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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Some things never change

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 16, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

While I was looking up those year-old quotes for this morning’s post, I found this comment from Hal Steinbrenner, also from exactly one year ago today.

“I think we all need Alex to be Alex again. The fans expect it. The fans want it. Alex expects it, and he knows that. Nobody’s harder on himself than him. He will show up in spring ready to play. He’ll be in shape and he’ll be doing his work. He knows he needs to do better than that.”

Some things never change.

You know the best way for the Yankees to improve their team without adding payroll? Get more out of their current players.

That means healthy seasons out of Mark Teixeira and Brett Gardner, a return-to-form against left handers for Robinson Cano, some sort of bounceback for Ivan Nova, another Cy Young-type season from CC Sabathia. And that certainly means improved production from Alex Rodriguez.

A year ago there seem to be some real hope that Rodriguez could come back and deliver some version of his former self. Is anyone so optimistic this year?

And that’s a serious question. Has everyone written off Rodriguez as a lost cause, or are there still some out there who believe he can be a legitimate middle-of-the-order run producer again?

Associated Press photo

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351 Responses to “Some things never change”

  1. DONNYBROOK November 16th, 2012 at 11:40 am

    A-Rod issa anchor. All he does is Drag those around him Down. Yanks should save the “improved production” comments regarding A-Rod for any possible prospective buyers. We Yankee fans know better.

  2. MTU November 16th, 2012 at 11:40 am

    I split the difference on that one.

    A-Rod can still produce at a .280-.290, 20 hr, 80-90 RBI pace.

    He needs to make some adjustements to get back there.

    He also will not be able to be a FT 3B any longer. I see him spending more and more time as a DH.

    It is also possible he simply will cointinue to decline despite his best efforts.

    I hope for the former because the latter is an outright disaster.

    If they can trade him I think they should. I doubt they’ll be able to.

  3. Yankee Trader November 16th, 2012 at 11:44 am

    Tex- Since half your games are not in short porch friendly YS, when batting lefty you are going to have to finally think-go the other way against the shift and work on it.

    Gardner- Your asset is defense and speed. The head first slide- is it still the way to go, coming off an injury that cost you all but two weeks of the regular season?

    Alex- Can you do it? What will it be like for you in YS if you get off to a bad start.

  4. Mike Ri November 16th, 2012 at 11:49 am

    .280-.290, 20 hr, 80-90 RBI pace.
    ———-

    I can’t see Alex putting up those numbers ……….265. 18hr …70 rbi’s is more like it ……. hurts to say . .i love Alex . . .but he’s regressing

  5. Yankee Trader November 16th, 2012 at 11:51 am

    Nova-The velocity is there. Location, location and I think you’ll be OK. Same with Joba.

    Jeter-Is it time to discuss a position change to RF? Is that easier on the legs? Will he be abl to produce as well as he did next season coming off months of rehab ?

    Cano- Should improve, IF, he doesn’t have to carry the load. Sign Larry Bowa.

  6. charlestonchew November 16th, 2012 at 11:51 am

    *raises hand*

    I think he will hit 30 hr next year and bat about .280 driving in 110 rbi. He is an incredible player and he will be injury free for most of next season. He’ll also stop tweaking his friggin’ swing every other day with Kevin Long and get back to what has made him successful in the past.

  7. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 11:51 am

    I can’t see Alex putting up those numbers

    He was hitting .276 .358 .449 .806 before Felix broke his hand. 26 HR pace.

  8. Yankee Trader November 16th, 2012 at 11:54 am

    “He’ll also stop tweaking his friggin’ swing every other day with Kevin Long and get back to what has made him successful in the past.”
    ——————————————-

    What exactly did make ARod successful in the past?

  9. I Am Winning November 16th, 2012 at 11:54 am

    Chad you hit it on the head with the Yankees current players needing to step it up.

    Imagine Tex and ARod putting up an MVP season, CC with a CY young performance season, and all the other parts performing to what they are capable of. We won’t know any big signing. After all we have ARod, Tex, and Cano on the same team! That should be terrifying, it’s just.

  10. I Am Winning November 16th, 2012 at 11:54 am

    Need*

  11. G. Love November 16th, 2012 at 11:56 am

    Arod isn’t a lost cause, but he’s really close. The power wasn’t there last season and coupled with the struggles against RHP, depending on him to do anything while staying healthy for a full season is foolish. If the Yankees off season plan includes “Arod being Arod” they all need to have their heads checked.

    That’s part of the frustration with a lot in the fanbase. We’ve been hearing “Arod’s in the best shape of his life” for years now and it hasn’t translated. At some point it becomes the boy who cried wolf. The reason there’s discontent is our expectations of him are so low and he’s supposedly our cleanup hitter.

    It’s a broken record now with him. Tex has reached that status with many of us as well. He’s lost the ability to hit for a high average and now has embraced being a pull hitter who could put up 30HR’s. Yet, when we lose, it’s the fact that hitting HR’s isn’t easy that bites us. If he could get some doubles or singles it would be thrilling instead of waiting for the 30 times a year in 162 he goes yard, or 24 times if we count his HR total last year. Focusing on just hitting 30HR’s means the majority of the year you’re an unproductive out as he’s shown us.

    I think the data is in on those two players and the expectations are muted.

    Where we can improve is Cano can be better. We’ve seen him do that and he’s still young enough. Grandy can be better. If Gardner is healthy, a big if, he can be very valuable.

    But the disenchantment doesn’t come from not winning the world series. It comes from having a team hamstrung by 2 hitters in Tex & Arod who are shells of the players they once were. Arod gets an excuse because he’s up there in years and had hip surgery. Tex is supposedly in his prime and had a bad cough. No excuse there.

  12. RadioKev November 16th, 2012 at 11:58 am

    Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 11:51 am
    I can’t see Alex putting up those numbers

    He was hitting .276 .358 .449 .806 before Felix broke his hand. 26 HR pace.
    ———

    Thanks for that, Jerkface. It sure is frustrating with A-Rod, but the broken hand is hardly his fault. It did affect him afterwards too. What can you do?

    I’ll optimistically assume equal or better numbers next season.

  13. Mike Ri November 16th, 2012 at 11:58 am

    He was hitting .276 .358 .449 .806 before Felix broke his hand. 26 HR pace.

    —-

    I don’t know Jerkface … i just a bad feeling about Arod …. numbers don’t get better as you get older ( with the exception of a few players ) …… i hope he proves me wrong though

  14. Mike Ri November 16th, 2012 at 11:59 am

    have*

  15. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 11:59 am

    I’m just trying to figure out what part of ‘trending downward’ people don’t understand.

    Get on the numbers people all you want, but when you look at the decline of Tex and Arod, it’s pretty clear there’s no going back.

