Trader November 16th, 2012 at 10:36 am

    Was Tyler Clippard until late in the season-then Drew Storen.

  54. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 10:36 am

    And I think if you have to give Kuroda $18 million for this year, you do that. I said so yesterday.. and then CB said the same thing a few minutes later.. making me feel incredibly smart lol.

  55. brianlopez22 November 16th, 2012 at 10:39 am

    Why can othe rteams promote from AA, but we never have enough confidence to let anyone jump to the majors.

    Everyone knows AAA is a wasteland for the sick and elderly.
    Everyone, EXCEPT Cashman, that is.

  56. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 10:39 am

    I’m interested on knowing what is Plan B if Kuroda does not sign? If Martin gets 3 years and goes elsewhere and Pierzynski and Napoli are getting 2 year sizable contract offers?

    —————–

    There is no reason to give Martin a multi-year deal. Or any catcher for that matter that is available.

    His first half was awful and I do think Cervelli and Romine could match his awful.

    In short, my thoughts are Martin are simple: We can lose without you.

  57. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 10:40 am

    Yankee Trader November 16th, 2012 at 10:36 am

    Was Tyler Clippard until late in the season-then Drew Storen.

    ——————–

    Thanks Trader.. could see them wanting to sure things up back there.. they know the Yanks produce top quality bullpen arms :D

  58. brianlopez22 November 16th, 2012 at 10:41 am


    Robertson, Cervelli and Nunez to the Rangers for Murphy, Soto and Moreland? Use Moreland at DH and Murphy in RF

    A. We can’t get someone to DH, you have 2 peopel already waiting for that spot: ARod and Jeter.
    B. Murphy is a scrub.
    C. Soto is a lesser version of Rusell Martin. I’d rather see Romine.

  59. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 10:41 am

    Or Cervelli and Stewie.. to give Romine time to get ABs in the minors for a while. Don’t see him making the team out of the gate.

  60. MTU November 16th, 2012 at 10:43 am

    Shame-

    And my reply to CB was that I think Kuroda might be being tempted w a multi-year contract.

    I don’t think the Yanks would go there but there are several teams that would.

    I’m concerned that he’s not already signed.

    That means he has lot’s of options he considering.

    Doesn’t mean he won’t settle on us but it decreases the odds IMO.

    A 1 yr. deal. No matter the amount may just not be good enough.

    We’ll see.

    There is always the possibility that he just says, “Screw it. I’m returning to Japan.”

  61. MTU November 16th, 2012 at 10:45 am

    Sign Ichiro and get him on the phone with Kuroda.

    :)

  62. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 10:45 am

    MTU – I don’t think that’s it. He’s been okay on one year pacts before, and I’m not even sure it’s the money.. I think he is a guy looking for location, and I think ultimately that will be how he makes his choice.

    If you think about it, the Yanks would have been smart to try and get him for two years on his last deal.. it would control his AAV and give them a solid #2 or #3 (if you take into account the uncertainty of those ‘flimsy’ NL arms, like everyone was when we were pursuing him lol) for a gap year. My guess is he was only interested in the one year.

  63. Yankee Trader November 16th, 2012 at 10:46 am

    Soto will be non tendered as soon as the Rangers wrap up a deal for Martin.

    Chip-

    Here’s one that might work with the Padres. 29 yoEdinson Volquez is a FA at the end of next season. Walks too many like Gio Gonzalez did, and his ERA was much better in Petco, but he strikes out batters and is cheap.

    Volquez and one of, RF’ers Chris Denorfia or Will Venable, also cheap, for Team Thrifty.

  64. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 10:48 am

    brianlopez22 November 16th, 2012 at 10:39 am

    Why can othe rteams promote from AA, but we never have enough confidence to let anyone jump to the majors.
    —————-

    Because the Yankees have long had a fear that with what they charge for tickets the fans will not suffer growing pains of the young. It was a plan put in place by George and still lords over the organization. The Yankees do sprinkle in young players (Jeter, Cano, Gardner, Hughes, Joba, Melky) but they are loathe to do it en masse or in key roles – consider that George was so scared of using Jeter at SS when Tony Fernandez went down – despite Jeter clearly being ready for the show – he had Watson explore the possibility of getting Felix Fermin from the Mariners for Mariano Rivera.

