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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Week in review: The new look Blue Jays

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 18, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

This was the week when the market started to show some real life, especially in Toronto.

The winter’s first blockbuster was completed when the Marlins shipped Josh Johnson, Mark Buehrle, Jose Reyes and two others to the Blue Jays in a 12-player deal. It was a massive salary dump for Miami, but it was only the beginning for Toronto, which promptly agreed to a two-year deal with Melky Cabrera. The Blue Jays roster has been massively rebuilt, and it’s only the middle of November.

Meanwhile, the Yankees had another relatively quiet week. No major moves, no big announcements and Brian Cashman once again promised to be patient in a market with high free agents costs and costly trade demands.

• This was awards week in baseball. None of the Yankees won anything, and Derek Jeter’s seventh-place finish meant he missed out on a contract incentive that would have paid him an additional $2 million next season had he finished just one spot higher. Robinson Cano was fourth in the MVP voting and Joe Girardi was fifth in Manager of the Year.

• Speaking of Cano, he became a U.S. citizen this week. Congrats.

• Girardi acknowledged that there’s at least a chance Jeter won’t be ready for Opening Day. With Jeter coming off a broken ankle, the Yankees might need to have a backup plan in place. Should that be Eduardo Nunez?

• There was a report that the Yankees have some interest in Marlins starter Ricky Nolasco, but the Marlins team president said Nolasco will not be part of the Marlins salary dumping winter.

• The Yankees Triple-A team selected a new nickname. Welcome to the world of the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre RailRiders. I gotta say, it’s growing on me.

• Torii Hunter, considered a potential right field solution for the Yankees, officially signed a two-year deal with the Tigers. That was the first big free agent signing of the winter, coming just a few days before Cabrera’s deal with the Tigers.

• Speaking of free agent signings, a report out of Los Angeles said that Hiroki Kuroda has told friends that he would prefer playing in Southern California next season so that he can be near his children. Not great news for the Yankees.

• The Arizona Fall League season came to an end with Yankees prospects Slade Heathcott and David Adams finishing with some of the best numbers in the league. Adams was named a finalists for the league’s sportsmanship award.

Associated Press photo

 
 

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128 Responses to “Week in review: The new look Blue Jays”

  1. joeman November 18th, 2012 at 9:04 am

    Yankee headline of the week…The Yankees Triple-A team selected a new nickname. Welcome to the world of the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre RailRiders. WOW!!!!times have changed

  2. joeman November 18th, 2012 at 9:10 am

    more empty seats and lower TV ratings = 2013 Yankees

  3. austinmac November 18th, 2012 at 9:11 am

    In other news, Cashman is obsessed with not entering into any contracts for 2014. Great plan. They can also plan what to do with the empty seats.

  4. blake November 18th, 2012 at 9:13 am

    I’m going to catch up on my sleep next summer when the Yanks will have me out by 8:30 most nights……

  5. joeman November 18th, 2012 at 9:18 am

    years past this blog was still loaded with peeps ..trade & FA talk filling Yankee needs..this year it’s a ghost town around here…we can see where this is going, only hope is that the now ownership looks to sell the team

  6. Against All Odds November 18th, 2012 at 9:24 am

    Did anyone take a look at the MLBTR off season outlook for the Yankees

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....nkees.html

  7. austinmac November 18th, 2012 at 9:25 am

    Sherman’s article is about the first to discuss the impacts of non-spending on finances. I expect many more, particularly in July when there are 20,000 people at the games. That is the team’s process of destroying the brand George spent much of his life building.

    He made the team into one of the most valuable franchises by showing fans he was one of them and determined to win. It was of little value after the CBS frugality.

    They don’t see the economic forest for the trees.

  8. yankee21 November 18th, 2012 at 9:26 am

    In other news, Cashman is obsessed with not entering into any contracts for 2014. Great plan. They can also plan what to do with the empty seats….

    I wonder if NY ownership will be just as obsessed in lowering ticket/concession/merchandise prices since the product they are trying to sell will be mediocre?

    NY fans are not stupid Hal and Brian, they will not pay premium dollars to see a garbage team and will not support a team in which the owner does not give a rip about winning championships but only about cost cutting.

    Hal is a fraud and Brian Cashman is incompetent.

  9. austinmac November 18th, 2012 at 9:28 am

    Joeman,

    Yes, the board’s slow activity is a big indicator of fan indifference to this uninteresting team. Please sell before we have another dozen years of second division. Hal must be reading CBS book on how to operate a franchise.

  10. blake November 18th, 2012 at 9:31 am

    I’m not going to waste what little brain power I have thinking up creative fake trades or signing when I have no evidence that the Yanks are gonna do anything

  11. Against All Odds November 18th, 2012 at 9:36 am

    20,000 fans in July is very light

  12. austinmac November 18th, 2012 at 9:37 am

    Blake,

    I have given up on considering how the team can improve. They have one plan. Sign guys to one year contracts and hope the old guys bounce back one more time.

    I believe they intend to play with a ten player roster next year. Why else not have players signed for next year. It is insanity in my mind.

    If they want to save money and lower payroll, they should have signed players at reasonable cost for the up owing years rather than allow everyone to reach free agency.

    This off season is a precursor for the years ahead.

  13. Against All Odds November 18th, 2012 at 9:37 am

    If its 20k that’s a doomsday scenario

  14. blake November 18th, 2012 at 9:40 am

    I also don’t believe this notion that the Yankees are planning to just dip under the tax in 2014 to then go out and sign Felix and Andrus and Verlander etc in 2015……no I think this shift is more permanent and it’s really been trending that way for a few years now…..even before the new CBA…..