    Can they be better than last year? God willing. But is it likely? Should it be counted on??

  16. Patrick November 16th, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    Whoops didn’t see the new post..

    Player of the year is the same thing as most valuable player. Also, games in September are not more important than games in other months. It does not matter who played better in September.

  17. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    The best you can hope for Alex is that he simply plays more than he has in the last two seasons.

  18. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    Patrick November 16th, 2012 at 11:58 am

    Player of the year is the same thing as most valuable player.
    ——————-

    Not necessarily.

    The player with the best year doesn’t have to be the most valuable player in the league. To me, valuable means that if you remove this player from his team then the team will be significantly impacted.

    If you take Trout off the Angels, true, they win fewer games; but if you remove Cabrera from the Tigers they also win fewer games but in their case they don’t make the post season.

  19. austinmac November 16th, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    The best we can hope is reasonable health and no further decline. He would be an average to above average 3B.

  20. Mike Ri November 16th, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    The best we can hope is reasonable health and no further decline. He would be an average to above average 3B.

    —-

    I agree 100 percent .

  21. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    Patrick November 16th, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    Whoops didn’t see the new post..

    Player of the year is the same thing as most valuable player. Also, games in September are not more important than games in other months. It does not matter who played better in September.
    —————-

    Also not necessarily true. If two players are having more or less equal seasons but one player puts the team on his back and carries them to the post season – that’s valuable.

    Additionally, Trout didn’t play for the first month of the season. By the time he got here Cabrera had already helped the Tigers win games. That’s not Trout’s fault, but it is what it is. Both players had great seasons and I don’t think either guy would have been a bad choice.

  22. RadioKev November 16th, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 11:59 am
    I’m just trying to figure out what part of ‘trending downward’ people don’t understand.

    Get on the numbers people all you want, but when you look at the decline of Tex and Arod, it’s pretty clear there’s no going back.

    Can they be better than last year? God willing. But is it likely? Should it be counted on??
    ——

    People said the same thing about Jeter. At the end of the day I think you have to ask is the ability still there? If it is, can it be harnessed?

  23. jacksquat November 16th, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 11:51 am
    I can’t see Alex putting up those numbers

    He was hitting .276 .358 .449 .806 before Felix broke his hand. 26 HR pace.

    People will ignore this. It’s more impressive to make a long post about how Arod is completely done. To say he is injury prone despite having no control over getting hit by a pitch.

  24. DONNYBROOK November 16th, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    You absolutely KNOW you should rely on your own eyes, when the Stat Heads are Attempting to prop-up A-Rod. Gonna be Fun holding them accountable in 2013.

  25. Patrick November 16th, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    Chip,

    Whether or not their team makes the postseason is irrelevant. We have ways of measuring value that ignores what team a player plays on. A player that offers the most value is the best player. The definitions are literally the same.

    Also, the Angels had a better record than the Tigers so you are essentially penalizing Trout for playing in the AL West.

    Trout was the most valuable player in MLB this year, he was the best player in MLB this year, he was the player of the year … how many more ways can we say this?

  26. AAA November 16th, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    Don’t think Rodriguez has been the same since the hip injury and quite likely won’t be. IMO, his baseball instincts will always allow him to contribute at a 20 homer, 90 RBI, .800+ OPS level, but I don’t imagine he’s ever close to the player he was in ’07.

  27. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    If you take Trout off the Angels, true, they win fewer games; but if you remove Cabrera from the Tigers they also win fewer games but in their case they don’t make the post season.

    —————–

    If the Angels call up Trout sooner, do they make the playoffs?

    I always think these arguments are a little weak.. I’ve always maintained they should change the title of the award to the Best Player Award because that word ‘valuable’ is open to way too much interpretation. But it’s always been that way, and different generations of voters have a different sense of what ‘valuable’ means.

  28. Patrick November 16th, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    Also not necessarily true. If two players are having more or less equal seasons but one player puts the team on his back and carries them to the post season – that’s valuable.

    Additionally, Trout didn’t play for the first month of the season. By the time he got here Cabrera had already helped the Tigers win games. That’s not Trout’s fault, but it is what it is. Both players had great seasons and I don’t think either guy would have been a bad choice.

    It’s absolutely true. Do teams get bonus wins for victories in the month of september? 1 win == 1 win

    The crazy thing is, despite playing in fewer games than Cabrera, Trout was STILL significantly more valuable.

  29. Mike Ri November 16th, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    People will ignore this. It?s more impressive to make a long post about how Arod is completely done. To say he is injury prone despite having no control over getting hit by a pitch.

    ——————-

    I don’t think anyone was saying he’s completely done ……. i just found jerkfaces numbers a little more optomistic than a mine or a few others on here

  30. DONNYBROOK November 16th, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    I guess all these Trout Guys must wantta recount. So does Mitt.

  31. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    Kev – My point though isn’t that they can’t be better than last year but that they still won’t be the players we signed up for. Jeter only had one down year, so his ‘bounce back’ has gotten overblown by a lot, IMO.

  32. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    These other guys are losing like 50-100 points off of all their stats year by year.

  33. Yankee Trader November 16th, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    Until later

    Have a great day.

    Would certainly be nice if we knew that Kuroda and Mo were locked up, along with a phone call from Andy that he’s coming back, before Thanksgiving.

  34. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    I have to say, the one thing that has surprised me is how much people have been evoking Trout not playing in April….. that’s really not an argument I understand at all. It was the Angels’ choice.

  35. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    . i just found jerkfaces numbers a little more optomistic than a mine or a few others on here

    My numbers weren’t optimism, they were simply what happened before he got hit by the pitch. He still has it in him.

  36. jacksquat November 16th, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    Mike Ri November 16th, 2012 at 12:09 pm
    People will ignore this. It?s more impressive to make a long post about how Arod is completely done. To say he is injury prone despite having no control over getting hit by a pitch.

    ——————-

    I don’t think anyone was saying he’s completely done ……. i just found jerkfaces numbers a little more optomistic than a mine or a few others on here

    JF’s numbers aren’t “optimistic”, they are about what Arod would have done if he hadn’t been taken out by Felix.

  37. yankeefeminista November 16th, 2012 at 12:20 pm

    Alex shouldn’t have been counted on in 2012 for middle of the lineup production; that was my concern when we traded hitting for pitching. Yanks realized this one year too late. They now must know they need to make a move for a bona fide middle of order hitter. I still think Alex can be productive for us, but as I’ve been saying for two years, it’s on the Yanks not Alex for expecting him to be the old Alex. However, if he can stay healthy, I expect that Alex in 2013 will be better than the 2012 version; he had good AB’s most of the season until his infamous conclusion when his bat speed was painfully slow. I expect better, but just don’t rely on Alex for past power or middle of the order production, Yanks. Anything we get beyond 2012 Alex will be a bonus. I’d also love to see Alex put up 2011 numbers vs RHP. And I think he can do that. Here’s hoping.