    They also preferred to go with Scott Brosius at 3b instead of giving some kid named Mike Lowell a shot.

  65. MTU November 16th, 2012 at 10:49 am

    Conversation goes something like this ( short version):

    Ichiro: Hiroki-san. You and I are Samauri. We stick together.

    We are bound by honor and tradition. I am a Yankee.

    You must be a Yankee too !

    Kuroda: You are right Ichiro-san. I must sign w the Yankees.

    See. problem solved.

    :)

  66. MTU November 16th, 2012 at 10:51 am

    Shame-

    I am not convinced. I think he may just choose Japan anyway.

    we’ll see. Would love to be wrong.

  67. DONNYBROOK November 16th, 2012 at 10:55 am

    You wanna jump start this team? You wanna fill some holes? The Best, Quickest, Most Beneficial way to do that, is to deal Cano. The longer Cashman dilly-dallies, the Worse his return on Cano is gonna be. And with the Yanks eye ballin’ that $189 Mill, there is NO point in even dickerin’ with Boras. Total waste of time. Cashman should make it clear at the GM Meetings that Cano is available, and start fielding offers Immediately. A player of Cano’s caliber, should be inna another uniform Before Cashman departs.

  68. MTU November 16th, 2012 at 10:56 am

    Haren is my plan B if Kuroda walks.

    Give him the Beckett treatment. A shot in the back and send him out there to re-establish his value.

    Have Warren and eventually Pineda ready to spot start.

  69. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 10:57 am

    Yankee Trader November 16th, 2012 at 10:46 am

    Soto will be non tendered as soon as the Rangers wrap up a deal for Martin.

    Chip-

    Here’s one that might work with the Padres. 29 yoEdinson Volquez is a FA at the end of next season. Walks too many like Gio Gonzalez did, and his ERA was much better in Petco, but he strikes out batters and is cheap.

    Volquez and one of, RF’ers Chris Denorfia or Will Venable, also cheap, for Team Thrifty.
    —————

    I want no part of Volquez. I wouldn’t mind getting Venable though.

    I agree with you on Soto, the Yankees can probably wait for him to be non-tendered and sign him.

  70. Yankee Trader November 16th, 2012 at 10:57 am

    Could the Phillies be a trading partner. They are one of the top 3 payrolls. They need a CF’er, an infielder at 2B for oft injured Utley or a 3rd baseman.

    The Yankees need a defensive minded catcher. LoHudders want one who can actually hit until Sanchez is ready. One that isn’t signed for big bucks and multiple years. One who works well with pitchers and has pop and hits for average and throws out,runners better than most starting catchers in the majors

    Chip et al-

    Could you come up with a trade focusing on Carlos Ruiz and Curtis Granderson as the keys[both FAs at end next season], and include other pieces, maybe David Adams or Corbin Joseph?

  71. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 10:57 am

    MTU – I believe Kuroda’s last couple deals were only one year.. could be wrong on that. I know he signed with the Dodgers in 2007 for 3 years.. and I thought he took a one year pact from them, then one from us. So I don’t see why length would be all that important to him now as opposed to before. Unless that one year with the Dodgers was some sort of extension and not just a one year pact?

  72. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 10:58 am

    MTU November 16th, 2012 at 10:56 am

    Haren is my plan B if Kuroda walks
    ————–

    No problem with that – assuming Haren wants to come east. I think he’s more likely to wind up with the Padres than the Yankees. Re-establish himself playing in a relatively soft division with a really big home ball park

  73. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 10:58 am

    Phillies would have made a good trading partner last year.. bet they would have loved to have one year of Swish, smh.

  74. MTU November 16th, 2012 at 10:58 am

    I’m talking to the Royals and Rockies, or any other team that’s desperate for pitching.

    And I’m asking, “what do you have to offer that I need ?”

  75. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 11:00 am

    Trader –

    Simplest way would be a straight up swap of Granderson for Ruiz. It would depend on what sort of payroll obligations the Phillies are willing to take on. The problem I think that you would have though is that the Phillies are looking for RH power to break up Utley and Howard; not sure they would have much interest in Grandy. Though that might change if Bossman Junior winds up with the Braves.