    The Yankees continually push this “we should be able to win with a lower payroll ” notion ……I don’t think this is a one year thing…..I think it’s just what ownership wants either so their profit is higher or because they are wanting to limit risky additions to they can sell

  15. austinmac November 18th, 2012 at 9:42 am

    AAO,

    I see this year very ugly with Jeter’s injury, AROD in free fall, Ibanez in right, Cervelli behind the plate and Liriano and Pavano on the mound. What else can you get if your are “obsessed” with not entering into any contract of two years?

    Brian is telling Hal all is good. It is early yet. Wait until February when I work my magic on the 38 and up crowd.

  16. yankee21 November 18th, 2012 at 9:42 am

    The doomsday scenario is the Yankees continuing to spin they are a championship or bust team but not continue to invest accordingly in all parts of the organization. This is what has happened.

    I could see 20K people in the stands in July if the team is not infused with youth and impact players. People are sick and tired of seeing 37 year over the hill players all over the field.

  17. blake November 18th, 2012 at 9:43 am

    Mac,

    Things may change and they may prove me wrong (I hope) but right now it seems the plan is to let money expire to hope what they have in house is good enough to win until a bunch of prospects are ready……sounds a bit risky.

    If they are going to do that then Id much rather them trade Cano and Granderson for more prospects so that at least they have a higher likelyhood of having a few of them pan pan out.

    I could be dead wrong and I hope I am…..

  18. austinmac November 18th, 2012 at 9:45 am

    I would like to know the number of season tickets sold to the number sold by this time last year. It has to have declined.

  19. yankee21 November 18th, 2012 at 9:45 am

    If Hal was an owner who cared he would have hauled Brian Cashman into his office long ago and asked him where are my minor league players that are ready to compete at the big league level?

    Cashman does not have a leg to stand on as his MiL coaching and development efforts have yielded bad results.

    But Hal does not care so there is no accountability with Cashman and it seems like most parts of the organization.

  20. Madrugador November 18th, 2012 at 9:46 am

    Not sure about your profit theory Blake since there may be less profit to be had with fewer fans but the idea of limiting risky additons ahead of a sale may have some merit.

    I do think that the ownership looks around the league and wonders how teams with lesser payrolls can and do remain relevant and then believe the Yanks can operate that way as well. It certainly is not WGWD. We’ll see.

  21. blake November 18th, 2012 at 9:46 am

    I’ve talked a lot in recent years about how the Sox weren’t bad luck as many have suggested…..and that they have fallen off because of the risk they chose to carry on their roster….injury and age related risk.

    If the Yankees go into 2013 without some changes then they are doing so with a similar type risk all over their roster…..age related decline risk….injury risk is everywhere…..

    Everything could come up roses and they could make the playoffs again with no significant changes…..it could also go real bad real fast and they could finish in 4th place very quickly

  22. Against All Odds November 18th, 2012 at 9:47 am

    I agree I don’t see it as a one yr thing either. Hell when it first came out all we heard was 2014 but now its 14-16.

  23. jacksquat November 18th, 2012 at 9:47 am

    Andrus, Felix and Verlander are all on teams that can afford to extend them.

  24. blake November 18th, 2012 at 9:48 am

    “Not sure about your profit theory Blake since there may be less profit to be had with fewer fans but the idea of limiting risky additons ahead of a sale may have some merit.”

    I don’t have access to their books so its hard to say how much attencdance loss and YES ratings loss they can take without actually losing more money than they save by getting under the tax……but I’m sure they have a pretty good hold on that

  25. austinmac November 18th, 2012 at 9:50 am

    I have been predicting an ugly future simply based on what the team says. Payroll reduction is paramount. My forecast has been since last TD that they are less likely to spend in the forseeable less than virtually any team in baseball.

    I too wish I was wrong. I wish I would see one tiny hint I am wrong. None have been forthcoming.

    Decline in income that I foresee can have one of two results. They can realize their error or they can further reduce spending justifying it with declining income. Gee, I wonder which way they will go.

  26. blake November 18th, 2012 at 9:50 am

    “I do think that the ownership looks around the league and wonders how teams with lesser payrolls can and do remain relevant and then believe the Yanks can operate that way as well. It certainly is not WGWD. We’ll see.”

    They draft higher, they develop better, and they make smarter decisions…..

  27. jacksquat November 18th, 2012 at 9:52 am

    And Kershaw.

    The point is, you can’t count on free agents two years into the future, because they may not be free agents then. Like Yadier Molina and Miguel Montero.

  28. austinmac November 18th, 2012 at 9:52 am

    JS,

    None of those players will be free agents in 2014. Illitch is going to let Verlander leave? Good luck with that. He actually wants to win.

  29. Against All Odds November 18th, 2012 at 9:52 am

    austinmac November 18th, 2012 at 9:42 am

    AAO,

    I see this year very ugly with Jeter’s injury, AROD in free fall, Ibanez in right, Cervelli behind the plate and Liriano and Pavano on the mound. What else can you get if your are “obsessed” with not entering into any contract oftwoyears?

    Brian is telling Hal all is good. It is early yet. Wait until February when I work my magic on the 38 and upcrowd

    ——

    Yea the fact they won’t do two yr deals is a scary thing. Does that mean they wouldn’t even do 2 yrs 5 million?

  30. austinmac November 18th, 2012 at 9:53 am

    Blake,

    They won’t be drafting higher for long. Just imagine the 2014 roster. No, you better not.