  38. longtimefan November 16th, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    SOS, different day, all ownership cares about is a healthy bottom line, not wins or championships that all died with George, unlike George the boys are owners not fans

  39. blake November 16th, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    “You know the best way for the Yankees to improve their team without adding payroll? Get more out of their current players.”

    And if hadnt worn a hole through my old boots I wouldn’t have to buy new ones……

  40. austinmac November 16th, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    Maybe the storm knocked out the Yankees hot stove. Or perhaps the phone system.

    With respect to AROD, we all fervently hope he is not the player he looked like after his return. Maybe his hand wasn’t right. That guy can’t play. We need at least some of the former AROD.

    Are the Yankees really relying on;

    AROD bouncing back?

    Jeter recovering from his ankle injury and having the same kind of year?

    Tex bouncing back after several years of decline?

    Gardner and likely Ichiro provide corner OF punch?

    Granderson can hit over .240 again?

    These things plus several holes need to be favorably filled or it will be an awfully long season.

  41. blake November 16th, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    Waiting around to get more production out of the Yankees current roster is a really bad idea….. That’s an ok plan if you’re the KC Royals and have a lineup full of 22 year olds…..when you have a lineup full of guys over 30 (and some over 35)…..they are much more likely to get worse than better

  42. jacksquat November 16th, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    In 2013, with no major time missed, Alex is capable of .280/.360, 25 hr, 90 rbi. That’s above average for a 3B. That’s a typical number 5/6 hitter. Yes, he will likely decline over the next 5 years and the contract is an albatross, but that wasn’t the question.

  43. Patrick November 16th, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    Are the Yankees really relying on;

    AROD bouncing back? They are relying on him to play like he did pre wrist injury.

    Jeter recovering from his ankle injury and having the same kind of year? yep

    Tex bouncing back after several years of decline? yep

    Gardner and likely Ichiro provide corner OF punch? doubt they want any power from either player, just good defense and getting on base.

    Granderson can hit over .240 again? yep

    Basically the 2013 Yankees will be a team full of aging veterans and players coming off injury + Cano. Unless Cashman makes a big trade (and I’m no longer convinced that’s the right way to go), 2013 is going to be a long year.

  44. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    I’d like our 4, 5, 6 to be: Cano, Arod and Tex.

    Some combo of Gardner, Jeter, Ichiro and Granderson can be your 1-3. I prefer Granderson in the 7 hole.

    It’s not a bad line up by any means.. it’s just a matter of getting consistent production and being able to sub when these guys (Tex, Arod, Jeter, Gardner) eventually get injured.

  45. austinmac November 16th, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    Patrick,

    I fear 2013 will look like the good old days in 2014-2016.

  46. austinmac November 16th, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    Shame,

    I “d like our 4-7 to be: Cano, a guy who can hit, Tex and AROD

  47. Patrick November 16th, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    I fear 2013 will look like the good old days in 2014-2016.

    It all depends on what the minor league system produces. Heathcott, Williams, Sanchez, Austin, etc .. we need at least 2 to become above average MLB players. If that happens I think the Yankees can do well in 2014-2016.

  48. yanks61 November 16th, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    In case no one has already posted this, let me throw you a change of pace:

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com.....le5362022/

  49. jacksquat November 16th, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    Which do you prefer:

    Arod: 280 avg, 360 obp, 25 hr

    Tex: 250 avg, 330 obp, 33 hr

  50. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    @LoHudYankees

    Anybody else watching “Modern Marvels: Corn” right now?

    Chad you should be reading the comment section!

  51. austinmac November 16th, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    JS,

    I would settle for both right now.

  52. jacksquat November 16th, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    That’s probably around what we’ll get. I think I prefer Alex’s approach to Tex’s.

  53. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    Patrick November 16th, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    Chip,

    Whether or not their team makes the postseason is irrelevant. We have ways of measuring value that ignores what team a player plays on. A player that offers the most value is the best player. The definitions are literally the same.

    Also, the Angels had a better record than the Tigers so you are essentially penalizing Trout for playing in the AL West.

    Trout was the most valuable player in MLB this year, he was the best player in MLB this year, he was the player of the year … how many more ways can we say this?
    ———————–

    Value and best don’t have to mean the same thing, not in any context. A classic car is not the best car, it is inferior in numerous ways to today’s car options, but it is more valuable than a more recent model of the same vehicle. Value is not an absolute, it’s vague and thus contextual. For example, during their championship years, there were better players on the Yankees than Rivera, but the argument could easily be made that the most valuable player was Rivera for how he impacted the back end of games.

    I’ve always believed that the MVP can’t come from a team that doesn’t make the playoffs because if you remove that player from the team then the team still wouldn’t have made the playoffs so, no matter how good his season was, his value to the overall success of the team is limited. The team could have missed the playoffs without him the same as they did with him. Now, it’s possible that contention smacks in the face of advanced statistical metrics, but the fact is that the title “Most Valuable Player” is, in and of itself, vague enough to lend to such interpretations.

  54. 4 NYY November 16th, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    After all the discourse about the MVP choice, let it be known that a certain Al Kaline had quite a year at age 20. Many numbers better than Trouts. 2nd in MVP vote, I think.

    The triple crown iced it for Cabrera and I see that as correct choice, although I would have preferred Trout.

    A-Rod needs to be aggressive and swing the damn bat. See ball, hit ball. Not so much guessing.

  55. Shame Spencer November 16th, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    austinmac November 16th, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    Shame,

    I “d like our 4-7 to be: Cano, a guy who can hit, Tex and AROD

    ————-

    Oh well yeah, that is Team Greedys stance… if it were up to me, Joe Mauer would be hitting behind Cano while JUp and Headley fill out the tops and bottoms of the order lol…

  56. Patrick November 16th, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    Any MVP argument that penalizes Trout for the Angels not making the playoffs is dumb because the Angels had a better record than the Tigers.

  57. DONNYBROOK November 16th, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    - THOSE PREDICTING A-ROD HITS 26 HR’s IN 2013 -

    (1) JERKY

    (2) SQUATTER

    – THOSE PREDICTING A-ROD CONTINUES TO DECLINE IN 2013 -

    (1) YANKEE UNIVERSE

  58. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    Huh? I never said that

  59. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    Patrick November 16th, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    Any MVP argument that penalizes Trout for the Angels not making the playoffs is dumb because the Angels had a better record than the Tigers.
    —————-

    It penalizes him for two things that it probably shouldn’t:

    1. Team not making the playoffs.
    2. Team not calling him up to open the season.

    But the fact is he IS penalized for those two things.