  76. Against All Odds November 16th, 2012 at 11:01 am

    Because the Yankees have long had a fear that with what they charge for tickets the fans will not suffer growing pains of the young.

    ——————-

    Which is weird to me because they will get an old guy, watch him struggle, and not make a change until it’s way past due.

  77. brianlopez22 November 16th, 2012 at 11:01 am

    Chip –

    Apologies.
    My gripe was nothing more than that.
    A gripe.

    I am clearly aware of our inability to promote from within and george’s fear on the dreadful prospect.

    The almost Mariano trade.
    The almost Cano and Wang for Randy Johnson trade.

    It was more my frustration to let the kids jump AAA because we all know AAA is a wasteland of dead prospects.

  78. MTU November 16th, 2012 at 11:02 am

    Shame-

    I hope we prevail on Kuroda and it doesn’t drag out too long.

    Other things are contingent on what Kuroda does.

    Like to see them put in motion ASAP. More options that way.

  79. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 11:02 am

    MTU –

    I would call the A’s and ask them about either Seth Smith or Josh Reddick.

  80. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 11:05 am

    I don’t even see why Kuroda would hold them up, though… This is the year you can pay him whatever he wants.. so assume that and just get to Mo and Ichiro if that’s where this is headed.

    The only thing I could see Kuroda holding up is signing Andy because I really do think he’s feigning retirement again just so he can see what both Mo and Kuroda get.

  81. MTU November 16th, 2012 at 11:05 am

    Chip-

    Problem there is that they have plenty of pitching and that’s our strong suit in trade.

    We may not have what they need.

    Those guys are good and cheap. why would they move them ?

  82. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 11:06 am

    @MarcCarig

    Indeed, if the Mets are going make a meaningful upgrade at catcher, gotta figure it has to be in trade. This catching market is wacky.

  83. MTU November 16th, 2012 at 11:06 am

    Shame-

    I hope you’re right and my gut is wrong.

    ;)

  84. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 11:06 am

    “Awful” or “thin” is the word I would have used but I suppose “wacky” works…

  85. Yankee Trader November 16th, 2012 at 11:06 am

    Sign Ichiro and get him on the phone with Kuroda.
    ——————————–

    Hiroki-”I’m waiting to see if the Yankees resign Russell, my long time batterymate when I was a Dodger. I also want to see if the Yankees bring in some offensive minded replacements as I received the lowest run support amongst Yankee starters. What’s the story with you, Ichiro?”

    Ichiro-” I’ve told the Yankees I want to come back, but it seems they are waiting to see if you and Andy are coming back, so they can trade a pitcher for a RF’er with pop, and then probably offer me a job as a 4th OF’er or defensive replacement. Let’s you and I talk about returning too Japan and playing our last few years there.”

  86. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 11:07 am

    Against All Odds November 16th, 2012 at 11:01 am

    Because the Yankees have long had a fear that with what they charge for tickets the fans will not suffer growing pains of the young.

    ——————-

    Which is weird to me because they will get an old guy, watch him struggle, and not make a change until it’s way past due.
    ————–

    It’s not weird. You have to consider the business of the Yankees vs. the sport of Yankee baseball.

    The Yankees don’t make money from the real fans; or even the crazy fans who are so into baseball they post on a blog all day :-) where they make money are the corporate groups which are generally not made up of fans, but they’re people who want to buy a suite so that they can take clients in from out of town to a game.

    These are people who don’t follow prospects, don’t watch the team on a daily basis, but they know the name Alex Rodriguez. They know the name Roger Clemens. Given all the other places in New York for these companies to spend their dollars, the Yankees have to have name value not just in the brand, but in the players. The Yankees are the last team to not have names on their uniforms, but don’t think for a minute that the names don’t mean as much to the business of the Yankees as anything else.

  87. DONNYBROOK November 16th, 2012 at 11:07 am

    I just do Not see Haren signing a 1yr deal.

  88. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 11:07 am

    I wish they would multi-task. Get Mo signed already at least!!!!