  31. austinmac November 18th, 2012 at 9:55 am

    AAO,

    Sherman suggests they don’t want contracts into 2014. Cashman has said all deals must be made with 2014 in mind. It sure sounds that way to me. Of course, Soriano may be the exception because they will be having so many leads to hold on to.

  32. tucker November 18th, 2012 at 9:55 am

    My biggest worry is that Cashman tries to show how “smart” he is by making an overpay trade for a corner outfielder or starting pitcher (should Kuroda not resign). It’s almost a personal challenge for Cashman to prove he can field a competitive team with a lower payroll.

    Thing is, a GM should always advocate for a higher payroll. The GM represents the baseball interests of a franchise, and it is the GMs duty to push back against the financial interests of the owner.

    But there does not seem to be any of that necessary friction in the Yanks FO. Cash has rolled over like a puppy dog, allowing Hal to impose his financial will by lowering the payroll. Did Cashman give Hal a realistic assessment of how much the on-field product will suffer? Only when Hal sees lower revenue from ticket sales and YES ratings will he realize The flawed vision.

  33. blake November 18th, 2012 at 9:56 am

    “They won’t be drafting higher for long. Just imagine the 2014 roster. No, you better not.”

    That’s true…..maybe we will get better draft picks in the future !

  34. BIG AL November 18th, 2012 at 9:56 am

    I hate the Red Sox, but, I have to admire what they did to rid themselves of those terrible contracts they gave out.

    I admire A-Rod, but, it’s time for him and the Yankees to part ways. It was the FO that made a huge error in re-signing him when he opted out, that’s on the FO, not A-Rod.

    The fact remains, his contract is a major obstacle, along with that of Tex, that prevents the Yankees filling in their needs with top quality players.

    It’s time to do what is in the best interest of the team, bite the bullet, and rid the team of contracts that are killing them.

    In this regard, Cano has to be signed to a 5 year deal, MAX, more than that, he has to be traded.

  35. yankee21 November 18th, 2012 at 9:59 am

    tucker; good post, OTOH it is difficult for Cashman to argue successfully for a higher payroll when ownership itself willingly went along with the new CBA which essentially compromised away their team’s primary advantage; spending ability.

    That is why I say Hal and the Yankee ownership are frauds. It will only be time before the fan base turns on them and they will sell faster than they want.

  36. tucker November 18th, 2012 at 10:04 am

    Al, exactly. The Yanks lack bold action. If they were truly committed to lowering payroll, they should have planned for this. Sign Cespedes and trade Swisher last year. Trade Cano and Grandy this year.

    I think most Yanks could support a lower payroll approach if they saw the team take steps to get better. The risk is sustained mediocrity for several years. The core is too old. Free agency has dried up (Felix and Verlander available in 2014? Doubt it).

    Credits the Red Sox. They saw a problem and took bold action. Not the Yanks.

  37. Madrugador November 18th, 2012 at 10:05 am

    “They draft higher, they develop better, and they make smarter decisions:
    and they get younger to limit their injury risk and eliminate age related decline.

    Unfotunately, in order to draft higher and get into the Competitive Balance Draft, you have to get worse before you can get better. Parity stinks.

  38. BIG AL November 18th, 2012 at 10:05 am

    Open letter to Mark Cuban;

    Mark,
    Please make an offer to buy the Yankees, then use your money, and sports mind to build the Yankees team back up to be the best team in MLB, period.

    Yankees fans everywhere.

  39. BIG AL November 18th, 2012 at 10:06 am

    Later, got to run.

  40. austinmac November 18th, 2012 at 10:07 am

    I do not believe Cashman has explained the struggle ahead. To do so, he would have to admit his accountababilty. He has been in charge of rebuilding the farm. Great job. The low A teams are often good. All prospects are always a couple years away.

  41. blake November 18th, 2012 at 10:08 am

    Bud would never let Cuban in…..and apparently Bud is commish forever

  42. The Return of Stoneburner November 18th, 2012 at 10:09 am

    Naaah – i am not giving up on the Yanks and will continue to play fake GM:

    2013:

    C – Martin, Stewart

    Infielders – Teixeira, Cano, Jeter, ARod, Chavez, Lowrie

    Outfielders – Gardner, Granderson, McLouth, Hairston, Mesa

    Starters – C.C., Pettitte, Hughes, (Marcum/McCarthy/Saunders), Nova/Phelps

    Pen: Mo, Robertson, Joba, Logan, Rapada/Cabral, Eppley, Nova/Phelps

  43. austinmac November 18th, 2012 at 10:12 am

    The Yankees have drafted at the bottom for a long time. However. Many great players are always available late. It is up to the teams to identify them. Matt Moore, for example, was an eight round pick.

    They could have upped their international spending with the spending limits approaching. They did the opposite.

    The entire organization has been lowering costs and limiting opportunity for improvement.

  44. Against All Odds November 18th, 2012 at 10:13 am

    office long ago and asked him where are my minor league players that are ready to compete at the big league level?
    ————–

    Cash comes out every yr and does the same thing. We have an 18 yr old in A ball 20 teams asked about him but I’m not going to move him

  45. blake November 18th, 2012 at 10:14 am

    The Atros are asking for an over pay for Lowerie and that club would have a lot of injury and age risk…..