    End of the day, it’s not as if Miguel Cabrera was an unworthy recipient, we’re not talking the Juan Gonzalez fiasco here.

  60. 4 NYY November 16th, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    Ernie Banks did quite well with MVP awards on bad Cubs teams. ( aren’t they always ?)

  61. AAA November 16th, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    26 homers isn’t an unreasonable expectation assuming good health for most of the season.

  62. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    But the fact is he IS penalized for those two things.

    But for an MVP vote he shouldn’t be. Team making the playoffs is up to the team. No 1 player is responsible for that. The Tigers don’t make the playoffs without Verlander or Prince Fielder.

  63. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    Winning percentage of team when player is in lineup:

    Cabrera – .540
    Trout – .580

    So who is more valuable there?

  64. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    But the fact is he IS penalized for those two things.

    But for an MVP vote he shouldn’t be. Team making the playoffs is up to the team. No 1 player is responsible for that. The Tigers don’t make the playoffs without Verlander or Prince Fielder.
    ——————

    Correct, no one player is responsible for it. But in this case you have two worthy candidates and one made the playoffs and the other did not then you have to ask what impact removing those players from their respective teams has on the success of the team. In Trout’s case the Angels don’t make the playoffs but they didn’t make the playoffs with him. In Cabrera’s case the Tigers wouldn’t have made the playoffs without him. Clearly they also wouldn’t have made the playoffs without Prince and/or Verlander, but neither of those guys were in the mix.

    If Jose Bautista had the same statistical season that Cabrera did and it was between he and Trout for MVP I think Trout would’ve gotten it.

  65. Patrick November 16th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    Also in this context, best == most valuable. We aren’t talking about classic cars ..

    How can best not be the most valuable? What if i said … if you have Mike Trout on your team you will win 10 more games than if you didn’t have him. And if you had Cabrera on your team you will win 7 more games than if you didn’t have him. Which player is better? Which is more valuable? Mike Trout, Mike Trout.

    The goal is to win the most games in the regular season. The player that helps you win the most games is the best player and the most valuable player.

    Lets put it this way, if you put Mike Trout on the Tigers in 2012 and Miguel Cabrera on the Angels and everything else stays equal it is likely that the Tigers would win more games and the Angels win less games.

  66. DONNYBROOK November 16th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    Check your 11:51 and 12:15 posts. Of course, another hour has passed, so maybe your Now whistling another tune.
    – THOSE PREDICTING A-ROD HITS 26 HR’s IN 2013

    (1) JERKY

    (2) SQUATTER

    (3) RADIO

  67. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    In Trout’s case the Angels don’t make the playoffs but they didn’t make the playoffs with him. In Cabrera’s case the Tigers wouldn’t have made the playoffs without him.

    But if you put Trout on the Tigers they win way more games, and if you put Cabrera on the angels they still don’t make the playoffs. A team making the playoffs is about many more things than 1 players contributions. Strength of schedule, division, etc.

    The angels won more games! In a harder division! The AL West was lightyears ahead of the AL Central.

  68. 4 NYY November 16th, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    The old argument that a team doesn’t make the playoffs without a certain player is a little hackneyed. Someone would replace them if not there, and would put up some kind of numbers.
    So, it’s only true if their replacement is horrible.

    Absolutely true that no one player carries a team for entire year.

  69. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    Check your 11:51 and 12:15 posts. Of course, another hour has passed, so maybe your Now whistling another tune.

    Well, bumpkin, you’re just proving you can’t read. Stating the facts of A-rod’s performance before injury is not a prediction of the future. Next!

  70. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    The reason why Trout is the most valuable player is because he performs just as well in every phase of the game. He can hit nearly as well as Cabrera, who is a first baseman where as Trout is a centerfielder which is insane, and he brings elite defense when he isn’t hitting, and when he is on the bases he is incredibly fast & can steal at a very high rate.

    That is what it means to be most valuable. Not 1 dimensional player who was lucky his team had Justin Verlander.

  71. Patrick November 16th, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    If you take Austin Jackson off the Tigers they miss the playoffs. Does that mean Austin Jackson is the most valuable player?

  72. 4 NYY November 16th, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    It’s over and done ! Fuggetaboutit

    Think Yankees !

  73. DONNYBROOK November 16th, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    “He still has it in him”, was your comment After posting his Projected numbers, if his hand had Not been broken. You said it, BUT feel free to retract it.

  74. Patrick November 16th, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    If you take Cabrera and put him on the Twins they still don’t make the playoffs, therefore he shouldn’t be the MVP right?

  75. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    It’s over and done ! Fuggetaboutit

    Well this is true. I just wish the Yankees would DO SOMETHING so I can stop arguing about an MVP vote that doesn’t matter.

    Good thing Jeter didn’t get an extra 2 million from MVP votes. Feinsand almost f’d that one up.

  76. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    “He still has it in him”, was your comment After posting his Projected numbers, if his hand had Not been broken. You said it, BUT feel free to retract it.

    A-rod still has it in him to be an effective hitter, which is not a direct prediction of a slash line or a number of HRs he will hit. It was a rebuttal to Mike Ri’s prediction of drastic further decline.

    But do continue to slither your way around your misunderstanding of the English language. That ‘issa burn’, as you put it in your quaint hillbilly dialect.

  77. 4 NYY November 16th, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 1:22 pm
    It’s over and done ! Fuggetaboutit

    Well this is true. I just wish the Yankees would DO SOMETHING so I can stop arguing about an MVP vote that doesn’t matter.

    Good thing Jeter didn’t get an extra 2 million from MVP votes. Feinsand almost f’d that one up.

    ================

    Lol

  78. DONNYBROOK November 16th, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    I submit JERKY’s own testimony at 11:51 and 12:15. CASE CLOSED

  79. Patrick November 16th, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    I submit JERKY’s own testimony at 11:51 and 12:15. CASE CLOSED

    I’m sorry but your submission has been denied and you have been held in contempt of court for impersonating a judge. Bailiff, remove this man

  80. AAA November 16th, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    I submit JERKY’s own testimony at 11:51 and 12:15. CASE CLOSED

    =========================

    As evidence of what?

    Both pointed out what had happened. Neither offered predictions.

  81. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    I submit every stupid thing you say, which is everything always, case closed.

  82. jacksquat November 16th, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    Good thing Jeter didn’t get an extra 2 million from MVP votes. Feinsand almost f’d that one up.

    That was probably partly his intent. I’m surprised he didn’t put Jeter #1 and Hughes wasn’t on there.

  83. 4 NYY November 16th, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    I don’t see Yanks as participants in any significant F A’s without moving a big contract.

    $ 189 million is not about a spending spree at this time.

    They’re mainly interested in getting back the guys we had.