    Good lord..

  89. MTU November 16th, 2012 at 11:08 am

    YT-

    :(

    I’d make the angry face but I don’t know how.

  90. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 11:08 am

    MTU – Actually, your gut is exactly why I think he only wants a one year deal.. I do think he has probably regularly considered going home, and would continue to like that option every year. At least that’s what I’ll keep telling myself until the Angels sign him lol.

  91. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 11:08 am

    MTU November 16th, 2012 at 11:05 am

    Chip-

    Problem there is that they have plenty of pitching and that’s our strong suit in trade.

    We may not have what they need.

    Those guys are good and cheap. why would they move them ?
    ——————

    They both have extreme L/R splits and can’t play them both with Cespedes and Crisp – I don’t think Beane would give one of them away; but Robertson for Smith could make sense.

  92. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 11:09 am

    :angry:

    Like this!! : angry :

    No spaces between the word an colons.

  93. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 11:09 am

    F*CK!

  94. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 11:10 am

    Its : x

    :x

  95. Against All Odds November 16th, 2012 at 11:10 am

    You made some good points Chip about the business f the Yankees. I don’t mind the names but the parade of old guys that are bring used to fill up the rest of the roster. Jones was done at one point but they kept rolling him out there and kept saying he’ll turn it around. No he won’t he’s an old name and he’s done as a regular player

  96. MTU November 16th, 2012 at 11:10 am

    Haren has been injured.

    He may be seen as somewhat damaged goods needing to prove his health again.

    Nothing better than a 1 yr. pillow to do that.

    That’s my argument.

    He would have great visibility doing that on the Yankees.

    We could pay him well on a 1 yr.

  97. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 11:10 am

    It’s mad, not angry!!!

    :mad:

  98. Mike Ri November 16th, 2012 at 11:12 am

    The Cubs announced that they have signed catcher Dioner Navarro to a one-year contract. Navarro will earn a base salary of $1.75MM

    Per MLBTR

  99. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 11:13 am

    Let’s see how many of these work (MTU, you can copy and paste any of them to see how they look for future usage):

    :grin:
    :mrgreen:
    :neutral:
    :twisted:
    :arrow:
    :shock:
    :smile:
    :???:
    :cool:
    :evil:
    :idea:
    :oops:
    :roll:
    :razz:
    :wink:
    :cry:
    :eek:
    :mad:

  100. Yankee Trader November 16th, 2012 at 11:13 am

    Why does Dan haren need to re-establish himself?

    His ERA was 3.07 the month of September.

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/...../dan-haren

    Don’t you think he’ll get more than one year?

  101. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 11:13 am

    I think I’m gonna be using the ‘cry’ smiley more often this year…

  102. MTU November 16th, 2012 at 11:14 am

    Chip-

    Not sure Smith is a good enough return for a stud like D-Rob.

    Besides. Right now we need D-Rob.

    Reddick is another story.

  103. 86w183 November 16th, 2012 at 11:16 am

    MTU — Your translation skills are off the charts.

    The Yanks have always be willing to pay luxury taxes and I’m sure they will again.

    It’s the combination of luxury tax savings AND revenue sharing rebates that makes getting down to $ 189 M so attractive. I would try it too. $ 189 M is still a ton of money, even if $ 75 M of it is committed to three guys.

    Eager to see this off-season get moving. I’m bored.

    By the way is Keith Law insane?

    He’s “embarrassed” that Cabrera was the clear winner in the MVP voting? He should be embarrassed that his over reliance on modern stats has clouded his ability to see anything but numbers. Cabrera won because he was a stud in September and Trout was a dud in September more than anything else.

  104. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 11:16 am

    Mike Ri November 16th, 2012 at 11:12 am

    The Cubs announced that they have signed catcher Dioner Navarro to a one-year contract. Navarro will earn a base salary of $1.75MM
    ——————–

    The reaction to that signing was actually pretty funny. One guy said that when he started writing the post about it he assumed it was a minor league deal. When he saw that it was a major league contract worth over $1M he checked to make sure that someone wasn’t pulling his leg before he posted it.