    Look the Yankees may be in a situation here where they know that the 2013 roster isn’t ideal but that they also just can’t do much about it…..they don’t want to sign Hamilton or Greinke because they don’t want to spend the money and they don’t have the prospects to swing the trades they need……

    This time next year those position players in A ball might either be close enough to help or close enough to bring what they need in a trade……

  46. joeman November 18th, 2012 at 10:17 am

    agree..if all possible clean the big $$$ players out, also see what can they get in return for Grandy..if Cano wants more than 5 years ( which he will ) see what he brings back….you know what blow the whole team up

  47. blake November 18th, 2012 at 10:17 am

    CB mentioned the other day that the Yanks could have drafted Nick Castellanos but didn’t because of his price tag…..they took Cito Culver instead 10 plus picks earlier.

  48. Against All Odds November 18th, 2012 at 10:19 am

    blake November 18th, 2012 at 10:08 am

    Bud would never let Cuban in…..and apparently Bud is commish forever

    ——–

    Yet the ownership in Boston was allowed to buy the team in a controversial way and of course we can’t forget about Loria and McCourt(sp)

  49. blake November 18th, 2012 at 10:20 am

    A year later the Yanks could have drafted a young left handed high pitcher that I have seen personally named Daniel Norris that fell in the draft because he wanted a big bonus……the Yanks passed and took Dante jr instead because they could sign him cheap….. The jays spent the money and signed him

  50. blake November 18th, 2012 at 10:21 am

    “Yet the ownership in Boston was allowed to buy the team in a controversial way and of course we can’t forget about Loria and McCourt(sp)”

    Buds buddies

  51. DONNYBROOK November 18th, 2012 at 10:21 am

    “Sportmanship Award”??? Melky was just guaranteed $16 Mill over the next 2 yrs, and a nebulous sportmanship award is heralded around here? As Leo The Lip said, “Nice guys finish last”. That includes the standings And the payout line.

  52. Against All Odds November 18th, 2012 at 10:21 am

    That Culver pick is such a reach and the rationale behind was dumb. “They thought the twins were going to pick him” smh its the Twins a team you have dominated since what 03. Let them have a ss that can’t hit

  53. blake November 18th, 2012 at 10:22 am

    My point is that the Yankees can lower the big league payroll…..but they are following themselves if they think they can slash the big league payroll, play by the rules both in the draft and internationally and still stay at the top long term on the field…..,they’d have to drastically prove their player development to pull that off……

  54. The Return of Stoneburner November 18th, 2012 at 10:23 am

    I am not complaining about the 2010 draft – Mason Williams and Tyler Austin were astute picks – everyone passes on certain talent – look at the Rays passing on Buster Posey for Beckham – - – -

  55. The Return of Stoneburner November 18th, 2012 at 10:24 am

    Lowrie would be a nice pickup to back up 3b and SS – switch hitter I believe – price would be competitive though with the Stros – Gonzales and Bartlettt are still out there via FA – Nunez is not the answer – - – -

  56. andrewmelillo November 18th, 2012 at 10:24 am

    If the marlins couldnt win with those guys what makes toronto a better team than the yanks

  57. Against All Odds November 18th, 2012 at 10:25 am

    I’ll give them a break on Dante Jr

  58. blake November 18th, 2012 at 10:25 am

    “I am not complaining about the 2010 draft – Mason Williams and Tyler Austin were astute picks”

    They have done a nice job in the later rounds….my point was about them avoiding talent because of price tag

  59. austinmac November 18th, 2012 at 10:25 am

    Blake,

    Let’s hope the positional prospects fair better than the pitching prospects. It is a long, long way from A ball to the majors. It will be painful, I bet, when the organizational minor league rankings come out. They can’t be ranked very highly when Adams, not in the top ten, is about the only player with a realistic shot at the majors in 2013.

  60. austinmac November 18th, 2012 at 10:29 am

    AAO,

    Little Dante was considered a reach when they drafted him. That seems to be the common thread since Cole didn’t sign– make sure the first round pick will sign at your money number.

    Cashman is deathly afraid to risk Hal’s money. He seems to be on a short leash in which he can’t waste money. Cole and Igawa have ruined him.

  61. austinmac November 18th, 2012 at 10:32 am

    Big prospect news with the sportsmanship nomination. Let’s hope we can win Mr. Congeniality next. Most punctual. Best dressed. Most likely to succeed outside of baseball. Come on team. They’re awards to win.

  62. Villa Nova-Ya November 18th, 2012 at 10:33 am

    pat -

    Per your post in the last thread – seems like resetting to a certain % allows them more flexibility in real costs? Maybe be able to sign 3 FAs instead of one or two for the same net cost as if they were paying top LT?

    (My opinion all along was the reset better positions the Yankees to allocate their money where they want it instead of to taxes, but I was assuming they’d go down as far as they could go first. Though many posts thinking that a positioning for a sale was a possibility didn’t and don’t seem too far-fetched.)

    Sherman’s been pretty on top of this. So, I guess it still comes down to waiting to see how it all plays out.

  63. DONNYBROOK November 18th, 2012 at 10:33 am

    Nunez was the Yankee offense in the ALCS, and dinged Verlander The Great. Nunez also had a Big Sept Hr the previous season vs Shields. Sure, he needs work on D, but that can be corrected. A young player that has Proven he can hit the AL’s best Chuckers, should Not be dismissed. Stick with The Kid, and walk away from Lowrie.