  84. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    Patrick November 16th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    The goal is to win the most games in the regular season. The player that helps you win the most games is the best player and the most valuable player.

    ———–

    But by this logic then the MVP needs to come from the team with the best record regardless of individual performance.

  85. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    But by this logic then the MVP needs to come from the team with the best record regardless of individual performance.

    No, not if you’re able to divorce the teams wins from the concept of a player who helps a team win the most. Cabrera only helps in 1 aspect. Trout in 3.

  86. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    But I mean, by most of the logic used to suggest Cabrera is the MVP, you ought to disqualify everyone not on a playoff team, or everyone not on the team with the best record.

    Why bother entertaining anything else?

  87. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    Patrick November 16th, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    If you take Cabrera and put him on the Twins they still don’t make the playoffs, therefore he shouldn’t be the MVP right?
    —————

    Perhaps, but then if you take Trout and put him on the Twins they also still don’t make the playoffs – therefore he shouldn’t be the MVP either.

    Again, my point is that because they both had MVP caliber seasons the tie, in this case, goes to the player who’s team had the most success. If Cabrera had the season he had with the Twins or Blue Jays – he probably would not have been MVP.

  88. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    But I mean, by most of the logic used to suggest Cabrera is the MVP, you ought to disqualify everyone not on a playoff team, or everyone not on the team with the best record.

    Why bother entertaining anything else?
    —————-

    No, what I’m saying is that when you have two players who both have MVP seasons then team results come into play.

  89. Patrick November 16th, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    But by this logic then the MVP needs to come from the team with the best record regardless of individual performance.

    No it doesn’t because we have statistics that show us who contributed the most to his team’s wins. A team’s win-loss record literally does not matter a bit when determining who is most valuable.

  90. DONNYBROOK November 16th, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    Feel free to appeal, or simply retract your, “he’s still got it in him” statement, which followed your 26 HR projection.

  91. Patrick November 16th, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    Chip,

    You are under the misconception that Cabrera and Trout had equally good seasons. This isn’t true at all. Trout was significantly more valuable. If they were equal in every way I could see why you would need a tie breaker. But they weren’t equal, Trout was MUCH MUCH better.

    Cabrera had a great season, Trout had a legendary season.

  92. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    No, what I’m saying is that when you have two players who both have MVP seasons then team results come into play.

    Well you can say Cabrera had an MVP season but when you factor in all facets of a baseball players contributions it isn’t close enough to go to an inane tie breaker like team results.

    If Trout was going against a .900 OPS gg centerfielder with 50 steals then maybe you can parse down to team results, but he was going against a .900 OPS fringe thirdbaseman who can only steal cookies from the cookie jar.

  93. DONNYBROOK November 16th, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    I believe if Miggy had Not won the Triple Crown, Trout woulda won the MVP. The Triple Crown all by itself, was too much for Trout to overcome.

  94. Patrick November 16th, 2012 at 1:44 pm

    Feel free to appeal, or simply retract your, “he’s still got it in him” statement, which followed your 26 HR projection.

    I put forth a motion to muzzle DONNYBROOK. Motion carries!

  95. 4 NYY November 16th, 2012 at 1:44 pm

    Ernie Banks just wanted to play “two.”

    The way MVP voting has happened over the years is nothing set in concrete, although the same rules for voting are still there.

    Over & out.

  96. jacksquat November 16th, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    Forget the muzzle, a lobotomy is in order.

  97. AAA November 16th, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    but he was going against a .900 OPS fringe thirdbaseman who can only steal cookies from the cookie jar

    =========================

    To be fair, it’s a 1.000 OPS 3B, but your point remains.

  98. tucker November 16th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    ARod would be a fine No. 2 hitter. For the most part, he takes good at bats, gets on base and has some power. More singles and fewer extra base hits.

    The problem is, he is no longer what he is paid to be — a .900-plus OPS guy that opposing team’s need to plan around. He was that guy. No more.

  99. UnKnown November 16th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/.....z2CP7llp00

    ——–

    Sherman seemed to predict the Marlins/Jays trade, to a certain extent, during the summer.

  100. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    To be fair, it’s a 1.000 OPS 3B, but your point remains.

    .999 OPS :) Trout was at .963, so close enough. And Cabrera was third baseman in name only. Fringe awful defense at the position.

  101. DONNYBROOK November 16th, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    Motions inna courtroom do Not “carry”. They are ultimately approved or denied. Class dismissed.

  102. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    Patrick November 16th, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    Chip,

    You are under the misconception that Cabrera and Trout had equally good seasons. This isn’t true at all. Trout was significantly more valuable. If they were equal in every way I could see why you would need a tie breaker. But they weren’t equal, Trout was MUCH MUCH better.

    Cabrera had a great season, Trout had a legendary season.
    ——————

    No, they both had great seasons in very different ways. Cabrera had a legendary season in the “old school” method (ie Triple Crown) whereas Trout had a legendary season for the “new school.” Trout played better defense, but since defense has never once been used in determining the MVP before I don’t see any reason to lash the writers who chose to overlook it this time.

    If Josh Hamilton had hit one more HR than Cabrera does Miguel win the MVP? I don’t know. Is that fair to Mike Trout that he lost the MVP in part because Cabrera did something huge in a historical context? Maybe not. But it happened; and again, I can’t say that Trout didn’t deserve the award any more than I can say that Cabrera didn’t deserve the award.

    What this amounts to is an argument between two groups over something I don’t have a stake in, which is whether advanced statistical metrics are more important (or valuable) than previously used methods in determining player performance.

  103. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    No, what I’m saying is that when you have two players who both have MVP seasons then team results come into play.

    Well you can say Cabrera had an MVP season but when you factor in all facets of a baseball players contributions it isn’t close enough to go to an inane tie breaker like team results.

    If Trout was going against a .900 OPS gg centerfielder with 50 steals then maybe you can parse down to team results, but he was going against a .900 OPS fringe thirdbaseman who can only steal cookies from the cookie jar.
    —————-

    Face -

    Like I just said above – I don’t think that the BBWAA has ever factored defense into the MVP debate. Right or wrong I’m not going to hold it against them for not starting now.

  104. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    , but since defense has never once been used in determining the MVP before I don’t see any reason to lash the writers who chose to overlook it this time.

    Woah this is a loaded sentence, Chip. Defense is listed on the criteria for voting for the MVP! And surely you will find lots of players who were awarded the MVP for defense. Given that not every triple crown winner has won an MVP, it must surely be the case. Ichiro over Giambi? I-Rod over Manny? Jimmy Rollins over Holliday?

  105. AAA November 16th, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    Jays to sign Melky per MLBTR.

    AA is all in.

  106. Patrick November 16th, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    You can prove that Trout had a better season without any advanced statistics.