  105. MTU November 16th, 2012 at 11:19 am

    Shame-

    You’ll create a monster w those.

    Think I’ll just stick w. a basic repetoire despite it’s limitations.

    I’m a simple guy. I’ll leave the sophisticated stuff to you.

    But thanks for offering them.

    :)

  106. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 11:19 am

    Trout was a dud in September more than anything else.

    Mike Trout hit .289 .400 .500 .900 in September with 7 steals. How is that a dud?

  107. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 11:20 am

    86w183 November 16th, 2012 at 11:16 am

    By the way is Keith Law insane?

    He’s “embarrassed” that Cabrera was the clear winner in the MVP voting? He should be embarrassed that his over reliance on modern stats has clouded his ability to see anything but numbers. Cabrera won because he was a stud in September and Trout was a dud in September more than anything else.
    ———————

    I don’t think either guy getting the award is a mistake. I’m surprised it was as lopsided as it was, but you can’t deny the fact that Cabrera played a month longer than Trout so he was adding value to his team while Trout was doing nothing for the Angels.

    Yes, the Angels had the better record and yes Trout is a better all around player than Cabrera, but I don’t think either of those things have to do with how valuable he either player was to their team.

    Trout’s the player of the year, but not the most valuable player.

  108. Yankee Trader November 16th, 2012 at 11:21 am

    MTU-

    Garrett Jones was a target last year. Lefty, played RF and 1B, and a Pirate.Might be worth looking into. Cheap.

  109. MTU November 16th, 2012 at 11:22 am

    Thanks 86.

    I agree on Law. I can understand disagreeing but saying you’re embarrased when a Triple Crown winner gets the MVP over someone else.

    Yeah, for me, that’s nuts.

    ;)

  110. Mike Ri November 16th, 2012 at 11:22 am

    The reaction to that signing was actually pretty funny. One guy said that when he started writing the post about it he assumed it was a minor league deal. When he saw that it was a major league contract worth over $1M he checked to make sure that someone wasn?t pulling his leg before he posted it.

    ———
    Chip . . .lol lol

  111. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 11:24 am

    He should be embarrassed that his over reliance on modern stats has clouded his ability to see anything but numbers.

    Aren’t you falling to numbers if you are suggesting Cabrera won because his numbers were better in the stretch? Aren’t you ignoring things that aren’t numbers when you discount Trout’s defense & base running? How is thinking a player who was just as good offensively & much better at the other facets of the game should be MVP ‘relying on modern stats’? I find it amusing that old school people want to be the first to ass kiss defense, base running, bunting, and all that stuff but then the first chance they get they vote for a bat only guy for MVP. Not saying you are in that group, just a general observation.

    Joe Pos runs down the Cabrera MVP with a truck: http://joeposnanski.blogspot.c.....rmath.html

  112. Yankee Trader November 16th, 2012 at 11:24 am

    MTU-

    Need another Jonesy. Meant to add Garrett Jones’ stats:

    http://www.baseball-reference......ga02.shtml

  113. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 11:25 am

    Trout’s the player of the year, but not the most valuable player.

    This logic is infuriating, it doesn’t make any sense. There is no denying that Trout is a better all around player to have on a team but that doesn’t make him most valuable?! He hit just as good as Miggy & played defense & stole 49 bases.

  114. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 11:26 am

    Yankee Trader November 16th, 2012 at 11:21 am

    MTU-

    Garrett Jones was a target last year. Lefty, played RF and 1B, and a Pirate.Might be worth looking into. Cheap.
    ————

    I could see that.

  115. Yankee Trader November 16th, 2012 at 11:27 am

    According to Nikkan Sports, the Arizona Diamondbacks are interested in acquiring both Kyuji Fujikawa and Hiroyuki Nakajima.

    Fujikawa got a tour of Chase Field and the spring training facilities on Thursday. He will also visit the Dodgers, Angels, and a team on the East Coast. The Rangers do not appear to be on his current list of places to visit.

    Source: Nikkan Sports 11/16/2012, Sponichi 11/16/2012, Sanspo 11/16/2012, Daily Sports 11/16/2012

    JF-

    Who do you think the team is on the East Coast-Red Sox?