  64. blake November 18th, 2012 at 10:35 am

    Against All Odds says:
    November 18, 2012 at 10:25 am
    I’ll give them a break on Dante Jr

    Yea he may turn out ok….but the pick was panned by most at the time and they passed on more sure talents in Bell and Norris because they either didn’t want to pay the money or because the situation with Cole has scared them off picking anybody with sign ability concerns

  65. The Return of Stoneburner November 18th, 2012 at 10:36 am

    2014 as I see it right now:

    Teixeira 22.5
    ARod 27.5
    C.C. 24.4
    Jeter 14 (could be as much as 17 – but for now I am going with this number)
    insurance, pension, other admin costs – 11

    Total: 99.4

    Left to play with: (189-99.4) 89.6

    15 spots of guys going to the minors on the 40 man – $500,000 – 7.5

    82 million left for 25 man:

    Allocate to remaining starters: 39

    C 8
    2b 23
    RF min
    CF 4
    LF min
    DH 3

    Bench 6

    BC – min
    UI – 3
    UI – min
    UOF – 2

    Starters 21

    SP#2 – 12
    SP#3 – 8
    SP#4 – min
    SP#5 – min

    Pen 16

    Closer – 8
    RP#2 – min
    RP#3 – min
    RP#4 – min
    RP#5 – min
    RP#6 – 3
    RP#7 – 3

    Used: 82 million

  66. austinmac November 18th, 2012 at 10:41 am

    Ten minimum salaries on the 25 man roster? Come on prospects!

  67. DONNYBROOK November 18th, 2012 at 10:46 am

    TRADE Cano and you can up-grade at numerous positions that are earmarked “min”. Cano failed to dive for game deciding grounders, that were just outta his reach, and this happened numerous times. He also went belly-up in the Playoffs after Jeet went down. Cano is NO leader, and that kinda coin goes to a Leader. NO NO CANO.

  68. joeman November 18th, 2012 at 10:48 am

    DONNYBROOK November 18th, 2012 at 10:46 am
    TRADE Cano and you can up-grade at numerous positions that are earmarked “min”. Cano failed to dive for game deciding grounders, that were just outta his reach, and this happened numerous times. He also went belly-up in the Playoffs after Jeet went down. Cano is NO leader, and that kinda coin goes to a Leader. NO NO CANO.
    ———————————————————-
    agree put his name out there & see what can come back…..

  69. The Return of Stoneburner November 18th, 2012 at 10:49 am

    austinmac November 18th, 2012 at 10:41 am
    Ten minimum salaries on the 25 man roster? Come on prospects!

    *********

    Pre-arb guys – except Nova

    Phelps, Austin, Flores, Adams, Montgomery, Whitley, Eppley, Goody, Nova (above minimum – actually arbitration eligible so add him to 1 category), and then Cabral/Rapada/Tracy

    Add in a Marshall or Turley if they excel in AAA/AA this year – the two guys you are dreaming are on Flores and Austin – they are the key – the rest are potentially realistic and will be with the 2013 season one way or another possibly (except Goody – but he is already in High A Ball as a college closer from LA) – - – -
    So yeah – come on prospects – we are filling the pen, back end of the rotations, utility spots – and the one we are really dreaming on are RF and LF – got to take the risk though – - – -

  70. The Return of Stoneburner November 18th, 2012 at 10:51 am

    As for trading Cano – I have tried for a month to advance Cano for Ackley and one of their pitching prospects – this week being Paxton. Does Cano, Nunez, Marshall get you Ackley, Paxton, and Truinfel?

  71. Against All Odds November 18th, 2012 at 10:52 am

    @ Mac and.Blake true about Dante. Even though it was panned when he started off hot some of those same ppl said he’s not as bad as they thought. The problem was he fell off the map after that

  72. The Return of Stoneburner November 18th, 2012 at 10:53 am

    Yanks do have around 40 million to spend on one year contracts THIS offseason – they were willing to spend that much on QO to Swisher, Soriano, and Kuroda – but are there enough desperate players to spend that money on with make good deals – - – -

  73. austinmac November 18th, 2012 at 10:53 am

    Stoneburner,

    You’re plan has every prospect making it. That last happened . . . Well, never. I agree that is what would have to happen. That’s why I never have thought they could compete.

  74. The Return of Stoneburner November 18th, 2012 at 10:54 am

    Against All Odds November 18th, 2012 at 10:52 am
    @ Mac and.Blake true about Dante. Even though it was panned when he started off hot some of those same ppl said he’s not as bad as they thought. The problem was he fell off the map after that

    ******

    I don’t think Bichette jr. is entirely off the map – he supposedly had an encouraging instructional league in September – remember – where was Heathcott this time last year – - – -

  75. austinmac November 18th, 2012 at 10:55 am

    Again, players who will take one year contracts are either old, injured or otherwise not desirable. There will be plenty of them available.

  76. The Return of Stoneburner November 18th, 2012 at 10:58 am

    austinmac November 18th, 2012 at 10:53 am
    Stoneburner,

    You’re plan has every prospect making it. That last happened . . . Well, never. I agree that is what would have to happen. That’s why I never have thought they could compete.

    *******

    Again – you are only dreaming on the following: Austin and Flores

    Montgomery, Goody, and Whitley – filling up the remaining pen – is no different than what the Yankees have been doing with their pen – going cheap outside of the closer spot – so that is not a stretch.

    Asking David Adams to be a backup IF is not life altering.

    Nova and Phelps are already HERE.

    Backup catcher – is it that crazy to think of a Romine or Murphy (already in AA) backing up the starter – heck they could go Stewart again and they are still around the minimum or under 1 million

    Again – it is LF and RF – that is the risk – the other min/low slots are ones where the Yanks have already either gone the young route or cheap route – - – -

  77. The Return of Stoneburner November 18th, 2012 at 10:59 am

    austinmac November 18th, 2012 at 10:55 am
    Again, players who will take one year contracts are either old, injured or otherwise not desirable. There will be plenty of them available.