    They were about equal at the plate although Cabrera had slightly more power. Trout played a harder position defensively and played it at a very high level. Cabrera was a butcher on the field. Trout stole 50 bases, Cabrera was a liability on the base paths.

    There is nothing here about old school vs new school – that is all just BS narrative. Trout was the most valuable player by a large margin, there is literally no rational argument that proves otherwise.

  107. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    Omfg AA you are f’n up my christmas. Goddamnit, Yankees.

  108. AAA November 16th, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    2 years/$16M for Melky

  109. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    Double g-diggit. What a reasonable deal.

  110. DONNYBROOK November 16th, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    If that Entire $16 Mill is Guaranteed to Melky, the Jays are Nuts.

  111. UnKnown November 16th, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    The Hitman is fuming somewhere.

  112. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    AAA November 16th, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    Jays to sign Melky per MLBTR.

    AA is all in.
    ——————-

    Toronto is insane.

    So what’s their lineup right now:

    Reyes – SS
    Bonifacio – 2b
    Bautista – RF
    Encarnacion – DH/1b
    Lawrie – 3b
    Lind – DH/1b
    Rasmus – CF
    Melky – LF
    Arancibia – C

  113. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    If that is a batting order Melky is way too low.

  114. blake November 16th, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    That contract will be a steal for the Jays…..

  115. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    Patrick -

    My feelings are rather well summed up by Erik Boland’s tweet on the side panel.

  116. kd November 16th, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    so the jays payroll is what, 140 million now?

  117. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    If that is a batting order Melky is way too low.
    ————–

    Depends on how much of Melky’s performance the last two years was syringe enhanced. If he’s the player he was for the Giants he can be the number 3 hitter and push everyone down. Player he was for the Yankees he’s about right in the 8 spot.

  118. AAA November 16th, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    If that Entire $16 Mill is Guaranteed to Melky, the Jays are Nuts

    ===========================

    Are they? Might be the sanest deal they’ve made this week.

    Consider what a 27 year old free agent coming off an allstar season normally makes. It ain’t 2 years and $16M.

  119. Nick in SF November 16th, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    Sweet, the Melkmen will be able to visit Melky in Oakland.

  120. DONNYBROOK November 16th, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    - TALE OF 2 MELKY’s -

    (1) ATL STATS

    (2) KC\FRISCO STATS

  121. blake November 16th, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    If healthy the Jays lineup is going to be dynamic…..Yanks just let their best chance at replacing Swisher affordabley go to a division rival……

    Just keep waiting on that more production from the guys you have Cash…..

  122. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    blake November 16th, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    That contract will be a steal for the Jays…..
    ——————

    I’m shocked he got that deal. I would’ve bet anything on a 1 year “show me” deal with a club option.

    My guess is that Toronto is doing what the Yankees did with Jimmy Key and what the Nats did with Jayson Werth – overpaying to show that they should be a serious consideration for free agents now and in the future.

  123. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    Depends on how much of Melky’s performance the last two years was syringe enhanced. If he’s the player he was for the Giants he can be the number 3 hitter and push everyone down. Player he was for the Yankees he’s about right in the 8 spot.

    Chip, I really wonder what you are thinking sometimes. Look at Lind, Lawrie, and Rasmus. The NYY Melky Cabrera would hit higher than any of those dopes. The Royals Cabrera would DEFINITELY hit higher than any of those dopes. The Giants Cabrera would be right at home in the middle of the lineup as you said.

    This is like when you said Swisher would get bumped in a batting order by Lind, Overbay, & Travis Snider.

  124. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    My guess is that Toronto is doing what the Yankees did with Jimmy Key and what the Nats did with Jayson Werth – overpaying to show that they should be a serious consideration for free agents now and in the future.

    2/16 is not a Jayson Werth esque salary bus. Perspective, Chip!

  125. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    Depends on how much of Melky’s performance the last two years was syringe enhanced. If he’s the player he was for the Giants he can be the number 3 hitter and push everyone down. Player he was for the Yankees he’s about right in the 8 spot.

    Chip, I really wonder what you are thinking sometimes. Look at Lind, Lawrie, and Rasmus. The NYY Melky Cabrera would hit higher than any of those dopes. The Royals Cabrera would DEFINITELY hit higher than any of those dopes. The Giants Cabrera would be right at home in the middle of the lineup as you said.

    This is like when you said Swisher would get bumped in a batting order by Lind, Overbay, & Travis Snider.
    ——————

    I don’t remember that second part.

    As for the logic around the first part – I think Lind, Rasmus and Lawrie have better power potential than NYY version of Melky – that’s why I put them higher in the lineup.

  126. austinmac November 16th, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    The Yankees are biding their time. February is just a few months away. I kid you not.

  127. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    Lind .255 .314 .414 .729
    Lawrie .273 .324 .405 .729
    Rasmus .223 .289 .400 .689
    Bonifacio .258 .330 .316 .645

    Melky is going to hit 2nd or 5th most likely.

  128. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    My guess is that Toronto is doing what the Yankees did with Jimmy Key and what the Nats did with Jayson Werth – overpaying to show that they should be a serious consideration for free agents now and in the future.

    2/16 is not a Jayson Werth esque salary bus. Perspective, Chip!
    ————–

    I am aware – but it is an overpay. Short of them giving Josh Hamilton 200 mil it’s a fairly apt comparison.

  129. AAA November 16th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    If Melky isn’t busted for the PED thing, he’s in line for a 4-5 year deal at $11M-$12M. He’s suffering the consequences of the PED’s in this deal, but at the same time he’s getting a tremendous opportunity to redeem himself and re-enter the FA market at 29 years old. Great deal for both sides, IMO.

  130. austinmac November 16th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    Who will have higher attendance next year, the Yanks or Jays?

  131. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    Lind .255 .314 .414 .729
    Lawrie .273 .324 .405 .729
    Rasmus .223 .289 .400 .689
    Bonifacio .258 .330 .316 .645

    Melky is going to hit 2nd or 5th most likely.
    ——————

    Okie dokie.

  132. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    I don’t remember that second part.

    It was around the time when you said no team in baseball would put Swisher in the middle of their lineup. You should revisit that conversation.

  133. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    austinmac November 16th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    Who will have higher attendance next year, the Yanks or Jays?
    —————–

    Yankees.

  134. blake November 16th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    Melky was the NL batting champ and had a good 2011 also….. Regardless of what people think he’s very unlikely to just regress to being a scrub at age 27…..very good deal for the Jays…actually surprised Melky took that…. If I were him I would have done a one year deal to re-establish my value then look to clean up next year

  135. blake November 16th, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    austinmac says:
    November 16, 2012 at 2:09 pm
    Who will have higher attendance next year, the Yanks or Jays?