  116. MTU November 16th, 2012 at 11:27 am

    YT-

    I think they’re going w. Ichiro and that they’re fine with it.

    I’d certainly offer a MiLB contract with a release date to Sizemore if he was interested.

    Would do the same with Melky although someone is likely going to sign him on the cheap to a ML deal.

    Saw some buzz about Willingham this AM. On a trade ? Twins need plenty of help.

  117. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 11:27 am

    The MVP is usually pretty controversial.. some see it as the best player for the season, others focus on the ‘most valuable’ aspect..

    Personally, I’m pretty sure as this generation of writers/voters heads towards the horizon a greater stock will be placed on overall numbers, both defensively and offensively.

    I think the only reason it was so lopsided was because they knew Trout was a lock for Rookie of the Year. It sounds dumb, don’t get me wrong, but whenever you let people vote for stuff they take those things into account (see: Al Pacino’s Oscar award for SCENT OF A WOMAN, ugh!).

  118. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 11:28 am

    JF – I don’t quite get it either but there’s a long history of that particular debate with the MVP award. Players getting the shaft because their teams don’t make the playoffs and other bunk like that.

  119. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 11:28 am

    Who do you think the team is on the East Coast-Red Sox?

    I thought it was the blue jays. I’d like the Yankees to consider him.

  120. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 11:29 am

    Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 11:28 am

    Who do you think the team is on the East Coast-Red Sox?

    I thought it was the blue jays. I’d like the Yankees to consider him.
    ————-

    Red Sox make sense – they need a Short Stop.

  121. MTU November 16th, 2012 at 11:29 am

    I’d love me some Willingham.

    Not a great defender but the dude can hit.

    :)

  122. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 11:32 am

    Red Sox make sense – they need a Short Stop.

    For Nakajima sure but that bit was about Fujikawa

  123. Yankee Trader November 16th, 2012 at 11:32 am

    MTU-

    Twins need pitching but why give up Willinham signed for 7M/year X 2 more years. Denard Span is more likely the trade bait, replaceable by Ben Revere

  124. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 11:32 am

    I think the ‘embarrassing’ comment is based on the fact that it wasn’t close, not on the final result.

  125. DONNYBROOK November 16th, 2012 at 11:32 am

    Love seeing Stat Geeks melt down. Witnessing such on Back-to-back days is as good assa series sweep. Also love seeing Another bad picture of Cashman at the top of a thread. Does this guy Ever take a good pic?

  126. MTU November 16th, 2012 at 11:34 am

    YT-

    Don’t particularly want Span.

    Want JW.

    Why ? You said it yourself. They need Pitching.

    We might just be able to offer some.

    ;)

  127. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 11:35 am

    I remember when I wanted to sign Cabrera to be our 1B and it wasn’t insane…. *sigh* those were the days.

  128. MTU November 16th, 2012 at 11:35 am

    Otro threado —->

  129. Yankee Trader November 16th, 2012 at 11:35 am

    Chip

    We were talking about Fujikawa, the great Japanese closer, not SS Nakajima, the one the Yankees won the post on last year.

  130. 86w183 November 16th, 2012 at 11:45 am

    the word VALUABLE is a very subjective one. I would always lean towards a guy who had a great September in leading his team into the post-season over a guy who had his worst month of the season while his team came up short in the post-season.

    It comes to how you define valuable, I suppose. I would not vote for a guy who’s team missed the post-season unless his personal number were way beyond those of anyone else in the league. Trout stole a lot more bases (45) but Cabrera drove in a lot more runs (56). Cabrera won the Triple Crown, trout led the league with 129 runs scored (20 more than Cabrera).

    It is a close call, which is why I ripped Law and will rip anyone who thinks it’s a complete no-brainer and those who think otherwise should be scheduled for a lobotomy.

  131. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 11:55 am

    Trout did not have his worst month in September and he out hit Cabrera in the last 9 games of the season.

  132. Patrick November 16th, 2012 at 11:58 am

    Player of the year is the same thing as most valuable player.

  133. Patrick November 16th, 2012 at 11:59 am

    Also, games in September are not more important than games in other months. It does not matter who played better in September.

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