    *********

    Kuroda does not fit that bill. Pettitte on a year deal is ideal. Heck – even look at what the O’s got out of McLouth. We are not looking for one year deals this offseason to be corner stones – outside of Kuroda – - – - -

  78. yanks61 November 18th, 2012 at 11:03 am

    Personally, I would favor the Cano trade scenario if he won’t sign for max. five years. I’d also explore trades for Granderson and see what I could get.

    However, could it be that their idea is to go with what they have right now in 2013, plus whatever short term fill-in’s they can pick up without giving away the farm, and try to shoot for the PS one more time with the core still there. Then in 2014 let Cano and Granderson leave for nothing more than picks. That would leave the 2014 club with slim pickings and no chance for the PS, but perhaps only one year of a truly mediocre club. They might also start bringing some of those farm talents up for trials in the 2nd half of 2013.

    Then they could TRY to re-build for 2015 with whoever is ready from the farm, as well as whatever they still need by way of FA in the fall of 2014, from whatever may (or may not) be available.

    Of course, like everybody else, I have no idea whether they’re planning to start spending again after the 2014 season, or simply getting ready to sell the club at that point when salaries are maxed out at $189 mil. However, at least potentially, that would limit to only one year the certainty of a poor team.

  79. Tar November 18th, 2012 at 11:03 am

    This is what 189 is going to buy.

    Andy, Mo, Martin and Ichiro.

    Berkman DH -1b

    Gomes- 4th OF

    Prospects fill out any remaining spots

    Rotation CC, Andy, Hughes, Nova and Phelps

  80. austinmac November 18th, 2012 at 11:07 am

    Kuroda hasn’t agreed to come for one year. You are counting on 40% of the rotation to be minimum salary guys.

    This may well be where we are headed. I just think it would be a poor team.

  81. austinmac November 18th, 2012 at 11:09 am

    Tar, how do you feel about that team’s prospects?

  82. Tar November 18th, 2012 at 11:12 am

    MAc

    Slim to none. In May when they are out of it, Hopefully they can find someone who will over pay for Cano and Grandy.

    This gives the Front office a way to save face by saying “well we gave it a shot but things didn’t work out”.

  83. austinmac November 18th, 2012 at 11:19 am

    Tar,

    I agree with your assessment. I truly wish they would look to see what Granderson and Cano would bring. I see no other way the budget can remotely work. They have too few prospects. They have outfield guys two years away, very limited upside minor league starters and little in the infield. To compete in the future, they must add to this since money is no longer our advantage.

  84. blake November 18th, 2012 at 11:22 am

    If the Yankees aren’t going to commit to paying Cano longterm so that it doesn’t affect other moves when he declines then Id be open to them trading him…..

    I mentioned 4 or 5 teams the other day that could give enough back that Id do it…..but to be honest I don’t think there is any way it happens so I don’t spend a whole lot of time thinking about it…..

    They are either going to give him 200 million after 2013 or let him walk….I just don’t see anything SS realistically happening

  85. blake November 18th, 2012 at 11:26 am

    Anything else realistically happening *

  86. yanks61 November 18th, 2012 at 11:26 am

    “Slim to none. In May when they are out of it, Hopefully they can find someone who will over pay for Cano and Grandy.”

    Yep, Tar, that could be an alternative to what I was saying above. Instead of taking only the picks, if they have already crash landed by mid-season, they could trade Cano and Granderson at that point.

    The question will still remain as to whether or not they start the re-building process in 2014, knowing full well it will be a poor team, and then trying to adequately re-load after the 2014 season.

    Alternatively, they are just gearing up for a sale. It’s difficult to believe that they are totally blind to the realities that everybody sees here. They may be willfully letting the team go to hell with the overall intention of getting salary costs down as low as they can, but in spite of whatever inadequacies they may have previously demonstrated in certain areas, they are not down right dumb. I know that view is not the general consensus here, however that’s how I see it.

  87. blake November 18th, 2012 at 11:27 am

    @Joelsherman1: Story http://t.co/cru2MiSN I learned #Yankees r only offering Kuroda only 1 yr — will that be enough? Could Japan pulls actually help NYY?

  88. jacksquat November 18th, 2012 at 11:29 am

    If the Yankees wanted to get rid of Arod’s contract, they could. It would be extreme, but it could be done. You just offer CC and Cano to the Dodgers for them to take all of Arod’s contract, they will do it. And Arod and CC would wave their no trades to play for that juggernaut, in that media market, and much closer to CC’s home. The Yanks would then basically have no team, but they would have freed up a ton of payroll and could start from almost scratch. Tex’s contract is not good, but it’s nowhere near as bad as Arod’s.

  89. blake November 18th, 2012 at 11:32 am

    The Royals are listening to offers for Eric Hosmer, Mike Moustakas, Alex Gordon, Billy Butler, and even Wil Myers
    Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....YWsJRsl.99

  90. austinmac November 18th, 2012 at 11:32 am

    Yanks21,

    I think they thought if Kuroda and Pettitte return they could sign Martin on a reasonable deal,then add a RF cheaply and try to see if they could compete. If the pitchers don’t return, they are in big trouble. Liriano is my bet, along with an injury recovery guy.

    I do believe Cashman doesn’t want to admit his grand build from witha strategy has not worked. There are no replacements this year, at least as starting pitchers or starting positional players.