    TBD

  136. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    I don’t remember that second part.

    It was around the time when you said no team in baseball would put Swisher in the middle of their lineup. You should revisit that conversation.
    —————–

    You’ve memorized things I’ve written? Man you need to get out more :-)

  137. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    You’ve memorized things I’ve written? Man you need to get out more

    Memorized? Don’t flatter yourself. Remembered? Yes, because it happened :) Can’t knock how good my brain works.

  138. DONNYBROOK November 16th, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    Giving a guy $16 Mill AFTER he Fails a drug test, and admits to using, only makes wannabes More apt to use PED’s. This signing makes drug testing and it’s penalties a Joke.

  139. blake November 16th, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    I’m really looking forward to getting more production from the Yankees existing lineup next year

  140. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    blake November 16th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    Melky was the NL batting champ and had a good 2011 also….. Regardless of what people think he’s very unlikely to just regress to being a scrub at age 27…..very good deal for the Jays…actually surprised Melky took that…. If I were him I would have done a one year deal to re-establish my value then look to clean up next year
    ——————

    Not a scrub. I don’t think Melky w/o PEDs is as bad as the player the Braves saw; but I don’t think he’ll be as good as the player the Royals or Giants had either. I think he’ll be about what he was with the Yankees. Which is nothing to sneeze at…he’ll hit about .250 with 12 to 15 HR and a heck of an arm for a corner OF’er. I’m not sure if that’s worth $8m/season or not.

  141. G. Love November 16th, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    You guys are all overreacting. Everything is beautiful in Yankee-land! They have a plan after all & those of us who are not worthy shouldn’t trouble our feeble little minds with what that plan is. We should just embrace the fact that they will put 25 living breathing men into a Yankee uniform every game next season. God bless’em! They know better. We’re idiots.

  142. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    You’ve memorized things I’ve written? Man you need to get out more

    Memorized? Don’t flatter yourself. Remembered? Yes, because it happened :) Can’t knock how good my brain works.
    —————-

    I stand behind my statement :-D

  143. austinmac November 16th, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    Every day players are signed by others. The Yankees do nothing. At this moment they are a .500 team. Adding old, washed up pitchers and position players does not enhance that,

    Profit before wins. Money before fans. It cannot be clearer.

  144. DONNYBROOK November 16th, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    Refreshing to see Someone around here stand behind what they say.

  145. AAA November 16th, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    Giving a guy $16 Mill AFTER he Fails a drug test, and admits to using, only makes wannabes More apt to use PED’s. This signing makes drug testing and it’s penalties a Joke

    =======================================

    The penalty lies in what he didn’t get, which is a contract worth $30M (or more) more than the one he signed.

  146. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    austinmac November 16th, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    Every day players are signed by others. The Yankees do nothing. At this moment they are a .500 team. Adding old, washed up pitchers and position players does not enhance that,

    Profit before wins. Money before fans. It cannot be clearer.
    ————–

    I get the anger but in fairness there have been 4 players signed. Only one of which is one the Yankees were interested in (though any of the four could have been useful to the team)

  147. Nick in SF November 16th, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    “If I were him I would have done a one year deal to re-establish my value then look to clean up next year”

    So why did Melky take this deal? Maybe his agents advised him to take the best two-year deal he could get so he wouldn’t be tempted to maximize his output in an unsavory way in a single season.

  148. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    Gonna be real interesting for the Yankees if they cannot even afford 8 million for an outfielder. They are aware Granderson is a free agent after next season right?

  149. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    AAA November 16th, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    Giving a guy $16 Mill AFTER he Fails a drug test, and admits to using, only makes wannabes More apt to use PED’s. This signing makes drug testing and it’s penalties a Joke

    =======================================

    The penalty lies in what he didn’t get, which is a contract worth $30M (or more) more than the one he signed.
    ————–

    Yeah but I can see where Donny has a rare salient point. If Melky goes out and has two good years then he’ll hit free agency at 29 still able to clean up.

    If he doesn’t, well $8m/year based on stats he built while using steroids is a heck of a nice golden parachute.

  150. Benny Blanco November 16th, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    Hey, At least we have Raul.. He’s so cool.

  151. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    Nick in SF November 16th, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    “If I were him I would have done a one year deal to re-establish my value then look to clean up next year”

    So why did Melky take this deal? Maybe his agents advised him to take the best two-year deal he could get so he wouldn’t be tempted to maximize his output in an unsavory way in a single season.
    ——————–

    Risk v Reward.

    If Melky had taken a 1 year deal and hit .250 with 12 HR he wouldn’t get anywhere near this contract next year. If he has two good years then he hits free agency again at 29 and can still clean up.

  152. brianlopez22 November 16th, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    Jerkface,

    Granderson will not be a Yankee in 2014.

  153. tucker November 16th, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    Jays could use another starter. Hope they don’t go after Kuroda now.

  154. DONNYBROOK November 16th, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    Your Now gonna have young players realize they can make a Guaranteed $16 Mill, even if they get caught using PED’s. Not a good message.

  155. blake November 16th, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    With the Red Sox down and the Yankees aging and refusing to spend money…..unthink it’s pretty clear that Toronto sees this as an opening for them to strike….. And they are….

  156. austinmac November 16th, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    Blake,

    Unless the Yankees have found Ponce de Leon’s fountain of testoterone, only Hal and Brian believe it increased production.

    When will the writers note the disaster ahead and the fans close their wallets?

  157. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    Gonna be real interesting for the Yankees if they cannot even afford 8 million for an outfielder. They are aware Granderson is a free agent after next season right?
    —————-

    I don’t think this is a case of afford vs. not afford. I don’t think the Yankees would’ve been interested in Melky at any price. When he was asked if Melky’s steroid suspension surprised him Cashman said not really because they had evaluated Melky as a below average regular or above average 4th outfielder. Certainly that’s not the guy you invest $8m/year in.

  158. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    Granderson will not be a Yankee in 2014.

    No duh that is the point. This team, for whatever reason, can’t put any money into 2014 despite Granderson coming off the books and them having only 1 OFer for 2014. And that OFer is Gardner.

    This is so far from ideal. Melky for 2 years 8 AAV would have been a real nice cushion.

  159. brianlopez22 November 16th, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    “Hey, At least we have Raul.. He’s so cool.”

    Hey, maybe we should ask Paul O’Neill to leave the booth and suit up.
    And while we’re at it, let’s sign Jamie Moyer to pitch and Yogi to catch.

  160. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    Cashman said not really because they had evaluated Melky as a below average regular or above average 4th outfielder

    Dunno how much we should be trusting the Yankees evaluations.

  161. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    I’m telling you:

    Carl Pavano, Jason Giambi, Carlos Lee – any of these guys might be Yankees.