    Who ever wants to admit to there boss, one’s plan isn’t working?

  91. jacksquat November 18th, 2012 at 11:33 am

    @Joelsherman1: Story http://t.co/cru2MiSN I learned #Yankees r only offering Kuroda only 1 yr — will that be enough? Could Japan pulls actually help NYY?

    This makes no sense. A team offering him two years wouldn’t offer him one? You think the Dodgers care about their first round pick?

  92. blake November 18th, 2012 at 11:34 am

    I hope Cashman is talking to Dayton Moore….. But he’s probably spending most of his time with Raul’s agent

  93. yanks61 November 18th, 2012 at 11:35 am

    JS, I think you could be very right. But that would almost certainly mean that the team was going up for sale, wouldn’t it? Being that uncompetitive would mean losing lots of revenue in at least 2013 and 14, and possibly 16 if they have not re-built the team in a very expeditious way after the 2014 season.

  94. DONNYBROOK November 18th, 2012 at 11:35 am

    Pass onna multi-year deal with Martin. All you need behind the plate is a good glove, decent arm, and a guy that will situational hit. You do Not absolutely need Big offensive numbers outta your backstop. Just a guy that is willing\capable of hitting behind the runner, bunting, etc. I would even take the Angel backup Bobby Wilson, and Cervelli is OK in this area, though I am Not sure either could physically be a full-time player. Going Multi year with Martin would be a mistake, and monestarily hamstring the Yanks elsewhere down-the-road.

  95. yanks61 November 18th, 2012 at 11:39 am

    Being that uncompetitive would mean losing lots of revenue in at least 2013 and 14, and possibly 16 if they have not re-built the team in a very expeditious way after the 2014 season.

    Sorry, I meant 2013, 14 and 15 (and, yes, maybe beyond!)

  96. yanks61 November 18th, 2012 at 11:42 am

    austinmac November 18th, 2012 at 11:32 am
    Yanks21,

    I think they thought if Kuroda and Pettitte return they could sign Martin on a reasonable deal,then add a RF cheaply and try to see if they could compete. If the pitchers don’t return, they are in big trouble. Liriano is my bet, along with an injury recovery guy.

    ————————————————————–

    Hi Mac. Your’e addressing me I think, no? In any case, I quite agree about the pitching. Damn, but I wish there was a way to add at least one of either Grienke to shore up the staff or Hamilton for the OF and offense.

  97. jacksquat November 18th, 2012 at 11:43 am

    yanks61 November 18th, 2012 at 11:35 am
    JS, I think you could be very right. But that would almost certainly mean that the team was going up for sale, wouldn’t it? Being that uncompetitive would mean losing lots of revenue in at least 2013 and 14, and possibly 16 if they have not re-built the team in a very expeditious way after the 2014 season.

    Well, I’m not suggesting they do that and then do nothing. They wouldn’t be able to totally restock the team for 2013, you can’t replace Cano and CC at the drop of a hat, but there are players to sign. Do you see them doing well in 2013 anyway? Arod has the salary of an all-star and another good player, and he alone is barely the good player. If they want to get under 189 and still have a very good team every year, it’s important to not be overpaying someone by 20 mil (26 mil in the bonus years). It’s sort of similar to the Red Sox move, which you have to admit was a good move for them for the long run.

  98. DONNYBROOK November 18th, 2012 at 11:45 am

    You get right down to it, the Yankees rebuilt the team when they signed CC, AJ, and TEX. I doubt this “rebuild” woulda been made, had the Yanks known what the current CBA would look like. Point is, you can rebuild a team, the Yanks have done it previously, And won a World Championship as a result.

  99. blake November 18th, 2012 at 11:45 am

    I wish they could get Moustakis….that’s be nice

  100. yanks61 November 18th, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    J.S, OK, understood. I thought you meant blowing up the team completely and then slowly rebuilding. And I see what you mean, because it would allow them to sign some pretty decent players even in 2013, what with all the salary coming off with Arod, Cano and CC gone.

    —————————————————————

    Donnybrook, very good point at 11:45

  101. jacksquat November 18th, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    For example, they could turn right around and sign Greinke (if the Dodgers hadn’t already got him, maybe they wouldn’t if they had CC), and that’s not too much of a dropoff, he’s also 3 years younger. Arod + Cano is 42 mil AAV for 2013 (+6 mil for Arod reaching first bonus), and 50 mil AAV going forward from 2014. Could do a lot with that money.

  102. yanks61 November 18th, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    A last question before I shove off for the evening (afternoon for you folks.)

    Let’s suppose that the Yanks go into the sink in 2013, but DO intend to start trying to sign some valuable free agents after 2014 and rebuilding the club from within as well. I realize that it’s a no-no to talk about signing a particular FA. But would it be strategically unwise, as well as against the rules, for them to announce the fact that while they had to sacrifice 2013/14 seasons, they fully intend to do whatever it takes to get back into the mix after that? I mean that would at least give fans some hope, right!

  103. LGY November 18th, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    Going Multi year with Martin would be a mistake, and monestarily hamstring the Yanks elsewhere down-the-road

    ———

    Monestarily??

    Calling on Nick to jump in here

  104. Carlo November 18th, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    The Kuroda stuff is funny. Float that he may leave so the fans think we did something this offseason when in reality we brought the same not good enough team back less a few expensive pieces.