  162. G. Love November 16th, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    Why worry about things we can’t control?

    The sky is blue. There’s copious amounts of oxygen in the air for our lungs. Black Friday is coming with all kinds of shopping treasures to be had if you avoid trampling.

    All I need to know is that the NY Yankees will take the field next year with able bodied men in uniform.

    The rest of this silly kooky conversation I just don’t care about. Ptooey.

    As long as the YES network still broadcasts a beautiful crisp HD signal and Yankee Stadium still stands proudly in the Bronx, that’s all I need.

    Where’s my milk of the poppy?

  163. brianlopez22 November 16th, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    Jerkface, apologies, I didn’t see your POV.
    Much clearer. Thanks for clarifying…
    And by the way, I agree.

    Why did we build SWB a new stadium? we could just let the AAA team be the MLB team.

  164. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    The Yankees were willing to risk 20 million guaranteed on Nick Swisher coming off a super down year, where are the guys who made that deal? Their risk aversion has been stupefying.

  165. austinmac November 16th, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    Chip,

    The fact the Yankees aren’t interested in the signed players simply mean they cost too much. They will not be interested in anyone with multi-year contract demands. That doesn’t mean they are not on a clear path of significantly worsening the team.

  166. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    The Yankees were willing to risk 20 million guaranteed on Nick Swisher coming off a super down year, where are the guys who made that deal? Their risk aversion has been stupefying.
    —————-

    Even more baffling. The only free agent we’ve heard that the Yankees are willing to consider on a multi year deal is Russ Martin…

  167. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    If the only free agent the Yankees manage to retain is Soriano I am going to mutiny.

  168. austinmac November 16th, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    Brian,

    Perhaps, the SWB folks knew their team would be more interesting the the Yankees.

  169. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    The Yankees were willing to risk 20 million guaranteed on Nick Swisher coming off a super down year, where are the guys who made that deal? Their risk aversion has been stupefying.
    ————

    That was no risk. The Yankees knew full well that he wasn’t going to take the QO.

  170. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    That was no risk. The Yankees knew full well that he wasn’t going to take the QO.

    No their original trade for him was the risk. They received no money in the deal so took on the 20 mil he had guaranteed.

  171. Nick in SF November 16th, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    Jerkface, I think the Yankees, rightly or wrongly, just don’t like/trust Melky.

    We constructed a nice forgiveness/second chance scenario here, but it was only a fantasy.

    None of Melky’s other previous teams took a risk on bringing him back either. For Melky’s sake I hope team #5 likes him more at the end of the relationship.

  172. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    2013 New York Yankees:

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    Granderson – LF
    Alex
    Cano
    Tex
    Ibanez – RF
    Giambi – DH
    Rod Barajas – C
    Brett Gardner – CF

    Bench: Andruw Jones, Russ Adams, Chris Singleton, Chris Stewart

    Rotation:

    CC
    Hughes
    Nova
    Phelps
    Pavano

    Pen:
    RHP: Rivera, Robertson, Joba, Aardsma, Warren/Montgomery
    LHP: Logan, Cabral

  173. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    Jerkface, I think the Yankees, rightly or wrongly, just don’t like/trust Melky.

    Well yea, that is obvious, but if they are going to put together a winning team on a budget they probably need to be able to forgive/re-evaluate/not place so much emphasis on clubhouse.

  174. Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    Chip,

    That team is scary. Did you mean a different Chris Singleton? Or are they really gonna put a guy who hasn’t played since 2005 on the bench?

  175. UnKnown November 16th, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    GLove – I don’t think the Yankees have changed the interlocking NY on their Uniforms, so we’re all good. That interlocking NY is all I need, personally.

  176. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    the reason I posted that roster by the way is so that I can feel good about the team if it doesn’t happen that way.

  177. Benny Blanco November 16th, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 2:27 pm
    If the only free agent the Yankees manage to retain is Soriano I am going to mutiny.

    =======================

    Jerkface, we don’t need you going 2-2. you had a mutiny last year when the yanks traded montero…lol

  178. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    Jerkface November 16th, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    Chip,

    That team is scary. Did you mean a different Chris Singleton? Or are they really gonna put a guy who hasn’t played since 2005 on the bench?
    ————-

    I keep typing Chris Singleton when I mean Chris Dickerson.

  179. G. Love November 16th, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    UnKnown,

    Even if they did change the interlocking NY & turned the pinstripes to polka dots, I would support it because they did it in their infinite wisdom which we should never question. Ever.

  180. brianlopez22 November 16th, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    I have some amendments…

    2013 New York Yankees:

    Jeter
    Granderson – LF
    Alex – DH
    Cano
    Tex
    O’Neill – RF
    Nettles – 3B
    Yogi – C
    Brett Gardner – CF

    Bench: Andruw Jones, Russ Adams, Chris Dickerson, Chris Stewart

    Rotation:

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    Hughes
    Nova
    Phelps
    Andy Hawkins

    Pen:
    RHP: Rivera, Robertson, Joba, Aardsma, Warren/Montgomery
    LHP: Logan, Cabral

  181. Chip November 16th, 2012 at 2:41 pm

    According to Peter Gammons: Scott Boras told the Yankees they should sign Soriano because “no team in the last 50 years has won a championship with a closer 40 or older.”

  182. Tyler November 16th, 2012 at 2:41 pm

    The BBWA website has Miguel Montero listed as a Marlin on their MVP ballot… for a minute I thought that happened and then I remembered that would require Jeffrey Loria to take on more payroll.

  183. jacksquat November 16th, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    Can’t wait for the Ibanez signing! :mad: :mad: :mad:

  184. UnKnown November 16th, 2012 at 2:43 pm

    “Even if they did change the interlocking NY & turned the pinstripes to polka dots, I would support it because they did it in their infinite wisdom which we should never question. Ever.”

    LOL, that’s hilarious. Nicely done. Makes me wonder how much stupid can possibly be spiked into the kool-aid. I am guessing we will find out. It has to be pretty strong.

  185. Nick in SF November 16th, 2012 at 2:44 pm

    Melky! :arrow:

  186. bobharrah November 16th, 2012 at 3:52 pm

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    Oh, sorry, I’m new here, at LoHud, but been a die-hard Yankee fan since 1958, probably longer than most of you have been alive.

    And sorry, once more, I need to translate “O-Roids”. Many use A-Rod or A-Roids as a knickname. I take it one step further, as my opinion of him dictates. “Roids” is self-explainatory. “O” refers to his box score, “0-4″ with 3 Ks and a can of corn. I have yet to figure out how to add that iconic ‘puzzled scowl’ that is the look on his face after his fails, again, to do any damage at bat.

    To be fair, I have no problem with his fielding/defense….

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