  105. The Return of Stoneburner November 18th, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    The Royals are listening to offers for Eric Hosmer, Mike Moustakas, Alex Gordon, Billy Butler, and even Wil Myers.
    Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#r2YGy75VogdLxQKU.99

    Wait – but I thought lohud told me that young position players do not go on the market – - – - -

  106. yanks61 November 18th, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    Well, unless he shows up in the Nick of time, I would just say that Monk Martin could continue tweeting from any monastery in which he chose, as well as pray for a better hitting approach. And of course many here would love to see him cloistered away. In fact The Cloisters is not that far from Yankee Stadium, so the Yanks could get him back lickity-split if he improves his communication and gets on better terms with whatever powers there may be.

  107. BoJo November 18th, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    It has been a tough season following the Yankees for me…I diodn’t think the Yankees would win it all since (in my mind) they don’t have play-off caliber clutch hitters. Thus I was hopeful that they would sign Melky this off-season. Disappointed they didn’t.

    But I could live with putting Nunez in RF with Ichie as platoon…let the kid fill out and see what he can do offensively.

    I also don’t see the Yankees winning WS again until they let Joba start. I have believed for some time that he is the arm they can build the rotation around…and now he is strong enough to take a chance on. His arm and shoulder should be very strong and his body has matured past the age of concern about total innings.

    I hope he finally gets the chance if Kudie goes west.

  108. LGY November 18th, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    Wait – but I thought lohud told me that young position players do not go on the market – – – – -

    ———

    If the argument was young position players are never rumored to be available, you’d be the clear winner in this debate right now.

  109. LGY November 18th, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    It’s winter in MLB and a team is willing to listen on half it’s team. Shocking.

  110. blake November 18th, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    “Wait – but I thought lohud told me that young position players do not go on the market – – – – -”

    1) none of them have actually been traded
    2) somewhat of a special case where the Royals have tons of hitters and zero pitching

    Also nobody ever said that young position players never get traded…..only that’s it’s much less often than it used to be

  111. tucker November 18th, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    Another thing to consider when u are building your projected rosters for 2014. The 189 applies to everyone on the 40-man roster as well as some incidental expenses. And as J-Face pointed out, every minor leaguer that gets called up is paid the prorated MLB minimum.

    The Yanks typically use, what, 40-plus players in a given year? If those include minor leaguers (typically does due to injuries, etc.), the team will spend millions more on these call-ups alone. (Jerkface pointed this out yesterday.)

  112. Against All Odds November 18th, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    Guys don’t worry the Yankees are still having conversations with Scott Hairston . I can smell a WS championship

  113. blake November 18th, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    @JimBowdenESPNxm: Dayton Moore is not playing….he is prepared to trade one of his top young position players for a top of the rotation starter

  114. Jerkface November 18th, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    Its also not what anyone said. You can get a lawrie before they are majorb leaguetested. Myers has never played in the mlb, moustakas and hosmer were terrible last year. Butler and gordon have considerable contracts. It is not a team trading mike trout or a young hitter coming off 2 good full years like a team trading gio or latos.

  115. Against All Odds November 18th, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    We have no top of the rotation starter to trade. Unless ppl want to move CC

  116. blake November 18th, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    Of the Royals group Moustakis and myers interest me the most….Moustakis because he plays 3B and has upside and Myers because of the bat and years of control….. Probably the hardest two to acquire as well though…..Gordon probably is the surest bet to perform but he’s also not exactly cheap either and butler has no position

  117. austinmac November 18th, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    The Royals are saying they will trade for one of the Rays’ starters. Nova/Phelps/Hughes aren’t enough to do it, I suspect, even if they weren’t our 2-4 starters at the moment.

  118. jacksquat November 18th, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    Yanks don’t have stuff KC wants. Probably TB, or there is one other team I can’t remember atm that might trade pitching.

  119. austinmac November 18th, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    RAB says the Yankees are still talking with Hairston. He had a career year last year, but is truly a 4th outfielder. Sounds like a perfect starter for us, but wait. He wants two years. Keep going down the list Brian.

  120. austinmac November 18th, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    Blake,

    I see you are wasting brain cells again. :) It is hard to accept it. It is for me.

  121. Shame Spencer November 18th, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    I think I’ll be spending a lot of time singing Leonard Cohen’s Hallelujah.

  122. Shame Spencer November 18th, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    That’s how this season’s gonna go for me.

  123. Nick in SF November 18th, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    Sad thoughts. :sad:

  124. J. Alfred Prufrock November 18th, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    austinmac November 18th, 2012 at 9:42 am

    …..
    Brian is telling Hal all is good. It is early yet. Wait until February when I work my magic on the 38 and up crowd.
    ////

    Priceless!

  125. The Return of Stoneburner November 18th, 2012 at 2:55 pm

    Brian is telling Hal all is good. It is early yet. Wait until February when I work my magic on the 38 and up crowd.

    *******

    Eactly – that is where Pettitte, Mo, and Kuroda reside – in that crowd – - – -

  126. theREALkevin November 18th, 2012 at 3:32 pm

    Ackley sucks. Absolutely no way I would want him as a centerpiece in a trade of Cano.

  127. Tar November 18th, 2012 at 4:22 pm

    Ackley doesn’t suck. He barely has year and a half in the league. He’s a good young player that you need to show patience with.

    I can understand not wanting him to be a centerpiece though.

    Wow neither the Browns or Dallas want to win this game.

  128. tucker November 18th, 2012 at 4:40 pm

    Ackley is going to be a nice player. Not quite Chase Utley, but not bad either.

    If the Yanks could get Ackley with all his years of control for one year of Cano, the Yanks would have to think long and hard about that.


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